April 22, 2021 • 20 mins
We all know that breastmilk is produced naturally by mommas, starting as early as pregnancy. But most of us don’t know that it actually has superpowers. From being able to help baby fight off viruses and bacteria to actually raising their IQ, giving your little one their daily doses of magic milk is a lot more beneficial than you might think.
The advantages don’t stop at baby either. Studies have shown that breastfeeding mommas lose weight faster, have less bleeding and an easier recovery postpartum, and some research even links breastfeeding to lower rates of breast and ovarian cancer later in life. So does breastfeeding really live up to the hype? Let’s find out.
With us today is Madison, Wisconsin-based IBCLC, Lori Theisen who is part of the team at Nest Collaborative. Get ready to be surprised and inspired by all the amazing things your milk can do for you and your little one!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:20):
Who would put the filter on?
Amanda Gorman (00:23):
I just had a meeting this morning.
Unknown (00:25):
And you didn't notice that.
You notice it right away. Somaybe I could Google it's a
little hard to get it off likethat. Like, I feel like is there
like a hack a virus way? Oh,shoot.
I lost like she was on me thismorning.
Yeah.
(00:48):
Hi.
Amanda Gorman (00:56):
Hello.
Unknown (00:57):
Hi, how are you?
Good. I
Amanda Gorman (01:00):
have to tell you quickly, which is. So we just
did an episode with Dr. seydel,who's the chief medical officer
of women's health USA, the powerpartner. So I'm sitting here
right before the podcast and I'mlike,
Unknown (01:15):
why is it look like a mustache?
Amanda Gorman (01:17):
I'm like, Am I like getting a dark ring like?
So we sat here troubleshootingonly to realize I had a filter
on my zoom that was giving me amustache and a goatee. And I was
like,
Unknown (01:29):
how did I get here? I was like,
I had a meeting this morning.
Like,did you see a mustache? No.
Oh my god. That's awesome.
That's really like, this is mykid. I don't know.
Amanda Gorman (01:47):
We literally delayed like 20 minutes. Try not
2010 trying to figure out how toand he was funny. He's like,
Unknown (01:54):
Oh, yeah, I see it.
Yeah, I was like, so it's like athing. And I was like to have a
good tea too. And he's like,yeah. Anyway,
Amanda Gorman (02:03):
okay, well, we have Chelsea here. Next day,
Laurie?
Unknown (02:06):
Hi. How are ya?
Lori Theisen (02:08):
Good. How are you?
Great. Great.
Amanda Gorman (02:11):
Great. Great.
Thank you so much for we're justwe're just giggling after the
whole mustache, you know,mustache gates that we were
having. Actually, we just took aquick break so that I could pump
in the bathroom. And I was like,How funny is this that I'm like
having to pump in the bathroom,which I told
her not to pump in the bathroomto pump here in the studio. But
she was worried about cameras
Unknown (02:32):
in a studio. But anyway, the irony of that we're
doing a breastfeeding podcastand that I'm pumping.
Yes, that is the irony rightthere.
Lori Theisen (02:41):
That's good. I'm glad you're pumping. But not in
a bathroom. I
Amanda Gorman (02:45):
know I did my duty. It was it wasn't like a
cubicle. It wasn't like a stall.
It was enough room. It was likeanyway, doesn't matter. Thank
you so much. Where I'm like,I've been telling him how to how
excited I am about this episode.
In particular, I think it'sgonna be awesome. So just a
quick kind of recap on whatwe've already talked about on
(03:05):
the phone and over email, whichis just this is supposed to be
just a really casual fun chatbetween girlfriends like that
feel and vibe of like, you know,just that casual, informative,
but not scary. And this topicspecifically is not scary at
all, but just wanted to keep itkind of light and fun. I know
(03:25):
that you're going to just bringso much information. And I'm so
psyched about that. So I thinkit's going to be fantastic. If
at any point you stumble feellike you didn't answer something
the way in which you wanted to,you can just say hey, can we
stop and redo that? BecauseOkay, it's not live. So don't
feel like, you know, if at anypoint, you're like, Oh, I messed
that up, or who knows what it'sfine to just say, Hey, can we
(03:46):
stop? Don't worry about it.
Yeah, I'm midway through,Amanda, we'll talk about taking
a short break. And that's goingto be when we edit in a
commercial. So when we take ashort break, she's just going to
pause for like, two or threeseconds, you'll hear her pause,
and then we'll just jump rightback in. Okay, um, and that's
really it that just, you know,keep energy high. You know,
(04:08):
again, just we want it to be funand informative. So just keep
your energy up. And I wastelling me I know yell at Amanda
to keep her energy up,especially when we do four of
these in a row.
Unknown (04:22):
coffee, coffee, coffee.
Yeah, yeah, it gets a bit much.
But thank you so much, again,for joining us today and taking
time out. We're thrilled andyeah, we're excited to get
started. Let me just see.
Amanda Gorman (04:32):
Yes. And this is like literally Laurie came like
started and it was like awhirlwind. So she and I actually
haven't even really had anyquality time together. So it's
true. Yes, sir. First qualitytime together, which is
terribly sad. Phil's gonna comein and just start this camera.
Okay, um, in a second and thenwe'll and then we'll get started
in just a second.
(04:52):
Um, and I know I know the answerthis but it's Tyson. Right.
Lori Theisen (04:56):
Yeah. Tyson like Mike Tyson. Like
Unknown (05:00):
But with two years, what two years,
Amanda Gorman (05:03):
although I guess it's on his ear
Lori Theisen (05:08):
with soft teeth.
Unknown (05:09):
I know.
Amanda Gorman (05:12):
Sorry. It's a lot of time in a small room.
Unknown (05:15):
I'm sure it is.
Amanda Gorman (05:18):
Yeah. It's like the only time I can get out of
the house.
Lori Theisen (05:25):
But to keep that energy up and focus, whoo, yeah.
Amanda Gorman (05:30):
And it's our only time together Chelsea we've met
a pandemic the whole time. Andnow she's my neighbor and never
really gets it.
Unknown (05:37):
We've been in quarantine for months.
And yes, yes. How did that no.
I mean, she's here so when shecame out, it's a little girl Her
name is Imogen Heap three weeksold. She's,
Amanda Gorman (05:56):
she's really beautiful. Maybe?
Unknown (05:58):
Even Julie, so pretty.
I love that name. Yeah, we callher me for sure. And she's got a
big brother named Arthur who'stoo and he's a lot of fun. And
he likes to help bomb and do allthe things and he's really cute.
He's like me. Anybody can saythe whole thing? Yeah, no, it's
(06:23):
going. It's going really well.
But this is like the first timeI've left the house in three
weeks effectively. Like for anyamount of time this person I've
left her so I'm like, Oh, youshould probably come here. And I
could celebrate after the poorfamily. Anyway. Okay, I'm muting
my mic now. Okay.
When you're ready.
Amanda Gorman (06:42):
All right. I'm ready.
[Intro] Hey, mamas andmamas-to-be. Welcome to another
episode of BreastfeedingUnplugged. I'm so very excited
for today's episode, becauseinstead of talking about the
whys and the hows ofbreastfeeding, we are actually
going to dive to an allimportant what. As in, what the
heck is breast milk anyway? Weall know that breast milk is
(07:04):
produced naturally by mamasstarting as early as in
pregnancy, but most of us don'tknow that it actually has
[interruption]- being able tohelp [interruption] off viruses
and bacteria, to actuallyraising their IQ, giving your
little one their daily dose ofmagic milk is a lot more
beneficial than you might think.
The advantages don't stop atbaby either. Studies have shown
(07:25):
that breastfeeding mamas loseweight faster, have less
bleeding after giving birth, andan easier recovery postpartum.
And some research even linksbreastfeeding to lower rates of
breast and ovarian cancers laterin life. So does breastfeeding
really live up to the hype?
Let's find out. With us today isMadison, Wisconsin based IBCLC
(07:48):
Laurie Tyson. After her son wasborn and admitted to the NICU,
and she experienced feedingchallenges of her own, Lori
became frustrated with the lackof consistent information
regarding breastfeeding andwanted to create change for
other families. This led her tobecome a registered nurse and an
international board certifiedlactation consultant, which we
(08:10):
are so very grateful for at NestCollaborative. Lori's worked as
a postpartum nurse and lactationconsultant in private practice,
as well as in the largestbirthing center in Wisconsin.
She's super passionate about thescience behind breast milk. And
we're really just thrilled tohave her here to talk about it.
So welcome, Lori.
Lori Theisen (08:31):
Thank you so much.
I'm so thrilled and honored tobe here.
Amanda Gorman (08:37):
We're happy to have you. So before I jump in,
I'd like to hear a little bitmore about your story. So, you
know, I know like many lactationconsultants, you really pursued
this career path based on yourown experience. So tell us more
about what happened after thebirth of your son and how you
got to where you are today.
Lori Theisen (08:54):
Yeah, so my son was born and I never took a
breastfeeding class because Ifigured it was natural and easy.
So why would I have to take yourclass? Which led to me not
knowing how to breastfeed, heended up being dehydrated with
jaundice and readmitted into theNICU because of that. And while
(09:17):
I was in the NICU, I saw severallactation consultants. And then
when we were discharged, I saweven more. And in that
experience, I just realized howimportant this education is for
families to have before theyhave their baby. And I wanted to
be a part of that team of peopleeducating and supporting and
(09:37):
helping kind of like how I hadthe help when I was in the NICU.
Amanda Gorman (09:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, we're really glad you'rehere with us today, both as an
IBCLC and as our guests on theshow. So today we're talking
about the magic of breast milk,which might seem a bit
exaggerated, but in reality, weprobably don't talk enough about
how amazing it actually is. Sowould you agree with that?
Lori Theisen (10:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
Our bodies are amazing. So Idefinitely think breast milk is
magical.
Amanda Gorman (10:09):
So let's start with the basics. What exactly is
breast milk anyway?
Lori Theisen (10:15):
You know, breast milk is white blood cells, its
living cells, it's everythingneeded to maintain a human body.
And what's important is to knowhow our immune system works.
Once we know how the immunesystem works, it's a little bit
easier to understand how breastmilk works. So when we get sick,
(10:36):
you know, our bodies, our skinis filled with viruses and
bacterias, and germs, right, andthey're in our nose, and they're
in our mouth or everywhere. Sowhen we get sick, our body meets
the virus, reads it and startsto fight it. And we'll have you
know, symptoms of that if it's acold, we'll have a runny nose,
(10:57):
you know, we'll have a sorethroat. And it's our immune
system that fights the cold orthe virus. It's our immune
system, which is all white bloodcells. And that's what breast
milk is.
Amanda Gorman (11:12):
Interesting. And so how does it exactly prevent
illness?
Lori Theisen (11:18):
You know, there's 1000s of different components
within breast milk. So it's hardto kind of decide to talk about
just a few of them, but Imanaged to come up with a few of
them. In breast milk, there'ssomething called a lactoferrin.
Lactoferrin is an antibacterial,and it eats the food that a bad
(11:43):
bacteria would need to eat tosurvive. So this lactoferrin is
in breast milk, the baby drinksit, and then the lactoferrin
goes around and just eats badbacteria all day long. Just eats
it so the baby doesn't get sick.
There's an amazing cell calledan HAMLET cell. And that stands
for Human Alpha-lactalbumin MadeLethal to Tumor cells. So this
(12:07):
really cool cell, the baby hassomething in the gut, which is
called an oleic acid. And thenin the breast milk is the Human
Alpha- lactalbumin. So thetheory is when that Human
Alpha-lacta- lactalbumin comesinto the body, it connects with
the oleic acid in the infant'sgut, and it creates this tumor
(12:31):
killing system. So that HAMLETcell just goes around and kills
tumor cells. It kills cancercells, and it protects the baby
from from birth and on.
Amanda Gorman (12:47):
That's so interesting.
Lori Theisen (12:48):
Yeah.
Amanda Gorman (12:50):
So if a mom is sick, should she refrain from
breastfeeding and just pump anddump?
Lori Theisen (12:58):
Yeah, absolutely not. No. If, if a mother is
sick, the most important thingis to breastfeed, breastfeed,
breastfeed. And there's two, twobig main ways that keep the baby
healthy. So let's pretend mom'ssick. So she gets a cold and she
has, you know, her immune systembegins to develop the antibodies
(13:21):
and those antibodies come fromthat lymph system. Those
antibodies are then transferredinto breast milk, and the baby
drinks that breast milk so thatbaby is literally protected
before the baby is eveninfected. And then the other way
is when a baby's sick. So thebaby will latch on to the breast
(13:44):
and there's this whole vacuumseal and suction where it pulls
out the breast milk and as itpulls out the breast milk, the
baby's spit goes into the nippleholes like this backwash system.
And it will go into the milkducts where the mother's body
will read the baby saliva andwill say, oh, the baby's got the
(14:08):
flu right now. And then there'sflu cells in the saliva. So then
the mother's body builds andcreates and makes the antibodies
for the flu, and then the babydrinks it. And the symptoms that
the baby has from the flu are,you know, they're not as severe
and the length of the illness iscut short because of those
antibodies.
Amanda Gorman (14:29):
Pretty amazing.
So, can different women producedifferent types of breast milk?
Lori Theisen (14:37):
Yes, absolutely.
Breast milk is never the same.
It's constantly changing. So itchanges from mom to mom. It
changes gestationally. So a babythat's born premature, the milk
will be fattier to help developand grow the brain of the baby.
(14:58):
So preterm milk is fattier.
They've done studies of twins.
So you know, baby a is alwaysnursing on the left breast and
baby b is always nursing on theright breast. The milk in the
right breast versus the leftbreast is different because it's
that, that feedback loo- loop,that feedback loop that is
(15:20):
constantly changing and made toorder for each baby.
Amanda Gorman (15:24):
Hmm. This is so interesting and very, very cool.
We don't really talk about thescience behind breast milk
enough, and we certainly don'tcelebrate how amazing it really
is. It's hard to believe that awoman's body can produce
everything a baby needs both tosurvive and thrive. I have a ton
(15:44):
of questions still to ask. Butwe're gonna take a quick pause
listeners, we will be rightback.
Thanks for hanging out with usmamas, we are back with Lori
Theisen IBCLC, our very ownMadison, Wisconsin based IBCLC
at Nest Collaborative talkingabout all the magic of breast
(16:06):
milk. So is there anything thatmoms can do to make breast milk
better in terms of itsnutrients?
Lori Theisen (16:14):
You know, breast milk is just perfect as it is.
So again, that whole immunebuilding system that breast milk
is, you know, I guess you couldbe in your baby's environment.
So if your baby's in thedaycare, and there's a you know,
there's a bunch of kids gettingthe flu, go hang out in the
(16:36):
daycare, you're going to getthat flu virus on your skin,
it's going to go into yourimmune system, and then you're
going to build those antibodiesand your baby's going to drink
it. If you're a NICU mom, hangout in the NICU a lot.
Everything that's you know, thatyour baby comes in contact with
in the NICU all the germs andbugs, you'll get that on your
skin. And when you pump to givethat milk, the antibodies for
(17:00):
that, those microbes will bethere for that baby.
Amanda Gorman (17:05):
What are your favorite foods that you
recommend for building milksupply or sustaining milk
supply?
Lori Theisen (17:12):
Yeah, favorite foods? For supply? My favorite
foods for supply would bebreastfeeding, hand expression,
pumping, maybe with the side ofherbal tea, I guess. So there's
really, there's really, youknow, there's not direct foods
(17:32):
that are going to help withsupply. We know science why
it's- science wise, it's theremoval of milk that makes your
supply and helps your supply. Sothe more you nurse, the more you
make, and some people say,remove it or lose it. And that's
going to be what's best for yoursupply.
Amanda Gorman (17:53):
Good to know.
We've certainly heard ofinstances of bodybuilders and
elite athletes now drinkingbreast milk. What do you think
of this?
Lori Theisen (18:05):
You know, I fully support it, why not? There are
three times more you know,immune building properties in
breast milk than cow's milk. Andand you know, double the
protein. It's just fantastic. Sowhy not? If it helps, baby,
sure, it could help you buildmuscles and get stronger.
Different cultures, you know,use milk for all kinds of
(18:28):
reasons and you know, werecommend it for pinkeye, it can
help for sore, cracked nipples,putting some milk on that so
sure, why not?
Amanda Gorman (18:39):
This as long as you don't take it from a baby, I
guess. Right?
Lori Theisen (18:41):
Yes. Don't take it from the baby. If it's an extra
extra supply, yes.
Amanda Gorman (18:47):
Okay, so what are the main differences between
breast milk and formula?
Lori Theisen (18:52):
You know, formula, you crack a can open and it's
the same for a three day oldbaby, as it is for a six month
old baby, as it is for an 11month old baby. Where breast
milk is constantly changing. Thebaby's body and the mother's
body are communicating back andforth. You know, it could be a
(19:15):
really hot summer day when thebaby nurses, they'll communicate
that I'm thirstier and I need tobe more hydrated, and they'll
get more you know, watery milk.
If a baby's going through agrowth spurt the body's gonna
know and build that, thatfattier milk to help that baby
grow and formula can't do that.
Amanda Gorman (19:36):
Helpful to know.
So hit us with some of yourfavorite fun facts that moms
need to know about breast milk.
Lori Theisen (19:45):
Fun facts. You know, there is one property in
milk that's called anoligosaccharide. This is a fun
fact and I like to talk about itin my prenatals. An
oligosaccharide, has nonutritive benefit. So why is it
in breast milk? Why is it there?
Why is the baby drinking it? Anoligosaccharide is this really
(20:07):
cool, I like to envision it as apuzzle piece. So it's this cool
puzzle piece the baby drinks,and as it goes down through the
mouth, esophagus, the stomach,into the intestines, it just
connects to really bad stufflike listeria, salmonella,
campylobacter, rotavirus, itconnects to all these really bad
(20:30):
things, and it comes out intobaby's poop and it is found
whole. So it prevents these badthings to connect to the gut
system to the intestines so babydoesn't get sick. So I, it's
almost like drinking handsanitizer. It's just killing
stuff along the way and grabbingonto it and right out into the
(20:51):
poop.
Amanda Gorman (20:53):
I was gonna say like a Roomba.
Lori Theisen (20:57):
Yes.
Amanda Gorman (20:59):
That I mean, that really is pretty amazing. Um,
for moms who are having troublebreastfeeding, what advice do
you have for them?
Lori Theisen (21:10):
Yeah. You know, to be kind and gentle to yourself,
because this parenting stuff ishard. And don't give up on even
your worst day. And find a BoardCertified Lactation Consultant.
Lactation Consultants have theevidence to help you and then
(21:32):
the tips and tricks to helpguide you into what your feeding
goals are. And that's reallyimportant to have somebody on
your side who can be yourcheerleader, but is really super
smart at the same time.
Amanda Gorman (21:47):
Mm hmm.
Absolutely. I mean, I know frommy experience, I had a lot of
trouble. And had I had someonelike you there, that would have
been really helpful. I couldhave learned a lot more than I
knew. Well, Lori, I am bummed tosay that that we're out of time
for today. But you know, thisconversation has been so rich in
(22:08):
information. And I know thatyou've really inspired a lot of
moms out there who are listeningwith [interrupted]. So happy
that you came today. Thank youso much.
Lori Theisen (22:19):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Amanda Gorman (22:23):
Well, if listeners do want to get in
touch with you or book a virtualconsult, where can they find
you?
Lori Theisen (22:28):
At Nest Collaborative.
Amanda Gorman (22:30):
Yes, they can.
Well, excellent. Thank you.
Thank you so much. We lovedhaving you as our guest today. I
hope you'll be back again soon.
Lori Theisen (22:38):
I would be honored. Thank you so much.
Amanda Gorman (22:40):
Of course. Well, now to you mamas and mamas to
be. Thank you for tuning in totoday's show. We hope you
learned as much as we did. Andif you have any questions or a
show topic suggestion, we reallywould love to hear it. Message
us on Instagram or Facebook@breastfeedingunplugged, or
visit us on our website atbreastfeedingunplugged.com. You
(23:01):
can give us your feedback there.
And while you're at it, ifyou're totally loving the show,
please give us a rating onwhatever podc- podcast platform
you're listening from. And itwill help us reach more mamas
all around the world. Until nextweek, it's me Amanda, wishing
you all your best on yourbreastfeeding journey. Boo bye.
[Outro] I will redo the outro
Unknown (23:26):
Did you say boo bye?
Amanda Gorman (23:28):
certainly did boo. Bye.
Lori Theisen (23:29):
Do you say that?
See them? Everyone?
Amanda Gorman (23:31):
Everyone saw Chelsea she's the creative.
She's
Unknown (23:35):
creative.
Amanda Gorman (23:38):
Yeah, no, Chelsea is she's been amazing. She keeps
this organized and keeps me onpoint and tells me when to
energize and when to redo theoutro.
Unknown (23:53):
Now we do have a few minutes between was never had.
Larry, are there any questionsthat you want to add that we can
record now and put in? Becausewe have a few minutes? Sure. Um,
you know, that you have we canAmanda can ask those questions,
we can put it in the you know, Ithink that the more the better.
(24:13):
Like this stuff was sointeresting that you're talking
about so hit us hit us up.
I'm trying to think of,
Lori Theisen (24:19):
you know, with the pumping and dumping the pumping
and dumping part because wecould talk about more like we
could go back to kind of thatquestion because
Amanda Gorman (24:31):
whatever little topic we could touch on is. And
I don't know if it's too much ofa topic but looping in the
benefits of donor milk or isknowing that knowing that breast
milk is ideally developed out ofcommunication between a mom and
a baby.
Is it still okay to look at, youknow, giving donor milk or does
donor milk disrupt that? Yeah,too much too. Is that too much
(24:54):
to dive into? No,
Unknown (24:56):
I can.
So why don't you just sayAmanda, can you just say let's
talk a little bit about donormilk? And then Lori can jump
right in and first Lori, he canhear me. Okay, right. Yep.
Laurie. So first define donormilk so that people understand
what that is because some peoplemay have never heard that and
then talk a little bit about thekind of bio
Amanda Gorman (25:21):
Do you I mean, do you know we didn't really give
you any preparation for thisyet? do you have?
Lori Theisen (25:26):
Yeah, and there's actually a study that just came
out that said, if you can putone drop of your own breast milk
into donor milk, after aboutfour or five hours, it changes
the donor milk into your milkfor your baby, which is wild.
Unknown (25:41):
There you go. All right. Okay. And then and then
another question could be as afollow up to that, you guys, you
guys, let me know. But, um, foradaptive and parents who have
babies born from surrogacy,what, in addition to donor milk,
what other options are there outthere? And maybe we can talk
(26:03):
about that.
Lori Theisen (26:05):
So that can give that could be pretty lengthy. So
donor milk would be the greatestthing, you know, what would be a
great thing, but you can relaxstate, if you've never had a
baby, you can take medicationsto make milk. And that might be
Amanda Gorman (26:21):
so I think, sprinkle
Unknown (26:23):
smell.
Amanda Gorman (26:24):
We don't have to go into too much depth. But I
think there's much thatgenerally people don't even know
about. So yeah, even if it'sjust, you know, sprinkling the
information lightly, then atleast
Unknown (26:36):
prevent, like, just give somebody some something to
Google. You know what I mean?
And that's okay. It doesn't haveto be the full shebang. But I
think we talked for two or threeminutes about that. It's like I
said, it's totally fine. Becausethen like you said, it's like a
little bit of a sprinkle. Gotit.
Amanda Gorman (26:51):
Let me so my question, you're writing my
question down.
Lori Theisen (26:55):
She's great. She is great. She's
Unknown (26:57):
got it.
All right. I told you my latestbusiness idea which I have a new
business idea, like every 10seconds. But my late my second,
actually, no, I've had to myfirt my most recent one was the
mom to be envy. Oh, hold on, letme do this, my kids today, which
(27:17):
is that moms can go to a littleVMB while they're in their third
trimester to get away from theirannoying husbands and families
and everything else and havethis whole, like, weekend of
like, you can meet withlactation consultant, you can
talk to a doula you can do this.
You can bath in the morning.
Awesome. The whole curated staybased on like just having a
(27:41):
couple of days just to be inyour own pregnant world.
Amanda Gorman (27:45):
Have you trademark this? Yeah. We had
this collaborative, ironically,are in the business of
developing new products. So
Unknown (27:55):
don't steal my idea.
But then the other likeroyalties, yeah, equity.
Perfect. And then the otherbusiness idea was like a
parent's dating services, sayyou're single, you want to
become a mom. You may be able tomeet up with another woman who
can count as friends likemeeting people who maybe you
(28:16):
want to be parents, but don'tnecessarily like not romantic or
just like, want to be just likea meeting. Yeah. But no dating.
That'd be amazing. I'm a singlemother. I would like that. I
like who wants to be the singlemom or you're just a woman who's
like, I don't want to settle forno man. But I want to, I want I
would like to maybe be with evenanother guy or woman. But it's
(28:42):
not necessarily romantic. It'slike, I just want to co parent
and have like a homey. Like,yes,
Amanda Gorman (28:49):
skip all of the pre stuff and jump Rachel what
parenting really is, which isjust like friends with a
business relationship for a fewyears. Yeah.
Unknown (28:58):
But like this whole idea of like having this co
parent that isn't necessarilyromantic, but it's just like,
like, it could very well be twogirlfriends who just want to be
just, you know, that's my other.
This is a very weird, I wouldjoin that I'm
Lori Theisen (29:12):
a single mother, I would join that in a heartbeat.
It's like you go on and it'slike Bumble, right? You're like
I'm a single mom.
Unknown (29:19):
I want to be
Lori Theisen (29:22):
and you can compare it you can feel out like
parenting styles.
Amanda Gorman (29:25):
I would have loved to do my first few years
postpartum with my girlfriendinstead of
Lori Theisen (29:32):
I love you, Ryan.
You've learned so much andChelsea that first idea too. I
bet you that would greatlyreduce like preaching preterm
birth, like it would really helprelax moms and that kind of
amazing idea came to me at 40weeks and like six days,
Amanda Gorman (29:50):
they say true ideas work when you actually
have realized the problemyourself.
Unknown (29:55):
And I literally you're like, Where's my end, I was
obsessed with the idea.
Amanda Gorman (30:02):
So would you would it be more like a retreat
or more like a conference ormore like a vacation?
Unknown (30:10):
No, it's literally just take a picture of you and be
like a nice guy like inConnecticut or upstate in a year
or whatever. But it's totallybeen. So you check in, right?
You check in and you get in themorning, they deliver you a
ritual bath with all your herbsand stuff. So you can soak in a
solo
Amanda Gorman (30:27):
venture, you're not there, you're not like in a
group setting for the educationstuff.
One on one order could be whereit's like, okay, these are the
things that yes, because likesome lower price point, like
group work, right? higher pricepoint, right. And you can choose
your individual path. So you cansay, Okay, I want to meet you, I
want to do this, I want to dothat. I want to do this. And
it's like a, it's almost like acurated weekend away. Anyway,
(30:53):
do you want hostos on yourmassage, or aroma therapy
Unknown (30:57):
or foods? Like there's a chef in the freezer, I like
for pre birthing and doing thewhole thing and like other this
is great for this. And thenmaybe there's like some, you
know, whatever. Maybe you gaincooking class, which is like a
recipe for baby fever, purees.
Lori Theisen (31:13):
And maybe a therapist so you can complain
about your partner.
Amanda Gorman (31:17):
Or maybe there's like something that you can help
you talk to your partner betterso that they can be like, not so
much of a deadbeat. Well, wecould have it we could have a
therapist, there are so manythings. You have your questions.
I'm doodling again. So can youread my handwriting?
Let's talk a bit about donormilk. In addition to donor milk,
what are the options foradoptive and surrogate parents?
(31:40):
Are we missing later? But are wemissing a sub subset of parents
who would want to inducelactation?
Well, they are either adopted ordoes adopted adoption. And Sir,
I get
Lori Theisen (31:58):
I mean, same sex marriages. So you know, I've
taken care of plenty of womenwho one birth the baby and the
other one wants to breastfeedthe baby. I'm not sure how we
would describe that, though. So
Amanda Gorman (32:13):
adoptive surrogates, same sex
Unknown (32:20):
couples?
Amanda Gorman (32:23):
Or even women who medically
Unknown (32:26):
Yeah, no, no,
Amanda Gorman (32:28):
well, no, because then they wouldn't be able to
induce lactation, either.
Unknown (32:32):
You're talking about it, or they're not normal or
unable to breastfeed?
Lori Theisen (32:45):
Well, because if they, they can relax aid or
taking medication, so they couldbe able to have a or have
already.
Amanda Gorman (33:00):
Who want to relax. So in other words, how do
we differentiate like inductionversus relaxation? So or women
who may have already stopped andwant to relax?
Okay, that no, because how doesthat? How does that tie in like,
same sex? Or you're saying thatin addition, so that goes so
(33:24):
for adoptive families or samesex couples,
Lori Theisen (33:30):
and then I will, you could say, surrogates or
adoptive and then I could bringup like, you know, same sex
couples, the women are able to,you know, both mothers are able
to breastfeed their babies, youknow, with the help of
medication and pumping.
Amanda Gorman (33:45):
Okay, so out.
Yeah. Okay. And then and then itkind of, you know, she just
shows there's lots of optionsfor lots of different families
based on their individualjourneys, everything, okay,
okay. All right. Want to jumpinto that and record, wherever
you're recording anything?
Unknown (34:00):
When you're ready? Oh, someone's gonna record your
idea, steal it.
Amanda Gorman (34:07):
Let's talk a bit about donor milk. What is donor
milk?
Lori Theisen (34:12):
Yeah, so donor milk is milk that's been donated
from another woman who maybe hashad an oversupply or has even
maybe lost a child at at birth.
And what they do is they donatemilk, their breast milk, to a
milk bank, usually. The milkbank will screen the families
make sure that they're not any-on any type of medications that
(34:35):
could harm a baby or any certaindiseases, and then they will
pasteurize the milk. Andsometimes hospitals will buy the
donor milk and then give that totheir birthing families as well.
Amanda Gorman (34:50):
Interesting, and I think I've even heard that in
some cases, women don't know butpediatricians can prescribe
additional supplemental milk inthe form of donor milk. So for a
baby who for some reason oranother isn't getting enough, at
some point, and if mom isn'table to meet the demand herself.
And in in some cases, insuranceswill actually pay for it as
(35:13):
well.
Lori Theisen (35:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yes.
Amanda Gorman (35:15):
So that's, that's exciting. You know, in addition
to donor milk, what otheroptions are out there for, say,
adoptive families or familiesthat use surrogates?
Lori Theisen (35:29):
Yeah. So with adoptive families, you know,
donor milk is a wonderfuloption. There are, you know,
some surrogates will often pumpand give their milk for a
certain amount of weeks ormonths. For families of same sex
couples, you know, you can takecertain medications to make
(35:52):
breast milk and relactate even.
So by pumping and certainmedications, you could also be
able to breastfeed your ownadopted child. There's lots of
options for individual familiesand their individual feeding
journeys.
Amanda Gorman (36:10):
Well, that's really nice to know. And I help
those that didn't know who arelistening have learned
something. So thank you.
Lori Theisen (36:17):
Yes.
Unknown (36:20):
Shall we do the after I just want to hear me out.
No, because I think that thosetwo are great additions. Is
there anything else?
Lori Theisen (36:31):
Oh, I could talk about this for hours.
Amanda Gorman (36:33):
But you're easy.
You're like Easy peasy. So cool.
It's back. Yay, I can get to domore. Yeah. Oh,
Lori Theisen (36:46):
you need to do Amanda. Not that you have like
nothing to do. But you shouldreally get an app on your plate.
A nest app? Well, let's,
Amanda Gorman (36:55):
let's talk about that. Because what I would want
to know is the what and the why.
And I only say that, because I'msuch a pessimist when it comes
to apps. And I'm also 10 yearsolder than all of our clients.
And I'm like, there's too manyapps on my phone. And they're
just we're gonna be bias becauseof my feelings about apps. So,
(37:16):
and I'd want to make sure it wasdifferentiated. Thank, you know,
I know IP talk. Um,
Lori Theisen (37:28):
yeah, so I think like, my idea has always been, I
mean, that's the way of theworld for the youngsters, right?
I'm older than all of them, too.
But that's the way of the worldis these apps. If we had one
that was like, you know, you Imean, we can think is so much
bigger and outside of the box,like they can keep their wet and
dirty diapers in there. They cankeep their pumping sessions,
they can see, I know how oftenthey breastfeed when they
(37:49):
breastfeed, it could beconnected to the charm portal,
we would know what's going on atall the time at all times. And
then like motivation and tips,like you know, especially like,
okay, two weeks old, your baby'sprobably gonna get fussy or more
collocate this is normal, gassybabies are is a normal baby
spitty babies are normal. Andthen like, Oh, it's almost eight
(38:13):
weeks, your baby's not going tosleep for a week because it's
sleep regression. Get ready,like these little warnings. And
I you know, and then, you know,you open the app at 3am to pump
and then there's some kind ofquote in there. That's like,
you're doing awesome. I know,you're tired, but you're doing
great. You know,
Amanda Gorman (38:33):
I'm like Saturday, my life name like?
Unknown (38:36):
Um, I know, I know, there's a
thought
Lori Theisen (38:41):
there's a million apps out there. I know, how
would you differentiate yournote?
Amanda Gorman (38:44):
Right? That's the thing. But I think the big thing
would be connecting it makingsure the data was coming in a
charm. So but then the questionis who's monitoring that data?
Right? So like, are you? Or issomeone monitoring it? Or?
Unknown (39:00):
And then we could definitely
Amanda Gorman (39:05):
drum up some real value in it. It just has, we
have to take some time and thinkabout it.
Unknown (39:10):
Yeah, baby steps.
Amanda Gorman (39:14):
Okay, baby steps.
No pun intended.
All right. Well, Laurie, thankyou so much. And I know that
I've been totally um, I have nothad good enough time. But you
came in like when we went intosixth gear,
Lori Theisen (39:31):
so I totally, I'm loving it. I
Amanda Gorman (39:35):
hear and know nothing but wonderful things. So
just watch out because you'reonly probably going to get more
stuff to help with becauseapparently you're really good at
everything so far. So.
Unknown (39:48):
Thanks.
All right. Thank
Amanda Gorman (39:51):
you so much. All right. Thanks. Have a good
night. You too. Bye.
Who would put the filter on?
Amanda Gorman (00:23):
I just had a meeting this morning.
Unknown (00:25):
And you didn't notice that.
You notice it right away. Somaybe I could Google it's a
little hard to get it off likethat. Like, I feel like is there
like a hack a virus way? Oh,shoot.
I lost like she was on me thismorning.
Yeah.
(00:48):
Hi.
Amanda Gorman (00:56):
Hello.
Unknown (00:57):
Hi, how are you?
Good. I
Amanda Gorman (01:00):
have to tell you quickly, which is. So we just
did an episode with Dr. seydel,who's the chief medical officer
of women's health USA, the powerpartner. So I'm sitting here
right before the podcast and I'mlike,
Unknown (01:15):
why is it look like a mustache?
Amanda Gorman (01:17):
I'm like, Am I like getting a dark ring like?
So we sat here troubleshootingonly to realize I had a filter
on my zoom that was giving me amustache and a goatee. And I was
like,
Unknown (01:29):
how did I get here? I was like,
I had a meeting this morning.
Like,did you see a mustache? No.
Oh my god. That's awesome.
That's really like, this is mykid. I don't know.
Amanda Gorman (01:47):
We literally delayed like 20 minutes. Try not
2010 trying to figure out how toand he was funny. He's like,
Unknown (01:54):
Oh, yeah, I see it.
Yeah, I was like, so it's like athing. And I was like to have a
good tea too. And he's like,yeah. Anyway,
Amanda Gorman (02:03):
okay, well, we have Chelsea here. Next day,
Laurie?
Unknown (02:06):
Hi. How are ya?
Lori Theisen (02:08):
Good. How are you?
Great. Great.
Amanda Gorman (02:11):
Great. Great.
Thank you so much for we're justwe're just giggling after the
whole mustache, you know,mustache gates that we were
having. Actually, we just took aquick break so that I could pump
in the bathroom. And I was like,How funny is this that I'm like
having to pump in the bathroom,which I told
her not to pump in the bathroomto pump here in the studio. But
she was worried about cameras
Unknown (02:32):
in a studio. But anyway, the irony of that we're
doing a breastfeeding podcastand that I'm pumping.
Yes, that is the irony rightthere.
Lori Theisen (02:41):
That's good. I'm glad you're pumping. But not in
a bathroom. I
Amanda Gorman (02:45):
know I did my duty. It was it wasn't like a
cubicle. It wasn't like a stall.
It was enough room. It was likeanyway, doesn't matter. Thank
you so much. Where I'm like,I've been telling him how to how
excited I am about this episode.
In particular, I think it'sgonna be awesome. So just a
quick kind of recap on whatwe've already talked about on
(03:05):
the phone and over email, whichis just this is supposed to be
just a really casual fun chatbetween girlfriends like that
feel and vibe of like, you know,just that casual, informative,
but not scary. And this topicspecifically is not scary at
all, but just wanted to keep itkind of light and fun. I know
(03:25):
that you're going to just bringso much information. And I'm so
psyched about that. So I thinkit's going to be fantastic. If
at any point you stumble feellike you didn't answer something
the way in which you wanted to,you can just say hey, can we
stop and redo that? BecauseOkay, it's not live. So don't
feel like, you know, if at anypoint, you're like, Oh, I messed
that up, or who knows what it'sfine to just say, Hey, can we
(03:46):
stop? Don't worry about it.
Yeah, I'm midway through,Amanda, we'll talk about taking
a short break. And that's goingto be when we edit in a
commercial. So when we take ashort break, she's just going to
pause for like, two or threeseconds, you'll hear her pause,
and then we'll just jump rightback in. Okay, um, and that's
really it that just, you know,keep energy high. You know,
(04:08):
again, just we want it to be funand informative. So just keep
your energy up. And I wastelling me I know yell at Amanda
to keep her energy up,especially when we do four of
these in a row.
Unknown (04:22):
coffee, coffee, coffee.
Yeah, yeah, it gets a bit much.
But thank you so much, again,for joining us today and taking
time out. We're thrilled andyeah, we're excited to get
started. Let me just see.
Amanda Gorman (04:32):
Yes. And this is like literally Laurie came like
started and it was like awhirlwind. So she and I actually
haven't even really had anyquality time together. So it's
true. Yes, sir. First qualitytime together, which is
terribly sad. Phil's gonna comein and just start this camera.
Okay, um, in a second and thenwe'll and then we'll get started
in just a second.
(04:52):
Um, and I know I know the answerthis but it's Tyson. Right.
Lori Theisen (04:56):
Yeah. Tyson like Mike Tyson. Like
Unknown (05:00):
But with two years, what two years,
Amanda Gorman (05:03):
although I guess it's on his ear
Lori Theisen (05:08):
with soft teeth.
Unknown (05:09):
I know.
Amanda Gorman (05:12):
Sorry. It's a lot of time in a small room.
Unknown (05:15):
I'm sure it is.
Amanda Gorman (05:18):
Yeah. It's like the only time I can get out of
the house.
Lori Theisen (05:25):
But to keep that energy up and focus, whoo, yeah.
Amanda Gorman (05:30):
And it's our only time together Chelsea we've met
a pandemic the whole time. Andnow she's my neighbor and never
really gets it.
Unknown (05:37):
We've been in quarantine for months.
And yes, yes. How did that no.
I mean, she's here so when shecame out, it's a little girl Her
name is Imogen Heap three weeksold. She's,
Amanda Gorman (05:56):
she's really beautiful. Maybe?
Unknown (05:58):
Even Julie, so pretty.
I love that name. Yeah, we callher me for sure. And she's got a
big brother named Arthur who'stoo and he's a lot of fun. And
he likes to help bomb and do allthe things and he's really cute.
He's like me. Anybody can saythe whole thing? Yeah, no, it's
(06:23):
going. It's going really well.
But this is like the first timeI've left the house in three
weeks effectively. Like for anyamount of time this person I've
left her so I'm like, Oh, youshould probably come here. And I
could celebrate after the poorfamily. Anyway. Okay, I'm muting
my mic now. Okay.
When you're ready.
Amanda Gorman (06:42):
All right. I'm ready.
[Intro] Hey, mamas andmamas-to-be. Welcome to another
episode of BreastfeedingUnplugged. I'm so very excited
for today's episode, becauseinstead of talking about the
whys and the hows ofbreastfeeding, we are actually
going to dive to an allimportant what. As in, what the
heck is breast milk anyway? Weall know that breast milk is
(07:04):
produced naturally by mamasstarting as early as in
pregnancy, but most of us don'tknow that it actually has
[interruption]- being able tohelp [interruption] off viruses
and bacteria, to actuallyraising their IQ, giving your
little one their daily dose ofmagic milk is a lot more
beneficial than you might think.
The advantages don't stop atbaby either. Studies have shown
(07:25):
that breastfeeding mamas loseweight faster, have less
bleeding after giving birth, andan easier recovery postpartum.
And some research even linksbreastfeeding to lower rates of
breast and ovarian cancers laterin life. So does breastfeeding
really live up to the hype?
Let's find out. With us today isMadison, Wisconsin based IBCLC
(07:48):
Laurie Tyson. After her son wasborn and admitted to the NICU,
and she experienced feedingchallenges of her own, Lori
became frustrated with the lackof consistent information
regarding breastfeeding andwanted to create change for
other families. This led her tobecome a registered nurse and an
international board certifiedlactation consultant, which we
(08:10):
are so very grateful for at NestCollaborative. Lori's worked as
a postpartum nurse and lactationconsultant in private practice,
as well as in the largestbirthing center in Wisconsin.
She's super passionate about thescience behind breast milk. And
we're really just thrilled tohave her here to talk about it.
So welcome, Lori.
Lori Theisen (08:31):
Thank you so much.
I'm so thrilled and honored tobe here.
Amanda Gorman (08:37):
We're happy to have you. So before I jump in,
I'd like to hear a little bitmore about your story. So, you
know, I know like many lactationconsultants, you really pursued
this career path based on yourown experience. So tell us more
about what happened after thebirth of your son and how you
got to where you are today.
Lori Theisen (08:54):
Yeah, so my son was born and I never took a
breastfeeding class because Ifigured it was natural and easy.
So why would I have to take yourclass? Which led to me not
knowing how to breastfeed, heended up being dehydrated with
jaundice and readmitted into theNICU because of that. And while
(09:17):
I was in the NICU, I saw severallactation consultants. And then
when we were discharged, I saweven more. And in that
experience, I just realized howimportant this education is for
families to have before theyhave their baby. And I wanted to
be a part of that team of peopleeducating and supporting and
(09:37):
helping kind of like how I hadthe help when I was in the NICU.
Amanda Gorman (09:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, we're really glad you'rehere with us today, both as an
IBCLC and as our guests on theshow. So today we're talking
about the magic of breast milk,which might seem a bit
exaggerated, but in reality, weprobably don't talk enough about
how amazing it actually is. Sowould you agree with that?
Lori Theisen (10:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
Our bodies are amazing. So Idefinitely think breast milk is
magical.
Amanda Gorman (10:09):
So let's start with the basics. What exactly is
breast milk anyway?
Lori Theisen (10:15):
You know, breast milk is white blood cells, its
living cells, it's everythingneeded to maintain a human body.
And what's important is to knowhow our immune system works.
Once we know how the immunesystem works, it's a little bit
easier to understand how breastmilk works. So when we get sick,
(10:36):
you know, our bodies, our skinis filled with viruses and
bacterias, and germs, right, andthey're in our nose, and they're
in our mouth or everywhere. Sowhen we get sick, our body meets
the virus, reads it and startsto fight it. And we'll have you
know, symptoms of that if it's acold, we'll have a runny nose,
(10:57):
you know, we'll have a sorethroat. And it's our immune
system that fights the cold orthe virus. It's our immune
system, which is all white bloodcells. And that's what breast
milk is.
Amanda Gorman (11:12):
Interesting. And so how does it exactly prevent
illness?
Lori Theisen (11:18):
You know, there's 1000s of different components
within breast milk. So it's hardto kind of decide to talk about
just a few of them, but Imanaged to come up with a few of
them. In breast milk, there'ssomething called a lactoferrin.
Lactoferrin is an antibacterial,and it eats the food that a bad
(11:43):
bacteria would need to eat tosurvive. So this lactoferrin is
in breast milk, the baby drinksit, and then the lactoferrin
goes around and just eats badbacteria all day long. Just eats
it so the baby doesn't get sick.
There's an amazing cell calledan HAMLET cell. And that stands
for Human Alpha-lactalbumin MadeLethal to Tumor cells. So this
(12:07):
really cool cell, the baby hassomething in the gut, which is
called an oleic acid. And thenin the breast milk is the Human
Alpha- lactalbumin. So thetheory is when that Human
Alpha-lacta- lactalbumin comesinto the body, it connects with
the oleic acid in the infant'sgut, and it creates this tumor
(12:31):
killing system. So that HAMLETcell just goes around and kills
tumor cells. It kills cancercells, and it protects the baby
from from birth and on.
Amanda Gorman (12:47):
That's so interesting.
Lori Theisen (12:48):
Yeah.
Amanda Gorman (12:50):
So if a mom is sick, should she refrain from
breastfeeding and just pump anddump?
Lori Theisen (12:58):
Yeah, absolutely not. No. If, if a mother is
sick, the most important thingis to breastfeed, breastfeed,
breastfeed. And there's two, twobig main ways that keep the baby
healthy. So let's pretend mom'ssick. So she gets a cold and she
has, you know, her immune systembegins to develop the antibodies
(13:21):
and those antibodies come fromthat lymph system. Those
antibodies are then transferredinto breast milk, and the baby
drinks that breast milk so thatbaby is literally protected
before the baby is eveninfected. And then the other way
is when a baby's sick. So thebaby will latch on to the breast
(13:44):
and there's this whole vacuumseal and suction where it pulls
out the breast milk and as itpulls out the breast milk, the
baby's spit goes into the nippleholes like this backwash system.
And it will go into the milkducts where the mother's body
will read the baby saliva andwill say, oh, the baby's got the
(14:08):
flu right now. And then there'sflu cells in the saliva. So then
the mother's body builds andcreates and makes the antibodies
for the flu, and then the babydrinks it. And the symptoms that
the baby has from the flu are,you know, they're not as severe
and the length of the illness iscut short because of those
antibodies.
Amanda Gorman (14:29):
Pretty amazing.
So, can different women producedifferent types of breast milk?
Lori Theisen (14:37):
Yes, absolutely.
Breast milk is never the same.
It's constantly changing. So itchanges from mom to mom. It
changes gestationally. So a babythat's born premature, the milk
will be fattier to help developand grow the brain of the baby.
(14:58):
So preterm milk is fattier.
They've done studies of twins.
So you know, baby a is alwaysnursing on the left breast and
baby b is always nursing on theright breast. The milk in the
right breast versus the leftbreast is different because it's
that, that feedback loo- loop,that feedback loop that is
(15:20):
constantly changing and made toorder for each baby.
Amanda Gorman (15:24):
Hmm. This is so interesting and very, very cool.
We don't really talk about thescience behind breast milk
enough, and we certainly don'tcelebrate how amazing it really
is. It's hard to believe that awoman's body can produce
everything a baby needs both tosurvive and thrive. I have a ton
(15:44):
of questions still to ask. Butwe're gonna take a quick pause
listeners, we will be rightback.
Thanks for hanging out with usmamas, we are back with Lori
Theisen IBCLC, our very ownMadison, Wisconsin based IBCLC
at Nest Collaborative talkingabout all the magic of breast
(16:06):
milk. So is there anything thatmoms can do to make breast milk
better in terms of itsnutrients?
Lori Theisen (16:14):
You know, breast milk is just perfect as it is.
So again, that whole immunebuilding system that breast milk
is, you know, I guess you couldbe in your baby's environment.
So if your baby's in thedaycare, and there's a you know,
there's a bunch of kids gettingthe flu, go hang out in the
(16:36):
daycare, you're going to getthat flu virus on your skin,
it's going to go into yourimmune system, and then you're
going to build those antibodiesand your baby's going to drink
it. If you're a NICU mom, hangout in the NICU a lot.
Everything that's you know, thatyour baby comes in contact with
in the NICU all the germs andbugs, you'll get that on your
skin. And when you pump to givethat milk, the antibodies for
(17:00):
that, those microbes will bethere for that baby.
Amanda Gorman (17:05):
What are your favorite foods that you
recommend for building milksupply or sustaining milk
supply?
Lori Theisen (17:12):
Yeah, favorite foods? For supply? My favorite
foods for supply would bebreastfeeding, hand expression,
pumping, maybe with the side ofherbal tea, I guess. So there's
really, there's really, youknow, there's not direct foods
(17:32):
that are going to help withsupply. We know science why
it's- science wise, it's theremoval of milk that makes your
supply and helps your supply. Sothe more you nurse, the more you
make, and some people say,remove it or lose it. And that's
going to be what's best for yoursupply.
Amanda Gorman (17:53):
Good to know.
We've certainly heard ofinstances of bodybuilders and
elite athletes now drinkingbreast milk. What do you think
of this?
Lori Theisen (18:05):
You know, I fully support it, why not? There are
three times more you know,immune building properties in
breast milk than cow's milk. Andand you know, double the
protein. It's just fantastic. Sowhy not? If it helps, baby,
sure, it could help you buildmuscles and get stronger.
Different cultures, you know,use milk for all kinds of
(18:28):
reasons and you know, werecommend it for pinkeye, it can
help for sore, cracked nipples,putting some milk on that so
sure, why not?
Amanda Gorman (18:39):
This as long as you don't take it from a baby, I
guess. Right?
Lori Theisen (18:41):
Yes. Don't take it from the baby. If it's an extra
extra supply, yes.
Amanda Gorman (18:47):
Okay, so what are the main differences between
breast milk and formula?
Lori Theisen (18:52):
You know, formula, you crack a can open and it's
the same for a three day oldbaby, as it is for a six month
old baby, as it is for an 11month old baby. Where breast
milk is constantly changing. Thebaby's body and the mother's
body are communicating back andforth. You know, it could be a
(19:15):
really hot summer day when thebaby nurses, they'll communicate
that I'm thirstier and I need tobe more hydrated, and they'll
get more you know, watery milk.
If a baby's going through agrowth spurt the body's gonna
know and build that, thatfattier milk to help that baby
grow and formula can't do that.
Amanda Gorman (19:36):
Helpful to know.
So hit us with some of yourfavorite fun facts that moms
need to know about breast milk.
Lori Theisen (19:45):
Fun facts. You know, there is one property in
milk that's called anoligosaccharide. This is a fun
fact and I like to talk about itin my prenatals. An
oligosaccharide, has nonutritive benefit. So why is it
in breast milk? Why is it there?
Why is the baby drinking it? Anoligosaccharide is this really
(20:07):
cool, I like to envision it as apuzzle piece. So it's this cool
puzzle piece the baby drinks,and as it goes down through the
mouth, esophagus, the stomach,into the intestines, it just
connects to really bad stufflike listeria, salmonella,
campylobacter, rotavirus, itconnects to all these really bad
(20:30):
things, and it comes out intobaby's poop and it is found
whole. So it prevents these badthings to connect to the gut
system to the intestines so babydoesn't get sick. So I, it's
almost like drinking handsanitizer. It's just killing
stuff along the way and grabbingonto it and right out into the
(20:51):
poop.
Amanda Gorman (20:53):
I was gonna say like a Roomba.
Lori Theisen (20:57):
Yes.
Amanda Gorman (20:59):
That I mean, that really is pretty amazing. Um,
for moms who are having troublebreastfeeding, what advice do
you have for them?
Lori Theisen (21:10):
Yeah. You know, to be kind and gentle to yourself,
because this parenting stuff ishard. And don't give up on even
your worst day. And find a BoardCertified Lactation Consultant.
Lactation Consultants have theevidence to help you and then
(21:32):
the tips and tricks to helpguide you into what your feeding
goals are. And that's reallyimportant to have somebody on
your side who can be yourcheerleader, but is really super
smart at the same time.
Amanda Gorman (21:47):
Mm hmm.
Absolutely. I mean, I know frommy experience, I had a lot of
trouble. And had I had someonelike you there, that would have
been really helpful. I couldhave learned a lot more than I
knew. Well, Lori, I am bummed tosay that that we're out of time
for today. But you know, thisconversation has been so rich in
(22:08):
information. And I know thatyou've really inspired a lot of
moms out there who are listeningwith [interrupted]. So happy
that you came today. Thank youso much.
Lori Theisen (22:19):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Amanda Gorman (22:23):
Well, if listeners do want to get in
touch with you or book a virtualconsult, where can they find
you?
Lori Theisen (22:28):
At Nest Collaborative.
Amanda Gorman (22:30):
Yes, they can.
Well, excellent. Thank you.
Thank you so much. We lovedhaving you as our guest today. I
hope you'll be back again soon.
Lori Theisen (22:38):
I would be honored. Thank you so much.
Amanda Gorman (22:40):
Of course. Well, now to you mamas and mamas to
be. Thank you for tuning in totoday's show. We hope you
learned as much as we did. Andif you have any questions or a
show topic suggestion, we reallywould love to hear it. Message
us on Instagram or Facebook@breastfeedingunplugged, or
visit us on our website atbreastfeedingunplugged.com. You
(23:01):
can give us your feedback there.
And while you're at it, ifyou're totally loving the show,
please give us a rating onwhatever podc- podcast platform
you're listening from. And itwill help us reach more mamas
all around the world. Until nextweek, it's me Amanda, wishing
you all your best on yourbreastfeeding journey. Boo bye.
[Outro] I will redo the outro
Unknown (23:26):
Did you say boo bye?
Amanda Gorman (23:28):
certainly did boo. Bye.
Lori Theisen (23:29):
Do you say that?
See them? Everyone?
Amanda Gorman (23:31):
Everyone saw Chelsea she's the creative.
She's
Unknown (23:35):
creative.
Amanda Gorman (23:38):
Yeah, no, Chelsea is she's been amazing. She keeps
this organized and keeps me onpoint and tells me when to
energize and when to redo theoutro.
Unknown (23:53):
Now we do have a few minutes between was never had.
Larry, are there any questionsthat you want to add that we can
record now and put in? Becausewe have a few minutes? Sure. Um,
you know, that you have we canAmanda can ask those questions,
we can put it in the you know, Ithink that the more the better.
(24:13):
Like this stuff was sointeresting that you're talking
about so hit us hit us up.
I'm trying to think of,
Lori Theisen (24:19):
you know, with the pumping and dumping the pumping
and dumping part because wecould talk about more like we
could go back to kind of thatquestion because
Amanda Gorman (24:31):
whatever little topic we could touch on is. And
I don't know if it's too much ofa topic but looping in the
benefits of donor milk or isknowing that knowing that breast
milk is ideally developed out ofcommunication between a mom and
a baby.
Is it still okay to look at, youknow, giving donor milk or does
donor milk disrupt that? Yeah,too much too. Is that too much
(24:54):
to dive into? No,
Unknown (24:56):
I can.
So why don't you just sayAmanda, can you just say let's
talk a little bit about donormilk? And then Lori can jump
right in and first Lori, he canhear me. Okay, right. Yep.
Laurie. So first define donormilk so that people understand
what that is because some peoplemay have never heard that and
then talk a little bit about thekind of bio
Amanda Gorman (25:21):
Do you I mean, do you know we didn't really give
you any preparation for thisyet? do you have?
Lori Theisen (25:26):
Yeah, and there's actually a study that just came
out that said, if you can putone drop of your own breast milk
into donor milk, after aboutfour or five hours, it changes
the donor milk into your milkfor your baby, which is wild.
Unknown (25:41):
There you go. All right. Okay. And then and then
another question could be as afollow up to that, you guys, you
guys, let me know. But, um, foradaptive and parents who have
babies born from surrogacy,what, in addition to donor milk,
what other options are there outthere? And maybe we can talk
(26:03):
about that.
Lori Theisen (26:05):
So that can give that could be pretty lengthy. So
donor milk would be the greatestthing, you know, what would be a
great thing, but you can relaxstate, if you've never had a
baby, you can take medicationsto make milk. And that might be
Amanda Gorman (26:21):
so I think, sprinkle
Unknown (26:23):
smell.
Amanda Gorman (26:24):
We don't have to go into too much depth. But I
think there's much thatgenerally people don't even know
about. So yeah, even if it'sjust, you know, sprinkling the
information lightly, then atleast
Unknown (26:36):
prevent, like, just give somebody some something to
Google. You know what I mean?
And that's okay. It doesn't haveto be the full shebang. But I
think we talked for two or threeminutes about that. It's like I
said, it's totally fine. Becausethen like you said, it's like a
little bit of a sprinkle. Gotit.
Amanda Gorman (26:51):
Let me so my question, you're writing my
question down.
Lori Theisen (26:55):
She's great. She is great. She's
Unknown (26:57):
got it.
All right. I told you my latestbusiness idea which I have a new
business idea, like every 10seconds. But my late my second,
actually, no, I've had to myfirt my most recent one was the
mom to be envy. Oh, hold on, letme do this, my kids today, which
(27:17):
is that moms can go to a littleVMB while they're in their third
trimester to get away from theirannoying husbands and families
and everything else and havethis whole, like, weekend of
like, you can meet withlactation consultant, you can
talk to a doula you can do this.
You can bath in the morning.
Awesome. The whole curated staybased on like just having a
(27:41):
couple of days just to be inyour own pregnant world.
Amanda Gorman (27:45):
Have you trademark this? Yeah. We had
this collaborative, ironically,are in the business of
developing new products. So
Unknown (27:55):
don't steal my idea.
But then the other likeroyalties, yeah, equity.
Perfect. And then the otherbusiness idea was like a
parent's dating services, sayyou're single, you want to
become a mom. You may be able tomeet up with another woman who
can count as friends likemeeting people who maybe you
(28:16):
want to be parents, but don'tnecessarily like not romantic or
just like, want to be just likea meeting. Yeah. But no dating.
That'd be amazing. I'm a singlemother. I would like that. I
like who wants to be the singlemom or you're just a woman who's
like, I don't want to settle forno man. But I want to, I want I
would like to maybe be with evenanother guy or woman. But it's
(28:42):
not necessarily romantic. It'slike, I just want to co parent
and have like a homey. Like,yes,
Amanda Gorman (28:49):
skip all of the pre stuff and jump Rachel what
parenting really is, which isjust like friends with a
business relationship for a fewyears. Yeah.
Unknown (28:58):
But like this whole idea of like having this co
parent that isn't necessarilyromantic, but it's just like,
like, it could very well be twogirlfriends who just want to be
just, you know, that's my other.
This is a very weird, I wouldjoin that I'm
Lori Theisen (29:12):
a single mother, I would join that in a heartbeat.
It's like you go on and it'slike Bumble, right? You're like
I'm a single mom.
Unknown (29:19):
I want to be
Lori Theisen (29:22):
and you can compare it you can feel out like
parenting styles.
Amanda Gorman (29:25):
I would have loved to do my first few years
postpartum with my girlfriendinstead of
Lori Theisen (29:32):
I love you, Ryan.
You've learned so much andChelsea that first idea too. I
bet you that would greatlyreduce like preaching preterm
birth, like it would really helprelax moms and that kind of
amazing idea came to me at 40weeks and like six days,
Amanda Gorman (29:50):
they say true ideas work when you actually
have realized the problemyourself.
Unknown (29:55):
And I literally you're like, Where's my end, I was
obsessed with the idea.
Amanda Gorman (30:02):
So would you would it be more like a retreat
or more like a conference ormore like a vacation?
Unknown (30:10):
No, it's literally just take a picture of you and be
like a nice guy like inConnecticut or upstate in a year
or whatever. But it's totallybeen. So you check in, right?
You check in and you get in themorning, they deliver you a
ritual bath with all your herbsand stuff. So you can soak in a
solo
Amanda Gorman (30:27):
venture, you're not there, you're not like in a
group setting for the educationstuff.
One on one order could be whereit's like, okay, these are the
things that yes, because likesome lower price point, like
group work, right? higher pricepoint, right. And you can choose
your individual path. So you cansay, Okay, I want to meet you, I
want to do this, I want to dothat. I want to do this. And
it's like a, it's almost like acurated weekend away. Anyway,
(30:53):
do you want hostos on yourmassage, or aroma therapy
Unknown (30:57):
or foods? Like there's a chef in the freezer, I like
for pre birthing and doing thewhole thing and like other this
is great for this. And thenmaybe there's like some, you
know, whatever. Maybe you gaincooking class, which is like a
recipe for baby fever, purees.
Lori Theisen (31:13):
And maybe a therapist so you can complain
about your partner.
Amanda Gorman (31:17):
Or maybe there's like something that you can help
you talk to your partner betterso that they can be like, not so
much of a deadbeat. Well, wecould have it we could have a
therapist, there are so manythings. You have your questions.
I'm doodling again. So can youread my handwriting?
Let's talk a bit about donormilk. In addition to donor milk,
what are the options foradoptive and surrogate parents?
(31:40):
Are we missing later? But are wemissing a sub subset of parents
who would want to inducelactation?
Well, they are either adopted ordoes adopted adoption. And Sir,
I get
Lori Theisen (31:58):
I mean, same sex marriages. So you know, I've
taken care of plenty of womenwho one birth the baby and the
other one wants to breastfeedthe baby. I'm not sure how we
would describe that, though. So
Amanda Gorman (32:13):
adoptive surrogates, same sex
Unknown (32:20):
couples?
Amanda Gorman (32:23):
Or even women who medically
Unknown (32:26):
Yeah, no, no,
Amanda Gorman (32:28):
well, no, because then they wouldn't be able to
induce lactation, either.
Unknown (32:32):
You're talking about it, or they're not normal or
unable to breastfeed?
Lori Theisen (32:45):
Well, because if they, they can relax aid or
taking medication, so they couldbe able to have a or have
already.
Amanda Gorman (33:00):
Who want to relax. So in other words, how do
we differentiate like inductionversus relaxation? So or women
who may have already stopped andwant to relax?
Okay, that no, because how doesthat? How does that tie in like,
same sex? Or you're saying thatin addition, so that goes so
(33:24):
for adoptive families or samesex couples,
Lori Theisen (33:30):
and then I will, you could say, surrogates or
adoptive and then I could bringup like, you know, same sex
couples, the women are able to,you know, both mothers are able
to breastfeed their babies, youknow, with the help of
medication and pumping.
Amanda Gorman (33:45):
Okay, so out.
Yeah. Okay. And then and then itkind of, you know, she just
shows there's lots of optionsfor lots of different families
based on their individualjourneys, everything, okay,
okay. All right. Want to jumpinto that and record, wherever
you're recording anything?
Unknown (34:00):
When you're ready? Oh, someone's gonna record your
idea, steal it.
Amanda Gorman (34:07):
Let's talk a bit about donor milk. What is donor
milk?
Lori Theisen (34:12):
Yeah, so donor milk is milk that's been donated
from another woman who maybe hashad an oversupply or has even
maybe lost a child at at birth.
And what they do is they donatemilk, their breast milk, to a
milk bank, usually. The milkbank will screen the families
make sure that they're not any-on any type of medications that
(34:35):
could harm a baby or any certaindiseases, and then they will
pasteurize the milk. Andsometimes hospitals will buy the
donor milk and then give that totheir birthing families as well.
Amanda Gorman (34:50):
Interesting, and I think I've even heard that in
some cases, women don't know butpediatricians can prescribe
additional supplemental milk inthe form of donor milk. So for a
baby who for some reason oranother isn't getting enough, at
some point, and if mom isn'table to meet the demand herself.
And in in some cases, insuranceswill actually pay for it as
(35:13):
well.
Lori Theisen (35:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yes.
Amanda Gorman (35:15):
So that's, that's exciting. You know, in addition
to donor milk, what otheroptions are out there for, say,
adoptive families or familiesthat use surrogates?
Lori Theisen (35:29):
Yeah. So with adoptive families, you know,
donor milk is a wonderfuloption. There are, you know,
some surrogates will often pumpand give their milk for a
certain amount of weeks ormonths. For families of same sex
couples, you know, you can takecertain medications to make
(35:52):
breast milk and relactate even.
So by pumping and certainmedications, you could also be
able to breastfeed your ownadopted child. There's lots of
options for individual familiesand their individual feeding
journeys.
Amanda Gorman (36:10):
Well, that's really nice to know. And I help
those that didn't know who arelistening have learned
something. So thank you.
Lori Theisen (36:17):
Yes.
Unknown (36:20):
Shall we do the after I just want to hear me out.
No, because I think that thosetwo are great additions. Is
there anything else?
Lori Theisen (36:31):
Oh, I could talk about this for hours.
Amanda Gorman (36:33):
But you're easy.
You're like Easy peasy. So cool.
It's back. Yay, I can get to domore. Yeah. Oh,
Lori Theisen (36:46):
you need to do Amanda. Not that you have like
nothing to do. But you shouldreally get an app on your plate.
A nest app? Well, let's,
Amanda Gorman (36:55):
let's talk about that. Because what I would want
to know is the what and the why.
And I only say that, because I'msuch a pessimist when it comes
to apps. And I'm also 10 yearsolder than all of our clients.
And I'm like, there's too manyapps on my phone. And they're
just we're gonna be bias becauseof my feelings about apps. So,
(37:16):
and I'd want to make sure it wasdifferentiated. Thank, you know,
I know IP talk. Um,
Lori Theisen (37:28):
yeah, so I think like, my idea has always been, I
mean, that's the way of theworld for the youngsters, right?
I'm older than all of them, too.
But that's the way of the worldis these apps. If we had one
that was like, you know, you Imean, we can think is so much
bigger and outside of the box,like they can keep their wet and
dirty diapers in there. They cankeep their pumping sessions,
they can see, I know how oftenthey breastfeed when they
(37:49):
breastfeed, it could beconnected to the charm portal,
we would know what's going on atall the time at all times. And
then like motivation and tips,like you know, especially like,
okay, two weeks old, your baby'sprobably gonna get fussy or more
collocate this is normal, gassybabies are is a normal baby
spitty babies are normal. Andthen like, Oh, it's almost eight
(38:13):
weeks, your baby's not going tosleep for a week because it's
sleep regression. Get ready,like these little warnings. And
I you know, and then, you know,you open the app at 3am to pump
and then there's some kind ofquote in there. That's like,
you're doing awesome. I know,you're tired, but you're doing
great. You know,
Amanda Gorman (38:33):
I'm like Saturday, my life name like?
Unknown (38:36):
Um, I know, I know, there's a
thought
Lori Theisen (38:41):
there's a million apps out there. I know, how
would you differentiate yournote?
Amanda Gorman (38:44):
Right? That's the thing. But I think the big thing
would be connecting it makingsure the data was coming in a
charm. So but then the questionis who's monitoring that data?
Right? So like, are you? Or issomeone monitoring it? Or?
Unknown (39:00):
And then we could definitely
Amanda Gorman (39:05):
drum up some real value in it. It just has, we
have to take some time and thinkabout it.
Unknown (39:10):
Yeah, baby steps.
Amanda Gorman (39:14):
Okay, baby steps.
No pun intended.
All right. Well, Laurie, thankyou so much. And I know that
I've been totally um, I have nothad good enough time. But you
came in like when we went intosixth gear,
Lori Theisen (39:31):
so I totally, I'm loving it. I
Amanda Gorman (39:35):
hear and know nothing but wonderful things. So
just watch out because you'reonly probably going to get more
stuff to help with becauseapparently you're really good at
everything so far. So.
Unknown (39:48):
Thanks.
All right. Thank
Amanda Gorman (39:51):
you so much. All right. Thanks. Have a good
night. You too. Bye.
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