The Truth About Steroids, Weight Loss, and Seed Oils

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
What's up everyone? It's another episode of the
Progressive Podcast. You have me here, Mr. Max here.
We have some guest Co host here,Louise and then my roommate
Alex. Louise has been here on a couple
times. We were actually just talking
about your guys's health, fitness stuff.
This is where I don't really know much about.
So you guys were talking about apretty famous what is he a
bodybuilder? He is actually a bodybuilder.

(00:29):
Anyone who's actually one? That was the Arnold Classic.
Yeah. Pro card.
Oh, he's he's going to the Arnold Classic.
Or did he already compete? I was.
Like, I don't remember, like theamateur one.
I was going to say because I sawhim post about, I remember
hearing he was on prep and I waslike, holy shit, dude.
Like I he did. I mean, obviously a bunch of
bull can cut cycles and was on fucking gear and that's why he
got so big. He couldn't fucking breathe.
But like, and he went up there. I was like, shit, dude.

(00:50):
Like this guy's, this guy's the real fucking deal.
Like I there was no secret Sounds so like, so he, he, he
popped up because he's just a freak of nature.
He's huge and he's such a chill guy, but like, and he's smart
too. Like he's really, he's clever.
He knows his shit, he trains hard and like he's just kind of
a really humble, down to earth guy, seemingly like I, you know,
like I don't know him personally, but it seems to me
like he's a very humble and justlike wants to mind his own

(01:13):
business kind of guy. Yeah, and I think it was also,
he blew it into the scene because he was huge and he was
like lifting insane amount, insane amounts of weight.
Oh yeah, he's he also. He, he used to, he started doing
this like long form video where he it's just like him speaking
to the camera for like an hour every day, like the car ride

(01:34):
stuff and then like the long gymsessions and like the long
breakdown. So I feel like.
This is so nice. Yeah, yeah.
That's a yeah, that's a wow. Thing it's like.
It's like an older yeah, that might have been like a year ago.
He's just he's a monster, like Imean, I just I there is no way
around it. He is a monster and he
definitely has a career and that's like obviously the fact
that he won like in his debut and it won his pro card.
It's like you can look at his structure and you compare him to

(01:56):
like some of the greats, right? He is comparable to Bumstead.
I really believe like at at thatsame age, you know, yes,
Bumstead may have been a little bigger, a little wider,
whatever, because he's taller, but so like his dense, right?
His quads are fantastic. His definition is great and he's
dedicated and he wants it like he has the drive to do it.
And it's one of those things where like with bodybuilding, a
lot of it comes out to rolling the dice right, getting lucky

(02:17):
with good genetics or being a hyper responder to gear.
And he has it. So if he wants it like it, it's
his field to dominate. And I don't know if you would
ever be like a Bumstead competitor or up there with him,
right. I, I can't tell you that.
I can't tell you if you'd be up with the the greats, but like I,
I think if he wants it and keepsat it, he's definitely has a
future in it. So.
So I kind of have a question foryou, Max, because you've

(02:39):
actively competed and stuff. So I know like, you know, most
of the time we're looking at like these elite level
competitors. Like for example, this past
year, Samsung Dauda 63 recently won the Mr. Olympia.
For that it was Derek Lunsford and the year before that was
Pawnee. No, not Howdy Rinbaugh.
Who? Who did he coach?

(02:59):
Howdy trip man, Sorry. Oh, the the, the Persian guy.
Yeah, yeah. So recently, the Arnold Classic
happened with all the big guys and Samson lost to Derek again.
So my question to you is basically like, how at that
elite level, are they, like, discerning between the levels of
detail between each competitor? Because when I see them get up
on there and they do the same poses and they're doing these

(03:20):
very similar routines, I'm not able to tell with my blind eye.
But these judges, they're able to pick apart these physiques
and I'm not sure exactly how they're doing it.
Well, and that's a good question, Like I'm glad you
asked that. It's one of those things at the
pro level where it's very different than natural.
And it's hard because again, there is a level of subjectivity
that goes into it where judges have their own bias, right?

(03:40):
They have things that they want to look for and they do their
best to be impartial. I was especially at that level.
But for the most part, at the highest levels of it, I think a
lot of it comes down to detail. And so when we say detail, we
kind of mean how carved or how lean are you and how big is the
musculature. So, for example, Blake, you
pulled a picture of Mr. Olympia really quick and we'll talk
about it. It comes down to definition,

(04:01):
size, shape, structure, specificposing.
And again, there's some guys I know in Santa Barbara.
If you ever take a look at him, I want to say his name is Chris
Barnett. He's a great posing coach.
And a lot of these things come down to, yeah, like this is a
good example. So when you look at this one,
right, that's bumps dead, everybody knows who he is.
When we say looking for structure, right, we're looking
for the general shape. So take a look at how he's

(04:21):
posing where the make sure I getthis right at the the right
chest is squeezed together. You can see the fibers running
along. You can obviously see like the
chest fibers and it's it's round, it's it's pumped up, it's
bulbulus like it has that chest look that they're looking for.
You look at the shoulders. You see the striations that
little like stripes at the top that tells you how lean he is.
Obviously you see the the vascularity too, popping through

(04:42):
his arms. You can see how like, not to say
puffy, but that's kind of what we're looking for, what they
look like, right? Like he, he kind of looks like a
like a piece of beef jerky, right?
And so you look for the strike. No, I mean, he does like you
have the striations, the actual muscular tissue.
And so if you take a look aroundhim, right, you see striations,
you see fibers, you actually seethe individual musculature kind
of like a like a pic and anatomypicture, right?

(05:03):
When you look at like the structure of a person, right?
The little pictures worth the red meat and that shows the
bones and all that. That's really what we're looking
for. And when we say structure, we're
talking about like chest and shoulders in relation to the
waist. And when you take a look at how
he's posing in particular, right, posing comes into this
where you have to learn the angles to hit.
And so with this one, he's meantto be showing off his calves,

(05:24):
his quads, his glues, but also the upper body.
So notice how he's like twistinghis lower body a little bit.
So he has the back leg kind of tilted away, the front leg, his
heel is up, he's flexing his calf, his quad, his hamstring,
the adductors, the glutes, all of its tensed up.
But he's also twisting his waistaway a little bit, bringing his
right arm down and squeezing that tricep like that in order
to maximally show how big his left arm, the left arm,

(05:48):
shoulders, and then of course, squeezing that chest on top of
it. So you can see his chest, his
shoulders, his arms, legs. And that's what we mean by
structure, right? The whole overall of the
physique, the posing, it comes down to a lot of that.
So if you have bad posing, you're not going to show off
your physique as well. And there's a lot of little
things like that that go into it.
And we say, like density, right?Like how thick is the muscle
tissue? How dry is it?

(06:09):
How whatever, right. Everybody has a different look.
So Blake, could you go to one where it's like all the
different guys? Yeah, like that's a good one.
So I'm pretty sure this one is, is when at the very end, they
let the guys flex how they want.This is a better example if you
want to go back to that other one actually play that'll be
better. So this is when they hit front
double by right. And so when we say structure,
right, take a look at the guy inthe middle where his arms are

(06:31):
like dense, they're huge. He has forearms, they look huge.
His chest and his back are wide that you see the gills and his
back shoots out like that with his waist tiny and the ABS are
cut down. When we talk about something
like that like this is the reason why he's in center stage
because he's pretty clearly the best, right?
He has the best knee taper, his waist tiniest.
His legs and his stands are justinsanely wide.
His quads look great. I would even argue that the guys

(06:54):
to the left to the right of him have better quads, but that's
just my opinion. But that structure right, the
way he's flaring his lats out toshow his waist and bring his
arms up like that, it's that's the structure, right?
If we were to take a marker and draw it right, you would draw
around his arms and then draw his lats curving down and then
cut to the waist, which is like a insane V And that's a lot of
that goes into that. So structure density, like

(07:17):
leanness and like, I, I can't prove this one for certain, so
don't, don't quote me on it, butI think a lot of it also comes
down to the the smile because hemis makes it looks easy, right?
He's smiling. He's up there having a great
time. That's another thing the judges
want to see. They don't want to see you like
sweating and like on the verge of tears.
Like it, it fucking hurts. Like, don't get me wrong, when
you're that dehydrated and you haven't eaten in six months and
you're doing, you know, two hours of cardio a day, that shit

(07:38):
sucks. So you're going up and flexing
dehydrated, your muscles are cramping, Everything hurts, but
you have to hold it and you put a fucking smile on your face
because you're like, I don't want to lose.
So all that to say, that's kind of what goes into the judging.
And a lot of it is like judges that are at this level, they can
see the difference between like a guy who's 7% body fat and
9:00. They can see a guy who's bigger,
who's got a better shape. And, and some of it just comes

(07:59):
down to sheer genetics. Like, take a look at the guy on
the right. Look at his core versus the guy
in the center. Nick Walker.
I think that's Nick. Walker I think so.
I have a. Question, do you all think he'd
ever like win in Olympia? I think he has the grit and the
resilience, don't get me wrong, but his frame, and yeah, his
frame is just not. I just think he's got the
genetic, like, I don't say genetic owl, but like if you

(08:20):
look at his core and his upper body, it's like.
Yeah, it's it's. Dense and it's blocky and I
don't know if the judges would search characterize that as his
fault because there's not much you can do about that.
But if you look at what was the guy in the middle's name, I
don't even remember. Yeah, the guy's has like a good
six pack and Nick has like a four pack.
Yeah, yeah, Derek Luntz or Nick Walker that.
Was when Nick. Walker was the best.

(08:41):
I think that was yeah, because look at his PTA for Olympia,
Yeah. Cuz I mean, he's odds, he's
veiny, he's thick. This is quite scary.
Bro but on the other picture like here he seems like you know
good V taper but on the on the other picture I don't know if he
was like breathing or something.Looked like he had.
Kind of a little bit of palumbo,palumbo ISM or whatever it's

(09:01):
called where you got that like bloated stomach bloat.
Shit insulin GH as well. Insulin, Belgium, GH or bubble
gut? Yeah, whatever it is.
I mean, he's huge like this. Like he's.
Yeah. That's what he looks like
without the thing. Yeah, and he's bigger and will
ever be. So like, yeah, 5-6.
Yeah, 5-6. She looks kind of short.
Yeah, he's short as hell. Yeah, he's short.
He's short. But for a lot of this, like,

(09:23):
being short is just the best genetic you get.
Like, you know, being taller just means you have a bigger
frame. And so for certain things, like,
yeah, it's better, but it's kindof hard because, like, genetics
are such a big factor in this. And that's kind of the thing I
always explain to people, right?For someone who wants to get
into this, whether it's natural or enhanced, your genetics are
going to dictate pretty much howfar you go.
Like, yeah, you can be determined and do whatever.
Like, but if you're not a hyper responder, you're not going to

(09:46):
make it to the Olympia, right? You don't you're not going to
make it in natural if you aren'tcommitted for 5-6 years and have
great genetics and really give it 110%, right?
Like, you know, it's just. And we just saw that with the
three different, I mean, I don'tknow much about this, but you
just saw that with the three different guys.
Well, exactly. And like those guys are what we
call genetic responders or hyperresponders.

(10:06):
So what I mean by that is like they will take 150 milligrams of
test, right and say all four of us take it.
There's going to be a variation between Luis, between belay,
between Alex, between me. Like maybe Luis takes it and and
8:00. Weeks well.
No, no, we're talking exogenous,right?
Like we're talking injecting it.So if I inject all of that.
Really, it might be. We don't know that and so
there's. No way you're actually knowing.

(10:27):
I mean, you're just probably because you don't.
Yeah, probably because you don'twork out or diet.
Yeah, I mean, but Luis is so lean, he probably also doesn't
have it very high. You know, body fat also kills.
Like you need to have a certain amount for good.
But that's natural, right? The exogenous one when you're
injecting it, if they're very well could be like Luis could
take it and all of a sudden he could blow up and add 25 lbs of
lean muscle and be a monster, right?

(10:47):
Bullet could take it and all of a sudden drop like 15 lbs of fat
and then grow like 30 lbs of muscle, right.
I could take it and not change at all.
Like not not possible. Like not usually.
But like, that's what I'm saying.
Is there such a variation that you really don't know?
It's a wake, wake nudge, nudge. Like everybody there is on it,
but you can't like, I mean, it'shard because there's like, it's
one of those weird things where like, yes, it's illegal to do

(11:10):
steroids, but like it's one of those laws where it's like, oh,
it's like illegal to possess or something I get caught with.
But like all these guys have prescriptions, right?
So they go to a clinic and they're like, I need this, this,
this. And then obviously they have a
team of doctors. And that being said, though,
there are guys who don't do that.
And then that's where you get like people who have heart
problems and die because if you want to do that, you are going
to shave lifestyle later our years on years.

(11:33):
Yeah. Like it's because your body is
not made to be 300 lbs of lean muscle, right?
If you're not taking care of your heart and getting your
blood work done and not blastinggear, right?
If you're making sure you slowlytaper it and titrate it and not
do anything crazy, then sure, you'll be OK and you but you're
still going to take years off your life.
But comparatively, if you do it stupidly, like, like a lot of
guys in the industry do, they just inject themselves with a

(11:55):
fucking grammar test and then fucking eat cheeseburgers.
Yeah. So testosterone.
Testosterone is an anabolic steroid, and it's the derivative
of almost every steroid, right? Every one of them is a version
of testosterone, just modified alittle.
But a lot of the guys take something crazy, like, for
example, chenbalone, which is the thing they give to cattle to
keep them beefy when they transport them.
And that shit will fuck with your brain, right?

(12:16):
Like, you're not meant to be taking hormones we give to
cattle. So all that to say, it's not
safe. You can do it safely, but we're
talking about harm reduction, not making it completely safe
because your body's not meant tobe.
Where horse tranquil extra comesinto play not.
Quite no. OK, no.
So it's it's trembolone like I can read you the actual form on,

(12:36):
but trembolone acetate, yes. And so it's a synthetic
esteraneate steroid or a derivative of nandrolone or nor
testrone. But I'll just say it's an
androgen animal, like steroid and it's it's arguably one of
the most dangerous. Like it's mainly made for
veterinarians and for clinical stuff.
And so it's, yeah, it's not safe.
I mean, there's like a list of like, what are the safest ones?
And the answer is testosterone, like flat is the safest, right?

(13:00):
You know, we have things called like TRT clinics.
So in that same vein of like hormone replacement therapy,
when everyone talks about fucking like transitioning and
stuff, we forget that like guys over like 50 are taking
testosterone because your sex hormones crashed out.
Like when you get old, like thatjust happens and and then it's
good tremend to do that, right? Like if you're at 50 and you
have no test your, your, your Dick's not going to work.
You're going to feel lethargic, you're going to have brain fog.

(13:20):
You're not going to feel like a man anymore.
And it's like, is testosterone? In Viagra.
No. OK, that's different.
OK. Sorry for this question.
People do take no, no, but people do take Viagra because
it's a blood flow. Yes, thank you.
A blood flow, a vascular dilator.
Thank you, Louise. I always forget what it is, but
yes, that you take it because itopens your blood vessels and
allows you to get a better pump.I don't.

(13:42):
I don't. I'm really I don't.
Have porn in. The gym to make sure they get
even thicker. Yeah, that one.
Was weird, I'll be honest, I I understand the science of like,
oh, you look at a pretty girl and you're stronger, but like,
porn in the gym, dude, what? Yeah.
It's dude, there's a watch. Porn and they it's fucking.
Weird man like you know? Kind of stimulated emotion will
get you powers of like, you know, Alpha and this, I don't

(14:02):
know, it's weird. It's fucking weird.
It's kind. Of cringy, I'm not going to lie
I think it's not like sometimes when you're like like I respect
what you're saying Max because you you did it for the love of
the competition you did it for the fact that you thoroughly
enjoyed the sport and then you also tried it out and you were
like, this is what I got out of it and this is the experience
that I'm trying to tell people about it right and we're like
kind of talking about it here. But some people when they're

(14:22):
like like Wolf Pack or like oh, like we're wolves and it's like
bro, like you're just going to go lift the weight.
Like I do it because I like it. It's far.
I like the progress even though I see none sometimes I'm like,
you know what, like progress is progress.
But people who are like making it like this fighting demon shit
like come on, y'all are like in quarantine.
It's so. Corny Well, and it's weird

(14:43):
because it's like I remember, you know, I started this in
2019, right? I was really overweight all
pretty much my entire life, right?
I guess it's just little back story.
He was fat. I was.
And I was, you know, fatter thanhe.
Do like you think I'm bad? He was fat.
This is a lot of shit we don't say.
That, but we don't say I'm. Sorry.
I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm a shamer.
No, it's OK. I mean, it's true.

(15:03):
Like I was. I always struggle with my
weight. And you know, this was long
before TikTok was a thing and gym culture was a thing.
Like I was always struggling with my weight.
I never understood how to get itin control.
And diet wasn't like, it wasn't like you just go on TikTok and
learn how to do it right. This was when you actually had
some. Benefits to TikTok is that I'm
hearing from there are, yeah. No, there is, but it's also like
a, a monoculture thing, but that's besides the point.
But anyways, in like 2018, I just, I, I had to get my weight

(15:25):
under control. Like I, my breaking point was
when I would get winded going upthe stairs to my bedroom and I
was just like, OK, I have to change something.
Oh my. God, OK, I haven't gone to that.
Point. But that's that's nearing
Balaylo. Yeah, Balaylo.
UCLA steps. Are fucking different than your
steps in your bedroom. Max knows the UCLA stuff.
Even he got a little winded. Well, and that's.
The thing is, like I, you know, it was just hard because like

(15:49):
you, you kind of go your whole life being overweight and it's
hard because you see people thatare naturally skinny or vice
versa. And it's like you don't really
understand how that works. And so in that pre like TikTok
world, right, you have to decipher what works, what
doesn't, How do you lose weight?And you're like, oh, but green
tea detox and like waist trainers and she'll like go
into. Those two, dude growing up,
they're all. Stupid, like they're all just
like lies and and that's honestly the hardest part

(16:11):
because once you realize like, oh, it's just having a decent
diet consistently over time, making sure you exercise and
move enough and making sure it works for you because that's
kind of the component missing from TikTok and shit.
The thing that I hate the most is people are like, oh, you have
to be fighting demons and like crying in the gym because your
girlfriend broke up with you or something like that.
It's like, no, no, you don't. Like if you want to be angry
because you're having a bad day,like that's totally fine.

(16:32):
And if you're in a bad place, I think going to the gym is a
great thing, right? But that doesn't mean you have
to be like, yeah, it's like, that's fucking stupid.
You don't have to be flipping your hood up pretending.
Like you're like, man, it helpedme.
It was good. I like sure.
Like whatever you want. Like if you Ariana.
Grande thing. Yeah.
So you can you come closer to the mic when you speak something
like I'm trying to hear you. It's just kind of hard to
actually. No, I was like, I was telling

(16:52):
him, like for the first two years I was just listening to
Aria on the ground and like, it wasn't that.
Fuck it. OK, Yeah.
You feel like you're. Like, listen, that's, that's
when I first got into music because I was like, shit, I'm
spending so much time in the gym.
Like I gotta learn how to fucking like music.
But no. I just, I think, I think TikTok
is, has been a, a game changer in the fitness community.
Because I remember like around that time, like 2019, even 2020
to some extent, where when I wasn't on TikTok, I feel like

(17:15):
the, the, the depth and just breadth of information regarding
fitness was like not close to what it is today.
I feel like the, the kids now, they can grow much faster, much
earlier because the, the, the, the quality of information is
just so much better. I remember you had like a few
Youtubers at the time. You had like, I would RIP like

(17:38):
Athlean X. Oh and like just like Athlean X
and and that was it. But now you have like all these
like science based guests. You have like TNF, you have
like. Ryan Tours and Ryan.
Drewers. I love Ryan Drewers and I'm
getting. Old because I don't even know
how he teams. JBG.
You first met. Your Santa Cruz.
When I first met your dad, he looked like Athlean X to me.

(17:59):
I didn't know you knew he we wasmy.
Contacts Louise's dad like bikes, like 100 miles like, like
and it's, it's like, I'm, I'm sorry Louise, you're ripped, but
you will never be your dad. Your dad's legs, bro.
They're laughs. Let's put in this podcast.
Mr. Toto's legs. Insane every time I see him.
Fighting. I'm just like, bro, has he liked

(18:19):
the cross phantom before? Yeah.
He's the, there's like a race called Ocean to it's, it's, it's
not, it's not, I think it's like80 kilometers or like 100
kilometers. He's he's, he's done longer than
that. But yeah, there's a race called
Ocean to Ocean that like starts on one end and that ends in the
city, which is pretty nice. So cool.
How many miles is that hold up just to give our viewers our

(18:40):
maker? I don't, I don't that's no,
isn't it like I guess 30 or 62 miles?
62 miles. Yeah, 'cause it's like
kilometers are like a little more than a little less than .2
a mile, one point. 6091 point. Six.
There we go. Yeah, that's pretty.
I mean, you're absolutely right,Louis.
It's like, I mean, like at the breath of knowledge is bigger,
but I think more so it's accessible.

(19:03):
And I think that was the better issue with prior to TikTok and
all that kind of stuff, because it wasn't so much that the
information didn't exist and like it to be it was about
accessibility, right? You actually had to Google and
then figure out and watch the video and and and read things,
which is a lot harder. And the hard thing with this is
like it's a behavioral change thing.
And, you know, having done it myself and now having worked in
personal training for almost four years and a whole breath of

(19:25):
things, you realize it's, it's, it's individualized, right?
And so when people go like, Oh, I'm just going to make a change,
right? I'm going to just lose 60 lbs.
It's like, that's a lot harder said than done.
And like 90% of people will fail.
And that's great. If you're one of the 10% like,
like you or me that can just, I just did it, right?
Not everyone can do that. And it's, it's really kind of
difficult just because like, howdo you prompt that growth?

(19:47):
Like you can't? And so it's one of those things
like, I guess what worked for mewas like, I was 15.
I was so overweight that like, you know, when you're 6 foot 3
and 260 something pounds, like just moving and not eating 10
grilled cheese a day will make you lose weight, right?
So it's like I was tell me. What you used to eat, Yeah.
Yeah, I would. And it hurts because it comes
like a, a reinforcement loop. And it's, it's, it's just

(20:10):
difficult because you know, you go to school, right?
Like, for example, like with me,you go to school and people
already make fun of you for being fat.
You're, or you know, you're overweight.
People can make fun of you for it.
And they call you like, they're like, Hey, titties come here and
you're like, what do you want meto do?
Or like, they just do this thingcalled scooping the Paddy,
right? They would go underneath my
chest and go like this and like flip the Paddy and burn.
And it's like I was like. I could do that to you all the.
Time. Yeah.

(20:30):
I mean, I heard every cat joke on the planet.
No, it's like I heard it, friends.
Are like, Oh yeah. Friends.
Yeah, No, no, like, like friendswould do it and they would do it
in front of girls that I had crushes on.
Like it's just, it was one of those things.
That's what people didn't. Yeah, it's high school.
Man, it's awful. I'm going.
To put a clip, a photo of Max from his recent competition
right here so you guys could andbe.
Like oh dude, you're like way too skinny bro.
You need to add some mass. And I'll be like, listen man,

(20:51):
like I'm 19, what do you want meto do?
But but I'll just say like it's a reinforcement loop rights.
People make fun of you for eating too much and like you
can't, you can't eat a salad right when you're that fat,
because then people are like, Oh, you're trying to lose
weight, fatty. And it's like, well, what the
fuck do you want from them? You know, I would, it looks like
I would try to like diet. I would do stupid things.
I'd be like, I'm going to eat like leafy greens for lunch and
shit. And it's like people would go

(21:11):
find me for it. And I'm like, well, fuck, do you
want me to do? But so anyways, all that to say,
over the summer, I had finally just broken right?
I was like, fuck it, I I have tochange something and, and I'm
going to be so honest. It was like the catalyst was was
a girl and I was like, I'm again15.
I have the summer and I told oneof my friends who was like, Mr.
like, I love lifting and I'm always in shape because he was,
you know, I'm already into that shit.
And I was like, OK. And he's like, he didn't believe
me. But anyways, so it started with

(21:33):
walking a lot more because it's summer, right?
You're 15. Oh yeah.
That's from a recent competition.
She as well. Thanks that's.
Almost two years ago now, but you guys can tell me I look way
too skinny. I I know I my coach under
underwatered me and we didn't have enough carbs and a whole
slew of other things. But that was my first men's
physique natural show. So but anyways, all that to say,
it was just one of those things where I just, I just tried

(21:54):
everything, right? I would try to walk outside as
much as I could. I would take the dog outside.
I would walk to and from like the gym and I would go and like,
I didn't know how to lift. So I would just do random shit
like I would do push ups and fucking sit ups and whatever.
And so I changed the vegetables.Like I would just randomly eat
like chicken thighs and vegetables.
I wouldn't eat anything different, right?
Or I would just drink a protein shake and have a fruit.
And it's like you don't actuallyknow how calories and calories

(22:16):
how it works at that point, but it it worked.
And so after like three or four months, I had gone from like 260
ish to like 2:30-ish and then down to two O 5 by the time
school had started. And at that point, it was that
big. City.
No, well, kind of, but, but people were like starting to
notice and it was one of those things where the once you get
the ball rolling, I think it's alot easier to keep it going,

(22:37):
right. So one of the things in my
training that I teach my clients, right, I always try to
start with a small victory because I want you to feel like,
hey, like, you know what, I I can do this, right?
Because once you break that negative habit, I think it's a
really good enforcement loop. Like, you know, maybe it's
starting with a good lift or even if, and I'm going to be so
honest, a lot of the times I just lie and I'm like, holy
shit, like, wow, you've learned that.
So like you're the only client that's learning that quickly.

(22:58):
Like it's, it's whatever, but itmakes them feel good and, and
then they're more likely to comeback.
And that's important, right? If you're actual.
Clients do not watch the spelling of gas.
God, I hope not. But but but no.
And it's it's it's, that's what it's like.
And so as I got better at, I kept learning and I just kept
trying different things. And this was when Athlean X.
And if this guy still exists on YouTube, Gravity Transformations

(23:19):
is out there. His name's also Max.
And if he's still there, I just want to give him the biggest
shout out because he is the reason I have a career and paid
my way through college with personal training, because I
wouldn't have been able to do itwithout his without his videos.
But but I'll have to say it's, it's good content.
And it was something that actually taught me quite a bit.
And it became like a yeah. And so it started with him and

(23:40):
it got to the point where like Istarted learning more and more
and then reading and it's like reasons you should lift heavy
and what you should eat and likewhat I had to do creatine.
And like, I don't think a lot ofit's great X information.
Like I haven't read any of it orwatched any of it in years.
But the fact of the matter is like it is a start.
And so once I had done that, I had started lifting weights and

(24:01):
I didn't do it consistently enough because I was like, I
didn't, I didn't know and I didn't realize like cardio
wasn't going to make me look theway I wanted.
So I lost a lot of fat, but I still wasn't looking the way I
wanted to. So after I'd lost like 4050 lbs,
I was like, OK, something's not right.
So I started trying the weights and I just kept Googling things
and every time I was like, OK, what should I do to lift?
So I was doing like bicep curls and like chest press and like

(24:22):
back pull down some fucking likelike press.
But I was like, OK, maybe I should learn some other stuff,
right? And local like gym members
helped me and, and people aroundand, and of course the Internet
is huge. But that was like prime 2019 gym
shark, right? That was back when like you had
David Lane, you had like little,like you had James English, like
that was Chef Kiss Prime. Like it just, it was things did

(24:44):
not get better than that. But after watching a lot of
those videos, you know, I had learned and about three to four
months later, right around Christmas 2019, it's like I had
finally gotten my weight under control.
I was 185 lbs at six foot four. And like it got to the point
where every time I'd go to school, I would wear like a
baggy sweatshirt or a hoodie because I kind of, I wanted
people to know, but I didn't. And it was a weird like back and

(25:05):
forth where like I would wear this, I had this pink hoodie,
which now it's like skin tight and I actually throw it out
because it's too tall, which is kind of cool.
But but back then nobody could tell because I always wore the
hoodie and I'd have it up and didn't really talk to anybody
and have like, I wasn't popular.Obviously I was a fucking loser.
But but then like a couple months ago I had people like,
wait a minute, like you have a jaw line now.
And I was like, I know, where's my like double chin?
And like they'd like notice they're like, oh, what are you

(25:25):
drinking? It's like a protein shake.
And like, I'd eat like cold vegetables for lunch, but again,
when people do lunches, I didn't.
I didn't. I did qualify, but I didn't want
to because I was like, I'm just going to drink a protein shake
and eat my vegetables. I love those.
Shits so much. Yeah, I mean, they're good.
I just, I wasn't going to fuck with the diet, you know, because
the diet's the most important part.
And that's what I learned. And so it's like once I had

(25:47):
gotten it on control, like I joined the swim team and I was
lifting the weights and I started boxing.
I kept doing these things and I kept finding new ways to make it
work. And.
And that's really what started it, right?
So at that point, the ball was rolling and then it got to the
point where it's like, OK, then I overdid it.
And then I was like 172 lbs and I was super skinny because I'm
again, tall. And I was like, OK, I have to
actually lift weights and COVID,yada, yada.
But that's, that's what started it.

(26:08):
You know, it was just one of those things where I finally
figured it out and made it work.And I think my favorite thing
about all of it was like, nobodyknew, right?
Nobody in my town went to the gym.
Like it was our local gym. I did it.
Didn't post anything like nobodyknew about it.
And so that's one of the things I love about it because I
realized how much better it would have been had someone been
cheering me on. And that's really what I think a
lot of people should be doing right.
When your friend wants to get inshape, your friends like you

(26:30):
don't, you shouldn't make fun ofthem or talk down to them.
You know, you want to help them like you.
You should do that because if you are in shape, you are one of
those people. You owe it to those people to
help them to be a kind person. And like that's, that's my big
gripe also with university gems is that I nothing bothers me
more when someone who's in greatshape, someone's a big guy.
I've been doing this for a whileis an asshole to someone just
starting and it happens all the time.

(26:50):
I hear at UCS B and there's nothing more I love than and I I
call it humbling them. I don't actually do that.
But like in the few times where someone was rude to like my
roommates, right, who had just started lifting weights,
they're, you know, soaking wet, like 140 lbs.
Some got some douchebag and likea fucking gym shark Stringer is
rude to them. They're like, oh, you know, you
can't have the bench. It's like they're only putting
on 185 lbs on benches all the time.
Yeah, because this is a fucking asshole.

(27:11):
I've not. I've never seen a lot like it's.
It's weird you guys don't. Yeah, like UCLA, that doesn't
happen. And it's.
And I would say the gym culture here is really big.
Like the gyms are always fuckingpacked and.
People are, police are. Like, super nice.
Like they always let you work. Even like the really fit people
always let you work in. Yeah, it's weird.
Because if like we've. Had a different problem with
that and like I again, I didn't go with my friends much to the

(27:34):
gym just because it was like it was just I had my own regiment
and they had their own. But whenever someone was rude to
them like nothing, nothing makesme angry than when people do
that right? Like there is no reason for you
to be rude to someone who's waiting on you or be an asshole
or make them wait longer than you have to.
Like get your workout, get the fuck out of their way and be
kind of about it. Like, so one of those things is
like if someone was being rude to them, like they're like, I'm
like, what are you guys fitting on?

(27:54):
Like, oh, we need a bench. And it's like, oh, this guy's
hogging. He's on 1/6 thing.
It's like either if I had my staff thing, I'd I'd be like,
Nah, like come on, man, you got to share.
Or if I was working out with them, like the few times I did,
it's like, OK, well, if he's doing 185, all right, well, I'll
I'll hop in line. I'll be like, oh, how much you
got? And he's like, I'm like, oh, I'm
done. I'll be like, oh, no, no, throw
on it at 45. I got to warm up and it's like,
I'm going to smoke and make him look like an asshole.
Because if you're going to talk down people like that, you

(28:16):
deserve to be put in your place because you're a douchebag and
you have no right to talk down to talk down to someone like
that. And it was one of those things
where I love, like, putting people like that in their place
because you have absolutely no right to be rude to people like
that, right? There was no reason for you to
be an asshole to guys like like my buddy Tail, right?
He's a nice guy. He just asked politely how many
sets you have left and you told him to fuck off.
So at that point, someone deserves to humble you because
you're being a douchebag. Yeah.

(28:40):
I think I I would I. Would throw hands it.
I would be like first I would belike, what the hell Like that is
not even great. No, it's insane.
And it's like it, it doesn't happen often, but the few times
it does, it's one of those things where I'm like, you're a
douchebag and, and, and truly someone deserves to come and put
you in your place. Because when you treat other
people like that, it's like you deserve to be sure that same
way. And it's, it's one of those

(29:00):
things where I don't understand why you would be rude to someone
like that. Like I one of my things is
whenever I see someone waiting on a bench and like, again, I've
been doing this for a long time.Like I'm up there in the like
mid to high two 50s. Like if I see someone waiting,
I'm just going to finish my set really quick.
I'll like signal to them, like, Hey, I got one more and like
it's yours. And like, I'm not going to make
them wait. Like I'm not going to be sitting
there on fucking TikTok scrolling around.
Like, especially if you're benching like a plate and some

(29:21):
of those persons waiting, offer to let them in.
If you're on TikTok, offer to share.
Like everyone's got time. Everyone's got places to be.
Like nobody's got time actually.But, but the point being is I
just, I hate the culture. And that's that's one of the
reasons why I gave up bodybuilding because like when I
went to my show, one of my big things that I had problems with
competitors, right? Was that it was their whole
life. And like, if you spend every
single day focused on how big are my muscles and what am I

(29:44):
going to eat today, that just kind of sounds like a really
boring life And like not being sure I want you into actual
stimulation. But like there was no
stimulation to it. It's like there's only so many
like days of cardio you can do, only so many reps of bench you
can do. And like, don't you want to be
able to read or talk about things or like have any other
hobbies like you know? What I mean they just.
This is all they do. Yeah, it is.
And it's like. That's.
Fine. Like yeah, that's yeah, but

(30:05):
like, just don't be a Dick to other people.
Well. It's like getting.
Started and and getting yeah that's.
And that's disgusting behavior. Like I genuinely, I wish there
was like a revolt against that because people that do that are
just the worst. And it's like, I hate that.
It's, it's truly my biggest gripe.
And anytime I see it, it's like,dude, my blood goes red.
I don't know why, like I don't like, why, why would you do
that? Like I don't get it.
What's the point of being rude to somebody?

(30:25):
Like if you're standing in someone's way, like be polite,
let them in. If someone wants the bench, like
offer to let them work in. Like, and if they compliment
you, be nice. Don't keep like a douche bag and
be like, Oh yeah, that's right. Like look up, don't be an
asshole. Like I, I hate gym culture for
that. And like, I'm glad to hear UCLA
is better than that because it it happens here not a lot, but
when it does, nothing makes me anchor the.
Yeah, it's like so different because my biggest complaint at

(30:47):
most is like the the, the most rude thing and the rudest thing
that I've ever seen, which is like nothing compared to you, is
me asking like, how many more sets do you have?
And then they're like, I got like 3 or something.
And then I'm like, oh, can I work in?
And then they're like, no. And I'm like wait.
Wasn't that? Wasn't that?

(31:07):
A girl who did that to you or. Yeah, I, I, I don't know, like
it's, I feel like it's happened once, but.
But I'm like so surprised. And that's like nothing compared
to yours. So like, well, I guess and.
That's but that's similar. It's that same vein of like what
makes your reps or sets so special that I can't work in?
Like I also have a place to be and then I would get it, you
know, if it's like you have to have just a whole rack or
something like. Anxiety to like, sure.

(31:29):
But like I feel like why? To kind of step in, I feel like
it's a two way street. I feel like at UCLA, right,
we're a big ass school, right? But we're small in acreage,
right? We barely keep fit whatever
smallest. You feed it.
I don't know. If you saw Befit, Befit is
literally like a closet. And then like what's it called?
Wooden isn't much better, right?Like the issue is you will walk

(31:52):
in during prime time hours and you have like eight people
waiting for benches, right? Well.
And before it was worse 'cause there's like 4 and there's like
4 benches that wooden for like 40,000 people.
And then before there was like 4squad racks and now there's like
a or something. Yeah.
Like sophomore year it was like absurd.
I was like, what the hell is like?

(32:12):
Like I. Think the worst thing that's
happened to me at Wooden was it wasn't necessarily something
like that. Like I was in the front of the
line and I saw these two dudes. They're both power lifters,
right? They have like a little piece of
like fabric, you know, that you put on like tables or in closets
to kind of create that friction between their backs.
Like they don't use chalk because it's like makes a mess

(32:33):
and sure, whatever super weird about it.
And then they had all the all their equipment, right?
And it was literally 2. They're both friends, right?
Because I see them like spottingeach other and one guy's doing a
plate and the other guy's doing a plate and I'm just like
looking and I'm like, you guys clearly fucking know each other.
Just finish the workout and go. And we literally waited for the

(32:55):
third guy who then left. We finish our set and they're
still not done. And it's like, it's like super
frustrating because like the, I feel like, like personally I've,
I've seen like Jim etiquette where people think they're super
entitled. But also like, you know, we were
talking about the whole social media thing.
I think social media has made itmore prominent, like 100.
Percent, Yeah, I I don't know. If you watch Joey Swole, I'm

(33:17):
like, I kind of like him. Like, it's not like, I'm not
like I'm crazy for him. But like, sometimes, like
people, like they'll put their like tripods around.
They're like, oh, I own this place.
Like, no, you don't. And then you look the same as
everybody else. You know, you're doing the same
shit. But and then it's like, it also
goes back to like when we were talking about Sam Sollig, Sam
Sollig was popular. People kept copying him and
they're thinking they're Sam Sollig, but they're not, you

(33:38):
know, And I took this class fromthe summer or last summer.
It's called Engineering 183. And it was like called
Technology and Society. We were talking about social
media. One of the things that I looked
at was specifically the idea of the carnivore diet and how
individuals like, if you know him, I think his name is Doctor
Paul Sondina. It was Carnivore MD.
You saw a Yeah, man. Rao.

(33:59):
Kept claiming this carnivore diet about like it was like 100
grams of red meat per pound of body weight.
I, I don't remember, I don't, itwas weird.
It was, and then like when you looked at like basic studies
that related cardiovascular health to red meat consumption,
it literally set the range of which you need to consume.
Of of course there's nuances to that, you know, like the

(34:20):
populations and stuff, but it was like his limit was like
triple that of like the cardiovascular increase of like
20%. Like, and it's like you, you're
telling people to eat more red meat.
You're telling people to just gofull, like, you know, full
protein, no carbs, no nothing. And it's.
Yeah. It's it's bad.
Yeah, Jim Culture. 'S just gotten to a point where

(34:40):
it's really interesting and likethe misinformation and the 100%
entitlement, it's both. I wouldn't.
Even call it misinformation, I would call it disinformation
because I feel like it's a lot of these people, they know
better, but they fully do. And it's a thing of like saying
the truth is really unpopular, right?
It's I, I want to tie this into like like economics, right?
Like it's really boring when you're like, oh, actually we
need to raise taxes and have stable like deficit spending,

(35:02):
right? We need to bring it down.
And it's like, that's, that's boring, right?
Nobody gives a shit about that. Everybody wants to go no taxes.
And it's like, well, that's boring.
Like that, that that's fun, right?
Or sorry, my thing is boring. Your thing is fun.
And, and same thing with gym culture.
Like if you're like, Hey, here'smy physique.
I'm huge. I only eat red meat all day.
I put the little fucking steak on a wooden cutter board and I
put honey on it with blueberries.
It's like fucking dude, sure, like that looks cool for like

(35:23):
one time, but you're not it's like it's, it's fucking, it's
weird and it's like it's a disinformation loop where people
are like, and most of my job, truly, a lot of times when I get
into clients, it's just a disinformation like session
where I try to explain, no, whatyou saw on TikTok is not
entirely true. We have studies like you don't
need to be doing like 10 different glute exercises
because you saw a girl with a big butt and then therefore you
want to follow that. I'm like, you don't have to do

(35:43):
that, right? And it's just, it's embarrassing
because it's one of those thingswhere you can't and there is
good information out there, but you have to like double check it
and you have to Fact Check things and you actually have to
think about it and you have to learn.
It's like most people don't do that.
And, and, and and gym culture inparticular becomes a lot of like
this weird narcissism feedback loop.
It's like a narcissism disinformation feedback loop

(36:04):
with a mix of like I was called like a monoculture where like
everyone's like Jim demons, likeWolf Pack, like emo, what
fucking whatever. Maybe that's like outdated, but
like, what the fuck? Like why are we why are we Co
opting these things? And like sometimes I feel like
it's just incoherent because yousee the people that do it and
you're like, why the fuck do youhave a a backpack that says like
trust your instincts or like trust no one or fucking

(36:24):
whatever. It's like, dude, you're just a
guy going to work out. You're 20 something like you're
20 like 8 like fucking relax. Like it doesn't have to be that
deep. And like I think the thing that
I hate the most too about it wasthe emo shit of like all the
brands Co opting like for some reason it was like spider man
but like only black suit spider man or like like Batman and
shit. I'm like, why are people coming
in with like a Batman T-shirt acting like they're like I'm

(36:45):
broke, I'm going to go work out.It's like did you did do not
read the source of material, do not know what the point of these
things are. Like the spider man 1 kills me
because I'm like, you do understand the whole black suit
thing is like he's being an asshole.
That's a part of the story, right?
It's it's corrupting his personality.
He's ending the black suit. He's an asshole.
Did you not watch spider man 3? Did you not read the fucking
story like that match? Is a big, big fan dude, you see
the. Comic books on my wall like I

(37:06):
just I hate that like especiallythe Co opting of of like
superheroes and shit into that for like gym culture.
It's like like why? Why do you need fucking Batman
on your T-shirt and telling you how broken you are?
Like what the fuck is wrong withyou?
Grow the fuck up like the young.LA heroes and super villains.
Jesus Christ. Dude, it's so fucking corny and
like, and it's bad because like I feel like a lot of kids fall

(37:26):
for it and like I did too because I was a kid and you'd
think like, oh, this guy's shredded and it's good looking.
I want to be like him. But they don't set a good role
model. Like that's what I think Sam was
great about, right? Sam Select was a great role
model. Like he went to school, he was a
nice guy. He didn't cause problems.
He was just a dude who wanted tolive his life normally.
Like that's that's fucking awesome.
But a lot of these like young blood douchebags like to like
show off their hot cars and their fast things and like then

(37:48):
they end up dying or doing stupid shit and making people
like even Dumber. It's like I just will stand.
When like one of them tragicallypasses away and I'm like holy
fucked or. I like when you were talking
about like the cars thing. The first person that popped
into my head was Alex eBay. Oh my God, he's just.
Like always him flexing on a carand I'm like fucking.
I'm not, I have nothing personally against the guy, but
his content is legitimately likegarbage because like I don't

(38:11):
know if you've seen some of his like like his recent stuff, but
like every time, my God. This is Alex eBay I follow him
on TikTok. Bro, of course you.
Do. Of course you do.
Wait, wait. You guys wait.
Wait. You guys mean Andrew Eubanks?
Roy, right? Andrew Eubanks.
Wait. This is him.

(38:31):
I thought, yeah, yeah. Yeah, OK.
Also, I feel like he's been not naughty for a lot longer than
he's claimed. Yeah, I feel like.
He's lying, I mean because like his thing is like OK four years
and like 1. He lies about how long he's been
doing this too. I'm assuming he's lying about
his like actual natty status which is fucking fine.
Like. 28 This is him in 2022, yeah.
And it's also, again, the good thing is it's really easy to
hide like in your four years, ifyou're telling me that was your

(38:54):
baseline, OK, natty means. Natural.
Just OK, Just yes, no. No constants and cogs.
You're good. Yeah, but you have that thing
like if you look at his 2018 picture, that's already a guy
who works out. Like if you go to the other one
comparison, that's already a guywho lives like that's yeah,
that's a guy who goes to the gym, diets.
Well, like a good structure. Like the fact that you're
telling me that's your baseline.If you I got a piece of fucking
land in Ohio or a beachfront property in Ohio to sell you.

(39:16):
If you think that's fucking a starting physique.
And if it is like I'll go athlete, bite the bullet and be
like, no, I'm wrong. But like that's not a guy who
just never hit the gym before. Like, I'm sorry, that's that's a
guy most of. These guys have like, I mean the
the like top of the top influencers, like their starting
point isn't that shitty because I mean great genetics.
So like, yeah, of course space line that's like above 9095% of

(39:41):
the population. So well, of course.
Well, that too. And like they lie about it
because of course they're going to shave off.
They'll be like, oh, this is my fifth year of it.
It's like, no, it's probably you're six or seven, if not more
and you probably took X enhancement or you're just
lying, which is fine. Like if, but but I think the
thing I hate most is like the line, because if you're like, if
you're not natural, don't tell people you are because you have

(40:01):
a bunch of little kids that are going to believe it, right?
Like look at this, like I said, 16.
He showed his eighteen one and he's obviously leaner and drier
than that. It's like, why are you lying?
And like I understand social media incentivizes you to lie.
I get that, but why are you being a douche just like about?
This in Louis's class, like how you want to like drive up
engagements and how that leads us to like, there's like a

(40:21):
study, it's a political, but there's like a study how like if
you call out your opposition on Twitter, you're 64 times more,
64% more likely to have it retweeted versus like your own
group or something. Like that, of course, no.
So you're incentivized to cause chaos, not cause chaos.
It's a cause debate, insult people like 'cause social like
disruption. You're not incentivized to tell

(40:43):
the truth and be I'm sorry, I said.
Greg Duset. Jesus, look, I like Greg.
I like all these people. Can we?
Get one of them on the podcast. We probably could legitimately.
Get Greg though, I think he would like some shit like this.
Well, he would. And I think Greg is, you know,
he's a great, great content. Like I don't agree on though,
you know, I just again, I, I, I,but it's not his fault and it's

(41:03):
not anyone person's fault. It's just, it's the way it's
structured, right? It's meant to incentivize you to
say outlandish things and createconflict.
Like it's not incentivized for you to really sound so like,
like the fact that he blew up I think is a great thing, but I
wish more of that happened because like he didn't blow up
like or like, I mean, or he did blow up organically, but it took
him hundreds of views and videosfor people to be like, holy
shit, look at how big he is. It wasn't like, hey, this is a

(41:24):
really nice guy who talks to thecamera and has decent content
and doesn't say outlandish and rude things.
Like it's just it's all bad. I don't know, it's whatever.
Max, I have a question. Absolutely.
And other talking. About the the idea of like going
back into the conversation of working out, what would you
recommend for people who are like, like busy slash sick to

(41:45):
kind of incorporate, you know, like the, you know, getting your
45 minutes of working out plus, you know, your 30 minutes of
yeah. Yeah, well, that's a that's a
good question. So, so one of the things like is
obviously you need a level of subjectivity to your individual
situation, right? Like the question is like, are
you like disabled? Like do you have trouble getting
into the gym? Like what's the issue here?
And so I would implore you to think about that of like, what

(42:06):
is causing you not be able to get to the gym?
And like we would take a look atyour time habits and like, what
is the issue, right? Do you work 9 hours a day?
And so if the answer is like that, like, then I would say the
answer is one, let's try to finda way where we get more activity
in your day, right? You know, maybe you don't have
time for the gym, right? Maybe it really is impossible.
So the answer is like, let's tryto get more activity, more
steps, more whatever, more movement.
And then of course, when you gethome, obviously if you're busy,

(42:29):
like, then I get that, right? That happens.
But I would implore you to try weekends.
So what I would say if like we're talking bare minimum, two
full body workouts on the weekends.
And like I understand, like resttimes are not perfect on that,
but a full body workout. And if that's really the only
time you have, I would say the weekend is the best opportunity
to full body workouts. Spec I back-to-back.
I don't I really don't love, buttruly it's better than nothing.

(42:52):
I would also say like the bare minimum would be 3 full body
days of workout a week. And if you can make time for
that 45 minute workout, full body, one muscle group, two to
three sets, every muscle group to failure, you know, it's, it's
going to be enough. So the question is like, could
you get in like a Monday evening, a Wednesday evening and
then like a Saturday? You know, that's, that's my like
my busy person schedule. If you really wanted to do a

(43:14):
bare minimum while still making improvements in progress.
But I really think a lot of it is just start where you can.
Something will always be better than nothing.
And so if you're really a busy person, like you're a student or
whatever, like when you can workout, go for it, right?
You know, when you feel like youhave time, go for it, right?
If you do have the time, make time and it's easier said than
done. Like I get it.

(43:34):
You know, I did the internship in DC where it's like I was
working almost 40 hours a day orlike 40 hours a week and it's
like we were just busy from fucking 630 when I'd wake up,
shower, get ready for work untilfucking six, 7:00 when we get
home. And it's like if you can squeeze
in a 45 minute lift, great. If you can't, you know what?
3 full body days a week is plenty.
If you can do more, even better,you know, so that's that would

(43:56):
be my answer to the busy person.Schedule two to three times a
week, full body. If you can, great.
If not, like you know what, we'll find a way to make it
work. And anything is always better
than nothing. Like if it's just taking your
dog for a long walk at the end of the night, if it's taking the
stairs at work, like that's that's good too.
Anything is always better than nothing.
And I think if you can find a way to make fitness or just even

(44:17):
general activity a part of your lifestyle, it doesn't even have
to be lifting weights, right? If you like climbing, if you'd
like hiking, that's good. Like that's great.
What I implore you to lift weights for, you know,
functional fitness and keeping your muscles active and you
know, longevity, like yes, but it's not it's not a mandatory
thing, right. So truly it's about you.
That's that was my big slogan with my personal training is

(44:38):
like we put the personal personal training, we find a way
to make it work for you. If you can come in four days a
week, great. Like I love that we'll do upper,
lower, upper, lower with a rest and a rest in between.
If you can come in three days a week, we'll do full body three
times a week. If you can go in six, even
fucking better. But like, it's about finding how
you can get it done and keeping it sustainable because, you
know, randomly waking up one dayand deciding, hey, I'm going to

(44:59):
go to the gym six days a week and do cardio every single day
for the next rest of my life. That's, that's just not going to
happen, you know, I think. Everything you guys have said
has been pretty helpful. I'm obviously not a bodybuilder,
so I don't know a lot of this information, but something I've
been hearing a lot about, especially in in the political
world, especially now with RFK being the health and the human
health secretary, is this whole conversation about seed oils.

(45:23):
I don't know what to believe. I don't really.
I've tried to do my own researchand it's just like it's, it's,
it's really difficult to find out the truth about seed oils.
I've spoken to Louise and Alex about it and they, they both
told me a couple things about it.
I kind of wanted to ask you guys, are seed oils good for
you? Are they bad for you?
Or is there an answer in between?

(45:43):
Louise, I wanted to kind of ask you first.
Well, I think the conventional wisdom when you ask a
nutritionist, they're gonna tellyou that in comparison to
saturated source of fat, like butter, like animal fat, it is

(46:05):
healthier given that it's unsaturated.
Max, do you do you disagree withthat or?
Yeah, I. Was like, there's probably just
a better way to phrase it ratherthan like the type of fat.
I would argue it's just more what the seed oil is, right?
Like seed oils come from seeds, right?
Like that's part of the thing and they're plant based cooking
oils. So like the whole point of them

(46:26):
is made for cooking for fried foods, for processed and ultra
processed foods, things that arelike put through the processor
over and over and over. And I think more so the fear of
them is like they come from sources that we're not supposed
to be eating in this quantity. And like you think like grape
seed, corn oil, canola oil, sunflower oil, safflower, rice,
like peanut, whatever. They're mostly used for like

(46:48):
fried foods and ultra processed foods.
So The thing is like, do it. Should we avoid them like
they're the fucking plague? Like, OK, no, because we live in
the 21st century. Like you can't, you can't do
that. Like, I'm sorry, unless you want
to live off of like a $2000 a month food allowance, Like you
can't do that. But like we can make better
changes. Like The thing is with oils,
right, you know, coconut oil or olive oil and like real olive

(47:10):
oil, not like stuff you find thestore.
Like you have to make sure you're getting the right olive
oil, like it's going to be better for you.
But it's it's one of those things where I think a lot of it
comes down to just like silly little sciences where we're
showing like extra little thing of like, look, look at this
research, right? Look what it said.
And it's like, yeah, I don't disagree that seed oils are bad
because they're ultra process. But it's like, I think the
correction would be selection bias, right, Of being like, oh,

(47:32):
they're really bad for you. It's like, well, yeah, because
you're eating fucking deep friedlike Twinkies and you're like,
oh, but the seed oils, I can't have those.
It's like, yeah, you shouldn't be having seed oils, period.
Like they're not really not madefor humans to have that much
sunflower oil. But the better question is, what
are you eating that has that much seed oil in it?
Like, you know, it's in most items.
I don't disagree with that. And like, if you can, I would
implore you to opt for like extra virgin olive oil or like

(47:54):
avocado oil or like fucking coconut oil.
Like it's fine. And like you said, the mono
saturated fats that are higher, that's great.
They're not seed based. But like you can't just cut them
out entirely and be like, dude, no, I can't.
I'm like, it's like it's one of those things where like in the
hierarchy of of needs right in the pyramid, everything under
here, which is like getting enough sunlight, drinking enough

(48:15):
like water, having veggies, having protein, getting good
sleep and lifting weights or exercising is 90% of the battle.
And then once we're arguing about fucking seed oils, it's
like, dude, put down the fuckinglike TikTok or like that
spiritual like fucking magic thing.
Like just just just stick with the basics.
Don't overcomplicate it. Like if you can like avoid it
because you're avoiding fucking fried chicken or like French

(48:37):
fries or shit like that. It's like that.
Maybe you shouldn't be having a lot of those.
If you're having enough seed oils to the point where seed
oils are the problem, you maybe we should take a look at your
diet before we start dissecting it.
Like I can really have this thing.
Like, you know, if you're eatinglike mostly clean food like
fucking Turkey breast and chicken and whatever and you're
cooking it with like avocado oilor almond oil or like or not
almond oil, fucking olive oil. Like it's that's fine.

(48:59):
Like, and you know what, if you're going to have a little
bit of seed oil, go for it. Like, look, I, I can't, I'm not
going to pretend like I'm a scientist.
I could tell you like, erm, it'sdestroying your hormones or
whatever. Like, but I would implore you to
try getting enough rest, liftingyour weights, eating enough
vegetables and like, if it's frozen veggies, fine because
they're expensive. Like try to eat lean meats like
Turkey or chicken or fish or whatever is are.
Frozen vegetables like? Is there any difference between

(49:22):
the frozen vegetables and just like?
I think there is a small difference and not in nutrition
but I believe in taste because when you freeze.
Them. Yeah, there is, yeah.
So in terms of. Because I like to get frozen
vegetables just because. Like because it's.
Cheaper and easier to start. Yeah, I've heard that like they,
they maintain their nutritional value perhaps like to the same

(49:42):
degree you're a little better again that they're frozen and
they're not like. And I was like gonna say it's
like it's almost exactly the same, if not one to one.
And it's like, it's one of thosethings where like, look, listen,
your fresh vegetables could loseyour nutrients during
transportation, during whatever,during all these different
things. And it's like, because your
fresh veggies are like they pickthem fresh, they toss them in a
flash freezer or fucking whatever it is that you do now
and they're good. Like they, you keep them that

(50:04):
way. And yeah, they might be like not
as tasty and not as fresh or whatever, but like they're
expensive, right? Not everybody has the money to
buy fresh veggies every two days.
Like, and maybe you want a vegiethat's out of season, like it's
fine. So it's just one of those things
where I think like a lot of thiscomes down to people that are
over complicating it, right? And it's not their fault, but
it's like you don't have to fucking argue over, does this

(50:24):
have seed oils in it? I can't eat this.
Like, OK, if you're really worried about seed oils crashing
your testosterone, then we should make sure you're hitting
all the other fucking things first, right?
Like it's, it's just again, there's so much like, I don't
say horseshit, but like, shit, that doesn't matter.
And like, if we want to force companies to not use seed oils,
fucking fine. But you know, that means we're
going to have to cut corn subsidies to Iowa farmers and

(50:45):
you're going to have to radically re change the entire
food system, which let's be clear here, there's a lot of
problems there. But the solutions you're
proposing are are not solutions,right?
Like I in principle, I understand what RFK is getting
at, but like these things are difficult.
Like if it was just easy, it's like we snap our fingers and
people use like organic sugar and organic butter and shit.
Like that's a lot harder. Like if it was that easy,

(51:07):
somebody would have done it by now.
And that's the thing that I hate.
It's like sea oils, fucking likeleave them alone.
The fucking sorry, go ahead. You know, well, what I, what I
was saying is like, yeah, of course I barely, I like
basically never use them. I cook most of my things in like
avocado oil and like olive oil Iuse for like certain

(51:29):
applications because it has a really low smoking point.
So like it'll burn. However, like sometimes for like
high heat cooking, I might use like grapeseed oil or like, just
like a generic vegetable oil. So what I, what I was getting at
is that, you know, of course, I think, I think what you brought

(51:49):
up may, perhaps the issue is with the processed foods and,
and the quantity of, of the oil.But I think what I mean, what I,
what I've read and heard from standard nutrition experts is
that perhaps the use of seed oils when compared to an animal

(52:10):
fat could be a preferable substitution and certain
obligations to give him that like the the lesser consumption
of saturated fat will translate to less, less serum levels of
LDL cholesterol, which is highlycorrelated with atherosclerosis
and other heart conditions. So that's why I understand.

(52:33):
But like absolutely, again, I agree with you saying like, you
know, it's the it's the quantityand, and the processed foods and
well, it's like we. Shouldn't be jumping through
hoops and making people's lives impossible to do it.
Like, you know, yes, like if youneed to use it, like it's going
to happen, right, you're not going to avoid it 100% right?
It's just, it's a part of being a modern human.
So like minimize it if you can, right?

(52:54):
Like if you can use butter, great, use avocado.
I I'm a big and big proponent ofextra virgin olive oil.
If you can get authentic olive oil, it's really not super
expensive. If you want to use it, it's
wonderful. Like if you want to cook using
an air fryer, like fucking go for it.
Like it's like using another. I like it a lot yeah, it's it's
easy to clean, it's quick like, but if you want to pan fry
something like olive oil or avocado oil or coconut oil or
fucking like, you know what? Sometimes you're at the store

(53:16):
and you just need something thatyou can spray your pan with and
you don't want it to stick because sometimes it doesn't
stick correctly. Just crap the fucking canola
oil. Don't use it all the time.
Don't eat a bunch of fried food.If you need to use a little bit
of canola oil. I am going to add on some oil I.
Use sometimes for baking. Yeah, because it, but it calls
for it. But like, if you're really being
like Mr. I'm going to avoid all of it.
Fucking try pumpkin. Like you can use pumpkin to

(53:37):
replace oil. You can use Greek yogurt, you
can use a lot of substitutes. That's what I do.
Like I love brownies. I'm a sucker for chocolate.
I, I would kill a man for like agolden brown, like a perfect
brownie, right? But I can't eat them all the
time because I don't want to be fucking fat again.
So it's like, OK, well, let's try swapping them for pumpkin,
right? I like pumpkin.
Do you like chewy brownies? I like chewy brownies.
You can swap them for things like that.
Like it's, that's the thing withdiet that people don't

(53:58):
understand. It's like we can make swaps.
It's not going to be easy because it's a change to how
we're used to doing things, but it's not fucking impossible,
right? That's the part.
Like cooking is chemistry, right?
You can swap different things and how they react, it's going
to be a little different. But like, if you like pumpkin
and you like brownies, I love both of those things.
They come out spectacular. Like it seems like a win win.
Pumpkin is a vegetable and lowerin calories.
Like it's, you know, yeah. Speaking for oh, I was going to

(54:23):
say that I think the perhaps the, the, the bigger source of,
of the issue is, you know, the, the, the use of these oils in
highly processed foods that are high in calorie, high in fat,
high in sugar, and then all of these leading to negative health
outcomes. But I think the.
Quantity of people eat too, yeah.

(54:43):
Yeah, cuz like how? Much are you eating out of these
things? I think, I think that leads over
overshift, yeah. As Americans do, Americans just
over consume in terms of. Yeah, eating.
It's just like it's not even. It's not, it's not a secret like
I think the average American or like median American eats like
3800 calories a day. Like it's, you can look at the
calories over time that we consume and it's, it's a good
thing because it shows industrial like progress where

(55:05):
we have enough food to eat. It's the same thing with the
global like like hunger, right? Like ending hunger is not the
issue, right? It's getting the food where we
need to. But like now you can process
foods and leave them shelf stable for months and months and
months, which is great. People have enough food to eat.
Now the issue is we have too much food to eat and we're not
eating the things we're supposedto or should it.
And they're again, it's it's a it's a complicated issue.

(55:25):
But again, like if you're eatinga shit load of fucking Frosted
Flakes and French fries and shitfor every meal, you're probably
having too much seed oils. The issue is not the seed oil.
So the issue is what you're putting in your mouth the first
time. Because again, if you're eating
like chicken for you have like for breakfast, like I know eggs
are like $10 million. Thank you, Donald Trump.
Costco. Yeah, I mean, it's better than.
Farm places 24 pasture raised eggs.

(55:47):
It was like $8. Not bad.
Yeah, no, and it's great. I mean, like, but if you can
afford eggs still go like without having to mortgage your
house like fucking that's that'sthe point.
Like if you can do that, great. Like eggs, I think are a great
source. Start your morning with you want
oatmeal and protein. Like I think most of this comes
down to like, can you have a balanced diet?
Right, 8020 rule. Like I would I love it if we all

(56:09):
ate 100% clean all the time. Fucking sure.
But you know what, who doesn't fucking love chips?
Like who doesn't love ice cream?Like if you have a girlfriend
and she's like I want a. Sweet Treat really does not.
Eat chips. I don't think I've ever seen
this guy eat chips. And we seen.
Her have a girlfriend right? No, I don't.
Yeah, I was going. To say there's that's exactly
why, like when you have a girlfriend that changes, you
know, no, I don't myself for real.
Like I couldn't date when I was doing bodybuilding.

(56:29):
Actually, fun fact this because like, what do you do when you're
like, oh, you want to grab coffee?
It's like you have to get a black coffee.
You can't get sugar syrup. And especially like when I was
on prep, it's like you can't even do the sugar free syrup.
You're like, no, you get black coffee and that's it.
Actually, when I when I did usedto have one, I was low key
sometimes a freak because she she would often like want to go

(56:50):
get dessert and I would just be like, Nah, yeah.
You know how? Many times he's done that Max.
It's so annoying. It's like.
But now that he's super skinny, he has the pregnancy cravings.
Yeah, and I know that. So when I was bulking, like, I,
I feel like for like 2-3 years maybe, I never had like, I
never, like voluntarily bought like a dessert that was not like

(57:13):
at a birthday party. And they were like, you have to
eat this right now, right? But then when I lost 50 lbs in
my cup, I got these, like, pregnancy cravings.
Like, yeah, he's like. Each cobbler with ice cream.
Like feral and I still have them.
So like I just had like a like aprotein bar bear bell.
I was like, Oh no, we don't hearcravings because they're like

(57:34):
candy because like, they are. Well.
That's the thing. It's like.
When you get that lean, like youget cravings and like, I guess
that's the point. It's like your body is like,
holy shit, dude, I don't have enough fat to say satiate me.
You get cravings and like that'shonestly the hardest part of
prep is for 4 1/2 months waking up and doing 80 minutes of
Stairmaster and getting that lean and not having any treats.
Because if you're just cutting, it's like you can have a little
like treat here and there, a little like break and then go

(57:56):
back to it. But like, like you said, you got
the pregnancy cravings. When you're just 9% body fat,
which I'm assuming you're at, you're probably like, holy shit,
dude, I smell brownies. I'm that sounds wonderful, you
know, and it's a it's hard because like, again, you diet
that long, you get restrictive, you want those things and that's
fine. Like I'm not saying you can't
have those, but for that level of intensity, like if you really
want to be a competitive bodybuilding, that kind of

(58:18):
things, you can't really do thatand you can do it in your
offseason. You know, everybody does things
differently. Like some people do that all the
time. Some people have a lot of
snacks, but it means more cardioIf you want to diet longer or
shorter. Like you can do these things,
but it makes it a lot harder because, you know, fucking an
hour of cardio burns, I don't know, 405 hundred calories.
You can eat A1 crumble cookie in30 seconds and undo, you know,
an hour and a half of Stairmaster.

(58:39):
So it's just complicated. And then again, this, yeah.
Real quick, just want to go at Max Louise Alex really quick,
Max. So seed oils good, bad or
complicated? Complicated.
And bad. I'll put them in both categories
because they're not, they're nota good thing, but they are just
a part of life where it's like, you know what, they exist.

(59:00):
It's like it's again, I'm, I'm going to use this line that I
use for a lot of things rather than arguing about whether
they're good or bad. Should we remove all of them?
They're going to be here and it's going to be a lot harder to
just remove them. We're like this, right?
Instead of arguing about should they, should they not exist, we
just have to accept that they do, right?
It's that line from a really shitty movie that was right.
We've been arguing so much of what he can do.
We don't talk about what he should do.
So rather than arguing this hypothetical like, oh, let's get

(59:22):
rid of all the seed oils and, and, and coconut oil and it's
OK, Fuck off. Like that's not going to happen.
Do you think the fucking Iowa farmers who do all the corn oil
and seed, what soybean oil are going to get rid of that?
Like, no. So the answer is just do your
best. We'll try to pivot the industry
slowly. Like I would.
I love if we could snap our fingers and get rid of them.
Sure, fucking that'd be awesome,but it's not going to happen.
So the answer is do your best. Fucking eat your disruptis of
veggies as best you can, try to eat fruit, eat fucking lean

(59:44):
meats, exercise. And if you have a fucking thing
that has some CETA oils in it, you know what?
It's not going to kill you. Louise.
I think it's, I think it's, I think it's complicated.
I, I, I don't really know. I mean, because I've, I've heard
sides say that they might have like.

(01:00:06):
Carcinogenic qualities like I I I I heard about this, this this
study about like or I don't evenknow if it was study, it was
like a podcast because I was also like going into this rabbit
hole of like, Oh well, they wereciting a study in the in the I
just study in the, in the in thepodcast because I was going into
this rabbit hole of like, bro, are they like bad or not?
And they were like talking aboutlike how they surveyed these

(01:00:31):
like cooks who throughout their lives cooked with seed oils in
the kitchen, never smoked and a lot of them got lung cancer.
And they were like trying to create the association that the
inhalation of the seed oil fumeswas causing the lung cancer.

(01:00:54):
It's like stuff like that makes me, well, question it.
And then you you hear the talking points about like
inflammatory qualities and like whatever.
You know that one well. And I guess the thing with the
study is like, not to be Mr. I'mjust in science, but we need to
also understand there are other correlated factors.
Like you said, they were chefs, right?
Maybe it's the pans, right? You heat a hot pan, whether it's
like BPA or whatever fucking chemicals they put in the pan

(01:01:16):
that you're then inhaling. You're inhaling a lot of things.
And like, there's a lot of factors that we can't account
for. Like you said, they don't smoke
right? Yeah, that's that's what right.
Like where? They were.
Was there something in their environment?
Like if they're all in the same kitchen, could it be some other
corollary that I don't know how?The I don't know how the study
was was like. When you sear me that she can
smoke too, you know, exactly right.

(01:01:36):
When I inhale that, like, you know, I start coughing and it's
a lot. Absolutely.
Well, and that's that's The thing is like, are they
completely accurate? Like maybe and our cedar oils
have you? Yeah, fucking probably.
Are they inflammatory? Yes.
And we know that, but like, again, who cares?
We live in a world where they'reeverywhere.
And if you try to avoid them, you're going to be going fucking
insane. So I'd rather you just do your

(01:01:58):
best to avoid them. And if it happens, it happens,
minimize it, right? Minimize the damage.
Like it's like talking to a guy who smokes cigarettes, right?
I don't love that. I can't force you to stop, but
you know what? Try to keep it to a minimum,
right? It, it, it, it's, it's the best
possible course of action instead of just saying no seed
oils ever. Like I, I wish we could do that,
but that's not going to happen. So in the real world, do your
best, minimize the shit that hasthem.

(01:02:18):
If you can get something like cooked with oil and you're not
going to be a pain in the ass toeverybody around you, fucking do
it man. Yeah.
Well then, yeah. So, so I would, I would say like
the hierarchy might go like, youknow, high quality unsaturated
fats like olive oil and like an avocado oil.
And then where I, I, you know, everything you've said raises

(01:02:40):
questions about the the health aspects of of seed oils.
But then like what are we replacing that with?
Are we going to increase our consumption of saturated fat?
And if so, will that lead to earlier onset death due to
increased serum levels of LDL? But then there are studies or no

(01:03:01):
not I don't even studies but like I hear people that are like
in the Maha movement and all this citing that like the
initial correlation between LDL cholesterol and heart disease
was through studies Co opted by the sugar industry to to divert

(01:03:23):
fat consumption to sugar consumption by making the
associate. I think they're right about
that. Actually.
I was going to say I think they're correct.
Yeah. Because I was going to say
actually it was one of those things where like it, you look
at trends in dieting, and I think they're actually correct
about that one because there wasthe whole thing of like milk,
right? Where they're like, oh, everyone
has to drink milk. And you're like, why?
Because the US government boughtmilk.
And like, again, a lot of these things were correct.
Like the whole like, oh, no fats, right?

(01:03:44):
You remember how, like, every food package in the 90s was
like, oh, it's low fat, Low fat.It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. But they're loading it up with
sugar to replace it. And like, now we know sugar is
really bad, right? And now people are like, oh, but
artificial sugars, It's like, dude, fucking what do you want?
Like, do you want organic sugars?
Do you want fake sugars? Do you want the shit you like?
Again, there is no perfect answer and I'm going to go back
to it in the hierarchy of needs,right?

(01:04:04):
If you're cutting out all the fat in your diet, like that's
bad, right? If you're cutting out all the
sugars, like that's probably badbecause you're not going to do
that forever. And the same thing like I'm I'm
pretty sure that is correct. Like the food industry really
did push the like low fat stuff because of no sugar.
So again, again, higher give needs. 90% of this is just try
to eat more veggies, try to eat more clean meat, try to eat like
fucking probiotic thing like yogurt and sauerkraut and

(01:04:27):
fucking protein shakes and exercise and sleep well.
Like it's like that's 90% of thebattle.
The fucking if you're already, your health is in good shape,
right? You, you exercise, you're a
healthy body weight. I don't think you're LDL is
going to be a big deal if you'rehealthy body weight, right?
I think the corollary is more ifyou're already overweight and
you're like 300 lbs, the bigger question is you're already
calling your arteries because ofwhat you're eating, not because

(01:04:48):
of all the seed oils, right? If we dropped you to a healthy
BMI, anywhere between 18 to like25 and you started doing cardio
and exercising and eating mostlyclean food, I'm going to go out
on the mirror and say that that would abate most of the issues.
OK. Yeah.
But what I was getting at is like that they're also
questioning the relationship of like high LDL and heart disease

(01:05:10):
and I just don't I would assume.It's correlated, No, Because
it's like if it's blocking your,you know, like blood vessels and
corollaries like, wouldn't that kind of Yeah.
But like they're, they're putting that into question.
And that's what, what, why they say like though, like you should
actually consume more tallow, more butter and cook with that.
Cause like the LDL is not going to lead to anything.

(01:05:31):
Well, well. Yeah.
And it's like there's like the different types of cholesterol.
Yeah, but. I feel like in, in, in the
medical community community and then nutritional community, like
this is one of the primary, likemost widely cited associations
and they're, you know, bringing doubt to that.
And like there's no like unifiedsource of information or like,

(01:05:53):
you know, because like, I don't know, the information comments
is break broken down with like social media, everyone has and
there's like benefits to that. But then you have, like, all
these different pieces of information, you don't really
know who to trust. But that's an entirely other
issue. But yeah, in short, I would say
like it's complicated, OK? Next episode is institutional

(01:06:14):
trust and public health breakdown we.
Actually just cover that in our class too.
That's actually insane. We talked about like there's a
book, there's Max you would love.
You would love the class we're taking right now.
I would. I would.
Yeah. OK, now and then Alex also said
that's all the. Time that we have for today,
folks, to let everyone go today.OK, CUFCKFC Lakers in five.

(01:06:39):
Have a good day everybody. You heard the man.
Celtics in six Celtics. In eight Celtics, it's not
happening The Lakers. Look at LeBron Forever for Life
banner. Banner 19 coming.
He's Tatum's gonna whoop Lucas ass again.
Even even like saying that they make it.
I don't know. We might lose to the cows.
I don't know. Well, I think you guys heard a

(01:07:01):
lot of valuable information today.
Thank you Max for being our bodybuilder expert Luis and Alex
thank you for joining us Co host.
I will link all their social medias down in the comments go
check out Max's photos on his Instagram and glaze him tell him
that belay sent you there. But thank you everyone.
We have some really exciting episodes coming up soon.
Max and I are actually gonna hopoff this in the film an episode
I think with the biggest guests we've ever had.

(01:07:23):
So we're both really excited forthat.
Thank you for all the support and like comment.
Let us know if you guys want us to talk about anything else.
And if you like these health hypes videos, we will do more of
them. Give us some topics and we'll
engage with you guys. Thank you everybody.
Bye, bye. Thank you.

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