Brett Keane and Muslim Talk religion, science and politics

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hey, hello everybody, welcome toProphet.
Daniel has spoke on research channel.
So I'm just using Restream today, just experiencing to see
how that goes with Restream. So hopefully my stream shows up
and I've done all the right things and you can hear my voice
and everything. So I will just need to check a

(00:29):
few different things here and I'll post a link for you guys to
join me here.
Nah, not that one. So in my link this can add

(01:00):
channels to the stream. I'm not sure about that.
So the link is here and I'll need to make a poster.
Shouldn't I do kind of attract people?

(01:31):
Prophet Daniel has spoken. Should be all right, I suppose.
Yeah, I'll keep it as it is. No, I should do something.

(01:56):
Prophet Daniel has spoken, so let me make something
interesting for people to kind of hop on and grab a chat with

(02:20):
me. No,

(03:14):
OK, it looks good. So I'm going to page 4.
Just exit this on page 4. I'm not impressed with the
fonts. Just bear with me while I re

(03:35):
kind of find a suitable font. OK, this one looks good.
I'm pretty happy with that. So PNG page #4 okie dokie.

(04:11):
So what I'll do here is just upload that.
I'll be all set. Prophet Daniel has spoken OK.
OK, that's all set guys. And you can really access the

(04:33):
link that's on there and join in.
So that's all set. Might have to open and keep this

(04:58):
so the sound seems just all right and throw like myself and
join me live here. Remove that join me live and hit

(05:35):
it and then I can stick it up sothe message is pinned for the
link is pinned if you guys want to join and yeah so let me know
guys if you want to jump in it'sa straightforward thing.
I was using video ninja. I suppose it was, but people had

(05:56):
trouble hopping onto my channel,so I'm just exploring Restream
here so I can. No, I think it's very
straightforward. You just have to click the link
and join the backstage and we can have a chat on what Profit
Daniel has spoken. I'm not happy with the video
quality as such. It's all right.

(06:20):
I mean, that's what you get for free.
And if I pay probably comes up with a better video quality and
I'm not even happy with the kindof lighting it's throwing out
here. What's gone wrong with this?
Let me. ISO.

(06:52):
Does ISO help? Just increasing the ISO a little
bit here so I'm not in the dark.I think increasing ISO
definitely helps. I can see here it's improved
quite a bit, so I'd go with 400 ISO tonight and

(07:32):
as follows. This is prophet Daniel has
spoken research channel host andI host this channel.
There's a lot of material on my channel.
If you guys want to take a look,there's lots of videos and lots
of lives that I've done so have a have a grasp of what I'm what
my message is, what I'm standingfor and cool pick up a chat with

(07:55):
me. I'm a cool guy.
I want I don't believe in disrespecting people on my
channel. So I want to have a cool chat.
It's all right if nobody knows everything, even I don't know
nothing, you know I mean, I do know some things that's why I'm
here. But but when I was writing my
first book, I've made lots of mistakes in my first book, lots

(08:15):
of blunders, you should say. But the book is intact on the
subject for sure. But there's other things that I
was writing in my book and I've made some blunders, not lots, I
should say, some blunders. So far, I'm editing my book
again and I've stumbled on one of the blunders myself.
Like I was like, wow, did I write that?
So everybody does mistakes. Don't be shy.

(08:37):
That should not stop you from having a conversation, having a
cool conversation. I know people, you know, they
behave like mundane, belittling people for what they don't know.
But that's just insane. It's not a good behaviour.
Sam, according to science, what came first, the earth or the
heaven? Please answer.

(08:58):
I think the heavens came. I mean, if you see, there's a
subtlety here because the earth also has its own heavens, so so
to speak. So the Quran says the planet
earth has its own heavens, right?
Its own skies and there is like the major sky out there, right?

(09:18):
So the major sky obviously comesfirst and then the planet gets
made and the planet has its own heavens or skies, right?
So that's the Quran. That's the that's what the Quran
says to me. Says to me, I learned this from
the Quran and my first book. I'm going to show you my first
book, which by the way, I'm editing, all right.
So OK, I don't want to show you that just yet.

(09:42):
It's all right. So the book has been there on
Amazon for quite some time now for eight years.
That's when I wrote for the first time eight years ago and I
did not get a chance to edit it.So that's my first book.
I'm I'm a non-english speaking guy.
So you could imagine that was not the easiest of the projects

(10:03):
that I did. But eventually, I mean, English
people did read that. By the way, some of my friends
here who are English, who are fond of reading books, they read
those, they read that particularbook and they were quite happy.
You know, they could understand everything that I was writing in
that book, for example. So I mean, it's all right.
So according to the Quran, and the Quran says God made the

(10:24):
major heavens first, and then hemade planet earth and he made
the planetary skies or planetaryheavens later on, you know,
after he makes the earth. If that answers your question,
Sam, why don't you just click the link and just have a chat
with me about it so we can have a cool chat about it if you

(10:45):
want. So hit the link.
It's a different platform that I'm using for the first time
here, so I want to know how it all goes.
So jump in, jump in, my dear friend.
Science says the heavens came before the heavens.
Do you agree? The heavens came before the

(11:06):
heavens. Look, language is a human
invention. Obviously human beings build
language. Excuse me, We construct language
and language must be used in a context, and it does get used in

(11:31):
a context. So when we talk about heavens of
the earth, obviously heavens of the earth got made later and
heavens, the overarching heavenswere made first.
So if that's what you mean, thenI agree with the science says
the heavens came before the heavens of the earth.
I agree with you. So Quran 229 and Quran 41 two

(11:56):
says earth before the heavens. That's what I'm trying to tell
you guys. Sam, pay attention to what I'm
saying to you. The Quran talks about the
heavens of the earth, the skies of planet Earth, and that are
atmosphere, ozone, ionosphere, plasmosphere, magnetosphere,

(12:22):
radiation belt, and the sky of gravity.
So these are the seven skies, planetary heavens that the Quran
talks about, the seven skies that planet Earth has.
All right? And the Quran also talks about
Asimovatul Ulur, which means themajor skies and the major skies
have been there before Earth wasmade.

(12:44):
Stop babbling. Bring up the verse.
Let's see who's line. You are trying to be smart at
this point in time. And that's not a good start for
you because I've written a book on it, OK?
So pay attention to what I'm saying to you.
Pay attention. I'm saying planet Earth has its

(13:06):
own skies. The seven skies of the planet
Earth, they are planet specific.They're planet specific skies.
All right, so I'm trying to bring up the words that you're
pointing at. OK, so stop trying to be rude,

(13:28):
Sam. And I wouldn't appreciate it if
anyone is rude and I can get rude as well.
But I don't want to be a rude person.
So try to be a sane guest and berespectful and we can do a good
job. All right, How to share a screen

(13:48):
from this here window? Window.
OK, one of the windows I want toshare here is just bear with me.
Just bear with me while I'm doing this, OK?

(14:16):
So where is the Quran? OK, OK.
Why is it coming in this manner?What about this?
What about that? What about this?
What about that? OK, I'm happy with this.

(14:42):
OK. I'm also happy with this.
OK, so what's the question now? Read the Quran more than you
show the verses. Take it easy, my friend.
There's no hurry. We've got abundant time until
you die and I die, right? So we've got time all the time

(15:03):
that's there. And we can always come back and
we can always verify things. So don't rush things, OK?
This is the worst that you want me to bring up here.
It's verse 29 from chapter 2. So what about it?
Why don't you join me here instead of just typing?

(15:25):
Just join me with your footage. Be be a man, be a be a belong to
the civil world, belong to the modern civil world and show up
with your footage. Let's have a chat.
And I, I don't want to, I don't want to press on you.
I mean, if you don't want to come on a footage, that's also

(15:45):
fine. Come with your audio at least,
because that'll help me have a good conversation with you.
Come on your audio. What's this here?
OK, those are two sources. OK, what do you want to talk
about then Bring the worst. 229 says all was created on earth

(16:11):
that went to the seven heavens. I read the Quran more than you
should. Was Allah calls me the worst of
the creatures Is the road. Allah calls you the worst of the
creatures. Did Allah mention your name and
call you by name and said you'rethe worst of the creature?
I can't, my family is sleeping. That's fine.
Allah calls you the worst of thecreatures that did.

(16:34):
When did? When was the Quran revealed like
1400 years ago? And how old are you?
And why would Allah call you arethe worst of the creature by
name? That's just unconscionable.
I can't, I can't just come to terms with it.
What are you even trying to say?Why do you pick on something you

(16:56):
know like unto yourself? Why?
Why can't you? Why can't you have some self
respect and some some dignity toyourself?
And why do you want to become target for something that Allah
doesn't really call you by name?Why everyone shaky Nafina, if
you will I come Cheryl Barrier 6chapter 6 verse 6 from 98.

(17:20):
So you are a people of the book and you are a disbeliever from
the people of the book, the people of the book.
When the Quran says people of the book, Quran treats them as
believers. But there is also disbelievers
among the people of the book. So if you are one of those who
would like to disbelieve, then you are a disbeliever.
And that's that's just the way it is.

(17:42):
But if you want to believe in the Quran, then you become a
believer. Or if you want to believe in the
say, for example, the truth, youwill be a believer.
And obviously, as the things go,Muslims can also become
unbelievers because if they don't really believe in the
Quran and they just tend to the Quran with lip service, God does

(18:04):
not count that as belief. By the way, if you're not aware,
God does not count the faith by lip service as genuine.
So God wants you to really believe and follow of the
doctrine, the commandments in the in the book, and only then
you will be considered a believer.
So as such, lots of Muslims, cultural Muslims are also

(18:25):
disbelievers, just like you would consider yourself to be a
disbeliever in a cultural context.
And you know, I call a people ofthe book are Christians and
Jews. That's correct.
But now after the Quran, even the Muslims are the people of
the book. If you want to now look at the

(18:46):
Quran, historically speaking, just when the books were given
to the Christians, the the disciples believed in them,
right? But then the later Christians
invented things in the Gospel like they were not part of the
gospel, but they invented. And things like that have also
happened in Islam. People have invented a lot of

(19:08):
hadith, for example, that directly contradicts the Quran
and they go on to believe in those sort of things and and not
believe in the verses of the Quran and do what the Quran
wants them to do. So the Quran would naturally
treat such people as disbelievers in the book, right.

(19:28):
So if that makes sense, people in the book are Christians and
Jews. Yeah, I just answered that bit.
So why don't you join me here. This I'm I'm pretty happy with
this, like Restream, it's not bad at all.
Pretty happy. And I've got some debates coming

(19:49):
up guys. So I'm getting some traction
with some debating channels likeobviously, you know, back to the
Earth before the universe. OK, so we read the verse here.
It says here's the one who created for you all that's on

(20:11):
the earth. Jamie And the way that I
translate this is like in a ecosystem, like all together in
a system, you know, to to operate the earth.
Then he looked at the then he looked at the sky and he

(20:34):
fashioned the sky of the earth in seven functional layers will
be Kaliesha in Alim and he's well versed with every creation.
So basically the Quran is telling when the process of
making the earth began. So God created material which is
like clay to build the earth in this part of the world in the

(20:57):
solar system. So God is building the earth and
in and he collects all the material.
The the process of accretion happens.
Like the proto earth is formed but it does not have the skies
yet. It doesn't have its atmosphere,
it doesn't really have the othersky layers, the functional sky

(21:17):
layers that God talks about and he those sky layers come once
the earth is assembled as in thematerial.
What happens is the sky layers emanate from within the earth.
And for that you'll have to, I'll have to take you to wait a

(21:38):
second. I'll come back to that verse,
but let me let me just pull you out this verse so so you can
sort of grasp what I'm talking to you around.
So in this verse here, 2130, Godsays, don't the disbelievers
see, like here, you might be thedisbeliever, right?

(21:58):
You might be the person who's unable to see the evidence.
So God says here, don't the disbelievers see that the skies
and the earth, the skies and theearth were joined together as
one unit? Like when God made the earth, it
was just one unit. It was a ball of clay, right?

(22:19):
And then he split them apart from Takana Hummer.
So he brought about the skies from within the earth.
He brought about skies of the earth from within the earth.
So these are the seven differentlayers, sky layers of planet
earth. And then he says once the skies
came up, it started to rain. When the atmosphere was formed,

(22:40):
it began raining. And we and God says from the
rain, from the water, we made life.
And why wouldn't you believe so?It's very simple.
So God made God brought forward the accretion of clay into a
massive gigantic ball. And all that process resulted in

(23:01):
smoke that we see in, in, in 41 passage, God says he looked at
the sky and it was smoke and he fashioned it into an atmosphere,
right? So once the atmosphere was
formed, it began raining. And when the rain hit the earth
from that mixture of water and clay, God began forming life.

(23:25):
So this is this is the exposition of the planetary
creation that is in the Quran. OK, now I will go to the verses
that you want me to go in 79 andcheck it out.
What are you trying to say there?
7927 to 30, where is it? 7927 to 32, right?

(23:55):
OK, now God is asking here, are you people a difficult thing to
create for God or the sky that he has fashioned, right?
So indeed God says the planetaryskies have been a real thing to
design and to bring that into fruition.
Like for example, we see Mars lost its atmosphere, its skies.

(24:20):
So once the planet loses its skies, life loses the
opportunity to to to be born on the planet, right?
Because the sun is a a dirty ball beating fire, and it rips
off the possibility of possibility of life forming.
So who's joining here? OK, my friend is joining here.

(24:47):
How do I let him in? Hello my dear friend Brett, How
are you doing? Hey, you remembered me.
That's true. Hey.
How can I, how can I forget you?How can I forget you?
I'm having a cool conversation here today and this is my
subject. This has been my first book that
I wrote like 8 years ago. And I'll show you the book if,

(25:09):
if that's OK. I can show you the book guys.
So Amazon, I go on Amazon and I type ancient astronomy.
All was narrative. So this is the book Brett I
wrote my first very book that I wrote.

(25:31):
OK. And this is my first very book
that I wrote as a result of as an outcome of discussions that
I've had with my atheists friends here in Australia, for
example. And after years of talking to
them, and I ended up writing my first book, which is called
Ancient Astronomy, our last narrative.

(25:53):
And luckily Sam is here with me chatting with me about this
book. And I love it because nobody has
chatted to me chatted with me about this book so far.
So it is brilliant that Sam is here and I can talk to him about
it. And my second book obviously was
a take against evolution. And it's here and I explain how

(26:15):
origins of life happened on Earth.
And that's my that's my son on the book page, the cover page,
that's my son when he was. Born Well, can you make the
image bigger so we can see it? Yeah, sure.
You. You know how to click the tab

(26:35):
that makes it take up the screen, right?
Just for a moment, OK, Just justbear with me.
Just bear with me, OK? For example, this right, So
that's my second book I wrote. I wrote this book because my
friends here, atheist friends here, they gave me a book titled

(26:59):
Why Evolution is True from JerryAkoyne, a biologist in the
University of Chicago, for example.
That book was fantastic. I just fell in love with this,
with that book. And at the end of it, when I
finished reading that book, I knew to and I had a response to
that book, right. But I didn't end up writing that

(27:21):
response as my first book. Obviously, I wrote my first
book, which was a big question looming here on me from my 8
years friends who were whom I was interacting with.
So therefore I ended up writing my first book as ancient
astronomy and then this book andthen my third book.
Guys, it might scare you a little bit, which doesn't really

(27:43):
show up here for some weird reason.
I don't know why, but if I did go on my name, for example, OK,
I can't call on my name from here, can I?
OK, the third book is called as Sharia for Australians.

(28:09):
So that's my third book. Guys, it might scare you, so
don't be afraid. There's nothing wrong in it.
All right, so that's my third book.
It basically explains the Mosaiclaw and the basically the
Abrahamic law, the law of the Quran, the Sharia that God gave
to Abraham and and Moses and Jesus and Muhammad.

(28:29):
So that's here in this book. All right, so those are my three
books. And so why is it called surreal
law for Australians for. Because I believe Sharia, the
law of God, the law that God proposes in the scriptures is
actually helpful to societies inthe modern day.
And it can actually solve a lot of problems in in the Western

(28:52):
society, for example. So God is basically concerned
with equality and mutual rights between men and women.
God wants to make sure that, youknow, rights are being awarded
to women and societies are just equitable and there's justice in
societies and compassion in societies.

(29:12):
This is what God wants for humanbeings.
He wants good for human beings. So he guides them on a pathway
to attain justice, compassion and fairness in societies.
So this is what is God's law allabout.
It's not about chopping hands that you all the time hear that
might happen in Saudi Arabia, for example.
That's not that's not everythingabout Sharia.

(29:33):
That's one of the penal codes that you can, you can unleash
on, you know, really, really badcriminals, right?
You can unleash like for example, we have death penalty
in, in America, for example. So, so we, those are just the
penalties, but Sharia is a larger doctrine of legal code

(29:53):
that ensures justice, fairness and compassion in societies.
So. Well I I can understand that,
but isn't the the system pretty much relies on who is leading it
though? And it seems like anytime the
Sharia law was set in place it'salways someone who's cruel and

(30:15):
uses it for the most terrible matters.
Kind of like socialism and communism.
So yeah, I mean, you know, I've got Sam here who's chatting.
I'm not sure if you're looking at the chat, Brett.
I got to really engage this guy here, Sam.

(30:36):
Yeah, I see him out there. No, how can I include chats here
so that even you can see chats? Brett, do you have any idea?
Brett, how can I include the chats from my YouTube on to
restream here? Well.
Oh, they are. They are, they are here.
OK, I just displayed it. OK, gotcha.

(30:59):
So Sam, I mean Sam, I advise you, my friend, my dear brother
in humanity, you can be civil when you chat with me, you can
be respectful and I'll be respectful to you.
And that's the way we can do things, right?
OK, so let me go back to the Quran.
So 7927 it says God is asking a rhetorical question and says you

(31:23):
know the sky of the earth that he has created was not an easy
feat. So the Mars lasted Mars as a
planet lasted skies. So as a result, life could not
be sustained on Mars. And then he God becomes
succeeds. You know nothing can frustrate
God. Once God makes a plan, he will
bring that plan into fruition. So God went on and built earth

(31:45):
and brought about its skies thatnourish life on planet Earth.
And that's what we find here. A Rafa asked Samukhi Hafa
Salwaher, he raised its atmospheric sky.
All right. And it says in this atmospheric
sky which is which in the Quran is labeled as homosphere.

(32:09):
So the homosphere directly is responsible for the brilliant
light we see lit on planet Earth.
Suppose if you were to go on moon and moon does not have the
atmosphere, so you will not see a bright day like you would

(32:29):
experience on Earth. So this sky, homospheric sky
contributes to lighting up or the the planet like in a in, in
a gigantic bulb, right? The brightness you see the
brightness and you're able to navigate and you know, have your
daily business done during the day, right?
So that's what Quran is talking about there and it says well all

(32:52):
about the valley. And while this is happening, the
earth is being spread out. The continents, the different
continents are forming. So this is what is called as
plate tectonics. So while God is shaping the sky
and lighting it up like all withall its splendor, which is
basically the hemosphere Rick sky of the earth, or you can

(33:15):
call that as atmosphere. So these are the things that I'm
explaining in my book. If you were to go back to my
book, this book. So these are the sort of things
that you get out of this book. All right, So how?
Come, Sam does come in and chat with us.
I don't know, he he just feels comfortable chatting and that's
fine. I mean, I don't have an issue
with it. So those are the sort of

(33:36):
explanations that you will find in in my book, Sam.
And God says while he's designing the sky hemosphere,
he's also spreading out the earth and casting different
continents. So that's plate tectonics.
And then and then God brings outof the earth its pastures.

(33:58):
Well, Jabal Arsaha Now when God is making these different
continents, he's also a buildingmountains.
So when different continents form plate tectonics, it gives
rise to the mountains. So that's a very good
description of how God made planet Earth and its skies.
Sam, if you have found this interesting and I'm sure you're

(34:20):
learning now because you are trying to pull verses out of
context and you are trying to tell me that you know, there
were skies came first and Earth came later because you didn't
really understand the context. That's why if you go into my
book, for example, if you're going to my book, you will find

(34:40):
those things clearly explained to you, the the process of
planet Earth and the creation ofplanetary skies, or it's all
clearly laid out in this book. So at Sam, you left out the part
about this poem. Why?
Hello El Cambalo. Hello El Cambalo.

(35:02):
And I'm showing you the Quran verse.
Read the Quran verses. Stop adding to the Quran, man.
I'm a scholar of the Quran. And if you are, then come and
have a debate with me about how I'm getting things wrong.
But if you are not, then try to behave yourself.
Please try to behave yourself because I'm the scholar of the

(35:23):
Quran. I know the language of the
Quran, right? And I've written books not 1/3
and then I've translated the Quran.
So I've got a lot of scholarshipin my in my basket.
So what are you even talking so?Mr. Daniel, can I offer a
suggestion? Sure.

(35:44):
One of one of the things a lot of us podcasters and people who
go live, we usually don't pay attention to people who don't
even have avatars or videos of their own on their channel
because usually it means they'vecreated a soccer account just to
harass you and get attention. Got you, got you.
I will heed to your advice and Iwon't engage with Sam until,

(36:07):
until and unless he comes on board here with us and at least
comes with his voice, if not, ifnot through his video footage.
So Sam, hop on, come with your voice and leave your voice
imprints here on my channel and we can have a good conversation.

(36:27):
So. You're looking forward to Sunday
2:00. Sorry Brett, I missed that.
You're looking forward to Sunday2:00.
Absolutely, Brett. I am looking forward to that and
I'm so thankful to you and Brett.
I was just wanting to ask you, Brett, do you will you host the

(36:48):
debate on your channel? Because as you just said,
Maverick has video ninja, brother Maverick has video ninja
and that will make it difficult for me to stream that at my end.
If what I suggest is if you can stream it like with your with
your stream yard and let me and brother Maverick stream it

(37:13):
simultaneously at our end, then that'll be something something.
Unfortunately it wouldn't be good for you or Brother Maverick
because Brother Maverick has almost 100,000 subscribers on my
main channel. YouTube locked it up.
Apparently they don't like to hear about Jesus.

(37:35):
My live shows and on my secondary channel, it does have
live ability, but it doesn't have very many Subs on it.
And Brother Mavericks are inviting you to his big channel
to have a discussion, so that would benefit you both.
As far as what I do, whenever I can't stream from somebody

(37:56):
else's, I just wait until the video processes.
Brother Maverick always gives mepermission to get a copy and
then I can put it on my main channel as well as the radio.
So you'll be not only heard on Brother Maverick, but you'll
also be heard behind hundreds ofthousands of people on My GOD TV
radio broadcast. Gotcha.

(38:18):
So yeah, thank you for that information.
So how do you get permissions from Maverick to then later on
stream it on your channel? Like how, how, how, what is
involved? Like how do you do that?
You'll go in and you'll simply he's he's a lot like me in the
sense where he'll say hello, howare you doing?
I believe we've talked before and he'll probably, you know,

(38:40):
get to know you a little bit more and and all you got to do
is ask. Do you mind if I grab a copy of
the video later to post on my channel as well?
He'll say sure, no problem. Yeah, but how, how is it done?
That's my question to you. How is it done?
Oh, you're talking about software to download a video,

(39:02):
huh? Is that what software?
To download a video. OK so I need a software to
download a video from YouTube and then post it onto my.
Channel, I have an online browser thing where you don't
have to download any software where you can just put the link
in of the video and then download it and whatever bit
rate you want. Here, let me get that for you.

(39:25):
I also got something else that you may enjoy since you like
doing live shows. I'll show you that in a minute
after I get to the downloader. All right, here we go.
Send me, send me across that information on my e-mail.
I do appreciate that from you, Brett.
Don't you have a private chat? Private chat.

(39:47):
Oh no, it looks like it's. Hold on a second.
Let me. I think you do.
Let me see if I can post it here.
Yeah, I do. I do have a private chat here.
Did that do anything for you I just posted?
OK. You I, yeah, the link came
through. Thank you.
All right, all you got to do is when you go to that page, you're
going to see a thing where it says put the YouTube Earl here,

(40:10):
give it a moment after you hit convert, and then it'll give you
a download button. It takes like less than 5
minutes to download an entire video.
Yeah. Gotcha.
Gotcha. Thank you so much.
Awesome. It is.
It is, and I wanted to share this information from you with

(40:32):
you. You know the STD, it's called I
suppose. Just bear with me.
STD Sir, you might want to go tothe hospital.
That sounds horrible. Why?
Well if you got STD's. Just bear with me, Brad.

(40:52):
Just bear with me. About that, Brett just got a

(41:16):
call that I had to attend. That's all good.
You didn't get my joke, did you?Oh.
I didn't get your joke, I'm sorry, what was that?
I said, Sir, if you got STD's, you need to go to a doctor.
I didn't I I still didn't get it.
What is? What do you mean by STD in a in
a in a different way? You mentioned STD's and STD is a

(41:45):
a reproductive disease in America.
OK, what's what's? You do.
You get it from doing dirty things.
You know what I mean? You get it?
See a doctor. Oh, you.
My jokes are dry. I'm sorry.
I actually was trying to say to you about standing for truth S

(42:08):
FT. It's not STD, it's FSFT channel.
Oh yeah, I've spoken to him before.
Yeah, I've spoken to him before.What about it?
So he is wanting to host me for a range of debates, like he
wants me to debate with quite a few different people.

(42:30):
Oh boy. During introductions the debate.
Thanks for the. Look, I, I like him a lot.
I do. But some of the people that he
has, his people debate are a little on the rough side.
You don't have a problem with that.
The the rough side. You know, people, people who

(42:53):
don't respect Muslims, who will be mean and nasty, you know,
throw out of ISA stuff, that kind of thing.
I'm just saying he's a good guy.It's just some of the people he
puts you up against that may notbe very nice.
Want to see something cool though that you'll really enjoy

(43:14):
when you're doing your live shows?
Look, I know to handle people. If, if, if that makes sense to
you. I can handle people and I don't
really take their nonsense personally.
I I do know that people are capable of throwing a lot of
garbage at you and I know the man is done.

(43:36):
I'm I'm, I'm a strong dude. Like I've got, I've got a big
heart. So I do.
Yeah, but I wouldn't be considered a friend if I didn't
warn you though, right? Absolutely.
I mean, I you are my good friend.
There's no doubt about it, Brad.And it's, it's God made
relationship, you know, some relationships God makes, you
know, from, from heaven, God of the heaven makes from heaven.

(43:59):
And once you know, I got to tellyou the story as well.
Once I was like drifting from church to church in a place
where I live here right now. And I came across this gentleman
in the church. I was, he was like, the service
was going on. Like I went initially, I went to
a different church and there I got told off by the pastor

(44:21):
there. He didn't like me.
So I got, I got like booted out.I was sent out, you can say, and
then he literally left me at thetable.
He was having a conversation with me.
You don't believe he left me like raw, like, you know, he
just left me and went away. And then I waited there for a

(44:43):
couple of more minutes, but he he never came back.
So I got up from there and I went to a different church.
So when I went to a different church, I met this beautiful
person. I can say his first name,
obviously Michael. His first name is Michael the
Angel. So I met this beautiful person
and right away it all clicked like we became friends right

(45:05):
away. And since then we have been
doing Bible studies together. It's but it's been now a couple
of years now. So it took us two years to
finish Luke, the Gospel of Luke,and we just started off with the
Gospel of John and we've been friends ever since, like real
good friends. We visit each other, You know,
my kids interact with him. You know, he, he comes down and

(45:27):
you know, it's beautiful to, to,to be friends with Michael.
So yeah, some relationships. God of the heaven does it like
magically, it's magic. So it, it, it's not, it's rare,
but it does happen. And I believe with you it's
another such relationship. Well, I appreciate the

(45:50):
compliment. I wouldn't say I'm some kind of
Angel or Saint or anything, but I I do look out for people.
Yeah, gotcha. I I don't mean the literally,
like he's not an Angel, a littleAngel, but an Angel lick, you
know, so to speak. Oh, I.
Get you, man, if you were sitting here telling me that a
winged entity came down and was talking to me at a cafeteria

(46:10):
table, I'd be scratching my headOver here, Sir.
Yeah. So how are you doing the I mean,
these days, what's happening with you?
Well, I'm doing pretty good. I actually posted your link in
your private chat. A second one.
This is really neat. I don't know if you ever seen my
videos where I have conversationwith artificial intelligence,

(46:33):
but it can talk to you like an actual human being.
You can talk to it about the Quran and all that, and it'll
have discussions with you may like that.
Whenever people don't come in like Sam out there, he's hiding.
Yeah, yeah, okay. I will check those links out
once we are done talking SO. All you gotta do, just quick

(46:59):
instructions. When you open up that second
link, you'll see a microphone. You click it.
The moment you do, the AI will start talking to you.
It'll say hello, how are you, what's your name?
And then you talk to it like youtalk to a person and it'll have
a full blown conversation with you.
Brilliant. I think that's what something

(47:20):
Justin did on his channel. He was talking to AI about
Christianity and trying to defeat the AI guy.
I think it's something similar, correct?
I believe the Justin guy that you're talking about, I actually
provided him the AI. Oh.
OK, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.

(47:43):
So. Yeah, yeah, I really.
Do you get along? Do you get along good with
Justin from Deconstruction Zone?Oh, deconstruction zone.
The Justin I'm talking about is TTOR.
He's a Christian, really cool guy.
Deconstruction the atheist. You're you're asking me.
Yeah. That guy, he does me like you

(48:07):
got done by God logic. He doesn't want to put me on the
mic with him. I there's atheists that are
afraid of me because they know that I know they're game.
I mean, I would be, I would be really, really wanting to engage
him just in deconstruction zone.He agreed on his live stream, he

(48:30):
agreed with me that he would debate me like a timed like in a
timed format of debate. But ever since then, he has not
really come back and answered mye-mail for some weird reason.
And one of the guys on his channel came to my channel and
wrote a comment. And he said if you get 50

(48:51):
subscribers on your channel, I will go to Justin and give him
$50 and ask him to debate you. And once I got 50 subscribers on
my channel, I wrote back to him.I said, hey, go and tell Justin,
give him $50 and tell him to debate me.
But yeah, I'm waiting for Justinto respond to me basically, so

(49:13):
we will see when he responds andwe can debate.
Well, $5050 isn't really much toa atheist who already has like
tons and tons of subscribers. A lot of these atheists make a
great deal of money on the Internet, so.
Yeah, for sure these fans, yeah,the, the fans like the reckless,

(49:37):
the blind and they, they just munch on the content that people
just throw at them blindly. And this is what Jesus says.
Jesus says if you are blind and you follow blind person, both of
you will fall in a massive pit. So.
Right. People like being a part of a

(49:58):
group or a click that doesn't have any moral obligations or
rules. As far as I know, Islam as well
as Christianity and some forms of Judaism have strict moral
laws on how we ought to treat one another.
And atheists, they don't want anything do with that.

(50:27):
So what? What do you think about the
future in America? How, how, how, how's it going to
look like it down the line? Say, for example, 10 years, What
do you think the social interactions would look like in
America? Because it's all heating up on
the Internet at the moment. And like when I was in America,

(50:51):
10, how many years ago? There was 15 years ago I was in
America and I found the place tobe a bit calm, respectful.
There were atheists, not that they weren't, they were
atheists. Some of my friends at workplace,
they were atheists, but they were respectful and calm and
trying to reason out things. But now I see on the Internet

(51:14):
it's all blown away, like blown out of proportion and people are
being mean to each other and they speak to each other
derogatorily, like pejoratively,and there's no respect as such.
So what do you see happening to Americans 10 years down the line
on this, on this platform of like religion and atheism?

(51:36):
I don't know if YouTube is goingto last very long.
YouTube seems to be interested in having.
I don't know if you knew this, but I actually did a show about
this on my radio. YouTube has been putting a lot
of AI as commentators. AI has gotten so good that now
it can run podcasts and actuallylook like real human beings

(51:59):
making videos. Now imagine this.
Imagine YouTube puts out all this AI which they're working
on. One of them's called the Gemini
and the VO 3.0. If they can get that and get rid
of bloggers who are, how shall Isay, not about following terms
of service and community guidelines, that's easy money.

(52:19):
All money they make off their AIgoes directly into their
corporation. I think in the next 10 years in
America, artificial intelligencewill take over jobs, the
creativity department, and that's pretty much what we'll
deal with. Interesting.
I mean, I'm sure you've come across videos that are made

(52:41):
essentially with AI. Like I see some of the Islamic
channels where that have like hundreds and thousands of
subscribers. These are these are real time
subscribers like Muslim people throughout the globe and they
the content that they are given to absorb is all built on AI.

(53:01):
It's not a real person. There's no real voice.
The voice is AI and people are somehow getting used to
listening to that content that people produce overnight based
on AI applications. And I'm sure what I how I see
that unfolding in the future is people will lose appetite to

(53:21):
listen to an AI voice. I mean, just bear with me.
Bear with me, Brett. I've got a phone call coming
here. I need to receive.
All right, We'll be back with you in a moment.

(54:44):
I'm sorry about that. It's been going.
The day's been going busy for mewith a bunch of calls.
Well, I heard what you were saying about how you don't think
that you think that eventually people get bored of AI.
I'm not really sure that's the truth because there's a lot of
guys out there who are actually,there's a guy recently who wants

(55:07):
to make it legal to marry his AIgirlfriend.
So there's people out there thatare so involved.
They're wanting to actually have, you know, relationships
with these things and you know why they see it as a benefit
for, right. I mean, explain that.

(55:29):
Go ahead and explain that. Well, with an AI, an AI can be
encouraging. It won't condemn you or judge
you. It won't look for mistakes to
hate on you about. It's never going to be the pain
in the ass girlfriend or the theguy who you know is constantly
stabbing his buddy in the back. The AI won't do that.

(55:53):
It's nice, it's friendly and it gives people basically that that
weird disconnect that they have with, you know, normal people.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know basically how things will work

(56:13):
out in the future because I'm not the best of the persons that
predict things. And but what I'm saying is
people love natural things. People love organic things.
You might feed them artificial things for a time, but they
would soon realize the difference between artificially

(56:34):
being fed and the real, the realfeel, the real human feel.
So I believe people who are watching all this garbage put
out by AI would eventually turn around and go to real people to
have real time experience. So I, I don't know, I've got
mixed feelings on those sides. So we'll we'll have to wait and

(56:56):
see how how that goes. Well, I'll give you an example
of something. As you probably realize by now,
young people spend almost 8 to 10 hours a day playing video
games. They get them self immersed in
these fantasy worlds and all that.
I think about it, if you have a,a character that's right next to

(57:16):
you or something that looks lifelike that is able to talk
and all that, see these people, they have two options according
to their perspectives. From what I've I've read up on
this and done some research, a lot of these people don't feel
like they can get the real thing.
So they feel like their only option is the AI.
That makes sense. If you're a person who's popular

(57:38):
and you have a lot of people to talk to, sure, you may not get
addicted to it or anything, but what if you're not one of those
type of people? What if you're an introvert?
Go ahead. Well, just just for a test one

(58:00):
of these days, you might want tojust just for the fun of it,
turn on that AI that I gave you and try talking to it and you'll
see that it you'll definitely find that it would be a lot
nicer to you than 90% of the people you're probably going to
run into on YouTube. Gotcha.

(58:21):
The thing is, you know, you might have heard this Bruce Lee,
Bruce Lee speak. The boards don't don't hit back.
The boards don't hit back, right?
So you heard of it? Yeah, I, I believe he also said
that about bricks as well. Whenever somebody was showing

(58:42):
off and being arrogant, Bruce Lee said, yeah, but bricks don't
hit back. You know, I, I remember that
Bruce Lee was one of the the finest and greatest martial
artists of all times. But think about that.
I mean, if if you got an AI that's willing to have a
discussion with you, how many times do you want to experience

(59:04):
getting, you know, stabbed on bysome idiot on the Internet or a
total stranger when you can havea nice conversation with an AI?
Yeah, I totally get your point, but you know this real job to be
done like hi Smokey, you're welcome here.
You want to you want to join in here.

(59:24):
So this is easy to join thing it's restream.
Just hit the link in the that's in the pin.
And if we can have a conversation with Smokey.
So what what's really happening Brett, is we have to somehow
deal with the real world. And I have had tremendous amount
of preparation like in the past years, in the past 2025 years,

(59:46):
I've been really thinking a lot about the religious truth, if
there is any to religion at all.Like so I have researched great
deal. I've studied these texts.
I've written on these texts quite significantly.
And there is not a point that people crib about in religion

(01:00:09):
that I don't have an answer to, but I know when to even give or
share that answer with someone who's deserving.
And I do learn from you as well.Your tips are handy as well.
So there's no point engaging with people who are just
trolling on the comments section.
If they don't want to make a appearance of them with either

(01:00:30):
voice or video footage, there's no point to engage them.
So I am learning and eventually I want to.
I want to be able to meet the giants.
Like you saw me yesterday, right?
I was waiting for Forest Walk I from the line to give me an
opportunity to have a conversation with him, but he's
been tilted ever since. I've had my first conversation

(01:00:52):
with him some time ago and he wouldn't let me talk to him
again. But eventually, one day when my
channel grows, he would have no option but to face me because
the pressure on him will mount my fan following.
Would I, would I would have my fan following go and mount that
pressure on Forest, Warkai and Dan from all of these atheist

(01:01:13):
experienced guys. So eventually they will have to
face me. So I'm just on a journey right
now and I'm, I'm preparing myself to face the most vilest
of the guys that are available there.
So I, I don't really back out. I, I, I have the temperament, I
have the heart to take their, take their abuses and give them

(01:01:35):
back. At the same time, because I'm,
I'm also skilled, I can give them back.
So. So it's only a matter of time.
Take my take my friend, Brother Maverick or Smokey St. that you
were talking about this a littlewhile ago, trying to invite him
to the room. Smokey Saint's got a decent
amount of subscribers and Brother Maverick definitely has

(01:01:55):
a lot. But every time Brother Maverick
calls people out, sometimes they'll come in, but they
usually drop personal attacks and then they run.
Smokey, he's got a lot of Subs and he'll call people out and
he'll challenge him. They'll say let's do a debate
and a lot of people don't show up.
It's just recently that a guy named Kevin started showing up

(01:02:17):
to actually have a discussion with him.
That's the problem with YouTube.There's a lot of how shall I
say. I hope you don't mind me using
this kind of words, but sissies,pussies out there, you don't
want to have any kind of deep discussion.
It's sad. They like to talk, but they
don't want to debate the person face to face.
I see what you mean. What what?

(01:02:39):
What is the difference between Kevin and Smokey?
I mean how do they differ? Like what?
What is the difference between the two?
Well, if you're talking about spine, it's a matter of a person
being committed to what they view and what they believe in
and all that. Smokey has very, very strong

(01:02:59):
beliefs in his faith and he's willing to take anybody on.
Kevin, on the other hand, he's, I'm still trying to figure him
out. He's kind of incoherent and uses
what we call circular logic. Do you know what that means?
Yeah. But is, is Kevin having a

(01:03:19):
different doctrine to that of Smokey?
And and if it is different, how is it different if Smokey is
here? I would encourage Smokey to come
in and have a chat with me as well.
So. But you can explain, Brett,
Yeah. Well I would love for Smokey to
come in, he'd probably be more articulate on his views and his
beliefs. But I believe the big argument

(01:03:41):
as of now between him and the Kevin guy.
I could be wrong, but I Smokey, like myself, believes that you
can't just go and do whatever you want and expect God to just
let everything slide that you could actually, you could fall
from grace and all that as whereKevin, he believes that no

(01:04:02):
matter how many Twinkies, Doritos and old women you kick
out in front of a bus, you can get away with it.
And that's it's kind of like nihilism if you think about it.
Hey, Smokey. Hi, Smokey.
Welcome, welcome and go ahead and thank you Podium.
How's it going? Good to see you.
Yeah, good to see you. Go ahead and tell me the

(01:04:24):
difference between your doctrineand Kevin's doctrine.
Well, I think I actually Brett kind of nailed it.
Like there's a little, there's alittle nuance with Kevin.
He's, I don't know, it's, it's, it's a little hard to describe
it. I have to get into really the
weeds to kind of explain some ofthe soteriology to you.
But you know, essentially there's kind of this, this
school of thought that you know,in, in short of it, you're saved

(01:04:48):
by just what your brain state is, your fuzzy feelings towards
God. There's no, there's no
expectation of practical application.
There's no sanctification as we would call it, which is, you
know, kind of that ongoing work of the Holy Spirit to make you
more holy, sin less, you know, be sanctified to turn away from
sin, to have a different attitude towards sin, to repel
against sin instead of adopted and, you know, be weak to it.

(01:05:12):
So, so Kevin has an interesting position.
It's not quite free grace. It's something called oh, SAS.
And I don't know if you're familiar with that term.
It means once saved, always saved.
So, yeah. So the idea is that if at one.
And the reason Kevin's a little different than the free gracers

(01:05:32):
is because he actually does believe sanctification needs to
be there. Sanctification will be there for
someone who is saved and justified.
They will repel from sin. They will turn from sin.
But he also believes that if they sin, there's no possible
compromise to their salvation. He believes that if someone

(01:05:53):
commits to a life of sin, that they'll basically be
repetitively chastised by God until they come back to the
faith. And if they.
And his position is really weirdbecause he basically makes it
seem like God is irresistible, that if God is working on you in
sanctification, you will turn back.
And then other times he says, no, you can resist the Holy

(01:06:14):
Spirit and you can choose to notturn back.
And then he'll just kill you early and you get a fast track
to heaven, you know? So it's a very weird, bizarre,
he basically ends up taking on and he hates Calvinism.
But in a very weird, ironic twist, he adopts basically every
single primary point of Calvinism to hold on to his

(01:06:34):
doctrine. So that's why you saw a lot of I
don't know if you caught the conversation I had with him a
few nights ago, but that is a lot of what it came down to is
I'm fine debating fatalistic Calvinism.
That's fine. I'll do it.
But don't tell me you're not a Calvinist when you clearly are.
I can't get anywhere. You know, like at least be

(01:06:55):
honest with what you are and then we can talk about your
determinist position. But he just keeps denying it.
He just keeps saying, Nope, I'm not determinist.
And then says, oh, Yep, can't resist the Holy Spirit.
He's basically gonna gonna persuade you.
But by persuade, he really meansforce.
So the Holy Spirit's going to force you into compliance, which
then of course begs the question, well, why doesn't the
Holy Spirit just do that to everyone?

(01:07:17):
You know? I mean, that's, you know, I
mean, it's, it's, it's kind of, it's just a bizarre, odd,
contradictory, nonsensical fringe doctrine of Christianity
that he's adopted. And he can't defend it clearly
because he's just all over the place.
So. Are there many Calvinists in
America like? Dude, Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, sure. Yeah, a whole bunch.
You know, Presbyterians, pretty,you know, decent sized church.

(01:07:39):
There's several different branches of Baptist reform, you
know, denominations and reformedtheology.
So yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a decent chunk.
Determinism is a, you know, it'sa very low mental effort
theology to grasp onto. It's it's real simple.
It's real straightforward. You don't really got to think
much about it. You said it's so accurately,

(01:07:59):
it's a low mental. What did you say?
Low mental. Lowest mental effort possible
type of theology. That's very accurate description
of how that doctrine survives. It's low mental effort.
That's the most accurate description that anyone can
give. Low mental effort.
I like it. Yeah, it's and it it is for

(01:08:22):
those that tend to want to be pretty lazy about their
philosophy of the nature of God's relationship to reality,
which by the way is a pretty complicated topic.
And you know, I'm OK with peoplethat say, hey, I don't really
get it. You know, there's kind of this
deterministic language. But then also I believe in the
importance of free will. And they're kind of wishy washy
and they're not really hard stance where maybe they do

(01:08:44):
believe in determinism, but theydon't believe you have to
believe in determinism to be saved.
I don't care about those people,but some of these really extreme
hyper Calvinist nut jobs like Matt Slick or Jeff Durbin or
James White, you know, these guys are promoting their idea of
super hyper deterministic fatalism, you know, where

(01:09:05):
everything is inexorably destined to be exactly as it is.
And when you, you know, decide to kill someone, you know, it's
not because you decided to do it.
It's because God decided for youthat you were gonna do that, you
know, So it becomes a, yeah, it becomes a very, very, you know,
you do challenge and compromise the very nature of God and

(01:09:25):
theology itself, which you thinkwould be a red flag to most of
these hard determinist fatalists.
But, you know, I don't know why they just don't, you know, still
grasp onto it so. Wow.
I mean, I thank you for a very, very good overview of Calvinists
and yeah, I mean, you're, you'reyou're providing me with verbage

(01:09:49):
a lack probably in this area. So I I kind of like it.
But I, I won't bore you with oneof the arguments, but I really
hooked Veckel's brain with an argument I had a while back.
I, I told him, I told him monthsago, I said, Beckel, you come to
bait me and I'll prove you're a fatalist.
I'll pull the fatalism right outof you.
I'll show that you're a hard determinist.

(01:10:11):
And and he didn't believe me. He's like, no, Smokey, I'm not
that uncompatible list. I'm soft determinist, blah,
blah, blah. I say, I guarantee it, I'll pull
it out of you. I know it's in there.
And I brought him on the show and I gave him an argument he
could not escape. Like his, his core theology was
set around a very specific standard that as soon as I draw
a different correlation and a different set of circumstances

(01:10:33):
and the difference between secondary agency and primary
agency, oh, he got stumped. And you know what he did to bail
himself out? Jumped right into full blown
fatalism. I pulled it out of him after
all. In fact, I need to go pull that.
I need to actually go pull that clip and put it up for people.
That's a it's pretty catastrophic to Calvinist I.
Mean can you can you show me a link here in the private chat?

(01:10:55):
Can you please share me a link I.
I think I should be able to go pull it the, the determinist.
And by the way there there's kind of like 2 key components to
it. And just to make sure it's not
kind of ignored in this, there'sthe type of determinist, hard
determinist that kind of believes that like, say, every
single, see, this is complex. I, I don't want to get into

(01:11:16):
this. I'm just going to tell you the
different types of hard determinants.
So there's the hard determinantsthat is like the full blown
fatalist that believes that every single thing that happens,
God just pre programmed to happen.
Every decision, every manifestation, every blowing
leaf, you know, every moving rock and every single thing that
happens is by direct, you know, pre predestination,
predetermination by God to make that thing happen, that he said

(01:11:36):
all the matter in motion. He knew how it was.
He was going to make threats happen exactly that way.
So, so he's micromanaging reality.
But then then there's another type of hard determinist who is
not hard determinist about that.They don't, they don't invade
secondary agency. They say human beings still have
free will, but they'll say humanbeings have free will except

(01:11:57):
when it comes to salvation. And see then they, they're a
salvific hard determinist. So they're not hard determinist
fatalists like the people that say every single little thing is
micromanaged. They believe in secondary will,
but when it comes to salvation, they say, Oh no, regeneration
precedes faith. Holy Spirit has to work upon you
before you will ever get to the point to believe.

(01:12:17):
And that's part of their Tulip program.
T stands for Total Depravity, which means you're incapable of
coming to God unless God moves on you individually first.
OK, interesting. Just to make that clear.
Yeah, but yeah, I'll. God, What, what video was that?
You know, I'm going to have to go look for it.
I'm not sure which stream it was.
Is the one I had posted with Beckel.

(01:12:37):
I think it was the viewer's choice.
No, it was before that. I'll have to go look for it.
I need to go find it. I'm not sure exactly which
stream it was. It's sometime in the last few
weeks. You got his name in the title.
No, I should be doing that, Brad.
I know I get lazy about it. How about Calvinism?

(01:13:00):
I don't think, no, I don't even think it was about Calvinism.
It was, I think it was just an open topic show.
I think it was one of just the general open topic shows, I
think. Or no, it wasn't.
No, we were talking about something specific, sweetheart,
do you remember what it was? I was talking about something
specific. And then Beckel ended up coming
in and I think we kind of reworked the converse.

(01:13:21):
I'm going to have to look for it.
I don't know. I don't exactly remember so many
of these hours and streams, all these arguments, all these
people. Smokey, you just made me feel
like I don't know English. What do you mean?
Like I could, I could not speak like you just did.
So there is a big learning curvefor.

(01:13:43):
Me just learning a little more practice.
Yeah, I think so. I think I have to talk to you
guys a lot more than I do so I can actually absorb things,
absorb the speech making and from you guys and learn some
things from you guys, seriously.Well, that's cool, man.
Yeah, whatever. Yeah, I'm glad to help.

(01:14:04):
Sure. Cool.
Awesome. Yeah, part of the problem is
I've I'm not English. Basically, I don't come from an
English background and I still speak in my native tongue at, at
my at my place. So the yeah, that sort of adds
to the difficulty of like articulating like just you did.

(01:14:27):
I mean, you did a fantastic job explaining these things, which
I'm really even now having difficulty to say that again,
like for example, I can't, I'm not able to easily say
deterministic, fatalistic, Calvinistic and all of that sort
of stuff. Like, well, you just.
Did you just did? Can I ask you something, Daniel?

(01:14:53):
Sure. The last time we talked, you had
said that you're interested in in getting people saved.
And obviously it's a different type of concept or maybe it's
similar to Christianity. But do you also believe in the
concept that you could anger Allah enough to where you will
lose whatever Whatever the concept of saved is to you, can

(01:15:17):
you lose it? Yeah, sure, that can happen.
It all. It happened all the time in
Israel, In ancient Israel, God gave them promise after promise,
but obviously with expectation. Even when he said to Jeremiah,
he said to him, this new covenant is of restoration and a

(01:15:41):
new relationship that God is going to have with the children
of Israel. But that with so much
assurances, God eventually brought them back to the Holy
Land. But that wasn't good enough for
them to be disciplined to God. And eventually they, they
continued to do things that weretypical of them, angering God

(01:16:04):
through disobeying his prophets.And they eventually angered God
when Christ comes along and theyfall all over again.
So God had to punish them all over again.
In some of the AD, he, he brought the Romans to punish
them. So with God, it's always, I
mean, in, in Israel, in ancient Israel, we have many examples of

(01:16:26):
how God deal deals with people, especially the Hebrews.
We have great examples of what God did with them, how He dealt
with them, how He was merciful to them, how He was like
fatherly to them. But their reckless business of
disregarding God's prophets earned them the wrath of God,

(01:16:49):
and God had to use his strong arm against them instead of
aiding them, which He did to David, for example.
God aided David with a strong arm, but unfortunately for
Hebrews, they invited the strongarmor of God against themselves
and because God was angered of of their, you know, behavior,

(01:17:12):
their bad behavior. Right.
Well, it sounds like you and I, I, I won't speak for Smokey and
all that, but it sounds like youand I are on the same page when
it comes to this. I don't believe that God is some
kind of hippie sitting up in theclouds is going to take a bunch
of nonsense. I think he's an FAFO type of
God. You aggravate him and continue

(01:17:34):
to push you're in, you're going to end up paying for it.
And a lot of these people mindedO SAS people and free gracers,
they speak the total opposite. They think they can just walk
all over God and God's people and get away with it just as
long as they claim or identify as being saved.

(01:17:54):
Self-proclaimed, obviously. Yeah, I don't, I don't know why
people would devolve to have those fantasy opinions.
Because we see, we see God is incharge and he does a lot of
damage annually. Like in the world.

(01:18:15):
We see a lot of damage happen tothe world and we learn in the
Scriptures even Jesus goes on tosay those people that got
killed, you know, don't think them as any greater great
sinners than yourself. So, so he gives this impression
that the sins of human beings attract punishments from

(01:18:38):
Almighty God, right so. Yeah, yeah.
That's how I view it, even though I'm not a Muslim and
stuff. That's how I my perspective when
I read the Old Testament on to the New Testament, I see a God
who will endure. He'll be patient, He'll show
mercy. But if his instructions continue

(01:18:58):
to not get followed, somebody's getting squashed.
Yeah, I mean we have a great example in in a lesson in Sodom
and Gomorrah, for example. They did something that was
displeasing to God and quite unnatural and out of the mercy
you can say the Provinian grace of Almighty God is that he sends

(01:19:21):
them warners. Lot went to them and he warned
them he was he resided among them and he taught them not to
do the bad behaviour and to reform, to amend and he offered,
he also offered them his daughters like these.
This is how you rightly do it. But they were so blinded and

(01:19:43):
once they found good looking angels like in human form enter
Lot's homes, they wanted to to do the bad business with them,
with the angels. And that was the limit of it.
Like, you know, the angels had come to punish them.
They didn't even realize that because the angels look too
good, too tempting for them to go and do the bad business with

(01:20:06):
them. So the the angels do what they
came to do. They rescued Lot and his family,
except for his wife, and then destroyed the townships.
So since. Do.
God does move to provide his grace even in the face of a sin.

(01:20:27):
For example, God is not like, I will immediately punish you.
That's not God Almighty. God never immediately punishes
people. He lets them have time to
contemplate to, to find a recourse to amend, to reform.
But when they don't do that, ultimately God gets away with
them. You know he, he, he brings

(01:20:48):
punishments to them, right? Yeah, that's where my view lies
as well. That's how I see it.
He endures and he's patient and he puts up with a lot of
nonsense, but eventually if he thinks that the person's not
going to make the right decisions in life, they get the
spanking. Yeah, very true.

(01:21:11):
What what, what, what do you think, Smokey?
I'm, I'm, I'm keen to know what do you think about about these
things that we just talked. Well, like, let me give me an
idea like something specific like like that you kind of want
to know. Like we just had a conversation
about how human sinful behavior would attract God's punishment,

(01:21:34):
and God's disciplinary action comes down.
So what do you think about it? I think, yeah, I mean, I kind of
agree with that. I also think that some of that
might be more covenantal based and you know, Scripture does,
you know, talk about chastisement, but the
chastisement that God delivers generally is reserved for quote

(01:21:58):
UN quote, his sons, which is, you know, essentially.
And you there's a couple ways tolook at this, but I mean, just
to make it, you know, kind of short and kind of simple that
the idea of manifestations of difficulty in your life that
you're actually able to persevere through are intended
for basically a form of character building.

(01:22:19):
You know, that God will not necessarily, you know, jump in
to, you know, save you from any possible negativity or bad
circumstance, but he's going to be there to carry you through it
and do abide with you through it.
And those who have a covenantal connection to him have that type
of promise. Paul says things like, you know,
all things work together for thegood of those that love him and

(01:22:40):
are called according to his purpose doesn't make such a
promise for just the general person, the unbeliever, you
know, who you know, rejects God.So there's there is, you know,
clearly and this is all throughout Scripture, an
intimate connection between the believer and the divine that is
unique to them, that is bridged by faith and fidelity, you know,
commitment that is not possessedby those who are just secular in

(01:23:03):
the world. Now God of course is still
sovereign over them, but His relationship with sovereignty
over them is completely different dynamic.
And I don't think God is in any way necessarily could be, but
isn't necessarily more obligatedI think to be definitively and
directly reaching out to Him. Now, I believe He does, but I

(01:23:24):
don't believe He's obligated to,but I believe He does just out
of nature of him being good and merciful, that He does attempt
to reach everyone however He canwhere they can, where he where
he believes he can reach him. I believe that he does act
dynamically through human beings, through those who are
sanctified to do the good work of bringing people to salvation.

(01:23:46):
And I think that's part of his good pleasure is to not just do
it himself, but to do it in a communion with mankind, in a
relationship, which I think is the teleology of all of reality
anyway. So I don't know if that helps
clarify. No, I can't agree more on your
closing statement though. I agreed with it.
Go ahead. Go ahead, Brett.
Well, I was going to say I agreewith Smokey as well.

(01:24:09):
If if God feels like someone is going to or God and his and his
nature understands that someone has a potential to be able to
change. Sure.
But I I think what me and Mr. Daniel correct me if I'm wrong,
is getting at is what about the person who already they were

(01:24:29):
going in the right direction, but then they deliberately, they
intentionally do things that irritate God and they simply
won't change what will be the final outcome.
That's that's what we were getting at.
We were we did imply that he's patient and doer show mercy and
try to carry someone through it.But we're talking about the

(01:24:51):
people who are, you know, bastards.
Yeah. The answer to that is Romans
one. Yeah, absolutely.
You know, giving them over to a reprobate mind.
You know, there's, there's a certain point, just like with
the Jews, you know, Jeremiah hadto watch the the glory of God
depart the temple. It didn't happen, you know, just
because the first Jew and the camp decided to, you know, take

(01:25:11):
up idolatry, You know, like God was there.
He was merciful, He resided withthem.
He sent the prophets, he sent warnings.
He tried to work with them. He tried to get him back.
But at a certain point where there was just a critical mass
of no turning back, God judged them and God departed.
And I think it's really the samewith us too.
I don't know what limit each person has to where God or the

(01:25:32):
Holy Spirit will depart them, but I do know this.
We shouldn't be trying to test it to find out.
What do you say, Brad? Did you get?
Did you get the answers from Smokey?
Yeah, I think that he answered it as usual.
He's articulate and to the point, yeah.
Absolutely. I agree.

(01:25:53):
Yeah, I, I basically we, we all agree on this.
So that's that's a good agreement to have right between
Muslims and Christians, like a Muslim and a Christian.
It's it's good. It's basically good agreement.
I also agree with what Smokey was saying earlier too, about I
think a lot of people choose this.
Christian nihilism is the name Igive it.

(01:26:15):
I, I decided to invent that wordbecause I think there's people
out there who don't want to showcompassion.
They don't want to help out the poor.
They don't want to, you know, give drink to the thirsty and
food to the hungry. They don't want to do anything.
They just want to simply convince themselves that as long
as they believe, they can get away with murder.

(01:26:37):
Literally. Yeah.
I mean, I mean, wonderful to to have some form of an agreement
on the teleological side of God's dynamic with men.
And it is very, in my opinion, it's very justified position to
have that sort of a relationshipbetween man and God, because

(01:27:03):
ultimately God is the king. He is in charge.
He has given, he has brought us into existence.
And as such, if human beings go and cause malevolence, it was,
it would not, it would not befitthe majesty of Almighty God to,
to let that happen forever. He has to put an end to it.

(01:27:26):
So it's it's good. No.
Anything else on your mind? It looks like we're at a
standstill on that one. Look, it was fantastic today and
I loved it. I loved you guys coming on
board. And maybe if we, you know, we, I

(01:27:49):
mean, I don't mind coming here every day, for example, and
having a, having a chat with youguys.
But yeah, I I also encourage youto come up with topics that we
can chat about and if it need not be always I.
Do have one? I do have one query to present
to you, unless you're wrapping up right now.

(01:28:11):
I mean, I can listen to the query and we can talk about it
tomorrow, if that's OK, Smokey. Yeah, that's why.
Yeah, I know. I'll give it to you real quick
and just, it's just a couple quick questions.
Just kind of branch into it and then maybe we can branch into it
more than, or maybe, you know what, let's just save it.
It's fine. You know what?
Because we'll get into it if I do it and let's just save it.
I'll come back. It's fine.

(01:28:32):
Just remind me. Remind me about, you know, just
remind me. Just say the nature of the Cron
and I'll I'll I'll remember. Nature of the crime Is it Nature
of the crime Nature. Koran, I'm sorry, nature of the
Quran, the. Nature of the Quran OK OK, we'll
come back to yeah, just. Just remind me of that and I'll

(01:28:52):
remember what it is. You guys are breaking.
The rules though. The rules?
It's only the show's only been going an hour and 29 minutes.
You know that you can't turn it off until it says 3 and the top
number. Brett, when Brett came on, when
Brett came on and interviewed me, we went for five hours.

(01:29:16):
He interviewed me for five hours.
Credit. We had a couple breaks in
between, but yeah, five hours. Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness,
I I did the. The time I did the abortion
stream, I went 12 hours. Oh my goodness.
Look, I do understand Americans are very tough.
Like, physically tough, anatomically tough.
I'm an Indian. Like you have to be.

(01:29:39):
You need to have some grace because you don't find any
Indians in MMA do. You yeah, that's a fairpoint.
That's a fairpoint. I'm like I'm wrapping up in the
editing of video you. Smoke.
You do what I'm. I'm sorry.
Well, you said you did a 12 hourshow or an abortion.

(01:30:00):
Would you mind if I got a link to that so I could?
You wouldn't mind if I put that up on the radio?
It. Is.
It is back from the JP Uncut days.
Just pray New York when he was still that Channel.
I will have to go back and dig it up out of the Cone Club cult
archive, but I'll look for it for you, Brad.
I'll pull it up and I'll find itpretty quickly.

(01:30:23):
I think I'll send it over to you.
Wait, All right. You sure you want to close out
already, Mr. Daniel? Look, I have another hour before
I actually go out and you know, pick do the pick up things here.
So in one hour, let me let me say this, let me request this

(01:30:43):
from Smokey. It's time for me to have lunch
now. So I'll grab my lunch and I will
let you and Brett interact with the nature of the Quran and the
nature of the Gospels and the Bible.
So I can listen to you guys for quite some time on how you
discourse the subject. And then I'll wrap it up.

(01:31:05):
I'll wrap it up and come back tomorrow and discuss about it,
or I will. I might even pitch in, right?
So I'm giving it to you. The floor is yours.
Go and have an interaction on the nature of the Quran, the
Gospel, and the Bible. Go ahead.
What is the nature, Smokey? What is the nature?
Yeah. So to begin, I guess I'll start

(01:31:25):
with kind of like the distinctiveness between like the
Bible and of course the Quran. Now both are essentially
colloquially referred to as the word of God.
Now the instantiation of the word in God or it's inscribing,
you know, in our it basically inthe Bible or what we have in its

(01:31:46):
original language and also in the translated text that we
actually hold, this is an instantiation.
This is basically an energy manifestation.
This is one of the things I kindof like about Eastern Orthodoxy
is philosophically they do draw a distinction in God between the
energy and the essence. The essence of God is what he
basically actually is. The energy is what instantiates

(01:32:09):
in reality. So what instantiates in reality
isn't really fully and completely absolutely Him as He
is because he does not fit in this reality because he's
transcendental. So what we see manifest is
basically an energy or an instantiation of his nature or
His essence. This is how we draw a
distinction between basically what manifests in reality and

(01:32:30):
what God actually truly, legitimately is.
Which God is invisible, God is spirit, God is not not actually
something that can be contained or confined in our finite 3
dimensional reality by nature has to be transcendental.
So the entire essence of God is transcendental.
Therefore cannot, you know, correlate directly and
immediately into our reality. So it manifests is something

(01:32:52):
else other than just the full essence.
And that's where we call the theenergy distinction.
I kind of like the way that the Orthodox explain that and they
think they do a little bit better job philosophically than
the Catholic principle of divinesimplicity, which I do think has
its merits in its own right, butalso has some shortfalls.
So anyway, getting back to the central point, the nature of

(01:33:13):
these two texts, both claiming to be the Word of God.
However, the nature of the Word of God and Christianity and the
nature of the word of God in theQuran are two radically
different things. See, we understand the word of
God as being God, but also, you know, being distinct from the
Father, you know, because we have a Trinitarian generally way

(01:33:35):
of thinking with some Holy Spirit where they all want God.
But of course, they are also sharing in also a unity and also
a distinctiveness kind of in thethe same way.
And we see this concept concept actually emerging at the very
beginning of the Bible in Genesis where it talks about
Adam and Eve and they're joined together and they become one

(01:33:57):
flesh. And that that actual verb,
they're used in terms of the one.
I'm sorry, the word, I'm not sure it's a verb.
I apologize. I think it's a noun that verb
for the one or the is, is actually the the word for unity.
Oneness in unity, not oneness insingularity.
That's what's used to talk aboutAdam and Eve and their merger.

(01:34:18):
I don't remember the exact Hebrew word.
We can pull it up in the interlinear.
And if you go to the Shabbat, Deuteronomy 64, where God
introduces himself basically to the people, it's one of the most
well known verses that every Hebrew child would have
described. In your heart, you know, hear, O
Israel, the Lord your God is 1 This this is a very interesting
phrase because here in this verytext you have again the usage

(01:34:41):
again not of this word in absolute singularity of one, but
of oneness in unity is the word that's chosen to be used here
and one of the most famous, you know, introductory verses aside
from his introduction to Moses of being I am.
This is one of the most famous of God's personal introductory
verses, you know, to his people,which is the Shema and I hear we

(01:35:03):
have basically what is the titleor word for God?
It's Elohenu and it there's there's three different uses.
They use the the same word twiceand one of the other words for
that means God once. So so they basically say God
three times in this verse and then follow it up with basically

(01:35:26):
what saying he's one, but they say it in a way where it's
oneness and unity, not oneness in absolute singularity.
So even the structure of the Shema is very particularly
interesting in this regard. So in our instance, when we talk
about the word of God, we understand one primary thing.
The word is distinct to God. There is some sort of

(01:35:50):
distinctiveness to God, but it also is God.
This is John 1. One in the beginning was the
word. The word was with God and the
word was God. So this is an idea basically of
something that seems at our level of understanding
paradoxical. You know, it seems nonsensical,
but really it is paradoxical. It's a seemingly contradictory
truth, and this is what it revealed in the 1st chapter of

(01:36:12):
John. So this is how we reconcile the
idea that the word of God is uncreated and also is God, but
is also distinct of God now thatwe understand that.
And that's where the Trinitariantheology really functions very
well and explaining the nature of the Gospel and the scriptures
that we hold. However, in in the Quran side,

(01:36:33):
on the Muslim side, there is a little bit of a dilemma.
And part of that dilemma stems stems from the idea of what
really indeed is the nature of the Quran.
See, because the Quran to the tothe Muslims, they will claim
that the Quran itself is uncreated.
Now that's a problem because only Allah is uncreated.

(01:36:54):
So if the Quran is uncreated andthe Quran is not a law, now
there is a partner to a law, something distinct of law,
something separate from a law. And this leads to a bit of a
philosophical quandary as to howto explain the existence of
something that is both uncreatedand not a law.
So where the Christian Trinitarian system explains this

(01:37:17):
very cleanly and concisely. And Islam is a bit of a
challenge to explain the nature of the Quran in relationship to
the divine who is the only one who is uncreated.
So that's my whole kind of nature of the gospel and the
Quran type thing, if that clearsit up at all.
I hope I kind of got that out ascleanly as I could.

(01:37:40):
Now that sounded clear, Daniel. Did you while you were getting
here? It looks like Fruit Loops, I
guess, is what you're eating. Did you hear what Mr. Smokey was
asking? Yeah, I mean, it's fantastic.
I mean, Smokey is such an art, such a person with this
language. You know, he has this promise of

(01:38:00):
language, articulating language.He did it beautifully.
Like, I mean, I couldn't talk for that long on that subject,
but I I heard him and I want youto respond to him while I finish
my lunch and I'll get in. All right.
Go ahead, please. Well, I I'm a Christian.
He's going to. He's going to digest both his
food and my argument. But I would like to, Brett, I

(01:38:22):
would like to hear from you. What do you think about all
these things? You know what's what?
He said, I'm, I'm on the same wavelength when it comes to the,
the nature of God and, and how he works and how the, the Bible
is the word and all this and through him and all this.
As far as the Islam concept thathe pointed out, though, that is

(01:38:42):
very interesting. I hadn't, I hadn't actually
thought of it this way and that's why I was hoping you'd be
able to respond on that. I get you snarfing down some
food over there. Your belly's hurt and you're
hungry and all that, but this was really more of a concept for
you, Brother Daniel. Excuse me, I'm munching on my

(01:39:06):
food. I am, I am listening.
I'm just going to mute for a second, guys, but I am
listening. I just, I'll be right back.
I am listening though. OK, I think Smokey really did a
very marvelous job in in laying that out.
I did not hear the initial bits.I was in the I was in, I was in

(01:39:27):
the bath. So I didn't hear what he
initially said, but I kind of get get a sense of what he said.
That is the debate about is the is the Quran created word of God
or it's uncreated? And I'm aware that people talk
about a debate and going back tomedieval times when early

(01:39:50):
Muslims have the subject conversed.
And I recently thought about it.I did not know why early Muslims
even if about if if a group of them.
I kind of decided that it was uncreated word of God.
Like, I wouldn't actually have that view personally, because I

(01:40:15):
know the origins of the Quran were very much historical and
even the doctrine and the council in the Quran was very
relative to the events that tookplace in the middle of the 7th
century. So there were a lot of

(01:40:35):
characters that prompted the words of the Quran.
So the words of the Quran obviously came about in the
purview of those characters playing their part in that part
of the world, and therefore it had to be.
In just just real quick, real quick, just to check real quick.

(01:40:58):
You do live in America, right? Sorry.
You do live in America, right? Just checking real quick.
I don't, I don't. I live.
I live in Australia. OK, you're good.
OK, you're fine. I just, I just want to make sure
because in some places in the world, if you say the Quran is
created, they will kill you. I just.
I just wanted to double check. So, you know, just just before

(01:41:21):
you were kind of maybe going down that road.
I just wanted to double check for your sake.
I love you, brother. I don't want you to have a fat
one. Yeah.
So you know, I'm just saying so.No, I don't necessarily see why
extremists should have a free run the way they do.
They cause a lot of damage to religion and God, but you can't

(01:41:44):
help it. But yeah.
So my opinion is the Quran were the words God Almighty
communicated prompted by some ofthe actions of the of the of the
people in 7th century in Arabia.And that's precisely why it had
to be in Arabic because God was communicating to them.

(01:42:06):
If God was communicating to Hebrew people, he would
obviously communicate in Hebrew language.
But if God was communicating to a different people, I think
Noah, we don't know what Noah's language was.
So whatever that was, God obviously communicated to Noah
in his language. And I think people, Daniel,

(01:42:27):
prophet Daniel himself in Babylonian, in Babylonian
captivity was speaking Aramaic, even though Arkadian was the
lingua franca in the court. I think Aramaic just I think, I
think it was the transition. I think Arkadian was limited to

(01:42:50):
the court activity and then people just spoke Aramaic as the
lingua de franca. I think the biblical prophecy.
You just checked it. You do recognize that the Quran,
the actual Quran, what the Quranactually is, is more than just
what's in the pages, right? Or do you think that that that
is its entirety? I think the Quran is the recite,

(01:43:18):
but it's basically a recital that was given to Prophet
Muhammad, right? So he, he, those were the words
that were. No, no, I get that.
But like when we talk about likethe word that is the Quran, like
is it where Allah like there's more to it and just we just got
a piece of it. Like there's more that's out
there to like angels and other and you know what I'm saying?

(01:43:38):
Like there's more out there thatwe didn't receive.
You get what I'm saying? I understand what you mean.
So there's a concept in the Quran called the Umul Kitab, the
mother of the book. So the mother of the book
contains a lot more information like it.
It basically documents everything that happens on
Earth, for example. So all the documentation of all

(01:43:59):
the activity on Earth gets documented.
And this book is preserved with the angels, like, you know,
wherever they are stationed in this celestial space, they are
the ones who do the record keeping of the deeds of people,
the events, the changes that they have to bring to earth and
all of that sort of stuff. Everything that happens to the

(01:44:21):
earth, who's born, who dies, allthe records of planet earth are
kept by angels and the law primarily.
Once God made human beings, he he drafted a law for them.
Like he also made it an instinct.
So IA facet of that is found in every human being.

(01:44:42):
Like we have conscience, so thatconscience is a facet of God's
law for human beings. So inherently we know what's
right and what's in what's wrongand the law at the law itself.
Like obviously from more than knowing wrong and right, there

(01:45:04):
has to be a sudden doctrine withwhich people conduct themselves
by. And this doctrine is found also
found in that book, like Omul Kita, for example.
And it's the same source that all which the angels always use
to communicate to Noah, to communicate to Abraham and the
other prophets before Abraham. I'm sure you know, I'm aware of

(01:45:30):
the fact that the Bible jumps from Noah to Abraham directly.
But in the Quran you also have these other nations that that I
call interim nations between Noah and Abraham, whom God also
communicated to. So every time the spirit came
and communicated to the prophet,so it referred to the same

(01:45:52):
source, the mother of the book. So it the Angel would bring
information from that book and give it to people.
Obviously, the Angel would do the translations because the
Angel is aware of people's languages and the Angel would
translate, refer to that source and translate that to the
prophet because the prophet had to speak in the tongue of the of

(01:46:13):
its people. So that's how we get the same
message but in different languages.
And even now when I go back to the Quran, I can see the shreds
of Hebrew directly in the Quran.So even when the story when God
introduces to Moses yehey usher,Yehey I am the one who I am for

(01:46:34):
example, so it comes in the Quran in this fashion in the an
Allah it says indeed I am the the real God.
So Allah is just the word for the God in, in in the Arabic
language. So the I am Anna is still found
in the words when God spoke to Moses Anna in the Anna Allah, so

(01:46:57):
it says indeed I am the real God.
So, so I can see how the Angel would bring in information from
the same source and communicate that to prophets in their own
respective tongues, because the prophets have to then educate
their people. So that's why we find

(01:47:18):
revelations being given in different languages to different
people. And obviously the mother, the
mother of the book is a reference, but a lot of the
dynamic that's related to its people in a historical context,
it's still coming. Like how do you say this

(01:47:39):
impromptu, impromptu giving, impromptu directions from?
And the Angel is capable of doing that.
So upon the orders of God, whenever God orders the Angel,
the Angel would come and give specific guidance prompted by
God upon the direction of God. So that's why it's called the

(01:48:00):
Word of God, because the Angel is an agent of Almighty God, and
when he brings the word, that's God's word.
So if that makes sense, I don't.I don't subscribe necessarily
to. So is your idea that basically
Allah's speech is a non existentuntil he instantiates it in

(01:48:26):
reality? Like until he puts it in
reality, the speech doesn't actually exist.
You can say so other than what'sin the source.
The source, the mother of the book, has a basic doctrine

(01:48:47):
outside of the is that. Uncreated.
Is that uncreated? No, it is created.
When he is created. When human beings were created,
obviously if I say I am speakingso I can make my speech, we can
say that I'm creating my speech.There's no wrong in it, but I

(01:49:09):
can also, it's not something that I have like for example,
what I mean to say is I can continually create my speech,
unlike if I created, say for example, planet Earth and planet
Earth is created and it's there and it's seized.

(01:49:30):
But my speech, I can continuallycreate my speech, right?
So I can, I can continue to perform my speech, but once I
create planet Earth, it's created already.
So in that way, I would segregate creation from
performance. So I would I would consider
speech as the category that belongs in performance rather
than creation. So to me, if I would like to

(01:49:53):
articulate to you the the title of the debate where the Quran is
a created article of God, I wouldn't necessarily agree with
the title like I can, I can, I can still debate it and I can
clarify my position of what it what creation means and what
performance means, if you know what I mean.

(01:50:18):
I think so I just, I'm I'm a little confused, I guess in
terms of its IT, in terms of itsrelation, in terms of what its
nature actually is, in terms of its eternality.
I guess I'm a little because like in in and I don't know how
this really works, maybe necessarily in Islam.
I haven't looked into this particular part of the
philosophy too much. But like in Christianity, you

(01:50:40):
know, our God is timeless, whichmeans he, he has no chronology.
There's no contingency of time space upon him.
So his in his mental operations,his speech is unique only to him
because there's no chronology toit.
So like when you and me talk, there is a linear progression to

(01:51:00):
our speech. We start in a place, we end in a
place and it is, you know, ultimately leading to a point.
It's very linear and it progresses with time, but God is
time less. So it's not directly 1 to 1
correlative in terms of his speech.
So what you have, when you have the pages of the book, when you
have the Quran, you have what was given to Muhammad, you have

(01:51:21):
basically what is an energy, an instantiation, a manifestation
of what already exists. Because otherwise you have a God
who basically is coming up with it as he goes.
You almost have a very open theist type God, you know, that
doesn't really know the future. And I, I mean, are you an open
theist like it? Am I maybe missing the mark here

(01:51:43):
or? No, I'm not at all confused.
I think there's a few things different things that to
accommodate. For example, you I would say
when God made the planet earth, that was the creation of God and
we know this creation of God hascome in time, even though we
have we relate to an eternal God.

(01:52:04):
So God is eternal, right? But that does not mean his
creation is also eternal or had to be eternal, no.
No, no, yeah, that's not what I'm saying.
No, I'm not talking about that because that's centered in
reality. I'm talking about like, let let
me reframe it. His decision to create reality.
See, there was see, like in terms of him being a timeless

(01:52:28):
deity, there's never a point in time where he what he was
deciding or had not yet decided to create reality because he's
timeless. So that thought in his mind to
create reality is a timeless thought.
There's no beginning to it. There's no end to it.
It just it just is just is. It's just, it's a, it's a
decision that just is I. Disagree with that premise.

(01:52:51):
I disagree with that premise. Well, then you'd have to
associate some sort of time space to God if you if you do
otherwise, because because now you need to give them some sort
of chronology. I mean, God is a being right.
We understand God is a being right.
I'm a being right. So I can, I can speak new things

(01:53:14):
in the future, which for example, I have, I might not
have contemplated them today. That does not undermine my being
or my powers. So I can articulate new speech,
say after a year that in any waydoes not undermine my
capabilities, my powers and my and who I am, my being, my

(01:53:38):
essence, that does not contradict or or.
Daniel, Daniel, Daniel. I think if I'm wrong, correct me
Smokey, I'll or I'll try to hit it from a different angle.
Do you believe that whenever Godthinks something, it becomes it
is reality? It just that simple.

(01:53:59):
Just by the mere thought, God makes things reality.
There is a difference between God's thoughts and God's
intentions of bringing things into reality.

(01:54:20):
I'm all ears, Sir. Means you agree with me.
It means I need to hear more. I need some elaboration.
Smoke, you want to say somethingbefore I I begin talking?
No, no, no, go ahead. No, I I'd kind of, I'd kind of

(01:54:40):
hit my, you know where I was at with it.
I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out because here's my
issue is like to me, anything OK, just to be like like really?
And I'm not trying to make a this so like I'm not trying to
be like aggressive or assertive like a beyond measure here in
any way. But like, this is to me like
teetering on a dangerous edge ofshirt, like in terms of like

(01:55:04):
associating Allah a little too closely and his speech with the
speech of, of, of mankind, like kind of saying that he
experiences mental States and attributes and chronology, just
like his creation, I think is dangerously teetering on that
edge of shirk. And that's what I'm trying to
kind of like get at here. Like in terms of just getting

(01:55:25):
around kind of this idea of yourbelief in a God that either is
basically trapped to some form of chronology or is time less.
I guess that's where I'm struggling here.
So how? How do you think it will?
It's tantamount to shirk if we if we were to attribute

(01:55:46):
chronology to God, Well, not in.His being.
Not in his being, but in his creative abilities.
Not in his own creation, but in his creative abilities to come
in, in a format of in a framework of chronology.
How do you think that is tantamount to shirk?
I don't. I don't understand this.
You're saying he has. You're saying he has abilities

(01:56:10):
that are created like he has attributes that he creates about
himself that are non eternal. Well, I don't.
I don't necessarily say that. Daniel Daniel sounds a little
bit like the. I believe the word is
anthropomorphic. Is is the issue I'm hearing?

(01:56:34):
No, I I don't. I don't really understand why
you are tying those things up. And if God does certain things
in the future, how does that? How does that to to even to have
an idea of God is doing something new which he hadn't

(01:56:55):
planned before? How is this idea tantamount to
shirk? Can you explain?
Well, so well, because the idea is that like, well, do you
believe that Allah is timeless? Yeah, I do.
OK. And, and I would believe you
would, because I think that's pretty core to, and pretty much

(01:57:15):
all the schools, I thought, as far as I know with Muslim
teaching is that he is timeless and, and spaceless and mature.
I mean, well, I'm not going to get down that road of the, the
leg and the foot and the arms and all that.
But anyway, whatever the you, you in a general concept, you,
you embrace the idea that he's timeless.
This means that if you were to associate any type of
chronology, because time is a physical creation, so it's so

(01:57:40):
it's not of him, it it's not part of him, it's not something
he's tied to, it's something he created.
So when you associate him with it or give him a chronology,
you're now taking part of the part of his creation time and
associate it directly with him as a partner, saying he's tied
to it. You know that he now experiences

(01:58:00):
time the way his creation experiences time in a linear
fashion. That's what I'm saying.
So if if God experiences time the way humans experience time
in in our reference frame, in the known material reference
frame for example, how is that? Still, and by the way, and just

(01:58:25):
so you know, he can't. I mean, it's philosophically
incoherent. It's actually an infinite
regress. You get to know.
You get to where creation never exists.
You can't, you can't have him actually apply to time because
then he stretches back in a linear time state indefinitely.
And we never get to the point where he actually creates
creation because it's like, it'slike, if you're, it's like if

(01:58:48):
you're standing waiting in line to get movie tickets and you
have an infinite number of people in front of you, when are
you going to get a ticket? Never so that.
That's why an infinite regress is completely incoherent.
And that's why, like, if you attribute a linear time space to
God, that's what you're left with is an infinite regress.

(01:59:08):
But how can you even exclude theidea of God creating us in the
space of time? Well, because his decision is
non, non temporal. And I know here's the thing.
This is where a lot of people, especially in Christian on
history have got muddled up because they really try to
overly conceptualize this. And again, God is

(01:59:30):
transcendental. We're never going to fully,
completely bring his nature downto our level to be fully
understood. It's just impossible.
You know, he's beyond us. All we can go off is what he's
revealed about himself. And if it seems paradoxical,
even, well, we just, we go with it, you know, if it doesn't fit
at our, you know, level here on earth, that's where we're

(01:59:50):
supposed to take his word that this is the case.
It's kind of like, it's like, let me give you another example.
Like you know what a tesseract is.
Have you heard of that before? It's.
OK, it's, it's basically a fourth dimensional object.
And if you could like, I'll try to, I'll try to give you a

(02:00:10):
picture. You could actually pull it up,
you could type it in real quick.Tesseract is basically, and this
isn't, this isn't Marvel Universe stuff, guys, calm down.
OK, I'm talking about the actualthing here.
This is kind of a theoretical object and it's a fourth
dimensional object. And what it is, to kind of put
it simply as I can, it's an object that is in all of its
states of flux at the same time.So like if you picture a box and

(02:00:36):
you open that box, each stage ofyou opening that box and
unfolding that box is all existing in the same time and
space. It's a fourth dimensional
object. It's called a tesseract.
It's kind of how we imagine how like, you know, a higher
dimensional, you know, relationship to objects and
things like that. It kind of work.
So so we come up with this idea and it's a tesseract.

(02:00:57):
So, and you can see how hard it is to really describe to
someone, you know, this 4th dimensional object in a way
that's really coherent. And that's just kind of
basically one, one layer of reality above us essentially, or
however you want to put it. So this, this idea is to, to
present the idea that if you, ifit's so hard to kind of

(02:01:18):
communicate, you know, these higher level concepts, these
higher dimensional concepts, howmuch more so to communicate the
grandest sensity that exists beyond all of them.
So, so in terms of relating God too much to reality, we make
massive faux pas. And in the Christian Church,
these is this is generally whereheresies came from.

(02:01:39):
You know, people couldn't acceptthe idea of the hypostatic union
of Christ being fully man and fully God.
They had to come up with things like, you know, what is it
Nestorianism, you know, and things like that, trying to
divide his nature or, or you know, other different heresies
where they're trying to remove the concept that is flesh or
make it seem like it's it's God in a flesh suit.

(02:01:59):
Or they're always trying to seemingly over differentiate,
overanalyze, you know, the bringGod too far down to this level
to demand him to be understood by simple means.
And that's generally, traditionally whenever the
church is flagged A heresy, whenever people reach too far to
overly define God, people found themselves in heresy because we
can only relate to God analogically.

(02:02:21):
He's not like anything in creation.
So when we point to something orwe're referencing God, we can
only say God is kind of like this.
We can never say he's exactly like this, and if you're doing
the thing or you're saying he's exactly like this thing, then
that's shirk. And I see that done with Muslims
all the time. By claiming that the nature of
personhood has to be identical to the nature of humans

(02:02:43):
personhood, I see that also as qualifying as shirk.
I mean, I think you're sort sortof conflating the concept of
shirk. Basically let me tackle shirk
and give you an impression of what it is.

(02:03:04):
I'm I'm sure you know it right? But what I don't.
Well, I understand it's associating a partner with the
law. Saying anything is exactly like
law. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. So in, in, in human reference
frame, we have to relate to God as a unique being who, who is,

(02:03:26):
who is our creator and who is our provider.
So we don't have any necessity to have an alternate deity other
than the one to create a God. So any, any, any mix up here in
this area would be shirk, right?For example, So if God, if God

(02:03:49):
would say I'm one God and someone would object to it and
say no, I can have an alternate God, that intention would be
amounting to shirk, right? That decision would be amounting
to shirk. So that decision of that person
would be shirk, right? For example.
So that that is how shirk can bedefined.

(02:04:09):
But from what I listened from you so far, is the idea that God
cannot conceive a new plan. For example, you're.
You're telling me that would also be equal?

(02:04:31):
To yeah, yeah, it would. Because now you're attaching
chronology to him and he doesn'tknow the future.
You'd have to adopt some form ofopen theism because if he knew
the future, he'd be able to planfor it.
He wouldn't have to change his mind.
It's non temporal thinking. Yeah, this is where this is
where I have my objections. Why would you bring in such a
limitation to God that God cannot conceive new ideas in the
future? Well, no, it's, it's, it's not a

(02:04:54):
limitation. It's actually the opposite.
In fact, if he, if he needed that, that would be the
limitation because that would mean he doesn't know the future.
That's the limitation. Your, it's your position that
brings a limitation. Mine accepts his omniscience and
understands that he knows the future.
And if he knows the future and then he can plan for all
variables. So in fact, I'm a Mullinist.
So I believe in all three types of God's knowledge, free

(02:05:16):
knowledge, necessary knowledge, and middle knowledge, especially
middle knowledge. So I know he he can, he can know
the future. Not only does he know what will
happen, he knows what would happen if different things
happened. OK, this is a fantastic
conversation and I got the substance from you right now to
think about it and to come up with my with my language.

(02:05:42):
Language. No, not, not so much rebuttal at
this point in time, but I want to be able to recollect language
in my brain, to be able to articulate my opinions, yeah.
No, that's cool. Yeah, I'm good with that.
No worries. Because you should always
remember I'm not English person.I'm not an English.
Person. No, that's why.
No, no. I'm respectful of that, man.
I'm not some, you know, I'm not going to come at you sideways
like that. It's fine.

(02:06:02):
No worries. Yeah.
So we'll meet tomorrow. Tomorrow is Thursday.
Yeah, we'll meet tomorrow the same time.
And I'll do some, I'll do some preparation and we will, we will
talk about this fantastic Smokey.
It's been wonderful chatting to you today.
And also fantastic bread. And, and yeah, we will see you

(02:06:25):
guys tomorrow. Until then, God bless you, bread
and God bless you, Smokey. And we'll see you tomorrow.
Godly. Have a good day guys.
You're going to be open, Sorry. Bread.
Well, I was going to ask Smokey if he plans on opening up
something. Yeah, OK.
So yeah, Brett, it was wonderfulchatting Brett and looking

(02:06:48):
forward to talking to you tomorrow.
And I would, I would want, I would want, I would want to also
listen to your views on this subject, OK.
Right. You want me to throw out
something for you to think aboutwhile you're absorbing what's?
Mostly sure, I'll I'll. In the meantime, I'll finish my
lunch. Go ahead.

(02:07:11):
When you're thinking about the Quran, do you believe that it
was an afterthought of God or doyou believe it was pre planned
before the creation of humanity?Something to think about.
Just let me know what your thoughts are.
Tomorrow I'm going to let you consume that along with your
fruit loops. I'll talk to you later.

(02:07:32):
Now go ahead and say something. You wanted to say something.
I was listening to you. I was putting myself on mute and
listening to you. Well I I I did I I said
something to think about. Do you believe that the Quran
was an afterthought of Allah or do you believe it was pre
planned before the existence of humanity?
Gotcha. OK, OK, I'll.

(02:07:53):
And with that, I guess I'll jumpout of here so you can sit down
your show and I'll talk to you tomorrow about it.
All right after you've had time to absorb.
Yeah, fantastic, fantastic. And I would also want to get
from you guys biblical references on which you build
this philosophy. All right.

(02:08:15):
Interested to see what biblical passages that you're coming up
with to build this philosophy. Well, he was explaining to you
the dimensions as well as the fact that God is timeless.
But we can get more into that. We can elaborate into it later
and all that. I don't want to hold you up
because you said you had something you had to do and

(02:08:36):
we've taken up an hour on you. Yeah, that's fine.
But I'm I'm I'm keen to look timelessness and omniscience.
We understand these are these are philosophical concepts, but
to sort of idealize a case for God's operations, I would want
to have a biblical reference to work with.

(02:08:58):
You know what I mean? So we cannot, we cannot build an
A doctrine out of no scriptural direction.
Right. Well, I'm sure that Smokey, on
the point that he made to you, I'm sure he's got a lot of
different ways to hit. It for.
You on that? I'm sure he'll be prepared

(02:09:19):
tomorrow whenever you guys have your discussion for sure.
All right, well, it was nice talking.
Nice talking to your brother. God bless you and we'll see you
later. So our guys, God bless you all
and we'll meet you tomorrow. How do I stop this and stream?

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