May 1, 2025 • 33 mins
Tom Decker, author of "When Can You Do It?", a sales process for home service professionals joins Jim Klauck on this episode of Bring On Success.
Tom wrote the book - When Can You Dot It: When Can You Do It?. Get It On Amazon Here!
By following Tom's "When Can You Do It?" Sales Process you will learn and understand how to WOW your customers, how to make them see that you are offering is superior to anything your competition may have. You will se you ticket average, your closing rate, your commissions, and your bottom line increase exponentially. Being the best in-home salesperson in your company is within your grasp. You just need the right process. When Can You Do It? is that process.
To contact Tom Decker you can email him- tom@theatticdepot.com
Enjoy the show!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'm excited to have on the bring on success radio program with me,
my good friend Tom Decker.
Hey,
Tom,
how are you?
Good.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great.
So I wanted to have you on Tom because you recently wrote this great book.
When can you do it?
And um,
I'm familiar with this book because I actually wrote the forward to it and you and I have quite a long history together.
(00:25):
And so before we get into all of that,
why don't you quickly just talk about the book and its purpose and how you can help home service providers with this book?
Yeah,
I think the purpose was,
uh,
I think a lot of people,
like,
I do a lot of training and things and a lot of people come to me and then they have all these objections that the customers give them and they're like,
well,
how do you overcome this objection?
(00:46):
How do you overcome this one?
And I'm like,
you know,
I really don't get many of these objections that you're talking about.
I think the reason being is it's to me it's all about the presentation.
It's everything really from,
like you were talking about some of the stuff we did in the past.
But the,
the marketing setting that up,
the initial phone call,
how important that is when your CS R takes the call,
the salesman going out getting five star reviews,
(01:08):
the technicians doing a superior job,
getting referrals.
It's like everything all encompassing in one to get the customer at the end when I and I get a kick out of it when I train people and they read the book and they'll actually have people call me or they'll email me.
And I went out my first call after I read the book and the customer actually said,
when can you do it?
And they're like blown away.
And I'm like,
yeah,
that's the point.
That's what we want them to say.
We don't want to have to beg for the sale.
(01:30):
So that's why I wrote the book.
When can you do it?
Yeah.
And,
and so I love the title of the book.
I love the book.
And um I really appreciated the opportunity to be able to write the forward in the book and just to give everyone who's,
who's listening and watching a little bit of history with uh Tom and I,
we've known each other for some time and back in 2017 and 2018 to make a long story short,
(01:52):
Tom and I were on the radio together doing what we call direct response radio.
Um when he had his attic insulation business.
And we were talking about solar attic fans and we were talking about attic insulation and ways to be efficient.
And what's interesting is,
is Tom,
and I kind of discovered a lot of things that ended up being,
you know,
(02:13):
in Tom's book eventually,
which was when you educate the listener and you tell them who you are,
what you are,
they get to know,
you know,
like and trust they get to understand the product,
how much it costs,
how long it takes to put in.
By the time,
uh,
Tom went out to the home,
the homeowner said,
(02:34):
when can you do it?
I mean,
you,
you,
they already knew everything,
right?
Yeah,
I call it,
call teeing up your sales people for success.
So I know we had this conversation a while back.
So,
you know,
I did the radio with you and then I would go do the quotes.
That's how it started.
Well,
then everything blew up and I wasn't always able to do all the quotes and we're like,
well,
what if we send another salesman out?
Are they gonna be asking for me?
(02:54):
Cause that's what they heard on the radio.
We're like,
I don't know,
let's just try it.
And I went out there and our sales guys were calling in 80% because they were following the same system and we,
the marketing was so good on the radio side.
We did have the customer teed up for success.
They were ready to go.
They're ready to say,
what can you do?
They wanna use you.
And if you read,
when you read the book,
everything in there is really a lot about just eliminating the competition.
(03:19):
What I mean by that is like,
you know,
they had two or 34 quotes when you get all done,
the customer has no choice but to use your company as the service provider because nobody can compete.
It almost feel like it's not even fair.
I do mentoring and stuff all over the country and I'll go on people like how I don't get this.
I'm like,
yeah,
it's not even fair is it,
it's unbelievable when you do things right from the get go from that,
(03:41):
you know,
the branding and the marketing to the presentation and everything in between there.
The customer is always like,
yeah,
when can you do it?
This sounds amazing and that's the whole idea and that's why uh that's why I wrote the book.
So people could kind of get a flavor of what I'm talking about because you could tell people stuff.
Oh yeah,
it's all about the presentation.
Well,
that's ok.
Well,
what do we do with that?
So I'm like,
(04:01):
we read the book,
let's start there and then we'll do some other things to really get you going.
So the book is really the place to start and uh gives you a nice overview and I love,
you know,
having people read it,
I go to different,
um,
seminars and things and they'll always be somebody in the audience and they'll hold up my book and they're like,
I've got them,
I'm like,
oh,
you went to Amazon,
you got,
you got the copy of the book.
Yeah,
I bought it.
(04:22):
I bought one for my whole crew.
Everybody,
the whole sales department has got one,
they love it.
It's,
you know,
and that's the other thing is really,
I'd like to make what I do that's in the book.
And it's really simple for people to follow.
It's not a bunch of jargon,
fancy sales terms.
Get everybody all confused.
It's like no,
just kind of follow this and you'll be in really good shape.
(04:43):
Yeah,
I love the book so much.
I got a whole bunch of copies.
I give it out to people all the time because I work with home service providers on a regular basis.
My job also is to help them grow and so forth.
And so here's the book and there is a link in the description of this podcast to order this book on Amazon.
And um also if you reach out to me and I have some extra ones,
(05:08):
I may send you one.
So in any case,
it's,
it's a great book and I did write the forward in the book and,
and,
and so it's really exciting.
I don't know if I mentioned this before when we were talking about a few moments ago because I forgot Tom.
But within a year from the sales process that,
that you and I were using and ultimately is now in the book or a lot of us in the book,
(05:28):
we tripled your business.
So when your team went out there to close,
these people were ready to close,
which means you got so much of it done ahead of time.
You guys could make more sales calls.
You had more wins.
When you have more wins,
your confidence goes up,
you've got more reviews and it just snowballs.
Yeah.
And I think you can actually,
(05:50):
as a,
as a business owner,
you can actually have better sales people.
They want to come and work for you when they have better leads and when you've trained them.
So that's why people like,
well,
what's your advice for our,
our sales team?
Train,
train,
train?
That's all I can tell you more training.
They all need training three or four hours a week,
do role playing,
go out with them,
keep them on track,
(06:10):
make sure they're following the system.
And if you do that,
I mean,
you'll go,
you know,
from,
you can go from a I tell people you go from a million dollars to $3 million basically overnight.
Just for an example,
if you're doing three million will take you to six or nine million.
Just over the difference when you start adding in the closing percentage.
And then a ticket average raised,
you know,
40 50% higher closing rate,
(06:32):
40% higher ticket average.
You can literally go from a million dollars to three million with the same amount of leads.
Nothing else has changed except for now your cost,
your company is super profitable because you have a system that's really the whole idea.
It's,
and it's,
it's,
it's really that simple.
You know,
a lot of people think once they graduate from high school,
they don't have to study anymore.
(06:52):
Unfortunately,
that's not true.
And so,
uh,
if,
if you don't want to,
uh,
study and learn,
you should really get a job and make sure your boss or the owner of that company does want to study and learn so they force you to do it.
And I'm being a little tough here on you,
but you really need to,
as a sales professional,
you need to be coached,
you need to study constantly and once you do,
(07:16):
you're like,
oh,
I see that.
And,
ok,
that makes sense.
You become more confident.
You win more and you make more money.
Yeah,
I,
yeah,
I tell people all the time,
it's like,
spend more time perfecting your craft,
working on yourself,
be a better version of you every day.
And if you'll do that,
quit comparing yourself to other people because that's a lot of smoke and mirrors.
(07:37):
But you know what you're doing now and then what,
how we could be better.
And that's really the whole idea when you,
when you read books and I'm always constantly reading different books,
going to seminars trying to make myself better,
even though I'm,
I'm good at it,
but I always learn more stuff and,
and when awkward situations come up,
I'm like the more awkward the better because then I really want to get in there because it's gonna make you a better person.
(07:58):
And that's why the training and going out is really the key to most sales people's success.
And people I say all the time,
they have a little bit of success and they think they're on top of the mountain top and I say they're really just on standing on top of a molecule.
They really haven't,
they don't understand how much better it could be when you have a little success.
It's almost,
(08:18):
you're almost better off with a catastrophic failure because that way,
you know,
ok,
I've got to make some changes when you have a little success,
you get a little delusional to where you're really at.
And it's like,
well,
are you making $100 million a year?
Well,
no,
we're doing 350,000.
I think we're doing pretty good.
I mean,
I hear all these things all the time.
It's like,
well,
what if you could just be a little bit better?
Why,
why not do it?
And that's,
(08:39):
that's the whole key to success.
Always get,
make yourself a little bit better every day.
Don't worry about what everybody else is doing.
Just work on you.
Yeah.
Whenever I talk to a home service professional that's gone through any type of training,
whether Tom has helped him out or some other professional.
It's funny they go,
wow.
You know,
we're gonna triple our volume this year.
(09:01):
And so I asked him how,
well,
because I work with Tom.
Well,
I work with,
you know,
anyone who does what Tom can do.
I mean,
really Tom is great but,
you know,
whatever you do you got to read,
listen,
go to,
um,
seminars and conferences.
You've got to get a coach,
(09:22):
even the best golfers like Tiger Woods have had coaches and we all need all that stuff and,
um,
you should really reach out to Tom though,
get his book for sure.
Go online,
get his book,
reach out to Tom because Tomm is one of the most caring people.
I know I've known him for a very long time.
I've seen him build many businesses and now what he gets a real kick out of is building your business.
(09:44):
So that's fun.
Yeah.
Oh,
I love doing this.
That's really passionate.
I still have other businesses as well,
but I really like the in home sales piece of,
of the business because that's where we see the deficiencies with other companies.
And like I said,
people,
they think they've got a little success and it could be so much better.
I hear this all the time and then if people will just listen,
(10:06):
be a better listener,
man,
it will just change your whole life.
It's,
it's hard to believe.
Some people make $100,000 a year and I think they're doing pretty good and I'm like,
some people make $10 million a year and they think they're a failure.
I mean,
it just depends where you wanna be.
It's kind of crazy.
It's not all about money to me.
I don't do anything for money anymore.
I was trying to just,
I'm just there to help and I really start from that place and I think that's why when you're at a customer's house,
(10:29):
if you're coming from a place where you're always just trying to help,
you're not trying to sell them anything,
you're coming up with solutions.
If you can help them and not tell them all the time,
you know,
if there's a better option,
you want to go a different direction,
you know,
I'm still here to help you.
I'm not worried about the sale.
We don't make that much on any given sale.
So it really doesn't matter to me.
I'm not gonna,
I tell them I'm not gonna miss a meal,
you know,
don't feel bad if you want to go a different direction and the more I take it away they're like they're reaching over the table practically.
(10:53):
Tom.
No.
No,
we want to use you.
I'm like,
OK,
but I just,
I just want,
I don't want you to have,
feel like you have to use me.
I want you to wanna use our company or the company that I'm working with because I'm always going,
it's like wherever whoever I'm going with like that's my company.
Like I work there,
but that's the whole idea is we want that customer to wanna use us and I don't have to go out and say,
(11:14):
hey,
you gotta sign this 20 page document.
We're locking you down,
you're gonna pay half down because we're scared you're gonna cancel.
We don't need to do any of that because customers are gonna go with us.
They can have an agreement like whatever we set the terms on,
that's fine.
But I don't tell people like I'm like,
if you want to go a different direction,
go just have at it,
I'm still here to help because that's how I start the day off.
(11:35):
I'm just gonna go out and I'm just gonna help as many people as I can.
And if I do that,
the money always comes,
my dad taught me that a long time ago.
Don't worry about the money,
the money will come.
If you do things the right way upfront,
helping people,
the more you're helping people,
the better you're gonna be,
the better everything you're doing and the better off they're gonna be.
And that's a win.
So that's kind of why,
like,
always gonna be a win,
win,
win situation.
(11:56):
Well,
you've always said that Tom,
if it's,
uh,
you know,
two parties it's win,
win.
If it's three,
it's,
win,
win,
win.
And a lot of people don't think that's possible.
They think,
uh,
one party has to lose somewhere and that's not,
that's not necessarily true.
And so I want to go back to the education thing,
education,
education,
education.
So we all need to educate,
we need to read books,
(12:17):
we need to listen to them,
we need to go to seminars.
You may even want to write a book.
If you write a book and you're teaching others,
you're really going to have to learn more and retain more.
But the reason why education is so important is we don't want to as sales professionals be selling,
we want to educate and when we educate our prospects,
(12:38):
they make a decision to buy.
When your prospect makes the decision to buy,
you're gonna make a sale.
It's that simple.
Yeah,
it used to be,
you know,
always be selling.
That was the thing I was always be selling.
I'm like,
no,
always be helping and all the sales will come.
It's that it's that simple.
Don't worry about what everybody else is doing.
Don't worry about what everybody else is saying.
(12:59):
Don't worry about everybody else's pricing.
Pricing.
I hear all these things that,
well,
our price is a little higher.
So we have a hard time.
I'm like,
no,
well,
you just don't have a high perceived value.
The customer is not seeing the perceived value of what you're offering versus what the,
the other contractors are offering.
If they see the perceived value is double or triple,
I'm gonna have people.
Sometimes I go out and look at it,
say a particular whatever they job is and it's $2000 and like,
(13:22):
oh,
I got a quote for 1700.
Why are you $300 more?
I'm like,
if you want us to do it for 1700 I'll do it for 1500 if you want the same service.
But there's a big difference in our service in our products.
We're gonna give you what you're paying for.
I don't go out there and sell you the highest ticket or the highest price thing we have.
And then try to be the cheapest guy like can take out,
(13:45):
you know,
say it's an installation company.
It was like,
you know,
I don't try to sell you a $2000 say a job and it's,
it's gonna take 20 bags of installation just for easy math.
And then I sell it to the customer and then tell my,
my installers,
hey,
see if you can just put 12 or 10 bags in there,
we'll make more money.
But that's what the other companies do.
But when you explain that to the homeowner,
it's like I can batch or meet any price.
(14:06):
But that's,
but that's not gonna do you the,
the service,
you only write the check once.
Let's,
let's do it right the first time.
And let's get you a lifetime of energy savings and comfort.
For example,
on that kind of scenario or roofing.
Same thing you want us to be a,
a certain price.
Well,
we'll just use four nails instead of five or six.
We'll use a cheaper shingle.
We'll use a cheaper ridge.
We won't use the ice and water shield.
(14:27):
We won't use a starter row.
We'll,
we'll do all kinds of different things to get the,
the price down.
But you're not getting the roof life out of it like you could have if we do everything right with the ventilation,
the right underlays and everything we can get you 30 years out of that 30 year roof,
not,
you know,
we do a 30 year roof and we get 12 or 15 years out of it and the roof shot.
Did you really save any money?
I think you're spending more.
(14:48):
So,
it just depends how you look at it.
So that's why I said it's always about high perceived value and perceived value doesn't mean that it really costs more money.
Like if you're uh a roofing company and you got your,
your trucks are all lettered up.
You guys got company shirts on,
you look very professional.
You only pay for that stuff once it really isn't costing your company that much more money.
But it does give you a lot higher perceived value.
But there's,
and I have a whole thing and when I do training and stuff to,
(15:10):
to treat how do we create high perceived value that doesn't really cost us a lot of money to do.
And we,
and we touch on the,
in the book,
but that's really the key is that creating a high perceived value.
And that doesn't necessarily mean a high price.
People buy on value,
not really on price.
People almost always buy on value unless they're just a price shopper.
And there's always going to be that customer,
(15:32):
that homeowner consumer that will buy on price,
but they often buy cheap products.
I don't even like the word cheap.
People use the word cheap when they're selling stuff.
I never like to do it when I sell stuff.
I like to call it inexpensive cheap to me.
Um Means it's junk.
And so there are people who are cheap and I don't like to sell the cheap people.
(15:53):
And as a home service professional,
you shouldn't want to sell the cheap people.
You want to sell to people who really want to buy value even if they don't have a lot of money.
And Tom has a lot of experience where,
where,
you know,
he may have heard from someone in his office before he went out to the home.
I don't think Mrs Smith really can afford this.
Tom would go out anyway to find out.
Even though Mrs Smith didn't have a lot of resources.
(16:14):
He made it work because she said she was gonna die in that house and she was only 60 and she planned to live to 90.
So she decided over the next 30 years she wanted that peace of mind and that comfort and longevity and therefore Tom closed it.
Yeah,
that's what I like really having that conversation with the homeowner and when you should win them over,
I love when they tell me,
(16:35):
you know,
Tom,
I'm,
you know,
I'm on a fixed income or I have a certain budget and I really just can't go over it.
And this is the reasons why they're just open with me and I'm like,
we can work with that number.
We might have to break this up into a couple pieces.
We might have to change a product.
Maybe we,
uh instead of doing this,
we can do this X Y and Z,
we,
we'll figure it out and I tell them like,
(16:55):
let's just look at everything because a lot of times they'll tell me that and I get through everything and they're like,
you know what?
That's actually not bad.
That's about what I was thinking it was gonna be,
but I was hoping it wasn't gonna be some astronomical number,
but it was just our normal price.
Like we didn't come down on the price.
We just came out and just did the job quoted it the right way,
went through everything and they seen the value and,
you know,
they're like,
(17:15):
oh,
I could finance it over 3 to 5 years and make it more palatable and get it done and be done with this.
So there's always a way.
But you,
that's where you have to have this conversation.
And I really like,
I call it a conversation presentation versus just a presentation.
We don't want to just go out and just throw up a bunch of information on people.
That's not what we're doing.
We want to have a conversation with them.
And as we do that conversation,
(17:36):
we get to where we want to be.
And a lot of times people about halfway through my,
my presentation,
like,
well,
how much is all this gonna cost?
I'm like,
oh,
that's the easy part.
Don't even worry about that.
You know,
I'll tell them.
So I have a 95% close rate.
That means if I walk into 100 houses,
95 people are buying it from me because they like our products.
They like our service.
They like the presentation.
We'll figure out the price.
(17:56):
We're gonna make that work.
Don't,
don't worry about that just to get them off of that price.
Let me,
let me show you everything.
We can do an offer and then we can break some things down and I always get a notebook out and I'll start spitballing with them,
kind of giving them some options and,
and figure out where their,
their comfort level is because I'm not big on going into a customer's house on certain things,
certain things I would ask for a budget,
say I was out with the kitchen remodeling company kind of need to know what kind of budget we have,
(18:19):
you know,
to do this because it a $30,000 kitchen or 100 versus if we go into like,
say we're gonna do insulation or something.
They got a hot house,
they can't keep it cool,
for example.
But what's I don't ask them what the budget is because they don't know that there's more to it than say just insulation,
there is ventilation,
there's all kinds of different products that we offer.
So then I would go through that and show and then we'll figure out that I figure out their budget with them.
(18:43):
They become part of the solution,
the customers,
it's their story.
So you kind of work with that and that helps a lot versus just saying,
hey,
what's your budget?
Because they,
they don't know what their budget is that.
They just say,
well,
I got three quotes for uh they were about $1,802,000 piece.
So I guess I got a $2000 budget and then I walk out and it's $5800 and they're smiling ear to ear.
It's like,
what?
Of course I gave them more stuff we did.
(19:04):
We're doing more,
we're gonna get them more energy savings,
more comfort.
The roof lasts longer.
Everything over time.
So that's kind of the idea of when you go out,
when you're doing sales is don't you have to listen to,
you,
listen to the customer,
but you don't necessarily have to take everything they're saying as the gospel,
a lot of it kind of changes as you're going through the presentation.
That's how we have that conversation presentation.
Yeah,
you really need to listen.
(19:25):
We're told to listen more than we talk and often people don't know what they really want to buy.
So,
you know,
Tom's office may have gotten a phone call years ago and the homeowner says I need insulation because they think they need installation.
And the reason why they think they need insulation is because their second floor was really hot and it's summer time.
(19:50):
So that's what they think.
So when Tom goes out to the home,
he talks to them and they say we need more insulation and Tom doesn't say,
oh,
yeah,
you know,
you probably need six inches,
I'll give it to you.
He starts asking questions to find out what they really want is they want to be more comfortable in their home and they want to save money ultimately.
(20:12):
So Tom says,
ok,
now let me go up in the attic and take a look.
Oh,
you know what you do need another six inches.
And by the way,
you don't have any ventilation up here.
So it's not just installation,
ma'am,
it's actually ventilation as well and you may even be able to help him out with,
you know,
maybe,
um,
you know,
something to,
to,
uh,
uh,
you know,
shore up,
(20:33):
uh,
that huge loss of air in the staircase that you pull down.
Right.
The draft master you call that right.
So,
so products like that before you know it,
they're not buying insulation,
they're buying a solution,
they're buying a solution.
Yes.
Um That is key and that's why I like to have a presentation to kind of go through the products before we look at the actual product or the project.
(20:54):
So that's how I started off.
I was,
you know,
great build Rapport.
That's in the book because we got 30 to 60 seconds to do that.
We get to the customer's house.
We're gonna ask him some discovery questions,
kind of figure out their mindset,
get some feedback.
It's really to get feedback from them.
It's not just to ask questions.
I don't just every question I ask,
I tell them why I'm asking the question.
So because I want to create this conversation back and forth and then we'll go into a presentation kind of show everything that we were to offer that we have available and say,
(21:21):
I don't know if you need any of this or all of it.
I haven't been up and looked at the project yet,
but once we look at the project,
we'll come back down,
I'll make some recommendations.
So then after that,
we show them that presentation and we'll look at the project,
we come back down,
we're gonna give them the recommendations.
Like if it was,
I always say if it was my house,
if it was my mom's house,
this is what I would recommend.
Then if there's any tax incentives available,
(21:42):
there's some different,
you know,
different products have different tax,
federal tax credits.
Uh There's some of the energy departments have different credits.
We'll look at that,
then we'll look at like the federal tax credits as well.
Then we'll show them some,
if it's something we could save them some energy on,
say a new H VAC system,
maybe a roof,
we could save them some money on energy.
We put a,
a lower,
you know,
(22:02):
a,
a lighter color shingle.
They have some other shingles that actually have like a radiant barrier put into them.
So different things and we'll show them what the projected energy savings would look like over say 10 years stretch that out a little bit.
And then after that,
then we spitball three or four options with them.
I get a notepad on and I'm like,
ok,
we got these three things.
Let's start here and then like,
ok,
I think I wanna go with the second one.
(22:23):
Boom.
Ok,
then we'll go to the next,
uh,
uh,
products and kind of work our way through it.
So we build the,
the ticket or the project with the customer.
I don't come back down out of an attic or off of a roof or look at an H VAC system and say this is what you need and then give them a price then like,
oh,
then,
now it's all about the price again.
So forget that we're gonna go through the items and we'll kind of spitball some like,
(22:44):
you know,
hey,
if we went with the uh,
a 16 Sea Ach Vac system,
it's gonna run,
you know,
I'll spit that ball with them just to kind of see where their,
where their mindset that's gonna run at 8 $10,000 complete brand new system.
10 year warranty out of sight,
out of mind,
you have to think about it.
We'll maintain it for the next 10 years will cost you a penny from,
for the next 10 years.
They might like,
that might be a good option for them.
(23:04):
Or they might have an option to say,
well,
what if we just replace the evaporator coil upstairs because it's leaking or let's just,
can we just replace the compressor?
Yep.
And we could,
yes,
we can do that.
And then we'll kind of go through those numbers and say,
you know,
the problem is we put a new compressor in there and then the whole air conditioner is basically old except for this new compressor.
You spent $4000 on the compressor could have spent eight,
got a new system and the next year you're spending 8000 on a new system because something else went wrong and you've had it now,
(23:29):
you've dropped $12,000 on the same system.
We could have just fixed it today and been done with it and then we'll show them those energy savings over time.
But did you know,
the system will actually pay for itself just in energy savings?
You know,
plus every,
every,
you know,
July 4th week and your air condition is not going out because you got a brand new unit.
A lot of people just want to buy from peace of mind.
So all these different things is kind of the way that you want to sell things,
(23:50):
create a nice presentation,
go through that,
get that feedback from the customer.
And like I said,
that's why I wrote the book and put that all in there to kind of get people the flavor of what we're doing.
There is no step by step by step for each individual industry because it depends on the customer,
the project,
the the the pricing,
you know how pricing is going up and down.
(24:10):
There's so many variables,
but it's you as the salesman to put all of this together and work out a good solution for the homeowner.
You're kind of a solution solver.
You're like the coach of the team,
you gotta figure out everybody's personalities and you gotta make them all work together and we need to win the big game.
That's the whole idea.
And if so,
if we can't put that together,
we need another coach.
(24:31):
You know,
when I talk about that a lot of times,
you know,
I go to a company and I'm like,
damn,
man,
morale is at an all time low.
I walk in.
That's,
that's how I start my presentation.
They're like,
what,
who is this guy?
And then I'll start telling why.
I think that and they're like,
oh yeah,
it's rough around here.
And I'm like,
well,
it starts at the top and works its way down and you guys are all just poisoning each other.
(24:51):
You might be better off apart.
I mean,
I don't get into all that but it's,
it's crazy.
So,
but it's like I said,
it's,
that's why my shirt says W 3 60.
It's,
we have a whole system from,
from start to finish,
from branding,
advertising and marketing to the magical moment when a customer says,
when can you do it?
That's really the model that we preach.
And that's why I had that book and that's kind of where we started.
(25:13):
So,
Tom,
I think a lot of people probably say that.
Well,
it's easy for Tom Decker,
but I can't do this.
Can't you turn anyone who wants to be turned into a sale superstar or a sale superstar.
Almost anybody that will listen.
And they'll take,
yeah,
they'll take the information in if they can take the information in because like I said,
(25:33):
we make it very palatable where they can understand it.
It's not something that's so crazy that they just couldn't understand it.
And I don't try to confuse people.
I've been to some different training or some people doing training and I feel like they try to almost confuse you.
So like,
oh,
I gotta get the system.
It's like,
no,
I'm not trying to confuse you.
I'm trying to work through this with you to figure out a good system.
(25:54):
So to answer the question,
I think almost anybody,
if they've got a decent personality,
of course,
they want,
they need to have the energy to go do it.
I think that's where I see a lot of people get into trouble.
I'd always say one of my saying is,
you know,
it's tough on the streets when you're out doing in home sales,
you're doing a lot of driving around,
you gotta keep your,
your head straight and get out there and just keep moving forward.
(26:17):
But that's the problem with a lot of people.
They,
they get distracted,
they're on their phone,
their wife is yelling and the kids are this and this and that and they're all over the place.
I'm like,
just focus when you pull up to the house that's in the,
it's in the book too.
It's like put your game face on.
Yeah,
that's what you're here to do.
That's your whole mission in life for the next hour.
If you can't put that hour aside,
call the customer and say you have an emergency and you need to reschedule and that shouldn't be happening.
(26:41):
But if it does things happen,
so think more like that.
But a lot of people,
they get to the customer's house and they're so used to going through the motions,
spending five or 10 minutes in and out of houses.
They think it's just a numbers game.
I'm like,
yeah,
but your numbers are all jacked up because you're not,
you're not in your deals.
You two out of 10,
2 out of 10 is not a good uh ratio.
That's not gonna work.
(27:01):
No,
when you like,
I like to shoot for 100%.
I'll say 10 out of 10.
That's what we're shooting for now.
We don't always get 10 out of 10 but say you end up with eight out of 10.
Ok,
we're doing pretty good.
But I,
I go out with a lot of sales people and like all we call is 18 2030%.
It's not too bad.
I'm like,
what do you consider bad?
I mean 30%.
That means 70% of the time you're just walking out with nothing.
(27:22):
You just,
you blew it and the ones you did sell,
what are those ticket averages?
Look like a lot of times I looked at him like,
yeah,
you sold three out of 10,
but your ticket average was half of what it should have been.
These are all the problems that we need to kind of correct.
So,
and they're all fixable.
I think you just have to have,
like,
we actually talk about that when we do our training and I have some of that in the book,
kind of the traits of a salesman.
(27:43):
You know,
of course,
you gotta be friendly.
But the main things that I think is be an expert,
make sure you're not a confuser confusion maker.
Like when you talk to people,
like they're so done when you're done talking to him,
like,
I don't know what he was even talking about.
I'm so confused.
Well,
the people aren't gonna buy in a confused state.
Nobody could ever buy in a,
in a,
in a confused state.
So that's kind of the idea of that.
(28:03):
It's just all these different things.
Like I think I have about 16 traits that we go through,
boom,
boom,
boom and dive into it.
And that's really the key,
you know,
Tom,
I think one of the most difficult things for existing sales professionals is that they believe they're a sales professional.
They've been doing this for 15 or 20 years.
They don't think they're doing anything wrong.
(28:26):
They don't want to learn something new and it's,
it's just wrong,
you know,
it's like someone who,
who's,
who's overweight and out of shape.
And they're like,
I don't,
I don't need to talk to the nutritionist or,
or to the personal trainer or read a book from a doctor who wrote something about nutrition and health and longevity.
(28:48):
They don't think because they know it all right.
They don't want to learn.
So,
get this book,
get a hold of Tom.
He'll talk to you on the phone.
He,
he loves helping people,
you know,
reach out to him,
email him and um start to have an open mind everybody.
Even when Tom and I first met,
he wasn't the same salesperson he is today.
(29:10):
I'm not saying I'm gonna take credit for him.
I'm just saying,
I've seen,
I've seen the changes over time.
I'm not taking credit Tom for it.
I'm,
I'm just saying that that I knew you before you refined all this.
And Tom continues to study,
he continues to go to conferences and read and meet people so he can become even better.
He wants to sell 11 out of 10 if that's possible.
(29:33):
You know,
it's almost possible because you go knock on,
knock on the neighbor,
neighbor's door.
There you go.
I've done that before where a neighbor comes over.
You just go,
there's all kinds of things.
But yeah,
shoot for that high closing rate.
But don't come across as a salesman when you walk into the house,
come in there that you're just there to help them,
let me see what I can do for you.
If,
if I can't do anything for you,
then I'll just put you in the right direction.
(29:55):
You don't have to use me.
And that's kind of the,
the thing,
but you do need to get better and better and better.
And that is the biggest thing is people for the most part where I see where I have pushback.
I have people come in here for our training and I mean,
literally they got their arms crossed.
They're like this and they're like to,
I don't even know why I'm here.
My boss sent me,
I've been selling for 20 years.
I'm like,
ok,
that's fine.
Maybe you'll get a couple of nuggets out of it.
(30:16):
They'll sit down for a full day,
four or five o'clock in the afternoon.
They're like,
I just want to tell you,
I've been doing this for 20 years.
I've been all over the country and I've never seen anything like this.
It's amazing.
And I'm like,
you know,
yeah,
just keep moving forward.
You're always gonna learn stuff.
And even when I get pushed back like that I might,
I could get a whole room full.
So I'm like,
oh,
good.
Maybe I'll learn something today and if I can win them over that,
(30:39):
this makes me better and then it makes them better as well because they're absorbing,
they're actually gonna take in the information and that's really the,
the thing that makes people strong is the ability I think just to take in information and to use it.
But that's where I've gotten a lot better because you were saying,
you know,
better at sales today.
And I've heard that from a lot of people that knew me 10 years ago and it's like,
man,
you're much better today than you were 10 years ago.
(31:00):
I'm like,
well,
that's because I've been training people and when you start going out doing training and mentoring,
you have,
I have to figure out a way to make it work for everybody.
So I can just naturally walk in and,
and sell stuff.
But my ticket average isn't as high as it would be today.
Closing rates not as high,
but as we started studying this and actually working on it in the last four or five years,
it's gotten,
it's almost ridiculous how good it is.
(31:20):
And I'm always like,
it's so easy and they're like,
what do you mean?
This isn't that easy?
I'm like,
if you follow the script,
the customers will all be saying,
when can you do it?
It's that simple.
It's just not that hard.
You're making more out of it.
You're scaring yourself,
just keep working on it and keep moving forward one step in front of the other.
It's just like going to the gym.
You can start going out and never worked out before a day in your life.
Go out,
go today,
(31:41):
work out as hard as you possibly could and then you're gonna get home tonight,
you're gonna look in the mirror and nothing,
nothing's changed.
No.
But if we keep doing that a year from now,
you'll be like,
holy cow.
What a difference.
And the same thing with sales.
I've almost said that people,
you know,
you go out and you start doing some things,
you change it around a little bit,
you might go from a 20% closing rate to 15.
Like you went backwards for just a,
(32:02):
just a little bit of time.
But then all of a sudden who now I hit 2025 30 40 50%.
Now I'm like,
oh my God,
I'm closing 70 80% of these.
I took one step backwards,
but then I was able to really move forward and that's kind of the idea of why I wrote the book.
Some people could stay on point and you don't have to worry about closing every deal.
(32:22):
Just you read the book and you think you're gonna be the best salesman on the planet,
it's gonna make you better and then we can go from there and keep getting better as a,
as a group.
I mean,
that's what I like to think of it.
Think of everybody as a,
I think of our customers and people that buy a book and I'm like,
think of it more like we're partners because I'm here to help you and I really some good advice.
Can go a long ways.
(32:42):
Yeah,
it's like a family for sure.
And um and I have known Tom for a long time and he is a real nice guy and he really wants to help other people and you got to get his book.
So in the description of the podcast is a link to purchase his book.
As I said earlier,
(33:04):
you can reach out to me and if I have any extra copies,
I'll,
I'll send you one for free.
Can't guarantee it.
But um my contact information of course is available on the podcast and I'm gonna put Tom's email in there too.
So,
uh Tom,
is that ok?
So they can reach out to you directly?
Yeah,
definitely you put that in there and then uh you know,
we have some upcoming training.
(33:24):
We're really gonna start launching a lot of training in September of this year.
So things are gonna start to change September 2023 we're gonna start doing lots of training,
mentoring,
focus groups,
business groups,
all kinds of different things to help people.
Ok,
Tom Decker.
When can you do it?
Um Thank you so much,
Tom.
I really appreciate it.
I want to do this for a long time and I think this timing is perfect.
(33:46):
Thank you so much.
Thanks Jim.
I really do appreciate it.
Have a great day.
I'm excited to have on the bring on success radio program with me,
my good friend Tom Decker.
Hey,
Tom,
how are you?
Good.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great.
So I wanted to have you on Tom because you recently wrote this great book.
When can you do it?
And um,
I'm familiar with this book because I actually wrote the forward to it and you and I have quite a long history together.
(00:25):
And so before we get into all of that,
why don't you quickly just talk about the book and its purpose and how you can help home service providers with this book?
Yeah,
I think the purpose was,
uh,
I think a lot of people,
like,
I do a lot of training and things and a lot of people come to me and then they have all these objections that the customers give them and they're like,
well,
how do you overcome this objection?
(00:46):
How do you overcome this one?
And I'm like,
you know,
I really don't get many of these objections that you're talking about.
I think the reason being is it's to me it's all about the presentation.
It's everything really from,
like you were talking about some of the stuff we did in the past.
But the,
the marketing setting that up,
the initial phone call,
how important that is when your CS R takes the call,
the salesman going out getting five star reviews,
(01:08):
the technicians doing a superior job,
getting referrals.
It's like everything all encompassing in one to get the customer at the end when I and I get a kick out of it when I train people and they read the book and they'll actually have people call me or they'll email me.
And I went out my first call after I read the book and the customer actually said,
when can you do it?
And they're like blown away.
And I'm like,
yeah,
that's the point.
That's what we want them to say.
We don't want to have to beg for the sale.
(01:30):
So that's why I wrote the book.
When can you do it?
Yeah.
And,
and so I love the title of the book.
I love the book.
And um I really appreciated the opportunity to be able to write the forward in the book and just to give everyone who's,
who's listening and watching a little bit of history with uh Tom and I,
we've known each other for some time and back in 2017 and 2018 to make a long story short,
(01:52):
Tom and I were on the radio together doing what we call direct response radio.
Um when he had his attic insulation business.
And we were talking about solar attic fans and we were talking about attic insulation and ways to be efficient.
And what's interesting is,
is Tom,
and I kind of discovered a lot of things that ended up being,
you know,
(02:13):
in Tom's book eventually,
which was when you educate the listener and you tell them who you are,
what you are,
they get to know,
you know,
like and trust they get to understand the product,
how much it costs,
how long it takes to put in.
By the time,
uh,
Tom went out to the home,
the homeowner said,
(02:34):
when can you do it?
I mean,
you,
you,
they already knew everything,
right?
Yeah,
I call it,
call teeing up your sales people for success.
So I know we had this conversation a while back.
So,
you know,
I did the radio with you and then I would go do the quotes.
That's how it started.
Well,
then everything blew up and I wasn't always able to do all the quotes and we're like,
well,
what if we send another salesman out?
Are they gonna be asking for me?
(02:54):
Cause that's what they heard on the radio.
We're like,
I don't know,
let's just try it.
And I went out there and our sales guys were calling in 80% because they were following the same system and we,
the marketing was so good on the radio side.
We did have the customer teed up for success.
They were ready to go.
They're ready to say,
what can you do?
They wanna use you.
And if you read,
when you read the book,
everything in there is really a lot about just eliminating the competition.
(03:19):
What I mean by that is like,
you know,
they had two or 34 quotes when you get all done,
the customer has no choice but to use your company as the service provider because nobody can compete.
It almost feel like it's not even fair.
I do mentoring and stuff all over the country and I'll go on people like how I don't get this.
I'm like,
yeah,
it's not even fair is it,
it's unbelievable when you do things right from the get go from that,
(03:41):
you know,
the branding and the marketing to the presentation and everything in between there.
The customer is always like,
yeah,
when can you do it?
This sounds amazing and that's the whole idea and that's why uh that's why I wrote the book.
So people could kind of get a flavor of what I'm talking about because you could tell people stuff.
Oh yeah,
it's all about the presentation.
Well,
that's ok.
Well,
what do we do with that?
So I'm like,
(04:01):
we read the book,
let's start there and then we'll do some other things to really get you going.
So the book is really the place to start and uh gives you a nice overview and I love,
you know,
having people read it,
I go to different,
um,
seminars and things and they'll always be somebody in the audience and they'll hold up my book and they're like,
I've got them,
I'm like,
oh,
you went to Amazon,
you got,
you got the copy of the book.
Yeah,
I bought it.
(04:22):
I bought one for my whole crew.
Everybody,
the whole sales department has got one,
they love it.
It's,
you know,
and that's the other thing is really,
I'd like to make what I do that's in the book.
And it's really simple for people to follow.
It's not a bunch of jargon,
fancy sales terms.
Get everybody all confused.
It's like no,
just kind of follow this and you'll be in really good shape.
(04:43):
Yeah,
I love the book so much.
I got a whole bunch of copies.
I give it out to people all the time because I work with home service providers on a regular basis.
My job also is to help them grow and so forth.
And so here's the book and there is a link in the description of this podcast to order this book on Amazon.
And um also if you reach out to me and I have some extra ones,
(05:08):
I may send you one.
So in any case,
it's,
it's a great book and I did write the forward in the book and,
and,
and so it's really exciting.
I don't know if I mentioned this before when we were talking about a few moments ago because I forgot Tom.
But within a year from the sales process that,
that you and I were using and ultimately is now in the book or a lot of us in the book,
(05:28):
we tripled your business.
So when your team went out there to close,
these people were ready to close,
which means you got so much of it done ahead of time.
You guys could make more sales calls.
You had more wins.
When you have more wins,
your confidence goes up,
you've got more reviews and it just snowballs.
Yeah.
And I think you can actually,
(05:50):
as a,
as a business owner,
you can actually have better sales people.
They want to come and work for you when they have better leads and when you've trained them.
So that's why people like,
well,
what's your advice for our,
our sales team?
Train,
train,
train?
That's all I can tell you more training.
They all need training three or four hours a week,
do role playing,
go out with them,
keep them on track,
(06:10):
make sure they're following the system.
And if you do that,
I mean,
you'll go,
you know,
from,
you can go from a I tell people you go from a million dollars to $3 million basically overnight.
Just for an example,
if you're doing three million will take you to six or nine million.
Just over the difference when you start adding in the closing percentage.
And then a ticket average raised,
you know,
40 50% higher closing rate,
(06:32):
40% higher ticket average.
You can literally go from a million dollars to three million with the same amount of leads.
Nothing else has changed except for now your cost,
your company is super profitable because you have a system that's really the whole idea.
It's,
and it's,
it's,
it's really that simple.
You know,
a lot of people think once they graduate from high school,
they don't have to study anymore.
(06:52):
Unfortunately,
that's not true.
And so,
uh,
if,
if you don't want to,
uh,
study and learn,
you should really get a job and make sure your boss or the owner of that company does want to study and learn so they force you to do it.
And I'm being a little tough here on you,
but you really need to,
as a sales professional,
you need to be coached,
you need to study constantly and once you do,
(07:16):
you're like,
oh,
I see that.
And,
ok,
that makes sense.
You become more confident.
You win more and you make more money.
Yeah,
I,
yeah,
I tell people all the time,
it's like,
spend more time perfecting your craft,
working on yourself,
be a better version of you every day.
And if you'll do that,
quit comparing yourself to other people because that's a lot of smoke and mirrors.
(07:37):
But you know what you're doing now and then what,
how we could be better.
And that's really the whole idea when you,
when you read books and I'm always constantly reading different books,
going to seminars trying to make myself better,
even though I'm,
I'm good at it,
but I always learn more stuff and,
and when awkward situations come up,
I'm like the more awkward the better because then I really want to get in there because it's gonna make you a better person.
(07:58):
And that's why the training and going out is really the key to most sales people's success.
And people I say all the time,
they have a little bit of success and they think they're on top of the mountain top and I say they're really just on standing on top of a molecule.
They really haven't,
they don't understand how much better it could be when you have a little success.
It's almost,
(08:18):
you're almost better off with a catastrophic failure because that way,
you know,
ok,
I've got to make some changes when you have a little success,
you get a little delusional to where you're really at.
And it's like,
well,
are you making $100 million a year?
Well,
no,
we're doing 350,000.
I think we're doing pretty good.
I mean,
I hear all these things all the time.
It's like,
well,
what if you could just be a little bit better?
Why,
why not do it?
And that's,
(08:39):
that's the whole key to success.
Always get,
make yourself a little bit better every day.
Don't worry about what everybody else is doing.
Just work on you.
Yeah.
Whenever I talk to a home service professional that's gone through any type of training,
whether Tom has helped him out or some other professional.
It's funny they go,
wow.
You know,
we're gonna triple our volume this year.
(09:01):
And so I asked him how,
well,
because I work with Tom.
Well,
I work with,
you know,
anyone who does what Tom can do.
I mean,
really Tom is great but,
you know,
whatever you do you got to read,
listen,
go to,
um,
seminars and conferences.
You've got to get a coach,
(09:22):
even the best golfers like Tiger Woods have had coaches and we all need all that stuff and,
um,
you should really reach out to Tom though,
get his book for sure.
Go online,
get his book,
reach out to Tom because Tomm is one of the most caring people.
I know I've known him for a very long time.
I've seen him build many businesses and now what he gets a real kick out of is building your business.
(09:44):
So that's fun.
Yeah.
Oh,
I love doing this.
That's really passionate.
I still have other businesses as well,
but I really like the in home sales piece of,
of the business because that's where we see the deficiencies with other companies.
And like I said,
people,
they think they've got a little success and it could be so much better.
I hear this all the time and then if people will just listen,
(10:06):
be a better listener,
man,
it will just change your whole life.
It's,
it's hard to believe.
Some people make $100,000 a year and I think they're doing pretty good and I'm like,
some people make $10 million a year and they think they're a failure.
I mean,
it just depends where you wanna be.
It's kind of crazy.
It's not all about money to me.
I don't do anything for money anymore.
I was trying to just,
I'm just there to help and I really start from that place and I think that's why when you're at a customer's house,
(10:29):
if you're coming from a place where you're always just trying to help,
you're not trying to sell them anything,
you're coming up with solutions.
If you can help them and not tell them all the time,
you know,
if there's a better option,
you want to go a different direction,
you know,
I'm still here to help you.
I'm not worried about the sale.
We don't make that much on any given sale.
So it really doesn't matter to me.
I'm not gonna,
I tell them I'm not gonna miss a meal,
you know,
don't feel bad if you want to go a different direction and the more I take it away they're like they're reaching over the table practically.
(10:53):
Tom.
No.
No,
we want to use you.
I'm like,
OK,
but I just,
I just want,
I don't want you to have,
feel like you have to use me.
I want you to wanna use our company or the company that I'm working with because I'm always going,
it's like wherever whoever I'm going with like that's my company.
Like I work there,
but that's the whole idea is we want that customer to wanna use us and I don't have to go out and say,
(11:14):
hey,
you gotta sign this 20 page document.
We're locking you down,
you're gonna pay half down because we're scared you're gonna cancel.
We don't need to do any of that because customers are gonna go with us.
They can have an agreement like whatever we set the terms on,
that's fine.
But I don't tell people like I'm like,
if you want to go a different direction,
go just have at it,
I'm still here to help because that's how I start the day off.
(11:35):
I'm just gonna go out and I'm just gonna help as many people as I can.
And if I do that,
the money always comes,
my dad taught me that a long time ago.
Don't worry about the money,
the money will come.
If you do things the right way upfront,
helping people,
the more you're helping people,
the better you're gonna be,
the better everything you're doing and the better off they're gonna be.
And that's a win.
So that's kind of why,
like,
always gonna be a win,
win,
win situation.
(11:56):
Well,
you've always said that Tom,
if it's,
uh,
you know,
two parties it's win,
win.
If it's three,
it's,
win,
win,
win.
And a lot of people don't think that's possible.
They think,
uh,
one party has to lose somewhere and that's not,
that's not necessarily true.
And so I want to go back to the education thing,
education,
education,
education.
So we all need to educate,
we need to read books,
(12:17):
we need to listen to them,
we need to go to seminars.
You may even want to write a book.
If you write a book and you're teaching others,
you're really going to have to learn more and retain more.
But the reason why education is so important is we don't want to as sales professionals be selling,
we want to educate and when we educate our prospects,
(12:38):
they make a decision to buy.
When your prospect makes the decision to buy,
you're gonna make a sale.
It's that simple.
Yeah,
it used to be,
you know,
always be selling.
That was the thing I was always be selling.
I'm like,
no,
always be helping and all the sales will come.
It's that it's that simple.
Don't worry about what everybody else is doing.
Don't worry about what everybody else is saying.
(12:59):
Don't worry about everybody else's pricing.
Pricing.
I hear all these things that,
well,
our price is a little higher.
So we have a hard time.
I'm like,
no,
well,
you just don't have a high perceived value.
The customer is not seeing the perceived value of what you're offering versus what the,
the other contractors are offering.
If they see the perceived value is double or triple,
I'm gonna have people.
Sometimes I go out and look at it,
say a particular whatever they job is and it's $2000 and like,
(13:22):
oh,
I got a quote for 1700.
Why are you $300 more?
I'm like,
if you want us to do it for 1700 I'll do it for 1500 if you want the same service.
But there's a big difference in our service in our products.
We're gonna give you what you're paying for.
I don't go out there and sell you the highest ticket or the highest price thing we have.
And then try to be the cheapest guy like can take out,
(13:45):
you know,
say it's an installation company.
It was like,
you know,
I don't try to sell you a $2000 say a job and it's,
it's gonna take 20 bags of installation just for easy math.
And then I sell it to the customer and then tell my,
my installers,
hey,
see if you can just put 12 or 10 bags in there,
we'll make more money.
But that's what the other companies do.
But when you explain that to the homeowner,
it's like I can batch or meet any price.
(14:06):
But that's,
but that's not gonna do you the,
the service,
you only write the check once.
Let's,
let's do it right the first time.
And let's get you a lifetime of energy savings and comfort.
For example,
on that kind of scenario or roofing.
Same thing you want us to be a,
a certain price.
Well,
we'll just use four nails instead of five or six.
We'll use a cheaper shingle.
We'll use a cheaper ridge.
We won't use the ice and water shield.
(14:27):
We won't use a starter row.
We'll,
we'll do all kinds of different things to get the,
the price down.
But you're not getting the roof life out of it like you could have if we do everything right with the ventilation,
the right underlays and everything we can get you 30 years out of that 30 year roof,
not,
you know,
we do a 30 year roof and we get 12 or 15 years out of it and the roof shot.
Did you really save any money?
I think you're spending more.
(14:48):
So,
it just depends how you look at it.
So that's why I said it's always about high perceived value and perceived value doesn't mean that it really costs more money.
Like if you're uh a roofing company and you got your,
your trucks are all lettered up.
You guys got company shirts on,
you look very professional.
You only pay for that stuff once it really isn't costing your company that much more money.
But it does give you a lot higher perceived value.
But there's,
and I have a whole thing and when I do training and stuff to,
(15:10):
to treat how do we create high perceived value that doesn't really cost us a lot of money to do.
And we,
and we touch on the,
in the book,
but that's really the key is that creating a high perceived value.
And that doesn't necessarily mean a high price.
People buy on value,
not really on price.
People almost always buy on value unless they're just a price shopper.
And there's always going to be that customer,
(15:32):
that homeowner consumer that will buy on price,
but they often buy cheap products.
I don't even like the word cheap.
People use the word cheap when they're selling stuff.
I never like to do it when I sell stuff.
I like to call it inexpensive cheap to me.
Um Means it's junk.
And so there are people who are cheap and I don't like to sell the cheap people.
(15:53):
And as a home service professional,
you shouldn't want to sell the cheap people.
You want to sell to people who really want to buy value even if they don't have a lot of money.
And Tom has a lot of experience where,
where,
you know,
he may have heard from someone in his office before he went out to the home.
I don't think Mrs Smith really can afford this.
Tom would go out anyway to find out.
Even though Mrs Smith didn't have a lot of resources.
(16:14):
He made it work because she said she was gonna die in that house and she was only 60 and she planned to live to 90.
So she decided over the next 30 years she wanted that peace of mind and that comfort and longevity and therefore Tom closed it.
Yeah,
that's what I like really having that conversation with the homeowner and when you should win them over,
I love when they tell me,
(16:35):
you know,
Tom,
I'm,
you know,
I'm on a fixed income or I have a certain budget and I really just can't go over it.
And this is the reasons why they're just open with me and I'm like,
we can work with that number.
We might have to break this up into a couple pieces.
We might have to change a product.
Maybe we,
uh instead of doing this,
we can do this X Y and Z,
we,
we'll figure it out and I tell them like,
(16:55):
let's just look at everything because a lot of times they'll tell me that and I get through everything and they're like,
you know what?
That's actually not bad.
That's about what I was thinking it was gonna be,
but I was hoping it wasn't gonna be some astronomical number,
but it was just our normal price.
Like we didn't come down on the price.
We just came out and just did the job quoted it the right way,
went through everything and they seen the value and,
you know,
they're like,
(17:15):
oh,
I could finance it over 3 to 5 years and make it more palatable and get it done and be done with this.
So there's always a way.
But you,
that's where you have to have this conversation.
And I really like,
I call it a conversation presentation versus just a presentation.
We don't want to just go out and just throw up a bunch of information on people.
That's not what we're doing.
We want to have a conversation with them.
And as we do that conversation,
(17:36):
we get to where we want to be.
And a lot of times people about halfway through my,
my presentation,
like,
well,
how much is all this gonna cost?
I'm like,
oh,
that's the easy part.
Don't even worry about that.
You know,
I'll tell them.
So I have a 95% close rate.
That means if I walk into 100 houses,
95 people are buying it from me because they like our products.
They like our service.
They like the presentation.
We'll figure out the price.
(17:56):
We're gonna make that work.
Don't,
don't worry about that just to get them off of that price.
Let me,
let me show you everything.
We can do an offer and then we can break some things down and I always get a notebook out and I'll start spitballing with them,
kind of giving them some options and,
and figure out where their,
their comfort level is because I'm not big on going into a customer's house on certain things,
certain things I would ask for a budget,
say I was out with the kitchen remodeling company kind of need to know what kind of budget we have,
(18:19):
you know,
to do this because it a $30,000 kitchen or 100 versus if we go into like,
say we're gonna do insulation or something.
They got a hot house,
they can't keep it cool,
for example.
But what's I don't ask them what the budget is because they don't know that there's more to it than say just insulation,
there is ventilation,
there's all kinds of different products that we offer.
So then I would go through that and show and then we'll figure out that I figure out their budget with them.
(18:43):
They become part of the solution,
the customers,
it's their story.
So you kind of work with that and that helps a lot versus just saying,
hey,
what's your budget?
Because they,
they don't know what their budget is that.
They just say,
well,
I got three quotes for uh they were about $1,802,000 piece.
So I guess I got a $2000 budget and then I walk out and it's $5800 and they're smiling ear to ear.
It's like,
what?
Of course I gave them more stuff we did.
(19:04):
We're doing more,
we're gonna get them more energy savings,
more comfort.
The roof lasts longer.
Everything over time.
So that's kind of the idea of when you go out,
when you're doing sales is don't you have to listen to,
you,
listen to the customer,
but you don't necessarily have to take everything they're saying as the gospel,
a lot of it kind of changes as you're going through the presentation.
That's how we have that conversation presentation.
Yeah,
you really need to listen.
(19:25):
We're told to listen more than we talk and often people don't know what they really want to buy.
So,
you know,
Tom's office may have gotten a phone call years ago and the homeowner says I need insulation because they think they need installation.
And the reason why they think they need insulation is because their second floor was really hot and it's summer time.
(19:50):
So that's what they think.
So when Tom goes out to the home,
he talks to them and they say we need more insulation and Tom doesn't say,
oh,
yeah,
you know,
you probably need six inches,
I'll give it to you.
He starts asking questions to find out what they really want is they want to be more comfortable in their home and they want to save money ultimately.
(20:12):
So Tom says,
ok,
now let me go up in the attic and take a look.
Oh,
you know what you do need another six inches.
And by the way,
you don't have any ventilation up here.
So it's not just installation,
ma'am,
it's actually ventilation as well and you may even be able to help him out with,
you know,
maybe,
um,
you know,
something to,
to,
uh,
uh,
you know,
shore up,
(20:33):
uh,
that huge loss of air in the staircase that you pull down.
Right.
The draft master you call that right.
So,
so products like that before you know it,
they're not buying insulation,
they're buying a solution,
they're buying a solution.
Yes.
Um That is key and that's why I like to have a presentation to kind of go through the products before we look at the actual product or the project.
(20:54):
So that's how I started off.
I was,
you know,
great build Rapport.
That's in the book because we got 30 to 60 seconds to do that.
We get to the customer's house.
We're gonna ask him some discovery questions,
kind of figure out their mindset,
get some feedback.
It's really to get feedback from them.
It's not just to ask questions.
I don't just every question I ask,
I tell them why I'm asking the question.
So because I want to create this conversation back and forth and then we'll go into a presentation kind of show everything that we were to offer that we have available and say,
(21:21):
I don't know if you need any of this or all of it.
I haven't been up and looked at the project yet,
but once we look at the project,
we'll come back down,
I'll make some recommendations.
So then after that,
we show them that presentation and we'll look at the project,
we come back down,
we're gonna give them the recommendations.
Like if it was,
I always say if it was my house,
if it was my mom's house,
this is what I would recommend.
Then if there's any tax incentives available,
(21:42):
there's some different,
you know,
different products have different tax,
federal tax credits.
Uh There's some of the energy departments have different credits.
We'll look at that,
then we'll look at like the federal tax credits as well.
Then we'll show them some,
if it's something we could save them some energy on,
say a new H VAC system,
maybe a roof,
we could save them some money on energy.
We put a,
a lower,
you know,
(22:02):
a,
a lighter color shingle.
They have some other shingles that actually have like a radiant barrier put into them.
So different things and we'll show them what the projected energy savings would look like over say 10 years stretch that out a little bit.
And then after that,
then we spitball three or four options with them.
I get a notepad on and I'm like,
ok,
we got these three things.
Let's start here and then like,
ok,
I think I wanna go with the second one.
(22:23):
Boom.
Ok,
then we'll go to the next,
uh,
uh,
products and kind of work our way through it.
So we build the,
the ticket or the project with the customer.
I don't come back down out of an attic or off of a roof or look at an H VAC system and say this is what you need and then give them a price then like,
oh,
then,
now it's all about the price again.
So forget that we're gonna go through the items and we'll kind of spitball some like,
(22:44):
you know,
hey,
if we went with the uh,
a 16 Sea Ach Vac system,
it's gonna run,
you know,
I'll spit that ball with them just to kind of see where their,
where their mindset that's gonna run at 8 $10,000 complete brand new system.
10 year warranty out of sight,
out of mind,
you have to think about it.
We'll maintain it for the next 10 years will cost you a penny from,
for the next 10 years.
They might like,
that might be a good option for them.
(23:04):
Or they might have an option to say,
well,
what if we just replace the evaporator coil upstairs because it's leaking or let's just,
can we just replace the compressor?
Yep.
And we could,
yes,
we can do that.
And then we'll kind of go through those numbers and say,
you know,
the problem is we put a new compressor in there and then the whole air conditioner is basically old except for this new compressor.
You spent $4000 on the compressor could have spent eight,
got a new system and the next year you're spending 8000 on a new system because something else went wrong and you've had it now,
(23:29):
you've dropped $12,000 on the same system.
We could have just fixed it today and been done with it and then we'll show them those energy savings over time.
But did you know,
the system will actually pay for itself just in energy savings?
You know,
plus every,
every,
you know,
July 4th week and your air condition is not going out because you got a brand new unit.
A lot of people just want to buy from peace of mind.
So all these different things is kind of the way that you want to sell things,
(23:50):
create a nice presentation,
go through that,
get that feedback from the customer.
And like I said,
that's why I wrote the book and put that all in there to kind of get people the flavor of what we're doing.
There is no step by step by step for each individual industry because it depends on the customer,
the project,
the the the pricing,
you know how pricing is going up and down.
(24:10):
There's so many variables,
but it's you as the salesman to put all of this together and work out a good solution for the homeowner.
You're kind of a solution solver.
You're like the coach of the team,
you gotta figure out everybody's personalities and you gotta make them all work together and we need to win the big game.
That's the whole idea.
And if so,
if we can't put that together,
we need another coach.
(24:31):
You know,
when I talk about that a lot of times,
you know,
I go to a company and I'm like,
damn,
man,
morale is at an all time low.
I walk in.
That's,
that's how I start my presentation.
They're like,
what,
who is this guy?
And then I'll start telling why.
I think that and they're like,
oh yeah,
it's rough around here.
And I'm like,
well,
it starts at the top and works its way down and you guys are all just poisoning each other.
(24:51):
You might be better off apart.
I mean,
I don't get into all that but it's,
it's crazy.
So,
but it's like I said,
it's,
that's why my shirt says W 3 60.
It's,
we have a whole system from,
from start to finish,
from branding,
advertising and marketing to the magical moment when a customer says,
when can you do it?
That's really the model that we preach.
And that's why I had that book and that's kind of where we started.
(25:13):
So,
Tom,
I think a lot of people probably say that.
Well,
it's easy for Tom Decker,
but I can't do this.
Can't you turn anyone who wants to be turned into a sale superstar or a sale superstar.
Almost anybody that will listen.
And they'll take,
yeah,
they'll take the information in if they can take the information in because like I said,
(25:33):
we make it very palatable where they can understand it.
It's not something that's so crazy that they just couldn't understand it.
And I don't try to confuse people.
I've been to some different training or some people doing training and I feel like they try to almost confuse you.
So like,
oh,
I gotta get the system.
It's like,
no,
I'm not trying to confuse you.
I'm trying to work through this with you to figure out a good system.
(25:54):
So to answer the question,
I think almost anybody,
if they've got a decent personality,
of course,
they want,
they need to have the energy to go do it.
I think that's where I see a lot of people get into trouble.
I'd always say one of my saying is,
you know,
it's tough on the streets when you're out doing in home sales,
you're doing a lot of driving around,
you gotta keep your,
your head straight and get out there and just keep moving forward.
(26:17):
But that's the problem with a lot of people.
They,
they get distracted,
they're on their phone,
their wife is yelling and the kids are this and this and that and they're all over the place.
I'm like,
just focus when you pull up to the house that's in the,
it's in the book too.
It's like put your game face on.
Yeah,
that's what you're here to do.
That's your whole mission in life for the next hour.
If you can't put that hour aside,
call the customer and say you have an emergency and you need to reschedule and that shouldn't be happening.
(26:41):
But if it does things happen,
so think more like that.
But a lot of people,
they get to the customer's house and they're so used to going through the motions,
spending five or 10 minutes in and out of houses.
They think it's just a numbers game.
I'm like,
yeah,
but your numbers are all jacked up because you're not,
you're not in your deals.
You two out of 10,
2 out of 10 is not a good uh ratio.
That's not gonna work.
(27:01):
No,
when you like,
I like to shoot for 100%.
I'll say 10 out of 10.
That's what we're shooting for now.
We don't always get 10 out of 10 but say you end up with eight out of 10.
Ok,
we're doing pretty good.
But I,
I go out with a lot of sales people and like all we call is 18 2030%.
It's not too bad.
I'm like,
what do you consider bad?
I mean 30%.
That means 70% of the time you're just walking out with nothing.
(27:22):
You just,
you blew it and the ones you did sell,
what are those ticket averages?
Look like a lot of times I looked at him like,
yeah,
you sold three out of 10,
but your ticket average was half of what it should have been.
These are all the problems that we need to kind of correct.
So,
and they're all fixable.
I think you just have to have,
like,
we actually talk about that when we do our training and I have some of that in the book,
kind of the traits of a salesman.
(27:43):
You know,
of course,
you gotta be friendly.
But the main things that I think is be an expert,
make sure you're not a confuser confusion maker.
Like when you talk to people,
like they're so done when you're done talking to him,
like,
I don't know what he was even talking about.
I'm so confused.
Well,
the people aren't gonna buy in a confused state.
Nobody could ever buy in a,
in a,
in a confused state.
So that's kind of the idea of that.
(28:03):
It's just all these different things.
Like I think I have about 16 traits that we go through,
boom,
boom,
boom and dive into it.
And that's really the key,
you know,
Tom,
I think one of the most difficult things for existing sales professionals is that they believe they're a sales professional.
They've been doing this for 15 or 20 years.
They don't think they're doing anything wrong.
(28:26):
They don't want to learn something new and it's,
it's just wrong,
you know,
it's like someone who,
who's,
who's overweight and out of shape.
And they're like,
I don't,
I don't need to talk to the nutritionist or,
or to the personal trainer or read a book from a doctor who wrote something about nutrition and health and longevity.
(28:48):
They don't think because they know it all right.
They don't want to learn.
So,
get this book,
get a hold of Tom.
He'll talk to you on the phone.
He,
he loves helping people,
you know,
reach out to him,
email him and um start to have an open mind everybody.
Even when Tom and I first met,
he wasn't the same salesperson he is today.
(29:10):
I'm not saying I'm gonna take credit for him.
I'm just saying,
I've seen,
I've seen the changes over time.
I'm not taking credit Tom for it.
I'm,
I'm just saying that that I knew you before you refined all this.
And Tom continues to study,
he continues to go to conferences and read and meet people so he can become even better.
He wants to sell 11 out of 10 if that's possible.
(29:33):
You know,
it's almost possible because you go knock on,
knock on the neighbor,
neighbor's door.
There you go.
I've done that before where a neighbor comes over.
You just go,
there's all kinds of things.
But yeah,
shoot for that high closing rate.
But don't come across as a salesman when you walk into the house,
come in there that you're just there to help them,
let me see what I can do for you.
If,
if I can't do anything for you,
then I'll just put you in the right direction.
(29:55):
You don't have to use me.
And that's kind of the,
the thing,
but you do need to get better and better and better.
And that is the biggest thing is people for the most part where I see where I have pushback.
I have people come in here for our training and I mean,
literally they got their arms crossed.
They're like this and they're like to,
I don't even know why I'm here.
My boss sent me,
I've been selling for 20 years.
I'm like,
ok,
that's fine.
Maybe you'll get a couple of nuggets out of it.
(30:16):
They'll sit down for a full day,
four or five o'clock in the afternoon.
They're like,
I just want to tell you,
I've been doing this for 20 years.
I've been all over the country and I've never seen anything like this.
It's amazing.
And I'm like,
you know,
yeah,
just keep moving forward.
You're always gonna learn stuff.
And even when I get pushed back like that I might,
I could get a whole room full.
So I'm like,
oh,
good.
Maybe I'll learn something today and if I can win them over that,
(30:39):
this makes me better and then it makes them better as well because they're absorbing,
they're actually gonna take in the information and that's really the,
the thing that makes people strong is the ability I think just to take in information and to use it.
But that's where I've gotten a lot better because you were saying,
you know,
better at sales today.
And I've heard that from a lot of people that knew me 10 years ago and it's like,
man,
you're much better today than you were 10 years ago.
(31:00):
I'm like,
well,
that's because I've been training people and when you start going out doing training and mentoring,
you have,
I have to figure out a way to make it work for everybody.
So I can just naturally walk in and,
and sell stuff.
But my ticket average isn't as high as it would be today.
Closing rates not as high,
but as we started studying this and actually working on it in the last four or five years,
it's gotten,
it's almost ridiculous how good it is.
(31:20):
And I'm always like,
it's so easy and they're like,
what do you mean?
This isn't that easy?
I'm like,
if you follow the script,
the customers will all be saying,
when can you do it?
It's that simple.
It's just not that hard.
You're making more out of it.
You're scaring yourself,
just keep working on it and keep moving forward one step in front of the other.
It's just like going to the gym.
You can start going out and never worked out before a day in your life.
Go out,
go today,
(31:41):
work out as hard as you possibly could and then you're gonna get home tonight,
you're gonna look in the mirror and nothing,
nothing's changed.
No.
But if we keep doing that a year from now,
you'll be like,
holy cow.
What a difference.
And the same thing with sales.
I've almost said that people,
you know,
you go out and you start doing some things,
you change it around a little bit,
you might go from a 20% closing rate to 15.
Like you went backwards for just a,
(32:02):
just a little bit of time.
But then all of a sudden who now I hit 2025 30 40 50%.
Now I'm like,
oh my God,
I'm closing 70 80% of these.
I took one step backwards,
but then I was able to really move forward and that's kind of the idea of why I wrote the book.
Some people could stay on point and you don't have to worry about closing every deal.
(32:22):
Just you read the book and you think you're gonna be the best salesman on the planet,
it's gonna make you better and then we can go from there and keep getting better as a,
as a group.
I mean,
that's what I like to think of it.
Think of everybody as a,
I think of our customers and people that buy a book and I'm like,
think of it more like we're partners because I'm here to help you and I really some good advice.
Can go a long ways.
(32:42):
Yeah,
it's like a family for sure.
And um and I have known Tom for a long time and he is a real nice guy and he really wants to help other people and you got to get his book.
So in the description of the podcast is a link to purchase his book.
As I said earlier,
(33:04):
you can reach out to me and if I have any extra copies,
I'll,
I'll send you one for free.
Can't guarantee it.
But um my contact information of course is available on the podcast and I'm gonna put Tom's email in there too.
So,
uh Tom,
is that ok?
So they can reach out to you directly?
Yeah,
definitely you put that in there and then uh you know,
we have some upcoming training.
(33:24):
We're really gonna start launching a lot of training in September of this year.
So things are gonna start to change September 2023 we're gonna start doing lots of training,
mentoring,
focus groups,
business groups,
all kinds of different things to help people.
Ok,
Tom Decker.
When can you do it?
Um Thank you so much,
Tom.
I really appreciate it.
I want to do this for a long time and I think this timing is perfect.
(33:46):
Thank you so much.
Thanks Jim.
I really do appreciate it.
Have a great day.
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