August 6, 2025 • 33 mins
Jamie M. Lima and Ed Vargo explore taking control of finances after divorce, focusing on power imbalances and cultural barriers. They outline steps for understanding assets, discuss the financial industry's approach to women, and examine how emotions affect financial decisions. The episode covers gender differences in planning, the importance of financial literacy for families, and introduces EnlightenHER, a program to boost women's financial knowledge. Strategies for building financial momentum are also shared, offering listeners valuable resources for their journey.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of broke up,not broken.
(00:03):
I'm your host, Jamie Leva and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions, where we help
people prepare for, navigate, and recoverfinancially from divorce.
This pod podcast is your one stop shop formastering your life and your finances
throughout the entire divorce process.
Today's guest is Ed Vargo, cofounder and CEO ofBurning River Advisory Group in Enlighten Her,
(00:25):
a community dedicated to financial mentorshipfor women.
With more than twenty years of experience inthe financial services industry, Ed specializes
in helping women navigate major life,transitions like divorce, widowhood, college
funding, and retirement, all with personalized,empowering financial planning behind it.
Ed's passion for this work is deeply personal.
(00:47):
After his own mother lost custody of herchildren following a divorce due to financial
instability, Ed made it his life's mission toensure that no woman has to go through that
same experience on their own.
He's now the proud father of five, this iscrazy, five financially savvy daughters.
Amazing work there, Ed.
In an effort to equip women with the tools theyneed to thrive, he's done such an amazing job
(01:10):
with them.
Today, we're gonna talk about how to takecontrol of your finances after divorce and how
to do that without fear.
So grab a cup of coffee or your beverage ofchoice, buckle up, and let's once again get you
personally and financially empowered.
Ed, so great to have you with us today, man.
Yeah.
Thanks for having me.
So, we've been in the business almost the sameamount of time.
(01:31):
So we're talking about forty years between thetwo of us.
I just I just hit my twenty year mark a couplemonths ago.
It sounds like you're in rough started roughlythe same time.
What an experience it's been.
But I I I I I want I wanna go back to a couplethings.
Number one, first off, man, like, girls, thatis bananas.
You are a saint.
My we have a blended family of five childrenourselves, and we have a couple boys sprinkled
(01:55):
in there.
And that's that's more that's difficult enough.
But five girls, man, kudos to you.
But so let's let's talk a little bit about thatcomment that you made and and I made in in the
lead up to this this call, each of this callabout the experience you had watching your
mother go through some pretty challengingfinancial times, and I it sounds like that's
kind of what propelled you into doing the workyou do and and really having to focus on women
(02:18):
and helping them become financially stable.
Yeah.
You hit the head on on both nails there.
It's kinda like the best of times, the worst oftimes.
And with my daughters, you know, there's fiveof them, and I think that as being the best of
times.
And preceding that, of course, was my mother'sexperience.
And as you mentioned in the intro is that, youknow, my my mother had to give up custody of us
(02:39):
four kids when she went through her divorceback when I was probably nine or 10 years old.
And that's really where my passion comes from.
It's like looking at that experience and beinga part of that experience in, of course, a very
different way than my mother went through andtrying to make sure that women, in particular,
(02:59):
never have to go through that experience againlike my mom did.
Had I been around or had this happened today,and if that was a woman who came to us with
that situation, her outcomes would be very,very different than what my mother's was.
And so, yeah, these these are big life issues,and they have long tentacles over time.
(03:22):
And so we're just trying to put people, womenin particular, in the best possible position
post divorce as we possibly can.
Yeah.
Well, I appreciate the work that you do.
That that's for sure.
The it just it just everything you describedabout your situation growing up, I mean, I was
probably seven or eight years old when myparents decided to get a divorce.
I talk about this all the time on the podcast,so you've probably heard me say this.
(03:44):
But, you know, it it's it was like an left anindelible imprint in my in my life for sure as
it did as it did with you.
It's effectively what propelled both of us, youknow, into doing the work that we do.
I remember, you know, like, my parents wereworking multiple jobs, just trying to keep
thing you know, keep a roof over our heads, andit was a struggle.
And so I I guess on your side and and like,where where do you feel the downfall was?
(04:09):
Was it just a matter of, like, she becausethere's no real financial education out there.
Right?
I mean, like, especially, you know, forty yearsago, there's really there's really no good
financial education.
And do you think it stemmed from that, or werethere other things that were involved that
might have been at play?
Yeah.
Well, the world was very different forty yearsago than it is today for in a lot of ways.
And financial education was not where it's attoday, although there are still major barriers
(04:34):
or discrepancies, gaps when it comes tofinancial knowledge today.
My mom's situation was really born out of twothings.
One is she was an immigrant from South Korea,had never written a language, but couldn't
read, couldn't write English, couldn't drive.
And so there was a huge language barrier andjust cultural barrier that she was facing.
And so my father was at a major advantage whenit came to those negotiations.
(04:58):
I mean, she just didn't know what she didn'tknow.
And she wasn't in a position to be able to getthe resources she needed.
So that world doesn't exist in that way today,of course, with the Internet and all kinds of
other abilities to get information.
Fortunately, for most folks today, they're muchcloser to getting the information they need,
but there's still big gaps.
(05:20):
There's still power.
It was a power play in essence.
And and I'm not saying this in this disparagingway towards my father.
Divorce negotiations are what they are, andthey often don't, go the way you'd want them to
go.
But there is still a big power imbalance inrelationships, and that's really what that was.
It was a power imbalance, in that case, bornout of a cultural barrier and a language
(05:43):
barrier.
But today, I mean, there are still majorimbalances, whether it's a money imbalance, a
power imbalance from just personality types,etcetera.
And the idea is to try and level the playingfield with those imbalances.
And and I'm sure you see this all the time inyour practice and in your work in the divorce
space, is trying to help those who can'tadvocate for themselves find a way to do so,
(06:06):
whether it's through knowledge, just being ableto stand up to the party, finding the right
partners and professionals to partner with.
It's really about getting on an even playingfield so you can try to get to an equitable
outcome versus being steamrolled by the otherside.
What what do you think are the first financialsteps a woman should take, you know, to try to
regain some of that control back and and, youknow, to give themselves confidence as they're
(06:32):
going through this experience, not not onlywhile they're going through the divorce
experience, but maybe even on the tail end ofit when they're trying to figure out their next
steps.
What are some of those steps that you've seenwork well?
Yeah.
Step one is always you have to know what youown, what you own and what you owe.
And there's in in many households still today,there is a a division of labor when it comes to
(06:54):
the personal finances.
And that works, that's very common inrelationships, of course.
I mean, you both don't do equal chores aroundthe house, so to speak.
Right?
You divide up the labor depending upon eitherability, interest, whatever the case may be.
And so money in many households that might bebroken up, whereas the from a stereotypical
(07:16):
standpoint, maybe the the wife handles the dayto day purchases, sort of the wallet, buying
groceries or paying the bills, that kind ofstuff.
And then the husband might handle the bigpicture items like the investments and taxes
and otherwise.
And that works in a relationship that worksjust fine.
But when you go through a divorce process, itdoesn't work.
(07:37):
There's a major imbalance because when you'retalking about splitting of assets, property,
and the like, if the husband has all theknowledge and information and understanding
around those topics, and those are the thingsthat are being split in a divorce, the wife
oftentimes is at a disadvantage because shedoesn't know where those things are.
She's not familiar with them.
And so there oftentimes is a big gap right fromthe start in terms of the woman understanding
(08:05):
where's where's everything at.
Like, I don't she she might say, don't evenknow what we have.
And that's not only true of women.
I mean, that happens in a lot of cases wherepeople don't really know where their money's
at.
But in particular, it does seem to be that themen handle the big picture items of finance
more so than the women do.
So I would start with, again, knowing what youown and what you owe as a starting point, And
(08:30):
then you really need to understand what it isthat you own.
And if you don't, you need to get help.
Find the right professionals who can guide youand speak to you in the way that you need to be
spoken to so you understand what these itemsare.
And then that's gonna start to put you on levelground when it comes to negotiating in the the
(08:50):
divorce settlement process.
Yeah.
One one of the things you just mentioned there,it it resonated with me with with, you know,
speak speak the way you're supposed to bespoken to.
Right?
And it's we see that.
And and we've I worked at big name firms, andwhen you and I have been both both, you know,
doing this work for twenty years, so youprobably have some of the same experiences
where, like, there's the old, like, you know,the the the the the financial adviser that's
(09:15):
been doing this work for fifty years, sittingin the behind the mahogany desk and, like,
talking down to you.
Like, I just I had that that vision in my headwhen you when you mentioned those those words.
Like and that may and in some cases, I thinkthat's probably what a lot of women feel like
is gonna happen if they reach out and get thehelp.
Thankfully, dudes like us exist and and a lotof women that do this work as well that that
(09:36):
are don't don't take that approach.
I wonder if I wonder if some in some ways,that's what kind of hinders people in general
just reaching out for to get help because theythink that, you know, someone like us is gonna
come and talk down to them and tell them, youknow, poke holes in everything that they're
doing and tell them, like, they should be doingthis and they shouldn't be doing that and all
the other stuff.
And that's not really it.
Right?
It's all about coaching and and and and reallybeing there to support people through this
(09:57):
through this experience.
Sure.
Well, it's no secret that the financialservices industry isn't female friendly.
I don't I'm not saying that it's misogynistic.
I don't think that's true at all.
I just think that the typical financial adviseris used to talking and working with men.
Okay?
And there's nothing wrong with that.
That's how the industry grew up.
I mean, we both went through coaching andtraining programs, led by men.
(10:21):
The industry has been dominated by menhistorically because that's who had the money.
And, of course, we live in a different worldtoday, but those those pathways that have been
built, they remain.
And so there is a challenge in our industry.
Again, I'm sure you see this all the time, inthat we're trained and taught to work with men.
(10:42):
And so when we try to take that training, whichworks very well, by the way, in reaching men,
and we try to massage it or just alter it a bitto make it fit for how women think, it doesn't
really work.
It just misses the mark.
And because women and men engage with moneyvery differently, and so it is a barrier when
(11:03):
you're a woman trying to get information.
You're trying to do the right thing.
You do the Google search.
You read all the different things about whatsteps should you take to hire a financial
professional.
In the divorce arena, might say, okay.
Let's find a CDFA, that's certified divorcefinancial analyst.
Right?
There aren't many of us out there, but go findthem.
And then you do that, and if that person isn'tused to working with women and particularly
(11:27):
women going through a crisis like divorce, theexperience usually falls flat.
And it's intimidating to begin with.
Again, women have a tendency to not like toengage with money, at least more less so than
men traditionally do.
And then when you actually do that and youreach out and you do all the right things and
it falls flat, then what do you do?
(11:48):
You kind of throw up your hands or you talk toyour your girlfriends and they have the same
experience, it can be very frustrating and itjust doesn't lead to getting the advice and the
information you need, which is a real problemand it's part of the reason that I'm probably
why you have Allegiant Divorce as a separateentity, right, to be able to talk that and to
(12:11):
get that information out into the world.
I don't want to put words in your mouth oranything, but we started Enlighten Her for that
same reason is because we needed broader way toto reach more women where they are today versus
the traditional financial model.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
I wanna come back to EnlightenHER in just asecond because I have some questions on on that
(12:31):
program and what you've done, the work thatyou're doing there.
But one but before I forget because I'm old, Iwanna ask this question about the because
you're we're we're still stick on the on thethe women here and and, you know, the
experiences that they have, and a lot of it'semotional too.
Right?
I mean, let's just let's just, you know, let'sjust let's just call it what it is.
Right?
Because women tend to be more emotional thanmen when it comes to to some of these some of
(12:56):
these things.
So, you know, you've you've said before thatmoney is never just about numbers.
There are some emotions, and there there arestrong held beliefs that are that impact our
decision making, especially with a lot of thewomen that you work with.
So how do those how do some of, like, the oldstories and all all the experiences that we've
had, especially especially from divorce, howare they how have you seen them hold women back
(13:19):
in actually taking specific financial action?
Well, there's no doubt that money is emotionalregardless.
I mean, it we we sort of think of it or we'dlike to think of it as this this, inert neutral
item, but people have fear when it comes tomoney.
That's that's an emotion.
Right?
They have a lack of confidence.
(13:40):
They're intimidated by it.
And so money in and of itself is emotionemotional.
And then you add in the element of divorce.
But even even if you're not going throughdivorce, you know, your history is with your
history with money matters.
And so it's you've probably heard this talkedabout, as it's sort of the invisible money
scripts or these this dialogue, this sort ofsubconscious dialogue that you have with
(14:04):
yourself that prevents you from moving forwardwith money in a certain way even though you may
not know it.
You know?
So I was talking to a family member not thatlong ago, and, you know, he's in retirement,
and he's done a great job, an amazing job ofsaving over time, investing, being frugal with
his spending.
And he's at a place right now where he couldspend way more than he's spending.
(14:27):
Right?
He's done the hard work, and so I'm trying toget him to realize that and go spend his money.
You know?
And I know he doesn't want to be the richestperson in the graveyard.
That's not what motivates him, but he can't gethimself to spend money.
That's and he's there's no reason to befearful.
I mean, he has by every objective measure, theguy is gonna die with a ton of money.
(14:51):
You know?
Mhmm.
And even if he doubled or tripled his spendingevery year for the rest of his life, he's still
going to die with more than he ever needs.
And yet, he can't move forward with it.
You know?
So that's part of the challenge isunderstanding where are your biases when it
comes to money.
What are the things that are holding you back?
It has nothing to do with intelligence or even,in many cases, education like traditional
(15:12):
financial education because we can go throughthe concepts with clients.
Yet, if they don't move forward, that's abehavioral piece.
And so being able to tap in and talk aboutmoney in the way that women think about money,
again, coming back to how women and and menthink about money differently, is that men have
to be tend to be a bit more tangible.
(15:33):
Like, it's it's good enough for a lot of guysto go to them and say, hey.
Your your investments are beating the marketby, you know, 20 basis points or by 2% or 3%.
Mhmm.
That resonates with men.
It's like, great.
I have more money.
I'm doing better than the benchmark.
Awesome.
If I say that to a woman, she's gonna be like,yeah.
Great.
So what?
That doesn't matter to her.
What matters is that she's like, okay.
(15:54):
What what does that mean for my life?
What does that 2% equate in terms of what I cando in my life?
Am I gonna be able to travel more?
Am I gonna be able to retire earlier?
Can I educate my kids better?
Am I gonna be able to do things for others inmy family?
It's different.
You know?
And so that's one of the challenges is that ourindustry, we talk about the same subject, this
(16:15):
2% higher rate of return than the stock market,you have to use very different words and put
into a very different context when you'retalking to a a man and a woman.
Mhmm.
So and I I don't think a lot of our industryreally gets that, certainly not in the way that
is enabling them to connect with women in a waythat women wanna be connected with.
One of the things that I see all the time inworking with women that are going through
(16:39):
divorce, and I I can't I I've been doing thiswork for a long time, and can't I can't
remember the last time a gentleman asked methis, but this comes from women a lot.
And then one of the questions is, can I keepthe house?
Right?
And and mainly what they're asking is, like,are we gonna be okay?
What is my lifestyle gonna look like?
Any any thoughts on that?
Sure.
I mean, that's very common.
I had a conversation just yesterday with thewoman, and she said, I would like my I like my
(17:05):
son to have stability.
I'd like him to remain in the same neighborhoodwith the same kids.
And I don't say this in this disparaging way,but I've never heard that from the guy.
Yeah.
And I think guys think about the house more ofas an asset and that that's an interchangeable
asset.
If I don't live in this house, can live inanother house.
And a woman thinks more broadly about it.
(17:25):
She's thinking about not the house as an asset.
She's thinking about it as the place where herchildren live.
Yeah.
And it's very different.
And so on paper, that asset might look the sameas a four zero one k plan or money sitting in
cash.
And to the court system, maybe it looks thesame, but you and I both know that they're not
the same.
Certainly not in terms of its value as anasset.
(17:47):
But take that aside, they're different becauseyou can't live in your four zero one ks plan.
Right?
So it is very different and that's why I thinkgetting the right knowledge and the right
information in the right context is soimportant.
Because on paper, a lot of these things thesethings can look the same, but they they are
very different in the real world where youwhere you live and and breathe.
(18:11):
Let let's dive into that a little bit because Ifor the people that are listening that don't
really understand that concept, can you give megive me an example?
Right?
So, like, we're talking about tax situationsand, you know, the the the tax taxation of
different accounts.
Right?
Maybe peel back the onion around that a little
Sure.
So in a divorce process, a lot of times whatyou're looking at is trying to find a fair
settlement.
And let's just say a fair settlement is $50.50.
(18:34):
Half of all of the assets, one half goes to thehusband, the other half goes to the wife.
And then they look at the types of assets thatyou own.
So you have a house, and let's say the house isworth $500,000 free and clear.
And then you have a four zero one k plan that'sworth $500,000 free and clear.
So on paper, those two assets are equal.
They're both worth $500,000 right now.
(18:56):
If you sold all the assets in the and we'regonna make it even simpler.
No tax implications from this at all.
So they're exactly the same.
If you sell both, you you're both sitting therewith $500,000.
But in the real world, that's not how it works.
Right?
Because we know or I shouldn't say we know, butbecause that four zero one k plan is invested,
and let's say it's invested in the stockmarket, which has a potential for growth of the
(19:20):
long term average in the stock market's, say,10%.
So that asset is going to grow and it's goingto double approximately every seven years.
And the asset in the home, maybe it grows by 4%a year.
Okay?
And so it's going to grow much more slowly.
And so from an asset standpoint today, they'reboth the same.
But if you hold the s both each of those assetsfor twenty years, the four zero one k plan is
(19:43):
gonna be worth way more money than the than thehouse.
And that's a very simple level of analyses, butit just if you're looking at the totality of
someone's life and planning for their entirelife and not just here and now, you would
evaluate those two assets very differently.
You would not say, oh, it doesn't matter whichone you take.
(20:05):
You want the house?
Take the house.
It's fine.
You have a place to live.
You have security.
And this is what the guys do.
They're like, oh, yeah.
Take the house.
You should have the house.
They put on their, you know, their altruistichat, and they say, oh, I think you should have
the house.
Keep the kid there.
Have stability.
You want the house.
Great.
And secretly, he's like, yeah.
I don't want that house.
I want the $500,000 four zero one k plan that'sgonna double and triple much faster than that
(20:29):
home will.
And so I say that in a negative way and adisparaging way.
So maybe not all guys are like that, but someare.
And even if you aren't, you you definitelyshould know, you know, what the value of that
house is not just today but down the road.
And that's one small, small example of whenyou're getting into the the minutiae of divorce
and divorce settlement, why knowing not knowingwhat you don't know can really hurt you.
(20:54):
Absolutely.
It's all about financial literacy.
Right?
And then this is this is stuff that they don'tteach you in school and why we're gonna be
gainfully employed for the foreseeable future.
And as far, I mean, as far as literacy goes, Imean, you've done an amazing job, sounds like,
with with your daughters.
What are some of the practical tips thatlisteners that do have kids that want to, you
(21:16):
know, enlighten them and and and give them somefinancial literacy themselves?
And and what are the what would you say to themor some of the some of the early things that
you would want them to pass along to their totheir own children.
Sure.
I mean, probably what they've heard all along,start young.
Right?
The the power of compound interest works foryou when you're young.
(21:39):
And so if you could show that or demonstratethat to them, run through some numbers with
them and just say, look.
I mean, I'll I'll give an example what I didwith my girls.
Now you don't have to be a financial adviser todo this.
So I went into sec.gov.
The SEC's website.
If you go to sec.gov, there's a compoundinterest calculator there.
Very simple, very easy to use, plug in a coupleof numbers.
(22:01):
And I took my first, my oldest daughter whenshe was 16.
I said, hey, Maddie, let me walk you throughthis.
And so I went in.
I started playing with this calculator.
And I said, hey.
Look if we put in $250 a year a year, not amonth, a year starting now until you were 65.
Look at and we're just running at 8% orwhatever, and that's a lower interest rate
(22:21):
versus historical numbers.
You can play with the numbers yourself.
I said, just take a look at what $250 a monthlooks a year looks like if we started this
today.
And it's like some crazy big number.
Right?
So what I did was is we we did this together.
She punch punched in the numbers.
It was simple.
She could graphically see this chart, and itshowed it demonstrated to her.
(22:42):
She didn't have to believe me.
We went to this government website, shebelieved that, and it has all this money.
And then we started playing.
So what if we started out by putting a $100 amonth and maybe you took some of your birthday
money and you you seeded it with, like, I don'tknow, maybe at $500 or $200, whatever.
Again, you get to plug in these numbers.
And they get to actually see the growth ofthose investments over time.
(23:03):
And then I just remember her saying like shewas, like, kind of, like, in awe of this, like,
stunned.
And she's like, well, why wouldn't everybody dothis?
And I was like, oh, yeah.
I got this one.
Right?
Just set the hook.
Why wouldn't everybody do this?
Right?
And when you look at it from that honest andnaive I wouldn't say naive, but innocent lens,
(23:24):
yeah, why wouldn't everybody do this?
Well, because they don't really know.
I mean, I think most people or many people,certainly a lot more than are doing it today,
could carve out $250 a year in some type of anaccount, and you can pick the the the
appropriate account and get started today.
And then when you do that, you just let it run.
(23:45):
It just it just grows and grows and grows.
You know?
And so that's a a simple and easy thing and avisual thing for children.
I've done that with some of our clients'children, and it's it always works really,
really well.
You get them young.
You're not lecturing.
You're just educating them.
I think that's one of the most importantthings, getting started early.
(24:05):
And then as a part of getting started early, Ithink if you I think parents should just model
the behavior they wanna see in their kids.
I think we we understand this when it comes toliving our lives.
So if you have certain values you want yourchildren to have and you want to instill those
values, well, you should probably live thosevalues.
Right?
It's a lot easier to say, hey.
This is what we do here.
(24:25):
And consequently, here's what we don't do.
When it comes to money, it's the same thing.
So I think we should talk about money in theopen.
If that's something that's of value, think itis.
To me, it is it is a value.
Not that every subject has to be on the table.
Talk about money in front of them.
Talk about money in a positive way.
If you want them to to value a dollar, thendon't give them an allowance.
(24:48):
Make them earn that allowance.
Even if they have to do almost nothing to getthe money, they need to equate work with
payment.
Right?
You just give them money, then it's that doesthat's not how it works in the real world.
Nobody just gets money, so you have to work forit.
So just do some menial tasks around the house,get the money, and then let them use their own
money to buy stuff that maybe the householdshouldn't buy.
(25:10):
So we'll go to movies.
You know, we like to go to the movies a lot,and I'll buy so dad's bringing for popcorn and
a soda.
But, you know, it's all kinds of other candycandies and concessions there.
I'm not buying that.
But if they have their own money and they wannause it, okay.
Use it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It teaches them the value of a dollar.
So really three things.
(25:31):
I would I would compound interest.
I'd show them that SEC calculator.
I would model good behavior, the behavior youwant, start those conversations early, and then
give them dollars of their own and tie it tosome sort of work so they understand that those
two go hand in hand.
It's not rocket science.
Right?
I mean, people I I think people think overthinkit and they get so overwhelmed.
(25:52):
And what do I do?
And how do I put them on the right track?
And I have to do this thing and that thing.
And and even as financial professionals, wejust it's just very easy.
Just keep it super simple.
Right?
You don't need to overcomplicate it.
And and we did we did a very, very similarsimilar strategy with with, our kids as well.
You know, we had Roth IRAs as soon as they hadtheir first, you know, the first we let them
(26:13):
work for a year and spend the money that theyearned for that first year.
Then after that first year, they had tocontribute to their Roth IRAs, and and it's
just just great lessons for them to learn alongthe way.
So thanks for sharing that, man.
Tell me about I wanna I wanna come back tothis.
I I promise I didn't forget.
EnlightenHER.
What's tell me about EnlightenHER and and wherethat came from and what you guys are doing
(26:34):
there.
Sure.
Well, I appreciate you asking.
EnlightenHER is a women's first financialeducation company, very succinct, and that's
really what we're about.
We're we recognize that there's a big gap interms of the financial literacy of women in
general.
I mean, there's a big gap in financial literacyfor men and women.
Let's just be upfront about that.
But the gap is larger for women than it is formen.
(26:56):
And and so when we started looking at I reallystarted looking at my girls and why they
interact with money differently than their peergroup because I can see how their friends
interact.
They're they have some family members that areof the same age, extended family that think
about money very differently.
And the difference is is that they have afinancial adviser as a as a father.
(27:18):
My kids do, and the other ones don't.
And it's not like I'm sitting down with themgoing at a chalkboard and and doing all these
complicated formulas.
I did exactly what I told you a second ago.
We've modeled good behavior.
I walked them through compound interest stuff,and then I give them their own money, or I make
them earn their own money in the household.
(27:38):
It's just basic knowledge, really.
It's just basic financial literacy.
And so if we really wanna see a change, this ismy viewpoint.
It's not the only viewpoint, but this is myperspective.
My thought is if we can get the women who arejust entering the workforce, this is where the
(27:58):
genesis of the idea started.
Really, I wanted to be able to to talk to themoms of these women, quite frankly, because I
don't think the the younger generation justgetting started, they they may be interested,
they may not, but the moms care about theirkids.
They care about their daughters.
And so the idea was, well, can we provide somefinancial literacy?
Maybe we can't go direct to the consumer likelike to like my girl's age, early twenties.
(28:23):
Maybe that's a little early.
Although, thoughts are changing on that alittle bit.
Maybe we can start to reach the mothers who canthen they've recognized the mistakes they've
made over time.
I've heard this a lot.
Like, oh, I wish I could go back and do it allover again.
Well, you sort of have a chance.
You can do that for your children.
And so if you could become a conduit tofinancial knowledge and understanding and
(28:44):
perspective for your children, then that'sgonna be able to maybe that's enough to get
people started.
Because it all it's about getting started withthis financial knowledge early in life and have
that carry forward because if we could get thisnext generation to take hold, then they can
teach their children and go outward to theirpeer group.
(29:05):
So long story short, EnlightenHER is thiswomen's first financial education company where
where out there, our mission is just to get asmuch financial information in the hands of in
women of women in the way that women want theinformation.
So it's built from the ground up for how womenthink about money, what is the purpose of this
money, not about making the most money, tyingin with, the emotions around money.
(29:29):
Again, men have emotions around money and womendo, so we're just leaning into the the emotions
that women tend to have around money in theirway.
And, yeah, the idea is is quite simple.
It's just to educate and then hopefully have asea change for not just their generation but
for but for generations thereafter.
If we really wanna fix the problem, we can'tjust fix it, you know, one client at a time.
(29:50):
We wanna do it in a much broader scale.
Yeah.
And then you get that multiplier effect andthen on and on and on.
Right?
So it's a generational thing.
I love it, man.
I always I always ask this question when we'regetting ready to wrap.
So let me ask you the same question I askeverybody else.
This is what I call the carte blanche segmentof our of our conversation today.
Is there anything that I I should have askedthat I didn't ask or anything you wanna share
(30:12):
with our listeners that would be important forthem to know that we haven't covered today?
Well, we talked about a lot of different thingsand a lot of different levels, whether it's
divorce or just kids and women in finance ingeneral.
I think I would just harken back to what yousaid earlier.
A lot of the financial advice or what peoplethink the financial advice or knowledge they
(30:36):
should have is much simpler than they think.
I think getting started is much, much easierand a lot less intimidating and much smaller
than people think.
They think it's good because the world offinance is large.
It's wide and it's deep and it's verycomplicated, but not for everybody and not for
most and not if you're getting started.
If you're getting started, it is just verysimple.
(30:58):
Maybe you just need to save a couple ofdollars.
Right?
Because at the end of day, the fundamentals areyou need to save some money, save slash invest
some money, not run up debt.
Those are the kind of the basics.
I everybody kind of knows that.
And yet they get hung up on, well, what's thebest way to pay off debt or what's the best way
to save?
Just start.
Start by saving some money into a separate bankaccount somewhere and then take the next step
(31:24):
from there.
So I just really think that if we could get outof our own heads and not try and pick the
perfect plan, not find the perfect solution,just find a solution, a foot in the door, do
something that's positive, save a couple ofdollars on a regular basis, pay down the debt,
pay extra on this, or don't run up a creditcard.
If you just start there and then you learn alittle bit in that process and then you take
(31:48):
the next step.
But you can't just keep pushing this stuff off.
I mean, that's the thing.
I think a lot of people just push off thisdecision, whatever that decision is.
I'll get to it later.
I'm so busy.
I don't know anything.
And it's that that little story we tellourselves that makes it okay to not engage and
have that quote unquote bad behavior.
(32:08):
So hopefully that answers your question.
I don't know if it does.
But Oh, absolutely, man.
And and it's just all about getting momentum.
Right?
You just take one you take one step forward.
You do one small little task, and it turns intothe a bit you know, a bigger situation.
You get that snowball effect, and you get themomentum.
And the next thing you know, you're sitting ina great spot.
I mean, I've seen people, you know, wipe outcredit card debt and, you know, buy the home
(32:31):
that they've, you know, always dreamed about orput, you know, little Johnny, little Susie
through college, all those things simply bytaking that first step.
So I I couldn't agree more, man.
Thanks.
Thanks, Eds.
Thanks so much for for being here with ustoday, for bringing your deep expertise, and
frankly, even deeper empathy that you have forpeople to our episodes.
So your story, your family legacy, your missionwith enlighten her are incredibly powerful
(32:55):
reminders that financial empowerment is both apersonal and a generational gift.
You can connect with Ed through Burning RiverAdvisory Group or join the enlighten her
community to access mentorship, resources, andplanning tools that we're gonna make sure are
all linked in the show notes.
And if you're currently walking through thestorm of divorce, Allegiant Divorce Solutions
is here to help you move from confusion toclarity.
(33:16):
Visit us at allegiantds.com.
Don't forget to subscribe to more episodes ofBroke Up Not Broken for more conversations just
like this that blend financial guidance withemotional strength.
Until next time.
Welcome back to another episode of broke up,not broken.
(00:03):
I'm your host, Jamie Leva and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions, where we help
people prepare for, navigate, and recoverfinancially from divorce.
This pod podcast is your one stop shop formastering your life and your finances
throughout the entire divorce process.
Today's guest is Ed Vargo, cofounder and CEO ofBurning River Advisory Group in Enlighten Her,
(00:25):
a community dedicated to financial mentorshipfor women.
With more than twenty years of experience inthe financial services industry, Ed specializes
in helping women navigate major life,transitions like divorce, widowhood, college
funding, and retirement, all with personalized,empowering financial planning behind it.
Ed's passion for this work is deeply personal.
(00:47):
After his own mother lost custody of herchildren following a divorce due to financial
instability, Ed made it his life's mission toensure that no woman has to go through that
same experience on their own.
He's now the proud father of five, this iscrazy, five financially savvy daughters.
Amazing work there, Ed.
In an effort to equip women with the tools theyneed to thrive, he's done such an amazing job
(01:10):
with them.
Today, we're gonna talk about how to takecontrol of your finances after divorce and how
to do that without fear.
So grab a cup of coffee or your beverage ofchoice, buckle up, and let's once again get you
personally and financially empowered.
Ed, so great to have you with us today, man.
Yeah.
Thanks for having me.
So, we've been in the business almost the sameamount of time.
(01:31):
So we're talking about forty years between thetwo of us.
I just I just hit my twenty year mark a couplemonths ago.
It sounds like you're in rough started roughlythe same time.
What an experience it's been.
But I I I I I want I wanna go back to a couplethings.
Number one, first off, man, like, girls, thatis bananas.
You are a saint.
My we have a blended family of five childrenourselves, and we have a couple boys sprinkled
(01:55):
in there.
And that's that's more that's difficult enough.
But five girls, man, kudos to you.
But so let's let's talk a little bit about thatcomment that you made and and I made in in the
lead up to this this call, each of this callabout the experience you had watching your
mother go through some pretty challengingfinancial times, and I it sounds like that's
kind of what propelled you into doing the workyou do and and really having to focus on women
(02:18):
and helping them become financially stable.
Yeah.
You hit the head on on both nails there.
It's kinda like the best of times, the worst oftimes.
And with my daughters, you know, there's fiveof them, and I think that as being the best of
times.
And preceding that, of course, was my mother'sexperience.
And as you mentioned in the intro is that, youknow, my my mother had to give up custody of us
(02:39):
four kids when she went through her divorceback when I was probably nine or 10 years old.
And that's really where my passion comes from.
It's like looking at that experience and beinga part of that experience in, of course, a very
different way than my mother went through andtrying to make sure that women, in particular,
(02:59):
never have to go through that experience againlike my mom did.
Had I been around or had this happened today,and if that was a woman who came to us with
that situation, her outcomes would be very,very different than what my mother's was.
And so, yeah, these these are big life issues,and they have long tentacles over time.
(03:22):
And so we're just trying to put people, womenin particular, in the best possible position
post divorce as we possibly can.
Yeah.
Well, I appreciate the work that you do.
That that's for sure.
The it just it just everything you describedabout your situation growing up, I mean, I was
probably seven or eight years old when myparents decided to get a divorce.
I talk about this all the time on the podcast,so you've probably heard me say this.
(03:44):
But, you know, it it's it was like an left anindelible imprint in my in my life for sure as
it did as it did with you.
It's effectively what propelled both of us, youknow, into doing the work that we do.
I remember, you know, like, my parents wereworking multiple jobs, just trying to keep
thing you know, keep a roof over our heads, andit was a struggle.
And so I I guess on your side and and like,where where do you feel the downfall was?
(04:09):
Was it just a matter of, like, she becausethere's no real financial education out there.
Right?
I mean, like, especially, you know, forty yearsago, there's really there's really no good
financial education.
And do you think it stemmed from that, or werethere other things that were involved that
might have been at play?
Yeah.
Well, the world was very different forty yearsago than it is today for in a lot of ways.
And financial education was not where it's attoday, although there are still major barriers
(04:34):
or discrepancies, gaps when it comes tofinancial knowledge today.
My mom's situation was really born out of twothings.
One is she was an immigrant from South Korea,had never written a language, but couldn't
read, couldn't write English, couldn't drive.
And so there was a huge language barrier andjust cultural barrier that she was facing.
And so my father was at a major advantage whenit came to those negotiations.
(04:58):
I mean, she just didn't know what she didn'tknow.
And she wasn't in a position to be able to getthe resources she needed.
So that world doesn't exist in that way today,of course, with the Internet and all kinds of
other abilities to get information.
Fortunately, for most folks today, they're muchcloser to getting the information they need,
but there's still big gaps.
(05:20):
There's still power.
It was a power play in essence.
And and I'm not saying this in this disparagingway towards my father.
Divorce negotiations are what they are, andthey often don't, go the way you'd want them to
go.
But there is still a big power imbalance inrelationships, and that's really what that was.
It was a power imbalance, in that case, bornout of a cultural barrier and a language
(05:43):
barrier.
But today, I mean, there are still majorimbalances, whether it's a money imbalance, a
power imbalance from just personality types,etcetera.
And the idea is to try and level the playingfield with those imbalances.
And and I'm sure you see this all the time inyour practice and in your work in the divorce
space, is trying to help those who can'tadvocate for themselves find a way to do so,
(06:06):
whether it's through knowledge, just being ableto stand up to the party, finding the right
partners and professionals to partner with.
It's really about getting on an even playingfield so you can try to get to an equitable
outcome versus being steamrolled by the otherside.
What what do you think are the first financialsteps a woman should take, you know, to try to
regain some of that control back and and, youknow, to give themselves confidence as they're
(06:32):
going through this experience, not not onlywhile they're going through the divorce
experience, but maybe even on the tail end ofit when they're trying to figure out their next
steps.
What are some of those steps that you've seenwork well?
Yeah.
Step one is always you have to know what youown, what you own and what you owe.
And there's in in many households still today,there is a a division of labor when it comes to
(06:54):
the personal finances.
And that works, that's very common inrelationships, of course.
I mean, you both don't do equal chores aroundthe house, so to speak.
Right?
You divide up the labor depending upon eitherability, interest, whatever the case may be.
And so money in many households that might bebroken up, whereas the from a stereotypical
(07:16):
standpoint, maybe the the wife handles the dayto day purchases, sort of the wallet, buying
groceries or paying the bills, that kind ofstuff.
And then the husband might handle the bigpicture items like the investments and taxes
and otherwise.
And that works in a relationship that worksjust fine.
But when you go through a divorce process, itdoesn't work.
(07:37):
There's a major imbalance because when you'retalking about splitting of assets, property,
and the like, if the husband has all theknowledge and information and understanding
around those topics, and those are the thingsthat are being split in a divorce, the wife
oftentimes is at a disadvantage because shedoesn't know where those things are.
She's not familiar with them.
And so there oftentimes is a big gap right fromthe start in terms of the woman understanding
(08:05):
where's where's everything at.
Like, I don't she she might say, don't evenknow what we have.
And that's not only true of women.
I mean, that happens in a lot of cases wherepeople don't really know where their money's
at.
But in particular, it does seem to be that themen handle the big picture items of finance
more so than the women do.
So I would start with, again, knowing what youown and what you owe as a starting point, And
(08:30):
then you really need to understand what it isthat you own.
And if you don't, you need to get help.
Find the right professionals who can guide youand speak to you in the way that you need to be
spoken to so you understand what these itemsare.
And then that's gonna start to put you on levelground when it comes to negotiating in the the
(08:50):
divorce settlement process.
Yeah.
One one of the things you just mentioned there,it it resonated with me with with, you know,
speak speak the way you're supposed to bespoken to.
Right?
And it's we see that.
And and we've I worked at big name firms, andwhen you and I have been both both, you know,
doing this work for twenty years, so youprobably have some of the same experiences
where, like, there's the old, like, you know,the the the the the financial adviser that's
(09:15):
been doing this work for fifty years, sittingin the behind the mahogany desk and, like,
talking down to you.
Like, I just I had that that vision in my headwhen you when you mentioned those those words.
Like and that may and in some cases, I thinkthat's probably what a lot of women feel like
is gonna happen if they reach out and get thehelp.
Thankfully, dudes like us exist and and a lotof women that do this work as well that that
(09:36):
are don't don't take that approach.
I wonder if I wonder if some in some ways,that's what kind of hinders people in general
just reaching out for to get help because theythink that, you know, someone like us is gonna
come and talk down to them and tell them, youknow, poke holes in everything that they're
doing and tell them, like, they should be doingthis and they shouldn't be doing that and all
the other stuff.
And that's not really it.
Right?
It's all about coaching and and and and reallybeing there to support people through this
(09:57):
through this experience.
Sure.
Well, it's no secret that the financialservices industry isn't female friendly.
I don't I'm not saying that it's misogynistic.
I don't think that's true at all.
I just think that the typical financial adviseris used to talking and working with men.
Okay?
And there's nothing wrong with that.
That's how the industry grew up.
I mean, we both went through coaching andtraining programs, led by men.
(10:21):
The industry has been dominated by menhistorically because that's who had the money.
And, of course, we live in a different worldtoday, but those those pathways that have been
built, they remain.
And so there is a challenge in our industry.
Again, I'm sure you see this all the time, inthat we're trained and taught to work with men.
(10:42):
And so when we try to take that training, whichworks very well, by the way, in reaching men,
and we try to massage it or just alter it a bitto make it fit for how women think, it doesn't
really work.
It just misses the mark.
And because women and men engage with moneyvery differently, and so it is a barrier when
(11:03):
you're a woman trying to get information.
You're trying to do the right thing.
You do the Google search.
You read all the different things about whatsteps should you take to hire a financial
professional.
In the divorce arena, might say, okay.
Let's find a CDFA, that's certified divorcefinancial analyst.
Right?
There aren't many of us out there, but go findthem.
And then you do that, and if that person isn'tused to working with women and particularly
(11:27):
women going through a crisis like divorce, theexperience usually falls flat.
And it's intimidating to begin with.
Again, women have a tendency to not like toengage with money, at least more less so than
men traditionally do.
And then when you actually do that and youreach out and you do all the right things and
it falls flat, then what do you do?
(11:48):
You kind of throw up your hands or you talk toyour your girlfriends and they have the same
experience, it can be very frustrating and itjust doesn't lead to getting the advice and the
information you need, which is a real problemand it's part of the reason that I'm probably
why you have Allegiant Divorce as a separateentity, right, to be able to talk that and to
(12:11):
get that information out into the world.
I don't want to put words in your mouth oranything, but we started Enlighten Her for that
same reason is because we needed broader way toto reach more women where they are today versus
the traditional financial model.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
I wanna come back to EnlightenHER in just asecond because I have some questions on on that
(12:31):
program and what you've done, the work thatyou're doing there.
But one but before I forget because I'm old, Iwanna ask this question about the because
you're we're we're still stick on the on thethe women here and and, you know, the
experiences that they have, and a lot of it'semotional too.
Right?
I mean, let's just let's just, you know, let'sjust let's just call it what it is.
Right?
Because women tend to be more emotional thanmen when it comes to to some of these some of
(12:56):
these things.
So, you know, you've you've said before thatmoney is never just about numbers.
There are some emotions, and there there arestrong held beliefs that are that impact our
decision making, especially with a lot of thewomen that you work with.
So how do those how do some of, like, the oldstories and all all the experiences that we've
had, especially especially from divorce, howare they how have you seen them hold women back
(13:19):
in actually taking specific financial action?
Well, there's no doubt that money is emotionalregardless.
I mean, it we we sort of think of it or we'dlike to think of it as this this, inert neutral
item, but people have fear when it comes tomoney.
That's that's an emotion.
Right?
They have a lack of confidence.
(13:40):
They're intimidated by it.
And so money in and of itself is emotionemotional.
And then you add in the element of divorce.
But even even if you're not going throughdivorce, you know, your history is with your
history with money matters.
And so it's you've probably heard this talkedabout, as it's sort of the invisible money
scripts or these this dialogue, this sort ofsubconscious dialogue that you have with
(14:04):
yourself that prevents you from moving forwardwith money in a certain way even though you may
not know it.
You know?
So I was talking to a family member not thatlong ago, and, you know, he's in retirement,
and he's done a great job, an amazing job ofsaving over time, investing, being frugal with
his spending.
And he's at a place right now where he couldspend way more than he's spending.
(14:27):
Right?
He's done the hard work, and so I'm trying toget him to realize that and go spend his money.
You know?
And I know he doesn't want to be the richestperson in the graveyard.
That's not what motivates him, but he can't gethimself to spend money.
That's and he's there's no reason to befearful.
I mean, he has by every objective measure, theguy is gonna die with a ton of money.
(14:51):
You know?
Mhmm.
And even if he doubled or tripled his spendingevery year for the rest of his life, he's still
going to die with more than he ever needs.
And yet, he can't move forward with it.
You know?
So that's part of the challenge isunderstanding where are your biases when it
comes to money.
What are the things that are holding you back?
It has nothing to do with intelligence or even,in many cases, education like traditional
(15:12):
financial education because we can go throughthe concepts with clients.
Yet, if they don't move forward, that's abehavioral piece.
And so being able to tap in and talk aboutmoney in the way that women think about money,
again, coming back to how women and and menthink about money differently, is that men have
to be tend to be a bit more tangible.
(15:33):
Like, it's it's good enough for a lot of guysto go to them and say, hey.
Your your investments are beating the marketby, you know, 20 basis points or by 2% or 3%.
Mhmm.
That resonates with men.
It's like, great.
I have more money.
I'm doing better than the benchmark.
Awesome.
If I say that to a woman, she's gonna be like,yeah.
Great.
So what?
That doesn't matter to her.
What matters is that she's like, okay.
(15:54):
What what does that mean for my life?
What does that 2% equate in terms of what I cando in my life?
Am I gonna be able to travel more?
Am I gonna be able to retire earlier?
Can I educate my kids better?
Am I gonna be able to do things for others inmy family?
It's different.
You know?
And so that's one of the challenges is that ourindustry, we talk about the same subject, this
(16:15):
2% higher rate of return than the stock market,you have to use very different words and put
into a very different context when you'retalking to a a man and a woman.
Mhmm.
So and I I don't think a lot of our industryreally gets that, certainly not in the way that
is enabling them to connect with women in a waythat women wanna be connected with.
One of the things that I see all the time inworking with women that are going through
(16:39):
divorce, and I I can't I I've been doing thiswork for a long time, and can't I can't
remember the last time a gentleman asked methis, but this comes from women a lot.
And then one of the questions is, can I keepthe house?
Right?
And and mainly what they're asking is, like,are we gonna be okay?
What is my lifestyle gonna look like?
Any any thoughts on that?
Sure.
I mean, that's very common.
I had a conversation just yesterday with thewoman, and she said, I would like my I like my
(17:05):
son to have stability.
I'd like him to remain in the same neighborhoodwith the same kids.
And I don't say this in this disparaging way,but I've never heard that from the guy.
Yeah.
And I think guys think about the house more ofas an asset and that that's an interchangeable
asset.
If I don't live in this house, can live inanother house.
And a woman thinks more broadly about it.
(17:25):
She's thinking about not the house as an asset.
She's thinking about it as the place where herchildren live.
Yeah.
And it's very different.
And so on paper, that asset might look the sameas a four zero one k plan or money sitting in
cash.
And to the court system, maybe it looks thesame, but you and I both know that they're not
the same.
Certainly not in terms of its value as anasset.
(17:47):
But take that aside, they're different becauseyou can't live in your four zero one ks plan.
Right?
So it is very different and that's why I thinkgetting the right knowledge and the right
information in the right context is soimportant.
Because on paper, a lot of these things thesethings can look the same, but they they are
very different in the real world where youwhere you live and and breathe.
(18:11):
Let let's dive into that a little bit because Ifor the people that are listening that don't
really understand that concept, can you give megive me an example?
Right?
So, like, we're talking about tax situationsand, you know, the the the tax taxation of
different accounts.
Right?
Maybe peel back the onion around that a little
Sure.
So in a divorce process, a lot of times whatyou're looking at is trying to find a fair
settlement.
And let's just say a fair settlement is $50.50.
(18:34):
Half of all of the assets, one half goes to thehusband, the other half goes to the wife.
And then they look at the types of assets thatyou own.
So you have a house, and let's say the house isworth $500,000 free and clear.
And then you have a four zero one k plan that'sworth $500,000 free and clear.
So on paper, those two assets are equal.
They're both worth $500,000 right now.
(18:56):
If you sold all the assets in the and we'regonna make it even simpler.
No tax implications from this at all.
So they're exactly the same.
If you sell both, you you're both sitting therewith $500,000.
But in the real world, that's not how it works.
Right?
Because we know or I shouldn't say we know, butbecause that four zero one k plan is invested,
and let's say it's invested in the stockmarket, which has a potential for growth of the
(19:20):
long term average in the stock market's, say,10%.
So that asset is going to grow and it's goingto double approximately every seven years.
And the asset in the home, maybe it grows by 4%a year.
Okay?
And so it's going to grow much more slowly.
And so from an asset standpoint today, they'reboth the same.
But if you hold the s both each of those assetsfor twenty years, the four zero one k plan is
(19:43):
gonna be worth way more money than the than thehouse.
And that's a very simple level of analyses, butit just if you're looking at the totality of
someone's life and planning for their entirelife and not just here and now, you would
evaluate those two assets very differently.
You would not say, oh, it doesn't matter whichone you take.
(20:05):
You want the house?
Take the house.
It's fine.
You have a place to live.
You have security.
And this is what the guys do.
They're like, oh, yeah.
Take the house.
You should have the house.
They put on their, you know, their altruistichat, and they say, oh, I think you should have
the house.
Keep the kid there.
Have stability.
You want the house.
Great.
And secretly, he's like, yeah.
I don't want that house.
I want the $500,000 four zero one k plan that'sgonna double and triple much faster than that
(20:29):
home will.
And so I say that in a negative way and adisparaging way.
So maybe not all guys are like that, but someare.
And even if you aren't, you you definitelyshould know, you know, what the value of that
house is not just today but down the road.
And that's one small, small example of whenyou're getting into the the minutiae of divorce
and divorce settlement, why knowing not knowingwhat you don't know can really hurt you.
(20:54):
Absolutely.
It's all about financial literacy.
Right?
And then this is this is stuff that they don'tteach you in school and why we're gonna be
gainfully employed for the foreseeable future.
And as far, I mean, as far as literacy goes, Imean, you've done an amazing job, sounds like,
with with your daughters.
What are some of the practical tips thatlisteners that do have kids that want to, you
(21:16):
know, enlighten them and and and give them somefinancial literacy themselves?
And and what are the what would you say to themor some of the some of the early things that
you would want them to pass along to their totheir own children.
Sure.
I mean, probably what they've heard all along,start young.
Right?
The the power of compound interest works foryou when you're young.
(21:39):
And so if you could show that or demonstratethat to them, run through some numbers with
them and just say, look.
I mean, I'll I'll give an example what I didwith my girls.
Now you don't have to be a financial adviser todo this.
So I went into sec.gov.
The SEC's website.
If you go to sec.gov, there's a compoundinterest calculator there.
Very simple, very easy to use, plug in a coupleof numbers.
(22:01):
And I took my first, my oldest daughter whenshe was 16.
I said, hey, Maddie, let me walk you throughthis.
And so I went in.
I started playing with this calculator.
And I said, hey.
Look if we put in $250 a year a year, not amonth, a year starting now until you were 65.
Look at and we're just running at 8% orwhatever, and that's a lower interest rate
(22:21):
versus historical numbers.
You can play with the numbers yourself.
I said, just take a look at what $250 a monthlooks a year looks like if we started this
today.
And it's like some crazy big number.
Right?
So what I did was is we we did this together.
She punch punched in the numbers.
It was simple.
She could graphically see this chart, and itshowed it demonstrated to her.
(22:42):
She didn't have to believe me.
We went to this government website, shebelieved that, and it has all this money.
And then we started playing.
So what if we started out by putting a $100 amonth and maybe you took some of your birthday
money and you you seeded it with, like, I don'tknow, maybe at $500 or $200, whatever.
Again, you get to plug in these numbers.
And they get to actually see the growth ofthose investments over time.
(23:03):
And then I just remember her saying like shewas, like, kind of, like, in awe of this, like,
stunned.
And she's like, well, why wouldn't everybody dothis?
And I was like, oh, yeah.
I got this one.
Right?
Just set the hook.
Why wouldn't everybody do this?
Right?
And when you look at it from that honest andnaive I wouldn't say naive, but innocent lens,
(23:24):
yeah, why wouldn't everybody do this?
Well, because they don't really know.
I mean, I think most people or many people,certainly a lot more than are doing it today,
could carve out $250 a year in some type of anaccount, and you can pick the the the
appropriate account and get started today.
And then when you do that, you just let it run.
(23:45):
It just it just grows and grows and grows.
You know?
And so that's a a simple and easy thing and avisual thing for children.
I've done that with some of our clients'children, and it's it always works really,
really well.
You get them young.
You're not lecturing.
You're just educating them.
I think that's one of the most importantthings, getting started early.
(24:05):
And then as a part of getting started early, Ithink if you I think parents should just model
the behavior they wanna see in their kids.
I think we we understand this when it comes toliving our lives.
So if you have certain values you want yourchildren to have and you want to instill those
values, well, you should probably live thosevalues.
Right?
It's a lot easier to say, hey.
This is what we do here.
(24:25):
And consequently, here's what we don't do.
When it comes to money, it's the same thing.
So I think we should talk about money in theopen.
If that's something that's of value, think itis.
To me, it is it is a value.
Not that every subject has to be on the table.
Talk about money in front of them.
Talk about money in a positive way.
If you want them to to value a dollar, thendon't give them an allowance.
(24:48):
Make them earn that allowance.
Even if they have to do almost nothing to getthe money, they need to equate work with
payment.
Right?
You just give them money, then it's that doesthat's not how it works in the real world.
Nobody just gets money, so you have to work forit.
So just do some menial tasks around the house,get the money, and then let them use their own
money to buy stuff that maybe the householdshouldn't buy.
(25:10):
So we'll go to movies.
You know, we like to go to the movies a lot,and I'll buy so dad's bringing for popcorn and
a soda.
But, you know, it's all kinds of other candycandies and concessions there.
I'm not buying that.
But if they have their own money and they wannause it, okay.
Use it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It teaches them the value of a dollar.
So really three things.
(25:31):
I would I would compound interest.
I'd show them that SEC calculator.
I would model good behavior, the behavior youwant, start those conversations early, and then
give them dollars of their own and tie it tosome sort of work so they understand that those
two go hand in hand.
It's not rocket science.
Right?
I mean, people I I think people think overthinkit and they get so overwhelmed.
(25:52):
And what do I do?
And how do I put them on the right track?
And I have to do this thing and that thing.
And and even as financial professionals, wejust it's just very easy.
Just keep it super simple.
Right?
You don't need to overcomplicate it.
And and we did we did a very, very similarsimilar strategy with with, our kids as well.
You know, we had Roth IRAs as soon as they hadtheir first, you know, the first we let them
(26:13):
work for a year and spend the money that theyearned for that first year.
Then after that first year, they had tocontribute to their Roth IRAs, and and it's
just just great lessons for them to learn alongthe way.
So thanks for sharing that, man.
Tell me about I wanna I wanna come back tothis.
I I promise I didn't forget.
EnlightenHER.
What's tell me about EnlightenHER and and wherethat came from and what you guys are doing
(26:34):
there.
Sure.
Well, I appreciate you asking.
EnlightenHER is a women's first financialeducation company, very succinct, and that's
really what we're about.
We're we recognize that there's a big gap interms of the financial literacy of women in
general.
I mean, there's a big gap in financial literacyfor men and women.
Let's just be upfront about that.
But the gap is larger for women than it is formen.
(26:56):
And and so when we started looking at I reallystarted looking at my girls and why they
interact with money differently than their peergroup because I can see how their friends
interact.
They're they have some family members that areof the same age, extended family that think
about money very differently.
And the difference is is that they have afinancial adviser as a as a father.
(27:18):
My kids do, and the other ones don't.
And it's not like I'm sitting down with themgoing at a chalkboard and and doing all these
complicated formulas.
I did exactly what I told you a second ago.
We've modeled good behavior.
I walked them through compound interest stuff,and then I give them their own money, or I make
them earn their own money in the household.
(27:38):
It's just basic knowledge, really.
It's just basic financial literacy.
And so if we really wanna see a change, this ismy viewpoint.
It's not the only viewpoint, but this is myperspective.
My thought is if we can get the women who arejust entering the workforce, this is where the
(27:58):
genesis of the idea started.
Really, I wanted to be able to to talk to themoms of these women, quite frankly, because I
don't think the the younger generation justgetting started, they they may be interested,
they may not, but the moms care about theirkids.
They care about their daughters.
And so the idea was, well, can we provide somefinancial literacy?
Maybe we can't go direct to the consumer likelike to like my girl's age, early twenties.
(28:23):
Maybe that's a little early.
Although, thoughts are changing on that alittle bit.
Maybe we can start to reach the mothers who canthen they've recognized the mistakes they've
made over time.
I've heard this a lot.
Like, oh, I wish I could go back and do it allover again.
Well, you sort of have a chance.
You can do that for your children.
And so if you could become a conduit tofinancial knowledge and understanding and
(28:44):
perspective for your children, then that'sgonna be able to maybe that's enough to get
people started.
Because it all it's about getting started withthis financial knowledge early in life and have
that carry forward because if we could get thisnext generation to take hold, then they can
teach their children and go outward to theirpeer group.
(29:05):
So long story short, EnlightenHER is thiswomen's first financial education company where
where out there, our mission is just to get asmuch financial information in the hands of in
women of women in the way that women want theinformation.
So it's built from the ground up for how womenthink about money, what is the purpose of this
money, not about making the most money, tyingin with, the emotions around money.
(29:29):
Again, men have emotions around money and womendo, so we're just leaning into the the emotions
that women tend to have around money in theirway.
And, yeah, the idea is is quite simple.
It's just to educate and then hopefully have asea change for not just their generation but
for but for generations thereafter.
If we really wanna fix the problem, we can'tjust fix it, you know, one client at a time.
(29:50):
We wanna do it in a much broader scale.
Yeah.
And then you get that multiplier effect andthen on and on and on.
Right?
So it's a generational thing.
I love it, man.
I always I always ask this question when we'regetting ready to wrap.
So let me ask you the same question I askeverybody else.
This is what I call the carte blanche segmentof our of our conversation today.
Is there anything that I I should have askedthat I didn't ask or anything you wanna share
(30:12):
with our listeners that would be important forthem to know that we haven't covered today?
Well, we talked about a lot of different thingsand a lot of different levels, whether it's
divorce or just kids and women in finance ingeneral.
I think I would just harken back to what yousaid earlier.
A lot of the financial advice or what peoplethink the financial advice or knowledge they
(30:36):
should have is much simpler than they think.
I think getting started is much, much easierand a lot less intimidating and much smaller
than people think.
They think it's good because the world offinance is large.
It's wide and it's deep and it's verycomplicated, but not for everybody and not for
most and not if you're getting started.
If you're getting started, it is just verysimple.
(30:58):
Maybe you just need to save a couple ofdollars.
Right?
Because at the end of day, the fundamentals areyou need to save some money, save slash invest
some money, not run up debt.
Those are the kind of the basics.
I everybody kind of knows that.
And yet they get hung up on, well, what's thebest way to pay off debt or what's the best way
to save?
Just start.
Start by saving some money into a separate bankaccount somewhere and then take the next step
(31:24):
from there.
So I just really think that if we could get outof our own heads and not try and pick the
perfect plan, not find the perfect solution,just find a solution, a foot in the door, do
something that's positive, save a couple ofdollars on a regular basis, pay down the debt,
pay extra on this, or don't run up a creditcard.
If you just start there and then you learn alittle bit in that process and then you take
(31:48):
the next step.
But you can't just keep pushing this stuff off.
I mean, that's the thing.
I think a lot of people just push off thisdecision, whatever that decision is.
I'll get to it later.
I'm so busy.
I don't know anything.
And it's that that little story we tellourselves that makes it okay to not engage and
have that quote unquote bad behavior.
(32:08):
So hopefully that answers your question.
I don't know if it does.
But Oh, absolutely, man.
And and it's just all about getting momentum.
Right?
You just take one you take one step forward.
You do one small little task, and it turns intothe a bit you know, a bigger situation.
You get that snowball effect, and you get themomentum.
And the next thing you know, you're sitting ina great spot.
I mean, I've seen people, you know, wipe outcredit card debt and, you know, buy the home
(32:31):
that they've, you know, always dreamed about orput, you know, little Johnny, little Susie
through college, all those things simply bytaking that first step.
So I I couldn't agree more, man.
Thanks.
Thanks, Eds.
Thanks so much for for being here with ustoday, for bringing your deep expertise, and
frankly, even deeper empathy that you have forpeople to our episodes.
So your story, your family legacy, your missionwith enlighten her are incredibly powerful
(32:55):
reminders that financial empowerment is both apersonal and a generational gift.
You can connect with Ed through Burning RiverAdvisory Group or join the enlighten her
community to access mentorship, resources, andplanning tools that we're gonna make sure are
all linked in the show notes.
And if you're currently walking through thestorm of divorce, Allegiant Divorce Solutions
is here to help you move from confusion toclarity.
(33:16):
Visit us at allegiantds.com.
Don't forget to subscribe to more episodes ofBroke Up Not Broken for more conversations just
like this that blend financial guidance withemotional strength.
Until next time.
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