February 7, 2025 • 26 mins
On Ferrari Friday's, William Ross from the Exotic Car Marketplace will be discussing all things Ferrari and interviewing people that live and breathe the Ferrari brand. Topics range from road cars to racing; drivers to owners, as well as auctions, private sales and trends in the collector market.
In this episode William focuses on notable sales and no-sales from the RM/Sothebys auction in Paris, highlighting specific cars such as the 1964 Ferrari 250 LM, a Ferrari 599 GTO, and others. He provides insider opinions and market insights on why certain bids succeeded or failed, discussing the intricacies of car auctions, market fluctuations, and the collector car market. He emphasizes the importance of passion over profitability in car collecting and shares his views on the potential market shifts.
===== (Oo---x---oO) =====
00:00 Welcome to the Ferrari Marketplace Podcast
01:08 RM Sotheby's Auction Highlights
02:16 Ferrari Memorabilia and Collectibles
06:23 Ferrari 599 GTO and Market Trends
09:28 Ferrari 360 Challenge and 512 M
18:54 The Grand Finale: 1964 Ferrari 250 LM
24:17 Market Reflections and Upcoming Auctions
====================The Motoring Podcast Network : Years of racing, wrenching and Motorsports experience brings together a top notch collection of knowledge, stories and information. #everyonehasastory #gtmbreakfix - motoringpodcast.net
- More Information: https://www.motoringpodcast.net/
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Copyright William Ross, Exotic Car Marketplace a division of Sixty5 Motorsports. This episode is part of our Motoring Podcast Network and has been republished with permission.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
As part of Ferrari Fridays, WilliamRoss from the Exotic Car Marketplace
will be discussing all things Ferrariand interviewing people that live
and breathe the Ferrari brand.
Topics range from road cars toracing, drivers to owners, as well
as auctions, private sales, andtrends in the collector market.
(00:28):
Welcome back to the Ferrari Marketplacepodcast presented by exoticcarmarketplace.
com.
For everything exotic cars fromFerrari and Porsche to Lamborghini
and Koenigsegg, the Motoring PodcastNetwork, check out the family of
automotive podcasts at motoringpodcast.
net.
If you're into anything withwheels and a motor, this is
the site for you to check out.
And to Slot Mods, for the coolest slot cartracks in the world, check out slotmods.
(00:52):
com and let your imaginations run wild.
And finally, Grand Touring Motorsports,covering all aspects of auto
racing, and be sure to check outthe monthly e sign at gtmotorsports.
org.
All links for these sitesare up in the description.
And now, I'm your host, William Ross.
And this week's topic, we are talkingabout the RM Sotheby's auction in Paris,
(01:13):
where there's some heavy hitting cars thatwent across the block, as we all know,
the one Mercedes went earlier in the week.
Now, but we're going to discuss someof these other ones, but the big
one was the 1965 Ferrari 250 LM.
I'm sorry, the 1964 Ferrari250 LM that won the 1965.
Overall, with Yoke andRint and Mast and Gregory.
(01:38):
There was a lot of other stuffin there that was Ferrari
related that wasn't sold on this.
So there was some interesting stuff.
Some stuff sold, some stuffdid not, some stuff went cheap.
You know, there's some, uh, interestingI guess you would say trinkets that
went by, you know, stuff's not cheap.
There was a nardy steeringwheel that did not sell.
I didn't catch what thehigh bid was on that.
(01:59):
Cause I jumped in a little bitlate, but you know, they had an S
between the two to 4, 000 euros.
So I would say it was bid under2, 000 cause it didn't sell.
So.
I don't know.
I think that's right in the rangeof about 2, 500 bucks for that.
But I guess no one needed a new nardysteering wheel for their Ferrari.
Then there was another one that was a F300 formula one engine signed by Michael
(02:21):
Schumacher that went for 48, 000 euros.
That's kind of interesting.
I mean.
I don't know, I guess you're justgoing to display that thing because
it's not like it's going to be ableto run again or anything like that.
Then there was a GillesVilleneuve Cavalino Trophy
that sold for 12, 000 Euros.
Obviously the name tied to that is goingto push it up there in value wise, but
(02:43):
that's a neat little trinket for somebody.
That's pretty cool.
That's, you know, that's for theperson that's got everything Ferrari.
Then they had an F40 luggageset that was done up by Chidoni,
who, uh, if I'm not pronouncingthat correctly, I apologize, but.
43, 200 euros for some luggage.
So it was basically three pieces, hangers,some, and the bags for me like that.
(03:05):
But I mean, obviously they'renot making them anymore.
So whoever got their hands onthat was wanting to complete the,
what they have for their F 40.
So, cause obviously the more stuffyou have for it, the better and
the higher it's going to sell.
Now this is because right afterthat was a toolkit for an F 40.
So my guess.
Same owner had that and just didn't botherto include it with the sale of his F40.
(03:27):
He decided to hold on to it.
I cannot stand that.
When people have the stuff thatgoes with the car, that when it
left the factory had all the littleaccoutrements, and then they don't send
it along its way when they sell it.
They keep it.
And then it's just likelittle piecemeal things.
It's just wrong.
It's rude.
It's just Just selleverything that came with it.
The big one that's always annoys me isthe f50 I don't know if anyone knows
(03:51):
or is aware of it The fact is but f50actually came with your own pair of
racing shoes was one of the thingsthat came with it And that's a rare
oddity to have those included withthe car So then there were a couple
of race suits from Michael Schumacher.
The first one went for 6, 000 It's62, 400, but that was from 2003, but
then the one that was just a yearold or 2002 went for 48, 000 euros.
(04:14):
So, not signed by him, anything like that,so, but it was one of his race suits.
I guess that'd be something coolto frame up, put on your wall, you
know, put in a nice glass case,do something really nice to it.
Cause I doubt you'd fit into it,but unless you're a tiny person,
but I don't know, would you wear it?
I mean.
Me, I'd probably wear it if I couldfit in it, but I doubt it highly.
Now the next one that came up thatdid not sell though was just an engine
(04:36):
from a 512 BB LM. Unbelievable engine.
I was a little surprised this didn'tsell because you can kind of put
this thing in quite a few things.
And there was actually a actual 512BB LM that went later in the auction.
So again, why they didn'tsell this as a pair?
Hey, you got, you know, send a Spareengine along with your new 512 BBLM.
(04:57):
I don't know.
Again, some of thisstuff is just nonsense.
And it just irritates thehell out of me doing it.
But, that would have been a nice piece.
I don't know what it got put up to.
Because again, this is aboutwhere I jumped in at here.
Few vehicles after that.
Few lots, I guess you could say.
I came in because I wasa little bit sidetracked.
So, I came in with right about a 1972Ferrari Dino 246 GT by Scaglietti.
(05:21):
Yeah.
So for 342, 500 euros, that'sactually pretty good right
there on the money for that car.
Now, these things have been gainingvalue, getting a lot of traction.
People have been kind of overlookingthe fact that, you know, originally
there's, they weren't called Ferraris.
It was, you know, you know, just theDino, you know, it was assembled by Fiat.
It had a Ferrari engine,but everything else.
(05:43):
But in subsequent years, peoplekind of, I guess, turned the tide
and said, no, that's a Ferrari.
And a lot of people, Remove the Dinobadge and put a Ferrari badge on there.
They're gorgeous, gorgeous cars, small.
I don't fit in it.
So, I mean, I could fit init, but just not comfortably.
Beautiful car, but that was aboutright where it is on the money.
Those things are getting really,really popular out in the marketplace.
(06:06):
I'm not quite sure why.
I mean, it's not like it's got tonsof horsepower, but, you know, fun
little car, light, toss it around.
It's like a little go kart, soyou can have some fun with it.
Little bit fragile, but, you know,hey, it's one of those things to
enjoy and just have some fun with it.
You know, it's like, why not?
You got the money, spend it.
Ciao!
The next item that came up thatwas a Ferrari was a 599 GTO.
(06:30):
Now there was a lot of, I don'twant to say pushback, but there
was a lot of scuttlebutt whenthey came out with the 599 GTO.
Because people thought, you know,that moniker Only gets attached to
very special Ferraris and some Chevys.
But anyways, so there was a lot of pushbecause it's like, Oh, it's not special.
If they really didn't do enoughfor it to be considered a GTO and
(06:53):
you know, putting that tag to it,was it a money grab by Ferrari?
Possibly, but.
Again, these are jumping up in price, too,and this thing sold for 815, 000 Euros.
Now, these numbers are allin, so this is including buyer
fees and everything like that.
I think RM's at, like, 12 percent thefirst 100, 000, then, uh, 5 percent
on the balance, something like that.
(07:15):
Getting up there, so, if youwant to do the math, have at it.
These things have been gaining value and599s have been getting a lot of traction.
Awesome car, absolutely awesome car.
That's one of the onesthat everyone's buying.
Because you can get them for 150,000, 140, 000 with low mileage,
great services, right like that,and just do a manual swap on it.
There is only 30 worldwide, 20 forthe U. S., in a manual, factory manual
(07:39):
599 GT, uh, 599 GTP, I should say.
The GTO, so they started to come outwith other variants and everything
like that, but you know, fantastic car.
Oh, sounds beautiful.
Fantastic car.
So, that was, you know, probably aboutright where the money's at on those.
Um, that wasn't too shocking.
It's not too difficult to find thoseout in the marketplace, though.
(08:00):
So, you know, it's alwayskind of interesting when these
people, uh, you know, send thiskind of stuff to the auction.
Because the one thing I always kindof tell people in regards to, you
know, sending a car to auction,you know, and then especially if it
doesn't sell, you kind of tainted it.
Because now it's like, well, that'swhat people are willing to pay for it.
Now, granted, it all dependson who is in the room, who is
(08:21):
on the phone, who is following.
Yeah, there's some variables, butthat's all public knowledge now.
So everyone's going to think,no, it's only worth that.
So you kind of screw thepooch when you do that.
If it doesn't sell, um, that's whyI kind of, a lot of people, well,
if you're going to do it, do noreserve, but you know, that's a big
old gamble on the other side of it.
People say, well, people know we'llsell them when you do a no reserve.
(08:43):
So it has a tendency to havea little more panache to it.
So it gets a little more value to it.
So it all depends what your mindsetis and you know, how much the
auction house talks you into it andhow much they try and butter it up.
Cause I, some of these, you know, theauction house will bid themselves,
not so much a no reserves, but youknow, they're, they do all these
(09:04):
backdoor things and stuff like that.
You know, that's one thing whyI really am not a fan of taking
a car to an auction house.
They're not no different from anyother auction that's selling off of
farm equipment from a farmer thatwent bust or something like that.
You know, I mean, it's just, I don't know.
I'm just not a fan.
There's some cool stuff to him,but Anyways, that's my opinion.
(09:25):
Now, the next one came up and thiswas a heck of a deal, I thought.
It was a 2004 Ferrari360 Challenge race car.
Now, that one went, soldall in for 109, 250 euros.
I thought that was a heck of a deal.
Now, if you look at the ChallengeStradale's, you know, obviously it's a
road legal version of that car, basically.
(09:46):
Not as hardcore, uh, notas stripped out, but.
I don't think it would take all thatmuch to take that challenge car and
turn it in and make it street legal.
If you really wanted to.
Now it's got an F1 transmission in it.
It's a little bit quicker, butthat's kind of, it's very raw.
Fantastic car, but for someone that wantsto go racing, do track days, something
(10:07):
like that, do some historic stuff.
That is a fantastic car to go do it.
It's very, very wellmannered, very neutral.
fantastic car.
Um, you know, not that difficultto work on, still get spares
for everything like that.
So you're not really left in a lurch.
So that was a very, very good buy.
Now, the next one we're goingto talk about was one of the big
(10:29):
hitters, the 1970 Ferrari 512 M,one of the only ones in yellow.
Now this thing is stunningand it sounds fantastic.
That got bid.
up to a little over 7 million andthey had the low estimate of nine.
So they were saying nineto 12 million euros.
(10:52):
So it went just a little bit over seven.
So it was pretty dang low in regardsto Where it was going to go, um, which
was very surprising to me, and it wasvery surprising to a lot of people in
the room, online, everything like that.
I had a conversation with someoneafter that thing did not sell,
(11:12):
and everyone was really shockedthat that thing didn't sell.
I mean, it's got people talking about,okay, Seinfeld sent his 917 through.
Uh, in Kissimmee, and it didn't sell 25million, you know, was that just a ploy?
Was that just a play?
Was that just something by DanaMecham and Jerry and stuff?
Hey, Dana stroked him a check forhalf a mil or something like that.
(11:35):
You know, hey, bring it down, we'llpay for everything, and we just
won't sell it, blah, blah, blah.
You know, we just want publicity,something along those lines, which,
hey, if that's the case, that's genius.
But, it kind of sours things, becausepeople are like Wait a minute, he just
bought that not, well, a few years agofor 13, 000, 000 or something like that.
Again, though, it's notlike he needs the money.
But anyways, so this thing basicallygot bid up to roughly just under
(12:00):
2, 000, 000 below its low estimate.
I mean, that's significant fora car like that with its race
history, everything like that.
So, I mean, was the owner greedy?
Thinking it was worth more?
Was the auction housewrong with the value?
And placing that, but Imean, that's significant.
1. 7 million euros below the low estimate.
I don't know.
(12:20):
And dot maybe, well, Hey, after thesale, do something, you know, uh, close
it with somebody after the sale to kindof negotiate, but that's a big jump.
1. 7 million is quite a bit to try andclose the gap and make people happy.
And my guess is the owner of that car waslike, I'm not budging from my low estimate
of 9 million or something like that.
(12:41):
And again, who knows what the reserve was?
I mean, that's an unknown number.
I mean, could it have been like 8.
5, maybe something along those lines?
8. 2 or 8 million, maybe?
I don't know.
It'd be interesting to find out,but the thing is still available.
It's still, you know, good.
Still available for sale through RM.
Curious to see in a weekor so here, I'll find out.
I'll let everybody know what they'retrying to get out of that car.
(13:03):
But I mean, that's a stunning car.
I mean, unbelievable race history.
It's yellow.
It's not red.
You know, I mean, just fantastic car.
Again, what's going on with racecars in this market right now?
They're not selling.
It's a little strange.
Now, the next Ferrari that cameup was a few lots after that.
And again, I felt thiswas a heck of a deal.
(13:25):
Now I don't know if it hadit's um, battery redone.
Cause I know after a certainamount of Ferrari did a recall or
something like that and they swappedthe battery out for free I think.
Or it was like a hundredgrand, I don't know.
But after a certain point thebatteries on those things needed
to be changed no matter what.
But this thing sold at 3.
55
(13:46):
million euros.
And it's yellow.
So I think, you know,that gives it some value.
I thought this was a heck of a buy.
In my opinion, wafts are moreup in the 4 million range, 4.
Three maybe, something like that,depending on mileage, service
history, and that kind of stuff.
Or if it's a U. S. version.
Again, I think someonegot a heck of a deal.
(14:07):
They bought it at the low endof the market, that's for sure.
So someone's going to have a, a LaF,that's a LaF, no, a LaF Ferrari.
For a heck of a deal, go outand enjoy it and have some fun.
I've never had the opportunityto drive one or sit in one.
But from my understanding,they're fantastic cars to drive.
Very easy.
I mean, just incredible stuff.
So, again, someone got themselvesa heck of a deal on that car.
(14:31):
So, have fun and enjoy.
Now, the next one that popped upwas right after the LaFerrari.
Was a 1981 Ferrari 512 BBLM.
Now this is the one where that enginethat did not sell before should have
went with this or should be stuck withthis instead of selling them separate.
Now, that one got bid up to 1.
(14:53):
6. Low estimate.
Two million euros.
Are you far off?
Yes or no.
I mean, obviously 400, 000doesn't seem, is a lot, but you
know, you start talking to it.
So I was surprised I didn't find ahappy medium with someone in the room
or on the phone with that car andmove it along and find a new owner.
It wasn't that big of a gap.
(15:14):
Unless, again, unless the owner wassticking to their guns and said nope,
this is what I want, this is whatI'm sticking to, I ain't budging.
I don't know, but it'sstill available for sale.
Great for historics, everything like that.
You know, it's on that cusp of a lotmore things becoming eligible, like, you
know, year wise, everything like that.
But, that would be such a fun track car.
It's a very unique car, especially thebodywork's unbelievable on that car.
(15:38):
It is so, I don't want to sayaerodynamic, but just swoopy.
It's a great looking car.
I think that's my opinion.
But again, it did not selland race car street car.
I mean, way below estimate.
I mean, unbelievable.
The next one that cameacross that did not sell.
(15:59):
was a 1950 51 Ferrari 212 225export by body by Vignale.
They were asking, the lowestimate was around 2.
5 million euros.
It got bid to 1.
9. Not that far off, butnow you're marketing.
Who's going to want to buythat car shrinks a bit.
(16:20):
I would think possibly that wouldbe, you know, millimillion eligible.
Obviously go to myself that, I mean,it would be eligible for a majority
of the events around the world.
I'm surprised, again, they didn'tfind a happy medium between someone
in the room or on the phone tohave someone take this thing home.
It's, that one was a little bafflingitself, so I'm not quite sure why that one
(16:42):
didn't move along to a new home either.
But again, it was just,it's a, it's a weird market.
Weird things going on stuff thatshould sells not selling stuff that
you sells you're like jeez for thatmuch again I don't know next up.
It was right after the 212 was a2005 Ferrari Super Amaro stunning
stunning car Fantastic car again,though, but it was kind of weird.
(17:06):
It got bid up to 550, 000 eurosThe low estimate was 650, 000.
Meet in the middle.
I mean, 50, 000 to you, 50, 000 to me.
Come on.
Find that happy medium.
I am surprised that did not find a home.
Because one rarity on that car,first of all, you know, is one of
(17:27):
the things, I am just amazed that it,uh, didn't, especially the fact Five.
It's a manual 550 super.
I mean, it's a manual.
I mean, great color combination.
Silver.
The red.
How could that not find a home?
And how could they not find a medium?
I mean, someone step up.
This thing is stunning.
I just, I don't know.
That one was a baffling one.
(17:49):
How it did not sell again.
That was a head scratcher on thatone because it's a stunning car.
Manual transmission.
Weird.
You know, being based on the 575.
Five.
how few actual manual just base 575swere built then you got the super america
based on that it's a 5 7 and i'm tryingto remember top of my head i think it was
(18:14):
just around 43 of them were all producedwith the manual transmission so i mean
that is a rare rare bird And I don't thinkit would take much to get that, you know,
to import it in here to the United States,kind of federalized somehow, some way.
Whether there's a will, there's a way.
But again, I don't know,man, that was just odd.
I figured that was a slam dunk.
And it stalled at 550, 000 Euros.
(18:37):
When you got standard, a manual575 going for 350, 300, 350
maybe range, maybe a little more.
And then you got the rarity of this.
I, again, I don't know.
That was a big head scratcher.
Now on to the granddaddy of thewhole day, I guess you could say,
(18:58):
or the two days of this auction.
The 1964 Ferrari 250 LM. The1965 Le Mans winner by Masten,
Gregory, and Jochen Ritt.
That is a great story on that because,you know, that's one of those deals where
the moon and the stars and everythingaligned Didn't really even want to race.
They didn't think there's no way thiscar is gonna make it So they beat the
(19:20):
shit out of it in the beginning justpounding and pounding and pounding
it and it just wouldn't break Theyactually had to go hunt down Cause he
was basically getting, I think likehalfway gone track, something like that.
He like disappeared cause he'slike, Oh, it's not going to last.
And Madison Gregory didnot like racing at night.
(19:40):
He couldn't see all that well.
It got to the point where theyhad to go try and find Yoko.
And Madison Gregory camein to do a driver change.
They couldn't find Yoko,so he had to go back out.
I think it was for like another threeor four laps before they finally
got Yoken, found him, brought himback to the track, and got him in.
He's like, oh geez, okay.
And so that point on, a lot of the leadingcars were dropping out, the ones that
(20:02):
were the favorites, and lo and behold.
These guys were leading, like I said,you know, it's one of those things where,
yeah, skill, everything like that, but alot of luck plays into that, especially
back then when a lot of mechanicalfailures were happening, because those
cars weren't designed like they aretoday to be like just brick shithouses.
Back then, yeah, they werefragile pieces of machinery.
(20:23):
For them to last 24 hours and then to goballs out like they were doing, normally
it was, those races back then, it was,okay, set a pace, we need to get to the
last few hours, once we get to the lastfew hours, depending on where we're at,
Then we'll just start hammering out.
But these day and age,it's a sprint from get go.
From the drop of the green flagto the checkered flag waves.
(20:43):
You know, they're just going balls outbecause those things are bulletproof.
Back then it wasn't.
But absolutely stunning car.
I've seen this carseveral times in person.
You don't realize how small that car is.
It is tiny.
You know, and the V12 in it.
I'm sorry, the 12 cylinder in it.
It is, um, the pistonsare tiny, it was at a 1.
5, I think it is, ifmemory serves me correctly.
(21:07):
So I mean, it's not a big motor, itsounds glorious, that's for sure.
I mean, it's just anabsolutely stunning car.
Now here's the thing, this was one ofthe ones that was being auctioned off
by our own RM Sotheby's on behalf ofthe Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum.
Because they're, they shut down becausethey're doing massive expansion and
(21:28):
everything like that on the museum.
Now, here's the thing that people,you know, they're thinking, Oh God,
they're going to get all this moneyand they're going to do this massive
renovation and stuff like that.
All the money and proceeds generatedfrom the sale of all the cars that
they put up for auction cannot gotowards the expansion and renovations.
All that money can go towardsfuture purchases of vehicles
(21:49):
and set up an endowment.
To operate and run the museum.
It cannot go towards anyconstruction on that.
So that's a whole separatefundraising effort by the
Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum.
And you know, oddly enough, Idon't know if people know this,
but Penske bought IMS and all that.
The museum wasn't part of that.
So the museum is actuallya whole separate entity.
But anyway, all this money canonly go towards buying new cars
(22:10):
and new inventory and stuff to putout there, which is interesting.
So that sold, all in, fees andeverything, for 34 million eight
hundred eighty thousand euros.
They had it at, how wasit, 25, 000 or more.
So they really didn't evengo with the high part.
So, being a Le Mans winning caradds a ton of value to this car.
Especially being the last Enzoera Ferrari to win Le Mans, really
(22:35):
kind of put an emphasis on it.
You know, I was talking with someoneabout this a couple days ago, and my
guess, to compare it to a standard,I say standard, but you know, one
with not much race history or, youknow, especially this pedigree.
My guess, this added 30%, 35percent to the value of the car.
I know of a couple 250LMs thatare out there that are available.
(22:58):
Uh, some really good ones too for,you're in the mid 20 millions range.
So, you know what, so you're up abovethat by another, you know, 10 million.
I, I thought it was well sold.
I mean, great price.
But where it should have been, I hopethe owner takes it out and shows it
and runs it and drives it doesn'tjust get, you know, put away and no
one gets to see it again because themuseum took this car to a lot of places.
(23:22):
I always saw it up to the M one concourse.
They always brought it out.
But I, you know, I saw itAmelia stuff like that.
So I mean, they really got this car outand showcase showcase it to everyone.
Everyone got to see it.
Not say touch it and feel it, butyou'll get to hear it run when
they're moving or anything like that.
So that was really cool.
So I'm hoping that happenswith the new owner.
So anyways, that was probablythe only one that wasn't shocked.
(23:45):
Well, besides that Dino, fantastic,fantastic buy for this person,
such an unbelievable car.
The museums own this thing since71, 72, something like that.
So they've owned it forever.
And for this thing to finally come up andgo into private hands is unbelievable.
I, if I was a museum, I don'tknow if I would have sold it.
(24:05):
I mean, that's just, it'ssuch a, such a special car.
Cause again, it could be ondisplay so everyone can see it.
You can do stuff, so it all dependson what the new owner is going to do.
We shall see!
So who knows, but all in all, likeI said, a lot, a lot of surprises.
Cause of these no sales, and being a nosale like way under the low estimate.
(24:26):
I think we're seeing a bit ofa shift in the market here,
what's going on in regards to carprices, uh, collector car prices.
People not thinking, you know,thinking they're going to still
get the same kind of money theywere getting a couple years ago.
Has stuff dropped off?
Is there a big switch?
I don't know.
I mean, you always haveadjustments here and there.
And then what happens is all ofa sudden stuff becomes a bargain.
(24:48):
People start jumping on stuff andbuying it and prices go back up.
So you're always going to have up anddowns in the collective car market.
And again, my adage is, look, ifyou're in, if you're buying this car
solely to try and make money on it.
You're not buying itfor the right reasons.
Now, if you have plenty of money whereit doesn't matter, but Hey, I'm going to
take a swing at this buy and hopefullysee where it gets to in five, 10 years.
Okay.
Have at it, but that's just me, butI'm more about passion of the car.
(25:11):
Not so much.
Hey, collectability wise in regardsto, you know, numbers and, Oh, I'm
going to double my money in 10 years.
If that happens.
That's just a bonus.
All in all some interesting stuff.
So we have some new otherauctions come up here soon.
That's got some big stuff in it.
You know, obviously Amelia's coming up.
Moda is going to be coming up.
So they have some great thingscoming across the block.
(25:32):
We'll see where things go.
One auction really doesn't kind ofdictate the market, but there's a
lot of similar cars going across theblock at those next two big events.
So it's going to be interesting tosee where things settle and see if
we got some adjustments going on.
Appreciate you guys listening.
Stay tuned.
Great stuff coming next week.
Appreciate it guys.
(25:55):
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As part of Ferrari Fridays, WilliamRoss from the Exotic Car Marketplace
will be discussing all things Ferrariand interviewing people that live
and breathe the Ferrari brand.
Topics range from road cars toracing, drivers to owners, as well
as auctions, private sales, andtrends in the collector market.
(00:28):
Welcome back to the Ferrari Marketplacepodcast presented by exoticcarmarketplace.
com.
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(00:52):
com and let your imaginations run wild.
And finally, Grand Touring Motorsports,covering all aspects of auto
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All links for these sitesare up in the description.
And now, I'm your host, William Ross.
And this week's topic, we are talkingabout the RM Sotheby's auction in Paris,
(01:13):
where there's some heavy hitting cars thatwent across the block, as we all know,
the one Mercedes went earlier in the week.
Now, but we're going to discuss someof these other ones, but the big
one was the 1965 Ferrari 250 LM.
I'm sorry, the 1964 Ferrari250 LM that won the 1965.
Overall, with Yoke andRint and Mast and Gregory.
(01:38):
There was a lot of other stuffin there that was Ferrari
related that wasn't sold on this.
So there was some interesting stuff.
Some stuff sold, some stuffdid not, some stuff went cheap.
You know, there's some, uh, interestingI guess you would say trinkets that
went by, you know, stuff's not cheap.
There was a nardy steeringwheel that did not sell.
I didn't catch what thehigh bid was on that.
(01:59):
Cause I jumped in a little bitlate, but you know, they had an S
between the two to 4, 000 euros.
So I would say it was bid under2, 000 cause it didn't sell.
So.
I don't know.
I think that's right in the rangeof about 2, 500 bucks for that.
But I guess no one needed a new nardysteering wheel for their Ferrari.
Then there was another one that was a F300 formula one engine signed by Michael
(02:21):
Schumacher that went for 48, 000 euros.
That's kind of interesting.
I mean.
I don't know, I guess you're justgoing to display that thing because
it's not like it's going to be ableto run again or anything like that.
Then there was a GillesVilleneuve Cavalino Trophy
that sold for 12, 000 Euros.
Obviously the name tied to that is goingto push it up there in value wise, but
(02:43):
that's a neat little trinket for somebody.
That's pretty cool.
That's, you know, that's for theperson that's got everything Ferrari.
Then they had an F40 luggageset that was done up by Chidoni,
who, uh, if I'm not pronouncingthat correctly, I apologize, but.
43, 200 euros for some luggage.
So it was basically three pieces, hangers,some, and the bags for me like that.
(03:05):
But I mean, obviously they'renot making them anymore.
So whoever got their hands onthat was wanting to complete the,
what they have for their F 40.
So, cause obviously the more stuffyou have for it, the better and
the higher it's going to sell.
Now this is because right afterthat was a toolkit for an F 40.
So my guess.
Same owner had that and just didn't botherto include it with the sale of his F40.
(03:27):
He decided to hold on to it.
I cannot stand that.
When people have the stuff thatgoes with the car, that when it
left the factory had all the littleaccoutrements, and then they don't send
it along its way when they sell it.
They keep it.
And then it's just likelittle piecemeal things.
It's just wrong.
It's rude.
It's just Just selleverything that came with it.
The big one that's always annoys me isthe f50 I don't know if anyone knows
(03:51):
or is aware of it The fact is but f50actually came with your own pair of
racing shoes was one of the thingsthat came with it And that's a rare
oddity to have those included withthe car So then there were a couple
of race suits from Michael Schumacher.
The first one went for 6, 000 It's62, 400, but that was from 2003, but
then the one that was just a yearold or 2002 went for 48, 000 euros.
(04:14):
So, not signed by him, anything like that,so, but it was one of his race suits.
I guess that'd be something coolto frame up, put on your wall, you
know, put in a nice glass case,do something really nice to it.
Cause I doubt you'd fit into it,but unless you're a tiny person,
but I don't know, would you wear it?
I mean.
Me, I'd probably wear it if I couldfit in it, but I doubt it highly.
Now the next one that came up thatdid not sell though was just an engine
(04:36):
from a 512 BB LM. Unbelievable engine.
I was a little surprised this didn'tsell because you can kind of put
this thing in quite a few things.
And there was actually a actual 512BB LM that went later in the auction.
So again, why they didn'tsell this as a pair?
Hey, you got, you know, send a Spareengine along with your new 512 BBLM.
(04:57):
I don't know.
Again, some of thisstuff is just nonsense.
And it just irritates thehell out of me doing it.
But, that would have been a nice piece.
I don't know what it got put up to.
Because again, this is aboutwhere I jumped in at here.
Few vehicles after that.
Few lots, I guess you could say.
I came in because I wasa little bit sidetracked.
So, I came in with right about a 1972Ferrari Dino 246 GT by Scaglietti.
(05:21):
Yeah.
So for 342, 500 euros, that'sactually pretty good right
there on the money for that car.
Now, these things have been gainingvalue, getting a lot of traction.
People have been kind of overlookingthe fact that, you know, originally
there's, they weren't called Ferraris.
It was, you know, you know, just theDino, you know, it was assembled by Fiat.
It had a Ferrari engine,but everything else.
(05:43):
But in subsequent years, peoplekind of, I guess, turned the tide
and said, no, that's a Ferrari.
And a lot of people, Remove the Dinobadge and put a Ferrari badge on there.
They're gorgeous, gorgeous cars, small.
I don't fit in it.
So, I mean, I could fit init, but just not comfortably.
Beautiful car, but that was aboutright where it is on the money.
Those things are getting really,really popular out in the marketplace.
(06:06):
I'm not quite sure why.
I mean, it's not like it's got tonsof horsepower, but, you know, fun
little car, light, toss it around.
It's like a little go kart, soyou can have some fun with it.
Little bit fragile, but, you know,hey, it's one of those things to
enjoy and just have some fun with it.
You know, it's like, why not?
You got the money, spend it.
Ciao!
The next item that came up thatwas a Ferrari was a 599 GTO.
(06:30):
Now there was a lot of, I don'twant to say pushback, but there
was a lot of scuttlebutt whenthey came out with the 599 GTO.
Because people thought, you know,that moniker Only gets attached to
very special Ferraris and some Chevys.
But anyways, so there was a lot of pushbecause it's like, Oh, it's not special.
If they really didn't do enoughfor it to be considered a GTO and
(06:53):
you know, putting that tag to it,was it a money grab by Ferrari?
Possibly, but.
Again, these are jumping up in price, too,and this thing sold for 815, 000 Euros.
Now, these numbers are allin, so this is including buyer
fees and everything like that.
I think RM's at, like, 12 percent thefirst 100, 000, then, uh, 5 percent
on the balance, something like that.
(07:15):
Getting up there, so, if youwant to do the math, have at it.
These things have been gaining value and599s have been getting a lot of traction.
Awesome car, absolutely awesome car.
That's one of the onesthat everyone's buying.
Because you can get them for 150,000, 140, 000 with low mileage,
great services, right like that,and just do a manual swap on it.
There is only 30 worldwide, 20 forthe U. S., in a manual, factory manual
(07:39):
599 GT, uh, 599 GTP, I should say.
The GTO, so they started to come outwith other variants and everything
like that, but you know, fantastic car.
Oh, sounds beautiful.
Fantastic car.
So, that was, you know, probably aboutright where the money's at on those.
Um, that wasn't too shocking.
It's not too difficult to find thoseout in the marketplace, though.
(08:00):
So, you know, it's alwayskind of interesting when these
people, uh, you know, send thiskind of stuff to the auction.
Because the one thing I always kindof tell people in regards to, you
know, sending a car to auction,you know, and then especially if it
doesn't sell, you kind of tainted it.
Because now it's like, well, that'swhat people are willing to pay for it.
Now, granted, it all dependson who is in the room, who is
(08:21):
on the phone, who is following.
Yeah, there's some variables, butthat's all public knowledge now.
So everyone's going to think,no, it's only worth that.
So you kind of screw thepooch when you do that.
If it doesn't sell, um, that's whyI kind of, a lot of people, well,
if you're going to do it, do noreserve, but you know, that's a big
old gamble on the other side of it.
People say, well, people know we'llsell them when you do a no reserve.
(08:43):
So it has a tendency to havea little more panache to it.
So it gets a little more value to it.
So it all depends what your mindsetis and you know, how much the
auction house talks you into it andhow much they try and butter it up.
Cause I, some of these, you know, theauction house will bid themselves,
not so much a no reserves, but youknow, they're, they do all these
(09:04):
backdoor things and stuff like that.
You know, that's one thing whyI really am not a fan of taking
a car to an auction house.
They're not no different from anyother auction that's selling off of
farm equipment from a farmer thatwent bust or something like that.
You know, I mean, it's just, I don't know.
I'm just not a fan.
There's some cool stuff to him,but Anyways, that's my opinion.
(09:25):
Now, the next one came up and thiswas a heck of a deal, I thought.
It was a 2004 Ferrari360 Challenge race car.
Now, that one went, soldall in for 109, 250 euros.
I thought that was a heck of a deal.
Now, if you look at the ChallengeStradale's, you know, obviously it's a
road legal version of that car, basically.
(09:46):
Not as hardcore, uh, notas stripped out, but.
I don't think it would take all thatmuch to take that challenge car and
turn it in and make it street legal.
If you really wanted to.
Now it's got an F1 transmission in it.
It's a little bit quicker, butthat's kind of, it's very raw.
Fantastic car, but for someone that wantsto go racing, do track days, something
(10:07):
like that, do some historic stuff.
That is a fantastic car to go do it.
It's very, very wellmannered, very neutral.
fantastic car.
Um, you know, not that difficultto work on, still get spares
for everything like that.
So you're not really left in a lurch.
So that was a very, very good buy.
Now, the next one we're goingto talk about was one of the big
(10:29):
hitters, the 1970 Ferrari 512 M,one of the only ones in yellow.
Now this thing is stunningand it sounds fantastic.
That got bid.
up to a little over 7 million andthey had the low estimate of nine.
So they were saying nineto 12 million euros.
(10:52):
So it went just a little bit over seven.
So it was pretty dang low in regardsto Where it was going to go, um, which
was very surprising to me, and it wasvery surprising to a lot of people in
the room, online, everything like that.
I had a conversation with someoneafter that thing did not sell,
(11:12):
and everyone was really shockedthat that thing didn't sell.
I mean, it's got people talking about,okay, Seinfeld sent his 917 through.
Uh, in Kissimmee, and it didn't sell 25million, you know, was that just a ploy?
Was that just a play?
Was that just something by DanaMecham and Jerry and stuff?
Hey, Dana stroked him a check forhalf a mil or something like that.
(11:35):
You know, hey, bring it down, we'llpay for everything, and we just
won't sell it, blah, blah, blah.
You know, we just want publicity,something along those lines, which,
hey, if that's the case, that's genius.
But, it kind of sours things, becausepeople are like Wait a minute, he just
bought that not, well, a few years agofor 13, 000, 000 or something like that.
Again, though, it's notlike he needs the money.
But anyways, so this thing basicallygot bid up to roughly just under
(12:00):
2, 000, 000 below its low estimate.
I mean, that's significant fora car like that with its race
history, everything like that.
So, I mean, was the owner greedy?
Thinking it was worth more?
Was the auction housewrong with the value?
And placing that, but Imean, that's significant.
1. 7 million euros below the low estimate.
I don't know.
(12:20):
And dot maybe, well, Hey, after thesale, do something, you know, uh, close
it with somebody after the sale to kindof negotiate, but that's a big jump.
1. 7 million is quite a bit to try andclose the gap and make people happy.
And my guess is the owner of that car waslike, I'm not budging from my low estimate
of 9 million or something like that.
(12:41):
And again, who knows what the reserve was?
I mean, that's an unknown number.
I mean, could it have been like 8.
5, maybe something along those lines?
8. 2 or 8 million, maybe?
I don't know.
It'd be interesting to find out,but the thing is still available.
It's still, you know, good.
Still available for sale through RM.
Curious to see in a weekor so here, I'll find out.
I'll let everybody know what they'retrying to get out of that car.
(13:03):
But I mean, that's a stunning car.
I mean, unbelievable race history.
It's yellow.
It's not red.
You know, I mean, just fantastic car.
Again, what's going on with racecars in this market right now?
They're not selling.
It's a little strange.
Now, the next Ferrari that cameup was a few lots after that.
And again, I felt thiswas a heck of a deal.
(13:25):
Now I don't know if it hadit's um, battery redone.
Cause I know after a certainamount of Ferrari did a recall or
something like that and they swappedthe battery out for free I think.
Or it was like a hundredgrand, I don't know.
But after a certain point thebatteries on those things needed
to be changed no matter what.
But this thing sold at 3.
55
(13:46):
million euros.
And it's yellow.
So I think, you know,that gives it some value.
I thought this was a heck of a buy.
In my opinion, wafts are moreup in the 4 million range, 4.
Three maybe, something like that,depending on mileage, service
history, and that kind of stuff.
Or if it's a U. S. version.
Again, I think someonegot a heck of a deal.
(14:07):
They bought it at the low endof the market, that's for sure.
So someone's going to have a, a LaF,that's a LaF, no, a LaF Ferrari.
For a heck of a deal, go outand enjoy it and have some fun.
I've never had the opportunityto drive one or sit in one.
But from my understanding,they're fantastic cars to drive.
Very easy.
I mean, just incredible stuff.
So, again, someone got themselvesa heck of a deal on that car.
(14:31):
So, have fun and enjoy.
Now, the next one that popped upwas right after the LaFerrari.
Was a 1981 Ferrari 512 BBLM.
Now this is the one where that enginethat did not sell before should have
went with this or should be stuck withthis instead of selling them separate.
Now, that one got bid up to 1.
(14:53):
6. Low estimate.
Two million euros.
Are you far off?
Yes or no.
I mean, obviously 400, 000doesn't seem, is a lot, but you
know, you start talking to it.
So I was surprised I didn't find ahappy medium with someone in the room
or on the phone with that car andmove it along and find a new owner.
It wasn't that big of a gap.
(15:14):
Unless, again, unless the owner wassticking to their guns and said nope,
this is what I want, this is whatI'm sticking to, I ain't budging.
I don't know, but it'sstill available for sale.
Great for historics, everything like that.
You know, it's on that cusp of a lotmore things becoming eligible, like, you
know, year wise, everything like that.
But, that would be such a fun track car.
It's a very unique car, especially thebodywork's unbelievable on that car.
(15:38):
It is so, I don't want to sayaerodynamic, but just swoopy.
It's a great looking car.
I think that's my opinion.
But again, it did not selland race car street car.
I mean, way below estimate.
I mean, unbelievable.
The next one that cameacross that did not sell.
(15:59):
was a 1950 51 Ferrari 212 225export by body by Vignale.
They were asking, the lowestimate was around 2.
5 million euros.
It got bid to 1.
9. Not that far off, butnow you're marketing.
Who's going to want to buythat car shrinks a bit.
(16:20):
I would think possibly that wouldbe, you know, millimillion eligible.
Obviously go to myself that, I mean,it would be eligible for a majority
of the events around the world.
I'm surprised, again, they didn'tfind a happy medium between someone
in the room or on the phone tohave someone take this thing home.
It's, that one was a little bafflingitself, so I'm not quite sure why that one
(16:42):
didn't move along to a new home either.
But again, it was just,it's a, it's a weird market.
Weird things going on stuff thatshould sells not selling stuff that
you sells you're like jeez for thatmuch again I don't know next up.
It was right after the 212 was a2005 Ferrari Super Amaro stunning
stunning car Fantastic car again,though, but it was kind of weird.
(17:06):
It got bid up to 550, 000 eurosThe low estimate was 650, 000.
Meet in the middle.
I mean, 50, 000 to you, 50, 000 to me.
Come on.
Find that happy medium.
I am surprised that did not find a home.
Because one rarity on that car,first of all, you know, is one of
(17:27):
the things, I am just amazed that it,uh, didn't, especially the fact Five.
It's a manual 550 super.
I mean, it's a manual.
I mean, great color combination.
Silver.
The red.
How could that not find a home?
And how could they not find a medium?
I mean, someone step up.
This thing is stunning.
I just, I don't know.
That one was a baffling one.
(17:49):
How it did not sell again.
That was a head scratcher on thatone because it's a stunning car.
Manual transmission.
Weird.
You know, being based on the 575.
Five.
how few actual manual just base 575swere built then you got the super america
based on that it's a 5 7 and i'm tryingto remember top of my head i think it was
(18:14):
just around 43 of them were all producedwith the manual transmission so i mean
that is a rare rare bird And I don't thinkit would take much to get that, you know,
to import it in here to the United States,kind of federalized somehow, some way.
Whether there's a will, there's a way.
But again, I don't know,man, that was just odd.
I figured that was a slam dunk.
And it stalled at 550, 000 Euros.
(18:37):
When you got standard, a manual575 going for 350, 300, 350
maybe range, maybe a little more.
And then you got the rarity of this.
I, again, I don't know.
That was a big head scratcher.
Now on to the granddaddy of thewhole day, I guess you could say,
(18:58):
or the two days of this auction.
The 1964 Ferrari 250 LM. The1965 Le Mans winner by Masten,
Gregory, and Jochen Ritt.
That is a great story on that because,you know, that's one of those deals where
the moon and the stars and everythingaligned Didn't really even want to race.
They didn't think there's no way thiscar is gonna make it So they beat the
(19:20):
shit out of it in the beginning justpounding and pounding and pounding
it and it just wouldn't break Theyactually had to go hunt down Cause he
was basically getting, I think likehalfway gone track, something like that.
He like disappeared cause he'slike, Oh, it's not going to last.
And Madison Gregory didnot like racing at night.
(19:40):
He couldn't see all that well.
It got to the point where theyhad to go try and find Yoko.
And Madison Gregory camein to do a driver change.
They couldn't find Yoko,so he had to go back out.
I think it was for like another threeor four laps before they finally
got Yoken, found him, brought himback to the track, and got him in.
He's like, oh geez, okay.
And so that point on, a lot of the leadingcars were dropping out, the ones that
(20:02):
were the favorites, and lo and behold.
These guys were leading, like I said,you know, it's one of those things where,
yeah, skill, everything like that, but alot of luck plays into that, especially
back then when a lot of mechanicalfailures were happening, because those
cars weren't designed like they aretoday to be like just brick shithouses.
Back then, yeah, they werefragile pieces of machinery.
(20:23):
For them to last 24 hours and then to goballs out like they were doing, normally
it was, those races back then, it was,okay, set a pace, we need to get to the
last few hours, once we get to the lastfew hours, depending on where we're at,
Then we'll just start hammering out.
But these day and age,it's a sprint from get go.
From the drop of the green flagto the checkered flag waves.
(20:43):
You know, they're just going balls outbecause those things are bulletproof.
Back then it wasn't.
But absolutely stunning car.
I've seen this carseveral times in person.
You don't realize how small that car is.
It is tiny.
You know, and the V12 in it.
I'm sorry, the 12 cylinder in it.
It is, um, the pistonsare tiny, it was at a 1.
5, I think it is, ifmemory serves me correctly.
(21:07):
So I mean, it's not a big motor, itsounds glorious, that's for sure.
I mean, it's just anabsolutely stunning car.
Now here's the thing, this was one ofthe ones that was being auctioned off
by our own RM Sotheby's on behalf ofthe Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum.
Because they're, they shut down becausethey're doing massive expansion and
(21:28):
everything like that on the museum.
Now, here's the thing that people,you know, they're thinking, Oh God,
they're going to get all this moneyand they're going to do this massive
renovation and stuff like that.
All the money and proceeds generatedfrom the sale of all the cars that
they put up for auction cannot gotowards the expansion and renovations.
All that money can go towardsfuture purchases of vehicles
(21:49):
and set up an endowment.
To operate and run the museum.
It cannot go towards anyconstruction on that.
So that's a whole separatefundraising effort by the
Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum.
And you know, oddly enough, Idon't know if people know this,
but Penske bought IMS and all that.
The museum wasn't part of that.
So the museum is actuallya whole separate entity.
But anyway, all this money canonly go towards buying new cars
(22:10):
and new inventory and stuff to putout there, which is interesting.
So that sold, all in, fees andeverything, for 34 million eight
hundred eighty thousand euros.
They had it at, how wasit, 25, 000 or more.
So they really didn't evengo with the high part.
So, being a Le Mans winning caradds a ton of value to this car.
Especially being the last Enzoera Ferrari to win Le Mans, really
(22:35):
kind of put an emphasis on it.
You know, I was talking with someoneabout this a couple days ago, and my
guess, to compare it to a standard,I say standard, but you know, one
with not much race history or, youknow, especially this pedigree.
My guess, this added 30%, 35percent to the value of the car.
I know of a couple 250LMs thatare out there that are available.
(22:58):
Uh, some really good ones too for,you're in the mid 20 millions range.
So, you know what, so you're up abovethat by another, you know, 10 million.
I, I thought it was well sold.
I mean, great price.
But where it should have been, I hopethe owner takes it out and shows it
and runs it and drives it doesn'tjust get, you know, put away and no
one gets to see it again because themuseum took this car to a lot of places.
(23:22):
I always saw it up to the M one concourse.
They always brought it out.
But I, you know, I saw itAmelia stuff like that.
So I mean, they really got this car outand showcase showcase it to everyone.
Everyone got to see it.
Not say touch it and feel it, butyou'll get to hear it run when
they're moving or anything like that.
So that was really cool.
So I'm hoping that happenswith the new owner.
So anyways, that was probablythe only one that wasn't shocked.
(23:45):
Well, besides that Dino, fantastic,fantastic buy for this person,
such an unbelievable car.
The museums own this thing since71, 72, something like that.
So they've owned it forever.
And for this thing to finally come up andgo into private hands is unbelievable.
I, if I was a museum, I don'tknow if I would have sold it.
(24:05):
I mean, that's just, it'ssuch a, such a special car.
Cause again, it could be ondisplay so everyone can see it.
You can do stuff, so it all dependson what the new owner is going to do.
We shall see!
So who knows, but all in all, likeI said, a lot, a lot of surprises.
Cause of these no sales, and being a nosale like way under the low estimate.
(24:26):
I think we're seeing a bit ofa shift in the market here,
what's going on in regards to carprices, uh, collector car prices.
People not thinking, you know,thinking they're going to still
get the same kind of money theywere getting a couple years ago.
Has stuff dropped off?
Is there a big switch?
I don't know.
I mean, you always haveadjustments here and there.
And then what happens is all ofa sudden stuff becomes a bargain.
(24:48):
People start jumping on stuff andbuying it and prices go back up.
So you're always going to have up anddowns in the collective car market.
And again, my adage is, look, ifyou're in, if you're buying this car
solely to try and make money on it.
You're not buying itfor the right reasons.
Now, if you have plenty of money whereit doesn't matter, but Hey, I'm going to
take a swing at this buy and hopefullysee where it gets to in five, 10 years.
Okay.
Have at it, but that's just me, butI'm more about passion of the car.
(25:11):
Not so much.
Hey, collectability wise in regardsto, you know, numbers and, Oh, I'm
going to double my money in 10 years.
If that happens.
That's just a bonus.
All in all some interesting stuff.
So we have some new otherauctions come up here soon.
That's got some big stuff in it.
You know, obviously Amelia's coming up.
Moda is going to be coming up.
So they have some great thingscoming across the block.
(25:32):
We'll see where things go.
One auction really doesn't kind ofdictate the market, but there's a
lot of similar cars going across theblock at those next two big events.
So it's going to be interesting tosee where things settle and see if
we got some adjustments going on.
Appreciate you guys listening.
Stay tuned.
Great stuff coming next week.
Appreciate it guys.
(25:55):
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For more episodes like this, tune in eachweek for more exciting and educational
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