September 11, 2023 • 40 mins
Have you ever wondered how to pivot your business from invisible to invincible? In this episode of the Brilliant Business Beautiful Life Podcast, I chat with the remarkable Jenn Donovan about her entrepreneurial journey.
Known for her ceaseless passion and impressive knack for marketing, Jenn brings a refreshing perspective from her diverse background, transitioning from law to owning a rural shop and now being a successful social media marketing consultant.
Her contributions as the founder of 'Buy from a Bush Business' and co-founder of 'Spend with Us Buy from a Bush Business Marketplace' bring an infectious drive for success that every entrepreneur can learn from.
Delving into social media marketing, Jenn shares her wisdom about the significance of a strategic blend - including sales and value-driven approaches. She illustrates the importance of creative thinking in growing a business and the necessity of a well-rounded social media marketing strategy with a focus on sales, brand awareness, lead generation, growth, and engagement.
Jenn Donovan, Social Media and Marketing: https://socialmediaandmarketing.com.au/
108 Social Media Content Ideas: https://socialmediaandmarketing.com.au/freebies/108-social-media-content-creation-ideas/
I'd love to know what you enjoyed about today's episode! Leave a comment below or DM me on Instagram @16thavecreative
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Samantha Bell (00:00):
Today we're getting social.
On the Brilliant Business,beautiful Life podcast.
We're joined by the vivacious,wonderful Jen Donovan from
Social Media and MarketingAustralia.
Jen is a social media marketingconsultant who takes you from
invisible to invincible.
She is a true multi-passionateentrepreneur.
(00:21):
She's a country girl and shehas her finger in so many pies
it just makes my head spin.
Welcome to the BrilliantBusiness, beautiful Life podcast
, where we share simple,actionable strategies, plus the
mindset and wellness practicesyou need to build the business
and life you love.
Head to 16thavcreativecomforward slash playbook and
(00:46):
download your free guide todesign the business and life you
deserve.
Today I'm your host, samanthaBell, and this is the Brilliant
Business, beautiful Life podcast.
Are you ready for the businessand life of your dreams?
Let's get started.
I'm really excited to have heron the show today.
Jen specialises in helpingstartups in rural and regional
(01:10):
Australia build their businessthrough online and offline
marketing, social media andbuilding a community.
She lives on a farm in theRiverina area of New South Wales
I hope I got that right, jen.
She loves her rural life andbeing an active member of that
community too.
She's also the founder of Buyfrom, a Bush business which has
(01:35):
over 380,000 members.
She's the co-founder of Spendwith Us Buy from a Bush business
marketplace, and is also thehost of the podcast Small
Business Made Simple.
So welcome Jen.
You've got so many things onthe go.
Your passion is amazing, soyeah, welcome.
Jenn Donovan (01:55):
Thanks so much, Samantha, it's been.
Yeah, it's so good to have abit of a chat to you today.
It's always a little bitawkward when someone's reading
your bio out and you're thinking, oh, did I do that?
Is that right?
Oh, yes, that is true, yes, butno, it's always wonderful to
have your business lifesummarised.
So thank you.
Samantha Bell (02:14):
How did it all start?
Tell me about you and yourjourney and how you came to do
what you're doing today, becauseI'm sure there's a lot of
stories there.
Jenn Donovan (02:24):
There probably is a lot of stories.
I guess, as a marketing person,like you know, I sleep, sleep,
breathe and dream marketing.
Basically, it really is thething that lights me up when I
get to talk about it on podcastslike this and with clients and
things like that.
But I'm very much a see aproblem, solve a problem type of
(02:44):
person.
I think that's how I end up inall sorts of different areas.
You know it's like oh, there'sa problem, I could solve that
problem.
So I guess you know one in theclock, right back like I started
my career in law and then I didthat for about 15, 18 years
type of thing.
And as my story goes, my bestfriend and I had way too much
(03:05):
wine to drink one night and wejust decided to throw in our
corporate jobs and buy a shop.
We were like let's get abusiness together.
How little would it be just to,you know, run a business
together and, you know, not haveso much stress and things like
that.
So I think within like fourweeks we found this rundown shop
in our local community.
We bought it and it was kind oflike oh wow, we have no retail
(03:26):
experience between us.
We have literally no idea whatwe're doing.
I guess at the start we did itjust to play shops.
We just did it because we justwanted to have some fun.
But it wasn't long after thatthat I kind of realized that
this could actually be a reallygood business.
You know, it had really goodbones to do something with, and
that's pretty much where I foundmy love for marketing.
If you want to grow a businessin a rural area or a regional
(03:50):
area during a drought, you'vegot to kind of learn to market
yourself.
Samantha Bell (03:54):
You certainly do, like you really just jumped in,
you know, and first diving in,starting before you were ready,
all those big amazing things.
I guess you were filled with,obviously, joy and passion and
just so, yes, we can do this.
Did you have moments of like,oh my goodness, what have I just
(04:15):
signed up for?
Jenn Donovan (04:17):
The very first day when we got the keys, that was
the thought of oh no, I'm thrownin my law career for this.
What have I done?
Very much so.
But I think, you know, one ofthe things we did very early on,
which I didn't know was goingto be really impactful but
turned out it was was we kind ofhad what we term our first
partners meeting, which wasreally just lunch at the pub on
(04:38):
a Saturday afternoon after weshot the shop, and it was kind
of like let's do this for sevenyears.
This isn't us, we're notretailers, but we're going to
have some fun.
Let's do it for seven years andsee how we go.
And I think that one decisionwas kind of like we based
everything off that.
You know, should we get thisbrand in, well, will that help
us sell in seven years?
(04:58):
You know, should we move to adifferent premises?
Will that help us sell in sevenyears?
So it's without knowing it.
We've made this really bigstart with the end in mind goal,
but we just kind of basedeverything that.
Every decision that we made,every decision is probably a
little bit big, but you know,big decisions that we made, we
based against that one goal andI think that was probably one of
(05:21):
the best things that we couldhave done.
And we sold.
We sold in after six and a halfyears and we sold three days
after we put it on the markets,because we had been working
towards this thing for six and ahalf years and after that I'd
always had a mentor in mybusiness helping me with
marketing and teaching me, andhe actually asked me to go in
(05:42):
business with him.
So I went into business with himand we travelled the country
doing marketing and social mediato all the small business
owners that we could get infront of, mostly in capital
cities.
And it's rough to say whenyou're reading my bio it always
makes me a little bit, I guess,smile with some memories of you
(06:03):
know why, in the clock backprobably four years, I would
never have told you I was from afarm or that I lived in the
riverina.
I thought that people wouldn'ttake me seriously if I didn't
come from a capital city, and sothat's kind of something I've
really embraced, you know, overthe last couple of years is, you
know, it's actually a bit of asuperpower and why not lead into
it?
So it's funny how life justkeeps giving you all these
(06:25):
lessons.
Samantha Bell (06:27):
Absolutely, and I guess too you didn't want to
talk about being a country girland from the arena and that
people wouldn't take youseriously.
You compare yourself to otherpeople.
Jenn Donovan (06:37):
Yeah.
Samantha Bell (06:38):
Big players have been around for a long time and
everything is so city focused,so it would have been amazing
for the rural community to seesomeone just really going out
there and making a success ofwhat they chose to do and jump
in.
Jenn Donovan (06:56):
Yeah, look, I think that's the way I feel now,
but it's certainly not the wayI felt back then and I think,
like the pandemic did so manynegative things, but I think it
gave us some really big gifts aswell, because one of the gifts
that gave me was I went fromhome, from my home office on my
farm, which I didn't thinkpeople would think was a serious
(07:16):
business, and then the pandemiccome and everyone was working
from home and I was kind of likeyou know, one of.
I was kind of like you know, afuturistic entrepreneur I've
been doing this for years typeof thing.
So it was kind of I felt likepeople again, I could talk about
it and I could say it, becausepeople could realize, oh, you
can run a really successfulbusiness from home in your home
(07:39):
office, that you've converted abedroom into an office and
things like that.
So, yeah, it's just funny howand it's more all my inner
thinking like no one ever saidthat to me, it was all about me.
Samantha Bell (07:52):
Yes, yes, that's so, so important because it's
our, it's what we think and sayto itself.
That's our own perception andit's got nothing to do with what
your clients think or what therest of the world thinks.
And you know, plenty ofbusinesses have been built in a
in the wardrobe I'm casting withcushions around them in their
(08:15):
wardrobe, so true, in thebedroom, and it's it's, it's
wonderful, and that's that's aperception that we had because
we were all brought up.
You know, a real business is abrick and mortar place and now,
like you said, since COVID, it'sall, all changed, it's fabulous
.
But I'm really interested toknow why you chose the number
(08:37):
seven.
When you're talking aboutsetting up your business,
everything had a seven yearfocus.
People talk about their oneyear plan, their five year plan,
but you've come up with thenumber seven and that was your
focus and everything was workedaround that.
And then you hit your.
You beat your seven year goalby six months.
You you've sold it six and ahalf years, so seven come from
(09:01):
Samantha.
Jenn Donovan (09:01):
I wish I had a really good answer for that, but
I'm actually in the middle ofwriting a marketing book at the
moment.
It's all about marketing yourrural and regional small
business, which hopefully, youknow, people might actually get
to see it some stage if I everfinish it, but that's one of my
stories.
I have to say I really don'tknow where seven come from.
Seven, I wonder whether it waskind of you know, people talk
(09:24):
about like the 70 or somethinglike that, but I don't remember
having a conversation of youknow, should we do it for 10
years?
Should we do it for five years?
It was kind of like let's justdo it for seven and see how we
go.
I
Samantha Bell (10:18):
It's amazing though it's, it's really proof
that what you set your mind to,what you attach to, and you use
that as your driver, is what'sgoing to happen.
So what you think and what yousay to yourself is going to
become your reality, isn't it?
So you were so focused on beingsuccessful and doing this and
building it up for those sevenyears and that was really your,
(10:41):
your training round.
What you do now and yeah, andretail is so different to an
online service business.
Talk us through how, all thethings you've learnt from your
retail experience and how youlearnt your marketing.
How did you get all theconcepts and ideas?
Because now that's what youspecialize in marketing and
(11:04):
social media online.
It's a complete flip around.
Jenn Donovan (11:08):
Yeah, it is, and I think that one of the best
things and at hindsight she's awonderful thing like to look
back now and go yeah, that wasreally good, but at the time it
didn't feel so good.
But, like I said, I always hada marketing mentor when I was in
my retail business and therewas mastermind programs and for
(11:28):
years probably three, four yearsI sat in those mastermind
programs that were face to faceback then and I would travel to
Melbourne, which is three and ahalf hours from me.
I'd sit in a room for two dayswith not one other retailer, so
there'd be like 14 or 15 servicespace businesses and we would
talk about all the differentmarketing concepts and I would
(11:50):
sit there and go.
But how do I adapt that toretail?
How does this work for retail?
And I think every time I openmy mouth, the rest of the people
must have gone.
Oh, for God's sake, she's goingto ask how that relates to
retail.
But it just like.
I think it taught me to bereally analytical with things
and really think outside the box, because Not, admittedly, back
(12:11):
then we only had a very smallretail presence.
We were quite.
We had an eBay presence and wehad an online shop, but, look,
it didn't do a lot.
Our eBay business was probablymore successful than our actual
online business that we hadourselves, but our bricks and
mortar was, you know, the majorcontributor as far as a income
(12:33):
stream went.
So we weren't online as much aswhat you would be now, probably
if we had the same business.
But I think, being in that roomof people who thought
differently to me they spokedifferently to me I think there
was so much that I learnedsitting in that room, being
different to them and reallyhaving to think of things almost
(12:55):
, you know, I guess again,starting at the end of mine.
So if I want to do that, thenwhy do I do that in retail and
having to think backwards fromthere and it is something that I
teach a lot of my privateclients and things like that is,
you know, what's the goal onwork backwards, you know, let's
sort of, and so I guess I'veintroduced that thinking as part
(13:16):
of my, I guess, ip as to how Iteach people, you know, to grow
their businesses.
Samantha Bell (13:21):
So powerful and it's really yeah, it's really
taught you to be creative inyour thinking, into, like you
said, if there's a problem,you'll fix it.
You're working on how to getaround it, and that is the guts
of being an entrepreneur, isn'tit?
You've got to, because nothingruns smoothly.
No, no and if it does, you're introuble.
(13:44):
You need those little speedhumps along the way.
So talk to us about your socialmedia side of what you do,
social media marketing and whyit's important.
How social media marketing foronline service business is
different to an e-com businessand the whole thing.
Jenn Donovan (14:07):
I suppose, like social media is such an
important part of our marketing,but probably, I'd like to say
from the outset, it's not youronly marketing.
So if you are just doing socialmedia, then it's probably time
to think about what are themarketing?
Where else your ideal clientshanging out that you can tap
into them and market to them?
(14:28):
Because you know again, youknow, as your listener has
probably heard a thousand timesyou know you don't own that real
estate.
You know building empires onCrownland is not a good idea.
You know it could disappeartomorrow.
You probably, samantha, youprobably like me, you've
probably seen your social mediafeed at least a few times a week
that someone's been hacked,that they've lost their
(14:48):
Instagram account or lost theirFacebook account, and again it's
kind of like, yeah, you've gotno control.
So if that's all you're doing,then you know, perhaps it's time
to think outside the marketingbox.
So I just want to say thatfirst up yeah, and that's such
an important point.
Yeah, anyways, social media isstill plays such a huge part in
our marketing as such.
(15:09):
But I guess the biggestdifference that I see between
service-based businesses andretail businesses and I'm
generalising here it's you know,if you're listening you're like
, well, that's not me.
Then you know I'm trying, I amputting everyone in the same box
, but I find often thate-commerce businesses are always
in sales strategy mode.
(15:29):
They're like buy my candle, buymy candlestick, buy my balloon,
buy my dress, buy my shoes.
Like it's just bye, bye, bye,bye, bye.
So many service-based businessesare like leading with value,
which is amazing and that iswhat we're taught to do.
You know value first, but it'skind of like how far do I have
to actually scroll before I knowhow I can do business with you
(15:52):
or what it is that you actuallysell?
Or you know it's like almostmaking themselves hard to buy
from and not that sales strategy, like always in the maybe the
brand awareness strategy ormaybe you're in the engagement
strategy, but sort of you know,hold actions, yes, but the
actual buy this now a lot ofservice-based businesses are
(16:14):
kind of missed.
That that's probably thebiggest difference that I see,
and I think you've got to have acombination of everything you
know you've got to sometimessell, you've got to sometimes
not sell.
So I think that is probablywhere I see how I can help
people the most is sort of getthat overall strategy just a
little bit more succinct, thatyou're not always selling, but
(16:37):
you don't forget to sell at theright times, and things like
that.
So many service-based businessesare like leading with value,
which is amazing and that iswhat we're taught to do.
You know value first, but it'skind of like how far do I have
to actually scroll before I knowhow I can do business with you
or what it is that you actuallysell?
Or you know it's like almostmaking themselves hard to buy
from and not that salesstrategy, like always in the
maybe the brand awarenessstrategy or maybe you're in the
engagement strategy, but sort ofyou know, hold actions, yes,
but the actual buy this now alot of service-based businesses
are kind of missed.
That that's probably thebiggest difference that I see,
and I think you've got to have acombination of everything you
know you've got to sometimessell, you've got to sometimes
not sell.
So I think that is probablywhere I see how I can help
people the most is sort of getthat overall strategy just a
little bit more succinct, thatyou're not always selling, but
you don't forget to sell at theright times, and things like
that.
Samantha Bell (16:41):
Yeah, perfect, because a lot of my clients are
very uncomfortable with theselling.
So they're very happy to talkand give the value and to get
you know, build thatrelationship on social media.
But when it comes time tosaying buy now, they're like no,
I can't do it, and so that's abig piece of the puzzle missing,
(17:03):
isn't it?
Jenn Donovan (17:03):
Yeah, it is Because you know we're in the
business to make money, to sellsome things.
So it's and like, there will beobviously your clients who are
doing that are probably gettingsales, because there is a
certain percentage of peoplethat will just consume that
value and go oh, if this is whatI get for free, what do I get
if I pay?
(17:24):
And they're more likely to goand perhaps research that,
whereas there'll be certainother people that will be like
oh wow, great value, scroll by.
Oh wow, more great value,Scroll by.
And it's not until they see thepost that says join my
mastermind or, you know, buy myprogram or buy my thing.
They're like oh yeah, I likethis person, what is it that
(17:45):
they're selling?
So I guess at the end of theday, it's leaving money on the
table if you don't sort of havethat sales strategy.
And on the e-commerce side, Iguess it's sort of the other
side of not everyone wants to besold to all the time.
So it's like what else you gotfor me?
You know, I know you sellcandles, but hey, let's have a
(18:06):
bit more of a relationship thanthat transactional one.
And you know I have this.
I don't know where they'resaying come from.
I didn't make it up but I loveit and it's that people come for
the content but stay for thecommunity.
So they'll come for yourcontent and they'll hang around
for the community and they'llbecome repeat buyers because of
the community that you providethem or refer as through the
(18:28):
community that you sort of startto build.
So if you're just transactional, you know again you're leaving
money on the table.
Samantha Bell (18:36):
And that's something you focus on a lot in
your business is communitybuilding.
Jenn Donovan (18:41):
Yeah.
Samantha Bell (18:42):
Yeah, so what do you say to your clients to help
them build their community?
Jenn Donovan (18:46):
community Communities can come in all
sorts of different forms.
It can come in probably themost obvious one is a Facebook
group.
But not everyone wants to run aFacebook group and they're
getting harder and harder.
Like you know, back in 2018,snuckaberg made them a big thing
and we had great traction.
You know, now traction is, youknow, still a little bit iffy.
(19:07):
So they're not the be all inand all, but they're certainly
community focused if you makethem that way.
But it could be one of the otherthings I sort of talk about a
lot from social media.
Social media is a really greatplace to meet new people, but
the idea of being on socialshould be to get them off social
.
So you meet them on socialmedia, you nurture them a little
(19:28):
bit on social media, but thenyou want them on your email list
because that's where you canhave really dedicated
conversations.
You can split your list intoeveryone who wants to talk about
X as opposed to everyone whowants to talk about Y, who
doesn't want to hear about X andall of that sort of thing.
You have really deepconversations and deep nurturing
on your email list.
(19:49):
So that's sort of another waythat I would look at that A
community building is on youremail list.
You can sort of segment yourlist.
Otherwise, you know, you canjust build a community by, you
know, having a little, you knowDM group on LinkedIn or you know
a little group in Messenger orsomething like that.
(20:09):
So it can be really quitesimple or it can be, you know,
quite complex and you actuallyhave a membership or something
like that Exactly.
Samantha Bell (20:18):
And you make such a good point about email list
building and I think that's oneof the things that new
businesses or early on inbusiness they tend not to focus
on enough.
Yes, they don't see theimportance all about visibility
on the social or having yourwebsite right and everything.
You've really got to startearly to nurture those
(20:39):
relationships and also becauseyou own your email list.
Jenn Donovan (20:43):
Yes.
Samantha Bell (20:44):
And, yeah, you can control all of that and the
algorithms aren't going to muckit up for you.
Jenn Donovan (20:49):
I know exactly and people say, yeah, but how do
you get people to open youremails?
And I'm like, well, there'sobviously a strategy behind that
, but we're never really lookingfor 100% open.
Like, if you can get 20 or 30%of people on your list to open
your email, it's probably a lotbetter than the 5% 2% who might
see your social media posts.
(21:10):
So you've kind of got to gowith the data.
I'm all about making businessdecisions based on some data,
and digital marketing is a bitof a gift.
That way you can find lots ofdata to help you make those very
strategic decisions as well.
Absolutely.
Samantha Bell (21:27):
Yeah, it's really helpful to track everything in
your business.
It doesn't matter what it is,track it and open rates on your
emails too.
That's a more valuable openthan a social post being viewed,
because it's someone who'sactually chosen to click that
link to sign up to your emaillist and they're actually really
(21:48):
, they're more invested in you.
So an email open is probablymore valuable too.
So another reason to spend somemore time there.
Jenn Donovan (21:57):
Yeah, and look, even I would go so far as to say
the open rate isn't your onlymetric either.
Like it's top of mind marketing.
Like I send an email once aweek to my list and they might
not open it but they'll see myname.
Like, oh, it's Thursday,there's a new podcast out.
I must go listen to that.
Like they might even read theemail.
(22:17):
And like e-commerce.
You know, I've got a fewbusinesses that I subscribe to
and, admittedly, they probablyemail a little bit too often.
Maybe it's once a day orsomething, and I definitely
don't open every one of thoseemails.
But when I want a new skirt,guess who's top of mind Perseaps
landing in my inbox.
Yeah, so there's also metricsthat you can't measure as far as
(22:40):
the value of email marketing,because you don't know how many
people you've just reminded togo to your website, even though
they haven't opened your email,simply because they saw your
email come through Exactly.
Samantha Bell (22:52):
That's so, so.
True, I talked about socialmedia not being your market
marketing strategy, but I'm sortof moving back to social media
because that's a question that alot of people are still
confused about, particularly nowthat it's harder to get the
engagement that you once did.
It's harder to grow your flowof the list.
(23:12):
So what's a good way forsomeone to put together a really
solid social media strategywhen you know?
Obviously they have to know whothey're talking to and the
purpose that know their why andconnect the dots together.
Have you got any little tipsfor people listening?
Jenn Donovan (23:32):
Yeah, absolutely, and you're so right Like, if you
don't know, like, obviously,the fundamentals of marketing is
know who your who is.
You know, I come across so manypeople who are so many small
business owners and be like Ihate Instagram.
I'm just not, I don't likeInstagram, I'm not going on
Instagram.
You know this and that and allof a sudden we dig into who
(23:53):
their ideal client is and it'sthe people on Instagram and I'm
like well, it's not actuallyabout you, it's not about your
business and it's about yourclients and you know all your
customers and being showing upwhere they are.
So that's probably you know.
Obviously, knowing who your whois, knowing where they hang out
Obviously you want to be wherethey hang out and also having an
idea of what you want to befamous for, so that top of my
(24:15):
marketing, if they think handles, you want them to think you,
you know, they think socialmedia strategy.
You want them to think you,whatever it is that you're
actually selling, you want youknow to be famous for that
particular thing so that you aretop of mind when they want to
buy it.
But I think a good, solidsocial media strategy comes back
a little bit to what I wastalking about before, where, you
(24:38):
know, having a sales strategy.
You know I talk about fivedifferent strategies.
So there's the sales strategy,there's a brand awareness
strategy, a lead generationstrategy, a growth strategy and
an engagement strategy.
I hope I didn't say any ofthose twice.
No, you didn't.
It's sort of like trying to geta bit of a mix of each one of
(25:00):
those and, of course, somethingthat might be a lead generation
strategy.
For instance, you know I havethis lead magnet sign up here.
Then it could also be part ofyour brand awareness strategy.
So these things don't standalone.
And, of course, you know,something that is part of your
growth strategy could also bepart of your sales, or it could
be part of your lead gen orsomething like that.
(25:21):
So it's not like you need tothink, oh my gosh, I need you
know something for each one ofthose, but you just need to make
sure you've got some wellrounded strategies that you're
not always selling, you're notalways just leading with value
that you are putting out there.
You know your brand awareness.
What do you stand for?
What's your brand about?
This is who I am, type of thing.
(25:42):
So there's all that sort of.
That's how I sort of talk abouthow you can get a well rounded
strategy.
But of course there's the otherside with social media is it's
in the name.
You've got to be social, likeit is actually called social
media.
So then I start to talk about,you know, having a reach out
strategy, which I call my Hanseland Gretel strategy, basically
(26:04):
just spreading breadcrumbs allaround social media so that your
business name whatever, or yourname, depending on you know how
your business is run.
Is people sort of notice itbecause you're commenting on
this or you've, you know, addedsome value here, or you know
you've shared this person's postor you've said congratulations
over there.
You're just sort of sprinklingthose breadcrumbs to make people
(26:27):
curiosity killed the cat.
Basically, you want peoplecurious enough to go.
Is this person who's justcommented we're not connected
and you know, go over, have alook at your bio and go.
It's just insane to really go.
Oh, the content's awesome, I'mgoing to follow them.
Oh, there's something I'm goingto reach out about that.
So you know, again, it's justkind of having that reach out
(26:49):
strategy which I think a lot ofpeople, especially with
scheduling and I'm not againstscheduling, I think you know my
business wouldn't survivewithout scheduling in social
media, but you've got to spendthe time then to actually go to
social media and be social.
So, whether that's 10 minutes aday, whether that's 15 minutes
every two days, whatever that is, and you know, obviously,
(27:11):
replying to the people whoreplied to you, and also, you
know, I think, some love, youknow some social love around
there as well.
Samantha Bell (27:20):
That's it, and that's all part of that
community building that you weretalking about too.
Jenn Donovan (27:24):
Yes, exactly.
Samantha Bell (27:26):
You're very focused on helping the rural
community.
What sort of work do you do inyour community?
Jenn Donovan (27:33):
Yeah, I guess one of the reasons why I'm quite
focused on a rural community isbecause and this is going to
sound really terrible I reallyshould decide whether or not I'm
going to say it on a podcast,but anyway I'll say it.
But you know, when I was inbusiness, we would get these
people from, you know, sydneyand Melbourne coming down and
you know, talking to us aboutour businesses and I'd sit there
(27:55):
and go.
Really, do you really know whatit's like to run?
You know a business in thecountry, like you know, things
are a little bit different.
We don't have the numbers thatyou have in the cities.
I think I probably learn it'snot as different as what I
thought it was.
I do actually love to go in andyou know help rural and regional
small businesses, whether thatbe through workshops or keynotes
(28:18):
or just, you know, one-to-oneconversations with them, because
I really feel like I do gettheir business.
I get the peaks and the troughsof.
You know everything thathappens out here in rural
Australia.
You know there's always, youknow, something going on in a
community that can impact smallbusinesses.
You know, certainly when I hadmy retail business, if it wasn't
(28:39):
a drought and it wasn't a floodand there wasn't bushfires, it
was blue-green algae and thetourism, you know, tourists
weren't coming and there wasalways something that you had to
kind of go right.
Okay, what am I going to do now?
Because this is not going towork anymore because of X, y or
Z type of thing.
So I just love getting in and Ifeel that there's not as many
(29:01):
people out there helping ruraland regional small businesses.
So I guess that's kind of wheremy passion sort of lies.
And, like you know, my bigFacebook group by from Bush
Business, it sort of startedback in 2019, in October 2019,
we're going through horrificdrought back then.
It's hard to believe now wheneverything is just so wet and so
green, but you know, like fouryears ago it was horrific
(29:23):
droughts and it was October.
I was traveling around, youknow, the riverina and no one
was excited about Christmas,because one of the things when
you live in a rural area is, iffarmers don't have money, towns
don't have money.
Like you know, if farmers havea really good cropping season,
they're going to come to townand they're going to spend their
money.
It might not be with thejeweler but it might be, you
(29:44):
know, with the chemical guy whothen employs more people, that
they come and spend money in thejeweler, and you know it just
injects more money into thecommunity.
So I guess my thought was youknow how can I help like these
people get more traction intotheir business?
And a Facebook group justseemed like the obvious answer.
And little did I know thatbushfires, floods, covid and,
(30:07):
you know, a mouse plague weregoing to come.
But again, you know rural andregional communities would need
more and more help with.
So Absolutely.
Samantha Bell (30:17):
It's such a different perspective.
Like you did say at one point,marketing and the approach for
city is not too different tocountry, but in reality, the
real day to day living in thecity, we don't have all those
challenges that you do Like.
We can be in drought and wemight get some water
(30:37):
restrictions, yes, but that isnot the same as you not being
able to as a farmer, not beingable to do their core business
of crops or cattle dying or youknow.
It's a really huge impact thatwe don't understand so much.
So I think for the ruralcommunity, having someone who
(30:58):
really, really understands themand appreciates and values them
would be such a lovely breatheout moment.
They feel supported andconnected and having that
community, his community, isdifferent in the country too.
Jenn Donovan (31:14):
Yeah, it is yeah.
(31:56):
Like you know, I think thateveryone sort of learnt the
value of community during thattime and it's like, yeah, that's
what we kind of knew.
It's beautiful.
I'll view that already.
And now you know, everyone'skind of learning that power of
community.
But it is really important.
And again it comes to thatstory of mine of you know, four,
five, six years ago I wouldnever have said I was from the
(32:19):
country and now I wear it almostlike a badge of honour when I
get to get in front of you know,some rural, regional businesses
doing a workshop, and one ofthe first things is I say, you
know, I live on a farm and Ithink they're all kind of like
she gets it, yeah, straight away.
I built that rapport with them.
This is like yeah, okay, sheknows how it feels to run a
(32:40):
business, or she has some idea.
Like I don't know everythingbut, yes, has some empathy for
what we're going through.
Samantha Bell (32:46):
Yeah, you've got that connector there.
And for a farmer to go off whathe or she does every single day
to jumping on a Zoom call,that's a huge just.
They've had a lot of learningthat you know that we take for
granted every day.
Yeah, you're helping themthrough all of that.
It's wonderful.
Now tell us about your bookthat you're working on.
(33:09):
I was going to ask you beforewe started talking is it Secret
Squirrel Business?
Can we mention it?
But you brought it up, so Iknow that it's okay.
Yeah again.
Jenn Donovan (33:19):
It's just kind of like obviously I'm a marketer, I
love marketing.
I've always thought there's abook inside me but never really
knew what that sort of lookedlike.
And it was just a bit of a tapon the shoulder from one of my
mentors.
It's like is there any booksout there that talk to rural and
regional small businesses aboutmarketing?
I'm like I don't know thatthere is, and so that's just
(33:41):
kind of where the idea came from.
But it's basically a tips book,so I'm not sure how many tips
it'll have in it at the moment.
I think at the moment I'msitting at about 123.
So it'll be something like 123ways to market your business in
the country or something alongthose lines.
And the idea of the book is notnecessarily to read it cover to
(34:03):
cover, but to be able to openit go.
I haven't tried a Facebook ad.
What does Jen say about aFacebook ad?
Oh, okay, this is how you sortof do that.
Or magazine advertising Jennyhitting me, is that really
something in 2023?
Yeah, I didn't realize.
This, this and this, oh, that'sreally interesting.
I should perhaps look furtherinto that or try that.
(34:25):
Or networking you know, ifthere's not a network, maybe
it's time you started one typeof thing Draft one is done,
draft two is half done, sohopefully it won't be too far
away by the time this yearfinishes out.
That sounds brilliant.
Samantha Bell (34:41):
Just the perfect type of book that you can pick
up and go to I've been thinkingabout this, or someone mentioned
that and just go to that partand then you can guide them
along for that little bit andthey can try it and pop the book
down and pick it up again whenthey need.
Jenn Donovan (34:55):
Yeah, that's exactly what I want people to do
, absolutely.
And again, marketing isn't thatdifferent in the country, but
the way we talk about it is justa little bit different, and so
I feel that, you know, justputting it on their level, like
talking about towns as opposedto suburbs, and talking about
community as opposed to this,and just little different things
(35:17):
that is just slightly different.
I'm excited.
It'll be really good, hopefully, and doesn't have a name yet.
Samantha Bell (35:24):
Have we got a name to look out for?
Jenn Donovan (35:26):
It doesn't have a name yet but, like I said, it'll
probably be something like 123ways to market your business in
the country or something Verymuch have a title.
Say what it is Like my businessis social media and marketing
history.
Yes, what we do.
My podcast is, you know, smallBusiness Made Simple.
Yes, what I'm trying to do.
(35:46):
I'm kind of like don't leavethem guessing.
Samantha Bell (35:49):
That's brilliant.
Well, we'll keep an eye out forthat and maybe when it's
launched you can come back onand tell us all about the book.
Yeah, I would love that.
So have you got any little lastsnippets of wisdom to leave for
anybody today?
I?
Jenn Donovan (36:03):
think, probably just reiterating a couple of
things that I've said.
Just nudges.
I love to give people nudgesbut, like you said, a lot of
people when they're starting out, perhaps they don't concentrate
so much on email marketing.
We tend to go straight toopening our social accounts and
working from there.
It's never too late to start anemail list and it's something
(36:26):
that I would highly recommendthat people, if you're not doing
it, to start doing it.
And if you've got a list andyou're not nurturing that list,
then you know, perhaps have abit of a think about what that
strategy could look like.
And also, maybe do an audit onyour social media, from what
we've kind of talked about.
Do you ever sell?
Do you always sell?
(36:46):
Are you sort of building yourbrand or what is it that you're
doing in your social media?
And just have a bit of a Iguess, a strategic look and go.
Gosh, it was three months agothe last time I shared a photo
of myself or shared anythingabout my business, so it was six
weeks ago since I asked peoplethat they would like to buy
something.
Or, on the other hand, it'sjust like that's all I ever do.
(37:09):
He's asked people to buy mythings Gosh.
I need to have a bit more of awell-rounded strategy and just
start there just with a bit of,I guess, analysis, audit and a
bit more thinking, and maybe goand have a look at some people
that you really love on theplatforms and have a look about.
You know, what does theirstrategy look like and things
like that.
So that's probably the twobiggest things.
(37:31):
And also, social media is youronly marketing.
Please start to think outsidethe square because, a it's not a
great way to run a business,but B really would hate for you
to have lost that and thereforereally have that impact on your
business in a negative way.
Gosh, it was three months agothe last time I shared a photo
of myself or shared anythingabout my business, or it was six
weeks ago since I asked peopleif they would like to buy
something.
Or, on the other hand, it'sjust like that's all I ever do,
isask people to buy my things.
Gosh.
I need to have a bit more of awell-rounded strategy and just
start there just with a bit of,I guess, analysis, audit and a
bit more thinking, and maybe goand have a look at some people
that you really love on theplatforms and have a look about.
You know, what does theirstrategy look like and things
like that.
So that's probably the twobiggest things.
And also, social media is youronly marketing.
Please start to think outsidethe square because, it's not a
great way to run a business, butB really would hate for you to
have lost that and thereforereally have that impact on your
business in a negative way.
Samantha Bell (37:50):
So absolutely that's so, so important and a
really good tip to have a lookat what you're actually doing
and pull that to pieces, becausewhat you think you're doing
might be completely differentfrom what you're actually doing,
and it's not until you deepdive into that that you figure
that out.
Jenn Donovan (38:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Samantha Bell (38:08):
Fabulous Well.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today, Jenn.
Jenn Donovan (38:11):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure, it's been such
a great.
I don't.
There's a few stories that I'vetold you that I don't think
I've ever told before or, youknow, heard myself talk about.
So it's been.
You've been a great questionask us.
So, thank you, oh, thank you.
Samantha Bell (38:25):
It's lovely to chat with you and I know our
listeners will appreciate it too, and I'll make sure to put
links to you and your servicesin the show notes.
And have you got a particularlead generation thing you want
to share today, or anything likethat?
Jenn Donovan (38:43):
Yeah, certainly Thanks, samantha.
Probably one of the biggestquestions I get asked is you
know what to post on socialmedia?
So I have a lead magnet that is108 social media content
creation ideas, which isprobably my most downloaded lead
magnet.
It's not fancy.
The idea is that it's printable, so it's not full of, you know,
pretty pictures or anythinglike that, but there is
(39:04):
literally 108 ways to marketyour business in that.
So you can find that at108socialcomau, or just go to my
website and have a look underthe freebie section.
My website, of course, issocial media marketingcomau
Perfect.
Samantha Bell (39:20):
I'll pop those those two links down below too.
Jenn Donovan (39:25):
Yeah, it's been fun.
Thanks, Samantha.
Samantha Bell (39:32):
Thanks so much for listening.
I'd love to know your biggesttakeaway from today's episode,
so leave me a comment below orsend a DM on Instagram.
If you enjoyed this episode,hit the subscribe button
wherever you listen to theBrilliant Business, beautiful
Life podcast and feel free toshare it with someone else
who'll love it too.
I look forward to seeing youfor the next episode and
(39:54):
remember the time is now foryour Brilliant Business and the
beautiful life you adore.
Today we're getting social.
On the Brilliant Business,beautiful Life podcast.
We're joined by the vivacious,wonderful Jen Donovan from
Social Media and MarketingAustralia.
Jen is a social media marketingconsultant who takes you from
invisible to invincible.
She is a true multi-passionateentrepreneur.
(00:21):
She's a country girl and shehas her finger in so many pies
it just makes my head spin.
Welcome to the BrilliantBusiness, beautiful Life podcast
, where we share simple,actionable strategies, plus the
mindset and wellness practicesyou need to build the business
and life you love.
Head to 16thavcreativecomforward slash playbook and
(00:46):
download your free guide todesign the business and life you
deserve.
Today I'm your host, samanthaBell, and this is the Brilliant
Business, beautiful Life podcast.
Are you ready for the businessand life of your dreams?
Let's get started.
I'm really excited to have heron the show today.
Jen specialises in helpingstartups in rural and regional
(01:10):
Australia build their businessthrough online and offline
marketing, social media andbuilding a community.
She lives on a farm in theRiverina area of New South Wales
I hope I got that right, jen.
She loves her rural life andbeing an active member of that
community too.
She's also the founder of Buyfrom, a Bush business which has
(01:35):
over 380,000 members.
She's the co-founder of Spendwith Us Buy from a Bush business
marketplace, and is also thehost of the podcast Small
Business Made Simple.
So welcome Jen.
You've got so many things onthe go.
Your passion is amazing, soyeah, welcome.
Jenn Donovan (01:55):
Thanks so much, Samantha, it's been.
Yeah, it's so good to have abit of a chat to you today.
It's always a little bitawkward when someone's reading
your bio out and you're thinking, oh, did I do that?
Is that right?
Oh, yes, that is true, yes, butno, it's always wonderful to
have your business lifesummarised.
So thank you.
Samantha Bell (02:14):
How did it all start?
Tell me about you and yourjourney and how you came to do
what you're doing today, becauseI'm sure there's a lot of
stories there.
Jenn Donovan (02:24):
There probably is a lot of stories.
I guess, as a marketing person,like you know, I sleep, sleep,
breathe and dream marketing.
Basically, it really is thething that lights me up when I
get to talk about it on podcastslike this and with clients and
things like that.
But I'm very much a see aproblem, solve a problem type of
(02:44):
person.
I think that's how I end up inall sorts of different areas.
You know it's like oh, there'sa problem, I could solve that
problem.
So I guess you know one in theclock, right back like I started
my career in law and then I didthat for about 15, 18 years
type of thing.
And as my story goes, my bestfriend and I had way too much
(03:05):
wine to drink one night and wejust decided to throw in our
corporate jobs and buy a shop.
We were like let's get abusiness together.
How little would it be just to,you know, run a business
together and, you know, not haveso much stress and things like
that.
So I think within like fourweeks we found this rundown shop
in our local community.
We bought it and it was kind oflike oh wow, we have no retail
(03:26):
experience between us.
We have literally no idea whatwe're doing.
I guess at the start we did itjust to play shops.
We just did it because we justwanted to have some fun.
But it wasn't long after thatthat I kind of realized that
this could actually be a reallygood business.
You know, it had really goodbones to do something with, and
that's pretty much where I foundmy love for marketing.
If you want to grow a businessin a rural area or a regional
(03:50):
area during a drought, you'vegot to kind of learn to market
yourself.
Samantha Bell (03:54):
You certainly do, like you really just jumped in,
you know, and first diving in,starting before you were ready,
all those big amazing things.
I guess you were filled with,obviously, joy and passion and
just so, yes, we can do this.
Did you have moments of like,oh my goodness, what have I just
(04:15):
signed up for?
Jenn Donovan (04:17):
The very first day when we got the keys, that was
the thought of oh no, I'm thrownin my law career for this.
What have I done?
Very much so.
But I think, you know, one ofthe things we did very early on,
which I didn't know was goingto be really impactful but
turned out it was was we kind ofhad what we term our first
partners meeting, which wasreally just lunch at the pub on
(04:38):
a Saturday afternoon after weshot the shop, and it was kind
of like let's do this for sevenyears.
This isn't us, we're notretailers, but we're going to
have some fun.
Let's do it for seven years andsee how we go.
And I think that one decisionwas kind of like we based
everything off that.
You know, should we get thisbrand in, well, will that help
us sell in seven years?
(04:58):
You know, should we move to adifferent premises?
Will that help us sell in sevenyears?
So it's without knowing it.
We've made this really bigstart with the end in mind goal,
but we just kind of basedeverything that.
Every decision that we made,every decision is probably a
little bit big, but you know,big decisions that we made, we
based against that one goal andI think that was probably one of
(05:21):
the best things that we couldhave done.
And we sold.
We sold in after six and a halfyears and we sold three days
after we put it on the markets,because we had been working
towards this thing for six and ahalf years and after that I'd
always had a mentor in mybusiness helping me with
marketing and teaching me, andhe actually asked me to go in
(05:42):
business with him.
So I went into business with himand we travelled the country
doing marketing and social mediato all the small business
owners that we could get infront of, mostly in capital
cities.
And it's rough to say whenyou're reading my bio it always
makes me a little bit, I guess,smile with some memories of you
(06:03):
know why, in the clock backprobably four years, I would
never have told you I was from afarm or that I lived in the
riverina.
I thought that people wouldn'ttake me seriously if I didn't
come from a capital city, and sothat's kind of something I've
really embraced, you know, overthe last couple of years is, you
know, it's actually a bit of asuperpower and why not lead into
it?
So it's funny how life justkeeps giving you all these
(06:25):
lessons.
Samantha Bell (06:27):
Absolutely, and I guess too you didn't want to
talk about being a country girland from the arena and that
people wouldn't take youseriously.
You compare yourself to otherpeople.
Jenn Donovan (06:37):
Yeah.
Samantha Bell (06:38):
Big players have been around for a long time and
everything is so city focused,so it would have been amazing
for the rural community to seesomeone just really going out
there and making a success ofwhat they chose to do and jump
in.
Jenn Donovan (06:56):
Yeah, look, I think that's the way I feel now,
but it's certainly not the wayI felt back then and I think,
like the pandemic did so manynegative things, but I think it
gave us some really big gifts aswell, because one of the gifts
that gave me was I went fromhome, from my home office on my
farm, which I didn't thinkpeople would think was a serious
(07:16):
business, and then the pandemiccome and everyone was working
from home and I was kind of likeyou know, one of.
I was kind of like you know, afuturistic entrepreneur I've
been doing this for years typeof thing.
So it was kind of I felt likepeople again, I could talk about
it and I could say it, becausepeople could realize, oh, you
can run a really successfulbusiness from home in your home
(07:39):
office, that you've converted abedroom into an office and
things like that.
So, yeah, it's just funny howand it's more all my inner
thinking like no one ever saidthat to me, it was all about me.
Samantha Bell (07:52):
Yes, yes, that's so, so important because it's
our, it's what we think and sayto itself.
That's our own perception andit's got nothing to do with what
your clients think or what therest of the world thinks.
And you know, plenty ofbusinesses have been built in a
in the wardrobe I'm casting withcushions around them in their
(08:15):
wardrobe, so true, in thebedroom, and it's it's, it's
wonderful, and that's that's aperception that we had because
we were all brought up.
You know, a real business is abrick and mortar place and now,
like you said, since COVID, it'sall, all changed, it's fabulous
.
But I'm really interested toknow why you chose the number
(08:37):
seven.
When you're talking aboutsetting up your business,
everything had a seven yearfocus.
People talk about their oneyear plan, their five year plan,
but you've come up with thenumber seven and that was your
focus and everything was workedaround that.
And then you hit your.
You beat your seven year goalby six months.
You you've sold it six and ahalf years, so seven come from
(09:01):
Samantha.
Jenn Donovan (09:01):
I wish I had a really good answer for that, but
I'm actually in the middle ofwriting a marketing book at the
moment.
It's all about marketing yourrural and regional small
business, which hopefully, youknow, people might actually get
to see it some stage if I everfinish it, but that's one of my
stories.
I have to say I really don'tknow where seven come from.
Seven, I wonder whether it waskind of you know, people talk
(09:24):
about like the 70 or somethinglike that, but I don't remember
having a conversation of youknow, should we do it for 10
years?
Should we do it for five years?
It was kind of like let's justdo it for seven and see how we
go.
I
Samantha Bell (10:18):
It's amazing though it's, it's really proof
that what you set your mind to,what you attach to, and you use
that as your driver, is what'sgoing to happen.
So what you think and what yousay to yourself is going to
become your reality, isn't it?
So you were so focused on beingsuccessful and doing this and
building it up for those sevenyears and that was really your,
(10:41):
your training round.
What you do now and yeah, andretail is so different to an
online service business.
Talk us through how, all thethings you've learnt from your
retail experience and how youlearnt your marketing.
How did you get all theconcepts and ideas?
Because now that's what youspecialize in marketing and
(11:04):
social media online.
It's a complete flip around.
Jenn Donovan (11:08):
Yeah, it is, and I think that one of the best
things and at hindsight she's awonderful thing like to look
back now and go yeah, that wasreally good, but at the time it
didn't feel so good.
But, like I said, I always hada marketing mentor when I was in
my retail business and therewas mastermind programs and for
(11:28):
years probably three, four yearsI sat in those mastermind
programs that were face to faceback then and I would travel to
Melbourne, which is three and ahalf hours from me.
I'd sit in a room for two dayswith not one other retailer, so
there'd be like 14 or 15 servicespace businesses and we would
talk about all the differentmarketing concepts and I would
(11:50):
sit there and go.
But how do I adapt that toretail?
How does this work for retail?
And I think every time I openmy mouth, the rest of the people
must have gone.
Oh, for God's sake, she's goingto ask how that relates to
retail.
But it just like.
I think it taught me to bereally analytical with things
and really think outside the box, because Not, admittedly, back
(12:11):
then we only had a very smallretail presence.
We were quite.
We had an eBay presence and wehad an online shop, but, look,
it didn't do a lot.
Our eBay business was probablymore successful than our actual
online business that we hadourselves, but our bricks and
mortar was, you know, the majorcontributor as far as a income
(12:33):
stream went.
So we weren't online as much aswhat you would be now, probably
if we had the same business.
But I think, being in that roomof people who thought
differently to me they spokedifferently to me I think there
was so much that I learnedsitting in that room, being
different to them and reallyhaving to think of things almost
(12:55):
, you know, I guess again,starting at the end of mine.
So if I want to do that, thenwhy do I do that in retail and
having to think backwards fromthere and it is something that I
teach a lot of my privateclients and things like that is,
you know, what's the goal onwork backwards, you know, let's
sort of, and so I guess I'veintroduced that thinking as part
(13:16):
of my, I guess, ip as to how Iteach people, you know, to grow
their businesses.
Samantha Bell (13:21):
So powerful and it's really yeah, it's really
taught you to be creative inyour thinking, into, like you
said, if there's a problem,you'll fix it.
You're working on how to getaround it, and that is the guts
of being an entrepreneur, isn'tit?
You've got to, because nothingruns smoothly.
No, no and if it does, you're introuble.
(13:44):
You need those little speedhumps along the way.
So talk to us about your socialmedia side of what you do,
social media marketing and whyit's important.
How social media marketing foronline service business is
different to an e-com businessand the whole thing.
Jenn Donovan (14:07):
I suppose, like social media is such an
important part of our marketing,but probably, I'd like to say
from the outset, it's not youronly marketing.
So if you are just doing socialmedia, then it's probably time
to think about what are themarketing?
Where else your ideal clientshanging out that you can tap
into them and market to them?
(14:28):
Because you know again, youknow, as your listener has
probably heard a thousand timesyou know you don't own that real
estate.
You know building empires onCrownland is not a good idea.
You know it could disappeartomorrow.
You probably, samantha, youprobably like me, you've
probably seen your social mediafeed at least a few times a week
that someone's been hacked,that they've lost their
(14:48):
Instagram account or lost theirFacebook account, and again it's
kind of like, yeah, you've gotno control.
So if that's all you're doing,then you know, perhaps it's time
to think outside the marketingbox.
So I just want to say thatfirst up yeah, and that's such
an important point.
Yeah, anyways, social media isstill plays such a huge part in
our marketing as such.
(15:09):
But I guess the biggestdifference that I see between
service-based businesses andretail businesses and I'm
generalising here it's you know,if you're listening you're like
, well, that's not me.
Then you know I'm trying, I amputting everyone in the same box
, but I find often thate-commerce businesses are always
in sales strategy mode.
(15:29):
They're like buy my candle, buymy candlestick, buy my balloon,
buy my dress, buy my shoes.
Like it's just bye, bye, bye,bye, bye.
So many service-based businessesare like leading with value,
which is amazing and that iswhat we're taught to do.
You know value first, but it'skind of like how far do I have
to actually scroll before I knowhow I can do business with you
(15:52):
or what it is that you actuallysell?
Or you know it's like almostmaking themselves hard to buy
from and not that sales strategy, like always in the maybe the
brand awareness strategy ormaybe you're in the engagement
strategy, but sort of you know,hold actions, yes, but the
actual buy this now a lot ofservice-based businesses are
(16:14):
kind of missed.
That that's probably thebiggest difference that I see,
and I think you've got to have acombination of everything you
know you've got to sometimessell, you've got to sometimes
not sell.
So I think that is probablywhere I see how I can help
people the most is sort of getthat overall strategy just a
little bit more succinct, thatyou're not always selling, but
(16:37):
you don't forget to sell at theright times, and things like
that.
So many service-based businessesare like leading with value,
which is amazing and that iswhat we're taught to do.
You know value first, but it'skind of like how far do I have
to actually scroll before I knowhow I can do business with you
or what it is that you actuallysell?
Or you know it's like almostmaking themselves hard to buy
from and not that salesstrategy, like always in the
maybe the brand awarenessstrategy or maybe you're in the
engagement strategy, but sort ofyou know, hold actions, yes,
but the actual buy this now alot of service-based businesses
are kind of missed.
That that's probably thebiggest difference that I see,
and I think you've got to have acombination of everything you
know you've got to sometimessell, you've got to sometimes
not sell.
So I think that is probablywhere I see how I can help
people the most is sort of getthat overall strategy just a
little bit more succinct, thatyou're not always selling, but
you don't forget to sell at theright times, and things like
that.
Samantha Bell (16:41):
Yeah, perfect, because a lot of my clients are
very uncomfortable with theselling.
So they're very happy to talkand give the value and to get
you know, build thatrelationship on social media.
But when it comes time tosaying buy now, they're like no,
I can't do it, and so that's abig piece of the puzzle missing,
(17:03):
isn't it?
Jenn Donovan (17:03):
Yeah, it is Because you know we're in the
business to make money, to sellsome things.
So it's and like, there will beobviously your clients who are
doing that are probably gettingsales, because there is a
certain percentage of peoplethat will just consume that
value and go oh, if this is whatI get for free, what do I get
if I pay?
(17:24):
And they're more likely to goand perhaps research that,
whereas there'll be certainother people that will be like
oh wow, great value, scroll by.
Oh wow, more great value,Scroll by.
And it's not until they see thepost that says join my
mastermind or, you know, buy myprogram or buy my thing.
They're like oh yeah, I likethis person, what is it that
(17:45):
they're selling?
So I guess at the end of theday, it's leaving money on the
table if you don't sort of havethat sales strategy.
And on the e-commerce side, Iguess it's sort of the other
side of not everyone wants to besold to all the time.
So it's like what else you gotfor me?
You know, I know you sellcandles, but hey, let's have a
(18:06):
bit more of a relationship thanthat transactional one.
And you know I have this.
I don't know where they'resaying come from.
I didn't make it up but I loveit and it's that people come for
the content but stay for thecommunity.
So they'll come for yourcontent and they'll hang around
for the community and they'llbecome repeat buyers because of
the community that you providethem or refer as through the
(18:28):
community that you sort of startto build.
So if you're just transactional, you know again you're leaving
money on the table.
Samantha Bell (18:36):
And that's something you focus on a lot in
your business is communitybuilding.
Jenn Donovan (18:41):
Yeah.
Samantha Bell (18:42):
Yeah, so what do you say to your clients to help
them build their community?
Jenn Donovan (18:46):
community Communities can come in all
sorts of different forms.
It can come in probably themost obvious one is a Facebook
group.
But not everyone wants to run aFacebook group and they're
getting harder and harder.
Like you know, back in 2018,snuckaberg made them a big thing
and we had great traction.
You know, now traction is, youknow, still a little bit iffy.
(19:07):
So they're not the be all inand all, but they're certainly
community focused if you makethem that way.
But it could be one of the otherthings I sort of talk about a
lot from social media.
Social media is a really greatplace to meet new people, but
the idea of being on socialshould be to get them off social
.
So you meet them on socialmedia, you nurture them a little
(19:28):
bit on social media, but thenyou want them on your email list
because that's where you canhave really dedicated
conversations.
You can split your list intoeveryone who wants to talk about
X as opposed to everyone whowants to talk about Y, who
doesn't want to hear about X andall of that sort of thing.
You have really deepconversations and deep nurturing
on your email list.
(19:49):
So that's sort of another waythat I would look at that A
community building is on youremail list.
You can sort of segment yourlist.
Otherwise, you know, you canjust build a community by, you
know, having a little, you knowDM group on LinkedIn or you know
a little group in Messenger orsomething like that.
(20:09):
So it can be really quitesimple or it can be, you know,
quite complex and you actuallyhave a membership or something
like that Exactly.
Samantha Bell (20:18):
And you make such a good point about email list
building and I think that's oneof the things that new
businesses or early on inbusiness they tend not to focus
on enough.
Yes, they don't see theimportance all about visibility
on the social or having yourwebsite right and everything.
You've really got to startearly to nurture those
(20:39):
relationships and also becauseyou own your email list.
Jenn Donovan (20:43):
Yes.
Samantha Bell (20:44):
And, yeah, you can control all of that and the
algorithms aren't going to muckit up for you.
Jenn Donovan (20:49):
I know exactly and people say, yeah, but how do
you get people to open youremails?
And I'm like, well, there'sobviously a strategy behind that
, but we're never really lookingfor 100% open.
Like, if you can get 20 or 30%of people on your list to open
your email, it's probably a lotbetter than the 5% 2% who might
see your social media posts.
(21:10):
So you've kind of got to gowith the data.
I'm all about making businessdecisions based on some data,
and digital marketing is a bitof a gift.
That way you can find lots ofdata to help you make those very
strategic decisions as well.
Absolutely.
Samantha Bell (21:27):
Yeah, it's really helpful to track everything in
your business.
It doesn't matter what it is,track it and open rates on your
emails too.
That's a more valuable openthan a social post being viewed,
because it's someone who'sactually chosen to click that
link to sign up to your emaillist and they're actually really
(21:48):
, they're more invested in you.
So an email open is probablymore valuable too.
So another reason to spend somemore time there.
Jenn Donovan (21:57):
Yeah, and look, even I would go so far as to say
the open rate isn't your onlymetric either.
Like it's top of mind marketing.
Like I send an email once aweek to my list and they might
not open it but they'll see myname.
Like, oh, it's Thursday,there's a new podcast out.
I must go listen to that.
Like they might even read theemail.
(22:17):
And like e-commerce.
You know, I've got a fewbusinesses that I subscribe to
and, admittedly, they probablyemail a little bit too often.
Maybe it's once a day orsomething, and I definitely
don't open every one of thoseemails.
But when I want a new skirt,guess who's top of mind Perseaps
landing in my inbox.
Yeah, so there's also metricsthat you can't measure as far as
(22:40):
the value of email marketing,because you don't know how many
people you've just reminded togo to your website, even though
they haven't opened your email,simply because they saw your
email come through Exactly.
Samantha Bell (22:52):
That's so, so.
True, I talked about socialmedia not being your market
marketing strategy, but I'm sortof moving back to social media
because that's a question that alot of people are still
confused about, particularly nowthat it's harder to get the
engagement that you once did.
It's harder to grow your flowof the list.
(23:12):
So what's a good way forsomeone to put together a really
solid social media strategywhen you know?
Obviously they have to know whothey're talking to and the
purpose that know their why andconnect the dots together.
Have you got any little tipsfor people listening?
Jenn Donovan (23:32):
Yeah, absolutely, and you're so right Like, if you
don't know, like, obviously,the fundamentals of marketing is
know who your who is.
You know, I come across so manypeople who are so many small
business owners and be like Ihate Instagram.
I'm just not, I don't likeInstagram, I'm not going on
Instagram.
You know this and that and allof a sudden we dig into who
(23:53):
their ideal client is and it'sthe people on Instagram and I'm
like well, it's not actuallyabout you, it's not about your
business and it's about yourclients and you know all your
customers and being showing upwhere they are.
So that's probably you know.
Obviously, knowing who your whois, knowing where they hang out
Obviously you want to be wherethey hang out and also having an
idea of what you want to befamous for, so that top of my
(24:15):
marketing, if they think handles, you want them to think you,
you know, they think socialmedia strategy.
You want them to think you,whatever it is that you're
actually selling, you want youknow to be famous for that
particular thing so that you aretop of mind when they want to
buy it.
But I think a good, solidsocial media strategy comes back
a little bit to what I wastalking about before, where, you
(24:38):
know, having a sales strategy.
You know I talk about fivedifferent strategies.
So there's the sales strategy,there's a brand awareness
strategy, a lead generationstrategy, a growth strategy and
an engagement strategy.
I hope I didn't say any ofthose twice.
No, you didn't.
It's sort of like trying to geta bit of a mix of each one of
(25:00):
those and, of course, somethingthat might be a lead generation
strategy.
For instance, you know I havethis lead magnet sign up here.
Then it could also be part ofyour brand awareness strategy.
So these things don't standalone.
And, of course, you know,something that is part of your
growth strategy could also bepart of your sales, or it could
be part of your lead gen orsomething like that.
(25:21):
So it's not like you need tothink, oh my gosh, I need you
know something for each one ofthose, but you just need to make
sure you've got some wellrounded strategies that you're
not always selling, you're notalways just leading with value
that you are putting out there.
You know your brand awareness.
What do you stand for?
What's your brand about?
This is who I am, type of thing.
(25:42):
So there's all that sort of.
That's how I sort of talk abouthow you can get a well rounded
strategy.
But of course there's the otherside with social media is it's
in the name.
You've got to be social, likeit is actually called social
media.
So then I start to talk about,you know, having a reach out
strategy, which I call my Hanseland Gretel strategy, basically
(26:04):
just spreading breadcrumbs allaround social media so that your
business name whatever, or yourname, depending on you know how
your business is run.
Is people sort of notice itbecause you're commenting on
this or you've, you know, addedsome value here, or you know
you've shared this person's postor you've said congratulations
over there.
You're just sort of sprinklingthose breadcrumbs to make people
(26:27):
curiosity killed the cat.
Basically, you want peoplecurious enough to go.
Is this person who's justcommented we're not connected
and you know, go over, have alook at your bio and go.
It's just insane to really go.
Oh, the content's awesome, I'mgoing to follow them.
Oh, there's something I'm goingto reach out about that.
So you know, again, it's justkind of having that reach out
(26:49):
strategy which I think a lot ofpeople, especially with
scheduling and I'm not againstscheduling, I think you know my
business wouldn't survivewithout scheduling in social
media, but you've got to spendthe time then to actually go to
social media and be social.
So, whether that's 10 minutes aday, whether that's 15 minutes
every two days, whatever that is, and you know, obviously,
(27:11):
replying to the people whoreplied to you, and also, you
know, I think, some love, youknow some social love around
there as well.
Samantha Bell (27:20):
That's it, and that's all part of that
community building that you weretalking about too.
Jenn Donovan (27:24):
Yes, exactly.
Samantha Bell (27:26):
You're very focused on helping the rural
community.
What sort of work do you do inyour community?
Jenn Donovan (27:33):
Yeah, I guess one of the reasons why I'm quite
focused on a rural community isbecause and this is going to
sound really terrible I reallyshould decide whether or not I'm
going to say it on a podcast,but anyway I'll say it.
But you know, when I was inbusiness, we would get these
people from, you know, sydneyand Melbourne coming down and
you know, talking to us aboutour businesses and I'd sit there
(27:55):
and go.
Really, do you really know whatit's like to run?
You know a business in thecountry, like you know, things
are a little bit different.
We don't have the numbers thatyou have in the cities.
I think I probably learn it'snot as different as what I
thought it was.
I do actually love to go in andyou know help rural and regional
small businesses, whether thatbe through workshops or keynotes
(28:18):
or just, you know, one-to-oneconversations with them, because
I really feel like I do gettheir business.
I get the peaks and the troughsof.
You know everything thathappens out here in rural
Australia.
You know there's always, youknow, something going on in a
community that can impact smallbusinesses.
You know, certainly when I hadmy retail business, if it wasn't
(28:39):
a drought and it wasn't a floodand there wasn't bushfires, it
was blue-green algae and thetourism, you know, tourists
weren't coming and there wasalways something that you had to
kind of go right.
Okay, what am I going to do now?
Because this is not going towork anymore because of X, y or
Z type of thing.
So I just love getting in and Ifeel that there's not as many
(29:01):
people out there helping ruraland regional small businesses.
So I guess that's kind of wheremy passion sort of lies.
And, like you know, my bigFacebook group by from Bush
Business, it sort of startedback in 2019, in October 2019,
we're going through horrificdrought back then.
It's hard to believe now wheneverything is just so wet and so
green, but you know, like fouryears ago it was horrific
(29:23):
droughts and it was October.
I was traveling around, youknow, the riverina and no one
was excited about Christmas,because one of the things when
you live in a rural area is, iffarmers don't have money, towns
don't have money.
Like you know, if farmers havea really good cropping season,
they're going to come to townand they're going to spend their
money.
It might not be with thejeweler but it might be, you
(29:44):
know, with the chemical guy whothen employs more people, that
they come and spend money in thejeweler, and you know it just
injects more money into thecommunity.
So I guess my thought was youknow how can I help like these
people get more traction intotheir business?
And a Facebook group justseemed like the obvious answer.
And little did I know thatbushfires, floods, covid and,
(30:07):
you know, a mouse plague weregoing to come.
But again, you know rural andregional communities would need
more and more help with.
So Absolutely.
Samantha Bell (30:17):
It's such a different perspective.
Like you did say at one point,marketing and the approach for
city is not too different tocountry, but in reality, the
real day to day living in thecity, we don't have all those
challenges that you do Like.
We can be in drought and wemight get some water
(30:37):
restrictions, yes, but that isnot the same as you not being
able to as a farmer, not beingable to do their core business
of crops or cattle dying or youknow.
It's a really huge impact thatwe don't understand so much.
So I think for the ruralcommunity, having someone who
(30:58):
really, really understands themand appreciates and values them
would be such a lovely breatheout moment.
They feel supported andconnected and having that
community, his community, isdifferent in the country too.
Jenn Donovan (31:14):
Yeah, it is yeah.
(31:56):
Like you know, I think thateveryone sort of learnt the
value of community during thattime and it's like, yeah, that's
what we kind of knew.
It's beautiful.
I'll view that already.
And now you know, everyone'skind of learning that power of
community.
But it is really important.
And again it comes to thatstory of mine of you know, four,
five, six years ago I wouldnever have said I was from the
(32:19):
country and now I wear it almostlike a badge of honour when I
get to get in front of you know,some rural, regional businesses
doing a workshop, and one ofthe first things is I say, you
know, I live on a farm and Ithink they're all kind of like
she gets it, yeah, straight away.
I built that rapport with them.
This is like yeah, okay, sheknows how it feels to run a
(32:40):
business, or she has some idea.
Like I don't know everythingbut, yes, has some empathy for
what we're going through.
Samantha Bell (32:46):
Yeah, you've got that connector there.
And for a farmer to go off whathe or she does every single day
to jumping on a Zoom call,that's a huge just.
They've had a lot of learningthat you know that we take for
granted every day.
Yeah, you're helping themthrough all of that.
It's wonderful.
Now tell us about your bookthat you're working on.
(33:09):
I was going to ask you beforewe started talking is it Secret
Squirrel Business?
Can we mention it?
But you brought it up, so Iknow that it's okay.
Yeah again.
Jenn Donovan (33:19):
It's just kind of like obviously I'm a marketer, I
love marketing.
I've always thought there's abook inside me but never really
knew what that sort of lookedlike.
And it was just a bit of a tapon the shoulder from one of my
mentors.
It's like is there any booksout there that talk to rural and
regional small businesses aboutmarketing?
I'm like I don't know thatthere is, and so that's just
(33:41):
kind of where the idea came from.
But it's basically a tips book,so I'm not sure how many tips
it'll have in it at the moment.
I think at the moment I'msitting at about 123.
So it'll be something like 123ways to market your business in
the country or something alongthose lines.
And the idea of the book is notnecessarily to read it cover to
(34:03):
cover, but to be able to openit go.
I haven't tried a Facebook ad.
What does Jen say about aFacebook ad?
Oh, okay, this is how you sortof do that.
Or magazine advertising Jennyhitting me, is that really
something in 2023?
Yeah, I didn't realize.
This, this and this, oh, that'sreally interesting.
I should perhaps look furtherinto that or try that.
(34:25):
Or networking you know, ifthere's not a network, maybe
it's time you started one typeof thing Draft one is done,
draft two is half done, sohopefully it won't be too far
away by the time this yearfinishes out.
That sounds brilliant.
Samantha Bell (34:41):
Just the perfect type of book that you can pick
up and go to I've been thinkingabout this, or someone mentioned
that and just go to that partand then you can guide them
along for that little bit andthey can try it and pop the book
down and pick it up again whenthey need.
Jenn Donovan (34:55):
Yeah, that's exactly what I want people to do
, absolutely.
And again, marketing isn't thatdifferent in the country, but
the way we talk about it is justa little bit different, and so
I feel that, you know, justputting it on their level, like
talking about towns as opposedto suburbs, and talking about
community as opposed to this,and just little different things
(35:17):
that is just slightly different.
I'm excited.
It'll be really good, hopefully, and doesn't have a name yet.
Samantha Bell (35:24):
Have we got a name to look out for?
Jenn Donovan (35:26):
It doesn't have a name yet but, like I said, it'll
probably be something like 123ways to market your business in
the country or something Verymuch have a title.
Say what it is Like my businessis social media and marketing
history.
Yes, what we do.
My podcast is, you know, smallBusiness Made Simple.
Yes, what I'm trying to do.
(35:46):
I'm kind of like don't leavethem guessing.
Samantha Bell (35:49):
That's brilliant.
Well, we'll keep an eye out forthat and maybe when it's
launched you can come back onand tell us all about the book.
Yeah, I would love that.
So have you got any little lastsnippets of wisdom to leave for
anybody today?
I?
Jenn Donovan (36:03):
think, probably just reiterating a couple of
things that I've said.
Just nudges.
I love to give people nudgesbut, like you said, a lot of
people when they're starting out, perhaps they don't concentrate
so much on email marketing.
We tend to go straight toopening our social accounts and
working from there.
It's never too late to start anemail list and it's something
(36:26):
that I would highly recommendthat people, if you're not doing
it, to start doing it.
And if you've got a list andyou're not nurturing that list,
then you know, perhaps have abit of a think about what that
strategy could look like.
And also, maybe do an audit onyour social media, from what
we've kind of talked about.
Do you ever sell?
Do you always sell?
(36:46):
Are you sort of building yourbrand or what is it that you're
doing in your social media?
And just have a bit of a Iguess, a strategic look and go.
Gosh, it was three months agothe last time I shared a photo
of myself or shared anythingabout my business, so it was six
weeks ago since I asked peoplethat they would like to buy
something.
Or, on the other hand, it'sjust like that's all I ever do.
(37:09):
He's asked people to buy mythings Gosh.
I need to have a bit more of awell-rounded strategy and just
start there just with a bit of,I guess, analysis, audit and a
bit more thinking, and maybe goand have a look at some people
that you really love on theplatforms and have a look about.
You know, what does theirstrategy look like and things
like that.
So that's probably the twobiggest things.
(37:31):
And also, social media is youronly marketing.
Please start to think outsidethe square because, a it's not a
great way to run a business,but B really would hate for you
to have lost that and thereforereally have that impact on your
business in a negative way.
Gosh, it was three months agothe last time I shared a photo
of myself or shared anythingabout my business, or it was six
weeks ago since I asked peopleif they would like to buy
something.
Or, on the other hand, it'sjust like that's all I ever do,
isask people to buy my things.
Gosh.
I need to have a bit more of awell-rounded strategy and just
start there just with a bit of,I guess, analysis, audit and a
bit more thinking, and maybe goand have a look at some people
that you really love on theplatforms and have a look about.
You know, what does theirstrategy look like and things
like that.
So that's probably the twobiggest things.
And also, social media is youronly marketing.
Please start to think outsidethe square because, it's not a
great way to run a business, butB really would hate for you to
have lost that and thereforereally have that impact on your
business in a negative way.
Samantha Bell (37:50):
So absolutely that's so, so important and a
really good tip to have a lookat what you're actually doing
and pull that to pieces, becausewhat you think you're doing
might be completely differentfrom what you're actually doing,
and it's not until you deepdive into that that you figure
that out.
Jenn Donovan (38:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Samantha Bell (38:08):
Fabulous Well.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today, Jenn.
Jenn Donovan (38:11):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure, it's been such
a great.
I don't.
There's a few stories that I'vetold you that I don't think
I've ever told before or, youknow, heard myself talk about.
So it's been.
You've been a great questionask us.
So, thank you, oh, thank you.
Samantha Bell (38:25):
It's lovely to chat with you and I know our
listeners will appreciate it too, and I'll make sure to put
links to you and your servicesin the show notes.
And have you got a particularlead generation thing you want
to share today, or anything likethat?
Jenn Donovan (38:43):
Yeah, certainly Thanks, samantha.
Probably one of the biggestquestions I get asked is you
know what to post on socialmedia?
So I have a lead magnet that is108 social media content
creation ideas, which isprobably my most downloaded lead
magnet.
It's not fancy.
The idea is that it's printable, so it's not full of, you know,
pretty pictures or anythinglike that, but there is
(39:04):
literally 108 ways to marketyour business in that.
So you can find that at108socialcomau, or just go to my
website and have a look underthe freebie section.
My website, of course, issocial media marketingcomau
Perfect.
Samantha Bell (39:20):
I'll pop those those two links down below too.
Jenn Donovan (39:25):
Yeah, it's been fun.
Thanks, Samantha.
Samantha Bell (39:32):
Thanks so much for listening.
I'd love to know your biggesttakeaway from today's episode,
so leave me a comment below orsend a DM on Instagram.
If you enjoyed this episode,hit the subscribe button
wherever you listen to theBrilliant Business, beautiful
Life podcast and feel free toshare it with someone else
who'll love it too.
I look forward to seeing youfor the next episode and
(39:54):
remember the time is now foryour Brilliant Business and the
beautiful life you adore.
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