February 3, 2025 • 47 mins
In this powerful episode of Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman, Bruce sits down with Phil Quinlan, a traumatic brain injury (TBI) survivor and passionate advocate for concussion awareness. Phil shares his deeply personal story of how a single soccer match changed his life forever, leading to a challenging yet inspiring journey of resilience and recovery.
The conversation explores the lasting effects of brain trauma, the importance of family support, and the urgent need for education and prevention in youth sports. Phil highlights the risks of head injuries in contact sports and discusses his mission to advocate for safer environments for young athletes. He also opens up about writing his book, which sheds light on the realities of living with TBI and aims to spark meaningful change in how we approach sports safety.
This episode is a call to action for parents, coaches, and sports organizations to prioritize athlete health and well-being. By raising awareness and promoting advocacy, we can work together to make sports safer for everyone.
🎧 Tune in now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube to hear Phil’s incredible story and learn how you can contribute to concussion awareness and prevention. Don’t forget to follow, share, like, and subscribe for more impactful stories and discussions on mental health and brain trauma!
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is sponsored by The Mac Parkman Foundation
Support The Mac Parkman Foundation by donating today!
https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=CR24MY2GDUCZL
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma
00:58 Phil Quinlan's Journey with TBI
09:11 The Impact of TBI on Daily Life
16:47 Overcoming Challenges and Resilience
20:04 The Importance of Education and Awareness
25:55 The Impact of Contact Sports on Youth
30:30 Advocacy and Education on Brain Injuries
35:10 The Journey of Writing a Book
41:57 Future Aspirations and Family Support
Get the Head Smart App Today! Click the link below to download it now!
https://www.mpfact.com/headsmart-app/
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Connect with Philip Quinlan today!
LinkedIn: Philip Quinlan
https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-quinlan-41b79943/
Instagram: philquinlan
https://www.instagram.com/philquinlan/
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Don’t forget to grab a copy of his book today!
And a Bang on the Ear: Reclaiming My Life After a Brain Injury
https://www.amazon.com/Bang-Ear-Reclaiming-After-Injury/dp/1788493222
Produced by Security Halt Media
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hey folks, welcome back to another show of Broken
Brains with Bruce Parkman,sponsored by the Mack Parkman
Foundation, where we focus onthe issue of repetitive brain
trauma whether it's repetitivehead impact from sports or
repetitive blast exposure forour military veterans, and what
these impacts are doing to thelives of veterans, athletes and
children and the challenges theyface.
(00:33):
And what do we need to do as asociety to go ahead and do a
better job to make our sportssafer and protect our military
veterans from the impact of theservice and the training that
they undergo.
We reach out to researchers andscientists and people that have
suffered through thesetragedies and have turned them
around in lives in order to giveyou the latest information in
(00:55):
science and research on what wecan do about the impact of
mental illness, psychologicaland behavioral disorders that
come from these types oftragedies.
With us today anotherfascinating guest, mr Phil
Quinlan.
Mr Phil Quinlan is from themotherland of Ireland.
Here he is the survivor of amassive TBI that occurred when
(01:18):
he was a very young man infootball.
He wrote a book called and aBang on the Ear, which seems to
be an amazing review of what hehas been through as a survivor
of a TBI.
He has a beautiful wife, twokids and he works as a patients
and special needs assistant atSt Mary's Special School, again
(01:42):
in the motherland of Ireland.
Mr Gwynlyn, always a pleasureto have guests come in from
overseas and really appreciatethe time that you're taking to
talk to us today, sir.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Bruce thanks a million for having me on and
Dennis thanks a million.
It's always a pleasure to speakto guys who want to learn a bit
more about TBIs and ABIs andsports injuries, mental health.
It's all huge.
But I suppose my story is alittle bit different to a lot of
(02:13):
the stories out there.
I was the fittest young guy inthe town, the fittest
15-year-old going.
I'd previously grown up in aplace called Zambia where I had
to climb trees and I wasswimming rivers and I was
basically Tarzan, but obviouslyTarzan with an Irish accent and
Tippex legs.
But no, we relocated to Nav in81 and I kept on running, kept
(02:39):
on swimming and kept on cycling.
And it was those days when theOlympics were fascinating for me
.
I always wanted to challengemyself to be better, faster,
jump higher, run for longerdistances.
All that and I promised myselfone day I'd go to the Olympics
to represent Ireland, Whetherthat be in the marathon, the
(03:03):
10,000 meters.
I'd probably run both of themon the same day and win both of
them.
That was how fit I was.
I ran for my county.
I represented my club onvarious occasions the school
county medals.
I was a really, really fit guy.
One day, I suppose I joinedParkville at the local soccer
(03:26):
club and Dad had played withthem years previously and won
countless medals with them.
I just wanted to be Dad asevery young fellow does, I'd say
and I went along to play on avery, very foggy morning against
the local rivals.
The fog was immense, we didn'tthink the game would go ahead.
(03:46):
But we arrived at this backwardlittle town and the referee
came along on his Honda 50 andhis welly boots and we just
cracked up laughing at that,because as 15-year-olds,
anything different is funny.
So the game kicked off anywayin immense darkness.
(04:10):
I think the ref just wanted hismoney, so that's why he played
on.
And I suppose about 10 minutesbefore half time the ball came
head height to me and my headclashed against the centre
half's head and it was a veryinnocuous clash.
(04:31):
I'd had worse hits in my life,but never on my head.
And next thing was I went down,got the magic sponge applied.
The referee came over and askedme what day it was, what the
magic sponge applied.
The referee came over and askedme what day it was, what the
score was, where we were.
I answered everything correctlyso he deemed me okay, play on.
(04:53):
So about five minutes later Istarted to feel woozy.
I turned around to face theball and I just kept spinning.
I didn't realize it wasconcussion.
But looking back now, beingmore mature and all the signs of
concussion, I started to feelsick.
I wasn't able to kick the ball,so I was taken off at halftime
(05:19):
and thrown into the dugout andtold to fall asleep.
That was 35 years ago and Ithink I was probably one of the
first people ever told to fallasleep.
That was 35 years ago and Ithink I was probably one of the
first people ever to inventconcussion.
Nobody knew the signs, nobodyknew what to do, so it was
probably better off that I justfell asleep and wasn't hassling
everyone by talking.
So I was going incredibly well.
(05:43):
I was dreaming.
I had some really weird dreams.
I didn't realize it was aperfect storm for me.
(06:07):
It was Sunday afternoon, traffic, the fog was terribly bad, the
roads were very small, the busdriver couldn't overtake, he
just kept beeping everyone and Isuppose what would normally be
a 10-minute journey was a45-minute journey and I arrived
at the local hospital and I'mnot sure they knew exactly what
(06:28):
to do with me, because I wascoherent, I was conscious, I was
answering questions to them,but as a precaution they decided
to send me to the head injuryhospital in Dublin, to the head
injury hospital in Dublin.
So I had to wait for anambulance, which was another
hour to wait, and on the way upto Dublin I regressed on the way
(06:54):
and just as we arrived at thefront door of the hospital I
arrested and thankfully theambulance man had radioed ahead
to say what state I was in.
I was deteriorating rapidly.
The resource team were there,they brought me back to life and
(07:23):
then I was put into a CTscanner which revealed a huge,
ever-growing hematoma, or clotas it was back in the day, and
that had to be removed.
I think that the surgery lastedfor a few hours, but I recently
met my neurosurgeon to discusseverything with him, and he was
a very modest man.
He said it was a vitaloperation, but a simple
operation.
So I had visions of him goingin with his Black Decker and
(07:50):
hoovering out the hematoma withhis Dyson, you know.
But no, that was all fairenough.
And then I spent 10 days in acoma.
There was no such thing as amedically induced coma back in
those days, so it was a coma andI think on the 10th day I
started to show signs ofconsciousness.
But I wasn't fully consciousfor about six weeks afterwards
(08:11):
and it wasn't like in theHollywood movies where you wake
up from a coma and go.
What happened?
Where am I?
It was drip by drip by drip,like a seeping tap, and I
realized what was going on, whathad happened.
My whole right side wasparalyzed, I couldn't walk, my
(08:33):
voice had gone through aphasiaand I was being fed through an
NG tube.
So I couldn't eat and I alwaysloved my grub, but it wasn't
exactly scary.
It would have been a lot morescary if I'd have woken up
suddenly.
But because I learned over time,drip by drip, the information
(08:54):
came in bit by bit and it was.
It was just as my parents saidyou ran yourself into the ground
, so use this as a this as arest.
And the surgeons kept coming into monitor me and they kept
saying two years, two years.
That's all I heard.
But I didn't hear what they hadin brackets we reassess.
(09:18):
So they were going to give metwo years before they reassessed
and then they'd tell me whatwas going to happen long term.
Two years before theyreassessed, and then they tell
me what was going to happen longterm.
So I went from BeaumontHospital into the rehab center
in South Dublin where I wasgoing to undergo lots of physio,
OT, speech therapy all that tobring me back to the man I
(09:40):
thought I was going to be.
So I was 16 then at the timeand I thought, okay, two years,
I'll run the Dublin Marathonwhen I'm 18.
What a birthday present to givemyself.
It was in the brackets that Inever really understood the full
gravity of it back then.
I suppose the innocence ofyouth naivety.
It probably got me to where Iam, because there was always
(10:05):
that little bit of hope that I'dbe able to hammer back into my
previous skin and roll on likethis was just an episode, but I
didn't realize it was somethingthat was going to really change
my life forever.
And I suppose I was three and ahalf months in the centre in
(10:27):
Dun Laoghaire the rehab centreand I went in there in a
wheelchair, came out with a sortof a walk or, as I called it, a
wobble, and it was more likeyour 80, 90-year-old grandfather
shuffling along.
That's me as a 17-year-old, andI suppose it was all done to me
(10:49):
then to get better myself.
I was given the two years.
So I still thought naively ofthis two years I was still going
to be able to perform.
But I suppose that the sliverof hope I had became less and
less as the years went on and Ibecame more mature I realized
(11:09):
what was going on it.
It really hurt because I didn'trealize at the time I was
grieving for the body that Ionce had, the teenage body, the
fitness freak that I once had.
And I suppose, looking back nowI probably think that what the
work I put in before I gotinjured was sort of a prehab and
(11:32):
it stood to me.
It stood to me well that I wasso fit going into this that I
came out relatively not as badas a lot of people with brain
injuries do.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
What a challenge.
I mean 15, coming out of Zambiagetting on.
So when you cracked your, itwas together with the center's
head.
Was that in the front of thehead or the back of the head,
sir?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
It was just inside of my ear.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Okay, inside of the ear.
So you had rotational issues, Imean you had all kinds of, and
nobody noticed anything beforethey put you in the dugout to
give you rest.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
No, I'm just groggy.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
One of the things you do with a brain injury is, you
know, tell somebody to go tosleep because you want to
monitor them.
You know, during the time, butto your point, back in 1990, you
know there was not a lot ofconcussion awareness back then.
You know we were all.
I'm a rugby player.
I played semi-pro rugby here inAmerica.
So I I know the mentality youknow well.
(12:39):
But you know, you know it'sjust to go through that at that
age and then come out.
What was your?
I mean, obviously you know youhad your attitude.
You're Irish, you know stubborn, right, that's what we are and
you're obviously very determined.
You know how long did it takeyou to get back to?
(13:00):
I mean, you know, obviously youmight still be coming back.
But you know, tell us aboutsome of the challenges that you
know you faced.
You know you're still in gradeschool, right.
I mean you're in high schoolfor the most part, right.
So you know, all during highschool did this impact, you know
, your learning reading for awhile?
Did it delay your graduation oranything from that perspective,
(13:26):
from the cognitive side ofthings?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Absolutely.
I was one of the bestmechanical drawers in the class
at the time, in my year at thetime, and I was going to.
I was planning on being anarchitect or a draftsman.
I was going to design the world, build the biggest buildings
and the longest bridges.
But the first day I picked upthe pencil in the mechanical
drawing class, that whole sideof my brain just didn't work
(13:50):
anymore.
I couldn't grasp what wasneeded Along with the right.
Like I was right-handed, so myright hand was basically
paralyzed to, I'd say, 40, 50%.
So I had to learn how to writeagain and that side of the brain
(14:10):
it really scared me.
It really did scare me and Iburst out crying in class.
And then I changed differentclass.
I think I went to economics,which was I don't know I adored
economics.
I was probably the teacher aswell.
He was a local footballcelebrity, an international
celebrity, who taught meeconomics and he really, really
(14:31):
drove me on.
He knew what it was like tohave a bad injury.
But going back to school wasalways a huge target for me.
It was about nine months offschool.
It wasn't the honeymoon period.
I thought it would be Because,as you know, all teenagers want
to fit in.
(14:51):
They want to blend in.
I was suddenly this mess of aman with a broken brain and my
balance was poor.
My walk was very obvious.
I had a very strong limp andthe boys just shouldered me to
knock me over, to make fun of me, to slag me off, to bully me.
And I suppose the first monthor two was very scary, very
(15:16):
intimidating.
But once I learned what I had todo, I couldn't even scream back
at them because my voice was asloud as a whisper and it took
me, I suppose, a few months tolearn that I had to adapt.
So what I did was I becameinvolved with the successful
Gaelic football team in theschool and surrounded myself
(15:39):
with these athletes, these youngphysical gods, and once the
bullies saw me hanging aroundwith these guys, they knew well
they couldn't tackle me.
And then I had a good coregroup of friends who were always
there for me.
They always looked after me,they stood up to the bullies for
(16:02):
me and it was just I waswalking around like, I suppose,
the president of America, beingsurrounded by guys with suits on
and sunglasses, ready to pounceif anybody looked any way
awkward at me at all, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So what about back then?
I mean we.
You know, nowadays, if you'vegot a head injury and you're a
child, I mean obviously you weregoing through some
psychological challenges.
I mean nobody becomes goes froma fit 15 year old to a, you
know, a damaged young man.
You know without.
You know suffering from some ofthe you know depression,
(16:41):
anxiety, whatever it is thatthat hits us.
Well, nowadays they just putyou on all kinds of medication,
you know, I mean they just giveyou all kinds of pills and numb
you up.
Whatever they do.
You know, back then, you know itwas just.
You know, how'd you get throughthat?
I mean, what was, what was itthat caused you to persevere and
drive through that where youdidn't need the medications and
(17:01):
all the.
You know all the, all the, allthe crazy crud that we throw at
our kids right now.
You know, when it's needed, gotit, you got to have it, but you
know it's more of a, you knowit's more of the go-to approach
to, you know, the children rightnow that are having
psychological disorders.
Man, I mean what?
How did you get through it?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Well, I mean, how did you get through it?
Well, I was on a certainmedication to prevent seizures,
which I took hundreds of themwhen I was in the coal mine in
the early days.
But I knew myself, I knew myown head as a 17, 18-year-old
that I would not take a seizure.
So I, quickly enough, binnedthat medication and what really
(17:42):
drove me through the 80s and 90swas my parents.
80s and 90s, ireland wasn't, asI suppose, rich as it is these
days.
I got everything I needed butnever anything I wanted because
we couldn't afford it.
So it was the tough love backthen.
(18:03):
I know these days it's allpolitical correctness, you can't
tell people to pull yourselftogether or anything like that
at all, but back then I think itworked for me.
And even these days when I'mhaving a bad day, my wife is the
one, she's, the first one toknow, to tell me to cop on to
myself.
And it doesn't work these days,but for me it works.
(18:27):
That tough love.
And I suppose you mentioned aword called stubborn.
There it was stubborn, Isuppose, my thickness, as we
call it over here.
I think there's a word thesedays, resilience they call it,
but that wasn't invented back inthe 80s and 90s.
So it was just.
It was the thickness I had toget on, the stubbornness, my
(18:47):
dogmatic nature, and I suppose Ireally wanted to prove to
myself and to other people thatI was capable of living an
independent life.
I didn't have to bemollycoddled for the rest of my
life Like mom and dad wrapped mein cotton wool.
Obviously they would.
They looked after me.
They always had my back, butthe first chance I got was I'd
(19:12):
read about this new drug and I'dalways wanted to try this new
drug.
It was called travel and that'swhat was going to make me
independent.
It was going to prove to myparents, my family, my friends
that I could do so much withoutthem.
And travel was the next chapterin my life that really drove me
(19:35):
on.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
So let's talk about the title of the book, because
it sounded like you know, whenyou said bang on here, said bang
on the air, that we alwaysminimize concussions, right,
whether we're the player thatwants to stay on the field
that's something for our parentsto take a look at or the
coaches that don't want to losetheir star player there's a
variety of inputs going on thatwe're always trying to minimize
(20:02):
these concussions.
And obviously you know,bleeding from the ear you have a
.
You know you had a serious,serious one.
But when you first got up, Imean, what did the coach say?
I was just, you know, shrug itoff, get back out there.
Did you shrug it off?
But you know, obviously with atitle like that, there was some
(20:22):
attempt to minimize theconcussion.
Because back then and I'm a guythat's woken up in the middle
of many rugby fields from takingknees to the head and a whole
nine yards and then you get itback up and you just go find the
play and go make a tackle andget back in there.
So back then, you know, we talkabout the stigma of sports and
how you got to be a man and wetake these very, very serious
(20:47):
impacts to our brains and wetake them lightly a lot.
So it hasn't changed, but it'schanging.
But it sounds like.
Back then it was like ah, justa little knock, man, get back
there and play.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Well, I played rugby for years with my school and
with the club and I never gotinjured.
I think I got a bruised kidneyat one stage from a nasty tackle
.
But I was your typical wiryscrum half who, okay, the big
lads.
They don't get a chance to runfrom the scrum, so you hop on
(21:19):
top of them but you don't letthem get any chance of a run at
all.
The title of the book stemmedfrom a song from the Waterboys.
There's a very famous songcalled the Bang on the Ear, and
it's what the bang on the ear inScottish means a kiss.
So I was trying to look it up.
(21:43):
Look it up, it's very cool.
But this is what I really wantedto portray.
A little bang on the ear waswhat happened to me.
It was innocuous at the time.
You'd seen worse.
You know, on anything you'dseen worse.
But this particular day, thisparticular point in time and the
(22:05):
particular point where I washit probably just below the
temple made for a very dangerousoutcome, a very serious outcome
.
But I think the key these daysis education.
It is improving.
It's very, very slowlyimproving, but when I'm on the
(22:25):
sideline I know things quickerthan other people do and if a
kid gets a bang on the head, I'mglued to that kid from the
sideline to make sure thatthey're looking good, because
and then I'd start screaming myvoice has improved more than a
(22:48):
whisper these days, and refs,managers, coaches they can all
hear me when I want to be heard.
So I'll tell the officials toget that child off the pitch and
keep an eye on that child.
And I have the backup now toprove it, because it might only
have been a little clash in theairport.
So was mine.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Absolutely, and we're trying to get parents I mean,
you just touched on a greatpoint Education is one of the
big things that we're pushingfor, because we're, you know, we
we have, no, we have minimaleducation with parents on not
just concussions but how torecognize them and then how to
follow up on them, becauseconcussions like what happened
to our son obviously had impactsthat he wasn't aware of.
(23:33):
They didn't show, and you haveto really stay on top of these
kids.
When you're on the sideline,are you there as like a
physician assistant, are youlike a trainer or you're just?
Are you there as a fan, aspectator?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
What capacity are you ?
I'm there as a dad.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Nice Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
A lot of people know my story.
If I'm screaming my head off,they know it's serious.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
And to get that child off, to get that child seen to
monitor.
Like everybody knows their ownkid, everybody wants their kid
to do well, to do better.
If they're a good player, theydon't want them coming off.
But if I'm on the sidelinescooting, up and down in my
power chair, they'll understandwhy I'm being suddenly so
(24:25):
serious about this, roger.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
And so in Ireland, right now, in America, we have
no head soccer till the age of12.
And we're pushing that to go atleast to 14, now where the
prefrontal cortex starts todevelop.
Right, the CEO of the brain, westill have no restrictions on
(24:50):
kids tackling in football, whichis horrible right now.
I mean they're starting at theage of six, which we're trying
to educate parents is nothealthy for the child.
It's nothing against the sport.
I still love playing football,I mean rugby, and I'm 62 years
old, right, so you know.
But there comes a time where wehave to understand that it's
(25:10):
these knocks when the brain'sdeveloping.
I mean, you were a 15-year-old,you had 10 years more of
development within your brainthat you still had to go on, and
you had been playing sports forhow long, sir, since I could
walk, walk right.
And now you look at the size ofthe athletes that are compared
(25:32):
to when we were children.
Right, you and I are roughlythe same age.
Right, I'm a little bit olderthan you.
You look at these guys andgirls now they're faster,
they're bigger than ever, andthus they're faster, they're
bigger than ever and thusthey're hitting harder and
they're causing the brain toshake more violently with those
hits um in ireland right now.
Are there any limitations, uh,in youth rugby, youth soccer
(25:54):
right now, from hitting the ballor tackling that you are aware
of?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I think in rugby they start off with the tag rugby at
underage.
I'm not sure what age theystart tackling properly at.
It could be under 10s, under12s, I guess it's under 10s.
It starts becoming veryphysical at that age.
In soccer there's norestrictions, but the killer for
me is the killer for me isthey're still heading the ball
(26:22):
at every age, and I don't knowwhether you've ever heard of a
manager called Brian Clough nosir.
Brian Clough was a very, veryfamous England manager back in
the day.
He brought his side to EuropeanCups and won them, and he was a
very outspoken guy for his time.
He used to say if God had meantfootball to be played in the
(26:46):
sky, he'd have put grass in theair.
It's called football for areason Keep it on the ground,
you know, that's.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, we're trying to get that fixed here in America
right now because you know, wefind that, you know, if we just
even took the exposure out ofpractice, we could save 80% of
the exposure to these headimpacts and give these kids a
chance to become adults and notseverely impacted.
Because, you know, when youstart extending the amount of
(27:29):
time of exposure to these headhits right, you really start
extending the amount of damageto the brain and I can feel that
when you're screaming, there'ssomething going on there that
they better start payingattention, because obviously,
again, you're educated, you'reaware paying attention because
obviously, again, you'reeducated, you're aware there is
a program called Heads Up thatwe work with Heads Smart, I
(27:50):
think that we work with inEurope.
In England it's a anti-headingsoccer program for kids and
they're having a lot of successin getting parents to listen
nowadays about the impacts ofthese repetitive head impacts on
the ball.
So we'd like to work with youon that because that is I mean
(28:12):
you just brought up one of thelargest problem that we have
right now is education.
We don't need more of thesesignificant impacts like what
happened to you, phil, when youwere a young man and you know
that's that is you know thatdoesn't happen every day in
football, but it does.
The hitting of the ball happensevery day and we need to take
(28:33):
the lessons that we've learnedfrom you know that you've
learned and pass those on to ourchildren.
Are you?
From an educational perspective, it sounds like you're heavily
involved in, you know, inilluminating the issue of
contact sports and brain damageand or the potential for brain
(28:53):
damage, and what we need to doto do a better job of you know,
of recognizing the problem,diagnosing the problem and
treating the issue.
All three of those areas werenot obviously done properly when
you had your head hit, becauseof just the time and
circumstances.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, now I've spoken at length on this for local
acquired brain injury islands.
That Federation set up toeducate people in this country
and advocate for them.
But I think that the biggestthing I could do is, if I'm
rolled out across the world toshow parents exactly what could
(29:37):
happen.
I can.
I can arrive in my power chairand I can destroy their toes if
they don't believe me.
I just roll right over them.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Good for you.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
No, no, I'd speak to anybody.
I'd argue with anybody whowants to argue with me over this
.
It's like as a child I didn'tsign any form consent form to
say this is what I knew couldhappen.
But these days people know theseriousness of it, they know the
gravity, they know exactly whatcould happen.
They don't want this.
(30:14):
They don't want what happenedto me to happen to their own
child For the sake of an extragoal, an extra three points,
whatever it is.
If they see me, I can speak tothem and tell them exactly what
I've been through.
They don't want to go throughwhat my parents went through.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Absolutely not, and I can feel the passion in your
voice because you've taken atragedy and turned it around to
build hope for others.
When you get into thesearguments, or when you talk on
the subject of brain injury,what are the primary points that
(30:55):
you're trying to get across,especially when it pertains to
children?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Well, you said it yourself At underage there
shouldn't be any head contact.
You can describe it, you cancoach, you can talk about it.
But that seems to me that themain distraction of parents
these days, they don't want tolisten to this Because maybe
it'll never happen to mesyndrome, it'll never happen to
(31:21):
my child syndrome, who knows?
I like to get across the pointthat, yeah, play football, or
soccer as it's called over there, play rugby, but you don't need
the hard impacts just yet,right?
Yep, late teens is good enough.
Some coaches might say it's toolate at that stage, but if I
(31:44):
save one kid from going throughwhat I went through, that's a
good enough job done.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Absolutely, sir, and that's some of the points that
we're trying to make.
Back here in America we work.
I don't know if you know WillieStewart.
He's one of the premier brainexperts out of Scotland there,
Glasgow.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, I spoke with Willie in Trinity College last
month.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Did you?
Willie's an amazing cat.
We're going to have money.
He's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
I brought my 10-year-old son with me and
Willie stood up and gave hishalf-hour data analysis,
everything.
And then I got up and I saidsorry, willie, but I was invited
here to lighten the mood alittle bit and Willie has been
an extraordinary man and he'sbeen a great help to me with my
(32:34):
book.
So he just laughed that off andI think everyone in the room
was stunned that I'd come tospeak on this subject and for me
it was a privilege to speak inthe hallowed, that I'd come to
speak on this subject and for meit was a privilege to speak in
the hallowed halls of TrinityCollege, one of the oldest
universities in the world, andto be spoken about there.
I think my granny always saidI'd make it to Trinity College
(32:55):
and I think maybe to some extentshe was there on my shoulder,
which was a bit scary, but Ithink she delighted to hear that
I finally made it to TrinityCollege.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I mean, do you know that?
You probably already know this,but I don't think our viewers
know.
Every year they have thissoccer game and they have all
these old professional athleteswhat do you call them?
The Hall of Famers?
Right, they all show up andthey play one half of this
charity game hitting the.
What do you call them?
You know, like the, the hall offamers, right, they all show up
and they play one half of thischarity game hitting the ball,
(33:28):
and then one half.
There's no hitting at all.
And at the end of the game, youknow they.
They asked these players.
They played thousands of games.
There were professional soccerplayers, professional
footballers, and they said, hey,you know what was the
difference?
And they'd all said to thepoint.
They said, hey, you know whatwas the difference.
And they all said, to the point, they said, honestly, there was
none right.
So I do think we are movingrapidly to an era where there's
(33:49):
not going to be any heading insoccer.
You know it's just going to,naturally, once we understand
what it does to our brain, thetragedy that is left in the
sports room with, not only withthe players, but the families
that have to be caretakers,their children that lose their
fathers and mothers at extremelyyoung ages.
You know this is and it's allpreventable.
It is all preventable by nothaving, you know contact.
(34:14):
Now we do have, you know,tragedies like yours, phil,
where you had an enormous, youknow, collision between two
players on the field, but if youweren't going to head the ball,
you probably wouldn't have beengoing for the ball in the first
place.
So you know, I mean the factthat it's moving in that
direction.
It's efforts like yours rightnow, your story, that's driving
(34:38):
you know the way that you knowyou are helping move that ball
in that direction.
You are helping move that ballin that direction and we are
extremely thankful for what youhave.
Tell us a little bit about thebook, I mean, as we get ready to
close out the show, where canpeople find you?
I mean, where is it?
How do they buy it?
We'll definitely promote it.
We'll put it all over oursocial media and website,
(35:00):
because you're one of the youknow there are.
You know we meet people on thisshow all the time that have
turned their you know tragedyand I just want to say your, you
know, your, your, your, yourperspective, your perception,
your I mean your perspective onthis.
You know, having endured such atragedy at 15, and here you are
(35:22):
talking about this and tryingto help others.
That is an amazing testimony toyou as a person, mr Quinton,
and I can only thank you as aparent, as a grandfather now old
guy as a player, a sportsplayer for speaking out on this
topic and using the profoundimpact that this has had on your
(35:45):
life to help others.
And you're doing that not onlycoming on this show, but you've
wrote a book.
So tell our viewers a littlebit more about this book so we
know where to find it and wherethey can find you, sir.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, I've always been a voracious reader of
sports biographies and I've readsome good, some bad, and I
thought I'd like to pen onemyself one day.
So it was 2016 and I was on thebeach and I broke my hip.
I had a stupid fall.
(36:19):
I fell down and broke my hip.
Stupid fall, I fell down andbroke my hip.
So this gave me three months towrite, I suppose, to chronicle
80,000 words of my own story.
So I thought, right, I'll sendthis away to publishers.
Reject, reject, reject.
A lot like my teenage love life, really.
You know.
Reject, reject, reject.
I didn't want it to be justabout Jack Trevo.
(36:44):
No, I didn't want it to be justabout the injury.
I didn't want it to be a sadstory.
I wanted it to be aninspirational story.
So I got in touch with a friendwho'd written an article about
me and brain injuries back in2014.
I asked him would he know ofanybody that might want to ghost
(37:04):
my story?
And he perked up straight awayand says, yep, I would.
So I suppose his little changesand tweaks really made it what
it was.
He's a fantastic guy.
I think he's one of the firstIrish journalists to interview
an NFL player.
(37:25):
You'd have to look after him.
Contact him for that.
Steve O'Rourke is his name.
He's a very, very talentedbloke.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Good.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Irish name.
Yeah, it came down to writingit all.
We wrote about 80% of it and Isubmitted it to another O'Brien
Publishers one of the oldestindependent publishing companies
in Ireland, and got a phonecall from Michael O'Brien, the
(37:57):
head man, one week before Ithink we finished up for the
summer holidays and he said,phil, I want to publish a book.
And I just I just burst outcrying this was, it was a dream
come true, and it was.
It was originally just writtenfor for Eileen and Joe, my kids,
(38:18):
just as sort of a keepsake toshow them what I'd been through,
what I, what I would go throughfor them, to show them what I'd
been through, what I would gothrough for them.
And it turned into this numberone bestseller in Ireland in
March 23.
And I was blown away by thefeedback.
The launch had over 400 peoplein one room and we sold out
within minutes which we probablyshould have had a few more
(38:41):
books there.
But people came from all overthe world to that An
ex-girlfriend of mine who I'dmet in New Jersey back in 96,
she was from the Czech Republic,she was stalking me on Facebook
and she arrived at the launchmuch to the consternation of my
wife who wanted to know who thisgirl was planting her lips on
(39:03):
mine.
But it all went very well.
We had a couple of keynotespeakers there.
They were.
They remembered it happeningand they helped me with the book
.
Amazingly, willie Stewart wasone of them who helped me a lot.
I've just after sending ChrisNowinski a copy so he can add it
(39:23):
to his library or sell it onAmazon, whatever he wants to do.
But no, that was it was.
It was great to have done it.
But the real reasoning didn'tcome until afterwards, when all
these hard men in the town camestrolling up to me.
Who'd only ever noticed mebefore him strolling up and
(39:43):
saying son, I want to shake yourhand.
I never knew what happened.
I never knew the pain you'regoing through.
I didn't know what you're goingthrough.
I'd seen you walk and I'd crossthe road because I didn't want
to catch the disease off you orcatch the disability off you.
No, it's that's what like.
Travelling over the world wasimmense for that.
Because off you, no, it'sthat's what like.
The traveling traveling overthe world was was immense for
(40:06):
that.
Because Ireland is so backwardwith disabilities and I'm always
.
They thought I was drunk and theway I walk and lose my balance.
So I walk around like a drunk.
So if walks like a duck andquacks like a duck, it must be a
drunken duck.
I've actually been thrown outof a pub for walking around like
(40:37):
a drunk and I don't even drinkthat much.
You know, people ask me was it acathartic experience writing
the book?
It was harder living the lifethan writing the book because,
as it turns out, I wanted thebook to be like.
It's a love letter to sport andwhen you get the book,
(40:58):
everything is referenced by adifferent game, by a different
experience the Olympic OlympicGames in Sydney, which I worked
at.
I finally made it to my OlympicGames in a different guise of
Central Operations and I got tosneak in to see Sonia O'Sullivan
(41:20):
win silver in the 5,000 metrefinal.
If she'd have won, I would havebeen arrested for wobbling
across the track to hug her.
It's a great experience, youknow.
So no, I'm delighted I've doneit.
I'm so.
I'm not even so last year now,I'm so two years ago.
But it's great to have done itand it's podcasts like these and
(41:47):
interviews in Trinity Collegethat keep me going.
So I still think that the WorldBook Tour is going to happen one
day, and I don't really want tosay too much, but I'm writing a
screenplay at the moment, sohopefully the movie gets taken
by spielberg or somebody soon.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Well, we, we would love to see that that's.
That's amazing.
I mean, what a, what a journeythat you've been on and here you
are, you know, full of hope,you know, trying to help, and
and and and and I noticed thatyou just you put it perfectly
when you said, you know youtalked about sports.
It was a love letter to sports.
None of us want to see sportsgo away.
(42:26):
None of us want, you know,anything other than to make
sports safer and they can bemade safer, learning from.
You know your tragedy.
You know my tragedy.
You know my son took his lifeafter playing contact sports and
was diagnosed up there.
(42:48):
He's with Nowinski's all thatwhole brain bank up there.
You know these are alltragedies that we have to turn
around and to to impact thefuture of our children and
there's plenty of adults outthere that are suffering, that
were footballers for a long,long time, who have no idea that
their psychological, cognitive,behavioral disorders could be
(43:10):
emanating from that trauma thatthey incurred from their teens
into their 20s and, if they're aprofessional baller, into their
30s.
So we have a lot to do, phil,and you're part of that journey
and you're part of our family.
So we have a conference everyyear.
This one's going to be inOrlando.
We'll make sure that you get aninvite.
Congratulations on the book andman prayers for your movie.
(43:35):
That would be absolutelyamazing if you pull that off.
And but as we close out theshow, any words for our parents.
If you have a website or wherethey can buy the book if it's on
Amazon or something like thatplease let them know.
But you know what's next forPhil.
What do you got planned rightnow You're obviously a happy man
(43:58):
.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
The book is available in Barnes and Noble, over with
you guys at the moment.
So if you just click onto theirwebsite and a bang on the ear,
what's next for me?
Well, I've been trialing anexo-pulse suit, an exo-skeleton
suit minimal improvements.
I just want to get the bodyback to some form of fitness
(44:19):
where I can walk a bit further.
My stamina is poor.
The winter doesn't do me toowell at all.
I love being in a sauna, thatsort of heat.
So Orlando would be kind ofcool.
I suppose my kids are what keepme going, and my wife these
(44:40):
days.
So if they're progressing intheir football, their soccer,
their Gaelic football, hurling,that's what really strikes me.
It'd be great to see themprogress to a level that I know
they're capable of.
So hopefully one day I'll bewatching down from a stand in
(45:02):
some big arena or a stadium andcheering them on from that
Beautiful Well, mr Phil, Icannot express our gratitude to
you coming on the show.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Take care of those kids' brains.
Nobody knows this better thanyou and you know.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show, sharing your
experience, sharing your wordsof wisdom and helping us push
for advocacy and bettereducation on the issue of
repetitive head trauma and TBIsand what we have to do to
successfully recuperate fromthem.
I cannot thank you enough forbeing on the show, sir.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Bruce, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
All.
Right, sir, go back to bed.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, thank you so much To all.
Sir, go back to go back to bed.
Oh, yeah, thank you so much.
So all our fans out there,viewers, thank you so much for
uh participating in a podcast,listening to the podcast today.
You can find us on Spotify,Apple, buzzsprout.
Uh, please don't forget, notonly when you go look at um Phil
Quinlan's book A Bang on theEar.
Download our free book on thewebsite so that you're up to
(46:02):
date on the latest research andscience.
We'll be coming out with anewsletter this year.
Please stay in touch.
We have a wonderful 2025 comingup in terms of brain health.
It will be better for ourchildren, for our athletes, for
our military.
Thank you all for listening toBroken Brains.
I'm Bruce Barkman signing off.
Take care.
Thanks again, phil, you, thankyou.
Hey folks, welcome back to another show of Broken
Brains with Bruce Parkman,sponsored by the Mack Parkman
Foundation, where we focus onthe issue of repetitive brain
trauma whether it's repetitivehead impact from sports or
repetitive blast exposure forour military veterans, and what
these impacts are doing to thelives of veterans, athletes and
children and the challenges theyface.
(00:33):
And what do we need to do as asociety to go ahead and do a
better job to make our sportssafer and protect our military
veterans from the impact of theservice and the training that
they undergo.
We reach out to researchers andscientists and people that have
suffered through thesetragedies and have turned them
around in lives in order to giveyou the latest information in
(00:55):
science and research on what wecan do about the impact of
mental illness, psychologicaland behavioral disorders that
come from these types oftragedies.
With us today anotherfascinating guest, mr Phil
Quinlan.
Mr Phil Quinlan is from themotherland of Ireland.
Here he is the survivor of amassive TBI that occurred when
(01:18):
he was a very young man infootball.
He wrote a book called and aBang on the Ear, which seems to
be an amazing review of what hehas been through as a survivor
of a TBI.
He has a beautiful wife, twokids and he works as a patients
and special needs assistant atSt Mary's Special School, again
(01:42):
in the motherland of Ireland.
Mr Gwynlyn, always a pleasureto have guests come in from
overseas and really appreciatethe time that you're taking to
talk to us today, sir.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Bruce thanks a million for having me on and
Dennis thanks a million.
It's always a pleasure to speakto guys who want to learn a bit
more about TBIs and ABIs andsports injuries, mental health.
It's all huge.
But I suppose my story is alittle bit different to a lot of
(02:13):
the stories out there.
I was the fittest young guy inthe town, the fittest
15-year-old going.
I'd previously grown up in aplace called Zambia where I had
to climb trees and I wasswimming rivers and I was
basically Tarzan, but obviouslyTarzan with an Irish accent and
Tippex legs.
But no, we relocated to Nav in81 and I kept on running, kept
(02:39):
on swimming and kept on cycling.
And it was those days when theOlympics were fascinating for me
.
I always wanted to challengemyself to be better, faster,
jump higher, run for longerdistances.
All that and I promised myselfone day I'd go to the Olympics
to represent Ireland, Whetherthat be in the marathon, the
(03:03):
10,000 meters.
I'd probably run both of themon the same day and win both of
them.
That was how fit I was.
I ran for my county.
I represented my club onvarious occasions the school
county medals.
I was a really, really fit guy.
One day, I suppose I joinedParkville at the local soccer
(03:26):
club and Dad had played withthem years previously and won
countless medals with them.
I just wanted to be Dad asevery young fellow does, I'd say
and I went along to play on avery, very foggy morning against
the local rivals.
The fog was immense, we didn'tthink the game would go ahead.
(03:46):
But we arrived at this backwardlittle town and the referee
came along on his Honda 50 andhis welly boots and we just
cracked up laughing at that,because as 15-year-olds,
anything different is funny.
So the game kicked off anywayin immense darkness.
(04:10):
I think the ref just wanted hismoney, so that's why he played
on.
And I suppose about 10 minutesbefore half time the ball came
head height to me and my headclashed against the centre
half's head and it was a veryinnocuous clash.
(04:31):
I'd had worse hits in my life,but never on my head.
And next thing was I went down,got the magic sponge applied.
The referee came over and askedme what day it was, what the
magic sponge applied.
The referee came over and askedme what day it was, what the
score was, where we were.
I answered everything correctlyso he deemed me okay, play on.
(04:53):
So about five minutes later Istarted to feel woozy.
I turned around to face theball and I just kept spinning.
I didn't realize it wasconcussion.
But looking back now, beingmore mature and all the signs of
concussion, I started to feelsick.
I wasn't able to kick the ball,so I was taken off at halftime
(05:19):
and thrown into the dugout andtold to fall asleep.
That was 35 years ago and Ithink I was probably one of the
first people ever told to fallasleep.
That was 35 years ago and Ithink I was probably one of the
first people ever to inventconcussion.
Nobody knew the signs, nobodyknew what to do, so it was
probably better off that I justfell asleep and wasn't hassling
everyone by talking.
So I was going incredibly well.
(05:43):
I was dreaming.
I had some really weird dreams.
I didn't realize it was aperfect storm for me.
(06:07):
It was Sunday afternoon, traffic, the fog was terribly bad, the
roads were very small, the busdriver couldn't overtake, he
just kept beeping everyone and Isuppose what would normally be
a 10-minute journey was a45-minute journey and I arrived
at the local hospital and I'mnot sure they knew exactly what
(06:28):
to do with me, because I wascoherent, I was conscious, I was
answering questions to them,but as a precaution they decided
to send me to the head injuryhospital in Dublin, to the head
injury hospital in Dublin.
So I had to wait for anambulance, which was another
hour to wait, and on the way upto Dublin I regressed on the way
(06:54):
and just as we arrived at thefront door of the hospital I
arrested and thankfully theambulance man had radioed ahead
to say what state I was in.
I was deteriorating rapidly.
The resource team were there,they brought me back to life and
(07:23):
then I was put into a CTscanner which revealed a huge,
ever-growing hematoma, or clotas it was back in the day, and
that had to be removed.
I think that the surgery lastedfor a few hours, but I recently
met my neurosurgeon to discusseverything with him, and he was
a very modest man.
He said it was a vitaloperation, but a simple
operation.
So I had visions of him goingin with his Black Decker and
(07:50):
hoovering out the hematoma withhis Dyson, you know.
But no, that was all fairenough.
And then I spent 10 days in acoma.
There was no such thing as amedically induced coma back in
those days, so it was a coma andI think on the 10th day I
started to show signs ofconsciousness.
But I wasn't fully consciousfor about six weeks afterwards
(08:11):
and it wasn't like in theHollywood movies where you wake
up from a coma and go.
What happened?
Where am I?
It was drip by drip by drip,like a seeping tap, and I
realized what was going on, whathad happened.
My whole right side wasparalyzed, I couldn't walk, my
(08:33):
voice had gone through aphasiaand I was being fed through an
NG tube.
So I couldn't eat and I alwaysloved my grub, but it wasn't
exactly scary.
It would have been a lot morescary if I'd have woken up
suddenly.
But because I learned over time,drip by drip, the information
(08:54):
came in bit by bit and it was.
It was just as my parents saidyou ran yourself into the ground
, so use this as a this as arest.
And the surgeons kept coming into monitor me and they kept
saying two years, two years.
That's all I heard.
But I didn't hear what they hadin brackets we reassess.
(09:18):
So they were going to give metwo years before they reassessed
and then they'd tell me whatwas going to happen long term.
Two years before theyreassessed, and then they tell
me what was going to happen longterm.
So I went from BeaumontHospital into the rehab center
in South Dublin where I wasgoing to undergo lots of physio,
OT, speech therapy all that tobring me back to the man I
(09:40):
thought I was going to be.
So I was 16 then at the timeand I thought, okay, two years,
I'll run the Dublin Marathonwhen I'm 18.
What a birthday present to givemyself.
It was in the brackets that Inever really understood the full
gravity of it back then.
I suppose the innocence ofyouth naivety.
It probably got me to where Iam, because there was always
(10:05):
that little bit of hope that I'dbe able to hammer back into my
previous skin and roll on likethis was just an episode, but I
didn't realize it was somethingthat was going to really change
my life forever.
And I suppose I was three and ahalf months in the centre in
(10:27):
Dun Laoghaire the rehab centreand I went in there in a
wheelchair, came out with a sortof a walk or, as I called it, a
wobble, and it was more likeyour 80, 90-year-old grandfather
shuffling along.
That's me as a 17-year-old, andI suppose it was all done to me
(10:49):
then to get better myself.
I was given the two years.
So I still thought naively ofthis two years I was still going
to be able to perform.
But I suppose that the sliverof hope I had became less and
less as the years went on and Ibecame more mature I realized
(11:09):
what was going on it.
It really hurt because I didn'trealize at the time I was
grieving for the body that Ionce had, the teenage body, the
fitness freak that I once had.
And I suppose, looking back nowI probably think that what the
work I put in before I gotinjured was sort of a prehab and
(11:32):
it stood to me.
It stood to me well that I wasso fit going into this that I
came out relatively not as badas a lot of people with brain
injuries do.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
What a challenge.
I mean 15, coming out of Zambiagetting on.
So when you cracked your, itwas together with the center's
head.
Was that in the front of thehead or the back of the head,
sir?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
It was just inside of my ear.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Okay, inside of the ear.
So you had rotational issues, Imean you had all kinds of, and
nobody noticed anything beforethey put you in the dugout to
give you rest.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
No, I'm just groggy.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
One of the things you do with a brain injury is, you
know, tell somebody to go tosleep because you want to
monitor them.
You know, during the time, butto your point, back in 1990, you
know there was not a lot ofconcussion awareness back then.
You know we were all.
I'm a rugby player.
I played semi-pro rugby here inAmerica.
So I I know the mentality youknow well.
(12:39):
But you know, you know it'sjust to go through that at that
age and then come out.
What was your?
I mean, obviously you know youhad your attitude.
You're Irish, you know stubborn, right, that's what we are and
you're obviously very determined.
You know how long did it takeyou to get back to?
(13:00):
I mean, you know, obviously youmight still be coming back.
But you know, tell us aboutsome of the challenges that you
know you faced.
You know you're still in gradeschool, right.
I mean you're in high schoolfor the most part, right.
So you know, all during highschool did this impact, you know
, your learning reading for awhile?
Did it delay your graduation oranything from that perspective,
(13:26):
from the cognitive side ofthings?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Absolutely.
I was one of the bestmechanical drawers in the class
at the time, in my year at thetime, and I was going to.
I was planning on being anarchitect or a draftsman.
I was going to design the world, build the biggest buildings
and the longest bridges.
But the first day I picked upthe pencil in the mechanical
drawing class, that whole sideof my brain just didn't work
(13:50):
anymore.
I couldn't grasp what wasneeded Along with the right.
Like I was right-handed, so myright hand was basically
paralyzed to, I'd say, 40, 50%.
So I had to learn how to writeagain and that side of the brain
(14:10):
it really scared me.
It really did scare me and Iburst out crying in class.
And then I changed differentclass.
I think I went to economics,which was I don't know I adored
economics.
I was probably the teacher aswell.
He was a local footballcelebrity, an international
celebrity, who taught meeconomics and he really, really
(14:31):
drove me on.
He knew what it was like tohave a bad injury.
But going back to school wasalways a huge target for me.
It was about nine months offschool.
It wasn't the honeymoon period.
I thought it would be Because,as you know, all teenagers want
to fit in.
(14:51):
They want to blend in.
I was suddenly this mess of aman with a broken brain and my
balance was poor.
My walk was very obvious.
I had a very strong limp andthe boys just shouldered me to
knock me over, to make fun of me, to slag me off, to bully me.
And I suppose the first monthor two was very scary, very
(15:16):
intimidating.
But once I learned what I had todo, I couldn't even scream back
at them because my voice was asloud as a whisper and it took
me, I suppose, a few months tolearn that I had to adapt.
So what I did was I becameinvolved with the successful
Gaelic football team in theschool and surrounded myself
(15:39):
with these athletes, these youngphysical gods, and once the
bullies saw me hanging aroundwith these guys, they knew well
they couldn't tackle me.
And then I had a good coregroup of friends who were always
there for me.
They always looked after me,they stood up to the bullies for
(16:02):
me and it was just I waswalking around like, I suppose,
the president of America, beingsurrounded by guys with suits on
and sunglasses, ready to pounceif anybody looked any way
awkward at me at all, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So what about back then?
I mean we.
You know, nowadays, if you'vegot a head injury and you're a
child, I mean obviously you weregoing through some
psychological challenges.
I mean nobody becomes goes froma fit 15 year old to a, you
know, a damaged young man.
You know without.
You know suffering from some ofthe you know depression,
(16:41):
anxiety, whatever it is thatthat hits us.
Well, nowadays they just putyou on all kinds of medication,
you know, I mean they just giveyou all kinds of pills and numb
you up.
Whatever they do.
You know, back then, you know itwas just.
You know, how'd you get throughthat?
I mean, what was, what was itthat caused you to persevere and
drive through that where youdidn't need the medications and
(17:01):
all the.
You know all the, all the, allthe crazy crud that we throw at
our kids right now.
You know, when it's needed, gotit, you got to have it, but you
know it's more of a, you knowit's more of the go-to approach
to, you know, the children rightnow that are having
psychological disorders.
Man, I mean what?
How did you get through it?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Well, I mean, how did you get through it?
Well, I was on a certainmedication to prevent seizures,
which I took hundreds of themwhen I was in the coal mine in
the early days.
But I knew myself, I knew myown head as a 17, 18-year-old
that I would not take a seizure.
So I, quickly enough, binnedthat medication and what really
(17:42):
drove me through the 80s and 90swas my parents.
80s and 90s, ireland wasn't, asI suppose, rich as it is these
days.
I got everything I needed butnever anything I wanted because
we couldn't afford it.
So it was the tough love backthen.
(18:03):
I know these days it's allpolitical correctness, you can't
tell people to pull yourselftogether or anything like that
at all, but back then I think itworked for me.
And even these days when I'mhaving a bad day, my wife is the
one, she's, the first one toknow, to tell me to cop on to
myself.
And it doesn't work these days,but for me it works.
(18:27):
That tough love.
And I suppose you mentioned aword called stubborn.
There it was stubborn, Isuppose, my thickness, as we
call it over here.
I think there's a word thesedays, resilience they call it,
but that wasn't invented back inthe 80s and 90s.
So it was just.
It was the thickness I had toget on, the stubbornness, my
(18:47):
dogmatic nature, and I suppose Ireally wanted to prove to
myself and to other people thatI was capable of living an
independent life.
I didn't have to bemollycoddled for the rest of my
life Like mom and dad wrapped mein cotton wool.
Obviously they would.
They looked after me.
They always had my back, butthe first chance I got was I'd
(19:12):
read about this new drug and I'dalways wanted to try this new
drug.
It was called travel and that'swhat was going to make me
independent.
It was going to prove to myparents, my family, my friends
that I could do so much withoutthem.
And travel was the next chapterin my life that really drove me
(19:35):
on.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
So let's talk about the title of the book, because
it sounded like you know, whenyou said bang on here, said bang
on the air, that we alwaysminimize concussions, right,
whether we're the player thatwants to stay on the field
that's something for our parentsto take a look at or the
coaches that don't want to losetheir star player there's a
variety of inputs going on thatwe're always trying to minimize
(20:02):
these concussions.
And obviously you know,bleeding from the ear you have a
.
You know you had a serious,serious one.
But when you first got up, Imean, what did the coach say?
I was just, you know, shrug itoff, get back out there.
Did you shrug it off?
But you know, obviously with atitle like that, there was some
(20:22):
attempt to minimize theconcussion.
Because back then and I'm a guythat's woken up in the middle
of many rugby fields from takingknees to the head and a whole
nine yards and then you get itback up and you just go find the
play and go make a tackle andget back in there.
So back then, you know, we talkabout the stigma of sports and
how you got to be a man and wetake these very, very serious
(20:47):
impacts to our brains and wetake them lightly a lot.
So it hasn't changed, but it'schanging.
But it sounds like.
Back then it was like ah, justa little knock, man, get back
there and play.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Well, I played rugby for years with my school and
with the club and I never gotinjured.
I think I got a bruised kidneyat one stage from a nasty tackle
.
But I was your typical wiryscrum half who, okay, the big
lads.
They don't get a chance to runfrom the scrum, so you hop on
(21:19):
top of them but you don't letthem get any chance of a run at
all.
The title of the book stemmedfrom a song from the Waterboys.
There's a very famous songcalled the Bang on the Ear, and
it's what the bang on the ear inScottish means a kiss.
So I was trying to look it up.
(21:43):
Look it up, it's very cool.
But this is what I really wantedto portray.
A little bang on the ear waswhat happened to me.
It was innocuous at the time.
You'd seen worse.
You know, on anything you'dseen worse.
But this particular day, thisparticular point in time and the
(22:05):
particular point where I washit probably just below the
temple made for a very dangerousoutcome, a very serious outcome
.
But I think the key these daysis education.
It is improving.
It's very, very slowlyimproving, but when I'm on the
(22:25):
sideline I know things quickerthan other people do and if a
kid gets a bang on the head, I'mglued to that kid from the
sideline to make sure thatthey're looking good, because
and then I'd start screaming myvoice has improved more than a
(22:48):
whisper these days, and refs,managers, coaches they can all
hear me when I want to be heard.
So I'll tell the officials toget that child off the pitch and
keep an eye on that child.
And I have the backup now toprove it, because it might only
have been a little clash in theairport.
So was mine.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Absolutely, and we're trying to get parents I mean,
you just touched on a greatpoint Education is one of the
big things that we're pushingfor, because we're, you know, we
we have, no, we have minimaleducation with parents on not
just concussions but how torecognize them and then how to
follow up on them, becauseconcussions like what happened
to our son obviously had impactsthat he wasn't aware of.
(23:33):
They didn't show, and you haveto really stay on top of these
kids.
When you're on the sideline,are you there as like a
physician assistant, are youlike a trainer or you're just?
Are you there as a fan, aspectator?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
What capacity are you ?
I'm there as a dad.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Nice Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
A lot of people know my story.
If I'm screaming my head off,they know it's serious.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
And to get that child off, to get that child seen to
monitor.
Like everybody knows their ownkid, everybody wants their kid
to do well, to do better.
If they're a good player, theydon't want them coming off.
But if I'm on the sidelinescooting, up and down in my
power chair, they'll understandwhy I'm being suddenly so
(24:25):
serious about this, roger.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
And so in Ireland, right now, in America, we have
no head soccer till the age of12.
And we're pushing that to go atleast to 14, now where the
prefrontal cortex starts todevelop.
Right, the CEO of the brain, westill have no restrictions on
(24:50):
kids tackling in football, whichis horrible right now.
I mean they're starting at theage of six, which we're trying
to educate parents is nothealthy for the child.
It's nothing against the sport.
I still love playing football,I mean rugby, and I'm 62 years
old, right, so you know.
But there comes a time where wehave to understand that it's
(25:10):
these knocks when the brain'sdeveloping.
I mean, you were a 15-year-old,you had 10 years more of
development within your brainthat you still had to go on, and
you had been playing sports forhow long, sir, since I could
walk, walk right.
And now you look at the size ofthe athletes that are compared
(25:32):
to when we were children.
Right, you and I are roughlythe same age.
Right, I'm a little bit olderthan you.
You look at these guys andgirls now they're faster,
they're bigger than ever, andthus they're faster, they're
bigger than ever and thusthey're hitting harder and
they're causing the brain toshake more violently with those
hits um in ireland right now.
Are there any limitations, uh,in youth rugby, youth soccer
(25:54):
right now, from hitting the ballor tackling that you are aware
of?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I think in rugby they start off with the tag rugby at
underage.
I'm not sure what age theystart tackling properly at.
It could be under 10s, under12s, I guess it's under 10s.
It starts becoming veryphysical at that age.
In soccer there's norestrictions, but the killer for
me is the killer for me isthey're still heading the ball
(26:22):
at every age, and I don't knowwhether you've ever heard of a
manager called Brian Clough nosir.
Brian Clough was a very, veryfamous England manager back in
the day.
He brought his side to EuropeanCups and won them, and he was a
very outspoken guy for his time.
He used to say if God had meantfootball to be played in the
(26:46):
sky, he'd have put grass in theair.
It's called football for areason Keep it on the ground,
you know, that's.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, we're trying to get that fixed here in America
right now because you know, wefind that, you know, if we just
even took the exposure out ofpractice, we could save 80% of
the exposure to these headimpacts and give these kids a
chance to become adults and notseverely impacted.
Because, you know, when youstart extending the amount of
(27:29):
time of exposure to these headhits right, you really start
extending the amount of damageto the brain and I can feel that
when you're screaming, there'ssomething going on there that
they better start payingattention, because obviously,
again, you're educated, you'reaware paying attention because
obviously, again, you'reeducated, you're aware there is
a program called Heads Up thatwe work with Heads Smart, I
(27:50):
think that we work with inEurope.
In England it's a anti-headingsoccer program for kids and
they're having a lot of successin getting parents to listen
nowadays about the impacts ofthese repetitive head impacts on
the ball.
So we'd like to work with youon that because that is I mean
(28:12):
you just brought up one of thelargest problem that we have
right now is education.
We don't need more of thesesignificant impacts like what
happened to you, phil, when youwere a young man and you know
that's that is you know thatdoesn't happen every day in
football, but it does.
The hitting of the ball happensevery day and we need to take
(28:33):
the lessons that we've learnedfrom you know that you've
learned and pass those on to ourchildren.
Are you?
From an educational perspective, it sounds like you're heavily
involved in, you know, inilluminating the issue of
contact sports and brain damageand or the potential for brain
(28:53):
damage, and what we need to doto do a better job of you know,
of recognizing the problem,diagnosing the problem and
treating the issue.
All three of those areas werenot obviously done properly when
you had your head hit, becauseof just the time and
circumstances.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, now I've spoken at length on this for local
acquired brain injury islands.
That Federation set up toeducate people in this country
and advocate for them.
But I think that the biggestthing I could do is, if I'm
rolled out across the world toshow parents exactly what could
(29:37):
happen.
I can.
I can arrive in my power chairand I can destroy their toes if
they don't believe me.
I just roll right over them.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Good for you.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
No, no, I'd speak to anybody.
I'd argue with anybody whowants to argue with me over this
.
It's like as a child I didn'tsign any form consent form to
say this is what I knew couldhappen.
But these days people know theseriousness of it, they know the
gravity, they know exactly whatcould happen.
They don't want this.
(30:14):
They don't want what happenedto me to happen to their own
child For the sake of an extragoal, an extra three points,
whatever it is.
If they see me, I can speak tothem and tell them exactly what
I've been through.
They don't want to go throughwhat my parents went through.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Absolutely not, and I can feel the passion in your
voice because you've taken atragedy and turned it around to
build hope for others.
When you get into thesearguments, or when you talk on
the subject of brain injury,what are the primary points that
(30:55):
you're trying to get across,especially when it pertains to
children?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Well, you said it yourself At underage there
shouldn't be any head contact.
You can describe it, you cancoach, you can talk about it.
But that seems to me that themain distraction of parents
these days, they don't want tolisten to this Because maybe
it'll never happen to mesyndrome, it'll never happen to
(31:21):
my child syndrome, who knows?
I like to get across the pointthat, yeah, play football, or
soccer as it's called over there, play rugby, but you don't need
the hard impacts just yet,right?
Yep, late teens is good enough.
Some coaches might say it's toolate at that stage, but if I
(31:44):
save one kid from going throughwhat I went through, that's a
good enough job done.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Absolutely, sir, and that's some of the points that
we're trying to make.
Back here in America we work.
I don't know if you know WillieStewart.
He's one of the premier brainexperts out of Scotland there,
Glasgow.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, I spoke with Willie in Trinity College last
month.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Did you?
Willie's an amazing cat.
We're going to have money.
He's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
I brought my 10-year-old son with me and
Willie stood up and gave hishalf-hour data analysis,
everything.
And then I got up and I saidsorry, willie, but I was invited
here to lighten the mood alittle bit and Willie has been
an extraordinary man and he'sbeen a great help to me with my
(32:34):
book.
So he just laughed that off andI think everyone in the room
was stunned that I'd come tospeak on this subject and for me
it was a privilege to speak inthe hallowed, that I'd come to
speak on this subject and for meit was a privilege to speak in
the hallowed halls of TrinityCollege, one of the oldest
universities in the world, andto be spoken about there.
I think my granny always saidI'd make it to Trinity College
(32:55):
and I think maybe to some extentshe was there on my shoulder,
which was a bit scary, but Ithink she delighted to hear that
I finally made it to TrinityCollege.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I mean, do you know that?
You probably already know this,but I don't think our viewers
know.
Every year they have thissoccer game and they have all
these old professional athleteswhat do you call them?
The Hall of Famers?
Right, they all show up andthey play one half of this
charity game hitting the.
What do you call them?
You know, like the, the hall offamers, right, they all show up
and they play one half of thischarity game hitting the ball,
(33:28):
and then one half.
There's no hitting at all.
And at the end of the game, youknow they.
They asked these players.
They played thousands of games.
There were professional soccerplayers, professional
footballers, and they said, hey,you know what was the
difference?
And they'd all said to thepoint.
They said, hey, you know whatwas the difference.
And they all said, to the point, they said, honestly, there was
none right.
So I do think we are movingrapidly to an era where there's
(33:49):
not going to be any heading insoccer.
You know it's just going to,naturally, once we understand
what it does to our brain, thetragedy that is left in the
sports room with, not only withthe players, but the families
that have to be caretakers,their children that lose their
fathers and mothers at extremelyyoung ages.
You know this is and it's allpreventable.
It is all preventable by nothaving, you know contact.
(34:14):
Now we do have, you know,tragedies like yours, phil,
where you had an enormous, youknow, collision between two
players on the field, but if youweren't going to head the ball,
you probably wouldn't have beengoing for the ball in the first
place.
So you know, I mean the factthat it's moving in that
direction.
It's efforts like yours rightnow, your story, that's driving
(34:38):
you know the way that you knowyou are helping move that ball
in that direction.
You are helping move that ballin that direction and we are
extremely thankful for what youhave.
Tell us a little bit about thebook, I mean, as we get ready to
close out the show, where canpeople find you?
I mean, where is it?
How do they buy it?
We'll definitely promote it.
We'll put it all over oursocial media and website,
(35:00):
because you're one of the youknow there are.
You know we meet people on thisshow all the time that have
turned their you know tragedyand I just want to say your, you
know, your, your, your, yourperspective, your perception,
your I mean your perspective onthis.
You know, having endured such atragedy at 15, and here you are
(35:22):
talking about this and tryingto help others.
That is an amazing testimony toyou as a person, mr Quinton,
and I can only thank you as aparent, as a grandfather now old
guy as a player, a sportsplayer for speaking out on this
topic and using the profoundimpact that this has had on your
(35:45):
life to help others.
And you're doing that not onlycoming on this show, but you've
wrote a book.
So tell our viewers a littlebit more about this book so we
know where to find it and wherethey can find you, sir.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, I've always been a voracious reader of
sports biographies and I've readsome good, some bad, and I
thought I'd like to pen onemyself one day.
So it was 2016 and I was on thebeach and I broke my hip.
I had a stupid fall.
(36:19):
I fell down and broke my hip.
Stupid fall, I fell down andbroke my hip.
So this gave me three months towrite, I suppose, to chronicle
80,000 words of my own story.
So I thought, right, I'll sendthis away to publishers.
Reject, reject, reject.
A lot like my teenage love life, really.
You know.
Reject, reject, reject.
I didn't want it to be justabout Jack Trevo.
(36:44):
No, I didn't want it to be justabout the injury.
I didn't want it to be a sadstory.
I wanted it to be aninspirational story.
So I got in touch with a friendwho'd written an article about
me and brain injuries back in2014.
I asked him would he know ofanybody that might want to ghost
(37:04):
my story?
And he perked up straight awayand says, yep, I would.
So I suppose his little changesand tweaks really made it what
it was.
He's a fantastic guy.
I think he's one of the firstIrish journalists to interview
an NFL player.
(37:25):
You'd have to look after him.
Contact him for that.
Steve O'Rourke is his name.
He's a very, very talentedbloke.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Good.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Irish name.
Yeah, it came down to writingit all.
We wrote about 80% of it and Isubmitted it to another O'Brien
Publishers one of the oldestindependent publishing companies
in Ireland, and got a phonecall from Michael O'Brien, the
(37:57):
head man, one week before Ithink we finished up for the
summer holidays and he said,phil, I want to publish a book.
And I just I just burst outcrying this was, it was a dream
come true, and it was.
It was originally just writtenfor for Eileen and Joe, my kids,
(38:18):
just as sort of a keepsake toshow them what I'd been through,
what I, what I would go throughfor them, to show them what I'd
been through, what I would gothrough for them.
And it turned into this numberone bestseller in Ireland in
March 23.
And I was blown away by thefeedback.
The launch had over 400 peoplein one room and we sold out
within minutes which we probablyshould have had a few more
(38:41):
books there.
But people came from all overthe world to that An
ex-girlfriend of mine who I'dmet in New Jersey back in 96,
she was from the Czech Republic,she was stalking me on Facebook
and she arrived at the launchmuch to the consternation of my
wife who wanted to know who thisgirl was planting her lips on
(39:03):
mine.
But it all went very well.
We had a couple of keynotespeakers there.
They were.
They remembered it happeningand they helped me with the book
.
Amazingly, willie Stewart wasone of them who helped me a lot.
I've just after sending ChrisNowinski a copy so he can add it
(39:23):
to his library or sell it onAmazon, whatever he wants to do.
But no, that was it was.
It was great to have done it.
But the real reasoning didn'tcome until afterwards, when all
these hard men in the town camestrolling up to me.
Who'd only ever noticed mebefore him strolling up and
(39:43):
saying son, I want to shake yourhand.
I never knew what happened.
I never knew the pain you'regoing through.
I didn't know what you're goingthrough.
I'd seen you walk and I'd crossthe road because I didn't want
to catch the disease off you orcatch the disability off you.
No, it's that's what like.
Travelling over the world wasimmense for that.
Because off you, no, it'sthat's what like.
The traveling traveling overthe world was was immense for
(40:06):
that.
Because Ireland is so backwardwith disabilities and I'm always
.
They thought I was drunk and theway I walk and lose my balance.
So I walk around like a drunk.
So if walks like a duck andquacks like a duck, it must be a
drunken duck.
I've actually been thrown outof a pub for walking around like
(40:37):
a drunk and I don't even drinkthat much.
You know, people ask me was it acathartic experience writing
the book?
It was harder living the lifethan writing the book because,
as it turns out, I wanted thebook to be like.
It's a love letter to sport andwhen you get the book,
(40:58):
everything is referenced by adifferent game, by a different
experience the Olympic OlympicGames in Sydney, which I worked
at.
I finally made it to my OlympicGames in a different guise of
Central Operations and I got tosneak in to see Sonia O'Sullivan
(41:20):
win silver in the 5,000 metrefinal.
If she'd have won, I would havebeen arrested for wobbling
across the track to hug her.
It's a great experience, youknow.
So no, I'm delighted I've doneit.
I'm so.
I'm not even so last year now,I'm so two years ago.
But it's great to have done itand it's podcasts like these and
(41:47):
interviews in Trinity Collegethat keep me going.
So I still think that the WorldBook Tour is going to happen one
day, and I don't really want tosay too much, but I'm writing a
screenplay at the moment, sohopefully the movie gets taken
by spielberg or somebody soon.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Well, we, we would love to see that that's.
That's amazing.
I mean, what a, what a journeythat you've been on and here you
are, you know, full of hope,you know, trying to help, and
and and and and I noticed thatyou just you put it perfectly
when you said, you know youtalked about sports.
It was a love letter to sports.
None of us want to see sportsgo away.
(42:26):
None of us want, you know,anything other than to make
sports safer and they can bemade safer, learning from.
You know your tragedy.
You know my tragedy.
You know my son took his lifeafter playing contact sports and
was diagnosed up there.
(42:48):
He's with Nowinski's all thatwhole brain bank up there.
You know these are alltragedies that we have to turn
around and to to impact thefuture of our children and
there's plenty of adults outthere that are suffering, that
were footballers for a long,long time, who have no idea that
their psychological, cognitive,behavioral disorders could be
(43:10):
emanating from that trauma thatthey incurred from their teens
into their 20s and, if they're aprofessional baller, into their
30s.
So we have a lot to do, phil,and you're part of that journey
and you're part of our family.
So we have a conference everyyear.
This one's going to be inOrlando.
We'll make sure that you get aninvite.
Congratulations on the book andman prayers for your movie.
(43:35):
That would be absolutelyamazing if you pull that off.
And but as we close out theshow, any words for our parents.
If you have a website or wherethey can buy the book if it's on
Amazon or something like thatplease let them know.
But you know what's next forPhil.
What do you got planned rightnow You're obviously a happy man
(43:58):
.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
The book is available in Barnes and Noble, over with
you guys at the moment.
So if you just click onto theirwebsite and a bang on the ear,
what's next for me?
Well, I've been trialing anexo-pulse suit, an exo-skeleton
suit minimal improvements.
I just want to get the bodyback to some form of fitness
(44:19):
where I can walk a bit further.
My stamina is poor.
The winter doesn't do me toowell at all.
I love being in a sauna, thatsort of heat.
So Orlando would be kind ofcool.
I suppose my kids are what keepme going, and my wife these
(44:40):
days.
So if they're progressing intheir football, their soccer,
their Gaelic football, hurling,that's what really strikes me.
It'd be great to see themprogress to a level that I know
they're capable of.
So hopefully one day I'll bewatching down from a stand in
(45:02):
some big arena or a stadium andcheering them on from that
Beautiful Well, mr Phil, Icannot express our gratitude to
you coming on the show.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Take care of those kids' brains.
Nobody knows this better thanyou and you know.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show, sharing your
experience, sharing your wordsof wisdom and helping us push
for advocacy and bettereducation on the issue of
repetitive head trauma and TBIsand what we have to do to
successfully recuperate fromthem.
I cannot thank you enough forbeing on the show, sir.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Bruce, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
All.
Right, sir, go back to bed.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, thank you so much To all.
Sir, go back to go back to bed.
Oh, yeah, thank you so much.
So all our fans out there,viewers, thank you so much for
uh participating in a podcast,listening to the podcast today.
You can find us on Spotify,Apple, buzzsprout.
Uh, please don't forget, notonly when you go look at um Phil
Quinlan's book A Bang on theEar.
Download our free book on thewebsite so that you're up to
(46:02):
date on the latest research andscience.
We'll be coming out with anewsletter this year.
Please stay in touch.
We have a wonderful 2025 comingup in terms of brain health.
It will be better for ourchildren, for our athletes, for
our military.
Thank you all for listening toBroken Brains.
I'm Bruce Barkman signing off.
Take care.
Thanks again, phil, you, thankyou.
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