April 23, 2025 • 31 mins
Jamie M. Lima is joined by Adam Zuckerman to explore the intricacies of estate planning during and after divorce. They discuss Adam's journey into estate planning and provide an overview of his work with Buried and Work. The episode covers the importance of organizing estate information and planning documents, and the differences between wills and trusts. Key topics include the significance of power of attorney and updating estate plans post-divorce, alongside real-life estate planning issues and personal stories. The conversation highlights estate planning template bundles, action checklists, and the role of financial literacy and digital estate planning in ensuring organized information for heirs.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of broke up,not broken.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Jamie Lima and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions.
We help people prepare for, navigate, andrecover financially from divorce.
This podcast is your one stop shop formastering your life and your finances
throughout the entire divorce process.
Welcome to today's episode where we're joinedby Adam Zuckerman, founder of Buried and Work,
a comprehensive platform designed to streamlineand simplify end of life planning.
(00:26):
After managing his father's affairs during achallenging illness, Adam was inspired to
create resources that aid individuals andfamilies in preparing for life's hardest
moments.
Today, we're gonna delve into how hisinnovative tools and guides can support those
dealing with complex estate and financialplanning issues, during and in the wake of
divorce.
(00:46):
And I'm super happy to have you here, man,because I was a guest on your show, which is
awesome.
So we're gonna plug that here as well.
So people that haven't had a chance to tolisten to Adam's show, I'm gonna make sure we
get all the show links and everything else tooso they can hear your wonderful voice.
Share all all about all things estate planning.
But, man, good to see you again.
Thanks for thanks for joining me today.
Hey.
Great to be here, Jamie.
Thanks for having.
(01:06):
%, man.
So so let's just kick it off.
Right?
So we we had a chance to talk on your showabout little bit about the work that we do and
helping people navigate some of the thefinancial nuances of a divorce.
One of the things that I'm passionate about andhave been for many, many years is and even
though it's very boring to some folks, is theestate planning.
Right?
Estate planning that goes into not only forthose that aren't going through a divorce,
(01:29):
everybody needs to have an estate plan.
Right?
Who's gonna take care of your stuff after youpass away?
And especially if you have kids, how are yougonna make sure they're taken care of if
something were to happen to you?
But we see this all the time in the middle ofpeople going through a divorce or or they
finalize their divorce, and they don't have anyof these things in place.
So, you know, I I I think this is gonna be agreat great message for those people that are
(01:50):
out there that are in that situation to hearfrom you today.
But why you kick it off, man?
Let us learn more about who you are and andkind of how you got into this realm.
Yeah.
So I appreciate that.
And it's funny when you say you need an estateplan.
You don't need an estate plan.
Everybody has an estate plan.
Mhmm.
And I think that that's one of the largestmisconceptions in the country is that people
(02:10):
think, oh, I don't need one.
I don't have a lot of assets.
I don't need an estate plan.
But the reality is is that regardless ofwhether you create a will or a trust or
advanced directives or anything, you know, inbetween in this in this world of estate
planning and end of life tasks.
You have an estate plan because if you don'ttake action yourself, the state creates one for
you.
So if you don't want the state to dictate whathappens to your stuff and who gets it, you
(02:33):
should actually take some action.
By default.
Yep.
Yep.
By default.
I've got a weird background.
I'm an attorney.
I have an MBA.
I've worked in finance at a hedge fund and grewto $1,200,000,000 while I was there.
I was Discovery Channel's parent companies,intrapreneur, and futurist at one point in
time, which meant I was investing in startupsand traveling around the world, teaching people
about technology.
(02:54):
I was selling nuclear power plants to primeministers at at one point in career.
And I did not expect that I would be running acompany that is now being called the most
comprehensive estate planning and end of liferesource in the country.
Mhmm.
But it's the most fulfilling thing I've everdone, which is wonderful.
And how I got here is a very strange story.
(03:18):
So my father was at my house, and we're workingon a project in the basement.
He walks up the stairs, he goes, Adam, I'mtired.
And when he says he's tired, it's differentthan when we say it.
When you say it or I say it, we take a nap.
We drink some coffee.
We push through.
When he says it, he goes to Johns HopkinsHospital in Baltimore.
And the reason why is six and a half yearsprior to when he told me that, he was diagnosed
(03:39):
with leukemia for the first time.
Mhmm.
So I actually donated bone marrow to him.
I oftentimes teased him after that that he justkept me around for spare parts.
It's kind of a relationship that we had.
And he goes to the doctor after telling me thathe has test on on a Tuesday, checks in on
Thursday, and he dies twelve days later.
Super quick.
(03:59):
Yeah.
Heavy.
But in the in hindsight 2020, it actuallyhappened in a really nice way.
We were able to fly relatives in that needed tosee him or wanted to see him.
He was with it.
We could say goodbye, and so many people justdon't have that opportunity.
We were able to get six and a half years extratime because Hopkins was so good at what they
do.
And he got to meet my my sister's kids who nowhave memories of him as they've grown up.
(04:23):
They're they're teenagers now.
Like, if it had to happen, it it happened in aa nice way, all things considered, but f
cancer.
So I was named the executor on the will becauseI'm an attorney, and that's who my parents
chose.
My mom's still around.
And I started taking really diligent notes ofevery single thing that that I did.
On this date, this time, I called this person.
I followed up with this template.
(04:43):
Here's the status of the account, x y z.
So, like, when somebody's getting a divorce,you have to do the inventory, the marshaling of
the assets, right, which you help so many ofyour clients with.
And when I met with my mom's financial adviserto show her what I had put together and where
we were in the process, at the end of theconversation, she said, Adam, this is the most
comprehensive transition I've ever seen.
(05:04):
And the devil on my shoulder were the same age.
We grew up watching TV, you know, give or takea few years, I've got more gray hair than you
do.
But I went gray at 18.
Devil pops up on my shoulder.
Can I curse?
Am I allowed to curse on your show?
I don't know.
%.
Okay.
Adam, she's full of shit.
She does she knows that you have financialpower of attorney for your mom.
She just doesn't want you to move your mom'smoney to another another professional.
(05:26):
Mhmm.
Angel pops up on my other shoulder.
Adam, it's pretty organized.
Maybe she's maybe she's actually telling youthe truth.
Think about it.
And that's what I did.
I thought about it.
I showed some friends what I put together.
I showed some people that were my mom's agewhat I put together, and every single person
said, you know how to build a website.
Build a website, share a few notes, share a fewchecklists, just help a few people out, and be
(05:50):
done with it.
That's literally what I thought I was doingwhen I started buried in work.
I came up with a punny name because no one'sgonna find, like, the Adam Zuckerman estate
planning blog.
So buried in work, pun.
I made a silly logo.
It's actually a casket if you look at it.
So the the bee and the buried is somebody'shead.
And I posted the next door LinkedIn Facebookthat I had created this website, and I hope
(06:11):
that people find it valuable.
And I was not prepared for what happened next.
In one week, we had over 10,000 visitors to thewebsite.
Good job.
Yep.
My inbox filled up with messages of thank youfor doing this.
It's a great memory of your dad.
He'd be very proud of you, which means a lot tohear that.
It's emotional.
(06:31):
Yep.
But then the the messages started shifting to,this is a great checklist that tells me what to
do, but I want someone to help me do it.
And it's grown since then.
We now have 50 plus information hubs, 15guides, 20 plus directories, a hundred plus
checklist, 2,000 plus articles.
Literally down to the details of, if you needto close an account with Amazon, here's the
(06:52):
customer service, you know, account and who youneed to email, and here are templates you can
buy or utilize.
Sometimes they're free.
Sometimes they're for purchase depending on thetype, to reach out to them.
We have two card games, nothing left unsaid,and one more story that were developed.
Literally, game designers, so when youphysically feel them, the the touch and feel of
the cards are matte linen feels so people withdexterity issues can hold them.
(07:13):
One more story is about capturing stories, sixcategories, 26 questions.
Nothing left unsaid is the quick version ofwhat we have called the clear kit, and I'll
talk a little bit about that.
That says, do you have a will?
Do you have a trust?
You know, identifying your state information.
And a podcast like you mentioned earlier how wemet, and now I'm doing it full time.
(07:35):
So that's the story of of how we got to wherewe are, and things are are oddly fantastically.
Yeah.
We really enjoy helping people, so it's it'snice to be doing what we're doing.
And it's it's kinda like the work we do on thedivorce side.
Right?
Like, it's almost you know, I mean, everybody'sgonna pass away.
I mean, we're all we're we all have, you know,limited time on this planet.
(07:55):
And and like you said, everybody's gonna needthis type of service whether by design or by
default, they're gonna they're gonna put it inplace.
But, you know, it's these morbid things thatpeople don't wanna talk about, but they
absolutely have to.
And and, you know, unfortunately, fifty percentof the people we know are gonna go through a
divorce.
Right?
And and a hundred percent of the people we knoware gonna pass away.
(08:15):
So this is I think it's noble work that you do,man.
That's why I am so pumped that, we had a chanceto connect and and do some work together.
But I I wanted to just to go back a smidgebecause a lot of people that a lot of people
that that tune in are really just trying tounderstand how all this stuff works.
Mhmm.
Like, they like, you've you've said it a coupletimes, you know, the power of attorneys and the
(08:36):
living trust and the living will and the trustand so on.
Can you just elaborate a little bit on thoseitems just so people that don't have the
experience know what we're talking about?
Alright.
So first thing I'll say is absolutely we can dothat.
If you want more information, come to ourwebsite.
90% of what we have is free.
We have free guides, introduction to estateplanning, free guides, difference between wills
(08:57):
and trusts, free checklist, as you considerthis, do x y z.
Your situation is unique just like everybodyelse's also.
If somebody says you need this without actuallyasking you about your situation first, they are
not somebody that you should be working with.
Okay?
So we'll start there.
When most people talk about estate planning inthe country, they think about having a will or
(09:18):
a trust.
Those are two mechanisms that help you transferyour assets, what you own, your possessions, in
the event something were to happen to you.
A will is not better than a trust.
A trust is not better than a will.
They do different things.
So a will is public.
It gets filed with a local jurisdiction wherethe individual dies and says, this is what I
(09:38):
wanna have happen to my stuff.
A trust also says, this is what I wanna havehappen to my stuff, but it provides different
mechanisms of privacy so you don't have to filethat with the state and has different tax
implications and different restrictions of howit's managed.
So you may we've all heard the term, like, atrust fund, baby.
That means that someone created a trust.
(10:00):
There's multiple different types.
You can read about them on the website.
To have assets in a bucket, and I'msimplifying, for the benefit of another
individual.
And the trustee is the person who manages thattrust to make sure that the assets are
distributed the way they're supposed to do.
And they can have them revocable, irrevocable,whatnot.
So think of it this way.
(10:20):
If you have anything, you have a shirt on yourback, that's what a will does.
If you have a lot of assets, then you startlooking at trust.
So that's like the basic basic one zero one.
Is there a rule of thumb between using one orthe other?
In in California, we're I'm I'm located inCalifornia.
And and our kind of the guideline that we'vealways been given is if you have more than a
(10:43):
hundred and $50,000 in assets, because in thestate of California, there's such thing as
called small probate, and it's very much muchmore streamlined probate process here.
Is that the same in most states, or is this iswhat are your thoughts on that?
Yeah.
So we actually have state specific probate onezero one guides for every single state.
Yep.
And we don't say that there is a specificthreshold or limit of when you should do this.
(11:06):
It's more of a totality of your situation.
So if you have one child and there is nopotential of arguments among siblings, if you
don't have a blended family, if you haven'tbeen divorced, it's a very straightforward
situation.
You can pass a million dollars through that.
Right?
It's not a problem.
But you should be working with an attorney, andwhat we say is if you have more than 250,000 or
(11:27):
$500,000 depending on where you live, youshould start considering some of those other
mechanisms for deferred transfers or simplifiedtransfer or even private transfer.
That's where trust come.
But there's no, like, bright line.
If you have this, then you have to do this.
Got it.
What you should though do is create your willwhen you're 18 for tomorrow and update it and
(11:48):
it evolves with you as you get older.
And we say, update your will every April 16 toreview it to see if there are any things that
need to be updated.
So have you had a lit a major life event?
Have you gotten married?
Have you moved?
Did you change jobs?
Have you opened bank accounts?
You know?
Did you buy a car?
Did you sell a car?
You know?
All the things that that you might wanna thinkabout.
Did you have a kid?
Have your kid's now aged over 18, so you don'tneed a guardianship designation for them.
(12:12):
So that's the the basis of a will and a trust.
When we talk about advanced directives, theymean different things in different places.
In some states, an advanced directive is aspecific legal form that needs to be filled
out, and in other places, it's a generality ofa form.
But what advanced directives do is it allowsother people to act on your behalf in the event
(12:34):
that you're unable to act on your own behalf.
So, Jamie, if you get hit by a bus and you'rein a coma, you're not dead yet.
So we haven't triggered, you know, your will oryour trust or any of those provisions that that
may come into play, but you're just not able toadvocate.
Who do you want making decisions for you?
That's what power of attorney is.
You can have it just for medical decisions.
(12:56):
You can have it just for financial decisions.
You can revoke those powers that you give, andthose powers also end as soon as you pass away.
So I'm really sorry, Jamie.
You got hit by a bus.
I was acting on your behalf.
You died.
I can no longer access your bank accounts if Iwas I had financial power of attorney because
you are no longer alive.
(13:16):
So I am no longer your representative, whoeveryou have as your trustee or your estate
executive or the minister that gets designatedby the court.
That person can do that.
So those are your main buckets, you know, youradvanced directives, power of attorneys, your
wills, your trusts.
That's where we think a lot of people makemistakes.
Now on average, it takes five hundred andseventy hours or more to administer an estate
(13:38):
in The United States.
Divorces are complicated.
Administrating in the state is complicated.
And the more divorces you have, the more familymembers, the more complications of assets and
everything, the more complicated the situationis.
So to draw an analogy, Jamie, you're comingover for dinner tonight.
What are we cooking?
I think we want some steak tonight.
Okay.
We're making steaks.
We've got some rib eyes.
(13:59):
Yep.
Perfect.
Right.
We're gonna open up a nice bottle of wine withit maybe.
Maybe a beer too, you know, potatoes, bakedpotatoes.
It'd be great.
So you come over, everything's on the counter.
We start cooking, game's on, watch game, goodto go.
But if you come over to make steaks, and Idon't tell you that I'm not home, but you're
supposed to be there.
(14:19):
I don't tell you that the steaks are frozen inthe freezer downstairs, but to find the
freezer, you actually have to move boxes that Iput in front of it.
Right?
It's gonna take us a lot longer or you a lotlonger to make dinner.
And that's exactly what's happening to so manyAmericans.
Ten to 12,000 Americans turn 65 every singleday.
Right?
This is a problem that is only going to getmore complicated.
(14:41):
And we're sending loved ones and family memberson these scavenger hunts that if I just called
you up and said, hey.
I'm stuck in the office.
I'm gonna be twenty five minutes late.
Here's the keypad to the garage.
Go inside.
Go downstairs.
Get the steak.
Start defrosting them.
That would be really easy instead of juststanding around waiting for me to come over,
right, to help out.
And that's what we're trying to help people todo.
(15:02):
Is if you don't know what you need to know,come to us, find another company, go to you.
I I don't care.
Just just start and organize your informationso your family members don't go on that
scavenger hunt.
And once you start organizing your information,you're going to identify, oh, I need to update
my will.
Oh, I should be evaluating this.
Oh, I should be planning my funeral.
Oh, I should making these decisions now.
(15:24):
So when it is the time to actually, you know,engage these these systems that you've put in
place, your family members aren't leftscrambling in a grief.
Love the analogy.
Now I want steak, but more importantly, I wantmore importantly, I I this is this is great
because this is also so incredibly importantpost divorce because those there are two
(15:46):
things.
One, either people that don't have any of thesethings in place and then they and they fail to
put them in place and now they you know, thebeneficiaries are taken care of and they don't
we have no idea.
Like, the family members are gonna come in.
They don't know where where any of the bodiesare buried, so to speak.
Right?
That's a appropriate analogy, I think.
But, like, you have that challenge.
But secondarily, I what I've seen is we havethese divorces that are finalized, and things
(16:08):
like beneficiary updates haven't been changed.
And now you're gonna if you potentially get hitby that proverbial beer truck that you're
you're talking about, you don't want your exspouse to get your retirement account Yeah.
By default because they're the beneficiaries.
Right?
So talk to the talk maybe talk a little bitabout that, like some of the probably seen all
kinds of crazy stuff in that realm.
(16:29):
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
We the example I like to give, and this this isa story that is not unique.
We were talking to an individual in Virginia.
He was married, two kids, updated his willafter divorce.
So his kids get 50% of his assets in the eventsomething happens to him.
But he didn't realize that the payable on deathbeneficiaries on his bank accounts, on his
retirement account, on his insurance policyalso had to be updated.
(16:51):
He's like, no.
The will takes care of everything.
But the issue is is that those are contractualrelationships.
So you are hiring your bank to manage your andand store your your assets, and you have told
them specifically what you want them to do.
Unless you update those directions of what youwant them to do, that contract contractual
(17:12):
direction stays in place.
So his ex wife, if the event something happenedto him, would have gotten all of his assets.
And she can always decline and say, no.
I wanted to go to these other individuals.
But legally speaking, they would have gone toher, and that might not be what he'd want
anymore to happen.
It sounds like he wanted them to go to hiskids.
So you you really need to go through and andfind the unknowns.
(17:35):
There was one individual, a widow in Maryland.
We helped her save $403,000.
Husband was in the hospital, nonresponsive, notpaying bills or just not paying bills.
And they had been paying on a life insurancepolicy in the event something happened to
either of them for decades.
And when she went through the checklist, makesure you understand what your most important
(17:58):
bills are to pay and how they're paid.
Right?
Do you know how your spouse, if you're not theone paying the bills, is actually paying them?
Is it from your bank account?
Are they sending checks monthly, weekly?
Is it on autopay?
What happens if something happens to them?
Can you get into their account?
Will the account turn off so you don't haveaccess?
So she didn't know any of this.
So she starts going through the list.
(18:20):
It turns out that the life insurance policywasn't being paid, was two days away from
terming out completely, like, final term.
She called him up, and she got an extension toovernight the check, you know, by two days just
in case the the check was delayed.
And he passed away, I think, a week or twoafter that.
She got moved out shortly after that.
She literally would have lost $403,000 becauseshe didn't mail a premium.
(18:46):
There's a lot that people don't realize, andyou shouldn't realize it because this isn't
what you do full time.
And that's why companies like buried in work.
That's why your company exists.
That's why so many others are are around isbecause if you don't know the answer, you
should be engaging a professional to help guideyou.
And and that's what we're here for.
Yeah.
I I've heard so many of those stories, man.
(19:07):
Like, my even my ex wife, her her childhoodstory is it could have been so different had
the family taken proper steps to get the youknow, their maybe in this particular case, it
was her father, state plan, in place.
They, you know, they had life insurance policyand these you know, all the documents ready for
signature, and it was on his desk and keptpostponing that signature.
(19:32):
And, you it's just one of those things that'seasy to push aside.
And, unfortunately, at eight years old, youknow, my ex wife lost her dad on the he got in
a car accident, died on the side of the road.
Yeah.
When those documents and and, you know, her hermother, my ex mother-in-law had to work, you
know, multiple jobs and work her tail off justto keep a roof over over the family's head
(19:53):
because they they didn't you know, they did thethey they took the necessary steps, but they
didn't see it to completion.
And I and I've seen that time and time again.
My dad, he was a senior executive in the IRS.
And to give you an idea of how how into it hewas, our bird's name was ERISA.
So for for those of you who who don't know whatERISA is, it stands for the Employee Retirement
(20:20):
Income Security Act.
So this is what manages and, like, dictates thelaws around Four
zero one k plans.
Retirement
plans, health plans, private sector, whatnot.
It's from the early seventies.
So he was a pretty organized guy.
If you asked him, hey, dad.
Where's your policy for this?
Or, you know, where's bill?
You go, oh, it's in the office filing cabinet,second drawer down, three files back.
(20:41):
And this is a story that I hear all the time.
My dad doesn't wanna talk to me about thisstuff because he told me, you know where the
safe is.
You know where the file is.
You know where the computer is.
But telling somebody that you know where thecomputer is, to go back to the analogy, is the
same thing as saying you know where the recipeis.
Just because you know the recipe doesn't meanthat you can actually cook it.
(21:01):
It doesn't mean that you know how to follow itwell.
You have to get the instructions in placebecause what you think might be organized for
other people isn't necessarily how they'regoing to perceive it to be.
And and if you don't have the experience, youknow, like the you know, dudes like us, we've,
you know, we've been around law for a littlewhile.
If something happens to a family member, we canlike, you or I could probably step in
(21:25):
Mhmm.
Figure out where you know, which way
is up
and and communicate with the brokeragecompanies or, you know, go to their plan
sponsor for the four zero one k plan and, youknow, their insurance company that we can
figure that out.
But but so many people aren't this is not thelife they live.
You know?
They're trades people, and they're teachers andgovernment employees or whatever.
(21:46):
Like, they this is not their wheelhouse.
So it is it's just like anything else.
It's gonna take you probably twice or threetimes as long to learn how to do this stuff
that it would be for, like, someone like you orI to come in because we can usually pick it up
and and move forward pretty quickly.
But
I We started putting them as template bundles.
And, for example, we got one for $25, and ithas let me load it up.
(22:11):
One, two.
It has 10 different templates in it.
So an account closure request, a notificationof passing, banker financial institution
notification of death, health care providernotification template, insurance company
notification of death, affidavit of airship,renunciation of executorship, release of claims
form, safety deposit access request, familyheirloom and keepsakes log.
(22:31):
This is just one of our our template bundles.
Yeah.
Fire up fire up the website.
I wanna if if fire up the website because Iwanna see those that are that are were able to
share the the video of this or want and areable to see the video, I think it's it's pretty
cool to share.
This is in the shop template section, and youget all of these individual templates.
Now if you've never gone through this, youdon't even know to ask about a safety deposit
(22:54):
access access box.
Do you know to ask that ask the individualbefore they pass away, do you have any hidden
items in your house somewhere?
I mean, my grandfather had literally, like,money hidden in his in his walls.
He was a product of the depression.
And what we've done is we've gone through.
We're gonna exit the shop here and go back tothe the main site.
Give me one second.
(23:14):
If you go information hubs and then checklists,we have a guide of what to do after someone
dies checklist that has 56 specific steps.
And you can see all of these checklists thatwe're scrolling through of what to do after
somebody dies that you're not going tonecessarily think of.
So how do you obtain verification of death andpronouncement of death?
(23:35):
How do you arrange for transfer of a body ifyou need to?
How do you notify your family of friends?
And then we start linking other to resources onthe website that can help you.
How do you collect important documents?
How are you arranging for care of pets?
And just like we said that most people aren'tnecessarily experts in this space, we're not
experts in all spaces.
So for our pet section, if we jump up and go toour information hubs, so all information hubs,
(23:58):
there's literally more than 50 of them now.
You can go down to the Pet Legacy and Care one.
Like, literally, we we get as detailed asMuslim end of life traditions, Jewish end of
life traditions.
We've got Christian end of life traditions.
We've got a podcast directory.
But if you go back to the Pet Legacy and Careone, we didn't know all the answers, so we
engaged local veterinarians to help us figureout what questions needed to be asked.
(24:20):
This is incredible.
We we were in the hospital or we we were hereand somebody called us up and said, I'm in the
hospital.
I'm sitting in the waiting room outside wheremy mom is.
She hit her head.
I'm not calling about my mom.
And there's people that are complaining thatthey keep getting either two or four rolls of
toilet paper from Amazon on auto order everytwo or four weeks, and they can't stop it.
(24:40):
What do they do?
I mean, I don't know what they do.
So we went out and we hired some people, and wereached out to a hundred of the largest
companies in the country.
And now if you wanna shut down things fromAmazon, here's the free database.
Again, this is all free of how to reach out toAmazon if you need to shut an account.
And then we said, well, we we should take thisa little bit farther, and we started an
(25:01):
initiative called ask three questions.
And these are the three specific questions thatyou should ask of every single account and
policy that you have.
If you can answer these questions, it justsaves you and your loved ones a ton of time and
the reason why you should ask.
And if you don't wanna just ask and write thequestions down, you we have a free estate
planning bundle, literally free right now, $0,and it'll give you that worksheet for ask three
(25:25):
questions.
Love it.
But the thing is, on average, are outliving menfive point eight years in this country.
And if you look at traditional family values,older generation, it's it's more prevalent.
It's not that women can't pay their bills.
(25:45):
It's not that they're incapable.
It's that they haven't because the men havejust done it more often.
So we're about to have millions of women inthis country in a situation that's just
uncomfortable because they're figuring thingsout for the first time when they're older in
life during a time of grief that should beeasier.
And what we're trying to do is make it sopeople don't have to go through things like my
(26:07):
mom would have had to go through if I wasn'taround.
And when people reach out and say I needsomething, we go out and we build it for me.
Someone said, hey.
Can you teach me?
So we created a financial literacy for spousescourse.
It's five hours long, five different sessions,and we'll walk you through the basics of what
you need to know.
We actually just formed a a nonprofit lastweek.
We got approval for it.
So we got the Maryland state side, and we'redoing federal next, and we'll be helping
(26:30):
underserved communities.
And we're just doing what we can help out.
Yeah.
This is so incredibly important too.
There's I don't I again, I've been doing thiswork for almost twenty years now.
And, I mean, obviously, there's some, you know,like, digital estate planning options that are
out there where you can go to websites andcreate your create your documents and
everything else.
But this is something I've never seen before.
(26:53):
Yeah.
It's it's something special.
It's not just me.
There's a lot of people that are involved invarious capacities.
Can I show you something else, actually?
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is one of my favorite parts of the site.
So I've got a quirky sense of humor.
I get it from my dad buried in work like wetalked about the pun.
To give you an idea, he's in the hospital.
He's probably six days away from dying.
He knows a lot of the nurses because he's beenin and out of there for a little while now.
(27:16):
Nurse comes in.
I'm just gonna call her name Jamie.
Uh-huh.
Jamie comes in and he goes, hey, Jamie.
Why is a giraffe's neck so long?
And Jamie looking, Andy, what are you talkingabout?
Like, I gotta take your vitals.
And without missing a beat, deadpan, so it'snot gonna reach his head.
Just like ridiculousness.
Right?
(27:36):
And and it's that perspective that we're tryingto bring to buried in work is that it's a
really serious topic, but you can have fun withit too.
So we went out and we created the lighter sideof Buried in Work.
So there's products like mugs.
My dog inherits everything.
Don't touch it because of no idea.
Toe tag socks for for few directors.
(28:01):
We've got candles.
Like, the woody burn bridges candles for thethe people in your family that aren't getting
getting along.
The the woody living will one, this is great.
Let me see what it says.
A document for telling people what to do withyou before you become a permanent exhibit.
Like, there's just so many silly things.
(28:22):
World's okay as executor.
It's a really serious topic, but we have to behaving these conversations and we have to
normalize them.
And this is really what burial work is about.
Love it, man.
So this is I would say this is what I call thecarte blanche segment of our show, and I know
you shared a bunch about the work you're doing,the website, all the benefits that are
available, and so on.
(28:42):
But anything that you know, any questions Ishould have asked or anything you wanna share
that would be important for our listeners tohear?
Yeah.
Should have asked.
I'll focus on one thing that we touched on butdidn't really dive into.
Our clear kits are our methodology oforganizing all your information.
So it's a comprehensive legacy in the stateadministration resource kit.
(29:05):
Hurrah.
It's acronym.
It's really detailed.
And to the point where some people say it's toodetailed.
It comes on a USB as well, custom manufacturedbinders, high quality for leather that zip
close so you don't lose anything.
The USB or forms that you can fill outprofessionally designed that link back to our
website.
It's an ecosystem.
So you can actually fill them out and yourfamily members will appreciate it.
(29:27):
But these are really thick.
We wanted to make it a little bit easier forpeople.
So we now have a light version of the kit,which is less expensive as well.
And then we took that a step further, and wecreated something that's called the executor
summary report.
Now every clear kit also includes the executorsummary report.
But this is something that you should do as afirst step.
(29:48):
In thirty minutes, just about, you can providea report to your family members.
You don't have to give it to them, but have it.
That says, do you have a will?
Yes.
No.
Where is the will?
What's your residence history for unclaimedproperty searches?
What's your marriage history?
What's your citizens citizenship status?
The last will and testament, trust, advanceddirectives.
Do you have a bank account?
(30:08):
Where are they?
We'll give them your bank account information,but it'll tell them what banks you bank with so
they don't have to go on that scavenger hunt.
But in thirty minutes for $50, it's on saleright now, you can go in and create this.
And trust me, your family members will be veryhappy you did.
As the former deputy chief technologist forNASA said, which is not related to estate
planning, but I trust his judgment if he canliterally send, you know, missions to Mars and
(30:32):
Pluto.
Leave your heirs the gift of organization.
Mhmm.
And that's what's on the side of our box.
Yeah.
It's amazing, man.
Well, I appreciate all that insight and andyour I mean, just your experience with all this
stuff.
It's it's incredible.
I mean, I could I feel like I pound the tableon this stuff all the time with clients and and
(30:53):
people that we've worked with over the yearsand but it's it's it's good to hear from
somebody else who has the whole experience andand really see a fresh perspective on it.
So appreciate you, man.
Thanks for thanks so much for sharing.
Hey, Jamie.
Happy to be here.
And what you guys are doing at Allegiant isabsolutely fantastic as well.
Appreciate you having me on.
Absolutely.
So for listeners who wish to explore theresources and tools that are offered by Buried
(31:15):
at Work, visit buriedandwork.com.
If you're driving, don't worry.
We're gonna make sure the links are in the shownotes and everything so you can get access to
all this credible information.
And remember, if you're facing difficultdecisions regarding estate planning or need
just financial guidance overall pertaining toyour divorce, Allegiant Divorce Solutions is
here to assist.
Visit allegiantds.com for more resources, andyou can also book a compliment complimentary
(31:38):
and confidential conversation with myself orone of our team members on the website.
And don't forget to subscribe to our podcastfor more empowering discussions.
And until next time, we'll see you again.
Welcome back to another episode of broke up,not broken.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Jamie Lima and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions.
We help people prepare for, navigate, andrecover financially from divorce.
This podcast is your one stop shop formastering your life and your finances
throughout the entire divorce process.
Welcome to today's episode where we're joinedby Adam Zuckerman, founder of Buried and Work,
a comprehensive platform designed to streamlineand simplify end of life planning.
(00:26):
After managing his father's affairs during achallenging illness, Adam was inspired to
create resources that aid individuals andfamilies in preparing for life's hardest
moments.
Today, we're gonna delve into how hisinnovative tools and guides can support those
dealing with complex estate and financialplanning issues, during and in the wake of
divorce.
(00:46):
And I'm super happy to have you here, man,because I was a guest on your show, which is
awesome.
So we're gonna plug that here as well.
So people that haven't had a chance to tolisten to Adam's show, I'm gonna make sure we
get all the show links and everything else tooso they can hear your wonderful voice.
Share all all about all things estate planning.
But, man, good to see you again.
Thanks for thanks for joining me today.
Hey.
Great to be here, Jamie.
Thanks for having.
(01:06):
%, man.
So so let's just kick it off.
Right?
So we we had a chance to talk on your showabout little bit about the work that we do and
helping people navigate some of the thefinancial nuances of a divorce.
One of the things that I'm passionate about andhave been for many, many years is and even
though it's very boring to some folks, is theestate planning.
Right?
Estate planning that goes into not only forthose that aren't going through a divorce,
(01:29):
everybody needs to have an estate plan.
Right?
Who's gonna take care of your stuff after youpass away?
And especially if you have kids, how are yougonna make sure they're taken care of if
something were to happen to you?
But we see this all the time in the middle ofpeople going through a divorce or or they
finalize their divorce, and they don't have anyof these things in place.
So, you know, I I I think this is gonna be agreat great message for those people that are
(01:50):
out there that are in that situation to hearfrom you today.
But why you kick it off, man?
Let us learn more about who you are and andkind of how you got into this realm.
Yeah.
So I appreciate that.
And it's funny when you say you need an estateplan.
You don't need an estate plan.
Everybody has an estate plan.
Mhmm.
And I think that that's one of the largestmisconceptions in the country is that people
(02:10):
think, oh, I don't need one.
I don't have a lot of assets.
I don't need an estate plan.
But the reality is is that regardless ofwhether you create a will or a trust or
advanced directives or anything, you know, inbetween in this in this world of estate
planning and end of life tasks.
You have an estate plan because if you don'ttake action yourself, the state creates one for
you.
So if you don't want the state to dictate whathappens to your stuff and who gets it, you
(02:33):
should actually take some action.
By default.
Yep.
Yep.
By default.
I've got a weird background.
I'm an attorney.
I have an MBA.
I've worked in finance at a hedge fund and grewto $1,200,000,000 while I was there.
I was Discovery Channel's parent companies,intrapreneur, and futurist at one point in
time, which meant I was investing in startupsand traveling around the world, teaching people
about technology.
(02:54):
I was selling nuclear power plants to primeministers at at one point in career.
And I did not expect that I would be running acompany that is now being called the most
comprehensive estate planning and end of liferesource in the country.
Mhmm.
But it's the most fulfilling thing I've everdone, which is wonderful.
And how I got here is a very strange story.
(03:18):
So my father was at my house, and we're workingon a project in the basement.
He walks up the stairs, he goes, Adam, I'mtired.
And when he says he's tired, it's differentthan when we say it.
When you say it or I say it, we take a nap.
We drink some coffee.
We push through.
When he says it, he goes to Johns HopkinsHospital in Baltimore.
And the reason why is six and a half yearsprior to when he told me that, he was diagnosed
(03:39):
with leukemia for the first time.
Mhmm.
So I actually donated bone marrow to him.
I oftentimes teased him after that that he justkept me around for spare parts.
It's kind of a relationship that we had.
And he goes to the doctor after telling me thathe has test on on a Tuesday, checks in on
Thursday, and he dies twelve days later.
Super quick.
(03:59):
Yeah.
Heavy.
But in the in hindsight 2020, it actuallyhappened in a really nice way.
We were able to fly relatives in that needed tosee him or wanted to see him.
He was with it.
We could say goodbye, and so many people justdon't have that opportunity.
We were able to get six and a half years extratime because Hopkins was so good at what they
do.
And he got to meet my my sister's kids who nowhave memories of him as they've grown up.
(04:23):
They're they're teenagers now.
Like, if it had to happen, it it happened in aa nice way, all things considered, but f
cancer.
So I was named the executor on the will becauseI'm an attorney, and that's who my parents
chose.
My mom's still around.
And I started taking really diligent notes ofevery single thing that that I did.
On this date, this time, I called this person.
I followed up with this template.
(04:43):
Here's the status of the account, x y z.
So, like, when somebody's getting a divorce,you have to do the inventory, the marshaling of
the assets, right, which you help so many ofyour clients with.
And when I met with my mom's financial adviserto show her what I had put together and where
we were in the process, at the end of theconversation, she said, Adam, this is the most
comprehensive transition I've ever seen.
(05:04):
And the devil on my shoulder were the same age.
We grew up watching TV, you know, give or takea few years, I've got more gray hair than you
do.
But I went gray at 18.
Devil pops up on my shoulder.
Can I curse?
Am I allowed to curse on your show?
I don't know.
%.
Okay.
Adam, she's full of shit.
She does she knows that you have financialpower of attorney for your mom.
She just doesn't want you to move your mom'smoney to another another professional.
(05:26):
Mhmm.
Angel pops up on my other shoulder.
Adam, it's pretty organized.
Maybe she's maybe she's actually telling youthe truth.
Think about it.
And that's what I did.
I thought about it.
I showed some friends what I put together.
I showed some people that were my mom's agewhat I put together, and every single person
said, you know how to build a website.
Build a website, share a few notes, share a fewchecklists, just help a few people out, and be
(05:50):
done with it.
That's literally what I thought I was doingwhen I started buried in work.
I came up with a punny name because no one'sgonna find, like, the Adam Zuckerman estate
planning blog.
So buried in work, pun.
I made a silly logo.
It's actually a casket if you look at it.
So the the bee and the buried is somebody'shead.
And I posted the next door LinkedIn Facebookthat I had created this website, and I hope
(06:11):
that people find it valuable.
And I was not prepared for what happened next.
In one week, we had over 10,000 visitors to thewebsite.
Good job.
Yep.
My inbox filled up with messages of thank youfor doing this.
It's a great memory of your dad.
He'd be very proud of you, which means a lot tohear that.
It's emotional.
(06:31):
Yep.
But then the the messages started shifting to,this is a great checklist that tells me what to
do, but I want someone to help me do it.
And it's grown since then.
We now have 50 plus information hubs, 15guides, 20 plus directories, a hundred plus
checklist, 2,000 plus articles.
Literally down to the details of, if you needto close an account with Amazon, here's the
(06:52):
customer service, you know, account and who youneed to email, and here are templates you can
buy or utilize.
Sometimes they're free.
Sometimes they're for purchase depending on thetype, to reach out to them.
We have two card games, nothing left unsaid,and one more story that were developed.
Literally, game designers, so when youphysically feel them, the the touch and feel of
the cards are matte linen feels so people withdexterity issues can hold them.
(07:13):
One more story is about capturing stories, sixcategories, 26 questions.
Nothing left unsaid is the quick version ofwhat we have called the clear kit, and I'll
talk a little bit about that.
That says, do you have a will?
Do you have a trust?
You know, identifying your state information.
And a podcast like you mentioned earlier how wemet, and now I'm doing it full time.
(07:35):
So that's the story of of how we got to wherewe are, and things are are oddly fantastically.
Yeah.
We really enjoy helping people, so it's it'snice to be doing what we're doing.
And it's it's kinda like the work we do on thedivorce side.
Right?
Like, it's almost you know, I mean, everybody'sgonna pass away.
I mean, we're all we're we all have, you know,limited time on this planet.
(07:55):
And and like you said, everybody's gonna needthis type of service whether by design or by
default, they're gonna they're gonna put it inplace.
But, you know, it's these morbid things thatpeople don't wanna talk about, but they
absolutely have to.
And and, you know, unfortunately, fifty percentof the people we know are gonna go through a
divorce.
Right?
And and a hundred percent of the people we knoware gonna pass away.
(08:15):
So this is I think it's noble work that you do,man.
That's why I am so pumped that, we had a chanceto connect and and do some work together.
But I I wanted to just to go back a smidgebecause a lot of people that a lot of people
that that tune in are really just trying tounderstand how all this stuff works.
Mhmm.
Like, they like, you've you've said it a coupletimes, you know, the power of attorneys and the
(08:36):
living trust and the living will and the trustand so on.
Can you just elaborate a little bit on thoseitems just so people that don't have the
experience know what we're talking about?
Alright.
So first thing I'll say is absolutely we can dothat.
If you want more information, come to ourwebsite.
90% of what we have is free.
We have free guides, introduction to estateplanning, free guides, difference between wills
(08:57):
and trusts, free checklist, as you considerthis, do x y z.
Your situation is unique just like everybodyelse's also.
If somebody says you need this without actuallyasking you about your situation first, they are
not somebody that you should be working with.
Okay?
So we'll start there.
When most people talk about estate planning inthe country, they think about having a will or
(09:18):
a trust.
Those are two mechanisms that help you transferyour assets, what you own, your possessions, in
the event something were to happen to you.
A will is not better than a trust.
A trust is not better than a will.
They do different things.
So a will is public.
It gets filed with a local jurisdiction wherethe individual dies and says, this is what I
(09:38):
wanna have happen to my stuff.
A trust also says, this is what I wanna havehappen to my stuff, but it provides different
mechanisms of privacy so you don't have to filethat with the state and has different tax
implications and different restrictions of howit's managed.
So you may we've all heard the term, like, atrust fund, baby.
That means that someone created a trust.
(10:00):
There's multiple different types.
You can read about them on the website.
To have assets in a bucket, and I'msimplifying, for the benefit of another
individual.
And the trustee is the person who manages thattrust to make sure that the assets are
distributed the way they're supposed to do.
And they can have them revocable, irrevocable,whatnot.
So think of it this way.
(10:20):
If you have anything, you have a shirt on yourback, that's what a will does.
If you have a lot of assets, then you startlooking at trust.
So that's like the basic basic one zero one.
Is there a rule of thumb between using one orthe other?
In in California, we're I'm I'm located inCalifornia.
And and our kind of the guideline that we'vealways been given is if you have more than a
(10:43):
hundred and $50,000 in assets, because in thestate of California, there's such thing as
called small probate, and it's very much muchmore streamlined probate process here.
Is that the same in most states, or is this iswhat are your thoughts on that?
Yeah.
So we actually have state specific probate onezero one guides for every single state.
Yep.
And we don't say that there is a specificthreshold or limit of when you should do this.
(11:06):
It's more of a totality of your situation.
So if you have one child and there is nopotential of arguments among siblings, if you
don't have a blended family, if you haven'tbeen divorced, it's a very straightforward
situation.
You can pass a million dollars through that.
Right?
It's not a problem.
But you should be working with an attorney, andwhat we say is if you have more than 250,000 or
(11:27):
$500,000 depending on where you live, youshould start considering some of those other
mechanisms for deferred transfers or simplifiedtransfer or even private transfer.
That's where trust come.
But there's no, like, bright line.
If you have this, then you have to do this.
Got it.
What you should though do is create your willwhen you're 18 for tomorrow and update it and
(11:48):
it evolves with you as you get older.
And we say, update your will every April 16 toreview it to see if there are any things that
need to be updated.
So have you had a lit a major life event?
Have you gotten married?
Have you moved?
Did you change jobs?
Have you opened bank accounts?
You know?
Did you buy a car?
Did you sell a car?
You know?
All the things that that you might wanna thinkabout.
Did you have a kid?
Have your kid's now aged over 18, so you don'tneed a guardianship designation for them.
(12:12):
So that's the the basis of a will and a trust.
When we talk about advanced directives, theymean different things in different places.
In some states, an advanced directive is aspecific legal form that needs to be filled
out, and in other places, it's a generality ofa form.
But what advanced directives do is it allowsother people to act on your behalf in the event
(12:34):
that you're unable to act on your own behalf.
So, Jamie, if you get hit by a bus and you'rein a coma, you're not dead yet.
So we haven't triggered, you know, your will oryour trust or any of those provisions that that
may come into play, but you're just not able toadvocate.
Who do you want making decisions for you?
That's what power of attorney is.
You can have it just for medical decisions.
(12:56):
You can have it just for financial decisions.
You can revoke those powers that you give, andthose powers also end as soon as you pass away.
So I'm really sorry, Jamie.
You got hit by a bus.
I was acting on your behalf.
You died.
I can no longer access your bank accounts if Iwas I had financial power of attorney because
you are no longer alive.
(13:16):
So I am no longer your representative, whoeveryou have as your trustee or your estate
executive or the minister that gets designatedby the court.
That person can do that.
So those are your main buckets, you know, youradvanced directives, power of attorneys, your
wills, your trusts.
That's where we think a lot of people makemistakes.
Now on average, it takes five hundred andseventy hours or more to administer an estate
(13:38):
in The United States.
Divorces are complicated.
Administrating in the state is complicated.
And the more divorces you have, the more familymembers, the more complications of assets and
everything, the more complicated the situationis.
So to draw an analogy, Jamie, you're comingover for dinner tonight.
What are we cooking?
I think we want some steak tonight.
Okay.
We're making steaks.
We've got some rib eyes.
(13:59):
Yep.
Perfect.
Right.
We're gonna open up a nice bottle of wine withit maybe.
Maybe a beer too, you know, potatoes, bakedpotatoes.
It'd be great.
So you come over, everything's on the counter.
We start cooking, game's on, watch game, goodto go.
But if you come over to make steaks, and Idon't tell you that I'm not home, but you're
supposed to be there.
(14:19):
I don't tell you that the steaks are frozen inthe freezer downstairs, but to find the
freezer, you actually have to move boxes that Iput in front of it.
Right?
It's gonna take us a lot longer or you a lotlonger to make dinner.
And that's exactly what's happening to so manyAmericans.
Ten to 12,000 Americans turn 65 every singleday.
Right?
This is a problem that is only going to getmore complicated.
(14:41):
And we're sending loved ones and family memberson these scavenger hunts that if I just called
you up and said, hey.
I'm stuck in the office.
I'm gonna be twenty five minutes late.
Here's the keypad to the garage.
Go inside.
Go downstairs.
Get the steak.
Start defrosting them.
That would be really easy instead of juststanding around waiting for me to come over,
right, to help out.
And that's what we're trying to help people todo.
(15:02):
Is if you don't know what you need to know,come to us, find another company, go to you.
I I don't care.
Just just start and organize your informationso your family members don't go on that
scavenger hunt.
And once you start organizing your information,you're going to identify, oh, I need to update
my will.
Oh, I should be evaluating this.
Oh, I should be planning my funeral.
Oh, I should making these decisions now.
(15:24):
So when it is the time to actually, you know,engage these these systems that you've put in
place, your family members aren't leftscrambling in a grief.
Love the analogy.
Now I want steak, but more importantly, I wantmore importantly, I I this is this is great
because this is also so incredibly importantpost divorce because those there are two
(15:46):
things.
One, either people that don't have any of thesethings in place and then they and they fail to
put them in place and now they you know, thebeneficiaries are taken care of and they don't
we have no idea.
Like, the family members are gonna come in.
They don't know where where any of the bodiesare buried, so to speak.
Right?
That's a appropriate analogy, I think.
But, like, you have that challenge.
But secondarily, I what I've seen is we havethese divorces that are finalized, and things
(16:08):
like beneficiary updates haven't been changed.
And now you're gonna if you potentially get hitby that proverbial beer truck that you're
you're talking about, you don't want your exspouse to get your retirement account Yeah.
By default because they're the beneficiaries.
Right?
So talk to the talk maybe talk a little bitabout that, like some of the probably seen all
kinds of crazy stuff in that realm.
(16:29):
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
We the example I like to give, and this this isa story that is not unique.
We were talking to an individual in Virginia.
He was married, two kids, updated his willafter divorce.
So his kids get 50% of his assets in the eventsomething happens to him.
But he didn't realize that the payable on deathbeneficiaries on his bank accounts, on his
retirement account, on his insurance policyalso had to be updated.
(16:51):
He's like, no.
The will takes care of everything.
But the issue is is that those are contractualrelationships.
So you are hiring your bank to manage your andand store your your assets, and you have told
them specifically what you want them to do.
Unless you update those directions of what youwant them to do, that contract contractual
(17:12):
direction stays in place.
So his ex wife, if the event something happenedto him, would have gotten all of his assets.
And she can always decline and say, no.
I wanted to go to these other individuals.
But legally speaking, they would have gone toher, and that might not be what he'd want
anymore to happen.
It sounds like he wanted them to go to hiskids.
So you you really need to go through and andfind the unknowns.
(17:35):
There was one individual, a widow in Maryland.
We helped her save $403,000.
Husband was in the hospital, nonresponsive, notpaying bills or just not paying bills.
And they had been paying on a life insurancepolicy in the event something happened to
either of them for decades.
And when she went through the checklist, makesure you understand what your most important
(17:58):
bills are to pay and how they're paid.
Right?
Do you know how your spouse, if you're not theone paying the bills, is actually paying them?
Is it from your bank account?
Are they sending checks monthly, weekly?
Is it on autopay?
What happens if something happens to them?
Can you get into their account?
Will the account turn off so you don't haveaccess?
So she didn't know any of this.
So she starts going through the list.
(18:20):
It turns out that the life insurance policywasn't being paid, was two days away from
terming out completely, like, final term.
She called him up, and she got an extension toovernight the check, you know, by two days just
in case the the check was delayed.
And he passed away, I think, a week or twoafter that.
She got moved out shortly after that.
She literally would have lost $403,000 becauseshe didn't mail a premium.
(18:46):
There's a lot that people don't realize, andyou shouldn't realize it because this isn't
what you do full time.
And that's why companies like buried in work.
That's why your company exists.
That's why so many others are are around isbecause if you don't know the answer, you
should be engaging a professional to help guideyou.
And and that's what we're here for.
Yeah.
I I've heard so many of those stories, man.
(19:07):
Like, my even my ex wife, her her childhoodstory is it could have been so different had
the family taken proper steps to get the youknow, their maybe in this particular case, it
was her father, state plan, in place.
They, you know, they had life insurance policyand these you know, all the documents ready for
signature, and it was on his desk and keptpostponing that signature.
(19:32):
And, you it's just one of those things that'seasy to push aside.
And, unfortunately, at eight years old, youknow, my ex wife lost her dad on the he got in
a car accident, died on the side of the road.
Yeah.
When those documents and and, you know, her hermother, my ex mother-in-law had to work, you
know, multiple jobs and work her tail off justto keep a roof over over the family's head
(19:53):
because they they didn't you know, they did thethey they took the necessary steps, but they
didn't see it to completion.
And I and I've seen that time and time again.
My dad, he was a senior executive in the IRS.
And to give you an idea of how how into it hewas, our bird's name was ERISA.
So for for those of you who who don't know whatERISA is, it stands for the Employee Retirement
(20:20):
Income Security Act.
So this is what manages and, like, dictates thelaws around Four
zero one k plans.
Retirement
plans, health plans, private sector, whatnot.
It's from the early seventies.
So he was a pretty organized guy.
If you asked him, hey, dad.
Where's your policy for this?
Or, you know, where's bill?
You go, oh, it's in the office filing cabinet,second drawer down, three files back.
(20:41):
And this is a story that I hear all the time.
My dad doesn't wanna talk to me about thisstuff because he told me, you know where the
safe is.
You know where the file is.
You know where the computer is.
But telling somebody that you know where thecomputer is, to go back to the analogy, is the
same thing as saying you know where the recipeis.
Just because you know the recipe doesn't meanthat you can actually cook it.
(21:01):
It doesn't mean that you know how to follow itwell.
You have to get the instructions in placebecause what you think might be organized for
other people isn't necessarily how they'regoing to perceive it to be.
And and if you don't have the experience, youknow, like the you know, dudes like us, we've,
you know, we've been around law for a littlewhile.
If something happens to a family member, we canlike, you or I could probably step in
(21:25):
Mhmm.
Figure out where you know, which way
is up
and and communicate with the brokeragecompanies or, you know, go to their plan
sponsor for the four zero one k plan and, youknow, their insurance company that we can
figure that out.
But but so many people aren't this is not thelife they live.
You know?
They're trades people, and they're teachers andgovernment employees or whatever.
(21:46):
Like, they this is not their wheelhouse.
So it is it's just like anything else.
It's gonna take you probably twice or threetimes as long to learn how to do this stuff
that it would be for, like, someone like you orI to come in because we can usually pick it up
and and move forward pretty quickly.
But
I We started putting them as template bundles.
And, for example, we got one for $25, and ithas let me load it up.
(22:11):
One, two.
It has 10 different templates in it.
So an account closure request, a notificationof passing, banker financial institution
notification of death, health care providernotification template, insurance company
notification of death, affidavit of airship,renunciation of executorship, release of claims
form, safety deposit access request, familyheirloom and keepsakes log.
(22:31):
This is just one of our our template bundles.
Yeah.
Fire up fire up the website.
I wanna if if fire up the website because Iwanna see those that are that are were able to
share the the video of this or want and areable to see the video, I think it's it's pretty
cool to share.
This is in the shop template section, and youget all of these individual templates.
Now if you've never gone through this, youdon't even know to ask about a safety deposit
(22:54):
access access box.
Do you know to ask that ask the individualbefore they pass away, do you have any hidden
items in your house somewhere?
I mean, my grandfather had literally, like,money hidden in his in his walls.
He was a product of the depression.
And what we've done is we've gone through.
We're gonna exit the shop here and go back tothe the main site.
Give me one second.
(23:14):
If you go information hubs and then checklists,we have a guide of what to do after someone
dies checklist that has 56 specific steps.
And you can see all of these checklists thatwe're scrolling through of what to do after
somebody dies that you're not going tonecessarily think of.
So how do you obtain verification of death andpronouncement of death?
(23:35):
How do you arrange for transfer of a body ifyou need to?
How do you notify your family of friends?
And then we start linking other to resources onthe website that can help you.
How do you collect important documents?
How are you arranging for care of pets?
And just like we said that most people aren'tnecessarily experts in this space, we're not
experts in all spaces.
So for our pet section, if we jump up and go toour information hubs, so all information hubs,
(23:58):
there's literally more than 50 of them now.
You can go down to the Pet Legacy and Care one.
Like, literally, we we get as detailed asMuslim end of life traditions, Jewish end of
life traditions.
We've got Christian end of life traditions.
We've got a podcast directory.
But if you go back to the Pet Legacy and Careone, we didn't know all the answers, so we
engaged local veterinarians to help us figureout what questions needed to be asked.
(24:20):
This is incredible.
We we were in the hospital or we we were hereand somebody called us up and said, I'm in the
hospital.
I'm sitting in the waiting room outside wheremy mom is.
She hit her head.
I'm not calling about my mom.
And there's people that are complaining thatthey keep getting either two or four rolls of
toilet paper from Amazon on auto order everytwo or four weeks, and they can't stop it.
(24:40):
What do they do?
I mean, I don't know what they do.
So we went out and we hired some people, and wereached out to a hundred of the largest
companies in the country.
And now if you wanna shut down things fromAmazon, here's the free database.
Again, this is all free of how to reach out toAmazon if you need to shut an account.
And then we said, well, we we should take thisa little bit farther, and we started an
(25:01):
initiative called ask three questions.
And these are the three specific questions thatyou should ask of every single account and
policy that you have.
If you can answer these questions, it justsaves you and your loved ones a ton of time and
the reason why you should ask.
And if you don't wanna just ask and write thequestions down, you we have a free estate
planning bundle, literally free right now, $0,and it'll give you that worksheet for ask three
(25:25):
questions.
Love it.
But the thing is, on average, are outliving menfive point eight years in this country.
And if you look at traditional family values,older generation, it's it's more prevalent.
It's not that women can't pay their bills.
(25:45):
It's not that they're incapable.
It's that they haven't because the men havejust done it more often.
So we're about to have millions of women inthis country in a situation that's just
uncomfortable because they're figuring thingsout for the first time when they're older in
life during a time of grief that should beeasier.
And what we're trying to do is make it sopeople don't have to go through things like my
(26:07):
mom would have had to go through if I wasn'taround.
And when people reach out and say I needsomething, we go out and we build it for me.
Someone said, hey.
Can you teach me?
So we created a financial literacy for spousescourse.
It's five hours long, five different sessions,and we'll walk you through the basics of what
you need to know.
We actually just formed a a nonprofit lastweek.
We got approval for it.
So we got the Maryland state side, and we'redoing federal next, and we'll be helping
(26:30):
underserved communities.
And we're just doing what we can help out.
Yeah.
This is so incredibly important too.
There's I don't I again, I've been doing thiswork for almost twenty years now.
And, I mean, obviously, there's some, you know,like, digital estate planning options that are
out there where you can go to websites andcreate your create your documents and
everything else.
But this is something I've never seen before.
(26:53):
Yeah.
It's it's something special.
It's not just me.
There's a lot of people that are involved invarious capacities.
Can I show you something else, actually?
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is one of my favorite parts of the site.
So I've got a quirky sense of humor.
I get it from my dad buried in work like wetalked about the pun.
To give you an idea, he's in the hospital.
He's probably six days away from dying.
He knows a lot of the nurses because he's beenin and out of there for a little while now.
(27:16):
Nurse comes in.
I'm just gonna call her name Jamie.
Uh-huh.
Jamie comes in and he goes, hey, Jamie.
Why is a giraffe's neck so long?
And Jamie looking, Andy, what are you talkingabout?
Like, I gotta take your vitals.
And without missing a beat, deadpan, so it'snot gonna reach his head.
Just like ridiculousness.
Right?
(27:36):
And and it's that perspective that we're tryingto bring to buried in work is that it's a
really serious topic, but you can have fun withit too.
So we went out and we created the lighter sideof Buried in Work.
So there's products like mugs.
My dog inherits everything.
Don't touch it because of no idea.
Toe tag socks for for few directors.
(28:01):
We've got candles.
Like, the woody burn bridges candles for thethe people in your family that aren't getting
getting along.
The the woody living will one, this is great.
Let me see what it says.
A document for telling people what to do withyou before you become a permanent exhibit.
Like, there's just so many silly things.
(28:22):
World's okay as executor.
It's a really serious topic, but we have to behaving these conversations and we have to
normalize them.
And this is really what burial work is about.
Love it, man.
So this is I would say this is what I call thecarte blanche segment of our show, and I know
you shared a bunch about the work you're doing,the website, all the benefits that are
available, and so on.
(28:42):
But anything that you know, any questions Ishould have asked or anything you wanna share
that would be important for our listeners tohear?
Yeah.
Should have asked.
I'll focus on one thing that we touched on butdidn't really dive into.
Our clear kits are our methodology oforganizing all your information.
So it's a comprehensive legacy in the stateadministration resource kit.
(29:05):
Hurrah.
It's acronym.
It's really detailed.
And to the point where some people say it's toodetailed.
It comes on a USB as well, custom manufacturedbinders, high quality for leather that zip
close so you don't lose anything.
The USB or forms that you can fill outprofessionally designed that link back to our
website.
It's an ecosystem.
So you can actually fill them out and yourfamily members will appreciate it.
(29:27):
But these are really thick.
We wanted to make it a little bit easier forpeople.
So we now have a light version of the kit,which is less expensive as well.
And then we took that a step further, and wecreated something that's called the executor
summary report.
Now every clear kit also includes the executorsummary report.
But this is something that you should do as afirst step.
(29:48):
In thirty minutes, just about, you can providea report to your family members.
You don't have to give it to them, but have it.
That says, do you have a will?
Yes.
No.
Where is the will?
What's your residence history for unclaimedproperty searches?
What's your marriage history?
What's your citizens citizenship status?
The last will and testament, trust, advanceddirectives.
Do you have a bank account?
(30:08):
Where are they?
We'll give them your bank account information,but it'll tell them what banks you bank with so
they don't have to go on that scavenger hunt.
But in thirty minutes for $50, it's on saleright now, you can go in and create this.
And trust me, your family members will be veryhappy you did.
As the former deputy chief technologist forNASA said, which is not related to estate
planning, but I trust his judgment if he canliterally send, you know, missions to Mars and
(30:32):
Pluto.
Leave your heirs the gift of organization.
Mhmm.
And that's what's on the side of our box.
Yeah.
It's amazing, man.
Well, I appreciate all that insight and andyour I mean, just your experience with all this
stuff.
It's it's incredible.
I mean, I could I feel like I pound the tableon this stuff all the time with clients and and
(30:53):
people that we've worked with over the yearsand but it's it's it's good to hear from
somebody else who has the whole experience andand really see a fresh perspective on it.
So appreciate you, man.
Thanks for thanks so much for sharing.
Hey, Jamie.
Happy to be here.
And what you guys are doing at Allegiant isabsolutely fantastic as well.
Appreciate you having me on.
Absolutely.
So for listeners who wish to explore theresources and tools that are offered by Buried
(31:15):
at Work, visit buriedandwork.com.
If you're driving, don't worry.
We're gonna make sure the links are in the shownotes and everything so you can get access to
all this credible information.
And remember, if you're facing difficultdecisions regarding estate planning or need
just financial guidance overall pertaining toyour divorce, Allegiant Divorce Solutions is
here to assist.
Visit allegiantds.com for more resources, andyou can also book a compliment complimentary
(31:38):
and confidential conversation with myself orone of our team members on the website.
And don't forget to subscribe to our podcastfor more empowering discussions.
And until next time, we'll see you again.
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