Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of broke up,not broken.
(00:03):
I'm your host, Jamie Lima and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions, where we help
people prepare for, navigate, and recoverfinancially from divorce.
This podcast is your one stop shop formastering your life and your finances
throughout the entire divorce process.
In today's episode, I'm super excited to haveChelsea Williams, the founder of Core Solutions
(00:23):
Group and Money Mastery, and the host of theAlways and Never About Money podcast.
Chelsea brings over a decade of accountingexperience specifically tailored to helping law
firm owners streamline their financialstrategies for long term success.
Today, we're gonna dive into how financialdiscipline and strategic planning can transform
your business and personal finances whileyou're going through or in the wake of divorce.
(00:47):
Chelsea, it's so great to have you here with ustoday.
I'm excited.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
No problem.
I know, as we were talking about in the lead upto our our conversation here today that we both
have some experience with people that are goingthrough divorce amicably.
I I'm now married to a a a gal who had a veryamicable divorce and sounds like yours was as
(01:08):
well.
So maybe walk us through that and see and talka little bit about how, you know, that impacted
your finances and what your experience was likethere.
Yeah.
And I don't know about you and your experience,but I feel like we're the minority.
I hear, like, more often than not, it's kind oflike this fight and this battle.
And so I'm really grateful to have been marriedto someone who because it takes two, right,
(01:30):
where we could go through that process.
And, I mean, we were so nonchalant and fairabout it.
Like, when we got a divorce, I was two yearsinto starting my first business, Core Solutions
Group, and I had built it.
We did over 6 figures in our first twelvemonths.
Like, it was great, and there was plenty thatwe could have thought about.
We had accumulated rental properties by thetime it came.
(01:53):
And, I mean, we were basically like, hey.
Look.
This is your business.
I don't want anything from your business.
And I told him, like, I hate rental properties.
The only reason we got into it is because heliked doing that stuff.
I hated it.
So I'm like, you take the most of that.
I don't want any of that headache.
And we really just, you know, figured outsomething that was fair for us.
I mean, we hardly had a legal contract inplace, and it was only because the lawyer was
(02:16):
like, no.
You need this.
And we're like, okay.
We'll just put whatever is standard.
Because we work so well together, and we trulydid make good partners, but we could
acknowledge that it was what it was and it wasnot what it was not.
So I'm very, very grateful for that.
But everything was really smooth.
And the finances, it was really just aboutwhat's fair and, you know, acknowledging that I
don't have to hate you just because it didn'twork out.
(02:39):
And I can be fair, and I have my own strengthsthat I can now make a living off of.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
Well, my experience was not that personally.
Mine was the complete opposite.
So you are in the minority, and and you are inthe minority along with my my now my my new
wife, my second wife, she and her ex husband,you know, they did things pretty much the same
(03:01):
way.
There there weren't any businesses involved.
They weren't any rental property.
It was pretty it was pretty clean, from thatperspective.
There wasn't a lot of complexity to it, butthere was a it was basically a decoupling,
which is frankly the way that you you should goand and could go.
But a lot of the cases that I see certainlydon't don't go down that path.
It's definitely closer to align with with myscenario, my situation, which was very, very
(03:26):
expensive and very, very challenging.
But it doesn't have to be that way.
Yeah.
No.
Absolutely.
And I think from a financial perspective, I'mcurious to hear your thoughts on this too.
Like, one of the most important things is whileyou're married or while you're even talking
about it.
First of all, I don't think enough people havethat very hard conversation soon enough.
And second of all, keeping that conversationgoing through the marriage around like, hey.
(03:49):
These aren't rabbit holes that we want to godown.
We don't want these things to happen.
But right now, while we still love each other,I wanna make sure that you're good and I'm good
and have those really hard conversations andinvolve each other.
This is where a prenup comes in in a lot ofways.
Yeah.
I'm a I'm a big proponent of it.
I'm a I'm an advocate for it.
And I think a lot of people that are thinkingabout you know, maybe their their divorce has
(04:11):
been finalized now, and now they're on to thenext phase of their life, and they're trying to
figure out how to pick up the pieces and moveon, and then that involves new relationships.
You know, if you're if you're not at leastconsidering it, it could
be a problem.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I mean, especially in today's world where wesee divorce rates just going outrageous, it's
it just seems realistic to, you know, hope forthe best, but also plans to stay protected.
(04:36):
Absolutely.
So I wanna let let's talk a little bit aboutthe work that you do on the financial side.
Right?
So I know you have your business that whereyou're working with law firms and that you have
that, but then you also have financialcoaching.
Yeah?
Yes.
So money mastery is the second business that Iopened, and that's where I help more so with
personal finance with a big interest in thedifferences between men managing finance and
(04:59):
women managing finance.
And most of it is really about the disciplinebecause managing money and navigating money is
really, really easy.
It's 10% mechanics, but that 90% perspectiveand mindset is what really gets us tripped up
when it comes to our money.
So we have a framework that we help people workthrough to get a grip on their finances and get
(05:22):
some control on it and do things like invest intheir future Mhmm.
While also kind of uncovering what I refer toas your money story, those core beliefs and
values that you carry in with you intoadulthood or into a relationship.
We've talked about this with some other gueststhat have been on the show, and I I've heard
that theme, the kind of the money story themebefore.
Talk to me a little bit about that.
(05:43):
Because I think everybody like, the people thathaven't heard that term before and and and
don't really understand how it impacts some ofthe decisions that they make even if they're
not going through a divorce.
Like so can we talk a little bit about that?
So your money story is what is rooted in whatscientists now call the imprint period.
So from age zero to about seven to 12, you'reoperating mainly in your subconscious.
(06:05):
You're still a sponge taking in the worldaround you, observing, and just kind of
existing.
And what happens around age seven to 12 is thatyou step into consciousness.
And with it, you bring over 50% of your corevalues and beliefs, which you absorbed through
your experience up until that point.
(06:27):
So for example, if you grew up in a householdwhere money wasn't discussed, you're not gonna
feel comfortable talking about money.
If you grew up in a household that associatedhaving a lot of money with being a bad person,
then you're gonna feel guilty and shame aroundhaving what you would consider too much money.
(06:47):
Right?
If you grow up in like, my dad was a truckdriver, and he busted his butt.
He was a hustler.
And so I was brought up like, you have to workso, so hard just to live a mediocre lifestyle.
And so what happens is we bring these corevalues and beliefs into our adulthood, and we
start living them out in our money story.
(07:10):
So it's all very fascinating.
And in my free time, I'm like a neurobiologynerd.
Like, I love this stuff and understanding it.
This is the behavioral finance aspect of offinance effectively.
Right?
I mean, like, this is what the when you whenyou go through any kind of training in in the
financial world.
(07:30):
Right?
Like, I worked for some big name companies, andwe'd always go through these, you know, just to
further develop yourself and learn you know,continue to to educate yourself, there's a lot
of this type of training going on.
It's it's not necessarily like, you know, weall know two plus two equals four.
Right?
But we don't really understand how some of thatmapping that's happened at the age of seven is
(07:51):
now impacting our lives at the age of 47.
Right?
It's it's so it's so incredibly important.
It's so, like I mean, you you apparentlyunderstand it a lot more than I do because so,
like, this is this is this is powerful becauseI had same experience.
I I had an experience around seven or eightyears old that basically changed my entire the
(08:14):
entire trajectory of my life, which is myparents got divorced around that age.
Money was tight.
There was a lot of stress around it.
I felt the stress.
And now here I am forty years later, I've beena financial planner for twenty years, and it's
basically all I've all I've ever thought about.
So, like, it that that's that's incredible.
(08:37):
It really is.
Like, if you sit and think for a minute, justmeditate on the question, what am I scared of
when it comes to my money?
And almost always, you can trace that fear backto an experience or a core belief.
And our fears are what keep us where keep ussafe.
(08:58):
Right?
Because even if we don't like it, it'scomfortable.
We feel comfortable there.
Right?
But, you know, a few laws of the brain, thebrain doesn't know right, wrong, real, fake,
true, false.
We tell it that.
And whatever we tell our brain, it makes towork true, make happen in the real world.
And those are all our core values and beliefs,and it's so interesting, you know, the people
(09:22):
that I talk to, and they tell me, you know,this is what I'm scared of when it comes to my
money, and here's where I believe I'm notcapable of achieving whatever level of
financial success, be it in their business orin their personal life.
And the good news is science has also provenand even has video on.
(09:42):
We can create new neurological connections.
We can change our beliefs and what we choose toto make reality.
Is that the same in divorce?
Because we're we're we're kind of talking aboutstuff that's like, you know, these experiences
we've had at a very an an impressionable youngage.
Right?
Like, seven or eight years old and then goinginto, like, the early, you know, before pre
(10:05):
basically preteen.
Right?
So most most of us that have gone throughdivorce are now much older at that point.
We have we've matured and our brains havedeveloped and so on and so forth.
So is it the is it the same with the divorce?
Because that's kinda like, this is an this isan experience you're creating for yourself in
many ways.
Right?
Some of a lot of us have asked for the divorce.
We create that experience.
(10:26):
The experience that happened to me at seven oreight years old was something that happened
around me.
Does that am I making don't know if I'm makingsense there, but, like, are they the same?
I think fundamentally and and let me just giveit back to you to make sure I understand your
question.
Is going through the trauma or experience of adivorce the same in terms of the imprint that
it leaves on?
(10:46):
Yes.
Yeah.
I believe that to be true.
And these imprint scenarios can happen eveninto adulthood.
But I think that's absolutely true.
And when that happens, like when I meet withwomen who are coming out of a divorce,
statistically speaking, women suffersubstantially more than men after a divorce,
financially, mentally, main caretaker, all ofthese different areas.
(11:11):
And when I meet with someone like that, I thinkthe key to that is really reflecting.
How did I get here?
How did this happen?
How has it left me?
What do I believe?
Is that actually true?
Because I promise you, if you come out of areally nasty divorce, but you want to get
married again, but you're terrified, there areplenty of examples in the world that you can
(11:33):
find where it is possible.
Like, there's proof everywhere that whatever wewant to believe is possible is absolutely
possible.
But it's a process.
Right?
And it's a very emotional process because it'sgrieving.
You're going through the process of grievingwhat you thought you had, what you thought your
life was going to be like.
Yeah.
And I guess once you've wrapped your headaround that, what are the like, what next?
(11:55):
Like, are some of the first?
If I'm coming to you and I'm recently divorcedand I'm, you know, trying to pick up the pieces
of my life and move on to this next phase of mylife, what would you tell me?
As, like, I guess, as far as, like, here arethe next best steps where you're some of the
first steps you should be taking.
Yeah.
And this is why I love money because I am by nomeans like a therapist or a counselor, but
(12:17):
naturally and you know this.
Right?
When you work with people and their money, youplay that role kind of sometimes.
%.
But the reason that I love money is it's anincredibly nonbias, black and white framework
that we can start from.
And money weaves into every facet of your life,all of it.
And so if we can get the framework in place andget things started, what naturally happens is
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that those mental pieces, those glass ceilings,if you will, that we create ourselves start to
show up.
Right?
So if we put the framework in place, then we'relike, well, I'm not living the life that I
wanna live.
I need to make more money.
Alright.
Well, what's stopping you?
Let's explore that.
Right?
Or I put this framework into place, and I spentway more money than I should have.
(13:03):
Okay.
Well, let's go look at why.
Like, if we understand the why and because fromyour beliefs comes your habits.
Right?
Mhmm.
That's where those habits stem from.
And a lot of finance has to do with your habitsand how you're managing those.
So those things naturally come up within theprocess, but money is the perfect place to
start because it's very simple,straightforward.
(13:27):
So it's all I guess it's all about getting backto the the root cause.
Right?
Like, when I when I used to coach and trainfinancial advisers at at one of the big name
firms that's out there, that's what we alwayswent back to is the why.
Like, what is the root cause?
Yep.
Yep.
And money gives us, like, this finite place tostart.
It's like our compass.
Right?
And naturally because that when whenever wedeviate from a financial plan, there's always a
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feeling or emotion about it.
One of the most profound things I ever heardwas we are always ever only purchasing a
feeling.
Even if it's paying your mortgage, that is afeeling of security.
Right?
Therapy shopping is called therapy shopping fora reason.
So one of the exercises I'll go through iswe'll look at your last year's spending using
like a rocket money or something, and we assigna feeling.
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And we look at our money, and we we say, whatare we trying to purchase here?
What are we trying to find?
That dopamine is what everybody's looking for.
Yes.
And we're either usually, we're running towardssomething or from something.
And so coping mechanisms is a good example ofrunning from something.
Like, how how do we face that?
How do we work through it?
(14:32):
What do we need to do to achieve that?
It's pretty incredible.
So let's say, you know, the people that you'reworking with that have engaged you, like, like,
how how are you coaching them towards financialindependence post divorce?
Like, what is I know you're not a therapist.
Right?
But you're definitely coaching these peoplejust like we do in the financial planning
world, which is, you know, we're doing thistogether effectively, you effectively, you and
(14:53):
I.
Like, we're I know kind of my series of thingsthat I take people through and some of the the
support that we provide them.
What does that look like on your end?
Well, I'm actually I'm in the process ofwriting a book so that I can help more people
and working to create an online course versionof how I work with people one on one.
But I'm essentially a resource hub.
(15:15):
That's what I am.
So once we get the framework set up, we get thethe money controlled and every dollar planned
for and set up automations because that's animportant piece.
Nobody wants to sit and deal with all of thatevery single month, so we automate a lot of it.
Now it's just about regular check ins.
So monthly, quarterly, until you essentiallygraduate from the program because it's almost
(15:35):
like you're self coaching, self therapy.
Because now you know if this happens, this iswhat we make of it and how we correct it.
Amazing.
You you and I were talking on the lead in up tothis call here about so many of podcasts like
ours and so many resources and social media andall this other stuff out there so focused on
(15:59):
the support that women need to get through adivorce.
Right?
Well and I'm here to tell you that dudes needthe help too.
So let's can we talk a little bit about thatfor a few minutes?
Because I wish when you look at the thedownloads of our podcast, it's, you know, 90%
female, ten % male.
And and I have my own thoughts on that.
And I think a lot of this is, you know, mendon't reach out for the help because they feel
(16:22):
like they've got it they've got it they've gotit handled.
Right?
A lot of us dudes are out there like your likeyour dad.
Like, they're just, like, gonna just muddlethrough it.
They just keep working, put their head down andwork, work, work, and they're gonna get to
where they need need to be someday.
And instead of just reaching out for the help.
So I love I love your thoughts on that becauseI know you have some.
Yeah.
I have a lot of compassion for men in thistime.
(16:45):
I'm absolutely an advocate of women, and it'svery justified that we're empowering women.
But I think equally important is that we don'tforget about the men.
And the huge transformation that has takenplace is the shift of money and finance and
(17:05):
wealth.
And when women, only fifty years ago, couldeven begin to establish financial independence,
what we don't think about is how that affectedmen.
Men's role was the provider, the leader, thedoer.
Right?
And now we're living in this world where a lotof women are the breadwinners.
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And for some men, that leaves them feelinglike, well, what is my role?
Because all we've ever known, at least in thiscountry, is that men were the financial
providers.
And so it leaves a lot of men feeling like,where is my value now?
Right?
How do I show up as a masculine support for mywife or, you know, my whoever?
(17:51):
And so my heart really goes out to them becauseit's completely overlooked.
It's actually the second book that I'm going towrite is acknowledging, you know, that men are
left in this place, and I feel like nobody'stalking about it.
And this is not a matter of women can doeverything that men can do.
We don't need men.
Absolutely not.
Yes.
We do.
But it is difficult, and we need to starttalking about how with all of these changes do
(18:17):
we maintain that value in that role for men.
How is it evolving?
And I would venture to guess it's it's prettyscary for somebody out there, you know, just
thinking through what you're saying here whereyou've me maybe the wife has been the
breadwinner in this because we I have a lot offinancial planning clients that have that
situation where, you know, either either thethe man stays home to take care of the kids and
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kind there it's a role reversal of traditionalroles, right, which is totally cool.
But them being out of the workforce for so longcan is gonna have a dramatic impact on their
ability to get back into it if they need tolater.
So, like, that's a conundrum.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And that is very important.
And that's like going back to what we what wesaid.
(19:00):
Like, I in a marriage, you don't don't go don'twait till you go through a divorce.
Hopefully not, but till you go through adivorce to make sure that each of you is taken
care of.
Talk about it now.
How can we support each other now?
What needs to happen should we go down thisrabbit hole because I love you right now to
make sure that both of us are taken care of?
And that's a very real struggle and a very realsituation.
(19:25):
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad people like you are out thereeducating the masses.
I mean, that's education is incrediblyimportant.
And that's the a lot of the reason why we do Ido the work that I do, not only trying to,
like, shepherd people through the divorceprocess and make sure that their finances are
intact on the tail end of it, but that's why wedo the podcast.
That's why we we put out as much as we do onsocial media.
(19:47):
What I you know, I just try to do my best toeducate as many people as we possibly can
because fifty percent of the people that weknow that are married are probably gonna go
through have this experience one time in theirlife, unfortunately.
And if you get married a second time,unfortunately, the news is the news is even
worse because if it's it's like sixty toseventy percent depending on whether it's, you
(20:08):
know, you know, a same sex spouse or or not,they're you're you're almost doomed the second
time around.
So I'm I'm I'm glad you're doing all the workyou're doing on on the education part.
It's it's incredible.
Yeah.
We're at a very fascinating point in history,and I think that it's important that we do
right by it in the
Oh, absolutely.
Thank you for saying that.
(20:30):
That is gonna that that should there should bea commercial with that quote because this is
it's work you're doing is incredibly important,so so keep it up.
This is, what I would call the carte blanchesegment of our conversation.
So I always ask, like, is there anything thatI, any questions I should have asked of you
that I didn't or or anything you wanna sharewith the audience that is important for them to
know that we didn't cover today?
(20:51):
I will just say that I'm really excited aboutmy new book and the follow-up.
So go to our website.
I'm sure you'll have it in the podcast notes.
%.
Mhmm.
Moneymastery.org.
Subscribe to our email list.
The first one should drop fourth quarter oftwenty twenty five.
And that's really my life's work, andeverything that we talked about today was
really important.
And I appreciate people like you who are makingsure that, you know, not only stay at home
(21:16):
moms, but dads are being an active participantin the planning and in the awareness of
finances.
Yeah.
And that's the biggest thing is being an activeparticipant.
So and I'm I'm sure you see this too in in II've seen it 20 of my career.
Unfortunately, this happens all the time, and Italk about it on the show all the time too.
(21:37):
So if you're listening and this is you, whatare you waiting for?
But there's always tends to be one person, onedecision maker, one financial CFO of the family
that makes all the financial decisions and isin the loop about everything.
And then something like divorce or even deaththat happens to people that one of these two
(22:00):
things happens, and the next thing you know,you're left to pick up the pieces.
And it's very, very challenging because ifyou're just left in the lurch and you're
clueless as to what you own, what you owe, howmuch money your spouse is making, or what the
bonuses look like, and how the how things areinvested, it could be a disaster later.
Any thoughts on that?
You know, as you said that, my podcast name,which is why I named it this Always and Never
(22:25):
About the Money came up, because I work withmarried couples as well.
And counselors counseling statistics sometimeswill tell you that money is the main cause of
divorce.
But what is true underneath that statement isthat there are no money problems, only money
problems showing up in your money.
(22:45):
And nine times out of 10, when there isfinancial blindness or plan blindness or
divorce happens and people are left indifferent financial positions, again, it goes
back to a root issue, which is usuallycommunication and willingness to have the hard
conversations, right, that were really theissue.
(23:06):
It just showed up in the outcome of your money.
And probably ultimately showed up in theoutcome of your marriage.
Yeah.
So many marriages are all about the money.
Yeah.
So it just divorces.
So many divorces are about the money.
I should say divorces.
Too many marriages are about the money, yes.
But most divorces are about the money as well.
Yeah.
So like for your listeners, if you're marriednow or you want to get married again, like
(23:30):
money is a fantastic conversation to have tosee if the person that you're with or dating is
able to have those hard conversations, isconsiderate, is willing to come to the table
and be an active participant.
Like, again, it is such a great place to startbecause it stems everywhere.
I I couldn't have said it better myself.
Thank you so much for for joining us today.
(23:50):
It's been a great conversation.
Yes.
We will make sure you have everybody who'slistening, if you're driving right now, do not
pull over.
We will make sure all the all the links and allsocial media and everything else are links to
the book and everything are in the, show notesfor today.
So, Chelsea, thank you so much for joining usand sharing such valuable financial wisdom.
For our listeners interested in enhancing theirfinancial strategies both personally and
(24:13):
professionally, I encourage you to followChelsea on social media, visit our website, and
tune in to her podcast for more expert advice.
Remember, if you're looking for support withyour financial planning or need guidance
through the complexities of divorce, AllegiantDivorce Solutions is here to assist.
Visit allegiantds.com for more resources andexpert guidance.
And don't forget to subscribe to our podcastfor more discussions just like this that
(24:35):
empower and inform.
Until next time.