July 13, 2025 • 46 mins
In this compelling episode of Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman, we’re joined by former U.S. Army Green Beret and co-founder of Revival Hyperbarics, Wren Murray, for a powerful discussion on traumatic brain injury (TBI), PTSD, and the groundbreaking role of hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) in veteran recovery.
Wren shares his deeply personal experience with repetitive brain trauma from combat and training, and how HBOT changed the trajectory of his life. He unpacks the science behind neuroinflammation, the hurdles of getting alternative treatments recognized in traditional medicine, and the urgent need for policy change to expand access to HBOT for those who need it most—veterans, first responders, and athletes.
If you or someone you love is affected by TBI or PTSD, this episode offers hope, science-backed insights, and a call to rethink how we approach healing from the invisible wounds of war.
👉 Don’t forget to follow, like, share, and subscribe on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts to stay informed and inspired.
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is sponsored by The Mac Parkman Foundation
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma
00:22 Understanding the Impact of Head Injuries
00:23 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma
02:55 Wren Murray's Journey and Military Background
06:25 The Impact of Traumatic Brain Injury
10:48 Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy: A New Hope
15:30 The Benefits and Protocols of HBOT
20:11 Understanding PTSD and Neuroinflammation
22:36 Neuroinflammation and Its Impact
23:58 The Role of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT)
26:12 Challenges in Medical Acceptance of HBOT
28:51 Insurance and Treatment Accessibility
30:21 The Need for Standardized Protocols
33:18 Future Directions and Expansion Plans
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wren-murray-941b051a0/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wmurr13/?hl=en
Website: https://www.revivalhyperbarics.com/about
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hey folks, welcome to another episode of Broken
Brains and your host, bruceParkman, sponsored by the Mack
Parkman Foundation, the onlynational voice in the issue of
repetitive brain trauma.
On this show, we look at theissues of repetitive head
impacts from contact sports andrepetitive blast exposure for
our military veterans and whatit's doing to the brains of our
kids, athletes and veterans, andhow this is responsible for the
(00:35):
largest preventable cause ofmental illness in this country.
And this is critical for you toknow, because this condition is
not trained in our nursing,psychological or our doctor
communities.
So everybody that suffers fromit millions of Americans are
being mistreated, misdiagnosedand they continue to spiral.
So you need to know thisinformation.
So we bring on leadingadvocates, researchers and
(00:56):
scientists to discuss differentmodalities, treatments and areas
where we can improve brainhealth, so that you can be
informed.
Our guest today is anotheramazing veteran, green Beret.
Thank you very much for yourservice.
Rand Murray is a former US ArmyGreen Beret and the co-founder
and CEO of Revival Hyperbarics,a veteran-owned hyperbaric
oxygen therapy HBOT cliniclocated in South Jordan, utah.
(01:19):
After sustaining a traumaticbrain injury during his
deployment to Afghanistan in2017, mr Murray underwent HBOT
treatments in 2019 and 2020,which he credits with
significantly aiding hisrecovery.
Motivated by this experience, heestablished Revival Hyperbarics
(01:40):
to provide similar healingopportunities to fellow veterans
and their families.
His dedication to serviceextends beyond his military
career.
In 2025, on an interview withthe Security Hall podcast, he
discussed how HBOT issignificantly transforming
recovery for veterans dealingwith TBI, ptsd, lyme disease,
and shared his insights from hispersonal journey and the
(02:02):
mission of Revival Hyperbarics.
He's also completed therigorous SAPR school in memory
of his teammate, aaron Butler,who was unfortunately killed in
action, despite suffering from abroken back and a TBI at that
time, like he ain't got enoughto do, he persevered through the
training to pay tribute to hisfriends and through his company,
revival Hyperbarics, wrencontinues to support the
(02:24):
veterinary community, offeringHBOT treatments aimed at
improving the quality of lifefor those affected by
service-related injuries.
Wren, welcome to the show, sir,and thank you for dialing in
all the way from where the heckis?
South Jordan, utah?
I don't even know where Utah isfor the most part.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
North Nevada, West Colorado, somewhere in that
general area.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Cool beans.
Well, welcome to the show man.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
I mean, you're a Green Beret,what group were you in and how
long did?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
you serve.
So I started off as an Intelguy at first, so I was a human
guy.
Then I was attached to a thirdgroup on a deployment side of
Gover and go to selection.
Go that route.
So as charlie kind of what Iwas in 19th group as a jtech,
jtech instructor kind of didthat that whole thing okay good
on you.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Well, thank you very much for your service and so
obviously it was an injury thatgot you into um.
You know hbot therapy andtreatment.
Can you tell us about thatinjury and what happened?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
yeah, so we were on a kind of a clearing operation in
17 for ISIS-K and we were in abuilding that got hit by a
recoilless and turned into amass cow.
So we had a lot of a lot ofbrain injuries lost.
Some dudes got medevaced forkind of the backbreak, the
shrapnel, the TBI so kind ofbeyond.
That was kind of like thejourney to journey to kind of
(03:42):
get back to myself, because youknow, refusing to be one of
those disgruntled veterans andhave that crutch and you know
wanted to, you know, be a partof society and not not be, not
take a hand out yeah, I meanit's, uh, it says a lot about
you, sir, because you know thereare a lot of veterans that
never stop being a veteran,right and after the military.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You know there's a lot of things that never stopped
being a veteran, right andafter the military.
You know there's a lot ofthings that we can do in this
world to serve others, to serveand to improve ourselves.
Right, I mean it's you know,and so good for you for moving
on that journey.
How long did it take you torecover?
Were you medevaced through alaunch stool on the way back to
the States?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
We actually that's a whole other story, interesting
story.
We actually well back toMcKenna.
We took General Milley's jetback to J-Bad and then we went
to McKenna and then we were.
They were telling us we weregoing back in the valley to do
that push again.
And at this time, you know,dudes are on crutches throwing
through through legs, kneecapsblown.
(04:45):
You know, dudes are on crutchesthrough and through through
legs, kneecaps blown out, dudeswith tbi.
So we kind of there's a few ofus that got to go to germany and
then, you know, a lot of usdidn't.
Okay, some dudes stayed yearsin walter reed.
Uh, because of it and that waskind of the inspiration for me
to go it was my, my team leader.
He uh, fractures pelvis,fractures neck.
He couldn't even talk, reallytalk anymore.
(05:05):
He called me speaking fullsentences because, you know, at
this point trying to tryingpsychedelics, trying therapy,
trying to get back to normal,trying to find that new normal,
you know cause, you know it'skind of like you, it's hard to
accept a new normal when it'snot very fulfilling and this is
kind of a bad, a bad head placeto be and those kind of that
(05:26):
motivation factors like thiscan't be, this can't be it.
And then kind of where I foundmyself running out of options.
You know, I get a call from myteam leader and he's speaking
full sentences and I'm like whatthe hell are you doing, dan?
He's like to hyperbaric trend.
You got to try it.
Mission 43 in Idaho and theGreen Brown Foundation will pay
for you to come up here.
I'm like he's like, but you gotto dedicate.
I'm like at this point, I'm allin.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So how long was it between the?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
incident and that phone call, that, the.
When you got that, you see, um,I mean I tried to be like
everybody else and just keepdriving on.
So I did that for a couple ofyears, so I didn't get out till
2020.
And then, pretty much rightwhen I got out, I got treatment
late 2020 and then 2021.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
All right, so you you got injured in 2017.
Wow, so you were three years,you know on, you know, I guess
reserve, or is the reserve anational guard?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
yeah, I was full time .
I think I was full time all but18 months of the 12 years I was
in.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Okay, so all right all right, so you did.
Yeah, I mean, everybody stayedbusy.
So you're in for 12 years.
Man, that's a lot and um andthere and that, and so um were
you.
You know, obviously you trieddifferent modalities.
Did any of them help you at allwhen you were, when you were
exploring?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I mean, in my opinion it was kind of a kind of a
band-aid.
You know it's kind of likedifferent type of therapies.
You know prolonged exposurekind of made it less sensitive.
You know I was talking about it.
You know, psychedelics kind ofseemed like it helped
momentarily but it seemed liketo fade as quickly as it came
(06:59):
and I wasn't really able toretain the lesson, I wasn't
really able to gain that insight, and so it was kind of this
little holding pattern that likethe mindset is kind of with the
blast, and where I was at causewe were living in the mountains
, kind of clearing and holdingand just living up there and
that was kind of the lifestyle.
And then, uh, the blasthappened.
It seemed like I was just stuckin that mindset, you know.
(07:22):
And so the transition was likethis you know you're in the
stuck in this, like survivalmode, like no emotion, you know,
like just kind of almostbarbaric.
You know it's just sounds funbut it's like not when.
You know you don't want to be.
You're kind of a shell of whoyou are trying to scream to get
out, have feelings and havenormal interactions and have
relationships.
You know, it seems like a lotof dudes we talk to and help
(07:46):
with.
Here it's relationships crash,you know.
Empathy crashes, you know.
People become real mechanical,you know they want to be the
person they are and sometimesthey can.
If they know who they areenough, they can pretend for a
long time, you know.
And then Hyperbarics it wasliterally like someone had been
holding my head underwater andkind of lift my head up and took
(08:06):
a deep breath.
See, like colors look different, emotions look different, and
it was pretty surreal for me.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, I mean and that brings up a good point is that
when people start talking aboutwhat can we do to heal brains,
especially when we're talkingabout repetitive brain trauma or
even just massive blasts likeIED right, I mean whether you
know the damage occurs fromthousands of small hits or one
big blast, which I'm sure is notthe only big blast.
(08:34):
You suffered 12 years inspecial forces.
You know their brains are notall alike.
There's not one brain protocolout there that can be prescribed
over and over and over againbecause of the complexity, organ
, the different variations ofinjuring the brain and how we
respond to treatment.
So for you it sounds like I'vebeen trying psychedelics which
have helped, you know, hundredsof thousands of veterans.
(08:56):
You know over the years andsome of the other stuff.
Hbot was your treatment man, soyou know that's amazing.
So where did you go for?
So you got a call from yourteam leader and where did you
end up going for treatment?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I went to Sun Valley Sun Valley Hyperbarics with Phil
Rainey so he helps a lot ofdudes up in Idaho so it's a
pretty cool place to go.
Sun Valley, you can walk to FlyFish, just shut off social
media and take care of yourself.
But really, you know it was, itwas awesome Cause it was, it
was really just what I needed,because I just got out, so I
hadn't started working yet.
(09:32):
So to go up and just disconnectand just work on myself was
like was the perfect, perfecttransition.
And so the again thepsychedelic thing.
Um, I will say after hyperbaricsit was effective.
It was almost like I was tryingto tune a car with a blown
motor.
So I think there's, in myopinion, there's an order to all
(09:53):
this and I think a lot ofpeople do it backwards.
In my opinion, tuning a carwith a blown cylinder.
But with hyperbarics you canactually build new capillaries,
get blood flow back in yourbrain, get new neuroactivity,
make new neural pathways, putyour brain in a neuroplastic
state.
So you're kind of getting agood reset.
You're resetting your cortisolor you're resetting a lot of
(10:16):
your hormones.
It's super good success forpeople with PTSD and TBI.
Then, once you have all theright tools in your pocket, then
go.
If you need more, then go.
Then go.
Get that tune done, then go,then go find yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
That's interesting because we we know that we do
promote brain supplementationprograms.
You know, to balance thechemistry, get the brain
chemically backwards supposed tobe, you know, after it's been
impacted by blast, by SSRIs orwhatever crazy drugs the VA has
given our veterans or or ourathletes, man, these kids are
(10:51):
getting medicated left and rightwith life-ending benzos and all
kinds of dumb stuff.
So, um, but that you knowabsolutely.
You know, for you know, tryingto figure out what is the order
right, um, we deal with thebrain optimization lab, which is
(11:12):
big on HBOT andphotobiomodulation and vagus
nerve stimulation.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat, because that's very
interesting, that you wouldrecommend HBOT before everything
.
And so the benefits, talk about, tell us about some of the
benefits of HBOT.
And then, and how many?
The first time you went through, how many treatments did you
have to conduct in order toreach a?
You know, a state of, you knowimprovement.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
So I did two sessions of 40.
Wow.
So we do it a little differenthere and we work with America's
Mighty Warriors.
They're awesome.
Debbie Lee it was Mark Lee'smom, the first seal that killed
in Iraq.
She runs this nonprofit andthey're great to work with and
they do 40 to up to 60 dives.
(11:59):
Because basically, with thefirst 40, I felt a lot of you
know, all my migraines were gone, all my light sensitivity was
gone, noise sensitivity is gone,my vertigo is gone.
I can feel my memory comingback and just remembering random
events that I couldn't evencome close to processing or
reaching for, you know, likeinterpreters, names or just
(12:19):
silly stories.
And then so that 40 was overand that was the protocol for a
green gray foundation at thetime, and then mission 43 paid
for me to go back, or vice versa.
Mission 43 paid first time andthen and I thought that was it
the 40, you know I was like,well, I feel a ton better.
I'm glad I did it, you know.
And then my friend's likeyou're still an asshole.
(12:41):
And then at the same time I hada friend, seth Goggins, at a
fifth battalion.
He read my testimony in SunValley.
He said, hey, can you come withme for my 40?
And I'm like I mean, you know,austin Green Brave Foundation,
see if they'll pay for it, I'lldo another 40.
And so really that was where itwas more monumental for me and
(13:02):
that's when I realized, you knowlike these protocols matter.
The duration matters.
It's because I would drive upin the morning and look at a
glean of past.
You can kind of see thesawtooth and the sunrise is just
, it's amazing, it's superbeautiful and but I didn't
realize how beautiful it wasuntil one morning I went up
there and watched the sunrise.
I started bawling and all of asudden I felt alive and then it
(13:26):
was.
It was at that moment.
It's like colors look different.
I could feel again.
I had empathy again.
It was like the light switchturned on and I'm like, oh and
so that was like the huge, hugeimpact.
You know, beyond that, it's likekind of, at the first I had I
was like shiznickle.
And then the emotional, you know, and I didn't even notice, I
was so worried about themigraines, the emotion being
(13:49):
back to myself.
It's like kind of the shrapnelI had in my hand and like I
couldn't really close my pinkythat well, like that went away
and I didn't even notice theelbow pain from shrapnel went
away.
I didn't even notice Cause,like you're, you're kind of
you're zoned in on what's reallybothering you, it's really
(14:11):
dragging you down, so it kind ofI didn't realize how much
better I was until I finally gotmy emotions back and the lights
turned on and I kind ofrealized all of everything, all
these other things are gone,like having had a migraine, I
can go outside without.
You know, if you don't gooutside with your sunglasses,
you're like it's just horriblepain that turns into migraine
that you shut down, you know,and then it's.
But now I see guys that aredoing that and I, you know I'll
(14:33):
talk hyperbaric until I blew inthe face because, like you see,
quality of life it's just shit,you know, but it's so that.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
I'm sorry that first that first 40.
How long did that take you toget through it?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So he runs a pretty hard protocol.
I ended up doing the same here.
We do twice a day, six days aweek, so we can burn through
Within a month.
We could burn through, butAmerica's Mighty Warriors are
awesome in the fact that they'lldo up to 60.
Because the reason I think Imay not have needed as many the
second time?
Because once you get to 20 divesand Dr Frani's kind of studied
(15:09):
this over and over again, theIsraelis are really light years
ahead of us on this that at 20hours of consecutive diving your
stem cells 34 and 42, go to800% and you start because you
can proliferate, multiply andyour own stem cells.
So you're kind of creating anenvironment where this can
happen and kind of the act ofgoing down in pressure and
coming up out of pressure,you're also promoting a hypoxic
(15:31):
induced factor and kind of whatthat means is if you, if you got
a crush wound on your arm andyour body can identify it, it's
going to try to rebuildcapillaries and rebuild the
nerve so you don't lose it.
But going down in pressure withpure oxygen and that's so much
saturation.
Coming back out of pressureyour body thinks it's
suffocating and it'll have ainduced, that hypoxic induced
(15:54):
factor and so we do air brakesat the bottom to do that again
and the significance of that.
With the brain injuries you canactually rebuild capillaries
and bypass the areas that don'thave blood and you can see it on
a nuclear spec scan.
After 40 dives you can seeblood flow increasing and it's a
permanent increase.
Today you create newcapillaries, so it's not a
(16:16):
subscription.
You're fundamentally improving,fundamentally changing, and
that's why, in my opinion, withdudes with TBI or PTSD, it's
really a matter of time untiltheir brain's turned back on.
You know, if it's not going fastenough, I'll look at their
glutathione levels, look attheir methylation.
You need to make sure they havethe proper amount of
(16:37):
antioxidants because there's alot of things that can kind of
prohibit their own health.
Um, with simple fixes likefolate or b12, b6 along the way,
and uh.
Another interesting example isI was treating a five-year-old
kidney failure and uh, shewouldn't change or like go to
the bathroom by herself and 15dives in that went away.
(17:00):
Then I wrote a white paper.
Hopefully get into SOCOM andtry to.
You know, I went to Softweek.
I'm banging on as many doors asI can.
It seems like you know.
You look I was there, man, whata zoo.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
It was wild.
Yeah, that was my 15th one dude.
I've been in that thing.
I've been.
I'm the chairman of thefoundation that runs that puppy
dude.
It's what they've done with isamazing man.
So did you go to?
Are you going?
Did you go to the soft medcourse?
I think that they're stilldoing the soft medics thing.
They have some kind of medicconference the week after soft
week.
Did they have that this year?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
They told me that I talked to some start major and
come in contact with kind oflike a weekly it's like a week
every Wednesday they talk, andthere it's like a week every
Wednesday they talk.
So I'll make my way back out toFlorida, but anybody I can get
to listen because it's Send meyour stuff, man.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I mean, I'm on General Fenton's brain team, man
, I'm on his, you know heinvites me in.
Well, he's invited me in once.
And after I started selling ourArmy-Navy game, I never, you
know, he's like Parkman and I'veknown him a long time.
But, um, I can you know, sendit to me.
I know his command psychologist.
I can help you disseminate that.
Yeah, I mean, it's um, cause wehave a study going on here in
(18:13):
Florida right now.
Have you heard about the studywith Joe Duterte?
I think it's uh, they'retreating like 200.
It's a full, it's a full goldstandard longitudinal study.
Yeah, you know, and he's gotyou know his protocols.
I don't think right now, Idon't think the protocols matter
right now, anything other thangetting people to recognize that
(18:34):
.
All right, let me just ask you asimple question.
I ask everybody with a modalitythis question what's the
percentage of people that youtreat that have a positive
experience with the modalitythat you have, which is HBOP,
100%, all right?
See, this is what I keep goingback to Congress with.
It's like look, man, you've got.
(18:55):
You know, we've been doing thiswrong for 20 something years
with drugs and therapy when wehave brain damage and until we
change it.
You know we don't have to waitfor FDA approval for all these
modalities, and we have 80,.
You know we don't have to waitfor FDA approval for all these
modalities and we have 80, 90, ahundred percent of people
coming out of this thing going.
This helped me, save my life,maybe a better person, whatever
their issue is Right.
(19:15):
You know you.
You, you didn't commit a crime.
You sign your line Like I did.
You know you did your time.
You got out, you got hurt.
We should be taking care of you.
It's that simple, right?
But we've still got a way toget, because even if we do get
FDA approved, we've still got toget the medical community
accepted the insurance coverage,right, that's the big thing.
And then scale these thingsright.
(19:36):
I've talked to the jury aboutthis a lot, but I can help you
down here at SoCal.
Not a problem, no promises, butI can try.
So what's your white paperabout, man?
Talk to me about that.
What are you pushing, man?
What are you pushing?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So kind of it's kind of multifaceted about kind of
what I think PTSD is and kind ofrelating to that five-year-old.
You know, like she did 15 divesand all of a sudden that PTSD
was gone.
She wasn't afraid to change andshe wasn't afraid.
So you know, we all think aboutPTSD in a way of.
You know we internalizeourselves in a way that's our
(20:14):
own detriment and then I argue abit that I think it's
neuroinflammation that'saffecting our hypothalamus,
because the five-year-old is notaware of it themselves.
But all of a sudden, 15 divesthey show up, run around talking
to strangers and like tells hermom she's going to go change
herself, so you're going to goto the bathroom by herself, so
you go to therapy, she's, she'sjust doing dive in between
(20:36):
dialysis, like that was a bigeye opener.
Or like a woman got her childleft in a hot car it's in three
dives, her stutter's gone.
Brain fog car it's in threedives.
Or stutters gone, brain fog'sgone.
You just said I think there's.
I think there's a lot of thisPTSD that's kind of there's a
neuroinflammation, there's aphysical piece in, also a mobile
, the mobile side of it as well.
It's like if we can get todudes when they get hurt, then
(20:58):
then it won't be this 40 diveprotocol, it won't be the 60
dive protocol.
You know, I helped my, mywife's sister, got a car wreck
and then a day or two later shehad a stutter.
That was just like my teamleaders.
So I flew to Arizona I know DrBorsan out there Then dive
number seven, stutter gone, andso you bring up some really good
points, because I don't want totalk about post-traumatic
(21:21):
stress.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
I want to talk about post-traumatic growth and
literally when people startthinking, you know every time
there's stuff like what you wentthrough was not post-traumatic
stress, that was not PTSD.
You have been throughpost-traumatic growth, which has
taken, you know, a tragedy.
It was taking that stress andturning it into something
positive instead of relying onvictimology or crutch.
(21:45):
Or you talk about thoseveterans that are out there and
they'll tell you I got PTSDforever.
It's like, well, you don'tright, you got a condition that
can be relieved but you got totake some steps.
But neuroinflammationespecially with repetitive blast
exposure, repetitive headimpacts we now know that
neuroinflammation is the largestproblem that we have in the
(22:06):
brain.
For our audience, can youexplain a little bit about what
neuroinflammation is, how doesit impact brain health?
And then, how does HPOT make itbetter?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
So with neuroinflammation.
It's kind of I know the audienceprobably read a lot of your
body keeps the score and so yournerves can store information
and that information can createinflammation.
And then so that inflammation,if it's great enough, can pass
your blood-brain barrier and forall purposes it looks like
affecting your hypothalamus,your hippocampus, and then
(22:37):
promoting neurodegeneration.
And then so you know like, foran easy example of body keeping
a score would be like you shotin the elbow and you bump your
elbow at the grocery store butyou go home and you have
sweating with anxiety.
It doesn't mean you're thinkingabout it, it doesn't mean
you're actively participating init, but your body will remember
.
So you have kind of thisinflammation of your nervous
(22:59):
system that really can startattacking your own brain, and so
you have somatic events thatkeep compounding.
So you get more and morecortisol, you get more and more
inflammation and eventually, ifit starts passing your blood
brain barrier, now, now you'recreating exponentially larger
problems for yourself, and youcan see it in people's speech
(23:20):
lack of word, recall, brain fog,sleep, cortisol, hormones, you
know so it's, and it's like youknow, and the bandaid is throw a
bunch of prescriptions, likeyou're saying, but I haven't
treated a veteran, yet thathasn't got off.
Every single prescriptionwithin 10 dives with no
withdrawal.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
That's like SSRIs, benzos, like all these crazy
drugs they give you get.
You've been able to get themoff that.
That's amazing, because theadditional part I was hoping
you'd touch upon is that we knowfrom repetitive blast exposure,
from TBI inside the brain,because of the damage done to
the brain, there is this chronicstate of neuroinflammation.
(24:00):
You know you were a Green Beret.
You know you probably shot acrap load of AT4s, you've been
around breaching charges, you'veshot a lot of 50 cal, whatever,
and then you've been in combatwhere there is no control over
the repetitive blast exposure.
You have right and we know thatnow shooting me.
You know heavy caliber rifles,whether it's a 50 cal or a
(24:20):
sniper rifle or you knowwhatever.
All this is additional.
You know damage done to thebrain, all the blast exposure,
all that and thatneuroinflammation because of
your lifestyle.
It doesn't end and that eatsinto the brain, it degrades the
myelin, it causes all kinds ofproblems.
It'd be interesting to see oneday what we can do to validate
(24:43):
how HBOT addresses that, becausefrom an RBE and RBHI
perspective, it could be very,very powerful.
And I still think to your pointthat it does.
It has to be doing somethingpositive because of if you have
a TBI, you haveneuroinflammation for a long
time, man, and you got to close,you know, basically a closed
wound.
We can't see in there.
(25:03):
We can't see what's going on,you know.
So for HBOT, I think it ispromising.
Why is there so much pushbackfrom the medical community on
something that has such a highrate of positive influence on
anybody?
I know Everybody I know hastouched.
I can't wait to get in one ofthese chambers.
I just don't have the timeright now to take 40 dives.
(25:25):
But you know, why is there suchpushback to HBOT?
You know, I just don'tunderstand it.
When I started, I was on, I wasa plank member of the Green
Beret Foundation.
You know I stroked a big checkto help them get going, you know
, and then some of the initialrequests that we got and
approved were HBOT back in 09and 010.
(25:46):
And here we are, 15 years laterand crickets right, no, there's
no, I mean.
Well, I mean I know there's a.
It's not being condonesprescribed covered.
You know, you're talking aboutall these foundations.
What's the big issue, man?
What's the problem?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I mean, I think a lot of these nonprofits, like the
Green Beret Foundationparticularly.
You know they paid for us allto go and I talked to them when
I was in SoCal.
I'm like, hey, like all of usfeel so much better.
But I have testimonies.
But even contacting you guys, Ilike to give them to you, to my
friends too, because like andso from the Green Beret's
perspective, foundation'sperspective, I can see why the
(26:25):
program will get cut.
But really, you know, like Ihave on my computer testimonies
for life-changing experience andlike, really they're the ones
that helped me do this.
But you know, why would peoplefund it if they don't understand
it?
You know, but there's nofollow-up.
It's kind of a good idea.
But for the medical community,you know, it's hard, not to say
that people, it's easier.
(26:47):
So every hospital hashyperbaric chambers.
So I've treated people withcarbon dioxide poisoning, death
covered.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Say that again because that's a fact I didn't
know.
So every hospital has ahyperbaric chamber in it.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, if not every every other, because there's
some things you have to use ahyper chamber for.
Like what?
Carbon dioxide poisoning, uh,crush wounds, burns covering
more than 50% of your body.
Certain infections, gangreneWow, they do a Marx protocol for
people prone to infection intheir teeth.
They don't think antibioticswill help.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Let's see I got a list here.
I mean that's cool.
I had no idea that there were,that I didn't know that was
there.
Was that many available, right?
I'm thinking you know there'slike one or two in a state or
something like that, right youknow?
So that's different.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, so that even like sudden hearing loss.
We've treated a bunch of thatrecently, you know.
So it's.
That's the strangest thing tome.
You know, even the ent's bestguess is some weird virus,
something.
And then the crazy part is, ifI can get you within 30 days,
you have a pretty high successrate.
I think it's like 85% After 30days.
(27:58):
Your success rate goes to 10 to20%.
But you also have to go throughtheir steroid protocols for
cortisol.
You have to go through their,their steroid protocols for
cortisol.
You have to go through thetesting, but usually by the time
they get to me you've alreadyreached outside that window.
I luckily encourage people justto go out of pocket.
We try to backdate if we needto, and try to work with
insurance because because I'veseen it firsthand not work, you
(28:21):
know 45, 60 days later becauseyou're going through the process
and then.
So they think there's a hugeit's, it's.
It's really interesting and uh,it's interesting the process
and the way that they decide todo any of this.
And what TBI and PTSD?
For me it's interesting becauseyou know we show them a nuclear
spec scan that shows blood flowand they'll they'll say, well,
(28:43):
there's blood flow, but itdoesn't mean you're better.
You show them neural activity,they'll see neural activity and
they're like but that doesn'tmean you're better, and so it's
this back and forth game.
But then if you look atantidepressants, then you'd be
playing the same game.
How do you know it worked?
Well, you'd have to draw onyour brain.
And so how does that getapproved?
And that would be the questionof the day.
(29:06):
That stumps me.
If you can prescribe something,you can't see work on e-test,
but an opinion.
But we can't do it withhyperbarics.
I think the problem too is, ifI treat you, I don't want to see
you again, unless it's come tosay hi.
So I want it to be a one donething.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I don't want a monthly Yeahring revenue, bro,
that's big to them.
Farmer ding-dongs man.
Yeah, I was just talking to agirl on the podcast today who's
got an amazing ketamine protocoland the medical community is
pushing back because they wantto see you forever, dude.
They don't want to cure you,they don't want you to go away
(29:46):
and not come back, which is ahuge problem with our for-profit
medical community, and itbothers the hell out of me,
especially when it comes down tothis.
So you are getting insurancecoverage right now for the folks
that are using your protocols.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yes, there's 14 preexisting conditions that you
can use insurance for.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
but if you venture outside of that, then no way so
you just got to make sure yousomehow fall in the bucket.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Oh yeah, and usually by the time they get to there
they've already got diagnosed,because usually it's chemo, a
lot of it's chemo damage.
Let's say, most insurance workis damage to the hospitals due
to chemo.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Really, Wow, yeah, wow, I'd say.
Most insurance work is damageto the hospitals due to chemo.
Really Wow, I got a wife thatmight be able to use this.
So what about TBI?
Is it approved for TBI andconcussions?
Nope.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
And that's the argument of the antidepressants.
They use the argument of peoplethat brought up TBI and PTSD's
like well, we see blood flow, wesee neural activity, but how do
we know they're better?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
well, you also got a patient that's saying this help
me, so that's the same opinionyou're going to rely on with the
drugs, right?
Oh, you make me feel better.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I can't feel my toes, but I feel better you know, and
that's the exact thing, that'sthe baffling thing, that's the
and that's the exact thing.
That that's, that's thebaffling thing.
That's.
That's the battle.
That's the battle we'll fight.
You know, the bigger I can get,the more I'll fight that battle
.
Yeah, so that's, that's my goal, because it's it really is.
It's terrible that there'sdudes out there suffering like
that and and they got to go tolook.
(31:21):
I got to find them, thenon-profits got to find them.
It's all these backdoor dealsto try to figure out, get them
help.
You know, so like that, becauseI was doing contract work with
the DEA, doing some executiveconsulting after you know, after
I did HBOT, but honestly, Ifelt so guilty for feeling good,
you know, drove me over here todo this, but it shouldn't have.
(31:42):
I'm happy it's me, you know.
But it shouldn't have to be me,you.
It shouldn't have.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
I'm happy it's me you know, but it shouldn't have to
be me.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, no, I mean I, I got youman, there's um, there's just so
much that we, we, we, we canand we can't do, but the fact
that you know, you got, you gota, you know you got a company,
now you're reaching out andyou're helping people, and
you're right.
Finding them is, you know, thehardest, the hardest piece.
How do you find?
Right now?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh, man, how do people find you?
I went to I've been to BlackWar alumni that talked to all
the battalion commanders.
Anybody to listen or anybody inthe area that'll come?
I'll invite them over here,I'll go to them, or you know.
So it's kind of, even if it'snot me, it's kind of.
I think the awareness needs tobe known.
So the 19th group, you know Ihave had certain need to come
(32:32):
over.
I have flyers.
I'll go to any event anywherehappening and just to let them
know this.
Like, hey, there's funding, wecan help you.
Don't save for the next team,don't save for the next guy,
cause that's what everybody'sgoing to say.
Well, there's always someoneworse.
It's like there's alwayssomeone worse.
But like, if I'll get morechambers, I'll get more
employees.
If that comes down to me notbeing able to handle it, so
(32:53):
don't save it for the next guy.
If you're struggling.
You know what I mean.
How many chambers you got?
We have two, but I can put infour, okay, so we put six vets
roughly per month.
Six, seven vets for all, 60dives in a month, okay, and your
protocols.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
are they standardized for the industry or they are
your protocols?
Because I know you mentionedgoing up and going down.
I've been to the Aviv Clinicover here in the middle of the
state.
They do that.
They go up and down and theysay you know, they said they're
there, they've got the best,they're Israeli, they got the
best protocols.
(33:30):
Joe Duterte does something alittle bit different.
I don't know they.
There's a lot of you know, Ican't stand it when people in
the same industry just can't getalong and just work together.
But I guess it's a.
There's a lot of ego andeverything.
I don't have an ego anymore soI really don't care, but it
pisses me off.
So, like, what do you?
What do you got?
(33:51):
What are?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
you doing, man, and how did you get your protocols
established?
So when I was at Sun Valley,philip, there's a mad scientist
and he's been doing for a longtime, so just me getting treated
, I'd always be picking hisbrain because he seems like he
always had the why foreverything.
Okay, so you get to twoatmospheres, your spinal fluid
starts moving.
You get down to two and a halfatmospheres, you're affecting
(34:12):
muscle skeletal, you know.
So it's an alternation betweena light and a deeper dive.
Deeper dives, where I'm out, doit in the evening.
So for me it's two dives.
You know we do two dives a day,five, six days a week, and
that's.
We run a pretty hard protocolfor the bets that come true.
But the reason that I believethat's the way to do it is
(34:34):
because when I was in Sun Valley, I saw a vet who did one a day,
four or five days a week, and Isaw the same vet a vet who was
in the same incident, he was inthe same squad do twice a day,
six days a week, and the onethat did once a day was like
yeah, I think I, I feel better.
And then, when I did twice aday, six days a week was like
how do I donate, how do I getinto this, how do I help?
(34:55):
And so for me, the starkdifference was like, well,
someone's not going to beconsistent, then I don't want to
take their money or even starta program.
It's like, hey, find a point inyour life that it matters to
you to make a change.
Like don't drag us on when youhave free time, cause you're
just wasting all of our time,you know?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, yeah, hey, and for those people that might be
asking, you know, um, you knowthere's a lot of ways to rent
HBOT chambers.
You know you get the soft sidechambers, stuff like that and
they, I mean, you could buy yourown if you got that kind of
coin.
What are your guidelines onthat?
You know for people that youknow, like my son-in-law had a
brain tumor so we got him anH-Bot chamber at home and kind
(35:36):
of got him in that for quite awhile, you know, just to help
him.
You know, with healing, what'syour, what's your
recommendations?
When is it good, not good?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
with mild and regular hyperbarics.
It's kind of like, if you needthat vascular growth, if you
need that neural growth, if youwant that stem cell growth, if
you need big change, I think thedeeper chamber is the way to go
.
Obviously it's time, it's money,it's all the things I think
mild hyperbarics does reallywell with inflammation
(36:11):
management, recovery.
So for athlete recovery, maybe,if something's going on in your
body you need to help recovery,help manage inflammation.
I think that, with consistency,is a good tool.
So it kind of depends on, likein my opinion, like with a tumor
, you kind of want theangiogenesis in conjunction with
the T cell production to try toget more oxygen to get in there
(36:33):
to fight it, versus becausetumors are inherently hypoxic so
they can't really your body hasa hard time fighting it, so
there's not a lot of blood flowin there, it just kind of
leeches what it needs, and sofor that I would say it'd be
beneficial maybe to do someharder dives and really take
some other compounds that peoplemay find scary to also boost
(36:57):
your T cells to help fight that.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Cool, good enough.
So you got a clinic right nowas we close out, because we got
to get ready for another show.
So what do you?
How do people find you right?
What are you up to next?
All right, so tell, this isthis is your five.
10 minutes.
Takes much time.
Thump your chest.
Tell us.
What is Ren Murray up to man?
What are you doing?
What's your next steps?
Where do you see this going?
(37:21):
What do you want to achieve?
And then, how do people findyou?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Oh, man so I think, expansion here I think we have
the potential to expand in Utahmore handle, more capacity, kind
of working in the angle ofdoing more blood work making
kind of working in the angle ofdoing more blood work, making
kind of a more standardizedprocedure, a predictive analysis
of what procedures are workingand what aren't working and also
, depending on people'snutrition and blood, what's
(37:49):
going on in their body, just totry to be as effective as
possible.
I think that'll be.
That's exciting, exciting forme, kind of nerdy, but you know,
other than that, have anine-month-old.
That's exciting.
That's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
No contact sports man .
I'm telling you you don't wantto be in my camper.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I'll contest to that onefor her.
Good thing it's female, sohopefully she won't play in
football.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
No head in soccer balls is just as bad right now,
man.
I wrote the book on this thing.
Man, I'll get you one, man,don't worry about it.
Man.
So I love new dads, man, it wasthe best title.
Still got two beautiful girls,man.
So you know it's a.
Yeah, that's good.
So you got a nine-year-old.
And then, um, what are youtrying to do with legislation?
Or, uh, you know your whitepaper stuff, where you want to
go with that?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
So with the, with the white paper, well, there's some
broad service announcements outwith SOCOM right now for TBI,
ptsd research and it's.
It's really.
It's like if I can get theawareness, like the contract's
great, whatever.
You know what I mean.
It's it's If I really justwanted to make money, I'd just
do insurance.
But if I can give qualityresults that people can just
look at and try to realize likeokay, shit, we can do something
about helping our own guys out.
(39:05):
You know it's not.
I just think there's not enoughawareness.
You know it's like a lot oftimes you talk about HBot and it
looks like people look at youlike you're wearing a wig made
of dildos.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, or some doctor says, ah,this shit don't work, right, I
mean cause they're, they'reasking around and people do not
know that.
You know the hundreds of peopleyou've treated.
You know the a lot of people Imean they, they, they got $26
million to fund this study herein Florida and you know, and the
(39:38):
hope was that by establishingthis longitudinal study now we
can go to FDA.
You know we go to VA, tricareand get these guys help.
And then you know, but, yeah,but we got to have protocols and
I'd like to know more about youknow about that.
And we are having a summit, theonly international summit on
repetitive brain trauma here inTampa.
(39:59):
So right up the street, as amatter of fact, it's one half
mile from MacDill Gate.
So if you want to come on out,we'll send you an invitation
coming out.
Maybe there's a spot for you ona panel to talk about
hyperbarics.
Joe Duterte will be there andwe can just have a discussion on
(40:21):
hyperbarics and why we need tomove forward with this and how
do we scale it right?
I mean, because that's the bigissue, man, once this becomes a
standard of care, we're gonnaput all these h-bot machines
right, and how we're gonnaschedule.
And I, you know, I know there'ssome for-profit.
You know, people I've talkedabout that want to, you know,
build like the cryo industryright, all these little mom and
pop shops, you know, and stuff,dude, that's, that's amazing.
(40:42):
But what do you want to do withthat?
Speaker 2 (40:44):
um, I mean, even if it's, even if it's like getting
into the thorpe program, there'salready dive teams.
It would be easy to certify.
You know, like you know, leteverybody handle their own.
Or you know like I have a, Ihave a.
I have a little line in thewhite paper on mobile, so kind
of like, if people are hurtingsomewhere, coming to them to get
treatment, making it easilyaccessible wherever they're at,
(41:05):
wherever the injury, they have abad jump, they have a bad dive,
they have bad whatever.
And it's like we can preventthis damage instead of having,
you know, having to deal withthe TBI, having to deal with
their divorce, having to dealwith you know, all that.
You know because all of asudden you know, hey, that guy
got a brain injury and now he'san asshole and now he has no
emotions Like, well, you know,in my opinion, we could, we can
(41:27):
prevent that and we could take alittle bit of active measures
If, if we know that this is whatit does and this is dudes are
killing themselves and dudes arelosing their lives for this,
it's like for a couple of daysof their time to prevent their
brain from swelling.
Because you look atneuroinflammation.
What's inflammation, it's alack of blood flow.
Lack of blood flow is lack ofoxygen, Yep.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
So two things the brain needs, man.
Two out of threesupplementation man Gotta get
some food, you know.
But yeah, you're all over thespace, man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
But I'd love to come out and chat.
I'm really down to talk towhoever will listen to me rant
about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
We got some legislation in Congress right
now that's going to, you know,authorize coverage for HBOT,
along with psychedelics, brainsupplementation and all this
stuff.
So I'll fill you in on that.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
And I'd love to explain to people the order,
because I'm a firm believer.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I'm looking for orders because we get people
calling up and we're makingrecommendations.
But you know we're just aservice.
Our job is to get theinformation out there.
We need you to talk to thespecialist, so we'll have them
call you.
Man, I'm all about it, We'llput you on a speed dial, Don't
worry about it.
Awesome, I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
All right, Ren.
Thank you so much, man.
Thank you for your service, notonly to this country but to our
(42:47):
service members and to all, andwith your modality, Keep it on
it.
I love seeing Green Beretssucceed.
Nothing makes me more proud tosee you know other Green Berets
moving out man and selflessservice to others is just a
passion and moving on from justbeing a veteran to a veteran
with a mission.
Good for you, man.
God bless you and keep on going.
(43:08):
All right, I appreciate it.
Thanks for having me my pleasure.
Man, folks, folks, anothergreat episode of broken brains.
Remember, go to the website,get your free book, download it.
Find ren murray's organization.
Do you have a website, by theway?
Speaker 2 (43:23):
yep, reberkscom, you'll have my.
You have a number on there.
People can reach out to me, wecan get.
I can get someone set up for 4060 dives in a week or two beat
that chest man revival hyperbarrackscom.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Go there, learn about this stuff, man, because it
could apply to you or somebodyyou love.
So, signing off, remember oursummit on repetitive brain
health September 3rd and 4th atthe Special Forces Teamhouse
right outside MacDill.
Go to the app.
Download our app, the SmartHeadapp or HeadSmart app.
Learn about brain, repetitivebrain trauma.
(43:56):
Take care of your children,become informed.
Like us, share us, subscribe tous.
We really appreciate that.
Pushing it out because it's ourjob as the only voice of
repetitive brain trauma from theMack Parkman Foundation, to
make sure people are aware sothey can heal, they can come
back to themselves, come totheir families and they can take
care of themselves and stay onthis planet if they're hurting
(44:19):
to that point.
And please give us a call ifyou're in that condition,
because we have an entirenetwork of people like Wren that
we can move you to to get thehelp you need.
You are not alone.
So, to all of you, thank youvery much.
Take care of those brains.
You only got one of them andit's all you are, and we'll talk
to you later on another episodeof Broken Branch.
Take care, bye-bye you.
Hey folks, welcome to another episode of Broken
Brains and your host, bruceParkman, sponsored by the Mack
Parkman Foundation, the onlynational voice in the issue of
repetitive brain trauma.
On this show, we look at theissues of repetitive head
impacts from contact sports andrepetitive blast exposure for
our military veterans and whatit's doing to the brains of our
kids, athletes and veterans, andhow this is responsible for the
(00:35):
largest preventable cause ofmental illness in this country.
And this is critical for you toknow, because this condition is
not trained in our nursing,psychological or our doctor
communities.
So everybody that suffers fromit millions of Americans are
being mistreated, misdiagnosedand they continue to spiral.
So you need to know thisinformation.
So we bring on leadingadvocates, researchers and
(00:56):
scientists to discuss differentmodalities, treatments and areas
where we can improve brainhealth, so that you can be
informed.
Our guest today is anotheramazing veteran, green Beret.
Thank you very much for yourservice.
Rand Murray is a former US ArmyGreen Beret and the co-founder
and CEO of Revival Hyperbarics,a veteran-owned hyperbaric
oxygen therapy HBOT cliniclocated in South Jordan, utah.
(01:19):
After sustaining a traumaticbrain injury during his
deployment to Afghanistan in2017, mr Murray underwent HBOT
treatments in 2019 and 2020,which he credits with
significantly aiding hisrecovery.
Motivated by this experience, heestablished Revival Hyperbarics
(01:40):
to provide similar healingopportunities to fellow veterans
and their families.
His dedication to serviceextends beyond his military
career.
In 2025, on an interview withthe Security Hall podcast, he
discussed how HBOT issignificantly transforming
recovery for veterans dealingwith TBI, ptsd, lyme disease,
and shared his insights from hispersonal journey and the
(02:02):
mission of Revival Hyperbarics.
He's also completed therigorous SAPR school in memory
of his teammate, aaron Butler,who was unfortunately killed in
action, despite suffering from abroken back and a TBI at that
time, like he ain't got enoughto do, he persevered through the
training to pay tribute to hisfriends and through his company,
revival Hyperbarics, wrencontinues to support the
(02:24):
veterinary community, offeringHBOT treatments aimed at
improving the quality of lifefor those affected by
service-related injuries.
Wren, welcome to the show, sir,and thank you for dialing in
all the way from where the heckis?
South Jordan, utah?
I don't even know where Utah isfor the most part.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
North Nevada, West Colorado, somewhere in that
general area.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Cool beans.
Well, welcome to the show man.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
I mean, you're a Green Beret,what group were you in and how
long did?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
you serve.
So I started off as an Intelguy at first, so I was a human
guy.
Then I was attached to a thirdgroup on a deployment side of
Gover and go to selection.
Go that route.
So as charlie kind of what Iwas in 19th group as a jtech,
jtech instructor kind of didthat that whole thing okay good
on you.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Well, thank you very much for your service and so
obviously it was an injury thatgot you into um.
You know hbot therapy andtreatment.
Can you tell us about thatinjury and what happened?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
yeah, so we were on a kind of a clearing operation in
17 for ISIS-K and we were in abuilding that got hit by a
recoilless and turned into amass cow.
So we had a lot of a lot ofbrain injuries lost.
Some dudes got medevaced forkind of the backbreak, the
shrapnel, the TBI so kind ofbeyond.
That was kind of like thejourney to journey to kind of
(03:42):
get back to myself, because youknow, refusing to be one of
those disgruntled veterans andhave that crutch and you know
wanted to, you know, be a partof society and not not be, not
take a hand out yeah, I meanit's, uh, it says a lot about
you, sir, because you know thereare a lot of veterans that
never stop being a veteran,right and after the military.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You know there's a lot of things that never stopped
being a veteran, right andafter the military.
You know there's a lot ofthings that we can do in this
world to serve others, to serveand to improve ourselves.
Right, I mean it's you know,and so good for you for moving
on that journey.
How long did it take you torecover?
Were you medevaced through alaunch stool on the way back to
the States?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
We actually that's a whole other story, interesting
story.
We actually well back toMcKenna.
We took General Milley's jetback to J-Bad and then we went
to McKenna and then we were.
They were telling us we weregoing back in the valley to do
that push again.
And at this time, you know,dudes are on crutches throwing
through through legs, kneecapsblown.
(04:45):
You know, dudes are on crutchesthrough and through through
legs, kneecaps blown out, dudeswith tbi.
So we kind of there's a few ofus that got to go to germany and
then, you know, a lot of usdidn't.
Okay, some dudes stayed yearsin walter reed.
Uh, because of it and that waskind of the inspiration for me
to go it was my, my team leader.
He uh, fractures pelvis,fractures neck.
He couldn't even talk, reallytalk anymore.
(05:05):
He called me speaking fullsentences because, you know, at
this point trying to tryingpsychedelics, trying therapy,
trying to get back to normal,trying to find that new normal,
you know cause, you know it'skind of like you, it's hard to
accept a new normal when it'snot very fulfilling and this is
kind of a bad, a bad head placeto be and those kind of that
(05:26):
motivation factors like thiscan't be, this can't be it.
And then kind of where I foundmyself running out of options.
You know, I get a call from myteam leader and he's speaking
full sentences and I'm like whatthe hell are you doing, dan?
He's like to hyperbaric trend.
You got to try it.
Mission 43 in Idaho and theGreen Brown Foundation will pay
for you to come up here.
I'm like he's like, but you gotto dedicate.
I'm like at this point, I'm allin.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So how long was it between the?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
incident and that phone call, that, the.
When you got that, you see, um,I mean I tried to be like
everybody else and just keepdriving on.
So I did that for a couple ofyears, so I didn't get out till
2020.
And then, pretty much rightwhen I got out, I got treatment
late 2020 and then 2021.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
All right, so you you got injured in 2017.
Wow, so you were three years,you know on, you know, I guess
reserve, or is the reserve anational guard?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
yeah, I was full time .
I think I was full time all but18 months of the 12 years I was
in.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Okay, so all right all right, so you did.
Yeah, I mean, everybody stayedbusy.
So you're in for 12 years.
Man, that's a lot and um andthere and that, and so um were
you.
You know, obviously you trieddifferent modalities.
Did any of them help you at allwhen you were, when you were
exploring?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I mean, in my opinion it was kind of a kind of a
band-aid.
You know it's kind of likedifferent type of therapies.
You know prolonged exposurekind of made it less sensitive.
You know I was talking about it.
You know, psychedelics kind ofseemed like it helped
momentarily but it seemed liketo fade as quickly as it came
(06:59):
and I wasn't really able toretain the lesson, I wasn't
really able to gain that insight, and so it was kind of this
little holding pattern that likethe mindset is kind of with the
blast, and where I was at causewe were living in the mountains
, kind of clearing and holdingand just living up there and
that was kind of the lifestyle.
And then, uh, the blasthappened.
It seemed like I was just stuckin that mindset, you know.
(07:22):
And so the transition was likethis you know you're in the
stuck in this, like survivalmode, like no emotion, you know,
like just kind of almostbarbaric.
You know it's just sounds funbut it's like not when.
You know you don't want to be.
You're kind of a shell of whoyou are trying to scream to get
out, have feelings and havenormal interactions and have
relationships.
You know, it seems like a lotof dudes we talk to and help
(07:46):
with.
Here it's relationships crash,you know.
Empathy crashes, you know.
People become real mechanical,you know they want to be the
person they are and sometimesthey can.
If they know who they areenough, they can pretend for a
long time, you know.
And then Hyperbarics it wasliterally like someone had been
holding my head underwater andkind of lift my head up and took
(08:06):
a deep breath.
See, like colors look different, emotions look different, and
it was pretty surreal for me.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, I mean and that brings up a good point is that
when people start talking aboutwhat can we do to heal brains,
especially when we're talkingabout repetitive brain trauma or
even just massive blasts likeIED right, I mean whether you
know the damage occurs fromthousands of small hits or one
big blast, which I'm sure is notthe only big blast.
(08:34):
You suffered 12 years inspecial forces.
You know their brains are notall alike.
There's not one brain protocolout there that can be prescribed
over and over and over againbecause of the complexity, organ
, the different variations ofinjuring the brain and how we
respond to treatment.
So for you it sounds like I'vebeen trying psychedelics which
have helped, you know, hundredsof thousands of veterans.
(08:56):
You know over the years andsome of the other stuff.
Hbot was your treatment man, soyou know that's amazing.
So where did you go for?
So you got a call from yourteam leader and where did you
end up going for treatment?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I went to Sun Valley Sun Valley Hyperbarics with Phil
Rainey so he helps a lot ofdudes up in Idaho so it's a
pretty cool place to go.
Sun Valley, you can walk to FlyFish, just shut off social
media and take care of yourself.
But really, you know it was, itwas awesome Cause it was, it
was really just what I needed,because I just got out, so I
hadn't started working yet.
(09:32):
So to go up and just disconnectand just work on myself was
like was the perfect, perfecttransition.
And so the again thepsychedelic thing.
Um, I will say after hyperbaricsit was effective.
It was almost like I was tryingto tune a car with a blown
motor.
So I think there's, in myopinion, there's an order to all
(09:53):
this and I think a lot ofpeople do it backwards.
In my opinion, tuning a carwith a blown cylinder.
But with hyperbarics you canactually build new capillaries,
get blood flow back in yourbrain, get new neuroactivity,
make new neural pathways, putyour brain in a neuroplastic
state.
So you're kind of getting agood reset.
You're resetting your cortisolor you're resetting a lot of
(10:16):
your hormones.
It's super good success forpeople with PTSD and TBI.
Then, once you have all theright tools in your pocket, then
go.
If you need more, then go.
Then go.
Get that tune done, then go,then go find yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
That's interesting because we we know that we do
promote brain supplementationprograms.
You know, to balance thechemistry, get the brain
chemically backwards supposed tobe, you know, after it's been
impacted by blast, by SSRIs orwhatever crazy drugs the VA has
given our veterans or or ourathletes, man, these kids are
(10:51):
getting medicated left and rightwith life-ending benzos and all
kinds of dumb stuff.
So, um, but that you knowabsolutely.
You know, for you know, tryingto figure out what is the order
right, um, we deal with thebrain optimization lab, which is
(11:12):
big on HBOT andphotobiomodulation and vagus
nerve stimulation.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat, because that's very
interesting, that you wouldrecommend HBOT before everything
.
And so the benefits, talk about, tell us about some of the
benefits of HBOT.
And then, and how many?
The first time you went through, how many treatments did you
have to conduct in order toreach a?
You know, a state of, you knowimprovement.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
So I did two sessions of 40.
Wow.
So we do it a little differenthere and we work with America's
Mighty Warriors.
They're awesome.
Debbie Lee it was Mark Lee'smom, the first seal that killed
in Iraq.
She runs this nonprofit andthey're great to work with and
they do 40 to up to 60 dives.
(11:59):
Because basically, with thefirst 40, I felt a lot of you
know, all my migraines were gone, all my light sensitivity was
gone, noise sensitivity is gone,my vertigo is gone.
I can feel my memory comingback and just remembering random
events that I couldn't evencome close to processing or
reaching for, you know, likeinterpreters, names or just
(12:19):
silly stories.
And then so that 40 was overand that was the protocol for a
green gray foundation at thetime, and then mission 43 paid
for me to go back, or vice versa.
Mission 43 paid first time andthen and I thought that was it
the 40, you know I was like,well, I feel a ton better.
I'm glad I did it, you know.
And then my friend's likeyou're still an asshole.
(12:41):
And then at the same time I hada friend, seth Goggins, at a
fifth battalion.
He read my testimony in SunValley.
He said, hey, can you come withme for my 40?
And I'm like I mean, you know,austin Green Brave Foundation,
see if they'll pay for it, I'lldo another 40.
And so really that was where itwas more monumental for me and
(13:02):
that's when I realized, you knowlike these protocols matter.
The duration matters.
It's because I would drive upin the morning and look at a
glean of past.
You can kind of see thesawtooth and the sunrise is just
, it's amazing, it's superbeautiful and but I didn't
realize how beautiful it wasuntil one morning I went up
there and watched the sunrise.
I started bawling and all of asudden I felt alive and then it
(13:26):
was.
It was at that moment.
It's like colors look different.
I could feel again.
I had empathy again.
It was like the light switchturned on and I'm like, oh and
so that was like the huge, hugeimpact.
You know, beyond that, it's likekind of, at the first I had I
was like shiznickle.
And then the emotional, you know, and I didn't even notice, I
was so worried about themigraines, the emotion being
(13:49):
back to myself.
It's like kind of the shrapnelI had in my hand and like I
couldn't really close my pinkythat well, like that went away
and I didn't even notice theelbow pain from shrapnel went
away.
I didn't even notice Cause,like you're, you're kind of
you're zoned in on what's reallybothering you, it's really
(14:11):
dragging you down, so it kind ofI didn't realize how much
better I was until I finally gotmy emotions back and the lights
turned on and I kind ofrealized all of everything, all
these other things are gone,like having had a migraine, I
can go outside without.
You know, if you don't gooutside with your sunglasses,
you're like it's just horriblepain that turns into migraine
that you shut down, you know,and then it's.
But now I see guys that aredoing that and I, you know I'll
(14:33):
talk hyperbaric until I blew inthe face because, like you see,
quality of life it's just shit,you know, but it's so that.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
I'm sorry that first that first 40.
How long did that take you toget through it?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So he runs a pretty hard protocol.
I ended up doing the same here.
We do twice a day, six days aweek, so we can burn through
Within a month.
We could burn through, butAmerica's Mighty Warriors are
awesome in the fact that they'lldo up to 60.
Because the reason I think Imay not have needed as many the
second time?
Because once you get to 20 divesand Dr Frani's kind of studied
(15:09):
this over and over again, theIsraelis are really light years
ahead of us on this that at 20hours of consecutive diving your
stem cells 34 and 42, go to800% and you start because you
can proliferate, multiply andyour own stem cells.
So you're kind of creating anenvironment where this can
happen and kind of the act ofgoing down in pressure and
coming up out of pressure,you're also promoting a hypoxic
(15:31):
induced factor and kind of whatthat means is if you, if you got
a crush wound on your arm andyour body can identify it, it's
going to try to rebuildcapillaries and rebuild the
nerve so you don't lose it.
But going down in pressure withpure oxygen and that's so much
saturation.
Coming back out of pressureyour body thinks it's
suffocating and it'll have ainduced, that hypoxic induced
(15:54):
factor and so we do air brakesat the bottom to do that again
and the significance of that.
With the brain injuries you canactually rebuild capillaries
and bypass the areas that don'thave blood and you can see it on
a nuclear spec scan.
After 40 dives you can seeblood flow increasing and it's a
permanent increase.
Today you create newcapillaries, so it's not a
(16:16):
subscription.
You're fundamentally improving,fundamentally changing, and
that's why, in my opinion, withdudes with TBI or PTSD, it's
really a matter of time untiltheir brain's turned back on.
You know, if it's not going fastenough, I'll look at their
glutathione levels, look attheir methylation.
You need to make sure they havethe proper amount of
(16:37):
antioxidants because there's alot of things that can kind of
prohibit their own health.
Um, with simple fixes likefolate or b12, b6 along the way,
and uh.
Another interesting example isI was treating a five-year-old
kidney failure and uh, shewouldn't change or like go to
the bathroom by herself and 15dives in that went away.
(17:00):
Then I wrote a white paper.
Hopefully get into SOCOM andtry to.
You know, I went to Softweek.
I'm banging on as many doors asI can.
It seems like you know.
You look I was there, man, whata zoo.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
It was wild.
Yeah, that was my 15th one dude.
I've been in that thing.
I've been.
I'm the chairman of thefoundation that runs that puppy
dude.
It's what they've done with isamazing man.
So did you go to?
Are you going?
Did you go to the soft medcourse?
I think that they're stilldoing the soft medics thing.
They have some kind of medicconference the week after soft
week.
Did they have that this year?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
They told me that I talked to some start major and
come in contact with kind oflike a weekly it's like a week
every Wednesday they talk, andthere it's like a week every
Wednesday they talk.
So I'll make my way back out toFlorida, but anybody I can get
to listen because it's Send meyour stuff, man.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I mean, I'm on General Fenton's brain team, man
, I'm on his, you know heinvites me in.
Well, he's invited me in once.
And after I started selling ourArmy-Navy game, I never, you
know, he's like Parkman and I'veknown him a long time.
But, um, I can you know, sendit to me.
I know his command psychologist.
I can help you disseminate that.
Yeah, I mean, it's um, cause wehave a study going on here in
(18:13):
Florida right now.
Have you heard about the studywith Joe Duterte?
I think it's uh, they'retreating like 200.
It's a full, it's a full goldstandard longitudinal study.
Yeah, you know, and he's gotyou know his protocols.
I don't think right now, Idon't think the protocols matter
right now, anything other thangetting people to recognize that
(18:34):
.
All right, let me just ask you asimple question.
I ask everybody with a modalitythis question what's the
percentage of people that youtreat that have a positive
experience with the modalitythat you have, which is HBOP,
100%, all right?
See, this is what I keep goingback to Congress with.
It's like look, man, you've got.
(18:55):
You know, we've been doing thiswrong for 20 something years
with drugs and therapy when wehave brain damage and until we
change it.
You know we don't have to waitfor FDA approval for all these
modalities, and we have 80,.
You know we don't have to waitfor FDA approval for all these
modalities and we have 80, 90, ahundred percent of people
coming out of this thing going.
This helped me, save my life,maybe a better person, whatever
their issue is Right.
(19:15):
You know you.
You, you didn't commit a crime.
You sign your line Like I did.
You know you did your time.
You got out, you got hurt.
We should be taking care of you.
It's that simple, right?
But we've still got a way toget, because even if we do get
FDA approved, we've still got toget the medical community
accepted the insurance coverage,right, that's the big thing.
And then scale these thingsright.
(19:36):
I've talked to the jury aboutthis a lot, but I can help you
down here at SoCal.
Not a problem, no promises, butI can try.
So what's your white paperabout, man?
Talk to me about that.
What are you pushing, man?
What are you pushing?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So kind of it's kind of multifaceted about kind of
what I think PTSD is and kind ofrelating to that five-year-old.
You know, like she did 15 divesand all of a sudden that PTSD
was gone.
She wasn't afraid to change andshe wasn't afraid.
So you know, we all think aboutPTSD in a way of.
You know we internalizeourselves in a way that's our
(20:14):
own detriment and then I argue abit that I think it's
neuroinflammation that'saffecting our hypothalamus,
because the five-year-old is notaware of it themselves.
But all of a sudden, 15 divesthey show up, run around talking
to strangers and like tells hermom she's going to go change
herself, so you're going to goto the bathroom by herself, so
you go to therapy, she's, she'sjust doing dive in between
(20:36):
dialysis, like that was a bigeye opener.
Or like a woman got her childleft in a hot car it's in three
dives, her stutter's gone.
Brain fog car it's in threedives.
Or stutters gone, brain fog'sgone.
You just said I think there's.
I think there's a lot of thisPTSD that's kind of there's a
neuroinflammation, there's aphysical piece in, also a mobile
, the mobile side of it as well.
It's like if we can get todudes when they get hurt, then
(20:58):
then it won't be this 40 diveprotocol, it won't be the 60
dive protocol.
You know, I helped my, mywife's sister, got a car wreck
and then a day or two later shehad a stutter.
That was just like my teamleaders.
So I flew to Arizona I know DrBorsan out there Then dive
number seven, stutter gone, andso you bring up some really good
points, because I don't want totalk about post-traumatic
(21:21):
stress.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
I want to talk about post-traumatic growth and
literally when people startthinking, you know every time
there's stuff like what you wentthrough was not post-traumatic
stress, that was not PTSD.
You have been throughpost-traumatic growth, which has
taken, you know, a tragedy.
It was taking that stress andturning it into something
positive instead of relying onvictimology or crutch.
(21:45):
Or you talk about thoseveterans that are out there and
they'll tell you I got PTSDforever.
It's like, well, you don'tright, you got a condition that
can be relieved but you got totake some steps.
But neuroinflammationespecially with repetitive blast
exposure, repetitive headimpacts we now know that
neuroinflammation is the largestproblem that we have in the
(22:06):
brain.
For our audience, can youexplain a little bit about what
neuroinflammation is, how doesit impact brain health?
And then, how does HPOT make itbetter?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
So with neuroinflammation.
It's kind of I know the audienceprobably read a lot of your
body keeps the score and so yournerves can store information
and that information can createinflammation.
And then so that inflammation,if it's great enough, can pass
your blood-brain barrier and forall purposes it looks like
affecting your hypothalamus,your hippocampus, and then
(22:37):
promoting neurodegeneration.
And then so you know like, foran easy example of body keeping
a score would be like you shotin the elbow and you bump your
elbow at the grocery store butyou go home and you have
sweating with anxiety.
It doesn't mean you're thinkingabout it, it doesn't mean
you're actively participating init, but your body will remember
.
So you have kind of thisinflammation of your nervous
(22:59):
system that really can startattacking your own brain, and so
you have somatic events thatkeep compounding.
So you get more and morecortisol, you get more and more
inflammation and eventually, ifit starts passing your blood
brain barrier, now, now you'recreating exponentially larger
problems for yourself, and youcan see it in people's speech
(23:20):
lack of word, recall, brain fog,sleep, cortisol, hormones, you
know so it's, and it's like youknow, and the bandaid is throw a
bunch of prescriptions, likeyou're saying, but I haven't
treated a veteran, yet thathasn't got off.
Every single prescriptionwithin 10 dives with no
withdrawal.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
That's like SSRIs, benzos, like all these crazy
drugs they give you get.
You've been able to get themoff that.
That's amazing, because theadditional part I was hoping
you'd touch upon is that we knowfrom repetitive blast exposure,
from TBI inside the brain,because of the damage done to
the brain, there is this chronicstate of neuroinflammation.
(24:00):
You know you were a Green Beret.
You know you probably shot acrap load of AT4s, you've been
around breaching charges, you'veshot a lot of 50 cal, whatever,
and then you've been in combatwhere there is no control over
the repetitive blast exposure.
You have right and we know thatnow shooting me.
You know heavy caliber rifles,whether it's a 50 cal or a
(24:20):
sniper rifle or you knowwhatever.
All this is additional.
You know damage done to thebrain, all the blast exposure,
all that and thatneuroinflammation because of
your lifestyle.
It doesn't end and that eatsinto the brain, it degrades the
myelin, it causes all kinds ofproblems.
It'd be interesting to see oneday what we can do to validate
(24:43):
how HBOT addresses that, becausefrom an RBE and RBHI
perspective, it could be very,very powerful.
And I still think to your pointthat it does.
It has to be doing somethingpositive because of if you have
a TBI, you haveneuroinflammation for a long
time, man, and you got to close,you know, basically a closed
wound.
We can't see in there.
(25:03):
We can't see what's going on,you know.
So for HBOT, I think it ispromising.
Why is there so much pushbackfrom the medical community on
something that has such a highrate of positive influence on
anybody?
I know Everybody I know hastouched.
I can't wait to get in one ofthese chambers.
I just don't have the timeright now to take 40 dives.
(25:25):
But you know, why is there suchpushback to HBOT?
You know, I just don'tunderstand it.
When I started, I was on, I wasa plank member of the Green
Beret Foundation.
You know I stroked a big checkto help them get going, you know
, and then some of the initialrequests that we got and
approved were HBOT back in 09and 010.
(25:46):
And here we are, 15 years laterand crickets right, no, there's
no, I mean.
Well, I mean I know there's a.
It's not being condonesprescribed covered.
You know, you're talking aboutall these foundations.
What's the big issue, man?
What's the problem?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I mean, I think a lot of these nonprofits, like the
Green Beret Foundationparticularly.
You know they paid for us allto go and I talked to them when
I was in SoCal.
I'm like, hey, like all of usfeel so much better.
But I have testimonies.
But even contacting you guys, Ilike to give them to you, to my
friends too, because like andso from the Green Beret's
perspective, foundation'sperspective, I can see why the
(26:25):
program will get cut.
But really, you know, like Ihave on my computer testimonies
for life-changing experience andlike, really they're the ones
that helped me do this.
But you know, why would peoplefund it if they don't understand
it?
You know, but there's nofollow-up.
It's kind of a good idea.
But for the medical community,you know, it's hard, not to say
that people, it's easier.
(26:47):
So every hospital hashyperbaric chambers.
So I've treated people withcarbon dioxide poisoning, death
covered.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Say that again because that's a fact I didn't
know.
So every hospital has ahyperbaric chamber in it.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, if not every every other, because there's
some things you have to use ahyper chamber for.
Like what?
Carbon dioxide poisoning, uh,crush wounds, burns covering
more than 50% of your body.
Certain infections, gangreneWow, they do a Marx protocol for
people prone to infection intheir teeth.
They don't think antibioticswill help.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Let's see I got a list here.
I mean that's cool.
I had no idea that there were,that I didn't know that was
there.
Was that many available, right?
I'm thinking you know there'slike one or two in a state or
something like that, right youknow?
So that's different.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, so that even like sudden hearing loss.
We've treated a bunch of thatrecently, you know.
So it's.
That's the strangest thing tome.
You know, even the ent's bestguess is some weird virus,
something.
And then the crazy part is, ifI can get you within 30 days,
you have a pretty high successrate.
I think it's like 85% After 30days.
(27:58):
Your success rate goes to 10 to20%.
But you also have to go throughtheir steroid protocols for
cortisol.
You have to go through their,their steroid protocols for
cortisol.
You have to go through thetesting, but usually by the time
they get to me you've alreadyreached outside that window.
I luckily encourage people justto go out of pocket.
We try to backdate if we needto, and try to work with
insurance because because I'veseen it firsthand not work, you
(28:21):
know 45, 60 days later becauseyou're going through the process
and then.
So they think there's a hugeit's, it's.
It's really interesting and uh,it's interesting the process
and the way that they decide todo any of this.
And what TBI and PTSD?
For me it's interesting becauseyou know we show them a nuclear
spec scan that shows blood flowand they'll they'll say, well,
(28:43):
there's blood flow, but itdoesn't mean you're better.
You show them neural activity,they'll see neural activity and
they're like but that doesn'tmean you're better, and so it's
this back and forth game.
But then if you look atantidepressants, then you'd be
playing the same game.
How do you know it worked?
Well, you'd have to draw onyour brain.
And so how does that getapproved?
And that would be the questionof the day.
(29:06):
That stumps me.
If you can prescribe something,you can't see work on e-test,
but an opinion.
But we can't do it withhyperbarics.
I think the problem too is, ifI treat you, I don't want to see
you again, unless it's come tosay hi.
So I want it to be a one donething.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I don't want a monthly Yeahring revenue, bro,
that's big to them.
Farmer ding-dongs man.
Yeah, I was just talking to agirl on the podcast today who's
got an amazing ketamine protocoland the medical community is
pushing back because they wantto see you forever, dude.
They don't want to cure you,they don't want you to go away
(29:46):
and not come back, which is ahuge problem with our for-profit
medical community, and itbothers the hell out of me,
especially when it comes down tothis.
So you are getting insurancecoverage right now for the folks
that are using your protocols.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yes, there's 14 preexisting conditions that you
can use insurance for.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
but if you venture outside of that, then no way so
you just got to make sure yousomehow fall in the bucket.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Oh yeah, and usually by the time they get to there
they've already got diagnosed,because usually it's chemo, a
lot of it's chemo damage.
Let's say, most insurance workis damage to the hospitals due
to chemo.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Really, Wow, yeah, wow, I'd say.
Most insurance work is damageto the hospitals due to chemo.
Really Wow, I got a wife thatmight be able to use this.
So what about TBI?
Is it approved for TBI andconcussions?
Nope.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
And that's the argument of the antidepressants.
They use the argument of peoplethat brought up TBI and PTSD's
like well, we see blood flow, wesee neural activity, but how do
we know they're better?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
well, you also got a patient that's saying this help
me, so that's the same opinionyou're going to rely on with the
drugs, right?
Oh, you make me feel better.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I can't feel my toes, but I feel better you know, and
that's the exact thing, that'sthe baffling thing, that's the
and that's the exact thing.
That that's, that's thebaffling thing.
That's.
That's the battle.
That's the battle we'll fight.
You know, the bigger I can get,the more I'll fight that battle
.
Yeah, so that's, that's my goal, because it's it really is.
It's terrible that there'sdudes out there suffering like
that and and they got to go tolook.
(31:21):
I got to find them, thenon-profits got to find them.
It's all these backdoor dealsto try to figure out, get them
help.
You know, so like that, becauseI was doing contract work with
the DEA, doing some executiveconsulting after you know, after
I did HBOT, but honestly, Ifelt so guilty for feeling good,
you know, drove me over here todo this, but it shouldn't have.
(31:42):
I'm happy it's me, you know.
But it shouldn't have to be me,you.
It shouldn't have.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
I'm happy it's me you know, but it shouldn't have to
be me.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, no, I mean I, I got youman, there's um, there's just so
much that we, we, we, we canand we can't do, but the fact
that you know, you got, you gota, you know you got a company,
now you're reaching out andyou're helping people, and
you're right.
Finding them is, you know, thehardest, the hardest piece.
How do you find?
Right now?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh, man, how do people find you?
I went to I've been to BlackWar alumni that talked to all
the battalion commanders.
Anybody to listen or anybody inthe area that'll come?
I'll invite them over here,I'll go to them, or you know.
So it's kind of, even if it'snot me, it's kind of.
I think the awareness needs tobe known.
So the 19th group, you know Ihave had certain need to come
(32:32):
over.
I have flyers.
I'll go to any event anywherehappening and just to let them
know this.
Like, hey, there's funding, wecan help you.
Don't save for the next team,don't save for the next guy,
cause that's what everybody'sgoing to say.
Well, there's always someoneworse.
It's like there's alwayssomeone worse.
But like, if I'll get morechambers, I'll get more
employees.
If that comes down to me notbeing able to handle it, so
(32:53):
don't save it for the next guy.
If you're struggling.
You know what I mean.
How many chambers you got?
We have two, but I can put infour, okay, so we put six vets
roughly per month.
Six, seven vets for all, 60dives in a month, okay, and your
protocols.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
are they standardized for the industry or they are
your protocols?
Because I know you mentionedgoing up and going down.
I've been to the Aviv Clinicover here in the middle of the
state.
They do that.
They go up and down and theysay you know, they said they're
there, they've got the best,they're Israeli, they got the
best protocols.
(33:30):
Joe Duterte does something alittle bit different.
I don't know they.
There's a lot of you know, Ican't stand it when people in
the same industry just can't getalong and just work together.
But I guess it's a.
There's a lot of ego andeverything.
I don't have an ego anymore soI really don't care, but it
pisses me off.
So, like, what do you?
What do you got?
(33:51):
What are?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
you doing, man, and how did you get your protocols
established?
So when I was at Sun Valley,philip, there's a mad scientist
and he's been doing for a longtime, so just me getting treated
, I'd always be picking hisbrain because he seems like he
always had the why foreverything.
Okay, so you get to twoatmospheres, your spinal fluid
starts moving.
You get down to two and a halfatmospheres, you're affecting
(34:12):
muscle skeletal, you know.
So it's an alternation betweena light and a deeper dive.
Deeper dives, where I'm out, doit in the evening.
So for me it's two dives.
You know we do two dives a day,five, six days a week, and
that's.
We run a pretty hard protocolfor the bets that come true.
But the reason that I believethat's the way to do it is
(34:34):
because when I was in Sun Valley, I saw a vet who did one a day,
four or five days a week, and Isaw the same vet a vet who was
in the same incident, he was inthe same squad do twice a day,
six days a week, and the onethat did once a day was like
yeah, I think I, I feel better.
And then, when I did twice aday, six days a week was like
how do I donate, how do I getinto this, how do I help?
(34:55):
And so for me, the starkdifference was like, well,
someone's not going to beconsistent, then I don't want to
take their money or even starta program.
It's like, hey, find a point inyour life that it matters to
you to make a change.
Like don't drag us on when youhave free time, cause you're
just wasting all of our time,you know?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, yeah, hey, and for those people that might be
asking, you know, um, you knowthere's a lot of ways to rent
HBOT chambers.
You know you get the soft sidechambers, stuff like that and
they, I mean, you could buy yourown if you got that kind of
coin.
What are your guidelines onthat?
You know for people that youknow, like my son-in-law had a
brain tumor so we got him anH-Bot chamber at home and kind
(35:36):
of got him in that for quite awhile, you know, just to help
him.
You know, with healing, what'syour, what's your
recommendations?
When is it good, not good?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
with mild and regular hyperbarics.
It's kind of like, if you needthat vascular growth, if you
need that neural growth, if youwant that stem cell growth, if
you need big change, I think thedeeper chamber is the way to go
.
Obviously it's time, it's money,it's all the things I think
mild hyperbarics does reallywell with inflammation
(36:11):
management, recovery.
So for athlete recovery, maybe,if something's going on in your
body you need to help recovery,help manage inflammation.
I think that, with consistency,is a good tool.
So it kind of depends on, likein my opinion, like with a tumor
, you kind of want theangiogenesis in conjunction with
the T cell production to try toget more oxygen to get in there
(36:33):
to fight it, versus becausetumors are inherently hypoxic so
they can't really your body hasa hard time fighting it, so
there's not a lot of blood flowin there, it just kind of
leeches what it needs, and sofor that I would say it'd be
beneficial maybe to do someharder dives and really take
some other compounds that peoplemay find scary to also boost
(36:57):
your T cells to help fight that.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Cool, good enough.
So you got a clinic right nowas we close out, because we got
to get ready for another show.
So what do you?
How do people find you right?
What are you up to next?
All right, so tell, this isthis is your five.
10 minutes.
Takes much time.
Thump your chest.
Tell us.
What is Ren Murray up to man?
What are you doing?
What's your next steps?
Where do you see this going?
(37:21):
What do you want to achieve?
And then, how do people findyou?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Oh, man so I think, expansion here I think we have
the potential to expand in Utahmore handle, more capacity, kind
of working in the angle ofdoing more blood work making
kind of working in the angle ofdoing more blood work, making
kind of a more standardizedprocedure, a predictive analysis
of what procedures are workingand what aren't working and also
, depending on people'snutrition and blood, what's
(37:49):
going on in their body, just totry to be as effective as
possible.
I think that'll be.
That's exciting, exciting forme, kind of nerdy, but you know,
other than that, have anine-month-old.
That's exciting.
That's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
No contact sports man .
I'm telling you you don't wantto be in my camper.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I'll contest to that onefor her.
Good thing it's female, sohopefully she won't play in
football.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
No head in soccer balls is just as bad right now,
man.
I wrote the book on this thing.
Man, I'll get you one, man,don't worry about it.
Man.
So I love new dads, man, it wasthe best title.
Still got two beautiful girls,man.
So you know it's a.
Yeah, that's good.
So you got a nine-year-old.
And then, um, what are youtrying to do with legislation?
Or, uh, you know your whitepaper stuff, where you want to
go with that?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
So with the, with the white paper, well, there's some
broad service announcements outwith SOCOM right now for TBI,
ptsd research and it's.
It's really.
It's like if I can get theawareness, like the contract's
great, whatever.
You know what I mean.
It's it's If I really justwanted to make money, I'd just
do insurance.
But if I can give qualityresults that people can just
look at and try to realize likeokay, shit, we can do something
about helping our own guys out.
(39:05):
You know it's not.
I just think there's not enoughawareness.
You know it's like a lot oftimes you talk about HBot and it
looks like people look at youlike you're wearing a wig made
of dildos.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, or some doctor says, ah,this shit don't work, right, I
mean cause they're, they'reasking around and people do not
know that.
You know the hundreds of peopleyou've treated.
You know the a lot of people Imean they, they, they got $26
million to fund this study herein Florida and you know, and the
(39:38):
hope was that by establishingthis longitudinal study now we
can go to FDA.
You know we go to VA, tricareand get these guys help.
And then you know, but, yeah,but we got to have protocols and
I'd like to know more about youknow about that.
And we are having a summit, theonly international summit on
repetitive brain trauma here inTampa.
(39:59):
So right up the street, as amatter of fact, it's one half
mile from MacDill Gate.
So if you want to come on out,we'll send you an invitation
coming out.
Maybe there's a spot for you ona panel to talk about
hyperbarics.
Joe Duterte will be there andwe can just have a discussion on
(40:21):
hyperbarics and why we need tomove forward with this and how
do we scale it right?
I mean, because that's the bigissue, man, once this becomes a
standard of care, we're gonnaput all these h-bot machines
right, and how we're gonnaschedule.
And I, you know, I know there'ssome for-profit.
You know, people I've talkedabout that want to, you know,
build like the cryo industryright, all these little mom and
pop shops, you know, and stuff,dude, that's, that's amazing.
(40:42):
But what do you want to do withthat?
Speaker 2 (40:44):
um, I mean, even if it's, even if it's like getting
into the thorpe program, there'salready dive teams.
It would be easy to certify.
You know, like you know, leteverybody handle their own.
Or you know like I have a, Ihave a.
I have a little line in thewhite paper on mobile, so kind
of like, if people are hurtingsomewhere, coming to them to get
treatment, making it easilyaccessible wherever they're at,
(41:05):
wherever the injury, they have abad jump, they have a bad dive,
they have bad whatever.
And it's like we can preventthis damage instead of having,
you know, having to deal withthe TBI, having to deal with
their divorce, having to dealwith you know, all that.
You know because all of asudden you know, hey, that guy
got a brain injury and now he'san asshole and now he has no
emotions Like, well, you know,in my opinion, we could, we can
(41:27):
prevent that and we could take alittle bit of active measures
If, if we know that this is whatit does and this is dudes are
killing themselves and dudes arelosing their lives for this,
it's like for a couple of daysof their time to prevent their
brain from swelling.
Because you look atneuroinflammation.
What's inflammation, it's alack of blood flow.
Lack of blood flow is lack ofoxygen, Yep.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
So two things the brain needs, man.
Two out of threesupplementation man Gotta get
some food, you know.
But yeah, you're all over thespace, man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
But I'd love to come out and chat.
I'm really down to talk towhoever will listen to me rant
about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
We got some legislation in Congress right
now that's going to, you know,authorize coverage for HBOT,
along with psychedelics, brainsupplementation and all this
stuff.
So I'll fill you in on that.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
And I'd love to explain to people the order,
because I'm a firm believer.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I'm looking for orders because we get people
calling up and we're makingrecommendations.
But you know we're just aservice.
Our job is to get theinformation out there.
We need you to talk to thespecialist, so we'll have them
call you.
Man, I'm all about it, We'llput you on a speed dial, Don't
worry about it.
Awesome, I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
All right, Ren.
Thank you so much, man.
Thank you for your service, notonly to this country but to our
(42:47):
service members and to all, andwith your modality, Keep it on
it.
I love seeing Green Beretssucceed.
Nothing makes me more proud tosee you know other Green Berets
moving out man and selflessservice to others is just a
passion and moving on from justbeing a veteran to a veteran
with a mission.
Good for you, man.
God bless you and keep on going.
(43:08):
All right, I appreciate it.
Thanks for having me my pleasure.
Man, folks, folks, anothergreat episode of broken brains.
Remember, go to the website,get your free book, download it.
Find ren murray's organization.
Do you have a website, by theway?
Speaker 2 (43:23):
yep, reberkscom, you'll have my.
You have a number on there.
People can reach out to me, wecan get.
I can get someone set up for 4060 dives in a week or two beat
that chest man revival hyperbarrackscom.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Go there, learn about this stuff, man, because it
could apply to you or somebodyyou love.
So, signing off, remember oursummit on repetitive brain
health September 3rd and 4th atthe Special Forces Teamhouse
right outside MacDill.
Go to the app.
Download our app, the SmartHeadapp or HeadSmart app.
Learn about brain, repetitivebrain trauma.
(43:56):
Take care of your children,become informed.
Like us, share us, subscribe tous.
We really appreciate that.
Pushing it out because it's ourjob as the only voice of
repetitive brain trauma from theMack Parkman Foundation, to
make sure people are aware sothey can heal, they can come
back to themselves, come totheir families and they can take
care of themselves and stay onthis planet if they're hurting
(44:19):
to that point.
And please give us a call ifyou're in that condition,
because we have an entirenetwork of people like Wren that
we can move you to to get thehelp you need.
You are not alone.
So, to all of you, thank youvery much.
Take care of those brains.
You only got one of them andit's all you are, and we'll talk
to you later on another episodeof Broken Branch.
Take care, bye-bye you.
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