October 10, 2025 • 40 mins
Jon Summers is the Motoring Historian. He was a company car thrashing technology sales rep that turned into a fairly inept sports bike rider. On his show he gets together with various co-hosts to talk about new and old cars, driving, motorbikes, motor racing, motoring travel.
Jon opens the show with an anecdote about his son Ollie's go-karting experiences at both gas and electric karting events. He recounts the ups and downs of Ollie's races and emphasizes the sportsmanship displayed. The discussion then shifts to broader topics: Jon and his co-host Mark Gammie reminisce about memorable driving experiences and classic cars. They debate the concept of 'peak car,' particularly valuing models from the early 2000s for their balance of technology and driving experience. The conversation also meanders through various automotive histories, discussing the evolution of driving aids like traction control, and touching on specific car models such as the Toyota 2000 and Mazda Cosmo. They end by considering auto imports and the market for classic European cars in the U.S.
==================== 00:00 Introduction & Welcome 00:43 Anecdote: Ollie's Karting Adventure 05:11 Discussing Racecraft and Techniques 08:57 Exploring California Roads 11:44 Debating Peak Cars 21:42 Debating Traction Control 24:24 Motorbike Traction Control and Safety Aids 25:43 Exciting New Cars and Tech 27:08 Hot Hatches and European Imports 33:11 Classic Japanese Cars and Their Appeal 37:26 Toyota's Iconic Models 39:10 Conclusion and Credits===== (Oo---x---oO) =====
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
John Summers is the motoring historian.
He was a company car thrashing technologysales rep that turned into a fairly inept
sports bike rider hailing from California.
He collects cars and bikesbuilt with plenty of cheap and
fast and not much reliable.
On his show, he gets together withvarious co-hosts to talk about new
and old cars driving motorbikes,motor racing, and motoring travel.
(00:35):
Good day.
Good morning, good afternoon.
It is John Summers,the motoring historian.
Today with Mark Gamy.
I always open with a little anecdote.
Don't I always come straightto the point now To kidding.
You know, keep a pace up and all.
We're always open with alittle anecdote this time.
Little anecdote, uh, markfeatures Ollie carting.
We, uh, went and looked at somegas carting over the weekend.
(00:57):
That all felt very, very real.
Up at Sonoma, but, uh, earlier inthe week, did hiss first like Grand
Prix at electric carting due toa, a weird set of circumstances.
Let me be candid with what they were.
Two sessions where they controlthese electric carts, they control
'em from the pits, how much powerthey've got, and so for the.
(01:21):
First two or three laps.
You can't really do a fast lapbecause they don't wind the power
up or the tires aren't warmer.
I don't know quite.
Anyway, whatever.
All these fastest laps arealways lap five, six, or seven.
Well, on this occasion, one ofthe carts ran out of battery,
so they came back into the pits.
And, uh, whilst they were inthe pit, um, and they came, so
(01:43):
they came back into the pit.
So, so there were two short qualifyingsessions, so he didn't really lay
down like the best that he could do.
And that meant that instead of beingin the A main for the actual Grand
Prix, he was like in the B but hewas on the front row of the bee.
Mm-hmm.
So at the start, the guy on polechops over on him and he touches
(02:07):
the back of the car, loses momentum.
Into the second turn, there's likea shoot down to the second turn.
It's a heaven three abreast with a guywho's third who's got a clean start
and of that turn, they get through thatturn cleanly, but out of that turn,
Ollie loses the drag race and is third.
(02:27):
Yep.
Pole guy, little guy couldn't havebeen more than seven or eight years
old, is disappearing off up the track.
Ollie is valiantly climbing all overthe back of the third place guy.
This goes on until lap three.
A clean pass is AC betweenlaps three and six.
(02:47):
Steady progress is made catching theleaders disappeared up the road and
for the last six laps, they weren'tmore than two feet apart all the time.
Super clean racing.
The other lad's parents likecouldn't contain themselves.
Like I couldn't be looking at thembecause it was that, like it was
that year that Manser was leading theMonaco Grand Prix, had to get tires,
(03:10):
came out and was all over the back ofcenter, and Cena just had to make no
mistakes and center made no mistakes.
But boy did mantle try hardand boy did Ollie try hard.
Diddy especially try hardwith the back markers.
But, um, this other lad crossed theline, a clear half a cart length,
a head volley, both of them didtheir fastest lap on the last lap.
(03:33):
Cool.
Two really cute podium ceremony and, youknow, parents shaking hands and general
sort of, uh, of warm feel all around.
And I missed the punchlinethere as I'm wont to do.
Was that.
In the park ferme afterwards, the firstthing all he did when he got out of his
(03:53):
car before coming over to us or removinghis helmet, he took his glove off and
shook hands with the guy who'd beaten him.
And I said that to himafterwards and on the way home.
He was like, well, yeah,I'd had a really good race.
You'd given me a really good race.
That's the best raceI've ever had at K one.
Awesome.
So, uh, you know, proud Parent, they'remore partly for the speed and the racing,
(04:16):
but of course also for the gentleman younurse, which, you know, feeds in than
to, uh, one wanting to, to do it further.
So, yeah.
I'd already planned to sacrifice mySaturday, taking him up to Sonoma to
see what was happening there, but I wasa whole lot more keen to do it on the,
on the back of the performance there.
And up at Sonoma, it wasthis series, KFX, carting.
(04:38):
It's definitely real.
These are like rotax carts.
I don't know how fast they go.
The, the stuff online saidthey do 75 miles an hour.
It didn't look that fast to me,it looked more like 35 or 40.
To me.
Maybe it's the nature of the circuit atSonoma, maybe they had the power turned
down for what was meant to be a test day.
But yeah, there were kidsOllie's age and size out there
(04:59):
on the track with like adults.
'cause there's three series, there'slike a junior series, like a, a teen
series and then a masters series forold fogies people older than uh, 32.
I was watching um, world Superbikes Today.
My brother-in-law, uh, has got aDiscovery plus login, which is Motor
(05:19):
GP and World Superbikes in the uk.
And other stuff they can burn.
All the rest.
As far as I'm concerned, it'smo g being one superbikes that,
that, that channel's four.
And the art of the block pass.
So you are not quick out, but you arequick in and you position your bike such
that the other guy can't come back out.
You afterwards might be a kartingthing as well, I suspect so you might
(05:44):
want to get him to have a littlelook 'cause you know what I mean?
Often that it's about carrying momentum,but for clean passes and stuff, sometimes
you have to park it on the apex andbe like, I'm lucky son, and then you,
you know, you are slow behind me out.
Maybe he wants to do a bit of watchinga bit of WSB or a bit of motor GP to see
how those boys are doing their passes.
You could probably learn a bit.
That's really good advice and, andreally useful because, uh, he's
(06:05):
really good with the, uh, with theracecraft and these carts are so wide,
especially the, the electric ones.
Now, he has found the way to passpeople is, is the way guys like.
Hamilton or, or path people thatyou come up and firstly they know,
they see how fast you come up.
And then secondly, you do that thingwhere you like stand off and you
(06:27):
look for an opportunity and whenyou see it, you lunge, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And, and he's done, uh, a reasonablejob at that over the years.
You know, like perfecting thatand not getting frustrated.
There was one race where he isreally frustrated behind somebody,
and I was like, that's the last racewhere you're gonna be like that.
You know, in future you're gonna fall offand come back at him and find another way.
(06:49):
Because what he won't do isalways, he's like Dale, Jr. He
won't, you know, he's not a ram.
Not at all.
No.
But selling the dummy can also be good.
I'm fast here.
I'm fast here.
And then being, especially because youremember, um, you remember that race
where Alonzo defended against Schumacherfor ages and Schumacher came in and came
out again, and Alonso did a ridiculouslyfast in lap in order to keep him behind.
(07:12):
And then for the last 15, 20 laps, hewas all over him and he had a faster car
and Alonzo would just be deliberatelylike quick down the straight and then
deliberately slow into the skis so Michaelcouldn't get him and then was boxed
up behind him and then was inevitably,you know, after car length later onto
the accelerator and couldn't get him.
And you're right, it's the sortof, I just have to drive perfectly.
(07:32):
You can't get me even thoughyou've got a faster car.
Because the, the fluff on Manselland center then was, if I recollect.
From people like James Hunt watching it.
He was never gonna gethim driving like that.
No.
He was all over him, but he wasn't.
He wasn't all over him.
He didn't try once Palla in the only placeyou've got and set everything up for that.
He was all over him trying to do itin unusual places and all that sort
(07:55):
of thing, which was super exciting.
I remember the Grand Prix.
But Hunt was like, nah, great,but you ain't winning it.
Although I think his alsofallback position was, it's
Monica, you ain't winning anyway.
Yeah, I mean, Ollie had six lapsand afterwards Ley discussed the
race mourned that he hadn't had.
The three that he would've had hadthere not been further valid point 50%.
(08:20):
You, you know what I mean?
I'm just like, I'm, I'm just at a stagewhere if I see him improving in every
race, I see his race craft getting better.
And if we are having fun.
It's just, dude, I totally agree andyou know, it's, what I didn't say
is what if I was like, I don't know,some sort of hardass race coach.
It's like, well, I'm being happy withlosings, like a loser's mentality
and like, you know, what do youdoing if fucking celebrate in second
(08:42):
fuck off with all of that shit?
I absolutely celebrate thesport in that aspect of it.
It should be fun.
So I went to Lodiyesterday and got the E 55.
It's the first time I think,since probably last August's run.
(09:06):
I went down Modesto and then came home.
So I put, I've probably put 200miles on it since, and it's.
Still probably needs a wheelbarrow.
It runs really well.
Rolled over 162,000 miles.
I drove the most awesome road, Californiaone 30 from Patterson West to the
(09:29):
James Lick Observatory and then downinto San Joe's, and then, uh, got
on the free whistle and drove home.
Basically this observatory overlooksthe valley from the view at the top.
You can look over the bottom of the bayand Silicon Valley, and I drove over
there right as the sun was setting.
(09:50):
It was not planned.
It was.
Absolutely awesome.
The road is way too long.
I mean, way too long foryou to do it regularly.
I have done it before onceon that whole CBR race bike.
When I took it out to storagein Sali, just because of
(10:12):
the way that the route was.
I must have, but it's too long.
It's like took.
Absolutely hours, and it switchbackswith sheer drop off, so you don't
want to be doing it at night.
It's gravel roads, but it's,it's also stop for a P at
the side of the road, right.
Not only do know cars comeby, but there is no sound.
(10:36):
And you're like, wow, I'm inthe Bay Area, but I'm not.
So that California one 30 was, wasreally a fine, but my other thought was,
so that's the E 55 running perfectly.
Not sure if we talked aboutthis before, but a colleague
Dana's at work has, uh, 2019.
E 63 s wagon.
(10:57):
Lovely car.
You say probably was before itneeded a new motor at 40,000 miles.
What'd he do to it?
Well, that's your thought, isn't it?
It came from Carvana.
It was used, it was, you know, certifiedif that means anything from Carvana.
The point is, this is not thefirst of these incidents with
(11:20):
these recent E 63 motors.
I'm not s slate in Mercedes particularly.
I am just saying that I donot believe modern cars.
Are being made with the same, orcars for the last 10 years have
been made with the same integrity ofthose that have been, that were made
(11:41):
in the, at the turn of the century.
I used to struggle before upuntil this last Pebble Beach.
If you'd have said to me, PeteCarr is the year 2000, I'd
have said, no, it's the 1960s.
I'm almost now agreeing with the EdBullions and the 40 somethings and
when I said that to Ollie for Ollie,it's like, it's obvious, right?
(12:03):
But think of it, this is my, uh, you know,I'm more of an older generation than me.
We understand why the GTO'sthe most valuable car.
We even kind of get Dusenberg, theEd Boian 40 something generation.
They.
See McLaren's as awesome and theykind of get the GTO 'cause they kind
of get that previous generation.
(12:25):
This is my, uh, conjecture.
Yeah.
But I can, I can sort of go with that.
I mean, it's, it's, it's peakcar 2000 that's the question.
I I, it, it would what's peak car?
I mean, it's like peakcar in what category?
I mean, because they can't all bethe same in the sense that, you
know, if McLaren F1 is peak car,if you like, in terms of supercar.
(12:45):
Or ultimate car if you want.
You know, that's not an everyday car.
I know it could be used everyday, but it's not practical.
You know, you need to, you need other carsif you're gonna have something like that.
So then you want a peak car in your, Iknow, hot hatchback territory or peak car
in your saloon car territory you want.
So there's a bunch ofhorses for courses here.
The best car I've everowned is that 2007 Nissan.
(13:06):
Nissan three 50 z. It was the bestcar in terms and I for this is the
best car for another, for Stu, mymate who's owned one as well and
has owned a bunch of other stuff.
He would, well, last time I spoketo him, he said it was still the
best car he'd ever bought as well.
And he's had Tvrs and all sorts of stuff.
And I think what I'm saying thereisn't so much, it's the best
car is there's a balance for me.
A bit like I was looking, some oldphotos that we'd taken on holiday,
(13:28):
like in the US on road trips andstuff, but in the very early ones and
the camera phones aren't up to it.
So the pictures you've got from therewere taken on the same sort of like,
uh, spring day, beautiful sunshine,you know, out and about in the nature.
So there's great light, but the picturesjust aren't as good a res. And I
think it's the same with cars as well,in terms of the overall experience,
because for me, what did that have?
(13:50):
It had basic traction control.
A nice stereo and just reallygood rear bias, mechanical grip.
Even by that, when we were coming, Ithink we were coming off the M 50 bit
up outta whale, under the roundaboutand the M five and then on the up ramp
on, so we were coming on from nineo'clock and then going round and then
going onto the m, the M five, goingsouth towards Bristol at six o'clock.
And I remember it was late at night.
(14:10):
It was, it's a well lit, really widesort of three name wide piece of, um.
A road or two lane might atleast there was nobody there.
And I came round it pretty quick on the,in on, coming into the roundabout 'cause
you've got a massive long sight line.
There's nowhere there was able tocome onto the throttle really early.
'cause it's uphill on the,on the, on the on ramp.
You were surprised athow early and how hard?
I could and, and committedly I could comeonto the throttle and just stay on it.
(14:33):
The Sierra was a, wasa, was an amazing car.
I didn't have the horses or, but hadfundamentally honest performance,
honest sort of chassis characteristics.
But that is that taken to anothersort of the exponential up level of
usable, everyday practical, not eatingyou at the petrol tank delivering
you, you know, 300 plus horsepower.
Although, geez, the geezersthem, modified them for me.
(14:53):
Reckon they've never producedactual 300 horsepower.
But it was a chunky toy power.
And it really sort ofgave you what you want.
So again, you can go from thereand the earlier back you go, you
start to lose some of the aids.
So how much aids do you want?
Do you want to cater 'emfrom the 1950s with nothing?
Or do you want everything like todaywith parking assist and lane assist and
fucking ass wipe assist and all the otherbullshit that you have to turn off on,
(15:17):
off every time you get in the fucking car?
There's a happy medium somewhere.
And I think it's verypersonal what that is.
Yeah.
Well, and and peak car you are rightis somewhere in the middle of that.
And I guess it's togglingto where that is.
Course the car I had throughout the timethat you add that Nissan three 50 is
that, oh one bullet Mustang that I'vedone sort of similar miles in that you,
(15:38):
well, I've done 170,000 miles of madness.
Probably not, no, not asmany as you've done in there.
Um, I've done about 75.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've done a lot more in that Nissan.
Interestingly about theclaimed 300 horsepower not
being in real 300 horsepower.
I remember when, when we did a GrandCanyon drive, not long after I had
(16:00):
the Mustang, and I remember youcommenting then that the seat of the
pants feel was not a million milesaway, which I'd expected it to be.
'cause that was as stated.
2 75 horse.
So I expected that to beless than the Nissans.
And I wondered if it was a bitdown to the V eight talk with that.
Yeah, it could be because I, I thinkthat was on the trip when we went
(16:21):
to the, was it the Southern Rim job?
Grand Grand Canyon.
It, it was, yeah.
Yeah.
I, I actually have someone, I dunno wherethey are, I have photos from, from that
trip, but I remember picking you up atthe airport and driving out of the airport
and being like, fuck Vegas, and findinga pizza place on the edge of Vegas and
eating pizza on the trunk of the carbefore the adventure commenced my own
(16:44):
comment on there in the Grand Canyon.
Southern Jo.
Having done both banks, if you like,the southern rim is better 'cause
you can drive along it for a bit.
Yeah.
Whereas Northern Rim, it's pretty,but you have to drive along a
bullshit slow, windy road that couldbe good, but you know, it's dead.
Endy turnaround stuff.
The bits before are quitepretty, especially coming
(17:04):
over the hills and stuff.
It's like you get there, you walkthrough and there's loads of like, you
know, tat for sale and then you getto view it and then you go away again.
Whereas Southern Rim job,you could drive around.
Um, hidden joke there obviously, but uh,you could drive around for like miles
and stuff and get your own sort of hangon the edge, just chill out on your own
quiet Grand Canyon rather than having toshare it with thousands of other people.
(17:25):
Well, of course, the other thing we didon that trip, which I've forgotten all
about was, uh, the helicopter flight.
Oh yeah.
And, uh, uh, we should say this, thatas lovers of Duns and Dragons and,
uh, and yeah, my own d and d campaignvery much based on Robert E. Howard
and Kona, the barbarian, um, for thehelicopter to dive into the Grand Canyon
(17:46):
and it'd be playing the music fromCannan the Barbarian at the same time.
That really was a, uh, that reallywas a me memorable moment, wasn't it?
Yeah, that was cool.
Uh, a memorable moment.
Ah.
But yeah, we were on peak car whenwe, before we, uh, wandered off into
dragons and the uh, and the Grand Canyon.
We were on peak car.
Yeah, but I, alright, so, but,but let's come back to where Peak
(18:11):
Car isn't now, is it For sure.
No.
I mean, I guess, but didwe think of that in 2000?
I wonder if we did, because back in 2000,if you'd have asked me what I wanted, like
you could have anything, what would youI'd have, I'd have said a gun mail M five.
Yeah.
I mean, I think you what?
You like me like most motoring people,if you're honest with it yourself.
(18:31):
Would probably, there would be someunderlying favorites, some sort of, you
know, ACD CS and Slayers and stuff thatstay with you permanently, if you like.
But there's also gonna be anew favorite every 18 months as
well, in a greater, less extent.
'cause, you know, yeah, yeah.
You would say that.
But I think you would'vealso said at one point.
Di Ablo SV in orange and stuff like that.
(18:52):
I still might say that.
Well, exactly.
Probably.
And again, it's difficult, isn't it?
Because like modern days,you could absolutely argue.
I watched Chris Harris's YouTubechannel's review of the F 80,
the new Ferrari Ultra car, and Ithink I sent it to you in Newton.
If you haven't seen it, goto YouTube and watch it.
It's one of the best drone shot videos.
(19:15):
I've ever seen of stuff.
The new drone pilot he'sgot is something special.
He's rinsing it around fiorano inmassive tail slides and the drone
is hovering 20 feet above the reartailpipe as he is following it
and following him through corners.
The final shot for me, the PAresistance, and I saw that you on this.
Chris, if I have a meteor, youI'll shake your hand for it.
(19:35):
His final review of the car is himstanding and it's, it's a shot that's
obviously Ferrari have told them about.
They know about in the hills.
Where you can get out and have the carand just the beautiful Italian hillsides
behind with nothing else much there.
And the whole video, it's like a twominute sign off where he talks about
the car and the drone flies in aperfect circle all the way round him.
(19:56):
So you never see any camera people.
He's just talking to the camerathe whole time turning and talking
to the drone all the way round.
And it's a really beautifully, thewhole thing is just up personified.
But if you take that car.
I don't like the looks of it much.
I think it's a bit ugly.
It doesn't win in against McLaren.
W one in the, you know, the 10-year-oldboy poster stakes is losing hands down.
(20:16):
But Harris's review, and I've seen,I've read a few others, is that it
is unbelievable that they have takenwhat is essentially a, a hypercar
and turned it into something youcould genuinely, if you were.
Ross Perot's, Nepo baby.
Spend all your time driving around him andmaybe that's why it's not so good looking
so that you can get away with that.
That's so much tech.
(20:37):
I mean, it's gonna have a20,000 mile service in the book.
So much tech.
It's gonna have a 20,000 mile.
What?
No, no.
I say it's not gonna have a 20,000mile service in the book, is it?
There's so much tech.
Everything in it istech and tech and tech.
But that's too much for me.
Well, where, where do you pair back to?
Because, you know, I think you wouldaccept that the go-karts and the
caters and the sort of re, you know,the sort of cars of our childhood, if
(20:58):
you like, where TCS quo, what I mean?
No, what's that?
Well, I, I remember when Traction Controlfirst came out feeling like it was.
Somehow not the real thing.
It was almost like, it was like adifferent version of automatic, it was
very similar to automatic transmission.
It was like you weren't reallyinvolved, but it was also, it was
(21:19):
like, it was almost like, I tell youwhat, it was the beginning of your
mom riding with you in the car, andso are you sure you wanna do that?
Just slow down there.
It was the beginning of that, wasn't it?
It really was.
It, it, it's sort of been therepassively before with seat
belts even with Understood.
But it really came with traction control.
(21:42):
Uh, the whole notion thatit could be switched off.
I was relieved the fact that itcould be switched off 'cause it meant
you could still smoke the tires.
I also thought of how sort of pointlessit was, and it frightened me that the
only reason you could switch it off wasbecause they knew that people like us
liked to burn the tires and they knew thatthe motoring rider would slate the cars.
(22:05):
And therefore people wouldn'tbuy them if they left that off.
If, if that was how we felt about tractioncontrol, where the fuck have we got it?
Like, fuck it off.
Well, yeah, but I will say, and and I,I, I, you could, I'm, I'm not saying I
feel like that about traction control.
No, no, no, for sure.
But I drove a piece of freeway justyesterday where as I came onto it, I
(22:27):
was like, oh, there is an undulationin the middle of this OnRamp because.
In the Mustang with traction control andterrible tires and a slightly damp road.
I had a moment where the tractioncontrol saved me, and this was, this
is a long time ago, five years ago.
I was driving over to Lodi.
It was whilst I was living here,it wasn't ages and ages ago.
(22:48):
It was fairly recently.
You know, the tires that were bald, I'veonly just come off the car kind of thing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but it was a while ago.
On the car ball for a really long time,I should say not bald, but just, you
know, you could see the tread patternand kind of feel it, but not completely,
you know, it was like, it was like, and,and it's rear ties and it's a Mustang
(23:08):
and you expect it to be a bit loose,and I drive slow and all of that, right?
So, and the ones at the front havegot good tread for the aquaplaned, and
that's the way I, I tend to structure.
The, uh, rear wheel drive carsthat I have, but, uh, well, I
was going somewhere with that.
TCS saved you.
Oh, undulation.
Yeah, dude, I can, I can ul Well,ululation live rear end the TCS and,
(23:31):
and the thought was that in a foxMustang, the previous generation, the
same car basically, but just with adifferent body, I would've bloody spun.
Dude, I mean, when I, we drove, we,we, on my stag dude, when we went to
the berg gr I left the TCS off on,and when we went out for the first
lap, and you remember how wet it was,I had Matt in the car and on about
(23:53):
corner 10 or 12, you know, we threwthat first little twisty complex, the
back step by about 18 inches, two feet.
And I remember thinking I'm, I wasgoing slow enough that I didn't
think that was gonna happen.
And it just sort of stayed out.
And I remember thinking,don't overcorrect.
Just don't overcorrect.
I don't want any snapbackshit, don't overcorrect.
And it came back in and I rememberthinking at the time, where were you TCS?
(24:15):
I think to be fair, TCS was going,saving your ass right there.
You know, it just eased out of the gas.
I was ca on the gas.
But having that safety net is quite nice.
And on the flip side, the only thingI would say is if you look at bikes.
Anything that goes off road, if it's gonnabe serious off road, you need to be able
to turn the traction control off anyway.
And you need to be able to turn thea BS off often if it's gonna be a
(24:36):
proper dirt bike O off the road.
So they have to be switchable.
And if you look at the other endof the scale on the latest Pali
V four s. Crazy ape shit, trackweapon, which you can obviously,
you know, buy and drive on the road.
Um, 'cause that's motorbikes, it's goteffectively sort of Ducati's answer,
which I, as I recollect Ferrari's atside slip control sort of thing, where
(24:57):
you can have the it so that comingonto the gas straight, you can just
rip the gas and if you get a littlebit of slide out, shimmy, it's like,
yeah, no problem guy, I got you.
It's just delivering.
Its 230 horsepower, like band's eye style.
Anyway, as you get onto your heavenscent Track day at Magie, so you
can deliver thrills with it as well.
(25:18):
I accept that that isn't really relevantto cars so much, but I wouldn't be
surprised if, well, the Ferrari willcertainly have, so you see what I mean?
It is just in bikes, it's somuch more accessible cash wise
for everyone it was ever this.
But yeah, I mean look, safety AIDSbroadly cool nanny state aids broadly
shit, and they're always gonna overlap.
And regulation in the EU hascertainly pushed us to more one way.
(25:40):
So, yeah, I'm less and lessinterested in anything new.
The only car I can think of in the lastfive or six years that I've thought I,
or you know, more than that probably nowthat I actually, yeah, more than that.
'cause they're one second generate now.
But I thought I would genuinely like that.
It's been, come out, it's pretty cool.
Was from, of all people Toyota andit's the Yaris GTR, which is the
little paired down two seat, well, twoplus two 'cause like the rear seat.
(26:02):
So like the roof's been squished down.
Four wheel drive, rally version of the,of the, of it with like 280 horsepower.
That the press and I look likethe look of and the reviews
were all five star reviews all.
That's kind of exciting 'cause it'sagain, taking the tech and turning
it into sort of exciting scuba evofrom our youth kind of excitement.
(26:23):
Four wheel drive trickery for you togo faster on B roads in wet whales.
That appeals to me.
I like the idea of that.
Although whales is increasinglybecoming a 30 or 20 zone car
carpet teared across the country.
So, you know, maybe, maybe not Wales,you still have the M two or is that gone?
Another curse.
It's going soon.
So I've got the the last coupleof bits to do it to get done.
(26:45):
Then I can just get short of it.
Oh, that's the other thingabout this new place.
It's got a little late, they gotgravel bit path down the side of the
house with a side gate and a garage.
I mean, at a push.
I reckon I could get six cars onthe drive and one in the garage.
Your neighbors will love you.
Well, but the thing is like, itdoesn't impinge on them 'cause
(27:06):
down the side of our house.
Dude, let's do this.
Flipping hot hatches.
Yeah, yeah.
No, we should.
I, I did on this pod a what should Ibuy from 25 years ago, we were talking
about peak car being 25 years ago.
There is a market forthese hot hatches and.
I believe that cars and bids andso on, they've done the T. They're
(27:29):
all excited about the Euro spec,Mercedes and Volkswagens and all that.
We don't need to do that.
Go to France, sniff me out a X GTS and.
4 0 5 MI 16, four by fours.
Sniff them out for us.
Fill a shipping crateand I'll sell 'em here.
Why don't you, because I'vetime at the moment in terms
(27:51):
of searching for stuff online.
Why don't you dig out that spreadsheetwe've got, I've got it somewhere.
Where we scoped out like bestcars to buy from eras and stuff.
And then let's just highlight the sort ofstuff we're gonna search for because I can
just like use it as a sort of spreadsheet.
If we share it up on the link thing.
Yeah, we can just use it as like stuffwe find and just shove costs in there.
And I mean, I'm not in any financialposition to buy anything at the
(28:13):
moment, but I mean, I am availableas an agent to perform these tasks.
So if we have the information, then wecan take a decision from there, can't we?
Because I think there's gonnabe some stuff that we think
will be there that won't.
Uh, and I think it's gonnabe idiosyncratic stuff that's
our best win, if I'm honest.
You know, again, and also the onewhere there was a lot of them, so
like Cleo one seven twos, Cleo oneeight twos, those sort of things.
(28:36):
There was a lot of those things, youknow, and they were cracking hot hatches.
They were always like fourand a five star hot hatches.
And they're small and cute andthere's enough of them that
you can get parts for them.
Whereas I think finding things like 3 09, 2 0 5, 3 0 9 GTIs, they've all gone.
You are too late for that.
But, and I think even now you probablyfind stuff like, you'll still find
the dogeared 1 8 2 trophies andthings like that, but they're all
(28:59):
still gonna be like 15 grand now.
Whereas I think the standard one eighttwos, or maybe even if you can find one
a, 1 8, 2 cup, those things you can,and you could always remember, you could
always do the cup chassis on the standard180 2 of was like a 1500 quid option.
So if it was selected, it's selected.
And that was the big uplift.
That was why it was the uplifton my one, that trophy I had,
which was a fucking brilliant car.
See, I think.
(29:20):
Here's a, here's a sweet spot.
There is a flip side to, you know how inSweden, they don't care whether the muscle
car's got two doors or four doors, whereashere in America, like a four-door car's
always a parts car, whereas they just havea completely different attitude at home.
The difference between a Fiat Strata 1 05 TC and one 30 TC is nine and day right.
(29:44):
It really matters.
The difference between an XR threeI and a. RS Turbo is huge here.
That difference, there's not the same.
And what I'm struck by the carsand bids guys, they like the
Basey ones, a 4 0 5 diesel wagon.
Nobody's ever seen one of those before.
(30:04):
That PDI motor never goes wrong,which Americans absolutely love the
notion of the thing that, you know,that would be, that's interesting.
Yeah.
Those kind of cars would be somethingthat Now the challenge, the challenge
with, with all of the things that Iknow about, of course, is it all exists
in this sub five grand marketplace,and I think shipping wise, by the
(30:26):
time you paid for the flat costsof, you know, the shipping and the
importation fees and that kind of stuff.
You need to be looking at 10, 15,20 grand cars rather than 500.
I mean, realistically, if you bought afive grand car and shipped it, you're
gonna need to sell it for 10 to 12.
But they don't exist over there.
Yes, yes.
(30:46):
So I think you could.
Realistic.
Yes.
The only way you can justify that kindof value is if yours is the only one.
That's why once I saw TVs on cars andbids, I was like, I, it's over now.
It needs to be something weird.
Like, you know, per, people have Pergofive oh fives here, so like a 4 0 5
wagon, you know, something like that.
(31:07):
Diesel, all of that isn't that.
There's the European website.
Of used cars where you can surflike across Europe, Europe wide.
It's like auto trade for Europe.
I can't remember the name of the app.
I'm looking at it on my phone now.
Auto Scout 24.
It's like yellow highlighted than,then it says Scout 24, but on.
So yeah, that's like Europe wide.
(31:29):
And for an Amer for Americanmarket, that's better 'cause
they're left hand drive cars.
Well yeah, absolutely.
How old do they need to be?
25 years.
Yeah, because everything's gonnago the way of minis, isn't it?
You know, the way classic minisare like, you can't fucking look
at one for less than five grand.
(31:50):
And you were like, what?
I remember when those bitsof shit were like 500 quid.
The other thing with 'em is,is they all get gussied up
in a totally unrealistic way.
Everyone you look at has got like some Gjaw on it that it didn't originally have.
Don't look like they look like imper.
This is a pet peeve for mine.
(32:15):
It is a bit like oldPeter Mullin, isn't it?
Who did the big gatis?
Like other people haddone the Italian cars.
You're not gonna touch theGerman factories for their
own collections of cars.
But the French stuff, that was anopen field and because Reno and per.
I've sort of been here buthaven't been here for ages.
There's a sort of enough of a thing there.
(32:37):
Okay, so there's a bunchof clear Williams's.
I did it by price, height, or low,and they're all in the 25,000 euro
range, but there's a bunch of them.
If you could make money knocking outCle Williams' in the US for, say.
40 to 50,000.
Then there's a bunch wicked shipover that feels pretty steep.
It is a limited addition Uberlike hot hatch of the hot hatch.
(33:00):
Yeah.
I don't know why.
I'd have to see what the, what Americansare paying for Delta into grows.
They're that horse that's alreadyleft the building, so to speak.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I understand.
It is funny with those Delta Integral,you know, I don't wanna be funny
or offend people and there's, youknow, I bloody love Lanier and I
just wanna say that Divvy book,Lanier at the Center is probably the
(33:23):
single best car book ever produced.
I, I mean that absolutely.
Jeffrey Goldberg, the books like $200.
Spend it.
If you love car books, do LioLancer at the center is, is
really, I love Lancer, right?
I mean, skyline or intergra.
I mean, are you kidding me?
Pasti or steak dinner like the pasti.
(33:44):
Nice if you're hungry on thestreet in the rain, but thanks.
I'll sit in with a steak dinnerand I will have red wine with it.
Thank you very much.
You know, that's how I'm,how I feel about skylines.
I mean, then have the best interior.
It's maybe a bit of a, you know.
Toby's pub kind of estate.
They're so cool.
Guidelines, they're so fucking cool.
Which era?
Which era is yours?
(34:05):
Then if you have just won the lotteryand my son has said to you, I'm probably
doing an R 34 or something like that,I love the Ken Mary's, but in this
instant, if it was my money, I thinkthe R 30 fours are so undervalued.
So undervalued.
R 30 threes are as well.
It's always been tough tofind a clean one, isn't it?
But like still, who cares?
(34:26):
I, I mean, agreed To me,it's like steelworth.
I want one that has a story andthat's been done in a tasteful way.
If it was wrecked.
Years ago, and if now it's been rebuiltand inspected and at shows, and you
know, I can see how the shut lines are.
I'll take that car over the Oh no stories.
(34:47):
I, I, yeah.
No, I know what you mean.
You get so much more car foryour money if you do that.
Oh, agreed.
Yeah, I mean it's, it'sabout picking the right car.
I'm not saying I want sometasteless, modified thing and
there's plenty of those out there.
And then really Japanese doingtheir own thing, their own way.
Garum, it was, for me, it was thefirst sort of time they really
had sort of proper impact in cars.
(35:10):
You could argue other cars that one,the bond drove that he couldn't,
that Sean Connery couldn't, theyhad to have the roof down 'cause
his head wouldn't fit in it.
He was too tall.
Um, first million dollar Japanese car.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a cutest top cut.
I mean, you know, there's no,you, you rate that, do you?
Oh, it's pretty.
I don't know whether it'sany good, but it's pretty.
So this is the Toyota 2000 s or S2000, or, I mean, it's sort of the
(35:32):
same name as the Honda, but I can,that was the first million dollar
Japanese car that, believe it or not.
Yeah.
And, and you can see why.
It's just a, it's a pretty littlecar, but I wouldn't have one.
One.
It's a crown.
It's a crown in line six witha Yamaha cylinder head on it.
The wood interior wasdone by Yamaha as well.
So what I always say about thosewhenever I see 'em, is the best bits of
(35:53):
Yamaha, aren't they not Toyota, I mean.
Good for Toyota hiringYamaha, but Oh yeah, for sure.
And look, you know, people whosneer might sneer a Yamaha.
Remember Yamaha make pianos and they'resome of the most beautiful pianos.
Oh, sneering at Yamaha for that.
No, no, you're not.
I think other, anybody you might be,I'm saying the best bit of Toyota
is is the Yamaha motorcycle cylinderdad on that Toyota Crown motor.
(36:16):
It's, it's really, uh, and I guess I'vegot a soft spot for Yamaha in engines.
I never buy Yamaha motorcycles,but apart from the Zuma, which is
slightly accepted, prove the rule.
But you remember that black Fordmon, you remember it extremely well,
that we had, this had the Dira Tech Vsix, that was a Yamaha design motor.
That V six was a Yamaha design motorand that like had no oil in it.
(36:37):
We'd still rev to six grand and we putlike, you know, six and a half grand.
We put 6,000 miles on that carB. And, you know, rode it hard at
160,000 miles and that Yamaha motorwas just coming back for more.
So, well, I have plenty of time for,uh, for Yamaha, of course, the other
Japanese car from that period, right?
That I rate more than that.
Toyota is the Mazda Cosmo.
(36:59):
Do you know that car?
Rings a bell.
Yeah, it's a sort of swoopyscience fiction-y shape.
I know.
I was gonna say again, with Mazda, I,I've got space for Mazda in my life on
the basis of their ruthless, pursue allof like two totally different engine tech.
We're gonna do Kel engine.
No one else is gonna do it.
We're gonna do it anyway.
And then we're gonnadeliver you an RX seven.
Yeah.
And yeah, so they eat oil.
(37:21):
Come on.
Yeah.
I, I'll take Mazda in a moment.
I just want to go back to Toyota quickly.
Mm-hmm.
I just wanna say, you know, I haveslated the 2000 there or whatever,
that million dollar bond car, butI do wanna say the Toyota seven.
Sports car that they built,which wasn't really compared
to for only race domestically.
That is, that's one of the mostbeautiful cars ever designed.
(37:42):
Love that shape, have a little model.
Oh, well it's just like a wing with a,with a big wing on a sticks behind it.
Yes.
The white one.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a great car.
Obviously.
I've raced that in Grand.
It's a great guy.
Yes.
So, so we're, we're gonna, and, and thera in Fast and Furious and all that, you
know, Toyota, that's credit where, uh,where credit is due with, uh, with Toyota.
(38:04):
And for you and for you.
Whipper snappers.
Carlos signs, the father signsrallied with Toyota, didn't he?
With those?
Oh yeah.
Sika GT fours.
That's the one.
And, and younguns, you can spotthe GT four 'cause it's not
got, just got the hood scoop.
It's got the hood scoop with the hole.
Mm-hmm.
In the side for the intercooleror, or whatever it was, wasn't it?
(38:27):
Yeah.
And the extra exhaust at the back.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Cracking the GT fours.
And of course that Sega virtual rallygame of course, which was in many an
arcade, two players sitting side by side.
One of them was a ska GTfour was, was it VV vr?
Rally v Dreamcast.
Ever drive a real GT four.
No, I would've liked to have done,I never drove a real GT four.
(38:49):
I, I mean, would that oneof those, or an intergra?
I'd probably have the intergra.
I've had to choose.
Oh, yeah, me too.
I didn't last after the time.
I'm not as, I'm not as excited about thoseIntergra, I mean, I've already said that,
but like if I compare how I feel aboutthat versus something like Sierra XR four
I, or let alone a Sierra Cosworth agreed.
(39:10):
Mark, thank you for your time.
Pleasure.
Thank you.
Drive through.
This episode has been brought to youby Grand Touring Motorsports as part
(39:33):
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For more episodes like this, tune in eachweek for more exciting and educational
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John Summers is the motoring historian.
He was a company car thrashing technologysales rep that turned into a fairly inept
sports bike rider hailing from California.
He collects cars and bikesbuilt with plenty of cheap and
fast and not much reliable.
On his show, he gets together withvarious co-hosts to talk about new
and old cars driving motorbikes,motor racing, and motoring travel.
(00:35):
Good day.
Good morning, good afternoon.
It is John Summers,the motoring historian.
Today with Mark Gamy.
I always open with a little anecdote.
Don't I always come straightto the point now To kidding.
You know, keep a pace up and all.
We're always open with alittle anecdote this time.
Little anecdote, uh, markfeatures Ollie carting.
We, uh, went and looked at somegas carting over the weekend.
(00:57):
That all felt very, very real.
Up at Sonoma, but, uh, earlier inthe week, did hiss first like Grand
Prix at electric carting due toa, a weird set of circumstances.
Let me be candid with what they were.
Two sessions where they controlthese electric carts, they control
'em from the pits, how much powerthey've got, and so for the.
(01:21):
First two or three laps.
You can't really do a fast lapbecause they don't wind the power
up or the tires aren't warmer.
I don't know quite.
Anyway, whatever.
All these fastest laps arealways lap five, six, or seven.
Well, on this occasion, one ofthe carts ran out of battery,
so they came back into the pits.
And, uh, whilst they were inthe pit, um, and they came, so
(01:43):
they came back into the pit.
So, so there were two short qualifyingsessions, so he didn't really lay
down like the best that he could do.
And that meant that instead of beingin the A main for the actual Grand
Prix, he was like in the B but hewas on the front row of the bee.
Mm-hmm.
So at the start, the guy on polechops over on him and he touches
(02:07):
the back of the car, loses momentum.
Into the second turn, there's likea shoot down to the second turn.
It's a heaven three abreast with a guywho's third who's got a clean start
and of that turn, they get through thatturn cleanly, but out of that turn,
Ollie loses the drag race and is third.
(02:27):
Yep.
Pole guy, little guy couldn't havebeen more than seven or eight years
old, is disappearing off up the track.
Ollie is valiantly climbing all overthe back of the third place guy.
This goes on until lap three.
A clean pass is AC betweenlaps three and six.
(02:47):
Steady progress is made catching theleaders disappeared up the road and
for the last six laps, they weren'tmore than two feet apart all the time.
Super clean racing.
The other lad's parents likecouldn't contain themselves.
Like I couldn't be looking at thembecause it was that, like it was
that year that Manser was leading theMonaco Grand Prix, had to get tires,
(03:10):
came out and was all over the back ofcenter, and Cena just had to make no
mistakes and center made no mistakes.
But boy did mantle try hardand boy did Ollie try hard.
Diddy especially try hardwith the back markers.
But, um, this other lad crossed theline, a clear half a cart length,
a head volley, both of them didtheir fastest lap on the last lap.
(03:33):
Cool.
Two really cute podium ceremony and, youknow, parents shaking hands and general
sort of, uh, of warm feel all around.
And I missed the punchlinethere as I'm wont to do.
Was that.
In the park ferme afterwards, the firstthing all he did when he got out of his
(03:53):
car before coming over to us or removinghis helmet, he took his glove off and
shook hands with the guy who'd beaten him.
And I said that to himafterwards and on the way home.
He was like, well, yeah,I'd had a really good race.
You'd given me a really good race.
That's the best raceI've ever had at K one.
Awesome.
So, uh, you know, proud Parent, they'remore partly for the speed and the racing,
(04:16):
but of course also for the gentleman younurse, which, you know, feeds in than
to, uh, one wanting to, to do it further.
So, yeah.
I'd already planned to sacrifice mySaturday, taking him up to Sonoma to
see what was happening there, but I wasa whole lot more keen to do it on the,
on the back of the performance there.
And up at Sonoma, it wasthis series, KFX, carting.
(04:38):
It's definitely real.
These are like rotax carts.
I don't know how fast they go.
The, the stuff online saidthey do 75 miles an hour.
It didn't look that fast to me,it looked more like 35 or 40.
To me.
Maybe it's the nature of the circuit atSonoma, maybe they had the power turned
down for what was meant to be a test day.
But yeah, there were kidsOllie's age and size out there
(04:59):
on the track with like adults.
'cause there's three series, there'slike a junior series, like a, a teen
series and then a masters series forold fogies people older than uh, 32.
I was watching um, world Superbikes Today.
My brother-in-law, uh, has got aDiscovery plus login, which is Motor
(05:19):
GP and World Superbikes in the uk.
And other stuff they can burn.
All the rest.
As far as I'm concerned, it'smo g being one superbikes that,
that, that channel's four.
And the art of the block pass.
So you are not quick out, but you arequick in and you position your bike such
that the other guy can't come back out.
You afterwards might be a kartingthing as well, I suspect so you might
(05:44):
want to get him to have a littlelook 'cause you know what I mean?
Often that it's about carrying momentum,but for clean passes and stuff, sometimes
you have to park it on the apex andbe like, I'm lucky son, and then you,
you know, you are slow behind me out.
Maybe he wants to do a bit of watchinga bit of WSB or a bit of motor GP to see
how those boys are doing their passes.
You could probably learn a bit.
That's really good advice and, andreally useful because, uh, he's
(06:05):
really good with the, uh, with theracecraft and these carts are so wide,
especially the, the electric ones.
Now, he has found the way to passpeople is, is the way guys like.
Hamilton or, or path people thatyou come up and firstly they know,
they see how fast you come up.
And then secondly, you do that thingwhere you like stand off and you
(06:27):
look for an opportunity and whenyou see it, you lunge, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And, and he's done, uh, a reasonablejob at that over the years.
You know, like perfecting thatand not getting frustrated.
There was one race where he isreally frustrated behind somebody,
and I was like, that's the last racewhere you're gonna be like that.
You know, in future you're gonna fall offand come back at him and find another way.
(06:49):
Because what he won't do isalways, he's like Dale, Jr. He
won't, you know, he's not a ram.
Not at all.
No.
But selling the dummy can also be good.
I'm fast here.
I'm fast here.
And then being, especially because youremember, um, you remember that race
where Alonzo defended against Schumacherfor ages and Schumacher came in and came
out again, and Alonso did a ridiculouslyfast in lap in order to keep him behind.
(07:12):
And then for the last 15, 20 laps, hewas all over him and he had a faster car
and Alonzo would just be deliberatelylike quick down the straight and then
deliberately slow into the skis so Michaelcouldn't get him and then was boxed
up behind him and then was inevitably,you know, after car length later onto
the accelerator and couldn't get him.
And you're right, it's the sortof, I just have to drive perfectly.
(07:32):
You can't get me even thoughyou've got a faster car.
Because the, the fluff on Manselland center then was, if I recollect.
From people like James Hunt watching it.
He was never gonna gethim driving like that.
No.
He was all over him, but he wasn't.
He wasn't all over him.
He didn't try once Palla in the only placeyou've got and set everything up for that.
He was all over him trying to do itin unusual places and all that sort
(07:55):
of thing, which was super exciting.
I remember the Grand Prix.
But Hunt was like, nah, great,but you ain't winning it.
Although I think his alsofallback position was, it's
Monica, you ain't winning anyway.
Yeah, I mean, Ollie had six lapsand afterwards Ley discussed the
race mourned that he hadn't had.
The three that he would've had hadthere not been further valid point 50%.
(08:20):
You, you know what I mean?
I'm just like, I'm, I'm just at a stagewhere if I see him improving in every
race, I see his race craft getting better.
And if we are having fun.
It's just, dude, I totally agree andyou know, it's, what I didn't say
is what if I was like, I don't know,some sort of hardass race coach.
It's like, well, I'm being happy withlosings, like a loser's mentality
and like, you know, what do youdoing if fucking celebrate in second
(08:42):
fuck off with all of that shit?
I absolutely celebrate thesport in that aspect of it.
It should be fun.
So I went to Lodiyesterday and got the E 55.
It's the first time I think,since probably last August's run.
(09:06):
I went down Modesto and then came home.
So I put, I've probably put 200miles on it since, and it's.
Still probably needs a wheelbarrow.
It runs really well.
Rolled over 162,000 miles.
I drove the most awesome road, Californiaone 30 from Patterson West to the
(09:29):
James Lick Observatory and then downinto San Joe's, and then, uh, got
on the free whistle and drove home.
Basically this observatory overlooksthe valley from the view at the top.
You can look over the bottom of the bayand Silicon Valley, and I drove over
there right as the sun was setting.
(09:50):
It was not planned.
It was.
Absolutely awesome.
The road is way too long.
I mean, way too long foryou to do it regularly.
I have done it before onceon that whole CBR race bike.
When I took it out to storagein Sali, just because of
(10:12):
the way that the route was.
I must have, but it's too long.
It's like took.
Absolutely hours, and it switchbackswith sheer drop off, so you don't
want to be doing it at night.
It's gravel roads, but it's,it's also stop for a P at
the side of the road, right.
Not only do know cars comeby, but there is no sound.
(10:36):
And you're like, wow, I'm inthe Bay Area, but I'm not.
So that California one 30 was, wasreally a fine, but my other thought was,
so that's the E 55 running perfectly.
Not sure if we talked aboutthis before, but a colleague
Dana's at work has, uh, 2019.
E 63 s wagon.
(10:57):
Lovely car.
You say probably was before itneeded a new motor at 40,000 miles.
What'd he do to it?
Well, that's your thought, isn't it?
It came from Carvana.
It was used, it was, you know, certifiedif that means anything from Carvana.
The point is, this is not thefirst of these incidents with
(11:20):
these recent E 63 motors.
I'm not s slate in Mercedes particularly.
I am just saying that I donot believe modern cars.
Are being made with the same, orcars for the last 10 years have
been made with the same integrity ofthose that have been, that were made
(11:41):
in the, at the turn of the century.
I used to struggle before upuntil this last Pebble Beach.
If you'd have said to me, PeteCarr is the year 2000, I'd
have said, no, it's the 1960s.
I'm almost now agreeing with the EdBullions and the 40 somethings and
when I said that to Ollie for Ollie,it's like, it's obvious, right?
(12:03):
But think of it, this is my, uh, you know,I'm more of an older generation than me.
We understand why the GTO'sthe most valuable car.
We even kind of get Dusenberg, theEd Boian 40 something generation.
They.
See McLaren's as awesome and theykind of get the GTO 'cause they kind
of get that previous generation.
(12:25):
This is my, uh, conjecture.
Yeah.
But I can, I can sort of go with that.
I mean, it's, it's, it's peakcar 2000 that's the question.
I I, it, it would what's peak car?
I mean, it's like peakcar in what category?
I mean, because they can't all bethe same in the sense that, you
know, if McLaren F1 is peak car,if you like, in terms of supercar.
(12:45):
Or ultimate car if you want.
You know, that's not an everyday car.
I know it could be used everyday, but it's not practical.
You know, you need to, you need other carsif you're gonna have something like that.
So then you want a peak car in your, Iknow, hot hatchback territory or peak car
in your saloon car territory you want.
So there's a bunch ofhorses for courses here.
The best car I've everowned is that 2007 Nissan.
(13:06):
Nissan three 50 z. It was the bestcar in terms and I for this is the
best car for another, for Stu, mymate who's owned one as well and
has owned a bunch of other stuff.
He would, well, last time I spoketo him, he said it was still the
best car he'd ever bought as well.
And he's had Tvrs and all sorts of stuff.
And I think what I'm saying thereisn't so much, it's the best
car is there's a balance for me.
A bit like I was looking, some oldphotos that we'd taken on holiday,
(13:28):
like in the US on road trips andstuff, but in the very early ones and
the camera phones aren't up to it.
So the pictures you've got from therewere taken on the same sort of like,
uh, spring day, beautiful sunshine,you know, out and about in the nature.
So there's great light, but the picturesjust aren't as good a res. And I
think it's the same with cars as well,in terms of the overall experience,
because for me, what did that have?
(13:50):
It had basic traction control.
A nice stereo and just reallygood rear bias, mechanical grip.
Even by that, when we were coming, Ithink we were coming off the M 50 bit
up outta whale, under the roundaboutand the M five and then on the up ramp
on, so we were coming on from nineo'clock and then going round and then
going onto the m, the M five, goingsouth towards Bristol at six o'clock.
And I remember it was late at night.
(14:10):
It was, it's a well lit, really widesort of three name wide piece of, um.
A road or two lane might atleast there was nobody there.
And I came round it pretty quick on the,in on, coming into the roundabout 'cause
you've got a massive long sight line.
There's nowhere there was able tocome onto the throttle really early.
'cause it's uphill on the,on the, on the on ramp.
You were surprised athow early and how hard?
I could and, and committedly I could comeonto the throttle and just stay on it.
(14:33):
The Sierra was a, wasa, was an amazing car.
I didn't have the horses or, but hadfundamentally honest performance,
honest sort of chassis characteristics.
But that is that taken to anothersort of the exponential up level of
usable, everyday practical, not eatingyou at the petrol tank delivering
you, you know, 300 plus horsepower.
Although, geez, the geezersthem, modified them for me.
(14:53):
Reckon they've never producedactual 300 horsepower.
But it was a chunky toy power.
And it really sort ofgave you what you want.
So again, you can go from thereand the earlier back you go, you
start to lose some of the aids.
So how much aids do you want?
Do you want to cater 'emfrom the 1950s with nothing?
Or do you want everything like todaywith parking assist and lane assist and
fucking ass wipe assist and all the otherbullshit that you have to turn off on,
(15:17):
off every time you get in the fucking car?
There's a happy medium somewhere.
And I think it's verypersonal what that is.
Yeah.
Well, and and peak car you are rightis somewhere in the middle of that.
And I guess it's togglingto where that is.
Course the car I had throughout the timethat you add that Nissan three 50 is
that, oh one bullet Mustang that I'vedone sort of similar miles in that you,
(15:38):
well, I've done 170,000 miles of madness.
Probably not, no, not asmany as you've done in there.
Um, I've done about 75.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've done a lot more in that Nissan.
Interestingly about theclaimed 300 horsepower not
being in real 300 horsepower.
I remember when, when we did a GrandCanyon drive, not long after I had
(16:00):
the Mustang, and I remember youcommenting then that the seat of the
pants feel was not a million milesaway, which I'd expected it to be.
'cause that was as stated.
2 75 horse.
So I expected that to beless than the Nissans.
And I wondered if it was a bitdown to the V eight talk with that.
Yeah, it could be because I, I thinkthat was on the trip when we went
(16:21):
to the, was it the Southern Rim job?
Grand Grand Canyon.
It, it was, yeah.
Yeah.
I, I actually have someone, I dunno wherethey are, I have photos from, from that
trip, but I remember picking you up atthe airport and driving out of the airport
and being like, fuck Vegas, and findinga pizza place on the edge of Vegas and
eating pizza on the trunk of the carbefore the adventure commenced my own
(16:44):
comment on there in the Grand Canyon.
Southern Jo.
Having done both banks, if you like,the southern rim is better 'cause
you can drive along it for a bit.
Yeah.
Whereas Northern Rim, it's pretty,but you have to drive along a
bullshit slow, windy road that couldbe good, but you know, it's dead.
Endy turnaround stuff.
The bits before are quitepretty, especially coming
(17:04):
over the hills and stuff.
It's like you get there, you walkthrough and there's loads of like, you
know, tat for sale and then you getto view it and then you go away again.
Whereas Southern Rim job,you could drive around.
Um, hidden joke there obviously, but uh,you could drive around for like miles
and stuff and get your own sort of hangon the edge, just chill out on your own
quiet Grand Canyon rather than having toshare it with thousands of other people.
(17:25):
Well, of course, the other thing we didon that trip, which I've forgotten all
about was, uh, the helicopter flight.
Oh yeah.
And, uh, uh, we should say this, thatas lovers of Duns and Dragons and,
uh, and yeah, my own d and d campaignvery much based on Robert E. Howard
and Kona, the barbarian, um, for thehelicopter to dive into the Grand Canyon
(17:46):
and it'd be playing the music fromCannan the Barbarian at the same time.
That really was a, uh, that reallywas a me memorable moment, wasn't it?
Yeah, that was cool.
Uh, a memorable moment.
Ah.
But yeah, we were on peak car whenwe, before we, uh, wandered off into
dragons and the uh, and the Grand Canyon.
We were on peak car.
Yeah, but I, alright, so, but,but let's come back to where Peak
(18:11):
Car isn't now, is it For sure.
No.
I mean, I guess, but didwe think of that in 2000?
I wonder if we did, because back in 2000,if you'd have asked me what I wanted, like
you could have anything, what would youI'd have, I'd have said a gun mail M five.
Yeah.
I mean, I think you what?
You like me like most motoring people,if you're honest with it yourself.
(18:31):
Would probably, there would be someunderlying favorites, some sort of, you
know, ACD CS and Slayers and stuff thatstay with you permanently, if you like.
But there's also gonna be anew favorite every 18 months as
well, in a greater, less extent.
'cause, you know, yeah, yeah.
You would say that.
But I think you would'vealso said at one point.
Di Ablo SV in orange and stuff like that.
(18:52):
I still might say that.
Well, exactly.
Probably.
And again, it's difficult, isn't it?
Because like modern days,you could absolutely argue.
I watched Chris Harris's YouTubechannel's review of the F 80,
the new Ferrari Ultra car, and Ithink I sent it to you in Newton.
If you haven't seen it, goto YouTube and watch it.
It's one of the best drone shot videos.
(19:15):
I've ever seen of stuff.
The new drone pilot he'sgot is something special.
He's rinsing it around fiorano inmassive tail slides and the drone
is hovering 20 feet above the reartailpipe as he is following it
and following him through corners.
The final shot for me, the PAresistance, and I saw that you on this.
Chris, if I have a meteor, youI'll shake your hand for it.
(19:35):
His final review of the car is himstanding and it's, it's a shot that's
obviously Ferrari have told them about.
They know about in the hills.
Where you can get out and have the carand just the beautiful Italian hillsides
behind with nothing else much there.
And the whole video, it's like a twominute sign off where he talks about
the car and the drone flies in aperfect circle all the way round him.
(19:56):
So you never see any camera people.
He's just talking to the camerathe whole time turning and talking
to the drone all the way round.
And it's a really beautifully, thewhole thing is just up personified.
But if you take that car.
I don't like the looks of it much.
I think it's a bit ugly.
It doesn't win in against McLaren.
W one in the, you know, the 10-year-oldboy poster stakes is losing hands down.
(20:16):
But Harris's review, and I've seen,I've read a few others, is that it
is unbelievable that they have takenwhat is essentially a, a hypercar
and turned it into something youcould genuinely, if you were.
Ross Perot's, Nepo baby.
Spend all your time driving around him andmaybe that's why it's not so good looking
so that you can get away with that.
That's so much tech.
(20:37):
I mean, it's gonna have a20,000 mile service in the book.
So much tech.
It's gonna have a 20,000 mile.
What?
No, no.
I say it's not gonna have a 20,000mile service in the book, is it?
There's so much tech.
Everything in it istech and tech and tech.
But that's too much for me.
Well, where, where do you pair back to?
Because, you know, I think you wouldaccept that the go-karts and the
caters and the sort of re, you know,the sort of cars of our childhood, if
(20:58):
you like, where TCS quo, what I mean?
No, what's that?
Well, I, I remember when Traction Controlfirst came out feeling like it was.
Somehow not the real thing.
It was almost like, it was like adifferent version of automatic, it was
very similar to automatic transmission.
It was like you weren't reallyinvolved, but it was also, it was
(21:19):
like, it was almost like, I tell youwhat, it was the beginning of your
mom riding with you in the car, andso are you sure you wanna do that?
Just slow down there.
It was the beginning of that, wasn't it?
It really was.
It, it, it's sort of been therepassively before with seat
belts even with Understood.
But it really came with traction control.
(21:42):
Uh, the whole notion thatit could be switched off.
I was relieved the fact that itcould be switched off 'cause it meant
you could still smoke the tires.
I also thought of how sort of pointlessit was, and it frightened me that the
only reason you could switch it off wasbecause they knew that people like us
liked to burn the tires and they knew thatthe motoring rider would slate the cars.
(22:05):
And therefore people wouldn'tbuy them if they left that off.
If, if that was how we felt about tractioncontrol, where the fuck have we got it?
Like, fuck it off.
Well, yeah, but I will say, and and I,I, I, you could, I'm, I'm not saying I
feel like that about traction control.
No, no, no, for sure.
But I drove a piece of freeway justyesterday where as I came onto it, I
(22:27):
was like, oh, there is an undulationin the middle of this OnRamp because.
In the Mustang with traction control andterrible tires and a slightly damp road.
I had a moment where the tractioncontrol saved me, and this was, this
is a long time ago, five years ago.
I was driving over to Lodi.
It was whilst I was living here,it wasn't ages and ages ago.
(22:48):
It was fairly recently.
You know, the tires that were bald, I'veonly just come off the car kind of thing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but it was a while ago.
On the car ball for a really long time,I should say not bald, but just, you
know, you could see the tread patternand kind of feel it, but not completely,
you know, it was like, it was like, and,and it's rear ties and it's a Mustang
(23:08):
and you expect it to be a bit loose,and I drive slow and all of that, right?
So, and the ones at the front havegot good tread for the aquaplaned, and
that's the way I, I tend to structure.
The, uh, rear wheel drive carsthat I have, but, uh, well, I
was going somewhere with that.
TCS saved you.
Oh, undulation.
Yeah, dude, I can, I can ul Well,ululation live rear end the TCS and,
(23:31):
and the thought was that in a foxMustang, the previous generation, the
same car basically, but just with adifferent body, I would've bloody spun.
Dude, I mean, when I, we drove, we,we, on my stag dude, when we went to
the berg gr I left the TCS off on,and when we went out for the first
lap, and you remember how wet it was,I had Matt in the car and on about
(23:53):
corner 10 or 12, you know, we threwthat first little twisty complex, the
back step by about 18 inches, two feet.
And I remember thinking I'm, I wasgoing slow enough that I didn't
think that was gonna happen.
And it just sort of stayed out.
And I remember thinking,don't overcorrect.
Just don't overcorrect.
I don't want any snapbackshit, don't overcorrect.
And it came back in and I rememberthinking at the time, where were you TCS?
(24:15):
I think to be fair, TCS was going,saving your ass right there.
You know, it just eased out of the gas.
I was ca on the gas.
But having that safety net is quite nice.
And on the flip side, the only thingI would say is if you look at bikes.
Anything that goes off road, if it's gonnabe serious off road, you need to be able
to turn the traction control off anyway.
And you need to be able to turn thea BS off often if it's gonna be a
(24:36):
proper dirt bike O off the road.
So they have to be switchable.
And if you look at the other endof the scale on the latest Pali
V four s. Crazy ape shit, trackweapon, which you can obviously,
you know, buy and drive on the road.
Um, 'cause that's motorbikes, it's goteffectively sort of Ducati's answer,
which I, as I recollect Ferrari's atside slip control sort of thing, where
(24:57):
you can have the it so that comingonto the gas straight, you can just
rip the gas and if you get a littlebit of slide out, shimmy, it's like,
yeah, no problem guy, I got you.
It's just delivering.
Its 230 horsepower, like band's eye style.
Anyway, as you get onto your heavenscent Track day at Magie, so you
can deliver thrills with it as well.
(25:18):
I accept that that isn't really relevantto cars so much, but I wouldn't be
surprised if, well, the Ferrari willcertainly have, so you see what I mean?
It is just in bikes, it's somuch more accessible cash wise
for everyone it was ever this.
But yeah, I mean look, safety AIDSbroadly cool nanny state aids broadly
shit, and they're always gonna overlap.
And regulation in the EU hascertainly pushed us to more one way.
(25:40):
So, yeah, I'm less and lessinterested in anything new.
The only car I can think of in the lastfive or six years that I've thought I,
or you know, more than that probably nowthat I actually, yeah, more than that.
'cause they're one second generate now.
But I thought I would genuinely like that.
It's been, come out, it's pretty cool.
Was from, of all people Toyota andit's the Yaris GTR, which is the
little paired down two seat, well, twoplus two 'cause like the rear seat.
(26:02):
So like the roof's been squished down.
Four wheel drive, rally version of the,of the, of it with like 280 horsepower.
That the press and I look likethe look of and the reviews
were all five star reviews all.
That's kind of exciting 'cause it'sagain, taking the tech and turning
it into sort of exciting scuba evofrom our youth kind of excitement.
(26:23):
Four wheel drive trickery for you togo faster on B roads in wet whales.
That appeals to me.
I like the idea of that.
Although whales is increasinglybecoming a 30 or 20 zone car
carpet teared across the country.
So, you know, maybe, maybe not Wales,you still have the M two or is that gone?
Another curse.
It's going soon.
So I've got the the last coupleof bits to do it to get done.
(26:45):
Then I can just get short of it.
Oh, that's the other thingabout this new place.
It's got a little late, they gotgravel bit path down the side of the
house with a side gate and a garage.
I mean, at a push.
I reckon I could get six cars onthe drive and one in the garage.
Your neighbors will love you.
Well, but the thing is like, itdoesn't impinge on them 'cause
(27:06):
down the side of our house.
Dude, let's do this.
Flipping hot hatches.
Yeah, yeah.
No, we should.
I, I did on this pod a what should Ibuy from 25 years ago, we were talking
about peak car being 25 years ago.
There is a market forthese hot hatches and.
I believe that cars and bids andso on, they've done the T. They're
(27:29):
all excited about the Euro spec,Mercedes and Volkswagens and all that.
We don't need to do that.
Go to France, sniff me out a X GTS and.
4 0 5 MI 16, four by fours.
Sniff them out for us.
Fill a shipping crateand I'll sell 'em here.
Why don't you, because I'vetime at the moment in terms
(27:51):
of searching for stuff online.
Why don't you dig out that spreadsheetwe've got, I've got it somewhere.
Where we scoped out like bestcars to buy from eras and stuff.
And then let's just highlight the sort ofstuff we're gonna search for because I can
just like use it as a sort of spreadsheet.
If we share it up on the link thing.
Yeah, we can just use it as like stuffwe find and just shove costs in there.
And I mean, I'm not in any financialposition to buy anything at the
(28:13):
moment, but I mean, I am availableas an agent to perform these tasks.
So if we have the information, then wecan take a decision from there, can't we?
Because I think there's gonnabe some stuff that we think
will be there that won't.
Uh, and I think it's gonnabe idiosyncratic stuff that's
our best win, if I'm honest.
You know, again, and also the onewhere there was a lot of them, so
like Cleo one seven twos, Cleo oneeight twos, those sort of things.
(28:36):
There was a lot of those things, youknow, and they were cracking hot hatches.
They were always like fourand a five star hot hatches.
And they're small and cute andthere's enough of them that
you can get parts for them.
Whereas I think finding things like 3 09, 2 0 5, 3 0 9 GTIs, they've all gone.
You are too late for that.
But, and I think even now you probablyfind stuff like, you'll still find
the dogeared 1 8 2 trophies andthings like that, but they're all
(28:59):
still gonna be like 15 grand now.
Whereas I think the standard one eighttwos, or maybe even if you can find one
a, 1 8, 2 cup, those things you can,and you could always remember, you could
always do the cup chassis on the standard180 2 of was like a 1500 quid option.
So if it was selected, it's selected.
And that was the big uplift.
That was why it was the uplifton my one, that trophy I had,
which was a fucking brilliant car.
See, I think.
(29:20):
Here's a, here's a sweet spot.
There is a flip side to, you know how inSweden, they don't care whether the muscle
car's got two doors or four doors, whereashere in America, like a four-door car's
always a parts car, whereas they just havea completely different attitude at home.
The difference between a Fiat Strata 1 05 TC and one 30 TC is nine and day right.
(29:44):
It really matters.
The difference between an XR threeI and a. RS Turbo is huge here.
That difference, there's not the same.
And what I'm struck by the carsand bids guys, they like the
Basey ones, a 4 0 5 diesel wagon.
Nobody's ever seen one of those before.
(30:04):
That PDI motor never goes wrong,which Americans absolutely love the
notion of the thing that, you know,that would be, that's interesting.
Yeah.
Those kind of cars would be somethingthat Now the challenge, the challenge
with, with all of the things that Iknow about, of course, is it all exists
in this sub five grand marketplace,and I think shipping wise, by the
(30:26):
time you paid for the flat costsof, you know, the shipping and the
importation fees and that kind of stuff.
You need to be looking at 10, 15,20 grand cars rather than 500.
I mean, realistically, if you bought afive grand car and shipped it, you're
gonna need to sell it for 10 to 12.
But they don't exist over there.
Yes, yes.
(30:46):
So I think you could.
Realistic.
Yes.
The only way you can justify that kindof value is if yours is the only one.
That's why once I saw TVs on cars andbids, I was like, I, it's over now.
It needs to be something weird.
Like, you know, per, people have Pergofive oh fives here, so like a 4 0 5
wagon, you know, something like that.
(31:07):
Diesel, all of that isn't that.
There's the European website.
Of used cars where you can surflike across Europe, Europe wide.
It's like auto trade for Europe.
I can't remember the name of the app.
I'm looking at it on my phone now.
Auto Scout 24.
It's like yellow highlighted than,then it says Scout 24, but on.
So yeah, that's like Europe wide.
(31:29):
And for an Amer for Americanmarket, that's better 'cause
they're left hand drive cars.
Well yeah, absolutely.
How old do they need to be?
25 years.
Yeah, because everything's gonnago the way of minis, isn't it?
You know, the way classic minisare like, you can't fucking look
at one for less than five grand.
(31:50):
And you were like, what?
I remember when those bitsof shit were like 500 quid.
The other thing with 'em is,is they all get gussied up
in a totally unrealistic way.
Everyone you look at has got like some Gjaw on it that it didn't originally have.
Don't look like they look like imper.
This is a pet peeve for mine.
(32:15):
It is a bit like oldPeter Mullin, isn't it?
Who did the big gatis?
Like other people haddone the Italian cars.
You're not gonna touch theGerman factories for their
own collections of cars.
But the French stuff, that was anopen field and because Reno and per.
I've sort of been here buthaven't been here for ages.
There's a sort of enough of a thing there.
(32:37):
Okay, so there's a bunchof clear Williams's.
I did it by price, height, or low,and they're all in the 25,000 euro
range, but there's a bunch of them.
If you could make money knocking outCle Williams' in the US for, say.
40 to 50,000.
Then there's a bunch wicked shipover that feels pretty steep.
It is a limited addition Uberlike hot hatch of the hot hatch.
(33:00):
Yeah.
I don't know why.
I'd have to see what the, what Americansare paying for Delta into grows.
They're that horse that's alreadyleft the building, so to speak.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I understand.
It is funny with those Delta Integral,you know, I don't wanna be funny
or offend people and there's, youknow, I bloody love Lanier and I
just wanna say that Divvy book,Lanier at the Center is probably the
(33:23):
single best car book ever produced.
I, I mean that absolutely.
Jeffrey Goldberg, the books like $200.
Spend it.
If you love car books, do LioLancer at the center is, is
really, I love Lancer, right?
I mean, skyline or intergra.
I mean, are you kidding me?
Pasti or steak dinner like the pasti.
(33:44):
Nice if you're hungry on thestreet in the rain, but thanks.
I'll sit in with a steak dinnerand I will have red wine with it.
Thank you very much.
You know, that's how I'm,how I feel about skylines.
I mean, then have the best interior.
It's maybe a bit of a, you know.
Toby's pub kind of estate.
They're so cool.
Guidelines, they're so fucking cool.
Which era?
Which era is yours?
(34:05):
Then if you have just won the lotteryand my son has said to you, I'm probably
doing an R 34 or something like that,I love the Ken Mary's, but in this
instant, if it was my money, I thinkthe R 30 fours are so undervalued.
So undervalued.
R 30 threes are as well.
It's always been tough tofind a clean one, isn't it?
But like still, who cares?
(34:26):
I, I mean, agreed To me,it's like steelworth.
I want one that has a story andthat's been done in a tasteful way.
If it was wrecked.
Years ago, and if now it's been rebuiltand inspected and at shows, and you
know, I can see how the shut lines are.
I'll take that car over the Oh no stories.
(34:47):
I, I, yeah.
No, I know what you mean.
You get so much more car foryour money if you do that.
Oh, agreed.
Yeah, I mean it's, it'sabout picking the right car.
I'm not saying I want sometasteless, modified thing and
there's plenty of those out there.
And then really Japanese doingtheir own thing, their own way.
Garum, it was, for me, it was thefirst sort of time they really
had sort of proper impact in cars.
(35:10):
You could argue other cars that one,the bond drove that he couldn't,
that Sean Connery couldn't, theyhad to have the roof down 'cause
his head wouldn't fit in it.
He was too tall.
Um, first million dollar Japanese car.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a cutest top cut.
I mean, you know, there's no,you, you rate that, do you?
Oh, it's pretty.
I don't know whether it'sany good, but it's pretty.
So this is the Toyota 2000 s or S2000, or, I mean, it's sort of the
(35:32):
same name as the Honda, but I can,that was the first million dollar
Japanese car that, believe it or not.
Yeah.
And, and you can see why.
It's just a, it's a pretty littlecar, but I wouldn't have one.
One.
It's a crown.
It's a crown in line six witha Yamaha cylinder head on it.
The wood interior wasdone by Yamaha as well.
So what I always say about thosewhenever I see 'em, is the best bits of
(35:53):
Yamaha, aren't they not Toyota, I mean.
Good for Toyota hiringYamaha, but Oh yeah, for sure.
And look, you know, people whosneer might sneer a Yamaha.
Remember Yamaha make pianos and they'resome of the most beautiful pianos.
Oh, sneering at Yamaha for that.
No, no, you're not.
I think other, anybody you might be,I'm saying the best bit of Toyota
is is the Yamaha motorcycle cylinderdad on that Toyota Crown motor.
(36:16):
It's, it's really, uh, and I guess I'vegot a soft spot for Yamaha in engines.
I never buy Yamaha motorcycles,but apart from the Zuma, which is
slightly accepted, prove the rule.
But you remember that black Fordmon, you remember it extremely well,
that we had, this had the Dira Tech Vsix, that was a Yamaha design motor.
That V six was a Yamaha design motorand that like had no oil in it.
(36:37):
We'd still rev to six grand and we putlike, you know, six and a half grand.
We put 6,000 miles on that carB. And, you know, rode it hard at
160,000 miles and that Yamaha motorwas just coming back for more.
So, well, I have plenty of time for,uh, for Yamaha, of course, the other
Japanese car from that period, right?
That I rate more than that.
Toyota is the Mazda Cosmo.
(36:59):
Do you know that car?
Rings a bell.
Yeah, it's a sort of swoopyscience fiction-y shape.
I know.
I was gonna say again, with Mazda, I,I've got space for Mazda in my life on
the basis of their ruthless, pursue allof like two totally different engine tech.
We're gonna do Kel engine.
No one else is gonna do it.
We're gonna do it anyway.
And then we're gonnadeliver you an RX seven.
Yeah.
And yeah, so they eat oil.
(37:21):
Come on.
Yeah.
I, I'll take Mazda in a moment.
I just want to go back to Toyota quickly.
Mm-hmm.
I just wanna say, you know, I haveslated the 2000 there or whatever,
that million dollar bond car, butI do wanna say the Toyota seven.
Sports car that they built,which wasn't really compared
to for only race domestically.
That is, that's one of the mostbeautiful cars ever designed.
(37:42):
Love that shape, have a little model.
Oh, well it's just like a wing with a,with a big wing on a sticks behind it.
Yes.
The white one.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a great car.
Obviously.
I've raced that in Grand.
It's a great guy.
Yes.
So, so we're, we're gonna, and, and thera in Fast and Furious and all that, you
know, Toyota, that's credit where, uh,where credit is due with, uh, with Toyota.
(38:04):
And for you and for you.
Whipper snappers.
Carlos signs, the father signsrallied with Toyota, didn't he?
With those?
Oh yeah.
Sika GT fours.
That's the one.
And, and younguns, you can spotthe GT four 'cause it's not
got, just got the hood scoop.
It's got the hood scoop with the hole.
Mm-hmm.
In the side for the intercooleror, or whatever it was, wasn't it?
(38:27):
Yeah.
And the extra exhaust at the back.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Cracking the GT fours.
And of course that Sega virtual rallygame of course, which was in many an
arcade, two players sitting side by side.
One of them was a ska GTfour was, was it VV vr?
Rally v Dreamcast.
Ever drive a real GT four.
No, I would've liked to have done,I never drove a real GT four.
(38:49):
I, I mean, would that oneof those, or an intergra?
I'd probably have the intergra.
I've had to choose.
Oh, yeah, me too.
I didn't last after the time.
I'm not as, I'm not as excited about thoseIntergra, I mean, I've already said that,
but like if I compare how I feel aboutthat versus something like Sierra XR four
I, or let alone a Sierra Cosworth agreed.
(39:10):
Mark, thank you for your time.
Pleasure.
Thank you.
Drive through.
This episode has been brought to youby Grand Touring Motorsports as part
(39:33):
of our Motoring Podcast network.
For more episodes like this, tune in eachweek for more exciting and educational
content from organizations like TheExotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring
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If you'd like to support GrandTouring Motor Sports and the Motoring
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(39:56):
Please note that the content,opinions and materials presented and
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