Episode 596 - Interview with Luke Lunkenheimer! - Breakthrough Walls

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, good morning, and welcome to break Through Walls. I'm
Ken Walls and I'm your host, and today I have
the one, the only, the inimitable Luke Lunkenheimer. Say that
three times real fast. So listen, I want you guys
to do me a favor. I want you to share

(00:26):
this out. Let's get thousands of people on here hearing
Luke's story about how he got through it all. And
this dude has been through it so you don't want
to miss this, and you don't want your friends to
miss this, So go ahead and share this thing out.
Let's get a bunch of people on here. We'll be

(00:47):
right back with Luke Lunkenheimer. All right, we are back.

(01:24):
Let me bring Luke on. Luke, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Glad to be here, brother, Thank you very much for
having me.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
I am really really excited to have you here. Joe
Ingram referred you to me. Shout out to that psychopath.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Genus Joe.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
He is one of the funniest people I think of
all my friends. I think he's the funny He's ridiculous,
and I'm sure he's going to be on here any
moment making some kind of crazy comment that's just that's
how he rolls. So So, Luke, I started this about

(02:09):
six years ago. Yep, there he is, there he is.
I did my best, Joe, He's in that job. Love you, Joe,
So so Luke. You know, six years ago I was
stuck and and I thought, you know, I'll bet you

(02:32):
if I interview enough people and hear their stories, I
can get unstuck. And it's it's worked so far. So
good talk talk about start out with telling everybody where
it all began for you, Like, where were you born
and raised? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Brother, I was born and raised in Cato, New York, which,
for those of you who don't know, is a very
small speck on the map. We're best known for having
a pizza shop in a gas station, So you know
that's a big deal from where I come from. You know, Wow,
it's your typical one horse town, big frog, small pond.
You know, most people know my story to be a
redemption tale. You know, I was a very naive kid

(03:13):
growing up in a small town. Was a country town.
There was really only two ways out. Either your parents
knew somebody and they paid for college and got you
a job somewhere, or you figured it out on your own,
and for me, I didn't have parents that could pay
for school. I didn't have parents that were willing to
foot the bill or co sign for student loans. That was,
we had to figure it out on our own. You're
going to have to figure it out on your own,
which in retrospect wasn't exactly true. Their ways were paved

(03:37):
a little bit. But the long and the short of
it was I had to figure it out for myself.
So I learned that there was really only one conduit
out of that town for me, and it was the
fact that I had some athletic ability and that I
got good grades. I was a hard worker, and I
was a good student, decent football player. The one thing
I had was a real strong throwing arm, and I
was quite fast for a tall, lanky guy. So even

(03:57):
though it wasn't my position of choice, I made for
a good court that I wanted to be a wide receiver.
I wanted to be the guy catching the hail Mary's
in the end zone, and come to find out, I
was better at throwing the ball. So you know that
it's a very long, you know, tail of a lot
of ups and downs. But really what people know me
for as a guy that you know, had a chance
to play college football, lost the scholarship and then got

(04:19):
into the family business, which is sales. My father was
a car dealer. My grandfather was a car dealer. So naturally,
when I lost the scholarship and I had to do something,
I had no backup plan. So I said, I'll try
selling cars. It's the only thing that really I felt
I had a decent shot at doing.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
And that stems from.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
A very naive upbringing, you know, very scarcity minded family.
You know, there was no entrepreneurial spirit in our family,
and there was no compelling the children to go out
and do more. It was this is the lane you
operate in and white picket fence, a labrador and marriage someday,
and that's what you got. That's what life is. So
I was very close minded, but I went into sales.

(04:56):
I performed very well, and for me, it was a
very volatile environment because in the car business, as you
know and many know, that there's a lot of drugs,
there's a lot of alcohol, there's a lot of nefarious behavior.
You know, there's people going out and having beers on
their lunch break. And where I was from, this was
very common behavior. So for a kid that was the
head partier at school that now you know, had a

(05:17):
shoulder issue and was popping a few pain killers here
and there, I.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Probably shouldn't put his comments up while we're talking.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
So at the end of the day, my story goes.
Got the scholarship, lost the scholarship due to an injury,
got into sales, started kicking some mass but realized that sales.
I didn't want to be known as a car salesman
the rest of my life, even though I was making
really strong money. So I got a shoulder surgery, tried
to play football again, shoulder surgery went bad, got deeper
into the pain killers, and then that was. From the

(05:48):
age of twenty to the age of twenty nine was
about a decade long stint of continuing further down the
path of opiate addiction, you know, hopping from job to job,
burning bridges and just like any tale. But most people
you know, regress in a period of a year or
two and go downhill fast. It took me about ten
years to really hit rock bottom. But rock bottom for
me was in twenty fourteen. I robbed a bank. I

(06:10):
walked into a bank and held it up because I
was out of drug money, and you know, I went
to prison because of that. They didn't just slap me
on the wrist. So after spending some time in prison,
and in mind you, towards the end of that ten
year period, there was ins and outs, there was house arrests,
there with county jail bids. It was just your typical
Swiss cheese speckled path of misgivings and misfortune towards the

(06:31):
end of that addiction tale. But it ultimately ended me
in prison. In prison was the best thing that ever
happened to me, not because it was so much of
a behavioral corrector. I didn't want to be that guy anymore,
but it forced me to physically find sobriety, which was
you know, unfortunately for me. I was strong willed, my
mind wanted to get out of that rat race, but
physically getting over the withdrawals and the pain of opiate

(06:53):
addiction is an incredibly difficult thing. I don't wish it
upon my worst enemy. So coming out of that, you know,
some opportunity arose. I was a very hard worker. I
got back into the workforce, and upon getting back into
the workforce, I had an opportunity to partner with a
guy in a car dealership. It was a unique opportunity
that presented itself because he had become a dealer when
I was away in prison, was not doing a very

(07:14):
strong job of it asked me to kind of help him.
So I did that and kind of got my feet
wet in entrepreneurship and discovered that man, I'm actually better
at running a dealership than I am selling cars, and
made us both a lot a lot of money. Once
he got a taste of a significant secondary income, he
quit his primary job and tried to do that full time.
We but had he stole some money, and there I

(07:34):
was back at square one again. So I went back
into the nine to five workforce. A gentleman that I
worked for, who was a mentor of mine and a
former business partner and now lifelong friend, saw something in
me and felt as though that I should you know,
that I had an entrepreneurial gift and I should be
given an opportunity at creating my own car dealership. So
he staked me to the tune of one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars and gave me a property to use

(07:57):
under the pretense that if you do this and do
it well four years from now. For those four years
will split the profit. But in four years, if you
do this well and you make me x amount of
dollars and you hit these projections, you'll be able to
buy this thing out for pennies and the dollar and
you'll have your life. You'll have where I believe you
should be and what I should what you should be
able to do with your life. And because of him
doing that and my you know, tenacious work ethic and

(08:20):
this newfound desire to go out and create my own
way instead of just living within the confines of the
blinders that I've been given at a young age, I'd
now broken out of that. And you know that's all
in the rearview now, man, I'd never looked back since
that was in twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
I bought him out.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
We scaled the three locations, we got a twelve and
a half million dollar valuation, and I didn't buy it
for anywhere near that. You know, he's stuck to his guns.
But that that's that's the Luke Lunkenheimer story.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Man.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
I know it's a long answer to your question. With
that kind of catches people up to where I'm at.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Today, So I want to say hello to my buddy
Steve loves AMMO. Steve has about four hundred and some
odd thousand followers on X and I think he probably
shared this out, So thank you, Steve. He's actually la
on the show tomorrow. Yeah, he's a good dude, lives
here in Texas. But so that that was a quick

(09:10):
run through. You know, this is breakthrough walls, right, so
I would love to hear. I'm sure it's not something
you're fond of reliving a lot the the the prison
stint you did. But was there when you when you
found yourself, there was there like a did you have

(09:34):
like a a moment a spiritual awakening so to speak,
where you were like what the what? What the blank?
Am I doing here? Why am I? Why am I here?
This is not me? I mean god, it sounds like
you came from a family with with money. If your
if your dad and your grandfather owned car dealerships, was

(09:57):
there a moment of clarity you had in prison?

Speaker 2 (10:01):
So yes, my grandfather owned a Ford store and my
dad was a general manager of a Ford store. Grandpa
sold the store many years ago, and Dad stayed in
the in the Ford business. Was a GM. I would
to say that I came from money. I really didn't.
You know, my father was probably one of the most
underpaid general managers in the car business and became very
bitter later on in life when he found out again

(10:22):
that he suffered from some significant naivete and realized that
he was worth a hell of a lot more than
he was paid. But I had to throw that one. So,
you know, I didn't come from money per se. But
I will certainly concede to the fact that I didn't
come from nothing, right. I was a middle class family,

(10:43):
you know parents, you know, collectively was a seventy eighty
thousand dollars a year household. We didn't starve, but we
weren't given you know, the path paid for us per sea.
The moment of awakening, there's a few you know what
I mean, there's a few moments where you really sit
and you reel back and you're like wow. And I
can tell you one of the most significant moments for
me was when, you know, when I got into Elmira

(11:06):
Correction Facility. That's a supermax facility and Huwshank redemption. Now
for a guy that had a drug problem and robbed
a bank with no weapon in a very kind way.
You're kind of looking around like, you know, these are
murderers and rapists and you know, heavyweight drug dealers, like
am I really supposed to be here? And then the
corrections officers gently remind you that a felon is a felon.

(11:28):
You all get thrown in the same basket if you're
from the same area. So it was about four o'clock.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
In the morning.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
I had been chained to the floor of a bus
all day. I had traveled from central New York out
to about Poughkeepsie and then all the way back to Elmira.
And you kind of learn similar to the legs of
flights on an airplane, you can fly to timbucktoo, to fly,
you know, three hours back and get forty five minutes
to the other side of where you originally started, because
that's just the way the planes go. Eight buses are

(11:57):
the same way. So we went from the center of
New York to one of the most eastern points of
New York back to one of the most western and
southern points, all on the same day, chained to the
floor of a bus with a you know, a blooney
sandwich given to you for nourishment, you know, and that's
the life prisoner, which you know I don't. There's no sympathy,
you know, for myself here it was a victim of
not a victim, but I was, you know, suffering from

(12:18):
the choices that I'd made. But that entire day chain
hunched over to the floor, and then finally you're like, awesome, reprieve,
we get to actually get into our cells now. And
that cell is a is a concrete slab with a pillow,
you know, a nylon pillow filled with ziplock bags, it
felt like, and I was trying to rest. It was

(12:38):
about four o'clock in the morning, and they had these
little headphones that you plugged into this jack in the
wall by your bed, and you got like, uh, what's
what's it called? Univision or the the the Hispanic channel,
I forget what it's called, but it's like Mike's excited
Latin after after the other channel was a soccer game,

(13:02):
some murderer mystery and keeping you in suspense from nineteen
Pelts and you're like, okay, I can deal with something
to get my mind out of here. But over the
noise of these little earbuds that are in your ears.
You just hear this roar, this unsettled roar, and you're
kind of half asleep and you're trying to figure out
what it is. You take the earbuds out and you

(13:23):
realize the entire gallery of people at four o'clock in
the morning is conversing, just yelling from cell to sell,
throwing paper, airplanes, talking, smoking cigarettes marijuana like it's three
o'clock in the afternoon. And what you end up learning
is that everybody kind of has their cycle, and nobody
really no one's in the city. There's no morning and evening,

(13:44):
and there's no settle down and go to sleep. It's
just constant noise. It's constant chaos, and for the human
brain to try to settle and have any sort of peace,
it's completely impossible. And that moment when I realized there
was nothing I could do about it. I couldn't take
a five dollars bill out of my pocket and buy
a set of earplugs because I was locked in a cage.
I couldn't ask them to quiet down because they would

(14:05):
shank me in the shower the next morning. I couldn't
get angry about it because I had done this to myself,
and you just realized in this moment of self loathing
that like, look what I've done to myself. You know,
this was all a great idea on the outside, when
I was dealing with no consequences to my actions and
continuing to do this negative, nefarious behavior. But that moment,
there's no peace, there's no serenity, and you cannot get

(14:29):
away from it. Is it is where you're at. That's
a difficult moment. And that was certainly a moment for
me where I had kind of an epiphany and realized
that I needed to make a change.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Wow. Prior to that, and again, most people know, I'm
a recovered alcoholic with almost coming up on twenty three years,
so I'm very familiar with making bad choices. I'm very
familiar were you But was there like when you're pained

(15:00):
in the bus and all of that, I mean, are
you still thinking, yeah, I wish I could have gotten
away with that. I could be I could have some
more drugs right now, or like, was there any moments
like that before you had the like, holy shit, what
am I doing?

Speaker 2 (15:15):
So there there were moments like that when I first
got arrested. But after you get through a few days
and the drug is not coursing through your veins anymore,
and you're starting to withdraw and have your really post
acute withdrawal symptoms. It's more of just misery. It's more
of just realizing that you're you're it's done. Like that
few moments of excitement and trying to do the thing

(15:38):
that you were trying to do led to you know,
you've just sentenced yourself for the next several years of
your life to this life that you're going to be
living that you're no longer in control. So you know,
were there moments where I was like, man, it'd be
a lot nicer if I was high in my living
room right now watching, of course, But you know I
flipped very quickly the moment that I was sick and

(15:58):
the drug was out of my box and I was
no longer in that rat race, like I wanted out
of it. Man.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
I can tell you.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
People ask me, you know, man, you robbed the bank
because you were so high? Man, that must be crazy.
I didn't rob the bank because I was high. Robbed
the bank because I wasn't high. Because I needed drugs
and I was sober and the pain of waking up
and remembering the nefarious behavior that you did the day before,
the people that you hurt, the bridges that you burnt,
it just becomes this boulder, this emotional boulder that chases you,

(16:26):
kind of like Indiana Jones. I think it's in a
temple of Doom where that boulder is just chasing after him.
I'm probably dating myself with that, but at least you
get what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
I do you know how you're dating me? Thank you.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
You just wake up every morning with this insurmountable anxiety
that's just overtaking you, and you have to get high
to get to get out of that vicious mental loop.
But you know, there were several moments like that for me.
But you know, once I got through at least the
thick of the worst part of it, I didn't want
to be back there. And I say to people, you know,

(17:00):
consciously I robbed the bank because I needed money, But
subconsciously I robbed the bank because I knew I was
going to get caught and I needed somebody to take
control for me, because I was destined for either jail
or death.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
So you robbed a bank, you said, with no weapon.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
Have you looked in the mirror. I mean, those look
like weapons to me, but so.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
So not nothing. But I entered jail two hundred and
two pounds. I now stand two hundred and eighty five pounds.
Oh shit, I got out of prison. I've put on
about sixty five pounds.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Oh my god. Wow, I'm not a chubby guy.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
For those that are listening, not watching, it's a solid
to eighty five. I would pass Andy Elliott's six pack test.
But you know, it's funny. I've been to Andy Elliott's
place and they don't all have six packs.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
I promise you that. Oh god, I can't stand. I'll
never mind.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
I will leave that there. We'll leave that there.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
I'll say this. Andy will never be on this show.
So so okay. So in when you were incarcerated, you
had you had this moment and you how long were
you even it? I don't even know how long you.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Were were collectively, man, I've spent you know, over I
believe two and a half years locked up, but that
stint itself was only a year.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Oh wow, yep. So because you didn't you didn't use a.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Weapon, Well, you know, when you come into one thing,
I will say, there's a lot of things I don't
like about living in the state of New York, and
the list is far longer than the things I do
like by a long shot. But if there's one thing
that a very progressive liberal state does, it gives incarcerated
people options. And they basically said, via a jail counselor listen,

(18:52):
if you're willing to admit that you have a drug problem,
and you're willing to go to a program to rehabilitate
that drug problem, we'll take it easy on you. But
if you want want to go to jail and you
want to do the hard time and get the packages
sent in and you know, bid up like Tony Soprano,
then you're going to go live that life. But if
you actually want to try to re enter society as
a participating, tax paying good human being, then we'll give

(19:13):
you a chance. We'll take it easily on you, but
if you screw it up, we're going to throw the
book at you. And I was willing to take that
risk because I truly wanted rehabilitation, and I wasn't you know,
I was very arrogant. I didn't believe that some sort
of New York state, you know, prescribed corrections program was
going to heal me of my drug addiction. But I'll
tell you, you know, it wasn't necessarily their curriculum that did,

(19:34):
but it was the experience. They sent me to what's
called a shock incarceration correction facility, and that's up in
the mountains of Mariah, New York, right on the Vermont
border where during the wintertime, which is when I was there.
I spent my thirtieth birthday in prison, which was in February,
and it was about negative seventeen degrees. They give you
a set of little, you know, leather work gloves and

(19:56):
you're in literally, you know, just just fabric, just fabric
clothes and a denim jacket, and it's hell on earth.
You wake up at four o'clock in the morning. They're
beating trash can screaming and you're blowing a whistle. You
gotta get out. It's a paramilitary boot camp, you know.
It's wow, three hots and a cot and you get
a one and a half minute shower each day while
someone's staring at you, screaming at you're blowing a whistle,

(20:16):
I'll tell you, And it's just incessant for six months.
That is your existence. And if you can deal with it.
You can go home in six months. Well, I signed
up for that program, and my paperwork somehow got lost
in reception, and I didn't end up seeing a jail
counselor until I was already in reception for four months,
and then another two months to get to my corrections
facility through their transit via the stops that you make

(20:39):
in the reception facilities. So I was six months into
my bid when my six month program started. So I
ended up doing an entire year, which I was only
supposed to do six months. But everything happens for a reason, man,
and everything laid out the way it did, and it
led me here today. I have no qualms about how
any of it went down.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
So so you so you goes sounds like pretty intense.
The second six months sounds like it may have been
way more intense than the first six months in their
own ways.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
You know, I watched human beings get their lives taken
and bleed out in front of me. When I was
in prison. I had to defend myself a couple of times,
pretty brutally, one time in the shower. You know, the
stories that you hear are very wrong and very right.
All at the same time, the violence happens. It's not
for the reasons that you see on TV, but there's
definitely you either it's a kill or be killed scenario,

(21:32):
you know, And I'll just leave it there metaphorically. But yeah,
it was difficult, and it certainly it certainly toughens you up,
but it leathers your skin. And it's funny because you know,
doing what I do now, your scope of human beings
and how you understand them increases significantly and gets a
lot deeper depth to it when you've been through that

(21:52):
type of scenario. So you know, just that's a side
note there to the efficacy of what I do. But
you know, the second six months is just as difficult
in its own way. One was a physical test and
a test of your resolve. The other was a mental
test and a test of your willpower. So both very
equally difficult, I would say.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
So, so you get through all of this, and I again,
I can't, I can't imagine. I'm so I gotta be. Look,
I'm I'm as real as it gets, man, I'm sitting
here going, Okay, how the hell do you rob a
bank with no weapon? Like? How do how does how
do you do that? Like, Hey, I'm gonna throw water
balloons at you if you don't give me some I mean,

(22:35):
how does what what? I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
I'm sorry, you're I get that you don't get it.
And part of that's got to do with the fact
that you're from Texas.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Okay, what, I'm from Ohio. Dude, I live in Texas.
I'm from Ohio.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
So you and I both know that if I went
into a bank in Texas and said that that, there
would be a couple of revolvers pointed at my head
from the patrons of the bank. Yes, there would be
some larry in there with a six shooter on his hip.
They would say, oh, hell no, you ain't robbing. Go
I get out of here. Right In New York it's

(23:10):
far different. And in New York there's a lot of
different policies in the bank. And you know, I've always
been an intelligent guy, you know, And I'm not saying
that out of arrogance. I just you know, the receipts
are there. And when I was planning this heist, I
discovered that I was able to access security procedures and
protocols for this credit union on the Internet. They were

(23:31):
open source, and I read I believed that this was
the case, so I read into it, and I discovered
that any threat of robbery at the lending at the
financial institution for that particular bank is to be met
by the staff with absolute concession. If someone says give
me the money, you say, okay. They don't have to
brandish a weapon, they don't have to threatn violence. The

(23:52):
point is our money is ensured. Get the threat out
at any cost, given what they want, you know, as
long as they're not taking a hostage. If they come
in and then say give me your cherry coke, the
money and the rubber duck with the company logo off
the shelf, you give it to him, no problem, have
a nice day. So when I you, know ingress that bank,
I looked around quickly and realized that it was a

(24:14):
very winnable situation. And I had already pot committed at
that point. And it's very simple. I just said, you know, ladies,
good afternoon. I think it's pretty obvious based on my
attire what I'm here to do today. You know, this
was this was pre coronavirus. Wearing a face mask into
a bank wasn't a normal thing, right right, And they
just kind of looked at me, and I said, I
want you to take the money out of the drawers.
I don't want anything from the deposits. I don't want

(24:36):
anything from the vault. Just fan out your tray on
the counter. Let me see every bill. I don't want
any tracers or die packs. And if you do what
I ask, I'll be out of your hair very quickly.
I only want money from two tallers, you and you.
And then y'all kind of looked at me, and that's
when it hit me, and the heart rates started going up,
like they might just say, no, I don't have a gun.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
These fifty year old women. I'm not going to harm
a hair on their head. That's not in my nature.
And then I just looked at them and I went,
I'm serious. Move And then they started moving and they
put the money out and I scooped it up and
I told him as I was leaving, listen, no one's
gonna get hurt. You're all going to go home and
see your family s think if your cooperation, God bless
turned around. And it would have been picturesque if it
was that, but I didn't. I tripped over the velvet

(25:20):
rope on the way out and stumbled a little bit,
didn't fall, but it just it was so beautiful, it
was so seamless, and that one little thing to give
away my movie theater moment, but the rest of it
was was pretty uh pretty seamless.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Oh my god. So so okay, So you that's just
insane to me, Like I can't even imagine. Of course,
everybody's been broke before and thought, you know, I could
be unbroke if I just went and robbed a bank.
This is very true, but but yeah, it's the it's

(25:52):
the consequences that suck your mindset.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
At that time, it for me was you know, man,
pretty please. So you know, in that time, the woman
that I was with, I was quite confident, was no
longer interested in being with me, and I cared deeply
for her. And it was like, okay, so I'm losing
my girlfriend. And then it was like I don't have
a car, I've lost my license, I can't go back

(26:18):
and sell cars, not going to have a place to live.
I'm pawning off things that don't belong to me every
morning to get the money to put gas in the
car to go rob more things to sell those at
the pawn shop, to buy my drugs and buy back
the things that belong to other people that I pawned earlier,
put those back in the house. The anxiety, you just
get to a point where you know you've bitten your
nails down through to the quick and you're starting to
chew nubs off the ends of your finger, your skin's

(26:39):
pale white, your male nurse and you just look in
the mirror and you don't remember who you are anymore.
So you kind of have that conversation with yourself of
what's the point of me even being here? Like I'm
not contributing in any way. I don't have any children,
I don't have a relationship. I'm only harming the people
I come into contact with every day. Is pure misery
and terror, Like this really isn't You know, most people
don't get to this point, but some people do. And

(27:01):
when you get to the point where life seems easier,
if it's not, then if you have to wake up
again and go through this whole thing again tomorrow, you
can very easily come to the conclusion that robbing a
bank is a great idea, because you know it's a dichotomy.
I either get the money and I escape and I
go live somewhere else with you know, a fresh ten
to twenty grand in my pocket, or I get arrested

(27:22):
and then somebody takes control from me and I'm in
prison and I at least have a place to stay.
You know, when you get down to that rock bottom
of a low ken, you'd be amazed at how easy
you could make that decision. The secondary portion of it, too,
is I've always been a non risk averse person. I've
always suffered from extreme behavior anything. You know. I was
the guy that when everybody else would jump the bike ramp,
I would climb on the top of my log cabin

(27:44):
and jump my bike off the log cabin onto the ramp.
And I've always been one to go to the nth
degree and the extreme with everything. So there's a very
viable decision for me. Made a whole lot of sense
at the time.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Quite frankly, I think that's called psychosis or something. Pretty sure.
I'm just playing so so so Okay, you get out,
you do your year, you get out. Man, it's got
to feel like your your choices in life are even

(28:16):
more limited at that point, Like what happened from there? Where?
Where did? Where? Did things start to move for you?

Speaker 2 (28:23):
So it's funny you say it, it seems like at
that point your choices in life would be more limited.
I never felt better about the path that was ahead
of me. And I'll explain to you why. When you
are anchored to opiates and your life is just this
relentless pursuit of money to get drugs, to get high,
to get more money to get drugs, and it's this

(28:44):
never ending cycle where you see no forward progress, you
see no happiness, you see no satiation. You just see
this never ending cycle of nefarious behavior and difficult, difficult times.
It's it's very easy to give up on life and
have nothing to look forward to. When you get out

(29:04):
of prison and you're clean of opiate addiction, you no
longer wake up craving a pill. You no longer go
to bed with a fever in bone, aches and chills
because your body's craving the drug. You listen to a
Metallica song and you get goosebumps again. You talk to
a family member on the phone and you get emotional
and tari eyed. You know when you start to have
normal emotions and normal thought processes, and you no longer

(29:28):
have this just this evil poison coursing through your veins
that you're so physically and mentally dependent on. You'd be
amazed at how much opportunity it seems in front of
you at that stage of the game. So when I
got out of prison, man and I walked down that
I was happy to be released, but I was even
more happy that I was able to finally go out
and take on the world without having to rely on

(29:50):
drugs because, ken to be honest with you, from the
age of twelve, I was introduced to drugs and alcohol.
And you know, i'd be sixteen, seventeen years old driving
my forward tourists to school, drinking couors and smoking cigarettes
on the way to school. Okay, So this is something
that was lived within me for, you know, since adolescence.
So now imagine you're thirty years old and you no

(30:12):
longer depend on substances. You're free. It's like having this amazing,
tremendous ball and chain removed from your leg. It was very,
very eye opening, and it was just there was a
lot of runway ahead of me at that point. So
I know, to you and to everybody else, it would
seem like, man, what am I going to do now
I'm out of jail. I got nothing I got for me?
It was no, Thank God, I have a clean slate,

(30:33):
I have a fresh start. Where do I go from here?
And I had a very simple plan, and it was
get your asked to work, work hard, get some money
in your pocket, and start showing people what you're made of.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
I'll tell well, I can relate. I can't relate to
the prison thing, by the grace of God, but I
I can. You know, when I got sober, I heard
in a meeting one time that sober is an acronym
for son of a bitch. Everything's real, yeah, right, all
of a sudden, you're like, for the first time, and

(31:03):
from my case, since I was eight or nine years old,
but for the first time in my life, I'm like,
holy shit, I have to feel everything now, like what
is going on here? And and I remember the song
by Creed my own Prison, Like dude, that is literally

(31:23):
I've listened to that thousands of times and because that's
what I lived in my own freaking prison, and it
manifested itself and everything I was doing in life, and
I know everything you just I got chills, dude, Like
everything you just said I can so relate to. I
don't know that everybody watching. We have twelve hundred and

(31:44):
some odd people watching right now, but you know, I
don't know that they can all relate to it. But
we've all been through shit in life and come out
on the other side and go, what was that? So
so talk about how you got into what you're doing now.

(32:06):
I mean, what you're doing now, you're changing lives and
and and thank you, by the way for sharing your story.
It's so powerful and I think it's necessary that people
hear it. Thank you, brother. I believe it is.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
You know, a lot of guys don't like sharing the
dark side, but you can't understand the good stuff without
understanding the bad stuff.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
And amen, I believe that.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Those are the receipts that prove that I'm qualified to
speak from the platform that I speak from. You know,
a lot of guys, I sold this many things and
that many things, and I was the top dat da da,
and I'm going to train you how to do it.
I sold this much in my industry and blah d
dah and da da and it's like, okay, man, But like,
what did you really do, like, what did you experience?
What can you teach me to say the things that

(32:49):
you said to get people to say yes? Because I'm
not so sure that's going to work for me because
I'm not you, Or do you actually have a very
very good and fundamental understanding of people, human beings, the discourse,
how it transpires, why people do what they do, or
you just sell me word tracks and scripts, and if
you look at the marketplace at large, there is not
a single individual that is well known that in that

(33:12):
marketplace now that has not products tied words and phrases.
You're one hundred percent right, brother, I know, but at
the end of the day, you know that past is
what and I mentioned this actually with Dan Gordon yesterday.
Those situations are what showed me and proved to me

(33:35):
that all human beings are fundamentally the same. You know,
I grew up thinking, well, the rich people are going
to be sold a certain way, and the broke people
they're an easy sell, and the middle class people they're
kind of a tough sell, but they can be sold.
And if someone's got, you know, an engineering degree, they're
going to be a more difficult sell. They're more analytical
and if someone is a you know, of this particular ethnicity,

(33:57):
they're a harder negotiator. And what you end up learning
is that human behavioral patterns are consistent. Whether it is
a middle class mother of three, whether it is a
Mexican immigrant at Eagle Pass, whether it is a rapist
or a murderer in Almira Correction facility, or whether it's
a politician on Capitol Hill or it's Jeff Bezos. The

(34:17):
same things motivate people, the same things drive their emotions,
the same emotions drive their decisions, and the same path
can be taken to a sale every single time, as
long as the information that you garner is from the individual,
not from you and what you're trying to bring to
them in the path that you're trying to send them down.

(34:37):
But if you cultivate the information from their head and
you parlay that information in the sale, that is a superpower.
And I don't see anybody training that. And that's what
I do.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
I agree, And I I have friends Grant Cardon as
a friend of mine. I've had Brian tracy On on
the show, who's a legend in sales training. I think
that you're one thousand percent right. Man, there's a lot
of people out here, and I'm not saying Grant and

(35:11):
all of these, but there's a lot of people that
are selling word tracks. And I've been through, You've been through,
You've had to like, oh, okay, I'll memorize this.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
I was on the Grant cardone train for a while
and I got just so you know, if Grant was
here right now, I do nothing but high five men
showing respect. The man as a badass through life, and
he's a badass, dude.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
I think there's a major difference between a tremendous salesperson
turned trainer who has productized their way of selling and
an educator. I think those are two very different things,
and I fancy myself an educator for a slew of
reasons that I won't you know, go in and list
right now. But Brian Tracy is a legend. You know yourself,

(35:56):
You know Joe Ingram. These are guys that you know
have a very strong grasp on the only ones that
are different than You're absolutely right, Joe. But to date,
every sales trainer or sales coach that I have seen
has their productized selling process where if they say this,

(36:16):
you say that, and these are these types of questions,
and these are these types of tonalities, and it's just
not how I believe sales needs to be trained today. Okay, right.
Grant Cardon was highly effective during his time. So was Brian,
so was Joe Vertie zig Zigler. You know, anybody that
has done it and had success had to do it
some form of right, otherwise they wouldn't have had success.

(36:37):
The marketplace rejects you if you don't bring value, which
is why some guys are feeling the burn right now.
But the marketplace also changes ken coronavirus, the whole COVID
pandemic did a number for consumer sentiment and behavior when
Grant Cardon was training salespeople. If you walked back into
a grocery store and told them I didn't like this stake,

(36:58):
they would say, you should have realized you didn't like
it on the first bite and brought back the rest
of the stake, like we're not going to return that today.
Cost code encourages you. If you eat a meal from
us and you don't like it, just bring back this
styrofoam tray. We don't even need a receipt. We'll refund
your card. If you didn't like it, Like you cannot
train sales the same way in an ecosystem in a

(37:19):
marketplace like that versus the marketplace of today. Something has
to change. And that's what I believe we've done different
than everybody else.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
So so talk about it. Talk about what is what
are the fundamental differences that people can expect to experience
in your ecosystem if being trained by you? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Brother, so this I've been asked this question a million
different ways, and the best way I can answer it
is this. Anytime I'm on a podcast and we're talking sales,
or anytime I'm being interviewed by anybody or training a team,
the questions are always Well, if a customer says they
need to talk to their wife, what should you say
to them? And to that, I say, why is your

(38:02):
customer saying they need to talk to their wife? Well,
because it's an objection. You get the objection. Why didn't
we solve for the third party at the outset of
the conversation? Why are we showing a product or service
to somebody who doesn't have the ability to engage? Well,
because they didn't tell me until now. Why did you
wait for them to tell you? You're in sales, you
know that that an issue. You know you need to

(38:23):
have all decision makers present. Why didn't we have this
conversation the outset? But to take it further man, they say, okay,
and I had somebody ask me yesterday, Okay, what do
I do? Tell us something? What do I do if
I'm talking to a customer and I want them to
really get emotional about this? You know what do I say?
And it's like, my friend, you've got it, So pardon

(38:45):
the expression asked backwards. It's not about what you say.
There is nothing that I can cultivate or create up
here and deploy out of here that is going to
change the way my customer feels emotionally spirit truly, however,
they're going to make that decision, which we all know
realize in emotion. It's justified by logic, but it's based
in emotion. It's triggered by emotion. There's nothing you're going

(39:08):
to say that's going to trigger that unless you've farmed
that information from the customer and you know what's going
to make them emoental. You know what their triggers are.
You know why they're here looking at this product. The
bottom line is this this mindset of what can I
say to get the customer to do X needs to

(39:29):
fundamentally change to what question do I need to ask
to get the information that I need? And then folks
will say, well, that's already being done. There's these questioning
frameworks and this, that and the third. It's not the question,
it's the answer. Okay, there's all the scripts out there.
There's a particular trainer that has a big book of
questions and all these different questions and tonalities and so

(39:50):
on and so over. It's like great, So when you say, wow,
mister customer, how do you think that my product could
even I don't know, even even help you get to
where you're looking to get to And they go, I
don't know, it seems pretty good.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Well then hey, hang on, let me just.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
What where are you currently right now and what do
you think it's going to take to get where you
need to be?

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
That's why I'm on the phone with you, Okay, So
let me ask you this question.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
What would you say, is.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
The pain that you're feeling that's not allowing you to
get the desired result?

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Right?

Speaker 2 (40:30):
I don't know. My guys are just on't doing what
I need them to do. Like no, the questioning of
the customer, it's not about what you say. It's never
been about what you say. It's somebody picked up on it.
It's never going to be about what you say to
the customer. It's always going to be about what the
customer says to you. And I can tell you right now, man,

(40:52):
you want actionable information for your audience. You want people
to walk away from this podcast with a takeaway that
they can execute on right now and sell more. It's
very simple. We call it the Big three. Okay, but
there's a caveat here. The Big three is three questions,
what brought you here today? What is your buying power?
And what did you hope to accomplish? And people say
all the veterans stales go go. I ask every customer that, okay, Smarty.

(41:14):
So when you say, well, what brought let's let's take
the car dealership for instance. We're talking about Cardon. What
brought you here today? Mister? Well, I'm looking for a truck.
What's the next thing? The salesperson says, Ken, we have those, yeah,
or what kind of truck? Right right, right right? I'm
looking for a tundra. Okay, we sell new tundras. Did
you want a crew cavern extended cav? I want an

(41:36):
extended cav Okay, did you want a four wheel drive? To
and they go on this journey to show them a product.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Okay, the thank you.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
The problem here is that you're simply taking the customer
down a journey that's driven by you. Right, what brought
you here today is what actually brought you here today?
What brought you here today, mister customer? Oh, I'm looking
for a truck hope, So, sir, because you're at a
car dealership. I'm sorry, silly question. No, just out of curiosity.

(42:05):
Why today? Why is today the day?

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Because I just totaled my truck. Oh, now we have
a nuggative information. Oh okay, you just told your truck. Interesting.
Average salesperson goes, man, you totaled your truck. He totaled
his truck. Sweet, this is going to be a clean deal.
Assassin level salesperson goes oh, gotcha. So the guy coadjuster
has already been to your house. They've already looked at
the vehicle, They've already sent you the email you've already
mailed in the title you've already got your check. Oh no,

(42:29):
I just crashed it two days ago. Oh has the
claims adjuster you've been to your house? No? Not yet.
Oh okay, so we're we don't even know it's total
then yet technically no. The average salesperson will take that guy,
show them seven different trucks, try to narrow it down
to the perfect one, and then nail the money right
on the head to get int the payments to where
they need to be, and then bring them to the
closing table. And that guy's going to say, well, I

(42:51):
like him, man, it's a great deal. Yeah, I just
want to think about it. And then your sales trainers say,
oh you want to think about it?

Speaker 1 (42:57):
What was day? Think we're doing tomorrow? Worth doing today?

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Not? If he doesn't have the money, jack, your work
checks don't work if your customer doesn't have the ability
to engage. That happens during the discovery process. So what
we do differently, Ken is we teach people how to
understand people. We teach them what drives them, what their
motivations are, why they make the decisions that they do.
And we also teach them all of these I mean,
endless hacks about how how to get the customer to

(43:22):
respond the way you need them to. For instance, Ken,
if people are in sales and they don't know that
getting a customer to engage in self talk is not
about building rapport. Well, my trainer, my coach, my manager
tells me to talk to my customer. You're going to
talk about theirselves so we can find similarities between ourselves
and maybe their kids play lacrosse and my kids play lacross.
People buy from the people they trust. Pardon my friends,

(43:45):
I don't know what the swearing rules are.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
We speak French here.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Okay, bullshit, Okay, your customer does not buy from someone
they trust. Let me ask you a question. Can you
ever been burnt in the past?

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, okay when you bought, when you bought from that
individual screwed you over, did you feel completely wholesome about
that transaction? Say that again, when you got screwed over,
whatever the situation was. Let's say a salesman got you
a bad deal when you bought. Did you feel completely

(44:15):
wholesome about that deal or did you kind of have
you know, that hair standing up on the back of
your neck. Right, so you didn't trust them?

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Right?

Speaker 2 (44:23):
You didn't buy from somebody you trusted. You bought from
somebody who gave you a value proposition, and you said, dude,
this is way too good to pass up. I mean,
my gut's telling me not to do this. But if
I miss out on this and this is actually what
he says it is, I'm going to kick myself to around.
You know what, screw it, Let's do it. So you
do it, so the whole logic behind people buy it
from the people they trust. It helps if someone trusts you,

(44:45):
But the value proposition and compelling someone in a mindset
where they believe the value far exceeds the ask any
day of the week is going to blow that people
buy from the people they trust out of the water.
And if you're in sales and you don't understand that,
getting a customer to talk about themselves it's not about
building rapport and building a trust month. It's about dopamine.

(45:05):
It's about a chemical that's secreted in the human body.
When someone engages in self talk, they're free. Dopamine rises
by as much as forty percent. Crack cocaine get you
something like four hundred percent. Marijuana opi it's get you
something like one hundred to three hundred percent. Okay, sex, nicotine,
the caffeine, these are things that get you between twenty

(45:26):
and fifty percent. So if getting someone to engage in
self talk elevates their dopamine to a similar level as
good sex, don't you think that you're in a really
good position to compel them to make an emotional decision
at that time. Furthermore, if you don't know that twenty
minutes or so after that moment, they're experiencing what's called
a dopamine trough, they're in a deficit, they're slightly depressed,

(45:47):
they're kind of lethargic. If you don't know these things,
you can be so counterproductive in you're selling. You're doing
and deploying what you think is going to be helpful,
but you're absolutely stepping on your own feet. And it's
these things that are so important that don't live anywhere
in the ecosystem of sales training today. And it's like
they're the magic cards man, and nobody's playing them. It

(46:08):
drives me insane.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
I pobre no no no no, I love it man.
This is this is my this is look he just
listed off my weekend checklist. So so you know when
when you're because I talk a lot about you got

(46:32):
to just connect with people and and and you have
to accept that not everybody's going to like you, not
everybody's going to do business with you. Like it's just
not going to happen. What is it that you you know,
because you're talking car dealerships with these I've never sold cars. Well,
I take that back. I did. I did one day

(46:54):
in a dealership in Atlanta a long time ago. I
got fired because I let to let the customer on
the demo do do donuts in a parking lot and
a jeep. He was trying to flip it. I said,
it won't flip, do it? And I got fired. I said, well,
I guess I'm not gonna be in car sales because

(47:15):
I was like, dude, that's his number one objection. I'm
not buying this jeep because I think it's a top
heavy it's gonna flip. I'm like, it won't flip. He's like,
it'll flip. I'm like, do some donuts, dude. I got
in trouble. But anyways, so but I have sold a lot,
and I think that it's important to make a connection.

(47:37):
But you know, and I know that there are people
that will walk in call or that you're cold calling,
or whatever. The scenario is that you can't connect with
because they have a some kind of an emotional wall up,
or they're an engineer and you're not an engineer, and
the it's oil and water, and it makes it very

(47:59):
difficult to connect with those people. How do you deal
with that with people that you can't make that connection with.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Well, Kenn, it's not about trying to force the connection.
It's about redefining what you consider a connection. I consider
a connection a transaction. Okay, if that person purchases from
me and gives me their money, we've connected all we
need to connect. And I don't mean that in a
in a crass way like I just care about the money.
It's not what I mean. This individual may have an

(48:28):
emotional wall up, but if I get them to transact
with me, that means I've circumvented that emotional wall just
by nature of the fact that they've done business with me.
So if you maintain your focus on simply servicing that
customer and getting the transaction done, it would be people
would be fundamentally so much better at sales. Let me
give you an example. Engineer comes in, right, well, what's

(48:49):
the cubic centimeters on this engine or the insurance policy
I have given these circumstances, you know, if come maybe
what would be the outcome? Let's say you don't know that.
Most salespeople would go, well, it's an engineer in timidated,
I don't have the answer. Well, I've not one hundred
percent sure. Let me try to figure it out for you.
Whereas an assassin level salesperson or somebody who's trained by
us would go, mister customer, it sounds they would do

(49:09):
the active listening response okay at ALR we call it.
They would reiterate back to the customer in their own words,
what they believe it is they're trying to solve. So,
mister Cusmer, it sounds like in the venue here of
buying life insurance, what's very important to you is knowing
that if X, Y, and Z happened, what would be
the outcome? Am I hearing that correctly?

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Okay, that's a great question. Frankly, now that I hear
you ask the question, I'm amazed. I've never been asked
it before, But please bear with me. I have never
been asked that question before. I'm going to get you
that answer right now, because I feel it's going to
be imperative moving forward that I give that information to people.
Because that's a great question. Would you mind giving me
thirty seconds to solve that for you? Your engineer is

(49:49):
not going to say no, he's going to say I
appreciate that, Please do that. Okay, you buy yourself thirty seconds,
you get to answer. You frame it well, mister customer,
not for nothing. But I'm so glad that you made
me ask that question because I learned something along with
you today and that's boom boom bop. And that's exactly
why you know, I'm just now that much more excited
that I sell this product because that's that's a great outcome.

(50:10):
Wouldn't you agree?

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (50:11):
I would? Okay, great? What else can I do for you?

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Right?

Speaker 2 (50:14):
It's all in how you react to the situation, right,
So connection salespeople are too worried about well, I gotta
get connected. I gotta get them laughing, I gotta get
them liking me. I gotta get them you know, in lockstep.
But no, you don't. You have to service their need.
It's very simple. You have to go in their brain
and say, why are you here? Oh, you're here because
you want this product. You believe it should service these

(50:35):
needs and it should end up around this price range. Okay, hey,
not for nothing. But if I had a way to
facilitate that for you and I could get it done today,
what were you hoping to accomplish? Were you hoping to
transact or is this just an information gathering mission?

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (50:49):
No, I'd like to transact. Okay, no problem. Let me
just see if I can get that done for you. Right. So,
to answer your question simply, ken, if you completely reframe
what you think of connection is, there will be far
less stress upon you to make some sort of spiritual,
emotional or friend type connection with your customer and just
service their need because if they transact with you, I
implore you, that's all the connection that you need.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Great answer, man, Holy crap, thank you. That was great.
So what is who is your avatar? Who's your customer?

Speaker 2 (51:23):
So you know everybody wants to say everybody, right, but
we service people all the way from you know, we
call it zero to one hundred, right, So there's the
zero to sixty salespeople who are brand new, they've never
done sales before. They want to get into it, and
we train them from zero to sixty, right, and then
there's the right around fifty five miles an hour, and

(51:43):
they'd like to break into that above the speed limit
range of getting one hundred grand a year, one hundred
and fifty grand a year, right. We serve those people
as well. And then we have the individuals that are
making one hundred and fifty two hundred grand a year.
They want to hit that half a million plus mark,
and we can service that clientele as well. But if
I had to narrow it down to one particular avatar
right now in this part of the life cycle of

(52:04):
paid to persuade, I would say that if you're in sales,
and you've been in sales for a little bit, anywhere
from six months to sixteen years, and you are exhausted
with the white noise and the nonsense that exists out there,
all of the word track and rebuttal and the cute
social media videos and the take your shirt off or
you're fired, and the black books of questions and the

(52:27):
Russell brunts and click funnels, and then no disrespect to
any of these people, but that is the terrain that
they're operating on, and everybody knows exactly what I'm talking about.
If you're just done with that, if you realize that
it's not the vessel or the conduit that the information
lives upon, it's the information itself, and you want something
that is fundamentally better. Someone that is here focused on

(52:50):
servicing the salesperson and shouting from the rooftops that they're
great off the back of a testimonial, not off the
back of a damn trophy or a mass or mind
stage with a wired headset on. Then that's who paid
to persuade us here, to serve. You've been there, you've
done that, you bought the T shirt, and you're just
sick of it. And I liken it to this. Everybody's

(53:10):
been most of everybody's been.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
To a fair.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Right, they go into a fair or a carnival, and
there's that tent, see the amazing wonders of the world.
We've got the bearded lady, We've got the twenty foot sneak,
we've got the three headed goat. Right, and you're outside
and you're like, man, it's only I mean, god, it's
thirty bucks. I don't really have thirty bucks to get up,
give up? But what if what if the answer was

(53:34):
really in there? What if I could finally see the
things that I've always wanted to see that are so
crazy and so mystical. Ah, you know what, I'm gonna
do it. And you spend the money and you get
in there, and the first thing you see is this
little python with a with another twenty foot taped to it, like, well,
that's nonsense. And then you get to the bearded lady
and it's just some old Samoan woman who hasn't shaved

(53:56):
your facial hair.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
And then you get to the.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Three headed goat and it's just a goat with a
little deformity hanging off the side, right.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
And you walk through there, and here's what you can't do.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
You can't call bull crap because they've done what they
said they were going to do. They didn't say it
was a live anaconda. They didn't say the bearded lady
had a huge, massive beard like the one that was
depicted on the poster. They didn't say the three headed
goat would talk to you. Right, So you got what
they told you you were gonna get, but boy was
it misrepresented. And you walk out of that tent feeling

(54:25):
like your rear end is pretty sore. Right, that's sales
training of today, big flashy poster, big hyperbolic claim. But
then for all these people that have paid the money
to enter the circus and got on the other side
and found out that it's just all a bunch of
song and dance and hypeie bullshit and framed questions and
word tracks, and no one's there to actually hold their

(54:47):
hand and take them across the finish line.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
It's all right, football, there's the end zone. Do your best.
It's ugly out there, but we gave you a good
set of.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Cleats horses, right. No, we guarantee success paid the It
is the only sales training company that I know of
in existence that guarantees a minimum twenty percent increase in
your annual income. And if we don't get all your
money back, So if you're making one hundred grand a year,
you'll get one hundred and twenty bar none, no questions
asked in in pen contract or we'll give you your

(55:15):
money back, And sixty goes to seventy two, and two
hundred goes to two forty and so on and so forth.
And that's the minimum. And if individuals know anything about
the marketplace. They know that the minimum is the minimum.
If we're claiming the minimum, the majority is getting well
above that. So wow, we're here to serve the people
who have seen the shitty three headed goat and the
three haired bearded lady and are sick of the nonsense

(55:36):
inside the circus and they actually want results. That's our
avatar get.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
The LinkedIn user says the average funnel one oh one
on right. Brother, So wow, lou, you're intent about this.
I love that. What made you decide to get into this?
I mean you could have gone back to whatever, right,
I mean, what made you decide to get into this?

Speaker 2 (56:05):
That's a boy, that's a slippery slope.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Brother, Hold it. I assume it had to do with
you were involved in and other programs that it just
didn't like.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
I'll just tell you, Okay, I've always danced around this story,
but we're on breakthrough walls, so we'll break the story.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Here.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
We got you said you got thousands some people watching
right now.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
We have sixteen hundred and some odd people right.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Now, all right, So I will leave it to their
imagination to fill in the blanks of whom I'm referring to. Okay,
but imagine if you're a car dealer. You start your
business in twenty sixteen. By twenty twenty, you've got three stories.
You're kicking ass and taking names. You're a millionaire who
was once in prison not too long ago. Like things
are going really good. You eventually learned that you're not

(56:52):
really a fantastic car dealer. You're a good car dealer. Okay,
I understand what you're saying, brother, I know exactly what
you're referring to. I'm just referencing the LinkedIn user's comment
there and thank you for that. So you realize that
you're not like, you're good at acquiring inventory. You're a
good car guy, but it's not like you're the best.
You're good at marketing. You work with a good marketing team,

(57:12):
but it's not like they're the best. What you end
up learning because your vendors, your wholesalers, all the people
that in gress and negress your facility. They're like, dude,
where did you get these salespeople? Like what are you
talking about? Where did you get that guy? He was
a Freihoffer's bread guy. I mean I trained him. Well,
where'd you get that guy? He worked for Verizon at
a Kiosk taking payments. I trained him. What about that guy, Well,
he was a mall security guard stareing at close circuit

(57:34):
TV screens for eighty hours a week. I trained him.
You trained all these people? Yes, dude, what do you do?
What do you mean why? Because bro, the way they
talk to cot, they close everything. I know that's what
I've taught them to do. Yeah, but dude, people like
these guys are good and I'm like, yeah, I know.
And you end up hearing this enough, you know, and
everybody has a little bit of imposter syndrome in So

(57:56):
you're this used car dealer in central New York and
you're kicking ass and taking and topping all the charts,
but you think it's just because you're a hard worker.
And then you start to hear this over and over
and over again, and you're like, well, what if I
just am really good at training salespeople? What if that's
what it is. So I hired a whole new group
of guys for a new store that we were opening,
and I compartmentalized kind of my training. I productized it

(58:18):
that acted as if it were a thing that could
be deployed without me, and I gave it to them,
and they still executed at the same level of efficacy.
And I realized, it's not that I'm just a great cardet,
because I'm a marginal card dealer, a decent card dealer.
But the reason that we are so damn strong and
our average grosses are twenty five percent higher than the competition,
and our customer attention is better and our book deployments

(58:40):
are better is just because I'm really good at teaching
these guys how they need to behave with customers and
what they need to do to get the money. So
it's like, man, I'm kind of proud of that, and
it just kind of lives in the back of your head.
And then myself personally, I've gone to one of Grant
Cardoons' growth cons in twenty twenty and it was motivating,
but like the whole sales portion of it, I'm like,
this is really I looked at their sales training and

(59:02):
I'm like, this is not this. This reminds me of
the stuff I used to walk on the video disc
player and my dad's Ford dealership in the nineties. This
is nothing that's new, right, And then as time went on,
the National Independent Auto Dealers Association reached out to me
and they asked me to speak. At excuse me, I
entered a thing to speak, they chose me to speak.
They ended up making me a featured speaker once they

(59:24):
heard my story. They then had the editor of Used
Car Dealer magazine reach out to me to do an article.
So I arrived in Las Vegas at the Wind Casino
to do my featured speaker gig. And when I arrive,
I see that I'm on the cover of the program,
and I'm on the cover of Used Car Dealer magazine,
and my head's on this giant digital billboard. It's like
the Niada convention and Luke Lunkenheimer, I'm like.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Wow, is this? Like? I had no idea.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
So I go in there and people are asking me
for autographs and want to take pictures of me, and
it was very weird, right, But what it did was
it gave me some authority within the conference that I
could kind of travel and people looked at me as
some So I thank you, Joe. So I give my
talk and I packed the room. They ended up putting
me in a bigger room the next year because I

(01:00:08):
packed the room. And this is not raggedocho. This is
just this is a mean give contact the story. So
I go out in the expo hall. It's like one
of the last days and and I'm like, man, I
gave my talk. This is a great time. That the
Niada was so good to me, and the wind Hotel
was beautiful. They did a great job. So I'm walking
through the conference hall with the expos and it's you know,
this sales trainer with the you know, the Legacy group

(01:00:30):
and the online university. And I get talking to the
guy and I'm like, yeah, this is outdated. This is
just word track stuff. So I get to the next one.
It's oh, this is the design to melt sales resistance
with just the right questions and blah blah blah, and
I said. I get talking to these people and I'm like,
this is not this is not for cut. I said
to the guy, I'm like, have you ever trained car
dealerships with this? But they remembered all this shit neither.

(01:00:53):
We don't go into the dealerships and train, We just
deploy our training and they used it. And I said, well,
do you guarantee your results? So there's no way we
can guarantee results if we're not training I'm like, exactly
my point. So you just give it to them, make
them pay for it, and you don't guarantee they're going
to get any sort of success. Well, no, that's not
the way sales training works. No one could guarantee the
success of somebody else and their behavior, right. I'm like,

(01:01:17):
well that seems like horseshit. I feel like, if you're
really good at what you do, that you should be
able to guarantee some sort of improvement, right. And there
they were, the black T shirt wearing, six pack wielding
Alpha Bros. Club from Scottsdale, Arizona. And you know, I'm
not a small guy. I two hundred and eighty five
pounds with a four hundred and fifteen pound bench and
a seven hundred pound dead lift. So the people that

(01:01:37):
are listening, not watching, you can get an idea. I'm
not a small guy. So I walk into this group
of guys and their napoleonesque fearless leader was in the mix.
All I was gonna do is walk through, grab a brochure,
and keep it moving. But you know, I was also
wearing a tank top and I'm not a small guy,
and so they start poking my biceps and asking me

(01:01:58):
if I got a six pack and all this stuff,
and so, you know, but I will say this, very kind,
very nice guys, a lot of fun, a lot of energy,
tons of energy. You can't say anything bad about the guys.
And so they start breaking chops back and forth. Long
story short, I won't get into the minutia here, but
they tried to sell me sales training and I told them, guys,
my salespeople would blow your doors in any day of

(01:02:19):
the week, no offense, but you don't want to go
digging down that rabbit hole. And they kept pressing, so
I pressed back. I said, fine, let's role play you
and me. Let's go. So I got through about three
or four of them, put them completely to shame. I
put them in situations where they had to lie to
get to the desired result, and they couldn't do it
without doing that, and then they reframed it on me,

(01:02:39):
and of course, you know, I walked through it seamlessly
using our p twop framework. And at the end of
the day, the bottom lined. The bottom line was these
guys couldn't hold a candle and one of them, they
all were taking my phone number, taking pictures with me
posting me on Instagram this big look.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
He's the man. This is great.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
And then one of was like you got to meet
but I won't say you got to meet our leader guy.
He's like you guys, He's like, you're you're you could
be he said, I'll never forget you guys, could be
like brothers man because he like, he's so good and
you're so I mean, you're probably better. And then he
stopped talking and he kind of looked back at me
and he's like, well, let's just say, bro, you're good.

(01:03:17):
You're You're probably the best I've ever seen. And I'm like, well,
thank you. Brother. We take a picture and I'm like,
so where's this guy?

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
And I wanted to meet it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
I was gonna get a picture and talk to him,
break his call, but he was nowhere to be found,
and I found that very awkward. He observed me picking
his guys apart, but he wasn't there to back them up, right.
So anyways, I was ended up told that he had
to go do a podcast. Well I was invited on
the podcast that was there. They were out of Canada,
and I asked him, like, we didn't interview him, and

(01:03:45):
I'm like oh okay, So anyways, not not throwing shade here,
but just a very interesting set of circumstances. A month later,
I get a phone call, Hey, Luke, this is so
and so from the SO and so group. Yep, do
you ever make it out to Scottsdale, Arizona on the
other side of the country, But he not frequently, And
he goes, well, we'd like to have you on our podcast.
We think you got a great story. You're an incredible salesperson.

(01:04:06):
The frameworks that you talk to us, we are greinally effective.
We just we'd love to have you on. We feel
that you're an up and comer and we'd like to
have you on our platform. And I was like, you
know what, dude, if I ever make it out that way,
absolutely thank you. I'm honored. During this timeframe, after I
left the conference, Ken, I had this kind of epiphany
that between what I had seen what I had seen,

(01:04:28):
you know, between the Cardones stuff and these guys and not, like,
I just was so disenchanted with what people must be
out there paying for as far as sales training was concerned.
I was literally ill. And on the flight home, I
was taking some notes and I talked to my wife,
and she goes, honey, why don't you just do it?
Like you've got the dealerships to a point where you
can put a manager in there, they'll run themselves. Like

(01:04:48):
you need to bring your message to the world. If
you can help people better than these people and they're
paying these guys hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars,
then you have a responsibility to bring this information to
the world. And my wife is an abs really amazing person,
and she really got me thinking. So finally I said,
you know what, screw it. So I ended up and
I won't bring the names into this, but there's a
there's kind of a relatively famous place in Las Vegas

(01:05:09):
where a lot of these guys housed their their virtual
trainings on and I did some research and discovered they
were a good company, a good platform to be on,
and I engaged with them, and the gentleman that runs
that company is also friends with this individual as well,
and long story short.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
After engaging with.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
This whole conglomerate several months later, after weeks and weeks
and weeks and weeks of conversation, and ended up being
ghosted by this place. They never aired my podcast and
when I asked the individual, why did you fly me
or have me fly to the other side of the country,
spend three days with you, go through this hullabaloo to

(01:05:46):
have me pour my heart out to you and melt
faces on this great podcast that we did for two
and a half hours, only to never air this thing.
And I never got a response. All the messages were read,
never got a response. I asked his friend, the one
that I had done business with. I said, man, like,
what's what's your boys deal here? And he said, look,
you ever read the forty eight Laws of Power? I said, yeah,

(01:06:08):
he goes, go reread rule number one and if you
read Robert Green's the forty eight Laws of Power, rule
number one is never outshine the master. So it was
implicated that they were so enamored by what I brought
to that conversation that there was no way they could
platform me because it would tell you what they were doing.
So you want to know why I chose to get
into sales training, Because I went and I parlayed with

(01:06:29):
who the world thinks are the best of the best
of them. I blew their doors in and was grossly
unimpressed by what existed out there. And that day, moving forward, brother,
I felt like I was doing a disservice to my
fellow salespeople of the world if I did not offer
to help in some way, shape or form.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Wow. That's wow, that is powerful, Joe. I'm not putting
that comment on screen, Joe, so so wow, dude, Holy crap. Well,
this one will be aired. It's actually being aired. It's live,
so and we have seventeen and forty people watching right

(01:07:11):
now live, so it'll it'll get thousands of more views.
But dude, you are a freaking powerhouse. I've got your
website scrolling across the bottom. You know, I've been in
sales since I was seven years old, knocking doors, selling

(01:07:31):
lawnmowing services. Really seven or eight, I don't remember. It
was really your huh, and it was pure yeah yeah,
and also shoveling snow. I'm from Ohio. But you know,
like through throughout my my sales career and especially right

(01:07:53):
now things the economies. I said to somebody two days ago,
I'm like, there's only one solution to what's happening right now,
and that is keep doing what you're doing as far
as your sales are concerned. But you you really have
to over deliver in this economy. You better be over

(01:08:14):
delivering like you've never delivered, because people are going to
go elsewhere. It's that simple. They're watching every dime right now.
So you know, I think that what you're doing is
so freaking important. And I I've gotten to know you
a little bit. Thank you to Joe for introducing us,
Joe Ingram the smartass in the comments. I love Joe.

(01:08:40):
But what for for people that are you know, I've
been through it, man, I've I had you know, I've
given my wife's car back to the bank. I've had
cars repote, I've lost a house. I've been through it all,
you know, Okay, Yeah, I mean what the people for
the people who are stuggling right now that maybe they

(01:09:03):
can't pay their electric bill, maybe they their electric's already
been shut off they can't pay it, or they're you know,
what do you tell people that are are really really
really hitting the wall right now when it comes to
generating sales and revenue? I do, you know? And I
will give I got because I love Grant cardone and

(01:09:26):
and and I you know, I got to give him
props when it comes to what he helped me with,
and that was believing that more is possible, Yes, right,
believing that because you got to that's got to start there.
You've got to believe that that that more is possible.
But the people that are like I'm stuck, I don't

(01:09:48):
know what to do. What would be the first thing
you would would say to them? I'm sure it would
be a series of questions, knowing you right, But what
would you say to somebody that's like at the end
end of their rope and they're ready to throw in
the towel and give They've given up all hope? What
do you say to them to help them get to
the I'm gonna give you full screen for this.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Well, I appreciate that. What I would say to individuals
that are going through it right now is a few things.
The first thing is, it's only failure when you quit.
There's no such thing as failure if you do not quit.
Some of the most prolific and wealthy people in this
world are that way off the backs of some of

(01:10:32):
the biggest failures you can possibly imagine. I myself, I've
had a house work closed upon, I've been left by
many women. I've had two vehicles get repossessed, I've burnt
every bridge I had. The individual who invested one hundred
and fifty thousand dollars for me to start my very
first business is the same individual that fired me for

(01:10:54):
theft of services. So let that simmer for a minute.
In your situation, you might feel like this insurm, it's
just too far gone. A guy that I stole from
handed me a check book with one hundred and fifty
grand in it and asked me to pay him back.
How does that happen? Because there is a polar difference

(01:11:14):
between an individual who is defeated and giving up and
an individual who is persevering and pushing forward. At one point,
I was the individual that was giving in and giving up,
and that was the guy that got fired by this individual.
And then I became the guy that was persevering and
pushing forward relentlessly no matter what that every day I
returned to the process and continued to push harder. Whether

(01:11:36):
I fell forward or I fell backwards, or I fell down,
it didn't matter. I always got back up every single
day and I kept pushing forward. And there were days
where it was like, man, I haven't sold anything in
a week, Like nothing, no one's saying yes, no, like it.
It cannot last forever. Statistically, you cannot fail forever. It's
effing impossible. So if you're going through it right now,

(01:11:59):
and you you're on day seventy seven, day seven, day
seven hundred and seventy seven of trying but failing, I
can tell you two things. If you continue to push forward,
you have not failed, and you cannot fail if you
continue to do so. The other thing is, if you
are not introducing new information into your ecosystem, you are insane.

(01:12:24):
Quite literally by definition, doing the same thing over and
over again without introducing a catalyst for change is the
definition of insanity. So go walk to the closest mirror,
look yourself in the eyes, and say, I'm going to
just continue to do the same thing that I've been
doing with no information, and I'm expecting things to change.

(01:12:45):
And tell me if you can keep a straight face.
And if you can't do that, then why in your life,
in your livelihood are you executing upon those type of behaviors.
You need new information, okay, And when your gut tells
you that it's bad information, you gut's right. If you're
listening to some guru and they're telling you about this
sequence of events that's gonna get you to a win,

(01:13:05):
and in your head you go, I can't really take
it from a to ze logically, that doesn't make sense.
Then listen to your gut. I'm talking so loud. I
just knocked a picture off my desk. If your gut
and your mind can't make sense of it, then it's
very likely that it's not good information. You need to
seek and seek and seek, and eventually something will resonate

(01:13:28):
with you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
Okay. It took me.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Thirty some odd years of seeking to find the woman
that I married, and countless dates, Okay, and I got
to the point where I had dated every girl that
was a ten out of a ten, every rich girl
that had rich parents, every trust fund brad, every biker
chick that was crazy and fun. I've been across the
whole gamut and finally decided there's no such thing as love.
I'll never get married, there's no such thing as a soulmate.

(01:13:52):
It's just a buffet I'll continue to eat to the end.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
Of my life.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
And then one day, one interaction, I met a that
I could not I'll get emotional that I could not
imagine my life without and I wouldn't be where I'm
at today without her, Okay. But it's because I didn't
f and give up, man, Because when that person came
into my path, I went, you know what, man, all
these other ones have gone wrong, but I'm willing to

(01:14:16):
try one more time. And if you're down on your
luck right now, just get your ass up and keep going.
And I know you're sick of hearing that, but it's
not about the sentiment and the motivation behind it. It's
about the logic. When you start living your life based
on common sense and logic and executing upon things that
make sense to you, then it will all start to
come together. And if it doesn't make sense that, if

(01:14:39):
you're doing the same thing over and over again expecting
a different result in your nuts, then I don't know
what to tell you. But if you can wrap your
head around the fact that you need new information and
that you just need to keep going and something will break,
I promise you this. The saying that it's always darkest
before the dawn is so true.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Okay. I was in a rut in my sales training.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
I had done the funnels and the marketing and the
this and that, and you know, It's funny. I asked
chat GPT one night. I said, if you were my
mentor and all the take, all the conversations that we've had,
everything that I've asked of you, all the iteration that
we've done, if you were my eighty year old mentor,
been there, done that, the old wise man, what would
you tell me that I'm doing wrong? Because I can't

(01:15:21):
quite seem to break into the ecosystem right now. I'm
just not gaining traction. And it said to be Luke,
You're trying to prove yourself to a marketplace that you
deserve to own. So just be you and own the marketplace.
Stop trying to conform. Stop trying to be a sales trainer.
That's not what you are. You are, Luke Wannkenheimer, forged

(01:15:42):
by the fire. Just go out and be you, and
people will gravitate towards you. And when an AI tells
you that after all the information that it's received from you,
it's a little bit of an eye opener. So I
know this is a little bit more answer than you
bargain for it, Ken, But that's that's a question that
sparks a lot within me because I've been exactly at
that place, and I living breathing testiment to the fact
that if you just don't fucking give up, and you

(01:16:04):
get up the next day and you push forward and
you just go to work, and here's the cherry on top.
You have to give a shit. You have to care
about people. You have to open doors for old ladies.
You have to make sure your customer gets what they
paid for. You have to stop on the side of
the road and help somebody with a flat tire so
they don't get hit by a semi. You have to
make sure that the people around you have what they

(01:16:24):
need before you eat. Okay, it is so fundamentally important
to everything that I just said that your moral compass
is pointed in the right direction because guys success finds success.
The mentor that helped me and gave me money to
start my business did so because he saw a guy
who was on a ruthless hunt for success and was
doing the right things, and he saw a good interestmate.

(01:16:47):
And when you do the right things and you work
your ass off with a undeniable work ethic, when people
see that person will not stop. They will always continue
to get up and push forward. All of a sudden,
you become a really good investment to somebody somewhere. So
there is no fail if you do not quit, and
there is no change if you don't implement it and

(01:17:07):
get new information. And I hope that helps somebody somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
Holy shit, Okay, I'm gonna go run through a brick wall.
I'll be right back. Oh my god, that was powerful, man.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Holy crap comes from aver.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
I know. I felt, I felt it, I literally felt
it that that that was amazing. Luke, you are the
real deal. Joe Joe said it. He said he's the
real deal, dude. So thank you. You really are. I'm
I'm I can't wait to meet you in person and

(01:17:46):
and and you to ask for my autograph? Well, absolutely,
you can sign my chest. Oh my god, dude, you're amazing.
Thank you so much for coming on here and and
sharing unbelievable wisdom everybody listening. If you're listening on the

(01:18:06):
podcast networks, go to paid p A I D the
number two Persuade dot Com, Paid to Persuade dot Com
And Luke, what is your sore? Where can people find
you on social media? What's your well? And my wife
is on here too, that's that's my wife. By the

(01:18:27):
way she's made a few comments.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Oh thank you. I really appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
Yeah, she's so she's I feel the same way you
feel about your wife. She's so supportive, so amazing. So
so where what social media? And how do they find
you on social media?

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
I make it super easy, brother. I got a big, long,
crazy German last name, so I I make it very simple.
It's Luke Lunk l u k e l u n
k and like November k Luke Lunk, like Luke my
first name, and lunk like the lunk alarment Planet Fitness.
And it was Luke Lunk back when I weighed one
hundred and eighty seven pounds. So it wasn't about being

(01:19:04):
a lunk, it was about Lunkenheimer. So at Luke Lunk.
That's on Instagram, that's on TikTok, that's on Facebook. I
think they got me as Lucas John Lunkenheimer because that's
how they had to verify me YouTube. It's paid to
persuade and any other socials that I'm not thinking of,
like X they're all at Luke Lunk. And for the
people listening out there, I give away pretty much daily,

(01:19:27):
just free advice, just free the same heartfelt stuff that
I gave away today. You know, I'm not in this
for the money. I believe I'll get wealthy doing it
simply by the fact that we will serve people so
well that they'll gravitate towards us. But every day I
give away free value. So if anybody needs some help
with sales, I'll gladly help you for free before you
spend a penny with me.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
My wife just said she's following you, so thank you
very much. Yeah, but you're legit man, and I love
everything you said. There's not one thing I'm sitting here
going yeah. But because you know, I've interviewed over six
hundred and fifty people. Man, there's many of them that
didn't make it to the podcast platform after the live

(01:20:07):
interview Yours is gone up just so you know. But
you know, oftentimes I've interviewed people and I went no,
I didn't. I didn't jibe with that. You're you're solid man.
I think everybody here should be following you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
And one thing I want to say really fast before
we end this is, besides thank you for being here,
no matter what you're going through, I've been there. And
one thing that I always try to do to keep
things in perspective. Take a look at what has happened
here in Central Texas on July fourth. And you know,

(01:20:47):
I have two daughters, and my youngest daughter, who's fifteen now,
has actually been to camp down in that area, not
that camp, but in that area. She was just there
in February. So keep those those amazing people in your
prayers and remember that no matter what you're going through,

(01:21:10):
somebody's got it worse like I would. I would not
want to be in those parents' shoes, no way. So Luke,
you're amazing. God bless you and everything that you're doing.
I can't wait to meet you in person. I mean that,
and we're going to do some stuff together. I don't

(01:21:31):
know what yet, but I'm going to bring you into
one of my events or something. But Luke, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
I'd be honored. Brother. And just very briefly, you guys
like Ken's a real one, right, and so's Joe. And
I've been on the circuit, man, I've been on the podcast.
I bet you can go to my channel and see
I've been with some big, big names and I don't
have anywhere near as good of a time or give
as compelling a talk than when I'm with real people

(01:21:58):
that are just straight from the gun. And Ken's a
real one. So you guys are following them. We probably
already know that he's newer to me. Joe was newer
to me. But these are guys that have tattooed their
mark on the world and done so in a way
that was authentic because they brought value to people. So
I'm honored to be here. I'm honored to have you
share me on your platform, and I'm very thankful to
everybody for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
Thank you, thank you. I'm gonna wrap this up now,
but thank you for your kind words. It really means
the world to me. So everybody make sure that you
go to paid to Persuade dot com paid and the
number two persuade dot com. Find Luke at Luke lunk

(01:22:39):
l u n k on all the social media's and
follow this dude. Man. He's he's legit. He's got some
good stuff happening. So I'm gonna wrap this up. If
you would stay with me though, and we can chat
for a quick minute, sure, and it's gonna feel it
takes forever to disconnect from all the platforms We're on
like nine different platforms right now. But if you would

(01:23:02):
just wait for a second, I'm gonna wrap this up.
I want to say thank you for being on and
thank you for all the wisdom that you shared. And everybody,
make sure you're following Luke everywhere and we will see
you all very soon. We'll see you tomorrow. I have
Steve loves Ammo on the show tomorrow. You guys have
a fantastic day. Luke, thank you again.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
Thank you brother.

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
Be well.

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Episode 596 - Interview with Luke Lunkenheimer!

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 596 - Interview with Luke Lunkenheimer!