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April 16, 2025 28 mins
Jamie M. Lima is joined by Kimber Foster to discuss the intricacies of dealing with narcissism in the context of divorce. They explore how to identify narcissistic behavior and address the financial abuse that can accompany it, emphasizing the role of a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA) in such situations. The episode focuses on post-divorce financial empowerment and emotional recovery, offering strategies for setting boundaries and fostering personal growth. Challenges of cohabitation and creating a healing environment are discussed, along with finding joy in new beginnings.
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Episode Transcript

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(00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of broke up,not broken.

(00:03):
I'm your host, Jamie Lima and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions, where we help
people prepare for, navigate, and recoverfinancially from divorce.
This is your one stop shop for mastering yourlife and your finances throughout the entire
divorce process.
Today, I'm super excited to be hosting KimberFoster as distinguished author, coach, interior
designer, by the way.

(00:24):
My wife is gonna love love this episode, whospecializes in aiding recovery from
narcissistic relationships.
Kimber's personal journey through a thirty yearrelationship with a narcissist equips her with
unique insights and empathy, which she bringsto her workshops and coaching sessions.
Today, we're gonna delve into how Kimber helpsindividuals reclaim their space and life

(00:45):
through transformational strategies.
So grab a cup of coffee or your beverage ofchoice, buckle up, and let's once again get you
financially and personally empowered.
Kimber, it's so great to have you here.
Thank you for having me.
You're welcome.
It's it's good to see you.
And and what as we were preparing for ourconversation here today, and as I was leading
up to, you know, this conversation and gettingready to record with you, putting your bio

(01:08):
together in there in that intro, that wordnarcissist just stood out to me like a glowing
red, like, warning sign, red light type ofthing.
Right?
And so many of the people that we work with,either they do or they claim to be married to
or or divorcing from a narcissist.
So, like, tell me more about that and, like,your experience maybe personally and and maybe

(01:30):
also more importantly, how we should be verycareful about using that word so loosely
sometimes.
I know.
It's crazy.
It's become a mainstream word right now.
I call it the n word.
Yeah.
I I wrote my book six years ago.
I didn't even know what a narcissist was.
And I started doing some research, and myfriend got me into this book.

(01:50):
It was called the verbally abusive Spouse orsomething like that.
And it just kind of catapulted me intounderstanding how I'd gotten to that place in
my life.
And my ex actually had gone through a psycheval where he was diagnosed with a severe
personality disorder.

(02:11):
So, I mean, that's kind of in that same genre,I guess.
But then I started reading about narcissists.
And I actually have a degree in psychology, butI didn't know anything about narcissists back
then.
But now I I'm kind of an expert.
But what I realized, though, is, like, my wholestory was textbook.
My story is not unique.

(02:31):
It's universal.
Unfortunately, there's a lot of narcissists outthere.
It seems to be this word that is thrown arounda lot, though.
Right?
And then I I posted this on social media now.
By the time this airs, you know, maybe sixmonths prior to the airing of this show, And
I'm I'm probably gonna post it more timesbecause it's such a such a like you said, like,

(02:52):
a word people throw around, the n word thatpeople throw around us so much.
But there really is something to be said aboutthat being a personality disorder and not just
your husband or your wife is a jerk.
Right?
Right.
There's a definite difference there.
I mean and even if you question, am I anarcissist?
You're not.
Because narcissists only care about themselves.

(03:13):
They're never wrong.
It's just a whole new level of a lack ofempathy, and just it's all about them all the
time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So tell me more about that.
Like, how do people identify?
Because I know there's I mean, I I I actuallytook a course on this about a year ago.

(03:35):
It's why I have my own you know, I took mynotes and my my own definition of
of
what what I was told the narcissist is, and Ithink I think I understand it.
But for those that are not experts in thatfield or haven't taken training like we have,
like, can you like, what are the warning signs?
What are the things that you'd be looking for?
What are the identifiers?
How how do we know whether again, wow.

(03:55):
I'm actually really dealing with them.
And and more importantly, I'm gonna I don'tlike to layer questions here, but I'm gonna I'm
gonna stack questions if it's okay.
Like, how do we identify it?
And then more importantly, how do we deal withit?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's important.
So when I was writing my book and doing myresearch, I identified 17 emotional

(04:16):
manipulative tactics of a narcissist.
And once you're able to identify, like, they'reprojecting back at you or they're gaslighting
you or they're there's just so many differentcomponents to it that you're able to recognize
those key manipulative tactics that they use.

(04:37):
They do it to get whatever they can.
They go to any length when it's all about them.
Yeah.
I don't
In divorce, we we work with people that arenavigating the financials.
Well, I'll take that back.
We handle the financial nuances of a divorce.
Like, the people that we're helping are arehandling all different aspects of it.

(04:57):
They're handling the finan their financials.
They're handling they're trying to handle theiremotions.
They're trying to probably manage the the theprocess with their kids and make sure the kids
go through this exercise without being youknow, having too much damage to them and so on.
So this is we have to layer in some financialshere because this is also a financial show in
some respects.
How is how did, like, dealing with these typesof people impact the financials of divorce?

(05:22):
And, I guess, how do you protect yourself ofmaking, like, bad decisions when you're dealing
with them?
Yeah.
Well, with a narcissist, one of the tacticsthat they use is alienation.
In my divorce, my ex tried to alienate me fromthe financials.
You know, he handled all the financials duringour divorce.
So in hindsight, I wish I had been moreinvolved with our finances.

(05:47):
But going through the divorce, he alienated me,tried to cut all financials off, hid money.
It just goes on and on about the lengths that anarcissist will go to to it's their money.
It's not your money.
You know?
Even though we were married thirty years andit's a no fault state, everything's divided in

(06:07):
half, he wanted to give me zero.
It was his money, his house, his home, hischildren.
So they go to any lengths to keep that awayfrom their spouse.
That's That's sad.
In my in my opinion, that's financial abuse.
Yeah.
And, you know, in a lot of it going through thedivorce process, he used financial or a lack

(06:31):
thereof as a way to keep me in the marriage.
You know, he said, if you ever leave, I willleave you with nothing.
I will destroy you.
I will take the children from you.
You know, in hindsight, now I know that hecouldn't do that.
You know, the laws are there to protect us, butthey will go at any lengths, like, to hide
money and just con it's a controlling issue.

(06:55):
They're all about control.
Yeah.
And we we see this happen time and time again,and and the listeners that have listened and
subscribed and and follow us across socialmedia and here at the podcast hear me say this
all the time.
We work with 95% of the people we work with arewomen.
Women that were in your shoes and going throughthat same experience, and and this is not by
design, Kimber.

(07:16):
This is not by design.
We we should we don't set out to just work withwomen.
Yeah.
But but what I found is is that when it comesto the financial stuff and and and women that
are have been in your shoes and and and aregoing through that experience right now, they
they almost like, they they know they know whatthey don't know.
And there's and they're they're wiser to thatthan us as men in many ways, and they they're

(07:41):
more apt to reach out for help.
Mhmm.
So so I'm I'm super appreciative of you beingable to share this with us because most of the
women that are listening right now probably insome form or fashion have have going through
this similar experience.
And dudes, if you're out there and you're goingthrough this yourselves, you do not need to
hesitate in reaching out for the help.
We do not this is not a time for John Waynesyndrome.

(08:04):
Yeah.
Definitely not.
Am I am I right?
Yeah.
I mean, the first thing I did when I was goingthrough the divorce process is I hired a CDFA,
a certified divorce financial analyst.
That's awesome.
I mean, that was commercial.
Thank you for the commercial.
But, really, I mean, it she really helped methrough the whole process of, you know, how

(08:25):
much should I get in child support and inalimony and what my budget is and what kind of
house I could afford on my own.
I mean, she was a wealth of information for me.
It really was very helpful.
Tell me more about that experience because wehave very few people on this show that have
actually worked with someone like ourselves,and it's I wanna hear from your perspective
what that was like.

(08:45):
I know you gave us a little snip snapshot inthere, but maybe walk me through what the
process was look like so other people know whatyour experience was.
No.
She was great.
I found her online.
We immediately hit it off, and she helped me gothrough all the tax returns put together.
Because you know when you're you're getting allyour information together for the attorneys and
you have to talk about what your monthlyexpenses are and you know, I pretty much just

(09:08):
ran the house.
I really didn't know much about retirementfunds and and Social Security and, you know,
just how to plan for my future.
And she was a wealth of information for me.
You know, we went through a whole checklist,and it was really informative and helped me.
Would would you say this and I'm saying thatI'm asking you this selfishly, so I apologize,

(09:31):
listeners.
This is this moment is gonna be all about mehere.
But would would you say it was a cumbersomeexperience, or would you think it was an
experience where you you know you have to doit?
It's not fun gathering all that information.
I recognize that part.
But did you find going through it was inenlightening or is you know, like, it gave you
more gave you some power back and moreimportantly, saved you some money from on the

(09:55):
attorney side of things?
Well, yeah, it was empowerment, definitely.
I mean, like I said, he threatened me to leaveme with nothing.
So, you know, by the time we sit down and we gothrough all the accounts and everything, she's
like, Wendy, you know, it's it's it's it's law.
You have to split it down the middle.
Unfortunately, I had the narcissist ex husbandwho wanted to need to be left with nothing.

(10:20):
So he raked up the attorney fees.
Anything he could fight on, he did.
Any kind of motion he could come up with, hedid.
I actually had two protection orders in place,and he fought both of those too.
So he knew you know, I had been a housewife fora number of years out of the workforce, So it
wouldn't have been as easy for me to make upthose funds.

(10:42):
You know?
Meanwhile, he's a CEO of a big company.
He can make those funds back easily.
Yeah.
I I the reason why I'm asking is because whatwe found historically speaking is is that if we
can we can be there to support you on thefinancial side
Mhmm.
And you let your attorneys or your mediator oryour, you know, your even your divorce coach,
if necessary, you know, help you on themanaging the legal side and the emotions that

(11:07):
go along with it and and getting you throughthe divorce process through the court system
itself, we can often save significant amount ofmonies for you as the client because it's like
any other scenario.
Like, you know, you the specialists are gonnado the work faster, more effectively, more
efficiently, probably will It takes a team.

(11:28):
It takes a team.
And that's where if you've if you listen tosome of their shows, that's where I say all the
time, like, is where you create team you.
And it may seem counterintuitive to hiresomeone like myself along with an attorney and
a divorce coach and your therapist.
And but you need all these people.
This is an investment in your future self.
And if everybody works cohesively together,you're gonna come out on the other side in a

(11:50):
much better place and probably with more moneyin your pocket than had you let your attorney
do it alone.
Would you agree?
Definitely.
Yeah.
I mean, my CDFA didn't charge me hourly like myattorney.
Yeah.
Because anytime you call that attorney, youknow, it's like cha ching.
So
%.
Hundred %.
Yeah.
We do we do all we we we do hourly, but wedon't nickel and dime, and we don't do the

(12:16):
every text message, every phone call, everyemail.
We just nine times out of 10, it's like, youknow, not billable, not billable.
But I have to say it was one of the bestdecisions I made was hiring a CDFA.
Amazing.
Well, then she ended
up helping me do my whole portfolio, you know,after the fact, which was great too because my
ex as smart as he was, he wasn't very good withfinances.

(12:37):
And interestingly, you know, he put all oureggs in one basket, and it was really good to
have a financial adviser help me diversify myportfolio.
I appreciate that.
Thank you for the commercial.
We're gonna use this in all of our futureadvertisements report.
And that's in your but you're absolutely right.
I'm also a certified financial planner, and I Iworked for twenty years in this line of work,
most of which I did on, you know, withtraditional retirement planning, investment

(13:01):
management, and so on.
So I just had a conversation with a prospectiveclient about thirty minutes ago, and I told her
exactly what I'm gonna tell you now is our jobis almost only halfway done when the divorce is
settled because now we have to help you withthe transition into your new life.
What what is your budget gonna look like?
And what is your what are your investmentsgonna look like?
And estate plan insurance and so on and soforth.
You know, you have kids involved.

(13:22):
What about their college plan and and all thosethings?
So I I I appreciate this part of ourconversation.
It's And a lot of it for me, like, goingthrough the divorce process with a narcissist
too is is fear, the fear of the unknown, fearof what you can afford, fear of where you're
gonna live, fear of who's gonna take care ofthe children.
And most of that is stems from financials.

(13:42):
Yeah.
So if you can eliminate that and have afinancial adviser, it's really helpful.
What about the rebuilding process?
Right?
Like, what was what was that like for you andand anything you wanna share to to listeners
about, like, what the experience was likerebuilding your life after after the divorce?
Well, you know, it's difficult.
You know, you're with someone for thirty years,and all of a sudden, you find yourself on this

(14:05):
new solo trip.
And it was interesting, you know, having torely on myself and my financials.
And, you know, and also for us, the biggestproblem in conflict was the children.
Who's gonna pay for the kids?
They say, you know, the biggest factor in theadjustment of children in divorce is the level

(14:28):
of conflict between parents, and a lot of thatstems to financials.
So I I did a lot of research.
I even created a divorce checklist to help yourlisteners and and my readers about what to
include when it comes to the children becausethere's so many things that aren't included and
that leads to conflict, and the children areput in the middle as a tug of war with money.

(14:53):
Yeah.
What I I mean, I have some personal experiencesto share there that I know we probably don't
need to get into, which may get me in troubleon the back end, but I I would I would concur.
I mean, I think the the more involved kids arein the financial aspects of divorce and and,
you know, hearing parents talk and all thethings that, you know, like, yeah, your dad's
not gonna pay me.
Your mom's not gonna pay me.

(15:14):
You know, like, whatever it is, like, you,like, you gotta leave that stuff off to the
side because, you know, go go go punch a pillowand cry in your pillow type of thing.
Right?
Yeah.
But it it's it's like with your judgment ofdivorce, though, I say it's the holy grail of
the bible.
You know, you gotta make sure it's included inyour judgment of divorce, especially when
divorcing a narcissist.
Because if it's not in there, they're not gonnapay it.

(15:36):
You know?
So they say, no.
You're not skis aren't included.
Cell phone plan's not included.
No.
All those are financial components that areimportant that you cover beforehand.
Which which is why we tell people all the time,do not sign that darn agreement until we've had
a chance to review it with you.
And and people people I've had cases wherewe're working on the case, working on a case,

(15:57):
and we're all we're helping with negotiationsand strategy and everything.
And then all of sudden, I get a a a an MSA or amarital settlement agreement or divorce decree,
whatever you call it in your state, lands in myinbox.
And I'm like, wait.
What is going on here?
We didn't talk about why we agreeing anything.
Yeah.
Like, we
didn't like and let me have a chance to look atthis first.

(16:19):
And so if that's you know, if if you're gonnahire somebody like us to help you navigate the
the financial aspects of divorce, don't makethat mistake because you may you may live there
or regret it.
Yeah.
Because, know, a lot of times, they'll say itjust falls under the child support canopy of
food, shelter, and clothing, but they don'ttalk about cell phones or marriages or college

(16:39):
or sports equipment or video games.
So it's Card insurance, braces.
Yeah.
All that.
Yeah.
So is important.
Very, very important.
What what are some of the most effectivestrategies that you found as you know, the dust
settles on the divorce, and now you're you'venow left that life behind you.

(17:00):
The you know, the narcissist is in the rearviewmirror to some extent.
I mean, you know, unless if you have kids,you're be dealing with that person all the
time.
Kind of.
But now it's, like, you're you you it's day oneof the newfound you, single person you.
What are some of the most effective strategiesthat you found for helping individuals recover
their own self worth and self, yeah, afterleaving a relationship like that?

(17:23):
Well, yeah, I mean, I talk a lot aboutbelieving in yourself.
You know, a lot of people that have gonethrough a narcissistic relationship find
themselves to be of husk of the person theyonce were.
They leave you feeling less than insecure.
No one's gonna love you.
You'll never make it on your own.
But you have to believe in yourself because itit's it there is a a pot of gold at the end of

(17:50):
the rainbow.
There is a brighter future, especially when youbreak free.
But a lot of that is learning to let go.
That's one of my key things.
Let it go.
Yeah.
And just move forward because you don't wannakeep holding on to those chains that bind you
and keep dragging you down.
You just have to look forward.
And I always say, if what you're not changing,you're choosing.

(18:12):
I love that.
If you're if you're not leaving a toxicrelationship, you're choosing to be in a
relationship that is just gonna continue tobring you down.
So don't hesitate.
Break free.
Break through those fears of the unknown.
You can do it.
Just believe in yourself and trust your gut.
It's so tough, though, when you're you know,you were in a thirty year relationship.

(18:35):
Wow.
Yeah.
Thirty years is not a small amount of time.
So so, like, it was it was there an impetus foryou?
Was there and and how did you how did you, yourown yourself, go from choosing a different
direction when it you've thirty year investedthirty years of your life in this relationship?
Yeah.
I I say I have it I had a light bulb moment,but it wasn't any one thing.

(18:58):
It was accumulation of, let's say, water dropsin a bucket over time.
Just when that last drop hit, I'm like, I'mdone.
But I was living overseas at the time.
I couldn't just leave and pack up my kids andleave.
I didn't have any money of my own.
I didn't have a home base.
It was a big factor.
But I knew I had to do it for myself and for mychildren because I was just teaching my

(19:21):
children what a dysfunctional relationship was.
And my relationship wasn't gonna get any betterat that point.
So I had to make the conscious, know, choice toleave.
Some of it was I want my kids to see what lifeis supposed to look like.
Right.
You know, I didn't wanna keep teaching themwhat a dysfunctional relationship is.
Yeah.
But at the same time, I had to be able to takecare of myself.

(19:45):
And I was I was so depressed and really just Iwas struggling.
You get to that fight or flight.
Mhmm.
You
know?
And then I got to that point.
I was there.
I had to save myself in order to care for mychildren.
Yeah.
I remember I remember there was always thisthought in my head every time I was driving
home from work where it was like, my window ofhappiness is closing.

(20:09):
Oh, that's so sad, I understand.
And and, you know, the kids were there, theywere great.
And, you know, they're they're all good peopleand and, love them very much.
But, you know, when you're in that environmentand you're just not happy and it's like this,
like, death by a thousand cuts scenario likeyou you talked about.
Yeah.
You you like, after a while, you're like, Ijust need some sense of happiness.

(20:30):
So that that was that was my experience,frankly.
One of the one of the things that that I pickedup in, you know, leading up to our our
conversation here today was was the the impactthat boundaries have on on your ability to to
move forward and and have some solid futurerelationships.
So can you talk a little bit about that and,like, how the importance of boundaries and

(20:50):
maybe setting them, you know, futurerelationships?
Yeah.
Well, I that is something I struggled with, andI I recognize that as one of my key elements
into the divorce process was I was a peoplepleaser.
I always was.
So I did whatever anybody wanted to make sureeverybody was happy and didn't wanna step on

(21:11):
any eggshells or ruffle the feathers because Iwas always afraid of his wrath and how it was
gonna affect everybody.
But in hindsight, I realized that I neglectedto set those boundaries from the start.
And then, you know, and every time we would getpushed back a little more and pushed back a
little more.
So, you know, that was a big, big part of thethe my struggle there.

(21:34):
But, Angela, how did that impact you movingforward with future relationships?
You know, it's it's a it's a process.
It's you know?
We have to take little steps, step by step, andstick up for ourselves and and take ownership
of who we are and who we know we can be.
Yeah.
One of the, I I know you also talk aboutenvironment and how that can impact your

(21:57):
healing and your ability to move on and and soon.
And as you can tell by my interior designskills, we spend a lot of time at HomeGoods.
I'm not kidding.
I do too.
I love that story.
Oh, well, you and my wife will hit it off.
And when she listens to this, we'll give her alittle shout out.
Love you, Dawn.
She listens to every single one of theseepisodes.
She must be so tired of hearing it at the myvoice at this point.

(22:17):
But environment really does impact your abilityto heal and move on and and kinda have that zen
like experience that we're looking for.
Right?
I mean so Yeah.
As you know, is is that more about, like,building an environment for the kids?
Is this environment for you?
Is this environment for everybody?
Like, talk to me more about that because I amnot an interior designer.

(22:40):
If you came to my house and I was a bachelor,we I would be probably having this conversation
with you on, like, a milk crate or a from abean bag or something.
I almost called my company divorce daddecorator.
I actually think they're
good.
Very good.
Because we dudes, we need help.
Let's just let's just let's just put that outthere.
We we need some major help, especially.

(23:01):
So I only know one person who enjoys going toHobby Lobby who's a male.
I will tell you that.
But we spend a lot of time in Hobby Lobby andHomeGoods and TJ Maxx and all the all the all
places.
But, anyway, I digress.
But so, like, talk to me a little more aboutthe environment and and how how that can impact
your your well-being, your ability to heal asas you move on.

(23:21):
Well, you know, I just our divorce process wasvery difficult.
He wouldn't leave the house for a year, so weare both in the same house.
And it was like war of the roses.
Hence, that's how I came up with year ofthorns, my name of God.
So no one dies in the end, but I don't wannayou know, the the end the punch line there, but
it was very difficult.
So then we tried bird nesting.

(23:42):
It was just it was awful.
I mean, it literally was a year of hell, and Ireally didn't know if I could survive.
I mean, there's days where I just thought Icouldn't do one more day of this.
Yeah.
But then once I the divorce became final, Idecided to seek joy.
What brings me joy?
So I started working in flower shops.
I started doing my decorating.

(24:02):
And once you start doing those things thatbring you joy, it really adds to your future,
your finances.
It just seems to all come together.
But I was stifled for so long and controlled,and I wasn't able to seek that.
So you just, know, take baby steps, Right?
I mean, like, you can't
Oh, yeah.

(24:23):
Do everything all at once.
And, I mean, I I I feel the same way.
I mean, I went you probably wouldn't know aboutlooking at me, but I used to run 50 to 70 miles
a week, and I used to be a pretty good runnerand and do all those things.
And I'm just now getting back to it, you know,seven years after my divorce because it just
took such a toll on me physically andemotionally and everything else where, like, I

(24:45):
didn't even some days, I didn't even have the,you know, the strength to get I had to work,
and we built two businesses.
And, you know, we've Mhmm.
We've,
you know, actually built three businesses, mywife and I, over the court you know, my now
wife, Dawn, and I, over the last few years.
And it's just it took everything out of you tobe able to do that.
So I'm just now, even seven years after thefact, getting to the point where I'm like, wow.
I can actually go out and run, you know, 10miles and not feel terrible.

(25:08):
So it's but it takes a while.
Right?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, for me, it's been a little over sixyears.
And I can't say I was better the next day.
No.
I mean, it it's a process.
That's the that's the message.
Right?
I mean, people so many people are going throughthis, and they feel like and I can I can I I
can empathize?
I can sympathize with a lot of people that arelistening because when you're in the throes of

(25:28):
it I mean, I had a countdown on my phone.
I was counting down the days to how long I wasno longer gonna have to pay alimony.
Mhmm.
Right?
Not that she didn't deserve it.
Not that the you know, and and people thatreceive or pay have to pay alimony, they're not
rightfully deserving of receiving it or payingit.
It was just like, this feels like it's nevergoing to end.

(25:51):
And I wanted to give myself, like, it's notit's no longer nine hundred days.
It's now eight hundred days, and now it's sevenhundred days.
And, you know, like, you just feel like you'remaking some progress towards something.
And and that's the I think the message in thissegment of our conversation here today is
nothing's gonna happen overnight.
You just have to keep swimming.
Yes.
Just keep swimming.
That's a really good one.

(26:12):
Right.
And believe believe in yourself and trust yourgut.
%.
Hundred %.
Well, like, this this is what I would call the,carte blanche segment of our conversation here
today.
Is there anything I know you'd mentioned thechecklist, we can talk a little bit about that.
But is there anything else I maybe I questionsI should have asked or any message you wanna
share to listeners that I failed to bring up inour conversation today?

(26:34):
Well, when we're dealing with a narcissist in adivorce, like I said, when you're not changing
your choosing and don't let fear be a catalystfor keeping you in a toxic relationship,
especially one if you're being abused verballyand physically.
It's not gonna get better, and it's not goodfor the kids for them to see that and see what
a dysfunctional relationship is.

(26:56):
So, you know, believe in yourself.
Sometimes you gotta push through thoseboundaries in your comfort zone and take those
little baby steps to break free.
But once you do, you'll be in a better place.
Yeah.
And then I'm I'm gonna offer this to yourlisteners as as well.
So they'll get a free copy if they click on thelink we'll provide.

(27:17):
They can get a free copy of my divorcechecklist, which is a really good itemized list
of what you need to include in that judgment ofdivorce that a lot of the typical divorce
judgments don't include.
We should we should get a copy of that to allof our clients as they, close their cases.
Yes.
You should.
Oh, we'll talk about that offline.
But, I appreciate so much for the greatconversation today.

(27:39):
I was a little nervous about bringing up the nword, like you mentioned, because I wasn't sure
where we're gonna be able to take that or maybewhat our listeners would glean from that
conversation.
But I think it's, important to bring up, andand, you know, we have to certainly be careful
about how loosely we're using using that word.
And and I really appreciate you, Kimber, forsharing your profound insights and empowering
strategies with us today.

(28:00):
For those that are looking to learn more aboutKimber's work or to join her acclaimed
workshops, visit our website, yearofthorns.com.
And remember, if you're navigating your ownchallenges and need support on the financial
side of your divorce, Allegiant DivorceSolutions is here to help.
We can you can visit our website atallegiantds.com to get expert advice and book a
call with us, complimentary and confidentialconversations.

(28:21):
We have thirty minute calls scheduled all daylong with people just like you who need the
help.
Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast formore inspiring stories and practical advice.
And until next time, stay strong and empoweredon your journey to recovery.
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