April 26, 2024 • 40 mins
Christopher Nolan's movie Oppenheimer captured the imagination of the nation as it dramatized the super-secret Manhattan Project that was responsible for creating the first atomic bomb. But what about the legacy of radioactive waste that the US weapons Development Program left across the United States? According to victims whose diseases were caused by exposure to US weapons development programs, the movie's oversight of the project's toxic legacy was an insult. Now a bill in Congress may help address some illnesses caused by nuclear weapons development. It may also recognize victims exposed to radiation who have long been overlooked, but it is, according to many, not enough and only a start when it comes to addressing devastating illnesses. On this episode of Breaking Green, we will talk with Justin Ahasteen, the Executive Director of the Navajo Nation Washington Office, about the history of radiation contamination on the Navajo Nation from uranium mining, the US government's lack of transparency, its failure to remediate radiation hotspots, as well as hopes for some relief when it comes to the reauthorization of the Radiation Exposure Compensation Act.
Justin Ahasteen is executive director of the Navajo Nation Washington Office. He has been awarded the Presidential Volunteer Service Award with Silver Distinction. Justin was appointed as Executive Director by President Boo Nygren in 2023. Ahasteen has significantly impacted federal Indian policy and indigenous advocacy, focusing on infrastructure, veteran affairs, social services, health and public safety for the Navajo Nation. His academic credentials include an associate's in applied science and public administration, a bachelor's of arts in justice studies with a public administration minor, and he is nearing completion of a master of legal studies in indigenous law.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve Taylor (00:00):
Welcome to Breaking Green, a podcast by
Global Justice Ecology Project.
On Breaking Green.
We will talk with activists andexperts to examine the
intertwined issues of social,ecological and economic
injustice.
We will also explore some ofthe more outrageous proposals to
address climate andenvironmental crises that are
(00:22):
falsely being sold as green.
I am your host, steve Taylor.
Christopher Nolan's movieOppenheimer captured the
imagination of the nation as itdramatized the super-secret
Manhattan Project that wasresponsible for creating the
first atomic bomb.
But what about the legacy ofradioactive waste that the US
(00:44):
weapons Development Program leftacross the United States?
According to victims whosediseases were caused by exposure
to US weapons developmentprograms, the movie's oversight
of the project's toxic legacywas an insult.
Now a bill in Congress may helpaddress some illnesses caused
by nuclear weapons development.
It may also recognize victimsexposed to radiation who have
(01:08):
long been overlooked, but it is,according to many, not enough
and only a start when it comesto addressing devastating
illnesses.
On this episode of BreakingGreen, we will talk with Justin
Ahasteen, the Executive Directorof the Navajo Nation Washington
Office, about the history ofradiation contamination on the
Navajo Nation from uraniummining, the US government's lack
(01:31):
of transparency, its failure toremediate radiation hotspots,
as well as hopes for some reliefwhen it comes to the
reauthorization of the RadiationExposure Compensation Act.
Justin Ahasteen is executivedirector of the Navajo Nation
Washington Office.
He has been awarded thePresidential Volunteer Service
(01:51):
Award with Silver Distinction.
Justin was appointed asExecutive Director by President
Buu Nygren in 2023.
Ahasteen has significantlyimpacted federal Indian policy
and indigenous advocacy,focusing on infrastructure,
veteran affairs, social services, health and public safety for
the Navajo Nation.
(02:11):
His academic credentialsinclude an Associate's in
applied science and publicadministration, a Bachelor's of
Arts in justice studies with apublic administration minor, and
he is nearing completion of aMaster of legal studies in
indigenous law.
Thank you for having me.
People's sovereignty and rights, justin Hosting.
Welcome to Breaking Green.
Thank you for having me.
(02:31):
You were appointed by thecurrent president of the Navajo
Nation, Buu Nygren, to be theexecutive director of the Navajo
(02:54):
Nation Washington office.
Could you tell us what is theNNWO, as it is sometimes called?
Justin Ahasteen (03:01):
Sure.
Well, first and foremost I'dlike to say hello to all of the
Navajo who are listening.
(Introduction in Justin'snative language).
(03:25):
So my name is Justin Ahasteen.
I'm the Executive Director ofthe Navajo Nation Washington
Office.
The Navajo Nation WashingtonOffice exists as an extension of
the executive branch of theNavajo Nation government within
Washington DC, serving almost asan embassy-type role for the
Navajo Nation.
(03:46):
We facilitate the communicationbetween the United States
government and the Navajo Nationgovernment.
We're established in Title IIof the Navajo Nation Code and
our office has been around sincethe late 70s, early 80s and
since then has been the primaryoffice that handles all federal
(04:07):
affairs between the nation andthe United States, maintaining
that uniquegovernment-to-government
relationship.
Steve Taylor (04:14):
And I believe the current and 10th president, Buu
Nygren, appointed you to thatposition, correct?
Justin Ahasteen (04:23):
Yes, president Nygren appointed me in January
of 2023, after he secured hisvictory against former Nez.
Steve Taylor (04:31):
And I think, wasn't that a 54% victory?
Not to get into politics toomuch, but I mean it was a
significant win for him.
Justin Ahasteen (04:40):
It was.
It was a win for theadministration.
I also work under the Nezadministration, so there's
certainly a shift, but overall,you know, I think we all have a
common goal of trying to betterthe lives of them.
Steve Taylor (05:00):
Your office is dealing with, and other people
in other parts of the countryare as well, but while I was
preparing for the interview, Ilearned that the Navajo Nation
is the largest Native Americantribe in the United States.
Could you help us understandwhat that looks like when it
comes to geography andpopulation?
Absolutely.
Justin Ahasteen (05:19):
So the Navajo Nation is the largest land-based
tribe in North America.
We have over 400,000 enrolledmembers, half of whom still live
on the Navajo Nation.
And the Navajo Nationencompasses about 27,000 square
miles.
It extends into the states ofArizona, new Mexico and Utah and
(05:42):
if you kind of want a sizecomparison, it's about the size
of West Virginia.
So our reservation, you know,is the largest of all tribes.
We make up about a third of theentire on-reservation
population for Native Americans.
Steve Taylor (06:02):
Wow.
And then there's.
You know, obviously, a lot ofhistory there, but one of the
things that you read about oftenis what's been called the Long
March of 1864.
I mean, could you give us alittle bit of a history of the
Long March?
Justin Ahasteen (06:18):
I know that's not what we're here to talk
about, but I think it's just avery important thing for people
(06:39):
to know about.
Problem in the southwest wasstarting to round up different
tribes.
So the Navajo were rounded upand they were marched several
hundreds of miles from FortDefiance to Fort Sumner, new
Mexico.
Along the way there was somesignificant hardship that our
people experienced.
You know, a good sizableportion of our population had
(07:02):
declined on the march and thenwhen we kept in captivity at
Fort Sumner and then beingplaced onto the Bosque Redondo
Reservation, there was also aperiod of hardship as the land
itself wasn't being able tocultivate any crops.
People were starting to starveand it just created a lot of
(07:25):
issues.
So a delegation of Navajoleaders that includes Barbensito
and Chiquanulito petitioned tothe United States to allow them
to return to our originalhomelands.
So General Shonien, who signedthe Treaty of 1868, agreed with
(07:46):
the Navajo that they have theability to return back to their
homeland, and we did that.
So there was a small section ofour original aboriginal
territory that was carved out inthe Treaty of 1868.
And since then we have beenable to recoup a large portion
(08:07):
of our Aboriginal territorythrough various executive orders
.
Now there are some issues withfractionation due to allotments
from the general allotment andwhatnot, but for the most part
we have retained most of ourAboriginal territory we have
retained most of our originalterritory.
Steve Taylor (08:24):
I did not realize that a lot of the original
territory was able to bereclaimed.
That's an exciting thing tolearn there.
But what we wanted to talk toyou about today, mr Ahasteen, as
Executive Director of theNavajo Nation Washington Office,
we wanted to talk about theRadiation Exposure Compensation
(08:47):
Act, reauthorization and how theNavajo Nation has been in large
part given short shrift when itcomes to the federal government
recognizing and compensatingtribal members who have been
sickened by exposure toradiation from US military
weapons development, toradiation from US military
weapons development.
Could you give us a briefdescription of what the
(09:07):
Radiation Exposure CompensationAct is and how the Navajo Nation
has a stake in thereauthorization process?
Justin Ahasteen (09:18):
Sure.
So in order to understand whythe Radiation Exposure
Compensation Act was firstenacted in 1990, we have to look
at the legacy of uranium miningas a whole.
Uranium mining became verypopular in the 1940s to help
support the Manhattan Projectdeveloping the atomic bomb
during World War II.
So a lot of the uranium thatwas extracted from different
(09:43):
parts of the globe and withinthe United States was used to
develop the atomic bomb.
That includes uranium that wasmined from the Navajo Nation.
Between 1940 and through theend of the Cold War there was
about 30 million tons of uraniumthat was extracted from the
Navajo Nation and within thatsame time period there's an
(10:06):
estimated total of about 60million tons that was mined
domestically within the US.
If you take that number, overhalf of the domestic supply of
uranium came specifically fromthe Navajo Nation.
Now, in order for the federalgovernment and essentially the
private companies after 1971, inorder for them to meet, the
(10:27):
demands on the labor forceprimarily consisted of Navajo
people, and we're talking abouta population that didn't read or
write or speak English verywell.
So they were told you know,pick up a hard hat, shovel and
go to work and you'll get paidand you'll have a great life.
Well, that didn't work out sowell for us.
(10:49):
As we had identified in the 70s, there was a huge rate in
respiratory illnesses and lungcancer, as well as birth defects
and birth deformities for a lotof children.
So the hospitals at the timewere like what is going on here?
And all of these NativeAmericans are coming into our
(11:10):
office and they have all thesame illnesses.
They've never smoked a day intheir life before and they've
attributed all of that to workin the uranium mining.
So we look at the legacy ofuranium mining.
It is a very dark legacy.
The federal governmentdeliberately withheld the
dangers of radiation exposurefor the workers that were mining
(11:34):
this and keep in mind, as weprogress through the 40s, into
the Vietnam War and the Cold War, people who served in previous
wars.
After they returned home theycontinued to demonstrate their
patriotic duty and they wantedto advance the United States'
(11:55):
nuclear narrative.
So they started working in theuranium mines.
After their military wasfocused, essentially poisoned a
lot of people, not just Navajo,but through atmospheric testing,
(12:17):
downwind sites and uraniummining they passed the Radiation
Exposure Compensation Act,which was then subsequently
amended in the year 2000 becauseof some shortcomings.
So this really is today'seffort in updating that to make
sure those who were initiallyexcluded from the bill were able
(12:43):
to receive benefits, and thisincludes a different
classification of workers whoworked at the uranium mines.
It also extends the periodbecause there was a cutoff at
1971.
It also extends the periodbecause there was a cutoff at
1971.
So anyone from 1971 to the lastmine closure on the Navajo
Nation, which was around 1990,is not covered under the current
(13:03):
program.
So that's really the stake thatthe Navajo people have in this
Because, again, a lot of theuranium that was mined
domestically came from our lands, but it was also our people
mining it.
There is a large portion of ourpeople who have been excluded
from the initial program.
There have also been areas thathave been affected by nuclear
(13:24):
testing, such as the TrinityTest Site, wam and some
processing facilities inMissouri and Kentucky and other
states as well, who wereinitially left out of the
Radiation Exposure CompensationAct program.
And what the program really doesis it provides a one-time cash
payout compensation to thosethat have been affected by
(13:45):
radiation exposure and it alsoprovides, for some participants,
medical benefits in order toreceive cancer treatment.
And for the Navajo peoplethat's really needed because the
Indian Health Service is notequipped to provide oncology
services.
It's really more so set up as aprimary care or preventative
(14:07):
care service or a diseasemanagement service rather than
specialty care.
So not having any cancertreatment centers on or around
the reservation, most people hadto seek their care driving two
hours one direction at minimumtwo hours one direction to
(14:29):
receive health care services.
Healthcare services Tuba CityRegional Health is the first
Native American tribally ownedcancer center and they do do
some screenings but it doesn'thelp the folks that are living
on the opposite end and theystill have to drive two, three,
(14:49):
maybe even four hours just tomake cancer treatment
appointments and it's veryexpensive.
On the Navajo Nation, economicdevelopment is lacking.
We still have areas withoutrunning water or electricity.
So expecting people to pay outof pocket and not have insurance
(15:10):
or not qualify because theNative American Health Plan
doesn't have oncology servicesor whatever the case may be,
they are essentially giving themessage that they just have to
sit home and wait to die, andthat's something that is really
unjust and it's something thatwe have continued to push and
just the sheer treatment of justour people specifically, who
(15:34):
have contributed so much in theinterest of national defense.
We served in World War II.
We utilized our language tosecure a victory in World War II
.
Even after that, we contributedto the Vietnam War, the Cold
War, both in a military capacityand a non-military capacity,
advancing the United States'nuclear agenda, and the only
(15:55):
things that we received isdisease and death.
And that's why this is soimportant to us is to try to
ensure that we provide a littlebit of comfort and justice to
those who have been adverselyaffected.
And this bill isn't going tocover everyone, you know.
We're going to be honest here.
It only covers the workers andthose who are affected by the
atmospheric testing, those whowere inadvertently affected
(16:18):
because the miners came homewith yellow dust or yellow cake
all over them and their childrenor their wives or their family
members were washing theirclothes in the local water
supply and have subsequentlybecome contaminated from that.
They're not covered under anyprogram and they're going to
continue to suffer from that.
But in the meantime we'reworking on addressing the
(16:40):
uranium miners and there'llprobably be a need for an update
in the future to address thosewho were inadvertently affected.
It's so interesting too, becausewith all of the information
that was being kept from theNavajo people.
There were also piles ofradioactive waste that were kept
(17:00):
and people were making theirhomes out of this radioactive
waste.
So people were literally livingin a house made out of
deuteronium tailings, and that'sreally affected a lot of the
people.
It's contaminated vegetation,livestock, again water supply,
so it's become a very big issue.
(17:22):
When the government firststarted uranium mining
operations, there were about 100mines on the Navajo Nation, and
when the uranium miningindustry really took off, we
went from 100 mines to over 500mines, and to this day all of
them have been abandoned.
Not a single one has beenremediated or cleaned up and
(17:46):
we're essentially just left withthe problems, and so that's
really the state we're talkingabout here.
We're really trying to push toreceive some measure of social
justice, especially to a classof people who have demonstrated
time and time again theirpatriotism for the country.
Steve Taylor (18:01):
To actually be building a home out of
radioactive material becausepeople are being kept in the
dark.
That is horrendous, that'sinsidious, that is horrendous.
Justin Ahasteen (18:21):
That's insidious, and will anybody who
built a home like that becompensated, or is it just the
minors?
As of right now, it is just theminors.
There isn't a program out therethat will compensate those who
are inadvertently affected.
I mean, even those who aresuffering from burst effects as
a result of radiation exposureare not compensated, and that's
a big problem.
Steve Taylor (18:40):
But if a minor can prove or demonstrate that they
have an illness that isrecognized as one caused by
radiation exposure, then theycan receive compensation and
help for their health exposure.
Then they can receivecompensation and help for their
(19:00):
health.
I think I was reading $75,000for workers participating in
nuclear weapons tests, $100,000for uranium miners, millers and
ore transporters.
That sounds like a lot of money, but for someone who is dealing
with some of these illnesses,health costs are just exorbitant
.
Justin Ahasteen (19:17):
Oh, absolutely.
It's a dropping in the bucketcompared to what people actually
spend on medical care just tostay alive.
I know some folks that arewithin our coalition who have
spent north of $3 million so farjust in cancer treatment alone
(19:38):
million dollars so far just incancer treatment alone and for
our people that's unheard of.
On the Navajo Nation Mostpeople just succumb to their
illnesses because they can'tafford medical care or they
don't have the insurance tocover that type of stuff.
There's a story of a man namedLeslie Bidet who served in the
Vietnam War and returned homeand worked in the uranium mine
and he was a disabled modern andwhen he was diagnosed with
(20:02):
respiratory illnesses he went toevery hospital he could think
of to receive treatment and wasturned away every time.
It was a miracle that onedoctor really saw something in
him and did everything he couldto assist him, and he was at the
(20:25):
last month of his life.
He wasn't expected to live pasta month and under the miracle
he was able to receive a doublelung transplant and I'm so
thankful that he's with us today.
He is sharing his story on theHill how there are no services
available to Native American onthe reservation he had to pick
(20:47):
up and move his life, to movecloser to the Valley and really
leave behind his culture, hisidentity.
In order to just survive, hisfamily had had to make
significant contributions.
A lot of them had to leavetheir jobs and move with him to
help support him, and Leslie isone of the very few lucky ones.
(21:09):
Not everyone is as fortunate.
Not everyone is able toovercome something like that,
and that's really the story thatwe're trying to highlight and
elevate.
People are literally waiting athome for some measure of
benefits, and we know thebenefits aren't going to cure
anything, but at least it'llprovide them some comfort for
the remainder of their days, andthen it's just the humane thing
(21:34):
to do.
Not being able to enjoy lifeand just sit there and suffer is
very hard, and it's hard on thefamilies who have to witness
that.
They sit there knowing thatthey're helpless, and it's
starting to create a lot ofmental health issues within the
family, literally watchingsomeone that they love die right
(21:57):
in front of their eyes andthey're not able to do anything
about it.
Steve Taylor (22:02):
And because they were mining something that they
didn't even know was dangerousand that information was
withheld.
Am I right in thinking that amember of the Navajo Nation
would petition the federalgovernment and present the case
to the federal government andthen get compensation directly?
Justin Ahasteen (22:24):
So the Navajo Nation doesn't receive any
benefits from the federalgovernment.
Everything is administeredthrough the Department of
Justice and there's a whole setof requirements that you have to
meet.
You have to demonstrate thatyou did work in the mines, and
that's really a problem forother people because these
mining companies did not keepmining records or when they went
into closure or bankruptcy theydestroyed a lot of these
(22:48):
records.
So those are not there anymore.
So this bill actually helpsaddress that, because there are
a lot of people who have beendenied benefits because they
can't get a social securityearnings statement because their
employee never reported thatthey were working or they were
on the payroll but yet they weredoing the work.
So this bill allows workhistory affidavits to help
(23:14):
supplement some of the requiredpaperwork in order for those to
receive benefits.
But even then, there's a wholelist of requirements that you
have to meet.
You have to have a medicalanalysis done.
Your medical record has toattribute your executive as work
related to uranium mining orbeing within a downwind vicinity
(23:36):
within a specified amount oftime.
So when Congress starteddebating this, senator Lujan and
Senator Crapo introduced theirversion of the Radiation
Exposure Compensation Actamendments and the Congressional
Budget Office came out with anastronomical number of $150
(23:56):
billion that it would cost thenation, when the original
program with all of itsrequirements over the last 20
years has only cost the federalgovernment less than $4 billion.
So we cannot see how expandingthis to those who need it and
(24:16):
extending the program for anadditional 19 years under the
Lujan-Cripo bill would have gonefrom a $4 billion advance to
$150 billion.
I honestly think CBO did somelazy math there, but it's
certainly not reflective of whois actually going to benefit
(24:38):
from this.
So when the RECA amendments wereincluded as part of the
National Defense AuthorizationAct in December to still the
Lujan CREPA bill, it wentthrough budget reconciliation or
conferencing, and they decidedto discuss this.
Obviously, the Republicans wereconcerned about the FBO score,
(25:00):
so we worked with them.
So we worked with them, we madesome concessions and we were
able to trim the hypothetical$150 billion down to a
hypothetical $50 billion andthat really cut the compensation
levels down.
It took out some of the medicalbenefits.
(25:21):
So it's not as good as theLujan-Crayfield bill, but it was
still something that we werewilling to support because it
did provide some benefits forthose who really need it, and
that was still not enough.
(25:41):
So the bill, the amendment, wastaken out of the National
Defense Authorization Act andCongress passed it.
So now Senator Hawley was ableto get this new reauthorization
bill, which was the negotiatedversion from the NDAA, onto the
floor for a vote and that passedwith significant bipartisan
support on the Senate it wasabout 69 to 30, I believe, in
terms of votes and it went overto the House.
(26:04):
Now it's just in there and wehave been putting Speaker
Johnson in terms of votes and itwent over to the House.
Now it's just in there and wehave been pushing Speaker
Johnson to bring this to thefloor for a vote and we don't
understand why it hasn't.
And we have less than fourweeks left of actual legislative
session left for them to passany bills and program expires on
June 10th.
(26:24):
So we have been continuing topush and it's really insulting
that our delegation from Utahhas made a claim that those who
have been affected adverselydeserve compensation, when they
are the ones not supporting thebill that Holly has introduced,
(26:44):
saying that, oh, the price tagis too high or we don't agree
that everyone should benefitfrom this.
And there was even a commentthat was made in some of our
meetings with the Utahdelegation that, oh, the
original would prepare all theUtahns so this doesn't really
benefit us anyway.
So that was really insulting.
It was really disheartening tohear and, as many people have
(27:07):
seen, president Nygaard come outpublicly disappointed with the
Utah delegation and we're hopingthat they will have a change of
heart and support thisexpansion.
Senator Lee, rep Malloy, repBurgess, mullins and Senator
Romney have all introduced asimple two-year extension bill
(27:29):
but that doesn't do anything foranyone.
That doesn't do anyone for thepeople that actually need it
have been excluded from theprogram and again, it's really
disheartening and we're hopingUtah will come around and do the
right thing.
Steve Taylor (27:41):
You mentioned President Nygren and making
public statements.
I read an editorial by him inTime magazine and it was talking
about the movie Oppenheimer andhow it ignored the collateral
damage and the harm to theNavajo Nation.
(28:05):
You know the building of thatdevice, the arms race, and I
know that I've heard fromdownwinders from some of the
testing.
You know they feel that theywere given short shrift in that
film as well and I know somepeople in St Louis who were like
(28:27):
you know what about the storyof all the waste and you know
from what you've told me.
You know the Navajo Nation issuffering the most with 500
abandoned uranium mines.
There was actually a spill, theChurch Rock spill.
Yeah, could you tell us alittle bit about that?
Justin Ahasteen (28:48):
Yeah, the Church Rock spill is the US
equivalent to the Chernobyldisaster and not a lot of people
actually know about this.
And we're the United States,where we like to claim we're the
greatest country in the worldand everyone should come here
because we're so great, but what?
We censor a lot of theinformation that could be public
(29:09):
knowledge.
We have had one of the worstradioactive spills in history
and nobody seems to care becauseit's on Indian land, it doesn't
matter, no one was affected.
It's on Indian land, it doesn'tmatter, no one was affected.
And that's really disheartening.
And it's something that we havetried to address and really
(29:31):
push to show, because that area,the land, it's not going to be
inhabitable for the next 80,000years.
It's insane and there are stillcommunities that live in that
area and people just don't seemto care and we don't know why.
Steve Taylor (29:53):
Do the children, do families and children?
They must know of it.
I mean how do you live withthat?
Is that my question?
I mean how does a communitylive with that?
Is that my question?
How, I mean how, how does acommunity live with that?
Justin Ahasteen (30:07):
So they've put up fences, they've tried to cap
off as much as they can, put upsigns.
Most people will say well, whydon't we just pick up and move?
Well, it's a lot easier saidthan done.
Um, where are they going tomove to?
A lot of these families areelders.
They don't have any place to go, they don't have a source of
income.
What are they supposed to do?
(30:28):
The cost of living nowadays,just in the city, is
astronomically high.
Where are these people going togo?
Just for children and youngadults, but the elderly?
There's nowhere to put them.
So we can't just pick up andleave.
(30:49):
So, unfortunately, people arejust stuck where they are and
they have to try to live as bestas they can.
And I think at this point thementality is I'll probably get
cancer at some point, so Ishould prepare for that, and
that's not how people should beliving their life.
And again, these are disastersthat have happened from the
(31:10):
negligence of the federalgovernment as well as these
private industries.
The federal government will tryto shift liability away a lot
of the time, but at the end ofthe day, it was the Department
of the Interior that was signingoff on these uranium leases and
urging the Navajo TribalCouncil to approve these leases,
and that was in the interest ofnational security.
(31:35):
And if it's in the interest ofnational security, then, as a
means of protecting those whohave contributed to that, we
should be focusing on providingthose levels of compensation.
We see all of this foreign aidgoing out to Ukraine, to other
countries they just passedanother $90 billion bill to help
(31:58):
support activity but not withinour own country, and again it's
a really big betrayal to thepeople who live in this country,
who have provided a lot in theinterest of national security,
and their voices are not beingheard and they're given the side
eye or they're saying it's tooexpensive.
Sorry, we did this to youwithout even doing any
consideration for having arequired pay-for, which is a
(32:29):
term that a lot of Republicansactually use is we won't support
this bill until you find anoffset or pay-for.
But we're not doing that with alot of these foreign aid
packages.
So why don't we go back andreinvest into our own people and
address the issues within ourown country before we start
worrying about what's happeningexternally?
(32:50):
Because if we can't take careof ourselves, we're not going to
be able to take care ofeveryone else, and we're already
at a point where our federalbudget we've had the highest
deficit in history and we're notbringing in enough revenue to
address that.
And now the interest of thegovernment, of the federal debt
is more than the GDP as a whole.
(33:11):
So we're in this really stickysituation.
This is not a handout, and Iwant to be clear.
This is not a handout forpeople who have been adversely
affected.
It's providing compensation.
It's providing a measure ofrecognition that, yes, we did
wrong by you and we're going todo everything that we can to.
(33:33):
We're never going to make youwhole, but we can get you a
little closer to that.
I mean honestly, if the UnitedStates were to just waive
sovereign immunity, we couldsettle this in the court and we
would probably be done in a weekwith a large judgment.
So the United States recognizesthat and I believe that's why
they passed the RadiationDisclosure Compensation Act
(33:55):
initially.
But at the same time, it's whyare we shifting our focus away
from domestic issues and sofocused on international issues?
There are people within our owncountry that are suffering.
The Navajo people, specifically, have suffered.
We still, a third of our people, don't even have running water
(34:16):
and electricity.
And this is America, you know.
We have a country within acountry and it's a third world
country.
So why don't we do everythingthat we can to make sure that
our citizens are keeping care ofthem, and that's really just my
thought.
Steve Taylor (34:32):
Yeah, our citizens are keeping score of them, and
that's really just my thought.
Yeah, and the Church Rockuranium spill was 44 years ago
and it was 94 million gallons ofradioactive waste spilling into
a river that runs across theNavajo Nation.
And your president, boo Nygren,wrote in the Time magazine
editorial that the movieOppenheimer came out, I think
(34:58):
four or five days after that44-year anniversary and still
nothing's been done.
In St Louis, dawn Chapman andDawn Chapman was she spoke very
highly of you and because I wastalking to her about the RICA
reauthorization and she told mewhat she had learned about the
(35:19):
Navajo Nation and how hard hitit is.
But they've been dealing withwaste, you know, for decades, 50
years.
It's from the Manhattan Projectas well.
It just seems to be everywherethat the federal government does
not want to address these pointsources.
(35:43):
They're still there.
They're still there in St Louisit's in people's homes.
Worse, yet on the Navajo Nationpeople are building homes out
of radioactive material.
It's just amazing.
And the fact that the movieOppenheimer didn't give a nod to
that, I don't know.
Some people found it offensive.
(36:05):
How about you?
Justin Ahasteen (36:07):
It is offensive and we were hoping Christopher
Nolan would have acknowledgedthat, especially as this is
going up for an academy awardand I believe the authors and
whatnot, um, they give a smallblow.
Uh, I think it's the end of themovie where it's like what do
we do with the land?
I would just give it back tothe indians, um, and I'm like
(36:29):
that's the extent of youracknowledgement towards Native
Americans.
So it is really disrespectful.
But there is a movie that is outthere it's from the 70s that I
think really highlights a lot ofthe issues that Navajo has
faced with forced relocation inthe 70s, as well as the natural
(36:52):
resource industry really boomingwith oil and gas and uranium
specifically and that's a filmcalled Broken Rainbow and it has
won an Academy Award itself.
I think it was a documentary orsomething like that years ago
and I invite people to watchthat to really understand the
(37:13):
issues and the people.
I mean a lot of the people whoare in that field are no longer
with us, unfortunately, but theydo have dissonance and those
areas.
The problems are very realtoday.
They're the exact same issuesand it hasn't changed in the
last 40 years and that's whatwe're really trying to address.
Steve Taylor (37:31):
And I know you're working hard at it.
I mean, I see your office andyour president quoted in a lot
of stories about RICA, theRadiation Exposure Compensation
Act.
It sounds like it's not enough,even if it were to pass, but
you know it's.
There has to be a recognitionand and obviously more needs to
(37:56):
be done.
But it it?
It sounds like uh uh, theNavajo nation feels that it's a
starting point at least.
Justin Ahasteen (38:05):
It is.
It's a starting point and it'sif it's passed, we'll be in a
better position than when wewere the day before.
Steve Taylor (38:15):
So I guess you live in Washington DC most of
the time as the executivedirector of the NNWO.
How is that, and how often doyou get to go back to the Navajo
Nation?
Justin Ahasteen (38:30):
So I always joke with my staff that this is
a job for single people, becauseyou really don't have time for
family or anything like that,because the issues are so grand
and there's just a lot of workto be done.
And you know, I try to do asmuch as I can, sometimes working
(38:51):
up until 2 am in the morningpushing out different things,
because it is a priority.
And that's why the presidentpressed me to be here, because
he knows that I will representthe nation here in DC and do the
best that I can to advance theinterests of the Navajo Nation.
I get home when I can.
My mother does get after mefrom time to time when I don't
(39:13):
call her, so I do the best thatI can to communicate with family
.
But overall it's a lot of work.
It's not really a lot ofdowntime, but I do my best.
I have a great team here thatis very well equipped and very
versatile and can really helpdrive a lot of these initiatives
(39:36):
, and I'm very thankful for that.
Steve Taylor (39:38):
Mr Justin Hostin, thank you so much for joining us
at Breaking Green.
Justin Ahasteen (39:44):
Thank you for having me.
Steve Taylor (39:46):
You have been listening to Breaking Green, a
Global Justice Ecology Projectpodcast.
To learn more about GlobalJustice Ecology Project, visit
globaljusticeecologyorg.
Breaking Green is made possibleby tax-deductible donations by
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(40:06):
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Welcome to Breaking Green, a podcast by
Global Justice Ecology Project.
On Breaking Green.
We will talk with activists andexperts to examine the
intertwined issues of social,ecological and economic
injustice.
We will also explore some ofthe more outrageous proposals to
address climate andenvironmental crises that are
(00:22):
falsely being sold as green.
I am your host, steve Taylor.
Christopher Nolan's movieOppenheimer captured the
imagination of the nation as itdramatized the super-secret
Manhattan Project that wasresponsible for creating the
first atomic bomb.
But what about the legacy ofradioactive waste that the US
(00:44):
weapons Development Program leftacross the United States?
According to victims whosediseases were caused by exposure
to US weapons developmentprograms, the movie's oversight
of the project's toxic legacywas an insult.
Now a bill in Congress may helpaddress some illnesses caused
by nuclear weapons development.
It may also recognize victimsexposed to radiation who have
(01:08):
long been overlooked, but it is,according to many, not enough
and only a start when it comesto addressing devastating
illnesses.
On this episode of BreakingGreen, we will talk with Justin
Ahasteen, the Executive Directorof the Navajo Nation Washington
Office, about the history ofradiation contamination on the
Navajo Nation from uraniummining, the US government's lack
(01:31):
of transparency, its failure toremediate radiation hotspots,
as well as hopes for some reliefwhen it comes to the
reauthorization of the RadiationExposure Compensation Act.
Justin Ahasteen is executivedirector of the Navajo Nation
Washington Office.
He has been awarded thePresidential Volunteer Service
(01:51):
Award with Silver Distinction.
Justin was appointed asExecutive Director by President
Buu Nygren in 2023.
Ahasteen has significantlyimpacted federal Indian policy
and indigenous advocacy,focusing on infrastructure,
veteran affairs, social services, health and public safety for
the Navajo Nation.
(02:11):
His academic credentialsinclude an Associate's in
applied science and publicadministration, a Bachelor's of
Arts in justice studies with apublic administration minor, and
he is nearing completion of aMaster of legal studies in
indigenous law.
Thank you for having me.
People's sovereignty and rights, justin Hosting.
Welcome to Breaking Green.
Thank you for having me.
(02:31):
You were appointed by thecurrent president of the Navajo
Nation, Buu Nygren, to be theexecutive director of the Navajo
(02:54):
Nation Washington office.
Could you tell us what is theNNWO, as it is sometimes called?
Justin Ahasteen (03:01):
Sure.
Well, first and foremost I'dlike to say hello to all of the
Navajo who are listening.
(Introduction in Justin'snative language).
(03:25):
So my name is Justin Ahasteen.
I'm the Executive Director ofthe Navajo Nation Washington
Office.
The Navajo Nation WashingtonOffice exists as an extension of
the executive branch of theNavajo Nation government within
Washington DC, serving almost asan embassy-type role for the
Navajo Nation.
(03:46):
We facilitate the communicationbetween the United States
government and the Navajo Nationgovernment.
We're established in Title IIof the Navajo Nation Code and
our office has been around sincethe late 70s, early 80s and
since then has been the primaryoffice that handles all federal
(04:07):
affairs between the nation andthe United States, maintaining
that uniquegovernment-to-government
relationship.
Steve Taylor (04:14):
And I believe the current and 10th president, Buu
Nygren, appointed you to thatposition, correct?
Justin Ahasteen (04:23):
Yes, president Nygren appointed me in January
of 2023, after he secured hisvictory against former Nez.
Steve Taylor (04:31):
And I think, wasn't that a 54% victory?
Not to get into politics toomuch, but I mean it was a
significant win for him.
Justin Ahasteen (04:40):
It was.
It was a win for theadministration.
I also work under the Nezadministration, so there's
certainly a shift, but overall,you know, I think we all have a
common goal of trying to betterthe lives of them.
Steve Taylor (05:00):
Your office is dealing with, and other people
in other parts of the countryare as well, but while I was
preparing for the interview, Ilearned that the Navajo Nation
is the largest Native Americantribe in the United States.
Could you help us understandwhat that looks like when it
comes to geography andpopulation?
Absolutely.
Justin Ahasteen (05:19):
So the Navajo Nation is the largest land-based
tribe in North America.
We have over 400,000 enrolledmembers, half of whom still live
on the Navajo Nation.
And the Navajo Nationencompasses about 27,000 square
miles.
It extends into the states ofArizona, new Mexico and Utah and
(05:42):
if you kind of want a sizecomparison, it's about the size
of West Virginia.
So our reservation, you know,is the largest of all tribes.
We make up about a third of theentire on-reservation
population for Native Americans.
Steve Taylor (06:02):
Wow.
And then there's.
You know, obviously, a lot ofhistory there, but one of the
things that you read about oftenis what's been called the Long
March of 1864.
I mean, could you give us alittle bit of a history of the
Long March?
Justin Ahasteen (06:18):
I know that's not what we're here to talk
about, but I think it's just avery important thing for people
(06:39):
to know about.
Problem in the southwest wasstarting to round up different
tribes.
So the Navajo were rounded upand they were marched several
hundreds of miles from FortDefiance to Fort Sumner, new
Mexico.
Along the way there was somesignificant hardship that our
people experienced.
You know, a good sizableportion of our population had
(07:02):
declined on the march and thenwhen we kept in captivity at
Fort Sumner and then beingplaced onto the Bosque Redondo
Reservation, there was also aperiod of hardship as the land
itself wasn't being able tocultivate any crops.
People were starting to starveand it just created a lot of
(07:25):
issues.
So a delegation of Navajoleaders that includes Barbensito
and Chiquanulito petitioned tothe United States to allow them
to return to our originalhomelands.
So General Shonien, who signedthe Treaty of 1868, agreed with
(07:46):
the Navajo that they have theability to return back to their
homeland, and we did that.
So there was a small section ofour original aboriginal
territory that was carved out inthe Treaty of 1868.
And since then we have beenable to recoup a large portion
(08:07):
of our Aboriginal territorythrough various executive orders
.
Now there are some issues withfractionation due to allotments
from the general allotment andwhatnot, but for the most part
we have retained most of ourAboriginal territory we have
retained most of our originalterritory.
Steve Taylor (08:24):
I did not realize that a lot of the original
territory was able to bereclaimed.
That's an exciting thing tolearn there.
But what we wanted to talk toyou about today, mr Ahasteen, as
Executive Director of theNavajo Nation Washington Office,
we wanted to talk about theRadiation Exposure Compensation
(08:47):
Act, reauthorization and how theNavajo Nation has been in large
part given short shrift when itcomes to the federal government
recognizing and compensatingtribal members who have been
sickened by exposure toradiation from US military
weapons development, toradiation from US military
weapons development.
Could you give us a briefdescription of what the
(09:07):
Radiation Exposure CompensationAct is and how the Navajo Nation
has a stake in thereauthorization process?
Justin Ahasteen (09:18):
Sure.
So in order to understand whythe Radiation Exposure
Compensation Act was firstenacted in 1990, we have to look
at the legacy of uranium miningas a whole.
Uranium mining became verypopular in the 1940s to help
support the Manhattan Projectdeveloping the atomic bomb
during World War II.
So a lot of the uranium thatwas extracted from different
(09:43):
parts of the globe and withinthe United States was used to
develop the atomic bomb.
That includes uranium that wasmined from the Navajo Nation.
Between 1940 and through theend of the Cold War there was
about 30 million tons of uraniumthat was extracted from the
Navajo Nation and within thatsame time period there's an
(10:06):
estimated total of about 60million tons that was mined
domestically within the US.
If you take that number, overhalf of the domestic supply of
uranium came specifically fromthe Navajo Nation.
Now, in order for the federalgovernment and essentially the
private companies after 1971, inorder for them to meet, the
(10:27):
demands on the labor forceprimarily consisted of Navajo
people, and we're talking abouta population that didn't read or
write or speak English verywell.
So they were told you know,pick up a hard hat, shovel and
go to work and you'll get paidand you'll have a great life.
Well, that didn't work out sowell for us.
(10:49):
As we had identified in the 70s, there was a huge rate in
respiratory illnesses and lungcancer, as well as birth defects
and birth deformities for a lotof children.
So the hospitals at the timewere like what is going on here?
And all of these NativeAmericans are coming into our
(11:10):
office and they have all thesame illnesses.
They've never smoked a day intheir life before and they've
attributed all of that to workin the uranium mining.
So we look at the legacy ofuranium mining.
It is a very dark legacy.
The federal governmentdeliberately withheld the
dangers of radiation exposurefor the workers that were mining
(11:34):
this and keep in mind, as weprogress through the 40s, into
the Vietnam War and the Cold War, people who served in previous
wars.
After they returned home theycontinued to demonstrate their
patriotic duty and they wantedto advance the United States'
(11:55):
nuclear narrative.
So they started working in theuranium mines.
After their military wasfocused, essentially poisoned a
lot of people, not just Navajo,but through atmospheric testing,
(12:17):
downwind sites and uraniummining they passed the Radiation
Exposure Compensation Act,which was then subsequently
amended in the year 2000 becauseof some shortcomings.
So this really is today'seffort in updating that to make
sure those who were initiallyexcluded from the bill were able
(12:43):
to receive benefits, and thisincludes a different
classification of workers whoworked at the uranium mines.
It also extends the periodbecause there was a cutoff at
1971.
It also extends the periodbecause there was a cutoff at
1971.
So anyone from 1971 to the lastmine closure on the Navajo
Nation, which was around 1990,is not covered under the current
(13:03):
program.
So that's really the stake thatthe Navajo people have in this
Because, again, a lot of theuranium that was mined
domestically came from our lands, but it was also our people
mining it.
There is a large portion of ourpeople who have been excluded
from the initial program.
There have also been areas thathave been affected by nuclear
(13:24):
testing, such as the TrinityTest Site, wam and some
processing facilities inMissouri and Kentucky and other
states as well, who wereinitially left out of the
Radiation Exposure CompensationAct program.
And what the program really doesis it provides a one-time cash
payout compensation to thosethat have been affected by
(13:45):
radiation exposure and it alsoprovides, for some participants,
medical benefits in order toreceive cancer treatment.
And for the Navajo peoplethat's really needed because the
Indian Health Service is notequipped to provide oncology
services.
It's really more so set up as aprimary care or preventative
(14:07):
care service or a diseasemanagement service rather than
specialty care.
So not having any cancertreatment centers on or around
the reservation, most people hadto seek their care driving two
hours one direction at minimumtwo hours one direction to
(14:29):
receive health care services.
Healthcare services Tuba CityRegional Health is the first
Native American tribally ownedcancer center and they do do
some screenings but it doesn'thelp the folks that are living
on the opposite end and theystill have to drive two, three,
(14:49):
maybe even four hours just tomake cancer treatment
appointments and it's veryexpensive.
On the Navajo Nation, economicdevelopment is lacking.
We still have areas withoutrunning water or electricity.
So expecting people to pay outof pocket and not have insurance
(15:10):
or not qualify because theNative American Health Plan
doesn't have oncology servicesor whatever the case may be,
they are essentially giving themessage that they just have to
sit home and wait to die, andthat's something that is really
unjust and it's something thatwe have continued to push and
just the sheer treatment of justour people specifically, who
(15:34):
have contributed so much in theinterest of national defense.
We served in World War II.
We utilized our language tosecure a victory in World War II
.
Even after that, we contributedto the Vietnam War, the Cold
War, both in a military capacityand a non-military capacity,
advancing the United States'nuclear agenda, and the only
(15:55):
things that we received isdisease and death.
And that's why this is soimportant to us is to try to
ensure that we provide a littlebit of comfort and justice to
those who have been adverselyaffected.
And this bill isn't going tocover everyone, you know.
We're going to be honest here.
It only covers the workers andthose who are affected by the
atmospheric testing, those whowere inadvertently affected
(16:18):
because the miners came homewith yellow dust or yellow cake
all over them and their childrenor their wives or their family
members were washing theirclothes in the local water
supply and have subsequentlybecome contaminated from that.
They're not covered under anyprogram and they're going to
continue to suffer from that.
But in the meantime we'reworking on addressing the
(16:40):
uranium miners and there'llprobably be a need for an update
in the future to address thosewho were inadvertently affected.
It's so interesting too, becausewith all of the information
that was being kept from theNavajo people.
There were also piles ofradioactive waste that were kept
(17:00):
and people were making theirhomes out of this radioactive
waste.
So people were literally livingin a house made out of
deuteronium tailings, and that'sreally affected a lot of the
people.
It's contaminated vegetation,livestock, again water supply,
so it's become a very big issue.
(17:22):
When the government firststarted uranium mining
operations, there were about 100mines on the Navajo Nation, and
when the uranium miningindustry really took off, we
went from 100 mines to over 500mines, and to this day all of
them have been abandoned.
Not a single one has beenremediated or cleaned up and
(17:46):
we're essentially just left withthe problems, and so that's
really the state we're talkingabout here.
We're really trying to push toreceive some measure of social
justice, especially to a classof people who have demonstrated
time and time again theirpatriotism for the country.
Steve Taylor (18:01):
To actually be building a home out of
radioactive material becausepeople are being kept in the
dark.
That is horrendous, that'sinsidious, that is horrendous.
Justin Ahasteen (18:21):
That's insidious, and will anybody who
built a home like that becompensated, or is it just the
minors?
As of right now, it is just theminors.
There isn't a program out therethat will compensate those who
are inadvertently affected.
I mean, even those who aresuffering from burst effects as
a result of radiation exposureare not compensated, and that's
a big problem.
Steve Taylor (18:40):
But if a minor can prove or demonstrate that they
have an illness that isrecognized as one caused by
radiation exposure, then theycan receive compensation and
help for their health exposure.
Then they can receivecompensation and help for their
(19:00):
health.
I think I was reading $75,000for workers participating in
nuclear weapons tests, $100,000for uranium miners, millers and
ore transporters.
That sounds like a lot of money, but for someone who is dealing
with some of these illnesses,health costs are just exorbitant
.
Justin Ahasteen (19:17):
Oh, absolutely.
It's a dropping in the bucketcompared to what people actually
spend on medical care just tostay alive.
I know some folks that arewithin our coalition who have
spent north of $3 million so farjust in cancer treatment alone
(19:38):
million dollars so far just incancer treatment alone and for
our people that's unheard of.
On the Navajo Nation Mostpeople just succumb to their
illnesses because they can'tafford medical care or they
don't have the insurance tocover that type of stuff.
There's a story of a man namedLeslie Bidet who served in the
Vietnam War and returned homeand worked in the uranium mine
and he was a disabled modern andwhen he was diagnosed with
(20:02):
respiratory illnesses he went toevery hospital he could think
of to receive treatment and wasturned away every time.
It was a miracle that onedoctor really saw something in
him and did everything he couldto assist him, and he was at the
(20:25):
last month of his life.
He wasn't expected to live pasta month and under the miracle
he was able to receive a doublelung transplant and I'm so
thankful that he's with us today.
He is sharing his story on theHill how there are no services
available to Native American onthe reservation he had to pick
(20:47):
up and move his life, to movecloser to the Valley and really
leave behind his culture, hisidentity.
In order to just survive, hisfamily had had to make
significant contributions.
A lot of them had to leavetheir jobs and move with him to
help support him, and Leslie isone of the very few lucky ones.
(21:09):
Not everyone is as fortunate.
Not everyone is able toovercome something like that,
and that's really the story thatwe're trying to highlight and
elevate.
People are literally waiting athome for some measure of
benefits, and we know thebenefits aren't going to cure
anything, but at least it'llprovide them some comfort for
the remainder of their days, andthen it's just the humane thing
(21:34):
to do.
Not being able to enjoy lifeand just sit there and suffer is
very hard, and it's hard on thefamilies who have to witness
that.
They sit there knowing thatthey're helpless, and it's
starting to create a lot ofmental health issues within the
family, literally watchingsomeone that they love die right
(21:57):
in front of their eyes andthey're not able to do anything
about it.
Steve Taylor (22:02):
And because they were mining something that they
didn't even know was dangerousand that information was
withheld.
Am I right in thinking that amember of the Navajo Nation
would petition the federalgovernment and present the case
to the federal government andthen get compensation directly?
Justin Ahasteen (22:24):
So the Navajo Nation doesn't receive any
benefits from the federalgovernment.
Everything is administeredthrough the Department of
Justice and there's a whole setof requirements that you have to
meet.
You have to demonstrate thatyou did work in the mines, and
that's really a problem forother people because these
mining companies did not keepmining records or when they went
into closure or bankruptcy theydestroyed a lot of these
(22:48):
records.
So those are not there anymore.
So this bill actually helpsaddress that, because there are
a lot of people who have beendenied benefits because they
can't get a social securityearnings statement because their
employee never reported thatthey were working or they were
on the payroll but yet they weredoing the work.
So this bill allows workhistory affidavits to help
(23:14):
supplement some of the requiredpaperwork in order for those to
receive benefits.
But even then, there's a wholelist of requirements that you
have to meet.
You have to have a medicalanalysis done.
Your medical record has toattribute your executive as work
related to uranium mining orbeing within a downwind vicinity
(23:36):
within a specified amount oftime.
So when Congress starteddebating this, senator Lujan and
Senator Crapo introduced theirversion of the Radiation
Exposure Compensation Actamendments and the Congressional
Budget Office came out with anastronomical number of $150
(23:56):
billion that it would cost thenation, when the original
program with all of itsrequirements over the last 20
years has only cost the federalgovernment less than $4 billion.
So we cannot see how expandingthis to those who need it and
(24:16):
extending the program for anadditional 19 years under the
Lujan-Cripo bill would have gonefrom a $4 billion advance to
$150 billion.
I honestly think CBO did somelazy math there, but it's
certainly not reflective of whois actually going to benefit
(24:38):
from this.
So when the RECA amendments wereincluded as part of the
National Defense AuthorizationAct in December to still the
Lujan CREPA bill, it wentthrough budget reconciliation or
conferencing, and they decidedto discuss this.
Obviously, the Republicans wereconcerned about the FBO score,
(25:00):
so we worked with them.
So we worked with them, we madesome concessions and we were
able to trim the hypothetical$150 billion down to a
hypothetical $50 billion andthat really cut the compensation
levels down.
It took out some of the medicalbenefits.
(25:21):
So it's not as good as theLujan-Crayfield bill, but it was
still something that we werewilling to support because it
did provide some benefits forthose who really need it, and
that was still not enough.
(25:41):
So the bill, the amendment, wastaken out of the National
Defense Authorization Act andCongress passed it.
So now Senator Hawley was ableto get this new reauthorization
bill, which was the negotiatedversion from the NDAA, onto the
floor for a vote and that passedwith significant bipartisan
support on the Senate it wasabout 69 to 30, I believe, in
terms of votes and it went overto the House.
(26:04):
Now it's just in there and wehave been putting Speaker
Johnson in terms of votes and itwent over to the House.
Now it's just in there and wehave been pushing Speaker
Johnson to bring this to thefloor for a vote and we don't
understand why it hasn't.
And we have less than fourweeks left of actual legislative
session left for them to passany bills and program expires on
June 10th.
(26:24):
So we have been continuing topush and it's really insulting
that our delegation from Utahhas made a claim that those who
have been affected adverselydeserve compensation, when they
are the ones not supporting thebill that Holly has introduced,
(26:44):
saying that, oh, the price tagis too high or we don't agree
that everyone should benefitfrom this.
And there was even a commentthat was made in some of our
meetings with the Utahdelegation that, oh, the
original would prepare all theUtahns so this doesn't really
benefit us anyway.
So that was really insulting.
It was really disheartening tohear and, as many people have
(27:07):
seen, president Nygaard come outpublicly disappointed with the
Utah delegation and we're hopingthat they will have a change of
heart and support thisexpansion.
Senator Lee, rep Malloy, repBurgess, mullins and Senator
Romney have all introduced asimple two-year extension bill
(27:29):
but that doesn't do anything foranyone.
That doesn't do anyone for thepeople that actually need it
have been excluded from theprogram and again, it's really
disheartening and we're hopingUtah will come around and do the
right thing.
Steve Taylor (27:41):
You mentioned President Nygren and making
public statements.
I read an editorial by him inTime magazine and it was talking
about the movie Oppenheimer andhow it ignored the collateral
damage and the harm to theNavajo Nation.
(28:05):
You know the building of thatdevice, the arms race, and I
know that I've heard fromdownwinders from some of the
testing.
You know they feel that theywere given short shrift in that
film as well and I know somepeople in St Louis who were like
(28:27):
you know what about the storyof all the waste and you know
from what you've told me.
You know the Navajo Nation issuffering the most with 500
abandoned uranium mines.
There was actually a spill, theChurch Rock spill.
Yeah, could you tell us alittle bit about that?
Justin Ahasteen (28:48):
Yeah, the Church Rock spill is the US
equivalent to the Chernobyldisaster and not a lot of people
actually know about this.
And we're the United States,where we like to claim we're the
greatest country in the worldand everyone should come here
because we're so great, but what?
We censor a lot of theinformation that could be public
(29:09):
knowledge.
We have had one of the worstradioactive spills in history
and nobody seems to care becauseit's on Indian land, it doesn't
matter, no one was affected.
It's on Indian land, it doesn'tmatter, no one was affected.
And that's really disheartening.
And it's something that we havetried to address and really
(29:31):
push to show, because that area,the land, it's not going to be
inhabitable for the next 80,000years.
It's insane and there are stillcommunities that live in that
area and people just don't seemto care and we don't know why.
Steve Taylor (29:53):
Do the children, do families and children?
They must know of it.
I mean how do you live withthat?
Is that my question?
I mean how does a communitylive with that?
Is that my question?
How, I mean how, how does acommunity live with that?
Justin Ahasteen (30:07):
So they've put up fences, they've tried to cap
off as much as they can, put upsigns.
Most people will say well, whydon't we just pick up and move?
Well, it's a lot easier saidthan done.
Um, where are they going tomove to?
A lot of these families areelders.
They don't have any place to go, they don't have a source of
income.
What are they supposed to do?
(30:28):
The cost of living nowadays,just in the city, is
astronomically high.
Where are these people going togo?
Just for children and youngadults, but the elderly?
There's nowhere to put them.
So we can't just pick up andleave.
(30:49):
So, unfortunately, people arejust stuck where they are and
they have to try to live as bestas they can.
And I think at this point thementality is I'll probably get
cancer at some point, so Ishould prepare for that, and
that's not how people should beliving their life.
And again, these are disastersthat have happened from the
(31:10):
negligence of the federalgovernment as well as these
private industries.
The federal government will tryto shift liability away a lot
of the time, but at the end ofthe day, it was the Department
of the Interior that was signingoff on these uranium leases and
urging the Navajo TribalCouncil to approve these leases,
and that was in the interest ofnational security.
(31:35):
And if it's in the interest ofnational security, then, as a
means of protecting those whohave contributed to that, we
should be focusing on providingthose levels of compensation.
We see all of this foreign aidgoing out to Ukraine, to other
countries they just passedanother $90 billion bill to help
(31:58):
support activity but not withinour own country, and again it's
a really big betrayal to thepeople who live in this country,
who have provided a lot in theinterest of national security,
and their voices are not beingheard and they're given the side
eye or they're saying it's tooexpensive.
Sorry, we did this to youwithout even doing any
consideration for having arequired pay-for, which is a
(32:29):
term that a lot of Republicansactually use is we won't support
this bill until you find anoffset or pay-for.
But we're not doing that with alot of these foreign aid
packages.
So why don't we go back andreinvest into our own people and
address the issues within ourown country before we start
worrying about what's happeningexternally?
(32:50):
Because if we can't take careof ourselves, we're not going to
be able to take care ofeveryone else, and we're already
at a point where our federalbudget we've had the highest
deficit in history and we're notbringing in enough revenue to
address that.
And now the interest of thegovernment, of the federal debt
is more than the GDP as a whole.
(33:11):
So we're in this really stickysituation.
This is not a handout, and Iwant to be clear.
This is not a handout forpeople who have been adversely
affected.
It's providing compensation.
It's providing a measure ofrecognition that, yes, we did
wrong by you and we're going todo everything that we can to.
(33:33):
We're never going to make youwhole, but we can get you a
little closer to that.
I mean honestly, if the UnitedStates were to just waive
sovereign immunity, we couldsettle this in the court and we
would probably be done in a weekwith a large judgment.
So the United States recognizesthat and I believe that's why
they passed the RadiationDisclosure Compensation Act
(33:55):
initially.
But at the same time, it's whyare we shifting our focus away
from domestic issues and sofocused on international issues?
There are people within our owncountry that are suffering.
The Navajo people, specifically, have suffered.
We still, a third of our people, don't even have running water
(34:16):
and electricity.
And this is America, you know.
We have a country within acountry and it's a third world
country.
So why don't we do everythingthat we can to make sure that
our citizens are keeping care ofthem, and that's really just my
thought.
Steve Taylor (34:32):
Yeah, our citizens are keeping score of them, and
that's really just my thought.
Yeah, and the Church Rockuranium spill was 44 years ago
and it was 94 million gallons ofradioactive waste spilling into
a river that runs across theNavajo Nation.
And your president, boo Nygren,wrote in the Time magazine
editorial that the movieOppenheimer came out, I think
(34:58):
four or five days after that44-year anniversary and still
nothing's been done.
In St Louis, dawn Chapman andDawn Chapman was she spoke very
highly of you and because I wastalking to her about the RICA
reauthorization and she told mewhat she had learned about the
(35:19):
Navajo Nation and how hard hitit is.
But they've been dealing withwaste, you know, for decades, 50
years.
It's from the Manhattan Projectas well.
It just seems to be everywherethat the federal government does
not want to address these pointsources.
(35:43):
They're still there.
They're still there in St Louisit's in people's homes.
Worse, yet on the Navajo Nationpeople are building homes out
of radioactive material.
It's just amazing.
And the fact that the movieOppenheimer didn't give a nod to
that, I don't know.
Some people found it offensive.
(36:05):
How about you?
Justin Ahasteen (36:07):
It is offensive and we were hoping Christopher
Nolan would have acknowledgedthat, especially as this is
going up for an academy awardand I believe the authors and
whatnot, um, they give a smallblow.
Uh, I think it's the end of themovie where it's like what do
we do with the land?
I would just give it back tothe indians, um, and I'm like
(36:29):
that's the extent of youracknowledgement towards Native
Americans.
So it is really disrespectful.
But there is a movie that is outthere it's from the 70s that I
think really highlights a lot ofthe issues that Navajo has
faced with forced relocation inthe 70s, as well as the natural
(36:52):
resource industry really boomingwith oil and gas and uranium
specifically and that's a filmcalled Broken Rainbow and it has
won an Academy Award itself.
I think it was a documentary orsomething like that years ago
and I invite people to watchthat to really understand the
(37:13):
issues and the people.
I mean a lot of the people whoare in that field are no longer
with us, unfortunately, but theydo have dissonance and those
areas.
The problems are very realtoday.
They're the exact same issuesand it hasn't changed in the
last 40 years and that's whatwe're really trying to address.
Steve Taylor (37:31):
And I know you're working hard at it.
I mean, I see your office andyour president quoted in a lot
of stories about RICA, theRadiation Exposure Compensation
Act.
It sounds like it's not enough,even if it were to pass, but
you know it's.
There has to be a recognitionand and obviously more needs to
(37:56):
be done.
But it it?
It sounds like uh uh, theNavajo nation feels that it's a
starting point at least.
Justin Ahasteen (38:05):
It is.
It's a starting point and it'sif it's passed, we'll be in a
better position than when wewere the day before.
Steve Taylor (38:15):
So I guess you live in Washington DC most of
the time as the executivedirector of the NNWO.
How is that, and how often doyou get to go back to the Navajo
Nation?
Justin Ahasteen (38:30):
So I always joke with my staff that this is
a job for single people, becauseyou really don't have time for
family or anything like that,because the issues are so grand
and there's just a lot of workto be done.
And you know, I try to do asmuch as I can, sometimes working
(38:51):
up until 2 am in the morningpushing out different things,
because it is a priority.
And that's why the presidentpressed me to be here, because
he knows that I will representthe nation here in DC and do the
best that I can to advance theinterests of the Navajo Nation.
I get home when I can.
My mother does get after mefrom time to time when I don't
(39:13):
call her, so I do the best thatI can to communicate with family
.
But overall it's a lot of work.
It's not really a lot ofdowntime, but I do my best.
I have a great team here thatis very well equipped and very
versatile and can really helpdrive a lot of these initiatives
(39:36):
, and I'm very thankful for that.
Steve Taylor (39:38):
Mr Justin Hostin, thank you so much for joining us
at Breaking Green.
Justin Ahasteen (39:44):
Thank you for having me.
Steve Taylor (39:46):
You have been listening to Breaking Green, a
Global Justice Ecology Projectpodcast.
To learn more about GlobalJustice Ecology Project, visit
globaljusticeecologyorg.
Breaking Green is made possibleby tax-deductible donations by
people like you.
Please help us lift up thevoices of those working to
(40:06):
protect forests, defend humanrights and expose false
solutions.
Defend human rights and exposefalse solutions.
Simply text GIVE G-I-V-E to17162574187.
That's 17162574187.
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