September 3, 2025 • 33 mins
Jamie M. Lima and Bob Martin discuss the transformative power of mindfulness during divorce. Bob shares his personal divorce journey, emphasizing the importance of selecting the right lawyer and navigating legal battles. The conversation explores how mindfulness and meditation can aid emotional healing and resilience. Bob's personal transformation and new life highlight the benefits of mindfulness techniques during divorce proceedings. The episode delves into understanding and managing thoughts and emotions, responding to modern challenges with mindfulness, and the role of self-help, meditation, and professional support.
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(00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of broke up notbroken.
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I'm your host, Jamie Lima and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions and Secure Split.
Today's guest is Bob Martin, an author, formermob lawyer, professor of wellness, certified
meditation teacher, and someone whose lifestory is just as jaw dropping as it is
inspiring.
Bob went from navigating the high stakes legalworld of Miami's cocaine cowboy era to becoming
(00:26):
the mindfulness coordinator at Elon University.
University.
Along the way, he survived a painful divorce,battled addiction, and rebuilt his own life
from the inside out.
With a JD, MSW, and multiple meditationcertificate certifications, Bob now brings
mindfulness and emotional mastery to at riskyouth, Fortune 500 leaders, and today to all of
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us.
We're gonna talk about how to use mindfulnessnot not just for survival, but as a discipline
to rebuild your finances, your relationships,and your identity after loss.
So buckle up, grab a cup of coffee or yourbeverage of choice.
Let's once again get you both personally andfinancially empowered.
Bob, it's so great to have you with us heretoday.
Thanks for having me.
This is such a privilege to talk to folks who,you know, are facing these kinds of issues and
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to be able to contribute a little bit of whatI've experienced and gone through.
Yeah.
You you've been around the block and then some,man.
So we can we can go in a lot of differentdirections with this this conversation, but
maybe we just start off with your ownexperience with divorce and and how that really
shaped your, you know, your outlook on thingsand and I guess you as a person.
Yeah.
It was it was miserable, I guess, is the bestway to to describe it.
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My, my ex was drinking, and when she wasn'tdrinking, we could make some progress moving
forward.
And then when she was, it would fall apart.
And we were engaged in that fight, and it was afight for several years.
And one of the things that I I I certainly cameto know, and even as a lawyer, I can say this
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with great confidence, that not every lawyer'smindset is the same.
You know?
There are a lot of not gonna say a lot.
There are divorce lawyers out of there thatsimply are employed because they have a
reputation for having fangs.
And when the client is full of retribution andanger, they'll look for a lawyer that's going
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to be tough and get every last penny out of theother side.
And if that happens, you know, you're gonnaprobably wind up with legal bills that are
gonna probably equal what the settlementbetween you is.
In my particular divorce, you know, when whenwe went down that road and, you know, that mean
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that decision to divorce is a tough onebecause, you know, you you get married and you
take a vow, you know, that you're gonna be tilldeath do us part in the liken.
And then there comes just a time when you haveto renegotiate that vow because it's just not
out.
There's more harm that's coming out of therelationship than help.
And so, you know, that decision gets made.
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My I I I I had a lawyer who was both my friendand somebody I had great confidence.
Was a great lawyer, and he was very bargainoriented.
My wife's lawyer was not, and it just, turnedout to be a mess.
So be careful, you know, about who you chooseas a lawyer and what their reputation is and
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why you're choosing that lawyer because it canmake a huge difference in how things go.
That's not to say that, you know, competencyhas anything to do with it, but it really in in
in this area of the law, you know, where theperson's mindset, where the lawyer's mindset
is, where the client's mindset is, or what theywant out of the case may not be necessarily
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reasonable Yeah.
Because emotions are involved.
You you're you're perfectly describing myexperience with divorce.
My my my attorney my attorney was pretty good,little bit of a teddy bear in some respects,
whereas on the other side, you know, she hireda bulldog and, you know, that I end up paying
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that bill multiple times over.
And you're you're absolutely right.
Like, these attorneys these attorneys arethey're not really trained as mediators.
Right?
They're trained as litigators, and that'sreally what what sometimes drags these these
cases on and and forces you to spend a a prettypenny on them.
Mhmm.
Mhmm.
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Yeah.
I I what I offered her when we first startedspeaking wound up to be more than she wound up
with, not even considering her $80,000 legalbill, which I did not pay, by the way.
Well, you lucked out.
Good job.
Good for you.
I did look out.
I I just absolutely refused to pay it becauseit was unnecessarily you know, it was it was
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unnecessarily blown up when it didn't have tobe.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've But there's you know, you you still haveyou still have some resentment that follows it.
There's still emotional scars that are there.
I'll tell you that there is a medit I teachmeditation.
So there is a meditation called the lovingkindness meditation, and it's a meditation that
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is designed to help you to learn to open yourheart Mhmm.
To be more kind, more loving, and the likebecause that's what leads to happiness, being
more kind and loving in life.
If you look at people that aren't kind andaren't loving, they're not happy.
They're just not happy people.
So, the way that it works is you start byoffering blessings to somebody who you care for
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and then to a neutral, maybe to yourself, andyou work out with more and more difficult
people until so trying to open your hearts upto people that, you know, are difficult.
And even today now, it's been twenty five yearssince the divorce, my ex is still at the end of
that line.
So, I mean, there is there I mean, even even mewho practices love and kindness and everything
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else, there's still resentment.
Yeah.
You know?
Then it goes on, and your relationship goes on.
And my kids, you know, they're still it's sheis their mother, and their relationship with
her, you know, affects me.
And so so it's it's not like it's over and it'sgone.
Well, if you don't have kids, maybe it is.
But if you have kids
Yeah.
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Kids is kids is a huge aspect of divorce and,you know, how we deal with our you know, what
our relationships are like with the kids duringdivorce and what their experience is like and
so on and so forth.
So, like, when you I was gonna save thisquestion for later, but you've already you've
already brought this up.
But I so I wanna I wanna I wanna I wanna gowith it here.
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But how do you how do you help with the becauseresilience is a word that I picked up and the
research that I was doing on you is leading upto our call.
So and it's a word that comes up in a lot ofthese conversations, the resilience in, like,
one foot in the front of another.
You just gotta, like, get through it.
How does resilience play into mindfulness andhow you can model behaviors for your kids?
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Well, you know, one of the best ways todescribe mindfulness is to is by saying what
it's not, and what it's not is mindlessness.
So, you know, if you are being mindless aboutyour reactions with your kids and your
responses to what they're doing and what yousay, and you're just doing them on impulse
without thinking about, you know, the effectthat they're having on other people without any
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empathy, without any compassion, without anykindness, and you're just reacting, then it's
not gonna be a very good model for your kids.
Yeah.
So what what mindfulness teaches is themisconception about mindfulness is that it's
something about finding peace and tranquilityand calmness and emptying your mind and having,
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like, white noise inside your brain and justbeing able to breathe and, you know, be at
ease.
And it's nothing like that.
That is not what mindfulness is about.
It's about this.
In life, you will experience a lot of pain.
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You will get cut.
You'll break your knee.
You'll have to have a hip operation.
Your heart will be broken.
Your spirit will be broken.
All of these are pains.
They're pains, they're gonna come to you and ispart of life.
And there's no real way to suppress any ofthat.
You can't make it go away.
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Yeah.
But what you can do is you can cultivate orincrease your tolerance for pain.
You know, the easiest example is one personmight get a little scratch on their arm.
And they're all worried about getting aninfection, and they're running to get the
antibiotic, and they're going, wow, wow, and Ican't do anything and oh my arm.
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And they just have no tolerance for the pain orthe worry about the consequences.
They have just no tolerance there.
Somebody else might get the same scratch andslap a little iodine on and go back to
business.
Yeah.
It's not that the pain is any different so thatthe the wound is any different.
It's that their tolerance or their approach tothe wound is different.
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And what mindfulness teaches us is it teachesus to develop tolerance to discomfort.
And the best way that I could describe it isthe main instruction is to form an intention to
put your attention on something like a candleof your breath, and then your mind let me back
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up a second.
Have you ever had the experience of listeningto somebody and then noticing that you're not
listening?
Yes.
Right?
Mhmm.
Reading a book and then realize that you readevery single word of the last three pages and
none of it stuck.
Well, we do it when we're driving.
Right?
Sometimes we're driving and we're like, how thehell did I get here?
How did I get here?
Okay.
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So when you're when you're not listening tothis person, all of a sudden, something like a
little alarm goes off in your brain and it goeslike, psst.
Hey.
You're not listening.
Right?
Mhmm.
And then it's usually followed by a wholestream of judgments like I should have been
listening, and what am I gonna do now?
And meanwhile, you're still not listening.
And then after a while, it kinda quiets down,and then you just start listening again.
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You begin again.
Right?
Yeah.
And that's what the main practice of meditationis.
You say you're gonna put your attention on thecandle, your mind wanders away, your mind goes,
hey.
You're not paying attention to the candle.
When that occurs, you get what it feels like towake up from the default mind blah blah blah.
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But the mind's going blah blah blah.
I should have done this.
I gotta talk to that guy and thinking about amillion things.
And then all of a sudden, you wake up.
Oh, I'm not paying attention to the candle.
Now most people would kind of give up at thatpoint.
They say, oh, I I screwed up.
I'm not doing it right, and, you know, thisisn't for me.
But in meditation, what we say is no.
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Go back and begin again and put your attentionback on the candle and begin again.
Mhmm.
And then your mind wanders and you notice itand you come back and you begin again.
And then your mind wanders and you come backand you begin again.
Every time you do that, neuropsychologically,you're creating a neural pathway that says, I
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can begin again.
I can start over.
I can get up.
It's not it's the same exact neural pathwaythat gets you back up on the saddle when a
horse throws you off.
Yeah.
Okay?
So what you're practicing is you're practicingdeveloping a habit of persistence, of
tolerating discomfort.
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And that makes you stronger.
And it's not that you develop quietness, butit's out of the mental strength that you
develop that your life is more calm because youcan tolerate the pain that's there better.
And that's what gives you the resilience.
That resilience means getting back up afteryou've been knocked down.
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Mhmm.
And you build that resilience through thediscipline.
Right?
I mean, all about the discipline of juststicking with it and staying like, because I do
this too.
I I meditate my did meditate myself.
I and and I feel like it's always, you know,there's they they they they say, like, the
practice of meditation because it really is youhave to practice at it because Practice.
As as we're talking about this, I realized,like, I haven't I haven't meditated in in weeks
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at this point because other things come up, andthen I'm gonna get, like, whatever.
Right.
Right.
And I'm like, wow.
I'm I really suck at meditation because, like,I haven't done it in and done it in weeks, but
it's really just about sticking with it andtrying to stay focused on it and really because
it is so so beneficial.
Yeah.
Thoughts on that?
And when you notice that that you haven't doneit for weeks, you go back and begin again.
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Yeah.
You know, you let the judgments go.
You say, okay.
Well, you know, the best thing I can do is justgo back and begin again.
And you might flick off again for anothercouple of weeks, and you go back and begin
again.
And every time you do that, you're teachingyourself that you have the capacity to come
back.
Yeah.
And it's like Rocky said in Rocky four.
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It ain't about how many times you get knockeddown.
It's about whether you get back up.
Yep.
You've you've lived, say, like, a thousandlives, it seems like, with all, like, the the
experience you have as an attorney and thewhole the Miami situation, like like the like,
it's you're you've you've you've you've beenall over the place.
What was that personal like, was there a lightbulb moment, or was it a series of moments?
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Or, like, what what was that, like, personalmoment in time where you're like, I need to
like, now it has to be all about mindfulness.
Was it the divorce, or was it a combination ofall those things?
No.
The divorce didn't come till way later.
Okay.
The divorce came about because I had alreadymade that pivot, and the woman that I was
married to just wasn't I wasn't the man shemarried.
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Neither neither was I mean, I wasn't the manthat she married, and she didn't want the guy
that I was.
She wanted the guy that I had been.
Yeah.
The ambitious son of a bitch, you know, go gethim kinda guy who really threw myself into my
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work and let her didn't bother her too much.
Mhmm.
Now now I'm being more mindful.
It was it was just different.
The the point came just like it does for somany folks.
When I was hitting bottom in Miami, I had mobmob clients.
I was going out with them.
I was doing a lot of cocaine.
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I was drinking a lot.
In Miami in those days, Cheevous and CokeCheevous Regal, you know, this Scott.
You know?
Cheevous and Coke meant a whole different Andand I was seeing a therapist, and I had already
by the age 32, I'd already paid off my house.
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And I was thinking that I was everything.
I was arrogant, and I was investing in stuff.
I was losing money as fast as I was making it.
And, I mean, people would walk into my officewith $9,000 in cash maybe twice a day.
So it was it was crazy times.
And I was seeing a therapist, and I was gonnahave to refinance my house.
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And I asked him, should I do this?
And I figured he would come back with some kindof therapist talk like, well, Bob, what do you
think?
Do you think you should do it?
But instead of that, he picked up some coinsand he started throwing the coins on the desk
and counting them up and making somecomputations, came up with the number, picked
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up a book, opened it to that chapter number,and showed to me.
The title of the chapter was retreat.
And I'm sitting there while he's doing all thisthinking that my you know, he's turned into
some kind of soothsayer, gypsy, shaman orsomething.
It got pissed off, cursed him out, stomped outof there, but it was like that word.
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It was like stamped on my forehead.
And so I started just coming back from some ofthe excessive behaviors.
Mhmm.
And finally, I went back to him and I said,what what was it that you did?
And he said, well, that's the I Ching, the IChing, the classical book of changes.
It's the Chinese practice.
What kind of Chinese?
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He said, Taoist.
He said, what's Taoism?
So he told me it's like a sister of Buddhism.
Okay?
Turns out that my therapist was the Englishlanguage editor, devotee, and primary student
of a seventy second generation grandmaster fromthe Taoist temple, the Shaolin temple, the Kung
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Fu temple.
Okay.
72 generations of passing the wisdom down.
Fourteen hundred years of father to son wisdom.
This guy, master watching me, came to Miami thenext week.
And the moment I met him, I said, I need toknow what this guy knows.
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I just I just need I mean, he just had thatpresence.
Yeah.
He was amazing.
And so he taught us Taoism and we studied itand I practiced with the I Ching, that coin
thing, which by the way is one of the mostamazing practices that you can engage.
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It's not it's not an oracle.
It's not a soothsayer.
It's not a fortune telling thing.
It's really a bridge between your rationalverbal mind and your intuitive mind.
It allows you to ask your intuitive mind aquestion, and then it provides you with the
means of verbalizing it.
Yeah.
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So it strengthens your left side brain.
And, anyway, before I that could be a wholebunch of
I I know.
I wanna I wanna I wanna be able to tie thisinto the financial aspects of this because this
is, like, absolutely mind blowing to me, youknow, that you've had this experience and,
like, you were able to just, like, youbasically changed the you were always the
person that you are.
Right?
Like, if this is all part of your journey, but,like, how did you isn't doesn't it didn't you
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must have been either was it challenging tokinda shed that old life or was it more of a
rebirth and invigorating for you?
I I mean, obviously, you know, had going Oh.
Going through a divorce stemming from thischange, you know, isn't isn't always a good
thing, but was it a was it a what was it like?
It was
like my my dad was Hungarian royalty and theBolsheviks wiped out his whole family.
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K.
My mom was Roma Gypsy and the Nazis wiped outher whole family.
So we had no ancestors at all, and they hadcome to believe that there was not a god that
was worth worshiping.
So I did not grow up in any kind of religiousfamily.
The only thing that I had to give me a guide onhow to live life was the fact that my father
was a virtuous and meticulous man, thankfully.
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So when I was introduced to master Ni and ITaoism is not a god based philosophy.
It's it's it's it's basically yin yang Mhmm.
You know, and the energy based.
If there is energy in the universe and it hascertain characteristics, and if you understand
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those characteristics, they comprise the flow.
And if you wanna go with the flow, you need tounderstand the flow.
And that's what Taoism is.
It helps you to understand what's going on inthe energetic environment.
I don't mean like woo wee energy.
Like like the energy that you and I might feeltalking to each other right now.
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Yeah.
It's, you know, it's an evocative energy.
It evokes thoughts from both of us.
Other times, you're engaged with somebody andit's a suppressive energy.
You can't think of anything to say.
Sometimes people wanna listen to you.
If you're swimming into shore, sometimes thetide is going with you and sometimes it's
against you.
These are all the energies in the environmentaround you, and the best thing that you can do
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is learn how to align yourself with the energyso you live effectively and efficiently.
So that's what Taoism teaches.
And what was exciting about it, just to answeryour question, was I had spent my entire life
trying to figure out by experiment how to dothis and what works and what doesn't work, and
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I hobbled together a basic idea.
But when they handed me the data Jing, I lookedat it and said, damn.
This is an operating manual for living.
And for the first time in my life, I was givena wisdom that, you know, had survived for four
thousand years that made a great deal of senseand was based on just doing the right thing.
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And and I just took to it, and I was gratefulfor it.
And I just wanted to eat it up and knoweverything about it.
Amazing.
So yeah.
How do we take this information?
And when we're in the throes of a divorcebecause I'm I'm thinking, like, how I could
have been much better at being more mindfulwhen I was going through this experience
myself.
Right?
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You're dealing with uncertainty and fear andfinancial stress and strain and the the dealing
with attorneys and the legal aspects andeverything like you.
You're in the center of this tornado.
So for those of for those people that arelistening right now and and whether it's on the
financial side of things, whether it's on theemotional side of things, doesn't really make a
difference how you answer this, but how do youremain mindful when, I'll just say it, the shit
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is spiraling out of control or and everythingis everything is falling apart around you?
Right.
Well, have a mentor who you trust.
Take my course in meditation, which I'd be alittle self promoting, it's a great course.
I've worked with a lot of folks that are in themiddle of these things.
That's not a problem.
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But save that.
There's two things that I would say if youraudience takes away these two things, it will
help.
One, create some space for beauty in your life.
Go out and watch the sunrise.
Make a habit of it.
Put things on your desk.
I I have my I have a couple of my tai chi men.
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Mhmm.
Right?
I love my tai chi men.
They're on my desk here.
My little my little elephants over here.
I've got pictures of my loved ones.
My whole wall here is covered with my heroes.
I curate my environment to be inspirational andto bring beauty into my life and get a dog.
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The dog will love you.
Unconditionally.
Unconditionally.
Seriously, experience or take a find if there'sa hiking trail nearby or or a park that you can
go and sit, you know, among trees.
Bring some beauty take some time to bring somebeauty into your life because
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neuropsychologically, it makes a hugedifference between your left prefrontal and
right prefrontal cortex.
There's all kinds of science behind it, butforget about that.
You just need to make the space for beauty inyour life and remind yourself that there are
sunrises, that you can go into a church not forthe spiritual, but to look at the crazy lattice
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and mattes of the stained glass and how thelight comes through it and what it makes you
feel.
You you can't ignore that, and it strengthensyou.
And it reminds you that, you know, thesetroubles that we're in, they are they're
they're they're horrible, and they'redifficult, and they're all of that, but they're
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not everything.
So that's that's one thing.
And and the other thing is to remember that youare not your thoughts.
We live our lives inside of our thoughts.
We are our thoughts.
We go up and down in the roller coaster of ouremotions, but they are not in in our language,
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we say, oh, I had a thought.
Right?
Mhmm.
I had a thought.
Well, who is the I that had the thought?
You are the I that had the thought.
It's only a thought.
And if you wait thirty two seconds, it'll begone and it's gonna be replaced by another
thought, and then another thought, and thenanother thought.
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You can't buy a carton of milk with a thought.
They're just thoughts.
You're not your thoughts.
And our thoughts control so much of what we dowhen we live inside of them that we have the
ability to step outside and realize that we areso much more than our thoughts.
Now having said that, there's one other littlepiece.
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You're not your emotions.
Now what is an emotion?
Here's where this can be really, really helpfulif you can just it's like Susan Salzburg says,
meditation isn't hard.
Remembering to do meditation is hard.
And so this what I'm just gonna say is nothard.
Remembering it is hard.
What is an emotion?
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An emotion is nothing more than a thoughtcombined with a body sensation, a physical
sensation.
Like, I were to say to you, no.
I love you, and I don't feel a certaintightness or yearning in my heart, in my chest,
I don't feel anything in my body when I say it,it's just an intellectual comment.
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Mhmm.
It's nothing more.
And if I feel those sensations, but they're notaccompanied with the thought, I probably would
think I have indigestion.
Right?
So either one of those deconstructed thethought and the body sensation, they are that
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that's what creates an emotion, a feeling.
It's the thought combined with the emotion.
And so when you are feel like you're becomingoverwhelmed by a feeling.
If you can just reflect and say, what is thebody sensation that I'm feeling?
Where in my body am I feeling this?
Am I feeling it in my chest, in my cheeks, inmy neck, my eyes?
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Where am I feeling this?
And you can identify the body sensation.
If you just do that, it will ground you in thepresent moment and it will take you away from
all of your regrets and all of yourcatastrophizing.
You'll just be here in this moment.
Where am I feeling this in my body?
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And then what is the exact words that I'm usingin my thoughts?
And if you just do that, that little mindfulactivity, where do I feel this in my body?
What are the words that I'm using?
By the time you get to where are the words thatI'm using, you already will be much calmer.
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Because, again, your fear and your anxiety isbeing caused by something you regret from the
past or something you fear from the future.
But, generally, there's nothing in our presentmoment that's threatening us that we need to be
anxious about.
So if we can ground ourselves by looking forthe body sensation, we already are finding a
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way to get a hold of our feelings.
I'll tell you the story that taught me this.
I'm at a retreat, and we're sitting on the mat.
We sit twenty minutes, walk twenty minutes, sittwenty minutes, walk twenty minutes, eat lunch
silently, silent retreat, you know, for fourdays.
And I'm sitting on the mat, and all of a suddenit just comes to me that this is the cure for
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the whole world, and meditation's gonna fixeverything.
And we gotta we we can't spend any more timesitting on this mat.
Gotta We get out there and teach everybodymeditation because once we do that, the world
will be at peace and everything will be great.
And I just couldn't I couldn't hold myexcitement.
So I got up from the mat, I went to where theteachers were holed up in their room, and I
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knocked on the door, and the teacher comes out.
Yes, Bob.
She said, meditation.
This is it, man.
We've got to do something.
We've got to get out there and teach everybody.
We've you know, going on.
She goes, oh, Okay.
So you're having some thoughts.
And I go, Yes, yes, yes.
I'm having lots of thoughts.
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And she goes, And you're having some bodysensations?
I go, Yes, I'm having body sensations.
So you're having thoughts and you're havingbody sensations?
And I go, Oh, yeah.
I'm having thoughts and I'm having bodysensations.
I say, Yeah.
So I go, Back on the cushion?
She goes, Yeah.
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So when you are familiar with some of thesetruisms about how we as human beings act, find
that there are ways that you can be more incontrol of these things which previously
thought controlled you.
Because the truth of the matter is that we arean animal that evolved for very primitive
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circumstances, and we are not adapted to themodern world.
And so things about how our brain and our bodyand our our our fight flight reflex and our
rest and digest reflex Mhmm.
And our sense of connection and the like wereall designed to bring us together as tribes
(30:21):
because of survival and to scan for danger andstuff that worked really well in the jungle,
but doesn't work that well in the modernsystem.
So we have to take some action intentionally torebalance ourselves because we're not designed
for this environment.
(30:42):
Yeah.
So we have to intentionally redesign ourselves.
Yeah.
It's all about intention, and I think, yeah,that's a it's a beautiful it's a beautiful
place to leave us.
I mean, I wish we could talk about this all daylong because I really I'm so passionate about I
mean, I mean, I don't do a good I still need topractice more of it, right, and and and get
better at it.
And but I'm a firm believer in in meditationand and the self help stuff and eastern
(31:06):
medicine versus western medicine a lot oftimes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you need a coach.
Yeah.
You know?
I mean, I I I started and it was fits andstarts for years until I got a coach.
And then all of a sudden, was off to the races.
Yeah.
Well, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for your time today Happy to youknow, for your your vulnerability, your wisdom,
(31:27):
your commitment to transformation, like, of it,it resonates with with everything you're
saying.
And and I think, you know, in in general, Ithink your story just reminds us that no matter
where we are in life and what we're goingthrough with you know, if you can maintain that
presence, right, and that and that intention,then then you can get through anything.
And and for those people that are listening,like, I I can't I can't talk enough about that
(31:51):
self help component of this because we we oftenyou know, even my own situation, I relied on my
attorney to get me through my divorce.
And even as a financial professional at thattime, I I made mistakes in my own divorce, but
I was like, I've got it all all handled.
But I let some of the self help stuff go, and Ican't I can't say more about how important it
is.
So listeners, pay attention to thisconversation.
(32:14):
And if you wanna learn more about Bob and hiswork, including his books and courses, you can
visit his website at awiseandhappylife.com.
We're gonna make sure you have a link to thatin the show notes just in case you're driving
and not in a place to jot that down.
So we'll make sure you have access to hiswebsite if you wanna book a call and and and
get the coaching that a lot of us need in thisspace.
(32:35):
And there's some free stuff.
Oh, amazing.
Free stuff.
Good.
Yeah.
Check out the website.
Free downloadable book about meditation andover 300 self evaluation and instructional
pamphlets.
Wow.
Okay.
Well, there's a ton of resources on thewebsite.
I don't know if I I'm I'm sure I saw some ofthem when I was doing some research on you, but
not the 300.
(32:55):
So go check out the website.
And if you're in the middle of a divorce andneed any support navigating the financial side
of things, you can visit us at allegiant d sdot com, and we're here to help you rebuild
your life from a financial perspective and doso with some peace and practicality.
Don't forget to subscribe to Broke Up NotBroken for more episodes just like this that
blend the emotional healing with financialempowerment.
(33:17):
Until next time.
Love it.
Welcome back to another episode of broke up notbroken.
(00:03):
I'm your host, Jamie Lima and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions and Secure Split.
Today's guest is Bob Martin, an author, formermob lawyer, professor of wellness, certified
meditation teacher, and someone whose lifestory is just as jaw dropping as it is
inspiring.
Bob went from navigating the high stakes legalworld of Miami's cocaine cowboy era to becoming
(00:26):
the mindfulness coordinator at Elon University.
University.
Along the way, he survived a painful divorce,battled addiction, and rebuilt his own life
from the inside out.
With a JD, MSW, and multiple meditationcertificate certifications, Bob now brings
mindfulness and emotional mastery to at riskyouth, Fortune 500 leaders, and today to all of
(00:47):
us.
We're gonna talk about how to use mindfulnessnot not just for survival, but as a discipline
to rebuild your finances, your relationships,and your identity after loss.
So buckle up, grab a cup of coffee or yourbeverage of choice.
Let's once again get you both personally andfinancially empowered.
Bob, it's so great to have you with us heretoday.
Thanks for having me.
This is such a privilege to talk to folks who,you know, are facing these kinds of issues and
(01:11):
to be able to contribute a little bit of whatI've experienced and gone through.
Yeah.
You you've been around the block and then some,man.
So we can we can go in a lot of differentdirections with this this conversation, but
maybe we just start off with your ownexperience with divorce and and how that really
shaped your, you know, your outlook on thingsand and I guess you as a person.
Yeah.
It was it was miserable, I guess, is the bestway to to describe it.
(01:35):
My, my ex was drinking, and when she wasn'tdrinking, we could make some progress moving
forward.
And then when she was, it would fall apart.
And we were engaged in that fight, and it was afight for several years.
And one of the things that I I I certainly cameto know, and even as a lawyer, I can say this
(02:00):
with great confidence, that not every lawyer'smindset is the same.
You know?
There are a lot of not gonna say a lot.
There are divorce lawyers out of there thatsimply are employed because they have a
reputation for having fangs.
And when the client is full of retribution andanger, they'll look for a lawyer that's going
(02:25):
to be tough and get every last penny out of theother side.
And if that happens, you know, you're gonnaprobably wind up with legal bills that are
gonna probably equal what the settlementbetween you is.
In my particular divorce, you know, when whenwe went down that road and, you know, that mean
(02:46):
that decision to divorce is a tough onebecause, you know, you you get married and you
take a vow, you know, that you're gonna be tilldeath do us part in the liken.
And then there comes just a time when you haveto renegotiate that vow because it's just not
out.
There's more harm that's coming out of therelationship than help.
And so, you know, that decision gets made.
(03:08):
My I I I I had a lawyer who was both my friendand somebody I had great confidence.
Was a great lawyer, and he was very bargainoriented.
My wife's lawyer was not, and it just, turnedout to be a mess.
So be careful, you know, about who you chooseas a lawyer and what their reputation is and
(03:32):
why you're choosing that lawyer because it canmake a huge difference in how things go.
That's not to say that, you know, competencyhas anything to do with it, but it really in in
in this area of the law, you know, where theperson's mindset, where the lawyer's mindset
is, where the client's mindset is, or what theywant out of the case may not be necessarily
(03:55):
reasonable Yeah.
Because emotions are involved.
You you're you're perfectly describing myexperience with divorce.
My my my attorney my attorney was pretty good,little bit of a teddy bear in some respects,
whereas on the other side, you know, she hireda bulldog and, you know, that I end up paying
(04:16):
that bill multiple times over.
And you're you're absolutely right.
Like, these attorneys these attorneys arethey're not really trained as mediators.
Right?
They're trained as litigators, and that'sreally what what sometimes drags these these
cases on and and forces you to spend a a prettypenny on them.
Mhmm.
Mhmm.
(04:36):
Yeah.
I I what I offered her when we first startedspeaking wound up to be more than she wound up
with, not even considering her $80,000 legalbill, which I did not pay, by the way.
Well, you lucked out.
Good job.
Good for you.
I did look out.
I I just absolutely refused to pay it becauseit was unnecessarily you know, it was it was
(05:01):
unnecessarily blown up when it didn't have tobe.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've But there's you know, you you still haveyou still have some resentment that follows it.
There's still emotional scars that are there.
I'll tell you that there is a medit I teachmeditation.
So there is a meditation called the lovingkindness meditation, and it's a meditation that
(05:22):
is designed to help you to learn to open yourheart Mhmm.
To be more kind, more loving, and the likebecause that's what leads to happiness, being
more kind and loving in life.
If you look at people that aren't kind andaren't loving, they're not happy.
They're just not happy people.
So, the way that it works is you start byoffering blessings to somebody who you care for
(05:45):
and then to a neutral, maybe to yourself, andyou work out with more and more difficult
people until so trying to open your hearts upto people that, you know, are difficult.
And even today now, it's been twenty five yearssince the divorce, my ex is still at the end of
that line.
So, I mean, there is there I mean, even even mewho practices love and kindness and everything
(06:10):
else, there's still resentment.
Yeah.
You know?
Then it goes on, and your relationship goes on.
And my kids, you know, they're still it's sheis their mother, and their relationship with
her, you know, affects me.
And so so it's it's not like it's over and it'sgone.
Well, if you don't have kids, maybe it is.
But if you have kids
Yeah.
(06:30):
Kids is kids is a huge aspect of divorce and,you know, how we deal with our you know, what
our relationships are like with the kids duringdivorce and what their experience is like and
so on and so forth.
So, like, when you I was gonna save thisquestion for later, but you've already you've
already brought this up.
But I so I wanna I wanna I wanna I wanna gowith it here.
(06:52):
But how do you how do you help with the becauseresilience is a word that I picked up and the
research that I was doing on you is leading upto our call.
So and it's a word that comes up in a lot ofthese conversations, the resilience in, like,
one foot in the front of another.
You just gotta, like, get through it.
How does resilience play into mindfulness andhow you can model behaviors for your kids?
(07:15):
Well, you know, one of the best ways todescribe mindfulness is to is by saying what
it's not, and what it's not is mindlessness.
So, you know, if you are being mindless aboutyour reactions with your kids and your
responses to what they're doing and what yousay, and you're just doing them on impulse
without thinking about, you know, the effectthat they're having on other people without any
(07:37):
empathy, without any compassion, without anykindness, and you're just reacting, then it's
not gonna be a very good model for your kids.
Yeah.
So what what mindfulness teaches is themisconception about mindfulness is that it's
something about finding peace and tranquilityand calmness and emptying your mind and having,
(08:02):
like, white noise inside your brain and justbeing able to breathe and, you know, be at
ease.
And it's nothing like that.
That is not what mindfulness is about.
It's about this.
In life, you will experience a lot of pain.
(08:24):
You will get cut.
You'll break your knee.
You'll have to have a hip operation.
Your heart will be broken.
Your spirit will be broken.
All of these are pains.
They're pains, they're gonna come to you and ispart of life.
And there's no real way to suppress any ofthat.
You can't make it go away.
(08:45):
Yeah.
But what you can do is you can cultivate orincrease your tolerance for pain.
You know, the easiest example is one personmight get a little scratch on their arm.
And they're all worried about getting aninfection, and they're running to get the
antibiotic, and they're going, wow, wow, and Ican't do anything and oh my arm.
(09:09):
And they just have no tolerance for the pain orthe worry about the consequences.
They have just no tolerance there.
Somebody else might get the same scratch andslap a little iodine on and go back to
business.
Yeah.
It's not that the pain is any different so thatthe the wound is any different.
It's that their tolerance or their approach tothe wound is different.
(09:31):
And what mindfulness teaches us is it teachesus to develop tolerance to discomfort.
And the best way that I could describe it isthe main instruction is to form an intention to
put your attention on something like a candleof your breath, and then your mind let me back
(09:51):
up a second.
Have you ever had the experience of listeningto somebody and then noticing that you're not
listening?
Yes.
Right?
Mhmm.
Reading a book and then realize that you readevery single word of the last three pages and
none of it stuck.
Well, we do it when we're driving.
Right?
Sometimes we're driving and we're like, how thehell did I get here?
How did I get here?
Okay.
(10:11):
So when you're when you're not listening tothis person, all of a sudden, something like a
little alarm goes off in your brain and it goeslike, psst.
Hey.
You're not listening.
Right?
Mhmm.
And then it's usually followed by a wholestream of judgments like I should have been
listening, and what am I gonna do now?
And meanwhile, you're still not listening.
And then after a while, it kinda quiets down,and then you just start listening again.
(10:36):
You begin again.
Right?
Yeah.
And that's what the main practice of meditationis.
You say you're gonna put your attention on thecandle, your mind wanders away, your mind goes,
hey.
You're not paying attention to the candle.
When that occurs, you get what it feels like towake up from the default mind blah blah blah.
(11:01):
But the mind's going blah blah blah.
I should have done this.
I gotta talk to that guy and thinking about amillion things.
And then all of a sudden, you wake up.
Oh, I'm not paying attention to the candle.
Now most people would kind of give up at thatpoint.
They say, oh, I I screwed up.
I'm not doing it right, and, you know, thisisn't for me.
But in meditation, what we say is no.
(11:21):
Go back and begin again and put your attentionback on the candle and begin again.
Mhmm.
And then your mind wanders and you notice itand you come back and you begin again.
And then your mind wanders and you come backand you begin again.
Every time you do that, neuropsychologically,you're creating a neural pathway that says, I
(11:42):
can begin again.
I can start over.
I can get up.
It's not it's the same exact neural pathwaythat gets you back up on the saddle when a
horse throws you off.
Yeah.
Okay?
So what you're practicing is you're practicingdeveloping a habit of persistence, of
tolerating discomfort.
(12:03):
And that makes you stronger.
And it's not that you develop quietness, butit's out of the mental strength that you
develop that your life is more calm because youcan tolerate the pain that's there better.
And that's what gives you the resilience.
That resilience means getting back up afteryou've been knocked down.
(12:26):
Mhmm.
And you build that resilience through thediscipline.
Right?
I mean, all about the discipline of juststicking with it and staying like, because I do
this too.
I I meditate my did meditate myself.
I and and I feel like it's always, you know,there's they they they they say, like, the
practice of meditation because it really is youhave to practice at it because Practice.
As as we're talking about this, I realized,like, I haven't I haven't meditated in in weeks
(12:47):
at this point because other things come up, andthen I'm gonna get, like, whatever.
Right.
Right.
And I'm like, wow.
I'm I really suck at meditation because, like,I haven't done it in and done it in weeks, but
it's really just about sticking with it andtrying to stay focused on it and really because
it is so so beneficial.
Yeah.
Thoughts on that?
And when you notice that that you haven't doneit for weeks, you go back and begin again.
(13:08):
Yeah.
You know, you let the judgments go.
You say, okay.
Well, you know, the best thing I can do is justgo back and begin again.
And you might flick off again for anothercouple of weeks, and you go back and begin
again.
And every time you do that, you're teachingyourself that you have the capacity to come
back.
Yeah.
And it's like Rocky said in Rocky four.
(13:30):
It ain't about how many times you get knockeddown.
It's about whether you get back up.
Yep.
You've you've lived, say, like, a thousandlives, it seems like, with all, like, the the
experience you have as an attorney and thewhole the Miami situation, like like the like,
it's you're you've you've you've you've beenall over the place.
What was that personal like, was there a lightbulb moment, or was it a series of moments?
(13:56):
Or, like, what what was that, like, personalmoment in time where you're like, I need to
like, now it has to be all about mindfulness.
Was it the divorce, or was it a combination ofall those things?
No.
The divorce didn't come till way later.
Okay.
The divorce came about because I had alreadymade that pivot, and the woman that I was
married to just wasn't I wasn't the man shemarried.
(14:17):
Neither neither was I mean, I wasn't the manthat she married, and she didn't want the guy
that I was.
She wanted the guy that I had been.
Yeah.
The ambitious son of a bitch, you know, go gethim kinda guy who really threw myself into my
(14:38):
work and let her didn't bother her too much.
Mhmm.
Now now I'm being more mindful.
It was it was just different.
The the point came just like it does for somany folks.
When I was hitting bottom in Miami, I had mobmob clients.
I was going out with them.
I was doing a lot of cocaine.
(14:58):
I was drinking a lot.
In Miami in those days, Cheevous and CokeCheevous Regal, you know, this Scott.
You know?
Cheevous and Coke meant a whole different Andand I was seeing a therapist, and I had already
by the age 32, I'd already paid off my house.
(15:21):
And I was thinking that I was everything.
I was arrogant, and I was investing in stuff.
I was losing money as fast as I was making it.
And, I mean, people would walk into my officewith $9,000 in cash maybe twice a day.
So it was it was crazy times.
And I was seeing a therapist, and I was gonnahave to refinance my house.
(15:44):
And I asked him, should I do this?
And I figured he would come back with some kindof therapist talk like, well, Bob, what do you
think?
Do you think you should do it?
But instead of that, he picked up some coinsand he started throwing the coins on the desk
and counting them up and making somecomputations, came up with the number, picked
(16:05):
up a book, opened it to that chapter number,and showed to me.
The title of the chapter was retreat.
And I'm sitting there while he's doing all thisthinking that my you know, he's turned into
some kind of soothsayer, gypsy, shaman orsomething.
It got pissed off, cursed him out, stomped outof there, but it was like that word.
(16:29):
It was like stamped on my forehead.
And so I started just coming back from some ofthe excessive behaviors.
Mhmm.
And finally, I went back to him and I said,what what was it that you did?
And he said, well, that's the I Ching, the IChing, the classical book of changes.
It's the Chinese practice.
What kind of Chinese?
(16:50):
He said, Taoist.
He said, what's Taoism?
So he told me it's like a sister of Buddhism.
Okay?
Turns out that my therapist was the Englishlanguage editor, devotee, and primary student
of a seventy second generation grandmaster fromthe Taoist temple, the Shaolin temple, the Kung
(17:15):
Fu temple.
Okay.
72 generations of passing the wisdom down.
Fourteen hundred years of father to son wisdom.
This guy, master watching me, came to Miami thenext week.
And the moment I met him, I said, I need toknow what this guy knows.
(17:35):
I just I just need I mean, he just had thatpresence.
Yeah.
He was amazing.
And so he taught us Taoism and we studied itand I practiced with the I Ching, that coin
thing, which by the way is one of the mostamazing practices that you can engage.
(17:57):
It's not it's not an oracle.
It's not a soothsayer.
It's not a fortune telling thing.
It's really a bridge between your rationalverbal mind and your intuitive mind.
It allows you to ask your intuitive mind aquestion, and then it provides you with the
means of verbalizing it.
Yeah.
(18:18):
So it strengthens your left side brain.
And, anyway, before I that could be a wholebunch of
I I know.
I wanna I wanna I wanna be able to tie thisinto the financial aspects of this because this
is, like, absolutely mind blowing to me, youknow, that you've had this experience and,
like, you were able to just, like, youbasically changed the you were always the
person that you are.
Right?
Like, if this is all part of your journey, but,like, how did you isn't doesn't it didn't you
(18:44):
must have been either was it challenging tokinda shed that old life or was it more of a
rebirth and invigorating for you?
I I mean, obviously, you know, had going Oh.
Going through a divorce stemming from thischange, you know, isn't isn't always a good
thing, but was it a was it a what was it like?
It was
like my my dad was Hungarian royalty and theBolsheviks wiped out his whole family.
(19:05):
K.
My mom was Roma Gypsy and the Nazis wiped outher whole family.
So we had no ancestors at all, and they hadcome to believe that there was not a god that
was worth worshiping.
So I did not grow up in any kind of religiousfamily.
The only thing that I had to give me a guide onhow to live life was the fact that my father
was a virtuous and meticulous man, thankfully.
(19:29):
So when I was introduced to master Ni and ITaoism is not a god based philosophy.
It's it's it's it's basically yin yang Mhmm.
You know, and the energy based.
If there is energy in the universe and it hascertain characteristics, and if you understand
(19:51):
those characteristics, they comprise the flow.
And if you wanna go with the flow, you need tounderstand the flow.
And that's what Taoism is.
It helps you to understand what's going on inthe energetic environment.
I don't mean like woo wee energy.
Like like the energy that you and I might feeltalking to each other right now.
(20:11):
Yeah.
It's, you know, it's an evocative energy.
It evokes thoughts from both of us.
Other times, you're engaged with somebody andit's a suppressive energy.
You can't think of anything to say.
Sometimes people wanna listen to you.
If you're swimming into shore, sometimes thetide is going with you and sometimes it's
against you.
These are all the energies in the environmentaround you, and the best thing that you can do
(20:35):
is learn how to align yourself with the energyso you live effectively and efficiently.
So that's what Taoism teaches.
And what was exciting about it, just to answeryour question, was I had spent my entire life
trying to figure out by experiment how to dothis and what works and what doesn't work, and
(20:56):
I hobbled together a basic idea.
But when they handed me the data Jing, I lookedat it and said, damn.
This is an operating manual for living.
And for the first time in my life, I was givena wisdom that, you know, had survived for four
thousand years that made a great deal of senseand was based on just doing the right thing.
(21:23):
And and I just took to it, and I was gratefulfor it.
And I just wanted to eat it up and knoweverything about it.
Amazing.
So yeah.
How do we take this information?
And when we're in the throes of a divorcebecause I'm I'm thinking, like, how I could
have been much better at being more mindfulwhen I was going through this experience
myself.
Right?
(21:43):
You're dealing with uncertainty and fear andfinancial stress and strain and the the dealing
with attorneys and the legal aspects andeverything like you.
You're in the center of this tornado.
So for those of for those people that arelistening right now and and whether it's on the
financial side of things, whether it's on theemotional side of things, doesn't really make a
difference how you answer this, but how do youremain mindful when, I'll just say it, the shit
(22:11):
is spiraling out of control or and everythingis everything is falling apart around you?
Right.
Well, have a mentor who you trust.
Take my course in meditation, which I'd be alittle self promoting, it's a great course.
I've worked with a lot of folks that are in themiddle of these things.
That's not a problem.
(22:32):
But save that.
There's two things that I would say if youraudience takes away these two things, it will
help.
One, create some space for beauty in your life.
Go out and watch the sunrise.
Make a habit of it.
Put things on your desk.
I I have my I have a couple of my tai chi men.
(22:56):
Mhmm.
Right?
I love my tai chi men.
They're on my desk here.
My little my little elephants over here.
I've got pictures of my loved ones.
My whole wall here is covered with my heroes.
I curate my environment to be inspirational andto bring beauty into my life and get a dog.
(23:16):
The dog will love you.
Unconditionally.
Unconditionally.
Seriously, experience or take a find if there'sa hiking trail nearby or or a park that you can
go and sit, you know, among trees.
Bring some beauty take some time to bring somebeauty into your life because
(23:37):
neuropsychologically, it makes a hugedifference between your left prefrontal and
right prefrontal cortex.
There's all kinds of science behind it, butforget about that.
You just need to make the space for beauty inyour life and remind yourself that there are
sunrises, that you can go into a church not forthe spiritual, but to look at the crazy lattice
(24:00):
and mattes of the stained glass and how thelight comes through it and what it makes you
feel.
You you can't ignore that, and it strengthensyou.
And it reminds you that, you know, thesetroubles that we're in, they are they're
they're they're horrible, and they'redifficult, and they're all of that, but they're
(24:23):
not everything.
So that's that's one thing.
And and the other thing is to remember that youare not your thoughts.
We live our lives inside of our thoughts.
We are our thoughts.
We go up and down in the roller coaster of ouremotions, but they are not in in our language,
(24:45):
we say, oh, I had a thought.
Right?
Mhmm.
I had a thought.
Well, who is the I that had the thought?
You are the I that had the thought.
It's only a thought.
And if you wait thirty two seconds, it'll begone and it's gonna be replaced by another
thought, and then another thought, and thenanother thought.
(25:09):
You can't buy a carton of milk with a thought.
They're just thoughts.
You're not your thoughts.
And our thoughts control so much of what we dowhen we live inside of them that we have the
ability to step outside and realize that we areso much more than our thoughts.
Now having said that, there's one other littlepiece.
(25:29):
You're not your emotions.
Now what is an emotion?
Here's where this can be really, really helpfulif you can just it's like Susan Salzburg says,
meditation isn't hard.
Remembering to do meditation is hard.
And so this what I'm just gonna say is nothard.
Remembering it is hard.
What is an emotion?
(25:49):
An emotion is nothing more than a thoughtcombined with a body sensation, a physical
sensation.
Like, I were to say to you, no.
I love you, and I don't feel a certaintightness or yearning in my heart, in my chest,
I don't feel anything in my body when I say it,it's just an intellectual comment.
(26:13):
Mhmm.
It's nothing more.
And if I feel those sensations, but they're notaccompanied with the thought, I probably would
think I have indigestion.
Right?
So either one of those deconstructed thethought and the body sensation, they are that
(26:33):
that's what creates an emotion, a feeling.
It's the thought combined with the emotion.
And so when you are feel like you're becomingoverwhelmed by a feeling.
If you can just reflect and say, what is thebody sensation that I'm feeling?
Where in my body am I feeling this?
Am I feeling it in my chest, in my cheeks, inmy neck, my eyes?
(26:56):
Where am I feeling this?
And you can identify the body sensation.
If you just do that, it will ground you in thepresent moment and it will take you away from
all of your regrets and all of yourcatastrophizing.
You'll just be here in this moment.
Where am I feeling this in my body?
(27:17):
And then what is the exact words that I'm usingin my thoughts?
And if you just do that, that little mindfulactivity, where do I feel this in my body?
What are the words that I'm using?
By the time you get to where are the words thatI'm using, you already will be much calmer.
(27:40):
Because, again, your fear and your anxiety isbeing caused by something you regret from the
past or something you fear from the future.
But, generally, there's nothing in our presentmoment that's threatening us that we need to be
anxious about.
So if we can ground ourselves by looking forthe body sensation, we already are finding a
(28:04):
way to get a hold of our feelings.
I'll tell you the story that taught me this.
I'm at a retreat, and we're sitting on the mat.
We sit twenty minutes, walk twenty minutes, sittwenty minutes, walk twenty minutes, eat lunch
silently, silent retreat, you know, for fourdays.
And I'm sitting on the mat, and all of a suddenit just comes to me that this is the cure for
(28:28):
the whole world, and meditation's gonna fixeverything.
And we gotta we we can't spend any more timesitting on this mat.
Gotta We get out there and teach everybodymeditation because once we do that, the world
will be at peace and everything will be great.
And I just couldn't I couldn't hold myexcitement.
So I got up from the mat, I went to where theteachers were holed up in their room, and I
(28:50):
knocked on the door, and the teacher comes out.
Yes, Bob.
She said, meditation.
This is it, man.
We've got to do something.
We've got to get out there and teach everybody.
We've you know, going on.
She goes, oh, Okay.
So you're having some thoughts.
And I go, Yes, yes, yes.
I'm having lots of thoughts.
(29:10):
And she goes, And you're having some bodysensations?
I go, Yes, I'm having body sensations.
So you're having thoughts and you're havingbody sensations?
And I go, Oh, yeah.
I'm having thoughts and I'm having bodysensations.
I say, Yeah.
So I go, Back on the cushion?
She goes, Yeah.
(29:32):
So when you are familiar with some of thesetruisms about how we as human beings act, find
that there are ways that you can be more incontrol of these things which previously
thought controlled you.
Because the truth of the matter is that we arean animal that evolved for very primitive
(29:58):
circumstances, and we are not adapted to themodern world.
And so things about how our brain and our bodyand our our our fight flight reflex and our
rest and digest reflex Mhmm.
And our sense of connection and the like wereall designed to bring us together as tribes
(30:21):
because of survival and to scan for danger andstuff that worked really well in the jungle,
but doesn't work that well in the modernsystem.
So we have to take some action intentionally torebalance ourselves because we're not designed
for this environment.
(30:42):
Yeah.
So we have to intentionally redesign ourselves.
Yeah.
It's all about intention, and I think, yeah,that's a it's a beautiful it's a beautiful
place to leave us.
I mean, I wish we could talk about this all daylong because I really I'm so passionate about I
mean, I mean, I don't do a good I still need topractice more of it, right, and and and get
better at it.
And but I'm a firm believer in in meditationand and the self help stuff and eastern
(31:06):
medicine versus western medicine a lot oftimes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you need a coach.
Yeah.
You know?
I mean, I I I started and it was fits andstarts for years until I got a coach.
And then all of a sudden, was off to the races.
Yeah.
Well, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for your time today Happy to youknow, for your your vulnerability, your wisdom,
(31:27):
your commitment to transformation, like, of it,it resonates with with everything you're
saying.
And and I think, you know, in in general, Ithink your story just reminds us that no matter
where we are in life and what we're goingthrough with you know, if you can maintain that
presence, right, and that and that intention,then then you can get through anything.
And and for those people that are listening,like, I I can't I can't talk enough about that
(31:51):
self help component of this because we we oftenyou know, even my own situation, I relied on my
attorney to get me through my divorce.
And even as a financial professional at thattime, I I made mistakes in my own divorce, but
I was like, I've got it all all handled.
But I let some of the self help stuff go, and Ican't I can't say more about how important it
is.
So listeners, pay attention to thisconversation.
(32:14):
And if you wanna learn more about Bob and hiswork, including his books and courses, you can
visit his website at awiseandhappylife.com.
We're gonna make sure you have a link to thatin the show notes just in case you're driving
and not in a place to jot that down.
So we'll make sure you have access to hiswebsite if you wanna book a call and and and
get the coaching that a lot of us need in thisspace.
(32:35):
And there's some free stuff.
Oh, amazing.
Free stuff.
Good.
Yeah.
Check out the website.
Free downloadable book about meditation andover 300 self evaluation and instructional
pamphlets.
Wow.
Okay.
Well, there's a ton of resources on thewebsite.
I don't know if I I'm I'm sure I saw some ofthem when I was doing some research on you, but
not the 300.
(32:55):
So go check out the website.
And if you're in the middle of a divorce andneed any support navigating the financial side
of things, you can visit us at allegiant d sdot com, and we're here to help you rebuild
your life from a financial perspective and doso with some peace and practicality.
Don't forget to subscribe to Broke Up NotBroken for more episodes just like this that
blend the emotional healing with financialempowerment.
(33:17):
Until next time.
Love it.
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