Gavin Says "Fuck You Cancer" : A Broken Tiles Interview

Episode Transcript
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Brian Upton (00:12):
This is the broken tiles podcast Special Edition,
one on one conversation. My bestfriend, Gavin writer. Hey, go.

Gavin (00:26):
Hey, man, how you doing?

Can I do it different today? We are
currently. I think from whatthey said a little while ago
about 6000 feet of waterunderneath us right now.

Gavin (00:36):
more water than I want to swim in. I

will say that yeah, and a lot of water on our decks
last night because we had 10 and15 foot swells

Gavin (00:44):
a lot of salt on this on the railing.

We are on the Norwegian joy and finishing our
Mexican Riviera trip. We havealready gone to Cabo. We've been
to Mazatlan and porta Viar toecorrect and we're on our way to
it

Gavin (01:01):
and Sinatra.

There we go to some taco tasting and things like
that. Kind of a fun episode herewe're going to be doing I guess
we got to get the elephant outof the room right out the gate.
They always say Gavin within thefirst four minutes of a podcast.
Let them know what it's allabout because you want to engage
them and keep them and so we gotone huge topic we got to get
right out of the gate and Ithink it'll engage people and

(01:24):
it's captivating.

Gavin (01:25):
What's this about? Again,

this is about the Broncos hired Sean Payton has a
head coach.

Gavin (01:29):
I love it.

So little bit of a we will actually believe it or
not in this podcast, we willcover that. But I think it's
best Gavin like for like anyintro to a guest. I can sit
there and talk about you. I can.
I think the best way to tell youthat let's start there. Let's
start where we met. I was wellif I'm been married to Stacey

(01:53):
now for coming up on 33 years.
That means I've known you 34years. Yeah, that's always easy.
Easy math for me because it'shard to do. Friends
Anniversaries are difficultbecause you know honestly either
have a great school friend easyto do the math but a friend that
you meet at 20 going on 20 Iguess I was 22 when I met you

(02:15):
seem right. You got me aboutwhat three years or two? How old
are you right now?

Gavin (02:19):
I am 57 But I'm soon to be 58 Yeah, so

I'm soon to be 55.
So we got three years gap there.
But not to make it about me it'smy favorite thing to do. But
let's not make it about me. Iwhen I first moved to Denver,
we've talked a little bit aboutStacey nice story on the podcast
for us how we met but the firstjob that I got that was proper
was at a community called thebreakers in East Denver.

(02:44):
Beautiful concept communitygated community apartments on a
lake all the amenities healthclub pool, and so are this
thanks for Buzz killing thewhole thing that's like, that's
not really that big of a story,a bar. And so I got a job as a
think this might be not too manyother people on the planet get a
job hired as a bar manager andhealth club manager at the same

(03:07):
exact time. It's a nicecombination. I took the job and
I said well you know how manypeople might expect you on that
first day whether they saidthere's two people officially
that live here right now. And Ithink they said you and Joey had
signed you would go in firstJoey was first Joey was the
first like one of the firstleast sign you were right behind
him. And so I went up in I gotthe health club kind of set up
over a couple of weeks and thenwe finally set a date to open

(03:29):
the bar. I went up there and Ithink I sat in there for about
two hours didn't see anybody andthen Gavin Ryder walked in

Gavin (03:37):
are we use last names now? Well,

remember I told you before we can edit all of all of
this can be edited. And that'swhere we started and I think at
that point I would have been 21I think I think you would have
been 24 I would have been 21 Itwould have been the summer of
whatever year that was and Ithink we were joking at dinner
the other night you know I thinkthere's two different paths all
the times to what makes a bestfriend but I think you're you

(04:01):
and I at the beginning was thatbar and time sitting right
across from each other and formany of those first couple
months no one else there so wegot to know each other really
fast in a different way becausethe superficial bullshit kind of
goes you know you can only sayHow about them Broncos in how
about that weather so many daysin a row before you like I think

(04:23):
I want to get to know this guy

Gavin (04:25):
Yeah, well I think to the it's not just even there you
know our friendship last to youmoving to New York then moving
back to California back toColorado then to California I
mean, that's a long friendshipthat you know a lot of times
distance hurts friendships, butwe've been we hung out pretty

(04:46):
good good trans friends for awhile you're new

and I better than any other friend this is what
kind of catapults I really havea tight community of friends
that one of them's my friendCharles, who you know his name,
his dad and they put us togetherand we're three years old. And
so we've got A big number, we'vegot a big 52 year number we've
officially been friends and formany stretches, inseparable, but
also for times in between longgaps where we weren't that great

(05:11):
at it, you and I overall, stayedpretty great at it. You know, I
can't think off the top of myhead. I'm not gonna be
overdramatic about it. But theremight have been some months
because of transition and thingslike that. I don't think we ever
locked together years of reallynot talking to each other on
some level.

Gavin (05:30):
No, you've been one of my best friends as far as talking
to, you know, staying in touch.
And you know, I don't haveFacebook, so I'm really tough to
stay in touch with you gottacall me I mean, I'm not even
good at texting. So,

actually, this eventually, we're gonna get to
some historical record. I'llstop right there. But I do want
I want you to take it's kind ofa bullshit question. But I think
for a podcast, I do want toquite quickly get back to you,
your family, the writer familyin Denver, a little bit and sort
of they, they need to kind ofmeet you in a little bit the
same way that I did, you know,you know, 30 3040 years ago, we

(06:07):
weren't killed the whole timewith it. But I do think we need
to get a basis of who you are,who your family is your Denver,
kind of like history. But I dowant to jump ahead to one that
probably would have come upanyways. Why no social media

Gavin (06:22):
paranoia. I mean, I just whatever reason, just kind of
technological adverse,technological, technologically
ignorant. I just missed I mean,even though back in high school
that crazy basic computerprogramming but no, I just I

(06:45):
just kind of missed it. And thenI was always kind of that guy
with a silver head on the head.
And yeah, you know, just didn'twant I don't know. I think
Edward Snowden kinda Bolton capoff there. I think I think, you
know, if anyone you know if youknow what Edward stone said, and
I was right,

that's exactly right. I think for me, I'm on
the polar opposite. I'm alwaysassuming that that was
happening. I'm not discountingyour conspiracy theories. But
I'm like, if they get to me,this is one boring fucking
world. If for some reason theyeventually want to get to Brian
Upton, and hack my shit. One.
For you know, this is for longperiods of time. That's the last
credit you wanted. You didn'tyou finally had a successful

(07:27):
profile hack and account hackerBrian Upton, you find out there
$7 in the bank?

Gavin (07:35):
Well, I think too, I mean, I, you know, for me,
honestly, really more concernedabout hacking about people
getting in? And, you know,Facebook is I mean, it,
whatever. I mean, it's all fake.
Anyway, pretty much, right? It'salways putting their best face
on. But no, I think I don't knowenough about computers. I just

(07:56):
kind of naturally paranoid. AndI didn't want to try and open
myself up to, you know, hacking,you know, whether that means
bank accounts, stock accounts. Idon't know. And plus, I'm kind
of for as outgoing as I can bealso, kind of a private person.

Yeah, I got you.
And I think, I think in a lot ofways, you know, me well enough.
No, I don't have a ton ofjealousy, marry any, but I do
find myself jealous of peoplethat we're able to not kind of
like give into that. In thesocial media game, is. It
connects me with my children. Itconnects me in different ways

(08:39):
that I might not have hadbefore, especially with
distance. But overwhelmingly Ithink it's been it's been more
for society in overall it's beena negative.

Gavin (08:50):
Well, there is kind of a funny and serious reason why
haven't and if I was onFacebook, I would probably be
the world's worst stalker. Iwould stalk all my old college
gals that I used to like thatignored me. I would stalk High
School. I mean, I one know whateveryone was doing. I mean, I

(09:15):
not only would I probably godown a rabbit hole and not leave
the computer, I would be thatperson you'd really worry about.

Yeah, and I think you you have a commonality with
a very famous a CIA should havehired me, right. And but you
know, it's also down that path,in a lot of ways from his own as
Howard Stern talks about that alot. But he don't he doesn't
think he could he's not doesn'thave a huge presence on social
media. Let's bababooey And thoseguys handle it. But I think one
of his main reasons is that he'sobsessed with girls that

(09:42):
basically let him go by or thathe had dated and he literally
says it out loud on his radioshow because how they fucking
like me now. You know, like he'supset. Yours is different. But I
think I get what you're sayingwere in that world of,
especially with, you know, usearly on, you know, and still to
this day to a certain extent Ithink you would have been a
particular high guy to havemaybe a Friday night out, go

(10:03):
down to diamond cabaret and notkind of continue that search on
Saturday for the see a dancerthat was right in front of us or
the night before or would havebeen different.

Gavin (10:13):
I don't want to sound that creepy. Honest, I want you
to sound that yeah, you want mesend that query? Honestly, I
think would have been more thekind of like Howard, my hero
would have been kind of peoplejust out of curiosity, what are
they doing? You know, you know,is that hot gal still hot? You
know, what? What's her picturelook like? Now? You know, 3040

(10:36):
years later? Well, the

early one before all of this started, really? And
I could be wrong on this. Ireally might be. I think I'm
correct, though. I think beforeFacebook, there was
classmates.com classmates.comwas a website that you basically
saw some advertising it for it.
And this was back. I'm sure itpredated Facebook's, this was in
the 90s. And I think you signedup for it. And if your other
classmates signed up for it, itwas really just a more of a

(11:00):
meeting place to organizereunions. But within that was
the beginnings of what you'retalking about photos from high
school, current photos ofpeople, things like that. And it
just really locked intosomething. And who knows, maybe
this was some of the precursorfor Facebook, and these ones was
people's obsession with wherethey had been and showing where
they were now.

Gavin (11:18):
Right? Well, I think Facebook was originally kind of
a college. What do you call it?
A phonebook? Except it wasonline? Right? Yeah,

that's exactly it.
So yeah, we have that littletendency. But so we got that out
of the way. Just take a coupleminutes in I know, it's a this
is the hardest question to do.
But just to the best of yourability, because a little bit of
this. And we'll we'll dip in.
But the little bit. This is somelittle tidbits of historical
record, you know, so that I knowyou. I told Stacy was super
excited to do this with you.

(11:49):
Because I know you I've knownyou for 34 years. But rarely do
we talk in the context of howwe'll be talking today. But
also, I think it'll beinteresting, you know, sort of,
we don't talk in the timeline ofyour life ever. We just there's
no, there's no real need towe've taught, I've taught I know
you went to Kent, Denver. I knowyou were an athlete in high
school. I know you you went downto TCU, right, SMU SMU sorry,

(12:14):
but you went down to SMU. So Iknow these bits and parts of
your life as we talked about itin that moment. But I think in
kind of like in a congruentstandpoint, we never friends
don't talk that way. You know,so just just in a couple
minutes, just like Gavin writer,you know, mom, dad, your family,
your brother's a little bit andthen we'll kind of get a will
dip into rose and the kids downthe road here too. I think it'll

(12:35):
come up in some of thesequestions. And I think the first
parts just like, you know, you

Gavin (12:39):
know, well, I don't know, I probably get a little tough
for me. I don't like talkingabout myself, to be honest. But

it's gonna be a lot of dead air. If you don't, I'm
not gonna bail you.

Gavin (12:52):
Well, let's see. You know, I was my family was tended
to be I mean, my dad workedpretty darn hard. But back in
the day when Denver was onlymaybe about 200,000 people. You
know, my family was fairlyprominent in the community. My

(13:14):
grandfather, you know, had ahotel right there of i 25. In
Colorado Boulevard. It's nolonger there. But what hotel
that was called writer's Manor.
Okay, ma'am. Yeah, yeah. Soanyway, you know, my dad got
into the commercial real estatebusiness did fairly well,
actually, I should say he didvery well. And, you know,

(13:36):
allowed me to, I went to publicschool, you know, grade school
and then went to a privateJunior High in high school,
Kent, Denver. My brothers prettymuch were in private school the
whole time. You know, Grayland.
So, I don't know, we were veryfortunate, very blessed. You

(14:01):
know, didn't really want for toomuch. My dad though. You know,
Big Game Hunter, very athletic.
He ended up getting multiplesclerosis. Back in, I want to
say 7071 72 there abouts. Youknow, he'd come back from Africa
and one of his big game safarisand we thought it was something

(14:23):
maybe cotton Africa, you know,it was hard. It wasn't easily
diagnosed back then. But finallyit was he had the generative
kind of Ms. Yeah, where itcontinually got worse and it was
very painful. Yeah. And youknow, he died in 1982 I believe
by Yeah, 1980 to December. And Idon't know I mean, Luke growing

(14:50):
up with with kind of a person inyour family. Lots of pain pills.
Lots of

because it's not like you were a child, and you
would have been 17 When he died1617 or 17 Right in there. So
it's a lot of I was driving. Soyeah, yeah, so a lot of times
this happens, and you sort offabricate fantastical memories,
let's say if something like thathappens when you're three, four
or five, six years old, but um,that that's basically becoming a
grown ass man, when you saw theback end of that?

Gavin (15:23):
Well, and I was the oldest to, you know, let's just
say I was 16 at that. Well, 82Yeah, it would have been 17.
Right. So, you know, I had abrother 15 and another brother,
who would have been? I think 11.
So, you know, he kind of feltlike he got some responsibility,

(15:47):
but yet, it's still kind oftough. You know, obviously,
tough on my mom. But, you know,we kind of kind of muddled our
way through it. And, you know, Ithink I will say this for all
those that, you know, now it'svery thoughtful forward, you
know, get counseling, you know,mental health, that kind of

(16:08):
thing. I wish I would have donethat back then. I think some of
the issues I've had in my lifesince then, would have been
better solved, if I would havegotten some mental health.

Yeah, because I think we know now as old fuckers
that there's a lot of the, youneed to have some humility
regarding your own mental healthand humility regarding all of
it. Now, imagine a 17 year oldtrauma like that, the odds of
you going through a healthy,progressive grieving process,

(16:42):
were probably almost zerobecause of the time in the space
meaning giving yourself entirespace for denial for anger, for
it's unlikely at 17, that youwere able to go through that

Gavin (16:53):
well. And you know, I didn't say this, but I think
it's kind of germane. You know,part of the reason why I didn't
get help was, my dad shothimself in a psychiatrist,
office, right? And so I'm kindof like, well, What good's a
psychiatrist, you just killedhimself in your frickin office?
So, you know, I think there wasthat anger. And you know, that

(17:20):
I'll deal with it on my own. Butbut that anger at the
psychiatrists

if you were due?
Now, this is a question I'venever asked you before, but
it's, it's I'm not going to, youknow, some of these ones. I know
that I know, boundaries andthings like that. But if you
were to, when did your dad getback from Africa? ballpark? How
old? Were you? ballpark? Youwere 17 when he died? Let's say
let's make up that number.

Gavin (17:41):
Well, I mean, 70, you know, 7172? He would have been
what? Seven?

Seven? So this went on for six or seven or 10 years?
The the the the overall? Okay?
Yeah. And again, to the best ofyour ability. Like the was there
a progression in your as a as achild in that household with
your dad, you had a perceptionof him and then as it progressed
How did his personality changein? How did your father change

(18:14):
like in the house?

Gavin (18:17):
Well, you know, first off, he was on a lot of opioids,
Demerol, Percocet and codeine inPerm and codeine. I mean, we and
we were pill runners, myself andmy brothers turned out, we were
pill once he became more or lessbedridden. And, you know, he

(18:40):
still getting never wanted to bein a wheelchair would try to get
around and what Canadiancrutches I think they're called
Right. And, but he spent a lotof time in bed. And so, you
know, we would be pill runnersand, you know, get him a little
cinnamon, crispy things that hewould eat with when he take his
pills. And and he would yell, Imean, yeah, you know, he not

(19:08):
only did he physicallydegenerate a little bit, whether
it's the drugs or just theagony, and, you know, I didn't
understand it, at the time, tooyoung. And quite frankly, I
don't think anyone wouldunderstand it, let's say go
through it right old as well.
But the amount of pain he wasin, and, you know, obviously all
the drugs he was on to help withthat. You know, he I would say

(19:30):
dad, you know, try and, youknow, enjoy life. I mean, he had
tried to kill himself severaltimes before. And then I became
very detached. And of course,you know, again, mess with my
mind, you know, when I finallyforgave him after not talking to

(19:51):
him for you know, I don't know,three months, six months, you
know, shoots himself a monthlater. So yeah, they're a little
different story there, but Thepain he was in I would say, why
can't you appreciate the sunset?
Why can you appreciate this? Andhe damn near pulled out a hammer
and said, You know what? I'mgonna hit you on the leg. Why

(20:11):
don't you look at the sun andtell me how pretty it is.

And the difference between like, in a weird way,
it's it's weird when twoappropriate things meet. But I
think about to give a context ofwhat's the I think of it like a
wine pairing tannins we weretalking about today, right, and
our wine pairing. And so thetannins are appropriate to the

(20:35):
dark chocolate in the tanninsare appropriate to the
particular wine. And so heappropriately was an agony.
Yeah. And he probably would havebeen nails on a chalkboard
having an optimistic 17 or 16year old tell him like the
world's great dad. Yeah,exactly. And so both of those
people coming from veryappropriate places. But like we
found on that pairing, sometimesit doesn't work together in the

(20:55):
same conversation. And I thinkwith that kind of pain your dad
was going through. It takes alot to Trump parental kind of
nurturing and instincts. Butthat was the kind of pain and
then you have the all the youknow, he was in an altered state
because of the drugs that yeah,so and the other thing I think

(21:16):
that you need to get, we'vetalked about this a little bit
before, on the edge this wouldhave been years ago is that the
diet once you're in a familydynamic? So the difference
between you and Jason and Adamis what years going backwards?

Gavin (21:30):
Well, I mean, I'm two years older than my middle
brother, and four years or sixyears older than my youngest
brother, but there's

a there's a responsibility in being the
oldest there is. There's anotheryou, there's a little bit of a
buffer of well, you know, I felt

Gavin (21:43):
that. I mean, I thought I felt that I don't think my mom
necessarily wanted to burden mewith that. And I don't, in fact,
I say she didn't want to burdenme with that. But I kind of felt
a natural response, especiallyto my youngest brother who I was
six years older. I mean, youknow, I think he was oh, 910 11

(22:06):
Something like that. When my dadpassed, and, you know, he was
playing football I so I'd go outand film them. And, you know,
we'd review the film, and, youknow, he was the stud. Yeah, you
know, you know, trying to kindof, of course, I'll do that, you
know, gave him my peeweefootball jacket, he played for

(22:26):
the same peewee football team.
And, you know, so I really triedto help you know, Jason, you
know, my middle brother, he kindof just, you know, became very
introverted, and that's fine.
But you know, I wasn't, youknow, he was one grade above him
two years older. So it wasn'tlike he was going to look up to

(22:47):
exactly early. I

know, he's got the then another one. Let's go back
to our now that we're runningwith it. I kind of liked this.
I'll probably use it more now astannins, Jason brought his own
tannins to your tannins. And,you know, I mean, as that I had
the same thing with my brother,Todd, we just we don't mix. And
there's, it takes a lot longerfor you to establish some, it's
hard to respect your brother at16 and 18. Because there's so

(23:11):
many dynamics going on you kindof doing some what you would
perceive as some parentingfatherly sort of like things.
Most brothers are going tocompletely disregard that at 16.
Absolute doesn't have the valuein it.

Gavin (23:24):
Most 1617 year olds disregard their own father.
Exactly. We're real fun. So

yeah, you knew you were coming off the bench. Yeah,
you were coming off the bench. Iwas second string. And so it's
and I think, again, for you, Ithink you're right, you allude
to it, and maybe some of thesequestions will kind of bring it
up. But I do think it's, I dothink you have ownership of the
fact that you know that that wasa seismic shift. And that event,

(23:52):
probably predicated a lot of whoyou were going to be the rest of
your life. I would agree. Yeah.
And I think I was not too farbehind it that when I say five,
six years, but I wasn't too farfrom that event when you and I
kind of finally bumped into eachother. And so I think it was
sort of early on that game. AndI think you and I went through a
period of time in our early 20s,in particular, to different

(24:12):
places, but we did the breakerswas eventually sort of an
extension of college for almosteverybody that lived there.
Everyone was becomingprofessionals on the on what
they did eight to five everyday, but they were still very
much in a fraternity and asorority.

Gavin (24:32):
Well, when you have an apartment complex where you can
put your bar tab on your rent,and your bar tab turns out to be
more than your rent. I mean,yeah,

that that's really bad for the from the financial
standpoint of the residence.
Really good for a bartender

Gavin (24:51):
there for a bartender in an apartment complex. Yeah, that

they didn't it wasn't it was Monopoly money
there was there was more thanone time that I would serve. I
don't No three beers, and it wasabout 12 bucks. And it would be
with Tip 40 There you go. Butand so kind of like progressing
it forward, they I think he didactually, you know you did
overall really good job there tothat point then we kind of went
over the breakers sort ofhappens in your mid 20s after

(25:19):
school and things like that. Andthen for time purposes will kind
of go to the next big, bigchapter in your life, which was
you meet the girl?

Gavin (25:30):
Oh, well, absolutely the love of my life, the angel the
you know, as we both tell oneanother. She saved me. She says
I saved her. You know, it wasprobably a mutual thing. But
yeah, and she she's my angel.

Yeah, not too far behind us. Because we're 30 will
be 33. You just said at dinnerwhat what anniversary will be
coming up. 25 amazing. So nottoo far behind. It's just and
that's one thing. I do feel likewe did not share our childhood.
And we did not share High Schoolin college together. But this 34
year run we have shared it withit with that gap between our

(26:14):
kids ages and stuff. But nowwhen they get together, what's
the difference between 22 and26? Nothing. They've caught up
to each other in the perception.
But we did share that part ofit. We grew up together at the
breakers kind of grew out. Andthen we both had individually.
I'd met Stacy, you met Rosie.
And then life just happened. Didthe three decades of life
overall just happened andincluded that two beautiful

(26:36):
boys.

Gavin (26:37):
Yeah, twins, which I'll say raising twins. Not
necessarily listening to thedoctor, like let them cry
themselves to sleep. We didn'tdo that. And they turned out to
be an opposite sleepingschedules. First year there was
always someone awake in thehouse. Right. Right. You know,
either I was feeding one or shewas feeding one. But no. It was

(27:00):
you know, raising kids beingburied big challenge. I mean, we
definitely had our troughs. Butwe've certainly had our peaks as
well.

Yeah. And it's Trenton Darren. Yep. And I think
we've on this podcast talkedquite a bit about it comes up.
Eventually a lot of the roads,go back to our kids and Stacey
and I even at this point with a30 year old, a 26 year old and a
25 year old. We're always justamazed at we're Brian and Stacy

(27:30):
we always say we have this onesort of constant petri dish that
is the Upton family. And ourkids cannot be any different.
Yours gets even a little bitdeeper into the micro. You are
the writers, you had two kidsthat are twin boys. And they
can't be any more beautiful lydifferent.

Gavin (27:46):
Oh, there are it's amazing. 180 degrees, different
twins 180 degrees, and it's wellthey're they're fraternal,
they're not identical, right.
But even then, you know, they'refairly, pretty different.

It's remarkable, because I know twins. And and I
know, enough twins to know that.
There's quite a few that thatare very hard to tell apart
mannerisms of speaking generalpersonalities, then you look for
that one little tip, and thenyou're like, oh, that's that
guy. That's what that's thatgirl. Then there's the twins
that are a little bit different.
And then there's the writer boyswho are you're sitting in a

(28:19):
room, and it's just it's twodifferent boys raised by the
same parents in the sameenvironment. And they you
wouldn't know that. I guess it'sa compliment. Yeah,

Gavin (28:29):
well, I think the the one area, I think the most important
area that there's similar. Theregood people, we raised good
people. And you did you know, Idon't care if you're a doctor, I
don't care if you're acustodian. I don't care. You
know, whatever. I mean, thereare plenty of, you know,

(28:51):
lawyers, doctors, whatever that,you know, just aren't nice
people. Right. And, you know, Ijust figured if I raised nice,
kids are your biggest legacy. Imean, aside from this podcast,
finding, I'll have somethingthat will go down in history
forever, you know, in thearchives, Library of Congress.
Yeah. But aside from that kidsare your biggest legacy. And I

(29:15):
think I am so proud that Iraised to good humans,

there's no doubt and we kind of joke over my even
I think it's my own kids thathave said that at some point.
You know, in states havedefinitely talked about it. This
podcast started as a datechallenge, and it's become a
regular thing. And it's, it'sfor us, I think, eventually, let
me put it this way. Withouttalking about Gavin and Brian. I

(29:41):
would love it. If there was anaudio of my grandpa speaking for
45 minutes or an hour aboutfucking anything that existed in
the world about meaningfulthings the way he saw the world.
There I couldn't even put anumber on the value that would
have to me. Exactly. And that'sexactly I think this Thank you,
Brian. This will be anindication it's not it sounds

(30:02):
egotist so hard to walk aroundwithout sounding like it's about
you. But I think of it more likehow great would that be if that
was there for me, right and thisthe same guy this on this
podcast about honesty that Did Ido the very best job of always
staying in context, see mygrandparents all the time, like
I would know none of us do. Whenwe're really honest about work,

(30:24):
none of us are the best friendsor the best sons or the best
husbands or the best grandkidsoverall. But it really does hit
home in waves, sometimes not somuch what I didn't do with Pete,
that, you know, there's there'stimes where you just would like
to hear his voice or have atouchstone frame of reference
for who that person was. Andthat's kind of what today was,
was going to be about, you know,and we'll kind of get that good

(30:49):
time goes quick here, that was agood 30 minutes, we just did, I
want I think it's important Ican I can go with the thing I'm
going to say right now, rightout of the gate, but it'd be so
out of context. But now I feellike, you know, I want to get to
May 30, or June 1 of 2021. Andso we kind of get the sense of
this kid raised in Denver, youknow, family, you know, had had

(31:09):
like a lot of other people, youhad this real kind of like pivot
left turn unexpectedcircumstance, when you're a
teenager, kind of still muckthrough it, go to college, do
your thing. And then you youkind of get back into your
community, you meet the girl,you you get, you're married for
25 years, and you have twobeautiful kids right behind it.
And then the world changes justcoming up on about two years

(31:32):
ago, like right, and like may30. June 1, I think was around
the time and take it away alittle bit as far as like what
that what the week or the weekwas leading up to it. And then,
you know, the news you got?

Gavin (31:44):
Well, so I'll just say this, one of the my wife and I
have traveled and done a lot ofthings. One of the best
vacations that I didn't want togo on, was actually the previous
March of 2021. Right after a lotof stuff had been closed because
of COVID. My wife and I had hadCOVID and this was before the

(32:06):
vaccines. Yeah. And she wantedto go to Orlando to Harry Potter
World. Yeah. Universal. Yeah, itbecause she was depressed with
with COVID and the locks on andI said, Fine, we'll go. And they
pretty much just open everythingwas just kind of really those
Musement parks and stuff wereopening. So that March we went

(32:27):
turned out to be one of the bestvacations we'd had. I didn't
necessarily want to go. Youknow, she's huge Harry Potter
fan, but a lot of fun. Well,what made it even more fun was
in that end of April, very endof April. found out I had
cancer. And when when the Well,I had had some digestive issues.

(32:53):
And so I finally ended upgetting a CT scan and when the I
guess it'd be the PA called me.
And she was tearful on thephone. Not something you ever
want to hear from a doctor, youknow, nurse practitioner, no.
And she said, you have cancer.

(33:14):
I'm like, Well, my brother hadprostate cancer, and he's good.
You know? So, like, okay, yeah,running 20 miles. Good. Yeah.
Right. So, you know, okay, andwe'll, we'll deal with it.
problem was I didn't understandthe extent after the CT scan.
And as it turned out, my wallethad to do a colonoscopy, and

(33:37):
they couldn't even do a fullone. It was so, you know, cancer
riddled or the tumor was so big.
I couldn't get through it.
couldn't cut it out. Because itwas embedded in there. Were
afraid they, you know, bursted,I guess, could really go
everywhere. Well, of course, ithad gone everywhere. It's in my
lungs, it's in my liver. Youknow, both lobes of my lungs,

(33:57):
75% of my liver. And I was giventhree to six months to live,
right. And when they did thegenetic testing to see if they
can do you know, cancertherapies, they have a lot of
great therapies targeted. Turnedout I had kind of a guess K RAS
wild is what I was hoping for. Iguess you can call it 8k RAS

(34:22):
maybe. I don't know if you callit negative. I call it K RAS
team only. That's not the nameof it. Right. But uh, you know,
I guess the way the doctordescribed it, you know, with
with COVID They always show thatpicture with the spikes. Yeah.
My cancer was a soap bubble.
There were no spikes. And Iguess that's what they, you
know, if there were had targetedtherapies, they need to attach

(34:45):
those spikes where there werenot spikes to attach to it.
Right. So she came back andsaid, Well, we can try chemo.
Not sure it's going to work. Itcould get kind of ugly. You
know, do you Want to try it? Ordo you just want to have the
best three to six months? Youknow, to get well said, I'm
going to try it. I mean, itmight as well I mean, yeah, it

(35:06):
turned out great decision. Cuzthe chemo worked and the
original chemo I think it wascalled
FOLFOX. And I didn't I my bodyseemed to tolerate it pretty
well.

And let's let's lift this a little bit of a
tease for this is where I can doa little bit of teasing a guy
with fucking stage four cancer.
That's the real number eight.
But the reason I think even thatby the second question that I
had put together over the lastcouple of months, it kind of
gets into that. But I think togive them the scope of what
we're looking at with this allnew for all of us, you know,

(35:44):
when you called and told me, Iremember, I was parking my car
after work, and you call up andtold me before the first numbers
came back, you would call meright after that story you just
told you told me and it justfelt like the world was kind of
caving in. And in my world asfar as this you're not hearing
what you're hearing. You know,that's me sitting in California
looking at the ocean, I'm notyou. But I do know we got very

(36:07):
kind of queued up from Rosieearly and often on sort of what
we were looking for on thosefirst numbers coming back. And I
think it was a ca or ch ca. CaCa in the thing that was
staggering that week was andI'll never forget it was on my
birthday. But we kind of knewwhat we were what was being run.
And we knew that anything overlike four or five was basically

(36:28):
treatment kind of things. And Ithink rose called back and
couldn't get the words out onthe phone. She was crying so
hard, but I think it was 480something

Gavin (36:36):
one 480 It was it was there was a force. Oh, yeah, it
was I want to say is like around424 25. Something like that.
That's 120 What

the fuck that it's more than four? Oh, yeah. Yeah,
it was it was it was it wasstaggering, because I think we
kind of you're sitting thereGoogling, you're trying to find
out what is what is. And I thinkin my mind, I'm thinking like,
you know, it sounds like it'severywhere. It sounds terrible.
What are we going to hear? We'regoing to hear eight, are we
going to hear 15? Are we gonnahear 12? Now, you know that four
is this bad number. And when youcall and said for 20, whatever

(37:06):
the number was, it was it wasdevastating. You know, and it
was a it was a devastatingnumber. But then, like you said,
we weren't privy to the nextpart, which is that we just got
that information. And that'swhen you're seeing the
conversation about you know, golive your life for 90 days
happen.

Gavin (37:22):
Yeah, yeah. And, and we you know, Rose started booking
these trips, I call themcarrots. And what's funny is I
kind of even

bucket let's I'm gonna jump to questions. Go
ahead. No, I'm saying this isperfect. It's, it's a classic
question. Some of these onesI've just done some research on.
We'll blow through these, someof them will linger on some
quick answers. But I think thefirst one, we'll we'll go to
number three. First, it says ifyou found out the world was
ending in a year, or 90 days,how would you spend your time

(37:59):
now just keep telling me exactlywhat you were just talking about
as far as what you

Gavin (38:02):
slept with, with your wife? What's that? Like I told
you if the world was ending

that 3812 edit. So if you found out the world was
ending in a year, how would youspend your time and it can
include Stacey?

Gavin (38:24):
Well, you know, luckily, with my family

right now, I think this is the segue for you to
kind of keep going right whereyou left off, which was like it.
This is such a bullshit questionfor people because we ask these
questions on card games with ourfriends on a Friday night at a
brew. Who would you do if youhad a year left? You had 90 days
left and it turned into more butyou you, you 80 days? Yeah, but
you're a rare person. Thisquestion is happening. You're

(38:48):
sitting here, you got thisdiagnosis nearly two years ago,
if you found out that you didfind out the world was ending in
a year. And then talk aboutlike, what you guys as a couple
and particularly rose did?

Gavin (39:00):
Well, you know, you're not gonna get the answer you
want, I don't think but I'mtrying to be as truthful as I
can. And I'm trying to actuallyremember back to that diagnosis.
I mean, first off, you're kindof numb. So I don't think the
scope hit me probably hit mywife worse because she had a
friend die of cancer before. Soit really affected her me I was

(39:24):
kind of like, you know, I'mgonna do chemo and you know,
whatever. But the biggest thingthat I remembered like 90 days
to live or whatever, I guess Ijust didn't think that way. But
what, what what came across themost was living each moment,
being in the moment. Noticingjust how green the grass was at

(39:48):
the time or it was coming inspring. And just

was that from day one? Or did you like when you
first heard it? I know itblurred out a little bit. But
once you knew what washappening, it shows chemo When
was the first part? I'm going tobeat this shit? Or was it
immediately start seeing thegreen grass? Which Which came
first? Was it?

Gavin (40:07):
Well, I was told I couldn't beat it. Okay, I was
told out. Even if I'm on chemo,it's palliative care. It's just
buying time. Yeah, there's nobeating this, right? So that's
what I was told. Now, beingalive almost, almost two years
later. You know, I'm like, Well,shit, maybe I can really get

(40:30):
some time out to be like,beating it. But no, so at that
moment, it really you know,people talk about life flashing
before their eyes. I startedhaving memories of past stuff,
you know, being really little,you know, old friends. Yeah. You
know, again, the sky is bluer.
Grass Is Greener, I can hearalmost every bird chirping. I

(40:52):
mean, you become really in themoment. And what a gift it is
and what a gift from God what agift to really kind of I don't
want to say see God, but see thewonder that he created and, and
just how beautiful the Earth is,if you don't even believe in

(41:13):
God, right moment, and justnotice how beautiful. You know,
this planet is beautiful, youknow, everything, you know, take
that moment be in the momentoutside of the hustle and bustle
and that that was the firstthing in the first three to six
months. But you know, goingthrough a lot of chemo

(41:33):
treatments like chemo everyother week for the last two
years, basically every otherweek.

How many? What's the number of treatments right
now? 3941?

Gavin (41:42):
Yeah, I'm up in my 40s. I stopped counting.

I think I had less I clocks was a 30 Nights. It's
got to be in the low 40s. Yeah.
And so and then that was yourtake on it the. And then rose
did kind of an amazing thing,though. In that those first
couple months of I still thinkit's amazing that faced with a
90 day sort of window. Shestarted booking shit for the
next year.

Gavin (42:06):
Yeah, well, I mean, it started to with, honestly, that
summer, I can't remember if itwas June or July. We got a lot
of people for I don't want tocall it a, we'll call it a
living wake.

I remember, I can't believe I'm not gonna say I
forgot it. But that was one ofthe first things so there was an
urgency to that. And we kind ofput that together well, and

Gavin (42:27):
I'm like, why wait to have a party when I'm not there.
I mean, let's have a party whileI'm there. Right and see some
old friends. And it turned out.
It was awesome.

It was amazing. It was it was it was I think there
was no we weren't trying todress it up as anything else.
Other than that, that thisbecause we were living in that
90 Day moment. At that point. Ireally felt like

Gavin (42:50):
someone gave me a cool t shirt as far as like

that was oh yeah, we made up a little there was
that the fuck? Gavin says fuckcancer. So yeah, those those.
But that that was a particularlygood day, because it was a lot
of old friends. Some of ushadn't seen each other in 20
years. But it wasn't a weweren't tiptoeing around it, we
really thought. I think a lot ofus felt like in particular, some
of those people from a logisticstandpoint, felt like that was

(43:15):
gonna be the last one, you know,and here we are quite a bit
later. And so rose basically, Ithink, just went in there. And
she, I think she startedscheduling some of these these
big, broad bucket list kind oftrips.

Gavin (43:30):
And I guess the biggest one, I remember we were living
in Vail at the time waiting forour new apartment to be finished
driving down for treatment. Youknow, staying with my mom for
the few days, I was intreatment. And she booked up a
big trip. It basically wouldhave been the year after our

(43:50):
diagnosis. And then of course,he booked another trip it turned
out prior to that which Pariswhich was a great family trip
over Christmas break. But orspring break, I guess but yeah,
but that one she booked for ayear out and I just kind of
laughed at her and I said whoare you going to take? I'm like,
I'm not gonna make it a year.
Like, you know, don't you don'thave to lie to me just you know,

(44:14):
let me know. Yeah. Now

kind of feels like you're rubbing it in my face.
Yeah, exactly.

Gavin (44:21):
Yeah, I always wanted to go there. Yeah, and then sure,
shit. Sure shit. We went toTahiti when we started in
Hawaii, took a did a cruisearound the islands and then took
a four day boat ride to theTahitian islands. It was
awesome.

Yeah. And then in here we are doing the Mexican
and Caribbean in December. Wheredo you go in December for that
cruise?

Gavin (44:44):
Yeah. New Year's cruise.
That was the Caribbean.

And now here we are on the Mexican Riviera
yarborough's? Yeah, just it justa The thing I'm stunned with now
that I've been on a cruise forthe first time in 20 something
years again is the I came intothis fairly healthy feeling
pretty good about myself. Butthese are tiring. Cruises are,
by default from from, they'revery relaxing but they're taxing

(45:09):
also, you know they can be theycan be a little bit taxing and
so I think it's even moreimpressive not not just that
you, you know the land Paristrip, ocean Tahiti, ocean
Caribbean ocean Mexican Riviera,it's impressive for a dude
that's in his 41st treatment ofchemo that, you know, and still
rocking out the excursions andstuff like that. But this one

(45:31):
has been a lot of fun. I thinkit's this this, this sort of
like a lot of people I think,would dream of doing a world
tour, and you're actually doinga world tour kind of, and I
think it's pretty impressive.
So, alright, we're gonna have alittle bit of fun. Now we're
going to kind of go throughthese ones. Some of these ones
might be the, you know, oneoffs, if you don't feel like

(45:52):
talking about it, just say itand we can move on. But they're
there they go from meaninglessto meaningful, you know, but
some of these ones, I justwanted to, I kind of thought
these would be questions thatI'd want to hear from you. You
know, what, what a firstquestion is just simply what? Is
there a book that's had thebiggest impact on your life? Do
you have a single book thatimpacted your life at all?

Gavin (46:12):
I've had a few. And I would, I'd saved them for my
kids. I actually have a littlemust read pile. And there were,
I considered five must reads. Ithink I can't remember the fifth
one now. I think I got for TheFountainhead. And Rand. Yep. I
think that was very influential.

How so? For you,

Gavin (46:33):
for me, you know, I think one of the biggest things I took
away was how the media canaffect people. You know, there
was a newspaper, architectural,what do you call a critic, and
he didn't like this architect.
And, you know, it's been a whilesince I read the book. But, you

(46:54):
know, my biggest takeaway washow someone in the media and
again, this book, I think, waswritten in the 50s, late 40s,
early 50s. And it's so you know,media. And today, I mean, even
with so much media, the pointseven more important, so,

kind of a little bit different track, but a
little Orwellian. As far as whatabsolutely, yeah, that's
amazing. And so

Gavin (47:19):
And of course, that's the other book, I'd say George
Orwell 1984 at that, so

Fountainhead goes on my list. I've never read it.
Yeah, you need to read and Ithink I think I've enjoyed it.
And

Gavin (47:27):
it's an rants not Atlas Shrugged, which was, that's a
tough book to get through. Thisone's shorter. And I think much
more enjoy.

Was there a Fountainhead revisited, too? Was
there a second book? Or is itnot that I know? I'm just
curious, I don't know why thatpopped in my head. So then we go
on to one I have read, which was1984. Yeah. Why similar? Similar
as far as? or different,different? How did that how did
that hit you a different way?

Gavin (47:55):
Well, I mean, 1984 is more kind of about, I think,
control, and kind of, you know,government versus people, that
kind of thing. And so, you know,again, most of these books I
read either in high school or incollege or just after college.

(48:17):
And, you know, they all kind ofhave a similar ban. I think, you
know, you got to be reallycareful about government. There
was another book, it can'thappen here. I want to say the
author, once it's Alex Huxley,but I can't remember if that's
right. Or if I'm getting thisone of your former teachers that

(48:38):
a reference Oh, that's a mustread. That's a must read. And
it's again today. I think it'svery germane. It's about how
America turns into Nazi Germany.
But it's our own governmentdoing it by how they vote in
Congress and whatnot. Right. Andso, you know, for people that
feel like maybe our country'sgoing down to not only a wrong
path, but an extremely wrongpath. You know, there there's a

(49:01):
book that's kind of germaneagain, written probably in the
50s. Yeah. And and so then, ofcourse, the other one brave new
world in which if you reallythink about abortion, and when
does life begin? You know, thatthat is so germane with you? No,
no, no one has babies as theygrow babies, and incubators from

(49:24):
the word go exactly. So womenit's considered unheard of if
you actually carried a kidright? So and of course, there's
an answer to the abortionquestion right there if we ever
got that technology to actuallygrow kids, you know, but then of
course, when does life beginthat's

is that and when you say your, I guess the you
know, going to the question sothose are the four books right
now right so brave new world howdid that affect you? Like is
when you read it cuz I think thething is like it in those are
good. I think we can verdict onOrwell, we covered it on Rand.
But as far as brave new worldgetting just to kind of go past

(50:07):
the question we'll move on hereis how did it have an impact on
you?

Gavin (50:12):
Well, it's a love story.
And but honestly, I think thebiggest impact would be kind of
you know, I took a medicalethics class in college and
everything and I think I readthat book in once a high school,
but basically that book is to meand I need to reread all these

(50:32):
these like I said, I read allthese long time ago but to me
that that really kind of the itreally it's just so germane to
the abortion argument. And kindof, you know, When does life
begin, you know, what do youconsider life i plus it also the

(50:53):
caste system, you know, they inBrave New World, you know,
again, their kids are in theirincubators growing but, but kind
of like India with their castesystem, they pour more than
pneumonia into like the workerbee. Right deal. And then
remember that of the other deal.

(51:14):
So, you know, it had kind of a,you know, big social context to
on, you know, whether, you know,a caste systems and gentry and
all that stuff. So,

good stuff, the mu which one I want to ask you
next? This is a fun one, youknow, this is one that I think
this one, we won't linger on toolong, but I think it's one that
might be helpful, you know, forto hear and kind of expand on
what lie Do you tell yourselfthe most often?

Gavin (51:44):
Damn good looking.

You look in the mirror, and you're like, God
damn,

Gavin (51:48):
look at I'm smoking hot.
The hips?

You know? That's actually pretty good one. So you
are going to keep that oneshort. It's I'm trying to think
of, for me, I think the one thatI think I've answered this
before with Stacy, not on thepodcasts, but I think in a game
with the kids is it's very kindof irrelevant to this podcast
is, I think, if I were to, ifthere were a running statistical

(52:12):
record of it, it's that I havetime. And I and I'm the guy that
you know, that we in, that getsto the Greengrass that gets to
those ones, because I might notbe thinking of it as a lie. I'm
not necessarily seeing grasssneaking off, fuck, I live
forever. What I'm saying is I'mnot stopping in that moment. So
I'm lying to myself that I'llhave time tomorrow to look at
it. And, and so I think if I hadthe biggest lie, you know, that
that, you know, kind ofdominates the others. It's, and

(52:36):
I think a lot of us are doingthat in theoretically, it
hopefully doesn't take a stagefor everything to see some green
grass.

Gavin (52:44):
Yeah, in because well, there is a little bit of truth
in what you said. But we'll justthis, you know, I would say,
tell anyone, really take amoment enjoy life, you know,
enjoy life as much as you can.
But you know, because you neverknow you. As my wife says, I get
hit by she can get hit by acement truck tomorrow. This boat

(53:06):
could have tipped over lastnight. Exactly. And it was a
little rough.

There was more than rough. And then we woke up this
morning. And there were pukebags on every single staircase,
I think got more than a littlerough. But

Gavin (53:19):
But yeah, you don't want to kind of get crazy with that
either. You know, don't beirresponsible, and you know,
rack up your credit card or, youknow, think I need to take a
trip that I can't afford. But atthe same time. This this is a
truism. I think I've kind ofknown but it's more so true to
me now. There is no perfect timeto do anything. That's right. I

(53:41):
mean, you know, people say I'mwaiting for the perfect time to
get married, there will be noperfect time, you know, maybe
you might want to get your bankaccount somewhat in order. But,
you know, a lot of people, theirbank accounts are never an
order. So, I mean,

and I think I think that that's a very specific
thing. But I think it's a reallygood point you made because it
makes me think of we use thatthere's going to be a better
time for this on a lot ofthings. And some of them can
actually just be sort of blackand white, like financial
issues. Like it's not a goodtime for me to start carving
away and saving save forretirement now because we're

(54:19):
just really pressed down withbills instead of thinking about
what can we do to basicallydecrease our bills and start
doing at the same time we kindof talk ourselves into it's not
a good time for me to carve outYeah,

Gavin (54:28):
I'm just saying timing, you know, timings everything.
But, you know, in certainthings, there's just there's no
perfect time. And, you know,with life, just enjoy it. But
But enjoy the simple thingsbecause they're there, they're
free, you know, hold yourgirlfriend's hand, hold your
wife's hand. You know, the, thelook at the grass, look at the

(54:53):
trees, listen to the birds. Imean, that's what I that's what
I've taken away. That's the giftand I said, Yep, that's the gift
I was given with my diagnosis.
Yeah.

And I and I've seen it. And I think you've been a
more thoughtful person. Not thatyou weren't before. But we do.
We've always, we've alwaystended to eventually find our
ways one of every fiveconversations to something
deeper in our history of ourlife. But I think there's not
that they become five, five deepand meaningful, but we, we do, I

(55:25):
think, lean towards a little bitmore curation of our
conversations. Now, knowingthere's a, there's, like, we
started the podcast, there's aparticular elephant in the room.
That is the that's just beinghonest, there is a there is a
ticking time clock on ourrelationship. And it's, it's, it
took me it took me as a person,I'm still processing, I'm not in

(55:48):
denial about it. But it's just adaily sense of processing. Like,
it's something there's timeswhere it seems very real in
science, where it doesn't seempossible that this could this,
this part could end

Gavin (55:58):
well. But here's the fun thing about that, again, three
to six months, I was given,we're coming up on two years. I
think that's proof right there.
You never know. Now my, youknow, my expiration date. As far
as I'm concerned, it's beenextended, you know, I'm kind of
here at God's pleasure,whatever. But, you know, here,
it was so dire, I had doctorscrying, you know, social workers

(56:21):
coming in. And it was, I'm like,what, you know, kind of weird,
but, you know, but now it's kindof the opposite end. It's like,
I hopefully I can keep going andgoing and going until I can't.
But but that's just it, youknow, then you have people where
your dad goes to work one daygets hit by a cement truck and

(56:44):
doesn't come home. Exactly. Soyou just don't know site,
please, you know, enjoy yourfamily, enjoy your friends.
Enjoy nature, you know, that'sthose are the probably the three
big ones that are right therethat are easy.

And that that's that's on the let's go on this
next questions. Pretty goodsegue because I think we just
covered sort of the heavy thesome meaningful things that what
you can do to make yourselfhappy on a daily basis what
other people can do to possiblyextend it, but on a on a simple
question is over your life. Inparticular, your adult life, I

(57:23):
guess this would be meaningfulis what do you do on a daily
basis that that makes you feelgood now this part is one that's
a little bit more getting toknow you a little bit and, you
know, for me, it's that might besomething like a first cup of
coffee in the morning and likeyo, Ali, these different daily
habits, not necessarily whatwe're doing. But those little
things is like, like that wasthat was great again, and it's

(57:43):
the 1000s 10 1000s time you'vedone something that gives you
like a real sense of just likejoy, masturbation, masturbation.
Is that every day?

Gavin (57:52):
Well, you kind of set it I mean, you know, every day,
what do you enjoy?

I mean, so you're saying that I only met I don't
mean what enough over your overyour adult life, I'm really see
your adult life would bebasically I'm going to do easy
numbers. 33. I'm coming up with10,500 times you've masturbate
in your adult life. And thatdoesn't count. That's that's
your adult life. From 14 to 18.
It was 27,000 times. Yeah. Andso well, I guess we're gonna I

(58:19):
really thought it was going tobe a little bit more, but I
think there's gonna be a lot ofpeople that are probably going
to agree with you on that one. Idon't know if they can meet the
reps. I don't know. If there'sanybody on the planet that's
going to be able to meet thereps of daily but you know what,
it's right now officially,officially. I think we can say

(58:39):
that we are doing your I knowyou're trying to fight to get
into a case study. But I thinkI'm feeling I'm ready to present
that on a 90 day stage forcancer diagnosis. Daily
masturbation can extend yourlife 9010 times. Yeah. There you
go. There you go. Here's aninteresting one. This is more.

(59:00):
This is one a little bit more.
Let's go to brave new world. Nowon this question. If there were
a way to download all of yourmemories to a searchable
spreadsheet, would you do it?

Gavin (59:17):
That's That's what made you think of that question.

All of your memories. I'm fascinated by
artificial intelligence andsimulations and the eventually
singularity merging with ourtechnology that if that was
there, theoretically, there's afuture time where I'm talking
all of your memories, even likethat fucking joke about
masturbation in our littlestories on a Friday night. Let's
say it's all in there. You and Iare connected because we have

(59:42):
this massive Rolodex of framesof references, common history
friends, and so they don'talways all tie in, but it makes
some shit really funny becausewe have all of this history. And
so when you're gone,theoretically, what I'll have is
these, these myths moments, butI won't have my partner in crime
to remember some of the missingmoments, you know. And so that

(01:00:04):
would be the reason I asked thisquestion. So I'm obsessed with
it. And I'm not I'm not evenfully sure. I myself would do
this. But I'm obsessed with theconcept of your consciousness
being uploaded?

Gavin (01:00:15):
Well, I think it goes back to legacy. I mean, I'd love
to leave a legacy and kind ofwhat you said, you know, kids,
grandkids, great grandkids. Thatwould be cool. And that might be
cool. But I'm not sure I'd wantto leave everything. I mean,
there's some things I don't wantmy wife to know about much less,

(01:00:37):
especially with progeny,especially with a quick search.
Exactly. Yeah. So you know, Imean, we all have our little
secrets. And I would adviseeveryone to keep those little
secrets. But no, you know what,I'm pretty honest and open. But
I mean, there's some stuff evenyou know, that my wife would be
fine with that. Not sure my kidswould be fine with so, you know,

(01:00:59):
if there was something that, youknow, in all seriousness, they
can type in and upload, youknow, if it's everything, I'd
probably say no. The other thingI would say no to kind of that
kind of leans into what you'reasking, that's why I asked you,
you know, would you downloadyour consciousness into a
computer and kind of liveconsciously, digitally? And I

(01:01:22):
would say, No, a lot of people.
Let's put it this way. I don'twant to live forever. If someone
said, If you could you if youcould live forever, would you?
I'd say no. I think at somepoint, maybe I'd live longer.
Maybe I'd like to live longer.
But at some point, I think weneed to leave this earth or this

(01:01:43):
realm or, and move on, you know,but yeah, I'm one of those
people that I in this beforecancer. Yeah, no, I wouldn't
want to live forever. And Iwouldn't want I certainly don't,
I certainly don't wanteverything downloaded. I'd like
to keep a few secrets. I think Imean, fact I don't do social

(01:02:06):
media, I think kind of says thatas well.

Brian Upton (01:02:08):
And I think the there's a saying there sayings
exist, and they exist for veryparticular reasons. But
sometimes they can be used inother ones. It's that Be careful
what you asked for. Andsometimes the, in this
particular instance, be carefulyou ask for is if it was as this
question presented, everything,everything. There could be

(01:02:29):
potentially, sometimes wereelevated in memory. And I think
in a potential world where youhave every single thought
available search, it could begreat point greatly diminished
rate

Gavin (01:02:40):
point. I mean, you know, even though my dad, you know, We
butted heads the oldest, youknow, not everything was
copacetic. But now, you know,30, you know, almost by his 40
Almost years later, I most allmy memories are very fond
memories. You know, I'd hate tohave to go back. Oh, yeah, I

(01:03:02):
forgot about that shitty day, orOh, yeah, I forgot about that.
And so

I know exactly what I don't want. I don't want to
have like, be married Stacy for62 years, then pull up her
memories from like, June17 1996. and have her memory
say, you fucking loser Brian.
Exactly. Right. Yeah, it's soand he would say, but what I'm
saying is like, there's momentsthat are a transitional. And I
think also some fleeting momentsthat that you might be you might

(01:03:26):
be turning me on this a littlebit, as far as I think like I
knew what answer you want. Andmy first thought always is the
one is like, I don't care put itout there. But I think the other
one would be this one. I guessthis one. I'm really good at
this stage. But it's a realelite to deal with you. If you
could second if you could have asecond chance at one event in
your life. What would youchoose?

Gavin (01:03:50):
Oh my god. A second chance edit event? I honestly,

I have one and I don't think it breaks the time
space continuum because that'sthe that's the fear right? The
fear is redoing an event changesthe kind of like

Gavin (01:04:09):
the I think you were talking more about regrets. I

mean, I think so if you if you could have a second
chance at one event in yourlife, what would you choose?

Gavin (01:04:20):
I'm kind of the I want to answer this question. I'm just
drawing a blank of course I'msure there'd be a number of
things.

I think you told me and this is the one I'm making a
few the you told me that youlaid over your gut issues for a
long time and went by a lot ofopportunities for screening that
I think casually say seven yearsago if on that like we all get
when we're 5049 I think you thisgets this gets not emotional for

(01:04:48):
me anymore, but it does change.
It's like it the list is too fargone. Now the amount of people
that I've got to do screeningsbecause of your diagnosis.

Gavin (01:04:56):
I think we I know my wife, I think we've had 16 or 17
People that have found polyps,so that have gone and gotten,
including this guy exams becauseof me. So, you know, again,
praise the Lord. But here's thequestion. You know, because you
say, yeah, that's, that's theone that's easy one, I go change

(01:05:19):
that go back in time. So thatmeans 16 People die. Because
they don't get an exam.

But he just, that's a mindfuck. Right? I mean, in
your my circumstance, it wouldbe. My first thought is like, I
don't know those people. So I'lljust take you on the Mexican
Riviera, we wouldn't be hereeither, you know, because we
will be doing different things.
We wouldn't be here right now.
But I think that's a veryinteresting take on it, you
know, like, and I think it'ssomething that you've said

(01:05:50):
already over the last coupleyears that you you, you carry a
tremendous amount of weight whenI let you know that I've had a
conversation with sometimes astranger. It works its way into
a conversation that I'm notcarrying a banner for. But it
naturally works its way in evento a new friend, old friends. It
kind of comes across

Gavin (01:06:06):
well, well, in again to that's the gift. Again, people.
I feel like I've been blessedwith cancer. I feel like my two
years have been blessed arealmost two years. And I'm not
sure why. And I keep tellingLord, let me get a you're
keeping me here longer and I'msupposed to be what am I

(01:06:28):
supposed to be doing? Maybe I'mdoing it? Maybe I've done it.
Maybe I've saved some of thosepeople or go on and cure cancer
or do something.

Yeah, because you can't know. So let's say this
this only because my littlegroup you know, everybody's got
their little rose obviously, asfriends families that this is
expand who knows how many testsin there because of this event.
And it? It does. It does make itfeel instead of the vast
wasteland of waiting to die. Itdoes make you feel like here. We

(01:07:01):
already talked about what yourlife was who you were as a kid
all of these things, but it ismeaningful. It's meaningful that
you your diagnosis in thatlittle story. It does give you a
little bit of a tangible reasonwhy I was here.

Gavin (01:07:18):
Hey, I had a lot of fun in my life. I've done pretty
much almost everything anyonecould want to do this putting it
lightly. Yeah, this is the mostmeaningful stuff I've probably
done. And it's kind of cool.

It is it's a it's a in United Sports kind of junkies
about it but it's sort of thisit's sort of this no timeouts
left kind of last minute drivefor the score thing we don't
feel like you've in the last thescore here is being able to find
meaning within these last weekturned out to be 90 days coming
up on two years now is insteadof just doing the treatment

(01:07:56):
traveling to these amazingplaces. You kind of have found
the as you using your word ofblessing within it, which is
that's not easy to do.

Gavin (01:08:05):
Oh, I've been blessed so many times over in these last
you know what, 18 months so far.

I will take two questions are going to kind of
bring it down a little biteasier. Against this one. I some
of these ones I picked up neverfucking I don't know. Okay, it's
like if you could be I'll tryand answer you could be any
animal what animal would youchoose to be? It's not the kind
of question two dudes asked eachother when we're, we don't break
down the game on Sunday. GavinHey, before you go, what? What

(01:08:32):
animal would you like to be? Sowhat is it some free

Gavin (01:08:36):
and soft? No, actually, I think I know that eagle. Why? I
always like flying. I alwayswanted to be a fighter pilot. I
did get my pilot's license butyou know, I'd say almost any
bird you know Seagull, evenpelicans. I love the way they
kind of coast along the arrogantFalcon fabulous bird. Yeah, I

(01:09:00):
mean fun. But you know eaglesare majestic. They're big.
They're the most badass bird outthere. I mean, if I want to be a
bird, I want to be the mostbadass bird.

If Gavin Reiter now forget the the fantasy nature of
this question, if you could haveyour name associated with any
piece of art in the history ofthe world painting music, what
would you choose? Now remember,this isn't you taking it from
somebody else? This would bepart of this would just be a fun
fundamental part of like, ohyeah, by the way, he went to

(01:09:32):
Kent Denver. He was a manage hismoney really well. And he's a
proud father and he also paintedthe Mona Lisa.

Gavin (01:09:39):
So you're asking me if I painted something anything music
created muse? Like take creditfor someone that

take credit. It just would be yours. You got to
break the seal on a little bitlike it did. Basically, we'll
find out what's your favoritepiece of art in the history of
the world and what like if youcould basically have your name
on a piece of art, what would itbe?

Gavin (01:09:58):
Wow. So you got to narrow these down.

Because that, you know, too broad like mine would
be Yeah, mine would be.

Gavin (01:10:03):
I mean, I'm thinking all sorts of things. I'm

not even religious anymore. But I think I'd really
like to be the the Brian Upton,I went to school played some
football, ran a toy business onthe credit card, you know,
purchasing agency, commerciallandscape maintenance
management, I own a magazine.
Oh, and there was at one time inthe middle like the I made the
Sistine Chapel. That's thecenter. That would be and again,

(01:10:30):
not taking credit was just like,there was something I did
between like 1998 and 2004. Ibuilt this assisting,

Gavin (01:10:37):
I was gonna say by yourself, but it's still being
built right doesn't matter, justas right in the door, you know,
put your stamp your name onsomething that says Gavin
Reiter, and you're not taking

anything for anybody. That's the fun part of
the questions.

Gavin (01:10:54):
Wow, I don't know. I mean, I'd have to think about
that. I'm sure there's a rightanswer and a perfect answer.

We'll come back to it. But let's do a little I'll
let it percolate for him. Yeah,that's fine. And because this
one might I'm gonna blow throughthis when he said I thought this
one would hit a little bit more,kind of gets into the Trenton
Darren one because they're stillyoung. And there's also this is
that one of those questions, Ithink I have a sense of where
you'll go, but maybe not if youcould tell your younger Gavin
self something. What that thatwould that would land? What

(01:11:24):
would you tell your youngerself?

Gavin (01:11:28):
Oh, you know, and I've told my son's is be happy. You
know, I have a son, you know, hewants to be a billionaire. Well,
hey, that's awesome. I thinkeveryone wants to be a
billionaire. Now. Are youwilling to put in the work?
Sometimes it's timing, sometimesit's the idea. You know, but

(01:11:48):
even if you are a billionaire,doesn't mean you're gonna be
happy. You know, I had a brotherwho had a lot of money. He
wasn't happy, right? So you knowthat that's why I tell my, my
kids, be a good person, behappy. That's all I asked for.
That's my legacy kind of talkedabout that earlier. That's what

(01:12:12):
I would tell anyone, you know,but you got to sustain yourself.
But, you know, I've known somepeople that, you know, they make
just enough to eat just enoughto, you know, have their place.
They live on a surfboard. Right?
They're some of the happiestpeople on the planet.

And I know you and I talked about this, I probably
drilled it in this this specialepisode. So it's a little
different. But there's, there'sthe the sun people of Southern
Africa, you and I might havejust talked about this are the
original kind of human culturefrom like 48 52,000 years ago.
And one of their there stillexists today, just only hundreds

(01:12:49):
left. But they're they'vecarried the story of their
culture forward. And one of thefundamentals that they believe
in is that there's a lot ofAboriginal kind of thought is
that there's two paths toprosperity. And one of them is
the accumulation, we can saywell, but accumulation of
things, let's call it and theother one is simply wanting
less. And they both get to thesame place. And they're not

(01:13:12):
exclusive of each other. It whatI'm saying is like it that one,
you can't just choose one pathor the other. But semblances of
those two paths can get you tothat same place of being happy.
And I think I'm reading a littlebit at NTU is like, you can
choose the billionaire path,let's say, but if you think
that's gonna give youcontentment, it's not a
guarantee, I'm not saying itcan't happen. It's not a
guarantee, you can choose justnot playing the man's game. It's

(01:13:36):
not guaranteed, you'll be happynot playing the game. But
there's, there's a there'schances in both of those ones
that sometimes it might be, youknow, finding, I think, for both
of those to end up in that onespace, you kind of need to find
yourself.

Gavin (01:13:51):
Well, you just reminded me some happiness isn't a thing,
you know, it has no. I mean, youcan be miserable if you can't
get, you know, health care orhealth or whatever. But really,
happiness is a state of mind.
You either choose to be happy,or you don't. And yeah, there

(01:14:12):
are a lot of obstacles in allour lives. I've been blessed. I
don't have as many as I'm sure alot of people do. But I've also
seen many people that have somuch more money than I do. And
they're miserable, right? And sothat has nothing to do with it.

(01:14:36):
And I've seen people that aredirt poor, that are happy
because they choose to be

this was a long time ago. But I remember this is
a loose kind of story. And Idon't think it throws anybody
necessarily under the busbecause it was so transitional,
but I won't give it a timeframebut it meant a lot to me when
you said it. We were at abirthday party for you and you
and I were staying The Kitchenhaving a drink. And it was a lot
of people there was just aregular party poker games going

(01:15:04):
on. And you said to me, he'slike He is you said to me Go
brand new, you and Stacy arehappy. And you said, look at
these people here right now alot of these people build you
know that they have more moneythan they know what to do with.
Some of them are they don't gettheir paycheck the next week,
they don't even exist on theplanet. He says, but some of
those people aren't happy outthere. And he's in you just

(01:15:25):
based said you and Stacey arehappy. I think you must have
seen this in a corner. And wewere just having fun and just
like be in those woods. And it'snot a perfect science. But I
think you've been on that trainfor a while. So I'm saying
you're on record of kind ofthat's not a philosophy you had
with a cancer diagnosis. No. Andso that's, I'm just giving you
credit, saying that was 20 yearsago, you know, whatever, or
whatever, however long it wasago, you know,

Gavin (01:15:44):
I mean, I'm not sure it was that long ago, but you don't
I think cancers only kind ofsolidified it. But yeah, I think
it's I'll give credit to my wifeto be honest, I think because we
had our ups and downs. And wentthrough some marriage counseling
and realized we're wasting ourmoney. And even though I say go

(01:16:07):
get counseling, but I thinkthat's more for mental health. I
am not sure marriage counselingworks. What works for my wife
and I's we threw the divorcecard out and said we're gonna
make it work. We're gonna chooseto be, you know, happy and work
at it together and be togetherbut yeah, so. But she she kind

(01:16:29):
of said, you know, or told melike, you know, Yabba either
choose to be happy or don'tyeah, that's stuck with me.

Yeah. And you guys have the that thing you have
that one particular thing that Ithink, again, now coming up on,
I guess it's 1819 months intothis whole thing. But that 10pm
on Tuesday night, we're in asalsa bar in your dance with
Rose, I got a good picture ofit. You guys looking at each
other? You'd seen each other forthe first time?

Gavin (01:16:56):
Oh, yeah. And that was that that's a perfect that that
was a great night.

It's a great night.
And it's a great image. And it'sa great, it was fun to watch
you, you know, kind of out thereand not that, you know, because
a lot of times you do thesethings and you're doing it
because it's kind ofmanufactured and you're like
this is this would be aspontaneous thing to do. There
was no one else was in the roomwhen you guys were dancing. For
as far as the way you werelooking each other. There was
like there was no one else werein that room at that point. That

(01:17:21):
was That sounds like thecheesiest fucking thing I've
ever seen. I think I just saiddance like no one's watching.
Yeah, I think that's a cheesy,but that's kind of what it felt
like. And I think both of thesekinds of Lando, we

Gavin (01:17:33):
were we were definitely into ourselves, we really
weren't. I mean, I wasn't awareof it. It was

amazing to watch that, you know that that's deep
into what is a life alteringkind of diagnosis. And but I've
seen that for 20 something yearsnow that's been that's been a
constant. This one, I think is afun question. We're getting into
broader section. Now somebroader set. I'm not asking all
these questions, but some ofthese ones are broader ones. But
I love this. You and I do haveconversations like this

(01:17:58):
sometimes, which is the questionis simply what do you think this
world is going to look like, in200 years?

Gavin (01:18:05):
Oh, wow. You know, what, I, I would pray that we're all
here as a species in 200 years,to be honest. I think my fear
has always been growing up. So Iremember growing up, duck and
cover, you know, my biggestfears, we still destroy
ourselves with nuclear weapons.
You know, everyone's worriedabout global warming, and, you

(01:18:26):
know, whatever else. But I thinkthat's our greatest should be
our greatest fear as a species.
I mean, what one thing about theglobal warming argument that I'm
sure the world will lookdifferent in 200 years in regard

(01:18:46):
to that, I'm sure the waterlevels probably will be higher.
But humans adapt, we adaptreally well, as far as
controlling our surroundings.
You know, we're physically wedon't adapt. But, you know, we
have the ability to make oursurroundings. I mean, we have

(01:19:07):
people in Antarctica, you know,studying for crying out. Right.
So, you know, will will Floridabe the place to be? Will
California be the place to be?
Maybe not, you know, certainlynot New Orleans? Sure. But, you
know, 200 years global warmingwill still be able to adapt to
that. Nuclear? No, they launchedus, it's over. And so, I don't

(01:19:34):
know, I think I just hope we'rehere in

Texas variants. And I think the thing though, is
kind of like mind fucks me as Isometimes is, this question
runs, you run across this, atleast in your own mind, kind of
future forecasting, but the onesometimes that plays with my
mind a little bit as I go theother way with it. What are the
world look like in 1823? Andwe're in 2023 right now. So ask
that question. If you were toask them in 1823, but imagine

(01:19:59):
exactly and And I think that'sthe my answer is like, mostly,
which I think you had a verykind of intuitive answer there.
Because for us to start talkingabout, you know, transportation,
what what it looks like, isfolly. I think the real The
answer is, there's no way for usto know, 200 years, but I think
the pertinent question is, willwe be here? And that's a good

(01:20:22):
one. There's another one. It's abigger one. But I think it's, I
think I know the answer to thiswith you. But it's, do you
think, is humanity inherentlygood or evil?

Gavin (01:20:34):
We're both. We're both. I mean, that, to me, that's
obvious. I'd like to say we'reinherently good, because I do
believe everyone can beinherently good, unless there's
maybe a real mental deficiencythere. But truth be told, we're

(01:20:56):
both. And that's the struggle,we obviously need to good to be
better, we need to be better.
And I think we've gotten better.
I mean, you look at you know,slavery still exist, but not
like it used to, you know,around the world. Exactly. I

(01:21:16):
mean, you can call it a mistake,but we did give women rights.
You know, we let them drive you.
Know, I mean, we're movingforward. Yeah, that was fast
enough for for people, notnecessarily stuff that
necessarily move fast. But weare moving forward for maybe

(01:21:40):
even a step backward now. Andthen. And, you know, we say we,
I mean, I'm obviously very UScentric, right, maybe Euro
centric. I mean, there's still alot of places that not only
don't ever technology, but don'thave our values, right. And, you
know, some people would say,Well, you know, that's their

(01:22:01):
cultural values, they shouldhave that. Well. I mean, great
if it's slavery or subjugatingwomen, I guess that's culturally
appropriate for them, but notfor us. So I don't know. And but
anyway, we are moving forward.
So you know, what was thequestion?

I don't even remember now. The Bible leads
into the next question, whichis, I don't think that another
question I don't think I've everasked you. I think we talked
around it. Do you believe inaliens? Yes. Now this is my
question actually looked up thatthat was good. We have a
preconceived notion of what thatwould be. But the simple

(01:22:37):
question is, what if aliensinvade? And they're really hot?

Gavin (01:22:43):
Would I have sex with an alien? Absolutely. If she's hot?

No question. That's because wouldn't the oh, I

Gavin (01:22:47):
don't know. I don't know.
I better

get I think it'd because here's my point with
that question. The reason Iasked that question is because I
think we really overwhelminglyhave our guards up about aliens,
like so we have an idea thatthey want to probe our assholes
and they want to getinformation. They want to abduct
us and take our organs out andstudy them, right. But like
everything else in the world,well, they wouldn't be they
wouldn't that door open. Andthey were just super hot. And

(01:23:09):
I'm talking men I'm talking for,but not just from a guy's
perspective all the way acrossthe board just walked out, there
was nothing but a line ofVersace models. Would that
change our perception of ofwood? We drop a lot of our
guard.

Gavin (01:23:25):
I'm not sure how serious you want me to be.

I was very serious about I love this subject.

Gavin (01:23:31):
I'm not sure what drug you just took, you know, in the
last two minutes, but it

came out with a great question. Yeah.

Gavin (01:23:39):
Well, by the way, when people say, you know, alien
sight, I have a slightlydifferent it doesn't matter to
answer your question. It's gonnabe the same but just so people
can think about this too. I'mnot sure they're necessarily
from another planet could befrom another dimension. So you
know, he can you know, peoplesay oh, just planetary travel,
of course now wormholes and allthat it's become even in physics

(01:24:01):
more acceptable. But you know,if you're a different dimension,
jumping dimensions could be alot easier than even traveling
across, you know, space. And Ithink again, and maybe they're
also just our eyesight, youknow, they could be amongst us
now and but you know, that wecan see him and then we can

(01:24:21):
write, you know,

and I do think there's more practical sort of
like evidence happening rightnow about in particular, sort of
like a simultaneous alternaterealities that that very well
could exist especially the moreand more we learn about these
black holes and things likethat,

Gavin (01:24:38):
but are we open to them?
You know, that's the crazy thingI think the scientific thought
is if they're really aliens andare really from a different
planet different you know, solarsystem get, you know, Galaxy,
whatever, that they must be. Oh,god, what's the fancy word for
it? not omnipotent, but you'refriendly, right? Whatever,

(01:25:03):
there's another word for it, itjust escapes me at the moment,
but they must be friendlybecause they're so advanced,
they haven't destroyedthemselves, or they've gotten
past that. So they wouldn't hurtanother culture. You know,
obviously, they wouldn't becausewe're, you know, we're sentient,
you know, we're a vessel, youknow, quite frankly, I kind of
wonder sometimes if we're notjust a giant zoo, you know, you

(01:25:24):
know, big, big blue marble, youknow, with all these different
species and everything. Maybewe're just a zoo,

you're gonna have to live like at least 13 days
long as we need to do anotherone of these and that that might
be the topic right there. Ithink Well, we I think my dream
is to like do one of these inDenver and get your other
podcast dream partner on there,Trent. I think that would be get
some microphone and headphoneson Trent.

Gavin (01:25:50):
Well, you wouldn't need me. I mean, hell, it'd be a big
battle between which one hetalked the most.

So watch. I'm doing pretty good here. Yeah, well,
yeah, that's overall because ofthe circumstance. If you ever
have you ever seen a ghostGavin? Or what you did you have
any interaction that way?

Gavin (01:26:11):
Not a ghost. Keep going.
I've seen an angel

was tell the story.

Gavin (01:26:19):
Well, two stories. When I was really drunk, one I was
stone cold sober. So I've seentwice. Both involved water want
to shower when a hot tub? Wateris very, for people that kind of
look at that. Water can be verypowerful. Both experiences were
extremely enlightening, andquite frankly, both kind of

(01:26:41):
scary. But that's one reasonwhy. My faith, it opened up my
faith a lot. Yeah, me a lot ofreason to be very faithful in
one instance. And this wouldhave been the sober time in the

(01:27:01):
hot tub. It's like the wholeuniverse just made sense. It was
weird. It was kind of like, youknow, if you were to ask me a
physics question, I could haveanswered it. Course that lasted
about 1020 seconds. But

But at that moment, you had it? Yeah. It was weird.
Interesting. And I think that'sinteresting that, that, that
it's sort of an independentdisconnect. And I think you and
I've talked about this, I thinktouch a little bit on like, your
sort of your, as much as you door don't want to, I think it's
interesting, you know, as faras, like, sort of your journey

(01:27:38):
of like faith,

Gavin (01:27:39):
by the way, just for all you listening. I don't you all
are pretty much the only peopleI've ever said this to so you
know, I don't talk about thatvery much.

I know that what that now all of Venezuela knows
it.

Gavin (01:27:51):
Yo arriba.

But do you do I mean, as far as I can, this is,
again, a little bit of the end,I think you can choose to go
whatever path you want here. ButI think some of this is that
kind of particular historicalrecord. Where what has been your
sort of faith journey, you know,for like, did you have it? Did
you lose it? Did you get itback? Have you drifted away? Or

(01:28:15):
where do you land

Gavin (01:28:15):
now? It's been up and down. I mean, I remember mom
taking us to church, you know,young age, Episcopalian Church.
I remember. Not liking it, notunderstanding it. And I prefer
to watch football on Sundays.
Yeah. So it my Dad, thank God sowe kind of fell out of going to

(01:28:41):
church. Yeah. Although my dadwas even, you know, especially
when he was sick, you know,religious? I don't know. So, you
know, I always for a time, Ithought it was kind of a
psychological reason for peopledealing with death, you know,
facing your own mortality. It'snice to think that maybe we

(01:29:04):
would go on so, you know, for atime I was kind of like, it's
just a comfort thing.
psychological thing, right. Butcertainly, after those two
experiences that changed mymind. Yeah. And then after my
cancer died, well, first offthen, so yeah, so So those two

(01:29:27):
experience changed my mind. Andthose were probably back in.
See, we're in that house. Sothat would have been round 2000
tween 2007 and 2013. Yeah,trying to remember when he moved

(01:29:48):
into our house. So anyway, itwas back when I was at the
breakers in the house. Yeah. SoSo since then, I have been very
spiritual. And then I gotta behonest, went to the Vatican in
2013 on a trip, got my piececross at the Vatican. Yeah, once

(01:30:09):
I got my cancer diagnosis, putit on, and I've been much more
even spiritual. Since mydiagnosis, which I think is
normal. There's an oldphilosophical I can't remember
was Hume or I forget the otherphilosopher, but there was a
philosopher, I took a class incollege, you know, also slept at

(01:30:30):
a Holiday Inn. But it's verytrue. Everyone believes in God,
when they're hanging by theirfingernails, you know, off a
Cliff's edge. You know, you lookup and you pray, please save me
Jesus, you know, yeah, pleasesave me. I'll do whatever. So,
but, you know, I'd like to thinkmy spiritual spirit. I'm not

(01:30:52):
gonna spirituality. Thank you,is a little deeper than that.
Well, more meaningful. I had itin the past, but my diagnosis
has made it stronger.

Gotcha. Do you feel like overall? And then we'll
wrap down to a few morequestions. So you and I can both
take a nap before? I'm rightthere with you. But I need a
cocktail. That's a cocktail thana nap. Have you been thinking
about lately? Like, with a witha, like, a lot of us don't get a

(01:31:24):
kind of a finite timeline. Insome circumstance? have you
accomplished what you want toaccomplish? Have you kind of
given yourself time to thinkabout that? Or do you let
yourself go down? Is that not ahealthy place to go?

Gavin (01:31:35):
No, I feel like I could have done more should have done
more. To be honest. If I reallythink about that. I guess that's
a regret. You know, no one wantsto die with regrets I guess most
people do. That's a regret ofmine. I think given given all
that I was gifted with orblessed with? I think I could

(01:31:59):
Well, I think I could have donemore. I think I should have done
more. And I gotta be honest, Ihope the good Lord. You know, I
feel like apologizing when I getup there. It's like, I'm sorry.
And so, you know, again, I hopesomething like this, maybe even
just to kind word to someone.
Yeah, I hope it's enough.

I think it is. And I think we'll I almost guarantee
we'll do another one of thesebecause it's pretty easy
quality's about the same overFunsters. There's a there's,
there's gonna be more things Iwant to ask. But the other one I
kind of had lingering, and maybewe'll talk into that right now
is. And I think another one thatI sort of know possibly the
answer, but it might be helpful,not only to your own kids to
other people that might belistening is what was your worst

(01:32:40):
habit? Is your worst habit? Andwhy couldn't you kick it?

Gavin (01:32:46):
Well, because I'm sorry, picking your nose is the easiest
way to clean it. You know, Iknow there's this novasure. And
every time I hear it, it's like,how do you clean your nose? What
with my finger? Right? Exactly.
You know, so no, I don't know.
You know, that's definitely one.
Smoking now and then I don'tknow. I mean, yeah. I honestly,

(01:33:10):
I don't know where you're goingwith it. If those are too bad
habits,

smoking would be I guess let's just stay on
smoking. You know, Smokings.
fair one. And I think I think itgets to the fundamentals of the
bigger question scalable wouldbe, why weren't you able to kick
it?

Gavin (01:33:27):
Well, I could, I mean, to be honest, I call myself a
social smoker. I mean, I neverwas more than Well, alright,
this actually good. I never wasmore than a pack a day. But I
went, you know, to have the kidswe went two or three years
without smoking frozen. i Whenwe met, we were both kind of

(01:33:48):
smoking at that time. But not alot. I mean, there are people
that go through three packs aday four packs, and it's never
like that. But you know, it'snot healthy. It doesn't smell
good. But yeah, to have the kidsbecause we did, you know,
artificial insemination Yeah, toquit for time before we started.

(01:34:10):
And, you know, we're expected tonot smoke the whole time. And we
didn't, I kind of took it upagain. It to me, it was always a
more social thing. Right. But,you know, it's, it's ironic now
that I have lung cancer, I feelvery emboldened to just light up
whenever I want, because Ialready got cancer, but I'm sure

(01:34:33):
that people will say, well,don't you want to live longer?
Well, I've already done that,too. But, you know, I don't
think that in my mind, thatdoesn't make any difference,
right, you know, having one ortwo now. I also look at because
I have lung cancer. At somepoint, my body's just gonna say,
you know, don't do it. Andthat'll be fine. Right? Liver
cancer will probably say don'thave a beer either, you know, so

and that you'll it'll be apparent when that time
comes.

Gavin (01:34:58):
Yeah, and it kind of is Uh, you know, I kind of just
listen to my body so right

I don't know if you and I have ever even really
talked much about this maybe doyou have any like particular
people that stand out in yourlife as like mentors to you like
that you kind of look back on itand is there anybody that stands
out to you that's that's worthnoting or that comes to mind.

Gavin (01:35:22):
There really should be anyone that

maybe it's kind of like, like poke a little bit
like anybody, like in thefinancial world or anything like
that, that you kind of look backand say, or a teacher, maybe in
college? Well,

Gavin (01:35:34):
there's there's one person I it's an easy fallback.
And I'm sure there are othersand I apologize, but there's
definitely one his doc him. Andthere's two reasons. He was our
high school. I can't high schoolEnglish teacher. And, you know,
he had his doctorate he eitherhad love I think he was was from

(01:35:57):
Harvard. And I think is what hecall it. Teacher, you know, they
shared an office, I think he wasYale, and they would butt heads.
But Mr. Meade, but anyway, youknow, friendly, right? But he, I
went out of his classes rightafter my dad killed himself and
walked out of class, just thatone of those days, one of those

(01:36:19):
moments. Kent had a nice littlelake and I sat down to Lake
after class ended, he came outand sat down with me and, you
know, said, Well, how are you?
And I said, Well, I'm not good.
And, you know, he said, Well,what's up? And, you know, I
said, you know, I just, I'mhaving a hard time dealing with

(01:36:41):
what happened with my dad. Yeah.
And I said, I, and he goes,hold, tell me about it. And I
said, Well, I'm, I'm having ahard time with how selfish she
was, you know, killing himself.
Yeah. Even, you know, me and mytwo brothers. And my mom, I just
thought that was selfish. And hegoes, Well, you know, he was in

(01:37:05):
pain, right? They go, yeah. Yousaid it's been, what? 10 years?
And they go, yeah, he kind oflooked at me said, Well, who's
the selfish one here? Thatstung. I looked at him like,
wait a minute, I'm the onesuffering you're the one talking
to me. You're supposed to bemaking me feel better. And
you're calling me selfish. Like,who are you? What are you doing?

(01:37:31):
Right. And? And, but he wasright. That's what stung the
most. Yeah. You know, he said,You know, I know you love him.
But he said, that's why you'rebeing selfish because you love
him. Interesting. But he said,you know, because you love him.
You also should be willing tounderstand that and let that

(01:37:51):
anger go. Wow. And so here'swhat's funny, real quick. And
his story. He as it turns out,he was married with kids. Yeah.
And he basically said, you gotto do what's right for you. Do
not for others, you know, dowhat's right for you, not for
don't do for others. Turned out,went to college two years later

(01:38:15):
found out he divorced his wifeto be with his gay lover. So he
finally took his own advice he

did finally listen to itself. Yeah, physician heal
thyself. Yeah.

Gavin (01:38:25):
So I thought that was awesome. Actually looking back
on it. This one

I like to this is, again, like, these, these are
difficult, but I think don'tdon't make them more difficult
than they need to be. And thisone even has a little bit of a
The question is like, what'syour sort of elevator pitch but
your cosmic elevator pitchmeeting? And what I mean, that
is like, not your jobdescription, professional self.

(01:38:50):
About page and just, it justkind of the question is like,
who are you? Like, who, youknow, like, as you as like you,
like, you know, if you'resitting like, who? How do you
see yourself and who are in and,you know, for us, you know, in
this context would be like, whowas I? You know, eventually when

(01:39:11):
you have that one? Do you have asense that do you feel like,
that's a question you can kindof think about a little bit?

Gavin (01:39:16):
Well, I mean, I've kind of thought about it. Yeah, it's
kind of like, if I understandwhat you're asking, it's kind of
like, what do you want on yourgravestone? How do you want
people to remember differently?

Same questions, right? And I don't want to say
write your own habitat, youknow, but it's something along
those same kind of questions.
Like, people are gonna say thatabout you. You know, they're,
they're gonna, they're gonna I'msure they're gonna be something
said about me. Right. But thelike, might when my dad died
last year. And you know, therewas my brother did a beautiful
job he wrote about him. He was,he was in the Navy. He was a

(01:39:46):
cop. He was a coach. He was ateacher. He was a loving father.
That's not somebody those arethose are those are there's
there's a lot underneath each ofthose but I think it I'm not
saying

Gavin (01:39:59):
she was funny is I kind of wish I had some of that,
because I feel like I've kindof, you know, I did stock
trading for 30 plus years.
Right, but what is that, but Ifeel like I wish I had something
like your dad had your comp, youknow, helping people, you know,
being a public servant, youknow, doing something
meaningful? I'm not that's oneof my regrets. I'm not sure I

(01:40:21):
did anything meaningful. So whenyou ask, I guess I have to, but
at the same time, your questionI kind of like because you're
focusing on the person. Exactly.
So there, I think I excel. Imean, let's be, you know, I
excel know

that. But, but that's true. Because before you
finish that sense, I'd saythere's a lot of people
immediately get to line anddisagree with you about it. Your
kids, your friend, Brian, youknow, that whole different
perception of of you, becausewe're not doing the bullet
point, you know, obituary, youknow, it's, it's not the, those
parts of it. But, you know, eventhe some of those stories at

(01:41:01):
dinner are very meaningfulmoments that you have, that
might give Trent confidence in adirection he's going that's
that's something like that.

Gavin (01:41:10):
Yeah, I just honestly, it's pretty simple. I mean, you
know, just one or two things, Ireally hope. I hope I've been a
kind person, I hope I've been apositive person, not just
positive, in my own mind, butpositive toward others. You
know, I always try to say, thankyou, please, I was trying to

(01:41:31):
smile at people you do, youknow, and you don't, that's a
good thing. You know, people,you know, not a lot of people do
it anymore. But I think it's soimportant, just number one, to
show your humanity and to letsomeone know, you know, kind of
it's like a silent Hello, howare you? You know,

exactly. And I think I think like you have in a
way of sort of an open greetingof like, we don't have to just
walk by not look at each otherhere. You know, it's like it,
whether it be a nod or smile.
And I think that is that is partof it. And you know, and then
then we get to the other thingsthat make somebody some, you
know, for me, it's almost betterthan listing your teaching or

(01:42:11):
coaching or your careerachievements. But the was he
loyal? Was he funny? Was he, youknow, was he carrying? That's
fine. I'll edit that shit out.
Just stop, throw the microphonearound. Sorry. But I think those
are the things I think that'sthe gist of the question is, I'm
glad you said that. And I thinkit's if you haven't, I think
it's good for you to think ofyourself that way. Because I

(01:42:32):
think that's that that is Icould give in I mean, this man,
I can give most of the time andgive two fucks what my friends
do for a living or what they'vedone. It's like, Are We
Connected when we're talking?
Are we having fun? Are we thethings that are more priority in
a relationship and liferelationships don't have a lot
to do with your resume. It's theresume looks good and obituary,

(01:42:53):
and it must resonate withsomebody that might not know
you. But that doesn't meananything in the connection have
a kind of an intimateconversation or friendship so
and then I'm gonna jump back toanother one. That's, I just want
to get this on the books becauseit's different now for sure. But
I know that like you're comingback to like your favorite. Like

(01:43:15):
what's it what's the yourfavorite exercise where you even
if it killed you, you still lovekind of pushing through it and
doing it like is there a coupleexercises and things you did? I
you know, I've got a couple ofmy head I know you do but is
there one that I'm being maybebecause of this the last year or
two something you miss doing orsomething that you really enjoy
that kind of pushed you and youenjoy doing?

Gavin (01:43:37):
Well exercise? And I I stopped it even before cancer? I
I can't remember how I fell outof it. Best exercise. Stop. The
best exercise ever did wasswimming. Yeah. I mean, I got up
to I was swimming almost a mileevery other day. For your three
days. Right. And that was good.
I mean, it built up my lungs. Itlose weight. It's what he called

(01:44:00):
it. You know, it's jointfriendly. Yep. So

you're even doing that through some of your knee
problems. And so yeah, Iremember that would be you'd
even go harder. This was yearsago, you'd be in rehab to read.
Yeah, you'd be on pivot. Sothat's kind of a random one. But
there's some some things that Ithink, again, kind of get lost
in our history of like, likewhen I met you in 1990 90 I
guess well, 91 990 9191 You wereyou were you were just an active

(01:44:32):
cover the whole court tennisplayer. And you were you were
you were an athlete. Tennis wasmy sport. Yeah, I mean, and I
think that gets lost you playedsome football in high school,
football and tennis and then itwas due to school and lacrosse.
That's right, because of coursecan't Denver everyone plays like
they have to so it's the isn'tanything like that stands out

(01:44:57):
like you know, the this is theglobal question. And I guess
again, but it's your it's yourshow right now is what are you
most proud of in your life? Likeif you have you, is there
something that stands out thatyou're that you're most proud of
is? This would be this isn't forsomebody with a cancer diagnosis
a good fucking question for allof us to answer at any point in

(01:45:17):
our life.

Gavin (01:45:19):
Well, I gotta be most proud of my boys. And I'm sorry,
my wife. I mean, well, I I feelso blessed to have my wife.
Yeah, number one. I mean, sheshe's, and my, she's my
caretaker too. And I gotta behonest. If I didn't have her and
she wasn't taking such greatcare of me, I don't think I'd be

(01:45:41):
here right now. Fact. I know. Iwould.

I can almost guarantee that. Yeah. Because
it's, it's it's a

Gavin (01:45:47):
and that's one of the hardest things with people who
are sick. Yeah. Number one. It'shard. Even. I'm not gonna say
name but a friend of ours on thecruise. He takes care of
himself. Yeah, you know, yeah.
And, you know, going throughchemo and stuff, you see people
come I mean, it's kind ofunusual for your partner to also

(01:46:10):
be your caretaker. And I mean,really, caretaker. You know,

the kind you pay $1,000 a month for that kind of,
to talk about? Yeah.

Gavin (01:46:21):
And then it's also very common, I learned this through
my dad and his illness. Verycommon for people with serious
diseases are terminal. Thepartner leaves within the first

no doubt about it.
There's no doubt about that. Andthat's over half. It's stunning.
It's like 80% You're exactlyright. There's two ones that
always kind of shocked me one ofthem's that and the other one is
the amount of divorces thathappen after like a diagnosis of
like Asperger's or the you know,severe sort of you know, can't
believe I'm missing the name ofit. Todd Julian you know, it's

(01:46:55):
but they the IT people aren'talways up for the challenge at
the bottom you I mean, it's

Gavin (01:47:04):
they they marry in health. That's exactly not you
know, they say in sickness, butthey don't mean it but they
really don't. So we kind of wenton by the way on that. Okay.
Just say something funny aboutmy wife. Let me think about it.
Yes. Okay. So you know, Mary insickness and in health until
death do us part. I don't knowif you had a chance to read some
of the run of Valentine's daycruise. We are the Valentine's

(01:47:27):
you read somebody read yourwhole door. So what what was the
best one? Jesus now that putsout on the spoil till death do
us part is for quitters?

i It's funny because I think no, this is the
classic Brian Upton. Why didn'tget a doctor like my brother. I
don't think I finished thesentence. Yeah, yeah. We'll go
we'll go. One. That is the Ithink we've we've put it off
long enough now. But there's alot of people that tuned in only
to know when will the Broncoswin a Super Bowl? I'm gonna give

(01:48:02):
you something easy. I'll giveyou a five year windows.

Gavin (01:48:06):
Yeah, if they're gonna do it, I would have to say within
the next three years. I don'tthink they'll do it next year.
But I think you know, Russell'salso. Russell Wilson, we're
under contract. He's gettingolder. We have some good
offensive pieces now. Right. Idon't think that's going to be
the case with you know, thesalary cap and all. Yeah, but so

(01:48:28):
if hypothetically, if they weregoing to win the Super Bowl, I
think their best chance would beso what next season would be
what are the 2020 2020 2324

C's? So add three or

Gavin (01:48:41):
2026 Wow. Although season but Super Bowl probably be in
2027. Right?

Yeah. And then who's going to be in the Super
Bowl next year? Now these arefuture bets for all those people
that are just

Gavin (01:48:56):
getting it? Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what. It's still
maybe gotta go to San Franciscoif they keep their pieces
together. I'm not sure theirquarterbacks gonna be

I think he's around town like on the local stuff
right now that it's just it'snot even a question Sprog party.
He'll be out of his surgery infour to six months. And I think
that nine I thought I heard hewasn't doing surgery. Well, he's
going to do that's called astrapping this where I get on my
leg, but he's going to not TommyJohn, he's gonna do the one
below that which is calledstrapping or something like
that. But he'll be back for, youknow, training camp like in July

(01:49:29):
or August. And I just think it'shands down. I think everybody
thought they saw enough gamesthat that nine games was enough
of a sample and the way heperformed in them, he only had
the one series in thechampionship game but I think
it's a it's a it's a slam dunk.

Gavin (01:49:42):
I think San Francisco if they can stay injury free and
keep basically their pieces theyhad this year I think your
favorite next year even ahead ofthe Eagles. I know you like
that. I do like that. In the AFCI hate to say it

it's Kansas City if it's dynasty. Now, I want to say
I changed my mind because theywere throwing out seven or eight
rookies on that defense. Andthis was the this was the year
where they were a littlesusceptance Bronco fan. I know
that and, but he's he's Patrickmahomes is the next next.
There's no doubt about it. Andhe's very young. And they've got
a gamble on defense they tookthis year, that would have

(01:50:19):
closed the window. And everysingle one of their rookies paid
off, they're there, the nextnext thing, and then I'm gonna
pivot to the last kind of like,I want to say, you never know,
I'm not assuming we have time wedid the go backwards question
you tell yourself. If you couldin your basically go and have a
conversation, kind of a futureconversation. Anything you'd

(01:50:44):
want to say to like, you'reinnocent, they're different
individuals. But my always goto, like you said what you're
most proud of. And itcorresponds with what I'm most
proud of? Anything you'd want tothere's things you say as a
parent. Right? And I know you'vehad conversations about we've
talked about going into thatroom and kind of the the reality
of all of it. But do you letyourself right now sort of like

(01:51:06):
think about their future? Youknow, and kind of think about do
you have to kind of like, do youstart imagining what their lives
look like and what you mightwant to tell them? Or do you
feel like you got all in?

Gavin (01:51:16):
No, I I do the problem?
The problem is twofold. Now,obviously, probably we can do,
or you can do another couplepodcasts on it. I'm not sure I
like where the country is goingright now. So I worry about
their future in that. politicsaside, I just don't it's not
same place we grew up in are noteven sure the same values are

(01:51:39):
there. So I worry about that. iSo, in that regard, I'm not even
sure what to tell him. I mean, Iwant to give them some advice, I
want to want to be successful, Iwant to be happy. But I guess I
go back to what I said earlier.
Just if they can just makeenough to live, make enough to

(01:52:01):
support a family and just behappy, then I think you can do
that anywhere out there. I mean,you should be able to do that
anywhere. I would hope you cando that here in this country in
the US of A and but I think youcan do it almost anywhere. But
again, you got to be focused onyour mindset. You make yourself

(01:52:23):
happy mentally. Yeah, you know,so I don't know. I don't know. I
wish I wish I had good advicefor them.

It's impossible.
Like I said, it's easy to goback and say what would you have
told yourself and you're sittingthere, you know, and your kids
are also you've seen themthrough so much of it that a lot
of these. We've seen theemotional ones the dad gets a
diagnosis, the kids one yearsold, and he's like, Hey, son,
it's your eighth birthday. It'syour 12th birthday. Happy 60th
Happy 21st you they do thosesorts of future videos to like,
these these big moments. Oh, I

Gavin (01:52:54):
would never do that. I know that you've told me that
before but it told you why toYeah.

Well tell tell the tale Venezuela why?

Gavin (01:53:02):
I don't want people hanging on I don't want my
family looking backwards. And Ithink sometimes with a with a
voicemail with a Well, I mean,it's hard enough with pictures
and photographs. But I mean tohave something interactive or
something kind of continue. Imean, there was a movie about
that sounds great. Whatever. AndI thought about that. Does it

(01:53:26):
feel selfish to you? Yes, Ithink it is because you still
want to be a part of your wife'slife for your kid's life. So you
leave them you know the moviewas this guy leaving love notes
or celebrating every anniversaryor set a standing up order with
flowers.

You're not there kind of a prick thing to do.
Yeah,

Gavin (01:53:45):
let's make her cry again.
You know?

What do you do?
Again, all these ones you don'thave to talk about anything but
if you kind of like positively Iknow I've been in a one
conversation but to startthinking positively for rows
after like TCC like have youtalked about the God knows you
guys are not a couple thatthere's no permissions or
anything needed? But do you justlike hope for the best like

(01:54:10):
where's your mentality on

Gavin (01:54:14):
set her up on dates right now that that's been going on
for 24 years?

Where are the women right now? That's the question
but it's just not something isit not? There's no energy in
that like thinking about her canit's a weirdest fucking question
Gavin thinking about somebodyyou love so much. They're
contentment after you might begone. It's weird.

Gavin (01:54:37):
Look, I I just want to make sure and she's in a good,
good spot. financially. I wantto make sure hopefully, I mean,
mentally it's going to be tough,right? I know how it hurt me
losing my father. I know how ithurt my mom losing her husband,
right. So I worry about that.
And you know, I've tried to talkto the kids a little bit about

(01:55:04):
it. I've tried to talk to her alittle bit about it. But you
know, ultimately, I want tocelebrate what we have now again
in a moment. But you know,there's not a lot I can do
necessarily the only thing andagain, goes back to mental
health. You know, I kind ofbroach the subject with my kids.

(01:55:27):
And they said they were for it.
And I think Rose said she wasfor it, you know, maybe we do
some counseling. Now. I mean, Icertainly know they offered it
right, when I first got mydiagnosis, right. And I don't
know if that would really helpprepare. But, and maybe not, but

(01:55:51):
yeah, I, it's tough, I thinkthey're gonna have to do what
they need to do for themselves,kind of, I don't say on their
own. Because I think as a familystructure, there's more strength
in being together as a familythere is and you know, leaning
on one another, because I knowthat's what we did.

And I think the thing I lean into, because when
you're looking from the outsidelooking in, the one thing that's
that is so prominent with me isis those kids, but you and I,
over the years have discussednow, similar ages of our kids,
as we've gone through it is, Ithink, very much more realizing
now that the nature of yourrelationship with your kids is

(01:56:31):
forever progressing. But thatsort of that that that blueprint
of who Gavin is, as relates toTrent as who Gavin is as relates
to Darren is, it's it's bakedin, in my means, like I'm
already realizing now myrelationship with Taylor, and
Ainsley and Bailey's, theybecome adults in their late 20s
and 30s. Right now, it's gettingmore like our relationship,

(01:56:53):
which is nuanced and funny andthings like that. But there's
not a lot more of, and I'm notsaying like I didn't, you know,
I didn't, there wasn't like thebook of Brian with it's just the
essence of who I was overdinners, trips, car rides, going
to ballgames that's in it. And Ido I do hold on that. So I when
I feel like sort of sad aboutit. And I think about like,
what, it's, it's not that it'snot, doesn't have as much

(01:57:15):
importance if you were to stayhere on the planet for another
45 years and see them become 80year olds yourself. But there's
not as much Gavin baked and yougot that. You got that? That's
in them. And I see it when Italk to them individually. When
you're not even in the room. Oneof the kids sometimes I feel
like I'm looking at you, Trentsometimes it's it's me. It's
sometimes I feel like, do yousee yourself and Trent more than

(01:57:38):
Darren, are you astute as aparent? Do you see yourself at
all?

Gavin (01:57:41):
Oh, I see myself and both of them. Yeah. Trent Trent blows
me away with some of how hethinks was how I kind of thought
in college or how Yeah, putstuff together. And I'm so proud
of him. Because now, you know,you look at you know, they're
always your kids kind of want tolook down on now. He's kind of
exactly that thinking and issome of his thoughts are so up

(01:58:03):
above mine. And I have to kindof what can you what, where'd
that come from? A nice quick,he's fine. So it's one of them
as best Darren to Yeah, I mean,yeah, you're one

of the greatest joys I've had. And you're
experiencing the same thing aswhen, in a lot of facets, you
kids go by you, you know, theygo by you. And I mean, in a
positive way. Because my focusis other ways by being by you in
certain categories of like, youknow, more than I do now.
Because there's a long period oftime, they just don't at seven
or eight or nine or 10. And youcan say my kids the smartest kid
in kindergarten, we still infucking kindergarten. Yeah. And
I, you know, I can be, but thenit gets the point, you'll

(01:58:36):
eventually have thatconversation at 22 or 25 or 30,
where you're like, oh, that'sNo, I

Gavin (01:58:41):
just love Trent with his degrees and everything. He he's
learned a lot, you know,marketing and whatnot. I mean, I
had some economics and stuff butdidn't have any marketing and
man, he'll he'll start talkingstuff. And I'm like, wow, but we
got our money's worth incollege.

Yeah, we were bullshitting at your house. This
was last year at some point. Andhe was just picking my brain on
my business. And I was talkingabout like what I do, because
you told him some aspects of it.
And I told him halfway throughcollege, it's very clear to me
already after 17 minutes, that Ishould be hiring you for this.
For what they're a joy and thenI followed you know, I get a
follow Darren on his socialmedia is much more active there.

(01:59:21):
From a standpoint of, you know,what he's doing with his life
and it's fun to see him in acommitted relationship and that
kind of evolving so well, that'sgonna we're just gonna wrap it I
think we'll wrap this one and Ithink the science point towards
I've got more questions to do.

Gavin (01:59:38):
You know, and we still haven't thought of what I'd put
my name on yet. Oh, shit. That'd

be fun. Next one.
That'll save us. Then again, Ithink you need to cut out the
thought that you're takinganything from somebody. It's
just used my assistant Whatwould I like Sistine Chapel
example? Let's just I like BrianUpton went to school. I played
football in college. I coachedmy three kids and then right
after I moved to New York, Icreated the iPhone you know

Gavin (02:00:01):
it just pop the Lord just popped in my head what? Carl
Sagan

wait so what wait a minute you want to you want to
be a person

Gavin (02:00:10):
well know what he kind of what he thought of you know his
book contact and kind of youwant your name on the bottom of
that book billions and billionsof stars

by Gavin writer cosmos by Gavin writer I love
you brother Love you too.
Alright man, that was fun.

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