March 31, 2025 • 43 mins
In this eye-opening episode of Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman, host Bruce Parkman sits down with Siegfried "Sig" Settele, co-owner of Bridge the Gap and the innovator behind the cutting-edge X Sport Mouthguard—a revolutionary device designed to protect athletes from concussions and oral trauma.
From youth athletes to elite professionals, concussions continue to threaten long-term brain health in sports. Sig shares his powerful mission to change the game with smart safety technology that combines precision dental fitting with AI-powered sensors to track and report impact data in real-time. This forward-thinking approach allows coaches, trainers, and parents to take immediate, informed action—before it's too late.
This episode dives into:
- Why mouthguards are essential (and often overlooked) in concussion prevention
- How technology is reshaping athlete safety
- The future of injury monitoring with real-time data
- The importance of proactive protection for youth athletes and their growing brains
Whether you're a parent, coach, athlete, or medical professional, this conversation is packed with valuable insights into sports safety, traumatic brain injury prevention, and the next generation of protective gear.
👉 Don’t miss this important episode—follow, like, share, and subscribe to Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts to support the movement toward safer sports for all.
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is sponsored by The Mac Parkman Foundation
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma
02:06 The Journey to Creating Export Mouthguards
08:31 Innovative Design and Technology of Mouthguards
15:26 Importance of Mouthguards for Athletes
18:32 Mechanisms of Concussion Reduction
22:59 The Importance of Proper Mouth Guard Fit
23:40 Concerns About Children in Contact Sports
26:32 Athlete Endorsements and Real-World Applications
28:41 Innovations in AI Sensors for Safety
32:10 The Future of Impact Measurement Technology
37:01 The Mission to Protect Young Athletes
https://www.mpfact.com/headsmart-app/
Website: xsportguards.com
Produced by Security Halt Media
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hey folks, welcome to another edition of Broken
Brains with your host, bruceParkman, sponsored by the Matt
Parkman Foundation, where welook at the issue of repetitive
brain trauma and the two primarysources of that trauma, which
is repetitive head impacts fromcontact sports and repetitive
blast exposure for militaryveterans, and what are the
impacts of those exposures onthe brains of these people and
(00:34):
resulting in the largestpreventable cause of mental
illness in this countrytechnicians, scientists, doctors
, lawyers, parents around theworld to bring you the latest
and greatest information,because this issue of RHR and
RBE is one of the most poorlyunderstood issues in our medical
and psychiatric community todayand that's why you have to be
(00:56):
informed, because you are theadvocate for yourself that knows
that you love.
Today we have brought anotheramazing guest on the show.
It's Mr Siegfried Sattel.
He's the co-owner of Bridge, thegap parent company of Export
Mouthguards, one of the mostinnovative mouthguard products
on the market today, and is theco-creator.
(01:17):
He owns and operates SeattleSattel Dental Lab, a top dental
laboratory in Columbus Ohioserving over 180 dental offices,
and he has over 40 years ofexperience as a master dental
technician.
And it was him himself whocreated this amazing product
called the Export Mouthpiecewhich is, right now, the
(01:38):
state-of-the-art in athleteprotection.
It's designed to be more than aprotective device, and its
performance and safetyinnovation include advanced
shock absorption, custom fit,breathable design, durability
and longevity.
And for the first time ever,it's now being equipped with AI
sensors so that you, the team,the parent and the athlete can
(02:03):
track key factors of the impactof your sport on your brain to
include what we hope issubconcussive trauma.
Mr Sattel, welcome to our showand thank you so much for coming
on.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Bruce, how are you doing?
It's a pleasure to be here andyou can just call me Sig.
I welcome everybody and hello,and I'm very excited to be on
the program.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I welcome everybody and hello and I'm very excited
to be on the program Cool pitch.
So, sig, tell us about you know, before we get into export,
tell us what led you on thejourney to create a
state-of-the-art mouthpiece.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, you touched on it, I am a dental technician for
the last 500 years, owner andoperator, yeah.
So I'm pretty creative withmany things.
We'll get into that maybe lateron or another time.
But long story short, the storycomes from my son-in-law, who's
an amateur hockey player Comingout of COVID.
Things weren't as busy as theynormally would be right, and
(02:57):
many businesses were affected.
In that way we had a littleextra time on our hands and I
have quite a few inventions thatI wanted to roll out.
And everybody said, sig, justpick one.
And unfortunately my son-in-lawtook a puck to the mouth during
a game.
Now, we all know the, the, the,you know the percussions, what
(03:18):
could happen there.
And obviously he, he was prettymessed up.
You know facial trauma, oraltrauma, you name it, and that's
with that trauma, you name it,and that's with a mouth guard
and the long story short, he isvery lucky that he didn't lose
any teeth.
He had this maxillary fracture,the upper jaw, right you know
stitches inside and out.
And right then, and there Iknew I had to unveil something.
(03:41):
And let's face it, this is whatI do, this is what I live and
breed, right, you know makingdental appliances for so long
and I knew that something had tochange, and it had to change
immediately.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Well, good on you, sir.
Thank you, and I'm sorry tohear about your son-in-law, is
he okay?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, he's fine.
It took a long time to recover,obviously, but, you know,
breaking his upper jaw andhaving you know everything
stitched up and he couldn't eatfor a while.
I mean, we all know that, weall know what needs to be done
with that.
But long story short, herecovered.
But he was our Guinea pig.
We made we made so manydifferent, uh, mouth guards for
him, uh, to to get, to get youknow a human perspective, you
(04:19):
know, and we got it to the pointwhere I had to show it to
somebody.
And the next step, bruce, afterthat was I thought I had
something and we showed it to myright-hand man and that's Dr
Andy Gilbert.
He's a prosthodontist here inColumbus, ohio and he probably
has the biggest or the topresume that somebody could lay
(04:41):
down.
Not only is he a prosthodontist, he's also a by trade, a
mechanical engineer, and also heis the team dentist for the
Columbus Blue Jackets.
And so I welcome him on ourteam and also I welcome him as
an investor.
And that led to, you know,great, great team being
(05:02):
developed right after that andwe were very fortunate to bring
in a team that I call anall-star team, bruce, and I'm
very blessed with some of thetop oral surgeons Dr Rick Sheets
, 21 years with the ColumbusBlue Jackets as team oral
surgeon and also one of the bestoral surgeons that probably
walks the planet.
Also, we're very, very pleasedto have Dr Rasim Roy, one of the
(05:27):
top neurologists, on our teamhere in Columbus, ohio.
So, yes, I'm blessed to havethese individuals believing in
the product and having a vision.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I'll tell you what.
There's no doubt that a hockeyoral surgeon is a very busy man
because you know those thingsfly all over the place.
And you're right.
I mean I can't imagine taking apuck to the face.
I've been playing rugby for 40years, but you know those things
if anybody's ever held aprofessional hockey puck or any
(05:58):
hockey puck in your hand.
Those things, I mean, how fastdo those things go when they're
hit?
I mean they're slapped.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, you're probably pushing probably triple digits
for the most part, but I tellyou what that probably could
have killed them.
Let's be honest about it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
If you would have taken it in the head or
something I mean gosh, itprobably could have killed them,
probably could have killed them.
Yeah, so how did you start yourjourney?
Like were you in your garage orsomething you just started
melting wax.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, basically the whole concept was already there,
I just had to unroll it.
I had to make some changes.
We started off infusing themouth guards, the prototypes,
with stainless steel.
That was a major step.
And then, right away, I knew Ihad to make a quick change and
we quickly changed stainlesssteel into carbon fiber, bruce.
(06:49):
We are the world's only mouthguard that is infused with
carbon fiber.
And obviously the question comeswhen everybody is why carbon
fiber?
And what is the big deal ofcarbon fiber?
And I'm going to tell youreally quick, bruce.
The big deal of carbon fiber isit's light as a feather and is
five times stronger thanstainless steel when we're
(07:09):
talking about tensile strength.
And it is the framework of ourmouth guard.
And our mouth guard can prettymuch be comparable to a car.
As we know, all cars havebumpers and the impact, the
forcing energy transmits fromour triple layer mouth guard and
(07:29):
right there the force goesthrough the absorption layer,
bruce, that's our first layer ofdefense and that would be
equivalent to a bumper on a car.
So, as I mentioned, the force,the energy transmits through
that first layer of defense andleads us right into our second
layer of defense, that is, thecarbon fiber.
That would be equivalent tomaybe, a chassis on a car.
(07:50):
There the energy getstransmitted to our third layer.
Our third layer is a 3D printedortho resin.
That, basically, is a precisionfit.
So these mouth guards, bruce,when the day they fit is the
same, that'll fit in six months,eight months, 10 months.
(08:12):
We have some athletes wearingthese things over a year.
The precision fit.
There is no adjustment.
We are the world's firstthree-layer 3D-printed
mouthguard with carbon fibertechnology.
So, yes, it is a game changer.
I call it the X factor but it'smaking a difference, and that's
how it started, with me havingalready the blueprint in my head
(08:34):
, so when the accident happened,it was a short period of time
that we were able to unrollthese mouth guards.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Well, as a businessman, I'm always
interested.
I always love business models.
So you found how long did ittake to get from that prototype
to, say, your first customer thefirst time you started
delivering these out into thefield, and who's using these
things?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
now You've got an amazing website, so it looks
you're probably looking, pushingclose to three years from our
prototypes, and it's not justthat, we came up with just
anything.
And now how do we know that wereally have something right?
Look at all the mouthguardsthat are out there and we'll
elaborate about that here in aminute.
(09:18):
But the mouthguards that arecurrently out there, they say
they're the best ones because,you know, anybody can say we
make the best pizza, Bruce,because we say so.
And so as soon as we had ourfirst prototype, I had Dr Debbie
Mandel from Ohio State, who'sin charge of all athletic
dentistry, all sports dentistryat Ohio State University, Dr
(09:40):
Debbie Mandel, and she told meSig, you're on to something, but
I highly recommend you get ittested.
And so I scratched my head anddid some research and I said to
myself no one is doing anytesting per se.
Why do we need to do that?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
That's exactly why you get a bunch of guys to take
pucks in the face or something.
Nobody's going to want to testthese things.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
No, we Uber tested this thing, bruce.
We went to Ottawa Universityhad that tested.
We had it twice tested atAuburn University at Ohio State
a couple times.
And where we test these, bruce,is that we tested at the
mechanical engineeringdepartment.
We do what's called anabsorption testing, where we
(10:22):
have an apparatus that simulatesa human dentition right.
So, just like a mouth guardwould fit a human, so we take
our mouth guards and we fit iton this anatomical jig.
That's what we're going to callit an anatomical jig right that
simulates what a humandentition would do, and we would
fit these mouth guards overthis anatomical jig.
There.
This apparatus would actuallydrop weight, different weights
(10:45):
at different intervals, rightonto the mouth guards,
occlusally, frontally, buccally,left, right, on the sides, and
then we would see how muchimpact right it could withstand.
And we would test other mouthguards, the mouth guards.
And I'm going to tell yousomething, bruce anytime, if
(11:06):
you're talking tires, steakknives, it doesn't matter If you
wind up being five timesstronger than the next
competitor.
That's a huge, huge, hugechange.
And I'll tell you what we backour data, we back our science,
that's why we had these thingstested and so we're proud to say
, with carbon fiber.
Right, it reduces.
(11:27):
It reduces that impact andeverything is everything is
recorded in Newtons and that's,you know, physics.
And I give you an example ofpeople who don't really
understand some of this is thatif Mike Tyson would give anybody
a shot like Jake Paul, wouldgive anybody a shot like Jake
Paul, a real fight.
A Mike Tyson punch could beupwards to 5,000 newtons, and if
(11:52):
you're talking 6, 7, or 8,000newtons, we're talking about
pretty much almost decapitatinga human, and at that point we're
not worrying about protectingany teeth or brain if we're
going to decapitate a human.
So yeah, 5,000 newtons is prettymuch an average hit punch,
we'll say, from Mike Tyson.
So we're proud to say we'vedone a lot of testing, we've
(12:14):
stuck a lot of time andresources and capital in these
so that we can really back upwhat we're producing Bruce, Cool
.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And so when you say you're stronger than the next
near, so tell us how, like yousaid Newtons, Is Newtons
transferable to PSI or G-Forceor anything like that?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, and we have to remember that these other
mouthguards that are on themarket, they have no data or no
testing to back up any of theirclaims we talked about.
They make the best pizzabecause they say so.
And no mouth guard will say, nomouth guard company will say
well, you know, our mouth guardwill last three, four, five,
seven, eight, nine months.
No one will say that theyalready know.
After a period of, say, four orfive weeks, or even less, many
(13:00):
athletes can tell you.
The mouth guards will slowlybecome loose, automatically.
They lose their form.
Right, they'll fit like sockson a rooster.
We'll say that, right.
And that's why the problem isthe major.
The major, the major complaintsof, of of athletes at any level
, at any sport, is, let's faceit, I I understand why they
(13:22):
don't want to wear it.
We see athletes on TV all thetime not wearing mouthguards
right, whether it's hanging onfrom their helmets, right, or
they're just not wearing themright.
The problem is, is thatmouthguards actually the average
mouthguard restrict oxygenintake, right?
That's a major problem.
Our patented design allowsoxygen intake and what is the
(13:46):
big deal about that?
It increases one's performanceand endurance.
That is a major game changer InMMA, fighting and boxing or
what have you.
That is, when it comes down towho has more gas left in the
tank.
That becomes a factor.
That is a game changer and, asI mentioned, we call it the X
(14:07):
factor.
And also another negative ofmost mouthguards is they're too
bulky.
Right, they can't talk with it.
Right, let's face it, mostsports are team-oriented sports.
Communication is a huge key.
Right, with our mouthguard, youcan stick it in and still call
an audible at the line ofscrimmage.
(14:27):
No more taking it in and out,in and out, sticking it on the
helmet, forgetting to put it in,or or or or, finagling it
around at the line of scrimmage,taking up seconds, as we've
seen, some plays, somequarterbacks not putting it in
correctly at times.
The clock is still moving thatthose days are over.
You put it, bruce, and youforget about it.
(14:49):
You leave it in Able tocommunicate, able to breathe,
and also it gives the athlete apeace of mind that they don't
have to play with trying to keepit in, fighting it in place to
hold it right.
They put it in and concentrateon what is important right in
front of them.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And that's focusing on their game.
Well, I know my son was not abig fan of mouthguards in
wrestling and or football, so wehave a lot of parents listening
to this podcast.
So you know, besides theadvantages of your mouthguard,
what is it?
You know, and I know, some ofthe advantages of your
mouthguard we're going to talkabout in a second.
So why should your child wear amouth guard?
I mean, you know, and soparents can, you know, enforce
(15:32):
kind of like this Obviouslythere's benefits to wearing a
mouth guard, but to the athleteslike, nah, I'm not wearing that
right, but you know, sometimeswe should be a little bit, you
know, encouraging, or just, youknow, telling our child you're
wearing a goddamn mouth guard.
So what are the risks to thechild for not wearing the mouth
guard?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
so our parents can understand the importance of
having Well, I'm going to tellyou, first of all, it's in high
school and middle school and soon.
It's, you know, it's in therules they have to wear the
mouth guard.
Okay, they have to wear themouth guard.
A penalty will be called.
If they don't have it, theydon't bring it, they're not
getting on the field.
I like those.
(16:13):
I like that because you're,you're, you're, you know you're,
you're setting it up that look,you know, accidents happen to
anyone, regardless, regardless,pro college, high school
accidents will happen, right,and the best thing is to, you
know, put your armor on right.
Concussions, you know,concussions, they will not
(16:37):
sidestep any athlete.
Tbis, traumatic brain injuriesthese are all things that we're
trying to reduce.
Right, there is no mouth guardin the world that will eliminate
concussions, but if we can, ifwe can come up with a mouth
guard that we really, reallythink we've made, we've made a
precedence that this mouth guardcan reduce, based on data and
(17:01):
science, that is.
That is a huge statement tomake, and the whole concept is
we're trying to focus onreducing oral trauma.
Right, having one tooth chipped, losing one tooth, the trauma
that actually goes through Momand dad insurance, what have you
having to go through bonegraphing, getting an implant,
(17:21):
internal appliances, on and onand on.
It becomes a situation thatthey're going to have to deal
with that pretty much theirwhole life.
And we're talking thousands,thousands of dollars for that.
We're trying to reduce that.
And we talked about what areyour teeth worth?
What's somebody's brain worth?
When you get one concussion,you're more susceptible to
(17:43):
getting a second one, a thirdone, a third one, absolutely the
fourth one.
I mean some of us have seenthat movie that was out a few
years ago with Will Smith calledConcussions with some of the
major players, from Junior Seauright to many, many athletes,
mike Webster, right from theSteelers who played center I
(18:06):
mean we can mention a fewathletes.
What happened to them?
They took their lives.
It's a huge negative right.
We don't want to have moreathletes coming out like Brett
Favre did to Capitol Hilltalking about his Parkinson's
disease.
That could contribute to allthe hits that he took.
He took a beating on the field.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Let's talk about that .
So when you say, you know, withconcussions and TBIs you reduce
the force, now we know thatobviously we're talking about a
hit that takes place in the oralarea, because otherwise you're
not going to impact any hit tothe head.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, we're talking.
Yeah, bruce.
I do want to mention one thing.
A lot of people focus only fromhere up.
Okay, we're focusing from themandibular area.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So what is the mechanism by which your device
reduces that concussion?
Is it purely the compression ofthe force between the carbon
(19:14):
fiber and the outside material,or what is the mechanisms that
allow your device to reduce theconcussive blow, and by what
percentage does it reduce it?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Well, before we put a number on that, bruce, let's
talk about first how everythingis connected here, right?
And so let's talk aboutlacrosse, let's talk about field
hockey, let's talk about icehockey and so on.
High sticks very common, right,and so the manipular is the only
thing that actually moves inyour mouth right and everything
(19:48):
is connected right to thecondylus right.
A lot of people have TMJproblems right, they have pain
right here.
This is all connected.
It's a major hinge.
It's a major hinge thateverything is connected right.
Slapping, having the mandibleslam against your maxilla right,
have the upper hit against that, have the lower hit the upper
(20:08):
that hard, that sends that wave,that wave, that shock, up into
the brain.
And you know, as you sawperhaps in that movie, you know
Will Smith took a lunch bagright and filled it with fruit
and water and he shook that bag.
That, basically, was trying toshow you when you receive a TBI,
(20:31):
a concussion, your brain isgetting shocked and everything
is scrambled.
And the days, bruce, you knowthe days of getting hit on the
field and popping back up andthe coaches on the sideline how
many fingers do you see?
Right, right, okay, you're good, you're going back in a minute
later or the second half.
Those days are over.
(20:51):
Look what happened to tua asjust one example, to a shoot up
from the miami dolphinsquarterback to a should have
never been able to play so manygames that quickly.
He wasn't ready.
This is where we come in havingthe sensors that we're dropping
in in real time showing.
Not only is Tua not coming backa week later, tua is not coming
(21:16):
back for the next 11 games.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
All right, so let's talk about that.
So we discussed that.
The mechanism, how you protectthe athlete, is that you know if
the force is in the mandibulararea, you can reduce the amount
of force that is reaching thebrain, because you could press
in the oral area.
You could press the amount ofshock.
You absorb a lot of it, so lessreaches.
(21:40):
Now we all know that the realchallenge in this, in all sports
, is subconcussive trauma, theway the brain shakes, and we
know that there's not anythingin the world that can prevent
the brain from shaking in thehead.
So, when we're talking, blowsupon blows upon blows, which is
why we are advocating forcefullyfor the elimination of
(22:05):
concussive contact in children,because of the developing brains
and the issues that happen to adeveloping brain as they're
exposed to concussive, uh,concussive trauma.
And so your device, which itsounds, it sounds amazing from
the area, from the area.
Um, you know, you said you havethe data and science, uh, that
(22:26):
support that I there was nostudies on your website, but I
was.
You know, I'm very interestedin the amount of reduction in
that device, is it?
It was you?
It was compared to other mouthguards or those studies with
your device well, we could, wecould send that to you.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
We have it in our in uh investment deck.
We have, we have it in severalplaces.
I'm not quite sure what you saw, but nevertheless it does show.
You know, not only do we testour product, we test it against
other major manufacturers andthey failed miserably.
They failed miserably.
Most of these mouthguards haveone layer, maybe two, right,
(23:06):
that's not even a mouth guard.
Yeah, I mean in a short period.
The most important thing isthat these mouth guards are
ill-fitting in a short period oftime.
And when a mouth guard isill-fitting that right, there is
already a problem, because if amouth guard does not fit right,
(23:26):
it can't protect right.
And with our 3D printing ourmouth guards are a precision fit
.
They snap into place right andit's going to be a very tight
fit.
It gives the athletesconfidence to wear it as they
perform, knowing they can dishout a hit and take a hit without
(23:48):
this mouth guard beingdislodged.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So let's talk about the hits.
What's your position onchildren playing contact sports?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Well, I think there should be an age.
I know they're changing rulesall the time in sports.
You've seen that.
I know that parents areconcerned about contact sports
and I wouldn't be surprisedbecause of all the problems.
I mean you see some young kidsalready getting concussions
(24:18):
already.
You know, under 12 years oldthat's a major problem.
I mean that opens a door.
Then you know what happens at15, 16, 17, um.
But we have to, we have to putour best foot forward.
We have to put our best footforward.
I know, I know they're makingsome strides on changing helmets
and the silliest thing I sawthe other day I think I saw some
(24:39):
of these new helmets being wornin the nfl right, you've seen
them as well and the athletesnot wearing a mouth guard.
I mean yeah, get the yeah yeah,and there's actually a lot of
talk.
Yeah, and actually I wasthinking to myself one hit yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
So there's actually a lot of talk that the current
helmet design is actually theworst at all because of the
transmission of force from themandibular area because it's all
locked in.
It's all locked in and thatreally causes it like, and so
they're looking at helmets nowthat are full, they come around
and if you, you know thatprotection takes the, you know,
because the compression of thejaw to your point, right, if
(25:18):
that compression is notcontrolled it's also a
significant cost of concussionson hits because the way that
that jaw force is transmitted tothe brain, so you know.
So for your device to reducesome of that concussive blow,
there is a point saying that,and I mean there's actually a
good point for wearing anythingthat can help reduce any point
(25:39):
of concussion, especially whenthe child is playing concussive
sports or at the proper level.
But to your point, it doesn'tmatter what you're doing,
cheerleading these girls take,you know, hits, you know
lacrosse, soccer, everybody'sout there and you can't stop the
accident from happening, butyou know it would be.
(26:00):
Do you sell, you know,obviously, with you know
children playing sports andneeding this protection because
you get a concussion in anysport, do you sell children,
these devices as well?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Well, right now we're working on that, bruce Right
now, the different versions thatwe have, that we can, we can
say for basically 12 years andup, for the reason being a lot
of these young children havedeciduous teeth, in other words,
baby teeth right, and they'relosing them, and so on.
Yeah, so basically from 12 andup, we could see these athletes
(26:35):
wearing them.
And also, I'd like to go backto what you were asking a minute
ago who's wearing these mouthguards?
We have many MMA fighterswearing these coast to coast.
We have a lot of major goldmedal winners from the US ski
(26:56):
team, darren Routes.
Oh, they need these.
Darren Routes is the mostprestigious male racer from the
United States, most prestigiousmale racer from the United
States.
He's won so many gold medalsall around the world skiing and
he's wearing our mouth guard.
He also has segued his careerin making movies Warren Miller
(27:19):
movies.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I love my Warren Miller movies.
Used to catch them every yearin Colorado, man.
Yeah, love them, darren.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Rouse is a major athlete.
He's one of these guys you seein these movies where you know
they're up about 17,000 feetsomewhere in Alaska and he's
jumping out of a helicopter, youknow, going off a cliff.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
So Darren Rouse is wearing it.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, we just finished a mouth guard with
Johnny Mosley.
Johnny Mosley is another goldmedal US skier that is wearing
it.
Both these athletes, they comeout of Squaw Valley or Palisades
as they call it now.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yes, sir, that's where they practice.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
In Lake Tahoe.
They're both ambassadors to theresort at Squaw Valley and
Palisades.
So we have many footballplayers, a few Buckeyes, wearing
it right now and our push isfor the entire team to wear it
because we want to make a forcenot just in our backyard but
coast to coast in many highschools and college level
(28:20):
players.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So let's talk about these AI sensors, because I
think right now, this could bethe greatest innovation right
now in America for parents.
Right now, you cannot buy adevice that can tell a parent
that their child incurred asubconcussive hit and to what
magnitude or concussive blow.
Doesn't matter that their headhas taken trauma.
(28:43):
And parents want to know, andthey deserve to know.
If my child is playing sportsand they get harmed, it's not
about liability or anything.
They just want to know if theycan make a decision to take care
of their child.
Have they suffered a concussivehit or how many sub-concussive
hits have they had?
You know, do we need to go seea concussive specialist?
Yada, yada, your device rightnow.
(29:05):
If need to go see a concussivespecialist, yada, yada, your
device right now if I read itright, is getting ready to is
going to allow parents insightinto that type of, those types
of metrics and that type ofinformation, which is astounding
.
So where are you at with thisproduct and when do you think
that you are going to release itand tell us all about it?
(29:25):
This is exactly we've heard ofsensors in rugby, in world rugby
right now.
I think they're wearing it, butonly the team gets the data,
not the athletes.
And I'm a rugby player, Icouldn't even know.
I wouldn't even know whatsubcustum trauma is right.
So for you, you are educatingthe populace with this device.
So what's the plans?
Tell us all about this.
(29:52):
Is this exciting?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
This is where technology can really impact the
issue of repetitive ed impactsfor all of us.
You're absolutely right.
This is a game changer.
We're very fortunate for theteam that we have and, thanks to
Dr Haseem Roy and his team,they're coming up.
They have the sensor for themouth guard.
Sensors have been around for abit now.
(30:13):
The NFL has been toying withthat.
The problem is they havenothing compared to what we're
going to be doing and hopefullywe're going to have that coming
out this year.
We're going to have severaldifferent types, different
versions, and I'll touch base onthat right now.
Bruce, in real time.
In real time, parents, coaches,trainers will have the ability.
(30:36):
If somebody takes a major hiton the ice on the football field
, the parents and all of us willknow where we stand with that,
what kind of hit that was.
Is that a hit that's going totake Johnny or Susie out for the
next six months, or?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
should it take them out?
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
We'll be able to tell no more.
How many fingers do we see?
How many fingers do you see,right, yeah, those days are over
.
We'll be able to see, rightthen and there, what that looks
like.
We'll also be able to see, whenMike Tyson hits his next
opponent, as an example, whatthat looks like.
So imagine this Bruce you'rewatching a big time fight,
(31:19):
you're watching some MMA fight,ufc fight, right From Las Vegas
or Dubai, and you'll see afighter take a hit right there.
The audience, the pay-per-viewcrowd, will actually be able to
see.
You'll have a meter.
We'll be able to see what thatlooks like and what just
(31:42):
happened, what transpired fromthat hit, whether it's an elbow,
a fist, a knee, what have youright We'll be able to dive
right in and see that, and sothat is amazing.
That is something we're veryexcited about.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
It is amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
We're working with that right now and we're eager
to come out and have that foreverybody, parents included.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
How are you going to so?
And that is important, sir youcould change the game with this.
So do you know what kind ofthreshold you're going to be
using for the for you know, forthe for the sensor to go off,
how are you going to displaythis?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, let's talk about the sensors in general.
So obviously we're talkingabout sensors, you know, for for
, for combat sports, right,football, basketball, you know
any of the sports like that.
We'll be able to put thosemouth guards in place and in
real time see that.
But some of these sensors rightNow you talk about some of the
(32:44):
trainers at colleges andfootball.
They'll say, well, we alreadyhave something right.
They have this device, a vest,that that some of these athletes
are wearing.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, Riddell has the helmet, the lining jacket.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, they measure the temperature, the oxygen
intake and so on.
They're able to measure all ofthat.
Or some people have these fancysmartwatches, right, when
they're jogging, it shows themThey've got a smart ring.
Now, yeah, I was going tomention that.
And the unfortunate part, bruce, all these items are mentioning
are completely unreliable, andI'm going to tell you why, bruce
(33:21):
and it's not me saying thatthis comes from a major you know
, uh, neurologist, it's theproblem with those devices that
people are buying.
Neurologist, it's the problemwith those devices that people
are buying.
They have the information, thedata has to go through the human
skin, the epidermis, right?
(33:42):
And the problem is that iswhere the data gets skewed,
right, because it has to gothrough the skin.
The most accurate way toretrieve that data, bruce, is
through the oral cavity, righthere in your mouth, and so
that's where the sensors aregoing to be in.
Each sensor has a differentapplication.
We're talking only about one,one sensor right now.
Other sensors that we'll beworking on, well, we'll
(34:05):
basically measure the pH levelof a human.
We'll also be able to monitor,you know, the cholesterol, right
?
We talk about high bloodpressure, all these things, you
know.
We're talking about wellness.
Now right, All these thingswill have a different
application, and all these otherones we talked about are giving
(34:26):
false data false data.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Let's get back to the subconcussive trauma here,
because this is key.
So will you tell parents, likeon your screen?
So a lot of these sensors areout there, like the helmet
sensors for Riddell.
Well, when the hit goes off,the coach gets it on the
sideline right.
Number one that data is notallowed to be shared with the
parent.
(34:49):
Number two there is noexplanation of the magnitude of
that hit.
So Riddell says we set this atan industry accepted level, but
they won't tell you how many Gsit is.
Is it 25 Gs?
The NFL says 95 Gs is aconcussive hit.
Most doctors say it's around 30to 25.
(35:10):
So big disparity there.
But will you?
There's your sensor right now,as you plan it, how will it
display the gravity of the hit?
What is the measurements thatare going to be used right now?
Or what do?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
you plan on.
Right now we're working on thatand I can't speak directly of
that.
Okay, but we're going to beusing color codes for that,
whether it be red, and all theparents, trainers and coaches
and players they'll be able tolook at the color.
What that then would transpire.
(35:45):
Okay, all right, and so rightnow we're working on that and we
will definitely get back withyou on that information as it
comes out Would love to, and sowhen do you think you're going
to have this device on themarket, sir?
We're looking at 24.
I'm sorry 25 to be the year ofthat happening at this
(36:08):
particular point.
Prototypes we're working on aswe speak, and so we're looking
and working on that, you knowpretty hard right now.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
I'll be one of your testers.
You give me one of those.
I'll have Mike Tyson punch me inthe head and I want to see
where that thing goes, becausethis I'll tell you what, doc, I
mean you're going to be in for alittle bit of pushback that the
parents have this access to theinformation.
Expect that, Okay, but do notgive up on that.
These parents right now have noway to measure what's happening
(36:35):
to their child and if you staytrue to the intent of this
device, you will be the firstapplication that a parent can
monitor a child when they'replaying soccer tiddlywinks, you
know, basketball tag jumping outof trees, it doesn't matter.
We now know right now, rhi isthe largest preventable cause of
(37:00):
mental illness in this countryand we have to track this.
We need to know when Johnny orSusie has been harmed, when they
hit that red, even when theyhit that yellow.
So I think you are on amagnificent mission right now to
shine a light on the issue ofsubcustive trauma with your
devices, and I would back you100% with your mission to take
(37:22):
to be able to at least allow theparents to understand what's
going on with their children,because nobody else is doing
that right now.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I'm going to tell you something, bruce.
Our mission, our missionstatement is very clear.
Our number one priority is, isthe athlete.
And if we can, if we can havethese athletes, you know, go out
there, have the parents, knowthat their, that their, their,
their young athletes are saferwearing an appliance that only
can protect their dentitionright, their teeth Right and you
(37:51):
know, and at the same timereduce the chances of TBIs,
traumatic brain injuries.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
I mean that's, I would say, reduce the amount of
pressure that causes a TBI.
But you know it's.
Yeah, I think that would be afair statement and then also
transmit this critical data tothe parent or the sideline,
right?
I mean the coaches need to knowtoo.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean we don't, what a mission.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
We don't want.
We don't want too many to uswalking around, that we don't
want any to us.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Right, and you're to your point and a lot of even I.
All right, so let me ask you aquestion.
When two of God hit I think itwas, you know he hit his head on
the back Okay, that your devicewould still be able to, you
know, measure the impact?
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
That could mitigate that, that impact, that, that
that he unfortunately had.
But you know we're talkingabout one particular person too.
I mean, what about all?
What about all the?
What about all the athletesthat we don't that took a hit,
we're not even talking about?
They got a major headache.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
It happens to every.
I mean, and that's what we haveparents understand that as soon
as your kid enters contactsports, they are going to have
subcursive trauma.
That's it.
You cannot get away with it.
If the head moves, the brainmoves, and if you allow it to
move too much, you're going tochange the brain in ways that
(39:17):
are not positive for the mentalhealth and brain health of that
child.
That is why preventive ordiagnostic technologies like
yours, right, that can alert aparent to these issues, are
going to be so.
You are the future, doc.
You are the future.
I mean.
This is where we need toleverage technology to protect
our kids and to make sportssafer, not to ban the sports,
not to, you know, piss thecoaches off because the parents
on the sideline go hey, man, mykid needs to come out.
(39:37):
That's what should be ourpriority anyways.
Is that athlete you just saidit that child, their brain, is
the priority, not winning thesegames.
All right, I mean, it's just.
You know we can no longer godown this path of allowing
children to play sports.
Oh, in the name of winning,we're going to keep Tommy out
there, and I know from this appthat I got from my helmet
manufacturer.
He's already taken a bunch ofhits, but you know he's still
(39:59):
functional, right?
He's still not, you know,stumbling around or falling down
.
We've got to win this game.
That is the most crappyapproach to coaching in this
world right now when it comes toour children, and we have to
change that, and your technologycan do it.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
So yeah, go ahead.
We have to protect the athlete.
You know whether it's the Tuas,you know the Mike Websters out
there that had situations, if wewould reach them at an earlier
state.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Right, and we're the guys that's going to stop them
from having so much exposure.
And then, when they are playingthose contact sports preferably
18, but maybe in high schoolthat's the compromise and
there's no contact practicesduring the week they're going to
be wearing your device becausethat coach is going to know and
we're behind you 100% on thisone, doc.
(40:52):
I mean this is great.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I appreciate that, Bruce.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
It's going to be amazing.
So tell our audience how tofind you.
Where do they go to the website?
I would definitely post yourresearch papers on there.
If you're going to claimresearch, they should be able to
see it, but I think yourinvestor deck's on there too.
Yeah, but tell our audiencewhere to go.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Doc.
It's real simple, bruce.
They can go to exportguardscomto check us out the website.
You'll see athletes, you'll seetestimonials, you'll see all
that on there.
It talks about our missionstatement, it talks about our
involvement with community andI'd like to touch base on this
real quick that exportmouthguards.
(41:35):
You know we would like to workwith donors and nonprofit
organizations to create awinning strategy, because we
believe all athletes, bruce,need protection, regardless of
their demographics, and we canmake that difference today and
for tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
All about it, sir, and that's a great closing point
.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
Cannot thank you.
Great mission, doc.
I'm on that AI technology.
I'm going to follow you everyweek.
Folks.
Another great edition of ourpodcast, broken Brains.
Cannot thank you enough forcoming on.
Remember, go to thewebsitempfactcom.
Get our free copy of this bookso that you can be informed the
(42:16):
only copy, the only book outthere endorsed by all the senior
ct neurologists in this countryfor you to read, get informed.
Get our app on google smart uh,head smart at the head smart
app on google.
We've got the town hall inMarch for veterans and RBE.
We're going to be doingseminars for NFL players and
we've got our conference comingup on repetitive brain trauma in
(42:40):
September here in Tampa andhopefully we'll have Mr Sattel
Sig on there talking about thisnew dynamic innovation where
parents can actually measurewhat's going on with their kids
for the first time in history ofsports.
Thank you so much for listening.
God bless you, sig.
Thank you so much for coming onboard and God bless you and
(43:02):
your mission.
And thank you folks, take careyou.
Hey folks, welcome to another edition of Broken
Brains with your host, bruceParkman, sponsored by the Matt
Parkman Foundation, where welook at the issue of repetitive
brain trauma and the two primarysources of that trauma, which
is repetitive head impacts fromcontact sports and repetitive
blast exposure for militaryveterans, and what are the
impacts of those exposures onthe brains of these people and
(00:34):
resulting in the largestpreventable cause of mental
illness in this countrytechnicians, scientists, doctors
, lawyers, parents around theworld to bring you the latest
and greatest information,because this issue of RHR and
RBE is one of the most poorlyunderstood issues in our medical
and psychiatric community todayand that's why you have to be
(00:56):
informed, because you are theadvocate for yourself that knows
that you love.
Today we have brought anotheramazing guest on the show.
It's Mr Siegfried Sattel.
He's the co-owner of Bridge, thegap parent company of Export
Mouthguards, one of the mostinnovative mouthguard products
on the market today, and is theco-creator.
(01:17):
He owns and operates SeattleSattel Dental Lab, a top dental
laboratory in Columbus Ohioserving over 180 dental offices,
and he has over 40 years ofexperience as a master dental
technician.
And it was him himself whocreated this amazing product
called the Export Mouthpiecewhich is, right now, the
(01:38):
state-of-the-art in athleteprotection.
It's designed to be more than aprotective device, and its
performance and safetyinnovation include advanced
shock absorption, custom fit,breathable design, durability
and longevity.
And for the first time ever,it's now being equipped with AI
sensors so that you, the team,the parent and the athlete can
(02:03):
track key factors of the impactof your sport on your brain to
include what we hope issubconcussive trauma.
Mr Sattel, welcome to our showand thank you so much for coming
on.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Bruce, how are you doing?
It's a pleasure to be here andyou can just call me Sig.
I welcome everybody and hello,and I'm very excited to be on
the program.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I welcome everybody and hello and I'm very excited
to be on the program Cool pitch.
So, sig, tell us about you know, before we get into export,
tell us what led you on thejourney to create a
state-of-the-art mouthpiece.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, you touched on it, I am a dental technician for
the last 500 years, owner andoperator, yeah.
So I'm pretty creative withmany things.
We'll get into that maybe lateron or another time.
But long story short, the storycomes from my son-in-law, who's
an amateur hockey player Comingout of COVID.
Things weren't as busy as theynormally would be right, and
(02:57):
many businesses were affected.
In that way we had a littleextra time on our hands and I
have quite a few inventions thatI wanted to roll out.
And everybody said, sig, justpick one.
And unfortunately my son-in-lawtook a puck to the mouth during
a game.
Now, we all know the, the, the,you know the percussions, what
(03:18):
could happen there.
And obviously he, he was prettymessed up.
You know facial trauma, oraltrauma, you name it, and that's
with that trauma, you name it,and that's with a mouth guard
and the long story short, he isvery lucky that he didn't lose
any teeth.
He had this maxillary fracture,the upper jaw, right you know
stitches inside and out.
And right then, and there Iknew I had to unveil something.
(03:41):
And let's face it, this is whatI do, this is what I live and
breed, right, you know makingdental appliances for so long
and I knew that something had tochange, and it had to change
immediately.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Well, good on you, sir.
Thank you, and I'm sorry tohear about your son-in-law, is
he okay?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, he's fine.
It took a long time to recover,obviously, but, you know,
breaking his upper jaw andhaving you know everything
stitched up and he couldn't eatfor a while.
I mean, we all know that, weall know what needs to be done
with that.
But long story short, herecovered.
But he was our Guinea pig.
We made we made so manydifferent, uh, mouth guards for
him, uh, to to get, to get youknow a human perspective, you
(04:19):
know, and we got it to the pointwhere I had to show it to
somebody.
And the next step, bruce, afterthat was I thought I had
something and we showed it to myright-hand man and that's Dr
Andy Gilbert.
He's a prosthodontist here inColumbus, ohio and he probably
has the biggest or the topresume that somebody could lay
(04:41):
down.
Not only is he a prosthodontist, he's also a by trade, a
mechanical engineer, and also heis the team dentist for the
Columbus Blue Jackets.
And so I welcome him on ourteam and also I welcome him as
an investor.
And that led to, you know,great, great team being
(05:02):
developed right after that andwe were very fortunate to bring
in a team that I call anall-star team, bruce, and I'm
very blessed with some of thetop oral surgeons Dr Rick Sheets
, 21 years with the ColumbusBlue Jackets as team oral
surgeon and also one of the bestoral surgeons that probably
walks the planet.
Also, we're very, very pleasedto have Dr Rasim Roy, one of the
(05:27):
top neurologists, on our teamhere in Columbus, ohio.
So, yes, I'm blessed to havethese individuals believing in
the product and having a vision.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I'll tell you what.
There's no doubt that a hockeyoral surgeon is a very busy man
because you know those thingsfly all over the place.
And you're right.
I mean I can't imagine taking apuck to the face.
I've been playing rugby for 40years, but you know those things
if anybody's ever held aprofessional hockey puck or any
(05:58):
hockey puck in your hand.
Those things, I mean, how fastdo those things go when they're
hit?
I mean they're slapped.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, you're probably pushing probably triple digits
for the most part, but I tellyou what that probably could
have killed them.
Let's be honest about it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
If you would have taken it in the head or
something I mean gosh, itprobably could have killed them,
probably could have killed them.
Yeah, so how did you start yourjourney?
Like were you in your garage orsomething you just started
melting wax.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, basically the whole concept was already there,
I just had to unroll it.
I had to make some changes.
We started off infusing themouth guards, the prototypes,
with stainless steel.
That was a major step.
And then, right away, I knew Ihad to make a quick change and
we quickly changed stainlesssteel into carbon fiber, bruce.
(06:49):
We are the world's only mouthguard that is infused with
carbon fiber.
And obviously the question comeswhen everybody is why carbon
fiber?
And what is the big deal ofcarbon fiber?
And I'm going to tell youreally quick, bruce.
The big deal of carbon fiber isit's light as a feather and is
five times stronger thanstainless steel when we're
(07:09):
talking about tensile strength.
And it is the framework of ourmouth guard.
And our mouth guard can prettymuch be comparable to a car.
As we know, all cars havebumpers and the impact, the
forcing energy transmits fromour triple layer mouth guard and
(07:29):
right there the force goesthrough the absorption layer,
bruce, that's our first layer ofdefense and that would be
equivalent to a bumper on a car.
So, as I mentioned, the force,the energy transmits through
that first layer of defense andleads us right into our second
layer of defense, that is, thecarbon fiber.
That would be equivalent tomaybe, a chassis on a car.
(07:50):
There the energy getstransmitted to our third layer.
Our third layer is a 3D printedortho resin.
That, basically, is a precisionfit.
So these mouth guards, bruce,when the day they fit is the
same, that'll fit in six months,eight months, 10 months.
(08:12):
We have some athletes wearingthese things over a year.
The precision fit.
There is no adjustment.
We are the world's firstthree-layer 3D-printed
mouthguard with carbon fibertechnology.
So, yes, it is a game changer.
I call it the X factor but it'smaking a difference, and that's
how it started, with me havingalready the blueprint in my head
(08:34):
, so when the accident happened,it was a short period of time
that we were able to unrollthese mouth guards.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Well, as a businessman, I'm always
interested.
I always love business models.
So you found how long did ittake to get from that prototype
to, say, your first customer thefirst time you started
delivering these out into thefield, and who's using these
things?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
now You've got an amazing website, so it looks
you're probably looking, pushingclose to three years from our
prototypes, and it's not justthat, we came up with just
anything.
And now how do we know that wereally have something right?
Look at all the mouthguardsthat are out there and we'll
elaborate about that here in aminute.
(09:18):
But the mouthguards that arecurrently out there, they say
they're the best ones because,you know, anybody can say we
make the best pizza, Bruce,because we say so.
And so as soon as we had ourfirst prototype, I had Dr Debbie
Mandel from Ohio State, who'sin charge of all athletic
dentistry, all sports dentistryat Ohio State University, Dr
(09:40):
Debbie Mandel, and she told meSig, you're on to something, but
I highly recommend you get ittested.
And so I scratched my head anddid some research and I said to
myself no one is doing anytesting per se.
Why do we need to do that?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
That's exactly why you get a bunch of guys to take
pucks in the face or something.
Nobody's going to want to testthese things.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
No, we Uber tested this thing, bruce.
We went to Ottawa Universityhad that tested.
We had it twice tested atAuburn University at Ohio State
a couple times.
And where we test these, bruce,is that we tested at the
mechanical engineeringdepartment.
We do what's called anabsorption testing, where we
(10:22):
have an apparatus that simulatesa human dentition right.
So, just like a mouth guardwould fit a human, so we take
our mouth guards and we fit iton this anatomical jig.
That's what we're going to callit an anatomical jig right that
simulates what a humandentition would do, and we would
fit these mouth guards overthis anatomical jig.
There.
This apparatus would actuallydrop weight, different weights
(10:45):
at different intervals, rightonto the mouth guards,
occlusally, frontally, buccally,left, right, on the sides, and
then we would see how muchimpact right it could withstand.
And we would test other mouthguards, the mouth guards.
And I'm going to tell yousomething, bruce anytime, if
(11:06):
you're talking tires, steakknives, it doesn't matter If you
wind up being five timesstronger than the next
competitor.
That's a huge, huge, hugechange.
And I'll tell you what we backour data, we back our science,
that's why we had these thingstested and so we're proud to say
, with carbon fiber.
Right, it reduces.
(11:27):
It reduces that impact andeverything is everything is
recorded in Newtons and that's,you know, physics.
And I give you an example ofpeople who don't really
understand some of this is thatif Mike Tyson would give anybody
a shot like Jake Paul, wouldgive anybody a shot like Jake
Paul, a real fight.
A Mike Tyson punch could beupwards to 5,000 newtons, and if
(11:52):
you're talking 6, 7, or 8,000newtons, we're talking about
pretty much almost decapitatinga human, and at that point we're
not worrying about protectingany teeth or brain if we're
going to decapitate a human.
So yeah, 5,000 newtons is prettymuch an average hit punch,
we'll say, from Mike Tyson.
So we're proud to say we'vedone a lot of testing, we've
(12:14):
stuck a lot of time andresources and capital in these
so that we can really back upwhat we're producing Bruce, Cool
.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And so when you say you're stronger than the next
near, so tell us how, like yousaid Newtons, Is Newtons
transferable to PSI or G-Forceor anything like that?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, and we have to remember that these other
mouthguards that are on themarket, they have no data or no
testing to back up any of theirclaims we talked about.
They make the best pizzabecause they say so.
And no mouth guard will say, nomouth guard company will say
well, you know, our mouth guardwill last three, four, five,
seven, eight, nine months.
No one will say that theyalready know.
After a period of, say, four orfive weeks, or even less, many
(13:00):
athletes can tell you.
The mouth guards will slowlybecome loose, automatically.
They lose their form.
Right, they'll fit like sockson a rooster.
We'll say that, right.
And that's why the problem isthe major.
The major, the major complaintsof, of of athletes at any level
, at any sport, is, let's faceit, I I understand why they
(13:22):
don't want to wear it.
We see athletes on TV all thetime not wearing mouthguards
right, whether it's hanging onfrom their helmets, right, or
they're just not wearing themright.
The problem is, is thatmouthguards actually the average
mouthguard restrict oxygenintake, right?
That's a major problem.
Our patented design allowsoxygen intake and what is the
(13:46):
big deal about that?
It increases one's performanceand endurance.
That is a major game changer InMMA, fighting and boxing or
what have you.
That is, when it comes down towho has more gas left in the
tank.
That becomes a factor.
That is a game changer and, asI mentioned, we call it the X
(14:07):
factor.
And also another negative ofmost mouthguards is they're too
bulky.
Right, they can't talk with it.
Right, let's face it, mostsports are team-oriented sports.
Communication is a huge key.
Right, with our mouthguard, youcan stick it in and still call
an audible at the line ofscrimmage.
(14:27):
No more taking it in and out,in and out, sticking it on the
helmet, forgetting to put it in,or or or or, finagling it
around at the line of scrimmage,taking up seconds, as we've
seen, some plays, somequarterbacks not putting it in
correctly at times.
The clock is still moving thatthose days are over.
You put it, bruce, and youforget about it.
(14:49):
You leave it in Able tocommunicate, able to breathe,
and also it gives the athlete apeace of mind that they don't
have to play with trying to keepit in, fighting it in place to
hold it right.
They put it in and concentrateon what is important right in
front of them.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And that's focusing on their game.
Well, I know my son was not abig fan of mouthguards in
wrestling and or football, so wehave a lot of parents listening
to this podcast.
So you know, besides theadvantages of your mouthguard,
what is it?
You know, and I know, some ofthe advantages of your
mouthguard we're going to talkabout in a second.
So why should your child wear amouth guard?
I mean, you know, and soparents can, you know, enforce
(15:32):
kind of like this Obviouslythere's benefits to wearing a
mouth guard, but to the athleteslike, nah, I'm not wearing that
right, but you know, sometimeswe should be a little bit, you
know, encouraging, or just, youknow, telling our child you're
wearing a goddamn mouth guard.
So what are the risks to thechild for not wearing the mouth
guard?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
so our parents can understand the importance of
having Well, I'm going to tellyou, first of all, it's in high
school and middle school and soon.
It's, you know, it's in therules they have to wear the
mouth guard.
Okay, they have to wear themouth guard.
A penalty will be called.
If they don't have it, theydon't bring it, they're not
getting on the field.
I like those.
(16:13):
I like that because you're,you're, you're, you know you're,
you're setting it up that look,you know, accidents happen to
anyone, regardless, regardless,pro college, high school
accidents will happen, right,and the best thing is to, you
know, put your armor on right.
Concussions, you know,concussions, they will not
(16:37):
sidestep any athlete.
Tbis, traumatic brain injuriesthese are all things that we're
trying to reduce.
Right, there is no mouth guardin the world that will eliminate
concussions, but if we can, ifwe can come up with a mouth
guard that we really, reallythink we've made, we've made a
precedence that this mouth guardcan reduce, based on data and
(17:01):
science, that is.
That is a huge statement tomake, and the whole concept is
we're trying to focus onreducing oral trauma.
Right, having one tooth chipped, losing one tooth, the trauma
that actually goes through Momand dad insurance, what have you
having to go through bonegraphing, getting an implant,
(17:21):
internal appliances, on and onand on.
It becomes a situation thatthey're going to have to deal
with that pretty much theirwhole life.
And we're talking thousands,thousands of dollars for that.
We're trying to reduce that.
And we talked about what areyour teeth worth?
What's somebody's brain worth?
When you get one concussion,you're more susceptible to
(17:43):
getting a second one, a thirdone, a third one, absolutely the
fourth one.
I mean some of us have seenthat movie that was out a few
years ago with Will Smith calledConcussions with some of the
major players, from Junior Seauright to many, many athletes,
mike Webster, right from theSteelers who played center I
(18:06):
mean we can mention a fewathletes.
What happened to them?
They took their lives.
It's a huge negative right.
We don't want to have moreathletes coming out like Brett
Favre did to Capitol Hilltalking about his Parkinson's
disease.
That could contribute to allthe hits that he took.
He took a beating on the field.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Let's talk about that .
So when you say, you know, withconcussions and TBIs you reduce
the force, now we know thatobviously we're talking about a
hit that takes place in the oralarea, because otherwise you're
not going to impact any hit tothe head.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, we're talking.
Yeah, bruce.
I do want to mention one thing.
A lot of people focus only fromhere up.
Okay, we're focusing from themandibular area.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So what is the mechanism by which your device
reduces that concussion?
Is it purely the compression ofthe force between the carbon
(19:14):
fiber and the outside material,or what is the mechanisms that
allow your device to reduce theconcussive blow, and by what
percentage does it reduce it?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Well, before we put a number on that, bruce, let's
talk about first how everythingis connected here, right?
And so let's talk aboutlacrosse, let's talk about field
hockey, let's talk about icehockey and so on.
High sticks very common, right,and so the manipular is the only
thing that actually moves inyour mouth right and everything
(19:48):
is connected right to thecondylus right.
A lot of people have TMJproblems right, they have pain
right here.
This is all connected.
It's a major hinge.
It's a major hinge thateverything is connected right.
Slapping, having the mandibleslam against your maxilla right,
have the upper hit against that, have the lower hit the upper
(20:08):
that hard, that sends that wave,that wave, that shock, up into
the brain.
And you know, as you sawperhaps in that movie, you know
Will Smith took a lunch bagright and filled it with fruit
and water and he shook that bag.
That, basically, was trying toshow you when you receive a TBI,
(20:31):
a concussion, your brain isgetting shocked and everything
is scrambled.
And the days, bruce, you knowthe days of getting hit on the
field and popping back up andthe coaches on the sideline how
many fingers do you see?
Right, right, okay, you're good, you're going back in a minute
later or the second half.
Those days are over.
(20:51):
Look what happened to tua asjust one example, to a shoot up
from the miami dolphinsquarterback to a should have
never been able to play so manygames that quickly.
He wasn't ready.
This is where we come in havingthe sensors that we're dropping
in in real time showing.
Not only is Tua not coming backa week later, tua is not coming
(21:16):
back for the next 11 games.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
All right, so let's talk about that.
So we discussed that.
The mechanism, how you protectthe athlete, is that you know if
the force is in the mandibulararea, you can reduce the amount
of force that is reaching thebrain, because you could press
in the oral area.
You could press the amount ofshock.
You absorb a lot of it, so lessreaches.
(21:40):
Now we all know that the realchallenge in this, in all sports
, is subconcussive trauma, theway the brain shakes, and we
know that there's not anythingin the world that can prevent
the brain from shaking in thehead.
So, when we're talking, blowsupon blows upon blows, which is
why we are advocating forcefullyfor the elimination of
(22:05):
concussive contact in children,because of the developing brains
and the issues that happen to adeveloping brain as they're
exposed to concussive, uh,concussive trauma.
And so your device, which itsounds, it sounds amazing from
the area, from the area.
Um, you know, you said you havethe data and science, uh, that
(22:26):
support that I there was nostudies on your website, but I
was.
You know, I'm very interestedin the amount of reduction in
that device, is it?
It was you?
It was compared to other mouthguards or those studies with
your device well, we could, wecould send that to you.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
We have it in our in uh investment deck.
We have, we have it in severalplaces.
I'm not quite sure what you saw, but nevertheless it does show.
You know, not only do we testour product, we test it against
other major manufacturers andthey failed miserably.
They failed miserably.
Most of these mouthguards haveone layer, maybe two, right,
(23:06):
that's not even a mouth guard.
Yeah, I mean in a short period.
The most important thing isthat these mouth guards are
ill-fitting in a short period oftime.
And when a mouth guard isill-fitting that right, there is
already a problem, because if amouth guard does not fit right,
(23:26):
it can't protect right.
And with our 3D printing ourmouth guards are a precision fit
.
They snap into place right andit's going to be a very tight
fit.
It gives the athletesconfidence to wear it as they
perform, knowing they can dishout a hit and take a hit without
(23:48):
this mouth guard beingdislodged.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So let's talk about the hits.
What's your position onchildren playing contact sports?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Well, I think there should be an age.
I know they're changing rulesall the time in sports.
You've seen that.
I know that parents areconcerned about contact sports
and I wouldn't be surprisedbecause of all the problems.
I mean you see some young kidsalready getting concussions
(24:18):
already.
You know, under 12 years oldthat's a major problem.
I mean that opens a door.
Then you know what happens at15, 16, 17, um.
But we have to, we have to putour best foot forward.
We have to put our best footforward.
I know, I know they're makingsome strides on changing helmets
and the silliest thing I sawthe other day I think I saw some
(24:39):
of these new helmets being wornin the nfl right, you've seen
them as well and the athletesnot wearing a mouth guard.
I mean yeah, get the yeah yeah,and there's actually a lot of
talk.
Yeah, and actually I wasthinking to myself one hit yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
So there's actually a lot of talk that the current
helmet design is actually theworst at all because of the
transmission of force from themandibular area because it's all
locked in.
It's all locked in and thatreally causes it like, and so
they're looking at helmets nowthat are full, they come around
and if you, you know thatprotection takes the, you know,
because the compression of thejaw to your point, right, if
(25:18):
that compression is notcontrolled it's also a
significant cost of concussionson hits because the way that
that jaw force is transmitted tothe brain, so you know.
So for your device to reducesome of that concussive blow,
there is a point saying that,and I mean there's actually a
good point for wearing anythingthat can help reduce any point
(25:39):
of concussion, especially whenthe child is playing concussive
sports or at the proper level.
But to your point, it doesn'tmatter what you're doing,
cheerleading these girls take,you know, hits, you know
lacrosse, soccer, everybody'sout there and you can't stop the
accident from happening, butyou know it would be.
(26:00):
Do you sell, you know,obviously, with you know
children playing sports andneeding this protection because
you get a concussion in anysport, do you sell children,
these devices as well?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Well, right now we're working on that, bruce Right
now, the different versions thatwe have, that we can, we can
say for basically 12 years andup, for the reason being a lot
of these young children havedeciduous teeth, in other words,
baby teeth right, and they'relosing them, and so on.
Yeah, so basically from 12 andup, we could see these athletes
(26:35):
wearing them.
And also, I'd like to go backto what you were asking a minute
ago who's wearing these mouthguards?
We have many MMA fighterswearing these coast to coast.
We have a lot of major goldmedal winners from the US ski
(26:56):
team, darren Routes.
Oh, they need these.
Darren Routes is the mostprestigious male racer from the
United States, most prestigiousmale racer from the United
States.
He's won so many gold medalsall around the world skiing and
he's wearing our mouth guard.
He also has segued his careerin making movies Warren Miller
(27:19):
movies.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I love my Warren Miller movies.
Used to catch them every yearin Colorado, man.
Yeah, love them, darren.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Rouse is a major athlete.
He's one of these guys you seein these movies where you know
they're up about 17,000 feetsomewhere in Alaska and he's
jumping out of a helicopter, youknow, going off a cliff.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
So Darren Rouse is wearing it.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, we just finished a mouth guard with
Johnny Mosley.
Johnny Mosley is another goldmedal US skier that is wearing
it.
Both these athletes, they comeout of Squaw Valley or Palisades
as they call it now.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yes, sir, that's where they practice.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
In Lake Tahoe.
They're both ambassadors to theresort at Squaw Valley and
Palisades.
So we have many footballplayers, a few Buckeyes, wearing
it right now and our push isfor the entire team to wear it
because we want to make a forcenot just in our backyard but
coast to coast in many highschools and college level
(28:20):
players.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So let's talk about these AI sensors, because I
think right now, this could bethe greatest innovation right
now in America for parents.
Right now, you cannot buy adevice that can tell a parent
that their child incurred asubconcussive hit and to what
magnitude or concussive blow.
Doesn't matter that their headhas taken trauma.
(28:43):
And parents want to know, andthey deserve to know.
If my child is playing sportsand they get harmed, it's not
about liability or anything.
They just want to know if theycan make a decision to take care
of their child.
Have they suffered a concussivehit or how many sub-concussive
hits have they had?
You know, do we need to go seea concussive specialist?
Yada, yada, your device rightnow.
(29:05):
If need to go see a concussivespecialist, yada, yada, your
device right now if I read itright, is getting ready to is
going to allow parents insightinto that type of, those types
of metrics and that type ofinformation, which is astounding
.
So where are you at with thisproduct and when do you think
that you are going to release itand tell us all about it?
(29:25):
This is exactly we've heard ofsensors in rugby, in world rugby
right now.
I think they're wearing it, butonly the team gets the data,
not the athletes.
And I'm a rugby player, Icouldn't even know.
I wouldn't even know whatsubcustum trauma is right.
So for you, you are educatingthe populace with this device.
So what's the plans?
Tell us all about this.
(29:52):
Is this exciting?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
This is where technology can really impact the
issue of repetitive ed impactsfor all of us.
You're absolutely right.
This is a game changer.
We're very fortunate for theteam that we have and, thanks to
Dr Haseem Roy and his team,they're coming up.
They have the sensor for themouth guard.
Sensors have been around for abit now.
(30:13):
The NFL has been toying withthat.
The problem is they havenothing compared to what we're
going to be doing and hopefullywe're going to have that coming
out this year.
We're going to have severaldifferent types, different
versions, and I'll touch base onthat right now.
Bruce, in real time.
In real time, parents, coaches,trainers will have the ability.
(30:36):
If somebody takes a major hiton the ice on the football field
, the parents and all of us willknow where we stand with that,
what kind of hit that was.
Is that a hit that's going totake Johnny or Susie out for the
next six months, or?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
should it take them out?
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
We'll be able to tell no more.
How many fingers do we see?
How many fingers do you see,right, yeah, those days are over
.
We'll be able to see, rightthen and there, what that looks
like.
We'll also be able to see, whenMike Tyson hits his next
opponent, as an example, whatthat looks like.
So imagine this Bruce you'rewatching a big time fight,
(31:19):
you're watching some MMA fight,ufc fight, right From Las Vegas
or Dubai, and you'll see afighter take a hit right there.
The audience, the pay-per-viewcrowd, will actually be able to
see.
You'll have a meter.
We'll be able to see what thatlooks like and what just
(31:42):
happened, what transpired fromthat hit, whether it's an elbow,
a fist, a knee, what have youright We'll be able to dive
right in and see that, and sothat is amazing.
That is something we're veryexcited about.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
It is amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
We're working with that right now and we're eager
to come out and have that foreverybody, parents included.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
How are you going to so?
And that is important, sir youcould change the game with this.
So do you know what kind ofthreshold you're going to be
using for the for you know, forthe for the sensor to go off,
how are you going to displaythis?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, let's talk about the sensors in general.
So obviously we're talkingabout sensors, you know, for for
, for combat sports, right,football, basketball, you know
any of the sports like that.
We'll be able to put thosemouth guards in place and in
real time see that.
But some of these sensors rightNow you talk about some of the
(32:44):
trainers at colleges andfootball.
They'll say, well, we alreadyhave something right.
They have this device, a vest,that that some of these athletes
are wearing.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, Riddell has the helmet, the lining jacket.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, they measure the temperature, the oxygen
intake and so on.
They're able to measure all ofthat.
Or some people have these fancysmartwatches, right, when
they're jogging, it shows themThey've got a smart ring.
Now, yeah, I was going tomention that.
And the unfortunate part, bruce, all these items are mentioning
are completely unreliable, andI'm going to tell you why, bruce
(33:21):
and it's not me saying thatthis comes from a major you know
, uh, neurologist, it's theproblem with those devices that
people are buying.
Neurologist, it's the problemwith those devices that people
are buying.
They have the information, thedata has to go through the human
skin, the epidermis, right?
(33:42):
And the problem is that iswhere the data gets skewed,
right, because it has to gothrough the skin.
The most accurate way toretrieve that data, bruce, is
through the oral cavity, righthere in your mouth, and so
that's where the sensors aregoing to be in.
Each sensor has a differentapplication.
We're talking only about one,one sensor right now.
Other sensors that we'll beworking on, well, we'll
(34:05):
basically measure the pH levelof a human.
We'll also be able to monitor,you know, the cholesterol, right
?
We talk about high bloodpressure, all these things, you
know.
We're talking about wellness.
Now right, All these thingswill have a different
application, and all these otherones we talked about are giving
(34:26):
false data false data.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Let's get back to the subconcussive trauma here,
because this is key.
So will you tell parents, likeon your screen?
So a lot of these sensors areout there, like the helmet
sensors for Riddell.
Well, when the hit goes off,the coach gets it on the
sideline right.
Number one that data is notallowed to be shared with the
parent.
(34:49):
Number two there is noexplanation of the magnitude of
that hit.
So Riddell says we set this atan industry accepted level, but
they won't tell you how many Gsit is.
Is it 25 Gs?
The NFL says 95 Gs is aconcussive hit.
Most doctors say it's around 30to 25.
(35:10):
So big disparity there.
But will you?
There's your sensor right now,as you plan it, how will it
display the gravity of the hit?
What is the measurements thatare going to be used right now?
Or what do?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
you plan on.
Right now we're working on thatand I can't speak directly of
that.
Okay, but we're going to beusing color codes for that,
whether it be red, and all theparents, trainers and coaches
and players they'll be able tolook at the color.
What that then would transpire.
(35:45):
Okay, all right, and so rightnow we're working on that and we
will definitely get back withyou on that information as it
comes out Would love to, and sowhen do you think you're going
to have this device on themarket, sir?
We're looking at 24.
I'm sorry 25 to be the year ofthat happening at this
(36:08):
particular point.
Prototypes we're working on aswe speak, and so we're looking
and working on that, you knowpretty hard right now.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
I'll be one of your testers.
You give me one of those.
I'll have Mike Tyson punch me inthe head and I want to see
where that thing goes, becausethis I'll tell you what, doc, I
mean you're going to be in for alittle bit of pushback that the
parents have this access to theinformation.
Expect that, Okay, but do notgive up on that.
These parents right now have noway to measure what's happening
(36:35):
to their child and if you staytrue to the intent of this
device, you will be the firstapplication that a parent can
monitor a child when they'replaying soccer tiddlywinks, you
know, basketball tag jumping outof trees, it doesn't matter.
We now know right now, rhi isthe largest preventable cause of
(37:00):
mental illness in this countryand we have to track this.
We need to know when Johnny orSusie has been harmed, when they
hit that red, even when theyhit that yellow.
So I think you are on amagnificent mission right now to
shine a light on the issue ofsubcustive trauma with your
devices, and I would back you100% with your mission to take
(37:22):
to be able to at least allow theparents to understand what's
going on with their children,because nobody else is doing
that right now.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I'm going to tell you something, bruce.
Our mission, our missionstatement is very clear.
Our number one priority is, isthe athlete.
And if we can, if we can havethese athletes, you know, go out
there, have the parents, knowthat their, that their, their,
their young athletes are saferwearing an appliance that only
can protect their dentitionright, their teeth Right and you
(37:51):
know, and at the same timereduce the chances of TBIs,
traumatic brain injuries.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
I mean that's, I would say, reduce the amount of
pressure that causes a TBI.
But you know it's.
Yeah, I think that would be afair statement and then also
transmit this critical data tothe parent or the sideline,
right?
I mean the coaches need to knowtoo.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean we don't, what a mission.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
We don't want.
We don't want too many to uswalking around, that we don't
want any to us.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Right, and you're to your point and a lot of even I.
All right, so let me ask you aquestion.
When two of God hit I think itwas, you know he hit his head on
the back Okay, that your devicewould still be able to, you
know, measure the impact?
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
That could mitigate that, that impact, that, that
that he unfortunately had.
But you know we're talkingabout one particular person too.
I mean, what about all?
What about all the?
What about all the athletesthat we don't that took a hit,
we're not even talking about?
They got a major headache.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
It happens to every.
I mean, and that's what we haveparents understand that as soon
as your kid enters contactsports, they are going to have
subcursive trauma.
That's it.
You cannot get away with it.
If the head moves, the brainmoves, and if you allow it to
move too much, you're going tochange the brain in ways that
(39:17):
are not positive for the mentalhealth and brain health of that
child.
That is why preventive ordiagnostic technologies like
yours, right, that can alert aparent to these issues, are
going to be so.
You are the future, doc.
You are the future.
I mean.
This is where we need toleverage technology to protect
our kids and to make sportssafer, not to ban the sports,
not to, you know, piss thecoaches off because the parents
on the sideline go hey, man, mykid needs to come out.
(39:37):
That's what should be ourpriority anyways.
Is that athlete you just saidit that child, their brain, is
the priority, not winning thesegames.
All right, I mean, it's just.
You know we can no longer godown this path of allowing
children to play sports.
Oh, in the name of winning,we're going to keep Tommy out
there, and I know from this appthat I got from my helmet
manufacturer.
He's already taken a bunch ofhits, but you know he's still
(39:59):
functional, right?
He's still not, you know,stumbling around or falling down
.
We've got to win this game.
That is the most crappyapproach to coaching in this
world right now when it comes toour children, and we have to
change that, and your technologycan do it.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
So yeah, go ahead.
We have to protect the athlete.
You know whether it's the Tuas,you know the Mike Websters out
there that had situations, if wewould reach them at an earlier
state.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Right, and we're the guys that's going to stop them
from having so much exposure.
And then, when they are playingthose contact sports preferably
18, but maybe in high schoolthat's the compromise and
there's no contact practicesduring the week they're going to
be wearing your device becausethat coach is going to know and
we're behind you 100% on thisone, doc.
(40:52):
I mean this is great.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I appreciate that, Bruce.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
It's going to be amazing.
So tell our audience how tofind you.
Where do they go to the website?
I would definitely post yourresearch papers on there.
If you're going to claimresearch, they should be able to
see it, but I think yourinvestor deck's on there too.
Yeah, but tell our audiencewhere to go.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Doc.
It's real simple, bruce.
They can go to exportguardscomto check us out the website.
You'll see athletes, you'll seetestimonials, you'll see all
that on there.
It talks about our missionstatement, it talks about our
involvement with community andI'd like to touch base on this
real quick that exportmouthguards.
(41:35):
You know we would like to workwith donors and nonprofit
organizations to create awinning strategy, because we
believe all athletes, bruce,need protection, regardless of
their demographics, and we canmake that difference today and
for tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
All about it, sir, and that's a great closing point
.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
Cannot thank you.
Great mission, doc.
I'm on that AI technology.
I'm going to follow you everyweek.
Folks.
Another great edition of ourpodcast, broken Brains.
Cannot thank you enough forcoming on.
Remember, go to thewebsitempfactcom.
Get our free copy of this bookso that you can be informed the
(42:16):
only copy, the only book outthere endorsed by all the senior
ct neurologists in this countryfor you to read, get informed.
Get our app on google smart uh,head smart at the head smart
app on google.
We've got the town hall inMarch for veterans and RBE.
We're going to be doingseminars for NFL players and
we've got our conference comingup on repetitive brain trauma in
(42:40):
September here in Tampa andhopefully we'll have Mr Sattel
Sig on there talking about thisnew dynamic innovation where
parents can actually measurewhat's going on with their kids
for the first time in history ofsports.
Thank you so much for listening.
God bless you, sig.
Thank you so much for coming onboard and God bless you and
(43:02):
your mission.
And thank you folks, take careyou.
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