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July 30, 2025 34 mins

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Listening to Lisa's story you cannot help but to feel inspired and more connected to your own truth. Her purpose is to allow us all to discover a side of ourselves that we may have silenced long ago and to give us the space to understand that even when the cards continue to stack up against you, there is still a choice to be made. A choice between hope, gratitude and love or loss and despair. She is here to walk along side all of us so that we know that we can always find ourselves even in the hardest of times.

Lisa is one of the kindest and most inspirational guests we have had the pleasure of talking with and we hope you will enjoy!

You can learn more about her journey and work HERE  

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Episode Transcript

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(00:00):
Who.

Alli (00:09):
Welcome back to the Breaking Silence Podcast.
I am so excited that you're ableto join us here today.
As always, take your time.
When listening to theseepisodes, we know that the
content can be a little bitdifficult to process in large
chunks.
So do we need to do breathethrough it?
But I'm so excited that you arehere because I'm joined with
Lisa.
Lisa is a writer, pilot,childhood trauma survivor and

(00:32):
metastatic breast cancerfighter.
To put it plainly, she's a forceof resilience and passion.
Her journey has been shaped by aseries of challenges from
surviving the shadows ofchildhood trauma to soaring
through the skies as a pilot,but doesn't stop there.
As a fighter of istic breastcancer, Lisa has proven time and
time again that strength is inthe most unexpected places.

(00:52):
So Lisa, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Of course.
So before we get into the waysthat you work with folks and
kind of process your story, doyou mind just grounding us a
little bit in your story and thejourney that you've had from all
the different sides of being asurvivor?

Lisa (01:11):
Yeah, sure.
My story started at a very youngage and, I don't think I
actually understood what beingresilient meant for most of my
life., I think I was just insurvival mode.
Simply just trying to livethrough whatever I was going
through at the time., And evensome cases just stay alive.

(01:34):
It usually wasn't a consciousthought to be resilient.
And I.
Often just wanted to, getthrough and move past whatever I
was enduring at various times inmy life.
Once I was diagnosed withmetastatic cancer, I feel like
it was different from any othertime in my life.
A lot of the other things I wentthrough,, maybe felt like an

(01:56):
indirect threat to my life, butthis was, a direct threat on my
life.
And it really.
Caused a lot of change in mylife for me to evaluate a lot of
things.
And I think it was only throughthis past year that I've
actually learned how incrediblyresilient I've been.

(02:17):
I've just chosen to look back onmy life and put all the pieces
together.
I'm writing a memoir and it'sbeen really eye-opening.
When I was going through.
Each one of these things thathappened at the time, they were
just an individual thing that Iwas focused on, you know,
getting through at that time.
But sitting down and putting allof these events on a timeline

(02:40):
and thinking about them insuccession really made me
realize everything that I'vebeen through and how strong I've
been, through it all.
And, I didn't realize it.
Through any of it at the time itjust, I was simply surviving, I
think.

Alli (02:55):
I mean, abuse is a threat to our life.
It's what it feels like.
It's what it brings up inside ofyour body as you are like.
If I don't do this properly,like I could die because it's
the experience of losing all ofyour power, of losing every
sense of self that is thetrigger, right?
That's the death part of it is,I've lost self and, but then on

(03:17):
this other side, the physicalattack on your body, did that.
Did it feel different as yourealized those differences did
certain things show updifferently for you, in holding
space for those two truths?
Yeah

Lisa (03:31):
it felt differently that it was, this time of direct
attack on my life.
But also it was like I didn'thave anybody to get angry at.
Or, to blame anything on, youknow, it was,, it is something
that's still happening, which isdifferent from, childhood sexual

(03:52):
abuse.
There's, a perpetrator, there'sa person that caused pain, and I
can put all of that somewhere.
But, I think that's what'sdifferent about this time is
that.
There's no person that did thisand I think that's why it was so
different because when I wasdiagnosed with stage one, I
always say I feel like I didn'tget the message that time, and

(04:13):
stage four deliver the messagesuccessfully., But with stage
one, I just,, I did what Ialways did in hard times.
How do I push through,, how do Iget to the other end of this,
the other side of this?
And, for me that meant, gettingback to flying and getting back
to my life.
When I was diagnosed the firsttime my wife was pregnant with
our first son and.

(04:35):
There was a lot going on.
And so for me, it wasn't methinking about anything other
than I wasn't really thinkingabout any deep healing.
I was figuring out how to keepmy family afloat, get back to
work and support everybody.
And that's what I did the secondtime, with the stage four
diagnosis.
I was like, okay, I'm listeningnow.

(04:58):
And.
I have known my entire life thatI have not faced a lot of
things, a lot of traumas thathappen.
And so I started just reallydigging into all of it I got a
therapist.
I pretty much refused to do thatfor most of my life.
And, just really started on ahealing journey.
It's caused me to be thehappiest I've ever been in my

(05:19):
life.
And I've had to rehash a lot ofthings that were painful.
I always say there's a gift init because the way that I've
dealt with everything up untilthis past year was how do I get
through it?
Just push through it and forgetabout it.
I don't feel like I was trulyliving.

(05:41):
I just was, I was still insurvival mode.
And now I feel like myperspective has shifted.
I can see what's important and,,it's allowed me to heal.
It's allowed, I'm still healing.
And it's allowing me to helpothers.
I feel like I've seen a lot,I've been through a lot, and I
don't have all the answers, but.

(06:03):
I feel like at least I can lendwhat I know and what I've seen
and what I've been through tosomebody else.
And even if it just helps themto not feel alone in whatever
they're going through, thenthat's to me a success that I've
been able to help somebody.

Alli (06:16):
Yeah, we can't survive anything being alone, and I
think a lot of times, whenyou're talking kinda what I hear
is.
There was a sense of you had tobe a hero.
I think of pilots, maybe it'sjust my childhood kicking in
when you're playing games as akid and you're like, oh, I'm
gonna be a pilot when I grow up.
Or a doctor or vet.
It has this certain feeling ofhero occupation to it because

(06:43):
you're

Lisa (06:43):
mm-hmm.

Alli (06:44):
Guiding us through the skies.
Right.
You're doing the unthinkable,you're flying.
And that sense,, I feel like,was with you very deeply in.
The first time it was like, it'sfine.
I've got it.
I don't need to feel this, Idon't need to think about it.
I can still be the hero, I canbe the champion for me, for my
wife, for my family.
And it sounds like the secondtime sort of stripped or what

(07:07):
you're still battling through,stripped some of that away.
Can you just talk about losingthe sense of, I have to be a
hero, or I have to take this onthe chin?
'cause I think a lot of peopledo that and hold that to be
their truth.
Yeah, and I think,

Lisa (07:22):
I've peeled back a lot of layers, digging into this, but,,
therapy has certainly helped.
You know, I've been carrying alot of shame, a lot of guilt,
and for everything my entirelife.
And this just added to it.
And, it took my therapistsaying, this is not your fault.
You didn't cause this.
Cracking into the childhoodtrauma.

(07:44):
Like you were just a kid thatwasn't your fault.
And, the shame that surroundsit, it's not your shame.
You didn't do this, somebodyelse did this.
And then with cancer, I don'tknow why I had shame around it.
It was like somebody clipped mywings when I got grounded the
first time.
And now again,, it's almost likeembarrassing as a pilot that I'm

(08:05):
not bulletproof,, I'm not asuperhero.
And that I can't fly.
It's like that's what I do.
And now I can't do it.
I think stripping everythingaway has been.
Painful at times, anduncomfortable.
But I'm getting to a place whereI'm finally comfortable with

(08:28):
myself, and I am, I feel likeI'm a better person for it.
I feel like I'm a better partnerto my wife.
I'm a better parent to my kids,,and I'm finally living
authentically.
I felt being a pilot and at thecompany.
I was working for, I mean, it'sa male dominated industry, so

(08:50):
that's a whole nother aspect ofjust trying to like, stay
strong, you know, don't, quoteunquote, act like a woman and
have any emotions and,vulnerabilities.
It's just gonna, put a target onyou basically.
Or, people aren't gonna trustyour abilities.
But yeah, it's been anuncomfortable journey, but the
more that I go through it, thedeeper I get into it,, the

(09:14):
happier I am.
I'm shedding years and years ofjust carrying all that guilt,
all that shame,, and finally

Alli (09:24):
being vulnerable.
Yeah, I think that's such acommon experience for people and
we.
Know it, but we don't wanna nameit as shame or guilt.
'cause I think it feels, I don'tknow, maybe it sometimes feels
childish to feel guilty orshame, that's so much of what we
experience as kids.
Like, don't do that, do this.

(09:45):
Right.
Just little shame nuggets orspread throughout our entire
lives.
And especially on the cancerside, it, and this is true of
childhood trauma as well, but.
Cancer, to me on the outsidelooking in is something that you
can't control or change gettingcancer.
And I think similar to victimblaming rhetoric, sometimes we

(10:08):
get the message of well, if youdid this and if you did this,
then you won't get cancer.
And I think that's a thing wesay to people that are assaulted
too.
Well, if you didn't do this andif you didn't go do this, and if
you weren't wearing that, youwouldn't have been assaulted.
There is still.
This messaging, I think, on bothof those things and what is your
advice for navigating some ofthat as you've experienced them.

(10:29):
Even if it's not like literallysomeone's like, Hey, you gave
yourself cancer.
But I think when you look thingsup or even read articles,
there's sort of this tone inthere that I read sometimes.
Do you feel that?
And how does that influence whatyou did experience?

Lisa (10:45):
Yeah.
I think there's a lot ofpressure to.
Do what other people want you todo when you have cancer.
And even still, I get texts andemails from old coworkers and
old friends, like, Hey, have youtried this?
You should try this.
I've heard it works, you know,it's a miracle drug.
Or have you tried drinking thistea?

(11:05):
And, it kind of makes you feellike, you've done something
wrong.
You're always doing somethingwrong.
It's confusing.
But I think what I have learned,I've been reading a lot of books
and a lot of digging and Iwanted to educate myself because
I feel like when you educateyourself, it's empowering,, and

(11:27):
you don't feel so lost andwhatever other people say
doesn't really get under yourskin as much as well.
And so I've just been goingthrough a lot of trial and
error, reading various books ofpeople that have radical
remission that somehow had stagethree and four cancer that,,
survived.
And,, live to tell the story andnot to say that there's any

(11:48):
miracle, one thing that's a cureall, but it's interesting And,
so I've kind of been takingpieces and parts from what I
think.
Are beneficial and,, fit mysituation, to just kind of help
build my treatment planalongside my doctors.

(12:12):
And it's funny, i've been to afew appointments where after
I've read some books and changedmy diet and just started
changing a lot of things aboutwhat I was doing, they almost
made me feel silly about it.
Like, you have control over thisand, almost telling me like, you
might as well just give up.
You're stage four.
Like, they didn't say itdirectly, but that's how I felt.

(12:33):
And, I feel like that's doctorstreating patients that way is.
Almost a sure way to killsomebody's positivity and hope.
And I know they try to walk afine line of being realistic
and, not giving somebody some,false hope.

(12:54):
But at the same time, somethingtriggered in me that.
I need to take control of this.
I spent months just crying andfeeling hopeless and at some
point I was like, no, this isnot who I am.
This is not who I wanna be.
This is not who I want my sonsto see.
And I can at least give myself afighting shot and put 100% into

(13:18):
it, whatever that means.
Whatever I uncover, whatever Ifind, and I feel that's right
for me.
And then,.
Hopefully in another 40 years,when I pass away, my sons will
be like, wow, my mama was, awarrior and she gave it a
hundred percent and I hopethat's what I want them to see.
I don't wanna leave anything onthe table.
And, so I think doing my ownresearch and finding out what's

(13:44):
worked.
That's helped me

Alli (13:48):
in

Lisa (13:48):
many ways.

Alli (13:50):
Yeah.
I feel like we can say that likefor childhood trauma too, of
it's what works for you.
And there, I think not havinglike hopelessness, I think it's
hard, but balancing between,these are really dark and heavy
things,.
Sadness and depression andfeeling alone and loss.
These are all normal and commonfeelings and I think a lot of

(14:13):
times we tend to talk about thehype side of being a survivor.
I'm so strong, I'm amazing, I'mresilient., People wanna hear
that, right?
They don't necessarily wannahear about how shitty it is to
survive these things.
And yeah, as you have learnedto.
Face this at times, hopelessnessmessage with cancer.

(14:34):
Have you been able to give somehope to that childhood side of
you that I'm sure also receivedmessages of hopelessness along
the way?

Lisa (14:46):
Yeah, I say all the time I don't know how I'm still alive
and you know how I.
Didn't end up in jail.
It's, I think by sheer luckhonestly.
But I did, I went through yearsof just feeling hopeless,
helpless, and,, didn't reallycare much.

(15:06):
And I think I pushed limitsbecause I didn't really care
what happened to me and I justfelt lost.
And I was a kid, when I wassexually abused.
It was from ages 10 to 14 and.
I had issues with my father,like he wasn't really involved
in my life.
And, my mom was distracted byher marriage and other things,
so I just,, I felt really aloneand just, did the best with what

(15:33):
I had, which wasn't much.
And, I tried to be around myfriends because I've.
I didn't realize it, I guesswhat I was doing, but it was
surviving because anytime I wasby myself, I went into that dark
place and I couldn't sit alonewith my thoughts for more than a
few minutes, or it would get badquick.
But anytime I was around myfriends, they didn't know what

(15:56):
was going on.
I didn't tell anyone.
I told my best friend after ithad stopped happening.
But at the time, I was the classclown.
And so what.
I was probably the last personthat they would think were, was
going through that.
Just because I would act around,my friends and when I was in

(16:17):
front of people.
But, yeah, that darkness isawful and especially as a kid if
you don't have somebody to helpyou work through it.
There was a lot of times where.
When I was alone in my room, Iwould push limits and get
grounded for a couple of monthsat a time, and that was like my
worst nightmare.
I was in my room by myself for,a couple months at a time

(16:40):
sometimes, and I would get tothe point where, I wanted to
take my own life and, reallywhat I needed, I just needed to
be around people.
I needed to be around myfriends.
And all of that would just kindof go away, at least for the
moment.
But my therapist that I have nowhas helped me work through a

(17:01):
lot.
Kind of talking to that littlegirl that went through all that
stuff and,, helping me realizethat's in the past it happened
and you're safe now and kind ofputting my arm around her saying
like, I got you.
I'm protecting you now.
And, now that I have two kids,two boys, that's one of my fears

(17:22):
for them is, that they may gothrough something like that.
So I think sometimes thatdarkness still wants to peek in
other ways now.
And, sometimes can really.
Give me a negative view of theworld and I try to pull myself
out of that.
Like, not everything is bad.
Not everybody is bad.
And, I certainly don't wanna, beoverprotective of them, not let

(17:44):
them enjoy their life.
I'm still learning, stilllearning how to deal with

Alli (17:49):
it.
Yeah.
There's that piece of,generational trauma or putting
our.
Stuff onto people.
So many folks in my life havethat fear, even if it's from, I
don't wanna give them my bodyimage issues, or I don't wanna
pass along to my kid this thingthat lives inside of me that I'm

(18:10):
working on, but it's notcomplete, and how do you look at
that process of addressinggenerational trauma for many
ways, and also with the factthat.
Loss is at least a conversation.
I'm sure you all have to someextent in your life, in your
family of that.

(18:30):
Fighting through like cancerkind of puts this perspective
of, we're fighting and we'regetting through and we have to
talk about things now that likewe can't wait.
It's like this, you can'tnecessarily wait 30 years to
address this generational traumaor make these things.
I'm assuming some immediacycomes up in those moments.

Lisa (18:50):
I've said that this has been a gift,, because I feel
like a lot of people don't getthis opportunity.
Some people, die in a car crashor, just very quickly or
whatever their case may be.
They don't get the chance tohave a wake up call,, that
allows them to reflect and lookback and sort of face these

(19:14):
things.
I have.
And so that's been a gift for mein this awful situation is
that,, it's highlighted what'simportant.
It's, allowed my wife and I tohave open conversations and,
we've gotten closer again overthis.

(19:35):
Yeah, I mean, it's an awfulsituation, but it's also caused
me to in, not really a morbidway, but just think about death
and, it's funny that we alltiptoe around it because we're
all gonna die.
We're all right.
You know, nobody on this planetis gonna live forever unless
some cool new technology comesout, but, it's allowed me to get

(19:58):
comfortable with that again,hopefully way before my time.
But, I've had time to process itand think about it and be okay.
Yeah.
And start clearing these thingsoutta my life so that whenever
it is my time, I'm okay.
Yeah.
I've healed and.

(20:19):
Mission accomplished kind ofthing, right?

Alli (20:21):
So much of life to me and why we're called breaking
silence is because it's abouttalking about things, or at
least inviting people intoconversations to say, we don't
have to continue to let thislive in darkness.
And I think death is one ofthose things, right?
Abuse, death, trauma, addiction,depression, all these like
things we just don't wanna Yeah.

(20:42):
Talk about, think about, weshove them away, however.
They're probably a part ofeveryone's life in some capacity
and touch you in some way.
And there's this isolation thatwe do by putting these
conversations aside.
And have you felt a little bitof the isolation and having to
talk about this taboo, I'mputting that in air quotes,

(21:04):
topic of death, and how do youlook at that with your kids and
how do you look at that withyour wife and how do you look at
that for you, as thisconversation?
His desk really trying to besilenced so much of the time.
Yeah.

Lisa (21:18):
My son, my youngest son, his birthday is actually today,
he's turning one today.
Oh,

Alli (21:22):
happy birthday.

Lisa (21:23):
Yeah.
Thank you.
My oldest son just turned five,so,, I'm still trying to think
of.
How to approach things with him.
And we've, talked to him aboutcancer, on his level mm-hmm.
And what it means, in a verybasic sense.
He overhears things,, he knows Ihave doctor's appointments and I
come home,, with a bandaid froman IV or whatever it may be,

(21:46):
hospital band.
So he's smart enough to pick upon something.
So we try to keep things on hislevel, what we talk to him
about, and as things arise, howdo we want to approach this
together?
I think, my comfort with.
Death in general,, is differentthan my wife's and, I can't make

(22:07):
her be comfortable with it.
Sure., So it's, sort of been apiece of my own journey to get
comfortable with it and just beopen about how I see it and, how
I feel about it.
And, I think that's somethingthat.
Individually people have to cometo on their own.
Mm-hmm.
Obviously it's not something youcan force on somebody to be

(22:28):
comfortable with a loved onedying or just the, talking of
death.
Sure.
But yeah, the conversations havecertainly changed over the last
year.
But it's really,, for the mostpart been me on a journey just
coming to terms with things forme.
And, I think at first I wasreally timid to talk about any

(22:51):
of these things, but I did itonce just a little bit to a
friend and it was like, wow,that.
Felt good to get that out.
And that friend that wasactually like very receptive and
was like, oh my God, thank youso much for talking to me about
that.
This happened to me.
I was like, oh wow.
Like just sharing that littlebit with somebody.

(23:11):
It's an instant connection thatallowed her to open up and her
to heal a little bit.
And so the more I did it, themore I realized that this is
helping people.
It's helping me too.
It's helping me heal.
But it's also helping others.
So little by little, asuncomfortable as it was, I just
started talking about all ofthese uncomfortable things more
and more.

(23:31):
And,, the feedback and theoutreach that I've gotten from
it has been awesome.
And I'm hoping that when my bookis done, it's gonna have that
same effect and, hopefully helpsomebody.
There's a lot of.
Ugliness and darkness in thatbook, but I hope that they also

(23:52):
see the light too in it.
Yeah.
And,, yeah, it's hard stuff totalk about, but I feel like
somebody's gotta start somewhereand why not be me?
What do I have to lose at thispoint?
Yeah.
And I told my brother that, he.
I can't remember what it was,but he asked me if I was scared
and I was like, I'm not scaredof much anymore.

(24:13):
After you hear stage four,there's not really a whole lot
to be afraid of anymore.
Just go big, go bold, what doyou have to lose?

Alli (24:21):
Yeah.
It kinda, I'm sure it re, itreframes some things that are in
life that maybe.
Like writing a book, maybethat's been there for you, and
it's like, Hey, why not?
You know, let's just go forward.
Let's just take the steps tomake it happen and see what
happens.
Because you wanna do it.
It's about that for you.

(24:42):
It's not necessarily aboutbecoming a New York Times
bestseller.
All those things are great andlovely, but to do it for you is
the most important thing.
We can do in this life, right?
And not compare it or put it in,a space of accolades.
And I think that's sometimeswhat holds us back is I have to
be successful in order to doinstead of

Lisa (25:04):
Just

Alli (25:04):
do

Lisa (25:04):
it.

Alli (25:05):
You know,

Lisa (25:06):
I've done that.
I feel like I've done that mywhole life.
Everything that I did I to beattached to successful or I
wouldn't do it.
I was scared to do it if Ididn't know that I could.
Do it 100% and be good at it.
I didn't wanna do it.
And I was afraid of failurealways.
I think that's something thatI've been able to shed more and

(25:27):
more.
And, I never thought of myselfas a creative person, but the
more.
Healing.
I do.
And the more I talk about thesethings, I'm realizing I'm a very
creative person.
We're all creative, butsometimes it's suppressed
because when we're trying to besuccessful, that tamps all that
down, it goes against, you know,keeping an open mind and,

(25:50):
letting your creativity flow.,Because sometimes there's no
mark of success on creativity.
It's just creative.
But yeah, the book was 100% forme.
And I think a secondary benefitwould be if it helps somebody
that picks it up and reads itone day.
And I've been saying for years Iwanted to write a book, and I
think part of me was scared todo it because it would involve

(26:13):
me facing all these things thathappened and I wasn't ready to
do that yet.
So I kept shoving it downsaying, oh, I don't have time to
do that.
I don't have time to do that.
But when I got grounded.
After the stage four diagnosis,I had a lot of time on my hands.
And, the more I healed and themore I faced things, I'm like, I
can do this and I will do this.

(26:34):
And exactly what you said, thisis for me, this is part of my
healing journey.
And yeah, hopefully it can helpsomebody along the way.

Alli (26:44):
Yeah.
And that's, a process you're in,in general, right?
People can reach out to you and,you can coach them through
difficult moments and you kindof have framed your mindset in a
very teachable way.
Can you just share a little bitabout that and the work that you
are doing with individuals andfolks that are feeling maybe
stuck or lost in shame orwhatever they might be carrying?

Lisa (27:07):
Yeah, I'm still developing a lot of stuff and just trying
to figure out, I think.
It's a case by case thing.
You know, everybody needssomething different.
And, I have so many stories anddifferent traumas and different
stories of whether it be successor resilience or whatever it is,

(27:28):
or wrapped into my entire storythat I feel like.
Tidbits of that can helpdifferent people with different
things.
I've learned a lot from becominga pilot and being a pilot.
And so it's still a work inprogress and I think it, it
might always be, and,, it'llalways be what an individual

(27:51):
needs and what I can do, what Ican offer them,, to help.
Whatever their situation is,whether it be cancer or they,
experience sexual abuse, or ifthey're just,, struggling
through life, with havingconfidence issues.
I learned a lot when I, in, my,flight training years in a male

(28:13):
dominated field.
So I think there's a lot ofnuggets that I can give to
people.
In D ways, but I feel like,purpose is really important
and,, I didn't really know whatmy purpose was.
And I would say for my entirelife, in my job, I was also the

(28:35):
assistant chief pilot.
Aside from my flying role, I hadoffice duties and.
It allowed me to help mentorpilots and it allowed me to
mentor, girls who are coming upin aviation or minorities, that
were struggling to try to breakin and,, figure out a way to, to
get it done.

(28:55):
But I learned stuff all throughthat,, I think is helping me
now, help other people and Ijust wanna feel like that's my
true purpose in life and, I'mjust really starting to connect
with it and, I feel like for solong I ignored purpose because I

(29:18):
was so focused on success and sofocused on a path that I had to
be successful.
I had to make so much money, Ihad to have a status and, now
again, I'm much happier.
I'm following.
What my life was meant for and,,I hope that I can continue

(29:38):
helping people for a long time.

Alli (29:40):
Absolutely.
We started this conversationtalking about resiliency, I have
a love hate with the wordresiliency.
Just as somebody that was calledthat many times in my life and
never felt it, and I understandthe context of that word, but as
I hear you talk, there's so muchcompassion and kindness to

(30:00):
yourself that's like, yes, thatresilience piece is maybe the
motivator, but I feel likethere's this other thing over
here that is this like stillnessand compassion, and kindness
element.
Do you feel like you hold thosethings simultaneously?
Do you feel like they act intandem and help connect you to
certain experiences differently?

Lisa (30:22):
Yeah, I think, for so long I've always had,, a
compassionate side, but I thinkI've tamped it down because I've
always carried so much pain andsuffering that like I didn't
know how to deal with it and Icouldn't really take on other
people, so I just stayed tomyself.
And, would almost getuncomfortable if somebody else
was going through somethingbecause I wouldn't know how to
fix it.
And it's like the whole thing ofwhen you're in an airplane and

(30:44):
something goes wrong, put yourown mask on first.
Now that I've done that mm-hmm.
Finally,, it's allowed me to bemore compassionate and not turn
away from it.
When somebody needs help, I runto it now and, it makes me feel
better to be able to help peopleand, yeah, I think I needed to

(31:07):
go on my own healing journeybefore I could help anybody else
before I had anything to offer,because for so long it was just
survive and, keep yourselfalive.
How are you gonna help somebodyelse when you can't help
yourself?
And, yeah, I think now I'm inthat place where.

(31:27):
I can help others just becauseI've been on my own healing
journey.
And like I have, I feel the sameway about the word resilience.
It's like I didn't, I never knewI was being resilient.
I was just trying to stay alive.
You know?
I was just trying to survive,,whatever it was I was going
through.
So, yeah.
I hear you.
When you have, a love haterelationship with the word, I
feel the same way.

(31:47):
It's,, yes.
But also, I feel like it's.
Kind of takes away, what we wentthrough, And some of the impact
of what we actually dealt with.
We weren't resilient because wehad to,

Alli (32:01):
you know, it's like what

Lisa (32:02):
other

Alli (32:02):
choices you have.
Right.
Exactly.
And I think there's ways to, youknow, from that not having a
choice, feeling comes so manylessons and I feel like that's
what you're.
Really diving into and wantingto share with so many people.
And that is such a gift and Ihope that people take that in
and feel it and learn as much asthey possibly can for the

(32:26):
knowledge you have to share.
And I will add a link in thedescription,, to your website.
And also as the memoir comesout, please let us know.
We'll share that out as well.,Before we kind of wrap things
up, is there anything else.
You want our audience to know oryou wanna share in general?

Lisa (32:43):
I would say that, you're not alone.
Whatever you're going through,somebody else has gone through
it, is going through it andsometimes we walk next to each
other silent and we never knowwhat somebody else is going
through.
So also be kind to others and,.
If you can be that light insomebody's life, be it, and

(33:05):
sometimes it just simply takessaying hello to a stranger on
the street or complimenting, Ilike your shoes, and we never
know what somebody else is goingthrough.
And that one little thing couldbrighten their day and, they
could be on the edge of, doingsomething terrible.
But that one thing that you saidor did for them.

(33:26):
Could change at all.
So I would say just be kind and,that also means be kind to
yourself the same advice youwould give your friend.
You should take it for yourselfwhen you're going through hard
times.
We only can do our best withwhat we have at the time.
And I used to carry around a lotof guilt for things that I've

(33:46):
done in my past that when Ididn't know better when I was
trying to survive.
But we have to forgive ourselvesfor things and we were just
doing the best that we could dowith what we knew at the time.

Alli (34:00):
Yeah, that's so powerful.
It's the little things.
I think a lot of times we wantit to be something grand and
it's usually just this simplelittle moment or word or act and
it can and does make such a hugedifference.
So thanks for sharing that.
That's very powerful.

(34:21):
Absolutely.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on the podcast.
It's been amazing to talk withyou and hear a little bit about
your story, and I hope we get tocontinue to share your
incredible message.
And, thanks everybody forjoining us, and we'll talk to
you next time.
Bye everybody.
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