August 27, 2025 • 29 mins
Jamie M. Lima is joined by Broc Buckles and Peter Ciravolo from BC Brokerage to discuss essential insurance considerations during and after divorce. The conversation explores the role of disability insurance in divorce planning, the importance of securing child support and alimony with insurance, and the necessity of reviewing policies post-divorce. Key insights on financial planning and maintaining account access are shared, along with tips for selecting a reliable insurance agent. The episode also covers insurance and estate planning across various income levels, considerations for new business owners, and the impact of social media on financial advice.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of broke up notbroken.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Jamie Lima and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions and Secure Split.
Today's guests are Brock Buckles and PeterServallo, cofounders of BC Brokerage, a
nationally licensed life and disabilityinsurance brokerage that's shaking up the way
we think about protection planning.
Specializing in working with business owners,high income earners, and individuals in major
(00:23):
life transitions, Brock and Peter are on amission to just demystify insurance, Whether
it's preserving income, safeguarding your kid'sfuture, or protecting your financial plan
during or after divorce, they make sureinsurance isn't just an afterthought.
It's a tool for long term security and clarity.
This episode is gonna give you practicalanswers, straight talk, and maybe even a new
outlook on the impact that the proper amount ofinsurance can have on your future.
(00:47):
So buckle up, grab a cup of coffee, or yourbeverage of choice.
Let's once again get you personally andfinancially empowered.
Brock and Peter, so good to have you guys withus today.
Good to be here, man.
Thanks for having us.
No.
Of course.
Of course.
And and we've known each other for a while now,so this is gonna be an amazing conversation.
I've been waiting to have you guys on becauseour listeners are going through some stuff.
(01:09):
Yep.
And and one of the biggest afterthoughts that II see in the divorce financial planning space
when helping people navigate divorce and thinkabout their future moving forward is the asset
protection, estate planning piece.
So I'm I'm super super pumped that you guys arehere with us to to shed some light on that.
So and and leading up to our our convo here, Iknow, Peter, not so much, you know, as far as
(01:36):
experience goes in the divorce realm, but Iknow, Brock, you've had some experience with it
in your in your life.
Yeah.
Definitely, man.
I mean, I was pretty young.
I think it was in third grade when my parentsgot divorced.
And so, obviously, I can appreciate kind of thethe how tough that can be and the things that
come along with it.
And, you know, from the financial perspective,you don't necessarily understand everything
(01:57):
that's going on when you're when you're thatyoung.
But as I got older, I started to kind ofunderstand some different things about it and
how it can affect people's lives.
And so very familiar with the topic and, yeah,happy to talk about it, man.
Yeah, man.
So so let's just start with the basics.
Right?
And we know because we're in this world, we'vebeen living it and breathing it for so many
(02:18):
years now, but our a lot of our listeners don'treally understand how insurance ties in,
especially around divorce.
So maybe talk a little bit about that and whatyou've seen in your in your world.
Yeah.
You want this one, Peter?
You want me to take this one?
Yeah.
I mean, I'm happy to take it.
I mean, one of the largest thing is justorganization and looking at things from a
claims perspective.
(02:39):
Right?
If something were to happen, who is liable?
Who needs to pay for it?
What proportions might need to be split.
So, I mean, every day we're reviewing policiesand definitely making changes to current ones,
implementing new coverage.
Definitely a whole lot of different optionsthere.
(03:00):
Yeah.
And I would would say to piggyback off of thattoo, one of the biggest ones is, obviously, if
you're married and then you're not married anylonger, you might not want the person that you
chose not to be married to anymore to receive alife insurance benefit or something like that.
Right?
So making sure you have your beneficiaries inline is is a is a huge thing.
What do mean?
You if you pass away, you don't want your exwife to get to get the money?
(03:23):
Whether her her her her pool boy Yeah.
Her and the pool boy.
That happens all the time.
Right?
I mean, we we were joking about it, but ithappens all the time.
I mean, I think about when you just said that,I think about a case that I was I was working
on when I was back at the big name firm I Icame from years ago.
And even before I left, I think we were, like,three years into probate because the wrong
(03:44):
beneficiaries were listed on an account.
There weren't there weren't beneficiarieslisted on another policy.
It was an absolute disaster.
So just that tiny little administrative task ofmaking sure that the right beneficiaries are in
place can save your loved ones so manyheadaches later on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A 100%.
I mean, what what could you think of that wouldbe worse than, like, if something were to
(04:06):
happen to you, other parts of the family or thekids being involved of things just not being
set up appropriately?
So that's why, you know, to what you do, Jamie,it's always important to stop, take a pause,
and understand, alright.
Beyond the emotional side, there's a financialaspect to this.
And also obviously, tensions are high a lot oftimes, but you have to calm yourself down and
(04:28):
and be like, okay.
But, logically, what are the steps that we haveto work through as we're going through this?
Absolutely.
Can you talk a little bit about how disabilityinsurance is factored into?
Because that's a big one that we see peoplemiss all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think so, man.
So in terms of how it's related to divorce orjust what it is?
Or Yeah.
I mean, like, in I'm I'm thinking about onecase that we have right now where this actually
(04:49):
came up and and the we're actually mediating acase right now.
And the disability that this gentleman has inplace right now is is not gonna cover him.
There's there's not a lot of income coverage.
Right?
So if he gets disabled and he's unable to work,I I I can't remember the exact percentage off
the top my head, but it wasn't a lot.
So we're certainly wasn't gonna cover theexpenses of two households, his his now alimony
(05:13):
and child support.
So so having disability in place is alsoprobably just as important as life insurance
because it's not always about you being sixfeet under.
Yeah.
Absolute well, I and actually, Jamie, that's agood point.
There's actually a much a much larger chance ofyou becoming disabled than there is of you
passing away.
Right?
I mean, the insurance world, we call thatmortality versus morbidity.
(05:35):
But, you know, one in four of today's 20 yearolds, right, in their working career will be
disabled at some point.
We know that statistically.
Doesn't mean forever.
Doesn't mean you can't work at all.
It just means at some point, you can't work inthe way that you are right now.
Okay?
So that's that's the fact number one.
Number two, a lot of people don't actuallyunderstand the way that their disability
(05:56):
benefits work.
Right?
So I would imagine a lot of people that arelistening to this podcast, maybe they're
working somewhere.
They have a fifty or sixty percent groupdisability through work.
Right?
And you're thinking maybe to yourself, well, II could probably get by on that.
Right?
Fifty or sixty percent, if you're a diligentsaver, maybe you can.
Right?
But if your employer pays for it, now you needto know that that benefit is taxable coming to
(06:18):
you.
So you're not getting 60%.
You might be getting closer to 40 to 45%.
So that's the baseline.
Right?
And if you're divorced and there's alimony andyou're paying for things, you need to know that
first and foremost, and then that's when youcan start thinking about getting a private
policy to kinda help with that.
So line up the expenses, know if something whatif something were to happen, how much money you
(06:40):
actually have coming in, and then kind of workbackwards.
Yeah.
I'm I'm just thinking about this case rightnow.
I mean, he's in he's gonna be in a world ofhurt if he if if something happens to him.
And and it's you know, most of us these daysare not digging ditches.
Right?
Let's just face it.
Like, we're not you know, like, my dad is stilldigging ditches at the age of 72.
God bless him.
But for dudes like us, we're behind a keyboard.
(07:02):
But that doesn't mean that we there was onetime when I actually got hurt working around
the house, and I couldn't work for three monthsbecause I couldn't type with my right hand.
So just having that disability insurance was agame changer.
And and, like, I'm thinking through this guyright now, and it's probably a call I have to
make after this conversation.
Like, you really need to think about thisbecause if something goes awry, even though
(07:23):
you're, you know, an IT person, you could stillyou could still have have a problem here.
I wanna I wanna go back to the the the the someof this too, or maybe you can talk a little bit
about this.
One of the things we try to do in many casesthat we work on is to protect child support and
alimony.
And we're we're so what have you seen workswell in that respect?
(07:45):
Because this is attorneys missed this, and I'mnot trying to harp on attorneys, but they
missed this all the time.
And then when I review marital settlementagreements and the documents that people are
getting ready to sign off on, whether they'regonna impact them for the rest of their lives
effectively, insurance is something that theymiss all the time to protect those income
payments.
So, like, what do you what do you like, from atactical perspective, what would you recommend?
(08:09):
Yeah.
I think at the end of the day, one thing Iwould say above all else is that you cannot
rely on workplace benefits.
Most people, they think they're covered throughwork.
Those benefits can change.
I would say when it comes to anything arounddivorce related, we are usually seeing private
policies get implemented that are purchasedspecifically for that reason.
(08:31):
You know, like depending on children's age,family goals, expectations, things like that,
you know, we're building term ladders orpolicies built specifically around college
funding or something around the house or themortgage or something like that.
Right?
Just how you alluded to earlier on thedisability income, building policies that the
amount is sufficient.
(08:53):
Like Brock pointed out, there are a lot ofcaveats with workplace benefit policies.
So even at that 60% benefit, right, it's 60% ofwhat?
Right?
Sometimes it's only of base salary.
So for our sales professionals or those who arecommission based, it might not even cover any
of that.
Most of the time too, workplace benefits, thedisability policies, they're capped at either 5
(09:16):
or $10,000.
For most families, right, I mean, $10,000 getsevaporated in an instant when it comes to a
household monthly budget.
Right?
So really rightsizing the coverage, and I can'tsay it enough because everyone wants to talk
about insurance, and they look at it from justpremium, premium, premium.
And I completely get that.
(09:36):
And we can always find ways to make policiescheaper, but I really want to frame it with
anybody.
Like, if a claim were to happen, we want to bemade whole.
Insurance is not there to make you rich.
And it's also if something were to happen, youwant it to pay, and you want to be made whole
and be replaced.
(09:57):
So just thinking about from a claimsperspective.
And whether this is on a car, it's on a lifeinsurance policy, it's a disability policy,
whatever it might be, just shifting it to, hey,if something were to happen because bad things
happen to good people, what do we want to havehappen?
How much would it be?
And really just thinking about it holistically.
And you I mean, you brought up so manydifferent things.
(10:18):
And and it's not just the life insurance,disability insurance too.
There's other insurances that are in play.
Like, you mentioned the auto and homeowners andall that.
Like, all of those different policies need tobe revisited.
Yep.
Yep.
And you guys work with and I I'm I'm I love thework that you guys do with financial advisers
in this space because and it's it's like akudos and kudos to the two of you for doing
(10:42):
this because I am in all a lot of the sameforums you're in, and you guys know that
there's a lot of bad advice in this space beingtossed around.
Yep.
And there's a lot of bad advice on TikTokinsurance.
And, Brock, like, the some of the stuff thatyou come up with on these videos is amazing.
I love it.
Thanks, man.
It's it's so good.
(11:03):
It's so good.
So if you're listening and you are you're notfollowing these guys in social media, you need
to because if you're gonna get not only gonnaget educated, but you're gonna laugh your ass
off.
But talk to me about, like, the we're all cutfrom the same cloth from a financial planning
perspective.
So so from a financial planning perspective,where does insurance fit in, especially when it
relating to the like, if a client comes to youand they're tell they tell you, like, I'm
(11:27):
getting a divorce, what are you what are, like,what are you telling them first?
Yeah.
That's a good question.
So I would say, first of all, like, let's lookat everything.
Right?
Bring me what insurance think, first of all, wehave to list out all the insurance policies.
So what do you know that you have?
Did you take care of the finances?
Right?
Like, let's start there because maybe you're onthe other end of it and your significant other
(11:50):
or your spouse was the one that kinda paideverything.
And if you ask somebody, do you have anumbrella policy?
They might not even know what an umbrellapolicy is, let alone if they have one.
Right?
So I would say start with figuring out what youhave and then break it down and go to somebody
like you, Jamie, who works with someone likeus, and let's go through those policies.
(12:12):
Who's on the policies?
How the coverages are listed?
Who the beneficiaries are?
And then say, okay.
How are we splitting this up?
Because a lot of times, like, this is your car.
This is my car.
Right now, those two cars are bundled under oneinsurance policy, but they're not gonna be
forever.
And so I think kind of just taking it one at atime and going through those insurance policies
(12:35):
and don't rely on yourself too much to do it.
I would say find a good person to work with,but go through them individually and see how
they're set up and go through all the types ofcoverage that you have and break them down and
and come up with an action plan of how you needto kind of strategically split away from what
you're doing with your former significantother.
(12:57):
And this is not just a message message to theclient.
Right?
This is also a message to financial advisersthat are listening to the to you say this.
Right?
Because Absolutely.
I I I see it time and time again.
Financial advisers just don't know.
For whatever reason, they don't understand howto handle this type of stuff.
And and I would even before I started gettinginto this niche, so to speak, over the course
(13:17):
of the last few years, I thought I had it allhandled.
Then I get into it.
I'm like, wow.
There's a lot more here than I thought.
Yep.
So I appreciate the message.
So if you're listening and you're a financialadviser and you're here on LinkedIn with us
because this maybe will pop pull this clip,maybe listen to what Brock's saying because
it's it's it's, incredibly important.
Anything to add, Peter?
Yeah.
I would add that a lot of these contracts arepretty adjustable.
(13:41):
There's an owner.
There's an insured.
There's a payer.
And there's a beneficiary.
That's how it is on almost all insurancecontracts, right?
One big thing we're talking about beneficiariesa lot.
How about the payer?
Making sure that bank account gets updated.
I can't tell you how many people they letpolicies lapse, and then their health isn't the
(14:03):
same, and then they're uninsurable, or thenthey're not meeting the obligations of a
contract or their divorce agreement.
And now they need to go get a new insurancepolicy, and the premiums are even higher.
You know, being able to change any of thosefour positions in an insurance contract and
just monitoring them is important.
Another one I would just add kinda with any ofthe servicing stuff, what Brock said, just see
(14:26):
what you have.
Get your logins.
Right?
That sounds insane.
Right?
But most people, they have their Chase Bankaccount login.
They have their Netflix.
Right?
They have whatever else, their Amazon Prime.
But they have no clue where their autoinsurance policy is.
Right?
Just like a kind of a good, like, justhousekeeping thing.
Like, add the your auto insurance to your AppleWallet.
(14:49):
Right?
Most states, they're gonna start moving to, youknow, digital driver's license too.
Really just staying organized.
That's really the biggest mantra I can say withanything insurance related.
Because most households, they have probablyabout a dozen policies.
They have a couple cars, umbrella, a home,vacation home, umbrella, life insurance policy
(15:10):
one, life insurance policy two, spouse'spolicy, DI, something that Uncle Eddie sold
them that they have no clue what it is, andeverything in between.
So just getting organized, getting your logins,and keeping it simple.
You you had mentioned earlier about about thethe the different aspect, like being able to
(15:30):
take over policy or can make changes to thepolicies and so on.
That brought up another question for and eitherone of you can take this.
What we one of some of the advice that we giveto depending on the circumstance is we would
recommend that someone get a in the get in apolicy on the payor.
Right?
If child support and alimony is in play.
(15:51):
How easy is that in real in real life?
Because we recommend it a lot, and I it soundseasy, and I've I mean, I've I've seen it happen
before in in in a lot of cases, but it's a verysmall sample size.
You guys are dealing with a much larger if thelaw of law large numbers with you guys.
So, like, how easy is that for somebody to say,I'm due alimony for the next ten years.
(16:13):
It's a thousand dollars a month.
I wanna cover those dollars on that particularperson's life.
Because, again, to your to your point earlier,Peter, is people do let these things lapse.
You know?
And and I was responsible with my lifeinsurance policy, and I had one in place when I
was paying alimony, but not everybody's thatresponsible.
And they don't make the payment or they changethe beneficiary after a couple years because
(16:34):
they think they're gonna be able to get awaywith it.
How easy is that for somebody to to own apolicy with somebody else to protect that
income?
Yeah.
I mean, as far as changing it, it's pretty easyas far as servicing.
I would say one thing, it's a huge tidbit notmany advisers or clients know about it, would
just have be having a third party notice on thepolicy.
(16:54):
So that there's a person even outside of thecontract, like a financial planner, like a
lawyer, you know, who's even outside of theservicing agent of the of the contract.
Right?
You can add a third party notice.
I think that that is a huge value add, and it'ssomething that we see more like family offices
kind of doing when it comes to service workaround insurance policies.
(17:15):
That's what I would say on that one.
But it is pretty easy to change.
The only thing is the owner is the only one whohas the authority to change that kind of stuff.
But is is it easy to start a new policy onsomebody else?
If you have that insurable interest, is iteasy?
I mean, is it easy?
Yes.
The person would need to know that they'regetting insurance on them.
Yeah.
I mean, you can't just be application.
(17:35):
You know? Don't have
Don't have to go to underwriting.
To answer your question directly, Jamie, yeah,you can absolutely do it.
You can have an owner of a policy, a payer of apolicy, and the payers, like, the person that
you wanted to really have it together, like,they're gonna get the notices.
So, yeah, you can absolutely do it and havethem listed.
That's and and it's it's it's kind of a adifferent concept, and people don't really
(17:56):
think it through.
We've it's a recommendation that we make allthe time, and and I just I I've seen it work,
and I just thought maybe I was getting luckywith these cases because it seemed pretty easy,
but I wasn't sure if there were other caveatsto it that that we weren't picking up on that
we need to know about.
As long as all the parties are agreeable in thein the situation, it shouldn't be an issue.
Yeah.
(18:17):
Yeah.
And most of the time, though, right, the owner,the insured, and the payer are all the same
person.
Mhmm.
You know?
And then there's a beneficiary.
So, I mean, just getting it organized andreally working with a good agent who's willing
to do the servicing work.
Right?
I will tell you that.
Most of the time for this kind of stuff, youcan go directly to the carrier or work with a
(18:41):
good agent.
But I will tell you that a lazy agent, theywill not do it because it is a
noncommissionable event.
So I
would just point that out.
As far as, like, getting the project over thefinish line, sometimes just reaching out to
your old agent, they don't care.
It's not a new policy sale.
So actually working with somebody who has yourinterests and wants to work with you is another
key detail I would add there.
(19:02):
That is a huge, very important point to make.
Because at the end of the day, it's all aboutthe sales and the commission for a lot of
people that are out there.
Yep.
What what do you have to say about peoplehaving that mindset that estate planning and
insurance planning is only for the rich?
-Well, I think that maybe you've never beenclose enough to somebody having an insurance
(19:23):
filing a claim, you know, because that's justnot it's just not the case, right?
Like, when you talk about disability incomeinsurance, you might be able to say that or
have that's not gonna happen to me attitude orit's only for the rich unless you've seen how
it can demolish somebody's financial plan andhave them pull from all their investable assets
and train their four zero one k.
(19:44):
If you have somebody that is in middle classAmerica that has a life insurance policy, that
can literally be the difference between settingtheir family on track for a positive future,
sending kids to college.
So to say to say insurance is just for the richis, you know, I would say a a lot of ignorance
(20:04):
there.
Like, if it's coming from an adviser, I need totalk to you.
Like, I need to have a conversation.
If it's coming from people that just don'tunderstand, I would say, understand that
there's different types of insurance that arefor different levels of wealth.
Sure.
There's types of insurance if you're worth over$10,000,000 that maybe those people would have
that you don't necessarily need.
But that doesn't mean that you don't need a,you know, $50.60 dollar a month life insurance
(20:28):
term policy or a disability policy that's 1% ofyour income.
It's probably still a good idea.
Any other thoughts, Peter?
Yeah.
I would say it's a lot more affordable than youthink.
Most people, they wish they purchased more at ayounger age.
Yeah.
And that's coming from seeing thousands offinancial planners implement tens of thousands
(20:49):
of different policies, clients coming to us afew years after.
We may have had our first conversation, andthey didn't think it was important at the time.
And then the life event occurs, and now all ofa sudden, it's very important, And the factors
are not the same.
Their health might not be the same.
(21:09):
Their income might not be the same.
They might have started a business, and theymight not have the income to qualify for some
of these policies or anything to show.
They're excited.
They've got a business plan, but they don'thave anything to show for it yet.
So really just planning ahead and just yeah.
I mean, there's so much that goes into it.
And so just working with a professional, that'sall I can really mention.
(21:31):
What about those business owners?
Because a lot of the people that we work withare now kind of they're thinking through this,
you know, the next phase of their life.
What is what is the what is the new version ofme gonna look like?
And we do have a lot of people that think aboutstarting new businesses or taking on a
different venture or whatever, leaving theirold careers behind and starting afresh starting
starting fresh.
(21:53):
Are there any particular things they need to bethinking about from a planning perspective,
insurance perspective?
Like, what what about business owners?
Business owners specifically.
The hardest one to qualify would be disabilityincome insurance.
And that is something that there is aworkaround to it in some scenarios for some
insurance carriers.
And there's really only five or six that doindividual long term disability.
(22:17):
But there's a few that they don't checkfinancials for under a certain dollar amount.
And for most carriers, it's either 6,000.
There's one I know of that does up to 10,000 ifyou're a white coat, right, if you're a doctor.
But like we were kind of talking about earlier,$6 isn't that much coverage.
Right?
So if you're leaving a nice w two job with fullbenefits and things like that, definitely
(22:41):
something to think about.
And with that, because you're paying for it,not your employer, those premiums are going to
be different as well too.
So just budgeting that in, thinking about it,and being conscious of it.
Because I would also say, like, not having anyis not a good mindset either.
It is something to definitely budget for and tothink about.
Yeah.
Anything to add, Brock?
(23:02):
No.
I mean, I think that I think he covered itpretty well, to be honest with you.
Yeah.
I have two last questions before I let you guysgo back on to your busy days, but the the this
one is a little bit of a wild card.
But we we talked a little bit earlier about,you know, the the the work you guys do in
educating the public and advisers likeourselves.
And and and you you do so in in a way that's,you know, entertaining.
(23:28):
It's fresh.
It's funny, but it gets the point across.
Mhmm.
But we also see all this other BS that's outthere on TikTok and, like, I couldn't tell you
how many times I've had people send me links tothis, that, and the other and using insurance
as a retirement plan.
And Yeah.
Yeah.
Or my my universal life insurance policy as aas a bank account or whatever it is.
(23:50):
Like, help me drive this message home.
Because I think some people need to hear itfrom you guys because you're in this world.
Like, we should not be taking that advice.
Right?
Right.
Now first of all, put your common senseantennas up.
Right?
Like, if someone seems like they're pitching aproduct to be the end all be all and the answer
to everything, get out of your chair and run.
(24:11):
If you're on TikTok if you're on TikTok, keepscrolling.
Any because here's the thing.
If people are not calling and I think this is,a very important thing to say.
If people are calling something calling aproduct something different from what it is.
So you're calling a life insurance product abank account that's supercharged in a or a Roth
(24:33):
IRA on steroids that's not a Roth IRA.
You have a problem.
And if you're already in the conversation withthem and you're having that, the thing that I
would say is ask them how they're gonna getpaid or comment or or message them.
Like, if you're that curious, ask them what theincentives are behind the scenes because I can
(24:53):
almost guarantee you it's not what it's gonnabe on the surface.
And if they're not a financial planner, they'renot talking about comprehensive financial
planning, they're not talking about everythingthat goes into it, and they're just pitching a
product and that's all they seem to ever talkabout, they're they're they don't have your
best interest in mind.
They're thinking about how much money they'regonna make from selling you something.
(25:13):
Yeah.
I'll add to that.
I'll say that there's one school where it isall the commission sales breath, the MLM.
If you have any pressure within an insurancesale, it's not good.
Okay?
Mhmm.
I will say that the one thing that's sneaky isthere are some professionals who also have
their CFP.
(25:34):
They work for a big Fortune 500 company, andthey're gonna seem like they're doing holistic
financial planning.
They're gonna have a planning software, but atthe end, they're still gonna show you a big
whole life policy that you don't need.
So really just having your guard up, beingsmart about it.
If we were talking about Dave Ramsey's babysteps, permanent life insurance would be step
(25:54):
number seven or, you know, eight or nine, youknow, of the seven baby steps.
It's not something that the normal person needsto necessarily be purchasing.
It has its place.
But, yeah, the predatory sales around it isdefinitely something to watch out for, and most
people, they don't need it.
Do ever notice that these people that aretalking about this stuff are all 20 years old
(26:17):
too?
Oh, How much real world financial planningexperience do you have when, you know, you just
graduated high school two years ago?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Here the the guys that are doing that are thesame guys that you can remember from high
school that were jumping on every littleopportunity to try to make a quick puck
possible.
Like, everybody knows that guy that's never,like, had a steady career job.
(26:41):
They just jumped from thing to thing, thinkingthat this is gonna be the next big thing.
And so, you know, you've got all these, I callthem, like, broccoli headed kids with the big
haircut on the like, the poof haircut and thetank top with the gold chains.
And, you know, a lot of these videos will getas ridiculous, Jamie, as, like, being, like, a
day in the life of an insurance broker.
(27:01):
And the end of it is just, like, them showingtheir car collection.
I can tell you, it is not that interesting.
Alright?
I love what I do, but, like, if you think thatyou're some sort of celebrity from from being
in the insurance world, it's not the case.
So, yeah, the life experience isn't there, andwhat it comes down to is somebody is giving
them a script and having them call people andselling them this stuff and post videos online.
(27:26):
And it's just it's not genuine at all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I couldn't have said it better myself, man.
I I I I next time I ask you the question likethis, you should be less passionate about
it.
Alright.
As soon
as I went with it as soon as I went with it,you almost jumped out of your chair, dude.
I I saw you go it's but I it's it's important.
I mean, that that's that's important messagebecause it's not I say it all the time to our
(27:49):
clients and both on the on the wealthmanagement side and the divorce planning side.
It's like people just but if you're not theydon't teach you this stuff in school.
You guys know this.
And sometimes we people just don't know.
And they're like, oh, this sounds like thisthis sounds like a good opportunity, and it
sound it makes sense the way that they'reexplaining it, and and then they get then they
get deposed in the end is usually what happens.
(28:11):
Yeah.
I I promised I would let you guys go here realsoon, but any questions I didn't ask that I
should have or anything you wanna share withour audience that would be important for them
to know that we didn't cover?
I don't think anything I the one thing I wouldshare with your audience is if you don't
already know this and you're listening to thisshow, Jamie's an awesome guy.
He does great work for clients.
We've known him for many years.
(28:31):
So he's probably not gonna brag on himself, soI'll brag on him for a second.
You can trust his advice.
He's one of the good guys.
So if you're listening to this, know that.
And if you have questions, he's a greatresource.
You should absolutely reach out to him.
I appreciate that.
That was that was very nice.
I will pay you later.
Yeah.
Thanks, guys.
I I really appreciate your time today and forfor sharing this message.
(28:54):
It's an incredibly important one.
We should we should be talking about it more.
This is one of those things that we we don'ttalk about a lot, but we should be definitely
be talking more.
But for those of you that are listening, if youneed to connect with folks like Brock and and
Peter, don't hesitate to reach out.
We're gonna make sure we put, all of theirlinks in the show notes, social media stuff.
Make sure you follow these guys because they'reincredible resources for you.
(29:16):
For those of you that are feeling uncertainabout your station of life and and need some
help on the divorce planning space in thedivorce planning side of things, don't hesitate
to reach out to us at Allegiant DivorceSolutions.
Absolutely happy to help.
We offer free complimentary confidentialconversations with all of you.
So if you if you need help, don't hesitate toreach out.
But thanks again, guys, for your time today.
(29:36):
Appreciate it.
Until next time.
Thanks, Jamie.
Thanks, Jamie.
Welcome back to another episode of broke up notbroken.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Jamie Lima and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions and Secure Split.
Today's guests are Brock Buckles and PeterServallo, cofounders of BC Brokerage, a
nationally licensed life and disabilityinsurance brokerage that's shaking up the way
we think about protection planning.
Specializing in working with business owners,high income earners, and individuals in major
(00:23):
life transitions, Brock and Peter are on amission to just demystify insurance, Whether
it's preserving income, safeguarding your kid'sfuture, or protecting your financial plan
during or after divorce, they make sureinsurance isn't just an afterthought.
It's a tool for long term security and clarity.
This episode is gonna give you practicalanswers, straight talk, and maybe even a new
outlook on the impact that the proper amount ofinsurance can have on your future.
(00:47):
So buckle up, grab a cup of coffee, or yourbeverage of choice.
Let's once again get you personally andfinancially empowered.
Brock and Peter, so good to have you guys withus today.
Good to be here, man.
Thanks for having us.
No.
Of course.
Of course.
And and we've known each other for a while now,so this is gonna be an amazing conversation.
I've been waiting to have you guys on becauseour listeners are going through some stuff.
(01:09):
Yep.
And and one of the biggest afterthoughts that II see in the divorce financial planning space
when helping people navigate divorce and thinkabout their future moving forward is the asset
protection, estate planning piece.
So I'm I'm super super pumped that you guys arehere with us to to shed some light on that.
So and and leading up to our our convo here, Iknow, Peter, not so much, you know, as far as
(01:36):
experience goes in the divorce realm, but Iknow, Brock, you've had some experience with it
in your in your life.
Yeah.
Definitely, man.
I mean, I was pretty young.
I think it was in third grade when my parentsgot divorced.
And so, obviously, I can appreciate kind of thethe how tough that can be and the things that
come along with it.
And, you know, from the financial perspective,you don't necessarily understand everything
(01:57):
that's going on when you're when you're thatyoung.
But as I got older, I started to kind ofunderstand some different things about it and
how it can affect people's lives.
And so very familiar with the topic and, yeah,happy to talk about it, man.
Yeah, man.
So so let's just start with the basics.
Right?
And we know because we're in this world, we'vebeen living it and breathing it for so many
(02:18):
years now, but our a lot of our listeners don'treally understand how insurance ties in,
especially around divorce.
So maybe talk a little bit about that and whatyou've seen in your in your world.
Yeah.
You want this one, Peter?
You want me to take this one?
Yeah.
I mean, I'm happy to take it.
I mean, one of the largest thing is justorganization and looking at things from a
claims perspective.
(02:39):
Right?
If something were to happen, who is liable?
Who needs to pay for it?
What proportions might need to be split.
So, I mean, every day we're reviewing policiesand definitely making changes to current ones,
implementing new coverage.
Definitely a whole lot of different optionsthere.
(03:00):
Yeah.
And I would would say to piggyback off of thattoo, one of the biggest ones is, obviously, if
you're married and then you're not married anylonger, you might not want the person that you
chose not to be married to anymore to receive alife insurance benefit or something like that.
Right?
So making sure you have your beneficiaries inline is is a is a huge thing.
What do mean?
You if you pass away, you don't want your exwife to get to get the money?
(03:23):
Whether her her her her pool boy Yeah.
Her and the pool boy.
That happens all the time.
Right?
I mean, we we were joking about it, but ithappens all the time.
I mean, I think about when you just said that,I think about a case that I was I was working
on when I was back at the big name firm I Icame from years ago.
And even before I left, I think we were, like,three years into probate because the wrong
(03:44):
beneficiaries were listed on an account.
There weren't there weren't beneficiarieslisted on another policy.
It was an absolute disaster.
So just that tiny little administrative task ofmaking sure that the right beneficiaries are in
place can save your loved ones so manyheadaches later on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A 100%.
I mean, what what could you think of that wouldbe worse than, like, if something were to
(04:06):
happen to you, other parts of the family or thekids being involved of things just not being
set up appropriately?
So that's why, you know, to what you do, Jamie,it's always important to stop, take a pause,
and understand, alright.
Beyond the emotional side, there's a financialaspect to this.
And also obviously, tensions are high a lot oftimes, but you have to calm yourself down and
(04:28):
and be like, okay.
But, logically, what are the steps that we haveto work through as we're going through this?
Absolutely.
Can you talk a little bit about how disabilityinsurance is factored into?
Because that's a big one that we see peoplemiss all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think so, man.
So in terms of how it's related to divorce orjust what it is?
Or Yeah.
I mean, like, in I'm I'm thinking about onecase that we have right now where this actually
(04:49):
came up and and the we're actually mediating acase right now.
And the disability that this gentleman has inplace right now is is not gonna cover him.
There's there's not a lot of income coverage.
Right?
So if he gets disabled and he's unable to work,I I I can't remember the exact percentage off
the top my head, but it wasn't a lot.
So we're certainly wasn't gonna cover theexpenses of two households, his his now alimony
(05:13):
and child support.
So so having disability in place is alsoprobably just as important as life insurance
because it's not always about you being sixfeet under.
Yeah.
Absolute well, I and actually, Jamie, that's agood point.
There's actually a much a much larger chance ofyou becoming disabled than there is of you
passing away.
Right?
I mean, the insurance world, we call thatmortality versus morbidity.
(05:35):
But, you know, one in four of today's 20 yearolds, right, in their working career will be
disabled at some point.
We know that statistically.
Doesn't mean forever.
Doesn't mean you can't work at all.
It just means at some point, you can't work inthe way that you are right now.
Okay?
So that's that's the fact number one.
Number two, a lot of people don't actuallyunderstand the way that their disability
(05:56):
benefits work.
Right?
So I would imagine a lot of people that arelistening to this podcast, maybe they're
working somewhere.
They have a fifty or sixty percent groupdisability through work.
Right?
And you're thinking maybe to yourself, well, II could probably get by on that.
Right?
Fifty or sixty percent, if you're a diligentsaver, maybe you can.
Right?
But if your employer pays for it, now you needto know that that benefit is taxable coming to
(06:18):
you.
So you're not getting 60%.
You might be getting closer to 40 to 45%.
So that's the baseline.
Right?
And if you're divorced and there's alimony andyou're paying for things, you need to know that
first and foremost, and then that's when youcan start thinking about getting a private
policy to kinda help with that.
So line up the expenses, know if something whatif something were to happen, how much money you
(06:40):
actually have coming in, and then kind of workbackwards.
Yeah.
I'm I'm just thinking about this case rightnow.
I mean, he's in he's gonna be in a world ofhurt if he if if something happens to him.
And and it's you know, most of us these daysare not digging ditches.
Right?
Let's just face it.
Like, we're not you know, like, my dad is stilldigging ditches at the age of 72.
God bless him.
But for dudes like us, we're behind a keyboard.
(07:02):
But that doesn't mean that we there was onetime when I actually got hurt working around
the house, and I couldn't work for three monthsbecause I couldn't type with my right hand.
So just having that disability insurance was agame changer.
And and, like, I'm thinking through this guyright now, and it's probably a call I have to
make after this conversation.
Like, you really need to think about thisbecause if something goes awry, even though
(07:23):
you're, you know, an IT person, you could stillyou could still have have a problem here.
I wanna I wanna go back to the the the the someof this too, or maybe you can talk a little bit
about this.
One of the things we try to do in many casesthat we work on is to protect child support and
alimony.
And we're we're so what have you seen workswell in that respect?
(07:45):
Because this is attorneys missed this, and I'mnot trying to harp on attorneys, but they
missed this all the time.
And then when I review marital settlementagreements and the documents that people are
getting ready to sign off on, whether they'regonna impact them for the rest of their lives
effectively, insurance is something that theymiss all the time to protect those income
payments.
So, like, what do you what do you like, from atactical perspective, what would you recommend?
(08:09):
Yeah.
I think at the end of the day, one thing Iwould say above all else is that you cannot
rely on workplace benefits.
Most people, they think they're covered throughwork.
Those benefits can change.
I would say when it comes to anything arounddivorce related, we are usually seeing private
policies get implemented that are purchasedspecifically for that reason.
(08:31):
You know, like depending on children's age,family goals, expectations, things like that,
you know, we're building term ladders orpolicies built specifically around college
funding or something around the house or themortgage or something like that.
Right?
Just how you alluded to earlier on thedisability income, building policies that the
amount is sufficient.
(08:53):
Like Brock pointed out, there are a lot ofcaveats with workplace benefit policies.
So even at that 60% benefit, right, it's 60% ofwhat?
Right?
Sometimes it's only of base salary.
So for our sales professionals or those who arecommission based, it might not even cover any
of that.
Most of the time too, workplace benefits, thedisability policies, they're capped at either 5
(09:16):
or $10,000.
For most families, right, I mean, $10,000 getsevaporated in an instant when it comes to a
household monthly budget.
Right?
So really rightsizing the coverage, and I can'tsay it enough because everyone wants to talk
about insurance, and they look at it from justpremium, premium, premium.
And I completely get that.
(09:36):
And we can always find ways to make policiescheaper, but I really want to frame it with
anybody.
Like, if a claim were to happen, we want to bemade whole.
Insurance is not there to make you rich.
And it's also if something were to happen, youwant it to pay, and you want to be made whole
and be replaced.
(09:57):
So just thinking about from a claimsperspective.
And whether this is on a car, it's on a lifeinsurance policy, it's a disability policy,
whatever it might be, just shifting it to, hey,if something were to happen because bad things
happen to good people, what do we want to havehappen?
How much would it be?
And really just thinking about it holistically.
And you I mean, you brought up so manydifferent things.
(10:18):
And and it's not just the life insurance,disability insurance too.
There's other insurances that are in play.
Like, you mentioned the auto and homeowners andall that.
Like, all of those different policies need tobe revisited.
Yep.
Yep.
And you guys work with and I I'm I'm I love thework that you guys do with financial advisers
in this space because and it's it's like akudos and kudos to the two of you for doing
(10:42):
this because I am in all a lot of the sameforums you're in, and you guys know that
there's a lot of bad advice in this space beingtossed around.
Yep.
And there's a lot of bad advice on TikTokinsurance.
And, Brock, like, the some of the stuff thatyou come up with on these videos is amazing.
I love it.
Thanks, man.
It's it's so good.
(11:03):
It's so good.
So if you're listening and you are you're notfollowing these guys in social media, you need
to because if you're gonna get not only gonnaget educated, but you're gonna laugh your ass
off.
But talk to me about, like, the we're all cutfrom the same cloth from a financial planning
perspective.
So so from a financial planning perspective,where does insurance fit in, especially when it
relating to the like, if a client comes to youand they're tell they tell you, like, I'm
(11:27):
getting a divorce, what are you what are, like,what are you telling them first?
Yeah.
That's a good question.
So I would say, first of all, like, let's lookat everything.
Right?
Bring me what insurance think, first of all, wehave to list out all the insurance policies.
So what do you know that you have?
Did you take care of the finances?
Right?
Like, let's start there because maybe you're onthe other end of it and your significant other
(11:50):
or your spouse was the one that kinda paideverything.
And if you ask somebody, do you have anumbrella policy?
They might not even know what an umbrellapolicy is, let alone if they have one.
Right?
So I would say start with figuring out what youhave and then break it down and go to somebody
like you, Jamie, who works with someone likeus, and let's go through those policies.
(12:12):
Who's on the policies?
How the coverages are listed?
Who the beneficiaries are?
And then say, okay.
How are we splitting this up?
Because a lot of times, like, this is your car.
This is my car.
Right now, those two cars are bundled under oneinsurance policy, but they're not gonna be
forever.
And so I think kind of just taking it one at atime and going through those insurance policies
(12:35):
and don't rely on yourself too much to do it.
I would say find a good person to work with,but go through them individually and see how
they're set up and go through all the types ofcoverage that you have and break them down and
and come up with an action plan of how you needto kind of strategically split away from what
you're doing with your former significantother.
(12:57):
And this is not just a message message to theclient.
Right?
This is also a message to financial advisersthat are listening to the to you say this.
Right?
Because Absolutely.
I I I see it time and time again.
Financial advisers just don't know.
For whatever reason, they don't understand howto handle this type of stuff.
And and I would even before I started gettinginto this niche, so to speak, over the course
(13:17):
of the last few years, I thought I had it allhandled.
Then I get into it.
I'm like, wow.
There's a lot more here than I thought.
Yep.
So I appreciate the message.
So if you're listening and you're a financialadviser and you're here on LinkedIn with us
because this maybe will pop pull this clip,maybe listen to what Brock's saying because
it's it's it's, incredibly important.
Anything to add, Peter?
Yeah.
I would add that a lot of these contracts arepretty adjustable.
(13:41):
There's an owner.
There's an insured.
There's a payer.
And there's a beneficiary.
That's how it is on almost all insurancecontracts, right?
One big thing we're talking about beneficiariesa lot.
How about the payer?
Making sure that bank account gets updated.
I can't tell you how many people they letpolicies lapse, and then their health isn't the
(14:03):
same, and then they're uninsurable, or thenthey're not meeting the obligations of a
contract or their divorce agreement.
And now they need to go get a new insurancepolicy, and the premiums are even higher.
You know, being able to change any of thosefour positions in an insurance contract and
just monitoring them is important.
Another one I would just add kinda with any ofthe servicing stuff, what Brock said, just see
(14:26):
what you have.
Get your logins.
Right?
That sounds insane.
Right?
But most people, they have their Chase Bankaccount login.
They have their Netflix.
Right?
They have whatever else, their Amazon Prime.
But they have no clue where their autoinsurance policy is.
Right?
Just like a kind of a good, like, justhousekeeping thing.
Like, add the your auto insurance to your AppleWallet.
(14:49):
Right?
Most states, they're gonna start moving to, youknow, digital driver's license too.
Really just staying organized.
That's really the biggest mantra I can say withanything insurance related.
Because most households, they have probablyabout a dozen policies.
They have a couple cars, umbrella, a home,vacation home, umbrella, life insurance policy
(15:10):
one, life insurance policy two, spouse'spolicy, DI, something that Uncle Eddie sold
them that they have no clue what it is, andeverything in between.
So just getting organized, getting your logins,and keeping it simple.
You you had mentioned earlier about about thethe the different aspect, like being able to
(15:30):
take over policy or can make changes to thepolicies and so on.
That brought up another question for and eitherone of you can take this.
What we one of some of the advice that we giveto depending on the circumstance is we would
recommend that someone get a in the get in apolicy on the payor.
Right?
If child support and alimony is in play.
(15:51):
How easy is that in real in real life?
Because we recommend it a lot, and I it soundseasy, and I've I mean, I've I've seen it happen
before in in in a lot of cases, but it's a verysmall sample size.
You guys are dealing with a much larger if thelaw of law large numbers with you guys.
So, like, how easy is that for somebody to say,I'm due alimony for the next ten years.
(16:13):
It's a thousand dollars a month.
I wanna cover those dollars on that particularperson's life.
Because, again, to your to your point earlier,Peter, is people do let these things lapse.
You know?
And and I was responsible with my lifeinsurance policy, and I had one in place when I
was paying alimony, but not everybody's thatresponsible.
And they don't make the payment or they changethe beneficiary after a couple years because
(16:34):
they think they're gonna be able to get awaywith it.
How easy is that for somebody to to own apolicy with somebody else to protect that
income?
Yeah.
I mean, as far as changing it, it's pretty easyas far as servicing.
I would say one thing, it's a huge tidbit notmany advisers or clients know about it, would
just have be having a third party notice on thepolicy.
(16:54):
So that there's a person even outside of thecontract, like a financial planner, like a
lawyer, you know, who's even outside of theservicing agent of the of the contract.
Right?
You can add a third party notice.
I think that that is a huge value add, and it'ssomething that we see more like family offices
kind of doing when it comes to service workaround insurance policies.
(17:15):
That's what I would say on that one.
But it is pretty easy to change.
The only thing is the owner is the only one whohas the authority to change that kind of stuff.
But is is it easy to start a new policy onsomebody else?
If you have that insurable interest, is iteasy?
I mean, is it easy?
Yes.
The person would need to know that they'regetting insurance on them.
Yeah.
I mean, you can't just be application.
(17:35):
You know? Don't have
Don't have to go to underwriting.
To answer your question directly, Jamie, yeah,you can absolutely do it.
You can have an owner of a policy, a payer of apolicy, and the payers, like, the person that
you wanted to really have it together, like,they're gonna get the notices.
So, yeah, you can absolutely do it and havethem listed.
That's and and it's it's it's kind of a adifferent concept, and people don't really
(17:56):
think it through.
We've it's a recommendation that we make allthe time, and and I just I I've seen it work,
and I just thought maybe I was getting luckywith these cases because it seemed pretty easy,
but I wasn't sure if there were other caveatsto it that that we weren't picking up on that
we need to know about.
As long as all the parties are agreeable in thein the situation, it shouldn't be an issue.
Yeah.
(18:17):
Yeah.
And most of the time, though, right, the owner,the insured, and the payer are all the same
person.
Mhmm.
You know?
And then there's a beneficiary.
So, I mean, just getting it organized andreally working with a good agent who's willing
to do the servicing work.
Right?
I will tell you that.
Most of the time for this kind of stuff, youcan go directly to the carrier or work with a
(18:41):
good agent.
But I will tell you that a lazy agent, theywill not do it because it is a
noncommissionable event.
So I
would just point that out.
As far as, like, getting the project over thefinish line, sometimes just reaching out to
your old agent, they don't care.
It's not a new policy sale.
So actually working with somebody who has yourinterests and wants to work with you is another
key detail I would add there.
(19:02):
That is a huge, very important point to make.
Because at the end of the day, it's all aboutthe sales and the commission for a lot of
people that are out there.
Yep.
What what do you have to say about peoplehaving that mindset that estate planning and
insurance planning is only for the rich?
-Well, I think that maybe you've never beenclose enough to somebody having an insurance
(19:23):
filing a claim, you know, because that's justnot it's just not the case, right?
Like, when you talk about disability incomeinsurance, you might be able to say that or
have that's not gonna happen to me attitude orit's only for the rich unless you've seen how
it can demolish somebody's financial plan andhave them pull from all their investable assets
and train their four zero one k.
(19:44):
If you have somebody that is in middle classAmerica that has a life insurance policy, that
can literally be the difference between settingtheir family on track for a positive future,
sending kids to college.
So to say to say insurance is just for the richis, you know, I would say a a lot of ignorance
(20:04):
there.
Like, if it's coming from an adviser, I need totalk to you.
Like, I need to have a conversation.
If it's coming from people that just don'tunderstand, I would say, understand that
there's different types of insurance that arefor different levels of wealth.
Sure.
There's types of insurance if you're worth over$10,000,000 that maybe those people would have
that you don't necessarily need.
But that doesn't mean that you don't need a,you know, $50.60 dollar a month life insurance
(20:28):
term policy or a disability policy that's 1% ofyour income.
It's probably still a good idea.
Any other thoughts, Peter?
Yeah.
I would say it's a lot more affordable than youthink.
Most people, they wish they purchased more at ayounger age.
Yeah.
And that's coming from seeing thousands offinancial planners implement tens of thousands
(20:49):
of different policies, clients coming to us afew years after.
We may have had our first conversation, andthey didn't think it was important at the time.
And then the life event occurs, and now all ofa sudden, it's very important, And the factors
are not the same.
Their health might not be the same.
(21:09):
Their income might not be the same.
They might have started a business, and theymight not have the income to qualify for some
of these policies or anything to show.
They're excited.
They've got a business plan, but they don'thave anything to show for it yet.
So really just planning ahead and just yeah.
I mean, there's so much that goes into it.
And so just working with a professional, that'sall I can really mention.
(21:31):
What about those business owners?
Because a lot of the people that we work withare now kind of they're thinking through this,
you know, the next phase of their life.
What is what is the what is the new version ofme gonna look like?
And we do have a lot of people that think aboutstarting new businesses or taking on a
different venture or whatever, leaving theirold careers behind and starting afresh starting
starting fresh.
(21:53):
Are there any particular things they need to bethinking about from a planning perspective,
insurance perspective?
Like, what what about business owners?
Business owners specifically.
The hardest one to qualify would be disabilityincome insurance.
And that is something that there is aworkaround to it in some scenarios for some
insurance carriers.
And there's really only five or six that doindividual long term disability.
(22:17):
But there's a few that they don't checkfinancials for under a certain dollar amount.
And for most carriers, it's either 6,000.
There's one I know of that does up to 10,000 ifyou're a white coat, right, if you're a doctor.
But like we were kind of talking about earlier,$6 isn't that much coverage.
Right?
So if you're leaving a nice w two job with fullbenefits and things like that, definitely
(22:41):
something to think about.
And with that, because you're paying for it,not your employer, those premiums are going to
be different as well too.
So just budgeting that in, thinking about it,and being conscious of it.
Because I would also say, like, not having anyis not a good mindset either.
It is something to definitely budget for and tothink about.
Yeah.
Anything to add, Brock?
(23:02):
No.
I mean, I think that I think he covered itpretty well, to be honest with you.
Yeah.
I have two last questions before I let you guysgo back on to your busy days, but the the this
one is a little bit of a wild card.
But we we talked a little bit earlier about,you know, the the the work you guys do in
educating the public and advisers likeourselves.
And and and you you do so in in a way that's,you know, entertaining.
(23:28):
It's fresh.
It's funny, but it gets the point across.
Mhmm.
But we also see all this other BS that's outthere on TikTok and, like, I couldn't tell you
how many times I've had people send me links tothis, that, and the other and using insurance
as a retirement plan.
And Yeah.
Yeah.
Or my my universal life insurance policy as aas a bank account or whatever it is.
(23:50):
Like, help me drive this message home.
Because I think some people need to hear itfrom you guys because you're in this world.
Like, we should not be taking that advice.
Right?
Right.
Now first of all, put your common senseantennas up.
Right?
Like, if someone seems like they're pitching aproduct to be the end all be all and the answer
to everything, get out of your chair and run.
(24:11):
If you're on TikTok if you're on TikTok, keepscrolling.
Any because here's the thing.
If people are not calling and I think this is,a very important thing to say.
If people are calling something calling aproduct something different from what it is.
So you're calling a life insurance product abank account that's supercharged in a or a Roth
(24:33):
IRA on steroids that's not a Roth IRA.
You have a problem.
And if you're already in the conversation withthem and you're having that, the thing that I
would say is ask them how they're gonna getpaid or comment or or message them.
Like, if you're that curious, ask them what theincentives are behind the scenes because I can
(24:53):
almost guarantee you it's not what it's gonnabe on the surface.
And if they're not a financial planner, they'renot talking about comprehensive financial
planning, they're not talking about everythingthat goes into it, and they're just pitching a
product and that's all they seem to ever talkabout, they're they're they don't have your
best interest in mind.
They're thinking about how much money they'regonna make from selling you something.
(25:13):
Yeah.
I'll add to that.
I'll say that there's one school where it isall the commission sales breath, the MLM.
If you have any pressure within an insurancesale, it's not good.
Okay?
Mhmm.
I will say that the one thing that's sneaky isthere are some professionals who also have
their CFP.
(25:34):
They work for a big Fortune 500 company, andthey're gonna seem like they're doing holistic
financial planning.
They're gonna have a planning software, but atthe end, they're still gonna show you a big
whole life policy that you don't need.
So really just having your guard up, beingsmart about it.
If we were talking about Dave Ramsey's babysteps, permanent life insurance would be step
(25:54):
number seven or, you know, eight or nine, youknow, of the seven baby steps.
It's not something that the normal person needsto necessarily be purchasing.
It has its place.
But, yeah, the predatory sales around it isdefinitely something to watch out for, and most
people, they don't need it.
Do ever notice that these people that aretalking about this stuff are all 20 years old
(26:17):
too?
Oh, How much real world financial planningexperience do you have when, you know, you just
graduated high school two years ago?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Here the the guys that are doing that are thesame guys that you can remember from high
school that were jumping on every littleopportunity to try to make a quick puck
possible.
Like, everybody knows that guy that's never,like, had a steady career job.
(26:41):
They just jumped from thing to thing, thinkingthat this is gonna be the next big thing.
And so, you know, you've got all these, I callthem, like, broccoli headed kids with the big
haircut on the like, the poof haircut and thetank top with the gold chains.
And, you know, a lot of these videos will getas ridiculous, Jamie, as, like, being, like, a
day in the life of an insurance broker.
(27:01):
And the end of it is just, like, them showingtheir car collection.
I can tell you, it is not that interesting.
Alright?
I love what I do, but, like, if you think thatyou're some sort of celebrity from from being
in the insurance world, it's not the case.
So, yeah, the life experience isn't there, andwhat it comes down to is somebody is giving
them a script and having them call people andselling them this stuff and post videos online.
(27:26):
And it's just it's not genuine at all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I couldn't have said it better myself, man.
I I I I next time I ask you the question likethis, you should be less passionate about
it.
Alright.
As soon
as I went with it as soon as I went with it,you almost jumped out of your chair, dude.
I I saw you go it's but I it's it's important.
I mean, that that's that's important messagebecause it's not I say it all the time to our
(27:49):
clients and both on the on the wealthmanagement side and the divorce planning side.
It's like people just but if you're not theydon't teach you this stuff in school.
You guys know this.
And sometimes we people just don't know.
And they're like, oh, this sounds like thisthis sounds like a good opportunity, and it
sound it makes sense the way that they'reexplaining it, and and then they get then they
get deposed in the end is usually what happens.
(28:11):
Yeah.
I I promised I would let you guys go here realsoon, but any questions I didn't ask that I
should have or anything you wanna share withour audience that would be important for them
to know that we didn't cover?
I don't think anything I the one thing I wouldshare with your audience is if you don't
already know this and you're listening to thisshow, Jamie's an awesome guy.
He does great work for clients.
We've known him for many years.
(28:31):
So he's probably not gonna brag on himself, soI'll brag on him for a second.
You can trust his advice.
He's one of the good guys.
So if you're listening to this, know that.
And if you have questions, he's a greatresource.
You should absolutely reach out to him.
I appreciate that.
That was that was very nice.
I will pay you later.
Yeah.
Thanks, guys.
I I really appreciate your time today and forfor sharing this message.
(28:54):
It's an incredibly important one.
We should we should be talking about it more.
This is one of those things that we we don'ttalk about a lot, but we should be definitely
be talking more.
But for those of you that are listening, if youneed to connect with folks like Brock and and
Peter, don't hesitate to reach out.
We're gonna make sure we put, all of theirlinks in the show notes, social media stuff.
Make sure you follow these guys because they'reincredible resources for you.
(29:16):
For those of you that are feeling uncertainabout your station of life and and need some
help on the divorce planning space in thedivorce planning side of things, don't hesitate
to reach out to us at Allegiant DivorceSolutions.
Absolutely happy to help.
We offer free complimentary confidentialconversations with all of you.
So if you if you need help, don't hesitate toreach out.
But thanks again, guys, for your time today.
(29:36):
Appreciate it.
Until next time.
Thanks, Jamie.
Thanks, Jamie.
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