Fighter Pilot to Healing Advocate: Wiz Buckley on PTSD, Trauma & Psychedelics

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In this powerful episode of Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman, we dive deep into the mental and physical toll of repetitive brain trauma, particularly among fighter pilots and military veterans. Host Bruce Parkman sits down with former Navy fighter pilot and Wall Street entrepreneur, Matthew ‘Wiz’ Buckley, to explore his extraordinary journey—from soaring through the skies to battling PTSD, addiction, and personal loss.

🔹 The Hidden Cost of Service – Wiz shares his firsthand experience with repetitive brain injuries, the stigma around mental health in the military, and the struggles of transitioning to civilian life.
 🔹 A Radical Approach to Healing – Learn how psychedelic therapy, including Ibogaine, has helped Wiz and many others recover from trauma, addiction, and PTSD.
 🔹 A Mission to Save Lives – As the founder of the No Fallen Heroes Foundation, Wiz is now on a mission to prevent veteran suicide and redefine how we treat mental health in the veteran community.

This conversation is raw, eye-opening, and transformative—a must-listen for veterans, active-duty service members, mental health advocates, and anyone passionate about healing, resilience, and personal growth.

👉 Don’t miss this powerful episode! Subscribe, like, and share on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts to help spread awareness and save lives.

 

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Chapters

 

00:00 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma

02:57 The Life of a Fighter Pilot

06:04 The Stigma of Mental Health in Aviation

09:07 The Impact of Repetitive Head Injuries

11:55 The New York Times Article and Its Implications

15:00 The Military Industrial Complex and Mental Health

17:51 Personal Stories and the Reality of Trauma

21:08 Transitioning from Military to Civilian Life

32:32 The Weight of Loss and Compartmentalization

34:29 From Aviation to Wall Street: A Culture Shock

36:25 Turning Profit into Purpose: The Birth of a Foundation

37:51 Psychedelic Therapy: A Journey to Healing

39:42 Transformational Experiences: Reconnecting with Faith

41:04 No Fallen Heroes Foundation: A Mission to Save Lives

43:53 The Power of Healing: A New Perspective on Life

46:11 The Psychedelic Revolution: Changing Lives and Perspectives

49:07 Breaking the Cycle of Addiction: The Role of Ibogaine

51:35 The Transformative Power of Medicine

54:01 Lessons Learned: Healing and Helping Others

57:22 Advocacy and Change: The Fight for Veterans' Health

01:00:14 The Future of Healing: A Call to Action

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hey folks, welcome to another edition of Broken
Brains with your house, bruceParkman, sponsored by the Mack
Parkman Foundation, and on thispodcast we look at the issue of
repetitive brain trauma in theform of repetitive head impacts
from contact sports andrepetitive blast exposure.
For our military veterans, andfor pilots and people banging

(00:31):
around those little tiny boatsas well, these two issues right
now are the largest preventablecause of mental illness in this
country.
Yet both these issues RHI andRBE are poorly understood by our
medical, nursing, psychiatricaland suicide prevention
communities.
So we reach out to people thathave experienced the impacts of
these issues scientists,researchers, authors,

(00:54):
journalists, moms and dads likeme whose kids are no longer here
, to bring you the latest andupdated information, for you to
make an informed decision,because you are the only thing
that can help.
You're the only person that canhelp yourself and protect those
valuable children that arethere Today.
We have another amazing guest onthis show, matthew Wiz Buckley,

(01:15):
and if you haven't seen TomCruise, this guy's got Tom
Cruise learned from this dude.
Man here right now, man, he'sthe founder and president of the
no Fallen Heroes Foundation.
Man here right now, man.
He's the founder and presidentof the no Fallen Heroes
Foundation.
His call sign, wiz is a formerdecorated Navy fighter pilot and
the CEO for Top Gun Options LLCand Strike Fighter Financial
LLC in Boca Raton.
Wiz, I'm raising money rightnow for my company.

(01:36):
We need to talk.
From 1991 to 2006, wiz was ahighly decorated Navy aviator
with the United States Navyserving at multiple duty
stations worldwide.
He was an F-18 Hornet instructorand adversary pilot and flew
combat sorties over Iraq and wasawarded two strike and flight
air medals.
He graduated from the NavyFighter Weapons School Top Gun

(01:58):
Adversary Course and hascombined his unprecedented
experiences in the military andcorporate America to write three
books From Sea Level to SeaLevel, a Fighter Pilot's Journey
from the Front Lines to theFront Office, and COVID Crash,
from Panic to Profit, and hisbook Strength and Gratitude is
an international bestseller.
He's on the Advisory Board forHealing Reality Trust and hosts

(02:19):
the Max Afroburner podcast, along-form podcast covering a
wide range of topics, frompsychedelics to veteran issues
to politics and markets We'll beaddressing those two right here
for a while and the podcast isranked in the top 2.5% of 3.3
million in the world, which isman.
That's a feat we hope toachieve here, and
congratulations on your successWes.

(02:40):
Thank you so much for takingthe time out to join us on the
Broken Brains podcast today.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Bruce, I'm going to bring your average down if
anything, so be careful.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Hey, I'm an NCO man.
I was educated at the BostonPublic School System, so we know
how that's going to happen, manyou guys ran the military, so
thank you, thanks for runningthe military, so us officers
didn't screw it up too bad.
No, I appreciate it, sir.
You know I can't even imaginewhat it's like on your side of
the military working on thoseaircraft carriers and just all

(03:13):
those days at sea and just being, you know, just being alone.
You know, and there's a lot ofresearch coming out talking
about fighter pilot, fighterpilots and the impacts of
landing those jets on thosecarriers and takeoffs and how
that might be the equivalent ofrepetitive blast exposure on the
brains of fighter fighterpilots.

(03:33):
I don't know if you call themfighter jocks or whatever.
I've heard that term thrownaround, but I am not tossing
around without your approvalhere.
So tell us about that, uh,before you even dive into it,
because it just popped in mybrain and if I don't, if I don't
talk about it, I lose it.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, no, it's a great place to start, Bruce.
We actually were featured inthe New York Times Sunday
edition a couple of months ago.
It was front page aboutrepetitive injuries to fighter
pilots.
Bruce, if you went in yourdriveway and sat in your car and

(04:07):
a crane took you up to thesecond story and dropped you,
that's the equivalent force oflanding aboard an aircraft
carrier every time.
That force is never less, orelse you wouldn't land, you'd
miss.
There has to be about an 800,900 foot per minute rate of
descent.
Sometimes it's even greater.
I remember trying to get aboardthe boat in between Tasmania
and Australia in the Tasman Sea.
There was water coming over thebow of the aircraft carrier man

(04:29):
and I remember slamming intothe deck and I thought I
literally broke my back.
It was brutal.
So not only the landings aboarda ship are pretty brutal, but
the takeoffs.
You go from me sitting in thischair from zero to about 150 to
200 miles an hour in a secondsecond and a half.

(04:50):
So you know we're moving thebrains all over the place.
And then, not only that, we'repulling Gs.
I remember, you know, being ayoung 27-year-old kid from South
Jersey flying off the KittyHawk and doing a dog fight.
Just catapult shot, went up,pulled some Gs, slammed aboard

(05:12):
the carrier.
I'm sweating.
I remember walking in the readyroom and every squadron has a
flight surgeon and I remember myflight surgeon looking at me
and shaking his head and he'slike man.
You guys, you just don't wantto know what all of all of this
does to your bodies.
You know, 27 year old kid, I'mlike I don't give a shit.
Well, guess what?
Um, you know it does do a lotto our bodies, but unfortunately

(05:35):
, for decades aviators haven'tbeen able to speak out.
Because if you went to thatsame flight surgeon and said,
hey doc, you know something is alittle wrong with me, ok whiz,
you're not flying anymore untilwe figure that out.
So you actually, you know, asan aviator, you have to hide
anything that's wrong with you,either to your military flight

(05:55):
surgeon or your FAA doctor,because if you are honest,
you're done flying.
So it's a perverse system thatwe have.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
So the stigma that we have in special operations and
in law enforcement, againspeaking up again.
For you know, if you're feelingdown or you know you're
mentally ill, it's the same,it's still, it's pervasive in
the fighter flight, the fighterscommunity, oh God yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's so stupid because theflight surgeon would, of course,
get in front of the ready roomlike, hey, you know, if
anything's, you know you got aheadache or anything, you can
always come talk to me.
And we'd all laugh becausewe're like dude, you're the last
guy we're going to come andtalk to, which is you know it's.
It's sad technically becauseand of course, if you did, let's

(06:41):
say you're, you know, you'refeeling a little depressed.
And you went and talked to theflight surgeon like, hey, doc,
I'm feeling a little depressed,what's he going to do?
He's going to remove you fromflight status, which is probably
one of the only things keepingyou happy right now.
Right, so now you're going tobe even more depressed that you
know he or she's taking you off.
What you're doing.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
That's actually making you happy, happy.
So we gotta we gotta fix a lotof stuff.
Uh, that's going on and well,yeah, let's talk about those fix
in a second.
Like I was talking to one of mynavy seal buddies and you know,
and I can remember back inthose days, you crack off some
charges and you're just like,you're just eating a blast.
Like, yeah, you know, and hewas telling me one day he was
the range safety officer and youknow, and he's standing right
next to these guys shootingthese carlavs off, so he's
eating the equivalent ofeveryone he must have.
There must've been like 45shots.

(07:26):
He's like, you know, hecouldn't feel his fingers
anymore.
And he couldn't wait to get backthe next day, and, and I mean
so we, but that's because we'rekind of ignorant on this stuff
and and we think that you knowas men right.
And women nowadays that this isreally cool to be taking this
punishment.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Bruce, I forgot to mention something.
So, in addition to everythinglanding aboard the boat and
being a pilot, I was what'scalled an LSO, a landing signal
officer.
So when I wasn't flying, I wenton the back of the boat with a
set of little foamies and Iwould help my fellow aviators

(08:04):
land aboard the boat.
So if you've ever seen, youknow, the movie Maverick or Top
Gun, you see all the, you know18, 19 year old kids running
around on the flight deck.
They have the Mickey Mousehearing protection on right.
So not only do they have theMickey Mouse ears on, but they
have the foamies and even theysuffer hearing losses.
But as an LSO on the back ofthe boat, we only wore the
foamies because I had to be ableto hear the engines, I had to

(08:26):
be able to hear if the pilot wastaking off a little power or
adding some power.
So here I am standing on theback of the boat as an F-14
Tomcat comes by 20 feet awayfrom me in full afterburner.
So you know, you get out andyou tell the VA like, hey, I
have horrific tinnitus, I havehorrible hearing loss.

(08:47):
It's not service related, what,what, really?
Oh yeah.
So it's infuriating to me theVA, right.
So one day I went from being anF-18 fighter pilot with a top
secret SCI clearance to,literally the next day, being a
liar, right?
How can you go from having theabsolute highest trust that our

(09:10):
nation can award you to the nextday You're full of shit.
We don't believe you inanything.
Prove it.
I'm like whoa, I thought youguys trusted me.
Nope, yeah, it's a court case.
Now you got to prove everythingthat's wrong with you.
How about you start with?
We'll believe everything and ifwe find out you're lying,
you're going to jail.
I would have agreed to all ofthat.
It's such a.

(09:31):
The system's inverted.
It's.
We don't believe you inanything.
You got to prove everything.
No wonder these young kids gointo the parking lot and put a
bullet in their head.
It's like you don't believe me.
You used to believe me and youhad me do a bunch of crazy shit,
but now I'm a liar.
Okay, great Thanks.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
It's like Johnny Ramsey's, like I used to drive a
fucking tank.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
That's exactly right, man yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, I mean, and it is right you are, you get called
a liar and that's why theeducation is so important,
because I had to go educate theVA on RBE.
I had to go educate the VA onRBE, I had to come in.
I brought my MOS, all my yearsof being a Green Beret being
shot in the face.
You know, hey, I was in combat,whatever Right.
And then all they wanted to saysaid, do you got any scars?
And I said yeah, I can look atmy eyebrows, cause I played all

(10:26):
army rugby for eight years andeight, and he's like I got
broken orbital bones.
You know, like, wow you are.
They wanted to see scars.
So I was a liar until I couldprove that I actually had trauma
, because it's all inside herhead.
You're right, we need to trustour veterans more.
They're not there if they'vegot a, if they've got a
demonstrated history, like you,sir, right, I mean, how many
times did you launch off thosecharacters?

Speaker 2 (10:41):
hundreds of times 357 .
I almost I should know thenumber to the exact landing
because you probably rememberalmost all of them.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, hundreds of times, right.
So you count those like wecount parachute jumps, exactly,
yeah.
So you walk in there and yougot, especially the night ones.
Jesus, you know, I'm gonna tellyou one thing I'm, I'm a, I'm a
.
I'm a small boat coast guardcaptain.
How big does a wave have to beto go over the bow of an

(11:10):
aircraft carrier, bro I?

Speaker 2 (11:11):
mean I think they said they were 40 or 50 foot
waves in the tasman sea and theylet you fly.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Well, here's well, here was I mean combat.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
You know you don't have a choice, but you know and
you know what it was it was abeautiful day, it was sunny.
It wouldn't look like thisright.
And I remember waking up thatmorning on the boat and I think
our TV had fallen in ourstateroom and smashed.
I mean, walking to the readyroom to brief.
I'm saying to myself, I'm likethere's no way we're going to go
flying.
Sat in the brief, sat in thebrief, things are falling off

(11:46):
the ready room walls.
I'm like there's no way we'regoing to go flying.
The reason so you know we weleft the persian gulf and they
pulled the rods in the nuke toget us down to perth as quick as
possible, so the jets hadn'tflown for like a week or two and
then we went from perth over tohobart so the jets didn't fly.
So this day was supposed to bea maintenance day.
These were all broken aircraftthat needed experienced pilots
like me to get them up there tocheck out all the repairs.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Those are broken aircraft that they needed our
best pilots to go up there andprocess that.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, I mean when they guess what, when they
change out an engine or theflight controls they got to,
how's the only way to test it?
Get airborne right.
So I remember walking to the jetright, I got up on the flight
deck and you just it's literally, you know Titanic.
I'm like, oh my God man,there's no way we're going to go

(12:39):
fly Next minute.
I am attached to the catapultand I'm literally so.
You run up to full power, youwipe the flight controls out and
everything looks good and thenyou salute the catapult officer.
That lets the catapult officerknow WIS is ready to go flying.
But I remember doing all thatand saluting the catapult

(12:59):
officer as we went down and I'mlooking at a full tasman sea in
my windscreen, I rememberlooking at the catapult officer
and I'm shaking my head.
Then the guy gave me look likedude, I got it, I'm not gonna
shoot you right now, right.
And then the bow went up andall I saw was sky and he shot me

(13:21):
.
Right I'm so, I get airborne,I'm like I gotta land now.
I didn't care about themaintenance portion of the
flight I'm like I gotta landback aboard this thing and, bro,
I've never seen it my navalcareer.
When I came in the land, firstof all I was like, maybe midway
through the landing there'sabout 20 of us, like the first
10, I'm in the middle, the 10,it sounded like a Civil War

(13:44):
hospital man.
They were screaming and powerand wave off and I'm like, oh my
God, what's happening downthere?
And then I get into the landingpattern and I've never seen
this in my naval career.
Speaking of Titanic, as thestern went up, you could see the
back two screws of the KittyHawk.

(14:04):
No way, yep, I think it hadfour.
So the back two, you could seethe tips of the screws.
I'm like I've never seen that.
I think I got waved off on thefirst pass because I was just
out of cycle with the deck, andthen the second, one same thing.
But I, when I've landed thatlast one dude, I put that thing
on there.
And here's the plant.

(14:25):
It's not funny, but here's thefunny part.
Every one of the jets that gotairborne fixed the airborne
problem, that that made itrequire a maintenance flight,
and every one of us.
The jet was broken because ofhard landings so they had to put
all the jets in the hangar bayput them up on stilts and have
to inspect the landing gear.

(14:46):
So we fixed one thing and webroke them all for landings.
It was insane.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
I mean I've seen that aircraft carrier in San Diego
Harbor and that deck has got tobe, you know, 100, 150 feet off
the water.
Yeah, so to get those screwsout of the water.
I mean, dude, that's one ofthose.
I don't know if I really wantto do those moments.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, no, no, no, no as an old guy now, I would have
thrown my own mother in thecockpit to do it instead.
But as a young kid I'm like I'mat the top of the world, man,
I'm a maintenance pilot and thisis great.
But man, that was brutal, thatwas a hard landing and all those
jets broke.
It was, yeah, that that was oneof those.
You know.
I remember trying to taxi outand of course, you're at the

(15:32):
five month point in cruise andthe deck has what's called
non-skid on it.
It's like this you know thismaterial, that.
So the it's a non-skid, so youdon't skid, but at at the five
month point in cruise, man, fromlandings and all sorts of stuff
, that stuff's gone, so it'slike bare steel and you have oil
and hydraulic fluid.
So when you're taxiing, Iremember I you know on that day

(15:55):
the boat does this and I'm I'msliding towards the edge of the
boat and the directors are likeI had to come up on the power to
climb to taxi.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
It's not like you can steer those things either.
No, man.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
I've actually had the steering input in to turn that
way and just kept going that waybecause the tires ain't
gripping any of the non-skid.
It was brutal, it was somestupid shit going on, but I'm
here to tell about it.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Dude, that's all that counts, man.
Tell you the truth.
So tell me about this New YorkTimes article, because that's
kind of you know, that was kindof you know, creating a lot of
this whole repetitive headimpact, repetitive brain trauma
issues, what you know.
We're kind of calling it nowbecause it encompasses so many
different forms of repetitivehead injuries.
Correct, you know, causing somestink.
I mean, just you know a littlebit.

(16:45):
You know we know about.
You know the mental illnessrates, maybe just the suicide
rates, and I know the military'slooked at.
You know the.
You know we know thatartillerymen, tankers.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
EOD right.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
But our aviators, you know helicopters, kind of a
softer landing.
There been in them a wholebunch of times.
So are you, you see, an likewhat you would say is an
elevated you know uh, incidentsof mental illness you know
amongst uh fighter pilots thatcould be related to this,
because obviously that article Ithink it even pointed at
suicides.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
No, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I'll, I gotta get my
.
Take my hat off to the helodudes and and the helo ladies.
It ain't flying a fighter jetand pulling Gs man.
You've been on helos, theengine and the motors and the
vibration for hours at a timeand they might be sitting on the
cushion, but that ain't noairline seat and it can't be too
cushioned in case you catch aroundup through your ass, type

(17:40):
of thing.
So the helo babas are alsohaving some repetitive stress
injury, just really the constantshaking.
Your body's not designed toconstantly vibrate for hours on
end, never even the helo folks.
Uh, we, we've helped a lot ofblack hawk and a lot of helo.
Bubba's heel too, man, becausethey they're in it.
But um, to your point about thenew york times article.

(18:02):
Um, you know, obviously.
Then of course I, you know, Imake fun of the Air Force.
They're barely on our side.
They don't have the landing,you know, board of boat issues
or catapult shots.
But it's also the pulling jeans.
I would fight the jet on theedge of consciousness, right on

(18:25):
the edge of consciousness, rightwhen I come into the merge with
another hornet or any fighteraircraft that I'm dog fighting
man.
I pull to the limit of theaircraft and the blood is
pulling out of your head.
Man, that's how people it'scalled G-lock, g-loss of
consciousness.
So you got to squeeze your legsand your abs and then obviously
we're wearing what we call a Gsuit.
It's like some metrosexual dudein Miami.

(18:47):
It's like the tightest skinnyjeans you know.
And then they inflate and theysqueeze your legs to give you
about a half a G to maybe a fullG of protection.
So I would actually fight thejet on the edge of consciousness
.
If you've ever passed outbefore, the first thing you
notice to go is what you startgetting tunnel vision, it's
called gray out Scoop schoolcrossovers.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
I know exactly what that looks like.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
That's exactly right and it's interesting because as
you gray out, you can still hearthe radio, you still know
you're flying, but your visionis the first thing to go if
you're going to pass out.
It's like your critical bodilyfunctions are like let's get rid
of vision first and try andkeep at least a heartbeat.
So fighting the jet on the, youknow I pulled a gray and then

(19:34):
get an advantage I unload alittle bit to get the blood in
my head so I could see againwhen is he Okay, there's the bad
guy and get on the G again.
So you're you're literallyfighting on the edge of
consciousness.
That can't.
I didn't go to med school.
But there's no way on God'sgreen earth that's healthy.
The human body is not designedto fight on the edge of

(19:55):
consciousness repeatedly.
And once a year we had you'veprobably seen it in the movies
once a year we go to acentrifuge training.
They put you in a capsule andthey spin you man to do up to
nine Gs.
So if on a good day I weigh 200pounds, that's 1800 pounds of
force, and after that when I gohome, my, my, you know Susie, my

(20:19):
wife's, like you, have old manass because, and underneath my
arms, all, all the blood vessels, the capillaries, would burst.
We call them g measles.
So underneath your arms andyour legs and your ass, where
all the blood got pulled to, allthe blood vessels would burst.
So the new york times was likehey, for all, the top gun,

(20:39):
maverick poster, recruitingposter stuff, these fighter
pilots actually go.
You know it ain't all sunshine,unicorn and lollipops.
They're in it and they'reputting us through it.
But it's interesting.
The New York Times interviewed,you know, our chief medical
officer.
She flew Tomcats and she's thechief medical officer of our
foundation after sitting withpsychedelics.

(21:01):
And then also another one ofour grant recipients who was
also a tomcat backseater.
They didn't interview a pilot.
Now they could have interviewed, or they did interview me.
My quote didn't make it inthere and here's why the vast
majority of fighter pilots, whenyou leave the military, where
do you go?
go to the airlines and guesswhat when you get your FAA

(21:25):
physical?
Have you ever had PTSDdepression?
Do you have any head trauma?
Nope.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Nope, nope, nope, nope.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Nope, nope.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Just like you answer yes to any of those.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, you answer yes to any of those and you will not
be an airline pilot.
You won't have a career.
So there aren't too many pilotsrunning around out there saying
, hey, this happened, I can'tRight saying, hey, this happened
, I can't.
My first and last day at workin American Airlines was 9-11.
So I ended up going to WallStreet instead.
But years later I got back intoflying.

(21:56):
I bought my own fighter jet forour foundation to help raise
money.
So I can talk about this.
I don't give a shit if the FAAcomes after me, because I'm not
going to lose my airline career.
I was not designed to sit infront of pressurized aluminum
for eight hours a day.
I can't say I'm not going tolose my airline career.
I was not designed to sit infront of pressurized aluminum
for eight hours a day.
I can't say I'm glad 9-11happened.
That sounds weird, buteverything happened for a reason

(22:16):
.
I'm not designed to be anairline pilot.
So that New York Times articlereally turned the lights on in
the kitchen to fighter aviationand a lot of the stress involved
.
In 15 years of flying fighters,I lost 16 brothers Also in
mishaps.
Bad weather, stupidity,mechanical failure, all sorts of

(22:41):
issues.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Not one.
Combat Accidents, accidents,training actions, combat, hold
on, we don't call them accidents.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right, they were mishaps, because there's no such
thing as an aviation accident.
None of that is by accidents.
We always use the term mishap.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Okay, we don't have training mishaps in the Army, we
have training accidents.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Oh, you call them accidents.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Oh yeah, we call them training accidents right.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
But in addition to the 16 buddies I lost in cockpit
issues I lost in in cockpitissues I lost three F-18
brothers to suicide, including agroomsman in my wedding, one of
one of my best friends.
He was a Marine Hornet pilot.
You obviously can't go back intime and debrief, dude, why'd
you kill yourself?
But you know a lot of the thethree guys that were buddies of

(23:25):
mine that aren't here any longer.
It all had to do with flying,in my opinion.
So I can never.
You know, I meditate and stufflike that, but I can never sit
in silence In this interview.
Tonight when I go to bed untilmy last breath I have a horrific
high-pitched squeal for therest of my life and it's

(23:47):
maddening at some times.
The medicine work that I'vedone helps me deal with it, but
I could tell if I was not ahealed individual with the
psychedelics I've done, I mightnot be here.
And then debilitating backissues, man, thank God, knock on
wood, that hasn't crept up onme yet, but I have brothers and

(24:09):
sisters who are just hunchedover man pulling nine g's for
decades.
You know you lose your height,so that can't be healthy either.
Um, so I'm thankful that we'rewe're starting to turn the
lights on to some of these, uh,other other veterans issues,
because I'll be honest with you,man, you're an operator.

(24:33):
When I went to go heal withMarcus Luttrell and JT Jared
Taylor from Black Rifle, Iremember going I'm embarrassed I
was up at 30,000 feet in airconditioning.
You guys are at three feet.
My trauma is a joke compared toyours.
And then you know I've learnedto not trauma shame or trauma
grade.
As veterans.

(24:53):
We're awful at this, right yeah, if something's hurting you,
something's hurting you, traumais trauma and you deserve to
heal.
Don't compare your trauma toanybody else's, man, we do that
as vets and we're bad about it.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
So I'm glad that the aviation side of the house is
getting a little love too, andyou know, and I think it's
unfortunate that right now we'rejust starting to recognize this
as an issue.
So when I got involved withbrain trauma if my son took his
life and I learned about RHI,then it started.
You know, I started looking atblast exposure.
I'm like, well, who's pickingthis one up?

(25:28):
I mean, who?
What are we doing?
And it just kind of appalls methat we have studied TBI.
We've spent hundreds ofmillions of dollars studying TBI
.
Well, tbi is not the TBI.
You know, it's an event.
It's like one hard landing.
Did you get hurt?
We can heal you, as long as youdon't keep hard landings and
pulling jeeps right, correct,when that becomes a lifestyle
and you've got something likecustomer exposure.

(25:50):
Why the hell, as we, as we gotthe VA, we've got the military,
we've got researchers, cdc, nihyou name your foundation that
are all research and all thisstuff, correct?
How have we overlooked thisissue?
Why, now, right, and we stillgot to go back to the tens of
thousands of pilots that haveflown and done your job, all the

(26:10):
operators, all the tankers, allthe artillery.
We have so much tragedy thathas occurred as a result of this
oversight and for a long time.
We just didn't know.
I got there, I don't, I don'tcare, we got.
Now we know, we know this is anissue, we We'll talk about
fixing it.
But why do you think this, justyou know, has not been a focus?
I mean, we fought two wars.
You know, we've had thousandsof kids.

(26:32):
We got 100,000 Maine kids outthere, we got 9,000 dead and we
lose 9,000 more, 8,000 to 9,000more a year, because of suicide.
This is part of that, so whyaren't we more on it?

Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know like you know, like you know, just that,
just well, bruce, you're notgoing to like the answer.
You know the answer since,since you've been in it, it's
the mick man, the militaryindustrial complex.
Uh, you know, when I saw threefour months ago that tom cruise
is side on side on to do top gunthree, I'm like, oh great, does
he get out and he has to fightthe va because they're not

(27:06):
denying all his claims?

Speaker 1 (27:08):
hey, hey, be careful.
St Petersburg's, where allthose guys live up here, man,
yeah, exactly so.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Maverick faces his toughest enemy, the VA.
You know.
Part three.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
It's the truth, it is .

Speaker 2 (27:22):
You're not going to.
You know the Pentagon loves theParamount Studios and Maverick,
the military industrial complexloves great recruiting videos
and stuff like that.
They ain't going to show any ofthis stuff, period they.
You know the military can do anincredible job training you and
I to do some awful things toanother human being, but when

(27:44):
they're done with us, they spitus out and they do a pretty
shitty job of turning us backinto being a human.
So I'd like to believe thingsare getting better, but they're
still paying lip service to itbeing better.
There's still no radicalchanges.
I would love to believe thePresident Trump is ain't going

(28:05):
to be any more foreign wars oranything like that, which would
be awesome.
Last time I checked, the onlyduty of a military is to protect
the homeland, and the borderhas been open for four years, so
finally, our military is beingused to protect the country.
So I'm I'm getting there withbeing a little hopeful, but I'm

(28:27):
just not fully there yet.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
It's, it's looking back to.
I mean, you think of all thekids that are no longer here.
You know, we're estimatingbetween 130,000, 140,000
suicides since 9-11, right?
Yep?
Then we have all the otherissues that really are suicides,
but in our county you got, youknow, death by alcohol, drug
overdoses, correct, all thestuff that's out there, and

(28:50):
we're looking at a long line ofcars that still needs to be
addressed.
I mean, these kids and yourself, sir, did nothing wrong.
We signed a line, we did ourjobs, and now all we want is
we're not looking even for money, right?
It's all about look, just takecare of me and take care of me
properly.
Don't give me drugs that of meand take care of me properly.
Don't give me drugs, numb meand have black box warnings and

(29:12):
give me talk therapy thatdoesn't work and that's all your
.
You know, we just had a gueston the podcast.
She went to the VA for aprocess.
They said no drugs and therapy.
Those are our protocols back toyour military.
I call it the pharmaceuticalindustrial complex when it comes
to mental illness, because theyare all in this box.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, I agree, I, you know it's, it's.
It was interesting because Isaw yesterday that the, the
Pentagon, has hit and hit therecruiting numbers for the first
time in five years and I wonderwhy.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
because of the new commander in chief.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
But I got to tell you , for the past four years, five
years or so, I didn't know asingle.
I know hundreds, if notthousands, of veterans.
I don't know a single vet whowanted their kids to serve.
I got two boys, man.
They grew up coming into theirdad's fighter squadron in their
little flight suit that theirmom made them wear.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
And they wanted to.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
I steered both of them away from serving.
Now my oldest re-boomeranged inand said Dad, nope, I want to
fly fighter jets.
I'm like, I love you, son.
You can do it every one, but Itried to steer too.
My middle boy listened to meand he's at the University of
Colorado in Boulder.
But the number one source ofrecruitment for the United

(30:27):
States military for the longesttime has been you and I,
veterans.
When you lose us, when youbreak your promises to help us
when we're done, we're going tobad mouth.
The hell out of you to kingdomcome.
Take good care of us and yourrecruiting numbers will go
through the roof.
This ain't hard right, thisisn't rocket surgery?

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And you know a lot of thethings that the veterans do is
like the kids look at us like weknow that most of us came from
nothing.
If it wasn't for the military,I know I personally would not be
in the situation that I amwithout.
Even with the unfortunate lossof my son, it was the military
that allowed me to startcompanies and do my thing.
But that's what gets into ourkids Like man, dad got here.

(31:10):
And if I don't want to go tocollege, you know.
So I do have a lot of friendswhose kids are serving, even
under the last administration,and fortunately they weren't
placed too much at risk givenwhat happened.
So I mean, so talk about thetransition.
You come out of the Navy,kick-ass fighter pilot, you know
top gun guy and then bam, youknow what.

(31:31):
What happened betweenretirement and you know the
foundation?
What were the next steps youtook in your life?

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Well, so there's a lot of bams.
Right To your point, you knowmost people that joined the
military, they're not DonaldTrump's kids.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
They're not, you know , george Sor soros's kids rich
kids aren't going into themilitary right the affluent, if
anything, stealing their kidsaway from service above self
right.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
So you know I was.
I was born in south jersey,south philadelphia, uh, one of
six kids, typical irish catholicfamily.
And uh, unfortunately, I wassexually abused as a child.
Then I lost a?
Uh, my middle sister, monica,to a drunk driver when she was
19, which, uh, was just a, itwas a hand grenade in in the

(32:16):
middle of our family andtechnically I lost my parents.
That day too.
They were just my dad was done.
Um, so why do I bring this up?
Because I took that.
You know, when you go in themilitary you don't take off your
childhood trauma.
If anything, you hide it.
And then, as we talked aboutearlier, 15, you know buddies,
16 buddies in 15 years and thenthree suicides.

(32:38):
So I've been, and in aviation,just like the folks on the
ground, we're taught tocompartmentalize.
Right, if you and I are flyingon a mission and you get smoked,
I can't mourn Bruce right now.
Man, I got a mission to do, Igot to press, or I'm going to
get killed too.
I'll mourn him later.
Well, guess what happens?
You don't get to mourn youlater there's another mission

(33:00):
and there's another loss.
So all those compartments weretaught to compartmentalize, end
up, building up, building up andthen one day, like a jack in
the box, all of them spring outon you and it could be something
really bad.
So I left.
I just mentioned briefly losingmy job at American Airlines on

(33:20):
9-11.
So I went to Wall Street.
So I was flying F-18s for thereserves out of Naval Air
Station, fort Worth and I washelping to run a trading firm up
in Chicago.
So when you go from a fightersquadron where you trust the men
and women in that squadron withyour life, or they're just not

(33:42):
in that organization anymore toWall Street, where I couldn't
trust a guy to watch my walletfor five minutes when I went to
take a leak, so talk about aculture shift, right, you know
the the some of these peoplewould push their own mother in
front of a bus for a buck.
I mean, I it was disgusting, itis.

(34:03):
But so that led to some booze,that led to some drugs and that
led to me just spiral in thedrain, man, and it was just some
very, very dark nights of thesoul.
Um, so in 2020, you know, godtakes care of fools, drunks and
sailors.
So you know, bases loaded forwhiz.
Um, I had a buddy in the whitehouse.

(34:25):
He was a military aide and andthis is December of 19.
He gave me a heads up.
He's like bro, pentagon isgoing apeshit.
There's a level four weapons.
The only level four weaponsfacility in a whole country of
China is in a city called Wuhan.
They are digging up thehighways, they're building

(34:47):
mobile crematoriums, somethinggot out of a lab and they're
going ape shit and it's going tospread around the world.
So I didn't do insider trading,I did outsider trading.
I told everybody who wouldlisten I bring that up because
that's one of the books I wrote.
It was called COVID Crash fromPanic to Profit.

(35:08):
So there was a couple ofsenators who heard the same
things I did.
And what did they do?
They went out to microphonesand said everybody, relax,
remain calm, it's not cominghere.
And then got on their phone andcalled their broker and told
them to get out and told theirfriends Right, and.
But of course the governmentinvestigated that and said well,
no, we won't charge them withinsider trading.

(35:31):
That's the definition of it.
But anyway, I did outsidertrading.
Why am I bringing this up?
Because remember the smartmoney.
Oh, this is the bottom.
I'd be a buyer of stocks here,donald Trump.
A week into it.
I have a screenshot of thetweet.
He deleted it.
Stocks are looking good here.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
I'd be a buyer of stocks.
The next day the.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Dow went down 3,000 points.
I made 75 grand on a couple ofputs in like minutes.
I bring this up because I thinkwe made like two and a half
million bucks in like a week oftrading, think we made like two
and a half million bucks in likea week of trading.
And I bring that up because,you know, my old man was like
you know, matthew, you can'ttake it with you, right?

(36:15):
You know you're not a Pharaoh,they're not putting this stuff
in your casket, right?
Um, pharaoh, yeah, so, and youknow and I'm not wanting to
quote scripture too often,clearly, but you know it's
easier for a camel to passthrough the eye of a needle than
a wretch man enter the kingdomof heaven.
And that was right around thetime that my buddy Swede checked

(36:36):
out.
So I looked at my bride and Isaid you know what, susie, let's
take this money and start afoundation to try and end
veteran suicide, because youknow I don't want to lose any
more buddies.
But how do you?
You know I don't want to loseany more buddies, but how do you
?
You know, at the time we lookedat each other.
We're like how do you keep aveteran from killing themselves?
I mean, help them pay the rent,buy a suit, write a resume.

(37:06):
You know we're throwing stuffat the wall.
And then that's when a buddy ofmine reached out to me and he
said hey, there's a group ofNavy SEALs and special forces
guys who go down to Mexico andthey do psychedelic assisted
therapy to heal their traumasand there's a really cool group
going in a couple of weeks.
Would you want to go?
And I said, man, go to Mexicoand do drugs with Navy SEALs.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Sign me up, man.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Let's fucking go.
I had no idea what I was in foror what was about to unfold,
but thank God that it did and Ilove you talking about that.
So here was my group man,marcus Luttrell obviously the

(37:57):
lone survivor, one of his teamguys.
His name's JJ Jared Taylor.
He was a JTAC, you know, runsBlack Rifle Coffee now.
And then the last guy in ourgroup, his name's Robert Gallery
, all-american from Iowa, justgot into the uh college football
hall of fame, uh, last year andthen played for the uh raiders
for six, seven years.
And this guy and I know you theyonly know if you had cte after

(38:22):
you die and they open your head.
Up, this guy, we so y'all meet.
You meet in san diego and thenyou kind of convoy down to the
clinic.
Why?
Because if you do what I'mabout to tell you in San Diego,
you're a criminal, you're afelon.
If you do it an hour south,it'll save and change your life.
Now let that sink in.

(38:42):
But I was in the car with Robert.
I remember sitting in thebackseat next to this six foot
five, 350 pound dead human being.
He looked like a gray iceberg.
Let me fast forward.
A year later I'm at afundraiser in San Diego and this

(39:03):
massive thing bumps into me,I'm like, oh my God, I'm going
to get my ass kicked.
What's going on?
It was Robert.
He's a different human being,completely different human being
, starting or has started hisown foundation to get ibogaine

(39:24):
and psychedelic assisted therapyto his nfl brothers and
brothers and and other athletesin other sports.
Um, because he, he was in a badplace.
And then, obviously, the sealguys I would were with had the
concussion and the and the andthe tbi.
Um, but man, it was without.
Uh, the most profound andtransformational experience of

(39:47):
my 52 years at the time.
Uh, it was not fun, it was notrecreational.
Uh, it was.
You know I've landed in themiddle of the Pacific at night
on a boat, low on fuel and badweather.
That was enjoyable.
That was a cakewalk compared tothis experience, 12 to 14 hour

(40:12):
in it, but man, it literally itsaved and changed my life.
I got to experience my sisteragain, I reconnected with.
I lost my faith for decades.
Got to experience my sisteragain, I reconnected with.
I lost my faith for decades.
What type of God has?
Lets me be molested, kills mysister, kills my buddies?
There ain't no God man.
I was wrong.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Give him a chance to talk to you, man, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
I was on my knees in tears and he lifted me up and
said Matthew, get up, I don'tmake imperfect things.
Let me take all this trauma,Let me take all the shame and
regret and drugs and alcohol.
That's gone.
And literally it was with awave of a hand and he said let
me show you the good you can do.
And I've just, I've neverlooked back.

(40:58):
We got home.
I got home and I said, Susie,this is how we're going to end
veteran suicide.
So the no Fallen HeroesFoundation is we give grants to
veterans, first responders andtheir families to sit with the
medicine.
So why first responders?
Well, as you know, a lot ofguys and gals leave the military
and when they take off thatuniform, they don't take off the

(41:18):
trauma and they go home andthey throw on a police officer,
a firefighter, they become afirst responder and they add to
their trauma.
Right, I had a Marine buddy, 20year Marine.
He's like dude.
My, my Marine trauma is a jokecompared to fire rescue.
He was a fire rescue guy inMiami.
He's like the things thatpeople do to a child and he's

(41:41):
like man.
So we help first firstresponders as well, and then
family members, gold star wives,spouses, moms and dads uh, they
serve too and they deserve toheal.
My wife, uh, is a saint.
She had to put up with my shit.
I I don't know how, you knowclearly she truly loves me

(42:03):
because I don't know how shedealt with me for this long.
But she, after I got home, youknow, and she's like, whoa, I'm
like get up, let's go.
Life is great, Everything'sgreat.
She's like well, yay for you.
So a couple months later shewent with some veteran wives, a
gold star wife and some otherteam wives, and she came home

(42:27):
and we've never been betterparents, humans or just you know
, it's been incredible.
Knock on wood, I think, ournumber I'm working on my 2024
annual debrief.
Wood, I think our number I'mworking on my 2024 annual
debrief.
I think we're close to aboutlet's just round up a hundred

(42:48):
folks, you know veterans, firstresponders and family members
that we've helped heal.
Knock on wood, man, Not asingle person has come home and
said complete waste of time orI'm worse, or sucked.
Every one.
People have gotten home and hadchallenges, right, because
you're going to get home a witha clean piece of paper.
You are, it's a control, altdelete.

(43:08):
God literally scrubs your yourshit and hands it back to you
like now go.
If you get home and you go backto old habits and and stupid
stuff, you're going to have achallenge.
I'm not one to use this term toolightly, but I was born again.
This is the second half of mylife.

(43:31):
The first half is in therearview mirror, with all its
pain and trauma, and now I am adifferent human being.
I still have my shitty days,but I'm not walking around
sunshine, unicorns and lollipopsall the time.
But my old whiz in a bad dayman, I was in it, and if I was

(43:52):
in it, everybody else was goingto be in it, and everybody else
was going to watch me drink abottle of vodka tonight and get
out of my way.
Me now, bad day, I get out ofme and I look at me and go dude,
sucks, Wake up, embrace thesuck.
It ain't forever.
You're going to pass through it, you know so.

(44:13):
It's a completely differentlife before the medicine and
after the medicine.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
So before we go to that because when I go on your
show I will definitely embracethe suck with you on a similar
experience, but got the the youknow you think of 100 veterans
and then you think of all thefamily members in a circle, out
of circle, the network of peoplethat they're going to impact
with their new self.
A month ago I was.

(44:41):
This will probably never happenagain, but they put 900 Green
Berets on a cruise ship and Igot- Did everybody live,
everybody lived and this boatsailed.
It made it back to port.
It was all good.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
I thought you guys would have turned into like
pirates or something and takenover the Red Sea.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
If I was still drinking that might've happened,
but we were good, we let it gosee if we were.
If I was still drinking, thatmight've happened, but we're,
we're good.
Well, we left, we let it go.
But anyways, I get this guy.
He used to work for me and Idid not know, um, how bad it got
for him.
And he's uh, his name's uh, patFlatley.
He's been on podcasts.
Very Pac-Man, that's mynickname.

(45:19):
Most people don't even know myname.
It's like we need some help.
I said, what's up?
Because he knows I've had somecompanies.
I got an SF captain with a ninemil in his mouth and I got to
get him to Mexico and I'm like,what do you need?
He says I need some money.
I said, all right, put me intouch.
So, dude, what's up with you?

(45:40):
He goes, bro, same story I amback.
I am back and I want ouraudience to understand this,
this psychedelic movement, whenwe are looking at a, you know, a
loss of 8,000, 9,000 veterans ayear because the VA still gives
them drugs and therapy.
They will not alter that.
And we have not only thismedicine.

(46:01):
We have ayahuasca, we havepsilocybin, we have MDMA, we
have NMEO5DT, bufo, whatever youwant to call it.
You know these drugs.
You call them drugs becausethey're not legal.
I don't care.
These medicines are savinglives, and I'm not saying just
saving lives.
They reforming, transforminglives.
And whiz's story I have heardthis over and over and over

(46:24):
again.
Yet, like he says, you go toamerica and do this um, then
then you're, you're a criminal.
But you got to go to mexico.
Now there is a new iboga churchthat just started in america
with the loophole now and Idon't know um, I got somebody
attending that um to see howthat might affect but the
transformation of individualslike Wiz.
You're not, you're not, it'snot like you're a criminal,

(46:45):
right, you haven't.
You know molested kids.
You're not a bad human being.
You're imperfect, like we allare, and it just shows you how
much we have to grow that, eventhough we're good people like
you take, you're a good provider, you're a good leader, you're a
good pilot, you're a good mofo,right, like that, we still,

(47:06):
when we get in these medicinesunder, need to understand.
You know, talk to the guysabout.
You know the, thetransformation, if you, if you
want to discuss it like you know, it's um, you know I.
I just want them to understandthe reach of these medicines and
how they take people, eventhough if you, you know, had
alcohol, sleep, you knowwhatever problems you did have,
and you come back and yourwife's looking at you like my
wife calls me Bruce 2.0, right,and it's so.

(47:29):
So I mean, just tell theaudience about you know just the
experience, if you go a littlebit deeper into it, if you could
, just so they understand howprofound these medicines are and
why they're impacting thesevets the way they are are and
why they're impacting these vetsthe way they are.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, and you know, let me share this with you I try
and go on every retreat that wedo, but you know, now we're
starting to just send peopleindividually so we don't have to
do like our own retreat type ofthing.
I bring that up because if Idon't go on a retreat or we're
sending people in onesies andtwosies, almost every time when
I'm not there I get a text fromthese people that say Wiz, I

(48:05):
don't want to kill myselfanymore, you can't put a dollar
amount, you can't put anythingamount on.
I screenshot those.
I have a folder.
I have a shitty day folder.
When I'm having one of thoseshitty days, I read all those
texts and emails that I get frompeople that says you saved my

(48:26):
life or I don't going to listen.
God's pretty smart, obviously.
God's like veterans, ain't?
Going to listen to some dudewearing a drug rug and mala

(48:48):
beads.
Right, You're out of there.
You know, smelling like weed.
We're not going to listen tothat.
We are going to listen to aNavy fighter pilot veteran, a
Navy SEAL or a spec ops operator, a gold star wife.
So you know, the firstpsychedelic revolution, timothy
O'Leary hey, let's put it in thewater probably freaked a lot of

(49:09):
people out and that was thewrong approach.
Right, they were fishing withhand grenades.
This psychedelic revolution isbeing led by veterans.
So if mom and pop walking downthe street look up to us, for
whatever reason, maybe that'swhen they start listening.
Like, wait a minute, these guysare, you know, anti-crime,

(49:30):
anti-drug, pro-america, wrappedthemselves in a flag and they're
doing this stuff.
Maybe I should listen, maybe Ishould sit up straight.
But you know, like we talkedabout a little bit earlier, I
was a drinker.
I don't know if you can be agood drinker, I wasn't, I was a
bad drinker.
And up to eight months, I'llsay a year, let's just round up

(49:51):
up to a year.
After sitting with Ibogaine once, if I looked at alcohol God
forbid, I smelled it, I woulddry heat, it made me physically
ill.
So ibogaine is an addictioninterrupter.
Heroin, alcohol, porn, caffeineyou name the addiction.

(50:11):
It will break it.
I didn't say, cure it, I saidit'll give you a reprieve.
That's why I say when you gethome, you got to put in the work
.
If you fall back into all theshit that was making you sick,
you get home, you got to put inthe work.
If you do, if you fall back inall the shit that was making you
sick, you're going to be in adog fight now and it's going to
suck.
But if you come home and youdon't do that stuff I mean there
was a study.
People can look it up 85percent of heroin addicts who

(50:36):
sat with ibogaine once up threeyears never looked at the stuff
again.
Why up to three years?
Because they stopped the study.
They're like, okay, if you doheroin after three years, it
wasn't the Ibogaine.
You were cured or something thatain't something else is going
on.
And these people in this studyI mean.

(50:57):
As you're probably well aware,one of the worst things about
heroin addiction is whatBreaking it, the shakes, the
vomit, it's just the sideeffects.
These people, after Ibogaine,came downstairs and had
breakfast, type of thing.
They're like wait a minute, Ihaven't eaten breakfast in a
decade and I'm not shaking andvomiting and needing a fix.

(51:18):
It destroyed it.
So it is literally thattransformative that a guy like
me now full transparency, guesswhat I can do now.
I can have a glass of wine withmy steak or my pasta, but it's
a glass, old whiz, a glass man abottle, probably two, maybe

(51:39):
even three.
Man a bottle, probably two,maybe even three.
So I control it now the olddays, man, it controlled me.
And then, like I said it, justliterally going to the airport
when I got home from Mexico, oryou know, we got into San Diego
from Mexico, just the airport, Iwas friendly, I said hi to
people, I the flight was delayed.

(52:01):
I'm like yay.
I'm like wait a minute, I'mhappy.
You know it was.
It was literally just a adifferent.
I remember talking to myselflike dude because people were
yelling at the gate agents.
I'm like I was nice to the gateagent, I got upgraded the first
class.
I'm like, oh my.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
God, he's like you were the first, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
He's like you're the first, you were the only nice
person to me today.
You want to sit first.
I'm like, oh my God, I probablywould have been one of the guys
yelling at that poor guy, right.
So it literally transformedeverything in my life a magic
pill, right, as we've talkedabout.
You got to get home and you gotto put in the work, but I will.

(52:42):
You know, one of the questionsI get asked the most is can it
be one and done?
The answer is yeah.
I know guys and gals that havedone the medicine once and are
great and never go back.
We do me and my originalmedicine brothers, and if we
can't all make it together, weat least do it on our own.
I do an annual knock the rustoff my, my, you know my vehicle

(53:06):
or you know my as an aviator.
I'll give you an aviationanalogy.
I get about an annual or ayear's worth of ice build up on
my wings.
I need to go de-ice or I'mgonna stall.
And it's so cool, uh, pac-man,because every every year I go
for an annual, uh, knock therust off.
I just learn more and more.

(53:27):
And it's interesting becausethe more medicine work I do, the
less medicine I actually do andyou know, five years ago, whiz,
if I heard me talk like this, Iwould have kicked my own ass.
But my guide reminds, remindsme she's like you are the
medicine.
Technically you don't need thisstuff, but radical trauma might
need radical healing.

(53:48):
So the more medicine work I do,I actually really don't even
need that much and I'm in it andhealing.
Let me share this with you thesecond time I about a year later
, I sat with the medicine.
It was tough.
The first time was flowingrobes, god healing me and stuff
like that.
The second time was prettychallenging and I will.

(54:10):
I'm as thankful, if not more,than my first time.
And here's why.
First of all, my guide said youknow, the next day I'm like man
, that was a.
That was a little bit morechallenging.
And she's like oh, I probablyshould have told you.
I'm like, told me what she'slike.
She said and I've been doingthis for decades Anybody I've
helped who does the medicine,again with the intention of

(54:33):
helping people.
The medicine shows youeverything.
She's like the first one, yougot your wings.
The second one, this time youwent to Top Gun, didn't you?
I'm like that's a great analogy.
I get this Because God wasstill loving and everything like
that.
And this was a really cool part, because that year the ice

(54:54):
buildup was my ego meaning this.
I thought I was failing.
I was helping vets and firstresponders and family members go
on retreats.
I was going on these retreatsand people weren't healing right
At least I thought that,because this is how I healed.
So I remember feeling kind ofshitty going into the medicine

(55:15):
the second time.
I'm like man, I'm a failure.
Let me go hit the medicineagain to see why I'm a failure.
Man, I'm a failure.
Let me go hit the medicineagain to see why I'm a failure
man.
God came to me and he was.
God clearly is always lovingand gentle and he was.
But it was kind of like youknow, son, what are you doing
here?
You know all of this stuff,what can I help you with?

(55:37):
I said God, I'm failing.
I'm trying to help these peopleheal and I'm just I'm letting
you down Very loving and veryfull of light and energy.
No-transcript, they have to healthemselves with me and that's

(55:58):
my job.
Buddy, keep doing what you'redoing.
Keep walking to the door,carrying them to the door, drag
them to the door.
They got to walk through sonand I was healed.
I felt that 100-pound backpackI carried for 12 months.
It just dropped to the ground.
I'm like, oh my God, it's sofunny because when you come out

(56:22):
of medicine it's this type oftransformational.
And then you're like, well duh,why didn't I know that Right,
but I clearly didn't Right.
So the medicine can kind of dowhat we call moto master, the
obvious sometimes.
But sometimes the obvious isnot so obvious because of our
ego.
I'm a fighter pilot, I'm this,I'm that and I'm helping people

(56:43):
heal.
Dude, you can't help anybodyheal man they have to do it
themselves, which was verytransformational.
So, even though I know that now, still working in this space is
tough, man, I haven't.
I was about to say I don't wantto wake up in the morning.
Of course I do, but when I wakeup in the morning, man,
sometimes I don't even want tolook at my phone, because every

(57:06):
grant request that comes intothe no Fallen Heroes, I haven't
read one that's full of shit,right.
I haven't read one that doesn'tmake me tear up or cry.
These people are hurting, theyneed help and I just feel so, so
futile sometimes, man.
You know the past week watchingthe bullshit in DC one point

(57:30):
five million dollars for transopera in Serbia.
I'm like what the fuck is goingon.
If our foundation had one.5million bucks I could clear half
my list, if not the entire.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
We're getting ready to talk to that because it
infuriates me.
I just wrote the con, thelegislation for congress.
Uh, congressman derek brandtorton has it right now that
great american.
He puts together.
It's put together a full pack,and I'm talking to morgan
latrell, marcus's brother, who'sthe head of the Brain Caucus.
I have put together ourfoundation.
We wrote the entire plan forawareness and education,

(58:05):
advocacy, diagnosis andtreatment to include billing
options and insurance coverage.
Good, and we're going to getthis funded.
Good on you, and our foundationis going to be part, because
you know it's going to be.
You know we have to the thecountry, the veterans, not me,
but the va needs to get out ofits box and they need to start
trusting folks like you with ademonstrated history.

(58:28):
So let me ask you one questioncorrect all the the veterans
that you've helped?
First responders off, what isthe rate of people that have
been through your experience?
That said, this has positivelyimpacted my life, not even
completely transformational, butthis has helped me get on the
path.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
I hate saying this, bro, but I'm going to say 100.
But you know, maybe I'll say99.9, because 100% is never
fully statistically accurate.
I again, nobody has said dude,I'm worse, this failed, this
sucked.
What a waste of time.
Not a single person.
So when I look at somethinglike what is it S-ketamine or

(59:08):
Spravato?
12% effective rate, I'm like,okay, 12% versus 100%.
But as you know, man, it's arevolving door between the VA
and big pharma.
You just alluded to it, man.
If you get an appointment 10months down the road and you get
in there and they say what'syour symptoms?
These things, here's the script.

(59:28):
Next, whoa, what about what'sinside?

Speaker 1 (59:32):
What's on?

Speaker 2 (59:33):
your script, dude.
What does this do to me, man?
That's exactly right.
So we helped a seal, a team guywho was on 15 meds, dude, hear
it all the time bro five to wakeup, five for lunch, five to go
to bed.
He hasn't taken a med in fouryears.
So if you're sitting in uh, youknow pfizer headquarters

(59:54):
listening to this podcast,you're're like oh shit.
So clearly and to your point,the new VA secretary seems like
a good dude.
Get out of your office, Getthese people out of their
cubicles, throw some hikingboots on and join me at a
retreat in Colorado.
Hold space.
Don't believe me, I'm full ofshit.

(01:00:16):
Assume I'm a liar liar.
Go on these retreats, holdspace, sit in ceremony and you
see it for yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
I can't stand this man damn drug and see what the
heck the medicine is, see whatthey love that to happen too,
but if, if anything, just holdspace.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Oh bro, if I tell people if I could kidnap putin
and zielinski and throw them ina room with iboga for a week, we
there would be no more war andpeople.
People think I'm full of shitand I'm not.
It's the truth.
There would be.
You know that.
That's one of the reasons thesemedicines are still illegal at
a federal level is because theycan turn warriors into

(01:00:55):
peacemakers.
I've seen it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
I've seen knuckle dragging yeah, I know, I just
got up, I had a uh meaning this.
Uh, we uh, god damn it, I hatemicrosoft office, so anyway, no.
So I mean, and here's the point, we're talking about va, that's
giving out drugs that have a 25possibility of impacting
somebody's life, and we'retalking to you saying we've got

(01:01:19):
99.9 percent people coming back.
And these, you know the peoplelike I've been helped with
ketamine, I've been helped withstellate ganglion blocks, I've
done the journey with ayahuascaseveral times.
You know, and I haven't.
I'm going out for uh, you knowa little bit of your medicine as
well, because I want to, I Iwant to walk the walk.
When I talk, I say this stuffworks, it's worked for me.

(01:01:41):
It's just that this whole issue, like you said, can be
addressed.
Ibogaine and Iboga addressesketamine, everything ketamine
stuff.
Ptsd, anxiety.
You're talking and I've seenthis with other plant medicines
like ayahuasca people that aresnorting heroin with guns in

(01:02:02):
their mouth, multiple suicideattempts.
I was with a marine who has,from uh tbi rice krispies in his
head.
You know at like, you know alevel eight, like your tinnitus
and the only thing that helpshim is plant medicine, and he's
got to fly himself, pay money toget this relief that he
incurred at the cost of servinghis country.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
It's infuriating man.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
It is absolutely infuriating and it must change,
and that's why having you onthis podcast and talking about
what you're doing is sounbelievable, man.
I mean, this is you know.
What you're doing right now,sir, is you're saving lives and,
yeah, you might feel likeyou're not saving nothing.
We all feel like that.
Every life that you have savedis a blessing from our Lord,

(01:02:47):
amen, and it's a blessing toyour foundation.
It's a blessing on youpersonally, sir.
You are delivering God's youare doing God's work.
Thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
You are doing God's work.
Thanks bro.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
I absolutely want to help you as much as I can.
It's all about money right.
When you do what we do in thisbusiness, which is help people,
it's all about cash bro.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Doesn't that suck man .
I joke with my wife because Ican't.
I'm like I'm fucking awesome ateverything except raising money
.
It's the worst thing I've everhad.
I can't.
That's why I'm glad I went outand bought my own fighter jet.
I'm like maybe I'll fly donorsin the backseat because I can't,

(01:03:25):
it's a skill set that I simplydon't have.
I assume that if people heardthis story, they'd be throwing
money out the windows to thefoundation.
Bro, it's insane.
I don't know how you do it.
I don't know how you crack thecode.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Well, we just alluded to it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Clearly you and I needed to live in Northern
Virginia or DC and make up somebullshit.
Help build clogs in IrelandFoundation, and we would have
been Politico.
Politico gets $8 million.
Are you insane?
So you and I are clearly doingit wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
We don't know the right people, but yeah, we're
working on now and I thinkbetween who you know and I know
and then all the other peoplewe're working with in this space
, this psychedelic space isrevolutionizing.
It is the only thing and I'lltell everybody in this podcast
here since 9-11, this is theonly area and whether you
include ketamine or not, or instelaganglian blocks, this is

(01:04:24):
the only thing helping ourveterans.
That's it.
That's in those electronictherapies, stimulation and H5,
stuff like that.
But when you start talkingabout end-of-life scenarios
where men and women are at thebrink of extinction and it's
going to cause all the sufferingfor their families, then this
is it.

(01:04:45):
The Ibogaine is absolutelythrough the roof with its
success rate on healing veteransand we have to fix this, we
have to address it.
And, wiz, you are all over thisspace and I am counting you as
a friend and I am counting you,as you know, and I am supporting
you 100% on this mission.
Man, I can't wait no more anduh, and we'll get that um

(01:05:06):
absolutely knocked out.
I cannot thank you for comingon this show sharing your story
with our audience and I thinkit's going to be an amazing
journey.
I know it's an amazing journeythat you're on and I cannot wait
to help you and see you succeedmore, sir, this is amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Pac-Man, thank you for having me.
My brother, your son, is livingthrough you and he's a good
wingman for all of us.
What do we say?
Lead, follower, get out of theway.
So thank you for leading,thanks for leading, I'll follow
you anywhere man I got you fromthe air and you got my, my air
support.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
We're on it, man.
Thank you so much, and uh anduh, we're going to have you back
on the show and I guess I'mcoming on yours here in a little
bit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Can't wait to talk.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
We are definitely going to share and, uh, I'll be
in Miami soon, so I'll make youa link up.
Folks.
Awesome Again.
Another awesome podcast.
Please do not.
Oh, oh wait, how do people findyou All right, so we always
close the show?
Sorry, I almost forgot.
Yeah, yeah, you know how dopeople find your foundation?
Where do they find your books?
Tell us all about you know,websites, URLs, whatever they

(01:06:07):
know to find the whiz, evenespecially if they're looking
for help.
And uh, and we can, we can helpyou give them some help too,
sir.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Yeah, man, nofallenheroescom.
That's step one.
Just go to NoFallenHeroescom Onthe top right on the dropdown.
If you're a veteran firstresponder, family member
interested in healing, it saysgrant request form or
application or intake form.
That's how you can get the ballrolling.
So NoFallenHeroescom,no-transcript kind of getting

(01:06:58):
shot at, bro.
I got to tell you that we'vehelped a lot of females and,
unfortunately, males, whoexperienced they weren't shot at
by their enemy.
You know what MST militarysexual trauma.
You expect the enemy to shootand try and hurt you.
You don't expect your squadronmate to do it.
So we're helping veterans thatdidn't even see the enemy to
shoot and try and hurt you.
You don't expect your squadronmate to do it.
So we're helping veterans thatdidn't even see the enemy,

(01:07:22):
except the enemy that was intheir own unit.
So, yeah, so go to YouTube, ourYouTube channel, and if you or
somebody you know wants to goflying in the backseat of a
fighter jet man, just make anice donation and we can go bend
the jet around the skies of uh,florida.
My only suggestion is you eat abanana for breakfast, because

(01:07:42):
it's the only food that's goingto taste the same, coming up as
it does going down and you gotto clean up your own you got to
clean up your own.
That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
It is well you're talking to a guy that's done a
lot in his life.
That's something I've neverdone, so I'm diving in on that
one man.
You got it, so yeah.
All right, my brother, thankyou so much, and we'll
definitely talk about the sexualtrauma piece when we come back
All right Pac-Man.
Thank you.
Thank you, wiz, can't thank youenough.
Folks, just to close, don'tremember, get your free book.

(01:08:12):
It's the only thing out therefor you parents to make form
decisions for your kids 130reference papers in there,
endorsed by everybody in the CTcommunity.
Go get it.
Download our free app on theGoogle Store, head smart, to
understand concussions,subcustum trauma and how to take
care of your kids.
We're holding a town hall forveterans on the issue of
repetitive blast exposure andthe trauma that Wiz and I just

(01:08:33):
discussed in Tampa.
That'll be live streamed March26th, the date we've invited.
Several politicians got to haveone open up, but it'll be three
hours of RBE, what to do to getyour diagnosis and how to go to
the VA.
We're going to do the same forNFL veterans and the second
international conference onrepetitive brain trauma will be
held, again hosted here in Tampa, the first week of September.

(01:08:56):
Stay tuned for the dates.
If you'd like to present, be apart of it, please let us know.
It'll be held at the newSpecial Forces Teamhouse here in
Tampa, florida.
So for all of you, wiz, onceagain, thank you so much.
Take care of yourselves, takecare of your children, but, more
importantly, take care ofyourselves so you can take care
of your children.
God bless you all and have agreat day.
See you on the next episode ofBroken Brains with Bruce Park.

(01:09:19):
Take care, thank you.