July 16, 2025 • 29 mins
Jamie M. Lima and Amy Adler explore the intricacies of career transitions and challenges faced post-divorce. They discuss overcoming fear and the steps to re-enter the workforce, emphasizing the importance of leveraging volunteerism and networking strategies. The episode delves into optimizing LinkedIn profiles and addressing employment gaps, while also building a professional social media presence. Tips on maintaining confidence and avoiding job search scams are shared, along with strategies to build momentum and courage when starting over. The discussion wraps up with insights on crafting specific job search pitches, offering listeners valuable resources and closing remarks.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of Broke Up NotBroken.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Jamie Lima, and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions, where we help
people prepare for, navigate, and recoverfinancially from divorce.
This podcast is your one stop shop formastering your life and your finances
throughout the entire divorce process.
In today's episode, we're gonna be sharing sometime with Amy Adler, who is the president of
(00:22):
five strengths career transition experts and arecognized authority in executive resume
writing and career portfolio development.
With multiple industry certifications,including certified master resume writer,
certified executive resume master, andnationally certified online profile expert, Amy
has helped countless professionals redefinetheir careers with confidence.
(00:43):
In this episode, we're gonna talk about howcareer transitions, whether necessary,
strategic, or overdue, can become a powerfulpart of post divorce reinvention.
From rewriting your resume to reconnecting withyour network, Amy is gonna share some tips and
tricks and some tools and the mindset shiftsthat can help you move forward professionally
and financially after a major life change.
(01:04):
So welcome aboard, Amy.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
I think this is gonna be an amazingconversation.
I'm so happy to have you here with us.
Thank you so much for inviting me today.
I'm so glad to be here.
Yeah.
Of course.
A lot of the people that we work with are kindof in in I know you probably deal with them in
your in your world there or, like, on the endof a divorce or trying to recover from a
(01:26):
divorce and try to figure out what the nextbest step is for them career wise.
So you must come across this a lot.
It's true.
I think people come from well, they come fromall different sorts of situations, but I think
a big piece of it is when there's been a lifechange and something has happened or some
financial situation has brought them to thepoint where they need to get a different job or
(01:48):
a new job or maybe the first job they've heldin a long time after raising a family.
These things happen with surprising frequencyalongside sort of the more traditional job
searches.
But it's it's always a surprise to me that theyare surprised that they haven't, as I like to
say, planted the tree before they need theshade, that they haven't been thinking about
these things long in advance.
(02:10):
And all of a sudden, they are presented with asituation that they now have to deal with in
terms of their career or their career change.
Yeah.
And a lot of the people that we work with, I'lljust I'll just kinda share with you the
demographic and a lot of the demographic of thefolks that are listening to us today.
We have a lot of folks that are, you know, stayat home moms and decided that they were gonna
sacrifice their own career to stay at home totake care of the family and and and keep that
(02:32):
the family unit together.
And, you know, that and that may be five years,ten years, twenty five years.
I mean, it so we work with a lot of people thathave been doing that work for a long, long
time, and they've sacrificed their career to beable to do that and and help their significant
other, you know, in his or her career.
So so what do you have to say to those peoplethat are that are experiencing that?
(02:54):
And now they're thinking like, I've gotta figfigure out how to get back into the workforce.
What are some of the first things you wouldtell somebody that shared that experience with
you?
I would say the first thing is tone down thefear that comes with this.
Because inevitably, this is going to be very,very scary for somebody who's been out of the
workforce for some time.
I was just talking with somebody this week, thehusband, actually, who's been raising the
(03:18):
toddlers for the last handful of years, and nowhe's ready to do something for himself that is
is, you know, sort of professionally oriented.
So it's not just the moms.
I will I will say for sure, can be the dadstoo.
And to to get past that initial sort of shellshock of I have to now go do something very,
(03:42):
very different from what I've been doing beforecan start with some pretty simple and frankly
free explorations and maybe only in in in termsof of investment in terms of time, but they
certainly don't cost anything to to get thisnew sort of plan in place.
(04:03):
And the first thing I advise people to do is tolook at their favorite job search sites.
So, of course, LinkedIn is a big one.
Indeed is a a really good one for this process.
And instead of saying, you know what?
I want to be a, fill in the blank, whatever itis, do a search on things that they like to do.
(04:26):
So things they're good at.
So a stay at home parent certainly is dealingwith budgeting and purchasing and managing
perhaps, I won't say a staff necessarily, butsort of all the stakeholders, maybe the kids'
teachers and their health care teams and andall those kinds of things.
And these can be proxies, if you will, for thekind of work that happens in in a corporate
(04:51):
environment.
So some piece of this is what people shouldsearch for just to see what these jobs look
like.
What what jobs use these skills?
What can they search for?
Or what can they find when they're searchingthat feels like stuff they wanna do every day?
So so, basically, what you're saying is takesome of the the the unpaid experiences that
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you've had and try to find that overlap.
No doubt.
And and the same is true, by the way, forvolunteerism.
So somebody who has been out in the communityor working at a kid's school or some maybe
religious institution or whatever it is, justbecause it's not paid doesn't mean it's not
real work.
That's pretty interesting.
What about networking?
You talk a lot about networking and the thework that you do in on your website.
(05:36):
So when networking is one of those I I do itbecause I have to.
It is one of my least favorite things to do.
I'm not one of the shaking bay you know,shaking hands and kissing babies type type of
person.
I could never be a politician, but this issomething that people have to get, you know,
get over that.
Right?
Especially if you're reentering the workforce,I would presume.
It's true.
And I and it might be the second most fearprovoking aspect of job search, if the prior
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one was the first.
And but it's a natural extension of what we doevery day.
So meeting somebody at the kid's soccer game,you know, the spouse or the friend or whatever
of of somebody you know, these are very safenetworking.
Let's call them targets because they're alreadyin in your orbit, and asking the people you
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know best makes it even easier.
So let's say your cousin works in a totallydifferent industry compared to you.
You know, you see your one another at familygatherings, and you talk about all sorts of
things, reminisce about being kids or whateveryou're doing, but maybe you never asked.
So tell me, what is it like to be in the suchand such manufacturing industry?
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Or what do you do in the office of whatever atat your, you know, in your state government?
And these are very safe targets to tocentralize your your initial networking
outreach on because these are people whoalready know you and already care about you.
So making this first foray, like, doing it likethis means you're generating practice, and
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you're figuring out how to do this and what tosay.
So then when you want to talk to somebody youdon't know, you can kind of, you know, close
your eyes and jump and know that you have doneall the preparatory work that enables you to
have a meaningful conversation with somebodyyou might not know as well.
It and then I presume at that point, it's justall about the momentum.
Right?
Because isn't that isn't that the story of lifeis once once you take that first step forward
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and you get that momentum behind you, it's it'smuch easier from there, I presume.
Well, I'm sure we all remember the commercialfrom back in the seventies, you know, and they
told two friends and they told two friends.
Right?
It's the same thing.
So if you whether use these using these exactwords or or this sort of spirit of language,
who else should I talk to?
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Who else do you think I could learn from?
They might say, you know what?
You should really talk to my friend, Sally, oryou should really talk to my friend, Joe.
They know a lot about whatever we've beentalking about or the things that you're
interested in.
And now you have quite literally a warmintroduction with somebody who you already
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knows and trusts you to somebody they alreadyknow, know, like, and trust, same same
language, and that connection should berelatively seamless.
So it's not exactly calling up somebody you'venever laid eyes on or never had a connection
to, although it can be.
But these warm connections can be super, supervaluable as people try to expand in different
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ways.
And by the way, everyone likes talking aboutthemselves.
So if you want to speak to somebody about whatthey do and what they know, it is it's almost a
slam dunk because they are likely to want totalk about themselves.
And in the process, think you're brilliantbecause you're asking fabulous conversation
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fabulous questions, delivering engagingconversation, and letting them have their have
their their space to say all the things thatyou want to know about them.
And that's the thing is you have to have goodquestions.
Right?
I mean, that's the the the beauty of of, youknow, that that Pareto's rule.
Right?
If you're if you're talking 20% of the time andand they're talking 80% of the time, you that's
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that's the that's the hook.
Right?
So ask really good questions, really goodfollow-up questions, and keep and keep your
keep your, you know, the that person thatyou're trying to to glean information from
talking.
And I I've seen this even in my own in theinterviews I've done in the past.
When you when they're ask when you're askingreally good questions and that person is
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talking and talking and talking, it it it kindof it puts takes the pressure off of you some,
right, especially in the interview setting, andyou're letting that interviewer talk, talk,
talk.
It's it's almost like a it's almost a slam dunkif you can just keep them talking.
Completely.
And they will love it.
And and that's the best way to learn.
Right?
Because in that eighty twenty view of theworld, you're learning four times as much as
(10:04):
you're speaking.
So Yeah.
Yeah.
And let them let them share with you what theyknow.
And and it's not that you can't speak or youcan ask questions or you can't have some sort
of interaction that's natural for you.
But the point is to learn from them.
That's incredible.
Super helpful so far.
So let's let's I wanna do a deep dive if we canto hear on LinkedIn because you mentioned it
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earlier.
And I I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn and,you know, trying to trying to, you know, market
my the the market our wares, so to speak.
But also, I I get a lot of those, hey.
Can I pick your brain type of messages all thetime?
Because I've been I've been a financial plannerfor twenty plus years now, and there are a lot
of people that are out there just starting offin this world and trying to learn, you know, or
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maybe they launched their own practice, andthey're trying to figure out how to do that and
what the, you know, some of the the figure outwhat all the landmines are that I stepped in so
they can avoid them.
So we get a lot of that outreach.
And so I would presume leveraging LinkedIn canbe a little bit of a challenge, though, if
you're if you're coming out you haven't been inthe workforce for a long time.
So maybe let's talk a little bit about that,how you can maybe polish the the the the
(11:11):
virtual resume, so to speak, for those thosethat are listening that haven't been in the
workforce and how they can position that movingforward.
And, you know, once you get past that and youand you have your LinkedIn profile set up and
everything else, how do you maximize it?
That's kind of a two part question here, andbut that's kinda where I wanna go with this.
So let's talk about the first part here.
Anything you have to share there?
(11:32):
So when somebody let's say they don't have aLinkedIn profile.
They've never signed up.
I I I don't know if that's all that common.
I think there's about a billion users now.
So but let's say there's a lot.
But let's say somebody has a relativelyspeaking empty LinkedIn profile maybe with a
handful of connections or none, and there's nota lot of content to fill that.
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The the very first thing a newish, let's say,user of LinkedIn has to think about is making
sure that there is content in there about themthat is it does two things.
One is it attracts a certain audience.
You might not know who that audience is yetbecause if you're still sort of exploring maybe
(12:15):
a new market or whatever it is, but it has toattract somebody.
So it can't be empty.
It has to have something in there.
And even what you've been doing of late, maybewhere you went to to college or if you did any
university work because we all have affinitysort of emotions about when we went to school
and people like to, you know, talk about thegood old days and that kind of a thing.
Different companies that we might have workedout over time.
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And then fill in the spaces with the just adescription of the stuff that you did when you
were in these in these organizations.
And, again, they don't have to be paid work orreferences to paid work.
They can be work that you did at your kid'sschool or at a local nonprofit or, where
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wherever you volunteer, whatever it might be,because that's still about you and it's still
really interesting.
Eventually, that content is going to shape in amore targeted way.
So it doesn't have to start that way, but theultimate goal is to have the right content in
there that should attract somebody who's doinga search for someone like you and then give
them something interesting to read when they'rethere.
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And that might not come in the first round, butyour LinkedIn can be a little bit of a living
document in that sense.
And you are are allowed to change it every nowand then.
I won't say change it all the time and don'tchange it drastically unless you really, really
mean it because it will confuse people if it'sshifting all the time.
But you're allowed to make inroads into shapingit the way you want it to to feel and read so
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that eventually you are speaking to a veryspecific audience, that kind of audience who
would presumably want to hire you.
So and then so then once you have the LinkedInprofile set up and you've got and you've kind
of, you know, I I have some questions about howwe can, like, handle that gap.
Right?
Because in some in some way some cases, therepeople have worked, you know, in a professional
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setting.
They've they've worked you know, they theygraduated college.
They worked for a few years in a particularindustry or, you know, whatever.
And the next thing you know, you know, theydecide to take time off to to raise a family
and whether that's husband or wife or whatever.
It doesn't really matter, but then there's agap.
Right?
How to in overcoming that gap.
So so, I guess, maybe let's let's talk talkabout that, and then I wanna I wanna talk a
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little bit about how we can actually maximizeLinkedIn to the best of our abilities here.
So how how do we overcome that gap?
So it depends on where the gap is.
If it's x number of years in the past, Iwouldn't worry about it very much.
If it's the most recent handful of years,that's something to address.
So let's say let's let's imagine a person whostarted staying home to raise a family ten
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years ago, and there's nothing professional.
Nothing is sort of paid in the last ten years.
There's so much that somebody can still put inthat space that can address that gap.
During COVID, I think LinkedIn rolled out thisthing called a career gap.
I think everybody was experiencing the thecrunch, and it was really horrible.
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But I think now it seems that best practicesindicate not to use the native career gap
option and to instead use whatever, again,whatever they've been doing.
If you're with your kids, if you're, I don'tknow, managing a household, whatever it might
be, or maybe you are a fitness enthusiast.
(15:35):
Here's what's taking imagine that you're youhave a hobby that takes some proportion of your
day, and now you want to just talk about it assomething you do every day.
So maybe you learned a lot about nutrition andweightlifting, and I don't know what else might
go into that.
Or let's say you're self studying on something.
Maybe you're self studying on I don't know.
(15:58):
Whatever might go into that.
I'm certainly no expert.
But maybe somebody who's changing direction,and let's say they're going from whatever they
used to, let's say, into some new technology,and they wanna talk about all the AI coursework
they've been participating in.
It's it's a perfect opportunity to give youraudience that first impression that you are on
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the cutting edge of whatever is current now andthat you're learning about the best practices
and opportunities that, for example, AI, thatdoesn't have to be that.
It can be something else has to offer.
But that's another way to fill in that spacethat is legitimate, and it's honorable, and
it's real.
And if somebody asks you about it, you couldtalk, you know, talk their ear off about all
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the fun things you've done and learned andpracticed and researched in that arena.
So if let's say you now you've you'vesolidified that and we can at least speak to
the gap that we have.
What are you've already talked about some ofthese tips and tricks, so to speak, but what
are some of the things that people can do to,like, really, like, maximize LinkedIn tools
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like that?
And and what about some other social like,should they be on other social media platforms?
I mean, you mentioned Indeed earlier, which isjob search.
We've got LinkedIn as the biggest one, I think,from a from a networking perspective.
But, like, should they be doing other thingswith other social media accounts like TikTok
and Instagram and those types of things aswell, or is that, like, that's that's more like
the family fun stuff, and they should theyshould we should stay professional and focus on
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LinkedIn.
How does that what does that all look like?
Well, I'm certainly not going to tell peoplethey shouldn't go on TikTok or Instagram or
whatever they want to do.
You can waste a lot of time.
I scroll I get so there's a lot of time wastedscrolling on TikTok.
It is it is an amazing it's an amazingplatform.
I I have to be honest, and we get a lot oftraction on it.
But, yeah, I could see how it could be a littlebit a time suck.
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Well, I guess that's that's up to theindividual.
But what I would say is it's it's not thatsomebody can't mention their personal life on
LinkedIn.
It's just not an expectation.
Mhmm.
And, I mean, as with any social media, somebodywhatever somebody puts out there, they have to
be ready to respond to because social mediaexists pervasively and persistently, and it's
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not gonna go away.
So if you let's say there's a throwback pictureof of you in your youth, not you, obviously,
but a person in their youth.
Maybe it was a a college event or somethingthat maybe they don't really want to be known
for now, it's a good time to take that photodown.
It doesn't mean you can't have the photo, butpublicizing it probably isn't the best idea.
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And the same goes I think it's true for, let'ssay, strident or closely held opinions about
maybe things that have that are divisive.
So unless you are willing to own that you'vedone this in the face of anybody, you know, any
any kind of interaction that is is forthcoming,it might theoretically support your candidacy
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for a role, or it might make somebody stop andsay, no.
I can't hire somebody who's going to saywhatever these things are.
And we all know enough of, the things that aredivisive in this world that there's plenty of
sides to come down on in any given issue.
That having so with that having been said,maybe LinkedIn is a good place to keep
professional communication professional and theother social media.
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Let's reserve that for the other things thatmaybe are not as as a direct of a connection to
somebody's future job.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Is that diplomatic enough?
Do you
know what mean?
Diplomatic enough for sure.
So and, ultimately, what it comes down to isyou better be careful which hill you decide to
die on, right, when it comes to because itcould just burn your career.
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So, and and and be careful of all the devices.
You know, you're right about the divisivenessthat's out there these days.
What about when when people go through adivorce, what I what I see what I what I see on
the tail end of it a lot is that there's, likethere's a lot of unsteadiness, especially from
a financial perspective.
They're concerned about their finances, andthey have, like, what is my new life gonna look
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like, and how do I take how do I keep a roofover the kids' heads, and how do I put myself
on the like, all these spinning plates ofresponsibility and all these things that, like,
and people even some people people feel shameabout having a divorce.
So how do you help people break through thatbarrier, so to speak, and and and project
confidence and and try to eliminate that eventhough when they they might not be feeling it
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inside?
You have to be you have to be super confidentwhen you're going into interview settings and
trying to find a a new career for yourself.
So, like, how would how do we best handle that?
Well, I think in the same way, nobody likedgetting up in tenth grade in front of classroom
to give their book report or whatever.
Everybody is going through that same sense.
And I'm I'm sure your, you know, our listenersare are feeling it even more acutely, but I
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think nobody really knows how to do this withconfidence.
So reaching out to people as a human being isI'm a human.
You're a human.
We're having a human conversation.
I think that's a very good place to start.
And and knowing that not every interaction isgonna be perfect, and it doesn't have to be.
It just has to be who you are in terms ofassessing what to do when you feel that panic.
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I will offer up one other thing, which I Idon't know if this was sort of where you were
going, but I think about it a lot, is be verywary of who your audience or your your
networking connections might be if you don'tknow them because there is so much in the way
of scam out there that makes job search nowparticularly, I think, harder than ever.
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So if somebody is feeling panicked, maybethey're in a financial situation or they feel
like they have to go out and and do somethingproductive for whatever reason, and they have
to do it yesterday.
I I believe in the need for speed.
I get it.
I understand why that's a driving factor, but Ihope it will also provoke people to assess what
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they're reading very, very critically.
And if somebody looks like they don't have alot of on LinkedIn.
If if you're talking to somebody who is tryingto get you to speak off platform or they're
trying to get you to send private information,this is this is not somebody that you want to
be, interacting with.
And if it looks like their titles and their jobtitles and their experience and maybe schooling
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don't seem to add up and maybe they only havethree connections, these are red flags.
Which is, by the way, another reason why whensomebody is new to LinkedIn, they should be
connecting with all the people they do know sothat there is some critical mass there with
people that are are legitimate so that theyalso look legitimate.
And by the way, a real photo is a great way toamplify that.
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So if you're seeing a profile that looks likean AI photo with, you know, seven fingers and
whatever, total red flag.
Yeah.
We are and that's you have to watch out forthose in the in the instant messaging, you
know, the messaging portal there.
Right?
Because we get just like I mentioned earlier,we get a lot of people out of reaching out
trying to, like, you know, pick your brain, soto speak, on a weekly basis.
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And there's also a lot of people out theretrying to take your money at the same time.
You'd be cognizant of that.
It's the truth.
You you titled your book courageous careerchange.
I love that.
And I the the that word courageous and andhaving courage is incredibly important because
it takes people a lot of courage to make adecision to get a divorce and literally, like,
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disrupt their personal life, their financiallife, their kids' lives, like, all these
things.
Like, it's a it's such a disruptor.
So how does courage, like, come into play inthe context of starting over?
Like, what are your thoughts on that,especially for someone who really may may not
even have chew chosen this disruption in theirlife?
Wow.
That's a big question.
And I I really feel for people who areexperiencing radical change and what that means
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to in in terms of of sort of upsettingeverything about what they knew and and
upending their stability.
In the career space or in the job search space,I think people choose not to act because it's
safer than acting.
I think that's one thing that people are arelikely to do.
(24:22):
So in some sense, the first step, the smalleststeps are at least a little bit of momentum.
And to decide where to appropriately placeconcern and worry, I think, as opposed to what
is either completely unchangeable or what ismaybe people aren't interpreting correctly.
(24:47):
So right now, people might say, well, nobody'sgetting jobs.
The economy is terrible.
And I don't know.
Whatever the thing is that they think ishappening.
And that says to them, well, I shouldn't bedoing anything at all.
But that's regardless of what's happening inthe macro sense, in the individual sense, I see
people getting jobs all the time.
And and really smart people preparing well areless likely, I think I mean, not in any sort
(25:12):
of, like, scientific sense, but, like, I I seethis are less likely to to feel that fear and
that that sort of deer in the headlights lookbecause they are taking control of what looks
like a completely chaotic system and and makingtheir own way forward.
So a change today might not have bigimplications for today, but it might have
(25:37):
implications for the next step and the nextstep and the next step.
Maybe starting to write down all the thingsthat you want your audience to know about you
is a place to start.
It's it's not external.
You're just working within your own, you know,writing it on your notebook or in in your
computer or whatever.
And then the next step is maybe turning thatinto a resume or putting that content out on
(25:59):
LinkedIn or writing your first post onLinkedIn, testing those waters.
So not trying to do everything all at oncebecause that would be terrifying.
That would be absolutely terrifying to try todo everything at once, especially, I think, the
case of maybe the listeners who are probablydealing with a whole lot of stuff, that one
more thing might be the straw that breaks thecamel's back.
But taking one step at a time and controllingthat trajectory gives that person a lot of
(26:25):
agency.
And I think that's true in job search, probablyin a lot of things.
It's all about the momentum.
Right?
Taking that one one step at a time, and thenext thing you know, it snows snowballs into
the next thing and the next thing and thething, and then you finally finally get, some
real solid movement.
So I I appreciate that that thought.
This is this is what I would call the carteblanche segment of our of our conversations
(26:46):
today before I I let you get going.
But is there any are there any questions Ididn't ask, I should have, or anything you
wanna share with our listeners that, maybe wedidn't touch upon today?
Or or even if you wanna go back to and and hitthat point home?
Well, actually, I'm glad you asked that.
Not the carte blanche part.
Talk about fear provoking.
But the You
can go any direction you wanna go, but don'tmess it up.
(27:07):
Anything I want.
No.
But going back to something that I think isreally, really important that people don't
think about when they're launching a jobsearch, which is even if it is true that
somebody can do so many things and and I seethis really on a daily basis where I I get to
interact with such incredible people with somuch talent, so much experience, and so much
(27:29):
capability.
The message I can do anything for you, meaningthe company or the hiring team, is a frankly
terrible pitch.
So I can do this thing because I know you, thehiring team, have this specific problem or this
specific circumstance is a really compellingpitch.
So it might not be the first thing a job seekerthinks about, but it should be woven in to as
(27:56):
soon as possible into every step they takethroughout their job search, which is I am a,
fill in the blank, I do this thing, and I do itfor companies that need this expertise.
And that sort of lock and key connection is so,so compelling, and it makes everybody in the
room understand why they're having theconversation they are.
(28:17):
Oh, love it.
The lock and key.
I love that analogy.
Amy, thank you so much for bringing yourexpertise and empathy to today's conversation.
And as you know, divorce doesn't just changeour relationships.
It often reshapes our professional past andfinancial futures too.
Your practical advice and clear strategies helpdemystify that next step.
And I know you're our listeners will benefitfrom all of your expertise and your
(28:39):
perspective, during our conversation today.
For those of you listening, you can connectwith Amy on LinkedIn, and we'll include links
to her book and services in the show notes.
If you're navigating divorce and wonderingwhat's next for your finances and your future,
visit us at allegiantds.com.
We're here to help you rebuild with clarity andconfidence.
Be sure to subscribe to Broke Up Not Broken formore empowering episodes just like this one.
(29:02):
And as always, breathe deep, think clearly, andtake care of yourself and your future.
Until next time.
Welcome back to another episode of Broke Up NotBroken.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Jamie Lima, and founder ofAllegiant Divorce Solutions, where we help
people prepare for, navigate, and recoverfinancially from divorce.
This podcast is your one stop shop formastering your life and your finances
throughout the entire divorce process.
In today's episode, we're gonna be sharing sometime with Amy Adler, who is the president of
(00:22):
five strengths career transition experts and arecognized authority in executive resume
writing and career portfolio development.
With multiple industry certifications,including certified master resume writer,
certified executive resume master, andnationally certified online profile expert, Amy
has helped countless professionals redefinetheir careers with confidence.
(00:43):
In this episode, we're gonna talk about howcareer transitions, whether necessary,
strategic, or overdue, can become a powerfulpart of post divorce reinvention.
From rewriting your resume to reconnecting withyour network, Amy is gonna share some tips and
tricks and some tools and the mindset shiftsthat can help you move forward professionally
and financially after a major life change.
(01:04):
So welcome aboard, Amy.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
I think this is gonna be an amazingconversation.
I'm so happy to have you here with us.
Thank you so much for inviting me today.
I'm so glad to be here.
Yeah.
Of course.
A lot of the people that we work with are kindof in in I know you probably deal with them in
your in your world there or, like, on the endof a divorce or trying to recover from a
(01:26):
divorce and try to figure out what the nextbest step is for them career wise.
So you must come across this a lot.
It's true.
I think people come from well, they come fromall different sorts of situations, but I think
a big piece of it is when there's been a lifechange and something has happened or some
financial situation has brought them to thepoint where they need to get a different job or
(01:48):
a new job or maybe the first job they've heldin a long time after raising a family.
These things happen with surprising frequencyalongside sort of the more traditional job
searches.
But it's it's always a surprise to me that theyare surprised that they haven't, as I like to
say, planted the tree before they need theshade, that they haven't been thinking about
these things long in advance.
(02:10):
And all of a sudden, they are presented with asituation that they now have to deal with in
terms of their career or their career change.
Yeah.
And a lot of the people that we work with, I'lljust I'll just kinda share with you the
demographic and a lot of the demographic of thefolks that are listening to us today.
We have a lot of folks that are, you know, stayat home moms and decided that they were gonna
sacrifice their own career to stay at home totake care of the family and and and keep that
(02:32):
the family unit together.
And, you know, that and that may be five years,ten years, twenty five years.
I mean, it so we work with a lot of people thathave been doing that work for a long, long
time, and they've sacrificed their career to beable to do that and and help their significant
other, you know, in his or her career.
So so what do you have to say to those peoplethat are that are experiencing that?
(02:54):
And now they're thinking like, I've gotta figfigure out how to get back into the workforce.
What are some of the first things you wouldtell somebody that shared that experience with
you?
I would say the first thing is tone down thefear that comes with this.
Because inevitably, this is going to be very,very scary for somebody who's been out of the
workforce for some time.
I was just talking with somebody this week, thehusband, actually, who's been raising the
(03:18):
toddlers for the last handful of years, and nowhe's ready to do something for himself that is
is, you know, sort of professionally oriented.
So it's not just the moms.
I will I will say for sure, can be the dadstoo.
And to to get past that initial sort of shellshock of I have to now go do something very,
(03:42):
very different from what I've been doing beforecan start with some pretty simple and frankly
free explorations and maybe only in in in termsof of investment in terms of time, but they
certainly don't cost anything to to get thisnew sort of plan in place.
(04:03):
And the first thing I advise people to do is tolook at their favorite job search sites.
So, of course, LinkedIn is a big one.
Indeed is a a really good one for this process.
And instead of saying, you know what?
I want to be a, fill in the blank, whatever itis, do a search on things that they like to do.
(04:26):
So things they're good at.
So a stay at home parent certainly is dealingwith budgeting and purchasing and managing
perhaps, I won't say a staff necessarily, butsort of all the stakeholders, maybe the kids'
teachers and their health care teams and andall those kinds of things.
And these can be proxies, if you will, for thekind of work that happens in in a corporate
(04:51):
environment.
So some piece of this is what people shouldsearch for just to see what these jobs look
like.
What what jobs use these skills?
What can they search for?
Or what can they find when they're searchingthat feels like stuff they wanna do every day?
So so, basically, what you're saying is takesome of the the the unpaid experiences that
(05:13):
you've had and try to find that overlap.
No doubt.
And and the same is true, by the way, forvolunteerism.
So somebody who has been out in the communityor working at a kid's school or some maybe
religious institution or whatever it is, justbecause it's not paid doesn't mean it's not
real work.
That's pretty interesting.
What about networking?
You talk a lot about networking and the thework that you do in on your website.
(05:36):
So when networking is one of those I I do itbecause I have to.
It is one of my least favorite things to do.
I'm not one of the shaking bay you know,shaking hands and kissing babies type type of
person.
I could never be a politician, but this issomething that people have to get, you know,
get over that.
Right?
Especially if you're reentering the workforce,I would presume.
It's true.
And I and it might be the second most fearprovoking aspect of job search, if the prior
(06:01):
one was the first.
And but it's a natural extension of what we doevery day.
So meeting somebody at the kid's soccer game,you know, the spouse or the friend or whatever
of of somebody you know, these are very safenetworking.
Let's call them targets because they're alreadyin in your orbit, and asking the people you
(06:24):
know best makes it even easier.
So let's say your cousin works in a totallydifferent industry compared to you.
You know, you see your one another at familygatherings, and you talk about all sorts of
things, reminisce about being kids or whateveryou're doing, but maybe you never asked.
So tell me, what is it like to be in the suchand such manufacturing industry?
(06:46):
Or what do you do in the office of whatever atat your, you know, in your state government?
And these are very safe targets to tocentralize your your initial networking
outreach on because these are people whoalready know you and already care about you.
So making this first foray, like, doing it likethis means you're generating practice, and
(07:10):
you're figuring out how to do this and what tosay.
So then when you want to talk to somebody youdon't know, you can kind of, you know, close
your eyes and jump and know that you have doneall the preparatory work that enables you to
have a meaningful conversation with somebodyyou might not know as well.
It and then I presume at that point, it's justall about the momentum.
Right?
Because isn't that isn't that the story of lifeis once once you take that first step forward
(07:34):
and you get that momentum behind you, it's it'smuch easier from there, I presume.
Well, I'm sure we all remember the commercialfrom back in the seventies, you know, and they
told two friends and they told two friends.
Right?
It's the same thing.
So if you whether use these using these exactwords or or this sort of spirit of language,
who else should I talk to?
(07:55):
Who else do you think I could learn from?
They might say, you know what?
You should really talk to my friend, Sally, oryou should really talk to my friend, Joe.
They know a lot about whatever we've beentalking about or the things that you're
interested in.
And now you have quite literally a warmintroduction with somebody who you already
(08:16):
knows and trusts you to somebody they alreadyknow, know, like, and trust, same same
language, and that connection should berelatively seamless.
So it's not exactly calling up somebody you'venever laid eyes on or never had a connection
to, although it can be.
But these warm connections can be super, supervaluable as people try to expand in different
(08:37):
ways.
And by the way, everyone likes talking aboutthemselves.
So if you want to speak to somebody about whatthey do and what they know, it is it's almost a
slam dunk because they are likely to want totalk about themselves.
And in the process, think you're brilliantbecause you're asking fabulous conversation
(08:59):
fabulous questions, delivering engagingconversation, and letting them have their have
their their space to say all the things thatyou want to know about them.
And that's the thing is you have to have goodquestions.
Right?
I mean, that's the the the beauty of of, youknow, that that Pareto's rule.
Right?
If you're if you're talking 20% of the time andand they're talking 80% of the time, you that's
(09:20):
that's the that's the hook.
Right?
So ask really good questions, really goodfollow-up questions, and keep and keep your
keep your, you know, the that person thatyou're trying to to glean information from
talking.
And I I've seen this even in my own in theinterviews I've done in the past.
When you when they're ask when you're askingreally good questions and that person is
(09:40):
talking and talking and talking, it it it kindof it puts takes the pressure off of you some,
right, especially in the interview setting, andyou're letting that interviewer talk, talk,
talk.
It's it's almost like a it's almost a slam dunkif you can just keep them talking.
Completely.
And they will love it.
And and that's the best way to learn.
Right?
Because in that eighty twenty view of theworld, you're learning four times as much as
(10:04):
you're speaking.
So Yeah.
Yeah.
And let them let them share with you what theyknow.
And and it's not that you can't speak or youcan ask questions or you can't have some sort
of interaction that's natural for you.
But the point is to learn from them.
That's incredible.
Super helpful so far.
So let's let's I wanna do a deep dive if we canto hear on LinkedIn because you mentioned it
(10:27):
earlier.
And I I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn and,you know, trying to trying to, you know, market
my the the market our wares, so to speak.
But also, I I get a lot of those, hey.
Can I pick your brain type of messages all thetime?
Because I've been I've been a financial plannerfor twenty plus years now, and there are a lot
of people that are out there just starting offin this world and trying to learn, you know, or
(10:47):
maybe they launched their own practice, andthey're trying to figure out how to do that and
what the, you know, some of the the figure outwhat all the landmines are that I stepped in so
they can avoid them.
So we get a lot of that outreach.
And so I would presume leveraging LinkedIn canbe a little bit of a challenge, though, if
you're if you're coming out you haven't been inthe workforce for a long time.
So maybe let's talk a little bit about that,how you can maybe polish the the the the
(11:11):
virtual resume, so to speak, for those thosethat are listening that haven't been in the
workforce and how they can position that movingforward.
And, you know, once you get past that and youand you have your LinkedIn profile set up and
everything else, how do you maximize it?
That's kind of a two part question here, andbut that's kinda where I wanna go with this.
So let's talk about the first part here.
Anything you have to share there?
(11:32):
So when somebody let's say they don't have aLinkedIn profile.
They've never signed up.
I I I don't know if that's all that common.
I think there's about a billion users now.
So but let's say there's a lot.
But let's say somebody has a relativelyspeaking empty LinkedIn profile maybe with a
handful of connections or none, and there's nota lot of content to fill that.
(11:54):
The the very first thing a newish, let's say,user of LinkedIn has to think about is making
sure that there is content in there about themthat is it does two things.
One is it attracts a certain audience.
You might not know who that audience is yetbecause if you're still sort of exploring maybe
(12:15):
a new market or whatever it is, but it has toattract somebody.
So it can't be empty.
It has to have something in there.
And even what you've been doing of late, maybewhere you went to to college or if you did any
university work because we all have affinitysort of emotions about when we went to school
and people like to, you know, talk about thegood old days and that kind of a thing.
Different companies that we might have workedout over time.
(12:38):
And then fill in the spaces with the just adescription of the stuff that you did when you
were in these in these organizations.
And, again, they don't have to be paid work orreferences to paid work.
They can be work that you did at your kid'sschool or at a local nonprofit or, where
(13:02):
wherever you volunteer, whatever it might be,because that's still about you and it's still
really interesting.
Eventually, that content is going to shape in amore targeted way.
So it doesn't have to start that way, but theultimate goal is to have the right content in
there that should attract somebody who's doinga search for someone like you and then give
them something interesting to read when they'rethere.
(13:23):
And that might not come in the first round, butyour LinkedIn can be a little bit of a living
document in that sense.
And you are are allowed to change it every nowand then.
I won't say change it all the time and don'tchange it drastically unless you really, really
mean it because it will confuse people if it'sshifting all the time.
But you're allowed to make inroads into shapingit the way you want it to to feel and read so
(13:48):
that eventually you are speaking to a veryspecific audience, that kind of audience who
would presumably want to hire you.
So and then so then once you have the LinkedInprofile set up and you've got and you've kind
of, you know, I I have some questions about howwe can, like, handle that gap.
Right?
Because in some in some way some cases, therepeople have worked, you know, in a professional
(14:10):
setting.
They've they've worked you know, they theygraduated college.
They worked for a few years in a particularindustry or, you know, whatever.
And the next thing you know, you know, theydecide to take time off to to raise a family
and whether that's husband or wife or whatever.
It doesn't really matter, but then there's agap.
Right?
How to in overcoming that gap.
So so, I guess, maybe let's let's talk talkabout that, and then I wanna I wanna talk a
(14:33):
little bit about how we can actually maximizeLinkedIn to the best of our abilities here.
So how how do we overcome that gap?
So it depends on where the gap is.
If it's x number of years in the past, Iwouldn't worry about it very much.
If it's the most recent handful of years,that's something to address.
So let's say let's let's imagine a person whostarted staying home to raise a family ten
(14:55):
years ago, and there's nothing professional.
Nothing is sort of paid in the last ten years.
There's so much that somebody can still put inthat space that can address that gap.
During COVID, I think LinkedIn rolled out thisthing called a career gap.
I think everybody was experiencing the thecrunch, and it was really horrible.
(15:15):
But I think now it seems that best practicesindicate not to use the native career gap
option and to instead use whatever, again,whatever they've been doing.
If you're with your kids, if you're, I don'tknow, managing a household, whatever it might
be, or maybe you are a fitness enthusiast.
(15:35):
Here's what's taking imagine that you're youhave a hobby that takes some proportion of your
day, and now you want to just talk about it assomething you do every day.
So maybe you learned a lot about nutrition andweightlifting, and I don't know what else might
go into that.
Or let's say you're self studying on something.
Maybe you're self studying on I don't know.
(15:58):
Whatever might go into that.
I'm certainly no expert.
But maybe somebody who's changing direction,and let's say they're going from whatever they
used to, let's say, into some new technology,and they wanna talk about all the AI coursework
they've been participating in.
It's it's a perfect opportunity to give youraudience that first impression that you are on
(16:19):
the cutting edge of whatever is current now andthat you're learning about the best practices
and opportunities that, for example, AI, thatdoesn't have to be that.
It can be something else has to offer.
But that's another way to fill in that spacethat is legitimate, and it's honorable, and
it's real.
And if somebody asks you about it, you couldtalk, you know, talk their ear off about all
(16:39):
the fun things you've done and learned andpracticed and researched in that arena.
So if let's say you now you've you'vesolidified that and we can at least speak to
the gap that we have.
What are you've already talked about some ofthese tips and tricks, so to speak, but what
are some of the things that people can do to,like, really, like, maximize LinkedIn tools
(17:01):
like that?
And and what about some other social like,should they be on other social media platforms?
I mean, you mentioned Indeed earlier, which isjob search.
We've got LinkedIn as the biggest one, I think,from a from a networking perspective.
But, like, should they be doing other thingswith other social media accounts like TikTok
and Instagram and those types of things aswell, or is that, like, that's that's more like
the family fun stuff, and they should theyshould we should stay professional and focus on
(17:23):
LinkedIn.
How does that what does that all look like?
Well, I'm certainly not going to tell peoplethey shouldn't go on TikTok or Instagram or
whatever they want to do.
You can waste a lot of time.
I scroll I get so there's a lot of time wastedscrolling on TikTok.
It is it is an amazing it's an amazingplatform.
I I have to be honest, and we get a lot oftraction on it.
But, yeah, I could see how it could be a littlebit a time suck.
(17:44):
Well, I guess that's that's up to theindividual.
But what I would say is it's it's not thatsomebody can't mention their personal life on
LinkedIn.
It's just not an expectation.
Mhmm.
And, I mean, as with any social media, somebodywhatever somebody puts out there, they have to
be ready to respond to because social mediaexists pervasively and persistently, and it's
(18:07):
not gonna go away.
So if you let's say there's a throwback pictureof of you in your youth, not you, obviously,
but a person in their youth.
Maybe it was a a college event or somethingthat maybe they don't really want to be known
for now, it's a good time to take that photodown.
It doesn't mean you can't have the photo, butpublicizing it probably isn't the best idea.
(18:29):
And the same goes I think it's true for, let'ssay, strident or closely held opinions about
maybe things that have that are divisive.
So unless you are willing to own that you'vedone this in the face of anybody, you know, any
any kind of interaction that is is forthcoming,it might theoretically support your candidacy
(18:52):
for a role, or it might make somebody stop andsay, no.
I can't hire somebody who's going to saywhatever these things are.
And we all know enough of, the things that aredivisive in this world that there's plenty of
sides to come down on in any given issue.
That having so with that having been said,maybe LinkedIn is a good place to keep
professional communication professional and theother social media.
(19:15):
Let's reserve that for the other things thatmaybe are not as as a direct of a connection to
somebody's future job.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Is that diplomatic enough?
Do you
know what mean?
Diplomatic enough for sure.
So and, ultimately, what it comes down to isyou better be careful which hill you decide to
die on, right, when it comes to because itcould just burn your career.
(19:37):
So, and and and be careful of all the devices.
You know, you're right about the divisivenessthat's out there these days.
What about when when people go through adivorce, what I what I see what I what I see on
the tail end of it a lot is that there's, likethere's a lot of unsteadiness, especially from
a financial perspective.
They're concerned about their finances, andthey have, like, what is my new life gonna look
(19:58):
like, and how do I take how do I keep a roofover the kids' heads, and how do I put myself
on the like, all these spinning plates ofresponsibility and all these things that, like,
and people even some people people feel shameabout having a divorce.
So how do you help people break through thatbarrier, so to speak, and and and project
confidence and and try to eliminate that eventhough when they they might not be feeling it
(20:20):
inside?
You have to be you have to be super confidentwhen you're going into interview settings and
trying to find a a new career for yourself.
So, like, how would how do we best handle that?
Well, I think in the same way, nobody likedgetting up in tenth grade in front of classroom
to give their book report or whatever.
Everybody is going through that same sense.
And I'm I'm sure your, you know, our listenersare are feeling it even more acutely, but I
(20:44):
think nobody really knows how to do this withconfidence.
So reaching out to people as a human being isI'm a human.
You're a human.
We're having a human conversation.
I think that's a very good place to start.
And and knowing that not every interaction isgonna be perfect, and it doesn't have to be.
It just has to be who you are in terms ofassessing what to do when you feel that panic.
(21:12):
I will offer up one other thing, which I Idon't know if this was sort of where you were
going, but I think about it a lot, is be verywary of who your audience or your your
networking connections might be if you don'tknow them because there is so much in the way
of scam out there that makes job search nowparticularly, I think, harder than ever.
(21:37):
So if somebody is feeling panicked, maybethey're in a financial situation or they feel
like they have to go out and and do somethingproductive for whatever reason, and they have
to do it yesterday.
I I believe in the need for speed.
I get it.
I understand why that's a driving factor, but Ihope it will also provoke people to assess what
(22:00):
they're reading very, very critically.
And if somebody looks like they don't have alot of on LinkedIn.
If if you're talking to somebody who is tryingto get you to speak off platform or they're
trying to get you to send private information,this is this is not somebody that you want to
be, interacting with.
And if it looks like their titles and their jobtitles and their experience and maybe schooling
(22:25):
don't seem to add up and maybe they only havethree connections, these are red flags.
Which is, by the way, another reason why whensomebody is new to LinkedIn, they should be
connecting with all the people they do know sothat there is some critical mass there with
people that are are legitimate so that theyalso look legitimate.
And by the way, a real photo is a great way toamplify that.
(22:47):
So if you're seeing a profile that looks likean AI photo with, you know, seven fingers and
whatever, total red flag.
Yeah.
We are and that's you have to watch out forthose in the in the instant messaging, you
know, the messaging portal there.
Right?
Because we get just like I mentioned earlier,we get a lot of people out of reaching out
trying to, like, you know, pick your brain, soto speak, on a weekly basis.
(23:08):
And there's also a lot of people out theretrying to take your money at the same time.
You'd be cognizant of that.
It's the truth.
You you titled your book courageous careerchange.
I love that.
And I the the that word courageous and andhaving courage is incredibly important because
it takes people a lot of courage to make adecision to get a divorce and literally, like,
(23:33):
disrupt their personal life, their financiallife, their kids' lives, like, all these
things.
Like, it's a it's such a disruptor.
So how does courage, like, come into play inthe context of starting over?
Like, what are your thoughts on that,especially for someone who really may may not
even have chew chosen this disruption in theirlife?
Wow.
That's a big question.
And I I really feel for people who areexperiencing radical change and what that means
(24:00):
to in in terms of of sort of upsettingeverything about what they knew and and
upending their stability.
In the career space or in the job search space,I think people choose not to act because it's
safer than acting.
I think that's one thing that people are arelikely to do.
(24:22):
So in some sense, the first step, the smalleststeps are at least a little bit of momentum.
And to decide where to appropriately placeconcern and worry, I think, as opposed to what
is either completely unchangeable or what ismaybe people aren't interpreting correctly.
(24:47):
So right now, people might say, well, nobody'sgetting jobs.
The economy is terrible.
And I don't know.
Whatever the thing is that they think ishappening.
And that says to them, well, I shouldn't bedoing anything at all.
But that's regardless of what's happening inthe macro sense, in the individual sense, I see
people getting jobs all the time.
And and really smart people preparing well areless likely, I think I mean, not in any sort
(25:12):
of, like, scientific sense, but, like, I I seethis are less likely to to feel that fear and
that that sort of deer in the headlights lookbecause they are taking control of what looks
like a completely chaotic system and and makingtheir own way forward.
So a change today might not have bigimplications for today, but it might have
(25:37):
implications for the next step and the nextstep and the next step.
Maybe starting to write down all the thingsthat you want your audience to know about you
is a place to start.
It's it's not external.
You're just working within your own, you know,writing it on your notebook or in in your
computer or whatever.
And then the next step is maybe turning thatinto a resume or putting that content out on
(25:59):
LinkedIn or writing your first post onLinkedIn, testing those waters.
So not trying to do everything all at oncebecause that would be terrifying.
That would be absolutely terrifying to try todo everything at once, especially, I think, the
case of maybe the listeners who are probablydealing with a whole lot of stuff, that one
more thing might be the straw that breaks thecamel's back.
But taking one step at a time and controllingthat trajectory gives that person a lot of
(26:25):
agency.
And I think that's true in job search, probablyin a lot of things.
It's all about the momentum.
Right?
Taking that one one step at a time, and thenext thing you know, it snows snowballs into
the next thing and the next thing and thething, and then you finally finally get, some
real solid movement.
So I I appreciate that that thought.
This is this is what I would call the carteblanche segment of our of our conversations
(26:46):
today before I I let you get going.
But is there any are there any questions Ididn't ask, I should have, or anything you
wanna share with our listeners that, maybe wedidn't touch upon today?
Or or even if you wanna go back to and and hitthat point home?
Well, actually, I'm glad you asked that.
Not the carte blanche part.
Talk about fear provoking.
But the You
can go any direction you wanna go, but don'tmess it up.
(27:07):
Anything I want.
No.
But going back to something that I think isreally, really important that people don't
think about when they're launching a jobsearch, which is even if it is true that
somebody can do so many things and and I seethis really on a daily basis where I I get to
interact with such incredible people with somuch talent, so much experience, and so much
(27:29):
capability.
The message I can do anything for you, meaningthe company or the hiring team, is a frankly
terrible pitch.
So I can do this thing because I know you, thehiring team, have this specific problem or this
specific circumstance is a really compellingpitch.
So it might not be the first thing a job seekerthinks about, but it should be woven in to as
(27:56):
soon as possible into every step they takethroughout their job search, which is I am a,
fill in the blank, I do this thing, and I do itfor companies that need this expertise.
And that sort of lock and key connection is so,so compelling, and it makes everybody in the
room understand why they're having theconversation they are.
(28:17):
Oh, love it.
The lock and key.
I love that analogy.
Amy, thank you so much for bringing yourexpertise and empathy to today's conversation.
And as you know, divorce doesn't just changeour relationships.
It often reshapes our professional past andfinancial futures too.
Your practical advice and clear strategies helpdemystify that next step.
And I know you're our listeners will benefitfrom all of your expertise and your
(28:39):
perspective, during our conversation today.
For those of you listening, you can connectwith Amy on LinkedIn, and we'll include links
to her book and services in the show notes.
If you're navigating divorce and wonderingwhat's next for your finances and your future,
visit us at allegiantds.com.
We're here to help you rebuild with clarity andconfidence.
Be sure to subscribe to Broke Up Not Broken formore empowering episodes just like this one.
(29:02):
And as always, breathe deep, think clearly, andtake care of yourself and your future.
Until next time.
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