Chris & Marcia Lessard: Healing TBI, PTSD, and Trauma Through Holistic Brain Therapy

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hey folks, welcome to another episode of Broken
Brains with your host, bruceParkman, sponsored by the Mack
Parkman Foundation, where welook at the issue of repetitive
brain trauma from repetitivehead impacts in contact sports
to repetitive blast exposure inour veteran population and what
these conditions are doing tothe brains of our children, our

(00:32):
veterans and our athletes, andthe causes and how they are
causing what could be called thelargest epidemic of mental
illness that's preventable inthis country.
It's called the largestepidemic of mental illness
that's preventable in thiscountry.
So we reach out to researchersand doctors and lawyers and
holistic practitioners and allkinds of folks out there to give
you the 360 degree view of thisissue.

(00:56):
Why?
Because this is not taught inany nursing, medical or
psychological course and youneed to be informed to make
those correct decisions foryourself, those you love to
include, our children.
Today, another set of amazingguests.
We love having twofers on thisshow man Chris Lessard and
Marcia Lessard.
I said it right Lessard orLessard.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
You sure did.
You're actually one of the fewpeople that actually it's
usually Lessard when we hear Iusually look at hey.
Police Academy movies thinkthat, but not many people know
the Police Academy moviesanymore.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
All right, I got it.
All right, we'll give it onefor the Boston Education Center.
So Chris Lessard is a retiredArmy Green Beret instructor and
project manager.
He's the owner of the BrainTreatment Center in Ashburn,
where they specialize infunctional health and MERT, a
non-invasive treatment fordepression, ptsd and TBI.

(01:48):
Chris plays a key role inoverseeing various aspects of
the clinic and ensuring thatcutting-edge therapies are
accessible to veterans and thebroader community.
Chris is a student at LibertyUniversity, currently pursuing a
master's in clinical mentalhealth counseling and, drawing
from his personal experienceswith TBI and PTSD, he plans to

(02:09):
specialize in trauma therapy forspecial operations, veterans,
first responders and theirfamilies.
His goal is to provide tailored, compassionate care to those
affected by the uniquechallenges of trauma, and he is
a husband and father of fourliving in the Northern Virginia
area, with Marsha Lessard righthere.
The wife of Chris Lessard and,you know, at Green Beret and a

(02:32):
mother of four currently residesin the Washington DC area.
Her career journey has beendiverse, beginning in law
enforcement and transitioning toroles in education,
investigations and the nonprofitsector.
It was through this journeythat she discovered her true
passion investigations and thenonprofit sector.
It was through this journeythat she discovered her true
passion holistic health andcounseling.
A graduate of John HopkinsUniversity, with both
undergraduate and graduatedegrees in ethical management,

(02:54):
marsha has recently completed anaturopathic program and is now
pursuing her MSW.
We need to talk about that,because I don't even know what
that is.
She plans to specialize intrauma and PTSD care for special
operations, veterans, firstresponders and their families.
In addition to being a certifiedyoga teacher and I am married
to one and I practice yogareligiously as an old man Marsha

(03:18):
is a practitioner of thelistening program, an auditory
and integration therapy modality, and QRI, primitive reflex
integration.
I want to know more about that.
She is driven by her belief inholistic healing and the
conviction that we are createdaccording to God's divine design
.
Her approach integratesbiological, physiological,
psychological and socialperspectives to promote true

(03:41):
healing and mental well-being,and probably without the use of
pharmaceutical drugs that arekicking the ass out of our
veteran population.
Chris Marcia, welcome to theshow man.
What an amazing journey youboth have been on.
So how did you find each other?

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Oh my gosh IRCA.
I bought him on the internet.
He was the best $33.99 I everspent.
I bought him on the internetwas the best $33.99 I ever spent
.
I bought him on the internet.
We met on matchcom $33.99.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
That's a hell of a deal for a good husband nowadays
.
Man, she was a little bit moreexpensive.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
I think the men actually pay more on that site.
I think I spent $30.
Of course we do man, especiallyfor the premium edition, right
wow dude, of course we do, man,especially for the premium
edition, right, exactly thatword premium.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Dude, sounds like those algorithms are really
hitting it hard that day, man.
Good on you, congratulations.
So where'd you go on your firstdate?

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Oh my gosh, chris actually drove eight hours for
our first date.
He was at Drill up inMassachusetts and we had started
talking and I was doing matchbecause I was a cop at the time
and I didn't want people to knowthat I was a cop because men
can act a little weird aboutthat.
And um, we met, we talked forlike I don't know a week or two

(04:56):
straight and he drove eighthours down for her first date
and we went to DC.
Um, that was like my oldstomping grounds that's where I
grew up and he asked me to behis girlfriend that night.
I think he's probably the firstguy ever who was like will you
be my girlfriend?
It was the sweetest thing ever.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
I was hooked.
I sounded just like that too.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
That's good we all do on that first date so you're
driving us, so you're from theBoston area?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Chris, I am, and I was actually going to ask, cause
I noticed that that Patriotscar from the back.
Are you, are you from the areaor oh yeah, man, I'm a, I'm old.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
What do you call it?

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Mashable from back in the day, man, I'm right there
with you.
Yep, I actually grew up inWatertown, Massachusetts area,
but yeah, I was up there drillout at Springfield at the time
and I was coming back and droveeight hours.
Um, probably left a littleearlier than I should have, but
you know, I wanted to meet the.

(05:50):
Uh, the future, uh, futuremisses and uh, yeah, it's been
magic ever since.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
That's awesome man.
So, um, when so?
Were you in the active army orwere you in the reserves?

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, so I was active army for a while, started off
in the infantry down at Polk inthe 509th and then went to
selection.
There you go, geronimo, andthen went to third group and was
there for—.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Geronimo, like first of the501st in the 101st.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
So yeah, so they still—they call the 509 geronimo
, like that's their thing backin 1982 when I was in the 101st.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
It was first of the 501st, but uh, you know, I don't
know that I'll change yeah allright, I'm sorry, man, I was
flashing back pretty hard ithappens.
No, dude, I don't hear thatanymore, man.
But yeah, go, yeah, go ahead,man, so, uh, so you went to
selection.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, went to selection, went to third group
for a few years, um, you know,probably should have stayed in,
but at the time I was like, youknow, I want to see what else is
in there in life.
Left there for and like withintwo or three months I was like,
screw this, I at least want tobe, you know, know part of it
still somehow.
And then, uh, that's when Ijoined 20th group up in
springfield, um, and then spentthe next few years, you know,

(07:09):
bouncing back from 20th and 19thgroup, just based off of where
we're moving up and down theeast coast pretty much okay,
what was your mosh?
uh.
So I was 18 echo, then I wentfox and then I was uh acting
zulu for a few years okay, so Ithought I was gonna put my money
on 18 delta man medic, sinceyou know, no do I look like a

(07:30):
delta.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
You guys are weird.
You look smart, man.
I don't know.
Man, we all know that.
You know echoes and deltas.
You know all bravos andcharlies are guys that flunk the
delta and echo course.
Right, I mean, we all know this.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Right, I mean yeah, well, of course you know.
It's funny though, because Iwould you know, being an 11
bravo prior to being 18 series,I thought I was a shoe-in for 18
bravo and that's what I put infor.
And they said, no, you're,you're gonna work, radios dude
all right.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Well, really did they give you the int to?

Speaker 2 (07:58):
oh, that's right, you guys don't do morse code
anymore no, so I was the firstclass where they stopped doing
morse code.
Really, what year was that?
Uh, that was oh three.
I want to say early oh three,oh wow, okay, yeah, all right,
so yeah you're.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
You're in there a long well, quite a while ago,
man, that's uh, yeah, yeah it'sbeen.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's been a while, it's it's.
We were having thatconversation a few nights ago
and I was like man, it's beenover 20 or about 20 years now
since I went to dive school andI'm like that ain't cool man.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
I was the first class in that new pool back in 1987,
bro.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
I just was down there with my wife in Key West.
I go hey, honey, you want to gosee the pool?
She goes, what pool?
I go the pool where I almostdied.
The pool.
He goes what pool.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
I go the pool where I almost died.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
So we drive out to the end of that key and the gate
was open, bro.
So we drive in and we got tothe building.
I'm like well, shit, ain'tnobody here.
So I knock on the door.
The door's open, so we'reworking.
So you know how we built allthose posters at the end of our
class, the doc took our picturesand we're all on there, I and
we're all on there.
I was like hey, let's go findmy class poster.
Of course, you know, 30 yearsago, we're halfway through that

(09:05):
building.
Somebody goes, can we help you?
I was like I guess we weren'tsupposed to be in there, so I,
but that pool was still there.
Dude, Craziness man.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
We got married down there.
Like we got married down there,chris was like when we were
planning our wedding, chris waslike wouldn't it be so amazing
if, like the two most importantparts of, like my career and my
life kind of happened in thesame location?
And I was like, yes, and thenhe.
Then he left, he like deployedor went on training or something
.
He's like you plan it, babe.

(09:34):
And I called down the girlslike I'll give you 50 percent
off your wedding.
And I was like, oh, she likesme, she thinks I'm cool.
We showed up.
It was like naked bikerseverywhere.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
I was like what have we?
Done it was like a few daysbefore bike week started, so the
body paint was a flow in.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
You know people were just and she's like crying
because this is her wedding andI'm having a great time coming
down.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, you're like, I love you, honey.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
He ran away on purpose and then like 30 to 40
people still showed up at thiswedding.
So we have this like beautifulbig wedding under a tent at like
zero Duval Street.
We could see, you know, theschool off in the distance and
stuff like that.
And then like three of ourpictures.
There's like half naked bikerslike popping up on the pier
sticking their beer bottles inour pictures.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Dude, that is amazing man.
Well man, chris, thank you somuch for your service.
Man, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
And Marcia, so you were a police officer.
I was, I was a police officer.
When Chris and I first met andwhen we were talking about time
the other day, I was like wait,when did you go to dive school?
And I realized it was likeright around the time that I
started the police academy.
So I started on my 21stbirthday.
I was a designated driver.
The night before I took all mygirlfriends to Baltimore and

(10:49):
then showed up at the policeacademy the next day ready to go
, and I would have reachednatural retirement this year.
But I was medically retired afew years into it after a pretty
significant incident and I hadto have some surgery and had
some things fixed and whatnot.
And now here we are.
But I always say like the timingwas so perfect because I was I

(11:16):
don't know.
I was just so ready for I wasdoing this master's at Hopkins,
I was super trained and I wantedto do SWAT, but my big goal was
to be a federal agent and I hadno interest in getting married.
I was already a single mom, Ididn't want any more kids.
And then, boom, I got hurt andit was such an identity conflict
because I had developed all ofmy personality around my
profession.
You know, I was working at amunicipality within Prince
George's County, which is like areally high speed area.

(11:38):
You know, we were doing ourthing.
I was having a lot of fun, Iwas learning a lot and I was
very active in communityoriented policing and working
with the kids in the area.
I really wanted to get intodrugs and my goal was to be in
the DEA.
And then I got hurt andeverything shifted and I never
really like there was a lot ofPTSD involved and I didn't think
like how am I going to recover?

(11:59):
But in retrospect it was soperfect because I met this
amazing guy, you know, and I hadno, no thought in my head that
I'm ever going to get married ordo any of that.
But I was vulnerable enough inthat moment praise God that I
was like, yeah, I'll get into arelationship with you, I'll date
you.
You're a strong, handsome armyguy.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
It's all God's plan.
I mean it might not look likeit at the time, but it is all
part of God's plan.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
It is, and I'm grateful for every minute of it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Well, I tell you, I mean just talking to you both
and then reading it here, itsounds like not only do you have
a common denominator of love,sounds like you both got a
common denominator of PTSD andTBI.
So I mean, you know, and thatmight have led you down this
path.
So, chris, let's start with you.

(12:50):
Man, tell us about.
You know what your experiencehas been with these.
You know two issues that youknow have impacted a significant
amount of our brothers outthere in the special operations
community, and sisters too.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, here we go right.
So, yeah, it was a long, longbattle.
You know, before I met Marsha,you know there was issues with
you know traumatic brain injurythat I wasn't aware of, that we
just kind of, you know, all wentabout our business.
I was actually and it's noteven a cool story, like you know

(13:16):
, I wasn't a hero or anythinglike that.
You know it was an ATV rolloverwhere I rolled down a mountain.
Where I rolled down a mountain,I don't remember hitting the
ground, but I remember coming toand looking down at the sky and
then, like the ground was likethe ceiling is kind of weird,
and then eventually things kindof worked back to normal.
And then you add in all youknow flashbangs going off and

(13:37):
you know combatives training andjumps.
You know I was never a PLF guy.
I was always foot butt head orjust foot head.
You know, um, yeah, that thatthat whole PLF thing is BS, I
think.
So just all that stuff, um, youknow I started really really
drinking and I and I get youknow, a lot of people do start

(13:58):
drinking a lot Um, painkillerswas another big thing Um, and
just a lot of stuff that Ireally started self-medicating,
but I was still in denial of it.
Um, I wasn't realizing that itwas an issue because you know,
even childhood stuff that I grewup in I didn't have the best of
childhoods, um single family ora single, you know, parent home

(14:19):
, um, pretty much raised in theprojects, um, through my aunt
and you know all that stuff.
So went through and was justreally good at
compartmentalizing stuff, whichI think we're all doing.
You know we all are good atthat.
That's why they choose us downthis path is we can really take
an event, say, okay, thishappened, I'm going to put this
over here and I'm going tocontinue mission Um, and that's

(14:43):
great, it's like a superpoweruntil it's not right and it just
all catches up.
So, as time went on, thingskind of really moved into a
breaking point.
You know I was at the pointwhere I didn't understand what
was happening.
I was at the point I was makinghorrible decisions.
I was, you know, suicidal.

(15:03):
I hate saying that, but it iswhat it is.
You know there was just a lotof issues.
I finally got scanned for TBI.
I think that was in 2015 at theVA.
They confirmed.
They said hey, buddy, yeah, youknow, tag, you're it.
So I went all right, did somenormal treatments.

(15:24):
I went to a prep down in Tampain 2017.
I think it was.
It was that three week program.
I was there for almost 10 weeks, um, the you know, and for what
it is, it's an actually it's areally good program.
Va did their thing for a while,um, but I was on the you know

(15:45):
the medication cocktail.
I was on a lot of differentmedications, um, and although I,
you know, I changed all of my,my behaviors that I wasn't
thrilled with, um, depressionstarted kind of easing off,
stuff like that.
I wasn't suicidal, but I wasreally a shell of a person.
I wasn't really living life.
I put on 30 pounds and I wasjust kind of going through the

(16:06):
motions and that was a problem.
And Marsha, you know, bless herheart.
She has always been into the,you know, organic eating, the
microbiomes, all the stuff, theholistic health.
So we started, you know, kindof working that we went to a
doctor for more functionalhormonal tests and stuff, got my
test done through him and hefound like I was extremely high

(16:29):
in mercury, lyme disease, I hadhigh levels of lead, my vitamin
D was way off, my testosterone,although in the quote unquote
normal range was like 300 orsomething like that.
I was, I don't know, 36, 37.
Yeah, exactly that's, that'snowhere near.

(16:50):
And so we, you know, we starteddoing, uh, more of that.
I did cleation therapy, moreglutathione, more healthy eating
, um, and things started to getbetter and I thought, okay, this
is as good as it's going to getoutstanding.
Um, and then we found MERT NowMarsha will go into it about our
son.
So our son is, I guess, was atthis point, which is incredible,

(17:11):
but he is the autism spectrum.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
So I can jump in and kind of because we did a little
bit in reverse order, but likeI'll tell you Luke's story real
quick and then we'll come rightback to Chris because it's just
so impactful.
I mean, I went to Hopkins forethical management but I was
very like proud of that degreeand everything that came along
with it and I was probably oneof the most mainstream medical
people that you could ever meet.

(17:38):
And that was not a medicaldegree, but I was just on board
with all of it.
And Luke, chris, for a while wewere stationed.
He was stationed down in Tampa.
He was a warrior care rep, hewas on ADAS orders and when we
got there it was like a switchflipped.
Like overnight Luke went fromwalking, talking, happy, healthy

(17:58):
, kiddo, two-year-old to justgone.
His words were gone, his motorfunction was gone and he
regressed into pretty severenonverbal autism.
Now, like in Florida, each stateis so different People don't
realize it, but access to careand different things is very
different in each state.
So in Florida, every day of theweek they're like you want
sensory therapy, you want OTtherapy, speech therapy, this

(18:20):
and that.
So we signed up for all thetherapies.
Tricare covered all of it.
It was great, and so we weremaking some progress, but not
big progress.
And that's where Chris and Iactually really got into
CrossFit at that time.
It's like a gateway drug to somany other things.
So that got us really into likemicrobiome and eating clean and
organic and doing all thisstuff.
And I had done some personaltraining before but that like it

(18:41):
was like a whole new worldabout, like interdependent
systems instead of independentsystems.
So we got the diet really clean, we got the biome really good
and at some point we thought,okay, we'll move to New England
when these orders are up insteadof renewing them because
there's got to be even moreresources up there.
And it was like the worstmistake ever.

(19:04):
We were living in rural NewHampshire and there was nothing
that took Tricare driving liketwo hours each way for very poor
speech therapy.
At this point we had gottenLukey a service dog because if
he got sensory overwhelmed hewas bolting and we had had
another baby since then.
They were only like 18 monthsapart and I was bolting after
this kid with this baby on mychest apart and I was bolting

(19:24):
after this kid with this baby onmy chest.
So Task Force Agri Foundationactually when they were first,
you know, up and coming, reachedout and said hey, there is this
therapy going on in California.
We are treating guys who areretired with it.
It's working amazingly well forPTSD and TBI Off-label, they're
treating autism.
We'd love to send Chris if hewants it, but they weren't
treating anybody who was stillin at that time.

(19:46):
But can we send you out there?
Just figure out if it'ssomething that's gonna help.
So right around that time we hadgotten a diagnosis of severe
nonverbal autism from toppediatric neurologists up in
Dartmouth.
I'm like, okay, put me on aplane, because the only therapy
options that they offered wereABA plane, because the only

(20:07):
therapy options that theyoffered were ABA and ABA was new
.
But the ABA center up therewanted us to place him in ABA,
which is an autism therapy.
It's more like a behavioraltraining therapy for 40 hours a
week and it was non-parentalinvolvement.
I was like you're absolutelyinsane if you think I'm dropping
my nonverbal kiddo off andgiving him a full time job.
So I jumped right on the planewe go out to California.
Newport Beach is the only placein the world that they were

(20:28):
doing this MERT therapy at thetime and the process starts with
an EEG.
So they come to me and they saythis EEG is not diagnostic.
It's the same EEG that we dohere in our clinic.
It's not diagnostic, but we dosee patterns and his pattern is
that as somebody with severe,you know autism, and I was like,
yeah, I know I sit with him, Iknow it is every day.
So another part of that programand we do that here in our

(20:49):
clinic as well is 30 minutes ofmorning sunlight before 11 am
every day.
It resets the circadian rhythms.
It creates a natural cortisolspike about midday which
triggers the brain to create,you know, all your sleepy
chemicals and hormones,naturally right around bedtime.
So every morning I'm at thebeach with him, I'm running with
him and the baby in the doublejogging stroller and you know

(21:10):
that's like I'm out there alonein a studio apartment.
Chris is holding the fort home,back home with our older
daughter.
And one morning I gave him theiPad because I was like I just
need two miles of peace andquiet.
I'm just going to run, you guysare going to play on this pad,
get your sunlight.
I'm now quiet.
So I go to pull him out of thestroller and I pull the iPad
away from him.
He's fussing, he's fussing,fussing.

(21:30):
He hasn't said a word to me,not an authentic word, in two
years.
And I say to him buddy, come on, no-transcript.

(22:12):
Older guy came up and like, puthis hand on his shoulder and he
was like Chris, if these arethe things you're experiencing,
you need to go get your headscanned.
And Chris was like no, I'm fine.
These are normal in ourcommunity and in retrospect,
knowing what I know now doingthis clinical mental health
degree in the functionalmedicine coming from my own, you

(22:34):
know, retired law enforcementPTSD bubble, there were some
significant things.
But Chris and I were both kidsthat were raised with if you're
familiar with it a really highACEs score.
The higher your ACEs score, youknow the more traumatized you
were as a child.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
What's an?

Speaker 3 (22:47):
I'm sorry to interject what's what's an ACEs
score?
I've never heard of that.
So an ACEs assessment issomething you're going to get
when you sit down for any typeof therapeutic intervention like
counseling or something likethat, and the higher your ACEs
score is, the more likely youare to be a green beret.
No, I'm just kidding, but, butyeah maybe because, like you,
can compartmentalize really well, but people with high ACEs
scores have been through a lotof trauma as children and so I

(23:08):
think we're all kind of drawn toeach other, you know, in a
certain way, because we havesimilar experiences.
But with that, I think when thestuff with the TBI started
coming out and the stuff withthe PTSD coming out because we
had both had such background inchildhood trauma we were just
like this is normal, this isokay.
You think it's normal until yourealize that this isn't what

(23:30):
normal is.
I'm sure we were both inrelationships before where that
were very chaotic and like lotsof crazy stuff happening and
that felt normal to us until werealized like even just being
with each other, we were in areally healthy spot.
When we got together it wasdifferent than it had ever been
in any other relationship beforefor both of us.
So you know, he goes back tomanchester, new hampshire.

(23:51):
He got to, he gets his headscanned and he's got this
massive tbi and we did go thenormal va route for a long time
so nobody had found this, this.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Uh, when you got, what kind of scan was it, chris?
Was it an m?
Mri or a functional MRI?

Speaker 2 (24:05):
So they did the MRI, they did the whole cat scan, but
they also did like the threehours of testing and hey, move
these object with the one handinto there and you know things
of that nature, um, and then youknow the whole screen and thing
, Um, but it was, it was a longprocess.
It took, I think, you know,over a span of three days
probably.

(24:26):
You know an hour each day andthen three hours in the one
middle day.
So it was, it was a decenteffort.
Um, and this was after prep.
No, this was two years before,two years prior.
Oh, okay.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
So, even after that, I think, just learning that he
had a TBI from a wifeperspective that he was a great
compartmentalizer because whenhe was home with us he was super
dad.
He was super dad, he was superhusband and all this, all these
things.
But he was still, you know, hewas working in government
contracting, he was doing theGreen Beret National Guard thing
.
So we average, honestly, weadded it up at one point, we

(25:04):
think, about the first 10 yearsof our marriage he was gone for
like nine to 10 months out ofthe year between the contracting
and the special operations,guard stuff.
So like when we were togetherit was great, he was on point
about everything.
But it was in that differenttravel and those different
things where I think things werereally falling apart and he was
like just shifting into thosedifferent roles.
But those compartments reallystarted to come down.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
And then we realized that and I'm not saying this is
the end I'll be- I'll talk aboutthat later, but I think that's
when you know the demons reallymess with you, right?
I think that's that was myissue is when I lost my support

(25:50):
system and I didn't know how tofunction properly, and that
depression, all of a sudden itjust would kick in almost
immediately and, you know,self-medicate.
I just got to distract myselffrom all of this stuff and that
was my biggest issue, you know,and so you know, looking back at

(26:13):
it now it's like you know.
And then the other thing is,when you do that, it's like you
already have the depression.
You don't know what's going on,you're depressed.
But now you do that, it's likeyou already have the depression.
You don't know what's going on,you're depressed, but now
you're making decisions that aremaking you more depressed,
because now you're living witheven more regret.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Were you being treated with pharmaceuticals at
this time as well.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
I was so in I can't remember what year it was.
Yeah, oh, nine, oh, 10something year it was yeah, oh
nine, oh ten something.
Um, I went because I knewsomething was off and I went to
a doctor, but I didn't want tobe fully open because I didn't
know this dude, I didn't trustthem, I didn't want to lose
anything, so I would only givethem a little bit, so they would

(26:53):
give me medications.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Come to find out that medication with my stuff
actually made things probably alot worse, and we find that even
now, like in practice, that alot of guys if you go into a
clinician and you say I haveanxiety and I go in and I say I
have anxiety, if they're astandard clinician they're just
going to write you a script.
But if they really break it down, that your anxiety is going to

(27:16):
look different than mine, it'sgoing to feel different than
mine and it could be twodifferent things.
It could be I have anxietybecause I have PTSD.
It could be you have anxietybecause you have TBI.
And really often what we'rehearing from a lot of the
benevolent organizations andpeople that we're seeing is that
if they have TBI, they go in,they say, well, I'm just kind of
down and I'm depressed, andthey don't talk about all the
other dark stuff that's going on.

(27:37):
The doctor doesn't cue in on itand they give them an SSRI.
And the SSRIs are causing a lotof different things to happen
in these guys, including periodsof psychosis, which is exactly
what my husband had.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
And they got a black box warning that is not divulged
.
And they finally got somelegislation passed that says
look, this stuff that I'm goingto give you has a black box
warning for psychosis, suicidalideation, whatever Right.
And you know, and and we?
The other thing I'll say is,while you know, while they were
giving you those, you know thosedrugs, they're not doing

(28:11):
anything for damage to yourbrain from all that repetitive
blast exposure, all thatrepetitive head impacts, which
which now we know could havebeen the whole cause of all
these issues.
So they're medicating the hellout of you, but and they're
giving you some therapy frompeople that have been in the
military, but then and they'regiving you a bag of drugs, but

(28:32):
they're not doing anything aboutthis.
And so wow.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
There's so many components with that.
So right now, um, I'm doing afellowship in neuropsych, right?
Wow, methylation is really anenzyme in your body that tells
your cells how to behave, how todetox, express your genetics.
Then you're exposed to a toxin.
You're going to hold on to that, which is going to cause a
domino effect of other symptoms,especially after a brain injury
, because the methylation needsto detox your brain.

(29:10):
But then we look at metabolichealth, if you have chronic
immune activation.
You guys are traveling all overthe world, you're being exposed
to different things.
You're being given things toprevent things from exposure to
different things.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
You have chronic hey, try this shot.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
You have a chronic immune activation, which can
cause poor metabolic function.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Three nights of bad sleep causes poor metabolic
function.
On top of that, I don't thinkthat you guys are eating the
healthiest when you're in themilitary.
I just don't believe it.
What?
But our story really?
Our story really, yeah.
So Mert moved the mountain forboth my son and my husband.

(29:50):
So he did almost a decade onall the pharmaceuticals, was a
shell of his former self, and Iremember just sitting down with
him and being like we need to dosomething else because I can't
live like this anymore.
Like I miss you, like I, youknow you were this go getter.
He had all of these goals inthe military and he always
crushed every single one of them.

(30:10):
And then it was like one yearwhere the PTSD and the TBI got
so bad and they were like you're18 and a half years in, we're
going to retire you, and that'sreally where I feel like the
wind got taken out of his sailsand he just fell into the
medications.
And then our son hit middleschool age and he's talking.
He's like you know, he's prettynormal kid, but he didn't have

(30:33):
that social, emotional component.
So I was like tell this story.
Like this girl was flirtingwith him one day and I was
standing across the hallway andI was kind of listening to it
and she was like, oh, you'rehomeschooled.
And she was like do you everwant to come to school?
And like, hang out with me, goto regular school.
And he looked at her.
He was like my mom has done myhomeschool in two hours.
Why would I go to school withyou?

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Like he didn't get it .

Speaker 3 (30:55):
So I was like we need to get him some more MERT, so
like somebody is going to wantto marry this rude kid one day,
some damaged woman will takethis rudeness.
So these MERT clinics startedopening across the country.
They started licensing andopening them and we had talked
about opening one before.

(31:15):
But we just like, how would weever do that, you know?
And we, one of the MERT clinicsopen in Denver.
Another special operations guy,retired steel, owns it and he
was like, hey, come out, we'llsee what we can do.
Chris, if you have depression,we can bring you in under
TRICARE, as long as you meet allthe standard of that, and we'll
work out a deal.
We'll treat Luke too.
And then that's when Chris gotout there and you wanted to kind

(31:36):
of take it from there, babe.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah.
So when they reached out to usI kind of was like, yeah, I'll
go check the block.
I don't know what it's going todo for me, but I know what it
does for Luke and any help wecan get for him.
That's one more brick in thewall.
So we go out there and I'mdoing it.
In about four or five weeksgoes by and I really don't
notice much difference.

(31:59):
But whatever, I'm there, I'mtrying to hold a good attitude.
And it was about week five orsix that I was in rush hour
traffic outside of Denver and Iwas sitting in traffic and I
realized I wasn't getting.
I wasn't gripping the steeringwheel, I wasn't white knuckling
and raging out.
I was like, all right, that'sinteresting, knuckling and

(32:20):
raging out.
I was like, all right, that'sinteresting.
Then I also noticed that I wasactually falling asleep and
sleeping through the night and Iwas always that guy that was
NyQuil with Tylenol PM andmelatonin, grind it all up, take
a shot and still not be able tosleep.
I was like interesting I startedreaming when I, my goodness, I
don't remember the last time Ihad a dream prior to that, and

(32:43):
so I called up Marsha and I waslike hey, um, if you're all
right, I'm going to start tocome off some of these meds.
Slowly.
See what happens.
Now rewind to 2017, when I wasin prep.
I came off some of the medswhile I was there and it was a
disaster.
I was calling her up at 12, onein the morning saying hey, you

(33:05):
need to go in the basement andlook, I bet there's snakes down
there.
Hey, you need to move the fishtank.
It's going to start a fightLike just, and she is like what
is going on?

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yeah, it was like who are you?

Speaker 2 (33:15):
It was really weird.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Chris is one of the most level-headed people I've
ever met.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
It was really weird.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
So I told her.
I said, hey, if you don't mind,because it was only Luke and I
out there by ourselves and Isaid, hey, I'm going to try to
come off these.
See what happens.
I started coming off of themmore, and more and more and then
there were no side effects,no-transcript.

(34:01):
You know, while we were outthere they, um, we were talking
to a couple of the reps and theysaid you know, we're talking to
us about a clinic and I was onthe phone and they mentioned
something about, you know, beingwith Luke and Liam and it, like
it really hit me.
And then, I swear, I heard avoice saying you have to do it
and so the rest of the call.
I'm like it really hit me.
And then, I swear, I heard avoice saying you have to do it
and so the rest of the call.

(34:22):
I'm like I'm just hearing thatin my head.
I'm not really hearing the restof the call at all.
I'm just kind of like, okay,okay, okay.
We hung up and she called me out.
She was like well, what do youthink?
I was like we just have to doit.
And we're not.
We just have to do it and we'renot business people at all.
I mean, we're doing a great job.
Now it's been over a year, butwe just took a leap of faith and

(34:46):
that's really what it was.
We just got that nudge because,you know, we just saw what it
did for Luke, we saw what it didfor some of the veterans when
we were out there at Newport.
I experienced what I felt andso we just had to start down
this path and MERT isn't, youknow, not solely what we focus
on and Marshall will get moreinto that but we knew we had to

(35:09):
do something to just try tobring people back.
Give back, yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
God bless you.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
It's about like service for us, because so many
people did so much to hold us upduring that time and now that
we're in a position where we cando that for others like that's
what it's about.
So we, most of the clinics, arejust MERT, and MERT does
amazing things.
Like I'm evangelical about it.
It gave me my son back and itgave me the best version of my
husband back.

(35:37):
I mean, I would have been withhim even that.
I was with him even at hisworst version and I would have
stayed through all of it ifthat's the way that it continued
.
But since he's done MERT, he'sfully present in our
relationship again.
I feel like I don't have towalk on eggshells if we're
changing courses or anythinglike that.
It's just like I have a partnerin this again.
I have the partner that I hadin the beginning and our

(35:58):
relationship is better than it'sever been.
But when they said, do you guyswant to open your clinic?
And it's like a licenseagreement I was like we can do
whatever we want.
So we brought in a doctor who'sretired special operations.
We brought in a pediatricspecialist who's over 30 years
in pediatrics and we're gettingeverybody certified and fully up

(36:18):
to speed on what is beingcalled functional health.
But really it's like whatyou're saying, like the old
style health, like what isactually going on with this
person.
What is the root cause?
Not what the flow chart says togive for medication, but why?
Is it a heavy metal?
Is it a metabolic?
Is it a methylation?
Is it you got whacked in thehead?
Now your endocrine functionsoff and your testosterone is

(36:40):
tanked out and, by the way, likeif you're on HRT, it affects
other things.
So how can we get that backnaturally?
So we're running very nichelabs and we've been able to do a
lot of this in the way.
So we also do RTMS, which islike the umbrella version of of
MERT therapy.
You know, any stimulation isgood stimulation.
So we partner that withfunctional health and we see

(37:01):
even better results becausewe're really getting to the root
causes of what else isaffecting this person's
interdependent system whilethey're having this stuff.
So, like, if you have a mineralimbalance, you are going to
feel very bipolar, and if you gointo a doctor's office and you
tell them I'm feeling verybipolar, they're going to give
you a mood stabilizer.
If you come to us, we're goingto look at that mineral
imbalance and try to regulatesome of that stuff.

(37:22):
And our docs are great.
If pharmaceuticals arenecessary, they're going to give
them to them, but we're goingto look at the whole person and
really see.
We also have a nurse on staffnow that's doing ketamine
therapy IV infusion ketamine,which is great Like it allows
for more neuroplasticity and forpeople who are really good at
compartmentalizing it allowsthose walls to come down in a

(37:44):
way that they can handle itproperly.
We're adding hyperbaric oxygentherapy next month.
We also do a program that I'msuper proud of.
It's called the SPIN program,the Somatic Program for
Integrative Neurobalancing, andwe worked with this amazing
occupational therapist and it'sa three dayday-a-week OT program
, all billable to TRICARE.
So we do everything that we canunder TRICARE and VACCN.

(38:06):
It's a three-day-a-week programwhere we work on getting both
sides of the brain to talk toeach other.
We do primitive reflexintegration with cold lasers.
When you're really stressedyour primitive reflex system
goes out of whack.
You know the baby does the mororesponse that can come out of
whack in adults and we test thereflex system and with these
lasers two to three sessionsthose reflexes are back

(38:26):
integrated typically, whereas ifyou worked in just standard OT
with exercises.
It could take up to six monthsand another part of that program
.
We're also doing auditoryintegration therapy.
So you listen to speciallyrecorded music.
Then it hits at bands.
When you listen to music on theradio, you hear it at about 430
hertz.
The way this is recorded ondifferent bands it activates and

(38:46):
strengthens different parts ofthe brain and then we teach
people how to breathe.
I know, as a former cop I'm ashallow breather and it's like a
thing when our vagal system,our vagal nerve, gets all out of
funky, like we're shallowbreathers.
So we teach people againthrough a lot of different
biofeedback systems how todeeply breathe and exhale.

(39:07):
So we got to think of it likewe're, you know, because we are
excreting toxins from the body,we got to get that full
expansion of breath.
So those are some of theprograms we're running now and
then at the end of the year I'llbe on staff doing mental health
counseling.
Chris will be on it next year.
We talked at Bragg, I don'tknow, a few months ago, and the
Lord just shifted something inhis heart and he was like Marcia
, I want to be a counselor withyou and I was like, let's do it,

(39:27):
let's do this.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
I mean we need, I mean okay, so let's go back to
we covered a lot of ground here.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Does MERT stand for M-E-R-T?
It's Magnetic E-ResonanceTherapy, so it's Magnetic EEG
Guided Resonance Therapy.
So we start with an EEG.
We map the brain, which I thinkis so important for military
type people who need the map,because we can show you what
ideal looks like and we can showyou where we're at and we can
show you how we're going to kindof work to try to get there.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Okay, and then under that umbrella there's a bunch of
functional modalities thatyou're using to address issues
that can help brain.
Now, what I love hearing aboutthis is that you know, the
problem that we have with mostof the modalities is it doesn't
impact the brain.
Right, and from a physiological, a challenging perspective,

(40:18):
create a neuroplasticity, newneuronal growth, synaptic growth
, whatever we got to do torecover and you talked about
hemispheric, you knowcommunications which are broke
down under a lot of this, so Ithink this is from a repetitive
head impact perspective.
I mean, this is amazing, and soI guess one of my questions

(40:38):
would be if a veteran comes toyou, right, and what are you
using to look at their brainfrom a?
You know you got this DD-214.
And, by the way, I can give youthe SOCOM GBEV calculation.
I broke it down into an Excelspreadsheet that veterans can go
ahead and, just, you know,calculate themselves up, which
will be, you know other toolsthey can take to the VA when

(40:59):
they're claiming for disabilityand stuff like that.
But so when a veteran comes toyou, you know DD-214, tanker
artillery, special operationsguide, breacher, right, are you
doing any types of brain scansto go ahead and image the brain
to validate that there is damageDTI, fmri, anything like that.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
We are doing the EEG, so it's a QEEG.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
The QEEG.
Okay, yeah, that's another one.
Yep, yep, absolutely there aredistinct patterns.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
It's not a diagnostic tool but there are distinct
patterns.
With children on the autismspectrum we often see really
high delta wave and almost noalpha wave.
So, functionally, when I'mlooking at that I'm like wow,
their brain is operating likethey're asleep while they're
awake, so they're not gettingthat wave of fluid to wash away
the oxidative stress whilethey're sleeping at night, so
they're not getting the rest ofa regenerative sleep and they

(41:47):
also probably feel like they'rein a lucid dream.
With brainwave patterns thatway, with TDI we often see
competing alpha waves instead ofone synchronous alpha wave back
middle in front of the brain.
And then with PTSD we see hyperreactivity in theta and in beta
, which seems to be veryhallmark of that.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
What are you seeing for?
I mean, I guess from arepetitive impact perspective it
would be just brain damage.
I don't know.
What are you?
Are you attributing that?
Are you calling that TDI?
You know, from the same impact.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Yeah, we are, and I mean I think there's some other
factors in with that too that aswe delve into this, everybody's
talking about operator syndrome, but we also need to look at
the medical terminology for that, and we're talking a lot about
this in the neuropsychfellowship that I'm doing.
And that is cell the same, thecell danger response.
You know syndrome, so thesecells sense danger, so they're,
all you know, falling in on eachother with you know, all the

(42:41):
different dysfunctions that wesee in the cell Danger response
is very identical to what we seewith operator syndrome.
Say what the question was.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
I guess no, no, no, that's great.
I mean, it's just, you know,diagnosing that operator
syndrome.
I'm still kind of digging intothat, you know, as a you know.
I mean, I think operatorsyndrome is just as you said, a
whole bunch of you knowdifferent problems coming
together in one messed up humanbeing so that's what.
I wanted to say, becausethere's a new not a new thing on

(43:11):
this.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
But there's components to this that need to
be recognized and addressed inthis space.
So there's a fabulousresearcher.
He's a MD psychiatrist, hisname's Dr Bransfield, he's an
older gentleman.
He does this phenomenal lectureon vector-borne illness and how
that affects the brain right,and so he looks at places where

(43:32):
vector-borne illnesses are atthe highest rate and he
specifically pulls up this charton Afghanistan and how there's
25 prevalent.
Like everybody who goes thereis pretty much going to get
bitten and exposed to these 25.
And in the US we call it Lymedisease, but Lyme is like a
catch-all for all thesedifferent vector-borne illnesses

(43:53):
.
And so what he did was he wentthrough and he started testing
people who had zero empathy,rage cycles all the hallmarks of
what we see with PTSD and TBIand they had high levels of
vector borne illness.
He started treating vectorborne illness.
They started developing empathyagain, a lot of their rage went
away and things like that.

(44:13):
But these vector borne illnessescan cross the blood brain
barrier and have effect on theneurology.
Vector borne illnesses cancross the blood braid barrier
and have effect on the neurology.
So you partner these blastexposures with vector borne
illness and you have like pardon, it's like a shit storm right,
like you have all thesedifferent things, and that's why
we have like we're doing theMERT and we're doing the HBOT
and we're doing thestellaganglion blocks and we're

(44:33):
doing the ketamine, butsomething still feels off.
That's where we need to bringthe functional testing in to
like look at what is happeningon a cellular level and what
viruses or bacteria or parasitesare impacting that as well.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
How are you validating those?
So I want to talk about yourtests.
So we work with another thatwe're aware of another program,
dr Mark Gordon.
He has some very innovativetests.
Of course they're not coveredby insurance because he's
testing men for estrogen,because that's an indicator of
this right and and and he's not.
You know, we're working withhim on just building awareness

(45:09):
because, you know, optimizingbrain health we feel before,
before you can start, hbotketamine just just makes the
impact of those modalities much,much better.
So talk to us about the tests,very interested in what kind of
tests you're doing.
And then are you able to getinsurance coverage for those
tests?

Speaker 3 (45:29):
Yeah, so one of my favorite labs I can't believe
I'm in a place in my life whereI'm like my favorite lab is by a
company called Genova, andGenova does some of the most
niche cellular function panelsthat you can imagine and just so
happens they're in network withTricare now.
So anybody who comes throughthat's Tricare, we can get them

(45:50):
RTMS if they qualify for thedepression parts of that, and
then we typically do go aheadand put them in.
So we're looking at organicacids, we're looking at heavy
metal exposure, we're looking atmetabolics, we're looking at
methylation.
If you're interested inmethylation, it's one of those

(46:11):
things that you know.
It's like one of the twopillars of health, but you're
really not sure what it is andit's convoluted.
So I just wrote a book on it soI can hand it out.
We keep it in heavy stock here.
You can go on Amazon.
It's called A Quick Guide toMethylation.
Really breaks it down.
But it is one of those pillarsof health that we have to get
really get synced up.
There's a methylation mutationcalled COMPT and it's actually
called the warrior mutation andI would bet that most of you

(46:35):
special ops guys have thiswarrior mutation because you
don't feel alive, unless thingsfeel extreme and it affects the
way your dopamine breaks downand how your testosterone,
different things with yourhormones and things like that.
And if you, if the comp tmutation gets too out of whack
and you're not balancing thatwith the proper nutrients, it
can exacerbate all of theseother symptoms what if you get

(46:55):
that, uh, that, uh, mother effergene?

Speaker 1 (46:58):
I mean, does that?

Speaker 3 (47:00):
MTHFR is a part of the methylation cycle yes, and
70% of the population has it.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah, I got that gene deficiency so I got to take
folic acid or something likethat.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
But you know, like if you went to the doctor with a
lot of the symptoms that MTHFRcauses, they're going to say, oh
, here's this script and thatscript and that script, when, if
you really distill it down, youneed a methylated B vitamin
blend and you need to olympiatefolic acid, and then you're good
.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
That's crazy, yeah, but we're using Genova.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
We're using Alates and our doc is great about
getting some of the things weneed to look at covered through
LabCorp.
But we try for every veteranthat walks in the door.
We integrate functional healthlabs with MERT.
And I missed another thing OnWednesdays we do myofascial
release.
So if you haven't read Dude.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
I just came back.
I don't know if you know SueHeisman, the inventor of MELT,
the myofascial, the whole thing.
I just came back from aweek-long retreat.
My wife's one of the few Level5 instructors for melt in the
country, nice, and she's got anew vibrator thing.
It's amazing.

(48:09):
Instead of rollers and balls,this puppy man, I mean it jams
you.
If you need an introduction,look up the melt method.
It's a myofascial release andthe only reason I get excited is
that this is one of the fewthings in my life that's not
magic that it really works.
I haven't been to achiropractor in eight years.
You know like right now I'mfixing a knee problem with

(48:31):
rollers and stuff.
I mean, people are so unawareof the benefits of that from an
anatomical and a physiologicalresponse measure.
I mean, man, that is amazing.
That's good stuff.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
When you think of fascia, like they said, the
science was settled a few yearsago and it's inert tissue, it
does nothing.
But fascia encases everythingin your body and it's not inert
tissue, it's smart tissue.
It like sends the energysignals through your body and
now they find that it's rich andlike blank stem cells.
They can use it to regrow areasthat are damaged and things
like that.
But it also wraps tight, solike a sheet on a bed, if you

(49:06):
have damage somewhere it's goingto pull in one area and yank in
another and we have a lot ofchronic pain with trauma, a lot
of chronic pain cells.
If you haven't read or listenedto the Body Keeps Score, I
highly recommend it because painand trauma are closely linked
and that trauma settles in thebody and it settles in the
fascia.
So typically around week threewe see a trauma reemergence in

(49:29):
MERT and so we start them rightoff the bat.
If they're tricurrent, theycome in, or if they're an adult
and they come in, we try to getthem with our occupational
therapist so we can billdirectly to insurance every
Wednesday to start themyofascial release.
Because when we say traumareemergence, somebody thinks, oh
, you're sitting in a cornercrying.
That's not what it is.
It could be chronic pain in thebody.

(49:49):
It could be how that traumabecause we all experience trauma
differently, we store itdifferently and we walk through
it differently.
For me, when we opened thisclinic, I finally did MERT I
left law enforcement on aninjury and a PTSD diagnosis and
I would say, because I had aspecial operations husband and
because I had a special needschild, it was very easy to

(50:12):
self-isolate.
I didn't really need to go outa lot because I had these little
kids at home and I had a bubblewith like three friends.
I did work a lot in nonprofitand doing different things like
that, but I obviously my PTSDwas different than Chris's.
Like you know, I would walkinto a restaurant and I'd always
be watching everybody's handsand I knew that the most normal

(50:33):
looking person could just popoff in the you know like
something could go wrong and inthat situation they're crazy.
He's like this big, strong guy.
He's like looking for theimmediate threat and I'm like
everybody's, against the wall.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Looking at the door.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
Everybody's an immediate threat and I always
joke when I tell this story likeas a law enforcement officer in
a really fast paced likeviolent area is the same area I
grew up in.
Literally nobody ever called meto be like.
It's my birthday, would youlike a cupcake?
They all would call for theirworst possible moment.
They'd want you to end it howthey wanted ended expedient, and
they hated you the whole timefor being there.
So there's, you know, a lotthat comes with that in terms of

(51:13):
psychological conditioning.
So I did MERT when we firstopened cause, I wanted to be
authentic and be able to tellpeople how it felt for me and I
had that trauma reemergence atweek three and I kept thinking
like.
I kept thinking like nothing'sgoing to help me, like I feel.
My PTSD made me feel like therewere no highs and lows, that I

(51:34):
was kind of in the middle.
So I never felt really happyand I never felt really sad, but
I always kind of wavered inthere and then I was always in
service.
I have, you know, we have quitea few children and I have this
husband that was having allthese things, but we were
finally in a place in life whereI could try the MERT and try to
see what it would do.
And it was amazing because nowI feel beyond that, like I feel
highs and I can feel lows, and Ifeel fully engaged with my

(51:56):
family again.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Wow.
So how do you plan?
Can you get HBOT and ketaminecovered under TRICARE VA as well
, or is that still out of pocket?
I know that's a challenge for alot of vets.
Yeah, still a gangly in blockstoo.
Man, Nobody's covering thatexcept Task Force.
Dagger will help.
The Donovan and BanksFoundation will pay for still
SGBs for veterans too.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah, task Force Agri will help with the ketamine
here and HBOT is cash pay.
But you know we can super billand if you have one of the
conditions under it you canlikely get reimbursed.
We don't have it yet where it'son its way.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
No, no, super billing is great and you know, with
ketamine too, you know I'velooked at the business model for
a while.
The medicine costs nothing,right.
It's all about the overhead,right.
And if you need anybody to dialin man, I'm on my eighth
company.
So if you need any help withthe business side of that, let
me know.
I talk to people all the time.

(52:53):
I don't want any money but I'mvery interested in something
like this scaling, because youhave, you know, 80% of it
covered by insurance and weconstantly talk to veterans like
I know, people that havemortgaged their homes, you know,
to treat this right, to treattheir brain, because ketamine,
hbod, stellate, ganglion blocks,brain supplementation programs

(53:16):
are all the tests right, that'syou know that's.
You know $15,000 that they'reout of pocket because they can't
get it back.
Then all the psychedelics whichwe're seeing, you know huge
improvements with veterans outthere.
Psilocybin, ayahuasca theyhaven't done all of it.
You know to walk that walk Plus.
I needed it, man, I had my own.

(53:37):
You know TBI related crap, butyou know that's just another.
You're touching ketamine, soyou're looking at this
out-of-the-box approach to brainhealth that looks at you know a
lot of it.
I mean, who's looking at heavymetals for crying out loud.
I mean, that's amazingMethylation.
This is the first time I'mhearing anybody and I know this
space very well that's lookingat these other issues that could

(53:59):
be impacting our veterans.
Besides, you know, you knowhe'll just be the healing the
brain outside, you know, attheir expense or the typical.
You know, hey, here's a bag ofdrugs man, go, go, go, go wreck
your marriage.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Right, exactly All, by the grace of God.
Right Like that.
We've been able to bringtogether all these things that
we had to like piece togetherfor ourselves.
We're just trying to createsomething where, if we can't be
the resource for it here, we canlike look at a resource
something somewhere else.
I want to bring up somethingelse that nobody else is talking
about.
So many of you guys are on theCPAP machines, right, and they

(54:37):
say you have to be on the CPAPmachine.
You'll be on the CPAP machinefor the rest of your life, prove
your sleep quality.
We have a dentist here that werefer to that does a device
called the ALF device and youknow there's a whole book on
Pattinger's cats and they fedthese cats like basically
standard American diet for twogenerations and within two
generations they developedbreathing disorders and they
became infertile.
So this guy in NorthernVirginia and you can get these

(55:03):
other places they designed thisdevice.
It's called the ALF device andit naturally expands the upper
airway which causes the bottomjaw to come forward.
So it does two things it canhelp you prevent having to be on
a CPAP and it also tones thevagal response.
So if you're constantly infight or flight you just start

(55:25):
to feel kind of numb and youdon't know you're in fight or
flight anymore, it's just yournormal.
But when you tone that vagalresponse you see all these
people jumping in and out ofcold plunges.
They're probably Comp T mutated.
But also it's helping to tonethat vagal response Right.
So when they put the ALF devicein my mouth when I left law
enforcement I had to have all ofthis cut back and reset and I

(55:46):
had a breakthrough here and theydid some nice work on my face
and they redid my airway.
So when they did the CT of myface for this ALF device, my
airway was great but my PTSD wasstill kind of rocky.
So for two days I felt like Iwas having an out-of-body
experience.
It didn't hurt, but I couldn'tfocus on anything else except

(56:07):
for what was happening in mymouth.
It felt really weird.
So I was at this neuropsychconference and one of the
psychiatric nurse practitionerswas like, did you just get an
ALF device put in?
And I was like, yes, she goes.
Well, you must have had lowvagal tone because you're not
going to have it anymore.
And she was right.
It was like magic.
You know, after that my vagaltone, and I always say, like I

(56:28):
never wanted to get rid of thehypervigilance, Like I like it.
Well, I want to know what'sgoing on, but I did want to get
rid of the cortisol with it andbetween MERT and this ALF device
, that's gone.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
Yeah, that's, that's interesting, because I tell you
they put me on that CPAP.
Then they said I had, you know,blood pressure problems.
This is what all you know.
So they gave me some bloodpressure pills.
They didn't tell you, it messeswith Mr Happy.
And then you figure that outand I was like that's it, I'm
running five miles a day.
So I chucked those things awayand I started running and I got

(56:58):
off that.
But you know, nobody should beon a CPAP if they can get off it
.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
You know what I mean.
Those things are horrible.
What's important, though, isthat you're getting rich oxygen
to the brain at night whileyou're sleeping, and doing
something like an orthodonticappliance, like an ALF device or
something similar, opens thatairway enough so that you're
getting enough oxygen to thebrain at night so the brain can
do the repairing cycle that itneeds and wants to do while
you're sleeping.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
And that's an implant .

Speaker 3 (57:22):
It's not an implant, it's a wire device and it's
actually really comfortable.
If you don't have PTSD it'sprobably comfortable right from
the get-go.
But it like wraps around yourback and around your front and
it actually repositions the wayyour tongue sits in your mouth
so that you're like I'm verylike wide across here and I

(57:45):
always had good teeth before.
But it expands that upperairway, allows the jaw to come
forward and expands the airwayback here so that you can get
that oxygen rich environmentwithout a CPAP.
While you're sleeping at nightwe see Dr Bronson Bronson Family
Dentistry.
It's him and his dad are thedentists there.
They're very holistic dentists.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Lovely and you Do, you wear it at night.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
It never comes out All the time.
Oh, so they put it.
They pop it in and out everysix weeks, clean it, adjust it,
expand it a little bit more, butit's not uncomfortable, like
dentures, like braces, yeah.
Yeah, but it doesn't hurt likebraces, it doesn't cost like
braces.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Can you get a tricare cover if you've got a diagnosis
?
Well, I don't know if Tricaredoes dental, but they might.
No, tricare doesn't do dental,yeah, man, I mean, well, they'll
they if it's because it's notreally a dental problem, it's a,
it's a CPAP, right, and I'vegot five chins problem.
You know, I mean, I don't know,I just uh, that might be a

(58:38):
different way to put anotherthing on it.
But look, um, this, this isamazing.
Here's what I would like you todo, because, number one, I want
to know more about this, I wantto really dig into this,
because you know we're, and Iwould love to invite you to our
summit on repetitive braintrauma in September.
The third and fourth Love tohave you come down and maybe do

(58:59):
a presentation.
I think we have a 20-minuteslide open on this.
We have one day devoted todiagnosis and treatment, as we
spend half the day on vets, halfthe day on kids and athletes.
The next day is we are lookingfor innovation in the brain
treatment space, because youknow it's so dire.
So we'd like to extend thatinvitation, but let's wait for

(59:22):
Chris to come back on, becausehe keeps popping it out.
I don't know where he's atright now.
Sorry, let's wait for Chris tocome back on, cause he keeps
popping it out.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
I don't know where he's at right now.
He's sorry.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Let's wait for him to come back in, and then I would
love you guys to talk aboutyourselves right now.
What do you got going on next?
Where can people find you?
All right, if they havequestions about everything you
got going on.
I mean, what's Marsha and Chrisgot you know planned for the
next year so that you know bragabout yourself?

Speaker 3 (59:46):
How can they find you on social media, linkedin, all
that stuff that we all got to doand your clinic's in Virginia,
or is it going to be in NewHampshire?
Well, we are in NorthernVirginia now.
We've been here since 2016.
So the clinic is in NorthernVirginia.
We're in Ashburn.
So over the next year we'relooking at opening a second
location in Alexandria, doing alot of the things that we're

(01:00:09):
doing here.
So right outside of WashingtonDC, 15 minutes to every base and
Pentagon there really try tolike get into that community and
help these guys out.
I'm finishing my MSW, whichwould make me a clinical social
worker.
I'm doing a fellowship inpediatric neuropsych.
I plan on going right into myPhD in neuroscience and behavior
.
I'll be here doing it all.

(01:00:30):
During the time I'll be seeingreally specifically special
operations, families and firstresponders.
We're doing a lot of work onthe back end, trying to get
grants so that first responderscan get covered by some of these
therapy modalities as well.
You know there's a whole.
I have a brother who's afireman, who he really, like my

(01:00:50):
husband and my son, are my why,but he's right there behind them
.
You know there's a whole levelof toxin exposure that happens
there and repetitive editry.
We all shoot Chris and I shootChris shoots competition.
He's still a trainer.
You know he's doing thesecompetitions but he shoots in
enclosed ranges.
Now there's a whole bunchcoming out about, you know, the
low impact, high volume, right,and so we're working on

(01:01:12):
different things to help try tomitigate that.
Chris is writing a book on hisexperience with TBI and PTSD and
his recovery through that.
If he if his bandwidth wasn'tso bad today, he probably would
have talked more about thatjourney through that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Um, we'll just have to have you back on, man.
I mean, this has been anamazing conversation and um you
know number one, no, which Chriswas here.
I want to thank you both, uh,for your dedication to each
other.
Okay, um, god has challengedyou, you know, with a, you know
with a remarkable set ofcircumstances, and I'm sure
you've heard the termpost-traumatic growth, right,

(01:01:50):
ptsd, post-traumatic whatever.
I don't believe in that.
You know trauma stuff, right,and you guys have taken, you
know, a PTSD, a post-traumaticsyndrome moment, and turned it
into growth, into service forothers, which is, you know, the
Lord's highest calling, andthose that serve others have a
purpose, a good purpose, and Iwant to bless you both on that

(01:02:13):
journey and let you know thatwe're there for you.
This is, these are the kinds ofstories that I just, oh God, I
love to hear because of what itmeans to our veterans and what
it means to you, too, right,that both of you have been
through you know, you know, tbi,ptsd, found a way back, not to
mention, you know, you know,healed your child, yeah, into

(01:02:42):
you know, a solution that,honestly, I think the military
probably should look at adopting, because everything you're
talking about, even ketamine, isavailable, right, we're not
talking some of the otherpsychedelics, and even, you know
, mdma and psilocybin are notfar behind on being approved.
I don't believe.
I think they're coming.
Ayahuasca and Ibogaine is stilla bit out there, but there are

(01:03:03):
absolutely use cases for those.
Yeah, they're a little bitdeeper into the chain there, but
anyways, may the Lord bless youboth.
This is an amazing story.
I want to get this out andthank you both for your journey
and your dedication to ourservice members, first
responders and anything the MackParkman Foundation can do to

(01:03:25):
put the word out.
Let us know and we'll go ahead.
And, absolutely as a matter offact, we're having a massive
fundraiser at the Army-Navy gamein Baltimore for veterans'
mental health.
Would love to invite you tocome in.
We're having Fuel the Band asour opening act.
Yeah, it's going to be crazy,dude, it's going to be

(01:03:45):
absolutely insane, and we'd loveto have Chris and you there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Oh my gosh, we'd love that.
That'd be so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Yeah, dude, and guess what?
I'm going to turn you on to thelead singer, who needs to talk
to you, okay.
We're working with him right now.
But this is how the Lord works,man, so, and?
But this is how the Lord works,man.
So look, take care of eachother.
Keep that.
Get that clinic going, get thatsecond one.
I want to know all about it.
I could probably help you.
Maybe you know, I don't know.

(01:04:12):
You know, look out for someinvestment money.
You know there's people outthere in the space the Fox
grants just opened up.
You know there's a pretty good.
I can send you the link to that.
You're definitely, definitelyin the space for that.
And then our job is to any anyof the material you need to
focus and help on repetitivebrain trauma.
Please let us know, causethat's our focus is, you know,

(01:04:34):
identifying those veteranssuffering from that, getting
them diagnosed, validated, sendthem to the VA for disability
but, more importantly, get themtreatment that works, get them
off those drugs.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
So thank you so much.
Well, we're Brain TreatmentCenter Ashburn.
We're so happy to be here.
Thank you for this opportunity.
We appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Oh, a pleasure.
Well, thank you so much, chris.
I'm yelling at you becauseyou're out there somewhere.
Marcia, thank you so much Toour audience.
Another great show man.
What a great story To all ofyou.
Make sure you get on the website.
Download the book the only bookfor parents.
Had to write it in my grief.
Get it, it's free.
Become aware, become informed.

(01:05:09):
Download our app on the Googleand Apple store HeadSmart, the
best concussion app on themarket right now.
And don't forget our summit onrepetitive brain trauma,
september 3rd and 4th in Tampa.
The US SOCOM commander is goingto open for us.
Frank Larkin is speaking.
We've got an amazing lineup ofspeakers on repetitive blast

(01:05:30):
exposure, repetitive headimpacts and how to treat and
diagnose it.
Okay, remember to like us.
Pass it around on social media.
We're out there on X Facebook.
Get us as much exposure as youcan.
It helps all of us on this.
And remember, you got one melonand your kids only have one

(01:05:50):
melon.
Take care of it.
We'll see you soon.
God bless you all and we'll seeyou next time on Broken Brains
with Bruce Parker.
Take care you, thank you.

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