October 15, 2024 • 54 mins
What happens when you stop trying to control everything and start setting boundaries for yourself? Join us on the Broken Tiles Podcast as we explore the nuanced journey of personal growth and therapy, seasoned with our signature humor and introspection. Discover the delicate dance between guiding and letting go, especially from a parental perspective, while pondering the motivations behind our need to control outcomes. Engage with us in a discussion that blends heartfelt insight and playful banter, encouraging reflection on compassion, self-preservation, and the art of establishing boundaries.
Relationships are complex, and the intricacies of codependency add another layer to this complexity. We dive into the implications of codependency with children, friends, and partners, shedding light on the draining nature of emotional vampires and how to manage our time with them. With a nod to the whimsical, we venture into the world of music genres and how they humorously reflect our personalities. From "alt-indie twang" to the soulful vibes of 80s music, we share a light-hearted exchange that captures the essence of our personal characteristics through music.
Mistakes can be unexpected gifts wrapped in life's challenges. We share personal and business stories where unforeseen events led to profound insights. From the delightful surprise of an "oops baby" to lessons learned from a breach of trust, we reveal how such experiences can reshape our understanding of what's truly important. Our conversation meanders through recurring dreams and the balance between freedom and order, ultimately tying together themes of anxiety, creativity, and self-discovery. Join us for an episode that promises both thought-provoking discussions and moments of levity.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian (00:00):
Ready to go?
Yep.
Stacey (00:03):
This is the Broken Tiles Podcast.
Brian (00:09):
Still can't get over it.
Stacey (00:11):
Get over what.
Brian (00:12):
That intro.
Stacey (00:13):
It's awesome.
Brian (00:17):
Select a seven.
Select a seven At select aseven on Instagram I think
that's kind of his best handle.
He's got all of his link treeum connections on there.
Uh does a lot of differentkinds of work.
We talked about superappreciate this.
We'll break out What'd he doThree or four different, five
different intros for us to playaround with.
(00:38):
Yeah, that's right I couldn'tfind it, so we went with you two
times in a row.
Babe, how are you?
Stacey (00:45):
I'm okay.
How are you?
Brian (00:47):
How was therapy?
Stacey (00:48):
It was very good.
Brian (00:50):
Should we kick off a little bit of therapy in broad
terms.
Sure, I don't know what you'rethinking, but Well, I think
there's the fact that we'redoing it on a Tuesday again.
You just walked out of therapylike a hot minute ago.
Yes, feels like maybe I thinkwe did last week or two weeks
ago um, any broad topics to kindof like talk about and maybe we
(01:14):
can pass on and people can talkabout shit or talk shit about
you?
Stacey (01:20):
yeah, they could certainly do that.
I would say in general termsthat well, it actually.
I brought two situations totalk about, but they really are
the same topic.
Uh, letting go of things thatdon't concern me or don't have
(01:53):
to concern me, that I seem towant to help and change
situations that aren't mine tochange.
Brian (01:57):
Uh, work life, um, like like past history, history,
everything, family, family, yeah, that's, um, I think that
possibly is in a way, um,everybody's a little different,
but in a way that might be oneof the hardest things,
especially from a parentstandpoint.
Yeah, to let things go that youhave no control over.
(02:22):
Is that what you said?
No control over?
Stacey (02:26):
Yeah, and it's not my place to try to fix it for
somebody else.
Brian (02:32):
That's the weird line.
That's the weird line becauseall it is is your place, from
zero to 18.
Stacey (02:38):
Right.
Brian (02:38):
It's your very specific place, it's the charter, it's
your place, and I'm talking notnecessarily by emotion.
I guess what I'm talking aboutis by the weird world and place
we live in legally.
Stacey (02:54):
Yeah, but I think there's a difference between
fixing and guiding.
And then I mean, really, whatwe're supposed to do as parents
is to guide our children tobecome fully functioning members
of the community, adults ableto have healthy relationships of
(03:15):
their own, not fix things forthem.
You know what I'm saying.
Brian (03:21):
No, I know exactly what you're saying.
You know, as far as um it'sthat classic story of you can
keep them even you cannot.
You put like gates around theradiator or in a way they can
possibly maybe rub up against itor touch it and they'll learn
themselves not to touch it again.
So you can either keep um allof those little variables and
(03:41):
circumstances and scary thingsaway and eventually it's going
to land.
Yeah yeah, that's a heavy one.
Stacey (03:49):
But even that desire to help is it's not just zeroed in
on one's kids, I mean, it can goto different relationships too,
different relationships too.
And so it's like how do youfigure out how to balance
between compassion and wantingto be supportive?
(04:11):
I just there can be a line thatyou cross and at what point do
you determine, oh, I need tokeep my own self safe and keep
my own boundaries, that's.
I think that's what I'mstruggling with.
Brian (04:30):
Does she get to the core ?
My gut feeling this is whatwill be interesting to see what
you say if you go down this pathis is our inclination to do
that?
To say control an outcome of anuncontrollable event?
Maybe it is even controllable.
It's probably not fair to saycontrol an outcome of an
uncontrollable event.
Maybe it is even controllable.
It's probably not fair to sayMaybe it's not yours.
to control is maybe the betterthing, but is it based in
(04:52):
insecurity?
Do you think like?
I guess the question is thisinstead of being kind of like so
kind of obscure about it is whywould we give a fuck about
somebody else that way and wanta result that we have in mind
for them?
It's kind of a weird thing,right?
Stacey (05:10):
Yeah, I think I understand what you're getting
at.
Brian (05:13):
That's amazing, because that was very confusing.
Stacey (05:14):
I know I don't know if anybody listening will
understand what you're gettingat, but I think what you're
saying is let's see how can Iput it into a different term.
Is let's see how can I put itinto a different term For doing
something for our ownself-gratification.
Is that what you're trying toget at?
Brian (05:31):
No what I'm saying, I'm going down to the root of it,
like we're cruising along andeventually I'm wondering my end
result is I think it's aninsecurity that we would want to
control somebody else'sdirection in their life or an
outcome of a result and I don'teven know why I would say that,
but I can't think a murder trial.
What's my motivation to controla result for somebody else on
(05:52):
the planet, like why do I evenstart there?
I'm going deep, deep into it,like like we do do that and it
is hard to let go of things wecan't control.
The question is why do we wantto control things?
Stacey (06:06):
Oh yeah.
Brian (06:15):
Because things that feel out of control is so
uncomfortable.
But in theory and this is wherewe're getting into the deep,
high weeds is if we know thathaving control is going to give
us a security and being out ofcontrol is something that gives
us anxiety.
We want to take control fromsomebody.
It's, that's the, that's thefuck.
I guess that's the roundaboutthing I'm getting is for us to
(06:37):
kind of feel so really, what wewant to do is control our little
environment by controlling anarrative or something else in
somebody else and in essence,what you're doing is you're
taking from them the thingthat's giving you the stress,
which would be an ability tolearn, control or control their
own lives or control a situation.
Does that make sense?
I'm really rambling aroundtoday, but does that kind of
(07:00):
make sense what I'm saying?
Stacey (07:01):
I think it makes sense what you're saying.
Brian (07:03):
It's kind of it's sort of it's kind of messed up in a
way.
I kind of like thisconversation because, like
everything else, I think I likegoing deeper into the
motivations of why we do what wedo and why we lose so much time
.
So here's the thing you lay ona couch, I'm assuming, and she's
smoking a pipe and sitting in ahigh red back chair.
Stacey (07:24):
In a tweed coat with leather patches on her elbows.
Brian (07:27):
That's exactly it, and the lights are kind of dim.
Stacey (07:29):
No, Right, the lights were dim.
Brian (07:31):
And you're laying flat on the couch with a little it's
like a leather couch and yourhead's on a round firm pillow,
and then she's sitting with herlegs crossed smoking a pipe and
there's like a smoke in the airwhile you're talking.
And there's like a smoke in theair while you're talking and
(07:57):
she has a beard.
Not at all.
And this will be a teaser, formine is if you're thinking all
the time, it's the same problemas talking all the time.
And if I'm thinking about, I'moverthinking even this part of
it, but I don't know if I'moverthinking it as much as I'm
really curious about it.
I'm curious about agendas, I'mcurious about what makes us,
(08:18):
because we all do it.
I do it at work, I do it atwork with people, I do it in
relationships.
I've done it over a period oftime.
You have an inclination.
What's that?
Stacey (08:29):
It's solving for something, yeah, and somebody
(08:55):
that's, I don't know, in themidst of a chaotic situation.
I want to help quell the chaos,likely because growing up there
were chaotic situations at homeand that was really hard to
live with and I just wanted tofigure out a way to make the
chaos stop.
Brian (09:10):
Right.
Stacey (09:11):
And so if it happens now , even if it's not my chaos to
solve, I still want to figureout how to solve it.
Interesting, Because I'm veryuncomfortable with it, and then
this is great.
Brian (09:21):
This is actually a great way to talk about a therapy
session.
We haven't talked about shit asfar as interpersonal.
Did you come out with anyshareable fundamentals?
Do you think today's sessionlike there's quite a few people
that listen and is there asimple like?
Stacey (09:34):
again, not not diagnosing other people, but
really about recognizing what isand isn't my, isn't my, my
responsibility, you know?
Um, really, I mean, I have totake a step backwards and be
objective and think, okay, whoseproblem is this?
(09:55):
And, uh, is it actually mine tosolve?
Brian (10:00):
Interesting, and are you actually?
Stacey (10:03):
and usually it's not mine to solve.
Brian (10:04):
And there's probably the we've had this conversation
many times about raising kids isthat you're actually most
likely setting them back ordoing long term harm by solving
it for them.
Stacey (10:17):
Yeah.
Brian (10:17):
It's a it's not helpful.
Stacey (10:19):
No, this isn't just about kids.
Brian (10:22):
You know, there's other situations that I find I want to
intercede, yeah when we talkabout this I'm talking about,
this is such a broad topic.
Stacey (10:32):
I think we're talking about work, relationships, kids,
you know it goes and otherrelationships, other
relationships, just friendshipsand stuff.
Absolutely I think it's onesingle conversation and stuff.
I think it's one singleconversation.
Well, okay, so here's what shesuggested is to really dive into
some of the literature aboutcodependency, because
codependency that body ofliterature and that thought
(10:55):
process, was originally gearedtowards people in relationship
with somebody with addictionissues, whether it be alcohol or
drugs or whatever it might be.
But the same philosophies standtrue for mental illness or
(11:17):
somebody that's just typicallychaotic I can't think of a
better word for it nointeresting.
Brian (11:22):
Codependency is a circular relationship in which
one person needs the otherperson who, in turn, needs to be
needed.
The codependent person, knownas the giver, feels worthless
unless they are needed, by andmaking sacrifices for the
enabler, otherwise known as thetaker.
Stacey (11:38):
Yeah, damn Interesting, isn't it?
It is.
Brian (11:42):
Yeah, so many times I go through my 56 plus, whatever
days and months it is, and I'venever looked that up.
Tayler (11:48):
Oh you haven't?
Brian (11:49):
I don't think so.
Why would I?
I take it in the context of aconversation and you get the
gist of it.
But how many times do you everstop and just kind of say maybe
I shouldn't take the gist of it?
Stacey (12:01):
Yeah.
Brian (12:02):
So that's interesting.
I'm down yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
So much is like you know, butthat classic boundaries,
boundaries, and then that, andthen if, eventually, if you are
going to step in, maybe what youneed to do is you've qualified
(12:28):
it by setting the boundaries,that if you feel, if you have to
go over a boundary, you've setstrong enough boundaries, that
maybe you've used that wordagain qualified it a little more
that you're're going to step inone of a hundred times, rather
than 60 of a hundred times or 70of a hundred.
Stacey (12:44):
Yeah, but ideally you don't step in when it's not
yours to fix.
Brian (12:48):
But that stresses me out .
Stacey (12:50):
I know, man, but that's where and also coming up with
ways.
It's almost like having apersonal rule, like, say, you
have a friend who is just almostlike an emotional vampire in a
(13:13):
sense and you recognize thatit's not good for you to stay on
the phone for a long time withthis person because they just
take a lot out of you, and soyou can set this boundary or a
personal rule of okay, I'm goingto give this person a 10-minute
phone call, as opposed to thehour and a half we might
normally do.
And so you even start off thecall saying, okay, before we get
(13:36):
started, I've got to be off thephone in 10 minutes or whatever
.
So you give that person thattime and you're fully present
and you approach it withcompassion, and then you're done
.
Brian (13:50):
I like the what we do in the shadows reference you just
gave with the emotional vampires.
Question is did emotionalvampires exist before what we
did in the shadows?
Yes, it does exist.
That word exists before thatshow that phrase.
Stacey (14:02):
yeah.
Brian (14:02):
It does, yeah, and we know a lot, we know, I know, we
all.
Stacey (14:07):
We all know.
Not only do we know, I thinkeverybody does, and I think we
all have done it.
Yeah, I think that's probablytrue at one point or another.
Brian (14:27):
I another.
I'm on definitions right now.
Stacey (14:28):
Okay, now, what An emotional vampire, someone who
drains the energy of othersthrough manipulation, guilt,
tripping and other behaviors.
Brian (14:32):
Wow yeah, I'm looking right at you, babe.
Uncool.
So that's any more in thesession, or is that pretty good?
Stacey (14:35):
Well, you know me, I'm a slow processor.
I just left, I got to keepthinking.
Brian (14:41):
I know what to do when that happens.
Much better producing thisepisode than last so far.
Yeah, knock on wood, I shoulddo that.
Let me get this one out of theway and I'll even play it again,
but do it right at the top here, because I think that's the way
we should be doing.
It is.
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We've got our FOB.
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Brian (15:28):
Or you can just call Olivia at 831-531-2300.
Schedule the tour.
That's how it all started forme and we've been using it.
I think I'm going to call thisroom because we're using all the
studios for different thingsGot the big TV studio for the,
you know, the larger podcastsand the cameras and stuff like
that.
I think I'm going to call thisone the cubby.
Stacey (15:51):
Oh, I like that.
Brian (15:52):
Yeah, so when we work in here, we're working in the
studio, but it's the cubbystudio, we're just the Cubby.
Question numero uno.
Stacey (16:02):
Okay, so I have taken cards from three different
question games because I'mreally expanding things for us.
First one I'm going to read isfrom the Adventure Challenge
Connection Cards Couples Edition.
Okay, this is kind of cute.
If I were a genre of music,what would I be and why?
Tayler (16:26):
Hmm.
Brian (16:28):
You would be.
I think you would be in the forsure.
I think I'd eventually put youbecause of.
I can't get past your style ofmusic.
You really like sort of theit's not probably the right word
storyteller kind of artists,but the genre would probably be
(16:52):
man.
You have a little bit.
You do tend towards a littlebit shockingly in the twang a
little bit.
Stacey (16:58):
I'm a little bit country .
You are a little bit rock androll.
You are a little bit.
I'm a little bit country, youare A little bit rock and roll.
Brian (17:01):
You are a little bit so I don't even know what that's
called Like, what's the?
I don't know.
Would it be?
Would it be?
Stacey (17:06):
Well, Rhett Miller calls his music alt country.
Brian (17:09):
It's not quite all the way, though.
Stacey (17:11):
Americana.
I've heard Americana, I I wouldcall you alt-indie country.
Brian (17:25):
No, alt-indie, Alt-indie With a twang.
Can we do that?
We can stop doing that now.
So if you were a genre music,it would be alt-indie.
I'm going to say this because Ithink it's more.
But alt-indie rock is reallykind of an existing one.
I got to get that twang inthere.
Alt-indie.
I'm going to say this because Ithink it's more.
But alt-indie rock is reallykind of an existing one.
I got to get that twang inthere.
Alt-indie, twang.
Stacey (17:44):
Yeah, I like it.
Brian (17:45):
That's your genre.
Alt-indie twang.
Stacey (17:47):
You just made that up.
Brian (17:48):
I did.
It works and that's the one Igive to you.
That is what I like.
Stacey (17:50):
Yeah, but what if you were about, like, a personality
style?
Okay, I'm going to tell youwhat I've thought of for you,
but I don't know what the genreis called.
Brian (18:03):
Ooh, honey, that's Taylor Upton.
We're supposed to always takeit when the kids call in.
Stacey (18:07):
I know.
Brian (18:08):
We have a rule.
Should we try it, Taylor?
Taylor, you're on the podcast,Taylor.
We have a rule that if any ofthe kids ever call in as crappy
as your connection is right nowand you're on your phone, which
is on your speaker, which meansit's going to be horrible, yeah,
(18:30):
see.
Tayler (18:30):
Is this better?
Brian (18:31):
Way better.
Tayler (18:33):
Only the best to the podcast.
Brian (18:35):
Okay, so we'll call you after we're done here, but
you're going to have to answerthe question.
We're on right now and you haveto answer it for both of us and
then we'll answer it for you.
Stacey (18:43):
Okay, I'm ready, all right.
Okay, if I were a genre ofmusic, what would I be and why?
Tayler (18:51):
Whatever, because it's relaxing you just cut out.
Brian (18:57):
You cut out a little bit , say that again, hold on.
Tayler (19:02):
Okay, I was just making you off Bluetooth.
I said whatever genre Enyafalls into you, because it's
relaxing and it's what youbirthed me to.
Brian (19:10):
That's very true.
And then the same question forme, which is if I were genre
music, what would it be?
Tayler (19:19):
Maybe like bad 80s rap, but like that's catchy.
Brian (19:24):
Bad catchy 80s rap.
That's pretty good, yes, likesome just the good stuff.
Tayler (19:32):
You can't turn it off but you don't really want to
share it with, like the worldmight not like it, but we always
like it.
Brian (19:42):
So it'd be like something like maybe this Hold
on.
Tayler (19:46):
You can't hear this, but it's playing.
Brian (19:49):
Let it play for a second .
This is for the people, this iskid and play and this is some
old school eighties cheese.
Tayler (19:59):
Very myself.
Brian (20:00):
Like something like that right.
Tayler (20:02):
Yeah, like the stuff that goes.
Like that was it.
That's a-ha, taylor, you shouldplay a little bit of what mom
sounds like.
Brian (20:12):
I came up with a genre of music for mom, and it's
called alt-indie twang.
I made up a genre what's mine?
Oh, that's a good questionWe've got to answer for Taylor.
Stacey (20:22):
Well, Taylor is a powerful woman.
Is there a genre that would belike queens?
Brian (20:30):
No, get out of here.
It's ridiculous.
Keep going.
This is outrageous.
Stacey (20:35):
I'll listen.
I don't know what differentgenres are called, but I'm
thinking of powerful voices.
Tayler (20:43):
I'm thinking like Beyonce, Lady Gaga.
Brian (20:47):
My answer is just simply it's going to be a genre that
will be created aftereverybody's come and gone, but
she is Lady Gaga-esque.
Tayler (20:54):
Oh, that works, but with the ability to dance like
Shakira.
Stacey (20:59):
But can you dance like Shakira?
Tayler (21:01):
No, no, but I like to think I can if I wanted to and
applied myself to learning.
Brian (21:07):
All right, okay, we're dumping you, we're going to
finish this Wait.
Tayler (21:09):
is she called?
Brian (21:10):
Is there an emergency?
Is there an emergency, Taylor?
Tayler (21:13):
No, I was just coming to say hi, oh good.
Brian (21:23):
Well say hi, oh good, well, we'll call you later then.
We love you I love you.
Stacey (21:25):
Bye, you were going to start what was?
Did you answer mine or no?
You're gonna lean into it, sotell me what genre is luther
vandross?
Brian (21:30):
oh, that's just like um, that's soul music well.
Stacey (21:34):
So that's, that's what I think of you.
I think of Luther Vandross,because you've got a lot of soul
, you're very deep, but you alsohave a really big libido.
Brian (21:50):
And that was the I'm getting lucky music in the 80s.
Yeah, that's what that is.
Yep, that's Brian Upton.
This is my music, this is me,that's your genre.
I'm gonna type in uh, I'm gonnatype in alt, indie twang and
(22:11):
see what comes up on spotifyright now happens all indie
twang, oh, indie Twang, indietwang.
But it's actually good.
Stacey (22:27):
Let's see oh yep, that's me.
It's not bad, not bad at all.
Brian (22:36):
So the bottom line is I won the question.
Stacey (22:40):
I didn't know we were winning these.
Brian (22:43):
You said I'm a cheesy soul singer from the 80s.
No, Luther's not cheesy.
Stacey (22:47):
No, he's not.
Brian (22:47):
Luther was the man.
I see that as a high compliment.
Stacey (22:49):
It is a high compliment.
Brian (22:52):
And so this is a very shallow green question, but if
we were to broaden it out, youknow to like, like we always do,
maybe an interesting questionto ask, not on, clearly not a
first date question.
Stacey (23:07):
It's fun.
Yeah, it's somebody.
You got to know them wellenough to try to.
Brian (23:11):
But not too well.
Maybe after, like you know,maybe after X amount of dates,
or a year, or whatever it mightbe it might be fun to start Like
.
It's like you know what I thinkI'd consider it.
I think I'd consider it like agood check-in kind of question.
Years or a year, two years inthe relationship.
How are you seeing me?
Like are you a million milesaway?
(23:31):
Have you never thought of it?
You know as far as you knowthose kind of questions.
I think on that podcast you didwith Mike Howard the other day.
I was listening to one of thequestions and it made me think
about he did some counseling andit doesn't narrow it down who
he counseled, but he saidsomething off the cuff and he
(23:52):
said it to me before and that'son the Mike Howard show is the.
Unpacked and Naked podcast.
But he said something casually.
He said, like when he counseledpeople about like kind of like
getting to questions like this,he was, he said, just alluded to
the fact some people don't knowthe color of their partner's
eyes.
Yeah, check in here and therewith you know, with your partner
(24:20):
, even on something as obscureas that could be helpful.
Right, you all right there,babe.
Stacey (24:26):
I was trying to cough quietly.
Brian (24:28):
Get some.
It's not working out, get some.
What we'll do is, when in doubt, we can always go to a
commercial break.
If needed, you back with me.
To a commercial break.
If needed, you back with me,mm-hmm.
And so do you agree with thatas far as possibly a good way to
loosen it up a little bit?
Stacey (24:45):
Yeah, I think so.
Brian (24:47):
All right, let's go.
The next one's got to be alittle bit deeper babe, I'm
sorry, I keep coughing.
Tayler (24:56):
Uh-oh.
Stacey (24:58):
Okay, so this is from a deck of cards by a company
called the, and I don't know whyI keep coughing, sorry.
Brian (25:09):
You don't want to drink that tea, do you?
Stacey (25:12):
No, I don't that will ruin me.
Brian (25:18):
Let me take it over a little bit.
What's the unexpected gift wereceive from this, from a
mistake we've made?
Oh, we might be in trouble.
Stacey (25:26):
I think I'm back.
Brian (25:26):
You are back.
What's the unexpected giftwe've received from a mistake
we've made?
Stacey (25:34):
Oh, Can I tell you what first came to my mind?
Brian (25:37):
Yeah, I guess.
Stacey (25:39):
Ainsley.
Brian (25:40):
Oh man, A whole human being.
Stacey (25:43):
A whole human being.
She's pretty delightful.
Brian (25:46):
She was the classic and she knows this.
We're not breaking news on it.
She was the classic oops baby.
That's a good one, though.
Stacey (25:56):
Yeah.
Brian (25:57):
I think that's a gift.
Yeah, I think it's aninteresting way to look at that
though.
Stacey (25:59):
Yeah, I think that's a gift.
Brian (25:59):
Yeah, I think it's an interesting way to look at that
because there's, there's.
I think that's the only way welook at it and I think we would
have been, you know, whatever Ithink we joked about it before
at some point that you know youhave Bailey and you have X
amount of days before you canbasically participate in
(26:19):
activities again that makebabies, and we weren't too far
off the day or the week.
It was pretty close to waitthis long.
Stacey (26:28):
Well, you have to wait six weeks.
It was six months later and Iwas pregnant again, but that's
because of breastfeedingBreastfeeding.
If you're breastfeedingconsistently, it can be.
It's not a fail safe, but itcan work as birth control.
It keeps you from ovulating.
Brian (26:49):
I never had them that far apart.
So July, august, september,october, so they're four months
apart and it takes nine monthsapparently to produce a baby To
grow a baby.
All right, all right, and so itwas pretty fast.
It was still, I think, in thecategory of oops and it was the
(27:10):
most amazing oops of all time.
Stacey (27:12):
Yeah, quite awesome yeah .
We were excited.
Brian (27:17):
Very.
Stacey (27:19):
Do you have any other ideas about a mistake that a
gift for?
Oh, I have another idea.
Go ahead.
I guess you could call itbusiness mistakes.
We went through a really roughtime with a partner of yours
that had embezzled money.
Brian (27:42):
I stole all my shit.
Stacey (27:43):
Yeah, and it was extremely hard, but we
definitely grew closer over thatand really reevaluated what was
important to us and it became agood thing in the end and the
mistake was the mistake was.
(28:05):
I don't know.
I don't want to say trustinghim, but maybe um, not being as
aware of like staying on top ofbusiness things as I think it is
.
Brian (28:19):
I think the answer is the mistake and it's.
I kind of said that knowingwhat my answer would be.
Is it?
The mistake was trust, and thatthe mistake is trust does not
have the same standing in abusiness relationship as it does
in a personal relationship.
Oh in my mind it exists for sure, you know, but the trust that
(28:41):
exists in the kind of confinesof a business relationship kind
of go more down the lines oftrusting that it's a safe
environment to work, that it's ahealthy environment to work,
that you know that everything isabove board, and that's the
thing that I trusted him, like abrother and the godfather of
(29:04):
our daughter, the oops baby.
It has to be in its owncategory that if you trust
(29:25):
somebody like a brother, or agodfather to your daughter.
you still should check all ofthose accounts.
You still should check thatyou're not just taking your
quarterly kind of like smallcommissions and 3,000 miles away
hoping everything's going okayin Colorado.
Hoping everything's going okayin Colorado, yeah.
And so I think the problemthere was that the trust of a
(29:49):
friend was used in theday-to-day business and it
doesn't have a place there.
It can still exist, but itdoesn't have the same standings.
Does that make sense?
Stacey (29:56):
Yeah, yeah, because business is still business, I
guess.
Brian (29:59):
Yeah.
Stacey (30:00):
In the end I still business.
I guess, yeah, in the end.
Brian (30:02):
I don't know if we got to the other side of that.
I don't know if that was youranswer or mine.
Stacey (30:07):
I gave two.
Did you have another one?
Brian (30:10):
No, I think if I was going to land on a mistake, that
that came with an unexpectedgift.
Unexpected gift.
I think it would somehow kindof land probably for me in that,
the big swings of our life.
It has to be that trying to digif there's anything else that
(30:34):
jumps out at me that would havepossibly, you know, kind of
risen to that level a mistake.
It's a really good question.
It is.
I think I'm going to land onthat one, because that was kind
of my default as far as what itfundamentally changed me.
That mistake in trusting himled to a long-term kind of like
(30:59):
you know catastrophic result,and the gift was that you know
the perspective that nothing isforever.
It felt like forever.
It's not.
And then also possibly, how youkind of go about.
You know your dealings and youknow the way you see and trust
people.
It's an interesting take.
Stacey (31:23):
Yeah, it is because, you know, it seems often it seems
like the right thing to do istrust somebody that you've had
deep conversations with.
It seems strange to to make thedecision to be careful about
that trust, and yet I think wehave to be.
Brian (31:44):
Yeah, there's no doubt we do, and so I think that's a
good one.
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Stacey (32:19):
His name sounds familiar , but I don't know.
Brian (32:21):
Well, you would know, I'm going to go out on a limb
and then we'll kind of verify itlater, but I think it's oatmeal
.
Didn't he slop oatmeal?
Stacey (32:29):
in the 70s.
Yeah, I think you're right.
Something like that Quakeroatmeal, yeah, quaker oatmeal.
Brian (32:39):
Are you on?
Three already Simple littlequestions today what you got.
Stacey (32:43):
Okay, this comes from Esther Perel's box, a game
called when Should we Begin, andthis is a conversation card
where it just gives us a promptthat we have to finish.
Brian (33:06):
In my recurring dream, I am so we have to share about a
recurring dream, wow.
Stacey (33:12):
Are you ready to go, since you kind of knew it?
I know I've had other recurringdreams.
Oh yeah, this is a more recentone.
I was going to share one fromchildhood, but it's been a while
since.
I've had other recurring dreams.
Oh yeah, this is a more recentone.
I was going to share one fromchildhood, but it's been a while
since I've had that.
So a more recent one I haveevery so often is we are in a
house that we have to be out ofin the next day and we haven't
(33:37):
packed anything and you've left.
Brian (33:40):
Sounds like us.
Stacey (33:41):
And I have to pack.
Brian (33:43):
And I'm stressed.
Why do you think you have thisdream?
Stacey (33:48):
Why don't you tell me?
Brian (33:51):
I mean, there's the couch one, which is you're
completely dissatisfied, youdon't trust me, you feel like
I'm going to abandon you.
Hold on, you have the invisibleburden that you carry that I am
at any point unreliable to becounted on on any level when
it's meaningful.
But that's not true, though.
(34:21):
Every single vacation we takeoutside of moving from the house
.
But I think, deep down on thecouch with your psychiatrist and
her pipe, it's probably morethe ones I said at the beginning
.
Stacey (34:37):
Oh, at least they're less frequent now what do you
think it means?
Well, it's definitely anxiety.
Um, I can't say it's becauseyou never come through, because
you always do come through.
It just takes a while sometimesyeah, and so you're on
different timelines and maybethat goes back to the very first
(35:01):
thing I was saying.
I want to fix something that'snot mine to fix.
Brian (35:07):
Like you, yeah, like the entirety of me.
Yeah, there's no doubt.
And so the dream again is thatwe're moving and we have a short
period of time and I just takeoff.
Stacey (35:20):
Yeah.
Brian (35:23):
Yeah, that's a damning one.
It's terrible.
My reoccurring dreams with you,if anything, are not one
repeatable on a podcast, and Ialmost feel like you picked this
question just to no, I didn't.
Well, there's a chance thatit's really a.
It's an.
It's an inequitable position,because I think you pick a
(35:43):
question.
You're like I've got a good one, and then I know Brian's going
to be stuck.
Stacey (35:47):
Because I actually try to pick these questions without
choosing them.
I know, I know.
Brian (35:54):
It's a better.
It's a better narrative if it'sintentional for you.
No, the Beto runs wild in mydreams.
It's just been like that sinceI was 12, 13 years old.
The recurring dreams are notalways sexual by any means, but
(36:18):
it does lend towards the I guesswe'll say the romantic side of
it, fantastical side of it.
And that's when the questionwas specifically how do you
appear in my reoccurring dreams?
In my recurring dream I am oh, Idon't know how I got to that
point.
I guess I was the star of yours, but you said you were moving.
(36:41):
Yeah, in my reoccurring dreams,like I thought it was.
I thought it was more like howdo you appear?
When you do appear in mine, Imiss, I misunderstood it.
So I guess in my reoccurringdreams, my reoccurring dreams
are very like they run in aalternate sort of timeline and
universe to the world I'm livingin, just with like a
(37:03):
fantastical turn of ideas.
Like I wake up, a lot of mydreams are the day I had or the
meeting I'm going to have thenext day, or an idea that I had.
But I do have some really kindof and you know, one or two or
three out of every 10 practicalideas come out of those dreams.
(37:23):
Like I think I do a lot of roleplaying in my dreams, like,
like almost like future, hopingor or thinking about the best
possible outcome.
And I think in dreams, for somereason it's sort of my dreams
are fairly, and have always beenfairly cinematic.
You know, when I, when I havethe dreams are very real, but
(37:45):
they're also mostly grounded inwhat I'm doing and the outcome
that I want you know for rightnow I think a lot of times.
I do think about business ideasand different ways to market
and promote vibes or the podcastwith Nellie and things like
that.
Stacey (38:04):
You often wake up and say, oh, I had the best idea.
Yeah, best idea.
Brian (38:08):
When I was writing the book.
I would go to sleep and I wouldcontinue writing the book in my
dreams, or a chapter wouldevolve in the dreams.
I would either scribble it oryou know kind of kind of get
that down.
And there was even like thatlittle documentary that Nellie
and I came up with that we'reworking on with the kind of the
the environment surfing is.
(38:30):
I think all it was scribbleddown the side of the table was
Zac Efron, nellie and AnthonyBourdain.
Yeah, zac Efron.
Nellie and Anthony Bourdain andit took me like three weeks to
figure out why I wrote that down, and then it all kind of came
together.
But I'd say, that's probably.
You know, that's probably whereI kind of land.
Stacey (38:49):
Do you recall having any recurring dreams as a kid?
Brian (38:52):
Yeah, I think we've spoken about this.
I do not.
This question, this question isvery different, but I think.
But it's been so long.
I doubt if it would.
I doubt if it would be, um, uh,I doubt if it would be.
You know, there's been 30 or 20of these, whatever it is.
But my reoccurring dream when Iwas a kid all the way for like
five years, was my second gradeteacher, mrs Cubis, had been in
(39:13):
a car accident and I was awareof that.
And my dream is I'm in my roomand I can't stop myself from
getting out of my bed andwalking down our long hallway at
Orchard Street and I've toldyou this before and she's in the
little glass frame of the doorand she's on fire, but blue.
Oh my gosh and I can't stop fromwalking towards it.
Stacey (39:33):
That's scary.
Brian (39:34):
And I had it for like three years.
Stacey (39:36):
Wow, that really hurt, not every night.
Yeah, I had it for like threeyears.
Brian (39:39):
Wow, that really Not every night, yeah, but you know
more than I wanted, right?
And every single time it's adream within the dream and I
didn't want to get out of bed,but I can't not get out of bed
because I'm watching myself init.
But I had that one, did you?
That's crazy.
Stacey (39:49):
Yeah.
The one I really remember is Iwas in my dream.
I'm in my bed which was a waterbed because those were really
big at that day and age and itwas way high up off the ground
and I look over my bed and onthe floor all around my bed are
black widow spiders.
(40:09):
And I couldn't get out of mybed.
I couldn't go anywhere.
I was like a prisoner in my bedbecause of them.
Brian (40:16):
So you basically dream about moving and not getting
help in Blackwood.
Your dreams are shit.
They are.
You don't have great dreams, doyou?
No, not, really Not really.
No, I mean not like you know.
I'd say 85%, 90% of my dreamsare deeply enjoyable and I like
them, yeah.
So my question we're going tosee if we can keep.
(40:54):
I think I know enough of ourlisteners to know that they're
going to stay with us, but I'm Iguess we can tell the story now
, because I did it real timelast time is that I truly felt
like I looked in your eyes for30 seconds last time and when we
did the edit and played it backI timed it out was 14 seconds.
Stacey (41:10):
Yeah, it wasn't very long.
Brian (41:12):
No, I'm going to play this one and this is going to be
.
I think I want to talk.
I didn't want to do a question.
I want to talk to you aboutthis.
Stacey (41:20):
Okay.
Brian (41:26):
And you know if you want to take.
You know I don't know if youwant to take some notes as we do
it, but I think this was I wantto.
This one's been reallyaffecting me lately.
It's the artist is AddieGoldstein and it's the words are
from a gentleman named AlanWatts.
Okay, and I've been listeningto this a lot lately.
Burgs (41:40):
But you know, if you talk all the time, you'll never hear
what anybody else has to sayand therefore all you'll have to
talk about is your ownconversation.
The same is true for people whothink all the time.
That means, when I use the wordthink, talking to yourself,
(42:01):
subvocal conversation, theconstant chit-chat of symbols
and images and talk and wordsinside your skull.
Now, if you do that all thetime, you'll find that you've
nothing to think about exceptthinking.
Just as you have to stoptalking to hear what others have
to say, you have to stopthinking to find out what life
(42:22):
is about.
And the moment you stopthinking, you become into
immediate contact with whatKorzybski called, so
delightfully, the unspeakableworld.
The most ordinary sights andsounds, smells, the texture of
shadows on the floor in front ofyou.
All these things without beingnamed and saying that's a shadow
(42:46):
, that's red, that's brown,that's somebody's foot.
When you don't name things anylonger, you start seeing,
because, say, when a person saysI see a leaf, immediately one
thinks of a spearhead shapedthing outlined in black and
filled in with flat green.
No, leaf looks like that, noleaves.
(43:08):
Leaves are not green.
That's why Lao Tzu said the fivecolors make a man blind.
The five tones make a man deaf,because if you can only see five
colors, you're blind, and ifyou can only hear five tones in
music, you're deaf.
See, if you, if you force soundinto five tones, you force color
(43:31):
into five colors, you're blindand deaf.
The world of color is infinite,as in the world of sound, and
it is only through stoppingfixing conceptions on the world
of color is infinite, as is theworld of sound, and it is only
through stopping fixingconceptions on the world of
color and sound that you reallybegin to hear it and see it.
So let me say again, I'm nottalking about the ordering of
(43:54):
ordinary, everyday life in areasonable and methodical way as
being school teachers andsaying it nice, if you were nice
people, that's what you woulddo.
Heaven's sake, don't be nicepeople.
But the thing is that unlessyou do have that basic framework
(44:15):
of a certain kind of order anda certain kind of discipline,
the force of liberation willblow the world to pieces.
It's too strong a current forthe wire there's so much to
(44:38):
think about there.
Brian (44:39):
That's what I thought.
It's kind of deep right.
It's like there's so I mean,like stream of consciousness,
what hits you the most out ofthat.
Stacey (44:50):
I think we sometimes how do I say this?
We don't have words or maybedon't need words to explain our
experience, Because if it'slimited to words, we maybe lose
the richness of it.
Brian (45:10):
Yeah, and the one that hit me for this one and it was
really like just in the face isI always felt so literally till
I heard this, like six monthsago, is I always felt so
literally till I heard this,like six months ago, I always
felt so intimate and socomfortable with the nonstop
thoughts in my head.
(45:31):
It's all I do.
It's all I do, and maybe it'ssomething that has to do with
like what we talked about whenyou outed me last week on OCD or
something like that.
But I can't stop doing that andI've always thought it to be
one of the best things about methat I'm processing,
strategizing, thinking,analyzing big stuff.
(45:51):
It doesn't stress me out, it'speaceful.
But he comes out and says ifyou talk all the time, you will
never hear what anybody else hasto say.
I've gotten over that as lifegoes on.
Age is great.
You give more space.
This podcast is good.
I always kind of look at ournumbers when it does the
transcription.
We're 48, 52, 49, 51.
It works out.
It just kind of works out, andthis is a good lesson in that
(46:13):
and therefore all you have to dois, and therefore, all you have
to talk about is your ownconversations.
This, all you have to talkabout is your own conversations.
This next one the same is truefor people who think all the
time.
That means, when I use the wordthink, talking to yourself,
sub-vocal conversation, theconstant chit-chat of symbols
and images, and talk in wordsinside your skull.
Now, if you do that all thetime, you'll find that you have
(46:34):
nothing to think about exceptthinking.
It's the same problem.
It is, except thinking it's thesame problem.
It is Clearly.
You know, I've tried.
You try to overcomeover-talking somebody and
basically dominating a room, andif you're just talking, talking
, then you're just hearingyourself talk.
But I've always felt reallyprivate in my thoughts, right,
(46:55):
and so I've been trying more andmore.
As you know, I even wrote aneditorial about it, like this
meditation thing.
I will tell you one thing Ijust realized that I've never
done this before.
That's as focused I've been onthis words in this podcast than
I've ever been in a sauna ortrying to do it anywhere else.
So that's an interesting, weirdthing that maybe it's the room
or there's nothing else to doright now, but that's the first
(47:17):
time looking down at the words,the lyrics on it.
Stacey (47:21):
There wasn't anything else to focus on.
Brian (47:23):
That's the first time I've gone all the way through
like that.
Stacey (47:25):
Really.
Brian (47:26):
Yeah, so that was.
You know that's a big one.
And then the last one.
I'm curious to see what youthink of this one, so I want to
go back a little bit.
It's this one, the force, this.
Stacey (47:37):
Something about the liberation of something or other
.
The force this.
Something about the liberationof something or other.
Brian (47:40):
It's that.
Forget this first part.
The one I want to get to isit's this thing about the force
of liberation will blow theworld to pieces.
It's too strong a current forthe wire.
He's talking about order.
Let's see if he can come backin here.
This last part.
Burgs (47:57):
This be nice people, but the thing, is that unless you do
have that basic framework of acertain kind of order and a
certain kind of discipline, theforce of liberation will blow
the world to pieces.
It's too strong a current forthe wire.
Brian (48:18):
What do you think that means?
Do you get anything out of that?
Stacey (48:21):
Well, I think what he's saying is even with liberation,
we need to have some sort oforder, because without any kind
of order, it's chaos.
Brian (48:38):
Yeah, that's it, and it can't be more beautifully said
than that.
You mean the way he said it.
Stacey (48:44):
It's interesting because I think we often feel like what
we want is just freedom andliberation, and yet what he's
saying is that it's maybe a badthing to have no restraints at
all or disciplines, yeah.
Brian (48:59):
Yeah, disciplines, yeah, yeah, very interesting.
Stacey (49:05):
This is a nice version.
Brian (49:06):
Why.
Stacey (49:08):
Oh, it's a different language, that's right.
Brian (49:11):
Espanol Wow, isn't it beautiful.
Stacey (49:17):
I like it.
It's a pretty language.
Yeah, it's all I hear all day.
I wish I could speak it.
Brian (49:20):
It's a pretty language.
Yeah, that's all I hear all day.
I wish I could speak it.
I wish I hadn't bombed out inhigh school and given up on the
language altogether, did we?
Stacey (49:32):
have any other orders of business?
Brian (49:33):
No, I do have one small one that, as we kind of I think
we kind of mentioned where we'reat, it'll be helpful as we kind
of continue.
This is, if you are listening,whatever you're listening on
Spotify, apple, google, amazonis to leave reviews on the
(49:54):
podcast.
I think it's super helpful Atleast kind of like mark it up
and maybe drop in a line or twoabout what you think about the
podcast or questions you'd wantus to ask.
Things like that it's probablya good place to do it and I
think it'll also kind of help usas we're trying to kind of work
on the management side of itwith vibes.
We're starting to do more andmore podcast management.
Stacey (50:13):
I'm just super curious to hear what people think and
what they'd like to hear.
You know, I think it would beinteresting.
Brian (50:21):
And are you ready to do a quick review?
Stacey (50:24):
Okay.
Brian (50:25):
I don't know what we're reviewing, but we will right now
.
What is it, babe?
It's Pharrell.
Piece by piece Lego movie.
Yeah, piece, Piece by pieceLego movie.
Stacey (50:42):
Yeah, surprisingly a Lego movie and it was fun.
Well what's your review?
Brian (50:54):
You put so much pressure on me to get a precise.
Oh, let's talk aboutgeneralities first.
I don't need a number.
A number comes at the end.
Stacey (50:58):
Well, it was sort of like his life story.
My favorite part is when hetalked about synesthesia, which
is a condition he has in whichhe sees color as sound.
He hears something and heperceives it as color, and that
(51:21):
depicted in the Lego movie wasamazing.
Brian (51:24):
It's incredible right.
Stacey (51:24):
Yeah, he, I didn't really know much about him.
What a very likable person heis and very talented, incredibly
creative, and so many otherpeople that he's worked with
were a part of this.
Brian (51:39):
Yeah, Lego bricks tell the life story of
singer-songwriter and recordproducer Pharrell Williams.
Pharrell or Pharrell.
Stacey (51:45):
I always thought it was Pharrell Pharrell.
Brian (51:47):
Williams from his childhood in Virginia to his
success in the music and fashionindustry.
It's that simple, I think thething that I enjoyed so much is
one I'm a huge fan of those Legomovies to start with is one I'm
a huge fan of those lego moviesto start with, but as they kind
of depicted the beginning ofthe movie, um, I think it was
organic, as told, that theeasiest way for him to tell his
(52:11):
entire story without boundariesis through the lego builder, and
it was incredible to me becauseI'm a fan of that platform.
I think it's incredible whatthey've done with the basic Lego
movies and some of the BatmanLegos and things like that.
So what was your final number?
What'd you give it?
Stacey (52:31):
I would probably give it an 8.3.
Brian (52:38):
Well, that's a big one.
I'm going to go a little bithigher because I think I'm going
to go higher on this one,because I enjoyed it sitting
there.
But I also think in a way it'spossibly groundbreaking doing a
documentary that way and MissyElliott and all of them to
(52:58):
basically have a classic,literally by the book, classic
documentary, sitting in chairsin studios, in living rooms and
have it seamlessly done with theflashbacks and the you know the
emotions there, all of it'sthere, his family dynamics there
.
So I'm going 9.1.
(53:18):
It's a big one for me because Ido think it's a little bit of a
groundbreaker.
All right, babe, give me anumber between one, and I'm not
going to do that much again.
One in 12.
Stacey (53:29):
Three.
Brian (53:30):
Oh, very low.
Let's see what we get here.
We are on to our.
Let's see, I got to get on toour little playlist here and
we're going to do this littleplaylist here and we're going to
do this, Brian and for others,let's play it.
And it's always cause MacMiller always starts it.
That's where we go, though.
Three, one, two, three, dang it.
(53:52):
It's a good song, though.
Do you know it?
Stacey (53:58):
Not yet.
Oh, it's yours.
Do you know it?
Not yet, oh.
Brian (54:08):
It's yours For sure.
Stacey (54:11):
But the question is is there anybody else?
Is this Post Malone?
Brian (54:17):
It's Post Malone.
Sign me up, post Malone, and itPost Malone, and it is 3,
bailey Stacey.
You must have it on yours, tayand Brian.
It's almost the whole family.
Alright babe, we're out of here.
Look at that 54 minutes.
It's our normal 55.
We're back in the game.
Stacey (54:35):
That was fun.
Love you.
Ready to go?
Yep.
Stacey (00:03):
This is the Broken Tiles Podcast.
Brian (00:09):
Still can't get over it.
Stacey (00:11):
Get over what.
Brian (00:12):
That intro.
Stacey (00:13):
It's awesome.
Brian (00:17):
Select a seven.
Select a seven At select aseven on Instagram I think
that's kind of his best handle.
He's got all of his link treeum connections on there.
Uh does a lot of differentkinds of work.
We talked about superappreciate this.
We'll break out What'd he doThree or four different, five
different intros for us to playaround with.
(00:38):
Yeah, that's right I couldn'tfind it, so we went with you two
times in a row.
Babe, how are you?
Stacey (00:45):
I'm okay.
How are you?
Brian (00:47):
How was therapy?
Stacey (00:48):
It was very good.
Brian (00:50):
Should we kick off a little bit of therapy in broad
terms.
Sure, I don't know what you'rethinking, but Well, I think
there's the fact that we'redoing it on a Tuesday again.
You just walked out of therapylike a hot minute ago.
Yes, feels like maybe I thinkwe did last week or two weeks
ago um, any broad topics to kindof like talk about and maybe we
(01:14):
can pass on and people can talkabout shit or talk shit about
you?
Stacey (01:20):
yeah, they could certainly do that.
I would say in general termsthat well, it actually.
I brought two situations totalk about, but they really are
the same topic.
Uh, letting go of things thatdon't concern me or don't have
(01:53):
to concern me, that I seem towant to help and change
situations that aren't mine tochange.
Brian (01:57):
Uh, work life, um, like like past history, history,
everything, family, family, yeah, that's, um, I think that
possibly is in a way, um,everybody's a little different,
but in a way that might be oneof the hardest things,
especially from a parentstandpoint.
Yeah, to let things go that youhave no control over.
(02:22):
Is that what you said?
No control over?
Stacey (02:26):
Yeah, and it's not my place to try to fix it for
somebody else.
Brian (02:32):
That's the weird line.
That's the weird line becauseall it is is your place, from
zero to 18.
Stacey (02:38):
Right.
Brian (02:38):
It's your very specific place, it's the charter, it's
your place, and I'm talking notnecessarily by emotion.
I guess what I'm talking aboutis by the weird world and place
we live in legally.
Stacey (02:54):
Yeah, but I think there's a difference between
fixing and guiding.
And then I mean, really, whatwe're supposed to do as parents
is to guide our children tobecome fully functioning members
of the community, adults ableto have healthy relationships of
(03:15):
their own, not fix things forthem.
You know what I'm saying.
Brian (03:21):
No, I know exactly what you're saying.
You know, as far as um it'sthat classic story of you can
keep them even you cannot.
You put like gates around theradiator or in a way they can
possibly maybe rub up against itor touch it and they'll learn
themselves not to touch it again.
So you can either keep um allof those little variables and
(03:41):
circumstances and scary thingsaway and eventually it's going
to land.
Yeah yeah, that's a heavy one.
Stacey (03:49):
But even that desire to help is it's not just zeroed in
on one's kids, I mean, it can goto different relationships too,
different relationships too.
And so it's like how do youfigure out how to balance
between compassion and wantingto be supportive?
(04:11):
I just there can be a line thatyou cross and at what point do
you determine, oh, I need tokeep my own self safe and keep
my own boundaries, that's.
I think that's what I'mstruggling with.
Brian (04:30):
Does she get to the core ?
My gut feeling this is whatwill be interesting to see what
you say if you go down this pathis is our inclination to do
that?
To say control an outcome of anuncontrollable event?
Maybe it is even controllable.
It's probably not fair to saycontrol an outcome of an
uncontrollable event.
Maybe it is even controllable.
It's probably not fair to sayMaybe it's not yours.
to control is maybe the betterthing, but is it based in
(04:52):
insecurity?
Do you think like?
I guess the question is thisinstead of being kind of like so
kind of obscure about it is whywould we give a fuck about
somebody else that way and wanta result that we have in mind
for them?
It's kind of a weird thing,right?
Stacey (05:10):
Yeah, I think I understand what you're getting
at.
Brian (05:13):
That's amazing, because that was very confusing.
Stacey (05:14):
I know I don't know if anybody listening will
understand what you're gettingat, but I think what you're
saying is let's see how can Iput it into a different term.
Is let's see how can I put itinto a different term For doing
something for our ownself-gratification.
Is that what you're trying toget at?
Brian (05:31):
No what I'm saying, I'm going down to the root of it,
like we're cruising along andeventually I'm wondering my end
result is I think it's aninsecurity that we would want to
control somebody else'sdirection in their life or an
outcome of a result and I don'teven know why I would say that,
but I can't think a murder trial.
What's my motivation to controla result for somebody else on
(05:52):
the planet, like why do I evenstart there?
I'm going deep, deep into it,like like we do do that and it
is hard to let go of things wecan't control.
The question is why do we wantto control things?
Stacey (06:06):
Oh yeah.
Brian (06:15):
Because things that feel out of control is so
uncomfortable.
But in theory and this is wherewe're getting into the deep,
high weeds is if we know thathaving control is going to give
us a security and being out ofcontrol is something that gives
us anxiety.
We want to take control fromsomebody.
It's, that's the, that's thefuck.
I guess that's the roundaboutthing I'm getting is for us to
(06:37):
kind of feel so really, what wewant to do is control our little
environment by controlling anarrative or something else in
somebody else and in essence,what you're doing is you're
taking from them the thingthat's giving you the stress,
which would be an ability tolearn, control or control their
own lives or control a situation.
Does that make sense?
I'm really rambling aroundtoday, but does that kind of
(07:00):
make sense what I'm saying?
Stacey (07:01):
I think it makes sense what you're saying.
Brian (07:03):
It's kind of it's sort of it's kind of messed up in a
way.
I kind of like thisconversation because, like
everything else, I think I likegoing deeper into the
motivations of why we do what wedo and why we lose so much time
.
So here's the thing you lay ona couch, I'm assuming, and she's
smoking a pipe and sitting in ahigh red back chair.
Stacey (07:24):
In a tweed coat with leather patches on her elbows.
Brian (07:27):
That's exactly it, and the lights are kind of dim.
Stacey (07:29):
No, Right, the lights were dim.
Brian (07:31):
And you're laying flat on the couch with a little it's
like a leather couch and yourhead's on a round firm pillow,
and then she's sitting with herlegs crossed smoking a pipe and
there's like a smoke in the airwhile you're talking.
And there's like a smoke in theair while you're talking and
(07:57):
she has a beard.
Not at all.
And this will be a teaser, formine is if you're thinking all
the time, it's the same problemas talking all the time.
And if I'm thinking about, I'moverthinking even this part of
it, but I don't know if I'moverthinking it as much as I'm
really curious about it.
I'm curious about agendas, I'mcurious about what makes us,
(08:18):
because we all do it.
I do it at work, I do it atwork with people, I do it in
relationships.
I've done it over a period oftime.
You have an inclination.
What's that?
Stacey (08:29):
It's solving for something, yeah, and somebody
(08:55):
that's, I don't know, in themidst of a chaotic situation.
I want to help quell the chaos,likely because growing up there
were chaotic situations at homeand that was really hard to
live with and I just wanted tofigure out a way to make the
chaos stop.
Brian (09:10):
Right.
Stacey (09:11):
And so if it happens now , even if it's not my chaos to
solve, I still want to figureout how to solve it.
Interesting, Because I'm veryuncomfortable with it, and then
this is great.
Brian (09:21):
This is actually a great way to talk about a therapy
session.
We haven't talked about shit asfar as interpersonal.
Did you come out with anyshareable fundamentals?
Do you think today's sessionlike there's quite a few people
that listen and is there asimple like?
Stacey (09:34):
again, not not diagnosing other people, but
really about recognizing what isand isn't my, isn't my, my
responsibility, you know?
Um, really, I mean, I have totake a step backwards and be
objective and think, okay, whoseproblem is this?
(09:55):
And, uh, is it actually mine tosolve?
Brian (10:00):
Interesting, and are you actually?
Stacey (10:03):
and usually it's not mine to solve.
Brian (10:04):
And there's probably the we've had this conversation
many times about raising kids isthat you're actually most
likely setting them back ordoing long term harm by solving
it for them.
Stacey (10:17):
Yeah.
Brian (10:17):
It's a it's not helpful.
Stacey (10:19):
No, this isn't just about kids.
Brian (10:22):
You know, there's other situations that I find I want to
intercede, yeah when we talkabout this I'm talking about,
this is such a broad topic.
Stacey (10:32):
I think we're talking about work, relationships, kids,
you know it goes and otherrelationships, other
relationships, just friendshipsand stuff.
Absolutely I think it's onesingle conversation and stuff.
I think it's one singleconversation.
Well, okay, so here's what shesuggested is to really dive into
some of the literature aboutcodependency, because
codependency that body ofliterature and that thought
(10:55):
process, was originally gearedtowards people in relationship
with somebody with addictionissues, whether it be alcohol or
drugs or whatever it might be.
But the same philosophies standtrue for mental illness or
(11:17):
somebody that's just typicallychaotic I can't think of a
better word for it nointeresting.
Brian (11:22):
Codependency is a circular relationship in which
one person needs the otherperson who, in turn, needs to be
needed.
The codependent person, knownas the giver, feels worthless
unless they are needed, by andmaking sacrifices for the
enabler, otherwise known as thetaker.
Stacey (11:38):
Yeah, damn Interesting, isn't it?
It is.
Brian (11:42):
Yeah, so many times I go through my 56 plus, whatever
days and months it is, and I'venever looked that up.
Tayler (11:48):
Oh you haven't?
Brian (11:49):
I don't think so.
Why would I?
I take it in the context of aconversation and you get the
gist of it.
But how many times do you everstop and just kind of say maybe
I shouldn't take the gist of it?
Stacey (12:01):
Yeah.
Brian (12:02):
So that's interesting.
I'm down yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
So much is like you know, butthat classic boundaries,
boundaries, and then that, andthen if, eventually, if you are
going to step in, maybe what youneed to do is you've qualified
(12:28):
it by setting the boundaries,that if you feel, if you have to
go over a boundary, you've setstrong enough boundaries, that
maybe you've used that wordagain qualified it a little more
that you're're going to step inone of a hundred times, rather
than 60 of a hundred times or 70of a hundred.
Stacey (12:44):
Yeah, but ideally you don't step in when it's not
yours to fix.
Brian (12:48):
But that stresses me out .
Stacey (12:50):
I know, man, but that's where and also coming up with
ways.
It's almost like having apersonal rule, like, say, you
have a friend who is just almostlike an emotional vampire in a
(13:13):
sense and you recognize thatit's not good for you to stay on
the phone for a long time withthis person because they just
take a lot out of you, and soyou can set this boundary or a
personal rule of okay, I'm goingto give this person a 10-minute
phone call, as opposed to thehour and a half we might
normally do.
And so you even start off thecall saying, okay, before we get
(13:36):
started, I've got to be off thephone in 10 minutes or whatever
.
So you give that person thattime and you're fully present
and you approach it withcompassion, and then you're done
.
Brian (13:50):
I like the what we do in the shadows reference you just
gave with the emotional vampires.
Question is did emotionalvampires exist before what we
did in the shadows?
Yes, it does exist.
That word exists before thatshow that phrase.
Stacey (14:02):
yeah.
Brian (14:02):
It does, yeah, and we know a lot, we know, I know, we
all.
Stacey (14:07):
We all know.
Not only do we know, I thinkeverybody does, and I think we
all have done it.
Yeah, I think that's probablytrue at one point or another.
Brian (14:27):
I another.
I'm on definitions right now.
Stacey (14:28):
Okay, now, what An emotional vampire, someone who
drains the energy of othersthrough manipulation, guilt,
tripping and other behaviors.
Brian (14:32):
Wow yeah, I'm looking right at you, babe.
Uncool.
So that's any more in thesession, or is that pretty good?
Stacey (14:35):
Well, you know me, I'm a slow processor.
I just left, I got to keepthinking.
Brian (14:41):
I know what to do when that happens.
Much better producing thisepisode than last so far.
Yeah, knock on wood, I shoulddo that.
Let me get this one out of theway and I'll even play it again,
but do it right at the top here, because I think that's the way
we should be doing.
It is.
We are downtown in Santa Cruzat Satellite Coworking Space and
(15:04):
Digital Media Studio.
Satellite Santa Cruz andDigital Media Studio is the
office, workspace and studio youneed coworking, private offices
, virtual office plans, videoproduction studio, video editing
suites, meeting and conferencerooms, available when you need
it, 24-7.
We've got our FOB.
I've come in late, early.
Commercial (15:23):
This place is amazing Satellitecommunitytvorg.
Brian (15:28):
Or you can just call Olivia at 831-531-2300.
Schedule the tour.
That's how it all started forme and we've been using it.
I think I'm going to call thisroom because we're using all the
studios for different thingsGot the big TV studio for the,
you know, the larger podcastsand the cameras and stuff like
that.
I think I'm going to call thisone the cubby.
Stacey (15:51):
Oh, I like that.
Brian (15:52):
Yeah, so when we work in here, we're working in the
studio, but it's the cubbystudio, we're just the Cubby.
Question numero uno.
Stacey (16:02):
Okay, so I have taken cards from three different
question games because I'mreally expanding things for us.
First one I'm going to read isfrom the Adventure Challenge
Connection Cards Couples Edition.
Okay, this is kind of cute.
If I were a genre of music,what would I be and why?
Tayler (16:26):
Hmm.
Brian (16:28):
You would be.
I think you would be in the forsure.
I think I'd eventually put youbecause of.
I can't get past your style ofmusic.
You really like sort of theit's not probably the right word
storyteller kind of artists,but the genre would probably be
(16:52):
man.
You have a little bit.
You do tend towards a littlebit shockingly in the twang a
little bit.
Stacey (16:58):
I'm a little bit country .
You are a little bit rock androll.
You are a little bit.
I'm a little bit country, youare A little bit rock and roll.
Brian (17:01):
You are a little bit so I don't even know what that's
called Like, what's the?
I don't know.
Would it be?
Would it be?
Stacey (17:06):
Well, Rhett Miller calls his music alt country.
Brian (17:09):
It's not quite all the way, though.
Stacey (17:11):
Americana.
I've heard Americana, I I wouldcall you alt-indie country.
Brian (17:25):
No, alt-indie, Alt-indie With a twang.
Can we do that?
We can stop doing that now.
So if you were a genre music,it would be alt-indie.
I'm going to say this because Ithink it's more.
But alt-indie rock is reallykind of an existing one.
I got to get that twang inthere.
Alt-indie.
I'm going to say this because Ithink it's more.
But alt-indie rock is reallykind of an existing one.
I got to get that twang inthere.
Alt-indie, twang.
Stacey (17:44):
Yeah, I like it.
Brian (17:45):
That's your genre.
Alt-indie twang.
Stacey (17:47):
You just made that up.
Brian (17:48):
I did.
It works and that's the one Igive to you.
That is what I like.
Stacey (17:50):
Yeah, but what if you were about, like, a personality
style?
Okay, I'm going to tell youwhat I've thought of for you,
but I don't know what the genreis called.
Brian (18:03):
Ooh, honey, that's Taylor Upton.
We're supposed to always takeit when the kids call in.
Stacey (18:07):
I know.
Brian (18:08):
We have a rule.
Should we try it, Taylor?
Taylor, you're on the podcast,Taylor.
We have a rule that if any ofthe kids ever call in as crappy
as your connection is right nowand you're on your phone, which
is on your speaker, which meansit's going to be horrible, yeah,
(18:30):
see.
Tayler (18:30):
Is this better?
Brian (18:31):
Way better.
Tayler (18:33):
Only the best to the podcast.
Brian (18:35):
Okay, so we'll call you after we're done here, but
you're going to have to answerthe question.
We're on right now and you haveto answer it for both of us and
then we'll answer it for you.
Stacey (18:43):
Okay, I'm ready, all right.
Okay, if I were a genre ofmusic, what would I be and why?
Tayler (18:51):
Whatever, because it's relaxing you just cut out.
Brian (18:57):
You cut out a little bit , say that again, hold on.
Tayler (19:02):
Okay, I was just making you off Bluetooth.
I said whatever genre Enyafalls into you, because it's
relaxing and it's what youbirthed me to.
Brian (19:10):
That's very true.
And then the same question forme, which is if I were genre
music, what would it be?
Tayler (19:19):
Maybe like bad 80s rap, but like that's catchy.
Brian (19:24):
Bad catchy 80s rap.
That's pretty good, yes, likesome just the good stuff.
Tayler (19:32):
You can't turn it off but you don't really want to
share it with, like the worldmight not like it, but we always
like it.
Brian (19:42):
So it'd be like something like maybe this Hold
on.
Tayler (19:46):
You can't hear this, but it's playing.
Brian (19:49):
Let it play for a second .
This is for the people, this iskid and play and this is some
old school eighties cheese.
Tayler (19:59):
Very myself.
Brian (20:00):
Like something like that right.
Tayler (20:02):
Yeah, like the stuff that goes.
Like that was it.
That's a-ha, taylor, you shouldplay a little bit of what mom
sounds like.
Brian (20:12):
I came up with a genre of music for mom, and it's
called alt-indie twang.
I made up a genre what's mine?
Oh, that's a good questionWe've got to answer for Taylor.
Stacey (20:22):
Well, Taylor is a powerful woman.
Is there a genre that would belike queens?
Brian (20:30):
No, get out of here.
It's ridiculous.
Keep going.
This is outrageous.
Stacey (20:35):
I'll listen.
I don't know what differentgenres are called, but I'm
thinking of powerful voices.
Tayler (20:43):
I'm thinking like Beyonce, Lady Gaga.
Brian (20:47):
My answer is just simply it's going to be a genre that
will be created aftereverybody's come and gone, but
she is Lady Gaga-esque.
Tayler (20:54):
Oh, that works, but with the ability to dance like
Shakira.
Stacey (20:59):
But can you dance like Shakira?
Tayler (21:01):
No, no, but I like to think I can if I wanted to and
applied myself to learning.
Brian (21:07):
All right, okay, we're dumping you, we're going to
finish this Wait.
Tayler (21:09):
is she called?
Brian (21:10):
Is there an emergency?
Is there an emergency, Taylor?
Tayler (21:13):
No, I was just coming to say hi, oh good.
Brian (21:23):
Well say hi, oh good, well, we'll call you later then.
We love you I love you.
Stacey (21:25):
Bye, you were going to start what was?
Did you answer mine or no?
You're gonna lean into it, sotell me what genre is luther
vandross?
Brian (21:30):
oh, that's just like um, that's soul music well.
Stacey (21:34):
So that's, that's what I think of you.
I think of Luther Vandross,because you've got a lot of soul
, you're very deep, but you alsohave a really big libido.
Brian (21:50):
And that was the I'm getting lucky music in the 80s.
Yeah, that's what that is.
Yep, that's Brian Upton.
This is my music, this is me,that's your genre.
I'm gonna type in uh, I'm gonnatype in alt, indie twang and
(22:11):
see what comes up on spotifyright now happens all indie
twang, oh, indie Twang, indietwang.
But it's actually good.
Stacey (22:27):
Let's see oh yep, that's me.
It's not bad, not bad at all.
Brian (22:36):
So the bottom line is I won the question.
Stacey (22:40):
I didn't know we were winning these.
Brian (22:43):
You said I'm a cheesy soul singer from the 80s.
No, Luther's not cheesy.
Stacey (22:47):
No, he's not.
Brian (22:47):
Luther was the man.
I see that as a high compliment.
Stacey (22:49):
It is a high compliment.
Brian (22:52):
And so this is a very shallow green question, but if
we were to broaden it out, youknow to like, like we always do,
maybe an interesting questionto ask, not on, clearly not a
first date question.
Stacey (23:07):
It's fun.
Yeah, it's somebody.
You got to know them wellenough to try to.
Brian (23:11):
But not too well.
Maybe after, like you know,maybe after X amount of dates,
or a year, or whatever it mightbe it might be fun to start Like
.
It's like you know what I thinkI'd consider it.
I think I'd consider it like agood check-in kind of question.
Years or a year, two years inthe relationship.
How are you seeing me?
Like are you a million milesaway?
(23:31):
Have you never thought of it?
You know as far as you knowthose kind of questions.
I think on that podcast you didwith Mike Howard the other day.
I was listening to one of thequestions and it made me think
about he did some counseling andit doesn't narrow it down who
he counseled, but he saidsomething off the cuff and he
(23:52):
said it to me before and that'son the Mike Howard show is the.
Unpacked and Naked podcast.
But he said something casually.
He said, like when he counseledpeople about like kind of like
getting to questions like this,he was, he said, just alluded to
the fact some people don't knowthe color of their partner's
eyes.
Yeah, check in here and therewith you know, with your partner
(24:20):
, even on something as obscureas that could be helpful.
Right, you all right there,babe.
Stacey (24:26):
I was trying to cough quietly.
Brian (24:28):
Get some.
It's not working out, get some.
What we'll do is, when in doubt, we can always go to a
commercial break.
If needed, you back with me.
To a commercial break.
If needed, you back with me,mm-hmm.
And so do you agree with thatas far as possibly a good way to
loosen it up a little bit?
Stacey (24:45):
Yeah, I think so.
Brian (24:47):
All right, let's go.
The next one's got to be alittle bit deeper babe, I'm
sorry, I keep coughing.
Tayler (24:56):
Uh-oh.
Stacey (24:58):
Okay, so this is from a deck of cards by a company
called the, and I don't know whyI keep coughing, sorry.
Brian (25:09):
You don't want to drink that tea, do you?
Stacey (25:12):
No, I don't that will ruin me.
Brian (25:18):
Let me take it over a little bit.
What's the unexpected gift wereceive from this, from a
mistake we've made?
Oh, we might be in trouble.
Stacey (25:26):
I think I'm back.
Brian (25:26):
You are back.
What's the unexpected giftwe've received from a mistake
we've made?
Stacey (25:34):
Oh, Can I tell you what first came to my mind?
Brian (25:37):
Yeah, I guess.
Stacey (25:39):
Ainsley.
Brian (25:40):
Oh man, A whole human being.
Stacey (25:43):
A whole human being.
She's pretty delightful.
Brian (25:46):
She was the classic and she knows this.
We're not breaking news on it.
She was the classic oops baby.
That's a good one, though.
Stacey (25:56):
Yeah.
Brian (25:57):
I think that's a gift.
Yeah, I think it's aninteresting way to look at that
though.
Stacey (25:59):
Yeah, I think that's a gift.
Brian (25:59):
Yeah, I think it's an interesting way to look at that
because there's, there's.
I think that's the only way welook at it and I think we would
have been, you know, whatever Ithink we joked about it before
at some point that you know youhave Bailey and you have X
amount of days before you canbasically participate in
(26:19):
activities again that makebabies, and we weren't too far
off the day or the week.
It was pretty close to waitthis long.
Stacey (26:28):
Well, you have to wait six weeks.
It was six months later and Iwas pregnant again, but that's
because of breastfeedingBreastfeeding.
If you're breastfeedingconsistently, it can be.
It's not a fail safe, but itcan work as birth control.
It keeps you from ovulating.
Brian (26:49):
I never had them that far apart.
So July, august, september,october, so they're four months
apart and it takes nine monthsapparently to produce a baby To
grow a baby.
All right, all right, and so itwas pretty fast.
It was still, I think, in thecategory of oops and it was the
(27:10):
most amazing oops of all time.
Stacey (27:12):
Yeah, quite awesome yeah .
We were excited.
Brian (27:17):
Very.
Stacey (27:19):
Do you have any other ideas about a mistake that a
gift for?
Oh, I have another idea.
Go ahead.
I guess you could call itbusiness mistakes.
We went through a really roughtime with a partner of yours
that had embezzled money.
Brian (27:42):
I stole all my shit.
Stacey (27:43):
Yeah, and it was extremely hard, but we
definitely grew closer over thatand really reevaluated what was
important to us and it became agood thing in the end and the
mistake was the mistake was.
(28:05):
I don't know.
I don't want to say trustinghim, but maybe um, not being as
aware of like staying on top ofbusiness things as I think it is
.
Brian (28:19):
I think the answer is the mistake and it's.
I kind of said that knowingwhat my answer would be.
Is it?
The mistake was trust, and thatthe mistake is trust does not
have the same standing in abusiness relationship as it does
in a personal relationship.
Oh in my mind it exists for sure, you know, but the trust that
(28:41):
exists in the kind of confinesof a business relationship kind
of go more down the lines oftrusting that it's a safe
environment to work, that it's ahealthy environment to work,
that you know that everything isabove board, and that's the
thing that I trusted him, like abrother and the godfather of
(29:04):
our daughter, the oops baby.
It has to be in its owncategory that if you trust
(29:25):
somebody like a brother, or agodfather to your daughter.
you still should check all ofthose accounts.
You still should check thatyou're not just taking your
quarterly kind of like smallcommissions and 3,000 miles away
hoping everything's going okayin Colorado.
Hoping everything's going okayin Colorado, yeah.
And so I think the problemthere was that the trust of a
(29:49):
friend was used in theday-to-day business and it
doesn't have a place there.
It can still exist, but itdoesn't have the same standings.
Does that make sense?
Stacey (29:56):
Yeah, yeah, because business is still business, I
guess.
Brian (29:59):
Yeah.
Stacey (30:00):
In the end I still business.
I guess, yeah, in the end.
Brian (30:02):
I don't know if we got to the other side of that.
I don't know if that was youranswer or mine.
Stacey (30:07):
I gave two.
Did you have another one?
Brian (30:10):
No, I think if I was going to land on a mistake, that
that came with an unexpectedgift.
Unexpected gift.
I think it would somehow kindof land probably for me in that,
the big swings of our life.
It has to be that trying to digif there's anything else that
(30:34):
jumps out at me that would havepossibly, you know, kind of
risen to that level a mistake.
It's a really good question.
It is.
I think I'm going to land onthat one, because that was kind
of my default as far as what itfundamentally changed me.
That mistake in trusting himled to a long-term kind of like
(30:59):
you know catastrophic result,and the gift was that you know
the perspective that nothing isforever.
It felt like forever.
It's not.
And then also possibly, how youkind of go about.
You know your dealings and youknow the way you see and trust
people.
It's an interesting take.
Stacey (31:23):
Yeah, it is because, you know, it seems often it seems
like the right thing to do istrust somebody that you've had
deep conversations with.
It seems strange to to make thedecision to be careful about
that trust, and yet I think wehave to be.
Brian (31:44):
Yeah, there's no doubt we do, and so I think that's a
good one.
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Brian (32:09):
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Stacey (32:19):
His name sounds familiar , but I don't know.
Brian (32:21):
Well, you would know, I'm going to go out on a limb
and then we'll kind of verify itlater, but I think it's oatmeal
.
Didn't he slop oatmeal?
Stacey (32:29):
in the 70s.
Yeah, I think you're right.
Something like that Quakeroatmeal, yeah, quaker oatmeal.
Brian (32:39):
Are you on?
Three already Simple littlequestions today what you got.
Stacey (32:43):
Okay, this comes from Esther Perel's box, a game
called when Should we Begin, andthis is a conversation card
where it just gives us a promptthat we have to finish.
Brian (33:06):
In my recurring dream, I am so we have to share about a
recurring dream, wow.
Stacey (33:12):
Are you ready to go, since you kind of knew it?
I know I've had other recurringdreams.
Oh yeah, this is a more recentone.
I was going to share one fromchildhood, but it's been a while
since.
I've had other recurring dreams.
Oh yeah, this is a more recentone.
I was going to share one fromchildhood, but it's been a while
since I've had that.
So a more recent one I haveevery so often is we are in a
house that we have to be out ofin the next day and we haven't
(33:37):
packed anything and you've left.
Brian (33:40):
Sounds like us.
Stacey (33:41):
And I have to pack.
Brian (33:43):
And I'm stressed.
Why do you think you have thisdream?
Stacey (33:48):
Why don't you tell me?
Brian (33:51):
I mean, there's the couch one, which is you're
completely dissatisfied, youdon't trust me, you feel like
I'm going to abandon you.
Hold on, you have the invisibleburden that you carry that I am
at any point unreliable to becounted on on any level when
it's meaningful.
But that's not true, though.
(34:21):
Every single vacation we takeoutside of moving from the house
.
But I think, deep down on thecouch with your psychiatrist and
her pipe, it's probably morethe ones I said at the beginning
.
Stacey (34:37):
Oh, at least they're less frequent now what do you
think it means?
Well, it's definitely anxiety.
Um, I can't say it's becauseyou never come through, because
you always do come through.
It just takes a while sometimesyeah, and so you're on
different timelines and maybethat goes back to the very first
(35:01):
thing I was saying.
I want to fix something that'snot mine to fix.
Brian (35:07):
Like you, yeah, like the entirety of me.
Yeah, there's no doubt.
And so the dream again is thatwe're moving and we have a short
period of time and I just takeoff.
Stacey (35:20):
Yeah.
Brian (35:23):
Yeah, that's a damning one.
It's terrible.
My reoccurring dreams with you,if anything, are not one
repeatable on a podcast, and Ialmost feel like you picked this
question just to no, I didn't.
Well, there's a chance thatit's really a.
It's an.
It's an inequitable position,because I think you pick a
(35:43):
question.
You're like I've got a good one, and then I know Brian's going
to be stuck.
Stacey (35:47):
Because I actually try to pick these questions without
choosing them.
I know, I know.
Brian (35:54):
It's a better.
It's a better narrative if it'sintentional for you.
No, the Beto runs wild in mydreams.
It's just been like that sinceI was 12, 13 years old.
The recurring dreams are notalways sexual by any means, but
(36:18):
it does lend towards the I guesswe'll say the romantic side of
it, fantastical side of it.
And that's when the questionwas specifically how do you
appear in my reoccurring dreams?
In my recurring dream I am oh, Idon't know how I got to that
point.
I guess I was the star of yours, but you said you were moving.
(36:41):
Yeah, in my reoccurring dreams,like I thought it was.
I thought it was more like howdo you appear?
When you do appear in mine, Imiss, I misunderstood it.
So I guess in my reoccurringdreams, my reoccurring dreams
are very like they run in aalternate sort of timeline and
universe to the world I'm livingin, just with like a
(37:03):
fantastical turn of ideas.
Like I wake up, a lot of mydreams are the day I had or the
meeting I'm going to have thenext day, or an idea that I had.
But I do have some really kindof and you know, one or two or
three out of every 10 practicalideas come out of those dreams.
(37:23):
Like I think I do a lot of roleplaying in my dreams, like,
like almost like future, hopingor or thinking about the best
possible outcome.
And I think in dreams, for somereason it's sort of my dreams
are fairly, and have always beenfairly cinematic.
You know, when I, when I havethe dreams are very real, but
(37:45):
they're also mostly grounded inwhat I'm doing and the outcome
that I want you know for rightnow I think a lot of times.
I do think about business ideasand different ways to market
and promote vibes or the podcastwith Nellie and things like
that.
Stacey (38:04):
You often wake up and say, oh, I had the best idea.
Yeah, best idea.
Brian (38:08):
When I was writing the book.
I would go to sleep and I wouldcontinue writing the book in my
dreams, or a chapter wouldevolve in the dreams.
I would either scribble it oryou know kind of kind of get
that down.
And there was even like thatlittle documentary that Nellie
and I came up with that we'reworking on with the kind of the
the environment surfing is.
(38:30):
I think all it was scribbleddown the side of the table was
Zac Efron, nellie and AnthonyBourdain.
Yeah, zac Efron.
Nellie and Anthony Bourdain andit took me like three weeks to
figure out why I wrote that down, and then it all kind of came
together.
But I'd say, that's probably.
You know, that's probably whereI kind of land.
Stacey (38:49):
Do you recall having any recurring dreams as a kid?
Brian (38:52):
Yeah, I think we've spoken about this.
I do not.
This question, this question isvery different, but I think.
But it's been so long.
I doubt if it would.
I doubt if it would be, um, uh,I doubt if it would be.
You know, there's been 30 or 20of these, whatever it is.
But my reoccurring dream when Iwas a kid all the way for like
five years, was my second gradeteacher, mrs Cubis, had been in
(39:13):
a car accident and I was awareof that.
And my dream is I'm in my roomand I can't stop myself from
getting out of my bed andwalking down our long hallway at
Orchard Street and I've toldyou this before and she's in the
little glass frame of the doorand she's on fire, but blue.
Oh my gosh and I can't stop fromwalking towards it.
Stacey (39:33):
That's scary.
Brian (39:34):
And I had it for like three years.
Stacey (39:36):
Wow, that really hurt, not every night.
Yeah, I had it for like threeyears.
Brian (39:39):
Wow, that really Not every night, yeah, but you know
more than I wanted, right?
And every single time it's adream within the dream and I
didn't want to get out of bed,but I can't not get out of bed
because I'm watching myself init.
But I had that one, did you?
That's crazy.
Stacey (39:49):
Yeah.
The one I really remember is Iwas in my dream.
I'm in my bed which was a waterbed because those were really
big at that day and age and itwas way high up off the ground
and I look over my bed and onthe floor all around my bed are
black widow spiders.
(40:09):
And I couldn't get out of mybed.
I couldn't go anywhere.
I was like a prisoner in my bedbecause of them.
Brian (40:16):
So you basically dream about moving and not getting
help in Blackwood.
Your dreams are shit.
They are.
You don't have great dreams, doyou?
No, not, really Not really.
No, I mean not like you know.
I'd say 85%, 90% of my dreamsare deeply enjoyable and I like
them, yeah.
So my question we're going tosee if we can keep.
(40:54):
I think I know enough of ourlisteners to know that they're
going to stay with us, but I'm Iguess we can tell the story now
, because I did it real timelast time is that I truly felt
like I looked in your eyes for30 seconds last time and when we
did the edit and played it backI timed it out was 14 seconds.
Stacey (41:10):
Yeah, it wasn't very long.
Brian (41:12):
No, I'm going to play this one and this is going to be
.
I think I want to talk.
I didn't want to do a question.
I want to talk to you aboutthis.
Stacey (41:20):
Okay.
Brian (41:26):
And you know if you want to take.
You know I don't know if youwant to take some notes as we do
it, but I think this was I wantto.
This one's been reallyaffecting me lately.
It's the artist is AddieGoldstein and it's the words are
from a gentleman named AlanWatts.
Okay, and I've been listeningto this a lot lately.
Burgs (41:40):
But you know, if you talk all the time, you'll never hear
what anybody else has to sayand therefore all you'll have to
talk about is your ownconversation.
The same is true for people whothink all the time.
That means, when I use the wordthink, talking to yourself,
(42:01):
subvocal conversation, theconstant chit-chat of symbols
and images and talk and wordsinside your skull.
Now, if you do that all thetime, you'll find that you've
nothing to think about exceptthinking.
Just as you have to stoptalking to hear what others have
to say, you have to stopthinking to find out what life
(42:22):
is about.
And the moment you stopthinking, you become into
immediate contact with whatKorzybski called, so
delightfully, the unspeakableworld.
The most ordinary sights andsounds, smells, the texture of
shadows on the floor in front ofyou.
All these things without beingnamed and saying that's a shadow
(42:46):
, that's red, that's brown,that's somebody's foot.
When you don't name things anylonger, you start seeing,
because, say, when a person saysI see a leaf, immediately one
thinks of a spearhead shapedthing outlined in black and
filled in with flat green.
No, leaf looks like that, noleaves.
(43:08):
Leaves are not green.
That's why Lao Tzu said the fivecolors make a man blind.
The five tones make a man deaf,because if you can only see five
colors, you're blind, and ifyou can only hear five tones in
music, you're deaf.
See, if you, if you force soundinto five tones, you force color
(43:31):
into five colors, you're blindand deaf.
The world of color is infinite,as in the world of sound, and
it is only through stoppingfixing conceptions on the world
of color is infinite, as is theworld of sound, and it is only
through stopping fixingconceptions on the world of
color and sound that you reallybegin to hear it and see it.
So let me say again, I'm nottalking about the ordering of
(43:54):
ordinary, everyday life in areasonable and methodical way as
being school teachers andsaying it nice, if you were nice
people, that's what you woulddo.
Heaven's sake, don't be nicepeople.
But the thing is that unlessyou do have that basic framework
(44:15):
of a certain kind of order anda certain kind of discipline,
the force of liberation willblow the world to pieces.
It's too strong a current forthe wire there's so much to
(44:38):
think about there.
Brian (44:39):
That's what I thought.
It's kind of deep right.
It's like there's so I mean,like stream of consciousness,
what hits you the most out ofthat.
Stacey (44:50):
I think we sometimes how do I say this?
We don't have words or maybedon't need words to explain our
experience, Because if it'slimited to words, we maybe lose
the richness of it.
Brian (45:10):
Yeah, and the one that hit me for this one and it was
really like just in the face isI always felt so literally till
I heard this, like six monthsago, is I always felt so
literally till I heard this,like six months ago, I always
felt so intimate and socomfortable with the nonstop
thoughts in my head.
(45:31):
It's all I do.
It's all I do, and maybe it'ssomething that has to do with
like what we talked about whenyou outed me last week on OCD or
something like that.
But I can't stop doing that andI've always thought it to be
one of the best things about methat I'm processing,
strategizing, thinking,analyzing big stuff.
(45:51):
It doesn't stress me out, it'speaceful.
But he comes out and says ifyou talk all the time, you will
never hear what anybody else hasto say.
I've gotten over that as lifegoes on.
Age is great.
You give more space.
This podcast is good.
I always kind of look at ournumbers when it does the
transcription.
We're 48, 52, 49, 51.
It works out.
It just kind of works out, andthis is a good lesson in that
(46:13):
and therefore all you have to dois, and therefore, all you have
to talk about is your ownconversations.
This, all you have to talkabout is your own conversations.
This next one the same is truefor people who think all the
time.
That means, when I use the wordthink, talking to yourself,
sub-vocal conversation, theconstant chit-chat of symbols
and images, and talk in wordsinside your skull.
Now, if you do that all thetime, you'll find that you have
(46:34):
nothing to think about exceptthinking.
It's the same problem.
It is, except thinking it's thesame problem.
It is Clearly.
You know, I've tried.
You try to overcomeover-talking somebody and
basically dominating a room, andif you're just talking, talking
, then you're just hearingyourself talk.
But I've always felt reallyprivate in my thoughts, right,
(46:55):
and so I've been trying more andmore.
As you know, I even wrote aneditorial about it, like this
meditation thing.
I will tell you one thing Ijust realized that I've never
done this before.
That's as focused I've been onthis words in this podcast than
I've ever been in a sauna ortrying to do it anywhere else.
So that's an interesting, weirdthing that maybe it's the room
or there's nothing else to doright now, but that's the first
(47:17):
time looking down at the words,the lyrics on it.
Stacey (47:21):
There wasn't anything else to focus on.
Brian (47:23):
That's the first time I've gone all the way through
like that.
Stacey (47:25):
Really.
Brian (47:26):
Yeah, so that was.
You know that's a big one.
And then the last one.
I'm curious to see what youthink of this one, so I want to
go back a little bit.
It's this one, the force, this.
Stacey (47:37):
Something about the liberation of something or other
.
The force this.
Something about the liberationof something or other.
Brian (47:40):
It's that.
Forget this first part.
The one I want to get to isit's this thing about the force
of liberation will blow theworld to pieces.
It's too strong a current forthe wire.
He's talking about order.
Let's see if he can come backin here.
This last part.
Burgs (47:57):
This be nice people, but the thing, is that unless you do
have that basic framework of acertain kind of order and a
certain kind of discipline, theforce of liberation will blow
the world to pieces.
It's too strong a current forthe wire.
Brian (48:18):
What do you think that means?
Do you get anything out of that?
Stacey (48:21):
Well, I think what he's saying is even with liberation,
we need to have some sort oforder, because without any kind
of order, it's chaos.
Brian (48:38):
Yeah, that's it, and it can't be more beautifully said
than that.
You mean the way he said it.
Stacey (48:44):
It's interesting because I think we often feel like what
we want is just freedom andliberation, and yet what he's
saying is that it's maybe a badthing to have no restraints at
all or disciplines, yeah.
Brian (48:59):
Yeah, disciplines, yeah, yeah, very interesting.
Stacey (49:05):
This is a nice version.
Brian (49:06):
Why.
Stacey (49:08):
Oh, it's a different language, that's right.
Brian (49:11):
Espanol Wow, isn't it beautiful.
Stacey (49:17):
I like it.
It's a pretty language.
Yeah, it's all I hear all day.
I wish I could speak it.
Brian (49:20):
It's a pretty language.
Yeah, that's all I hear all day.
I wish I could speak it.
I wish I hadn't bombed out inhigh school and given up on the
language altogether, did we?
Stacey (49:32):
have any other orders of business?
Brian (49:33):
No, I do have one small one that, as we kind of I think
we kind of mentioned where we'reat, it'll be helpful as we kind
of continue.
This is, if you are listening,whatever you're listening on
Spotify, apple, google, amazonis to leave reviews on the
(49:54):
podcast.
I think it's super helpful Atleast kind of like mark it up
and maybe drop in a line or twoabout what you think about the
podcast or questions you'd wantus to ask.
Things like that it's probablya good place to do it and I
think it'll also kind of help usas we're trying to kind of work
on the management side of itwith vibes.
We're starting to do more andmore podcast management.
Stacey (50:13):
I'm just super curious to hear what people think and
what they'd like to hear.
You know, I think it would beinteresting.
Brian (50:21):
And are you ready to do a quick review?
Stacey (50:24):
Okay.
Brian (50:25):
I don't know what we're reviewing, but we will right now
.
What is it, babe?
It's Pharrell.
Piece by piece Lego movie.
Yeah, piece, Piece by pieceLego movie.
Stacey (50:42):
Yeah, surprisingly a Lego movie and it was fun.
Well what's your review?
Brian (50:54):
You put so much pressure on me to get a precise.
Oh, let's talk aboutgeneralities first.
I don't need a number.
A number comes at the end.
Stacey (50:58):
Well, it was sort of like his life story.
My favorite part is when hetalked about synesthesia, which
is a condition he has in whichhe sees color as sound.
He hears something and heperceives it as color, and that
(51:21):
depicted in the Lego movie wasamazing.
Brian (51:24):
It's incredible right.
Stacey (51:24):
Yeah, he, I didn't really know much about him.
What a very likable person heis and very talented, incredibly
creative, and so many otherpeople that he's worked with
were a part of this.
Brian (51:39):
Yeah, Lego bricks tell the life story of
singer-songwriter and recordproducer Pharrell Williams.
Pharrell or Pharrell.
Stacey (51:45):
I always thought it was Pharrell Pharrell.
Brian (51:47):
Williams from his childhood in Virginia to his
success in the music and fashionindustry.
It's that simple, I think thething that I enjoyed so much is
one I'm a huge fan of those Legomovies to start with is one I'm
a huge fan of those lego moviesto start with, but as they kind
of depicted the beginning ofthe movie, um, I think it was
organic, as told, that theeasiest way for him to tell his
(52:11):
entire story without boundariesis through the lego builder, and
it was incredible to me becauseI'm a fan of that platform.
I think it's incredible whatthey've done with the basic Lego
movies and some of the BatmanLegos and things like that.
So what was your final number?
What'd you give it?
Stacey (52:31):
I would probably give it an 8.3.
Brian (52:38):
Well, that's a big one.
I'm going to go a little bithigher because I think I'm going
to go higher on this one,because I enjoyed it sitting
there.
But I also think in a way it'spossibly groundbreaking doing a
documentary that way and MissyElliott and all of them to
(52:58):
basically have a classic,literally by the book, classic
documentary, sitting in chairsin studios, in living rooms and
have it seamlessly done with theflashbacks and the you know the
emotions there, all of it'sthere, his family dynamics there
.
So I'm going 9.1.
(53:18):
It's a big one for me because Ido think it's a little bit of a
groundbreaker.
All right, babe, give me anumber between one, and I'm not
going to do that much again.
One in 12.
Stacey (53:29):
Three.
Brian (53:30):
Oh, very low.
Let's see what we get here.
We are on to our.
Let's see, I got to get on toour little playlist here and
we're going to do this littleplaylist here and we're going to
do this, Brian and for others,let's play it.
And it's always cause MacMiller always starts it.
That's where we go, though.
Three, one, two, three, dang it.
(53:52):
It's a good song, though.
Do you know it?
Stacey (53:58):
Not yet.
Oh, it's yours.
Do you know it?
Not yet, oh.
Brian (54:08):
It's yours For sure.
Stacey (54:11):
But the question is is there anybody else?
Is this Post Malone?
Brian (54:17):
It's Post Malone.
Sign me up, post Malone, and itPost Malone, and it is 3,
bailey Stacey.
You must have it on yours, tayand Brian.
It's almost the whole family.
Alright babe, we're out of here.
Look at that 54 minutes.
It's our normal 55.
We're back in the game.
Stacey (54:35):
That was fun.
Love you.
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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.