March 18, 2021 • 33 mins
What's with mom guilt, anyway? As women, we are made to think that we should have this mothering stuff down to a science and that it should all come naturally.
This holds especially true with breastfeeding. There are so many things that can go wrong and yet we are expected to know what we are doing even if we’ve never done it before. Hence the guilt, right?
According to the CDC, as many as four out of five moms start out breastfeeding, but only half are breastfeeding by six months of age and just a third are still breastfeeding at the 12-month mark. According to research conducted by lactation-pod company Mamava, 42 percent of moms end up supplementing with formula at some point in their baby’s first year.
So what’s the deal? Is breastfeeding something that mommas can actually succeed at? At what point is it ok to call it quits? Is formula really that bad?
Our guest today is Florida-based IBCLC Oneida Segura. In addition to being a lactation consultant, Oneida is also a Registered Nurse and has worked with new mothers in a breastfeeding, health, and education capacity for decades. She has three girls, one beautiful grandbaby boy, and she is proud to service the Spanish-speaking community in South Florida as well as breastfeeding moms around the country.
We hope you love today's episode all about formula feeding!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amanda Gorman (00:00):
[Intro] Breastfeeding Unplugged.
Welcome. Welcome. Welcome mamasand mamas to be. A podcast
dedicated to helping momsnavigate their way through the
tricky world of breastfeeding.
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
(00:26):
Hi there mamas and mamas to beand welcome to another episode
of Breastfeeding Unplugged. Idon't know if this rings true to
you, but when I wasbreastfeeding my two children, I
remember feeling a lot ofguilts. As women, we are made to
think that we should have thismothering thing down to a
science and that it should justall come naturally. This holds
(00:49):
especially true withbreastfeeding. Am I right? There
are so many things that can gowrong. And yet we are expected
to know what we're doing even ifwe've never done it before.
Hence the guilt. Right? If momsare made to breastfeed, then why
do so many struggle? And when itall becomes too much? Why do we
(01:10):
beat ourselves up about it? Ifyou're like me, you know that
what all this really feels likeand that you and I are probably
not alone. According to the CDC,as many as four out of five moms
start out breastfeeding, butonly half are breastfeeding by
six months, and just a third arestill breastfeeding at 12
(01:31):
months. According to theresearch conducted by a
lactation pod company, Mamava,42% of moms end up supplementing
with formula at some point intheir baby's first year. So
what's the deal? Isbreastfeeding something that
moms can actually succeed at?
And what, at what point is itokay to call it quits? Is
formula really that bad? Ourguest today is Florida based
(01:54):
IBCLC Oneida Segura. In additionto being a lactation consultant,
Oneida is also a registerednurse and has worked with new
mothers in a breastfeedinghealth and education capacity
for decades. She has threegirls, one beautiful, grand baby
boy. And she is proud to servicethe Spanish speaking community
(02:15):
in South Florida, as well asbreastfeeding moms around the
country. So welcome to the show,Oneida.
Oneida Segura (02:22):
Thank you for inviting me.
Amanda Gorman (02:24):
Of course, we're thrilled to have you here.
Before I dive into my questions,I'd love to hear you tell a
little bit about your backgroundand how you got started as a
lactation consultant.
Oneida Segura (02:34):
Well, 30 years ago, I have my first baby. And I
struggle, as you said, a lotwith breastfeeding. And I felt
guilty and I didn't find anysupport. My pediatrician was
just telling me to drink a cupof wine because I was too tense.
(02:55):
And I don't like to drink. Sothat advice didn't help me a lot
and like you have to besomething else that, you know,
mommies get help and supportwith this task. So I was very
frustrated. And by the time Igot my second baby, I had to
(03:15):
give myself a little bit more.
And I found that it was you itwas support that it was La Leche
League. And I was like, why thepediatrician even told me at
least that, that I could askanother mom or somebody else
with the difficulties that Ihave. So I said I would like to
(03:36):
be able to help mommies. And Ibecame a lactation consultant
and a registered nurse andstarted working with quaner
mommies and postpartum andhelping them get that support
that education that I didn'thave. Because I feel like you
know, if somebody had helped me,my story will have been very
(04:01):
different. So when I help a momand and she accomplish her
goals, that is like the world tome, if it's only one mom that
breastfeed because myintervention it made my day. So
that's how I started with my ownexperiences.
Amanda Gorman (04:22):
I love it. I love it. And I hear that quite
frequently from our team at NestCollaborative how they initially
became lactation consultants wasthrough their own experience
breastfeeding, positive ornegative. So thank you for
sharing that. So let's start.
I'd like to talk a little bitfirst about breastfeeding and
formula feeding. Most moms getjust kind of thrown into
(04:45):
breastfeeding as soon as theirbaby is delivered. And we hear
people tell us all the time thatbreast is best and and we know
breast milk is is the bestnutrition for baby. But what do
you think the major advantagesand disadvantages might be for
breastfeeding.
Oneida Segura (05:04):
Well, advantages, it has all the advantages,
right? I will define thebenefits of breastfeeding as in
one phrase, you know, human milkfor a human being. But it's also
a personal decision. It doesn'twork for every mom. Like, not
(05:25):
all woman wants to be a mother.
The majority wants to have afamily and be a mother. There is
someone there's some woman thatdoesn't want to be a mother. So
breastfeeding is also like that.
It does have to be that desireplus dedication, but the mom has
(05:45):
to be something that work fornow. Not feel pressured by
society or feel pressure by themedical community, because you
have to do that. It's somethingthat you have to come natural
for demand desire, like shedecided to become pregnant, she
should be desiring to breastfeedtoo. So so mom's struggling a
(06:08):
lot and unfortunate, sohealthcare professionals, make
the mother feel guilty if shedecided not to, um, is not
right, we need to respect themother's decision. There's
mothers that don't want a babyon the breast. They don't want
to breastfeed, even if they haveplenty of milk. And it's hard to
(06:30):
judge that because sometimes wedon't know, in the past of their
mother, what happened. There'smother that had been sexually
abused. And they don't want ababy in their breast because it
make them retrieve that badexperience. So it could be
physical, it could bepsychological reasons. It could
(06:52):
be work reasons. This could itcould be many reasons. So we
have to be gentle and identifythe mom's desire first, and then
counseling. Yes, alwaysbreastmilk will be the best. But
if it doesn't work for the mom,it doesn't work. And it's okay.
Amanda Gorman (07:11):
Yeah, no, I I think that's super helpful. And,
you know, we face you know,women coming from all
situations, backgrounds, areasat at Nest Collaborative. And I
think collectively, we agreethat education and information
is key. But that's our job. Andonce we've delivered the
information and the education,it's about helping mom do what
(07:35):
she's decided to do. So I thinkyou're spot on. So let's, let's
paint the picture of of whatthose first few days for the
moms that decide to initiatebreastfeeding. What those first
few days and weeks with anewborn look like, you know,
what common issues do they runinto when they're feeding for
the first time?
Oneida Segura (07:56):
Yes, mothers need to understand that breastfeeding
is not just natural. Did youhave a baby, you have words, and
you put the baby in diapers andoh wow everything goes? Well,
it's gonna be difficult. Andthere's a lot of things
interfering with breastfeeding.
So it could be medicalprocedures. If the mommies
(08:17):
receive tons of fluids, hernipples can be swollen, and they
look like they're flat orinverted. And then we have
healthcare professionals tellingthe mom oh you cannot breastfeed
because you have like nipples,or inverted nipples or whatever.
And, and sometimes thosecomments are, have have good
(08:38):
intentions, but it's telling themom you don't have the equipment
to do the job. So I startgetting the mom like, I cannot
do this, you know, instead ofbeing supportive and said, you
know, let's try it. Let's see.
You know 'cause things will getbetter. So that is why they
(08:59):
support at the moment surroundherself around healthcare
professionals, family, friends,is so important because it's
very sensitive. Timing after youdeliver, your hormones are
crazy. You have those moodchanges. You have a new baby
that you never have somebody totake care of 24/7, you have two
(09:24):
or three days in labor or prelabor, you might have a C
section or you might have topush for a long time. So all the
things need to be taken inconsideration not just putting
the baby at the breast. Is thema- mom physically able to put
the baby at the breast as soonas the baby's born? Ideally,
(09:44):
yes, we will like that the babycome out of the womb and go to
the breasts and nursed perfectlyfine, but it might not be
feasible for some moms. Theymight be too tired. They might
be exhausted, they might, Ithey're even hungry because
they're not eating for, when youfor 48 hours, probably,
depending on how long they werewas. So it's just being gentle.
(10:08):
And I tell moms, you know,breastfeeding is not a
destination. Breastfeeding is ajourney is not a destination. So
you're going to breastfeed thisbaby as long as you want. You
don't have to do it in certaintime, immediately, or whenever
somebody else says. Giveyourself time. Time to know your
(10:31):
baby. Time to bond with yourbaby. So for me, the first thing
you have issue happen is theskin for skin. For that mommy
and the baby is hard to knowingeach other start bonding, and
then we can get the baby to thebreast.
Amanda Gorman (10:48):
That's great.
Oneida Segura (10:49):
So in the first days, just be patient, just work
with your baby. Do a lot of skinto skin when is possible. And
and just start knowing that thisis a new skill, the baby has to
learn how to breastfeed, amother has to learn how to
(11:10):
breastfeed, okay, and they justsometimes need time, ideally,
and a lot of babies can just beborn. And they are those babies
that we call barracuda, theycome to the breast and. And they
are like I don't need noteaching. I don't need nothing.
I know what to do. But we haveother babies who are more
[unknown], and they're one needsome help. And they don't want
(11:35):
to do the job or there might besome sleepy babies. So when mom
feel that pressure that she hadto feed that she had to feed the
baby that she had to feed thebaby doesn't make things worse,
because now she's very anxious.
And now she doesn't know what todo and the baby's not
cooperating. And, and we aretelling them, oh, baby's gonna
lose too much weight, andthey're making things worse for
(11:57):
her because now she thinks thatthe world is gonna end or she's
a bad mother and we should avoidthat.
Amanda Gorman (12:05):
Mm hmm.
Absolutely. And that's whatlactation consultants are here
for is to help moms, you know,like that, get through those
first few days. Let's talk alittle bit about milk supply. I
think just about every mom isworried that her baby is hungry
after a feed or wonders if thebaby got enough milk. How do you
(12:28):
know if you're producing enough?
Oneida Segura (12:33):
Well, in the first three to five days, mom
has been no colostrum andcolostrum is producing very
small amounts. So baby needsmall amounts to eat. So putting
the baby at the breast, andmommy knowing that breastfeeding
should not hurt so that she isgetting the baby's getting a
(12:56):
good latch, that baby willtransfer the colostrum that the
baby needs. If talking about ahealthy baby, that's all the
baby needs. And how do we knowthat, because baby's happy, baby
is eating frequent, and thediaper output. Baby sleeping,
babies poop. And when we weighthe baby, baby lose weight. That
(13:20):
is normal up to 10%, 7 to 10% ofthe birth weight in the first
days of life. But baby need tostart with gaining weight. And
that's how we know the mom isbreastfeeding and baby's getting
the nutrition that the babyneeds. If the baby has a
(13:40):
problem, maybe have anycondition that baby might need
additional supplementation morethan colostrum can provide. That
time then the mother cansubstitute her breast milk, not
substitute I supplement the babywith in this case will be
(14:05):
formula. But the idea of thosefirst day to for mom to maintain
her milk supply is that the babyneed to be supplemented in the
first week of life. We should bedoing it with artificial
supplementation withsupplementation methods and not
just a bottle so the baby can besupplemented with a spoon, a
(14:28):
syringe, with a cup, andcontinue being at the breast. So
let's see that a newborn has lowblood sugar and mommy start
breastfeeding giving thecolostrum that we know it will
increase the blood sugars of thebaby but the baby is still is
not recovering as fast as wewould like to see. We can give
(14:49):
five or 10 ml of formula in asyringe and put the baby back to
the breast to get theircolostrum. The baby will recover
faster and mommy's maintainingthe breastfeeding relationship,
and mommy is maintaining hermilk supply. So what happens
sometimes in the hospital iswhen we tell the mom that the
(15:11):
baby needs to be supplemented,and we start giving formula, mom
forget to put the baby back atthe breast. And that's when milk
supply issues come. Baby's notlatching correctly. And baby is
skipping meals at the breast.
And all the problems can comeafter that.
Amanda Gorman (15:35):
I think you bring up a really good point.
Certainly I didn't know. And Ithink a lot of new mothers know
that there are alternative waysto feed an a newborn, whether
it's breast milk, donor milksupplemented or formula, such as
on your finger, or with a spoon,or with even a little medicine
(15:58):
cup, or like you mentioned asyringe. And how using those
methods can be very, verybeneficial for maintaining, you
know, a good breastfeedingregimen and supply. So thank you
because that that was certainlynew to me when I had my first
child. So if you have a mom whoindeed is not producing enough
(16:22):
milk, what do you do? Can yougive us your top tips for
increasing milk supply?
Oneida Segura (16:29):
The first, I would like to find out if there
is a reason why she's notproducing. So doing an
assessment, what is going on. Ifit's a medical condition, that
mom may have a hormonal orendocrine problem that is not
allowing her to produce enoughmilk, or it's just because the
(16:50):
mommy is not removing milk. Somilk production is [unknown] by
milk removal. So the more milkis removed from the breast with
a baby or a pump, the more milkdemand we produce. So she's not
producing really what is goingon, because we know the reason
we can find a reason most of thetime, then we can target the
(17:15):
reason and increase her milkproduction. But skin to skin, if
it's this is a newborn baby,stimulate milk production and
how baby come down and go to thebreast more common. Relaxed,
frequent feeding, that we makesure that baby is transferring
(17:36):
milk. Because there is more thestatus that I'm breastfeeding
for 45 minutes for an hour,every two hours. I'm like oh my
god. That baby might be on thebreast for that period of time,
but it's not getting milk fromthe breast. So being at the
breast is not the same as eatingat the breast. So we need to
(18:02):
teach the mother to make surethat she knows the size that the
baby is transferring milk. Amother that says okay, I
breastfeed for 45 minutes andthen the baby take a bottle of
breast milk or formula twoounces. I'm like your milk
supply is gonna be reducedbecause you are not removing
(18:23):
milk. Baby is not getting to[unknown]. So finding the cause
can help the mommy understandwhat the plan of action is gonna
be. And just telling her to pumpmight not be the solution. So we
really sometimes we as thehealthcare professionals, lack
(18:45):
of that time to say oh you justneed to pump. I have a mom the
other day crying telling me herstory that the lactation
consultant told her at thehospital to pump every two
hours. Okay, well done solution,that's the solution problem be
solved. When I talked to the momshe said physically, I cannot
(19:06):
pump every two hours because Ionly have one hand. I like oh my
god, you see. So sometimes whenwe give advice, we really have
to look at the whole picture tomake sure that this is possible.
So how this mom felt when shewas told you need to pump every
(19:30):
two hours and she couldn't do itbecause she only have one hand.
So that's why we this this is adelicate environment where we
are counseling these mommies butwe really need to make sure that
we are targeting the problem andwe are knowing what is really
(19:53):
gonna work for the mom.
Amanda Gorman (19:56):
Everyone's individualized. You know this is
such great information thatyou're providing and I hope that
it's it's sharing with the momsand moms to be who are listening
how much information there is toknow and learn. And, and
certainly empowering moms to notto hesitate to reach out for
(20:17):
help with consultants early. Youknow what something that I know
you do with us at NestCollaborative is really
emphasize the importance of moreproactive engagement with
lactation consultants, notwaiting until there's a big
problem, or you have aninfection, or babies lost
weight. That that there's somuch to learn and know and mom
(20:40):
shouldn't be expected to learnit all from a book or learn it
all at once in the hospital.
That that really engaging andgetting guidance throughout the
entire journey is so helpful. Sothank you. It's been really
interesting, everything thatyou've shared so far, and I
still actually have a ton ofquestions to ask you. We are
going to take a very quickbreak, and we'll be back with
(21:02):
Oneida in just a minute. So staywith us.
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Welcome back mamas and mamas tobe. It's Amanda and I am here
(22:11):
with IBCLC Oneida Segura,talking about breastfeeding
versus formula feeding and howmoms can make the best decisions
for themselves and their littleones. Oneida I know that
breastfeeding can be very hardand very emotional for the new
mom. I have so many friends whosay it was probably the toughest
part of those first few monthswith their little one. So when
(22:32):
should a mom reach out for helpif they're struggling both
physically and emotionally.
Oneida Segura (22:38):
Ideally, mom will have their support system set up
before she deliver. So ideally,if she had been [unknown] can
help a lot because now she knowswhat to do. And she knows who to
reach when there a problemarise. So as soon as the mom
(23:00):
have a problem, and I get theseevery day consulting with a mom,
and we ask how is the latch andthe mom said the latch is good.
How are your nipples? My nipplesare sore, crack, and bleeding. I
like the latch is not good. Nothave a good latch if you having
(23:25):
such problems. And how long haveyou been having these problems
for three weeks for one monthfor two months? And I call them
that they are [unknown]. How canyou have this problem for so
long before you reach now forhelp. So moms should be reaching
out for help before they havethe baby. You build a support
(23:48):
system. And i- immediately afterthese babies born and she's
having problems when I doprenatal education, I tell mums,
you know, you might not be ableto retain everything we're
talking about in this class. Butat least I want you to make an
effort to remember one thingfrom our conversation.
(24:12):
Breastfeeding should not hurt.
And pain is your guide thatthere's a problem that need to
be solved immediately. And I didit myself with my first baby. I
have my baby on my breast and hehurts. I was seeing the stars.
And I said okay, it's fine. Assoon as my baby's eating, I'm
okay I can tolerate the pain.
(24:37):
That's fine. I didn't know thatwhen he hurts, maybe it's not
eating and problems startarising because now the baby's
hungry all the time. And now youhave these babies crying all the
time of hunger and your nipplesare getting more sore, and
crack, and bleeding, and fallingoff. Terrible things to happen.
(25:00):
So moms need to understand thatbreastfeeding should be pleasant
is is an enjoyable thing toshare with you baby. You're
sharing a meal, you are bondingwith your baby, and you should
not be in pain. So pain is[unknown]. If you hurts, you
need to find help immediately.
Wow, boy, all the problems thatwill come after.
Amanda Gorman (25:26):
Absolutely. I know a lot of moms who really
beat themselves up when they dohave to supplement for one
reason or another, or even justswitch entirely to something
other than their own milk. Whydo you think, you know, formula
has this bad reputation?
Oneida Segura (25:46):
Well I don't think formula have a bad
reputation. Breast breast milkis breast milk is best. And
formula is an artificial, nope,this is a supplement. But again,
it's the choice of the mothershow the baby's going to be fed.
(26:06):
If baby need to be supplemented,ideally, mommy can supplement
with their own milk, she canpump, and provide that nutrition
for the baby. But if thatdoesn't work for the mom, the
best thing after breastfeeding,after breast milk, then it will
be formula. So the mother cannotbreastfeed for one reason or the
(26:32):
other, then the choice will be adonor milk that might not be
feasible. And then formula. ButI don't think it's because they
have a bad reputation it'sbecause formula can't provide
the nutrition that the babyneeds. And there's no doubt
(26:54):
about it. But breast milkprovides the immunity, the
protection, the energy. Breastmilk change with time to adapt
to the baby's nutritional needs,breast milk change flavors,
depending on what mommy's eatingso it stimulate not just not
(27:19):
just not providing the nutritionbut also stimulating the other
senses. Babies can have betterspeech, because they use all the
muscles in their mouth to tobreastfeed so babies are more
intelligent when they are fedwith breast milk because it has
(27:41):
certain enzymes and proteins andnutrients that work directly in
a human brain that formulacannot do that. So is the
benefits of breast milk. Thatformula is not comparable. But
in the nutrition part, if themom cannot have breast milk then
(28:03):
formula is a substitute.
Amanda Gorman (28:06):
Wonderful. Thank you. You know, just to wrap up,
I'd love to get your three toptips for any mom who has had it
up to here with breastfeeding.
What would you tell her?
Oneida Segura (28:21):
Um, I will ask what what do you want to do?
Breastfeeding is more also thanjust nutrition. There's more
there's they might not have awhole milk supply. But they can
still put that baby at thebreast and enjoy the pleasure of
feeding her baby, even if thebaby might need to be
(28:42):
supplemented after. So dependson what the mommy's goals are. I
will tell them enjoy yourbreastfeeding journey in any way
that you can. If it'sexclusively breastfeeding, or if
it's partially breastfeeding,whatever works for you. When I'm
(29:03):
consulting a mom and she'scrying, and she's not sleeping,
and she's miserable. I saidbreastfeeding is not working for
you. So you really need to enjoyyour baby. And I asked the
mother what is the mostimportant thing at this moment.
(29:26):
And they are like, that I wantto breastfeed exclusively. And I
say no. The most important thingis that you are healthy to take
care of your baby, and your babyis healthy. And how you feed the
baby will become in a secondplace. So let's take care of you
(29:47):
because you're crying, you'renot sleeping, you're not eating,
you're not taking care ofyourself. And if you get sick,
then you're not gonna be able totake care of your baby. So let's
take the nutrition and thefeeding part and put it aside.
And now let's concentrate on youand your baby to be able to
(30:09):
enjoy this time together to beable to remember, when your baby
was two weeks old, when yourbaby was a month old, how you
enjoy those moments. And ifbreastfeeding in this case is
interfering with that joy, weneed to find alternatives, and
(30:29):
give yourself permission thatis, okay, you're breast feeding
for some work for you and yourbaby, you might work for another
baby when you have another one.
But let's put in perspective,what is more important than your
family than just breastfeedingis not all or nothing. So when
(30:51):
moms relax, when the mom knowthat, she can do all the things,
that's really my work better forthe mom. Because now she's
taking the pressure that she'sputting on herself. And maybe
some of the problems is becauseof the stress that she needs.
(31:12):
She's not sleeping, she's noteating, she's, you know,
mentally, if we don't take careof also the mental health with a
physical health, and thenthey're going to be also
misbalanced there. So we need topreserve mom emotional state,
and be able to take care of herbaby, and not just concentrate
(31:38):
on the breastfeeding part.
Amanda Gorman (31:43):
Absolutely. And such an important point in
preserving mom's mental healthbecause plenty of moms do
struggle with that postpartum.
So thank you for bringing thatto the table. This really has
been an interestingconversation. And I think you've
helped debunk some informationabout breast versus formula
feeding. But I know you've alsoprobably put some of our
(32:06):
listeners minds at ease. So Iknow that as mothers we have
this pressure to get it rightall the time and do what we
think is best and breastfeedingis certainly one of those parts
of being a mom that can beincredibly daunting mentally. So
thanks for clearing the air andgiving mom's all some breathing
space. We loved having youOneida so thank you and in
(32:29):
addition to being an IBCLC withNest Collaborative, Oneida is
also a native Spanish speaker,which is such a comfort to our
Spanish and Latina mommies. Howcan our listeners reach you if
they're looking for help?
Oneida Segura (32:46):
At Nest Collaborative.
Amanda Gorman (32:48):
Yes, please do.
We love having you on our teamat Nest Collaborative. You've
been such a wonderful gift. Sothank you so much for coming on
today's show.
Oneida Segura (32:58):
Thank you for inviting me.
Amanda Gorman (32:59):
Of course. Well, mamas and mamas to be that is
today's show. As always, we'rehere to give you all the support
that you need to make sure thatyour breastfeeding journey is a
success. If you have a topicthat you'd like talked about, we
are all ears so send us amessage on Instagram or Facebook
@breastfeedingunplugged, orvisit our website at
Breastfeedingunplugged.com. It'sbeen awesome sharing this time
(33:22):
with you. Until next week. It'sme Amanda saying boo bye.
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[Intro] Breastfeeding Unplugged.
Welcome. Welcome. Welcome mamasand mamas to be. A podcast
dedicated to helping momsnavigate their way through the
tricky world of breastfeeding.
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
(00:26):
Hi there mamas and mamas to beand welcome to another episode
of Breastfeeding Unplugged. Idon't know if this rings true to
you, but when I wasbreastfeeding my two children, I
remember feeling a lot ofguilts. As women, we are made to
think that we should have thismothering thing down to a
science and that it should justall come naturally. This holds
(00:49):
especially true withbreastfeeding. Am I right? There
are so many things that can gowrong. And yet we are expected
to know what we're doing even ifwe've never done it before.
Hence the guilt. Right? If momsare made to breastfeed, then why
do so many struggle? And when itall becomes too much? Why do we
(01:10):
beat ourselves up about it? Ifyou're like me, you know that
what all this really feels likeand that you and I are probably
not alone. According to the CDC,as many as four out of five moms
start out breastfeeding, butonly half are breastfeeding by
six months, and just a third arestill breastfeeding at 12
(01:31):
months. According to theresearch conducted by a
lactation pod company, Mamava,42% of moms end up supplementing
with formula at some point intheir baby's first year. So
what's the deal? Isbreastfeeding something that
moms can actually succeed at?
And what, at what point is itokay to call it quits? Is
formula really that bad? Ourguest today is Florida based
(01:54):
IBCLC Oneida Segura. In additionto being a lactation consultant,
Oneida is also a registerednurse and has worked with new
mothers in a breastfeedinghealth and education capacity
for decades. She has threegirls, one beautiful, grand baby
boy. And she is proud to servicethe Spanish speaking community
(02:15):
in South Florida, as well asbreastfeeding moms around the
country. So welcome to the show,Oneida.
Oneida Segura (02:22):
Thank you for inviting me.
Amanda Gorman (02:24):
Of course, we're thrilled to have you here.
Before I dive into my questions,I'd love to hear you tell a
little bit about your backgroundand how you got started as a
lactation consultant.
Oneida Segura (02:34):
Well, 30 years ago, I have my first baby. And I
struggle, as you said, a lotwith breastfeeding. And I felt
guilty and I didn't find anysupport. My pediatrician was
just telling me to drink a cupof wine because I was too tense.
(02:55):
And I don't like to drink. Sothat advice didn't help me a lot
and like you have to besomething else that, you know,
mommies get help and supportwith this task. So I was very
frustrated. And by the time Igot my second baby, I had to
(03:15):
give myself a little bit more.
And I found that it was you itwas support that it was La Leche
League. And I was like, why thepediatrician even told me at
least that, that I could askanother mom or somebody else
with the difficulties that Ihave. So I said I would like to
(03:36):
be able to help mommies. And Ibecame a lactation consultant
and a registered nurse andstarted working with quaner
mommies and postpartum andhelping them get that support
that education that I didn'thave. Because I feel like you
know, if somebody had helped me,my story will have been very
(04:01):
different. So when I help a momand and she accomplish her
goals, that is like the world tome, if it's only one mom that
breastfeed because myintervention it made my day. So
that's how I started with my ownexperiences.
Amanda Gorman (04:22):
I love it. I love it. And I hear that quite
frequently from our team at NestCollaborative how they initially
became lactation consultants wasthrough their own experience
breastfeeding, positive ornegative. So thank you for
sharing that. So let's start.
I'd like to talk a little bitfirst about breastfeeding and
formula feeding. Most moms getjust kind of thrown into
(04:45):
breastfeeding as soon as theirbaby is delivered. And we hear
people tell us all the time thatbreast is best and and we know
breast milk is is the bestnutrition for baby. But what do
you think the major advantagesand disadvantages might be for
breastfeeding.
Oneida Segura (05:04):
Well, advantages, it has all the advantages,
right? I will define thebenefits of breastfeeding as in
one phrase, you know, human milkfor a human being. But it's also
a personal decision. It doesn'twork for every mom. Like, not
(05:25):
all woman wants to be a mother.
The majority wants to have afamily and be a mother. There is
someone there's some woman thatdoesn't want to be a mother. So
breastfeeding is also like that.
It does have to be that desireplus dedication, but the mom has
(05:45):
to be something that work fornow. Not feel pressured by
society or feel pressure by themedical community, because you
have to do that. It's somethingthat you have to come natural
for demand desire, like shedecided to become pregnant, she
should be desiring to breastfeedtoo. So so mom's struggling a
(06:08):
lot and unfortunate, sohealthcare professionals, make
the mother feel guilty if shedecided not to, um, is not
right, we need to respect themother's decision. There's
mothers that don't want a babyon the breast. They don't want
to breastfeed, even if they haveplenty of milk. And it's hard to
(06:30):
judge that because sometimes wedon't know, in the past of their
mother, what happened. There'smother that had been sexually
abused. And they don't want ababy in their breast because it
make them retrieve that badexperience. So it could be
physical, it could bepsychological reasons. It could
(06:52):
be work reasons. This could itcould be many reasons. So we
have to be gentle and identifythe mom's desire first, and then
counseling. Yes, alwaysbreastmilk will be the best. But
if it doesn't work for the mom,it doesn't work. And it's okay.
Amanda Gorman (07:11):
Yeah, no, I I think that's super helpful. And,
you know, we face you know,women coming from all
situations, backgrounds, areasat at Nest Collaborative. And I
think collectively, we agreethat education and information
is key. But that's our job. Andonce we've delivered the
information and the education,it's about helping mom do what
(07:35):
she's decided to do. So I thinkyou're spot on. So let's, let's
paint the picture of of whatthose first few days for the
moms that decide to initiatebreastfeeding. What those first
few days and weeks with anewborn look like, you know,
what common issues do they runinto when they're feeding for
the first time?
Oneida Segura (07:56):
Yes, mothers need to understand that breastfeeding
is not just natural. Did youhave a baby, you have words, and
you put the baby in diapers andoh wow everything goes? Well,
it's gonna be difficult. Andthere's a lot of things
interfering with breastfeeding.
So it could be medicalprocedures. If the mommies
(08:17):
receive tons of fluids, hernipples can be swollen, and they
look like they're flat orinverted. And then we have
healthcare professionals tellingthe mom oh you cannot breastfeed
because you have like nipples,or inverted nipples or whatever.
And, and sometimes thosecomments are, have have good
(08:38):
intentions, but it's telling themom you don't have the equipment
to do the job. So I startgetting the mom like, I cannot
do this, you know, instead ofbeing supportive and said, you
know, let's try it. Let's see.
You know 'cause things will getbetter. So that is why they
(08:59):
support at the moment surroundherself around healthcare
professionals, family, friends,is so important because it's
very sensitive. Timing after youdeliver, your hormones are
crazy. You have those moodchanges. You have a new baby
that you never have somebody totake care of 24/7, you have two
(09:24):
or three days in labor or prelabor, you might have a C
section or you might have topush for a long time. So all the
things need to be taken inconsideration not just putting
the baby at the breast. Is thema- mom physically able to put
the baby at the breast as soonas the baby's born? Ideally,
(09:44):
yes, we will like that the babycome out of the womb and go to
the breasts and nursed perfectlyfine, but it might not be
feasible for some moms. Theymight be too tired. They might
be exhausted, they might, Ithey're even hungry because
they're not eating for, when youfor 48 hours, probably,
depending on how long they werewas. So it's just being gentle.
(10:08):
And I tell moms, you know,breastfeeding is not a
destination. Breastfeeding is ajourney is not a destination. So
you're going to breastfeed thisbaby as long as you want. You
don't have to do it in certaintime, immediately, or whenever
somebody else says. Giveyourself time. Time to know your
(10:31):
baby. Time to bond with yourbaby. So for me, the first thing
you have issue happen is theskin for skin. For that mommy
and the baby is hard to knowingeach other start bonding, and
then we can get the baby to thebreast.
Amanda Gorman (10:48):
That's great.
Oneida Segura (10:49):
So in the first days, just be patient, just work
with your baby. Do a lot of skinto skin when is possible. And
and just start knowing that thisis a new skill, the baby has to
learn how to breastfeed, amother has to learn how to
(11:10):
breastfeed, okay, and they justsometimes need time, ideally,
and a lot of babies can just beborn. And they are those babies
that we call barracuda, theycome to the breast and. And they
are like I don't need noteaching. I don't need nothing.
I know what to do. But we haveother babies who are more
[unknown], and they're one needsome help. And they don't want
(11:35):
to do the job or there might besome sleepy babies. So when mom
feel that pressure that she hadto feed that she had to feed the
baby that she had to feed thebaby doesn't make things worse,
because now she's very anxious.
And now she doesn't know what todo and the baby's not
cooperating. And, and we aretelling them, oh, baby's gonna
lose too much weight, andthey're making things worse for
(11:57):
her because now she thinks thatthe world is gonna end or she's
a bad mother and we should avoidthat.
Amanda Gorman (12:05):
Mm hmm.
Absolutely. And that's whatlactation consultants are here
for is to help moms, you know,like that, get through those
first few days. Let's talk alittle bit about milk supply. I
think just about every mom isworried that her baby is hungry
after a feed or wonders if thebaby got enough milk. How do you
(12:28):
know if you're producing enough?
Oneida Segura (12:33):
Well, in the first three to five days, mom
has been no colostrum andcolostrum is producing very
small amounts. So baby needsmall amounts to eat. So putting
the baby at the breast, andmommy knowing that breastfeeding
should not hurt so that she isgetting the baby's getting a
(12:56):
good latch, that baby willtransfer the colostrum that the
baby needs. If talking about ahealthy baby, that's all the
baby needs. And how do we knowthat, because baby's happy, baby
is eating frequent, and thediaper output. Baby sleeping,
babies poop. And when we weighthe baby, baby lose weight. That
(13:20):
is normal up to 10%, 7 to 10% ofthe birth weight in the first
days of life. But baby need tostart with gaining weight. And
that's how we know the mom isbreastfeeding and baby's getting
the nutrition that the babyneeds. If the baby has a
(13:40):
problem, maybe have anycondition that baby might need
additional supplementation morethan colostrum can provide. That
time then the mother cansubstitute her breast milk, not
substitute I supplement the babywith in this case will be
(14:05):
formula. But the idea of thosefirst day to for mom to maintain
her milk supply is that the babyneed to be supplemented in the
first week of life. We should bedoing it with artificial
supplementation withsupplementation methods and not
just a bottle so the baby can besupplemented with a spoon, a
(14:28):
syringe, with a cup, andcontinue being at the breast. So
let's see that a newborn has lowblood sugar and mommy start
breastfeeding giving thecolostrum that we know it will
increase the blood sugars of thebaby but the baby is still is
not recovering as fast as wewould like to see. We can give
(14:49):
five or 10 ml of formula in asyringe and put the baby back to
the breast to get theircolostrum. The baby will recover
faster and mommy's maintainingthe breastfeeding relationship,
and mommy is maintaining hermilk supply. So what happens
sometimes in the hospital iswhen we tell the mom that the
(15:11):
baby needs to be supplemented,and we start giving formula, mom
forget to put the baby back atthe breast. And that's when milk
supply issues come. Baby's notlatching correctly. And baby is
skipping meals at the breast.
And all the problems can comeafter that.
Amanda Gorman (15:35):
I think you bring up a really good point.
Certainly I didn't know. And Ithink a lot of new mothers know
that there are alternative waysto feed an a newborn, whether
it's breast milk, donor milksupplemented or formula, such as
on your finger, or with a spoon,or with even a little medicine
(15:58):
cup, or like you mentioned asyringe. And how using those
methods can be very, verybeneficial for maintaining, you
know, a good breastfeedingregimen and supply. So thank you
because that that was certainlynew to me when I had my first
child. So if you have a mom whoindeed is not producing enough
(16:22):
milk, what do you do? Can yougive us your top tips for
increasing milk supply?
Oneida Segura (16:29):
The first, I would like to find out if there
is a reason why she's notproducing. So doing an
assessment, what is going on. Ifit's a medical condition, that
mom may have a hormonal orendocrine problem that is not
allowing her to produce enoughmilk, or it's just because the
(16:50):
mommy is not removing milk. Somilk production is [unknown] by
milk removal. So the more milkis removed from the breast with
a baby or a pump, the more milkdemand we produce. So she's not
producing really what is goingon, because we know the reason
we can find a reason most of thetime, then we can target the
(17:15):
reason and increase her milkproduction. But skin to skin, if
it's this is a newborn baby,stimulate milk production and
how baby come down and go to thebreast more common. Relaxed,
frequent feeding, that we makesure that baby is transferring
(17:36):
milk. Because there is more thestatus that I'm breastfeeding
for 45 minutes for an hour,every two hours. I'm like oh my
god. That baby might be on thebreast for that period of time,
but it's not getting milk fromthe breast. So being at the
breast is not the same as eatingat the breast. So we need to
(18:02):
teach the mother to make surethat she knows the size that the
baby is transferring milk. Amother that says okay, I
breastfeed for 45 minutes andthen the baby take a bottle of
breast milk or formula twoounces. I'm like your milk
supply is gonna be reducedbecause you are not removing
(18:23):
milk. Baby is not getting to[unknown]. So finding the cause
can help the mommy understandwhat the plan of action is gonna
be. And just telling her to pumpmight not be the solution. So we
really sometimes we as thehealthcare professionals, lack
(18:45):
of that time to say oh you justneed to pump. I have a mom the
other day crying telling me herstory that the lactation
consultant told her at thehospital to pump every two
hours. Okay, well done solution,that's the solution problem be
solved. When I talked to the momshe said physically, I cannot
(19:06):
pump every two hours because Ionly have one hand. I like oh my
god, you see. So sometimes whenwe give advice, we really have
to look at the whole picture tomake sure that this is possible.
So how this mom felt when shewas told you need to pump every
(19:30):
two hours and she couldn't do itbecause she only have one hand.
So that's why we this this is adelicate environment where we
are counseling these mommies butwe really need to make sure that
we are targeting the problem andwe are knowing what is really
(19:53):
gonna work for the mom.
Amanda Gorman (19:56):
Everyone's individualized. You know this is
such great information thatyou're providing and I hope that
it's it's sharing with the momsand moms to be who are listening
how much information there is toknow and learn. And, and
certainly empowering moms to notto hesitate to reach out for
(20:17):
help with consultants early. Youknow what something that I know
you do with us at NestCollaborative is really
emphasize the importance of moreproactive engagement with
lactation consultants, notwaiting until there's a big
problem, or you have aninfection, or babies lost
weight. That that there's somuch to learn and know and mom
(20:40):
shouldn't be expected to learnit all from a book or learn it
all at once in the hospital.
That that really engaging andgetting guidance throughout the
entire journey is so helpful. Sothank you. It's been really
interesting, everything thatyou've shared so far, and I
still actually have a ton ofquestions to ask you. We are
going to take a very quickbreak, and we'll be back with
(21:02):
Oneida in just a minute. So staywith us.
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Welcome back mamas and mamas tobe. It's Amanda and I am here
(22:11):
with IBCLC Oneida Segura,talking about breastfeeding
versus formula feeding and howmoms can make the best decisions
for themselves and their littleones. Oneida I know that
breastfeeding can be very hardand very emotional for the new
mom. I have so many friends whosay it was probably the toughest
part of those first few monthswith their little one. So when
(22:32):
should a mom reach out for helpif they're struggling both
physically and emotionally.
Oneida Segura (22:38):
Ideally, mom will have their support system set up
before she deliver. So ideally,if she had been [unknown] can
help a lot because now she knowswhat to do. And she knows who to
reach when there a problemarise. So as soon as the mom
(23:00):
have a problem, and I get theseevery day consulting with a mom,
and we ask how is the latch andthe mom said the latch is good.
How are your nipples? My nipplesare sore, crack, and bleeding. I
like the latch is not good. Nothave a good latch if you having
(23:25):
such problems. And how long haveyou been having these problems
for three weeks for one monthfor two months? And I call them
that they are [unknown]. How canyou have this problem for so
long before you reach now forhelp. So moms should be reaching
out for help before they havethe baby. You build a support
(23:48):
system. And i- immediately afterthese babies born and she's
having problems when I doprenatal education, I tell mums,
you know, you might not be ableto retain everything we're
talking about in this class. Butat least I want you to make an
effort to remember one thingfrom our conversation.
(24:12):
Breastfeeding should not hurt.
And pain is your guide thatthere's a problem that need to
be solved immediately. And I didit myself with my first baby. I
have my baby on my breast and hehurts. I was seeing the stars.
And I said okay, it's fine. Assoon as my baby's eating, I'm
okay I can tolerate the pain.
(24:37):
That's fine. I didn't know thatwhen he hurts, maybe it's not
eating and problems startarising because now the baby's
hungry all the time. And now youhave these babies crying all the
time of hunger and your nipplesare getting more sore, and
crack, and bleeding, and fallingoff. Terrible things to happen.
(25:00):
So moms need to understand thatbreastfeeding should be pleasant
is is an enjoyable thing toshare with you baby. You're
sharing a meal, you are bondingwith your baby, and you should
not be in pain. So pain is[unknown]. If you hurts, you
need to find help immediately.
Wow, boy, all the problems thatwill come after.
Amanda Gorman (25:26):
Absolutely. I know a lot of moms who really
beat themselves up when they dohave to supplement for one
reason or another, or even justswitch entirely to something
other than their own milk. Whydo you think, you know, formula
has this bad reputation?
Oneida Segura (25:46):
Well I don't think formula have a bad
reputation. Breast breast milkis breast milk is best. And
formula is an artificial, nope,this is a supplement. But again,
it's the choice of the mothershow the baby's going to be fed.
(26:06):
If baby need to be supplemented,ideally, mommy can supplement
with their own milk, she canpump, and provide that nutrition
for the baby. But if thatdoesn't work for the mom, the
best thing after breastfeeding,after breast milk, then it will
be formula. So the mother cannotbreastfeed for one reason or the
(26:32):
other, then the choice will be adonor milk that might not be
feasible. And then formula. ButI don't think it's because they
have a bad reputation it'sbecause formula can't provide
the nutrition that the babyneeds. And there's no doubt
(26:54):
about it. But breast milkprovides the immunity, the
protection, the energy. Breastmilk change with time to adapt
to the baby's nutritional needs,breast milk change flavors,
depending on what mommy's eatingso it stimulate not just not
(27:19):
just not providing the nutritionbut also stimulating the other
senses. Babies can have betterspeech, because they use all the
muscles in their mouth to tobreastfeed so babies are more
intelligent when they are fedwith breast milk because it has
(27:41):
certain enzymes and proteins andnutrients that work directly in
a human brain that formulacannot do that. So is the
benefits of breast milk. Thatformula is not comparable. But
in the nutrition part, if themom cannot have breast milk then
(28:03):
formula is a substitute.
Amanda Gorman (28:06):
Wonderful. Thank you. You know, just to wrap up,
I'd love to get your three toptips for any mom who has had it
up to here with breastfeeding.
What would you tell her?
Oneida Segura (28:21):
Um, I will ask what what do you want to do?
Breastfeeding is more also thanjust nutrition. There's more
there's they might not have awhole milk supply. But they can
still put that baby at thebreast and enjoy the pleasure of
feeding her baby, even if thebaby might need to be
(28:42):
supplemented after. So dependson what the mommy's goals are. I
will tell them enjoy yourbreastfeeding journey in any way
that you can. If it'sexclusively breastfeeding, or if
it's partially breastfeeding,whatever works for you. When I'm
(29:03):
consulting a mom and she'scrying, and she's not sleeping,
and she's miserable. I saidbreastfeeding is not working for
you. So you really need to enjoyyour baby. And I asked the
mother what is the mostimportant thing at this moment.
(29:26):
And they are like, that I wantto breastfeed exclusively. And I
say no. The most important thingis that you are healthy to take
care of your baby, and your babyis healthy. And how you feed the
baby will become in a secondplace. So let's take care of you
(29:47):
because you're crying, you'renot sleeping, you're not eating,
you're not taking care ofyourself. And if you get sick,
then you're not gonna be able totake care of your baby. So let's
take the nutrition and thefeeding part and put it aside.
And now let's concentrate on youand your baby to be able to
(30:09):
enjoy this time together to beable to remember, when your baby
was two weeks old, when yourbaby was a month old, how you
enjoy those moments. And ifbreastfeeding in this case is
interfering with that joy, weneed to find alternatives, and
(30:29):
give yourself permission thatis, okay, you're breast feeding
for some work for you and yourbaby, you might work for another
baby when you have another one.
But let's put in perspective,what is more important than your
family than just breastfeedingis not all or nothing. So when
(30:51):
moms relax, when the mom knowthat, she can do all the things,
that's really my work better forthe mom. Because now she's
taking the pressure that she'sputting on herself. And maybe
some of the problems is becauseof the stress that she needs.
(31:12):
She's not sleeping, she's noteating, she's, you know,
mentally, if we don't take careof also the mental health with a
physical health, and thenthey're going to be also
misbalanced there. So we need topreserve mom emotional state,
and be able to take care of herbaby, and not just concentrate
(31:38):
on the breastfeeding part.
Amanda Gorman (31:43):
Absolutely. And such an important point in
preserving mom's mental healthbecause plenty of moms do
struggle with that postpartum.
So thank you for bringing thatto the table. This really has
been an interestingconversation. And I think you've
helped debunk some informationabout breast versus formula
feeding. But I know you've alsoprobably put some of our
(32:06):
listeners minds at ease. So Iknow that as mothers we have
this pressure to get it rightall the time and do what we
think is best and breastfeedingis certainly one of those parts
of being a mom that can beincredibly daunting mentally. So
thanks for clearing the air andgiving mom's all some breathing
space. We loved having youOneida so thank you and in
(32:29):
addition to being an IBCLC withNest Collaborative, Oneida is
also a native Spanish speaker,which is such a comfort to our
Spanish and Latina mommies. Howcan our listeners reach you if
they're looking for help?
Oneida Segura (32:46):
At Nest Collaborative.
Amanda Gorman (32:48):
Yes, please do.
We love having you on our teamat Nest Collaborative. You've
been such a wonderful gift. Sothank you so much for coming on
today's show.
Oneida Segura (32:58):
Thank you for inviting me.
Amanda Gorman (32:59):
Of course. Well, mamas and mamas to be that is
today's show. As always, we'rehere to give you all the support
that you need to make sure thatyour breastfeeding journey is a
success. If you have a topicthat you'd like talked about, we
are all ears so send us amessage on Instagram or Facebook
@breastfeedingunplugged, orvisit our website at
Breastfeedingunplugged.com. It'sbeen awesome sharing this time
(33:22):
with you. Until next week. It'sme Amanda saying boo bye.
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