March 25, 2021 • 31 mins
The first few weeks with a new baby are so precious - and also SO DARN HARD. For mom, it’s a time of healing as well as a whole new beginning. Life becomes about getting to know rhythms, establishing routines, and building a relationship with someone who has lived inside of you for a whole nine months. The “fourth trimester”, as we call it, is one of extremes - complete exhaustion matched only by utter adoration for this new tiny human being that has now completely taken over your life.
But then, for so many mommas, that precious “getting to know you” time is cut suddenly short. In the U.S., while some private companies and a few - make that six - individual states do grant parents some kind of leave package, 50% of moms surveyed find themselves going back to the office far earlier than they are ready.
Couple that with 62% of mothers in the workforce with children under the age of three, and you can see that the potential influence of the workplace environment on breastfeeding initiation and duration is substantial.
So that’s what we are going to talk a little bit about today.
My guest for this week’s podcast is Debi Yadegari, Founder and CEO of Villyge, an employer-paid benefit that connects employees one-on-one with career coaches, parenting experts, and healthcare specialists. Villyge also works with employers to shape corporate culture and create parent-friendly workplaces that encourage retention, expand the talent pool and increase diversity, equity, and inclusion.
We hope you enjoy this week's show!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amanda Gorman (00:00):
[Intro] Breastfeeding Unplugged.
Welcome. Welcome. Welcome mamasand mamas-to-be. A podcast
dedicated to helping momsnavigate their way through the
tricky world of breastfeeding.
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
(00:22):
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
Hello mamas and mamas-to-be.
It's Amanda from NestCollaborative here and I am
thrilled to have you with ustoday for another episode of
Breastfeeding Unplugged. Thefirst few weeks with a new baby
are so precious, and also sodarn hard. For Mom, it's a time
of healing as well as a wholenew beginning. Life becomes
(00:46):
about getting to know rhythms,establishing routines and
building a relationship withsomeone who has lived inside of
you for a whole nine months.
This fourth trimester as we callit is really one of extremes;
complete exhaustion matched onlyby utter adoration for this tiny
human being that has nowcompletely taken over your life.
(01:11):
But then for so many mama's thatprecious getting-to-know-you
time is cut suddenly short. Solet's paint a bit of a picture
on this. According to the PewResearch Center, almost half of
two-parent families in the USnow include two full time
working parents. The Journal ofHuman Lactation reports that on
(01:32):
average, mothers working fulltime in the US returned to work
at 10 weeks postpartum. And thenlet's not forget research from
the OECD, which points thefinger at the US for being the
only nation of 40 otherdeveloped countries in the world
with no paid maternity leave. Inthe US, while some private
(01:56):
companies and a few (make thatsix) individual states do grant
parents some kind of leavepackage 50% of moms surveyed
find themselves going back tothe office far earlier than they
are actually ready. Couple thatwith 62% of mothers in the
workforce with children underthe age of three and you can see
(02:19):
that the potential influence ofthe workplace environment on
breastfeeding initiation andduration is substantial. My
guest for this week's podcast isDebi Yadegari, founder and CEO
of Villyge. An employer paidbenefit that connects employees
one on one with career coaches,parenting experts and healthcare
(02:40):
specialists. Villyge also workswith employers to shape
corporate culture and createparent friendly workplaces that
encourage retention, expand thetalent pool and increase
diversity, equity and inclusion.
Debi, welcome to the show. We'reso thrilled to have you.
Debi Yadegari (02:58):
Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here,
Amanda.
Amanda Gorman (03:02):
Oh, well, we're very happy to have you. So
before we kick off, I'd justlove to hear a little bit about
how you started Villyge. It'sreally such an amazing resource
that moms and moms-to-be reallyneed to know about.
Debi Yadegari (03:14):
Thanks. So I started Villyge out of my own
experience. Before I beganVillyge and before I entered
parenthood, I was in Big Law. Mylast job was at an international
investment bank. I found myselfpregnant and it was like this
(03:36):
elephant in the room that justwasn't addressed. Even far worse
than that, I was told at onepoint before I announced my
pregnancy that if I was ever tobecome pregnant, I would end up
killing my career at that placeof employment. I couldn't
believe it. The backstory wassomebody in our department, a
(03:58):
male, he had been trying toconceive with his wife and had
been using the communityprinter. And somebody stumbled
upon all of these articles. Andit was just assumed that they
were my articles. So somebodycame into my office one day and
was like, haha, I have to tellyou a funny joke. You know,
Kevin is expecting but I thoughtit was you. And then she just
(04:20):
went on and on and on anotherlawyer within the legal
departments about a femalelawyer about how if that had
been me, I would have beenkilling my career, etc, etc. She
went on and on. I announced mypregnancy the next week. So then
it carried on that entire timeas just kind of like the
(04:41):
elephant in the room until Iwent out on leave. And I have
five children, but my oldest is15. So I was pregnant in 2004,
which predated the AffordableCare Act, which was the first
piece of legislation to givewomen the federal right to take
breaks to address theirlactation needs within the
(05:03):
office. So I didn't have thoserights. And so I went out on
leave, it came time to comeback, I had struggled and
struggled and struggled tobreastfeed. And when I returned
to work, there was no supportfor me as a breastfeeding mom.
And there was also no supportfor me as a working parent. So
(05:23):
six months later, I ended upactually walking away. No
surprise there, given that 43%of all moms and 33% of all dads
will end up changing theiremployer post baby. So I went on
to you know, live the happyhomemaker life for a couple of
years, I had four kids withinfive years. But it always
(05:44):
weighed on me that there was atremendous brain drain. And that
I never saw myself as a stay athome mom, I always saw myself as
a working mom. And there wasthis disassociation between what
working mothers needed to besuccessful at home and in the
office and what employers werewilling to offer. And that's
where I knew Villyge, I had todo something, I had to create a
(06:06):
solution. And that's whereVillyge came in. So Villyge
comes in, to close that gap, andto offer breastfeeding mothers
support in the office as well asall working parents. So as you
stated before, we offerone-on-one coaching for the
employees. But we also workclosely with the employers to
create parent-friendlyworkplaces that encourage
(06:27):
productivity and motivation andjust create a place that working
parents want to be long term andwhere they will have an upward
career trajectory and not havesomebody telling them that
they're going to be killingtheir career, if they have a
kid, you know, in the backgroundof Zoom these days, so that
that's the backstory.
Amanda Gorman (06:46):
No, that's fantastic, and such an
invaluable resource. So thankyou, for bringing Villyge to the
table for for all of usfamilies. I'd love to start with
a question, you know, and divein really, to the whole topic
today. Because you know, one ofthe first things a new mom
really needs to start thinkingabout is making a plan with her
(07:10):
employer, really before she evenstarts maternity leave. So tell
us about what moms today shouldbe doing when they are working
and find out they're expecting.
Debi Yadegari (07:21):
Yeah. First off, know your benefits. You know,
even long before you announced,if you want, you can poke around
perhaps on your intranet or evencheck the employee handbook and
know what your rights are. Andyou know, not just your legal
rights, but your rights as anemployee, what you're entitled
to, as part of thatorganization. Some offices will
(07:47):
offer you 12 paid weeks, somewill offer you the opportunity
to take an extra three monthsunpaid, some offices will be
unable to provide paid leave asyou started out with your intro.
So know your benefits, so youcan plan both financially and
mentally and just get ready forwhat to expect. Next, once
(08:08):
you've already disclosed, thatyou're pregnant, within the
office, and as time progresses,you want to start to think about
that transition plan. It's awonderful opportunity to show
everybody what you've beenworking on, right. Usually like
(08:29):
as employees, we always getupset, we're like, nobody
recognizes what we're doing. Youknow, we don't have the
opportunity to toot our own hornand say, hey, look, you know, my
hand is in 52 cookie jars. Butlike, as somebody going out on
leave, this is your opportunityto put all of those kudos in
your transition plan. So that weeverybody in your team knows how
(08:49):
many matters you've been workingon, how vital and essential you
are to that team. And inessence, it's not just a plan or
a pathway for how they willcarry on in your absence. But it
also becomes a marketing toolfor your own career. So it's
your opportunity to make surethat everybody knows that you
(09:11):
are a necessary part of thatteam. And along with that, you
should use it as an opportunityto connect with your manager,
your boss or your supervisor,and ask for a review. You want
to make sure that you are ongood footing with your superiors
before you go out. A lot of thelitigation that we see comes
from, you know, issues thatweren't addressed and were just
(09:35):
lingering there. And maybe themanager, the supervisor, wasn't
quite sure how to bring it upbecause you know, somebody is
pregnant and you know, everybodyknows that you can't fire
someone who's pregnant, thensomeone comes back from leave
and then they waited a littlebit of time and then you know
fast forward and we're in adiscrimination lawsuit. That's
no fun for anybody. And sooften, all of that could have
(09:56):
been avoided by just having aconversation upfront and we tell
managers this too. It's alwaysgood to have a review, you know,
at least three months or evenfurther in advance of somebody's
departure on leave. Um,something else to think about
communication plan, that's alsosomething that's often not
addressed is, do you want to bein touch with your office? Or do
(10:18):
you want to go on blackout, youcan absolutely tell everybody
I'm checking out, this is mybonding time with baby. And that
is your right, your prerogative.
But some employees want to, youknow, stay in touch, stay in
contact, they might want toconnect by Zoom with even though
for team meetings or for thequarterly update, and have that
(10:38):
conversation. You set the tonewith your employer, and make
sure that it's on your terms.
And don't feel like you have todo anything during that time
that you don't want to. But justmake sure that there's open
communication, and then all ofthat will help transit will help
(10:59):
you to transition out, and thenalso back successfully. So you
can also talk about, at thattime before you go back, how do
you want to transition back, youknow, some of what we suggest is
to consider taking your last twoweeks of leave as a part time
employee, you know, so that wayyou have four weeks working part
(11:21):
time, rather than, you know,just going from two weeks home
to back into the office fulltime, you know, to the extent
that you know your, you know,approximate return date, you can
start to give your employer aheads up, you know, think about
coming back on a Wednesday,especially if you're a pumping
mom, you know, that's going tobe a big change, you know, don't
(11:42):
go back on a Monday, that'sgoing to be too much brain
drain, you know, so, sostaggered. And even if it's not
your final two weeks of leave,that are being staggered, maybe
you can take just a week, or acouple of days to transition,
you know, even if you're goingto build up a little bit. So
plan, you know, you can start toplan those things out. But also
recognize that your life isabout to take a 180 degree turn,
(12:04):
detour, and everything's up inthe air. And so just make sure
that everybody in your teamknows that, hey, this is what I
think I want. This is, you knowwhat I think my plan is going to
look like on leave, butrecognize that it's subject to
change. But beforehand, set yourteam up for success, and set
(12:24):
yourself up to look like a rockstar by showing everybody, you
know, everything that you'vedone up until that time.
Amanda Gorman (12:29):
Oh, my gosh, these are all such amazing
suggestions. Clearly, you reallyare the expert on this field and
I love it. I think this is sohelpful for our moms out there
to hear. Are there any laws orrules that women should
familiarize themselves? Youspoke a little bit about knowing
your benefits at work, but whatlegally should they know about
(12:53):
what their company should befollowing?
Debi Yadegari (12:55):
Yeah, well, when it comes to breastfeeding, you
have there are federal laws,state laws, and even local laws.
And some of the local laws getinto minutiae of how lactation
accommodation requests are evensupposed to be handled. For
instance, in San Francisco, ifsomebody comes in the office and
says, "Hey, you know, I'm goingto need to use the lactation
room" or mother's room orwhatever they call it there then
(13:17):
by law, that employer needs todetail how that request was
handled, and keep it on file forthree years. So I mean, the laws
in some parts of our country gointo tiny little details that
employee doesn't necessarilyneed to worry about. You don't
need to go look up the statuteand know the ins and outs of
everything. But do know thatunder federal law, you have a
(13:40):
right to take as many breaks asare needed throughout the
workday to attend to yourlactation needs. This isn't
something that needs to bescheduled in advance or cleared
in advance, because thelegislators recognize that, you
know, biology is coming to playhere, you know, you can't, you
(14:00):
might not necessarily be able towait until the end of the
meeting. You don't want tocompromise your milk supply by
delaying the time that you needto express your milk. So the law
is on your side there. Employershave to provide you with a place
that is safe and secure and thatis free from intrusion. And it
(14:21):
cannot be a bathroom. So youknow, unfortunately, even in
2021 we're still hearing storiesabout employers saying "Oh,
great, we've got this awesomeexecutive bathroom, you know,
and here's the key." No good.
Like, if there's a toilet there,you know, nobody wants to make
their breakfast there; nobodywants to make their baby's food
there. No bathrooms. So that'sthe very basics. Certain states
will give extra rights. Forinstance, if you're in Illinois,
(14:45):
those breastfeeding brakes orlactation pumping brakes, must
be paid. You know, that's anexception to the rule. So
certain states have differentofferings or different
entitlements that other statesdon't have. If you're in New
York City, your lactation spaceneeds to be in close proximity
(15:05):
to running water and have accessto refrigeration. But not
everywhere, not all momsthroughout the country are going
to be entitled to those samebenefits. So there are some
websites that you can check out.
You can just google what are therights there, a great website is
usbreastfeeding.org. Or you cango to ncsl.org, which stands for
(15:33):
National Conference of StateLegislators, but just to make it
simple, just Google, you know,state breastfeeding laws. And
inevitably, you're going to comeup with something to see if
you're entitled to more, but atthe very, very minimum, know
that you have an absolute rightto pump in the office. And
(15:53):
nobody can take that away fromyou. And nobody can discriminate
against you for that, right.
Amanda Gorman (15:59):
That's so important. And I think it's
really important to note becausewe, we see this at Nest
Collaborative all the time,women's bodies are different,
and one woman might need to pumpevery two hours, and one is able
to maintain a supply pumpingevery three, four hours. And,
you know, employers can't reallywrite the rule based on one body
(16:23):
type. So this is fantastic. Ican imagine these conversations
can certainly be awkwardsometimes with employers,
particularly if you might have amale superior. Any thoughts? Or
tips on how to make it smoother,easier?
Debi Yadegari (16:39):
Yeah. The reason it's so awkward is in part why
Villyges is in business right,nobody wants to talk about
boobies in the office,
Amanda Gorman (16:46):
Haha, I don't think they can either right?
Debi Yadegari (16:49):
It, it's awesome.
Whenever we're going up for acompany, if there's, you know, a
guy in charge of decisionmaking, like, just let me sign
it, let me push it to the sidehere. So in that same contact,
make it simple, you know, if youif you don't have a relationship
that's open, send an email, toyour male superior and just lay
out the fact, you know. I'mgoing to be returning from leave
or after I returned from leadjust a heads up, I plan to be,
(17:11):
I'm going to continuebreastfeeding my child, what
this means is I'm going to needto take three to four breaks,
breaks every two to three hours,whatever it is, or, you know,
you can even say I'm not quitesure right now my body will, you
know, has to regulate. Rightnow, I can't predict but I
expect, um, and what are theprocedures to gain access to the
(17:33):
lactation room or, you know, forprocedures to gain access to
lactation room, we shouldactually ask HR, depending on
your place of business, if youhave given resources for smaller
company, you might have to havethat conversation with your
superior directly. You know,some small companies, they need
to make space, you know, theyneed to clear out an office or a
closet, not a bathroom, orsomething. So if you have a
(17:57):
smaller company, and you're notquite sure what the lactation
accommodations are there, um,provide some advance notice so
people can get things in orderand it'll just make it easier
for all parties. But you know,to avoid some of the
awkwardness, you can you canemail, you know, just these are
(18:17):
the facts, these are theaccommodations that you need. So
email it.
Amanda Gorman (18:24):
Great. And so obviously, the biggest focus for
these moms returning to workafter having a baby is pumping.
So in addition to if they have alactation room, or they're ready
to set one up and accommodate,what else should moms be asking
for prior to returning fromtheir employer?
Debi Yadegari (18:42):
Yeah. They should ask for a copy of lactation
accommodation policy. In theoffice if they don't already
have a copy of it. You know, itshould be in the employee
handbook. They should just knowwhat the company says about the
policy. Maybe there are specificrequirements on scheduling the
room in advance. You know, ofcourse, you have the rights to,
(19:08):
you know, to take those breaksand to attend to your body's
needs at any time. But we alsohave to recognize, you know,
there could be fourbreastfeeding moms in the office
at the same time. So how are wegoing to play nicely and share
the space? You know, how are yougoing to work out those details.
If your office doesn't alreadyhave one and they and it's a
bigger company think aboutrequesting a hospital grade
(19:30):
breast pump. Companies can rentthese for, you know, nominal
pricing, you know, less thanwhat they spend on coffee
probably in a month. You know,Villyge provides these to
companies. They allow a mom topump more milk in less time
which becomes a win-win becausenobody likes to take lactation
(19:51):
breaks and companies don't likeit when their employer employees
are on break either. So lessbreaks more work. Oftentimes
they're willing to foot thebill. What else do you need to
know? That's differentcompanies. You just have to know
your policies, how to access theroom. And you know, you can
always request for the pump.
That's great.
Amanda Gorman (20:13):
Oh, awesome. This is so helpful and so
informative. I know we have aton more to talk about. We're
going to pause for a quick breakand be back with Debi in just a
few minutes. So stay tuned.
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(21:24):
Hi mamas, we are back with DebiYadegari, founder and CEO of
Villyge. Before the break, wetalked a bit about creating a
plan as a breastfeeding mom andgoing back to work. Now I'd like
to switch gears a bit and talkabout what moms can do to make
pumping and storing their milkat work a little easier. Debbie,
(21:44):
we know that prep really needsto start at home before mom
heads back to work. What shouldour listeners be doing.
Debi Yadegari (21:53):
So first off, you want to start to create your
stash well before your return towork. So early on in your leave,
you know, every lactationconsultants going to give you
her own, his or her own opinion.
But you know, after your milkcomes in, and it's regulated, I
always recommend to get in thehabit of pumping one extra
(22:14):
bottle in the morning. Simplybecause of circadian rhythms,
it's easier to produce more milkin the morning. And so just get
in the habit of creating onelittle freezer bag that you can
give to your caregiver for whenyou do go back to work. And it
will have, it will allow you tohave peace of mind if you have a
little bit of a stash and you'renot working to create Monday's
(22:35):
milk for Tuesday, you know ifyou're one day further along, so
that will provide some comfort.
Number two, start thinking aboutyour caregiver, right. It's not
enough just to find a babysitteror a daycare or a nanny, but
start to educate them on what itis like to care for a
(22:58):
breastfeeding baby. Educate themon upright feeding. The last
thing that you want is themtearing through that milk stash
that you've worked so hard tocreate. Day one or day two, we
hear that so often from workingmoms that they're devastated
that their daycare is callingthem and telling them that
(23:20):
they're they've run out of milk,that the baby is hungry that
they're going to need to turn toformula. Dig in, find out how
much your daycare center or yournanny knows about breastfeeding
babies. And if it's a daycarecenter, find out about their
policies, one daycare centerthat somebody that we're working
with used, they had a policy, soif baby didn't finish the milk,
(23:46):
it would have to be discardedwithin 15 minutes. For, you
know, a breastfed baby this isnot the same as a bottle of
formula, you know, and that milkto get thrown out you know to
give baby a time clock, I mean,it was awful. So we encourage
the mom to save her milk in oneounce increments. So that way an
(24:08):
entire four ounce bottle wouldnot be wasted. But it was just
one ounce here and one ounchthere and it was more work for
the daycare. You know, obviouslyto prepare, you know, those
little extra increments, but itwas a way to preserve the milk
stash. So save the milk, likeeverything is all about saving
the milk. Other things toprepare, before you go back to
(24:31):
work make sure, not the nightbefore but you know when you're
well rested, you know, at sometime a few days before and
double check it again, pack yourbag of things that you're going
to need. Make sure that you'rethinking about what outfit
you're going to wear on yourfirst day back. Have thrown in
some Ziploc bags to bring homethe dirty flanges every night or
(24:54):
if you prefer to cleaneverything in the office if the
lactation room is set up so youcan leave your stuff out to dry
overnight. If you feelcomfortable with that, then
think about bringing in thebrush and the soap and anything
that you're going to need toclean your bottles there. Ah, if
you do have access to a hospitalgrade breast pump in the office,
(25:15):
bring an extra set of bottlesand flanges to keep there. So
that way in the event that youbring it home one night, you
have an extra set there.
Luckily, a lot of the companiesthat we work with through
Villyge, they utilize ourhospital grade breast pumps, and
they'll keep it extra hygenickits on hand for moms in the
event that they do forget themor lose a part. If your company
(25:38):
doesn't provide access to such athing, then definitely make sure
that you have an extra set younever want to find yourself at
work you know missing a pumppart. Think about your storage
and your commute and how you'regoing to be bringing your milk
to and from the office, is it,do you prefer to carry it back
(25:58):
and forth in bags that thenyou're immediately going to put
in the freezer? Or do you preferto keep it in the bottle that
will then be used the next daywith your daycare provider, you
know, so think about what worksbest for you. And those are
(26:18):
things that you're not going tobe able to plan if you're
listening to this podcast whilepregnant. It's after you get
into a routine and know howyou're interacting with your
pump, with your body with youknow, everyone has a preference
for how they like to store theirmilk. You know, what apparatus
they like, whether it's inbottles or bags, I mean, for me,
I was all about the bag and Ihad a waffle box, I would put
(26:44):
the milk on the waffle box sothat way it would freeze
perfectly flat. And then I couldstack them in a little like box
that I had, you know, everyonefigures out their own
organizational system, just makesure to create something that
works for you. And along thoselines, when you're thinking
about organizing your milk forreturn to work, even if you have
(27:05):
a daycare center that is not youknow, crazy, and going to dump
the milk after 15 minutes, it'salways wise to have like snack
increments, or you know thelittle like, half notches. So
you know, have the four ouncesready to go for full bottles,
but also have some two ouncesand one ounces frozen in case
you get stuck at work. And youknow, you just want to give baby
(27:28):
a little bit snack. But youdon't want to allow baby to have
a full bottle because you wantto be able to empty your breasts
when you come home and not haveto pump again when you get home.
So planning is what's key whenyou go back to work.
Amanda Gorman (27:44):
So good and so helpful. So what about wardrobe?
What are your favorite musthaves for moms who are pumping
at work?
Debi Yadegari (27:55):
Buttons! Absolutely buttons. No dresses
like, you know, no zip updresses in the back, that's
going to be a nightmare. Youdon't want to be in a situation
where you feel like you have toget a half naked to pump in the
office. So buttons are great,you absolutely want to think
about your bra. Make sure thatyou also choose materials that
(28:19):
are patient with leaks anddrips, you know, you never want
to have like a white silkblouse. That's going to show
milk stains very quickly. Youknow, because the the way we
pump at home might be in a robeor half naked. In the office, we
tend to be like half dressed andour clothes are still there. And
inevitably, when we're takingout that flange like a milk drip
(28:40):
or two are gonna go down. Socolors are great for hiding
things. But easy access is whatyou want to go for. And also
think about, you know, your bra.
There are hands free pumpingbras that double as a bra and a
pumping bra out there on themarket. You know other other
women prefer just to strip down,put on the hands free pumping
(29:03):
bra, and go for it that way. Soagain, every mom is different,
but comfort and easy access. Andyou know, make sure to check
your buttons that when you exitthe room, too many stories there
too.
Amanda Gorman (29:17):
That is the best tip and on that I just want to
let you know that this has beenextremely helpful for I know all
of our moms but also for mebecause I know our team at Nest
Collaborative is working with alot of working moms. So these
tips are gonna go straight backto them as well. So thank you, I
know that going back to workmyself is definitely a hard
(29:38):
transition, both physically andmentally. I think that this
really helped clear up a lot ofconfusion and it's given our
listeners a ton of great adviceto at least make this return and
the pumping and feeding aspectof it, you know a little bit
easier. So thank you.
Debi Yadegari (29:53):
My pleasure.
Thank you, Amanda.
Amanda Gorman (29:55):
No problem. If our listeners do want to get in
touch with you or learn moreabout Villyge, what is the best
way to do that?
Debi Yadegari (30:03):
You can check us out on all the social platforms.
Everywhere our handle is"villyge" that spelled
V-I-L-L-Y-G-E.
Amanda Gorman (30:13):
Awesome. Thank you again so much. So mamas and
mamas-to-be that is our show fortoday. As always, we do want to
hear from you. So please do dropus a line on our website at
www.breastfeedingunplugged.comor send us a message on Facebook
or Instagram at BreastfeedingUnplugged. And until next time,
(30:33):
I want to wish you all the beston your breastfeeding journey
and we look forward to spendingsome time with you next week.
Boo bye. [Outro] BreastfeedingUnplugged. Breastfeeding
Unplugged.
[Intro] Breastfeeding Unplugged.
Welcome. Welcome. Welcome mamasand mamas-to-be. A podcast
dedicated to helping momsnavigate their way through the
tricky world of breastfeeding.
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
(00:22):
Breastfeeding Unplugged.
Hello mamas and mamas-to-be.
It's Amanda from NestCollaborative here and I am
thrilled to have you with ustoday for another episode of
Breastfeeding Unplugged. Thefirst few weeks with a new baby
are so precious, and also sodarn hard. For Mom, it's a time
of healing as well as a wholenew beginning. Life becomes
(00:46):
about getting to know rhythms,establishing routines and
building a relationship withsomeone who has lived inside of
you for a whole nine months.
This fourth trimester as we callit is really one of extremes;
complete exhaustion matched onlyby utter adoration for this tiny
human being that has nowcompletely taken over your life.
(01:11):
But then for so many mama's thatprecious getting-to-know-you
time is cut suddenly short. Solet's paint a bit of a picture
on this. According to the PewResearch Center, almost half of
two-parent families in the USnow include two full time
working parents. The Journal ofHuman Lactation reports that on
(01:32):
average, mothers working fulltime in the US returned to work
at 10 weeks postpartum. And thenlet's not forget research from
the OECD, which points thefinger at the US for being the
only nation of 40 otherdeveloped countries in the world
with no paid maternity leave. Inthe US, while some private
(01:56):
companies and a few (make thatsix) individual states do grant
parents some kind of leavepackage 50% of moms surveyed
find themselves going back tothe office far earlier than they
are actually ready. Couple thatwith 62% of mothers in the
workforce with children underthe age of three and you can see
(02:19):
that the potential influence ofthe workplace environment on
breastfeeding initiation andduration is substantial. My
guest for this week's podcast isDebi Yadegari, founder and CEO
of Villyge. An employer paidbenefit that connects employees
one on one with career coaches,parenting experts and healthcare
(02:40):
specialists. Villyge also workswith employers to shape
corporate culture and createparent friendly workplaces that
encourage retention, expand thetalent pool and increase
diversity, equity and inclusion.
Debi, welcome to the show. We'reso thrilled to have you.
Debi Yadegari (02:58):
Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here,
Amanda.
Amanda Gorman (03:02):
Oh, well, we're very happy to have you. So
before we kick off, I'd justlove to hear a little bit about
how you started Villyge. It'sreally such an amazing resource
that moms and moms-to-be reallyneed to know about.
Debi Yadegari (03:14):
Thanks. So I started Villyge out of my own
experience. Before I beganVillyge and before I entered
parenthood, I was in Big Law. Mylast job was at an international
investment bank. I found myselfpregnant and it was like this
(03:36):
elephant in the room that justwasn't addressed. Even far worse
than that, I was told at onepoint before I announced my
pregnancy that if I was ever tobecome pregnant, I would end up
killing my career at that placeof employment. I couldn't
believe it. The backstory wassomebody in our department, a
(03:58):
male, he had been trying toconceive with his wife and had
been using the communityprinter. And somebody stumbled
upon all of these articles. Andit was just assumed that they
were my articles. So somebodycame into my office one day and
was like, haha, I have to tellyou a funny joke. You know,
Kevin is expecting but I thoughtit was you. And then she just
(04:20):
went on and on and on anotherlawyer within the legal
departments about a femalelawyer about how if that had
been me, I would have beenkilling my career, etc, etc. She
went on and on. I announced mypregnancy the next week. So then
it carried on that entire timeas just kind of like the
(04:41):
elephant in the room until Iwent out on leave. And I have
five children, but my oldest is15. So I was pregnant in 2004,
which predated the AffordableCare Act, which was the first
piece of legislation to givewomen the federal right to take
breaks to address theirlactation needs within the
(05:03):
office. So I didn't have thoserights. And so I went out on
leave, it came time to comeback, I had struggled and
struggled and struggled tobreastfeed. And when I returned
to work, there was no supportfor me as a breastfeeding mom.
And there was also no supportfor me as a working parent. So
(05:23):
six months later, I ended upactually walking away. No
surprise there, given that 43%of all moms and 33% of all dads
will end up changing theiremployer post baby. So I went on
to you know, live the happyhomemaker life for a couple of
years, I had four kids withinfive years. But it always
(05:44):
weighed on me that there was atremendous brain drain. And that
I never saw myself as a stay athome mom, I always saw myself as
a working mom. And there wasthis disassociation between what
working mothers needed to besuccessful at home and in the
office and what employers werewilling to offer. And that's
where I knew Villyge, I had todo something, I had to create a
(06:06):
solution. And that's whereVillyge came in. So Villyge
comes in, to close that gap, andto offer breastfeeding mothers
support in the office as well asall working parents. So as you
stated before, we offerone-on-one coaching for the
employees. But we also workclosely with the employers to
create parent-friendlyworkplaces that encourage
(06:27):
productivity and motivation andjust create a place that working
parents want to be long term andwhere they will have an upward
career trajectory and not havesomebody telling them that
they're going to be killingtheir career, if they have a
kid, you know, in the backgroundof Zoom these days, so that
that's the backstory.
Amanda Gorman (06:46):
No, that's fantastic, and such an
invaluable resource. So thankyou, for bringing Villyge to the
table for for all of usfamilies. I'd love to start with
a question, you know, and divein really, to the whole topic
today. Because you know, one ofthe first things a new mom
really needs to start thinkingabout is making a plan with her
(07:10):
employer, really before she evenstarts maternity leave. So tell
us about what moms today shouldbe doing when they are working
and find out they're expecting.
Debi Yadegari (07:21):
Yeah. First off, know your benefits. You know,
even long before you announced,if you want, you can poke around
perhaps on your intranet or evencheck the employee handbook and
know what your rights are. Andyou know, not just your legal
rights, but your rights as anemployee, what you're entitled
to, as part of thatorganization. Some offices will
(07:47):
offer you 12 paid weeks, somewill offer you the opportunity
to take an extra three monthsunpaid, some offices will be
unable to provide paid leave asyou started out with your intro.
So know your benefits, so youcan plan both financially and
mentally and just get ready forwhat to expect. Next, once
(08:08):
you've already disclosed, thatyou're pregnant, within the
office, and as time progresses,you want to start to think about
that transition plan. It's awonderful opportunity to show
everybody what you've beenworking on, right. Usually like
(08:29):
as employees, we always getupset, we're like, nobody
recognizes what we're doing. Youknow, we don't have the
opportunity to toot our own hornand say, hey, look, you know, my
hand is in 52 cookie jars. Butlike, as somebody going out on
leave, this is your opportunityto put all of those kudos in
your transition plan. So that weeverybody in your team knows how
(08:49):
many matters you've been workingon, how vital and essential you
are to that team. And inessence, it's not just a plan or
a pathway for how they willcarry on in your absence. But it
also becomes a marketing toolfor your own career. So it's
your opportunity to make surethat everybody knows that you
(09:11):
are a necessary part of thatteam. And along with that, you
should use it as an opportunityto connect with your manager,
your boss or your supervisor,and ask for a review. You want
to make sure that you are ongood footing with your superiors
before you go out. A lot of thelitigation that we see comes
from, you know, issues thatweren't addressed and were just
(09:35):
lingering there. And maybe themanager, the supervisor, wasn't
quite sure how to bring it upbecause you know, somebody is
pregnant and you know, everybodyknows that you can't fire
someone who's pregnant, thensomeone comes back from leave
and then they waited a littlebit of time and then you know
fast forward and we're in adiscrimination lawsuit. That's
no fun for anybody. And sooften, all of that could have
(09:56):
been avoided by just having aconversation upfront and we tell
managers this too. It's alwaysgood to have a review, you know,
at least three months or evenfurther in advance of somebody's
departure on leave. Um,something else to think about
communication plan, that's alsosomething that's often not
addressed is, do you want to bein touch with your office? Or do
(10:18):
you want to go on blackout, youcan absolutely tell everybody
I'm checking out, this is mybonding time with baby. And that
is your right, your prerogative.
But some employees want to, youknow, stay in touch, stay in
contact, they might want toconnect by Zoom with even though
for team meetings or for thequarterly update, and have that
(10:38):
conversation. You set the tonewith your employer, and make
sure that it's on your terms.
And don't feel like you have todo anything during that time
that you don't want to. But justmake sure that there's open
communication, and then all ofthat will help transit will help
(10:59):
you to transition out, and thenalso back successfully. So you
can also talk about, at thattime before you go back, how do
you want to transition back, youknow, some of what we suggest is
to consider taking your last twoweeks of leave as a part time
employee, you know, so that wayyou have four weeks working part
(11:21):
time, rather than, you know,just going from two weeks home
to back into the office fulltime, you know, to the extent
that you know your, you know,approximate return date, you can
start to give your employer aheads up, you know, think about
coming back on a Wednesday,especially if you're a pumping
mom, you know, that's going tobe a big change, you know, don't
(11:42):
go back on a Monday, that'sgoing to be too much brain
drain, you know, so, sostaggered. And even if it's not
your final two weeks of leave,that are being staggered, maybe
you can take just a week, or acouple of days to transition,
you know, even if you're goingto build up a little bit. So
plan, you know, you can start toplan those things out. But also
recognize that your life isabout to take a 180 degree turn,
(12:04):
detour, and everything's up inthe air. And so just make sure
that everybody in your teamknows that, hey, this is what I
think I want. This is, you knowwhat I think my plan is going to
look like on leave, butrecognize that it's subject to
change. But beforehand, set yourteam up for success, and set
(12:24):
yourself up to look like a rockstar by showing everybody, you
know, everything that you'vedone up until that time.
Amanda Gorman (12:29):
Oh, my gosh, these are all such amazing
suggestions. Clearly, you reallyare the expert on this field and
I love it. I think this is sohelpful for our moms out there
to hear. Are there any laws orrules that women should
familiarize themselves? Youspoke a little bit about knowing
your benefits at work, but whatlegally should they know about
(12:53):
what their company should befollowing?
Debi Yadegari (12:55):
Yeah, well, when it comes to breastfeeding, you
have there are federal laws,state laws, and even local laws.
And some of the local laws getinto minutiae of how lactation
accommodation requests are evensupposed to be handled. For
instance, in San Francisco, ifsomebody comes in the office and
says, "Hey, you know, I'm goingto need to use the lactation
room" or mother's room orwhatever they call it there then
(13:17):
by law, that employer needs todetail how that request was
handled, and keep it on file forthree years. So I mean, the laws
in some parts of our country gointo tiny little details that
employee doesn't necessarilyneed to worry about. You don't
need to go look up the statuteand know the ins and outs of
everything. But do know thatunder federal law, you have a
(13:40):
right to take as many breaks asare needed throughout the
workday to attend to yourlactation needs. This isn't
something that needs to bescheduled in advance or cleared
in advance, because thelegislators recognize that, you
know, biology is coming to playhere, you know, you can't, you
(14:00):
might not necessarily be able towait until the end of the
meeting. You don't want tocompromise your milk supply by
delaying the time that you needto express your milk. So the law
is on your side there. Employershave to provide you with a place
that is safe and secure and thatis free from intrusion. And it
(14:21):
cannot be a bathroom. So youknow, unfortunately, even in
2021 we're still hearing storiesabout employers saying "Oh,
great, we've got this awesomeexecutive bathroom, you know,
and here's the key." No good.
Like, if there's a toilet there,you know, nobody wants to make
their breakfast there; nobodywants to make their baby's food
there. No bathrooms. So that'sthe very basics. Certain states
will give extra rights. Forinstance, if you're in Illinois,
(14:45):
those breastfeeding brakes orlactation pumping brakes, must
be paid. You know, that's anexception to the rule. So
certain states have differentofferings or different
entitlements that other statesdon't have. If you're in New
York City, your lactation spaceneeds to be in close proximity
(15:05):
to running water and have accessto refrigeration. But not
everywhere, not all momsthroughout the country are going
to be entitled to those samebenefits. So there are some
websites that you can check out.
You can just google what are therights there, a great website is
usbreastfeeding.org. Or you cango to ncsl.org, which stands for
(15:33):
National Conference of StateLegislators, but just to make it
simple, just Google, you know,state breastfeeding laws. And
inevitably, you're going to comeup with something to see if
you're entitled to more, but atthe very, very minimum, know
that you have an absolute rightto pump in the office. And
(15:53):
nobody can take that away fromyou. And nobody can discriminate
against you for that, right.
Amanda Gorman (15:59):
That's so important. And I think it's
really important to note becausewe, we see this at Nest
Collaborative all the time,women's bodies are different,
and one woman might need to pumpevery two hours, and one is able
to maintain a supply pumpingevery three, four hours. And,
you know, employers can't reallywrite the rule based on one body
(16:23):
type. So this is fantastic. Ican imagine these conversations
can certainly be awkwardsometimes with employers,
particularly if you might have amale superior. Any thoughts? Or
tips on how to make it smoother,easier?
Debi Yadegari (16:39):
Yeah. The reason it's so awkward is in part why
Villyges is in business right,nobody wants to talk about
boobies in the office,
Amanda Gorman (16:46):
Haha, I don't think they can either right?
Debi Yadegari (16:49):
It, it's awesome.
Whenever we're going up for acompany, if there's, you know, a
guy in charge of decisionmaking, like, just let me sign
it, let me push it to the sidehere. So in that same contact,
make it simple, you know, if youif you don't have a relationship
that's open, send an email, toyour male superior and just lay
out the fact, you know. I'mgoing to be returning from leave
or after I returned from leadjust a heads up, I plan to be,
(17:11):
I'm going to continuebreastfeeding my child, what
this means is I'm going to needto take three to four breaks,
breaks every two to three hours,whatever it is, or, you know,
you can even say I'm not quitesure right now my body will, you
know, has to regulate. Rightnow, I can't predict but I
expect, um, and what are theprocedures to gain access to the
(17:33):
lactation room or, you know, forprocedures to gain access to
lactation room, we shouldactually ask HR, depending on
your place of business, if youhave given resources for smaller
company, you might have to havethat conversation with your
superior directly. You know,some small companies, they need
to make space, you know, theyneed to clear out an office or a
closet, not a bathroom, orsomething. So if you have a
(17:57):
smaller company, and you're notquite sure what the lactation
accommodations are there, um,provide some advance notice so
people can get things in orderand it'll just make it easier
for all parties. But you know,to avoid some of the
awkwardness, you can you canemail, you know, just these are
(18:17):
the facts, these are theaccommodations that you need. So
email it.
Amanda Gorman (18:24):
Great. And so obviously, the biggest focus for
these moms returning to workafter having a baby is pumping.
So in addition to if they have alactation room, or they're ready
to set one up and accommodate,what else should moms be asking
for prior to returning fromtheir employer?
Debi Yadegari (18:42):
Yeah. They should ask for a copy of lactation
accommodation policy. In theoffice if they don't already
have a copy of it. You know, itshould be in the employee
handbook. They should just knowwhat the company says about the
policy. Maybe there are specificrequirements on scheduling the
room in advance. You know, ofcourse, you have the rights to,
(19:08):
you know, to take those breaksand to attend to your body's
needs at any time. But we alsohave to recognize, you know,
there could be fourbreastfeeding moms in the office
at the same time. So how are wegoing to play nicely and share
the space? You know, how are yougoing to work out those details.
If your office doesn't alreadyhave one and they and it's a
bigger company think aboutrequesting a hospital grade
(19:30):
breast pump. Companies can rentthese for, you know, nominal
pricing, you know, less thanwhat they spend on coffee
probably in a month. You know,Villyge provides these to
companies. They allow a mom topump more milk in less time
which becomes a win-win becausenobody likes to take lactation
(19:51):
breaks and companies don't likeit when their employer employees
are on break either. So lessbreaks more work. Oftentimes
they're willing to foot thebill. What else do you need to
know? That's differentcompanies. You just have to know
your policies, how to access theroom. And you know, you can
always request for the pump.
That's great.
Amanda Gorman (20:13):
Oh, awesome. This is so helpful and so
informative. I know we have aton more to talk about. We're
going to pause for a quick breakand be back with Debi in just a
few minutes. So stay tuned.
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(21:24):
Hi mamas, we are back with DebiYadegari, founder and CEO of
Villyge. Before the break, wetalked a bit about creating a
plan as a breastfeeding mom andgoing back to work. Now I'd like
to switch gears a bit and talkabout what moms can do to make
pumping and storing their milkat work a little easier. Debbie,
(21:44):
we know that prep really needsto start at home before mom
heads back to work. What shouldour listeners be doing.
Debi Yadegari (21:53):
So first off, you want to start to create your
stash well before your return towork. So early on in your leave,
you know, every lactationconsultants going to give you
her own, his or her own opinion.
But you know, after your milkcomes in, and it's regulated, I
always recommend to get in thehabit of pumping one extra
(22:14):
bottle in the morning. Simplybecause of circadian rhythms,
it's easier to produce more milkin the morning. And so just get
in the habit of creating onelittle freezer bag that you can
give to your caregiver for whenyou do go back to work. And it
will have, it will allow you tohave peace of mind if you have a
little bit of a stash and you'renot working to create Monday's
(22:35):
milk for Tuesday, you know ifyou're one day further along, so
that will provide some comfort.
Number two, start thinking aboutyour caregiver, right. It's not
enough just to find a babysitteror a daycare or a nanny, but
start to educate them on what itis like to care for a
(22:58):
breastfeeding baby. Educate themon upright feeding. The last
thing that you want is themtearing through that milk stash
that you've worked so hard tocreate. Day one or day two, we
hear that so often from workingmoms that they're devastated
that their daycare is callingthem and telling them that
(23:20):
they're they've run out of milk,that the baby is hungry that
they're going to need to turn toformula. Dig in, find out how
much your daycare center or yournanny knows about breastfeeding
babies. And if it's a daycarecenter, find out about their
policies, one daycare centerthat somebody that we're working
with used, they had a policy, soif baby didn't finish the milk,
(23:46):
it would have to be discardedwithin 15 minutes. For, you
know, a breastfed baby this isnot the same as a bottle of
formula, you know, and that milkto get thrown out you know to
give baby a time clock, I mean,it was awful. So we encourage
the mom to save her milk in oneounce increments. So that way an
(24:08):
entire four ounce bottle wouldnot be wasted. But it was just
one ounce here and one ounchthere and it was more work for
the daycare. You know, obviouslyto prepare, you know, those
little extra increments, but itwas a way to preserve the milk
stash. So save the milk, likeeverything is all about saving
the milk. Other things toprepare, before you go back to
(24:31):
work make sure, not the nightbefore but you know when you're
well rested, you know, at sometime a few days before and
double check it again, pack yourbag of things that you're going
to need. Make sure that you'rethinking about what outfit
you're going to wear on yourfirst day back. Have thrown in
some Ziploc bags to bring homethe dirty flanges every night or
(24:54):
if you prefer to cleaneverything in the office if the
lactation room is set up so youcan leave your stuff out to dry
overnight. If you feelcomfortable with that, then
think about bringing in thebrush and the soap and anything
that you're going to need toclean your bottles there. Ah, if
you do have access to a hospitalgrade breast pump in the office,
(25:15):
bring an extra set of bottlesand flanges to keep there. So
that way in the event that youbring it home one night, you
have an extra set there.
Luckily, a lot of the companiesthat we work with through
Villyge, they utilize ourhospital grade breast pumps, and
they'll keep it extra hygenickits on hand for moms in the
event that they do forget themor lose a part. If your company
(25:38):
doesn't provide access to such athing, then definitely make sure
that you have an extra set younever want to find yourself at
work you know missing a pumppart. Think about your storage
and your commute and how you'regoing to be bringing your milk
to and from the office, is it,do you prefer to carry it back
(25:58):
and forth in bags that thenyou're immediately going to put
in the freezer? Or do you preferto keep it in the bottle that
will then be used the next daywith your daycare provider, you
know, so think about what worksbest for you. And those are
(26:18):
things that you're not going tobe able to plan if you're
listening to this podcast whilepregnant. It's after you get
into a routine and know howyou're interacting with your
pump, with your body with youknow, everyone has a preference
for how they like to store theirmilk. You know, what apparatus
they like, whether it's inbottles or bags, I mean, for me,
I was all about the bag and Ihad a waffle box, I would put
(26:44):
the milk on the waffle box sothat way it would freeze
perfectly flat. And then I couldstack them in a little like box
that I had, you know, everyonefigures out their own
organizational system, just makesure to create something that
works for you. And along thoselines, when you're thinking
about organizing your milk forreturn to work, even if you have
(27:05):
a daycare center that is not youknow, crazy, and going to dump
the milk after 15 minutes, it'salways wise to have like snack
increments, or you know thelittle like, half notches. So
you know, have the four ouncesready to go for full bottles,
but also have some two ouncesand one ounces frozen in case
you get stuck at work. And youknow, you just want to give baby
(27:28):
a little bit snack. But youdon't want to allow baby to have
a full bottle because you wantto be able to empty your breasts
when you come home and not haveto pump again when you get home.
So planning is what's key whenyou go back to work.
Amanda Gorman (27:44):
So good and so helpful. So what about wardrobe?
What are your favorite musthaves for moms who are pumping
at work?
Debi Yadegari (27:55):
Buttons! Absolutely buttons. No dresses
like, you know, no zip updresses in the back, that's
going to be a nightmare. Youdon't want to be in a situation
where you feel like you have toget a half naked to pump in the
office. So buttons are great,you absolutely want to think
about your bra. Make sure thatyou also choose materials that
(28:19):
are patient with leaks anddrips, you know, you never want
to have like a white silkblouse. That's going to show
milk stains very quickly. Youknow, because the the way we
pump at home might be in a robeor half naked. In the office, we
tend to be like half dressed andour clothes are still there. And
inevitably, when we're takingout that flange like a milk drip
(28:40):
or two are gonna go down. Socolors are great for hiding
things. But easy access is whatyou want to go for. And also
think about, you know, your bra.
There are hands free pumpingbras that double as a bra and a
pumping bra out there on themarket. You know other other
women prefer just to strip down,put on the hands free pumping
(29:03):
bra, and go for it that way. Soagain, every mom is different,
but comfort and easy access. Andyou know, make sure to check
your buttons that when you exitthe room, too many stories there
too.
Amanda Gorman (29:17):
That is the best tip and on that I just want to
let you know that this has beenextremely helpful for I know all
of our moms but also for mebecause I know our team at Nest
Collaborative is working with alot of working moms. So these
tips are gonna go straight backto them as well. So thank you, I
know that going back to workmyself is definitely a hard
(29:38):
transition, both physically andmentally. I think that this
really helped clear up a lot ofconfusion and it's given our
listeners a ton of great adviceto at least make this return and
the pumping and feeding aspectof it, you know a little bit
easier. So thank you.
Debi Yadegari (29:53):
My pleasure.
Thank you, Amanda.
Amanda Gorman (29:55):
No problem. If our listeners do want to get in
touch with you or learn moreabout Villyge, what is the best
way to do that?
Debi Yadegari (30:03):
You can check us out on all the social platforms.
Everywhere our handle is"villyge" that spelled
V-I-L-L-Y-G-E.
Amanda Gorman (30:13):
Awesome. Thank you again so much. So mamas and
mamas-to-be that is our show fortoday. As always, we do want to
hear from you. So please do dropus a line on our website at
www.breastfeedingunplugged.comor send us a message on Facebook
or Instagram at BreastfeedingUnplugged. And until next time,
(30:33):
I want to wish you all the beston your breastfeeding journey
and we look forward to spendingsome time with you next week.
Boo bye. [Outro] BreastfeedingUnplugged. Breastfeeding
Unplugged.
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