April 1, 2024 • 35 mins
Hey Podcast Family!! Welcome to an insightful episode of the Brothers In Company Podcast presents Creators Conversation. In this episode, we feature Angel Brown, a licensed social worker specialized in trauma-focused therapy for individuals living with HIV-AIDS and others at risk. Angel speaks candidly about her experiences in the field of social work, imposter syndrome, and her efforts to provide resources to underserved community members.
Raised in Johns Island, South Carolina, Angel pursued her education diligently, paving her way from Catawba College to USC while raising her daughter. Her journey is one of perseverance and determination. We also broach the topic of mental health stigmas, particularly in the African American community, and the barriers it creates for those seeking help.
Angel discusses the importance of therapy, promoting better mental health awareness and debunking stereotypes related to mental health and HIV in the African American community. Her innovative ideas and compassion make her an inspiring voice in social work, mental health, and therapy.
In the further course of our discussion, we talk about the critical need for diversity in the medical field and its impact on patient experiences and outcomes. Our guest share personal stories, advice, and encouragement for those considering careers in the medical field.
One core segment of the conversation focuses on HIV/AIDS education and awareness, especially in black communities. It stresses on regular testing, safe sexual relationships and the importance of breaking stigma to foster understanding and acceptance.
This compelling episode concludes with a discussion on the significance of being aware of one's HIV status and maintaining open communication about sexual health with partners. It's an episode full of deep insights, personal experiences, and valuable advice aimed at sparking change in the medical field.
Check out Brothers In Company Podcast at https://brothersincompanypodcast.com/ and listen on Podbean, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all other major podcast platforms.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Music.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another edition of the Brothers
in Company podcast presents Creators Conversation.
Now, when we say creator, it's not only artists, entertainers,
(00:29):
content creators, or businesses.
It can be also about professionals who are in their respective fields,
providing resources and support in the community, especially when it comes to
the well-beings of others.
And we have a special guest today that does just that.
I had the honor to meet this intelligent, caring lady at the Black Expo.
(00:52):
She's a licensed master social worker and provide trauma-focused therapy to
those living with HIV-AIDS and at risk.
And she's also a mother of a five-year-old daughter.
So ladies and gentlemen, Angel Brown.
Angel Brown, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. You're welcome. You're welcome.
(01:13):
How are you doing today on this beautiful Saturday?
I'm doing I can't complain.
So I'm just resting up written ready for the next week and whatever comes, you know.
That's that's good. That's good. So I know I did gave a little bit of an introduction
to you, Angel, but tell us a little bit about yourself and where you're from.
(01:38):
Okay, so I am from Johns Island, South Carolina, and basically lived here my whole life.
Instead of when I went off to college, I got my undergrad at Catawba College in North Carolina.
And shortly after that, like a year later, I had my daughter.
And that didn't stop me from going back to get my master's. I was going to take that gap year.
(02:03):
I got pregnant. I was like, you know what? Can I do this? started questioning
myself but I sticked on the plan and I graduated from USC with my master's in
social work and shortly after that.
Got to give you got to give you your applause for that yes.
(02:23):
It was tough. I can I can only imagine. Yeah shortly after I got licensed.
Congratulations on getting that license and, and just going through that process
to being where you are now.
Now, since you are a license, a licensed master social worker.
(02:47):
So explain about what that means or what that is.
Basically social workers are the people who are that,
that that line between a lot
of political social issues that may
impact people who who are under privileged
underserved and we do the best that we can to like make sure that they get all
(03:11):
the resources that they need and that can come from a wide variety of different
occupations and i know when i say social workers some people are like child
care services yes things like that but you You know,
we do a lot more than that. You know, case management, of course.
And then we also work in schools. We work in hospitals.
(03:32):
We also can be forensic social workers. We can work in hospice,
pilot care, like all the things, mental health.
We can be health. We can be supervisors. We can own our own nonprofits. We can do all the things.
Very dynamic. Yes. Very dynamic.
Yeah. Very broad. Yeah. So it's very hard to get bored. Or like if you get bored
(03:54):
of one thing, there's always something else you can do with that social work
degree. There you go. There you go.
Now, going back to earning your certificate and being in your field,
what inspired you to get into social worker and trauma-related therapy?
Okay. So what got me into social work is that I always wanted to be a therapist.
(04:20):
But then I also had like this...
Uncertainty, like, ooh, what if I don't want to do therapy? Like,
what if I start doing therapy and I don't like it? Then I'm stuck with this degree.
And, you know, it already takes a lot of work to get a degree in the first place.
And my sister, who also has her social work degree, she's like 14 years older than I am.
(04:42):
And she's, you know, getting her social work degree. I'm like, what is that about?
And, you know, she introduced me to like, oh, you know, you can be a therapist,
You can do case management. You can do all different types of things with this degree.
Like if you get bored doing therapy, there's other things that you can do.
And that's when I was like, you know, that doesn't sound too bad.
(05:03):
I like some flexibility.
So I got my degree, my master's and my first job, like I got hired by both of
my internships in my master program. So that was awesome.
Didn't have to wait too much for a job. Already got one.
So I started back in HIV in my grad school.
(05:27):
And as an intern, wasn't sure what HIV was about.
I was like, I don't know. But I ended up falling in love with it.
It's awesome. the people who the pop
that population is just so unique and I
love everything about them and so I worked
with them for a while and doing case management
and it's changed a
(05:49):
change of pace was needed and I wanted to get into therapy and I got into where
I am now and I started doing in work with people who have experienced sexual
assault or any other types of any victim of crime.
(06:10):
So my specializing in sexual assault, and I did that for about a year.
And then now I've been able to reconnect with my passions of trauma focused therapy and HIV.
And now I do that together and I could not be any happier.
Yeah, it's this sounds good to have someone who wants to help people,
(06:32):
you know, dealing with HIV AIDS or people dealing with trauma related issues
just to have someone who is really passionate about doing that.
Because we all know about HIV AIDS and
trauma related issues going on and people need
that support so it's it's it's refreshing
to know that you yourself is
(06:55):
passionate about that you're you
know helping people try to get their lives back together yeah and breaking down
those stigma those stereotypes against mental health and HIV there you go very
black community there you go and And that's going to be and that actually leads
to the next the next thing I have for you now,
(07:16):
because on the on the podcast, it's just me and my brother.
My brother's not here. He's he's out and about.
So on the podcast, we talk about issues of mental health because that's really
important for everybody in society, especially for us.
And, you know, in the black community, we kind of shy away from mental health
issues of, oh, it's nothing wrong with you. You'll be all right.
(07:38):
You know, get over it. It's just life or whatnot.
And what do you what do you thought? Because I know for myself getting,
you know, for mental mental health or just talking to a therapist,
it actually does help when you can go to some about someone who is number one
professional and licensed.
And also you can get that, you know, get the right type of get the right type
(08:04):
of support or get the right type of.
You can get an objective viewpoint because when you're talking to friends and
family, they're already subjective to everything that's going on because they
know about it and they're going to have their own opinions and biases about it.
But you're actually talking to someone who has no clue and who is only there
to hear and talk about your problems from an outsider standpoint. point.
(08:27):
And yeah. And I want to talk about the stigmas because sometimes those stigmas
actually prevents us from getting that help, getting the therapy that,
that we need, especially if you're.
I would say, you know, issues of, let's say, HIV AIDS or someone dealing with
(08:49):
substance abuse or, you know, at risk.
And, you know, it's kind of it's already hard for them to deal with that, you know, themselves.
And, you know, going to, you know, getting the help that they need.
Talk about those stigmas that that we have, especially in the black community,
because I feel like the stigmas is what's keeping us away from what we have
(09:09):
to do, what we have to get. Oh, of course.
I mean, and it's, I wouldn't say, there's a whole lot of components that go
along with the stigma, especially with Black people in mental health.
It's like, I feel like a lot of there's that message from the church that does
not give the best connotation towards mental health.
(09:31):
They look at it as like a demon being like being
possessed by some sort of demon and like praying in a
way things like that and when those patients when I do have some of those patients
who are very strong and faith-based I like to say well like yes it's one thing
to have faith but faith without work is what you know so that work that you're
(09:51):
putting in is going to therapy coupled with that that faith.
And another stigma, I mean, it's not really a stigma, but it's hard to connect
and talk with someone who doesn't look like you.
And usually, therapists nowadays are white.
And when we come in and there are certain issues that they may not understand,
(10:15):
they may have a bias or just historical factors that come into just seeing a white provider.
We if we're getting that accurate.
Accurate treatment or being treated well. Microaggressions happen all the time.
And sometimes that just causes people to, oh, well, I went to therapy and it was terrible.
(10:36):
And I just give up because therapy is just not for me.
And if that one person doesn't work out, you can always find someone else.
And I'm not to say that, you know, all the white providers are that way.
I talk about racial inequality and
they're very on it about you know the more aware
(10:59):
of these problems and issues and it's just
I that would probably be a big one I would say is coming to talk to someone
who you feel like you can't relate to right right because like like you said
sometimes family members and friends can give the wrong advice you know they'll
give you the get over it It is life.
(11:20):
You don't need no therapy, but just that step of getting, going to therapy,
start just, just doing, just going through those steps.
The first step, the first step is to, you know, get therapy into a,
you know, into what you need.
Yeah. Yeah. And just going back to getting your certification and going through
(11:42):
medical school and everything that you had to do.
We talked a few days ago about how you how you are the only black therapist in your department.
You know, after after earning, you know, going through internships and,
you know, training and getting your certification.
What was that experience like for you when you're going in overcoming those
(12:03):
challenges that you faced?
In school, you had a few other people.
And, you know, on top of just being Black in an all-white setting,
there are sometimes you have those mixed co-workers that I feel like are able
(12:25):
to blend in more with that background.
And I feel like I stand out more.
When it comes to be more noticeable when it comes to being Black, so to speak.
So it's tough because I do deal a lot with imposter syndrome on,
like, I don't believe I belong in these spaces.
(12:46):
Like, what if I say something and I get fired because I, you know,
said the wrong thing or I I tried to advocate for something or, you know,
just some experiences that I've had in the past.
I've tried to, you know, I was fresh out of grad school and basically ethical
(13:10):
behavior was like at the top of our priority list when going out.
And then we were taught to express our concerns. Like if we feel like there
are things that are just not right and are not serving our patients or clients,
you should speak up about it. And in the past, I have done that.
And it has cost me to lose my job.
(13:32):
And in this current position now, I made sure I went in headstrong,
like, okay, I am a Black woman, and I want to know how I can maneuver this world
of mental health in this organization,
knowing as a Black woman, how do I do that?
(13:56):
Right. I want to feel like I belong here. I've done the work. I've done everything.
But still, I feel like it's just just something just isn't right. You know? Yeah.
And I can understand that because you've earned that that right.
You earned the certifications to be in that department to do your job and for
(14:18):
you to be the only black person, you know, to be in that department.
Like you said, you stand out.
So you have like a kind of like a disadvantage, you know, being being, you know, being there.
But like you said, you sometimes you have to stand up and say something and
say, hey, this isn't right, especially, you know, if we're going to serve people, you know.
(14:40):
And now you don't say, well, I'm going to serve this, you know,
serve, you know, like a certain group of people like I'm going to filter out who I want to serve.
It's you've earned that once you've earned that to me, once you earn that certification
and, you know, you go through that process, you're there because you've earned that spot.
(15:01):
You went through the process. You are good at what you do.
You're here to serve people who need the help. So I think sometimes that,
you know, we businesses or whatever,
get, they kind of get, get away from serving people, custom,
you know, we call that customer service or serving your, your,
(15:24):
your, the, your group, you know what I'm saying?
That sometimes we just people just get away from the
actual mission yes and the
mission is swept under the rug because
of so many so much of the politics that goes on you
know with racism discrimination you know you firing people because of whatever
(15:45):
you know and and not giving you know qualify people a chance you know whether
it's white black whatever it kind of just like this it's discouraging. It very much is.
And since being where I am now, I'm starting to feel, I'm starting to feel myself
more as an asset because the people in the population that we do serve look a lot like me.
(16:11):
So I've seen like the literal,
the breath of relief when some of the patients are like,
they hop onto the, to the video chat for their sessions and they're like,
and i'm like yeah yeah there you
go we were we're here we were
here you know yeah and that's this it's a great feeling because we we talked
(16:35):
about this before that you don't see many black therapists black doctors people
you know people who look like us in the in the medical field in the trauma field or people,
you know, us. Being medical. Yeah.
We need more people. We are dying. Yeah. Of people who don't like us and they're
trying to take away the DEI.
(16:56):
Yeah. And that's the, yeah, it's so, it's crazy that, and that's the other thing
that I was going to get into. Yeah.
It's crazy because they're trying
to take away DEI from colleges and from schools and everything, books,
critical race theory, and not understanding us as a people, as a community,
(17:21):
because we're still fighting for what you see on my shirt. I know, that's right.
We're still fighting for this every day, every day.
And there was a and i shared with you
a news report where lawmakers and
one of the lawmakers is uh from north carolina
and he was a part of the medical field or whatnot
(17:43):
and he was the i guess the figurehead of proposing
their they're all trying to propose this bill of trying
to get rid of dei because it's it's
they say they think it's too political critical this
is they're talking about oh well the students are learning about
critical race theory and it may impact the lives of
patients because that class time could be used to teach them something else
(18:09):
and i'm like no this teaches your you know your future surgeons to be a decent
human being and having good bedside manner and understanding of the people that they're You're good.
You know? I got to give you that. I got to give you that. That's the truth.
I mean, if you're a doctor, nurse, or a therapist, you're there to serve people.
(18:33):
You know, people who look like you, people who may not look like you,
people who need the help, that need the proper health care, the proper support.
Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.
I'm very, you know, I'm very proud for you to stand up for what you believe
(18:53):
in, to stand up as a as a black woman in that field, to go back based on your
merit, based on your certifications, your experience,
because I can understand how hard it is to be there.
And then having to stand on your principles when everything else is kind of
all over the place and unethical.
(19:17):
Yeah yeah it's hard it's hard especially when it's against your old people that
look like you and it and i'm like i i can't just sit by and not say anything not like this happened.
I got here i got to this point so i can be one of the voices that haven't been
(19:37):
heard and there are many voices that haven't been heard i can at least try to
shine a light on them and be like Like, hey, we also but also say we need more people.
Please come and get degrees and get in these medical field jobs. We need them.
Definitely. Definitely. We do. We do. You know, you know, you ever heard about people?
(20:01):
You may probably heard of this when you are, you know, growing up, be a doctor, be a lawyer.
You know what i'm saying because they're they're not too many of us out in these
in these particular careers and for you to be there and have people who look
like us to look at ourselves and say oh,
(20:22):
there's a as a black a black therapist oh okay okay now i now it's so like people get comfortable,
now to someone who understands what you, you know, what we went through as a
community, but also understand and have like, what you might call it.
Trying to find the word, have the sympathy or, you know, to help people.
(20:45):
Yeah. Have that sympathy.
We can speak the implicit language that a lot of people don't,
that a lot of people across races don't understand. Like I can do.
And you know what I mean by that.
So it's like just certain mannerisms. And like just the other day I had a patient
and she had left her hair scarf on and she started talking.
(21:08):
And then in the middle, she was like, oh, she's like, oh.
You never mind like you get it and i said girl i get it like what do you.
There's no need to do all of that i get why that's on top of your head we don't
have to have a conversation about it there's a whole lot of things that we that
they don't have to explain,
because you get it you know yeah have um you know just have the the like i say
(21:33):
something it's almost like having something in common where you can you know
can speak you know you you know,
the, the lingo or you know, the mannerisms, it's kind of like having somebody
you can relate to, you know, to have that.
And it goes to my other question that, that I have for you pretty much like the,
(21:57):
the, the last question, what advice you have for people who want to get get
into therapy or getting,
or, or, or they want to get into social work, you know, to work with like trauma,
trauma, you know, trauma related issues and work with, with,
you know, people dealing with HIV AIDS at risk,
(22:18):
you know, what do you, what advice, what advice you would give for people who
want to get into you and feel you're in?
I would say don't do it.
Don't come into this field for the money.
Don't do it. Because if you're not genuine and you don't like dealing with people
(22:40):
or dealing with them at their lowest, things like that, don't do it.
People can tell when people aren't being genuine when their providers are not genuine with them.
And that's regardless of any race. Don't do it if you don't care.
And also, just do it. Like, really, just do it.
(23:03):
And if you want to focus mainly on therapy, you can become a, oh, it's the LPC.
What does that mean? License.
Oh, gosh, I'm drawing a blank. You'd be LPC, license, oh, my gosh,
I'm drawing a blank. They're counselors.
(23:23):
Their whole degree is in counseling. counseling and or you
can get a psychology psychiatry degree they also
do mental health things like that social work
is just a little bit more i would say you have more options in doing things
so there are different options like social work is not the only thing that you
can do to get in to help any of these populations and just be dedicated and
(23:50):
do it for the right reasons,
because if not it's your it's not
going to be best and then you're going to get frustrated and the
people that you're going to work with are going to get frustrated and
then we are essentially creating or feeding into the issue like if we come into
a contact with a therapist who just you who seems like they're only there for
(24:13):
the check but they're not likely to come back to therapy at all after that interaction.
So if you're not into it, if you don't want to do it, if you don't want to get into it.
Have a passion for it then just don't do it but if
you do by all means i'm happy
to have you as my colleague connect you know we can do all the things and i
(24:39):
i don't mind helping a younger black generation with that process i like i think
i would love to do and be a mentor like do mentorships Yeah.
It's just I don't I have not come in contact with others like me who are willing
and wanting to so that are young. So I don't I don't know.
(25:04):
Now, that's something that, you know, that's that's a good idea to have,
you know, have some have a mentorship where you have representation. representation.
And just like with the Black Expo, where we met and where we first talked.
You know, having, you know, if you was at the Black Expo, let's say events or,
(25:25):
you know, organizations that you are out in front of people and they come to
you and say, hey, what do you do?
And then you can explain what you, you know, explain what you do.
And, you know, sometimes times that light bulb comes on
it's like oh oh you're you know is it
you know some people may even get
that uh to get that idea like oh you you work with like
(25:48):
you deal with you you know trauma you know therapy and and people at risk and
sometimes people may be going through that situation and it may need you know
that that help or may need that support so i think it'll be a a good idea to,
you know, have like a mentorship because you're already, you're in your field.
(26:10):
You, you know, you're a black woman in that field that you've earned to get into.
And it may inspire other black women or black men to get into,
you know, get into the medical field itself, get into trauma therapy, being a doctor.
It's just that having more representation of us, especially when we go out and
(26:31):
we go go through the process, the medical school, the internships,
the certifications to be in that field.
Because I believe that things work when you have the best people,
best people in, in there, there, in that space.
(26:53):
And if they're, yeah, especially if they're, if they're a black and and they
have earned that, they should be in that field and there should be more of us.
And not space and not being unapologetic about being there.
Bless you, bless you. Thank you. But I would love to see more black men in mental health.
(27:16):
I would love, love, love, love to see that.
That is another thing, too. Yeah. Love to see that.
I've met one black male social worker.
He's not even a social worker. He's an LPC, I believe.
And once I found out he was a therapist, I was just like, oh,
(27:37):
my God. Am I seeing something that's unreal?
Like, I am just so shocked. But, like, I'm like, we need more every time I see
a black person that looks like me. Let me clarify that.
That looks like me in these settings, I am over the moon.
And I'm not to say, you know, my Caramel brothers and sisters,
(27:59):
you know what I mean? I love y'all. You know.
The darker skins, like, you know, we got our things within our Black community. I hate that.
Yeah, I hate that type of talk.
It just divides us even more. You know what I'm saying? You got dark skin versus light skin.
(28:24):
I mean, when I signed, like if I look at an application, it doesn't say,
okay, if you're a light skinned black or dark skinned black,
it says black or African-American.
That's it. I don't understand that type of talk. I don't engage in it.
If you're Black, you're Black. I'm sorry.
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
(28:45):
So it's just, I just can't wait to see. I would just love to see more of us
in these fields, taking up these spaces.
Because our patients and our community needs it. Yeah, we sure do.
Do we we we we and
you know you and then for you to
be out there too so people can see that we
(29:06):
have you know black doctors black medical staff there knowing that we are also
in these fields so people can you know people can either get the help or it's
like you said people can get into that field Because you see,
if you see more of us in something that is,
(29:27):
you know, we're breaking the mold,
breaking that glass ceiling and you see more of us there, it's going to inspire
other people, you know, younger people to get into that field because they see
us work to get there and they see what's possible.
Yeah yeah i definitely would
love to see more more more black people in
(29:50):
in these in in the field especially black men
in you know what i'm saying but you know we
go through this the the mental health and the therapy and the at risk and all
of that so we need to see more of more black men ourselves too yeah in that
field yeah absolutely yeah yeah but i i really do appreciate this this conversation, Angel.
(30:14):
I really do appreciate this conversation because it's good to talk to someone who is professional.
In that field to give insight. Yes. Yeah. So I really, I'm thankful for you
to, for, for coming on to the show.
You're a part of what we call the podcast family.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
(30:39):
And and I also want to thank you for the work that you've done and the work that you're doing,
especially in your field, in your in your job when you because you're you're
helping people who may be ashamed or maybe afraid.
(30:59):
And you're giving that space for them to get the right type of assistance that they need. Absolutely.
I thank you for that. I'm very, very, very proud of what you're doing.
And please continue to fight the good fight, continue to stand strong and keep that passion.
(31:23):
Oh, yeah. Keep the passion. Like you said, if you have a passion for it, then you should do it.
Because sometimes it's not always about money. The money will come, you know, throughout.
But once you're passionate about something, you should go and do it.
It doesn't mean you feel like you're working. Yeah, there you go.
That day at Black Expo, I didn't feel like I was working at all.
(31:48):
Yeah, I was just like, I'm giving out information that a lot of people don't
know about, especially with HIV.
I feel like a lot more people in the Black community are more accepting of mental
health nowadays, but we're becoming better at it.
But HIV, we are still like, and I'm like, why is that exactly up in our community?
(32:13):
And this is the reason we don't talk about it. It's just going to keep doing what it's doing.
Nobody is properly educated about HIV.
And I just don't understand. it just yeah
it's yeah yeah yeah it's
because it's affecting us very it's
affecting us very very seriously and
(32:36):
yeah what because what things
that people can do to educate themselves or or or protect themselves when it
comes to hiv aids get tested get tested get tested every three months But get
tested every three months, guys, okay?
(32:57):
Especially if you're sexually active. I don't care if you're having sex with one person or 20 people.
Let it be consensual. Let it be safe. And go get tested every three months.
HIV and STDs every three months.
It is so important. and having a conversation with your partner about testing is also very important.
(33:24):
If you bring up testing and they act like it's a taboo and like,
oh, why are you asking me that?
And they give like a very immature response, you probably should not be having
sex with this individual, okay?
Also, just using condoms, using protection, stay protected.
(33:45):
Yes, stay protected and go get tested every three months. There are free clinics usually in the area.
You can always Google search it. There's a lot of grants. There's like DHECs
in your area. They do free testing.
Please go and get tested. Don't rely on anybody else's test records either.
(34:06):
Get your own test.
Yes, yes. Yes. Know your, know your status. Know your status.
Yeah. And be safe. Be safe out here. Yeah.
Have sex as much as you want, but just be safe. That is how I give my,
my sexual health lesson.
(34:26):
Yeah. As long as it's consensual and safe and we're wearing condoms,
do whatever. Right. Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I definitely agree. Yeah, I agree.
Yeah. So I thank you for coming on to the show. I really do. Thank you for your time.
(34:48):
Thank you for the work that you're doing. And just thank you for being out in
the community and just standing strong on what you believe in and your passion.
I'm just just really impressed of of of yourself and, you know, your intelligence.
I mean, thank you. Thank you so
much for being on the show. Thank you for having me. I do appreciate it.
(35:38):
We just created. So yes. So make sure you guys check that out.
So until next time, this is Derek peace.
One love y'all.
This is the brothers in company podcast.
Music.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another edition of the Brothers
in Company podcast presents Creators Conversation.
Now, when we say creator, it's not only artists, entertainers,
(00:29):
content creators, or businesses.
It can be also about professionals who are in their respective fields,
providing resources and support in the community, especially when it comes to
the well-beings of others.
And we have a special guest today that does just that.
I had the honor to meet this intelligent, caring lady at the Black Expo.
(00:52):
She's a licensed master social worker and provide trauma-focused therapy to
those living with HIV-AIDS and at risk.
And she's also a mother of a five-year-old daughter.
So ladies and gentlemen, Angel Brown.
Angel Brown, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. You're welcome. You're welcome.
(01:13):
How are you doing today on this beautiful Saturday?
I'm doing I can't complain.
So I'm just resting up written ready for the next week and whatever comes, you know.
That's that's good. That's good. So I know I did gave a little bit of an introduction
to you, Angel, but tell us a little bit about yourself and where you're from.
(01:38):
Okay, so I am from Johns Island, South Carolina, and basically lived here my whole life.
Instead of when I went off to college, I got my undergrad at Catawba College in North Carolina.
And shortly after that, like a year later, I had my daughter.
And that didn't stop me from going back to get my master's. I was going to take that gap year.
(02:03):
I got pregnant. I was like, you know what? Can I do this? started questioning
myself but I sticked on the plan and I graduated from USC with my master's in
social work and shortly after that.
Got to give you got to give you your applause for that yes.
(02:23):
It was tough. I can I can only imagine. Yeah shortly after I got licensed.
Congratulations on getting that license and, and just going through that process
to being where you are now.
Now, since you are a license, a licensed master social worker.
(02:47):
So explain about what that means or what that is.
Basically social workers are the people who are that,
that that line between a lot
of political social issues that may
impact people who who are under privileged
underserved and we do the best that we can to like make sure that they get all
(03:11):
the resources that they need and that can come from a wide variety of different
occupations and i know when i say social workers some people are like child
care services yes things like that but you You know,
we do a lot more than that. You know, case management, of course.
And then we also work in schools. We work in hospitals.
(03:32):
We also can be forensic social workers. We can work in hospice,
pilot care, like all the things, mental health.
We can be health. We can be supervisors. We can own our own nonprofits. We can do all the things.
Very dynamic. Yes. Very dynamic.
Yeah. Very broad. Yeah. So it's very hard to get bored. Or like if you get bored
(03:54):
of one thing, there's always something else you can do with that social work
degree. There you go. There you go.
Now, going back to earning your certificate and being in your field,
what inspired you to get into social worker and trauma-related therapy?
Okay. So what got me into social work is that I always wanted to be a therapist.
(04:20):
But then I also had like this...
Uncertainty, like, ooh, what if I don't want to do therapy? Like,
what if I start doing therapy and I don't like it? Then I'm stuck with this degree.
And, you know, it already takes a lot of work to get a degree in the first place.
And my sister, who also has her social work degree, she's like 14 years older than I am.
(04:42):
And she's, you know, getting her social work degree. I'm like, what is that about?
And, you know, she introduced me to like, oh, you know, you can be a therapist,
You can do case management. You can do all different types of things with this degree.
Like if you get bored doing therapy, there's other things that you can do.
And that's when I was like, you know, that doesn't sound too bad.
(05:03):
I like some flexibility.
So I got my degree, my master's and my first job, like I got hired by both of
my internships in my master program. So that was awesome.
Didn't have to wait too much for a job. Already got one.
So I started back in HIV in my grad school.
(05:27):
And as an intern, wasn't sure what HIV was about.
I was like, I don't know. But I ended up falling in love with it.
It's awesome. the people who the pop
that population is just so unique and I
love everything about them and so I worked
with them for a while and doing case management
and it's changed a
(05:49):
change of pace was needed and I wanted to get into therapy and I got into where
I am now and I started doing in work with people who have experienced sexual
assault or any other types of any victim of crime.
(06:10):
So my specializing in sexual assault, and I did that for about a year.
And then now I've been able to reconnect with my passions of trauma focused therapy and HIV.
And now I do that together and I could not be any happier.
Yeah, it's this sounds good to have someone who wants to help people,
(06:32):
you know, dealing with HIV AIDS or people dealing with trauma related issues
just to have someone who is really passionate about doing that.
Because we all know about HIV AIDS and
trauma related issues going on and people need
that support so it's it's it's refreshing
to know that you yourself is
(06:55):
passionate about that you're you
know helping people try to get their lives back together yeah and breaking down
those stigma those stereotypes against mental health and HIV there you go very
black community there you go and And that's going to be and that actually leads
to the next the next thing I have for you now,
(07:16):
because on the on the podcast, it's just me and my brother.
My brother's not here. He's he's out and about.
So on the podcast, we talk about issues of mental health because that's really
important for everybody in society, especially for us.
And, you know, in the black community, we kind of shy away from mental health
issues of, oh, it's nothing wrong with you. You'll be all right.
(07:38):
You know, get over it. It's just life or whatnot.
And what do you what do you thought? Because I know for myself getting,
you know, for mental mental health or just talking to a therapist,
it actually does help when you can go to some about someone who is number one
professional and licensed.
And also you can get that, you know, get the right type of get the right type
(08:04):
of support or get the right type of.
You can get an objective viewpoint because when you're talking to friends and
family, they're already subjective to everything that's going on because they
know about it and they're going to have their own opinions and biases about it.
But you're actually talking to someone who has no clue and who is only there
to hear and talk about your problems from an outsider standpoint. point.
(08:27):
And yeah. And I want to talk about the stigmas because sometimes those stigmas
actually prevents us from getting that help, getting the therapy that,
that we need, especially if you're.
I would say, you know, issues of, let's say, HIV AIDS or someone dealing with
(08:49):
substance abuse or, you know, at risk.
And, you know, it's kind of it's already hard for them to deal with that, you know, themselves.
And, you know, going to, you know, getting the help that they need.
Talk about those stigmas that that we have, especially in the black community,
because I feel like the stigmas is what's keeping us away from what we have
(09:09):
to do, what we have to get. Oh, of course.
I mean, and it's, I wouldn't say, there's a whole lot of components that go
along with the stigma, especially with Black people in mental health.
It's like, I feel like a lot of there's that message from the church that does
not give the best connotation towards mental health.
(09:31):
They look at it as like a demon being like being
possessed by some sort of demon and like praying in a
way things like that and when those patients when I do have some of those patients
who are very strong and faith-based I like to say well like yes it's one thing
to have faith but faith without work is what you know so that work that you're
(09:51):
putting in is going to therapy coupled with that that faith.
And another stigma, I mean, it's not really a stigma, but it's hard to connect
and talk with someone who doesn't look like you.
And usually, therapists nowadays are white.
And when we come in and there are certain issues that they may not understand,
(10:15):
they may have a bias or just historical factors that come into just seeing a white provider.
We if we're getting that accurate.
Accurate treatment or being treated well. Microaggressions happen all the time.
And sometimes that just causes people to, oh, well, I went to therapy and it was terrible.
(10:36):
And I just give up because therapy is just not for me.
And if that one person doesn't work out, you can always find someone else.
And I'm not to say that, you know, all the white providers are that way.
I talk about racial inequality and
they're very on it about you know the more aware
(10:59):
of these problems and issues and it's just
I that would probably be a big one I would say is coming to talk to someone
who you feel like you can't relate to right right because like like you said
sometimes family members and friends can give the wrong advice you know they'll
give you the get over it It is life.
(11:20):
You don't need no therapy, but just that step of getting, going to therapy,
start just, just doing, just going through those steps.
The first step, the first step is to, you know, get therapy into a,
you know, into what you need.
Yeah. Yeah. And just going back to getting your certification and going through
(11:42):
medical school and everything that you had to do.
We talked a few days ago about how you how you are the only black therapist in your department.
You know, after after earning, you know, going through internships and,
you know, training and getting your certification.
What was that experience like for you when you're going in overcoming those
(12:03):
challenges that you faced?
In school, you had a few other people.
And, you know, on top of just being Black in an all-white setting,
there are sometimes you have those mixed co-workers that I feel like are able
(12:25):
to blend in more with that background.
And I feel like I stand out more.
When it comes to be more noticeable when it comes to being Black, so to speak.
So it's tough because I do deal a lot with imposter syndrome on,
like, I don't believe I belong in these spaces.
(12:46):
Like, what if I say something and I get fired because I, you know,
said the wrong thing or I I tried to advocate for something or, you know,
just some experiences that I've had in the past.
I've tried to, you know, I was fresh out of grad school and basically ethical
(13:10):
behavior was like at the top of our priority list when going out.
And then we were taught to express our concerns. Like if we feel like there
are things that are just not right and are not serving our patients or clients,
you should speak up about it. And in the past, I have done that.
And it has cost me to lose my job.
(13:32):
And in this current position now, I made sure I went in headstrong,
like, okay, I am a Black woman, and I want to know how I can maneuver this world
of mental health in this organization,
knowing as a Black woman, how do I do that?
(13:56):
Right. I want to feel like I belong here. I've done the work. I've done everything.
But still, I feel like it's just just something just isn't right. You know? Yeah.
And I can understand that because you've earned that that right.
You earned the certifications to be in that department to do your job and for
(14:18):
you to be the only black person, you know, to be in that department.
Like you said, you stand out.
So you have like a kind of like a disadvantage, you know, being being, you know, being there.
But like you said, you sometimes you have to stand up and say something and
say, hey, this isn't right, especially, you know, if we're going to serve people, you know.
(14:40):
And now you don't say, well, I'm going to serve this, you know,
serve, you know, like a certain group of people like I'm going to filter out who I want to serve.
It's you've earned that once you've earned that to me, once you earn that certification
and, you know, you go through that process, you're there because you've earned that spot.
(15:01):
You went through the process. You are good at what you do.
You're here to serve people who need the help. So I think sometimes that,
you know, we businesses or whatever,
get, they kind of get, get away from serving people, custom,
you know, we call that customer service or serving your, your,
(15:24):
your, the, your group, you know what I'm saying?
That sometimes we just people just get away from the
actual mission yes and the
mission is swept under the rug because
of so many so much of the politics that goes on you
know with racism discrimination you know you firing people because of whatever
(15:45):
you know and and not giving you know qualify people a chance you know whether
it's white black whatever it kind of just like this it's discouraging. It very much is.
And since being where I am now, I'm starting to feel, I'm starting to feel myself
more as an asset because the people in the population that we do serve look a lot like me.
(16:11):
So I've seen like the literal,
the breath of relief when some of the patients are like,
they hop onto the, to the video chat for their sessions and they're like,
and i'm like yeah yeah there you
go we were we're here we were
here you know yeah and that's this it's a great feeling because we we talked
(16:35):
about this before that you don't see many black therapists black doctors people
you know people who look like us in the in the medical field in the trauma field or people,
you know, us. Being medical. Yeah.
We need more people. We are dying. Yeah. Of people who don't like us and they're
trying to take away the DEI.
(16:56):
Yeah. And that's the, yeah, it's so, it's crazy that, and that's the other thing
that I was going to get into. Yeah.
It's crazy because they're trying
to take away DEI from colleges and from schools and everything, books,
critical race theory, and not understanding us as a people, as a community,
(17:21):
because we're still fighting for what you see on my shirt. I know, that's right.
We're still fighting for this every day, every day.
And there was a and i shared with you
a news report where lawmakers and
one of the lawmakers is uh from north carolina
and he was a part of the medical field or whatnot
(17:43):
and he was the i guess the figurehead of proposing
their they're all trying to propose this bill of trying
to get rid of dei because it's it's
they say they think it's too political critical this
is they're talking about oh well the students are learning about
critical race theory and it may impact the lives of
patients because that class time could be used to teach them something else
(18:09):
and i'm like no this teaches your you know your future surgeons to be a decent
human being and having good bedside manner and understanding of the people that they're You're good.
You know? I got to give you that. I got to give you that. That's the truth.
I mean, if you're a doctor, nurse, or a therapist, you're there to serve people.
(18:33):
You know, people who look like you, people who may not look like you,
people who need the help, that need the proper health care, the proper support.
Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.
I'm very, you know, I'm very proud for you to stand up for what you believe
(18:53):
in, to stand up as a as a black woman in that field, to go back based on your
merit, based on your certifications, your experience,
because I can understand how hard it is to be there.
And then having to stand on your principles when everything else is kind of
all over the place and unethical.
(19:17):
Yeah yeah it's hard it's hard especially when it's against your old people that
look like you and it and i'm like i i can't just sit by and not say anything not like this happened.
I got here i got to this point so i can be one of the voices that haven't been
(19:37):
heard and there are many voices that haven't been heard i can at least try to
shine a light on them and be like Like, hey, we also but also say we need more people.
Please come and get degrees and get in these medical field jobs. We need them.
Definitely. Definitely. We do. We do. You know, you know, you ever heard about people?
(20:01):
You may probably heard of this when you are, you know, growing up, be a doctor, be a lawyer.
You know what i'm saying because they're they're not too many of us out in these
in these particular careers and for you to be there and have people who look
like us to look at ourselves and say oh,
(20:22):
there's a as a black a black therapist oh okay okay now i now it's so like people get comfortable,
now to someone who understands what you, you know, what we went through as a
community, but also understand and have like, what you might call it.
Trying to find the word, have the sympathy or, you know, to help people.
(20:45):
Yeah. Have that sympathy.
We can speak the implicit language that a lot of people don't,
that a lot of people across races don't understand. Like I can do.
And you know what I mean by that.
So it's like just certain mannerisms. And like just the other day I had a patient
and she had left her hair scarf on and she started talking.
(21:08):
And then in the middle, she was like, oh, she's like, oh.
You never mind like you get it and i said girl i get it like what do you.
There's no need to do all of that i get why that's on top of your head we don't
have to have a conversation about it there's a whole lot of things that we that
they don't have to explain,
because you get it you know yeah have um you know just have the the like i say
(21:33):
something it's almost like having something in common where you can you know
can speak you know you you know,
the, the lingo or you know, the mannerisms, it's kind of like having somebody
you can relate to, you know, to have that.
And it goes to my other question that, that I have for you pretty much like the,
(21:57):
the, the last question, what advice you have for people who want to get get
into therapy or getting,
or, or, or they want to get into social work, you know, to work with like trauma,
trauma, you know, trauma related issues and work with, with,
you know, people dealing with HIV AIDS at risk,
(22:18):
you know, what do you, what advice, what advice you would give for people who
want to get into you and feel you're in?
I would say don't do it.
Don't come into this field for the money.
Don't do it. Because if you're not genuine and you don't like dealing with people
(22:40):
or dealing with them at their lowest, things like that, don't do it.
People can tell when people aren't being genuine when their providers are not genuine with them.
And that's regardless of any race. Don't do it if you don't care.
And also, just do it. Like, really, just do it.
(23:03):
And if you want to focus mainly on therapy, you can become a, oh, it's the LPC.
What does that mean? License.
Oh, gosh, I'm drawing a blank. You'd be LPC, license, oh, my gosh,
I'm drawing a blank. They're counselors.
(23:23):
Their whole degree is in counseling. counseling and or you
can get a psychology psychiatry degree they also
do mental health things like that social work
is just a little bit more i would say you have more options in doing things
so there are different options like social work is not the only thing that you
can do to get in to help any of these populations and just be dedicated and
(23:50):
do it for the right reasons,
because if not it's your it's not
going to be best and then you're going to get frustrated and the
people that you're going to work with are going to get frustrated and
then we are essentially creating or feeding into the issue like if we come into
a contact with a therapist who just you who seems like they're only there for
(24:13):
the check but they're not likely to come back to therapy at all after that interaction.
So if you're not into it, if you don't want to do it, if you don't want to get into it.
Have a passion for it then just don't do it but if
you do by all means i'm happy
to have you as my colleague connect you know we can do all the things and i
(24:39):
i don't mind helping a younger black generation with that process i like i think
i would love to do and be a mentor like do mentorships Yeah.
It's just I don't I have not come in contact with others like me who are willing
and wanting to so that are young. So I don't I don't know.
(25:04):
Now, that's something that, you know, that's that's a good idea to have,
you know, have some have a mentorship where you have representation. representation.
And just like with the Black Expo, where we met and where we first talked.
You know, having, you know, if you was at the Black Expo, let's say events or,
(25:25):
you know, organizations that you are out in front of people and they come to
you and say, hey, what do you do?
And then you can explain what you, you know, explain what you do.
And, you know, sometimes times that light bulb comes on
it's like oh oh you're you know is it
you know some people may even get
that uh to get that idea like oh you you work with like
(25:48):
you deal with you you know trauma you know therapy and and people at risk and
sometimes people may be going through that situation and it may need you know
that that help or may need that support so i think it'll be a a good idea to,
you know, have like a mentorship because you're already, you're in your field.
(26:10):
You, you know, you're a black woman in that field that you've earned to get into.
And it may inspire other black women or black men to get into,
you know, get into the medical field itself, get into trauma therapy, being a doctor.
It's just that having more representation of us, especially when we go out and
(26:31):
we go go through the process, the medical school, the internships,
the certifications to be in that field.
Because I believe that things work when you have the best people,
best people in, in there, there, in that space.
(26:53):
And if they're, yeah, especially if they're, if they're a black and and they
have earned that, they should be in that field and there should be more of us.
And not space and not being unapologetic about being there.
Bless you, bless you. Thank you. But I would love to see more black men in mental health.
(27:16):
I would love, love, love, love to see that.
That is another thing, too. Yeah. Love to see that.
I've met one black male social worker.
He's not even a social worker. He's an LPC, I believe.
And once I found out he was a therapist, I was just like, oh,
(27:37):
my God. Am I seeing something that's unreal?
Like, I am just so shocked. But, like, I'm like, we need more every time I see
a black person that looks like me. Let me clarify that.
That looks like me in these settings, I am over the moon.
And I'm not to say, you know, my Caramel brothers and sisters,
(27:59):
you know what I mean? I love y'all. You know.
The darker skins, like, you know, we got our things within our Black community. I hate that.
Yeah, I hate that type of talk.
It just divides us even more. You know what I'm saying? You got dark skin versus light skin.
(28:24):
I mean, when I signed, like if I look at an application, it doesn't say,
okay, if you're a light skinned black or dark skinned black,
it says black or African-American.
That's it. I don't understand that type of talk. I don't engage in it.
If you're Black, you're Black. I'm sorry.
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
(28:45):
So it's just, I just can't wait to see. I would just love to see more of us
in these fields, taking up these spaces.
Because our patients and our community needs it. Yeah, we sure do.
Do we we we we and
you know you and then for you to
be out there too so people can see that we
(29:06):
have you know black doctors black medical staff there knowing that we are also
in these fields so people can you know people can either get the help or it's
like you said people can get into that field Because you see,
if you see more of us in something that is,
(29:27):
you know, we're breaking the mold,
breaking that glass ceiling and you see more of us there, it's going to inspire
other people, you know, younger people to get into that field because they see
us work to get there and they see what's possible.
Yeah yeah i definitely would
love to see more more more black people in
(29:50):
in these in in the field especially black men
in you know what i'm saying but you know we
go through this the the mental health and the therapy and the at risk and all
of that so we need to see more of more black men ourselves too yeah in that
field yeah absolutely yeah yeah but i i really do appreciate this this conversation, Angel.
(30:14):
I really do appreciate this conversation because it's good to talk to someone who is professional.
In that field to give insight. Yes. Yeah. So I really, I'm thankful for you
to, for, for coming on to the show.
You're a part of what we call the podcast family.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
(30:39):
And and I also want to thank you for the work that you've done and the work that you're doing,
especially in your field, in your in your job when you because you're you're
helping people who may be ashamed or maybe afraid.
(30:59):
And you're giving that space for them to get the right type of assistance that they need. Absolutely.
I thank you for that. I'm very, very, very proud of what you're doing.
And please continue to fight the good fight, continue to stand strong and keep that passion.
(31:23):
Oh, yeah. Keep the passion. Like you said, if you have a passion for it, then you should do it.
Because sometimes it's not always about money. The money will come, you know, throughout.
But once you're passionate about something, you should go and do it.
It doesn't mean you feel like you're working. Yeah, there you go.
That day at Black Expo, I didn't feel like I was working at all.
(31:48):
Yeah, I was just like, I'm giving out information that a lot of people don't
know about, especially with HIV.
I feel like a lot more people in the Black community are more accepting of mental
health nowadays, but we're becoming better at it.
But HIV, we are still like, and I'm like, why is that exactly up in our community?
(32:13):
And this is the reason we don't talk about it. It's just going to keep doing what it's doing.
Nobody is properly educated about HIV.
And I just don't understand. it just yeah
it's yeah yeah yeah it's
because it's affecting us very it's
affecting us very very seriously and
(32:36):
yeah what because what things
that people can do to educate themselves or or or protect themselves when it
comes to hiv aids get tested get tested get tested every three months But get
tested every three months, guys, okay?
(32:57):
Especially if you're sexually active. I don't care if you're having sex with one person or 20 people.
Let it be consensual. Let it be safe. And go get tested every three months.
HIV and STDs every three months.
It is so important. and having a conversation with your partner about testing is also very important.
(33:24):
If you bring up testing and they act like it's a taboo and like,
oh, why are you asking me that?
And they give like a very immature response, you probably should not be having
sex with this individual, okay?
Also, just using condoms, using protection, stay protected.
(33:45):
Yes, stay protected and go get tested every three months. There are free clinics usually in the area.
You can always Google search it. There's a lot of grants. There's like DHECs
in your area. They do free testing.
Please go and get tested. Don't rely on anybody else's test records either.
(34:06):
Get your own test.
Yes, yes. Yes. Know your, know your status. Know your status.
Yeah. And be safe. Be safe out here. Yeah.
Have sex as much as you want, but just be safe. That is how I give my,
my sexual health lesson.
(34:26):
Yeah. As long as it's consensual and safe and we're wearing condoms,
do whatever. Right. Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I definitely agree. Yeah, I agree.
Yeah. So I thank you for coming on to the show. I really do. Thank you for your time.
(34:48):
Thank you for the work that you're doing. And just thank you for being out in
the community and just standing strong on what you believe in and your passion.
I'm just just really impressed of of of yourself and, you know, your intelligence.
I mean, thank you. Thank you so
much for being on the show. Thank you for having me. I do appreciate it.
(35:38):
We just created. So yes. So make sure you guys check that out.
So until next time, this is Derek peace.
One love y'all.
This is the brothers in company podcast.
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