March 3, 2025 • 51 mins
In this powerful episode of Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman, we dive deep into the hidden dangers of repetitive brain trauma and the groundbreaking treatments reshaping mental health recovery.
Bruce sits down with Sam Peterson, a retired EOD technician, mental health advocate, and founder of Mind Spa, to explore revolutionary approaches to PTSD and brain injury healing. From Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) and deep TMS to experiential ketamine therapy, Sam shares firsthand insights into the cutting-edge treatments transforming lives—especially for veterans struggling with PTSD, depression, and neuroinflammation.
💡 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✔️ How repetitive head trauma affects mental health and brain function
✔️ Why mainstream mental health treatments often fail veterans and athletes
✔️ The science behind TMS, deep TMS, and ketamine therapy for PTSD and depression
✔️ How Sam Peterson’s Mind Spa and the Invictus Project are breaking barriers in brain health treatment
✔️ Why integrating alternative therapies with lifestyle changes is key to recovery
🚀 Join the Movement for Better Mental Health!
🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube!
📢 Like, share, and subscribe to support mental health awareness and help us bring these critical conversations to more people.
Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman is sponsored by The Mac Parkman Foundation
Support The Mac Parkman Foundation by donating today!
https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=CR24MY2GDUCZL
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Repetitive Brain Trauma
02:35 Meet Dr. Pam Arnell: A Lifelong Commitment to Service
06:45 Transitioning to Focus on Veterans and First Responders
08:08 Understanding 22-0 and Its Mission
10:52 The Persistent Suicide Rate Among Veterans
15:39 Challenges with Traditional Therapy Models
21:07 Innovative Approaches: RTM and Emotional Management
27:09 The Effectiveness of 22-0's Protocols
33:30 Barriers to VA Recognition and Funding
37:54 How to Access 22-0's Services
Get the Head Smart App Today! Click the link below to download it now!
https://www.mpfact.com/headsmart-app/
Connect with Sam today!
LinkedIn: Sam Peterson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-peterson-mba/
Produced by Security Halt Media
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hey folks, welcome back to another episode of
Broken Brains with yours trulyBruce Parkman, sponsored by the
Mack Parkman Foundation, wherewe look at the issue of
repetitive brain trauma, rbtfrom repetitive head impacts
from contact sports orrepetitive blast exposure for
our military veterans, and whatthese impacts are doing to the
brains of our kids, athletes andveterans, and the resulting
(00:34):
preventable cause of mentalillness.
The largest one in this countrythat has our veterans dying by
suicide, suffering from mentalillness, being incarcerated.
Same thing with our kids andour veterans.
And this show we reach out tothe leading researchers,
scientists, parents, patients,advocates, journalists to talk
about these issues so that youare informed, as these issues
(00:56):
are not educated in this country, they're unknown in this
country, yet their impact isprofound.
So please stay tuned foranother exciting show, and with
us today is Sam Peterson.
Sam Peterson is an excitingguest.
Why?
Because I have partaken in manyof the modalities that he
professes to use and is asponsor of.
He's a passionate entrepreneurand mental health advocate, but,
(01:19):
more importantly, he's retiredEOD and I think that he's
already been through a lot ofthe challenges that I and many
special operation veterans havebeen through from you know,
repetitive blast exposure andjust the impacts of our military
job, but he's dedicated tomaking a difference in the lives
of veterans and firstresponders and I really want to
dig into and the Patriot PowerUp program again, where Sam and
(01:45):
his team has successfullytreated hundreds of individuals,
utilizing highly effectivemethods to address PTI,
depression, anxiety and PTSD.
And we're going to talk aboutthese because I'll guarantee
they're not covered by the VA orTRICARE insurance yet.
And these are the modalitiesthat are having significant
impacts and if there are some,that's great, but they're not
(02:06):
being recognized enough andthey're not mainstream and we've
got to fix this.
In addition to his work withMindSpar and Patriot Power Up,
he's founded the InvictusProject.
This nonprofit provides vitalfinancial assistance for
veterans seeking mental healthtreatment.
Why?
Because anything that workswith the brain nowadays is
primarily not covered byinsurance or VA.
So hats off to you.
And he's a former Army EODtechnician and, after facing his
(02:29):
own mental health challenges,he became committed to
developing programs that cantruly help those in search.
He believes in the power ofcommunity and support to create
lasting change and he isabsolutely dedicated to
improving the mental health ofour heroes and veterans.
Sam, what a great bio man.
This is awesome man.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Bruce, today.
It's an honor and I love yourshirt.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, dude.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Support that little brain.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Well, I mean every Fourth of July it's funny we
have this parade here on AnnaMaria Island.
It's seven miles long and it'sthe longest water gun fight in
the country.
So literally from start tofinish, we got pools, we got all
these squirt guns, we got allour kids on there and it's all
in the name of my son who losthis life to this tragic you know
this tragic.
(03:22):
You know you know tragic issueof repetitive bad impacts.
But we have a seven and a halfmile gun water fight so we make
new t-shirts every year.
So my sister, who's theexecutive director of our
foundation, made this.
But thanks for noticing man.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I mean, you know it's .
It's a great thing what you'redoing on this podcast, just
drawing more awareness to thenot only the the issues of
post-traumatic stress disorder,traumatic brain injuries,
depression, anxiety, all thosethings, but the fact that, like,
we can actually do somethingabout it, and that that's
something that gets lost a lotof times in the rhetoric that we
keep getting fed, especiallywhen it comes to brain injuries.
(03:59):
I can't tell you how many timesI've had patients come into our
clinic or into our program andthey've talked to a neurologist
and he's like well, yep, you'rescrewed.
Um, you're going to getdementia in about 10 years.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Um, uh, hug your kids and hug your, hug your kids and
get a life insurance policy,buddy, cause you're not going to
be around very long.
You don't even have a reserveparachute, you're just screwed
man, you know.
And why is?
And why is that?
I mean, dude, these, these, the, the the issue of repetitive,
repetitive head impacts,repetitive blast exposure, has
(04:32):
been diagnosed.
It's been studied so much, yetthe knowledge is not out there.
And beyond that, the knowledgemight be there, but the, the,
the knowledge that you can dosomething about it that can have
a positive impact and almostget these guys back to where
they were, is not there, man.
It's a tragedy.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, it is, and it's just the rhetoric is not true.
And this is partially becauseof the way that kind of
pharmaceutical science is isconducted.
It's always trying to isolate avariable, and you know so these
treatment protocols that are,they're not sorry.
Let me rephrase that when we'relooking at treatments that can
(05:14):
affect the brain, science rightnow is using this monoamine
approach.
We're testing one variable at atime, one variable at a time.
But here's the problem yourbrain is the most complex
organism that we know of on thisplanet.
It is its own pharmaceuticalcompany.
It is constantly reacting tostimuli and changing in real
time.
So it's not just that we can'ttake this monoimmune approach,
(05:38):
it's that a multimodal approachis required to heal this thing
and to get it back to the placethat it was at prior to the
injury.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Well, I mean, you know that.
I mean Farmer believes thatdrugs are a lifestyle.
Bro.
I talked to veterans.
I was at an ayahuasca retreatjust two weeks ago.
There were veterans there.
All of them had 15 to 17different pills prescribed by
the VA and then when they wentback and said I don't like this,
they're like, well, why don'twe just up it some more?
That was their automaticresponse is hey, you just need
(06:09):
more Zoloft or more whatever.
I mean, they got boxes and bagsof pills that they know they
don't want, they don't need, andthey're coming to these
modalities like we're gettingready to talk about, to find
their way home.
But pharma has is got betweenall this evidence-based crap and
and everything's got to be apill, everything be treated with
(06:31):
a pill in this world right now,and that is just not the case.
I mean, and you're, and you'reproven no, not at all.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I mean, at the end of the day, like you cannot
medicate your way out of atraumatic brain injury and
trying to take, and you alsocan't talk your way out of a
traumatic brain injury andtrying to take and you also
can't talk your way out of atraumatic brain injury.
I have thank you again, like andI have gone to, I've gone
toe-to-toe with, withpsychiatrists from yale,
researchers at the va, andeveryone is doing a really good
(06:59):
job of patting themselves on theback and not a really good job
of looking at the neurobiologyof the issue.
Because the underlying issue,especially when we're talking
about TBI, is this is a hypoxicbrain injury and furthermore, it
is an inflammatory issue in thebrain.
And until you address thatinflammatory issue in the brain,
(07:19):
you are wasting that patient'stime, and that is even worse.
The knock-on effect of that iseven worse, because that brain
is going through thisinflammatory cascade, this
what's called a secondarychemical injury from TBI, and
it's causing long-lasting damagethat eventually leads to
(07:40):
dementia.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And they're saying we want more time, like the VA
just started these trials theyjust reported it's going to be
10 to 15 years, they say, beforethey can prescribe the
psilocybin or MDA, which are allknown to impact the brain from
a neuroplasticity, neuronalgrowth perspective, and get that
going.
But you're absolutely right, wedon't have time and we know
that these modalities arehelping people every day.
(08:04):
I will guarantee you that oncewe start talking about MindSpot
and what you do, that themajority of your people that
come out of those treatmentsfeel better, that they have hope
, that they feel like they're ona positive road for the first
time in a long time in a longtime.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, I mean the, the average, uh, the average
symptom reduction one of ourprograms, if someone engages in
all of our therapeuticmodalities is 14 to 17 days.
So we very, very often seepeople who come in with a very
high acuity.
You know they're, they'reknocking on the door, suicide.
You know they're havingpost-concussive migraines, brain
fog, uh, short-term memory lossissues, controlling mood, super
severe and by the time we getto day 10, all of a sudden
(08:52):
they're like whoa, hey, can Ifeel this way all the time?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Wow, well, they don't even have.
When they showed up, theydidn't even think they could
even feel.
Halfway better again.
So let's talk about yourjourney.
Army EOD All right.
Halfway better again.
So let's talk about yourjourney.
Nate Army EOD All right.
So let's talk about your careera little bit and how you know
what was your experience thatdrove you into this space.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, honestly, the you know something that not a
lot of people talk about waslike when I got recruited into
EOD.
First of all, they didn't tellme how hard the school would be
the hardest academic school inthe Department of Defense and
they also didn't tell me howhigh the suicide rate is.
Army, or EOD as a whole, hasone of the highest suicide rates
(09:32):
of any job in the entiremilitary, and it's because of
our constant exposure totraumatic blast events.
And it's just like an NFLplayer with CTE You're just
getting that bam, bam bam.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It's those little guys.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It's not, it's not always the one that knocks you
out, puts you on your ass.
It's that constant wham, wham,wham.
And then sometimes you getthose bigger ones where you know
, you know, like one of, uh, oneof our, uh, our big shots, like
we were dealing with a bunch ofhomemade explosives in Kandahar
and I was probably like 55meters away from about 300
(10:06):
pounds of explosives and it wasjust, it was either that or
leave it there, and we had toget rid of it so that, uh, so
that someone's uh up armoredhumvee didn't get blown into
smithereens down the street.
So I was like, all right, cool,lay down and back it up I'll
tell you a quick story aboutwhen we were in Peru.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Once you know, you never want to take stuff back
from a mission, right?
So this commander of this,concern he wanted this tree gone
in the middle of his, his, hisquartel.
So our, our, our, our, charlieright, our, our explosion guy,
he packed everything that we had.
I need that, man, grenades, youknow's all our c4, everything,
(10:45):
man, it was under that tree, wedug, he had the soldiers dig, we
got it there.
Well, he never did anycalculations and when he, when
he launched that puppy, thatstuff not only went up, he blew
out every window in the militarybase.
All of our eardrums were alllike when shit was raining down
for like minutes.
Man, I mean he launched thatpuppy.
But that's what I wanted to say.
Like dude, we don't take nothinghome and when we find stuff
(11:07):
that can be used against us,it's his job as an EOD guy to
take care of that, get rid ofthat ordinance.
And they have absolutely one ofthe most dangerous jobs that we
have in the military Cause.
When they go up on a bomb theydon't know what condition is in.
If it's to go up, they can'ttell you.
You know, I mean, explain alittle bit about you, know what
you do as an eod tech man,because it's yes yeah, so sign
(11:29):
up for this it's so much funit's it's one of the best jobs
it's one of the best jobs in themilitary.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
It really is and honestly, like counter id was so
fun because it is.
It is spy versus spy, it's youagainst the bomb maker and it is
so cool to have someone who isjust actively trying to kill you
like and to roll up on a deviceto not only render it safe but
(11:55):
then, after you take, you are.
So our big thing is.
It's not just about blowingshit up, which I do love, I do
love it quite a bit.
It does, uh, it is.
It is about interdicting the,the train of the creation of an
explosive device that's used tohurt our brothers and sisters,
you know that are over therewith us, and to take evidence,
(12:17):
process that evidence, find outwho the hell it is, and then go
knock on that guy's door and,you know, give him the good news
, and that process is is one ofthe most fun and rewarding
things ever, because you'retaking you, you are taking a
very, very dangerous chess pieceoff the enemy's board and it is
so much fun uh, you're, youknow you just gotta get over the
(12:38):
whole dying thing, you knowyeah, we were in the intel side
as a contractor.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I actually put together the weapons
intelligence teams and launchedthese two teams of spec ops guys
and dogs and drones, but wewere using Intel and our only
focus, bro, was the bomb maker.
You can't replace them.
When those guys are gone, thenetwork collapses because those
are the smartest dudes and youguys are on the other side of
that fight.
So how many years you do EODand what happened when you got
(13:03):
back?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, so I was in it for about six and a half years,
was an EOD team leader, uh,deployed with conventional
forces and special forces doingall kinds of different
operations from you know doingum, doing uh interdiction
operations on like the Taliban'suh infrastructure.
So we, you know partner withthe dea, go in and blow up
heroin presses in the middle ofthe night.
That was super fun uh but uh,you know, I got back and you
(13:31):
know, and honestly, man, like,compared to some of the stuff
that the other guys that werearound me like I didn't nothing
bad happened to me compared towhat happened to them at all,
but that like hyper vigilance,um, and then just that constant
being on really took a toll.
(13:53):
Uh, when I got back itdeveloped a panic disorder, um,
had some you know bad personalshit happen at the same time and
it just it all added up and youknow it got so bad that I was
having a panic stack every day.
Those suck dude, no dude, yeahI mean it's fun dude, two, three
hours, literally.
Like one time I was.
I was walking through walmartin colorado springs and I just
(14:16):
bought a tv because I built ahouse, so bought a tv for the
new house, and this guy justlike gave me the stink eye for
some reason at Walmart and itlike like grab my gun, boom, had
to like rush, like rush home,close all the blinds and just
sit in my dark bedroom for likethree hours.
(14:37):
And that went on and on and onand on, for you know, going on
five, six months, I was finallylike all right, like 45 is
looking pretty tasty right now.
I don't want to do this anymore.
Um, and you know it was, it wasliterally my phone going off my
pocket that kept me from offingmyself.
And you know it was one of myfriends.
(14:58):
He invited me over to, uh, tohis place.
Um, it was.
It was.
This was on Christmas Eve 2014.
To his place this was onChristmas Eve 2014.
Invites me over to his place.
This was before I had everpartaken in any psychedelics or
got into this at all.
Really, I had ever stuck mytoes in mental health at all.
(15:19):
He goes hey, man, you're fuckedup.
And I can tell.
Take what's on that counter andhe takes out this little baggie
and pour some pure MDMA on thecounter.
You know, I was like man,everybody who does drugs is
putting holes in their brain.
Well, I was like, well, I'mabout to put a big hole in my
brain anyway.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, so might as well Poor guy yeah, might as
well.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And so I did.
I took it and it was the mosttransformative experience I've
probably ever had Certainly, youknow, the first of many.
But it was like someone took mysoul, just wrenched it out of
my body, just washed that fuckerin bleach and stuck it back in.
(16:03):
I got to feel joy for one ofthe first times in my life, I
realized, and it just shifted myperspective in such a radical
way that I was like okay, allright, I want to live now.
At least this feeling ispossible.
So I've been stuck in this deepdark hole.
I can can see the light now andnow I can start to walk towards
(16:24):
it.
Um, good for you and absolutelygame-changing.
I didn't really realize theimpact that it had until about
five months.
Five months later, six monthslater, um, one of my mentors uh,
I was in the motor pool withhim, just smoking and joking,
having a great time oh, soyou're still in the army yeah, I
(16:44):
was still in the army this timelisten bruce.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I like to take risks hey, you're talking to a guy
that was part of the cocaineexplosion in the 80s and seven
special forces group.
So yeah, I've been there.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Okay, oh yeah I did a train up with a seventh group
um I've got a I've got some, uhsome some insights yeah, back in
the 80s, before they inventedthe 10 panel drug test, yeah
well, they wouldn't watch it,that's for sure.
No, go ahead, yeah so um, soyeah, five, you know six months
(17:19):
later I'm in.
I'm in the motor pool talking toNeil having a good old time.
We're about to go to the fieldand I said bye to him.
On Friday, on Monday morning,memorial Day, we roll out to go
do a field problem and we get acall.
Neil had walked down to hisbackyard and blew his head off,
with his three-year-old son inthe house, and it just floored
(17:40):
me.
No, you would never know thathe was suffering.
You know we, we all know thoseguys we served with.
You know the senior, thosesenior ncos who are like crusty
but they're nice to everybody.
It's like they're like therobin williams of the of the
unit and and it was just likethat, it was just like someone
ripped my leg off, just the, thejerk of that.
(18:04):
That event.
It really floored me and itreally made me just look at the
whole system and go, you knowwhat Fuck this?
Like we can do better.
Like the cause I had beenthrough, you know, the army's,
the army's mental system, and itwas garbage.
It was just medication,medication, medication, talk
therapy, medication, medication.
And I was like I really feeland I didn't know anything at
(18:27):
the time, I had researched allthis I really felt then like
deep down, that if Neil had hadthe experience that I had had on
Christmas Eve, he would stillbe alive.
And it just became this drivingforce that, no matter what, I'm
going to do this for otherpeople, because we lose way too
(18:50):
many amazing individuals tosuicide and it is so, so
preventable.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
It is and that's what I think what you're doing right
now is absolutely, you know,key to this because you know, on
the advocacy side, that's whatour foundation does.
We're like look, we can.
This is the largest preventablecause of suicide in this
country repetitive brain trauma,sports and military.
And if we got to, we got to wehave to fight wars, there's no
doubt, and we can train better,better.
(19:18):
save it all for game day, andgame day Just let it happen.
When we come back and we'reharmed, we've got to get
treatments that work and for youknow, the reason our suicide
rate hasn't moved and billionsof dollars have been spent on
this problem is because theywill not get off the common
approach, which is drugs, likeyou just said, drugs and goddang
top therapy and I don't knowwhere the chain that we're
(19:42):
pushing hard for the change, butyou're actually delivering it,
man.
So that is so what?
So what got you from, you know,army guy, mda experience, now
entrepreneur, you know, into thepsychedelic field helping these
veterans?
How did you get there?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
that's a, that's an amazing transition dude, just
read a lot of pub med.
And as soon as I I started,dude, seriously, I was like you
know what I was like man.
At first I was like, okay, I'mgoing to go to medical school,
like I'm going to become adoctor, and you know, do all
this, I'm going to use the GIbill to pay for all this.
And then I realized, you know,second, the knowledge that I
(20:18):
need is not in the traditionalestablishment.
The only way that these doctorseven know about this stuff is
literally by reading PubMed.
I was like, cool, I can do that.
And so I started the Invictusproject, started this nonprofit
to start paying for guys to getmore effective treatments.
(20:40):
So found out about ketamine.
All right, cool, that's, that'sgreat.
But ketamine seems to have apretty.
You know, this is me thinkingat the time.
You know, ketamine, it's gotsome pretty transitory effects.
Like after you know, eight to10 weeks, people are starting to
get symptoms come back.
All right, that's cool.
What's the next thing?
Okay, hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
(21:02):
All right, this has a lot ofpromise.
But the more I read, the morewe found, the more I found that
there was again that transitoryeffect.
After about six months you getlike three steps forward and
then, you know, one step backbecause of the that knock on
inflammation in the brain.
So you know, I met, I met adoctor in Aspen and started
(21:25):
helping him develop anintranasal stem cell protocol
and you know, that's somethingthat we're still working on
today but like we've used it on,I've used it, we used it on my
dad and a bunch of otherveterans and saw pretty amazing
results.
And then that's what led in tocreating MindSpot, to create an
outpatient psychiatry clinicwhere we can bring all these
(21:47):
things in and create a protocolthat can actually heal and
rewire the brain in a prettyshort period of time.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So talk about this to our audience.
We say heal and rewire.
What specifically are youtalking about?
So I understand that you can dothis.
You can actually heal the brain, you and rewire what
specifically you talking about.
So you understand that you cando this.
You can actually heal the brain, you can rewire absolutely, but
it ain't with drugs and talktherapy.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So yeah, talk, talk to our audience about it.
Now the talk therapy is acomponent of this.
So everything that we do inmental health, aside from trauma
healing a traumatic braininjury like ptsd, depression,
anxiety is rewiring the brain.
Everybody just has differenttools.
I personally, I like to usepower tools.
Um, so let's just walk throughlike I'll walk through a little
(22:29):
bit of our protocol, cause I'llkind of answer this question
simultaneously.
So one of the first things we dostart with is ketamine infusion
therapy.
So one of the things thatketamine does is that it
downregulates inflammation inthe brain and it upregulates
neuroplasticity.
It upregulates brain-derivedneurotrophic factors, a hormone
that causes your brain cells tobranch out and create new
(22:49):
connections.
Now why are those two thingsimportant?
So there are two primary thingsthat PTSD, depression, anxiety
and traumatic brain injurieshave in common.
One, they affect neuralconnectivity, so they affect
your brain's ability to talk toitself.
(23:10):
And two, they cause a ton ofinflammation in the brain, and
that's one of the reasons thatinflammation piece and that
connectivity piece.
Those are two of the primaryreasons that people become
treatment resistant.
Because what we need tounderstand and this is really
where I think that themainstream has just completely
missed the boat is that thesethings are highly inflammatory
(23:34):
to the brain.
What happens to your brain whenit gets inflamed?
It shunts off blood flow.
So you know, the blood vesselsin your brain are very, very
small, like.
They're so small that like asingle red blood cell can pass
through at a time, and itdoesn't take a whole lot of
inflammation before, all of asudden, you're trying to suck a
golf ball through a garden hose.
Now, when you're sucking a golfball through a garden hose and
(23:56):
your cells can't get oxygenthat's being carried by that red
blood cell, they have to switchover from creating energy in a
very energy efficient manner.
It's called cellular respiration.
They switch over from cellularrespiration think like breathing
to anaerobic glycolysis.
This is how cancer cells makeenergy.
It's a fermentation processthat puts off a lot of waste
that waste is.
(24:17):
Then it creates a knock-oninflammatory effect.
So you can see over time youknow we're talking about people
who are suffering from this for10, 20 years Over time that
inflammation builds up, shuntsoff blood flow and just creates
this downward spiral.
And we see that.
We see the effects of that inour populations.
So the entirety of the protocol, once we really like figured
(24:41):
out the mechanism.
The entirety of everything wedo is centered around reducing
inflammation and thenupregulating the brain's ability
to rewire itself and create newconnections.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
That makes absolute sense because we know that.
You know number one.
You know, especially if you'redealing with men and women that
are still in the job thatneuroinflammation is going to
continue because the brain isgoing to continue to get jolted,
it's going to continue to getinjured and it's going to
release you know more of these.
You know you got all kinds ofyou know neurotransmitters.
You've got you know chemicalcascades, you've got all these
(25:13):
things that the brain releasesto protect itself, that in turn,
over time, start to becometoxic to the brain in addition
to what you just explained, andstart degrading the actual brain
structures demyelination,dysmyelination, synaptic death.
You know and this damage is andI want to you know, talk about
this a little bit too is thatneuroinflammation creates damage
(25:36):
and that damage is absolutelyknown through research and
science to be associated withmental illness.
Yet nobody in this country isbeing trained from a psychiatric
or medical perspective toassociate or diagnose mental
illness in association with RBEor TBI or RHI.
And that is the disconnect thatwe're trying to fix here is to
(25:57):
take the knowledge that you justexplained and start giving this
out to the professional medicalcommunity when you see a mental
illness, if you don't assessfor TBI, rha or RBE, then you're
just doing nothing for thatkid's brain or that adult's
brain because you're just givingthem medicine, you're giving
them drugs and it's not helpingthem at all.
So that's, that's, uh.
And so you, you, you figuredall this out.
(26:19):
You got the, so you haveketamine.
What's your protocol?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, so yeah, so sorry, I went on a little
diatribe there aboutneuroinflammation.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I love those rabbit holes, bro man, it's all good.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's an important rabbit hole.
So yeah, just you know.
Quick synopsisNeuroinflammation is a huge
problem.
You just touched on microglialpriming that's something I talk
to Dr Mark Gordon a lot aboutand just these knock-on issues
that are really it's a problemwith energy creation.
(26:52):
So how we combat that?
So we start with this ketamineinfusion therapy that
down-regulates inflammation,up-regulates brain-derived
neurotropic factors, so itallows us to rewire the brain
more effectively.
Then, coming into hyperbaricoxygen therapy, so putting
someone down at about 1.5atmospheres absolute for 40 to
(27:14):
60 treatments.
That again it forcesinflammation down in the brain.
It increases your cells abilityto create energy because you're
providing more oxygen.
The the last piece in cellularrespiration, the last ingredient
, is oxygen.
Without it, again we have toswitch over to that anaerobic
glycolysis to make energy.
Also, healing like actualcellular healing is an
(27:36):
incredibly energy intensiveprocess and that's why the hBOT
is so important.
But the HBOT alone won't do it.
We have to add in these otherthings to help supercharge this
process.
The other piece transcranialmagnetic stimulation.
For anybody not familiar withTMS, tms is an MRI coil that's
(27:58):
placed on the head.
We can place it in a number ofdifferent positions but for like
the treatment of depression.
It's placed over thedorsolateral prefrontal cortex.
That magnetic, that MRI coilcreates a magnetic field under
the surface of the scalp andthat magnetic field basically
tricks your neurons into wiringmore cohesively in a network
(28:19):
where we are treating.
So why is that important?
If we were to look at the brainof, let's say, someone who's
suffering from post-traumaticstress disorder, what you would
see if you could do across-section just look at how
it's firing you would see anunderactive prefrontal cortex,
so an underactive executivefunctioning center, and an
(28:39):
overactive amygdala, so thatamygdala is hijacking your lived
experience all the time,causing all of the effects that
we see from PTSD.
So with that coil we're treatingthese areas and upregulating
the density of neurons in anarea.
Imagine your prefrontal cortexand your amygdala are at a
(29:00):
concert.
They're like at Coachella andthey've got different.
They're at different stages.
If you have post-traumaticstress disorder, the stage of
your prefrontal cortex is justsitting there with a little
megaphone while the amygdalagets a whole sound system.
So what we're doing isreinforcing the megaphone and
turning it into like a fullstage setup in the prefrontal
cortex so it can shout down theamygdala and tell it to shut the
(29:22):
hell up, cause that's what ourexecutive functioning centers do
in the brain.
Among other things, they tellthe rest of our brain to shut
the hell up.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Okay, and that makes sense, because we do know that,
again, mental illness is heavilyassociated with a damaged
prefrontal cortex and along withpsychological, behavioral and
cognitive disorders, whichshould be used in terms of
diagnosing people to get them toyou so they can get fixed.
So I mean yeah, and then allright.
So, and now I noticed on yourwebsite you have what's called
(29:51):
deep transcranial magneticsimulation.
Let me ask you a quick questionbefore you go there.
Tms has been available inalmost every doctor shop in
Europe for like the last, Idon't know, 20 years.
You can just get it everywherehere in America.
Every time somebody comes upwith a cool TMS thing, some rich
group of investors fromsomewhere comes down and buys
these puppies and puts them outof business, right?
(30:13):
So like TMS, even though it'slike so widely accepted in
Europe, it's hardly availablehere, and I think it's because
it treats.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
That's not true, bruce.
That's not true Bruce.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I'm not finding it out.
I'm not finding it in too manycenters here in America.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
It is in every single major city.
It is FDA approved for thetreatment of depression.
So you can.
And that's, I think, wherethere's a little bit of
confusion.
Like you, you do have to kindof play the game with TMS, uh,
cause it's approved for majordepressive disorder, but the
insurance companies want you tofail between two to three
(30:49):
antidepressant meds before youcan access TMS.
Now there's a bunch ofprotocols that TMS is getting
studied, so they just they justincreased the, the age.
The age gaps are now like kidsdown to 15 years old can get TMS
.
There are ongoing studies withPTSD.
(31:10):
There's ongoing studies withregional pain syndrome.
Like this technology is insane,uh, what we can do with it.
It's just taking some time tocatch up.
And there are also, you know,newer technologies like embp or
mert uh, that are eeg guided tms.
So instead of like repetitivetms hitting someone with like 10
(31:32):
hertz repetitively fordepression, uh, we're able to
take an EEG of the brain andcreate a personalized pulse
protocol for each individual'sbrain.
So that's what's coming downthe pipe, it, it?
It may seem like it's a littlebit out of reach, but as far as
like accessibility, I guaranteeif I put in your zip code, I
could find at least twopsychiatric offices that uh uh
(31:55):
provide tms within 10 miles.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
That's my point, the only where, the only place you
find tms right now we're in myexperience I've been doing this
a little while it's in likebrain health centers like yours.
I mean it's available, don'tworry, but you got to go look
for it.
We're in europe.
It's like in every doctor'soffice like you can.
Okay, it's like it's.
It's like you could go in anydoctor's office Like you can.
It's like it's.
It's like you can go in anydoctor's office or a medical
building and there's TMS.
(32:18):
And and and my point is givingthe efficacy and the known value
of the protocol, it should bemore widely available and, to
your point, more widely coveredby insurance, because TMS you
still, you still got to play thegame where it's not accepted
and that's.
You know that's creating a lotof pain for our veterans that
are, you know, paying out ofpocket and doing all that kind
(32:39):
of crazy stuff.
But you know to hear yourpassion about that protocol, I
mean, obviously, I mean it'sbeen effective.
But what's the differencebetween TMS and deep TMS?
Is it a different machine?
Speaker 2 (32:51):
or something like that.
Yeah, so it's a different coil.
There's only one company thatdoes deep TMS, that's Brainsway.
They have an H coil.
Basically, the coil is designedinstead of in a figure of eight
, which has a limited amount ofdepth that it can create the
depth of that magnetic field.
(33:12):
The H coil is overlappedpped,so it creates a deeper, uh, a
deeper coil like basically inlayman's terms uh, you get more
cubic, uh, cubic millimeters ofstimulation, so you get more
neurons that are in thestimulation box.
We, we stimulate a broader areaand that allows for um faster
(33:34):
results.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Okay.
So let's talk about longevityof treatment.
Okay, now we know, if you go tothe VA, you know they just like
you said right, you're done.
Rest of your life.
Here's a bag of drugs here, gotalk to this person and that's
your life.
That's it, you're done right?
So with patients that have cometo you right, suicidal drug,
(33:55):
addicted, whatever what kind ofsuccess rates are you having?
Or is there a certain number oftreatments or sessions, months,
where you think they're nothealed but they're able to go on
with their life much betterthan they were before?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, so you know, the best data we have is out of
our Patriot Power Up program,which is a part of VA Community
Care, by the way.
So we're the only program thatis within the VA Community Care
network that provides TMS,ketamine and hyperbaric and is
fully covered.
Okay, so let's go back to that.
So that's fully covered.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
It's ketamine and hyperbaric and is fully covered.
Okay, so let's go back to that.
So that's fully covered.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
It's fully covered.
It's a part of the VA CommunityCare Network.
It's an inpatient program up inCoeur d'Alene, Idaho.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Okay, so is there any chance that that can be
expanded, or is there anystudies going on to expand that
provision, because I mean thatshould be in all 50 states.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Oh dude, it should be in all 50 states.
I mean I'm looking to get somemeetings with Doug Collins.
As soon as that confirmationcomes through, I will help you
all.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I can, man.
I mean that is amazing thatyou've got some VA coverage
going on, because that'sprecedence, bro, and that's what
we need for the rest of thecommunity.
But keep going, man.
My back Sorry.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, no, no, you're good.
But what we're seeing as far aslongevity goes is, if you
combine these treatments andcombine them with, you know,
proper nutrition, gettingsomeone you know back in the gym
, making sure that they're, theyare instantiating healthy
habits.
You put that in with culturallycompetent talk therapy, that
really provides the roadmap forall this.
(35:40):
And we're seeing, a year out,none of these guys are
qualifying for the diagnosisanymore.
They go from acute boom down todamn near zero and they stay
that way.
And that's that just speaks toone, the power of using these
treatments in conjunction withone another, but also to the
(36:00):
fact that in the program, like,we're teaching these guys
healthy habits, and that'sreally really important for
everyone to understand.
You know, these treatments areawesome, they are super
effective, especially when usedin conjunction, but if you don't
create healthy life habits, youare going to end up in the same
hole that you started in.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Integration.
Yep, that's a great point.
What about now?
You mentioned Mark Gordon'sname, right?
I just got off the phone withhim about an hour ago, Hello.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Mark.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, mark's got.
You know his supplementationprogram is absolutely stellar
and we do believe that I mean heshould be actually the first
step before we start.
You know, balance that brainfirst, so these modalities would
be more efficient, you know,and nodding your head, so you
know well how do you interactwith other, not only like
programs, mark Gordon.
(36:55):
But what about what's yourfeeling on other psychedelic
programs?
You know ayahuasca, ibogaine,psychedelics.
You know you're obviouslyalready doing ketamine, which is
really it's more of a chemical,but you're obviously in the
psychedelic class it'sexperience.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Ketamine is actually naturally occurring.
They just found a bacteriumthat makes it.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
So ah, really.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Just check it out.
I'm all about that.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I mean that puts it right in the psychedelic camp.
When I talk to it, does it does?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
I'm going to start with Mark's protocol.
Like, first, I love Mark.
He's one of the one of thepeople in the world that just
makes me feel like I'm an idiotwhenever I talk to him, because
he's so damn smart.
He is super smart.
Yeah, his protocol is awesomeand is a great way to rebalance
the brain and downregulateinflammation.
(37:45):
I would love to put it at thefront end of our protocol
because I do agree, rebalancingthe brain's hormone production
is the first step in healing andthat's a huge, a huge deal.
Um.
So, love Mark, love what hedoes.
I'm always looking to integrate, um his best practices in with
(38:05):
what we do as well.
Uh, they, they are like thisyou know, there's there's no
reason in my mind to to separatethe two.
They need to be brought closertogether as part of it, an
overarching protocol.
Because, uh, last time I talkedto him, uh, he was talking
about about 77 percent um 77success rate and I was like,
cool, where's that last 33?
Speaker 1 (38:27):
let's go right even at 77, man, that's a lot better
than what we're seeing from mostanything else.
Yeah, that the VA willprescribe.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Sorry, oh yeah.
I mean just the efficacy ofSSRIs on their very, very best
day.
For your first SSRI is 33%.
As soon as you knock down tothe second SSRI, that, uh, that
number goes down to about 25%.
By the time you get to four orthree, 16,.
(38:59):
By the time you're at yourfourth antidepressant it's about
6% chance of having anyclinical effect.
That was the star D study,largest study on antidepressants
ever done, and it turns out nowthat they've looked back at it
they padded those numbers, sothey're lower than that, um,
lower than that.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, and that's the.
That's the recommended approachby rba, so that's that's.
Yeah, right there that's gonnachange.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Oh, it's so.
So does like just take thoseclinical practice the va
clinical practice guidelines forthe treatment of depression,
anxiety and ptsd, and we justburn those they're.
They're not worth the paperthey're written on they all.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Given our suicide rate, it's not.
Now for your program what kindof success rate do you have?
And just from a positiveexperience perspective, like you
know who's coming out what areyou seeing with the veterans and
the other patients that you'reseeing in your spa right now?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, I mean we're seeing upwards of 90% success.
You know it's hard to it's hardto quantify super well, we're
not you know we're, we're in the, in the business of providing
this care.
We're not doing the level, thelevel of rigor of clinical
research.
Um, that you would see, uh, youknow, in like a double blind,
(40:09):
placebo, controlled study, and Ido need to say that out front
because there there is a lot ofvariance.
People do have to engage withthe process.
The more you engage with theprocess, you engage with more of
the treatment protocol, theresults are better.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Well, that's my point is that, even though there's no
double-blind studies on thisstuff, there's two issues here.
Number one we're losing 22veterans a day to suicide
Probably more when you look atother reasons to die alcoholism,
whatever, right.
Number two you know you don'tneed double blind studies here
because these things aren'tgoing to kill you.
(40:42):
All right Now.
It's not like you built.
You built a new chemotherapymedicine or a new drug or
whatever that needs to bestudied for its impact on the
body.
You're not going to die fromketamine.
You take too much or you justgo to sleep.
It's an anesthesia, right,you're not going to.
You can't overdose on tms in amedical clinic.
I mean, you can probably wearthe hat for 24 days and and
probably hurt yourself andyou're not going to die from
(41:03):
talk therapy.
You're going to get bored, allright.
So you're talking about threemodalities that you're not going
to talk about, with a 90 atleast rate of positive
improvement for veterans lifewho are dying at 22 a day.
I don't give a shit about noblind stuff.
Okay, I'm saying that whatyou're doing right now is
helping veterans.
That's evidence.
If you take those 90 out of ahundred guys they say, hey, this
(41:26):
should help me and everything Igot from the VA or Tricare
didn't.
Okay, and I am a better person,I am off drugs and my, my wife,
loves me and I'm talking to mykids.
That's evidence, okay.
And we are at a point right nowwhere we have to say enough on
veterans' mental illness,whether it's caused by RBE or
the psychological trauma of war.
(41:47):
We're done.
We're done.
And these are just roadblocksfor and you can go down your
conspiracy rat hole about, well,big Pharma doesn't want this
and the FDA is part of BigPharma.
And you can go down yourconspiracy rat hole about, well,
big farmer doesn't want thisand the FDA is part of big
farmer and the VA's sold the bigfarmer.
I mean, all I know is my kidcalls me up from Fort Bragg and
they're giving out benzos andsleeping aids to kids, and
there's only two things that youcan die from when you withdraw
(42:08):
alcohol and benzo.
Why the hell are we givingbenzos out at?
You know, at Fort Bragg?
And he's just heard it from hisguys and it's like this is
absolutely insane.
And so I'm talking to a youngman who's been through hell,
turned his life around, isgiving back to others and yet
the protocols that not only thathelped him, but it's helping
others can't get, we can't getthis level of coverage that it
(42:31):
should happen.
So where are you at right now?
Are you?
Have you approached the va?
Do you super bill, do you?
Uh, what are you doing, um?
Or veterans, just coming toyour amazing foundation to get
coverage for the cost?
Speaker 2 (42:43):
so actually like it, it's been much less the
foundation and much more um.
Just, we've created some accesspoints, um, so we have a
tricare program.
Um, I am still waiting to see,because tricare switched over um
from health net to tri west.
Oh yeah, so they, theirreimbursement for tms is very
(43:05):
high, uh, and it's, it's highenough and they will approve
enough sessions that I canafford to give the other stuff
away for free.
So nice, um, yeah, as long asthe reimbursement rates stay the
same, and we should find outthat in the next couple of weeks
.
So we our program, you know,last year was super successful.
Anybody who gets approved fortranscranial magnetic
(43:29):
stimulation through TRICARE,we'll give them the HBOT and the
ketamine for free, becausewe're making enough to cover it.
I, I care about results, um,you know, as long as we're
keeping the lights on uh and andmaking enough to be sustainable
.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
That's, that's what matters to me do you have a hard
or soft show?
Hbot?
Sorry to interrupt uh, right.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
So right now we got a couple of of soft ones, but I'm
in the process of getting ahard chamber that goes up to 2.0
.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I've got a friend to talk to.
He can probably get you adiscount.
He's in the advocacy space.
I'll put you in touch, oh yeah,please do you know.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Hey, I love it.
Hey, I'm an entrepreneur, Ilove a good discount.
No dude, bootstrapping's toughman an entrepreneur, I love a
good discount.
Oh, dude, bootstrapping stuffman, I've done it.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I'll tell you what, bruce, I'll never do it again.
No, it's.
It's hard, man, when you giveso much to help others.
Um well, okay, so tms, you getcoverage on.
That's great yeah, tms.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
And then, yeah, we, like I said, we give the other
stuff away.
Um, you know it's we're we'reworking on a way to bill
insurance for ketamine.
Um, I've got that.
That conversation is happeningtomorrow, so yeah, yeah.
It's.
We'll talk about that offline,but yeah, man, it's really just
my whole focus in this space isaccess to care, access to more
(44:51):
effective care.
I should say like because we dohave the solutions for this
stuff.
This is like it's not that hardLike.
This is cellular biology, it'snot rocket science, If you treat
the underlying cause of theseinjuries.
People get better, and they getbetter really, really fast and
they stay better.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
I mean that should be the end of the show, right
there, right, I mean, becausethat is the truth and we keep
dealing with this.
We talk to people like yourselfall the time that are producing
these modalities that aregetting these veterans back, and
we have, you know, so many ofthem are just stuck and they're
spiraling because they don'tknow, they have no hope.
They're either told hey, you,you're just gonna die with this.
Nfl players same boat, right.
(45:34):
So nfl players do not want totalk about this, they just think
they're gonna die.
They don't know you can behealed, you can be improved and
you can get back.
And, and it's an amazingservice that you're doing, sam I
, I can't thank you enough, man.
I mean, oh thanks, bruce, thisis awesome.
And my daughter lives in denver, so I got another one in
colorado springs.
I retired on 10th there.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
So I will definitely.
I supported 10th group.
I supported 10th group, youknow, out of Fort Carson.
So I was at 71st, like rightbehind you guys.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Okay yeah, I was the B210 Sergeant Major back in like
99 to 2000.
Way, way back before you wereborn.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Yeah, back before my time.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
No doubt, dude, but no man, I cannot thank you for
what you're doing, man.
So tell us how people find you.
How do they find Sam InvictusMedSpa?
I mean, how do they get a holdof you and then find the
resources they need to educatethemselves and come see you?
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, honestly, linkedin is the best place to
find me.
Sam j peterson um, it's sam jpeterson mba.
On linkedin, um, and thenmindspot denvercom um, that's,
that's my clinic here in denver.
Uh, if you're interested in thepatriot power up program,
wwwpatriotpowerupcom and allthese websites have have contact
forms, uh, that go to eithermyself or one of our teammates.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
So if you reach out, we'll take care of you At least
point you in the right directionand personally, if it wasn't
for Ketamine, I don't think Icould have found my way back,
because that and still ateganglion blocks are my first
things.
I tried trying to get out of myhole back in the day.
So you're definitely on tosomething, sam and um.
I definitely.
(47:19):
We definitely want to doeverything we can to support um
and so definitely we're in touch.
Now you know we've got aconference uh on on repetitive
brain trauma coming up inSeptember.
Feel free to ask if you want topresent.
I'm doing a town hall forveterans, that we're doing
monthly town halls on veteransfor doing two things educate
them on rbe and then educatethem how to deal with da and get
(47:40):
the coverage uh and disabilitythat they deserve.
Uh.
One quick question on billingcodes um for tms, are you what?
What billing codes?
Are you going under the tbibilling codes, the rb, the new
rbe billing codes or uh, what uhfor diagnosis?
Speaker 2 (47:55):
uh, so for for tms, like we use, we use the cpt
codes for major depressivedisorder to bill.
Okay, um, that's that's kind ofour gateway into into treating
uh the nice thing I mean not thenice thing, but uh, the
fortunate thing is that withtraumatic brain injuries, uh,
the most common comorbidity isdepression.
(48:17):
So that's that's our primary,our primary way into the system.
Good for you.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
All right, and just so you know, I'm sure you notice
that I think it was the CDCjust labeled TBIs as a chronic
ailment, so that should help usas well.
That just came out hererecently.
So you know, but, man, my hat'soff to you for fighting this
space, bro.
I mean we need so many more SamPetersons out there.
A remarkable journey.
I mean just listening to youtalk about brain health.
(48:43):
I mean you've educated yourself.
I mean to the point where it'samazing.
It's amazing to hear you talk,and I just love seeing veterans
not only succeed but give back.
And you're doing both, man.
So my hat's off to you.
We're going to have you back onthe show.
When I'm in Denver, I'mdefinitely calling you up for a
craft beer or something.
Man, I'll find you.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Absolutely, man.
Come by the clinic we're downin the Denver Tech Center.
I always do.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
I'm always ready for another ketamine treatment.
Man.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
I'll come in with my checkbook, we'll take care of it
and I'll look forward toraising money for you too.
Absolutely, man, well, we'll,uh, we're.
We are rolling out and this isthe first time we're talking
about this publicly um, we arerolling out a new experiential
uh ketamine service.
So we're going to be using uhvibroacoustics in conjunction
with ketamine so we have a soundtable, uh, where we can curate
the ketamine experience and helpyou get farther with it and
create that really, reallymeaningful experience.
Another thing that we do withour ketamine experience is that
(49:42):
nobody else does.
I haven't seen anybody do thisyet.
So when someone comes out ofthat disassociative state, we
capture kind of what thatexperience was like just from
their words, capture kind ofwhat that experience was like
just from their words, and thenwe put that into an AI art
generator and then createcustomized AI art to commemorate
that experience, thatexperience for them.
We print it out and give it tothem so they have something.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
That is crazy man.
Again, you know, leading fromthe front man you're doing,
you're doing a great job, sam.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Can't thank you enough.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
God bless you and your journey and thank you so
much for what you're doing forour veterans.
I really can't thank you enough.
This has been an amazing show.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, thanks, bruce, appreciateyou man.
All right, and for everybody outthere man, again, another
amazing show.
Stay tuned, don't forget, wehave the HeadSmart app on Google
and Apple to help youunderstand the issue of
(50:33):
subcussive trauma, for youparents that don't know what it
is, and to better monitor yourkid when you think they have a
concussion, because you actuallyknow and they don't.
Or the book that we have forfree Youth Contact Spokes and
Broken Brains.
Go to our website, download it.
We'll be having a town hall forveterans and we'll be
announcing our dates this weekfor the second annual conference
, international conference onrepetitive brain trauma.
(50:54):
These things have neverhappened in the world.
We had the last one last year.
We're going to really pump itup in Tampa.
Thank you so much for listening.
We're looking forward to seeingyou again on another episode of
Broken Brains with BruceParkman, sponsored by the Mac
Parkman Foundation.
Really appreciate you.
God bless you all.
Thank you you.
Hey folks, welcome back to another episode of
Broken Brains with yours trulyBruce Parkman, sponsored by the
Mack Parkman Foundation, wherewe look at the issue of
repetitive brain trauma, rbtfrom repetitive head impacts
from contact sports orrepetitive blast exposure for
our military veterans, and whatthese impacts are doing to the
brains of our kids, athletes andveterans, and the resulting
(00:34):
preventable cause of mentalillness.
The largest one in this countrythat has our veterans dying by
suicide, suffering from mentalillness, being incarcerated.
Same thing with our kids andour veterans.
And this show we reach out tothe leading researchers,
scientists, parents, patients,advocates, journalists to talk
about these issues so that youare informed, as these issues
(00:56):
are not educated in this country, they're unknown in this
country, yet their impact isprofound.
So please stay tuned foranother exciting show, and with
us today is Sam Peterson.
Sam Peterson is an excitingguest.
Why?
Because I have partaken in manyof the modalities that he
professes to use and is asponsor of.
He's a passionate entrepreneurand mental health advocate, but,
(01:19):
more importantly, he's retiredEOD and I think that he's
already been through a lot ofthe challenges that I and many
special operation veterans havebeen through from you know,
repetitive blast exposure andjust the impacts of our military
job, but he's dedicated tomaking a difference in the lives
of veterans and firstresponders and I really want to
dig into and the Patriot PowerUp program again, where Sam and
(01:45):
his team has successfullytreated hundreds of individuals,
utilizing highly effectivemethods to address PTI,
depression, anxiety and PTSD.
And we're going to talk aboutthese because I'll guarantee
they're not covered by the VA orTRICARE insurance yet.
And these are the modalitiesthat are having significant
impacts and if there are some,that's great, but they're not
(02:06):
being recognized enough andthey're not mainstream and we've
got to fix this.
In addition to his work withMindSpar and Patriot Power Up,
he's founded the InvictusProject.
This nonprofit provides vitalfinancial assistance for
veterans seeking mental healthtreatment.
Why?
Because anything that workswith the brain nowadays is
primarily not covered byinsurance or VA.
So hats off to you.
And he's a former Army EODtechnician and, after facing his
(02:29):
own mental health challenges,he became committed to
developing programs that cantruly help those in search.
He believes in the power ofcommunity and support to create
lasting change and he isabsolutely dedicated to
improving the mental health ofour heroes and veterans.
Sam, what a great bio man.
This is awesome man.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Bruce, today.
It's an honor and I love yourshirt.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, dude.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Support that little brain.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Well, I mean every Fourth of July it's funny we
have this parade here on AnnaMaria Island.
It's seven miles long and it'sthe longest water gun fight in
the country.
So literally from start tofinish, we got pools, we got all
these squirt guns, we got allour kids on there and it's all
in the name of my son who losthis life to this tragic you know
this tragic.
(03:22):
You know you know tragic issueof repetitive bad impacts.
But we have a seven and a halfmile gun water fight so we make
new t-shirts every year.
So my sister, who's theexecutive director of our
foundation, made this.
But thanks for noticing man.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I mean, you know it's .
It's a great thing what you'redoing on this podcast, just
drawing more awareness to thenot only the the issues of
post-traumatic stress disorder,traumatic brain injuries,
depression, anxiety, all thosethings, but the fact that, like,
we can actually do somethingabout it, and that that's
something that gets lost a lotof times in the rhetoric that we
keep getting fed, especiallywhen it comes to brain injuries.
(03:59):
I can't tell you how many timesI've had patients come into our
clinic or into our program andthey've talked to a neurologist
and he's like well, yep, you'rescrewed.
Um, you're going to getdementia in about 10 years.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Um, uh, hug your kids and hug your, hug your kids and
get a life insurance policy,buddy, cause you're not going to
be around very long.
You don't even have a reserveparachute, you're just screwed
man, you know.
And why is?
And why is that?
I mean, dude, these, these, the, the the issue of repetitive,
repetitive head impacts,repetitive blast exposure, has
(04:32):
been diagnosed.
It's been studied so much, yetthe knowledge is not out there.
And beyond that, the knowledgemight be there, but the, the,
the knowledge that you can dosomething about it that can have
a positive impact and almostget these guys back to where
they were, is not there, man.
It's a tragedy.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, it is, and it's just the rhetoric is not true.
And this is partially becauseof the way that kind of
pharmaceutical science is isconducted.
It's always trying to isolate avariable, and you know so these
treatment protocols that are,they're not sorry.
Let me rephrase that when we'relooking at treatments that can
(05:14):
affect the brain, science rightnow is using this monoamine
approach.
We're testing one variable at atime, one variable at a time.
But here's the problem yourbrain is the most complex
organism that we know of on thisplanet.
It is its own pharmaceuticalcompany.
It is constantly reacting tostimuli and changing in real
time.
So it's not just that we can'ttake this monoimmune approach,
(05:38):
it's that a multimodal approachis required to heal this thing
and to get it back to the placethat it was at prior to the
injury.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Well, I mean, you know that.
I mean Farmer believes thatdrugs are a lifestyle.
Bro.
I talked to veterans.
I was at an ayahuasca retreatjust two weeks ago.
There were veterans there.
All of them had 15 to 17different pills prescribed by
the VA and then when they wentback and said I don't like this,
they're like, well, why don'twe just up it some more?
That was their automaticresponse is hey, you just need
(06:09):
more Zoloft or more whatever.
I mean, they got boxes and bagsof pills that they know they
don't want, they don't need, andthey're coming to these
modalities like we're gettingready to talk about, to find
their way home.
But pharma has is got betweenall this evidence-based crap and
and everything's got to be apill, everything be treated with
(06:31):
a pill in this world right now,and that is just not the case.
I mean, and you're, and you'reproven no, not at all.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I mean, at the end of the day, like you cannot
medicate your way out of atraumatic brain injury and
trying to take, and you alsocan't talk your way out of a
traumatic brain injury andtrying to take and you also
can't talk your way out of atraumatic brain injury.
I have thank you again, like andI have gone to, I've gone
toe-to-toe with, withpsychiatrists from yale,
researchers at the va, andeveryone is doing a really good
(06:59):
job of patting themselves on theback and not a really good job
of looking at the neurobiologyof the issue.
Because the underlying issue,especially when we're talking
about TBI, is this is a hypoxicbrain injury and furthermore, it
is an inflammatory issue in thebrain.
And until you address thatinflammatory issue in the brain,
(07:19):
you are wasting that patient'stime, and that is even worse.
The knock-on effect of that iseven worse, because that brain
is going through thisinflammatory cascade, this
what's called a secondarychemical injury from TBI, and
it's causing long-lasting damagethat eventually leads to
(07:40):
dementia.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And they're saying we want more time, like the VA
just started these trials theyjust reported it's going to be
10 to 15 years, they say, beforethey can prescribe the
psilocybin or MDA, which are allknown to impact the brain from
a neuroplasticity, neuronalgrowth perspective, and get that
going.
But you're absolutely right, wedon't have time and we know
that these modalities arehelping people every day.
(08:04):
I will guarantee you that oncewe start talking about MindSpot
and what you do, that themajority of your people that
come out of those treatmentsfeel better, that they have hope
, that they feel like they're ona positive road for the first
time in a long time in a longtime.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, I mean the, the average, uh, the average
symptom reduction one of ourprograms, if someone engages in
all of our therapeuticmodalities is 14 to 17 days.
So we very, very often seepeople who come in with a very
high acuity.
You know they're, they'reknocking on the door, suicide.
You know they're havingpost-concussive migraines, brain
fog, uh, short-term memory lossissues, controlling mood, super
severe and by the time we getto day 10, all of a sudden
(08:52):
they're like whoa, hey, can Ifeel this way all the time?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Wow, well, they don't even have.
When they showed up, theydidn't even think they could
even feel.
Halfway better again.
So let's talk about yourjourney.
Army EOD All right.
Halfway better again.
So let's talk about yourjourney.
Nate Army EOD All right.
So let's talk about your careera little bit and how you know
what was your experience thatdrove you into this space.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, honestly, the you know something that not a
lot of people talk about waslike when I got recruited into
EOD.
First of all, they didn't tellme how hard the school would be
the hardest academic school inthe Department of Defense and
they also didn't tell me howhigh the suicide rate is.
Army, or EOD as a whole, hasone of the highest suicide rates
(09:32):
of any job in the entiremilitary, and it's because of
our constant exposure totraumatic blast events.
And it's just like an NFLplayer with CTE You're just
getting that bam, bam bam.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It's those little guys.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It's not, it's not always the one that knocks you
out, puts you on your ass.
It's that constant wham, wham,wham.
And then sometimes you getthose bigger ones where you know
, you know, like one of, uh, oneof our, uh, our big shots, like
we were dealing with a bunch ofhomemade explosives in Kandahar
and I was probably like 55meters away from about 300
(10:06):
pounds of explosives and it wasjust, it was either that or
leave it there, and we had toget rid of it so that, uh, so
that someone's uh up armoredhumvee didn't get blown into
smithereens down the street.
So I was like, all right, cool,lay down and back it up I'll
tell you a quick story aboutwhen we were in Peru.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Once you know, you never want to take stuff back
from a mission, right?
So this commander of this,concern he wanted this tree gone
in the middle of his, his, hisquartel.
So our, our, our, our, charlieright, our, our explosion guy,
he packed everything that we had.
I need that, man, grenades, youknow's all our c4, everything,
(10:45):
man, it was under that tree, wedug, he had the soldiers dig, we
got it there.
Well, he never did anycalculations and when he, when
he launched that puppy, thatstuff not only went up, he blew
out every window in the militarybase.
All of our eardrums were alllike when shit was raining down
for like minutes.
Man, I mean he launched thatpuppy.
But that's what I wanted to say.
Like dude, we don't take nothinghome and when we find stuff
(11:07):
that can be used against us,it's his job as an EOD guy to
take care of that, get rid ofthat ordinance.
And they have absolutely one ofthe most dangerous jobs that we
have in the military Cause.
When they go up on a bomb theydon't know what condition is in.
If it's to go up, they can'ttell you.
You know, I mean, explain alittle bit about you, know what
you do as an eod tech man,because it's yes yeah, so sign
(11:29):
up for this it's so much funit's it's one of the best jobs
it's one of the best jobs in themilitary.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
It really is and honestly, like counter id was so
fun because it is.
It is spy versus spy, it's youagainst the bomb maker and it is
so cool to have someone who isjust actively trying to kill you
like and to roll up on a deviceto not only render it safe but
(11:55):
then, after you take, you are.
So our big thing is.
It's not just about blowingshit up, which I do love, I do
love it quite a bit.
It does, uh, it is.
It is about interdicting the,the train of the creation of an
explosive device that's used tohurt our brothers and sisters,
you know that are over therewith us, and to take evidence,
(12:17):
process that evidence, find outwho the hell it is, and then go
knock on that guy's door and,you know, give him the good news
, and that process is is one ofthe most fun and rewarding
things ever, because you'retaking you, you are taking a
very, very dangerous chess pieceoff the enemy's board and it is
so much fun uh, you're, youknow you just gotta get over the
(12:38):
whole dying thing, you knowyeah, we were in the intel side
as a contractor.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I actually put together the weapons
intelligence teams and launchedthese two teams of spec ops guys
and dogs and drones, but wewere using Intel and our only
focus, bro, was the bomb maker.
You can't replace them.
When those guys are gone, thenetwork collapses because those
are the smartest dudes and youguys are on the other side of
that fight.
So how many years you do EODand what happened when you got
(13:03):
back?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah, so I was in it for about six and a half years,
was an EOD team leader, uh,deployed with conventional
forces and special forces doingall kinds of different
operations from you know doingum, doing uh interdiction
operations on like the Taliban'suh infrastructure.
So we, you know partner withthe dea, go in and blow up
heroin presses in the middle ofthe night.
That was super fun uh but uh,you know, I got back and you
(13:31):
know, and honestly, man, like,compared to some of the stuff
that the other guys that werearound me like I didn't nothing
bad happened to me compared towhat happened to them at all,
but that like hyper vigilance,um, and then just that constant
being on really took a toll.
(13:53):
Uh, when I got back itdeveloped a panic disorder, um,
had some you know bad personalshit happen at the same time and
it just it all added up and youknow it got so bad that I was
having a panic stack every day.
Those suck dude, no dude, yeahI mean it's fun dude, two, three
hours, literally.
Like one time I was.
I was walking through walmartin colorado springs and I just
(14:16):
bought a tv because I built ahouse, so bought a tv for the
new house, and this guy justlike gave me the stink eye for
some reason at Walmart and itlike like grab my gun, boom, had
to like rush, like rush home,close all the blinds and just
sit in my dark bedroom for likethree hours.
(14:37):
And that went on and on and onand on, for you know, going on
five, six months, I was finallylike all right, like 45 is
looking pretty tasty right now.
I don't want to do this anymore.
Um, and you know it was, it wasliterally my phone going off my
pocket that kept me from offingmyself.
And you know it was one of myfriends.
(14:58):
He invited me over to, uh, tohis place.
Um, it was.
It was.
This was on Christmas Eve 2014.
To his place this was onChristmas Eve 2014.
Invites me over to his place.
This was before I had everpartaken in any psychedelics or
got into this at all.
Really, I had ever stuck mytoes in mental health at all.
(15:19):
He goes hey, man, you're fuckedup.
And I can tell.
Take what's on that counter andhe takes out this little baggie
and pour some pure MDMA on thecounter.
You know, I was like man,everybody who does drugs is
putting holes in their brain.
Well, I was like, well, I'mabout to put a big hole in my
brain anyway.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, so might as well Poor guy yeah, might as
well.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And so I did.
I took it and it was the mosttransformative experience I've
probably ever had Certainly, youknow, the first of many.
But it was like someone took mysoul, just wrenched it out of
my body, just washed that fuckerin bleach and stuck it back in.
(16:03):
I got to feel joy for one ofthe first times in my life, I
realized, and it just shifted myperspective in such a radical
way that I was like okay, allright, I want to live now.
At least this feeling ispossible.
So I've been stuck in this deepdark hole.
I can can see the light now andnow I can start to walk towards
(16:24):
it.
Um, good for you and absolutelygame-changing.
I didn't really realize theimpact that it had until about
five months.
Five months later, six monthslater, um, one of my mentors uh,
I was in the motor pool withhim, just smoking and joking,
having a great time oh, soyou're still in the army yeah, I
(16:44):
was still in the army this timelisten bruce.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I like to take risks hey, you're talking to a guy
that was part of the cocaineexplosion in the 80s and seven
special forces group.
So yeah, I've been there.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Okay, oh yeah I did a train up with a seventh group
um I've got a I've got some, uhsome some insights yeah, back in
the 80s, before they inventedthe 10 panel drug test, yeah
well, they wouldn't watch it,that's for sure.
No, go ahead, yeah so um, soyeah, five, you know six months
(17:19):
later I'm in.
I'm in the motor pool talking toNeil having a good old time.
We're about to go to the fieldand I said bye to him.
On Friday, on Monday morning,memorial Day, we roll out to go
do a field problem and we get acall.
Neil had walked down to hisbackyard and blew his head off,
with his three-year-old son inthe house, and it just floored
(17:40):
me.
No, you would never know thathe was suffering.
You know we, we all know thoseguys we served with.
You know the senior, thosesenior ncos who are like crusty
but they're nice to everybody.
It's like they're like therobin williams of the of the
unit and and it was just likethat, it was just like someone
ripped my leg off, just the, thejerk of that.
(18:04):
That event.
It really floored me and itreally made me just look at the
whole system and go, you knowwhat Fuck this?
Like we can do better.
Like the cause I had beenthrough, you know, the army's,
the army's mental system, and itwas garbage.
It was just medication,medication, medication, talk
therapy, medication, medication.
And I was like I really feeland I didn't know anything at
(18:27):
the time, I had researched allthis I really felt then like
deep down, that if Neil had hadthe experience that I had had on
Christmas Eve, he would stillbe alive.
And it just became this drivingforce that, no matter what, I'm
going to do this for otherpeople, because we lose way too
(18:50):
many amazing individuals tosuicide and it is so, so
preventable.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
It is and that's what I think what you're doing right
now is absolutely, you know,key to this because you know, on
the advocacy side, that's whatour foundation does.
We're like look, we can.
This is the largest preventablecause of suicide in this
country repetitive brain trauma,sports and military.
And if we got to, we got to wehave to fight wars, there's no
doubt, and we can train better,better.
(19:18):
save it all for game day, andgame day Just let it happen.
When we come back and we'reharmed, we've got to get
treatments that work and for youknow, the reason our suicide
rate hasn't moved and billionsof dollars have been spent on
this problem is because theywill not get off the common
approach, which is drugs, likeyou just said, drugs and goddang
top therapy and I don't knowwhere the chain that we're
(19:42):
pushing hard for the change, butyou're actually delivering it,
man.
So that is so what?
So what got you from, you know,army guy, mda experience, now
entrepreneur, you know, into thepsychedelic field helping these
veterans?
How did you get there?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
that's a, that's an amazing transition dude, just
read a lot of pub med.
And as soon as I I started,dude, seriously, I was like you
know what I was like man.
At first I was like, okay, I'mgoing to go to medical school,
like I'm going to become adoctor, and you know, do all
this, I'm going to use the GIbill to pay for all this.
And then I realized, you know,second, the knowledge that I
(20:18):
need is not in the traditionalestablishment.
The only way that these doctorseven know about this stuff is
literally by reading PubMed.
I was like, cool, I can do that.
And so I started the Invictusproject, started this nonprofit
to start paying for guys to getmore effective treatments.
(20:40):
So found out about ketamine.
All right, cool, that's, that'sgreat.
But ketamine seems to have apretty.
You know, this is me thinkingat the time.
You know, ketamine, it's gotsome pretty transitory effects.
Like after you know, eight to10 weeks, people are starting to
get symptoms come back.
All right, that's cool.
What's the next thing?
Okay, hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
(21:02):
All right, this has a lot ofpromise.
But the more I read, the morewe found, the more I found that
there was again that transitoryeffect.
After about six months you getlike three steps forward and
then, you know, one step backbecause of the that knock on
inflammation in the brain.
So you know, I met, I met adoctor in Aspen and started
(21:25):
helping him develop anintranasal stem cell protocol
and you know, that's somethingthat we're still working on
today but like we've used it on,I've used it, we used it on my
dad and a bunch of otherveterans and saw pretty amazing
results.
And then that's what led in tocreating MindSpot, to create an
outpatient psychiatry clinicwhere we can bring all these
(21:47):
things in and create a protocolthat can actually heal and
rewire the brain in a prettyshort period of time.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So talk about this to our audience.
We say heal and rewire.
What specifically are youtalking about?
So I understand that you can dothis.
You can actually heal the brain, you and rewire what
specifically you talking about.
So you understand that you cando this.
You can actually heal the brain, you can rewire absolutely, but
it ain't with drugs and talktherapy.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So yeah, talk, talk to our audience about it.
Now the talk therapy is acomponent of this.
So everything that we do inmental health, aside from trauma
healing a traumatic braininjury like ptsd, depression,
anxiety is rewiring the brain.
Everybody just has differenttools.
I personally, I like to usepower tools.
Um, so let's just walk throughlike I'll walk through a little
(22:29):
bit of our protocol, cause I'llkind of answer this question
simultaneously.
So one of the first things we dostart with is ketamine infusion
therapy.
So one of the things thatketamine does is that it
downregulates inflammation inthe brain and it upregulates
neuroplasticity.
It upregulates brain-derivedneurotrophic factors, a hormone
that causes your brain cells tobranch out and create new
(22:49):
connections.
Now why are those two thingsimportant?
So there are two primary thingsthat PTSD, depression, anxiety
and traumatic brain injurieshave in common.
One, they affect neuralconnectivity, so they affect
your brain's ability to talk toitself.
(23:10):
And two, they cause a ton ofinflammation in the brain, and
that's one of the reasons thatinflammation piece and that
connectivity piece.
Those are two of the primaryreasons that people become
treatment resistant.
Because what we need tounderstand and this is really
where I think that themainstream has just completely
missed the boat is that thesethings are highly inflammatory
(23:34):
to the brain.
What happens to your brain whenit gets inflamed?
It shunts off blood flow.
So you know, the blood vesselsin your brain are very, very
small, like.
They're so small that like asingle red blood cell can pass
through at a time, and itdoesn't take a whole lot of
inflammation before, all of asudden, you're trying to suck a
golf ball through a garden hose.
Now, when you're sucking a golfball through a garden hose and
(23:56):
your cells can't get oxygenthat's being carried by that red
blood cell, they have to switchover from creating energy in a
very energy efficient manner.
It's called cellular respiration.
They switch over from cellularrespiration think like breathing
to anaerobic glycolysis.
This is how cancer cells makeenergy.
It's a fermentation processthat puts off a lot of waste
that waste is.
(24:17):
Then it creates a knock-oninflammatory effect.
So you can see over time youknow we're talking about people
who are suffering from this for10, 20 years Over time that
inflammation builds up, shuntsoff blood flow and just creates
this downward spiral.
And we see that.
We see the effects of that inour populations.
So the entirety of the protocol, once we really like figured
(24:41):
out the mechanism.
The entirety of everything wedo is centered around reducing
inflammation and thenupregulating the brain's ability
to rewire itself and create newconnections.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
That makes absolute sense because we know that.
You know number one.
You know, especially if you'redealing with men and women that
are still in the job thatneuroinflammation is going to
continue because the brain isgoing to continue to get jolted,
it's going to continue to getinjured and it's going to
release you know more of these.
You know you got all kinds ofyou know neurotransmitters.
You've got you know chemicalcascades, you've got all these
(25:13):
things that the brain releasesto protect itself, that in turn,
over time, start to becometoxic to the brain in addition
to what you just explained, andstart degrading the actual brain
structures demyelination,dysmyelination, synaptic death.
You know and this damage is andI want to you know, talk about
this a little bit too is thatneuroinflammation creates damage
(25:36):
and that damage is absolutelyknown through research and
science to be associated withmental illness.
Yet nobody in this country isbeing trained from a psychiatric
or medical perspective toassociate or diagnose mental
illness in association with RBEor TBI or RHI.
And that is the disconnect thatwe're trying to fix here is to
(25:57):
take the knowledge that you justexplained and start giving this
out to the professional medicalcommunity when you see a mental
illness, if you don't assessfor TBI, rha or RBE, then you're
just doing nothing for thatkid's brain or that adult's
brain because you're just givingthem medicine, you're giving
them drugs and it's not helpingthem at all.
So that's, that's, uh.
And so you, you, you figuredall this out.
(26:19):
You got the, so you haveketamine.
What's your protocol?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, so yeah, so sorry, I went on a little
diatribe there aboutneuroinflammation.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I love those rabbit holes, bro man, it's all good.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's an important rabbit hole.
So yeah, just you know.
Quick synopsisNeuroinflammation is a huge
problem.
You just touched on microglialpriming that's something I talk
to Dr Mark Gordon a lot aboutand just these knock-on issues
that are really it's a problemwith energy creation.
(26:52):
So how we combat that?
So we start with this ketamineinfusion therapy that
down-regulates inflammation,up-regulates brain-derived
neurotropic factors, so itallows us to rewire the brain
more effectively.
Then, coming into hyperbaricoxygen therapy, so putting
someone down at about 1.5atmospheres absolute for 40 to
(27:14):
60 treatments.
That again it forcesinflammation down in the brain.
It increases your cells abilityto create energy because you're
providing more oxygen.
The the last piece in cellularrespiration, the last ingredient
, is oxygen.
Without it, again we have toswitch over to that anaerobic
glycolysis to make energy.
Also, healing like actualcellular healing is an
(27:36):
incredibly energy intensiveprocess and that's why the hBOT
is so important.
But the HBOT alone won't do it.
We have to add in these otherthings to help supercharge this
process.
The other piece transcranialmagnetic stimulation.
For anybody not familiar withTMS, tms is an MRI coil that's
(27:58):
placed on the head.
We can place it in a number ofdifferent positions but for like
the treatment of depression.
It's placed over thedorsolateral prefrontal cortex.
That magnetic, that MRI coilcreates a magnetic field under
the surface of the scalp andthat magnetic field basically
tricks your neurons into wiringmore cohesively in a network
(28:19):
where we are treating.
So why is that important?
If we were to look at the brainof, let's say, someone who's
suffering from post-traumaticstress disorder, what you would
see if you could do across-section just look at how
it's firing you would see anunderactive prefrontal cortex,
so an underactive executivefunctioning center, and an
(28:39):
overactive amygdala, so thatamygdala is hijacking your lived
experience all the time,causing all of the effects that
we see from PTSD.
So with that coil we're treatingthese areas and upregulating
the density of neurons in anarea.
Imagine your prefrontal cortexand your amygdala are at a
(29:00):
concert.
They're like at Coachella andthey've got different.
They're at different stages.
If you have post-traumaticstress disorder, the stage of
your prefrontal cortex is justsitting there with a little
megaphone while the amygdalagets a whole sound system.
So what we're doing isreinforcing the megaphone and
turning it into like a fullstage setup in the prefrontal
cortex so it can shout down theamygdala and tell it to shut the
(29:22):
hell up, cause that's what ourexecutive functioning centers do
in the brain.
Among other things, they tellthe rest of our brain to shut
the hell up.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Okay, and that makes sense, because we do know that,
again, mental illness is heavilyassociated with a damaged
prefrontal cortex and along withpsychological, behavioral and
cognitive disorders, whichshould be used in terms of
diagnosing people to get them toyou so they can get fixed.
So I mean yeah, and then allright.
So, and now I noticed on yourwebsite you have what's called
(29:51):
deep transcranial magneticsimulation.
Let me ask you a quick questionbefore you go there.
Tms has been available inalmost every doctor shop in
Europe for like the last, Idon't know, 20 years.
You can just get it everywherehere in America.
Every time somebody comes upwith a cool TMS thing, some rich
group of investors fromsomewhere comes down and buys
these puppies and puts them outof business, right?
(30:13):
So like TMS, even though it'slike so widely accepted in
Europe, it's hardly availablehere, and I think it's because
it treats.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
That's not true, bruce.
That's not true Bruce.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I'm not finding it out.
I'm not finding it in too manycenters here in America.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
It is in every single major city.
It is FDA approved for thetreatment of depression.
So you can.
And that's, I think, wherethere's a little bit of
confusion.
Like you, you do have to kindof play the game with TMS, uh,
cause it's approved for majordepressive disorder, but the
insurance companies want you tofail between two to three
(30:49):
antidepressant meds before youcan access TMS.
Now there's a bunch ofprotocols that TMS is getting
studied, so they just they justincreased the, the age.
The age gaps are now like kidsdown to 15 years old can get TMS
.
There are ongoing studies withPTSD.
(31:10):
There's ongoing studies withregional pain syndrome.
Like this technology is insane,uh, what we can do with it.
It's just taking some time tocatch up.
And there are also, you know,newer technologies like embp or
mert uh, that are eeg guided tms.
So instead of like repetitivetms hitting someone with like 10
(31:32):
hertz repetitively fordepression, uh, we're able to
take an EEG of the brain andcreate a personalized pulse
protocol for each individual'sbrain.
So that's what's coming downthe pipe, it, it?
It may seem like it's a littlebit out of reach, but as far as
like accessibility, I guaranteeif I put in your zip code, I
could find at least twopsychiatric offices that uh uh
(31:55):
provide tms within 10 miles.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
That's my point, the only where, the only place you
find tms right now we're in myexperience I've been doing this
a little while it's in likebrain health centers like yours.
I mean it's available, don'tworry, but you got to go look
for it.
We're in europe.
It's like in every doctor'soffice like you can.
Okay, it's like it's.
It's like you could go in anydoctor's office Like you can.
It's like it's.
It's like you can go in anydoctor's office or a medical
building and there's TMS.
(32:18):
And and and my point is givingthe efficacy and the known value
of the protocol, it should bemore widely available and, to
your point, more widely coveredby insurance, because TMS you
still, you still got to play thegame where it's not accepted
and that's.
You know that's creating a lotof pain for our veterans that
are, you know, paying out ofpocket and doing all that kind
(32:39):
of crazy stuff.
But you know to hear yourpassion about that protocol, I
mean, obviously, I mean it'sbeen effective.
But what's the differencebetween TMS and deep TMS?
Is it a different machine?
Speaker 2 (32:51):
or something like that.
Yeah, so it's a different coil.
There's only one company thatdoes deep TMS, that's Brainsway.
They have an H coil.
Basically, the coil is designedinstead of in a figure of eight
, which has a limited amount ofdepth that it can create the
depth of that magnetic field.
(33:12):
The H coil is overlappedpped,so it creates a deeper, uh, a
deeper coil like basically inlayman's terms uh, you get more
cubic, uh, cubic millimeters ofstimulation, so you get more
neurons that are in thestimulation box.
We, we stimulate a broader areaand that allows for um faster
(33:34):
results.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Okay.
So let's talk about longevityof treatment.
Okay, now we know, if you go tothe VA, you know they just like
you said right, you're done.
Rest of your life.
Here's a bag of drugs here, gotalk to this person and that's
your life.
That's it, you're done right?
So with patients that have cometo you right, suicidal drug,
(33:55):
addicted, whatever what kind ofsuccess rates are you having?
Or is there a certain number oftreatments or sessions, months,
where you think they're nothealed but they're able to go on
with their life much betterthan they were before?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, so you know, the best data we have is out of
our Patriot Power Up program,which is a part of VA Community
Care, by the way.
So we're the only program thatis within the VA Community Care
network that provides TMS,ketamine and hyperbaric and is
fully covered.
Okay, so let's go back to that.
So that's fully covered.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
It's ketamine and hyperbaric and is fully covered.
Okay, so let's go back to that.
So that's fully covered.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
It's fully covered.
It's a part of the VA CommunityCare Network.
It's an inpatient program up inCoeur d'Alene, Idaho.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Okay, so is there any chance that that can be
expanded, or is there anystudies going on to expand that
provision, because I mean thatshould be in all 50 states.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Oh dude, it should be in all 50 states.
I mean I'm looking to get somemeetings with Doug Collins.
As soon as that confirmationcomes through, I will help you
all.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I can, man.
I mean that is amazing thatyou've got some VA coverage
going on, because that'sprecedence, bro, and that's what
we need for the rest of thecommunity.
But keep going, man.
My back Sorry.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, no, no, you're good.
But what we're seeing as far aslongevity goes is, if you
combine these treatments andcombine them with, you know,
proper nutrition, gettingsomeone you know back in the gym
, making sure that they're, theyare instantiating healthy
habits.
You put that in with culturallycompetent talk therapy, that
really provides the roadmap forall this.
(35:40):
And we're seeing, a year out,none of these guys are
qualifying for the diagnosisanymore.
They go from acute boom down todamn near zero and they stay
that way.
And that's that just speaks toone, the power of using these
treatments in conjunction withone another, but also to the
(36:00):
fact that in the program, like,we're teaching these guys
healthy habits, and that'sreally really important for
everyone to understand.
You know, these treatments areawesome, they are super
effective, especially when usedin conjunction, but if you don't
create healthy life habits, youare going to end up in the same
hole that you started in.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Integration.
Yep, that's a great point.
What about now?
You mentioned Mark Gordon'sname, right?
I just got off the phone withhim about an hour ago, Hello.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Mark.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, mark's got.
You know his supplementationprogram is absolutely stellar
and we do believe that I mean heshould be actually the first
step before we start.
You know, balance that brainfirst, so these modalities would
be more efficient, you know,and nodding your head, so you
know well how do you interactwith other, not only like
programs, mark Gordon.
(36:55):
But what about what's yourfeeling on other psychedelic
programs?
You know ayahuasca, ibogaine,psychedelics.
You know you're obviouslyalready doing ketamine, which is
really it's more of a chemical,but you're obviously in the
psychedelic class it'sexperience.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Ketamine is actually naturally occurring.
They just found a bacteriumthat makes it.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
So ah, really.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Just check it out.
I'm all about that.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I mean that puts it right in the psychedelic camp.
When I talk to it, does it does?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
I'm going to start with Mark's protocol.
Like, first, I love Mark.
He's one of the one of thepeople in the world that just
makes me feel like I'm an idiotwhenever I talk to him, because
he's so damn smart.
He is super smart.
Yeah, his protocol is awesomeand is a great way to rebalance
the brain and downregulateinflammation.
(37:45):
I would love to put it at thefront end of our protocol
because I do agree, rebalancingthe brain's hormone production
is the first step in healing andthat's a huge, a huge deal.
Um.
So, love Mark, love what hedoes.
I'm always looking to integrate, um his best practices in with
(38:05):
what we do as well.
Uh, they, they are like thisyou know, there's there's no
reason in my mind to to separatethe two.
They need to be brought closertogether as part of it, an
overarching protocol.
Because, uh, last time I talkedto him, uh, he was talking
about about 77 percent um 77success rate and I was like,
cool, where's that last 33?
Speaker 1 (38:27):
let's go right even at 77, man, that's a lot better
than what we're seeing from mostanything else.
Yeah, that the VA willprescribe.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Sorry, oh yeah.
I mean just the efficacy ofSSRIs on their very, very best
day.
For your first SSRI is 33%.
As soon as you knock down tothe second SSRI, that, uh, that
number goes down to about 25%.
By the time you get to four orthree, 16,.
(38:59):
By the time you're at yourfourth antidepressant it's about
6% chance of having anyclinical effect.
That was the star D study,largest study on antidepressants
ever done, and it turns out nowthat they've looked back at it
they padded those numbers, sothey're lower than that, um,
lower than that.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, and that's the.
That's the recommended approachby rba, so that's that's.
Yeah, right there that's gonnachange.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Oh, it's so.
So does like just take thoseclinical practice the va
clinical practice guidelines forthe treatment of depression,
anxiety and ptsd, and we justburn those they're.
They're not worth the paperthey're written on they all.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Given our suicide rate, it's not.
Now for your program what kindof success rate do you have?
And just from a positiveexperience perspective, like you
know who's coming out what areyou seeing with the veterans and
the other patients that you'reseeing in your spa right now?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, I mean we're seeing upwards of 90% success.
You know it's hard to it's hardto quantify super well, we're
not you know we're, we're in the, in the business of providing
this care.
We're not doing the level, thelevel of rigor of clinical
research.
Um, that you would see, uh, youknow, in like a double blind,
(40:09):
placebo, controlled study, and Ido need to say that out front
because there there is a lot ofvariance.
People do have to engage withthe process.
The more you engage with theprocess, you engage with more of
the treatment protocol, theresults are better.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Well, that's my point is that, even though there's no
double-blind studies on thisstuff, there's two issues here.
Number one we're losing 22veterans a day to suicide
Probably more when you look atother reasons to die alcoholism,
whatever, right.
Number two you know you don'tneed double blind studies here
because these things aren'tgoing to kill you.
(40:42):
All right Now.
It's not like you built.
You built a new chemotherapymedicine or a new drug or
whatever that needs to bestudied for its impact on the
body.
You're not going to die fromketamine.
You take too much or you justgo to sleep.
It's an anesthesia, right,you're not going to.
You can't overdose on tms in amedical clinic.
I mean, you can probably wearthe hat for 24 days and and
probably hurt yourself andyou're not going to die from
(41:03):
talk therapy.
You're going to get bored, allright.
So you're talking about threemodalities that you're not going
to talk about, with a 90 atleast rate of positive
improvement for veterans lifewho are dying at 22 a day.
I don't give a shit about noblind stuff.
Okay, I'm saying that whatyou're doing right now is
helping veterans.
That's evidence.
If you take those 90 out of ahundred guys they say, hey, this
(41:26):
should help me and everything Igot from the VA or Tricare
didn't.
Okay, and I am a better person,I am off drugs and my, my wife,
loves me and I'm talking to mykids.
That's evidence, okay.
And we are at a point right nowwhere we have to say enough on
veterans' mental illness,whether it's caused by RBE or
the psychological trauma of war.
(41:47):
We're done.
We're done.
And these are just roadblocksfor and you can go down your
conspiracy rat hole about, well,big Pharma doesn't want this
and the FDA is part of BigPharma.
And you can go down yourconspiracy rat hole about, well,
big farmer doesn't want thisand the FDA is part of big
farmer and the VA's sold the bigfarmer.
I mean, all I know is my kidcalls me up from Fort Bragg and
they're giving out benzos andsleeping aids to kids, and
there's only two things that youcan die from when you withdraw
(42:08):
alcohol and benzo.
Why the hell are we givingbenzos out at?
You know, at Fort Bragg?
And he's just heard it from hisguys and it's like this is
absolutely insane.
And so I'm talking to a youngman who's been through hell,
turned his life around, isgiving back to others and yet
the protocols that not only thathelped him, but it's helping
others can't get, we can't getthis level of coverage that it
(42:31):
should happen.
So where are you at right now?
Are you?
Have you approached the va?
Do you super bill, do you?
Uh, what are you doing, um?
Or veterans, just coming toyour amazing foundation to get
coverage for the cost?
Speaker 2 (42:43):
so actually like it, it's been much less the
foundation and much more um.
Just, we've created some accesspoints, um, so we have a
tricare program.
Um, I am still waiting to see,because tricare switched over um
from health net to tri west.
Oh yeah, so they, theirreimbursement for tms is very
(43:05):
high, uh, and it's, it's highenough and they will approve
enough sessions that I canafford to give the other stuff
away for free.
So nice, um, yeah, as long asthe reimbursement rates stay the
same, and we should find outthat in the next couple of weeks
.
So we our program, you know,last year was super successful.
Anybody who gets approved fortranscranial magnetic
(43:29):
stimulation through TRICARE,we'll give them the HBOT and the
ketamine for free, becausewe're making enough to cover it.
I, I care about results, um,you know, as long as we're
keeping the lights on uh and andmaking enough to be sustainable
.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
That's, that's what matters to me do you have a hard
or soft show?
Hbot?
Sorry to interrupt uh, right.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
So right now we got a couple of of soft ones, but I'm
in the process of getting ahard chamber that goes up to 2.0
.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I've got a friend to talk to.
He can probably get you adiscount.
He's in the advocacy space.
I'll put you in touch, oh yeah,please do you know.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Hey, I love it.
Hey, I'm an entrepreneur, Ilove a good discount.
No dude, bootstrapping's toughman an entrepreneur, I love a
good discount.
Oh, dude, bootstrapping stuffman, I've done it.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I'll tell you what, bruce, I'll never do it again.
No, it's.
It's hard, man, when you giveso much to help others.
Um well, okay, so tms, you getcoverage on.
That's great yeah, tms.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
And then, yeah, we, like I said, we give the other
stuff away.
Um, you know it's we're we'reworking on a way to bill
insurance for ketamine.
Um, I've got that.
That conversation is happeningtomorrow, so yeah, yeah.
It's.
We'll talk about that offline,but yeah, man, it's really just
my whole focus in this space isaccess to care, access to more
(44:51):
effective care.
I should say like because we dohave the solutions for this
stuff.
This is like it's not that hardLike.
This is cellular biology, it'snot rocket science, If you treat
the underlying cause of theseinjuries.
People get better, and they getbetter really, really fast and
they stay better.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
I mean that should be the end of the show, right
there, right, I mean, becausethat is the truth and we keep
dealing with this.
We talk to people like yourselfall the time that are producing
these modalities that aregetting these veterans back, and
we have, you know, so many ofthem are just stuck and they're
spiraling because they don'tknow, they have no hope.
They're either told hey, you,you're just gonna die with this.
Nfl players same boat, right.
(45:34):
So nfl players do not want totalk about this, they just think
they're gonna die.
They don't know you can behealed, you can be improved and
you can get back.
And, and it's an amazingservice that you're doing, sam I
, I can't thank you enough, man.
I mean, oh thanks, bruce, thisis awesome.
And my daughter lives in denver, so I got another one in
colorado springs.
I retired on 10th there.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
So I will definitely.
I supported 10th group.
I supported 10th group, youknow, out of Fort Carson.
So I was at 71st, like rightbehind you guys.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Okay yeah, I was the B210 Sergeant Major back in like
99 to 2000.
Way, way back before you wereborn.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Yeah, back before my time.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
No doubt, dude, but no man, I cannot thank you for
what you're doing, man.
So tell us how people find you.
How do they find Sam InvictusMedSpa?
I mean, how do they get a holdof you and then find the
resources they need to educatethemselves and come see you?
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, honestly, linkedin is the best place to
find me.
Sam j peterson um, it's sam jpeterson mba.
On linkedin, um, and thenmindspot denvercom um, that's,
that's my clinic here in denver.
Uh, if you're interested in thepatriot power up program,
wwwpatriotpowerupcom and allthese websites have have contact
forms, uh, that go to eithermyself or one of our teammates.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
So if you reach out, we'll take care of you At least
point you in the right directionand personally, if it wasn't
for Ketamine, I don't think Icould have found my way back,
because that and still ateganglion blocks are my first
things.
I tried trying to get out of myhole back in the day.
So you're definitely on tosomething, sam and um.
I definitely.
(47:19):
We definitely want to doeverything we can to support um
and so definitely we're in touch.
Now you know we've got aconference uh on on repetitive
brain trauma coming up inSeptember.
Feel free to ask if you want topresent.
I'm doing a town hall forveterans, that we're doing
monthly town halls on veteransfor doing two things educate
them on rbe and then educatethem how to deal with da and get
(47:40):
the coverage uh and disabilitythat they deserve.
Uh.
One quick question on billingcodes um for tms, are you what?
What billing codes?
Are you going under the tbibilling codes, the rb, the new
rbe billing codes or uh, what uhfor diagnosis?
Speaker 2 (47:55):
uh, so for for tms, like we use, we use the cpt
codes for major depressivedisorder to bill.
Okay, um, that's that's kind ofour gateway into into treating
uh the nice thing I mean not thenice thing, but uh, the
fortunate thing is that withtraumatic brain injuries, uh,
the most common comorbidity isdepression.
(48:17):
So that's that's our primary,our primary way into the system.
Good for you.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
All right, and just so you know, I'm sure you notice
that I think it was the CDCjust labeled TBIs as a chronic
ailment, so that should help usas well.
That just came out hererecently.
So you know, but, man, my hat'soff to you for fighting this
space, bro.
I mean we need so many more SamPetersons out there.
A remarkable journey.
I mean just listening to youtalk about brain health.
(48:43):
I mean you've educated yourself.
I mean to the point where it'samazing.
It's amazing to hear you talk,and I just love seeing veterans
not only succeed but give back.
And you're doing both, man.
So my hat's off to you.
We're going to have you back onthe show.
When I'm in Denver, I'mdefinitely calling you up for a
craft beer or something.
Man, I'll find you.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Absolutely, man.
Come by the clinic we're downin the Denver Tech Center.
I always do.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
I'm always ready for another ketamine treatment.
Man.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
I'll come in with my checkbook, we'll take care of it
and I'll look forward toraising money for you too.
Absolutely, man, well, we'll,uh, we're.
We are rolling out and this isthe first time we're talking
about this publicly um, we arerolling out a new experiential
uh ketamine service.
So we're going to be using uhvibroacoustics in conjunction
with ketamine so we have a soundtable, uh, where we can curate
the ketamine experience and helpyou get farther with it and
create that really, reallymeaningful experience.
Another thing that we do withour ketamine experience is that
(49:42):
nobody else does.
I haven't seen anybody do thisyet.
So when someone comes out ofthat disassociative state, we
capture kind of what thatexperience was like just from
their words, capture kind ofwhat that experience was like
just from their words, and thenwe put that into an AI art
generator and then createcustomized AI art to commemorate
that experience, thatexperience for them.
We print it out and give it tothem so they have something.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
That is crazy man.
Again, you know, leading fromthe front man you're doing,
you're doing a great job, sam.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Can't thank you enough.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
God bless you and your journey and thank you so
much for what you're doing forour veterans.
I really can't thank you enough.
This has been an amazing show.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, thanks, bruce, appreciateyou man.
All right, and for everybody outthere man, again, another
amazing show.
Stay tuned, don't forget, wehave the HeadSmart app on Google
and Apple to help youunderstand the issue of
(50:33):
subcussive trauma, for youparents that don't know what it
is, and to better monitor yourkid when you think they have a
concussion, because you actuallyknow and they don't.
Or the book that we have forfree Youth Contact Spokes and
Broken Brains.
Go to our website, download it.
We'll be having a town hall forveterans and we'll be
announcing our dates this weekfor the second annual conference
, international conference onrepetitive brain trauma.
(50:54):
These things have neverhappened in the world.
We had the last one last year.
We're going to really pump itup in Tampa.
Thank you so much for listening.
We're looking forward to seeingyou again on another episode of
Broken Brains with BruceParkman, sponsored by the Mac
Parkman Foundation.
Really appreciate you.
God bless you all.
Thank you you.
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In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com