February 11, 2021 • 33 mins
Well momma, you did It! You got through labor and delivered this perfect little baby. After a day or two, you’re on your way home from the hospital or you're getting settled in after a home birth, only just realizing that you have absolutely no idea what you’re doing!
That's what we are going to talk about today. How can you be prepared to breastfeed your newborn when you get settled back Into your everyday environment? What can you expect in those first days and weeks? What should you look out for to make sure that baby is feeding well or if she or he is having a bit of trouble?
On the show for this episode is Adrienne Koznek, a Portland, Oregon-based International Board Certified Lactation Consultant with Nest Collaborative and the mom of one eight-year-old boy. Adrienne’s own personal breastfeeding journey started off quite difficult, but she was able to go the distance and she now helps families all over the country on their own path through early parenthood.
Join us for today's episode, you won't want to miss It!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amanda Gorman (00:00):
[Intro] Breastfeeding Unplugged.
Welcome. Welcome. Welcome mamasand mamas-to-be. A podcast
dedicated to helping momsnavigate their way through the
tricky world of breastfeeding.
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
(00:22):
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
Hello mamas and mamas-to be-andwelcome to another episode of
Breastfeeding Unplugged. I'myour host Amanda Gorman of Nest
Collaborative. And this week, wewill be exploring those tricky
first few days at home from thehospital with your new little
love, or at home, for those ofyou who birth at home, birthing
(00:46):
center, or wherever you birth. Iremember giving birth to my own
children. And to be honest, itall feels a bit like a blur. You
kind of- or I, I at least gotthrough labor and delivered this
beautiful, perfect little babyand was completely riding high
on oxytocin and all the feelsthat go with being a new mom.
(01:07):
You know, if you do give birthin a hospital, you're sometimes
whisked away to a postpartumroom. If you're in a hospital
that doesn't, you know, room-inand some nurses will come just
to make sure you're comfortableas humanly possible and offer
kind of the basics in teachingyou about newborn care. A
lactation consultant may pop inand give you a few pointers on
(01:29):
feeding. Then after a day ortwo, you're on your way home
with your little babe, only justrealizing that you may have no
idea what you're doing in somecases. So that's what we're here
to talk about today. How can youreally be prepared to breastfeed
your newborn when you get homefrom your birthing spot? Or when
(01:50):
you're nestling in as a family?
What can you expect in thosefirst few days, in those first
few weeks, and what you reallyshould look out for to make sure
that baby's feeding well, or howcan you assess if he or she is
having a little bit of trouble?
With me today is AdrienneKoznek, Portland, Oregon based
International Board CertifiedLactation Consultant. She's on
(02:12):
our team at Nest Collaborativeand she's a mom of a really
adorable eight year old boy.
Adrienne's own personalbreastfeeding journey started
off a little difficult, but shewas able to go the distance and
now she helps our families allover the country as well as her-
in her own practice On TheirPath Through Parenthood.
Adrienne, welcome to the show.
(02:34):
It is fantastic to have you withus today.
Adrienne Koznek (02:36):
It's good to be here. Thank you.
Amanda Gorman (02:38):
Good. I wanted to get started talking a little bit
about some numbers. According tothe CDC 84% of lactating parents
start off breastfeeding, butonly 25% are still exclusively
breastfeeding at that six monthmark. You were almost one of
those parents. So can you tellus a little bit about your
(03:01):
personal experience?
Adrienne Koznek (03:03):
Yeah. So I was definitely one of those people
who spent a lot of timepreparing for the birth, and
figuring out how I could make mybirthing experience be what I
want it to be. And I verydistinctly remember reading a
breastfeeding book and thinking,"Okay, I'll figure this out
(03:23):
after the birth." I'll figurethis out when he's here. Um, and
I learned pretty quickly thatthat wasn't the best idea. And
that I should have spent somemore time thinking about what I
was going to be spending a lotmore time doing, then spending
so much time, you know, creatingthis birth plan in my head. Um,
so, yes, my breastfeedingjourney was really tough in the
(03:47):
beginning, because of a lot ofdifferent reasons. One, I didn't
know very much aboutbreastfeeding, I had limited
experience with it. My oldersister had a baby, but he was
only four months old. So thatwas the extent of my
breastfeeding experience wasseeing my sister breastfeed only
for four months at that time.
And she was doing very well andI couldn't understand why I
(04:11):
wasn't doing it as well as shewas. Um, so I saw a lot of
different lactation consultantsat the hospital that I gave
birth at with varying degrees ofsuccess. And it actually wasn't
until I saw a person who was inprivate practice that I was
really able to kind of get ontrack and get the get the
(04:33):
diagnosis that I need- that Ineeded of my baby had a tongue
tie, and it was largely ignoredand overlooked until I saw
somebody in private practice whowas able to get me on the right
path. And then once I had theknowledge and the confidence in
(04:53):
myself to know what to do goingforward, we went on to
breastfeed for over two years.
So it ended up having a verylovely ending.
Amanda Gorman (05:06):
That is, and that truly is a success. That is,
that's great. Yeah, no, thankyou for sharing that. I didn't
know that whole story, so. Um,so let's jump in with some
questions. Well, successfulbreastfeeding from day one is,
you know, kind of equal parts,education and preparation. What
(05:29):
do you think parents can dobefore they have their baby to
really set them up forbreastfeeding success once baby
arrives?
Adrienne Koznek (05:37):
I think the two biggest things that parents can
do is either take abreastfeeding class, or have a
prenatal breastfeeding consultwith an International Board
Certified Lactation Consultant.
Because knowing what to expectand knowing what to look for,
especially knowing what'snormal, is, I think, the most
(05:59):
important takeaway. Um, I talk alot to parents about how so much
of breastfeeding and so much ofjust parenting a newborn is very
like pathologized. And thatwe're always looking for
something like to be goingwrong. And we are often told
that common newborn behaviors issomething wrong. And so knowing
(06:22):
what is normal is going to helpyou when your baby comes,
because then you'll then you'llknow like, oh, okay, I don't
need to call the pediatricianfor this, or I don't need to
call the advice nurse for this,like, I know, this is a normal
thing that babies do. So gettingthat information ahead of time,
(06:42):
either from a class or from aconsult. Some people like to
read books, and I think that canbe a really useful thing. But if
you're pressed for time, orbooks don't really, that's just
not how you learn about things,then meeting with somebody
either virtually or sort of faceto face. I guess that's not
really happening right now. Butif it were, I think that that
(07:05):
can make all the difference,honestly.
Amanda Gorman (07:10):
Absolutely. And it's something I wish I had
known is, is that that's whatthe research actually says, is
shown to be beneficial. Womenwho have more comprehensive
education prenatally are foundto be more successful in meeting
their goals. So I think that'sgreat to share with everyone.
Adrienne Koznek (07:31):
And increasing the duration of breastfeeding to
like, not only do they startout- more often they start out
breastfeeding, but they continueto breastfeed for even longer.
Amanda Gorman (07:40):
Absolutely. Is there anything that one can do
while they are, if they're atthe hospital or birthing center
to get ready for the transitionhome with respect to
breastfeeding?
Adrienne Koznek (07:54):
I think that everybody should leave the
hospital knowing what to belooking for in terms of what to
track, how to track the wetdiapers, how to track the dirty
diapers. And if they're on afeeding plan that includes
giving any sort ofsupplementation, any kind of
extra milk, they need to leavethe hospital knowing what the
(08:16):
game plan is for that feedingplan. They need to know is this
going to be for three days? Isthis going to be for the next 24
hours and not just set, not justbe told you have to do this and
then not know when they'resupposed to stop or continue. I
also believe strongly thatfamilies should leave their
(08:37):
birthing spot knowing whenthey're going to be checked in
on again, and not just the youknow, two day newborn checkup.
But when is, when are they goingto see the feeding expert? When
are they going to see thelactation consultant again, to
make sure that things are goingthe way that they're supposed to
be going?
Amanda Gorman (08:52):
Mm hmm.
Absolutely. So families are inthe hospital, baby is latching
great. You know, the hold, thepositioning is fantastic. Mom's
feeling great. But then familygets home and things kind of
derail, and they're not going aswell as they were going. What
(09:15):
should parents do?
Adrienne Koznek (09:21):
First of all, they should not panic, because I
think many many, many, manypeople discover this. I think
that the reason why this happensis a couple of reasons. Um
generally speaking like aroundday three, day four, that's when
the white milk is starting totransition, which comes with a
lot of hormones and a lot ofphysical changes and a lot of
(09:43):
emotion comes up. And babies arealso kind of like starting to
come online and they're likelooking around the universe and
thinking where the heck am Ithis is not what I'm used to. So
kind of everybody loses theirmind. In those- at like around
day three. It's very common. SoI think that knowing that is
(10:06):
helpful, and knowing who tocall. So do you like, do you
have your lactation consultant'sphone number? Do you have a
trusted friend or a familymember who knows about caring
for a baby? And knows, you know,do you have somebody that you
can talk to about it? And thenwhat I would advise not doing is
(10:28):
immediately jumping on theinternet and googling things.
Because I know I personally findthat to be very overwhelming
when trying to find outparenting advice. So you know,
knowing your trusted sources,who can you reach out to? And
then execute a plan from there.
Amanda Gorman (10:44):
Mm hmm.
Absolutely. I think, you know, alarge percentage of families are
sent home from the hospital withformula, or we know that moms
magically get formula appearingin their mailboxes when they're
pregnant. What should parents dowith it if they intend to
breastfeed?
Adrienne Koznek (11:05):
If they intend to breastfeed, then there's not
really anything that they needto do with it. I think, I think
there's a lot of different very,like, you can have varying
opinions on the validity ofhaving it sent home from the
hospital with you or sent to youin the mail. Um, I,
(11:26):
statistically, it's notnecessarily likely to be needed
in the first week, especially ifsomebody is off to a good start
breastfeeding. So if you have itbecause it was sent to- if it
was sent home with you from thehospital, were you given a
feeding plan? Were you told thatyou needed to use this and if
you were told you needed to useit, ask about can you be using
(11:48):
your own milk first tosupplement. When you're giving
extra milk, you know, the thehierarchy of giving extra milk
for babies from the World HealthOrganization is always start
with the breastfeeding parent'smilk first, and then, you know,
pumped milk if it is. And thenbank's donor milk, and then milk
from a family or trusted friend.
And then formula. So there's alot of like extra milk kind of
(12:11):
in between mom- mom's milk, thebreastfeeding parent's milk, and
then the formula. So justknowing when it's supposed to be
used for. Formula is a it's amedical intervention, it's a
tool, right? And so when thetool needs to be used, we need
to be using it correctly.
Amanda Gorman (12:29):
Absolutely. And I think you bring up a lot of good
information that not everyfamily has going into this the
first time. What is thathierarchy? Certainly I know, it
didn't even dawn upon me to pumpand give my own milk if I
couldn't actually get baby totake it from the breast. I think
more and more hospitals havebanked and donor milk available.
(12:52):
More and more states have banksavailable, more and more
insurance companies are coveringdonor milk. And this might not
be something that yourpediatrician necessarily knows
about. Because a lot of- on thishas changed in the last decade,
five to 10 years. So I thinkthis is great information for
(13:13):
moms to know about. So thankyou. We hear a lot from families
we see who say that theirfriend's breasts got huge when
their milk came in. Is thatalways the case?
Adrienne Koznek (13:30):
That's something that I talk about a
lot with parents too, is becausethey are surprised if it's not
happening to them. Because we dohe- you know, like we see in the
movies and all these thingsabout like painful engorgement
and rock hard breast and all ofthese things. And engorgement is
actually a sign that somethingmay be not- may not be going
right. So no, it doesn't have tobe part of it. A baby who's
(13:54):
nursing well, and a baby who'sremoving milk well, regularly
and frequently, at least 10 to12 times in 24 hours. They're
going to kind of make thetransition from the colostrum to
the white milk more smooth, andit'll be this kind of more
smooth transition. It's morewithin the realm of normal to
feel kind of heavy breasts orkind of fuller, or maybe a lot
(14:17):
fuller, but not necessarilypainful or hard or swollen.
Those are signs that maybe themilk hasn't been getting removed
as well as maybe we think we dothink the baby was doing, which
can happen for a variety ofreasons. But a baby who's
nursing well is avoidingengorgement.
Amanda Gorman (14:39):
Thank you for clarifying that. So we don't all
have to go through torture.
That's good to know. Okay, so wetalked that's, you know, the
engorgement side. Let's talkabout nipple care, cracking, and
bleeding. Are these common andwhat can women do for themselves
when this happens?
Adrienne Koznek (15:00):
Yes, it is common, but common does not
equal normal. And so I thinkthis is another one of these
things that is kind of in thecultural zeitgeist in society
about. It's this expected thing,maybe it's like a rite of
passage for breastfeeding, thatyou have to have these cracked
nipples and bleeding, and allthis terrible things- all these
(15:21):
terrible things. And it's a signthat something's wrong. It's a
sign that there's somethingwrong with the latch. And it
could be positioning, it couldbe anything from positioning, to
something going on with thebaby's oral structure, to how
the birth was. So it's alwaysimportant to identify what is
the issue causing the problem,and then treating treating the
(15:46):
problem, right. So crackednipples are a symptom of
something. So if you find thatyou're having that or if you're
having like, continued soreness,or bleeding or damage, see a
lactation consultant. Figure outwhere that's coming from. And
there's different treatmentsthat I like to use for nipple
(16:07):
damage, depending on theseverity of it, depending on the
parent. So that's why havingthat good, like individualized
plan for what's gonna best healyour nipples is that's good
information for parents to have.
Amanda Gorman (16:19):
Great. So before we take a break, let's talk a
quick minute about mastitis. Canyou tell us what that is, and
why would we get it?
Adrienne Koznek (16:30):
Mastitis is a breast infection and it comes
from milk stasis, whichbasically just means milk
sitting in the breast. It canalso happen when there's
bacteria introduced into thebreast by way of cracked
nipples, or when the tissue hasbeen compromised. So there's two
different types of mastitis.
There's viral mastitis andthere's bacteria mastitis. Um,
(16:53):
more often than not mastitisgets treated with antibiotics
and more often than not, itactually doesn't need
antibiotics. So it's alwaysreally, really important to
figure out what is causing themastitis. Is it this plugged
duct that is now inflating thebreasts? Do you have red
(17:13):
streaking on your breasts? Is itpainful to the touch? Hot to the
touch? Is it only in one breastor is it in to breasts, etc? So
really sussing out what thesymptoms are, can be really
helpful in treating it. So themost common reason I see
mastitis in the first couple ofdays or first couple of weeks is
(17:34):
because the milks not beingremoved properly. And that goes
back to the basics of is thebaby latched well? Are they
transferring milk and if you areending up with mastitis, then
your baby is likely not latchedwell, and they're likely not
transferring milk well.
Amanda Gorman (17:51):
Great. And thank you for mentioning kind of the
the importance of getting to theroot of the problem. Because as
you mentioned, in some cases,you can clear up mastitis with
antibiotics but you're likely tosee it again if you don't
correct what's driving it. So-
Adrienne Koznek (18:10):
Right yeah, and even more so everything that we
know about the the risksassociated with antibiotics and
what it does to our gut and toour gut health. Obviously, the
less we use it, the better, soif it can be avoided, then
that's certainly ideal.
Amanda Gorman (18:26):
Well, this is such great information.
Adrienne, we're going to take aquick break, but come back and I
would like to talk about some ofthe common roadblocks mom face
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Hi mamas we are back withPortland based IBCLC Adrienne
Koznek, who is with us today tochat through what breastfeeding
moms can expect during thosefirst few days after coming home
from the hospital or whereverbaby arrives from. So just to
(19:56):
jump right to the nitty gritty,most postpartum nurses and
pediatricians might tell youthat poop is a great indicator
of how your baby's feeding. Sotalk us through that, Adrienne.
Adrienne Koznek (20:06):
Yes. So the- one of the biggest things that I
hear from parents is they feelworried that their baby's not
getting enough milk because theycan't measure how much milk
they're getting. They can'tphysically see how much milk
they're getting when they'redrinking from the breast. So I
get very excited to tell them,What if I told you there's a way
(20:26):
that you can know that doesn'thave to be measuring it from you
know, outside of the breast?" Sthe best way to do that is b
counting the diapers. That's whin the hospital, they have yo
track the diapers, it's whtracking it for the first coupl
of weeks while things are argetting established, it can b
really a useful tool. And so thnumber of poopy diapers and we
(20:51):
diapers that they're having in24 hour period is the greates
indicator that they're gettinenough milk, because what goe
in must be coming out. So iwe're having really adequate we
diapers, which in the firscouple of days can be based o
the number of days that they'ralive. So day one, they shoul
(21:12):
be having one wet diaper, onpoopy diaper. Day two, two we
diapers up to about day fiveAnd then typically what we wan
to see is about six to eight wediapers. And about three to fiv
poopy diapers that are goosize, and I'm holding up m
fingers to make about likehalf dollar size right now
That's considered a good sizedgood sized poop. And that's wha
(21:36):
we want to be looking for tobecause oftentimes, we're no
taking babies to get weigheevery single day. And certainly
I don't necessarily think thawe need to do that. So in th
absence of getting a weight othem very regularly, countin
those poops and those pees isgreat way to be making sure tha
they're on the right track
Amanda Gorman (21:58):
Awesome. And just for any mamas-to-be who are
listening and have never seenwhat breastfed babies poop looks
like, do you want to touch onthat real quick?
Adrienne Koznek (22:07):
Um, people always get really funny when I
ask them that, like, it's thisodd question. And I just think
nothing of it, because theyspend so much time talking about
what poop looks like. Yes, somany parents are surprised that
it's not solid or formed, itdoesn't look like I almost said
like regular human poop. But Idefinitely don't mean that. It
(22:31):
doesn't look like what our pooplooks like, it's going to be
very runny, it's going to bekind of liquidy, it's going to
be any variation of like yellow,maybe some orange, sometimes
there's some green in there. Ifthey are getting some formula,
then it can sometimes look alittle bit more brown. That's
(22:52):
that's what the breast milk poopshould look like after it has
transitioned from the meconiumpoops. So when you're in the
hospital, they're going to bevery excited to show you all of
those meconium poop diapers thatwe want to get out of the baby
as quickly as possible. And thenit should start to transition
over the next few days to startlooking more yellow, seedy, kind
(23:14):
of runny. Sometimes there can bevariations of green that are
within the realm of normal. I'min the Pacific Northwest. So I
like to tell people colors thatyou see on a tree around here
would be colors that are normalin breast milk poop.
Amanda Gorman (23:33):
I like that.
Adrienne Koznek (23:34):
Yeah.
Amanda Gorman (23:36):
So what about sleep? What is a good kind of
feeding, sleeping scheduleduring those first few days?
Adrienne Koznek (23:44):
I'm hesitant to call anything a schedule,
because babies need to nurseanywhere from 10 to 12 times in
24 hours. And that could beevery couple of hours, or it
could be every hour for a chunkof time. And then maybe they
sleep for three hours. It's notgoing to be this like straight
(24:04):
line linear, they eat this exactamount at these exact periods of
time. So in the first couple ofdays, what I tell parents to do
is be waking them to feed ifthey're not waking on their own.
Many babies do not wake on theirown to feed for the first couple
of days, that's normal,especially if they've had a
(24:25):
particularly arduous birth or ifthey received a lot of like
interventions in labor and indelivery. It can make babies
sleepy. So we wake them to feedand I kind of aim for this like
two and a halfish hour timeperiod. But what's most
important is to be knowing whatcues to look for for baby and
(24:48):
following those cues. Sotypically, babies will start to
show some early feeding cues andthey may start kind of stirring
in their sleep a little bit andthen that's a great time to get
them ready to feed and get themreally awakened with their
eyeballs showing so they're outof that sleep cycle and then
bring them to the breast. In thefirst couple of days, most
(25:10):
babies will feed and thenthey'll fall asleep. And then we
wake them up and we feed themand then they fall asleep. And
that's just, that's just theirlittle lives for a short
duration of time.
Amanda Gorman (25:23):
Very, very helpful. So what common problems
exist with breastfeeding earlyin those first few days that
moms might want to know aboutahead of time?
Adrienne Koznek (25:36):
Definitely the biggest complaints or concerns
that new parents have in thosefirst couple of days are my
nipples are sore, or they arepainful. What can I do about
that? So that's definitely oneof the most common things and
like I said before, commondoesn't mean normal. It's normal
to have some tenderness in thefirst couple of weeks. Two weeks
(25:59):
is pretty generous, I would say.
It's normal for there to betransient tenderness. It's not
normal, for there to be pain.
Pain is a sign that something iswrong. So where we have this
nipple soreness, the simplestexplanation is always going back
to the positioning, going backto making sure that the
breastfeeding parent has reallygood positioning of how they're
(26:20):
holding the baby. Is the babyclose enough to nurse well? Do
they have a good, deep, wideopen latch? And then does that
feel okay? So that's always kindof where we start. Other common
complaints that come up areengorgement or painful breast
once the milk has started totransition. And so we treat that
(26:43):
with a variety of differentthings, kind of depending on
what's most appropriate for thedyad. Um, and let's see. Those
are those are like, the biggestones that I that I have is my
baby's latch hurts me, why is ithurting? So we figure out is it
(27:03):
positioning. Is my- is the mom-is the breastfeeding parent
doing everything on their endthat they need that they need to
be doing correctly. And if it'sstill painful, if it's still
hurting them, then we have tolook at the baby, we have to be
looking at what's going on onbaby's end that is contributing
to this pain and this discomfortthat doesn't have to be
(27:24):
considered a normal part ofbreastfeeding.
Amanda Gorman (27:27):
One other thing I hear you all talk about in those
early days is cluster feeding.
Maybe you could share a littlebit about that. Because I know
that's fairly common as well.
Adrienne Koznek (27:39):
Yeah, cluster feeding is basically it's a time
where baby is doing a lot ofthings all at once. They-
sometimes parents will findthemselves sitting on the couch
for four hours at a time and thebaby just wants to nurse and
then they want to stop but thenewborn wants to nurse again,
and it can be every hour on thehour for a chunk of time. And
(28:01):
this is normal, it is not a signthat your milk supply is low or
is not enough. It is oftentimesthey do it because they're
either like going through acognitive leap or maybe a
physical growth spurt. They maybe like putting in an order to
increase your milk supply. Orthey may just be in that
(28:25):
particular time of day. Andcluster feeding is common-
commonly happens in the lateafternoon to like early evening
time. And it's just this timewhere you got to you know, have
your book ready on the couch andhave a seat and you know, know
that it will pass.
Amanda Gorman (28:44):
Very helpful. So if if moms are feeling anxious
at all, or hope- hopelessly,completely at a loss, who do
they reach out to? In you know,in other words, what resources
are available for them?
Adrienne Koznek (28:59):
I think that it's important for parents to
understand that InternationalBoard Certified Lactation
Consultants are the goldstandard for breastfeeding care.
So when you're looking for theexperts in breastfeeding and
chestfeeding and lactation, itis the lactation consultants. So
when there is a breastfeedingissue to be had come see, you
(29:23):
know, one of us and we can helpyou through that. And if it
feels like everything is hard,and it feels like it's beyond
what is normal for you. Ifyou're not feeling like your
heads right. Or if you'refeeling like you have some
depression or sadness or maybesome baby blues that may or may
not be related to breastfeeding,or if you're feeling anxious,
(29:46):
and that doesn't feel right toyou. Um, I always recommend
parents find support groups likePostpartum Support International
in the Portland area. There'sthe Baby Blues Connection and I
think now that so many thingsare online, you can probably-
they, they're probably providingpeer support all over. And so I-
(30:08):
the reason why I bring that upas a resource is because I think
that the breastfeeding parentsand the partner as well, like,
their mental well being is justas important as anything else
that we give them informationabout. So there's always going
to be support, there's alwaysgoing to be help, and we will
always point people in the rightdirection to get the support
(30:30):
that they need.
Amanda Gorman (30:32):
Good. That's great. Well, Adrienne, this has
been a really great chat. And itcertainly brought me back to my
early days with my own littles.
Breastfeeding is it was hard forme, it is hard for many, it
doesn't feel like there reallyis enough support out there for
(30:52):
moms to get when they reallyneed it. And to help them be
where they want to be for theirjourney. And that is really why
we exist. And we love IBCLCslike you who are helping our
moms gain more confidence andbuild those bonds with their
babies and go on to have reallyfantastic breastfeeding
(31:12):
experiences. So thank you forwhat you do. And is there
anything else you'd like to addbefore we close?
Adrienne Koznek (31:22):
I just think it's really, really good for new
parents to know that they're notalone, in any sense of the
imagination, especially now. Nowmore than ever, we're all in
such this like isolated place.
And new parents, especially, Ithink, feel that very physically
and emotionally this isolation,and they're not alone. And if
(31:43):
there is a concern that they'rehaving that, you know, we we
answer the questions. We are,we're there to help them figure
out if there even is anythingwrong. And we're here to point
out like, yeah, things are goingreally well and here's how you
can know that things are goingwell. And sometimes it can just
be really nice to hear that fromsomebody who is kind of on the
(32:06):
outside, you know, who canobjectively say, yeah, things
are going really well. Andyou're doing it, you're doing
the thing. So yeah, they're notalone.
Amanda Gorman (32:18):
No, I love that.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
I'm super appreciative of allyour knowledge. If our listeners
want to get in touch with you,what is the best way to do that?
Adrienne Koznek (32:27):
Through Nest Collaborative. That's the care
that I am providing these days.
Amanda Gorman (32:31):
Yes, she is there and is working, working a lot
with a lot of our moms that wewe love that, thank you.
Awesome. Well, mamas andmamas-to-be that is our episode
for today. As always, the showwas created by our experts
really just for you. So if thereis a question you have, or a
topic you'd like to be explored,that's why we're here. So send
(32:52):
us a message on Instagram orFacebook
@breastfeedingunplugged, orvisit our website at
breastfeedingunplugged.com formore information and a
transcript of today's show. It'sbeen fantastic sharing this half
hour with you and we willhopefully see you next week.
Until then it's me Amandasigning off. Boo bye. [Outro]
(33:19):
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
[Intro] Breastfeeding Unplugged.
Welcome. Welcome. Welcome mamasand mamas-to-be. A podcast
dedicated to helping momsnavigate their way through the
tricky world of breastfeeding.
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
(00:22):
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
Hello mamas and mamas-to be-andwelcome to another episode of
Breastfeeding Unplugged. I'myour host Amanda Gorman of Nest
Collaborative. And this week, wewill be exploring those tricky
first few days at home from thehospital with your new little
love, or at home, for those ofyou who birth at home, birthing
(00:46):
center, or wherever you birth. Iremember giving birth to my own
children. And to be honest, itall feels a bit like a blur. You
kind of- or I, I at least gotthrough labor and delivered this
beautiful, perfect little babyand was completely riding high
on oxytocin and all the feelsthat go with being a new mom.
(01:07):
You know, if you do give birthin a hospital, you're sometimes
whisked away to a postpartumroom. If you're in a hospital
that doesn't, you know, room-inand some nurses will come just
to make sure you're comfortableas humanly possible and offer
kind of the basics in teachingyou about newborn care. A
lactation consultant may pop inand give you a few pointers on
(01:29):
feeding. Then after a day ortwo, you're on your way home
with your little babe, only justrealizing that you may have no
idea what you're doing in somecases. So that's what we're here
to talk about today. How can youreally be prepared to breastfeed
your newborn when you get homefrom your birthing spot? Or when
(01:50):
you're nestling in as a family?
What can you expect in thosefirst few days, in those first
few weeks, and what you reallyshould look out for to make sure
that baby's feeding well, or howcan you assess if he or she is
having a little bit of trouble?
With me today is AdrienneKoznek, Portland, Oregon based
International Board CertifiedLactation Consultant. She's on
(02:12):
our team at Nest Collaborativeand she's a mom of a really
adorable eight year old boy.
Adrienne's own personalbreastfeeding journey started
off a little difficult, but shewas able to go the distance and
now she helps our families allover the country as well as her-
in her own practice On TheirPath Through Parenthood.
Adrienne, welcome to the show.
(02:34):
It is fantastic to have you withus today.
Adrienne Koznek (02:36):
It's good to be here. Thank you.
Amanda Gorman (02:38):
Good. I wanted to get started talking a little bit
about some numbers. According tothe CDC 84% of lactating parents
start off breastfeeding, butonly 25% are still exclusively
breastfeeding at that six monthmark. You were almost one of
those parents. So can you tellus a little bit about your
(03:01):
personal experience?
Adrienne Koznek (03:03):
Yeah. So I was definitely one of those people
who spent a lot of timepreparing for the birth, and
figuring out how I could make mybirthing experience be what I
want it to be. And I verydistinctly remember reading a
breastfeeding book and thinking,"Okay, I'll figure this out
(03:23):
after the birth." I'll figurethis out when he's here. Um, and
I learned pretty quickly thatthat wasn't the best idea. And
that I should have spent somemore time thinking about what I
was going to be spending a lotmore time doing, then spending
so much time, you know, creatingthis birth plan in my head. Um,
so, yes, my breastfeedingjourney was really tough in the
(03:47):
beginning, because of a lot ofdifferent reasons. One, I didn't
know very much aboutbreastfeeding, I had limited
experience with it. My oldersister had a baby, but he was
only four months old. So thatwas the extent of my
breastfeeding experience wasseeing my sister breastfeed only
for four months at that time.
And she was doing very well andI couldn't understand why I
(04:11):
wasn't doing it as well as shewas. Um, so I saw a lot of
different lactation consultantsat the hospital that I gave
birth at with varying degrees ofsuccess. And it actually wasn't
until I saw a person who was inprivate practice that I was
really able to kind of get ontrack and get the get the
(04:33):
diagnosis that I need- that Ineeded of my baby had a tongue
tie, and it was largely ignoredand overlooked until I saw
somebody in private practice whowas able to get me on the right
path. And then once I had theknowledge and the confidence in
(04:53):
myself to know what to do goingforward, we went on to
breastfeed for over two years.
So it ended up having a verylovely ending.
Amanda Gorman (05:06):
That is, and that truly is a success. That is,
that's great. Yeah, no, thankyou for sharing that. I didn't
know that whole story, so. Um,so let's jump in with some
questions. Well, successfulbreastfeeding from day one is,
you know, kind of equal parts,education and preparation. What
(05:29):
do you think parents can dobefore they have their baby to
really set them up forbreastfeeding success once baby
arrives?
Adrienne Koznek (05:37):
I think the two biggest things that parents can
do is either take abreastfeeding class, or have a
prenatal breastfeeding consultwith an International Board
Certified Lactation Consultant.
Because knowing what to expectand knowing what to look for,
especially knowing what'snormal, is, I think, the most
(05:59):
important takeaway. Um, I talk alot to parents about how so much
of breastfeeding and so much ofjust parenting a newborn is very
like pathologized. And thatwe're always looking for
something like to be goingwrong. And we are often told
that common newborn behaviors issomething wrong. And so knowing
(06:22):
what is normal is going to helpyou when your baby comes,
because then you'll then you'llknow like, oh, okay, I don't
need to call the pediatricianfor this, or I don't need to
call the advice nurse for this,like, I know, this is a normal
thing that babies do. So gettingthat information ahead of time,
(06:42):
either from a class or from aconsult. Some people like to
read books, and I think that canbe a really useful thing. But if
you're pressed for time, orbooks don't really, that's just
not how you learn about things,then meeting with somebody
either virtually or sort of faceto face. I guess that's not
really happening right now. Butif it were, I think that that
(07:05):
can make all the difference,honestly.
Amanda Gorman (07:10):
Absolutely. And it's something I wish I had
known is, is that that's whatthe research actually says, is
shown to be beneficial. Womenwho have more comprehensive
education prenatally are foundto be more successful in meeting
their goals. So I think that'sgreat to share with everyone.
Adrienne Koznek (07:31):
And increasing the duration of breastfeeding to
like, not only do they startout- more often they start out
breastfeeding, but they continueto breastfeed for even longer.
Amanda Gorman (07:40):
Absolutely. Is there anything that one can do
while they are, if they're atthe hospital or birthing center
to get ready for the transitionhome with respect to
breastfeeding?
Adrienne Koznek (07:54):
I think that everybody should leave the
hospital knowing what to belooking for in terms of what to
track, how to track the wetdiapers, how to track the dirty
diapers. And if they're on afeeding plan that includes
giving any sort ofsupplementation, any kind of
extra milk, they need to leavethe hospital knowing what the
(08:16):
game plan is for that feedingplan. They need to know is this
going to be for three days? Isthis going to be for the next 24
hours and not just set, not justbe told you have to do this and
then not know when they'resupposed to stop or continue. I
also believe strongly thatfamilies should leave their
(08:37):
birthing spot knowing whenthey're going to be checked in
on again, and not just the youknow, two day newborn checkup.
But when is, when are they goingto see the feeding expert? When
are they going to see thelactation consultant again, to
make sure that things are goingthe way that they're supposed to
be going?
Amanda Gorman (08:52):
Mm hmm.
Absolutely. So families are inthe hospital, baby is latching
great. You know, the hold, thepositioning is fantastic. Mom's
feeling great. But then familygets home and things kind of
derail, and they're not going aswell as they were going. What
(09:15):
should parents do?
Adrienne Koznek (09:21):
First of all, they should not panic, because I
think many many, many, manypeople discover this. I think
that the reason why this happensis a couple of reasons. Um
generally speaking like aroundday three, day four, that's when
the white milk is starting totransition, which comes with a
lot of hormones and a lot ofphysical changes and a lot of
(09:43):
emotion comes up. And babies arealso kind of like starting to
come online and they're likelooking around the universe and
thinking where the heck am Ithis is not what I'm used to. So
kind of everybody loses theirmind. In those- at like around
day three. It's very common. SoI think that knowing that is
(10:06):
helpful, and knowing who tocall. So do you like, do you
have your lactation consultant'sphone number? Do you have a
trusted friend or a familymember who knows about caring
for a baby? And knows, you know,do you have somebody that you
can talk to about it? And thenwhat I would advise not doing is
(10:28):
immediately jumping on theinternet and googling things.
Because I know I personally findthat to be very overwhelming
when trying to find outparenting advice. So you know,
knowing your trusted sources,who can you reach out to? And
then execute a plan from there.
Amanda Gorman (10:44):
Mm hmm.
Absolutely. I think, you know, alarge percentage of families are
sent home from the hospital withformula, or we know that moms
magically get formula appearingin their mailboxes when they're
pregnant. What should parents dowith it if they intend to
breastfeed?
Adrienne Koznek (11:05):
If they intend to breastfeed, then there's not
really anything that they needto do with it. I think, I think
there's a lot of different very,like, you can have varying
opinions on the validity ofhaving it sent home from the
hospital with you or sent to youin the mail. Um, I,
(11:26):
statistically, it's notnecessarily likely to be needed
in the first week, especially ifsomebody is off to a good start
breastfeeding. So if you have itbecause it was sent to- if it
was sent home with you from thehospital, were you given a
feeding plan? Were you told thatyou needed to use this and if
you were told you needed to useit, ask about can you be using
(11:48):
your own milk first tosupplement. When you're giving
extra milk, you know, the thehierarchy of giving extra milk
for babies from the World HealthOrganization is always start
with the breastfeeding parent'smilk first, and then, you know,
pumped milk if it is. And thenbank's donor milk, and then milk
from a family or trusted friend.
And then formula. So there's alot of like extra milk kind of
(12:11):
in between mom- mom's milk, thebreastfeeding parent's milk, and
then the formula. So justknowing when it's supposed to be
used for. Formula is a it's amedical intervention, it's a
tool, right? And so when thetool needs to be used, we need
to be using it correctly.
Amanda Gorman (12:29):
Absolutely. And I think you bring up a lot of good
information that not everyfamily has going into this the
first time. What is thathierarchy? Certainly I know, it
didn't even dawn upon me to pumpand give my own milk if I
couldn't actually get baby totake it from the breast. I think
more and more hospitals havebanked and donor milk available.
(12:52):
More and more states have banksavailable, more and more
insurance companies are coveringdonor milk. And this might not
be something that yourpediatrician necessarily knows
about. Because a lot of- on thishas changed in the last decade,
five to 10 years. So I thinkthis is great information for
(13:13):
moms to know about. So thankyou. We hear a lot from families
we see who say that theirfriend's breasts got huge when
their milk came in. Is thatalways the case?
Adrienne Koznek (13:30):
That's something that I talk about a
lot with parents too, is becausethey are surprised if it's not
happening to them. Because we dohe- you know, like we see in the
movies and all these thingsabout like painful engorgement
and rock hard breast and all ofthese things. And engorgement is
actually a sign that somethingmay be not- may not be going
right. So no, it doesn't have tobe part of it. A baby who's
(13:54):
nursing well, and a baby who'sremoving milk well, regularly
and frequently, at least 10 to12 times in 24 hours. They're
going to kind of make thetransition from the colostrum to
the white milk more smooth, andit'll be this kind of more
smooth transition. It's morewithin the realm of normal to
feel kind of heavy breasts orkind of fuller, or maybe a lot
(14:17):
fuller, but not necessarilypainful or hard or swollen.
Those are signs that maybe themilk hasn't been getting removed
as well as maybe we think we dothink the baby was doing, which
can happen for a variety ofreasons. But a baby who's
nursing well is avoidingengorgement.
Amanda Gorman (14:39):
Thank you for clarifying that. So we don't all
have to go through torture.
That's good to know. Okay, so wetalked that's, you know, the
engorgement side. Let's talkabout nipple care, cracking, and
bleeding. Are these common andwhat can women do for themselves
when this happens?
Adrienne Koznek (15:00):
Yes, it is common, but common does not
equal normal. And so I thinkthis is another one of these
things that is kind of in thecultural zeitgeist in society
about. It's this expected thing,maybe it's like a rite of
passage for breastfeeding, thatyou have to have these cracked
nipples and bleeding, and allthis terrible things- all these
(15:21):
terrible things. And it's a signthat something's wrong. It's a
sign that there's somethingwrong with the latch. And it
could be positioning, it couldbe anything from positioning, to
something going on with thebaby's oral structure, to how
the birth was. So it's alwaysimportant to identify what is
the issue causing the problem,and then treating treating the
(15:46):
problem, right. So crackednipples are a symptom of
something. So if you find thatyou're having that or if you're
having like, continued soreness,or bleeding or damage, see a
lactation consultant. Figure outwhere that's coming from. And
there's different treatmentsthat I like to use for nipple
(16:07):
damage, depending on theseverity of it, depending on the
parent. So that's why havingthat good, like individualized
plan for what's gonna best healyour nipples is that's good
information for parents to have.
Amanda Gorman (16:19):
Great. So before we take a break, let's talk a
quick minute about mastitis. Canyou tell us what that is, and
why would we get it?
Adrienne Koznek (16:30):
Mastitis is a breast infection and it comes
from milk stasis, whichbasically just means milk
sitting in the breast. It canalso happen when there's
bacteria introduced into thebreast by way of cracked
nipples, or when the tissue hasbeen compromised. So there's two
different types of mastitis.
There's viral mastitis andthere's bacteria mastitis. Um,
(16:53):
more often than not mastitisgets treated with antibiotics
and more often than not, itactually doesn't need
antibiotics. So it's alwaysreally, really important to
figure out what is causing themastitis. Is it this plugged
duct that is now inflating thebreasts? Do you have red
(17:13):
streaking on your breasts? Is itpainful to the touch? Hot to the
touch? Is it only in one breastor is it in to breasts, etc? So
really sussing out what thesymptoms are, can be really
helpful in treating it. So themost common reason I see
mastitis in the first couple ofdays or first couple of weeks is
(17:34):
because the milks not beingremoved properly. And that goes
back to the basics of is thebaby latched well? Are they
transferring milk and if you areending up with mastitis, then
your baby is likely not latchedwell, and they're likely not
transferring milk well.
Amanda Gorman (17:51):
Great. And thank you for mentioning kind of the
the importance of getting to theroot of the problem. Because as
you mentioned, in some cases,you can clear up mastitis with
antibiotics but you're likely tosee it again if you don't
correct what's driving it. So-
Adrienne Koznek (18:10):
Right yeah, and even more so everything that we
know about the the risksassociated with antibiotics and
what it does to our gut and toour gut health. Obviously, the
less we use it, the better, soif it can be avoided, then
that's certainly ideal.
Amanda Gorman (18:26):
Well, this is such great information.
Adrienne, we're going to take aquick break, but come back and I
would like to talk about some ofthe common roadblocks mom face
when they first get home. Sostay tuned.
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Hi mamas we are back withPortland based IBCLC Adrienne
Koznek, who is with us today tochat through what breastfeeding
moms can expect during thosefirst few days after coming home
from the hospital or whereverbaby arrives from. So just to
(19:56):
jump right to the nitty gritty,most postpartum nurses and
pediatricians might tell youthat poop is a great indicator
of how your baby's feeding. Sotalk us through that, Adrienne.
Adrienne Koznek (20:06):
Yes. So the- one of the biggest things that I
hear from parents is they feelworried that their baby's not
getting enough milk because theycan't measure how much milk
they're getting. They can'tphysically see how much milk
they're getting when they'redrinking from the breast. So I
get very excited to tell them,What if I told you there's a way
(20:26):
that you can know that doesn'thave to be measuring it from you
know, outside of the breast?" Sthe best way to do that is b
counting the diapers. That's whin the hospital, they have yo
track the diapers, it's whtracking it for the first coupl
of weeks while things are argetting established, it can b
really a useful tool. And so thnumber of poopy diapers and we
(20:51):
diapers that they're having in24 hour period is the greates
indicator that they're gettinenough milk, because what goe
in must be coming out. So iwe're having really adequate we
diapers, which in the firscouple of days can be based o
the number of days that they'ralive. So day one, they shoul
(21:12):
be having one wet diaper, onpoopy diaper. Day two, two we
diapers up to about day fiveAnd then typically what we wan
to see is about six to eight wediapers. And about three to fiv
poopy diapers that are goosize, and I'm holding up m
fingers to make about likehalf dollar size right now
That's considered a good sizedgood sized poop. And that's wha
(21:36):
we want to be looking for tobecause oftentimes, we're no
taking babies to get weigheevery single day. And certainly
I don't necessarily think thawe need to do that. So in th
absence of getting a weight othem very regularly, countin
those poops and those pees isgreat way to be making sure tha
they're on the right track
Amanda Gorman (21:58):
Awesome. And just for any mamas-to-be who are
listening and have never seenwhat breastfed babies poop looks
like, do you want to touch onthat real quick?
Adrienne Koznek (22:07):
Um, people always get really funny when I
ask them that, like, it's thisodd question. And I just think
nothing of it, because theyspend so much time talking about
what poop looks like. Yes, somany parents are surprised that
it's not solid or formed, itdoesn't look like I almost said
like regular human poop. But Idefinitely don't mean that. It
(22:31):
doesn't look like what our pooplooks like, it's going to be
very runny, it's going to bekind of liquidy, it's going to
be any variation of like yellow,maybe some orange, sometimes
there's some green in there. Ifthey are getting some formula,
then it can sometimes look alittle bit more brown. That's
(22:52):
that's what the breast milk poopshould look like after it has
transitioned from the meconiumpoops. So when you're in the
hospital, they're going to bevery excited to show you all of
those meconium poop diapers thatwe want to get out of the baby
as quickly as possible. And thenit should start to transition
over the next few days to startlooking more yellow, seedy, kind
(23:14):
of runny. Sometimes there can bevariations of green that are
within the realm of normal. I'min the Pacific Northwest. So I
like to tell people colors thatyou see on a tree around here
would be colors that are normalin breast milk poop.
Amanda Gorman (23:33):
I like that.
Adrienne Koznek (23:34):
Yeah.
Amanda Gorman (23:36):
So what about sleep? What is a good kind of
feeding, sleeping scheduleduring those first few days?
Adrienne Koznek (23:44):
I'm hesitant to call anything a schedule,
because babies need to nurseanywhere from 10 to 12 times in
24 hours. And that could beevery couple of hours, or it
could be every hour for a chunkof time. And then maybe they
sleep for three hours. It's notgoing to be this like straight
(24:04):
line linear, they eat this exactamount at these exact periods of
time. So in the first couple ofdays, what I tell parents to do
is be waking them to feed ifthey're not waking on their own.
Many babies do not wake on theirown to feed for the first couple
of days, that's normal,especially if they've had a
(24:25):
particularly arduous birth or ifthey received a lot of like
interventions in labor and indelivery. It can make babies
sleepy. So we wake them to feedand I kind of aim for this like
two and a halfish hour timeperiod. But what's most
important is to be knowing whatcues to look for for baby and
(24:48):
following those cues. Sotypically, babies will start to
show some early feeding cues andthey may start kind of stirring
in their sleep a little bit andthen that's a great time to get
them ready to feed and get themreally awakened with their
eyeballs showing so they're outof that sleep cycle and then
bring them to the breast. In thefirst couple of days, most
(25:10):
babies will feed and thenthey'll fall asleep. And then we
wake them up and we feed themand then they fall asleep. And
that's just, that's just theirlittle lives for a short
duration of time.
Amanda Gorman (25:23):
Very, very helpful. So what common problems
exist with breastfeeding earlyin those first few days that
moms might want to know aboutahead of time?
Adrienne Koznek (25:36):
Definitely the biggest complaints or concerns
that new parents have in thosefirst couple of days are my
nipples are sore, or they arepainful. What can I do about
that? So that's definitely oneof the most common things and
like I said before, commondoesn't mean normal. It's normal
to have some tenderness in thefirst couple of weeks. Two weeks
(25:59):
is pretty generous, I would say.
It's normal for there to betransient tenderness. It's not
normal, for there to be pain.
Pain is a sign that something iswrong. So where we have this
nipple soreness, the simplestexplanation is always going back
to the positioning, going backto making sure that the
breastfeeding parent has reallygood positioning of how they're
(26:20):
holding the baby. Is the babyclose enough to nurse well? Do
they have a good, deep, wideopen latch? And then does that
feel okay? So that's always kindof where we start. Other common
complaints that come up areengorgement or painful breast
once the milk has started totransition. And so we treat that
(26:43):
with a variety of differentthings, kind of depending on
what's most appropriate for thedyad. Um, and let's see. Those
are those are like, the biggestones that I that I have is my
baby's latch hurts me, why is ithurting? So we figure out is it
(27:03):
positioning. Is my- is the mom-is the breastfeeding parent
doing everything on their endthat they need that they need to
be doing correctly. And if it'sstill painful, if it's still
hurting them, then we have tolook at the baby, we have to be
looking at what's going on onbaby's end that is contributing
to this pain and this discomfortthat doesn't have to be
(27:24):
considered a normal part ofbreastfeeding.
Amanda Gorman (27:27):
One other thing I hear you all talk about in those
early days is cluster feeding.
Maybe you could share a littlebit about that. Because I know
that's fairly common as well.
Adrienne Koznek (27:39):
Yeah, cluster feeding is basically it's a time
where baby is doing a lot ofthings all at once. They-
sometimes parents will findthemselves sitting on the couch
for four hours at a time and thebaby just wants to nurse and
then they want to stop but thenewborn wants to nurse again,
and it can be every hour on thehour for a chunk of time. And
(28:01):
this is normal, it is not a signthat your milk supply is low or
is not enough. It is oftentimesthey do it because they're
either like going through acognitive leap or maybe a
physical growth spurt. They maybe like putting in an order to
increase your milk supply. Orthey may just be in that
(28:25):
particular time of day. Andcluster feeding is common-
commonly happens in the lateafternoon to like early evening
time. And it's just this timewhere you got to you know, have
your book ready on the couch andhave a seat and you know, know
that it will pass.
Amanda Gorman (28:44):
Very helpful. So if if moms are feeling anxious
at all, or hope- hopelessly,completely at a loss, who do
they reach out to? In you know,in other words, what resources
are available for them?
Adrienne Koznek (28:59):
I think that it's important for parents to
understand that InternationalBoard Certified Lactation
Consultants are the goldstandard for breastfeeding care.
So when you're looking for theexperts in breastfeeding and
chestfeeding and lactation, itis the lactation consultants. So
when there is a breastfeedingissue to be had come see, you
(29:23):
know, one of us and we can helpyou through that. And if it
feels like everything is hard,and it feels like it's beyond
what is normal for you. Ifyou're not feeling like your
heads right. Or if you'refeeling like you have some
depression or sadness or maybesome baby blues that may or may
not be related to breastfeeding,or if you're feeling anxious,
(29:46):
and that doesn't feel right toyou. Um, I always recommend
parents find support groups likePostpartum Support International
in the Portland area. There'sthe Baby Blues Connection and I
think now that so many thingsare online, you can probably-
they, they're probably providingpeer support all over. And so I-
(30:08):
the reason why I bring that upas a resource is because I think
that the breastfeeding parentsand the partner as well, like,
their mental well being is justas important as anything else
that we give them informationabout. So there's always going
to be support, there's alwaysgoing to be help, and we will
always point people in the rightdirection to get the support
(30:30):
that they need.
Amanda Gorman (30:32):
Good. That's great. Well, Adrienne, this has
been a really great chat. And itcertainly brought me back to my
early days with my own littles.
Breastfeeding is it was hard forme, it is hard for many, it
doesn't feel like there reallyis enough support out there for
(30:52):
moms to get when they reallyneed it. And to help them be
where they want to be for theirjourney. And that is really why
we exist. And we love IBCLCslike you who are helping our
moms gain more confidence andbuild those bonds with their
babies and go on to have reallyfantastic breastfeeding
(31:12):
experiences. So thank you forwhat you do. And is there
anything else you'd like to addbefore we close?
Adrienne Koznek (31:22):
I just think it's really, really good for new
parents to know that they're notalone, in any sense of the
imagination, especially now. Nowmore than ever, we're all in
such this like isolated place.
And new parents, especially, Ithink, feel that very physically
and emotionally this isolation,and they're not alone. And if
(31:43):
there is a concern that they'rehaving that, you know, we we
answer the questions. We are,we're there to help them figure
out if there even is anythingwrong. And we're here to point
out like, yeah, things are goingreally well and here's how you
can know that things are goingwell. And sometimes it can just
be really nice to hear that fromsomebody who is kind of on the
(32:06):
outside, you know, who canobjectively say, yeah, things
are going really well. Andyou're doing it, you're doing
the thing. So yeah, they're notalone.
Amanda Gorman (32:18):
No, I love that.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
I'm super appreciative of allyour knowledge. If our listeners
want to get in touch with you,what is the best way to do that?
Adrienne Koznek (32:27):
Through Nest Collaborative. That's the care
that I am providing these days.
Amanda Gorman (32:31):
Yes, she is there and is working, working a lot
with a lot of our moms that wewe love that, thank you.
Awesome. Well, mamas andmamas-to-be that is our episode
for today. As always, the showwas created by our experts
really just for you. So if thereis a question you have, or a
topic you'd like to be explored,that's why we're here. So send
(32:52):
us a message on Instagram orFacebook
@breastfeedingunplugged, orvisit our website at
breastfeedingunplugged.com formore information and a
transcript of today's show. It'sbeen fantastic sharing this half
hour with you and we willhopefully see you next week.
Until then it's me Amandasigning off. Boo bye. [Outro]
(33:19):
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
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