January 13, 2025 • 38 mins
In this heartfelt episode of Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman, host Bruce Parkman is joined by Jami Uretsky, a dedicated advocate for concussion awareness and education. Jami opens up about her personal journey as a mother navigating the aftermath of her daughter’s life-altering concussion sustained during a high school soccer game. The conversation dives deep into the complexities of concussion treatment, the gaps in parental and athlete education, and the challenges within the medical community when it comes to addressing brain health. Jami highlights the critical need for awareness about the risks of contact sports, the importance of proactive parental involvement, and the power of community support in managing recovery.This episode is a must-listen for parents, athletes, and educators striving to understand the long-term impacts of brain trauma and how to advocate for safer practices in youth sports.
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Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is sponsored by The Mac Parkman Foundation
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma
06:24 Understanding Concussions: A Personal Story
12:19 Exploring Treatment Options
20:10 Current State of Concussion Awareness
26:43 The Importance of Education and Awareness
34:18 Advice for Parents on Contact Sports
Get the Head Smart App Today! Click the link below to download it now!
https://www.mpfact.com/headsmart-app/
Connect with Jami today!
LinkedIn: Jami (Stelman) Uretsky
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiuretsky/
Website: concussionmom.com
X: @ConcussionMom
Facebook: Concussion Mom
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064936110206
Produced by Security Halt Media
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hey folks, bruce Parkman here.
Welcome to another episode ofBroken Brain, sponsored by the
Mack Parkman Foundation, wherewe focus on the issue of
repetitive brain trauma whetherit's repetitive head impacts
from contact sports orrepetitive blast exposure for
our military veterans, and howthese injuries are affecting the
mental health of a huge segmentof our population that we are
(00:33):
not really educated on.
So we go out there and we findthe leaders, researchers, the
leading authors, the leadingscientists and parents and
victims and professionals,players, everywhere we can find,
to bring you the latestperspectives on repetitive brain
trauma and how we can heal it,because you are going to be the
(00:54):
advocate for this, for the onesthat you love.
Today we have an amazingpodcast, somebody that actually,
I've found out I've known forquite a while.
It was Jamie Urensky out ofBoston, massachusetts, and she
started the Concussion Mom.
If you've ever paid it, you needto pay attention to the
Concussion Mom, because they area leading advocate for changes
(01:15):
in education awareness when itcomes to concussions.
But this got started when herdaughter suffered a
life-changing concussion whileplaying a high school soccer
game in 2011.
Changing concussion whileplaying a high school soccer
game in 2011.
And so she started her ownsocial media operation to bring
awareness about this, calledConcussion Mom.
She's a certified brain fitnesscoach which I didn't even know
(01:36):
existed, so I'd love some moreinformation on that, because we
definitely need more brainfitness coaches in this world.
And she is an active activistand I can attest to this when it
comes to promoting concussioneducation and awareness, because
there's not enough of this outthere.
She wrote a chapter for thebestselling book Concussed
Sports Related Head InjuriesPrevention, coping and Real
Stories, as well as numerousprint articles and blog postings
(01:58):
.
She's been in a professionalvideo for Blower Hockey and then
she as well as the documentaryOvercoming TBI, which features
at the International BrainInjury Conference in New Orleans
, and she's obviously a frequentguest on podcasts, radio shows
and she does a ton of education,awareness and the issues of
concussions which we need totalk more about, especially when
(02:20):
it's caused by repetitiveimpact.
So, jamie, thank you so muchfor coming on the show.
So tell us, how did you gethere?
I mean, what got you?
I mean, obviously it soundslike your daughter, thank God, I
mean she's okay, but it soundslike you got her to do through
this, the way that we all getinto this from some near tragic
experience.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
That is correct.
She was playing in a highschool soccer game.
She had actually hurt her legso she wasn't supposed to play.
And since I wasn't there, shetalked the coach into letting
her play and I got a call on myway there.
(03:01):
I was going to the game but Ididn't have to be there right
when it started because shewasn't supposed to play.
So I got a call when I was onmy way from one of her friends
saying she had gotten hurt.
She was okay sitting on thebench.
He hurt her head but she wasfine.
But they just wanted to let meknow.
So I got there and she wassitting on the bench.
She was a little dazed, wasn'tterrible.
(03:21):
They did diagnose her with aconcussion on the field.
We had a very good trainer atour high school and he suggested
that I take her to the hospital.
And my husband was away thatweekend and I was trying to
decide do I, do I take her tothe hospital?
She didn't seem that bad andfinally I said you know, I think
(03:41):
I just need to do this.
So I took her to the emergencyroom.
It was a head injury.
So they took her right away andthey diagnosed her with a
concussion and told me to see myprimary care physician.
This was a Thursday to see myprimary care physician as soon
as possible her pediatrician atthe time because she was 15.
(04:02):
Pediatrician at the timebecause she was 15.
So she is a very, verycompetitive person.
So she was not interested instaying home from school the
next day.
This was just not going to beaffecting her life.
So as the night wore on, she gotworse and worse.
I said I think you should sendan email to your teachers, let
(04:26):
them know that you might not beat school tomorrow.
Oh, no, no, no, I'm going to goto school.
I said okay, but you know,let's just let them know.
Well, we turn on the computerand she couldn't really see it.
She couldn't.
She started to not make sense.
Everything was blurry.
So I wrote the email for her.
Still, you know, I really didn'tknow what was going to be in
store for me.
If you do not live this, Idon't think you can fully
(04:51):
understand how invasive it is inyour life.
I had taken a concussiontraining thing that all the
parents had to take.
We had to sign our name that wetook it.
But I didn't even pay that muchattention to it because I
figured it's not going to happento me.
Anyway, she couldn't go toschool the next day.
(05:11):
I called the pediatrician.
We went to see her.
She was actually extremelywell-educated in concussions,
which back in 2011,.
That was not always the case.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So we got there, they had the room all darkened for
her and she was really prettybad by this point.
No, sunlight couldn't focus,really bad headaches, just
really wasn't herself.
She's a very vivacious, full ofpersonality type of a person.
Her personality was completelyflat, it was just nothing.
(05:47):
She had no short-term memory.
The trip to the doctor we goit's like a lot of back roads,
very bumpy, and every bumpreally bothered her.
So the ride itself wasdifficult.
So the ride itself wasdifficult.
And then we got there and shehad to fill out a sheet with all
the symptoms and you know, thedoctor said she's got a
(06:11):
concussion, she can't go toschool next week and I want to
see her back in a week.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So that went on for probably two months.
Wow, yeah, and that's you know.
And when you talk abouteducation and concussions back
in 2011, a concussion was aheadache, right, and you know,
in our kids, you know, I thinkback to when my son got his
first concussion.
I was on a business trip inAustralia and I came home a week
later and, you know, everythingseemed fine.
(06:44):
Of course I've had concussions,so you weren't even looking for
changes.
So thank goodness that yourdaughter I mean, you know,
unfortunately displayed somemechanism because, given her
competitive nature, she probablywould have just kept going now.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah Well, after these two months it was very
difficult for her to be keptdown.
However, there was no choice.
She had no short-term memory.
Friends would come over tovisit.
She would have no idea thatthey had come to visit.
She couldn't remember her wayaround our house.
She wanted to drink a water.
She couldn't remember where thecups were.
(07:18):
I had to have the shades drawnat all times.
I mean, it was very, verysevere.
So we were then sent to aconcussion specialist, dr Cantu,
and he became her primarydoctor.
For this.
She has actually never beenformally released from his care
to this day.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So that was- Cantu's one of the best out there when
it comes to head injuries.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So that was one of the best out there when it comes
to head injuries, absolutely.
But you know that took us downa whole new road.
I was.
My own personal journey wasweek to week.
Ok, next week she'll be able todo this.
Next week she'll be able to dothis.
All her friends are gettingtheir licenses.
When it's time for her to get alicense, she'll be fine by then
.
These milestones were never met, and when you're a 15-year-old
(08:07):
girl, that is tough.
No social life, nothing Reallydifficult.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So let's talk about the injury a little bit, because
a lot of people assume thatsoccer is not a contact sport.
Yet you have heading the ball,you have midair collisions, you
have collisions on the groundand while it's not football or
hockey, when you start talkingabout heading the ball and we
have we've had some tragedieswhere young men and women like
(08:33):
to practice heading the ball andhave absolutely gave themselves
brain damage and mental illnessand unfortunately are no longer
here.
So how did you?
You know?
So, for the benefit of ouraudience, to understand that
there's a reason why we'resaying wait before we start
banging the head on.
You know, heading soccer ballsyou can't.
You really take away theaccidents right.
(08:55):
The actions happen.
So how did she get hurt on thefield?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
She was running down the field.
She was a defender and theoffensive person from the other
team was running behind her andtripped her and she was running
very fast and she went up in theair up, fell straight down and
right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Here is where she was On her forehead.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, and then she snapped her neck.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And those are hard fields, especially if they're
not grass and dirt like the olddays either.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Right Yep.
Wow and she snapped her neck.
She went straight up in the air, fell right back down again
same place and snapped her neckagain.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Bang.
Yeah, and that's what's soimportant to our parents that we
try to and we'll talk about.
The primary points of whereyou're at is that you have to be
on the lookout.
Thank God you had a doctor thatwanted to back, or that the
symptoms were severe enough,because most concussions the
kids they seem all right two orthree days later, even the next
day, but they're not and we nowknow that this is a brain injury
(09:55):
and it's very, very serious.
So how long did it take for youto get your daughter back?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
probably, maybe six years six years, wow.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
As a parent too, she's not a hundred percent
right now.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I'm not sure she ever will be, um, but yeah, it took
a very long time.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Wow, I mean I'm, I'm, I'm so sorry to share that and
obviously, you know, during thisjourney you must have.
You know, you became a doctor,right?
I mean, basically you're now aconcussion doctor because even
though you're under Dr Cantu'scare, I mean, he's one of the
best you know.
Nobody looks out for a kid likeMama Bear.
(10:43):
So what did you do to educateyourself in order to provide
your daughter the best possiblecare that she could get?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, she needed round-the-clock care, so I had
to stop working and I stayedhome with her.
She didn't go to school formonths and months almost a year
actually.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
No kidding.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, and when she went back she only went a couple
hours.
She went to private school.
We were very lucky that therewere certain protocols that
could be implemented for her,but she didn't fully go back to
school for a year.
So I was home with her housefor a while because she couldn't
(11:27):
do anything.
She would tell me that when shewould walk, the impact of her
foot on the ground went right upinto her head things you would
never think of.
So she slept a lot, and sowhile she slept I researched and
I found that taking care ofthese head injuries is not a
linear thing.
(11:48):
There are so many differentcomponents to it, and one of
hers was whiplash.
And then with these you sort ofhave to treat them symptom by
symptom, as opposed to a brokenbone.
You know you do what you do,but these you have to treat by
symptom.
So it's hit or miss what works.
So you have to try certainthings, give them a little time,
(12:09):
see if they work.
Then you move on to the nextwhen that one stops working.
It took a long, long time.
We did years of this.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Did they use any like the treatment techniques on
your daughter?
What were I mean?
What were some of thetechniques that they that she
passed through in order toimprove her brain health, in
order to, you know, stimulategrowth and prove her memory, and
and, and, and and, things likethat?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
One of the things that we started at home was a
very, very clean diet, which didhelp.
Some People think when you goto a chiropractor they just
adjust you and crack you.
There are so many differenttypes of chiropractors that have
very, very differentspecialties, so we went to one
(12:58):
that does just upper cervicalprocedures.
He would measure her neck, theangle, the x-rays, and then it
almost looked like a bigprotractor to me.
Do you remember protractorsfrom?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
school.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And it would be a very, very precise little push
on her neck and that was it.
That was all he did and ithelped for a while.
We went to a chiropractor whodid muscle memory kinesiology.
We went to regular standardchiropractors but they did, I
think, more harm than good withthe adjustments.
(13:38):
We went to physical therapy.
We went to an herbalist.
We actually lived in a town, aMarblehead Mass at the time, and
there was a world-famousherbalist who was in our town
and we went to her and she wasvery helpful.
But I would say the mosthelpful thing that we did was
something called functionalneurology.
Have you heard of that?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
No, ma'am, I'm learning every day.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Okay.
So they're chiropractors andthey have very advanced training
in neurology and they go to aplace in Florida, actually the
Carrick Center.
Dr Ted Carrick is the father offunctional neurology, he's a
Harvard grad and they do allkinds of brain-eye coordination,
(14:24):
balance, um, things you couldnever imagine.
She had all kinds of work thatshe had to do at home.
You know two, sometimes twohours a day of of rehab that she
would have to do, sometimesthings as simple as like her
first, her first assignment,I'll call it, was they gave her
a post-it note with a dot on itand she had a certain pattern
(14:47):
that she had to follow that dota certain number of times every
day and it actually helped.
It's something as simple asthat.
And then from there they buildon that to get her better.
And I actually took her there inMay of her senior year of high
school so this was three yearslater because she was going to
(15:08):
college and I was thinking tomyself I don't know how she's
going to go to college.
You know, she got in, shewanted to go, but I just did not
know how she was going to liveaway.
So I said I have one morechance.
I had three months with her toget her back and I took her to
this functional neurologist andshe went.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Wow.
So, like during this journeytoo, how was your experience
with insurance with some ofthese modalities?
Was it covered?
Was it out of pocket?
Because we're finding out thatman a lot of these things that
can help the brain, you knowinsurance won't cover you unless
it's drugs, therapy.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
That is correct.
It was all out of pocket.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Wow.
So the thing?
And who directed you to?
Did you find out this on yourown?
Or did Dr Cantu or some otherfolks say, hey, try all this.
And I mean here you areobviously grieving, you know,
for somebody that you love?
That's not, you know, that'sbeen harmed and you're doing
everything you can to improvetheir life, because they've got
a whole life to live.
And so did you find thesetreatments on your own, Um, or
were you assisted, guided in anyway?
(16:14):
Cause I mean, I never heard ofMr Carrot, but I'll be looking
him up and inviting him on theshow, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I did it all on my own.
That was.
This is what I did while sheslept.
I had no choice.
She was laying in bed andcouldn't move, couldn't see,
because her pupils were so large.
Her pupils were so big for solong.
I mean, it was probably maybethree years ago that they seemed
to be okay.
(16:43):
So this has been a very long,long time.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Wow, and it's still ongoing and that's why you know
to our audience.
You know, educating yourself wecome across this all the time.
It's like I had to educatemyself on the issue of the
predative head impacts.
There's no information on it.
You know, here we talk about aTBI that's impacted this young
lady, for I mean all this time.
So, all right, here you are.
(17:08):
You know you're researchingyour daughter's healing not as
fast as you want to go and youdecide to do something about it
and you became concussion momlike superhero, all right.
So how did that tell me aboutthat?
How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
So I did have a lot of people help me along the way
because, as I did my research.
I called everybody that I couldfind that she did help me.
Um, so I decided it was a lotof work that just had to be done
because she was not going toget better without this.
So I decided I would do thispay it forward because I wanted
people to have a place to go forresources that I have already
(17:51):
tried and my experience withthem.
So that's why I did it.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Okay, and what did you do?
I mean you have a website.
I mean, obviously you've beenout there quite a bit talking,
know, talking and speaking, andwhen did this all get?
When did all?
When did this all get started?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
January of 2012.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So you've been a concussion mom for that long,
huh.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yes.
Um yep, so I did um socialmedia.
I had a blog, I have my website, I did a podcast for quite a
while, a radio show, justanything I could think of to get
out there and help.
I've gone and spoken atbusinesses and schools.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Good on you.
Yeah, I need your agent.
That's an amazing journey and,given what you've been through
and I think that's I mean that'sso amazing.
So there's the book that yougot involved with.
How did you?
How did you get involved withthat?
How did they reach out to you?
Were you a co author?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
on that.
So it was written by Kerry,mostly by Kerry Goulet and Keith
Primo, who used to play for thePhiladelphia Flyers.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So during my research , one of the places that I found
that was helpful to me issomething called Stop
Concussions, and they foundedStop Concussions and Kerry has
been very helpful to me allthese years and they were
writing this book and they askedboth Madeline and I to write a
chapter for the book.
So she wrote one aboutreturning to school and I wrote
one about what it's like to bethe parent of a child going
(19:33):
through this.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Wow.
I mean, you know, you look at,we come across so many
organizations that came out oftragedy right, and here we are.
Here you are, you know 2024,right, 13 years or so after this
incident.
Are you satisfied where we'reat when it comes to concussions
right now and diagnosis andtreatment?
(19:56):
I mean, obviously you had a lotto learn.
Where do you feel we are rightnow medically, in our awareness
and our ability to treat theseinjuries?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I think we are really headed down the right path when
I started this.
As you know, dr Cantu has aconcussion clinic.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yes, sir, didn't even have that back then.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So there have been leaps and bounds in this.
My problem with all of it isthere is no cure.
So you still do have to treatthose symptoms symptom by
symptom.
I'm not sure how to get to thepoint where it's somewhat
(20:42):
similar for everybody, becauseit's very different for
everybody.
Everybody's brain injury is sodifferent that there isn't one
way to address it.
And I still do a lot ofcounseling with parents and kids
who get these concussions andthey'll tell and you know
they'll tell me what's wrong.
They'll tell me their symptomsand then I try to point them in
(21:03):
the right direction, but it'salways different.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, I mean it's it, it definitely is.
I mean the the we have, youknow it's not like a broken leg,
right, there's only basically acouple of ways to treat a
broken brain.
You deal with a brain and yougot all the other factors of
diet, you know, extensiveexposure, and so, yeah, I mean
we do need a lot more focus onthis and yet we've studied it to
(21:28):
death.
I mean we've got so manyconcussion studies out there and
I mean I mean every year we sayI read so many, read so many
things on concussions which, ofcourse, impacted your life.
Now let's talk about the studyor the concept of repetitive
head impacts.
Okay, those little hits thatyou get from hitting the soccer
(21:51):
ball or tackling in football andrugby and hockey and lacrosse,
and now women's rugby is thefastest growing sport and I know
in Canada and it's growing.
We had that young lady run overeverybody in the Olympics,
right.
Yet these are contact sportsand we have children like yours,
with developing brains, playingthese sports.
(22:14):
What is your position on thesecontact sports and children
playing?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
So that is such a tough one because sports are so
important in ways other thanjust the physical activity.
They promote teamwork, workingtogether, a sense of belonging.
There's so much to it.
So I am a huge sports fan and Iam for sports.
But I don't think we need tohave all the head contact like
(22:46):
in, you know, hockey, phantomhockey.
We don't need to be checking.
When my son played, when ourcountry started checking, canada
was not checking at that sameage.
When our country startedchecking, canada was not
checking at that same age.
I think we could get rid of theheading of the ball in the
(23:09):
youth soccer up to high school.
I think that we need to delaythat kind of contact until at
least after they're 14.
The problem is the kids are notalways the ones making the
decisions.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Ha Yep.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
And parents.
I found through my experience,when your child is in high
school or middle school, a lotof times your social life
revolves around the youth sports, their identity.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yes, a lot of times your social life revolves around
the youth, sports and theiridentity.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yes and so.
For example, my daughter playedum hockey, she played soccer
and she ran track.
That all went away, so I had abig social life with that.
She never played high schoolsports again.
That is the no, absolutely,it's.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Um, you know that I mean.
The reason my son played thesports that he's playing is that
the coaches came up to him,right, and the kids came up to
him and they just my boy, justwanted to be with the gang,
right?
We had no idea that theseback-to-back sports were gonna,
you know, impact him to thepoint.
You know that that he took hislife, right.
Nobody knows that.
That's why we ended up writingour book, that's why you know
(24:22):
you're working on your book,because we have no idea that
these sports can also, when itcomes down to brains, injure
people to the point where, likeyour daughter here, 13 years, is
still trying to come back.
And I think that goes to thefact that, as a society, we just
don't appreciate the fragilityof the brain and the value we
(24:43):
only got.
One of these things, you know.
And then, once you know, onceyou deal with, you know, your or
my situation, when you startreally studying the brain, you
start thinking, oh my God, did Iactually put this at risk,
right?
Or I needed and, to your case,I need to get on this because
this is serious, right, where somany concussions are just not
really, you know, paid attentionto because of lack of quality
(25:06):
of care and standardization.
So you know the, you know thatthat it's it's a, it's a big,
it's a big factor and that's whywe try to focus parents on
explaining with love.
It's like I love you and youshouldn't be heading the ball,
you shouldn't be tackling atthis age, and we usually promote
(25:32):
18.
We think that in contact sports, if you can join the Army, you
can bang your head up if youwant.
But I I think you're right.
Football, I mean high school,is where we're going to be
challenged by you know what'sthe rest of the world doing, and
so on and so forth.
So we think that delayingexposure in any way, shape or
form till at least high schoolis good.
(25:54):
And then now when your daughtervery competitive, she played
sports all year round, right yepyeah yeah, and then you're, I
mean, but you know, and at leastshe wasn't playing soccer,
you're like, because you canplay soccer year round now, you
can play for the travel team,you play for the school, you can
play for these private leaguesnow, and parents are crazy about
(26:15):
these sports, man, I mean they,they really are.
And's something that you knowwe need to deal with.
And so in your journey rightnow, okay, where do you still
think there's work to be done?
I mean, you say we're in abetter place regarding
concussions.
Where can we improve regardingconcussions?
(26:41):
Where can we improve?
Where can we improve as parents, as a medical community, as
society, when it comes to brainhealth and sports or just
concussions alone?
Where can we go?
Where can we go for?
How do we make it better?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I really think, as you have said in the past,
education is key because if youknow what the risk that you're
putting your child at, you'regoing to do something about it.
I think that a lot of parentsreally do not understand that,
so my daughter's was a veryacute situation as opposed to
(27:16):
the repetitive head injuries,repetitive hits.
So there's two differentmodalities there the repetitive
and then the acute, bothterrible, and parents just need
to be aware that the repetitiveis often worse than what my
daughter had, so I couldn't notbe aware because she was a
(27:40):
completely different person.
When it's just the repetitive,and not necessarily concussions,
you're not really aware ofwhat's going on.
That's where the educationcomes in.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And you're right.
I mean there are so many daysand I wish my son would have had
a career ending injury right Onanything right.
And he didn't.
I mean he had a concussion.
It was his third one in twoyears.
And I asked the coach.
I said I'm done, how manyconcussions could my son have in
ninth grade, right?
(28:11):
And they said we don't know.
But here's the book.
And he never had another one.
I never had a reason to pull myson and he kept soldiering on
all through these years of painand misery, not able to
communicate, and you don't seethat I mean because the kids
hide it so well.
And then when they get olderthey get a little bit more
distant because they're joiningthe army or whatever.
(28:32):
They're getting to be adults.
Who wants to be around mom anddad all the time?
And then they just act in sucha loving manner until you get
this text one day saying I can'tbe here no more.
And I wish that, not that Iwish I was in your shoes.
I never would wish this kind ofpain on anybody, or your pain
(28:52):
for that matter.
I am absolutely just heartbrokenfor what you had to go through
as a parent because of anaccident.
But your resiliency, yourtenacity, your perseverance has
allowed you to be here today asa subject matter expert on this
issue.
And you're, you know you're a.
You know you're a brain coach,right.
(29:13):
I mean what's that?
What's the title?
Again, a brain, a certifiedbrains fitness coach, right.
But I mean you had to get therethrough tragedy.
But tell me about that, Ididn't even know that existed.
So what's all that?
Did you go to Harvard orsomething and get that?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I used to take a course online to educate myself.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Really yeah, nice.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Actually Madeline.
My daughter took it with me.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
No kidding, who sponsors that?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It was called the Spencer Institute.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, Nice program Actually, madeline.
My daughter took it with me.
No kidding, who sponsors that?
It was called the SpencerInstitute.
I would recommend everybody islistening to this podcast, go
online.
I'm going to go do it.
And because it's all abouteducation and awareness and if,
if you're listening to thispodcast, you're starting to
realize, man, you know, I got to, we only got one brain and if
you're hurting, you know.
We do know that there's a lot ofnew ways to treat the brain,
(30:03):
but we have to prioritize brainhealth in this country and I do
think that you know, because ofyou know the incidents like
you've had to go through andwhat I've had to go through.
We're getting there, but it'sstill not a part of our standard
care and our insurance systemsreflect that.
Our coverage reflects that.
The fact that you have tobecome a brain coach as a mom
(30:25):
and I have to write a book as adad reflect the fact that we are
not educated in the fragilityof the brain and the importance
of the brain at the same time.
So we just throw our kids outthere.
We think that helmets protecttheir brain.
They don't do a darn thing.
They protect the skull, butthey don't do anything for the
(30:45):
brain.
In terms of research, where arewe at right now?
Is there any?
You know we've researched a lot.
There's a lot of research onconcussions.
Are you seeing that to startpermeate in the medical
community?
I mean the fact that you had adoctor that saw your daughter,
you know, multiple times, whichis amazing.
(31:07):
It doesn't happen in most ofthe concussion cases that we're
aware of right here in America.
I mean, you know and and and.
So when you're in your journeyand your talks right now, where
are your concerns?
Where do we?
What can we do to improve more?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Well, I will say to your point one of the issues
that I do find is that insurancedoes not cover a lot of these
treatments and that is a problembecause I would say most people
cannot afford them.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
They're very expensive, they're very helpful
and I don't know what to dowithout them, because sometimes
you don't just get better, youhave to retrain your brain.
So this research, with all theneuroplasticity and my daughter,
for example, this brain injurychanged the whole course of her
(32:01):
life.
She did not plan to do with herlife what she is doing, if not
for this brain injury.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, tell the audience where she works right
now.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
So she actually did a lot of volunteer work for the
Brain Injury Association ofAmerica and she was at their
annual conference giving a talk.
One year and Dr Stern from theCTE Center heard her and I don't
know, maybe two years later,three years later, something
(32:34):
like that she sent her resume toDr McKee because she wanted a
tour of the lab.
She was now in college at thispoint and she was majoring in
neuroscience and she just wanteda tour of the lab.
Dr McKee forwarded her resumeto Dr Stern and they called her
and said oh, come on in.
So she thought she was going in.
We looked at the lab and hesaid you know, I heard you speak
(32:58):
at the brain injury conference,would like to have you here as
an intern.
So that's how she started andthen she just stayed there until
this past July, um, doingresearch on CTE, and now she is
at UConn, uh, getting a PhD inclinical neuropsychology.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Wow, and then she's gotten back to the point where
she's able to do that.
That is so amazing and sheprobably worked on that study
that we funded that.
We finally looked at all brainsunder 30, 162 brains up there,
including my son's and, yeah,40% of them had CTE, but 100% of
them had structural damage tothe brain, 100% of them had
(33:35):
cognitive, behavioral orpsychological disorders and 80%
of them died from suicide.
That I mean it is unbelievable,what we have found out in that
study and why we need folks likeyou to get out there with us
and help us push so much forchange.
As we close out, what are yourrecommendations to parents?
We've got parents on thispodcast.
(33:57):
You know they're all moms anddads.
They're concerned.
They're listening to this.
You've been through a lot.
You've educated yourself.
What are your recommendationsto our parents out there, on
anything from concussions orhead impacts to contact sports?
What do you have to say?
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I would say that if you are going to have your child
play a contact sport, youreally need to do a lot of
research.
You need to go and be there,see when they get hit.
You can't take a backseat tothis.
You have to be involved in thesport with them in a way,
because there is no way to knowexactly what is happening,
(34:41):
sometimes until it's too late.
So you have to educate yourselfthe psychological issues that
might come up.
You can't just brush them offas, oh you know, it's teenager
stuff.
Teenage right yeah so you haveto be hyper aware if you want
your child to play contactsports.
I don't recommend the contactsports till high school, but if
(35:07):
you do choose to do that, youreally do need to educate
yourself, because your child'snot going to educate themselves
and they're going to want toplay.
It's up to the parent to dothat.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Now, when you educate yourself, take a look at where
your son's or daughter's brainis.
At that time, it's just not ina position to be absorbing.
You know those blows.
So how do people find you?
How do they follow JamieUretsky and all your journeys
and you know and become familiarwith who you are concussion mom
(35:39):
.
You know how do they track youand what do you have going on.
What's next?
What's next for you?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
So they can find me on Instagram, twitter.
I have my website,concussionmomcom.
I'm hoping to work on a secondbook with Kerry Goulet from Stop
Concussions.
We've started talking aboutthat and I don't.
I just keep doing what I'mdoing educating, um, people find
me and call me for help.
(36:04):
That's pretty much what I, whatI have been doing lately.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Well, jamie, you're doing an amazing job and I
cannot thank you enough forcoming on this podcast sharing
your daughter, your story, yourdaughter's story, and I thank
you for the work that you'vedone with our parents around
this country, because this is ahuge issue and we are not yet
addressing it in the way we'regetting better, as you said, but
(36:31):
we still have a long way to goto prioritize brain health and
understand that we need tochange the way we play these
sports and we need to change theway that we treat these people
when they're injured, to includecovering the modalities that
are going to improve their brainhealth, and not say no or force
their parents to sell cars orwhatever they got a mortgage,
(36:52):
homes or, you know, go out ofpocket.
I mean, these are legitimatemedical, uh modalities that are
proven and they should becovered.
So I cannot thank you enoughfor your time.
I cannot thank you enough foryour passion.
I wish you the best.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Thank you for having me and thank you for all you do.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
And don't forget again as I close free book
online.
Go get it, read it 88 pages.
You'll know more aboutrepetitive head impacts and
concussions almost as much asJamie, but more than most of the
medical people that you'regoing to encounter in your life,
and you need to know this foryour kids and daughters.
Jamie, once again, thank you somuch for coming on the show
(37:31):
Another great episode of BrokenBrains and we look forward to
wishing you the best for thefuture and our podcast for our
audience.
We'll see you again next weekon Broken Brains, thank you.
Hey folks, bruce Parkman here.
Welcome to another episode ofBroken Brain, sponsored by the
Mack Parkman Foundation, wherewe focus on the issue of
repetitive brain trauma whetherit's repetitive head impacts
from contact sports orrepetitive blast exposure for
our military veterans, and howthese injuries are affecting the
mental health of a huge segmentof our population that we are
(00:33):
not really educated on.
So we go out there and we findthe leaders, researchers, the
leading authors, the leadingscientists and parents and
victims and professionals,players, everywhere we can find,
to bring you the latestperspectives on repetitive brain
trauma and how we can heal it,because you are going to be the
(00:54):
advocate for this, for the onesthat you love.
Today we have an amazingpodcast, somebody that actually,
I've found out I've known forquite a while.
It was Jamie Urensky out ofBoston, massachusetts, and she
started the Concussion Mom.
If you've ever paid it, you needto pay attention to the
Concussion Mom, because they area leading advocate for changes
(01:15):
in education awareness when itcomes to concussions.
But this got started when herdaughter suffered a
life-changing concussion whileplaying a high school soccer
game in 2011.
Changing concussion whileplaying a high school soccer
game in 2011.
And so she started her ownsocial media operation to bring
awareness about this, calledConcussion Mom.
She's a certified brain fitnesscoach which I didn't even know
(01:36):
existed, so I'd love some moreinformation on that, because we
definitely need more brainfitness coaches in this world.
And she is an active activistand I can attest to this when it
comes to promoting concussioneducation and awareness, because
there's not enough of this outthere.
She wrote a chapter for thebestselling book Concussed
Sports Related Head InjuriesPrevention, coping and Real
Stories, as well as numerousprint articles and blog postings
(01:58):
.
She's been in a professionalvideo for Blower Hockey and then
she as well as the documentaryOvercoming TBI, which features
at the International BrainInjury Conference in New Orleans
, and she's obviously a frequentguest on podcasts, radio shows
and she does a ton of education,awareness and the issues of
concussions which we need totalk more about, especially when
(02:20):
it's caused by repetitiveimpact.
So, jamie, thank you so muchfor coming on the show.
So tell us, how did you gethere?
I mean, what got you?
I mean, obviously it soundslike your daughter, thank God, I
mean she's okay, but it soundslike you got her to do through
this, the way that we all getinto this from some near tragic
experience.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
That is correct.
She was playing in a highschool soccer game.
She had actually hurt her legso she wasn't supposed to play.
And since I wasn't there, shetalked the coach into letting
her play and I got a call on myway there.
(03:01):
I was going to the game but Ididn't have to be there right
when it started because shewasn't supposed to play.
So I got a call when I was onmy way from one of her friends
saying she had gotten hurt.
She was okay sitting on thebench.
He hurt her head but she wasfine.
But they just wanted to let meknow.
So I got there and she wassitting on the bench.
She was a little dazed, wasn'tterrible.
(03:21):
They did diagnose her with aconcussion on the field.
We had a very good trainer atour high school and he suggested
that I take her to the hospital.
And my husband was away thatweekend and I was trying to
decide do I, do I take her tothe hospital?
She didn't seem that bad andfinally I said you know, I think
(03:41):
I just need to do this.
So I took her to the emergencyroom.
It was a head injury.
So they took her right away andthey diagnosed her with a
concussion and told me to see myprimary care physician.
This was a Thursday to see myprimary care physician as soon
as possible her pediatrician atthe time because she was 15.
(04:02):
Pediatrician at the timebecause she was 15.
So she is a very, verycompetitive person.
So she was not interested instaying home from school the
next day.
This was just not going to beaffecting her life.
So as the night wore on, she gotworse and worse.
I said I think you should sendan email to your teachers, let
(04:26):
them know that you might not beat school tomorrow.
Oh, no, no, no, I'm going to goto school.
I said okay, but you know,let's just let them know.
Well, we turn on the computerand she couldn't really see it.
She couldn't.
She started to not make sense.
Everything was blurry.
So I wrote the email for her.
Still, you know, I really didn'tknow what was going to be in
store for me.
If you do not live this, Idon't think you can fully
(04:51):
understand how invasive it is inyour life.
I had taken a concussiontraining thing that all the
parents had to take.
We had to sign our name that wetook it.
But I didn't even pay that muchattention to it because I
figured it's not going to happento me.
Anyway, she couldn't go toschool the next day.
(05:11):
I called the pediatrician.
We went to see her.
She was actually extremelywell-educated in concussions,
which back in 2011,.
That was not always the case.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So we got there, they had the room all darkened for
her and she was really prettybad by this point.
No, sunlight couldn't focus,really bad headaches, just
really wasn't herself.
She's a very vivacious, full ofpersonality type of a person.
Her personality was completelyflat, it was just nothing.
(05:47):
She had no short-term memory.
The trip to the doctor we goit's like a lot of back roads,
very bumpy, and every bumpreally bothered her.
So the ride itself wasdifficult.
So the ride itself wasdifficult.
And then we got there and shehad to fill out a sheet with all
the symptoms and you know, thedoctor said she's got a
(06:11):
concussion, she can't go toschool next week and I want to
see her back in a week.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So that went on for probably two months.
Wow, yeah, and that's you know.
And when you talk abouteducation and concussions back
in 2011, a concussion was aheadache, right, and you know,
in our kids, you know, I thinkback to when my son got his
first concussion.
I was on a business trip inAustralia and I came home a week
later and, you know, everythingseemed fine.
(06:44):
Of course I've had concussions,so you weren't even looking for
changes.
So thank goodness that yourdaughter I mean, you know,
unfortunately displayed somemechanism because, given her
competitive nature, she probablywould have just kept going now.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah Well, after these two months it was very
difficult for her to be keptdown.
However, there was no choice.
She had no short-term memory.
Friends would come over tovisit.
She would have no idea thatthey had come to visit.
She couldn't remember her wayaround our house.
She wanted to drink a water.
She couldn't remember where thecups were.
(07:18):
I had to have the shades drawnat all times.
I mean, it was very, verysevere.
So we were then sent to aconcussion specialist, dr Cantu,
and he became her primarydoctor.
For this.
She has actually never beenformally released from his care
to this day.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So that was- Cantu's one of the best out there when
it comes to head injuries.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So that was one of the best out there when it comes
to head injuries, absolutely.
But you know that took us downa whole new road.
I was.
My own personal journey wasweek to week.
Ok, next week she'll be able todo this.
Next week she'll be able to dothis.
All her friends are gettingtheir licenses.
When it's time for her to get alicense, she'll be fine by then
.
These milestones were never met, and when you're a 15-year-old
(08:07):
girl, that is tough.
No social life, nothing Reallydifficult.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So let's talk about the injury a little bit, because
a lot of people assume thatsoccer is not a contact sport.
Yet you have heading the ball,you have midair collisions, you
have collisions on the groundand while it's not football or
hockey, when you start talkingabout heading the ball and we
have we've had some tragedieswhere young men and women like
(08:33):
to practice heading the ball andhave absolutely gave themselves
brain damage and mental illnessand unfortunately are no longer
here.
So how did you?
You know?
So, for the benefit of ouraudience, to understand that
there's a reason why we'resaying wait before we start
banging the head on.
You know, heading soccer ballsyou can't.
You really take away theaccidents right.
(08:55):
The actions happen.
So how did she get hurt on thefield?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
She was running down the field.
She was a defender and theoffensive person from the other
team was running behind her andtripped her and she was running
very fast and she went up in theair up, fell straight down and
right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Here is where she was On her forehead.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, and then she snapped her neck.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And those are hard fields, especially if they're
not grass and dirt like the olddays either.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Right Yep.
Wow and she snapped her neck.
She went straight up in the air, fell right back down again
same place and snapped her neckagain.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Bang.
Yeah, and that's what's soimportant to our parents that we
try to and we'll talk about.
The primary points of whereyou're at is that you have to be
on the lookout.
Thank God you had a doctor thatwanted to back, or that the
symptoms were severe enough,because most concussions the
kids they seem all right two orthree days later, even the next
day, but they're not and we nowknow that this is a brain injury
(09:55):
and it's very, very serious.
So how long did it take for youto get your daughter back?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
probably, maybe six years six years, wow.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
As a parent too, she's not a hundred percent
right now.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I'm not sure she ever will be, um, but yeah, it took
a very long time.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Wow, I mean I'm, I'm, I'm so sorry to share that and
obviously, you know, during thisjourney you must have.
You know, you became a doctor,right?
I mean, basically you're now aconcussion doctor because even
though you're under Dr Cantu'scare, I mean, he's one of the
best you know.
Nobody looks out for a kid likeMama Bear.
(10:43):
So what did you do to educateyourself in order to provide
your daughter the best possiblecare that she could get?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, she needed round-the-clock care, so I had
to stop working and I stayedhome with her.
She didn't go to school formonths and months almost a year
actually.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
No kidding.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, and when she went back she only went a couple
hours.
She went to private school.
We were very lucky that therewere certain protocols that
could be implemented for her,but she didn't fully go back to
school for a year.
So I was home with her housefor a while because she couldn't
(11:27):
do anything.
She would tell me that when shewould walk, the impact of her
foot on the ground went right upinto her head things you would
never think of.
So she slept a lot, and sowhile she slept I researched and
I found that taking care ofthese head injuries is not a
linear thing.
(11:48):
There are so many differentcomponents to it, and one of
hers was whiplash.
And then with these you sort ofhave to treat them symptom by
symptom, as opposed to a brokenbone.
You know you do what you do,but these you have to treat by
symptom.
So it's hit or miss what works.
So you have to try certainthings, give them a little time,
(12:09):
see if they work.
Then you move on to the nextwhen that one stops working.
It took a long, long time.
We did years of this.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Did they use any like the treatment techniques on
your daughter?
What were I mean?
What were some of thetechniques that they that she
passed through in order toimprove her brain health, in
order to, you know, stimulategrowth and prove her memory, and
and, and, and and, things likethat?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
One of the things that we started at home was a
very, very clean diet, which didhelp.
Some People think when you goto a chiropractor they just
adjust you and crack you.
There are so many differenttypes of chiropractors that have
very, very differentspecialties, so we went to one
(12:58):
that does just upper cervicalprocedures.
He would measure her neck, theangle, the x-rays, and then it
almost looked like a bigprotractor to me.
Do you remember protractorsfrom?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
school.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And it would be a very, very precise little push
on her neck and that was it.
That was all he did and ithelped for a while.
We went to a chiropractor whodid muscle memory kinesiology.
We went to regular standardchiropractors but they did, I
think, more harm than good withthe adjustments.
(13:38):
We went to physical therapy.
We went to an herbalist.
We actually lived in a town, aMarblehead Mass at the time, and
there was a world-famousherbalist who was in our town
and we went to her and she wasvery helpful.
But I would say the mosthelpful thing that we did was
something called functionalneurology.
Have you heard of that?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
No, ma'am, I'm learning every day.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Okay.
So they're chiropractors andthey have very advanced training
in neurology and they go to aplace in Florida, actually the
Carrick Center.
Dr Ted Carrick is the father offunctional neurology, he's a
Harvard grad and they do allkinds of brain-eye coordination,
(14:24):
balance, um, things you couldnever imagine.
She had all kinds of work thatshe had to do at home.
You know two, sometimes twohours a day of of rehab that she
would have to do, sometimesthings as simple as like her
first, her first assignment,I'll call it, was they gave her
a post-it note with a dot on itand she had a certain pattern
(14:47):
that she had to follow that dota certain number of times every
day and it actually helped.
It's something as simple asthat.
And then from there they buildon that to get her better.
And I actually took her there inMay of her senior year of high
school so this was three yearslater because she was going to
(15:08):
college and I was thinking tomyself I don't know how she's
going to go to college.
You know, she got in, shewanted to go, but I just did not
know how she was going to liveaway.
So I said I have one morechance.
I had three months with her toget her back and I took her to
this functional neurologist andshe went.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Wow.
So, like during this journeytoo, how was your experience
with insurance with some ofthese modalities?
Was it covered?
Was it out of pocket?
Because we're finding out thatman a lot of these things that
can help the brain, you knowinsurance won't cover you unless
it's drugs, therapy.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
That is correct.
It was all out of pocket.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Wow.
So the thing?
And who directed you to?
Did you find out this on yourown?
Or did Dr Cantu or some otherfolks say, hey, try all this.
And I mean here you areobviously grieving, you know,
for somebody that you love?
That's not, you know, that'sbeen harmed and you're doing
everything you can to improvetheir life, because they've got
a whole life to live.
And so did you find thesetreatments on your own, Um, or
were you assisted, guided in anyway?
(16:14):
Cause I mean, I never heard ofMr Carrot, but I'll be looking
him up and inviting him on theshow, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I did it all on my own.
That was.
This is what I did while sheslept.
I had no choice.
She was laying in bed andcouldn't move, couldn't see,
because her pupils were so large.
Her pupils were so big for solong.
I mean, it was probably maybethree years ago that they seemed
to be okay.
(16:43):
So this has been a very long,long time.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Wow, and it's still ongoing and that's why you know
to our audience.
You know, educating yourself wecome across this all the time.
It's like I had to educatemyself on the issue of the
predative head impacts.
There's no information on it.
You know, here we talk about aTBI that's impacted this young
lady, for I mean all this time.
So, all right, here you are.
(17:08):
You know you're researchingyour daughter's healing not as
fast as you want to go and youdecide to do something about it
and you became concussion momlike superhero, all right.
So how did that tell me aboutthat?
How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
So I did have a lot of people help me along the way
because, as I did my research.
I called everybody that I couldfind that she did help me.
Um, so I decided it was a lotof work that just had to be done
because she was not going toget better without this.
So I decided I would do thispay it forward because I wanted
people to have a place to go forresources that I have already
(17:51):
tried and my experience withthem.
So that's why I did it.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Okay, and what did you do?
I mean you have a website.
I mean, obviously you've beenout there quite a bit talking,
know, talking and speaking, andwhen did this all get?
When did all?
When did this all get started?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
January of 2012.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So you've been a concussion mom for that long,
huh.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yes.
Um yep, so I did um socialmedia.
I had a blog, I have my website, I did a podcast for quite a
while, a radio show, justanything I could think of to get
out there and help.
I've gone and spoken atbusinesses and schools.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Good on you.
Yeah, I need your agent.
That's an amazing journey and,given what you've been through
and I think that's I mean that'sso amazing.
So there's the book that yougot involved with.
How did you?
How did you get involved withthat?
How did they reach out to you?
Were you a co author?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
on that.
So it was written by Kerry,mostly by Kerry Goulet and Keith
Primo, who used to play for thePhiladelphia Flyers.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So during my research , one of the places that I found
that was helpful to me issomething called Stop
Concussions, and they foundedStop Concussions and Kerry has
been very helpful to me allthese years and they were
writing this book and they askedboth Madeline and I to write a
chapter for the book.
So she wrote one aboutreturning to school and I wrote
one about what it's like to bethe parent of a child going
(19:33):
through this.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Wow.
I mean, you know, you look at,we come across so many
organizations that came out oftragedy right, and here we are.
Here you are, you know 2024,right, 13 years or so after this
incident.
Are you satisfied where we'reat when it comes to concussions
right now and diagnosis andtreatment?
(19:56):
I mean, obviously you had a lotto learn.
Where do you feel we are rightnow medically, in our awareness
and our ability to treat theseinjuries?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I think we are really headed down the right path when
I started this.
As you know, dr Cantu has aconcussion clinic.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yes, sir, didn't even have that back then.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So there have been leaps and bounds in this.
My problem with all of it isthere is no cure.
So you still do have to treatthose symptoms symptom by
symptom.
I'm not sure how to get to thepoint where it's somewhat
(20:42):
similar for everybody, becauseit's very different for
everybody.
Everybody's brain injury is sodifferent that there isn't one
way to address it.
And I still do a lot ofcounseling with parents and kids
who get these concussions andthey'll tell and you know
they'll tell me what's wrong.
They'll tell me their symptomsand then I try to point them in
(21:03):
the right direction, but it'salways different.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, I mean it's it, it definitely is.
I mean the the we have, youknow it's not like a broken leg,
right, there's only basically acouple of ways to treat a
broken brain.
You deal with a brain and yougot all the other factors of
diet, you know, extensiveexposure, and so, yeah, I mean
we do need a lot more focus onthis and yet we've studied it to
(21:28):
death.
I mean we've got so manyconcussion studies out there and
I mean I mean every year we sayI read so many, read so many
things on concussions which, ofcourse, impacted your life.
Now let's talk about the studyor the concept of repetitive
head impacts.
Okay, those little hits thatyou get from hitting the soccer
(21:51):
ball or tackling in football andrugby and hockey and lacrosse,
and now women's rugby is thefastest growing sport and I know
in Canada and it's growing.
We had that young lady run overeverybody in the Olympics,
right.
Yet these are contact sportsand we have children like yours,
with developing brains, playingthese sports.
(22:14):
What is your position on thesecontact sports and children
playing?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
So that is such a tough one because sports are so
important in ways other thanjust the physical activity.
They promote teamwork, workingtogether, a sense of belonging.
There's so much to it.
So I am a huge sports fan and Iam for sports.
But I don't think we need tohave all the head contact like
(22:46):
in, you know, hockey, phantomhockey.
We don't need to be checking.
When my son played, when ourcountry started checking, canada
was not checking at that sameage.
When our country startedchecking, canada was not
checking at that same age.
I think we could get rid of theheading of the ball in the
(23:09):
youth soccer up to high school.
I think that we need to delaythat kind of contact until at
least after they're 14.
The problem is the kids are notalways the ones making the
decisions.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Ha Yep.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
And parents.
I found through my experience,when your child is in high
school or middle school, a lotof times your social life
revolves around the youth sports, their identity.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yes, a lot of times your social life revolves around
the youth, sports and theiridentity.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yes and so.
For example, my daughter playedum hockey, she played soccer
and she ran track.
That all went away, so I had abig social life with that.
She never played high schoolsports again.
That is the no, absolutely,it's.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Um, you know that I mean.
The reason my son played thesports that he's playing is that
the coaches came up to him,right, and the kids came up to
him and they just my boy, justwanted to be with the gang,
right?
We had no idea that theseback-to-back sports were gonna,
you know, impact him to thepoint.
You know that that he took hislife, right.
Nobody knows that.
That's why we ended up writingour book, that's why you know
(24:22):
you're working on your book,because we have no idea that
these sports can also, when itcomes down to brains, injure
people to the point where, likeyour daughter here, 13 years, is
still trying to come back.
And I think that goes to thefact that, as a society, we just
don't appreciate the fragilityof the brain and the value we
(24:43):
only got.
One of these things, you know.
And then, once you know, onceyou deal with, you know, your or
my situation, when you startreally studying the brain, you
start thinking, oh my God, did Iactually put this at risk,
right?
Or I needed and, to your case,I need to get on this because
this is serious, right, where somany concussions are just not
really, you know, paid attentionto because of lack of quality
(25:06):
of care and standardization.
So you know the, you know thatthat it's it's a, it's a big,
it's a big factor and that's whywe try to focus parents on
explaining with love.
It's like I love you and youshouldn't be heading the ball,
you shouldn't be tackling atthis age, and we usually promote
(25:32):
18.
We think that in contact sports, if you can join the Army, you
can bang your head up if youwant.
But I I think you're right.
Football, I mean high school,is where we're going to be
challenged by you know what'sthe rest of the world doing, and
so on and so forth.
So we think that delayingexposure in any way, shape or
form till at least high schoolis good.
(25:54):
And then now when your daughtervery competitive, she played
sports all year round, right yepyeah yeah, and then you're, I
mean, but you know, and at leastshe wasn't playing soccer,
you're like, because you canplay soccer year round now, you
can play for the travel team,you play for the school, you can
play for these private leaguesnow, and parents are crazy about
(26:15):
these sports, man, I mean they,they really are.
And's something that you knowwe need to deal with.
And so in your journey rightnow, okay, where do you still
think there's work to be done?
I mean, you say we're in abetter place regarding
concussions.
Where can we improve regardingconcussions?
(26:41):
Where can we improve?
Where can we improve as parents, as a medical community, as
society, when it comes to brainhealth and sports or just
concussions alone?
Where can we go?
Where can we go for?
How do we make it better?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I really think, as you have said in the past,
education is key because if youknow what the risk that you're
putting your child at, you'regoing to do something about it.
I think that a lot of parentsreally do not understand that,
so my daughter's was a veryacute situation as opposed to
(27:16):
the repetitive head injuries,repetitive hits.
So there's two differentmodalities there the repetitive
and then the acute, bothterrible, and parents just need
to be aware that the repetitiveis often worse than what my
daughter had, so I couldn't notbe aware because she was a
(27:40):
completely different person.
When it's just the repetitive,and not necessarily concussions,
you're not really aware ofwhat's going on.
That's where the educationcomes in.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And you're right.
I mean there are so many daysand I wish my son would have had
a career ending injury right Onanything right.
And he didn't.
I mean he had a concussion.
It was his third one in twoyears.
And I asked the coach.
I said I'm done, how manyconcussions could my son have in
ninth grade, right?
(28:11):
And they said we don't know.
But here's the book.
And he never had another one.
I never had a reason to pull myson and he kept soldiering on
all through these years of painand misery, not able to
communicate, and you don't seethat I mean because the kids
hide it so well.
And then when they get olderthey get a little bit more
distant because they're joiningthe army or whatever.
(28:32):
They're getting to be adults.
Who wants to be around mom anddad all the time?
And then they just act in sucha loving manner until you get
this text one day saying I can'tbe here no more.
And I wish that, not that Iwish I was in your shoes.
I never would wish this kind ofpain on anybody, or your pain
(28:52):
for that matter.
I am absolutely just heartbrokenfor what you had to go through
as a parent because of anaccident.
But your resiliency, yourtenacity, your perseverance has
allowed you to be here today asa subject matter expert on this
issue.
And you're, you know you're a.
You know you're a brain coach,right.
(29:13):
I mean what's that?
What's the title?
Again, a brain, a certifiedbrains fitness coach, right.
But I mean you had to get therethrough tragedy.
But tell me about that, Ididn't even know that existed.
So what's all that?
Did you go to Harvard orsomething and get that?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I used to take a course online to educate myself.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Really yeah, nice.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Actually Madeline.
My daughter took it with me.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
No kidding, who sponsors that?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It was called the Spencer Institute.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, Nice program Actually, madeline.
My daughter took it with me.
No kidding, who sponsors that?
It was called the SpencerInstitute.
I would recommend everybody islistening to this podcast, go
online.
I'm going to go do it.
And because it's all abouteducation and awareness and if,
if you're listening to thispodcast, you're starting to
realize, man, you know, I got to, we only got one brain and if
you're hurting, you know.
We do know that there's a lot ofnew ways to treat the brain,
(30:03):
but we have to prioritize brainhealth in this country and I do
think that you know, because ofyou know the incidents like
you've had to go through andwhat I've had to go through.
We're getting there, but it'sstill not a part of our standard
care and our insurance systemsreflect that.
Our coverage reflects that.
The fact that you have tobecome a brain coach as a mom
(30:25):
and I have to write a book as adad reflect the fact that we are
not educated in the fragilityof the brain and the importance
of the brain at the same time.
So we just throw our kids outthere.
We think that helmets protecttheir brain.
They don't do a darn thing.
They protect the skull, butthey don't do anything for the
(30:45):
brain.
In terms of research, where arewe at right now?
Is there any?
You know we've researched a lot.
There's a lot of research onconcussions.
Are you seeing that to startpermeate in the medical
community?
I mean the fact that you had adoctor that saw your daughter,
you know, multiple times, whichis amazing.
(31:07):
It doesn't happen in most ofthe concussion cases that we're
aware of right here in America.
I mean, you know and and and.
So when you're in your journeyand your talks right now, where
are your concerns?
Where do we?
What can we do to improve more?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Well, I will say to your point one of the issues
that I do find is that insurancedoes not cover a lot of these
treatments and that is a problembecause I would say most people
cannot afford them.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
They're very expensive, they're very helpful
and I don't know what to dowithout them, because sometimes
you don't just get better, youhave to retrain your brain.
So this research, with all theneuroplasticity and my daughter,
for example, this brain injurychanged the whole course of her
(32:01):
life.
She did not plan to do with herlife what she is doing, if not
for this brain injury.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, tell the audience where she works right
now.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
So she actually did a lot of volunteer work for the
Brain Injury Association ofAmerica and she was at their
annual conference giving a talk.
One year and Dr Stern from theCTE Center heard her and I don't
know, maybe two years later,three years later, something
(32:34):
like that she sent her resume toDr McKee because she wanted a
tour of the lab.
She was now in college at thispoint and she was majoring in
neuroscience and she just wanteda tour of the lab.
Dr McKee forwarded her resumeto Dr Stern and they called her
and said oh, come on in.
So she thought she was going in.
We looked at the lab and hesaid you know, I heard you speak
(32:58):
at the brain injury conference,would like to have you here as
an intern.
So that's how she started andthen she just stayed there until
this past July, um, doingresearch on CTE, and now she is
at UConn, uh, getting a PhD inclinical neuropsychology.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Wow, and then she's gotten back to the point where
she's able to do that.
That is so amazing and sheprobably worked on that study
that we funded that.
We finally looked at all brainsunder 30, 162 brains up there,
including my son's and, yeah,40% of them had CTE, but 100% of
them had structural damage tothe brain, 100% of them had
(33:35):
cognitive, behavioral orpsychological disorders and 80%
of them died from suicide.
That I mean it is unbelievable,what we have found out in that
study and why we need folks likeyou to get out there with us
and help us push so much forchange.
As we close out, what are yourrecommendations to parents?
We've got parents on thispodcast.
(33:57):
You know they're all moms anddads.
They're concerned.
They're listening to this.
You've been through a lot.
You've educated yourself.
What are your recommendationsto our parents out there, on
anything from concussions orhead impacts to contact sports?
What do you have to say?
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I would say that if you are going to have your child
play a contact sport, youreally need to do a lot of
research.
You need to go and be there,see when they get hit.
You can't take a backseat tothis.
You have to be involved in thesport with them in a way,
because there is no way to knowexactly what is happening,
(34:41):
sometimes until it's too late.
So you have to educate yourselfthe psychological issues that
might come up.
You can't just brush them offas, oh you know, it's teenager
stuff.
Teenage right yeah so you haveto be hyper aware if you want
your child to play contactsports.
I don't recommend the contactsports till high school, but if
(35:07):
you do choose to do that, youreally do need to educate
yourself, because your child'snot going to educate themselves
and they're going to want toplay.
It's up to the parent to dothat.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Now, when you educate yourself, take a look at where
your son's or daughter's brainis.
At that time, it's just not ina position to be absorbing.
You know those blows.
So how do people find you?
How do they follow JamieUretsky and all your journeys
and you know and become familiarwith who you are concussion mom
(35:39):
.
You know how do they track youand what do you have going on.
What's next?
What's next for you?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
So they can find me on Instagram, twitter.
I have my website,concussionmomcom.
I'm hoping to work on a secondbook with Kerry Goulet from Stop
Concussions.
We've started talking aboutthat and I don't.
I just keep doing what I'mdoing educating, um, people find
me and call me for help.
(36:04):
That's pretty much what I, whatI have been doing lately.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Well, jamie, you're doing an amazing job and I
cannot thank you enough forcoming on this podcast sharing
your daughter, your story, yourdaughter's story, and I thank
you for the work that you'vedone with our parents around
this country, because this is ahuge issue and we are not yet
addressing it in the way we'regetting better, as you said, but
(36:31):
we still have a long way to goto prioritize brain health and
understand that we need tochange the way we play these
sports and we need to change theway that we treat these people
when they're injured, to includecovering the modalities that
are going to improve their brainhealth, and not say no or force
their parents to sell cars orwhatever they got a mortgage,
(36:52):
homes or, you know, go out ofpocket.
I mean, these are legitimatemedical, uh modalities that are
proven and they should becovered.
So I cannot thank you enoughfor your time.
I cannot thank you enough foryour passion.
I wish you the best.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Thank you for having me and thank you for all you do.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
And don't forget again as I close free book
online.
Go get it, read it 88 pages.
You'll know more aboutrepetitive head impacts and
concussions almost as much asJamie, but more than most of the
medical people that you'regoing to encounter in your life,
and you need to know this foryour kids and daughters.
Jamie, once again, thank you somuch for coming on the show
(37:31):
Another great episode of BrokenBrains and we look forward to
wishing you the best for thefuture and our podcast for our
audience.
We'll see you again next weekon Broken Brains, thank you.
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