Interview with Mike Donaghey

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
On January 28, 2024, the Bristol boys are back ready to bristle at each other a little

(00:09):
bit.
We got a guest in the studio that we're going to bristle at.
We got Lottie.
We got the commish, angry Jay.
The Don father not here.
Mac daddy is capital security.
Joe Moriello a life well planned.
Hit him up.
Set yourself up for the future.

(00:29):
Guy Gaze are brewing secondary sponsor champ Torres with the champ cam coming in very soon.
I spoke to him this week.
We have two champ cams coming in.
We're going to be able to see these these mugs in future episodes before we get to the
Yanks which is obviously on the forefront of all of our minds want to introduce our guest

(00:53):
today.
Wobbin mass pronounced that wrong.
I think it's Woburn.
Wobbin.
Is it Woburn?
No.
Washington, Connecticut's own Mike Donahue.
We're not going to spoil why Mike's in the studio because we're going to let him unveil
some of his story which is awesome.

(01:14):
Lottie thoughts.
High school basketball real quick.
Middle of the season.
I think just like always there's those upper left line teams like the East Catholics of
the world.
I see a lot more purity this year especially in the Nogutac Valley League.

(01:35):
Waterbury career is very good and Crosby is very good and then there's a pack in the middle
that they all play good basketball.
I think that happens in the CCC too.
Some of the bigger conferences in the state but what I've noticed and I didn't know how
to take it coming into your 35 second shot clock has had no bearing on these games whatsoever

(01:55):
at the high school level.
I can't speak for the girls.
Even like baseline out of bounds plays and sideline out of bounds plays where we are drawing
up stuff in the preseason.
It hasn't come to fruition at all.
I've seen over 20 games total and I've seen about three violations.
Boys and girls.
Same.
Nonsense.
Should have been in there 20 years ago.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
I've been out scouting, seen some good basketball but I don't see a lot of those dominant players.

(02:23):
Maybe Jay has a different perspective of what's going on in Connecticut or those ultra-ultra-dominant
teams like we've had in the past.
Hey, Green Jay, who comes out of division one?
It's hard to pick against East Catholic.
I mean, they haven't lost yet.
They actually had a tough game against Farmington the other night.
They came out to the wire.
Farmington took them to the wire.
But until somebody beats the champ to beat a man, you got to beat the man, right?

(02:47):
I guess.
So they're going to play a play-in game, 16-17, then go with the 16-team format.
Yeah.
That's kind of neat.
It's terrible.
Last year, I think it was West Hill was 0-20.
Yeah, they didn't win a game.
And they had to drive across the state to play East Catholic.
Come on, guys.
Who was 19-1, who had lost to maybe a New York game or something.

(03:08):
Come on, CIC, get it right.
The game was over before they got on the bus.
What do you say to the kids at halftime when you're down 40?
Let's win the second half, guys.
Let's win this half.
Welcome, Mike.
Mike Donahue, one of my buddies got the privilege to coach against his daughter, Shepaug High
School standout.

(03:29):
Mike's come to my classroom and enlightened some fifth graders.
He blew me off this year.
But he was nice enough to drive over an hour to get here in the snow this morning.
Mike, welcome to the Bristol boys.
Thank you, Robert.
There's a lot to Mike's story.
We're going to, a little spoiler alert, we're going to get to his secret service days guarding

(03:51):
our nation's president.
But let's go back to your childhood in Woburn.
You just butcher and that's just, don't say the, it's just so much easier.
Woburn.
What should sports impact you growing up in Woburn?
I was big.

(04:13):
So you know, big time sports family.
I was probably the worst athlete.
I can see it.
Yeah, definitely.
So my father was a huge athlete.
My brother, Steven, who is seven years younger than me, drafted out of high school by the
Kansas City Royals, went and played for Danny Hall at Georgia Tech and then wound out his

(04:35):
career with the Cleveland Indians so we can talk a little bit about how good Steven was
at some point.
He's probably the best athlete I've ever seen in person.
And I had a chance to coach him because of the gap in age.
Interesting stuff.
I threw BP for him when the Kansas City Royals cross checker came and he was hitting balls.
He got against the backstop because that's how we used to throw BP.

(04:55):
No screen.
No screen.
Oh boy.
Got against the backstop with a wooden bat and he was launching balls in, you know, into
the next county from the backstop with the cross checker sitting there, you know, just
taking notes.
So great experience for me is, you know, 20-something, you know, trying to help him get drafted.
So do you remember who the regional checker was?

(05:18):
It'll come to me.
It'll come to me because he ended up, I think he ended up being a GM someplace.
But he was at the time, he was a cross checker for the Royals.
Maybe if we have a break, I'll text Steve and he'll remember.
But yeah, it was a kind of a great experience.

(05:40):
And, you know, so I coached, I'm jumping in a tangent here, but I coached him, you know,
so I got out of school and I coached him in high school in the summer.
It was like a senior Babe Ruth deal.
So, you know, he was like, it happens a lot with these great athletes.
Like, you know, he, nothing phased him.

(06:02):
Like his hot rate, I don't think, ever got out of the 50s.
He knew he was good.
Yeah.
And so he was pitching one night and he threw the ball like 88 to 92 or whatever in high
school.
And so he's pitching one night and there's scouts behind the backstop with the radar
guns.
And he's like 85, 86, and he's still throwing it past these guys that were playing.

(06:24):
My father's like out of his mind.
So my father comes over to me and he's like, what is he doing?
What is he doing?
And I said, I got it.
So I call time out, like maybe a second in and I call time out.
The poor catch is coming out.
I don't even know who the kid was, but he's coming out.
I said, stay there.
So now it's just Steven and Steven and I at the mound and I said, hey, just real quick,

(06:45):
I said the guys behind the backstop with the things in their hands that they're pointing
at you, their professional scouts.
And he's like, yeah.
I said, well, anytime you want to show up, like we're all waiting like anytime, like
just anytime you want to play, like we're all here waiting to see you show up.
And I jog off 92, 92, 92.
He's just not smoking because he pissed at me.

(07:07):
But like sometimes those good, those really good players, like you got to get under their
skin a little bit, you know, and that's how he was.
But just a ridiculous, ridiculous athlete, great basketball player, you know, could do
things with, you know, bolt his hands, you know, shoot, you know, jumpers with his left
hand when he's a right handed dominant guy, just a great player.
And then how far to get with the Indians?

(07:28):
I think he just got high.
So, so what happened with him was he, the summer of his freshman year, he was at a party
back in Wolbin and a fight broke out on the deck.
And he, so he wasn't involved in the fight, but the, as things started to kind of unpack,
he, he's six, six and a half, six, seven, like let's say.

(07:51):
So, you know, the edge of the deck came under just under, you know, just under his back or
whatever.
So he fell off the deck and he landed on both of his hands.
So he put both his hands out to break his, uh, big breaks fall and he broke both wrists,
like really bad.
Like there was a guy, and you talk about remembering names, there was a guy, so when they, when
they took the MRIs, they called down at Georgia, Texas, this kid's career is over.

(08:16):
So his left hand, um, I think was just your typical common fracture, but his, I think his
right hand might, might have it backwards, but one of them was trashed.
So my father got him an audience with this guy, Jupiter at Mass General, who was at the
time the greatest hand surgeon, like going and Jupiter is like, I got this completely

(08:39):
fixed him.
And so that happened.
That's a great story right there.
It's unbelievable, completely fixed him.
So, so, you know, typical D one scenario, you know, they're done with them.
Like they think like he's done.
So this is half.
The summer, he was supposed to go down and play the cape.
So all that goes out the window and it's the summer of his freshman year.

(09:00):
So he's going into his sophomore year and there, Georgia Tech's ready to just, this
guy's just going to be a student down here.
Like he's not going to, we're going to have to transition him out.
Jupiter fixes him up.
Jupiter calls down there says this guy's going to be fine.
He rehabs.
I think he might have missed the first 15 games and then he was in the lineup, but it, you

(09:22):
know, it held him back and ultimately what happened was is he, he played like, I think
he played on the Cape, but I think he played most of his summer ball in the next couple
of years, like down the Carolinas and the, in the Shenandoah Valley League, like back
in the day.
I know there's tons of wooden bat leagues now, but that was a good one.
But he played down there and then he went his entire senior year.

(09:46):
So he actually graduated from Georgia Tech and signed with Cleveland as a free agent.
So now you're coming out as a 23 year old.
So like, you know, he's funny.
And he tells the stories so he can drink, right?
He's 23.
So he's in the minors and he's pitching.
So he's pitching for like the Mahoning Valley scrapers in the middle of Ohio or whatever
they, they jump on the bus and they're running around and, and like half of the roster, if

(10:09):
not all of the roster, like 18 year old kids.
So like the only rule that the coaching staff had is when we're on the road and you walk
into a bar, if we're sitting there, find another place to drink.
And of course all these one horse towns, every town he went into, he's like, I can't wait
to just go grab a beer and he goes in there and the whole coaching staff's in there.

(10:32):
So now he's got to go find some place.
One more round.
Yeah.
So he ends up, ended up, ends up like, you know, running the gas stations and buying
beers for all these young guys.
He's like, I got to get out of here.
So I think he did like three years and then he got out and started his life.
What position do you play at Tech?
So you're going to love this story because I'm surrounded by Yankee fans here.
But and again, he was really, really good even after the injury.

(10:57):
So he played first base and he closed for Tech.
Two way.
Wow.
Yeah.
And so there was a guy named Mark Tashara.
You guys probably heard it, Tashara.
Fraud.
Him and, him and Steven are still buddies, but so Tashara goes to Tech and he has to

(11:18):
play third until Steven graduates.
Get out of here.
Something right there.
Yeah.
And that he, and then when he came up, he started at third base.
He was at that base from up down there.
That's great.
Good story about your brother.
Never knew that.
So a high school.
What was your high school like?
Yeah.
Wobbein High, big, big, big high school.
So years ago, I mean, you're talking, I get out of there, what 88.

(11:41):
So you're talking a long time ago, but, you know, 475 kids, my senior class.
Geez.
Big, almost always the sport and football, football is big sport.
So my senior year, we, we went under.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
My senior year undefeated state championship and then we played Brockton.

(12:03):
You guys have heard of Brockton.
So Brockton, the year.
My brother, Brockton, brawler.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we lined up against Brockton.
So Brockton was coached by a guy by the name of Armand Colombo, who's a legendary high
school coach in Massachusetts.
And, you know, we had, so, so back when I went to school, the junior high school was
seventh, eighth and ninth.
So the high school was 10, 11, 12.

(12:26):
And if you average, let's just round it up and say 500 kids in a class, you had about
1500 kids in high school.
Brockton had 3,500.
So you can imagine the talent pool, like we had a talent pool.
Yeah.
You know, not about it.
I mean, we had 500 guys or 500 kids in our, 1500 kids in our high school, but you can
imagine what Brockton had with, you know, over 3,000.

(12:47):
So we go down, we played the state championship game like they do, but we played in the old
Sullivan Stadium.
And Brockton had on that team that beat us by the speed limit, but they beat us 28-0.
On that team, they had like 10 guys, I think, that went to Division 1.

(13:07):
I mean, guys, there were guys like Rudy Harris that went to Clemson and played in the league.
I mean, they were really good.
And you know, just put up, I mean, I'm pretty sure they could have beat us worse, but our
coach is like another legend, Rocky Nelson and Colombo were buddies, so he stopped a
bleeding at about 28-0.
You know what?
But I was a free safety.
Respectable.

(13:28):
Yeah.
I was a free safety and going into the game, we were really good.
Like our front seven was really good.
We played a 50-front, which is, you know, unless we got into third and long and then they went
with a faulty look.
And I mean, you play a 50-front in high school, your linebackers are just, they're your tacklers.
They're free to do whatever they want to do.
And as a free safety, I might have averaged three or four tackles in a game, right?

(13:50):
And again, this is in the 80s, it's not like they were running spread and anybody was coming
out with like empty looks or anything.
So, but in that game, I think I had 12 tackles.
Oh, they got there quick.
Oh, they just, yeah, like, second level.
Second level.
Yeah, I got it.
Like, you know, I'm trying to figure out what's going on.
And there's the guy with the football and I got to get in his way.
And I don't even know if you, if we looked at the film, I don't know if so much like

(14:10):
I was tackling them or they just were running into me, you know, and they just kind of tripped
over me.
But, but yeah, so I think that experience, you know, I played on offense too.
I was a receiver and I think that those two years, my junior year, my senior year, we
were undefeated basically both years.
We lost on Thanksgiving, my junior year and the team we lost to arrival went to the, went

(14:33):
to the state championship game, but that opened the door for me to go and play in college.
Okay.
So now you take your, your talents and your classroom abilities to Brown University.
Who took your SATs for you?
Listen, you know, so here's a funny story.
So, and it's something that as coaches, like we've, you know, I, I shouldn't say as coaches,

(14:53):
like I'm a coach, but I've, I've done a little with in youth groups and stuff and I've, I've
tried to share this with people.
So my sophomore year, I'm catching for the high school team and there's a kid who's
a senior, Kevin Buckley.
And you know, you're a sophomore, like you're the catcher, like you just keep your mouth
shut and just do what they tell you to do.

(15:13):
Right?
Like you don't even call on the game at that point.
Like he's telling you what he's throwing, but Kevin's going to Dottmuth and Dottmuth
is watching him.
And Dottmuth comes to watch Kevin because they've, you know, there's a commitment there and
they see me.
And whatever I did when they were there, they liked it.
So like, you know, like no matter, no matter what kid you bump into all the time, like

(15:37):
the messages you don't, like they may not be there to look at you.
Right?
Like they, you know, somebody shows up in the gym or shows up at the field, they may not
become going to look at you.
But if you're playing hard and you're doing all the right things, you might end up on
somebody's radar by mistake.
I'll suck in that.
I'll definitely suck in that.
Crazy, right?
Like the kids don't think that way.
You know, I mean, like all these kids, like they just don't, you know, I don't think that

(15:58):
way.
So that happened to me.
So the next thing, you know, Dottmuth is sending stuff to the house.
Like that's how they used to do it, obviously years ago.
And so my father was a, you know, we've talked about this.
He was, he worked for an oil company, but at night, you know, he was a, he was a basketball
official.
So he, he did a lot of high school and college stuff.

(16:21):
And he was really friendly with this guy, Tommy O'Connell.
O'Connell was a brain tree guy.
So, you know, South Shore guy.
And O'Connell had given up, I think he was like a high school coach at brain tree high
school, went to him and my father were close, but he gave all that up and he, he moved to
New Jersey and took the Princeton job.
So Tommy O'Connell was a guy at Princeton.

(16:41):
So my father's head, like, I don't know anybody at Dottmuth, but Dottmuth is showing my kids
some love.
Let me call, he called him Oki.
Let me call Oki and see if Princeton has any, you know, interest.
And of course as a catcher, like you're going to carry three of them anyway.
So maybe I get half a chance there.
So anyway, I go O'Connell, you know, there's no film back then, right?

(17:02):
So O'Connell goes, listen, we run a baseball camp every summer, send them down and we'll
take a look.
So my father's got to pay whatever cost, drops me a Princeton, takes off, you stay down there
for a week.
At the end of the week, coach O'Connell picked me up on a golf cart one night.
He called the room that I was staying in and said, be outside in three minutes.
So I get in the golf cart, we drive around, he shows me the campus and he goes, listen,

(17:26):
we really like you.
I'd love to see you play here.
But he said, you're SATs are atrocious.
Yeah, he's like, you got to figure it out.
And I think at the time I might have been holding like a 900 and he's like, you got
to figure it out.
And I said, okay.
And he goes, if you can come up 200 points, I'll get you in here.
I said, okay.
So I go back, I tell my parents, so my mother's a teacher.

(17:48):
So she loses her mind that that might be, might be a chance I can go to Princeton or whatever.
So the next thing you know, I'm getting shuttled to some Tudor.
Like two, three times a week trying to figure out how to come up 200 points, you know.
And I ended up being able to do that.
So it worked out.
That's awesome.
Yeah, it's funny.
So you, but you went up at Brown, right?

(18:10):
Yeah.
So Brown showed up football wise.
And because we had so much success in football, like the other two schools had no interest
in me in football.
Oki included like my father.
You were a football guy first.
I think so.
I think in retrospect, baseball was something that I loved to play.
But you know, our baseball team was, you know, 500 maybe.

(18:31):
Like just, you know, we weren't great, but football, we were really, really good.
And you know, there was something about playing.
And like everybody in the city came out for football.
It was like a big thing.
So it was something about playing in front of a lot of people and all that.
So and of course, the opportunity, and this is our vintage, right?
But like nobody specialized in anything.
So the opportunity to go someplace and play too, like then you really think you're rolling,

(18:55):
right?
So, so when Brown came, which they used to do, like schools would come to the high school
and go to the head coach's office.
And then next thing you know, you're getting pulled out of class to go meet the recruiter
or whatever.
Good old days.
Yeah.
So this guy, Denny Marie, never forget it, comes to comes to the high school, pulls me
out, says, listen, this is who I am.
We got some game film.

(19:16):
We're going to look at it.
But you know, we had somebody see you play in the state championship game and we want
to recruit you.
Okay.
So I go back and tell my mother at the time, again, my mother was a teacher and she'd probably
get mad at me for saying this, but she wasn't even sure where Brown was.
I mean, you know, so, but once it kind of got level set that Brown is in the Ivy League

(19:37):
too.
And it's all, you know, it's everybody as good as Princeton and Darmouth.
She was like, okay, on board.
And that's kind of how it went down.
So what we did is we called both Darmouth and Princeton and sent some film and they
would like now, you know, we're good like, you know, football wise.
So then it came back to me, like, do you just go and just play baseball or do you take a
chance and go and play both?

(19:58):
And I took the ladder just try to play both.
So how big were you in high school?
Your senior year?
I'm probably the same height, but weight wise, I was probably only about 180, 175 pounds.
Do you play baseball against Brad Osmos in college?
He go to Dartmouth?
Yeah, I went to Dartmouth.
You know what?

(20:18):
It's around our age.
I don't remember, you know, the guy that I remember up there was a guy that played in
the bigs named Mark Johnson, who was really, really good.
He's a left handed pitcher in first baseman that I remember at Dartmouth, but I don't
remember Brad.
So he might have just been gone by the time.
Okay.
So growing up in the 70s and early 80s in Boston, pretty good professional sports scene

(20:41):
at that time with the Red Sox in the late 70s and obviously Bird coming in and Bruins
always.
Talk a little bit about your experience as a fan, as a kid, because as a kid growing
up, we were Yankee fans, you know, that Munson, Reggie Jackson era.
How about for you?
Anything that stood out in your mind?
Yeah.
I mean, I think, so I think, you know, we didn't go to a lot of games, right?

(21:05):
So you, you're the regional sports network.
So it was before Nessan.
It was, you know, 38, right?
Yeah.
38 would, you know, Hawk Harrelson, they would broadcast the games and, and, and yeah, I
mean, like as kids, like you would, you know, you would be out playing.
Like we played a lot, right?
So you're out playing and you're, you know, you're going through the lineup.
So on one day you're, you're arguing about who's going to be Collier Stremskier, who's

(21:29):
going to be George Scott or who's going to be butch hops and was, you know, diving into
the dugouts and stuff.
Everybody wanted to be butch hops and at the time.
So, and then, I mean, Bird, you know, changed everything in Boston really, like, you know,
his, what, what he did to the city and, and, and how effortlessly, you know, if anything,

(21:51):
Bird made you aggravated as a basketball player because like all the things he did,
it was so effortless.
You'd try to do and you're like, wow, that, this doesn't work out for me, you know.
And then, you know, I did watch a lot of the Bruins.
You know, we, we were a stick hockey neighborhood, you know.
So, you know, everybody wanted to be Stan Jonathan.
You know, everybody wanted to drop the gloves and, you know, be Terry O'Reilly and start

(22:12):
lumping people.
The number was he Terry O'Reilly 24.
Look at this guy.
He fits right in.
I don't think you're going to stump him.
O'Reilly was, O'Reilly was something that of course like, what color was his hair?
What color was O'Reilly's?
Wasn't he a redhead?
No, he wasn't.
No, O'Reilly's brown-haired guy like you.
Okay.
I remember him standing over a whaler or kneeling over a whaler.

(22:32):
I think he knocked him out and had to stop hitting him.
Used to go into the stands after fans.
Yeah, those guys are the right guy.
Right.
I got to come clean.
I hated Cam Neely.
And I'll tell you why.
As a Hartford whaler fan, he used to come to the Civic Center.
He scored two goals.
He'd start a fight, beat the crap out of somebody and the other guy would get like two minutes.
Like it was, I would have loved to have on our team, but he was, yeah, yeah.

(22:56):
Number eight.
Yeah.
He was, uh...
I haven't an off day.
I thought he was six.
He was, uh, he was generational talent.
Oh, he was like the first, like, like guy that could see why I hated him.
Yeah, he could skate, he could score, and then he could beat your brains.
Yeah, he was a goalie, hellhead.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was number six, Gord Cluzac.
Is that what I'm taking up?
Yeah, I think Cluzac, he was a defenseman.

(23:18):
I think he did with a big guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, huge.
All right.
With right here.
No.
Talking about the, that era, though, it was just like it was a struggle with the Pats,
right?
So, like, like, like Sam Bam, you had Steve Brogan with the neck.
Yeah, you know, the neck roll.
Stanley Morgan.
Yeah, Stanley Morgan.
He was a hell of a player.
Yeah, he was.
They were, they had good teams, though.

(23:39):
They just, uh...
So, Craig James, did you have a guy?
As a kid, did you have a guy?
With, with, with, uh...
Any of the teams, like, who was your guy?
Who was your guy?
I think, I think at a real young age, you know, I don't have the time in front of me, but
I think Hopson was my guy from a baseball standpoint.
He struck out a lot, but you know, it sort of died.
But I mean, like, he just played the game really, really hard, right?

(24:01):
And then, uh, so from a baseball standpoint, I think as a young guy, I identify with him.
I didn't start catching until I got into high school.
So it was, I was an infielder, so I kind of get into him.
And then, um, I don't think there was really anybody that stood out with the Pats for me
until I got into high school.
And then you started to look at, like, you know, the, the, the Irving Friars of the world

(24:22):
that were put in touchdowns in their pocket left and right.
And then, you know, again, uh, anybody that was like an O'Reilly or Peter McNeve, anybody
that was a real grinder and a hot nose guy for the Bruins, uh, and then of course Bird.
I mean, like, you know, he was, he was just great to watch.
Um, so.
I love the Hopson call because you could go on like Rice and Lynn and Yaz and right down

(24:44):
the, and then you get a grinder, like, like Hopson.
Those are our kind of players too.
Yeah.
He played a year.
Did any of the bone chips in his elbow?
Yeah.
He did.
He had elbow, and I didn't even know what bone chips were.
Yeah.
What's the matter with him?
You had a couple of coffee with the Yankees.
Angry J.
Hopson.
I don't know.
I don't remember that.
I think for a second he did.
He might have, he might have like a couple weeks.
Yeah.
Breaks my heart, Dave, that we're even talking about that because like those were the guys

(25:06):
we all identified with and wanted to be like, cause you know, I mean, you guys probably
different than me, but like I had to do that kind of stuff to like make a difference in
anything.
And like those guys don't even get noticed now because they're probably not paying their
AAU and travel coaches enough money to get at the right showcases.
But you know, guys like that, you know, they, I don't know where they'd fit in today.

(25:30):
Even the great Greg Maddox is my biggest one.
Like not to get on a kind of crazy tangent here, but like if Maddox pitched today, they,
everyone would be bitching them over about all the strike calls because it has stupid
square they put on the television screen now, right?
I wanted to bring this up in a couple of weeks when we had a chance to just spiff ball, but

(25:52):
like I'm, I'm done with instant replay.
I'm done with it.
I'm done with it in any sense.
I don't care if the guy bobbled the ball.
I don't care if the nose touched the ground.
I don't care if the first basements foot came off by an inch and they banged you out.
Those make great stories.
It's accepting the human element and errors part of it.
And it, and it's adverse, you know, you got to deal with it.

(26:15):
Guys have lost World Series and perfect games on bad calls.
Deal with it.
You know what I mean?
There's no moving on.
Now it's, see, I was right.
You know, when you do the replay and then you don't learn anything from that.
And no Brown throwing his hands up every time he gets scratched on his shoulder or whatever
and like, stop it.
You got, you may have been hit.
Go play defense.
You know, you may have been hit.
Run back.
However you feel about it.

(26:35):
Like they put it in years ago, but we're supposed to be just the home run, the foul
poll or, or if it just cleared the fence and that inference.
And I complained about it because you, as soon as they bring it in a little bit, it's
going to, and then I was like, well, if we could call home run fair or foul, you know,
what it was like when there's a play at first base, what's going to happen?

(26:56):
I can't do that.
And it has, and you're talking about now, like there's going to be a time where the
home play umpire is not existing.
But that's sad.
It takes away from what that sport, how that sport was meant to be played.
It was meant to be officiated by guys who occasionally get it wrong.
Okay.
And, and we can't play without them.
There's such a shortage even on the high school level, you know, I was at a high school game

(27:20):
the other night and there was a coach from another conference in front of me.
Uh, East Hampton boys coach.
I said, you're not playing tonight.
It goes no officials.
Like what the freak, you know, but like even in college, you see these guys start going
like this with their finger, like replay it.
It's not replaying it.
Right.
We're not replaying it.
They call it for white with white ball right here.

(27:40):
What a guy's pointing.
It doesn't matter who it went off.
You know what I'm saying?
In Reggie Miller, when he tackled, you know, why can't we review that stuff then Reggie
tackled it.
The next he grabbed it and shot a three.
Okay.
Hold on.
Immaculate reception.
Do we know that whether he caught it or not?
Great story either way.
Tom Brunanski clinching the, uh, the, uh, pennant for the, for the socks back in the day before

(28:02):
there was 50 camera angles.
Yeah.
Convincing never caught that ball.
He didn't catch it.
Go Yanks.
Get rid of instant replay in every sport.
But you made you think of that.
All this.
You made me think of guys who aren't relevant, wouldn't be relevant today as much as they
were.
And Greg Maddox, like guy through 89 miles an hour and dominated the league.

(28:22):
Do you think Greg Maddox most gold gloves of all time 18?
Do you think Greg Maddox would even be looked at coming out of high school?
That's my point.
Like it, like it is artificial metric that if you don't throw 90, you can't pitch at
the division one level.
That's a joke.
That's a joke.
You want to know it's even worse is a lot of the schools.

(28:43):
If you're our height and you throw like 90, they're like, well, thanks.
Not big enough.
Not big enough.
Right.
That gets insane.
Like we were, we were, I won't mention the school, but we were coaching in the tournament
and we had one of the Shapa guys who you know, and I won't mention him too.
Cause I don't want to do that to guys.
Maybe they don't want their name out there, but who was good, lefty.
And he's, he's signed a contract on the whole thing.

(29:05):
So he's playing at the professional level now and we got a, we got a college coach saying,
yeah, I got, I got three guys thrown 90 and we're like, listen chief, he misses
barrels.
You understand?
Like, we're not dummies.
I know we're just summer coaches and whatever, but like this guy was a teammate at JAWS.
And he basically told JAWS, I got three, I got three left.
He said, I throw a 90.
Okay, good.

(29:25):
He's throwing 88 and he misses barrels every at bat.
They just can't hit him and he passed on him.
And I think that's a huge gap in college recruiting.
And to your point about Maddox, if Maddox is in, is 18 wherever he came from and he's
throwing 88 in today's game, they're not even looking at him.
Might be a division three pitcher.
Right.

(29:46):
That's unbelievable.
I'm not kidding.
I talked to those guys too.
It's unbelievable.
All right.
Sorry to get off on that, but getting back to your time at Brown.
Two sports there.
You played two sports at Brown?
Yeah.
So, you know, it's funny.
Probably not the greatest of athletic experiences.
So they had freshman football then.

(30:08):
So played that.
And then played a little bit of my sophomore year.
And then ultimately went straight baseball.
So I basically played, let's call it two years football, one of them being freshman football.
And then I played straight baseball.
And I did that largely because I think that won.
I came from a winning program.
And so like you guys know, like when you're, when you're used to winning, which is half

(30:31):
of the driver in the decision making for me to go play football, because I did have all
those experiences in high school, my first year down there.
And again, we played freshman, but we were out there with the velocity.
They were 0, 9 and 1.
Oh boy.
So they were 7 and 3 when they recruited us and had a kid at quarterback whose name,
I can't remember now, but I'll get drafted by the Giants.
So like I'm coming into a program that I think is on the right path.

(30:55):
And they go 0, 9 and 1.
And when you're, when you're used to winning and now you're out practicing in November
at night under the lights and your team is like 0 and 7.
You're like, what am I doing here?
When's baseball start?
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
And that's ultimately what happened is that I just, I just made a, and then they were
moving me around.
I, I went in there free safety, then they moved me to strong.

(31:17):
And then next thing you know, I'm like the weak side inside linebacker.
I'm like, what am I doing?
Like, you know what I mean?
I'm, I'm a two sport athlete.
I can't weigh 240.
Like, you know, it's not going to work out.
So I was slow enough to begin with.
So I went just straight baseball, Dave Stenhouse.
God rest his soul.
He just passed this year.
But Dave Stenhouse was the coach, pitched in the bigs for years and just the best of

(31:39):
guys.
And I played for him.
And then I told my rotator cuff up in Dottmuth my junior year and had to come out of the
game and never went back.
That was it.
That was it?
Yeah.
It's surgery that summer.
It's surgery with Arthur Pappas, Red Sox surgeon.
Oh, hey.
Yeah.
Dr. Pappas.
Yeah.
He did the job at UMass Medical Center.
Another unbelievable thing my father did.

(32:00):
So he couldn't figure out what we were going to do and just random calls the UMass Medical
Center because he read Pappas' name in the Boston Globe.
Just calls out there.
And it's like, listen, my kid's a catcher.
I don't know if he's ever going to be able to play again, but I really would like Dr.
Pappas to do the deal.
And they call my father back and said, send us all the medical records.

(32:21):
And what year is this?
91.
Jeez.
That summer.
Could that happen nowadays?
No.
It's funny, right?
Yeah, it's incredible.
What a great world it was back then, man.
Called out there, explained the story to Pappas' basically executive assistant.
He didn't talk to the doctor.
And then when I went out, we went out for the consult.

(32:42):
Like Pappas was exactly how you remember him.
I swear to God, his eyebrows were about six inches thick.
But super smart guy, great guy.
And he was the one who said, I can do one or two things.
I can completely repair your shoulder.
And you're looking at 18 months.
So back then they didn't have the same.
And nowadays that same surgery would probably be like six months.
18 months, physical therapy, recovery, whatever.

(33:06):
Or I can go in and shave the bone down and create a pathway so that there's less impingement.
You'll never play again.
You won't be able to throw the ball with the same velocity or whatever.
But you can have a catch with your kid and you can go on and live your life.
So obviously we took option B and that's what I did.
Your roommate.

(33:26):
Football player?
Yeah, yeah.
Coach O'Brien.
Coach Bill O'Brien.
What position was he in college?
So he was a defensive lineman.
So I think Obe, just like all of us, I think Obe came in.
So first of all, we played against each other in high school.
He's a St. John's Prep guy.
Oh, no way.
Yeah, he grew up.
So I grew up in Wolbin, which is about 10 miles up 93 from Boston.
Obe grew up in Andover, which is just another, let's call it, 10, 15 miles up 93.

(33:53):
So he played at St. John's Prep and we played those guys.
He played with some great players.
So he played with the guy Mike Panos.
There was a linebacker at Boston College.
It was a tremendous player.
But anyway, Billy came.
He was a defensive and when he first got the brown and then they made him a defensive tackle.

(34:14):
Random assigning of roommates or?
So he came in.
Obe started in like January.
So everybody else started.
So our freshman year.
He missed all the freshman football and I don't really know whether it was like a waitlist
deal.
I can't remember, but he started in January, but he would come down a lot, especially in

(34:35):
the weekends.
So like, and his cousin, Jimmy Burke was on the football team.
He was an Abington kid.
So you know, we just kind of became fast friends and and and then when we got to sophomore
year, he lived with me and then, you know, it was it was Obe and I.
He was Obe Tommy Blanford and I have sophomore year and then I think just Obe and I are junior

(34:58):
year.
And obviously you follow his career.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So made a big, big transition recently.
Listen, it was, it was, it's kind of a surreal story.
So while I was kind of on the pathway with the Secret Service, you know, that's, that's
what, and we'll talk about that.
It's a long journey, right?
Like it's, it takes a while to go through that whole application process.

(35:19):
So I was teaching as a substitute and coaching on the football team at high, at my high school.
And I had just kind of met my wife and we went down because he was, he was coaching.
Like, I think he took a job right out of school coaching like the linebackers or something
at Brown.
And we went down and stayed at his apartment and he said to me, Hey, I can't remember who

(35:42):
who was there.
I might have been Mark Whipple, but I can't remember who the head coach was at the time.
But I remember what he was saying to me, like, Hey, listen, they're looking for like a secondary
guy.
Like, do you want the job?
Like, I'll talk to, I think it was Mark Whipple.
He said, I talked to Whip and like, yeah, do you want the job?
And I said, well, what's it pay?
And pay like $3,500.

(36:02):
Right?
So I'm like, like, can I think about it?
I'll call you.
And meanwhile, like I'm driving up 95 after with, you know, my girlfriend at the time
and my wife now and I'm like $3,500.
Like, how, like, how do you, like, what do you do?
Like, you know what I mean?
And I think, you know, obviously at that stage, Obie's parents would kind of help
him.
He was the youngest.
I was the oldest.
I'm not going to my father asking for some money to offset my coaching aspiration.

(36:25):
But like, I mean, obviously, Obie's gone and he's, you know, he's, he's done really
well.
I could have been you.
You could have been with him.
He's done really, really well.
Right.
Like, and he's done really, really well on the offensive side of the ball, which is super
interesting.
Did he just take the Ohio State?
Yes.
Yeah.
Is that what it is?
Yeah.
Now, have you, have you visited him at his other stops?
Penn State?
Penn State.

(36:46):
The Texans and Bama, right?
Yeah.
So he started, but he started, so he went from, he went from, he went from Brown to a GA role
at Georgia Tech.
And what was cool was my brother was there at the time.
Oh my God.
So it was unbelievable.
So like, you know, so my brother's down there while Obie's down there and he went from being
a Duke, didn't he?
Or Duke too?
Yeah.

(37:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
He went, so he went to Georgia Tech as a GA.
George O'Leary was the head coach down there at the time.
Oh, all right.
And he was a GA under Ralph Friesen, who was a legendary offensive mind, right?
So Obie goes down there and then he kind of matriculated.
I don't know what all his stops were like, maybe one year you coached the running backs
and then, you know, but, but bottom line is he got to a place where he was the offensive

(37:29):
coordinator at Georgia Tech under O'Leary.
Oh, wow.
So here's a story I haven't told you.
So O'Leary gets the head job at Notre Dame.
Obie goes, he gets flown out.
I wish he was here to tell you the story of left your ass off.
So he gets flown out on the Notre Dame jet, him and his wife calling.

(37:50):
The jet's white, like he's got to go to an FBO, so the small airport, right?
Down in Georgia, gets on this jet.
Every seat on the jet is that Notre Dame blue with the Notre Dame insigniaire and the head
rest.
Just the two of them on the jet.
They fly to South Bend.

(38:10):
He meets, you know, he signs it.
He gets his contract.
He finds his contract.
He meets with the quarterbacks.
He's going to be the new offensive coordinator at Notre Dame.
It's done.
It's done.
Flies back to Georgia to kind of close things out.
And he's laying in bed and his phone's blown up and he's like, who's like that?

(38:30):
So he ignores the cell phone and then, you know, he's got a house phone.
So then the house phone starts.
So he gets out of bed because he thinks maybe it's like a medical emergency, something going
on with his family, like whatever.
And it's Georgia Larry telling him that he forgot to back something out of his resume
that didn't really happen.
And that he's going to, they're going to rescind the offer.

(38:51):
You guys all remember that?
Yeah.
Oh my goodness gracious.
I was a Notre Dame fan back then.
It was incredible.
So like, oh, be like, oh, be basically crush now.
Like you, you know, so he, to this day, I think he's got, I think he told me he's got
framed the contract, the Notre Dame, and then the rescinded contract.
No way.
No way.

(39:11):
Like you guys have stuff framed here.
He's got like, yeah.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
So he, you know, he was fortunate.
He went back.
Georgia Tech had already offered the role to Chan Galey.
So he went back and he, he was Chan Galey's offensive coordinator and I think associate
head coach for a year.
And then he bounced out of there.
And I think he went from there to Duke, although he might have went to Maryland first.

(39:32):
I can't remember.
Because that's where Phreogen ended up.
Maryland.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you were in Penn State, Houston or Bama?
Yeah.
All three.
All three.
Yeah.
All three.
What was, what sticks out in your mind from any of those three places?
Thinking Bama must be crazy.
So let's, let's go, let's go Penn State first.

(39:54):
So I thought Penn State was, was really, really, I mean, listen, you know, he was the guy after
paternal.
Yeah.
So that's like a, yeah.
It was, it was really kind of an interesting deal.
So I was at my office, my office, the secret service, a New York field office.
And I had stayed over that night.
We had, we were doing something out in the street that night.

(40:16):
So I stayed, we were down in Brooklyn.
And my phone rings and it's him early in the morning, like 6.37 o'clock.
And I'm like, what, what, coach, what's up?
You know, I'm catching up.
And he's like, listen, I gotta run something by ya.
He said, Penn State or the Jacksonville Jaguars.
I said, what are you talking about?
He said, that's on the table right now.
He said, Penn State or the Jacksonville Jaguars.

(40:38):
And I said, take the Jaguars job.
I said, the Penn State mess, is it going to be a huge distraction?
And I swear to you guys, I said this at the time, I said, Joe Paterno's going to die in
the middle of this whole thing.
I said, because somebody that age is not going to be able to handle the stress that goes
with this thing.
And he goes, he goes, you wouldn't believe this place.
I go, what place?
He goes, Penn State, Colleen and I are out here.

(41:00):
He said, you wouldn't believe Happy Valley.
He goes, Mike, it's unbelievable out here.
He was like so enamored with the fact that he's going to have the keys here.
He's like, you wouldn't believe this place.
He goes, I think we can do some good things here.
I said, I get after it.
So he took it.
And we went out for the Wisconsin game when they kicked the field, either in overtime

(41:20):
or pretty close to overtime to win it.
At the end of his first year, he went eight and four.
I went out with Meredith and Colin Brook.
We all went out and went back to his house after and like the whole party.
He had the whole coach and staff there was unbelievable.
And that night, Cleveland was calling him.
They wanted to give him a job.
And he said, I can't do one.
I can't do just one year here.

(41:41):
Like, you know, he had a rough road at Penn State.
Yeah, he first time taking over that.
That was a legend.
Yeah, I mean, so first of all, he went in there in the middle of like Louis Free, who's
a former FBI director.
His firm was running the investigation.
So like every day he had to go to a conference room and get briefed on where they were.

(42:02):
Because like trying to figure out who might have been involved or knew it, that was still
there from.
Oh, man.
Like everybody thinks of like, you know, as a head coach, you're only responsible for
the kids and the coach and staff.
You've got the whole program.
Yeah, he got it.
You got the custodians.
You got the executive assistants.
You got everybody.
So like who was connected to this?

(42:24):
And like, so these investigations are going on and Louis Free's got a bunch of like professional
investigators that are doing interviews and putting some pressure on people to try to
find out like how deep does this thing go?
And it was pretty deep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then, you know, he tried to incentivize, you know, to incentivize kids to stay.

(42:46):
He had to deal with that.
I remember it was a huge controversial thing.
He wanted the names of the kids on their backs so that everybody in the stands knew that
that kid stayed.
You know, that's pretty cool.
Oh, I got to ask you.
Did he catch a lot of crap from the alumni enough to fit?
Because he's the guy replacing the guy.

(43:06):
As I understand it, like there were two camps, right?
Like you got Jay Paternal that was on the coaching staff there.
Yeah.
Right?
And then you've got like, like an Al Golden who I think is a really good guy.
At least I've heard.
But him and Jay were like real close, right?
And then you've got Lavar Arrington who's got a big voice and wanted things to go a
certain way.
So like there's a lot there to unpack.

(43:27):
And you're just trying to, I mean, one thing about him is he just, he's just trying to
win football games.
Like, you know, and that's a coach.
Yeah.
That's part of why I told him, take the Jacksonville job.
I mean, like all you got to do is just go put some X's and O's and let those guys do
that thing.
This is going to be something else.
And like things like the statue coming down.
Oh man.
All that type of stuff was big.
That was, that was, man, they covered it live on ESPN, I remember.

(43:48):
Right.
And then the guy was attached to all of it unfairly, right?
I mean, just cause he's a skipper.
All right.
How about the Texans?
Yeah.
Texans went down.
Beautiful facility.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Top shelf, top shelf facility brand, you know, not brand new, but pretty new.
And it's, it's, it's in Houston, you know, so you're right basically in the, it's a little
offset, but you're basically right in the city.

(44:10):
You know, we went to baseball trip down there and it's right next to the Astrodome.
And the Astrodome was the eighth one in the world when they, it's twice the size of the
Astro.
Really?
It's unbelievable.
Yeah.
And the Cowboys Stadium dwarfs that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The Cowboys do it right.
All right.

(44:30):
Bama.
I mean, I just imagine that's a different world.
Yeah.
It, I don't know.
So I didn't go down for an SEC game.
I can't remember who they played, but so it was crazy, but wasn't ultra crazy, right?
Like they, you know, they've told me that if it's an SEC opponent, like it's complete
Cuckooville down there.

(44:50):
But yeah, like his situation at Alabama was much different than any of his other stops
because his son Michael, who I told you about, who's, who's a great athlete and is over at
Tufts now, you know, Michael was still in high school.
So he didn't move the family with him to Alabama.
So excuse me, he was living in a condo, right?

(45:14):
So, and, you know, like I just said, like he's just 100% football centric.
So his condo was walking distance to the football offices in the stadium.
So, you know, there's nothing really that I saw anyway outside of Tuscaloosa except
for, you know, I don't want to say just the football, but the football piece of this thing

(45:37):
is enormous, you know, from the football offices to the stadium, to all of the things around
the stadium that contribute to, you know, the environment that day.
They shut the streets down like the president's coming.
I mean, every street shut down like that.
You would know.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's an amazing environment.
It really is.
So talk about your career, talk about your service.

(46:01):
How did that come about?
How did how the service come about?
Yeah, how did you, what's the road to the White House?
Yeah, it's kind of a, it was kind of a weird deal.
So when I was at Brown, Mikhail Gorbachev was supposed to do the commencement address.
So when the secret service does something, it's, they're always like a week to 10 days

(46:22):
ahead coming out and doing an advance, you know, and making sure that everything's buttoned
up and ultimately probably more on Gorbachev's schedule than anything else, but the trip
was canceled.
But it did kind of interest me and like, who are these cats?
Like what is this all about?
So I had, my father had twin brothers and they were both cops up in the Boston area.

(46:45):
So I asked them like, hey, what's the story with the secret service?
Like who are these guys?
And they're like, hey, you know, that's a, that's a really, like basically suggesting
like that might be a little out of reach.
Like that's a really hard thing to go through.
Like there's only 2000 of them in the world.
The attrition rate is like less than 3%.
Like at the time, I mean, you're talking like 1991, 92.

(47:09):
So of course, like any other competitive nitwit, like that drove my interest, right?
Like, you know, what else do I have to do?
Right.
So, so I went, a buddy of mine, John Skinner was playing in a, an all-star game, a football
game in Japan.
So he needed a passport and I think he needed a visa from Japan to go, right?

(47:31):
So he had to take a trip to the Tip O'Neill building in Boston to get this squared away.
So I took the trip with him.
So you guys have all seen the lines of the passport office.
So he's standing in line.
I get on the elevator, I go to the secret service office, just walk in, ding, ding, you know,
and I asked for some information.
I told the woman behind the thing, like I'm interested, I'm still in college.

(47:53):
I'm interested in learning more, whatever they sent the guy out.
The guy spent half hour talking to me in the, in the wake.
Yeah, it just showed up.
It just showed up unannounced.
Holy cow.
You and your father, you guys got the way.
So, oh Jesus.
Right.
You got the pepper.
Yeah.
So he, so the guy gave me a bunch of stuff, included his business card and that was kind
of like the, at that point, you know, the hook was baited at that point.

(48:16):
So how did you graduate from Brown?
Yeah.
How did you go right in?
No, so I graduated from Brown and I, I graduated from Brown and I put an application in and
used that to fill it out.
So I had my aunt was in the medical community and so she had somebody that worked in her
office that was like, you know, she would do type in on the side, you know, for whatever

(48:38):
25 bucks she typed something out.
So this woman typed out my whole application and everything and then I sent it in.
So they called me in, like I went in for like a formal interview.
Like I had to go get a suit and the whole thing and I went in and they said like, you
know, listen, we, we like you, but you just don't have any like life experience.
Like you haven't done anything.
Like just going to college enough is not enough.

(48:59):
I'm like, okay.
So now I'm kind of on the scramble for like what is life experience look like.
So like I took the, I went down to Rutgers one time.
I took the New Jersey state police test.
I was like, okay, I'll try to go that route.
And I just was kind of scrambling and I was out to dinner one night and a buddy of mine,
a kid I grew up with comes over.

(49:21):
I'm at a booth at a 99 restaurant with my, then my girlfriend, but my wife now.
And so this buddy comes over and he, he goes, Hey, you know, like we're catching up.
Like what are you trying to do?
I saw, I got this thing with the secret service, but they tell me I need experience.
And he goes, well, listen, I'm an investigator at the district attorney's office in Boston.
And he said, I'm, I'm leaving.

(49:42):
Nobody knows yet, but I just got a job with probation, which is a little bit better job
for me.
And I want to make a career out of being a probation officer.
I'm going to take that job.
Do you want to fill my slot?
I think I can help you.
I said, absolutely.
He said, get me a, I didn't even know anything about the job.
I had no idea.
I didn't ask him what the job description was.
I didn't care.
Like the fact that like that might be the experience road I need to get on.

(50:04):
So I got him a resume and boom, I got hired within probably, I don't know, a month to
replace this guy.
And I worked in the district attorney's office in Boston as an investigator.
Oh wow.
You must be some stories.
Oh yeah.
I came in right after the Chuck Stewart thing.
So I came into a super divided city.
So you got the prosecutor's office Ralph Martin was a former assistant U.S. attorney that

(50:30):
replaced Newman Flanagan, who was the DA at the time, was the DA at the time of the Chuck
Stewart murder basically.
And the Boston police, the division between the Boston police specifically their homicide
unit and our office, the DA's office was huge.
So I spent like two years there.

(50:51):
It was unbelievable experience.
Then you got into the, can you tell like our guys, there are already against about some
amount of training and how they weed out people and how many, like you said, the nutrition
rate is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so back then the, and the process could have changed now.

(51:12):
I'm not entirely sure, but back then you'd have your initial interview, then you'd have
to pass an exam.
So there was an exam and you just needed to get a 70, but it was a, it was a challenging
interview.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that, so that was kind of like the first thing that they probably weed you out on.
And then, because if you didn't get the 70 yet a way to get it again.

(51:32):
And then again, just talk about stupid luck.
The service wasn't offering the test, but the ATF was.
Okay.
Because they were part of the treasury at the same time.
It was the same test.
So I went to a post office in Beverly, Massachusetts and took the ATF test.
And then I applied that score and the service took it.
Okay.
And I was like, you know, for any, at least any kids that listen to this, like luck plays

(51:56):
a huge part in everything, right?
Like it's, you can't even quantify it really.
Like that was just dumb luck.
So how many guys are going in with you and like, how do they?
Yeah.
So it, so you're, you're a solo applicant for most of it until you get to the test, right?
And then a test you might go in and there could be three guys or there could be 10 guys
dependent on what the, you know, what the opening is.

(52:18):
But then from the test, there's a panel, there used to be a panel interview, so you'd have
three senior guys.
Okay.
That's what I was wondering.
Yeah.
They just pound and questions at you.
Like, and the questions are pretty, pretty like looking back on it now, they're pretty
straightforward.
They can integrity kind of focus questions or judgment questions, but you know, I was like,
young guy, you're trying to figure out what are these guys want me to say.
Yeah.

(52:39):
Yeah.
And I was like, like we talked about, I was a grinder.
So I was half a ham ahead.
So like they had a, they had, they had a question on there about like you and your partner go
to arrest a guy.
You got a warrant for a guy on the criminal side of the house and the door opens in this,
you know, it's just you and your partner and there's like four or five of these guys and
they basically said, well, you know, you're not taking Bobby like, you know, hey, we got

(52:59):
a warrant for Bobby, but you're not taking Bobby.
He's not going with you.
And then like, how'd you handle that?
I said, well, Bob's getting arrested.
Like we'll handle it.
Bob's getting arrested.
And they're like, no, no, we just want to know like, how would you handle it?
I said, I'm not really sure, but Bob's getting arrested that day.
Trust me.
And like, they shut off the recorder because they used to record the interviews and they're
like, you'd probably call for backup, right?

(53:21):
Like you'd probably just make the scene a little safer and call for backup.
I'm like, oh yeah, we can do that too, but no, I'm getting arrested.
They're like, okay, ham ahead.
Like just, we got it.
Like, you know, you can handle yourself and you're going to arrest Bob, but we're trying
to get the HR focused answer here.
So it's pretty funny.
But then you, you know, you graduate from that and you go to a polygraph exam and you

(53:44):
got a clear, you got a clear polygraph exam and there's questions that are focused on
national security because they got to give you security clearance based off of it.
And then there's lifestyle questions.
So questions that have to do with drug use, questions that have to do with your association
with serious crime and then, you know, whether or not you falsified anything on that application
that that woman typed for me.
So, and then from there, the only way, if you clear the polygraph again, back then the

(54:09):
only other process, the only other aspect was a medical.
So you go see their doctors.
So like you might-
So they're checking out your shoulder.
Yeah.
Like you might think you're healthy, but like they're looking at, you know, because for
them, they hire you and you have a preexisting injury that they don't know about or whatever.

(54:31):
And you do like, you know, a month on the job and then you say, I can't work anymore.
You got 66 and two thirds of whatever your salary was for the rest of your life.
I mean, there's, there's a fraudulent aspect to all that, but that's what they're up against.
So that's why they drill into your, your medical background.
Were you worried about that shoulder?
No, no, I disclosed it.
Yeah.
But honestly, like I never had a physical like that.

(54:52):
I mean, like, you know, you're a 26, 27 year old kid.
I never had a physical like that.
Right.
Like that gave me EKGs and all the, you know, things like, so you really, what you're kind
of worried about is what are these cats going to find that my, my primary kid doesn't know
about, you know.
So, but it, you know, it all worked out.
And then, you know, once you get your commission and when she gets your appointment, then the
training is about five, five, six months.

(55:14):
That's it.
What does that consist of?
Like, is it hardcore?
Like how many, what's the percentage of applicants become actual seeker service guys?
I don't, I couldn't tell you again, like back then what percentage get weeded out.
I would say.
Is it like in Navy Seals?
Yeah, I would say back then anyway, anyway, it was probably pretty high.

(55:35):
Now, you know, the, there's a couple of, like back when I went through, you couldn't, you
had, you, drugs were zero.
Like you couldn't have even experimented with a drug.
They've got allowances now for drug use because they, I think they realize, I mean, cannabis
is legal in a lot of places.
I think they realize that they, they have to have some sort of flexibility there, but

(55:56):
it was zero when I went through.
So if you were a kid that took a drag off a joint in college, just being a dumb kid,
you were done.
Like, I was sorry, like move on.
So I think that, I think that in of itself moved a lot of guys on.
But like, so the way the trading was, was brokered is they, they take you for a week
to, to DC.

(56:16):
And so you'd go to headquarters, you'd sign a bunch of nondisclosures and all those types
of things.
You'd meet your, your cohort, right?
The class, and they usually was about 50.
So, you know, two groups of 25.
And then they'd fly you, you'd get on a, everybody get on a plane and you'd fly down to Glencoe,
Georgia, which is the federal law enforcement training centers down in Glencoe, Georgia.

(56:40):
And you'd spend the first three months, let's call it down there.
And it was like a boot camp.
Like it was PT focused.
Is it mentally challenging?
Like do they, I think, I think most of the challenge was just like the heat, like you're
down and like, you know, North, you know, like South Georgia, you know, North Florida,
like, you know, the bugs, like, you know, all the different things that go with that

(57:03):
region of the country made it a little bit more challenging.
And they're not stressing out to where it's like two hours of sleep and you got to get
up and start working on it again.
No, no, no.
But they did.
I mean, you know, it's a big team thing.
So like, you know, you could be super fit and, you know, be able to, to run for days.
But you know, you're only as good a runner as the guy next year, right?

(57:24):
So they start to instill that right away.
So like, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a mental shift that a lot of guys have to go
through.
You're in this process, you get yourself in a great shape and then you go down there
and they go, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna go for a run.
And you know, you got guys running right with the instructors and like, you know, they're
there at the front of the pack and you're not really sure how long you're going for.

(57:45):
But then, then at some point, maybe you, maybe you run for about an hour and at some point
you're going to turn around and you got to go back and get somebody that maybe didn't
take their fitness as serious as you did.
And some people are okay with that.
And other people get a little pissed off about it, right?
Like, you know, this.
But it keeps happening.
Yeah.
You know, so there's some of that.

(58:06):
But then, so a lot of what goes on there is just kind of giving you your foundation of
what like, you know, a lot of federal law, like, so you spend a lot of time with legal
instructors that explain the constitution to you to explain, you know, federal law and
the, in the, in the way that you have to kind of manage, you know, federal investigations.
And then, then you get sent home for about a week.

(58:29):
And then you go to the secret service training facility, which is in Beltsville, Maryland.
Okay.
And that's, that's all, that's all specific to secret service.
So they don't, when you're down at Georgia, you could be down here in the child line with
guys from customs, guys from the border patrol, guys from different, you know, it's like a,
it's like a huge training facility.

(58:50):
And you have your own cutouts, but like, you know, you see those guys in the gym or you
see those guys running or you see those guys in the child line.
Um, when you get to Beltsville, Maryland, it's a hundred percent secret service.
And what's the, what's the focus there?
It's mostly all the core stuff that the service does.
So all your protection methodology, the investigations that the service does.

(59:10):
And again, back when I was there, it was really just counterfeit and like white collar fraud.
And now it's a lot of electronic crimes.
And then threat investigations, like, you know, and there's a, there's a huge mental health
component with the threat investigations.
To be most of the people that threaten the president of the United States have a mental
health deficiency.
Uh, so you, you actually get trained by doctors and nurses and public mental health professionals

(59:35):
that kind of walk you through how to manage interpersonal discussions with these, these
folks.
I mean, most of the time they, they don't have the means or the method, but the service
runs out on every threat.
You threaten the president no matter where you are or what you did or whether you meant
it or not, if you're identified, someone's going to come and talk to you about it.
They've probably been busy as of late.

(59:56):
Last couple stops, but, um, how many stops did you have before finding yourself your
way through the White House?
So I started in Boston and I stayed there.
Um, so near Wilburne.
What's that?
Is that near Wilburne?
No.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:00:16):
It's near Wilburne.
Um, I stayed there.
Um, I started in Boston and then I was kind of up to, I think, I think, you know, five
years was kind of a, the, the metric where you were getting ready to go to the White
House.
Um, and then the Democratic National Convention was announced at what used to be the Fleet Center.
It was now the TD bond.
So I stayed and helped run the security operation for that.

(01:00:40):
So that kept me in district for another two years.
So I actually did like seven and change in Boston, which was long.
Um, I had other buddies that went down, you know, four or five years, but I didn't mind.
I mean, we had both our kids up, up there and, you know, all our family was there, both sides
of our family.
So it worked out fine.
And then, um, I got assigned to the division that protects the president, which is presidential
protective division.

(01:01:01):
Um, and that wasn't back then again, that wasn't an auto bid.
Like people had to speak up for you.
It was, uh, it was, uh, you know, they took a look at your career to date and then you
had to have some people say, yeah, this, this individual squared away and would represent
the division the right way.
You know, so, uh,
was that like a big, big moment?
Like career wise?

(01:01:21):
Yeah.
Um, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, it's the, it's the highest level of protection
the United States.
Yeah.
So it's a few years from you walking up to saying, I want to apply for the secret service.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, again, it's like luck is just a funny thing, right?
The guy walking up to me at that night, having dinner with the next thing.
You know, I got that job and then it leads on.

(01:01:42):
So, um, but yeah, I, uh, I reported down there.
Um, what year is that?
Roughly.
Yeah.
So I got the, I got the appointment in 2004 and I, um, but it was, it was like around,
it was, it was late December.
Um, and what we did is I went down early January of 2005 and, um, my wife and the kids, we sold

(01:02:07):
our house, but we were having a house built in Virginia.
So she stayed with her parents.
And I went down and crashed with a buddy because we didn't, you know, we, her house wasn't
done and there was really no sense of rent in the house and having her, you know, so,
and I didn't really know my way around down there.
So I figured like, all right, you stay up here where you're comfortable and you get some
support.
I'll go down and try to figure out where the grocery store is, you know, all the different

(01:02:28):
things that the schools, all that type of stuff.
So, um, yeah.
So it worked out.
So you get on the presidential detail.
Mm hmm.
And I think there's a little bit about that.
Yeah.
So this probably, uh, so the presidential protective division probably has like, it's,
think of it like as a small battalion.
So there's probably about 500 people that, that make up that division and various assignments

(01:02:50):
to include all the admin support that goes with it.
Um, and I would say, so the, you know, you have an operational arm and that operational
group is, is the group that really kind of travels a day to day, right?
So those guys are reporting or men and women are reporting to the White House every day.
And then, you know, you've got some specialty groups.
You've got some tactical groups.

(01:03:11):
You've got, um, you know, we use a plain clothes group.
Uh, that is, um, you know, they, they, they got their, um, they got their methodology
from the RUC in Northern Ireland.
And so they, they're tasking is to blend with every environment that the president's
in.
So if you're, you know, yeah.
Yeah.
They don't even, yeah, they're not even as a normal, everyday citizen like you have

(01:03:32):
no idea.
You guys have no radios, no pins.
I mean, they're legitimately ghosts, but if like the president was doing a stop in
New Hampshire at a diner, those guys are in there having breakfast just like every other
Joe citizen.
Do you know where the, uh, man office for those folks is?
Cause I want to just walk right in and tell them I want that job.
No, you'd be perfect for it.
You'd be perfect for it.

(01:03:53):
Yeah.
You'd blend perfect.
So, um, and then there's, there's a group dedicated to the transportation aspect.
So they work with the White House military office to coordinate planes and cars and helicopters
and all that type of stuff.
So that's a whole nother thing.
So, um, and again, you've got your supervisory group and then you've got your admin support.
So, you know, four or 500 people.
Um, so my first assignment down there was, uh, in that operational section.

(01:04:20):
So you know, you get, once you get down there, more training, right?
Because once you get to that division, it's like, okay, well, you know, you just did seven
years in Boston, but we're going to get you up to speed on how we do things down here.
So there's a lot of that, a lot of more, a lot more NDAs because there's a lot of things
at the White House that you can't talk about.
So you're, you're signing your life away.
Um, and then you go to work and generally speaking, um, you try to break the, the new

(01:04:44):
guys in slowly, uh, even though, you know, you're 30 something years old with a wife
and two kids, they still to kind of treat you like, you know, you're in first grade.
So they, they bring you along kind of slowly.
Um, my first, my first kind of foray, uh, into this whole thing's kind of funny is that,
uh, so we're working midnight, which is exactly how you want to kind of start as the new guy.

(01:05:08):
Cause like there's nobody around.
So you're midnight at the White House.
So you know, first of all, it's easy to get parking because there's nobody there, right?
So you can pull right on the ellipse and you can find a parking spot.
No problem.
You can love a lot easier than day tour or afternoons, um, and then when you come in,
there's nobody around like everybody's in bed.
So you can walk around and kind of get a feel for like, okay, like, you know, where is all

(01:05:30):
the bells and whistles here?
And um, Lincoln bedroom, all that.
Yeah, you can see all that.
So, um, so, you know, you, you report to a, your boss is a shift leader, they call him,
right?
So he's probably got, you know, I don't know, 25, 30 people he's responsible for.
And uh, so my shift leader at the time says, Hey, we're going to President Bush's ranch

(01:05:51):
next week.
Um, you know, let's, let's say that's a Monday this weekend.
Are you good to make the trip?
And we're working midnight at the ranch.
I mean, like he could have given me the keys to the ranch.
I would have given them back to him.
Like I have no interest in a ranch, but I'm like, yeah, dude, I'm in like with new guy,
like just attitude and availability.
Tell me what you need.
So I'm like, yeah, I'm in.
Yeah, sure.
The next day, the Pope dies.

(01:06:14):
John Paul II dies.
Our shift catches the trip cause the president's going to go from Rome to the ranch.
So yours truly my first trip.
I've been on the detail less than 90 days.
My first trip is on Air Force one to Rome, Vatican city to Rome.

(01:06:34):
Okay.
I was the press guy, which is usually where the junior guy is to make after Hinkley.
They always assigned somebody with the traveling press to make sure that like the integrity
of that group is maintained and nobody, nobody either gets in there or acts a little stupid.
Right.
So, so I'm with the press.
We land in Rome.
I mean, I'm taking all this in.
I'm on, I'm on the big jet now.

(01:06:54):
I'm like, holy cow.
You know, we land in Rome and we go, the motorcade makes it an off the record movement.
So unpublished stop at St. Peter's Basilica.
So the Pope, the Pope is laying in state.
So the only people allowed into the Basilica is the work and supervisor because it's super
secure.
Right.

(01:07:15):
We're inside the Vatican halls, the work and supervisor and the president who's me.
So like, I'm like, you know, unbelievable.
Like I'm basically standing there.
The popes where you are laying in state, President Bush, Mrs. Bush, President Clinton
and Condoleezza Rice are all kneeling, paying their respects and I'm standing with the press
going, look at this guy.
Look at this guy.

(01:07:35):
First trip out of town.
Look at me.
Yeah.
So it speaks to make sure you're available.
Right.
And the only reason I made that trip is I volunteered to work that midnight down in
Waco and everybody else was hiding under the desk.
I'm like, dude, I'll go.
I'll go.
Yeah.
Hey, how about this?
Like was that your first trip on Air Force One?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, it done me like me.

(01:07:56):
I just can't get this movie out of my head.
Like how unrealistic is that?
That's gonna be my question to you.
When you see a movie like Air Force One, you're like, get real.
Come on.
The movie with Harrison Ford.
Yeah.
I think the only, I think I haven't seen that movie in a long time, but the only thing that's
probably legit is, you know, there's weapons and ammunition on the plane.

(01:08:20):
Not that you're gonna get a shoot on the plane, but you've got weapons and ammunition on
the plane.
Most of it we bring on ourselves.
But like this idea that there's like a scapegoat.
How about that little vessel to like eject your...
No, no way.
No.
Okay.
No.
Sorry.
I had to get elementary there for a minute.
What it's really, really good for is being able to fly at a super high level, right?

(01:08:40):
Like so you can take a 47, 747, like especially something like a quip like that, you can take
that to places where other planes can't go.
And we saw that in 9-11.
One of the evasive procedures is I think they took that guy to like 40,000 feet.
Come on.
Is there another vessel that's like a reinforce for nuclear impact that the president...

(01:09:04):
Okay.
And then how about the helicopter?
What's it?
Marine one?
Yeah.
Have you been on that?
Yeah.
Listen, HMX is the group that flies for the Marine Corps, flies.
That used to be an Army assignment.
And little trivia here or a little known fact is that the Army had a crash off the coast,

(01:09:24):
I think, of Puerto Rico.
I can't remember who...
We may have lost somebody on that flight as an agency.
It was during, I think, the Nixon administration, but the Army had a crash in the water.
And while it was being investigated, they had the Marine Corps fly.
So the Marine Corps stepped in to take the duties while the investigation was ongoing.

(01:09:46):
And once the investigation was done, the Marine Corps never gave it up.
They never relinquished it.
They never relinquished it.
Like it was one of those things where Lloyd was like, nah, Marine Corps got it.
You guys go back to doing something else.
And that was it.
So the Marine Corps created a group, HMX-1.
They lift out of Anacostia at Air Naval Base over there in Virginia.
And I'm sorry, Maryland.
And yeah, super professional.

(01:10:09):
I've been up in tons of Helo lifts and I wouldn't go with anybody other than the Marines.
I mean, like these guys that jump on helicopters in Hawaii, you can have it, but I'll fly with
the Marine Corps anytime.
I mean, those guys are unbelievable.
Can you explain, like, your interaction with our presidents?
And just what you think of them as people and how politics is involved or not, like

(01:10:31):
your just interactions with the president.
Yeah.
So I'm sorry, which president was Bush and Obama?
Yeah.
So at the White House, I was with President Bush and President Obama.
President Bush for four years, President Obama just for a year.
And then I cycled out.
And then when I came up to New York, I actually did a hitch with President Clinton in Chappell

(01:10:54):
Quarver as a former.
And then, of course, I covered him in more of a support role when he was the president
of the United States, spent some summers on Moth's Vindia, that type of thing, which is
common, like the group that's in the field and not assigned to the division supports
the division when the president's in your district.
So I might be a little, I'm not different from the crew of guys that I'm close with,

(01:11:20):
but I may be different, right?
And how we look at it.
We may look at it differently, but never really got involved politically.
Like I could kill us.
To this day, politics is theater for me.
When I see any of these guys say anything, act any way, whatever, it's what I found is

(01:11:44):
it's much different than I see when they're away from the cameras, right?
So that's, and that's something I saw from kind of being behind the curtain, if you will.
And I found every last one of them, regardless of political affiliation, to just be a regular
guy trying to do an incredibly difficult job.
I really do.

(01:12:04):
And, you know, it probably speaks to why the difficulty of the job, it probably speaks
to why the only candidates that we ever get are like in their 70s and, you know, missing
some miles an hour off their fastball.
I mean, you know, and I listen, I think they would all agree with that if in a candid conversation

(01:12:26):
that like it's a young person's job.
And then when you all you have to do is take a look at how young President Obama looked
on inauguration day to the wear on him physically eight years later.
It was like Grady from San Francisco.
It's a tough job, man.
It is a difficult job.
No one brings you good news.
And there's something, there's something to that, right?

(01:12:48):
So, so you have a young family, you're doing this and you literally have to take a bullet
for this guy, the President, right?
Or so, so how do you, is that a, is that a, as being an American citizen, is that the
first thought in your mind or what, how do you, how do you go to work every day knowing
something bad could happen or that you have a duty?
Yeah.

(01:13:08):
I mean, I think, I think some of that stuff is like a little over dramatic, right?
Like so the thing that the secrets, two things that I think that the Secret Service really,
really good at.
The first thing is the advanced process.
And unlike the FBI, you know, the partnerships that the service develops with like local
and state law enforcement, people that will help us execute the strategy to keep the President

(01:13:31):
safe, those partnerships are like lifelong friendships kind of thing.
So, you know, when you can create, again, you know, with the help of state and local
law enforcement, when you can create a sterile or as close to sterile environment as you,
that you can get, once you get there, then all you have to do is start to manage the

(01:13:56):
prospects of a crisis, right?
So like, once you get your plan in place, then the only other questions that you have
to ask yourself is what are we doing if something goes south, right?
And that something goes south could be a medical emergency.
Are we buttoned up medically?
Like who's got the oxygen tank?
Who's got the first aid kit?
Where's the nearest hospital?
Have we checked the numbers to the nearest hospital, the emergency room?

(01:14:18):
Do we know that when we call the agent that we put there, we get the right number?
Do we have the good route there?
If it's a trip overnight where we might be making the movement in the dock, do we have
the route, you know, we used to put reflective stickers at certain waypoints on the route,
right?
Do we have those stickers in place so we know if the midnight guy is a little unsure, he's

(01:14:41):
just going to find the blue sticker with the silver thing around it and away we go.
He has the midnight guy run the hospital route with the drivers so that we know exactly where
to go.
So once you get your sterile environment, then so like the very last thought is, yeah, maybe
getting winged by some nut job who takes a shot at them.
Like you're really more focused on like kind of the everything else.
But listen, at the end of the day, the job is to put you yourself between whoever it

(01:15:08):
is you're protecting and the problem, whatever the problem is, right?
So like that is the foundational aspect of it.
But you rely on your brain much more than you do on the rest of it.
So every trip he takes is rehearsed.
Every small detail.
Every small detail.
Weeks in advance.
Yeah, every small detail.
And you know, that's amazing.

(01:15:28):
You're just talking about like if he has to go to a hospital, like the guy's taking the
practice run, even if it's a minimal, minimal possibility.
Yeah.
So your job is to be hyper vigilant.
Can you flip that switch off when you go home in your daily life?
I mean, it must be, it must just be hard to deliver.

(01:15:49):
I think you can.
I mean, listen, I don't know.
I had a fairly successful run.
I did two decades there and I had a fairly successful run and I will tell you that I think
it's, it would have been a lot more challenging if my wife wasn't as tough as she is.
I mean, she had no woman girl herself.

(01:16:09):
Because like, listen, you know, first of all, I don't think she got in the weeds about wearing
about my safety.
I think in her back or her head, she probably figured this knit.
We'll figure it out and he'll come home.
But I do think that like it's a drain when you got like two kids under the age of like
eight and your husband isn't like Afghanistan.
Like that gets a little old, you know, where I can't talk to her.

(01:16:30):
I can't call or I can't, you know, I can't, you know, I can't check in or I spent three
weeks in Israel or, you know, whatever it is.
And you know, I tell guys, my brother came on a job for a while and I used to tell him
this too.
I tell guys like, don't call home if you're having a good time.
Like, there we go.
We went, we just got a legendary story.

(01:16:50):
So we go, we're in China.
I think it was for the Olympics and we got a down day and we jump on a like a scheduled
tour of the Great Wall of China.
I'm not a big tourist, but it was pretty cool.
I bet you didn't have to wait in a line.
Yeah, no, they got to state the proper.
So we're there and a guy gets a cell phone signal.

(01:17:15):
One of the guys on the shift with us, he calls home.
Honey, you won't believe it.
You know, I'm on the top of the Great Wall of China.
She goes, oh, good.
I hope you're having a great time because little Bobby fell off the swing set.
I mean, the emergency room, they're putting pins in his arms and he, for the rest of the
trip, for the rest of the trip, dude, he was shot.
Like, shot.
Well, like, well, like Bob, listen, it happens, you know, but like, note to self, don't call
home with any goodness.

(01:17:36):
Like if anything, every time you come home, yeah, it's a grind over here.
Like this is really tough.
Like, you know, I'll see you in a couple of days, miss you.
Like don't, don't like, you know, yeah, exactly.
So sounds like the Plough boys.
I had two things that struck me on the conversation.
You said my father about a hundred times.
Yeah.
What did he mean to you?
How did he influence you?
You talked about never taking the dragon of marijuana.

(01:17:57):
Yeah.
Just how trying to club, man.
What influence did he have on you?
Hey, that's the first question.
And B, how did the sports, your sports participation growing up, playing to your secret service
job?
Yeah.
So I'll take the first, last one first.
So that the whole team concept, that's one of the things that like, I mean, listen, you
can make a lot of money other places, right?

(01:18:18):
Like you're a public servant.
Like you can, you can go and work at a hedge fund or you can go in the, in the, in the,
all power to the guys that did.
I went to school, guys who worked at Goldman Sachs and like, you know, retired when they
were 35.
Right.
But the team aspect, like the commonality of a goal that pervades throughout the secret
service was the drop for me, right?

(01:18:38):
Like whether you're in protection or you're in a small group, running the count of a squad
in New York City and you're going out to grab a guy, you know, on a warrant, like it's just
such a team focused thing that like that parallels all the athletic event type stuff
that we've all participated in, right?
Like, and especially like winning teams.

(01:18:59):
Like I don't have too many friends, you know, from losing teams for what, you know, it's
funny how that takes care of itself, but for winning teams.
So like you, you, there's a draw there.
And I think there's a commonality there.
And then like with my dad, like, you know, my dad was, you know, so his dad died when
he was, when he was young, like, I think he was like 11 or 12.

(01:19:19):
And then my, of course, my grandmother remarried.
And you know, he ended up growing up with his grandfather and all this other stuff.
So he raised his own family because he had like twin brothers, like I said, who was seven
years younger than him.
So he, and then he pivoted and raised us, right?
So, and I was the oldest and he and I spent a ton of time together.
So I would, I would tell you that like, you know, he had a significant influence on my

(01:19:45):
life and, and really everything I did, like any oldest son, you want to be like your dad
or whatever, but he was not a law enforcement guy.
So like really what he did is he was like, you know, when I told him I was interested
in this thing and then I started to really pursue it, he was just super supportive.
Like basically like, hey, tell me what I can do.
You know, like he didn't know anything about it.
I mean, really his, his brother Bruce, who had retired as a lieutenant and one of the

(01:20:09):
neighboring cities where I grew up, he was like a little bit more plugged in because
he, he had dealt with them on different, the secret service on different things.
And like he had a greater acquaintance with it.
So he was super helpful too.
Yeah, like my dad just kind of, you know, was like, tell me what you want to do.
I'll help you with it.
You know, he was the same thing.
Same way with my brother.
I mean, just like, yeah, like tell me what you want to do.

(01:20:29):
You know, my sister too, my sister was good athlete.
She played the college basketball year.
She got herself in a car accident and had to give it up.
But you know, he was just one of those dads that was all in, you know, I was telling,
I was telling Bobby not to, I know we got up, you guys got to probably talk about other
things, but we were talking about officiating, right?
And I do think that at some point having a segment on that would be pretty entertaining.

(01:20:50):
But my father had Calhoun at Braintree High School and had him at Northeastern.
And there's some stories there.
I bet there is.
Yeah, some stories there.
Yeah, some stories there with your father.
Still with us?
No, no.
He had melanoma about 13, 14 years ago.
Pretty bad.

(01:21:11):
So we've been great to bring him.
But with Jaws, we'll step in for him.
Yeah, of course.
The good news with Jaws is if you get, you have him on, you guys, you just go upstairs
and get a cup of coffee, so Hilda's talking to himself.
Just give him like one written question and tell him he's on the air and he'll be perfect.
That's our friend, a great Mike Hurston official from Shroudbog High School.
When did you get out and why?

(01:21:33):
I got out in 2015.
I was actually on my way back to the White House.
It was actually kind of a funny story.
So I got promoted again to go back to the White House.
And, you know, Bobby knows my daughter.
So he knows my son a little bit.
So my son is like your typical pleaser.
Like, you know, like I was probably when I was his age.

(01:21:54):
Like I'll do whatever, Dad.
Like, I'm in.
Like, where we going?
We moved out.
Alaska?
I'm good.
I'm good with you.
My daughter stood up in the canoe.
She's like, I'm not going.
You know?
So I had a split house on whether or not we were going back to D.C. and I had another
opportunity.
So I just took it, just pulled the pin.
I didn't want to be away from them anymore.
I didn't want to do the sleep on the couch thing.
Where were you living at the time?

(01:22:14):
In Washington.
So how did you get from Washington, D.C. to Washington, Connecticut?
So that's a good question.
So my wife's little sister marries a guy from up here.
Thomas, the guy?
Yeah.
And Kevin LeMay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we spent a lot of time visiting them.
Right?

(01:22:35):
Like we would.
Kevin LeMay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Kevin married, married a sister Sharon.
Wow.
That's, wow.
Like I put it like, I worked.
He actually, I started working out when I was in high school.
He was one of the guys that skitters Jim and Thomas and was this little thing that helped
me.
Yeah.
Like I love the guys.

(01:22:56):
Yeah.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
So, you know, we used to vacation with them.
We, you know, we would come, we would either go to Maine or we would go to Aruba for family
trips, whatever it was.
We would, we would, you know, if we had, if I had some downtime, we would leave Virginia
for the kids in the back of the truck.
We would drive to Sharon and Kevin's in Washington.
So, you know, like, like things go, went to many beers in the girls economy down in Aruba

(01:23:19):
and they're like, Hey, what do you think about us all living together?
And I'm like, All right, I'm in, you know, so I got assigned up here and the plan, the
plan was to get assigned in New Haven, but they didn't have any billets there.
So I took a hitch in Brooklyn, assuming that as soon as there was an opening in New Haven,
I'd go and then I got promoted in Brooklyn.
So now I can't go because there's only one boss in New Haven.

(01:23:40):
He's there.
So I ended up working out of Brooklyn, but it all worked out.
It was great.
Yeah.
So yeah, funny.
And you found yourself, I mean, in my high school days, I would have never admitted it,
but you found yourself in quite a Norman Rockwell like community and you're probably, I would
assume happy with the quality of the guys that we know from there.
It's just great guys, man.
People are tremendous.

(01:24:00):
And it's a different place.
It is.
It is a different, you know, and of course when I was, even now, because I travel a ton,
like you feel like you're on vacation every time you come home, right?
I mean, I got four acres.
I never had four acres in my life.
I don't know what to do with it.
You know, my dogs love it.
They run around chase each other, but like, you know, that's a, that's a pretty big swath
of land.
And, and, you know, so it's, it's different, right?

(01:24:21):
Especially when I was working in Brooklyn, like you'd be out, you know, grabbing your
coffee in the bodega and doing your thing.
And then you, you know, once you get home, you're like, nirvana.
I'm home.
Yeah.
You know, so.
That's amazing.
Mike, thanks for all that.
Thanks for your service too.
Yeah.
We're going to have you back with Jaws because I know there's some, some stories I want to
hear about like things getting ramped up once in a while.

(01:24:44):
We're going to pivot to sports a little bit.
We always have some Yankee stuff.
This will be less than two minutes.
We getting snail guys or what?
Like I'm sick of reading about it.
It's not going to happen.
Do you want to, do we want to win?
Yeah.
I'm just in winning.
I want them.
Yeah.
Do you care like about the rebuild the socks got to go through here?
Or do you think there is a massive rebuild?

(01:25:05):
Listen, you've seen it.
The bread socks are going through it.
The Patriots are going through it.
I mean, it's, I get the business part of it.
Like these owners can't continue.
I mean, there's a profit margin that has to happen, right?
So you got to take a year or two off.
Unfortunately, it just cost that entire Patriot coaching staff their jobs.
But at the end of the day, it's, it's, it's, there's a profit issue there, right?

(01:25:26):
So if you're running a business, your P and L statement matters.
And yes, you can buy championships nowadays and we're seeing it with the Red Sox too.
I mean, I'm John Henry's no dummy.
He wants to make money.
But now once the fan base gets rowdy enough and they start turning off the TVs and you
see TV contracts not being as valuable as they were when you're winning, then you start
to buy better groceries as you said earlier.

(01:25:46):
What about Verdugo?
Do you care?
No, I don't care.
He's a bum, right?
No, I don't know if I call him a bum, but like we've,
How about the shave for Dugo is going to be a bum?
Possibly.
But the Yankees and the Red Sox have traded players.
Yeah.
All the time, right?
Like we, you know, Euclis, Johnny Damon, I mean, you name it.
Don Baylor.
Yeah, Donny Baylor.
Verdugo is not going to be a bum.
I don't think he's going to be a bum.
Is he going to start?

(01:26:07):
Yeah.
That little, that little bambox down there right now.
I think that is, here we go.
That's why I like to like Grisham though.
I think Grisham's a piece.
Nobody's, they won't play him.
He's a fourth piece out there.
All right.
So, um, Yanks, they report pictures and catchers on February 15th, the rest of the squad in
the 20th, Big G, Judgy and Lumeju and Rizzo have been out in the town.

(01:26:31):
Nestor's taking them around town, hitting some party spots before we go south.
Now I'm frustrated with the Dodgers.
Everybody reports on a 15th.
It looks like maybe a few on the 14th.
You know when the Dodgers are going?
The ninth.
They're going five days before everybody else.
So like, I kind of like that because I got pissed about the money they're throwing around.

(01:26:54):
But as Angry J said, they must have it then.
But it looks like they want to get to work.
You know, I mean, like, so they're not just catching their chips before, you know, beforehand,
I think they're willing to put the time in and put this new team together.
They got Mookie.
So there's a salt of the earth piece.
Oh, Tani's going to hit what?

(01:27:15):
80?
80 dingers this year?
He's not hitting 80.
You guys are down on the dodge.
I mean, we're going to meet up in October.
It's not easy to win a World Series with all the tears you've got to go through and everything.
So yeah, money's going to buy him 95 to 100 wins, but we know better than anybody.
To regular season.
Winning a ring is really hard.

(01:27:37):
They're going a week before everybody else.
Yeah, that's not going to help them in October.
All right.
Coach, what they, what they do in regular seasons means nothing.
They'll be judged.
They're a one World Series since 1981.
Who cares?
Big basketball Sunday.
Basketball's getting ramped up.
High school, college.

(01:27:58):
School is not so much.
We've got an all star game coming up, but Yukon today.
Xavier, is that who we got in the house?
Yep.
At Gample, I think the charter rope might be back in the lineup.
Is he in the lineup?
He's going to get more minutes.
They said he's not going to start.
I don't know if he's going to start, but he's going to get more than the 19 minutes.
You got to start the oak.
And the 2004 teams back today.

(01:28:19):
Oh, are they?
Yes, for the anniversary.
Xavier has new Haven's own Desmond Claude.
Oh, get out.
Xavier's dad a couple of weeks ago.
Great guy.
Is 04 Gordon?
Yeah.
He ain't going to be there.
He's not going to know Gordon.
My name is Coach Donnie over here.
I scored him in a hard time.
Hurley said that team is sitting behind the bench except for Taleek Brown.

(01:28:40):
He said he's sitting all the way up top because he's a St. John's assistant now.
That's Yukon drivel now.
If you haven't noticed.
St. John's?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it's going to be two going forward.
I could see those two hating each other.
Um, Rutgers tall task today, they're getting 10 against a great Purdue team.

(01:29:03):
And they always do, but something weird always happens.
Palmquist like makes threes or Moab Mag has his career high or whatever.
First start ever, whatever happened.
Both of those things better happen then.
Yeah.
They got to start winning some games.
They're, yeah, but it comes seven foot five.
I know the big 10 hasn't had success in a tournament, but like you tend, well, I tend

(01:29:27):
to watch a lot of the games on the network and like, where are these guys coming from
these six foot six shooter guys, uh, these farm country looking dudes that just stroke
it the back door cuts.
I mean, Iowa, I hate the coach.
He's annoying, but they don't run great offense.
I don't know who does.
You know what I mean?
With the back door and the three and I mean, they pass guys open.

(01:29:51):
It's about Northwestern.
They're kind of fun to watch too.
I know, but boo boo.
He's been there for what eight years.
Come on, man.
All right.
Did who did they just be?
Are they?
They pound.
Did they pound Nebraska too?
They pounded Ohio State last night, but they just came off a win against Illinois.
Hey, a lot of you asked you this.
You follow Indiana much anymore.
They, they, when did they come?

(01:30:12):
Yeah, they're kind of got a little.
They're like they're getting technical fouls.
Yeah, he's definitely seems like to me that he's lost the ship.
I don't know if he ever had it.
I don't know if he was the right hire at the time, but the nut shot against Rutgers.
You see that guy?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
It's the same guy.
No, it's the same guy.
Xavier Johnson, Xavier Johnson.
Same guy.

(01:30:32):
What a punk dude.
Yep.
It was an league.
We'd have to investigate.
This would be Woodson's last year.
I would think he's done.
All right.
You guys don't care about you kind of Rutgers.
You cons on the up Rutgers trying to hang out for dear life.
They're going to need a conference tournament run, but have you watched anybody else?
Like, like I watch less and less college hoops now.
My favorite sport because I just don't have the time, but this kid, Jeff Shepherd's kid

(01:30:57):
is fun.
Yeah.
He's fun.
Is he an NBA player or is he?
I looked at a mock draft.
I got him going like 18 to 20 somewhere in there.
Really?
Yeah.
He's better.
His father, right?
Yeah.
Jeff Shepherd was super athletic.
Remember him?
Number 15.
Yeah.
He's got a lot of interest in Reeves to be a starter on the Los Angeles Lakers.
I mean, this kid's tough.

(01:31:18):
How tall is he?
Maybe like 6'3", 6'4".
Zach Eadie, 7'5".
Will he be an NBA factor?
No.
You got to be able to guard somebody.
G-League.
Or is he going right overseas?
He'll get drafted and stuff.
I'm sure and someone will take a chance on him, but he's going to wander around.
You got to be able to guard somebody.
You got to be able to guard.
Yeah.
You got to transition.
He's got to be able to get back.
He's got to be able to shoot the ball outside, you know, 18 feet.

(01:31:40):
It's just a different game.
Quick and 30.
30 years ago, maybe.
Maybe a nugget on the greatness of the athletes in the league.
Shae, SGA getting a start over.
Steph Curry in the West.
What do you think about that?
I don't know.
I mean, I know it doesn't matter.
I'm just saying, has the guard changed?
Well, come Brunson doesn't get a start.
Stop it with the Knicks.

(01:32:00):
Nobody wants to hear it.
Your season's over.
The guy got hurt.
I'm a little tired.
Like, he's a really good player.
I'm a little tired.
SGA?
Yeah.
Like, I like him a lot.
I mean, I would take Anthony average over him or something like that, but the recency
bias to go.
I mean, I think a couple of great games.
And they're saying like, he's a top five player already.
Like he's better than Jason Tatum.
In the league?
Yeah.
They were talking on that stupid show there with Steve and I.

(01:32:22):
Can't watch that stuff anymore.
Can't watch that boys anymore.
I was like 30 seconds of it in there.
Like he's top five.
He's better than Tatum.
I'm like, nah, nah, nah.
I don't think so.
Like, nah, like don't like, so Jason Tatum, Jason Tatum gets killed for not winning a title
so far.
Now it's, you know, like he's got to win a title.
I mean, what has SGA done?
You know, like, how about him or Marant?
Gun to your head, not to bring in guns, but like, him or Marant, gun to your head.

(01:32:45):
SGA.
I would take SGA because he's a better person.
Like, like, there's, yeah, I don't want to deal with that.
I told you that guys that before.
Is Edwards a scary athlete?
I would take Edwards over.
Yeah.
That was one of the, who was your brothers?
I asked you guys and you all took SGA.
Not me though.
Edwards?
Yeah.
How about the clippers?
Highlights are pretty fun to watch.
How about the clippers are figuring it out?

(01:33:06):
And now I hate it.
I hate that they figure anything out.
They tattooed Boston.
Yep.
You see the Lakers?
I mean, that's just, that's a TV thing.
It's almost like it's, you know, fixed or set.
I mean, LeBron and Steph and like 14 over times.
I mean, come on, man.
I didn't know it was that last night.
It was like at least three.
145 to 144, something crazy like that.

(01:33:27):
Steph had close to 50.
You had 40 something.
LeBron had 20 rebounds and 16 assists, something crazy like that.
You see Luca the other night?
Yeah.
Took a lot of shots, but.
A&M beat.
All these guys.
Did Kat get over 72?
No, he didn't get over 74.
Oh, so you didn't get over 70?
Did you see the interview with the coach afterwards?
No, he wasn't thrilled.
It was awesome.
It was great.

(01:33:47):
He had 64.
He had 44 half time and they knew and beat had hit 70 already.
And so they said they were just hunting shots for him and he finished with 62.
They actually took him out of the game, I think.
He took him out.
Yeah, he took him out, but he put him back in, but he, the coach afterwards said like,
we're immature.
We're like, we're ridiculously immature.
And we got a long way.
Like the first in a Western conference, he's like, we were worried about a guy.

(01:34:10):
It's going over 70.
He said a winning the game.
We were taking badge.
Like it was pretty cool.
Like, you don't guys don't say that anymore, you know?
No, I'm not NBA level.
No.
Too bad.
They're so good too.
It's just too bad.
Um, enough of that.
Angry J.
Yeah.
We have a special segment right now sponsored by Capital Securities and Joe Morello.

(01:34:32):
Life well planned.
Um, coach Mike, you're in on this one.
What do we got?
We're going to put you rather.
Yep.
All right.
I got like a half a dozen football and we're going to throw in some boxing too.
You guys good with that?
Yeah.
Brockton, brother, I'll take him over everybody.
There's a couple NBA too.
I'll do that.
But, um, we'll, we'll start with NFL tight ends.

(01:34:54):
We going Shannon Sharp or Antonio Gates.
And we'll start with our guest.
We're going with you.
You got Shannon, Shannon shop.
Mac Ozzie Newsom.
It's not, it's not the question.
I'll take Gates.
Fantasy stud.
Ken State.
I'll go Shannon Sharp.
I'll go rings.
I'll go the rings.

(01:35:16):
You going sharp.
Yeah.
I'm going Antonio Gates cause he was kind of, he's a, he was a basketball guy.
I liked him.
For the golden flashes at Ken State, right?
Yeah.
I'll, I'll say this.
I'll give you the, I just talked about recency bias.
I can't take Shannon Sharp on TV.
So he gets a Nick, Nick's for me.
All right.
Lottie, we're going reverse order now.
Okay.
We're going to a tagline of Biola.
I'll very serious last day more Brock.

(01:35:38):
Pretty easy.
I'll go Brock.
Pretty all day.
Pretty.
No doubt.
I'm going to go to a, I think pretty's a system guy.
I'm going to agree with him.
I'm going to go with to also to a what?
No.
All right.
Mike, back to you.
Guess Mike, Drew Brees, Steve Young, Steve Young,

(01:36:04):
Greenwich, Connecticut, Steve Young.
I concur.
Yeah.
It's not even close for me.
Really?
Steve Young.
Yeah.
Really?
All right.
I'm going Steve Young too.
I thought for some reason I would be the guy only taking them.
All right.
Angry J.
What do you got for this reason alone?
He's my guy.
Fantasy.
I had him in a touchdown only.
He threw a pass from like the two.

(01:36:24):
It was tipped.
He caught it and ran in.
He got the 10th pointer on his own.
Let's go.
Greenwich.
Good enough.
All right.
Lottie, Marshall Falk, Barry Sander.
Barry.
Not a layup for me though.
I'll say Barry as well.
I go Falk all day because of the dynamic thing he brings with catching the ball.

(01:36:52):
A highlight video.
I'm watching Barry for hours.
On my football team, I want Falk.
That's a hard one.
I would say Falk too because in today's game he's multi-purpose.
You can do all kinds of stuff with him.
You can put him in the slot.
You create so many mismatches for the defense.
I'd say Falk too.
I would go with you two guys.

(01:37:12):
I would take Falk too in today's NFL because of the exact same thing.
He's Christian McCaffrey.
Right?
Right.
All right.
Lottie.
Terrell Suggs.
Dwight Franey.
We're going past.
Good one.
I'll go with the kid from Bloomfield.
Dwight.
Okay.
Same.
Dwight Franey.

(01:37:33):
That's tough.
Kind of like Suggs.
Yeah.
I'm going to go with Franey.
I watched him wear ourself for years.
So I'll go with Franey.
I'll go with Franey too.
Just because he's a Connecticut guy.
Last football one.
Priest Holmes.
Clinton Portis.
Clinton Portis played for you.
Yes.

(01:37:53):
He did.
I'll go Clinton Portis.
That's how we decide.
That's it.
I think Priest had a better run of it.
No pun intended there.
But I got to go Priest.
He was tough.
I would agree for the short amount of time he was.
He put up crazy numbers.
But Portis just on longevity I think for me.

(01:38:14):
He wears weird outfit.
Did Portis play with you?
He played with you.
I'll take Priest.
The commish.
That's good.
I'll go Priest Holmes.
All right.
Two quick NBA ones before we get the boxing.
Lottie, Russell Westbrook, Derek Rose.
You know I love Westbrook because every time we do these I go Westbrook.
I knew you were going to say that.

(01:38:37):
Really?
A never hurt Rose?
Yes.
Rose.
That's you can't overlook it though.
Rose.
I don't think you can qualify it right?
Yeah.
You know, I got to go with Russell.
Healthy Rose.
Russell.
I'm going to go with Rose too just to be different.
Rose for one year if they're both healthy without question.

(01:38:59):
This one is easy.
I think the same guy took SATs for you and Rose.
This one was easy for me but Carl Malone, Kevin Garnett.
Oh we know it was easy for you.
Yeah I'm going to go Kevin Garnett.
Well these are Homer picks though.
I mean one of the best scorers of all time.

(01:39:20):
Carl Malone.
All right.
I love KG.
I'll go Garnett.
Garnett for me.
Just two-way player.
The male man.
I'm going Garnett too.
Guy delivered male.
Besides Bird he's probably my second favorite Celtic and the leader of the S-book.
I think he's one of the best leaders ever in professional sports.
Angry J.
Not to interrupt you but Kling Kong is starting.

(01:39:42):
He's starting?
Let's go.
All right.
We got like half a dozen boxing ones real quick.
Lottie starting with you.
Sugar Ray Lundard.
Marvin Hagler.
I'll go to Brawler.
With our esteemed guests in the studio I'm going to have to go with Hagler.
Sugar Ray was my Franklin.
He was my Franklin shoes man.

(01:40:02):
He was my idol.
I loved him.
I'm sorry for that.
Marvin Hagler.
I'm going Sugar Ray also because he beat Hagler, Hernds and Durand when he was the
fighter too.
There's no doubt about it there he did.
All right.
So speaking of that.
Roberto Durand Thomas Hernds.
Great fight.
Roberto Durand.

(01:40:24):
I got to go with no mos too just because Hernds quit one time.
I agree with Durand.
I'll say Durand.
Didn't he have like 200 career fights Durand?
Yeah.
Crazy numbers.
Yeah.
Animal.
Yeah.
He fought like every two months.
We're all going Durand.
Hernds actually beat Durand but he was at the end of his career.

(01:40:44):
Like he almost killed him with a right hand but I did remember reading a book and when
Durand was younger before he fought Leonard the first time the old boxing guys used to
talk about like how they were in awe of Durand the way he fought.
Like he was just like on your chest throwing bombs like and he never got tired.
That's for King's documentaries.

(01:41:05):
It's unbelievable.
If you haven't watched it, you're a listener.
Download that and watch it on the next one.
Unreal.
What is it?
Netflix?
Yeah.
It's really good.
They all but they talk about it.
It's terrific.
We'll start with you to probably lay it for you now.
Mickey Ward, Arturo Gotti.
Okay.
So let me, so it's Mickey Ward but let me tell you something.

(01:41:25):
Go ahead.
Yeah.
So as a kid I boxed.
So I used to box in the Summable Boxing Club and Ward would come down.
So every club had a pro.
So our pro was this guy, Johnny Refuse, truck driver by day and he'd fight at night.
I don't know what Johnny's record was but he was grinding.
So Mickey would come down every Saturday and they'd fight in the gym like just work out.

(01:41:50):
So like you'd rush in there on a Saturday, you'd work out yourself and then you'd throw
your hoodie back on and get caught sight and watch and just Mickey and his brother.
So Dicky was there too.
And like as a young guy looking like you, Mickey Ward, they played him perfectly in
that movie.
It was a great movie.
A complete gentleman, quiet whatever and then his brother was Cuckooville like just crazy,

(01:42:11):
crazy.
Yeah, so Mickey all day long, I just saw it to the earth guy.
I'll go with you on that.
Yeah.
Love that movie by the way.
I love that movie.
I love that.
So where you going with?
Matt, what are you going with?
Man, do I love those fights?
Do you remember the first fight I called you at your house and your dad answered and I
was like, are you guys watching this fight?

(01:42:31):
Like it was like the third or fourth round and you guys turned and like you had to turn
on or whatever.
Yeah.
My dad loved boxing.
Yeah.
Just with the Irish aspect.
I'm going with Mickey.
I gotta go with Mickey.
I'll go with Mickey as well.
I love Mickey word.
You guys are all going.
I'll go with Gotti just to be different because you beat him twice.
Yeah.
All right.
Don't don't hold it against me.

(01:42:53):
Larry Holmes or Vander Holyfield?
Mitch Green.
Not an option in this one.
I'm going to go Larry Holmes.
All right.
I'm going to go Holmes.
I'm going to go.
I saw Vander fight the John Ruiz at the casino.
Did you?
Yeah.
Were you working or just watching?

(01:43:13):
Yeah.
I was sitting next to the Columbus at the globe.
Not showing us the other guy.
Bob Ryan?
Bob Ryan.
Right next to him was one of the thrills of my life watching a fight with him.
So I'm going to go with Holyfield.
That's a good one though, Jack.
I gotta say Larry Holmes.
I mean, did you see him run over that car?
He jumped over a car.

(01:43:33):
He did like a car before like Griffin did.
Was that with a Mitch Green?
That's why you're paying.
That's why you're paying her too.
That's the guy that went to New York field office.
Jerry Cooney, remember that fight in the early days against Cooney?
He beat Muhammad, right?
Larry?
Yes.
I mean an old Mahal.
That was his idol.
He almost didn't want to punch him.
Yeah.

(01:43:54):
If you remember that.
It's a Vanda for me.
I think his ability to jump weight classes and just be as competitive and stay as competitive
as he did in multiple weight classes.
Yeah.
He went from cruiser weight to lightweight to heavyweight.
I agree with you there.
It's pretty more we got.
Floyd Mayweather, who the RCs are, Chavez.
Lottie, you're starting us off.

(01:44:16):
Chavez.
Mayweather hasn't lost.
I know.
It's just personal preference.
Yeah.
I'm going to take Mayweather just because he's the wins, but I'd rather watch Chavez.
Yeah.
Now, a quote from Young Guns.
Chavez.
Chavez is easily the best Mexican fighter ever.

(01:44:36):
I think.
But I'd go with Floyd.
I mean, Floyd was unstoppable.
Yeah.
He hasn't lost.
I'm going to.
He is.
I'm biased.
I'll just go with the old school brother.
I'll go with Chavez too.
It's hard to beat.
Mayweather hasn't lost a fight ever.
So we're taking guys over him.
All right.
Two hypotheticals.
We're starting with you.
Drago or Apollo Creed?
A prime Apollo Creed.

(01:44:57):
Apollo Creed every day of the week.
Not washed up Apollo Creed.
USA.
The master of disaster.
Yeah.
Man with the nicknames.
He wins on the nicknames alone.
The other guy was a bum.
Yeah.
He's a bum.
I mean.
I must break you.
But I'm going to say based on our again with our guest in here today, the USA shorts,

(01:45:18):
I got to go with Apollo Creed.
Absolutely.
The eagle.
Absolutely.
We're all going to American.
Apollo Creed.
And the last one, the Southside brawler, Clubber Lang, or are you going Tommy Gunn?
The machine.
I just want to say something before you, is that an easy answer for you guys.
Clubber Lang, like he won the title, but he never won in our fight.

(01:45:38):
And the same thing with Tommy Gunn.
At least he fought Rocky in the street again.
You know?
Trying to sway us.
I got hot some to sing because people are just going to say, well, Clubber was a better
fighter, but was he really?
Yeah.
Mr. T was a better fighter.
Yeah.
Clubber was Mike Tyson.
Clubber with that left hand, the right hand on his chest.
Class jaw.
Two of these times.
Tommy Gunn was taking, he was taking left hooks and getting bounced off of cars.

(01:46:00):
And a garbage can.
That's right.
That's right.
I'm a Tommy Gunn.
Pain.
You got to come up with one.
Yeah.
It's got to be, it's got to be Clubber Lang for me.
You guys, I'm telling you, Tommy Gunn is underrated because Clubber won the title and he got fat
and he's like, come on.
All right.
Jay, those were great Hootje Rathers.
So real quick today's AFC NFC day.

(01:46:20):
We're going to round it out with this Chiefs Ravens.
Surprisingly, it's the first game.
I think I thought it was an obvious nightcap.
Ravens given four and a half.
I don't care about the spread.
Who wins this game?
I'll go over Ravens just because they're at home.
I like the Chiefs.
Steve Spagnall, you give him a week to get ready for you.
He's as good as it gets.

(01:46:41):
I think, I think the Chiefs pull it out today.
I'm with you.
I have a tough time.
Room for both teams.
Obviously it's the old Browns.
I'm worn out with the KC stuff, but my home is finds a way, I think.
Me too.
It's hard to doubt them, you know?
I'm doubting them today.
So the prime time game is a really cool game.

(01:47:04):
The Lions, who looked like, you know, maybe people might want to jump on them as like
an America's team sort of thing, and then they struggle a little bit.
Love golf.
Love golf because he was given up on when the Rams did the Dodger thing and bought a
Super Bowl.
But look at him.
He's standing now with some weapons around him.
Who wins this game?

(01:47:25):
Niners favored by a Tutty.
Mike?
I like Detroit.
Sam LaPorte is going to have a huge game.
He's going to wear them out.
Look for that tight end to have eight or nine catches today.
I love it.
Definitely going with my heart in Detroit.
That city deserves a winner.
I want Detroit to win.
Unfortunately, they're not going to win.
He goes Niners.

(01:47:45):
That's the same thing.
I mean, as an Eagle fan, I hate 49ers because they run their mouths, but I think they're
the best team in football.
All right.
I'm going to pick the Lions for this reason.
I want to see the Chiefs in Lions.
I want Eminem and Taylor Swift to be in the stands, and it would be way better than Usher
as the halftime.
And, by the way, if they kicked Usher out and had Eminem and Taylor Swift, not to be

(01:48:06):
that guy, but I love both.
Are you a Swifty?
Absolutely.
Are you?
Do you make bracelets or no?
Could you judge me if I did?
I won't judge you.
I got a judge my friend.
A judge my friend.
A judge my friend.
If this had enough of her, I'm like, then don't watch.

(01:48:27):
I don't watch you.
I've had enough of you years ago.
I don't watch you.
I don't think it's news that you argue with Mad Dog.
The hell out of here, dude.
Swifty, Eminem, to the soup.
Lottie.
I already said I want to try.
Kamish.
I already said they're not going to win.
We're picking between.
Are you saying one of these is going to win a Super Bowl?

(01:48:48):
How about that, who would you rather?
Eminem or Swifty?
You get to go front row for either one.
Who you got?
Eminem.
He's unbelievable.
Yeah, I'll go with the Detroit guy. Well, you got I couldn't name a song a swiftly song right a die with M&M
Oh, let's go Mike. Thank you so much. You're coming back. I hope you had a good time
You're coming back with Jaws. Yeah, there's a lot more to talk about go Yanks go cowboys

(01:49:09):
Go Yanks. Go Husties. Go rut today. Rut with the upset. Thanks guys. Great job.

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