In this episode, Meredith Rosenberg, Co-Founder and Partner at NU Advisory Partners, spends a lot of time working with senior academic and industry leaders – whether that is relative to recruitment, strategic consultation and advisory services, or launching education technology startups. She has a really unique lens when it comes to empowering leaders and assessing talent, and helping organizations and institutions thrive and pivot in times of change. Her own approach to leadership is to manage the predictable and leave space to rise to the unpredictable, and most importantly to live your authentic self and be clear about what matters. In her own words: “The leaders that I love in the university setting are the ones who think about what is possible, who are aspirational, who think about what is the future, and how do we build that. Those leaders are really the most exciting. They are entrepreneurial. They are innovative. They are creative. They think about what should be done.”
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Episode Transcript
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Wendy Colby (00:09):
This is Wendy Colby , vice President and Associate
Provost at Boston University andthe host of BU Virtual Connects
.
I am so excited to welcomeMeredith Rosenberg, co-founder
and partner at New AdvisoryPartners, an executive search
and advisory firm, where sheleverages over 25 years of
experience in education and edtech.
In this role, she guides publicand private companies,
(00:32):
investors, universities andnonprofits in navigating the
evolving education landscape.
I met Meredith years ago andwas immediately impressed by her
ability to size up talent,think strategically and help
leaders navigate toward successand anticipate the unexpected.
Over the years, she has alsocreated opportunities for
(00:54):
education salons of a sort,bringing people together from
different backgrounds and withdifferent perspectives to foster
dialogue and exchange.
I had the pleasure of recentlyattending one of those events in
Boston and I have to say it wasthe highlight of my dark, cold
Boston winter.
For those in higher educationwho may be listening, this is a
conversation you won't want tomiss.
(01:16):
During these times of changeand isn't everything always
changing?
Meredith encourages all of usto rise to the occasion, read
the moment and move withprecision where it counts.
So why don't we get started?
Really great to see you,meredith.
Thanks so much for coming intoour studio today.
Thanks so much for having me,wendy.
So, as I was sharing there justmoments ago, you have quite an
(01:39):
incredible career working acrossed tech, consulting higher ed
and now advising many of theleading institutions and
organizations that service ourindustry in dramatically
changing times.
I wonder if you can talk alittle bit about your journey
and what you have learned alongthe way that has guided your
work forward.
Meredith Rosenberg (01:57):
Yeah, thank you, and thanks again for having
me.
It's just really delighted tobe here and I love that you're
doing this podcast with so manydifferent voices, so thank you
for doing that Pleasure.
So I have had a very circuitousjourney to where I am today.
I think if you had told me whenI graduated university in 1992
that I would be leading anexecutive search firm, I would
(02:18):
say I don't even know what thatis, but I appreciate you saying
before about these salons.
I really think of myself as aconnector of people, and so one
of the things that I havelearned across this journey so
far is that to really understandwhat people can contribute to a
(02:38):
particular situation, pay lessattention to titles and to roles
, but more about what are peoplereally exceptional at doing,
what problems are they great atsolving, and how do you match
people together to help changesituations.
And so I think that I've becomealmost a collector of people
along the way.
(02:58):
I've worked both in the US andoutside of the US in many
different industries, and sositting where I am today, it
just gives me a really good viewof who would I want to
introduce to someone else toreally just move a conversation
forward.
Wendy Colby (03:13):
That's really wonderful.
You know we're going to talk alot today about leadership and I
love that notion you justshared of collecting people.
So we'll come back to that.
And you know, as I reflect onmy own career, I think about the
many elements that are reallycritical to living leadership,
and you just touched on many ofthese.
You know it doesn't matter somuch about title, but how are
(03:35):
you sort of bringing your visionand strategic thinking?
You know, thinking aboutproactive management, market
customer focus, risk-taking,collaboration, communication.
We could go on and on right.
And so, as you look at this, inthese times where we do need
sort of that focus onadaptability, resiliency, change
(03:56):
management, growth, mindset,right especially inside of
education today, what'simportant to you and how would
you define your own approach toleadership?
I think?
Meredith Rosenberg (04:07):
every day is filled with the predictable
elements and unpredictableelements every single day, and
if you can manage for thepredictable and leave space to
rise to the unpredictable, thenI would consider that a win.
It's so important to understandwho you are, what you're really
good at, live your authenticself, be really clear about what
(04:29):
matters and then, as a leader,just let your people run with
what they're good at, soenabling people, empowering
people.
It's not about control andcharisma.
Being a great leader, I thinkit's really letting your team go
do what they're really good atand enabling them to move
forward.
I, as you know, have a visiondisability, and so I don't think
(04:51):
I thought much about thisgrowing up, but now, when I
reflect back, I think that hasmade me much more comfortable
with uncertainty.
It's made me a much betterlistener.
It's made me much more agile,because I really had to navigate
the world in systems thatreally weren't designed for me,
(05:11):
which, again, as a kid I neverthought about it that way, but
now, as an adult, I think aboutit, and so that makes me better
as a founder in a startup.
I think it makes me better as aleader to really think about
including people veryauthentically and just letting
people run and go do whatthey're good at.
Wendy Colby (05:28):
And to be yourself, and I like what you're saying
there.
You know how do you navigateinto places you may not have
been before right, and Iappreciate kind of growing up
with that, like the things youcan see and you can't see, and
then how to move through thatliterally speaking, right,
literally speaking.
You know it's so interesting asI think about higher education.
(05:49):
I think this is the momentwhere we need leadership more
than ever in higher education.
You know we're witnessing greatchange.
You know rapid acceleration oftechnology, and it's really
requiring us to thinkdifferently.
And you know, again, I'minterested in your perspective
because you've straddledbusiness and university right,
(06:11):
and so have I, and so it'sreally interesting to look at.
Perhaps sometimes you know whatyou can also learn from the
other.
And as you think about thistime, we're in right again.
So many pressures on highereducation.
You've touched on so manythemes in terms of leadership,
but what do you try to adviseyour collectors those you
collect right or what do you tryto learn from them?
(06:34):
How do we help others in thistime who might not be so used to
how to navigate change?
What do you recommend for thosewho are maybe new to this
journey?
Meredith Rosenberg (06:43):
So it's very important to understand how
much change an organization canabsorb, because not every
organization can be so creativeat the same level that others
can.
So for leaders, you really haveto adapt to again what can an
organization absorb?
What is the right level ofchange for that organization and
what is the right level ofchange for that organization,
(07:05):
and what is the definition ofinnovation within that
environment?
As you had said, highereducation is fundamentally
changing and the pace of changeand new initiatives or
initiatives that are going awayevery day is evolving, as we
know.
Having a leader that can reallyagain think about the
predictable and theunpredictable and lead with both
(07:29):
of those things in mind is soimportant.
And so with universities, andparticularly those that I have
to think about the best way tosay this particularly those that
might be more conservative,might have a longer history more
conservative, might have alonger history traditional that
(07:50):
historically have been afraid ofembracing too much change.
You really have to let go ofthat.
Wendy Colby (07:53):
Yeah, you know, I will say hey, we're having a lot
of these conversations insideof our own community today,
right, thinking differentlyabout the way in which and I
love the way you're sort offocusing on what's your strategy
, what's your raison d'etre?
Right, as an organization or asa university, you know it's
forcing us to think differentlyabout.
And what do our students want,right?
What should our courses andprograms look like?
(08:15):
Right?
How are they performing for ustoday?
Are they attracting thestudents we want?
Do we need to rethink that,right?
So, all sorts of discussion onthis now, right, that is really
what is going to makeuniversities, you know, not only
viable but thrive into thefuture.
And so I think we are at thatmoment where, again, I kind of
go back to fundamentals around.
(08:35):
It's that strategic leadership,it is understanding markets and
customer segments.
It is, you know, and how yousort of get that expertise or
help those who, again, mighthave had very traditional models
historically evolve from thatsystem, and then you think
beyond the physical confines ofthe campus and your reach, and
(09:08):
that can extend globally.
Meredith Rosenberg (09:09):
And where do you have people located?
But yes, it is thinking aboutdo we have the right courses?
Are we teaching our students tothrive once they leave the
university, which is really whatthe goal is to be thinkers and
global thinkers and to solve thefuture problems of the world.
But also universities have thatresponsibility for the care and
keeping of their people, and sowhat does that mean?
(09:31):
That thinks about what is mylived experience on campus, in
the classroom.
When I leave the classroom,there is a little bit of chaos,
as we know, surrounding that,but that's a whole other
important layer that speaks toagain, living systems, mental
health career.
(09:51):
What you need to surround theexperience with right, exactly,
yeah, it's just beyond theclassroom, I think, and we
learned some of those rulesduring the pandemic, when
students suddenly were notgathering physically together.
And how do you continue theproduct delivery, teaching and
learning, and what is the coreproduct of a university?
But also, again, layering inthis, how are we embracing our
(10:13):
people?
Super important.
Wendy Colby (10:15):
Super important.
You know one of theconversations we have on this
podcast series.
I was speaking to one of ourother guests yesterday and he
likes to talk about learning inthe flow of work and learning in
the flow of life.
And you know, you think about,I love that too.
You know education and whatthat means, and even beyond the
classroom, like as we extend tothe boundaries, right.
(10:37):
As you know, one of my key areasof focus here at BU is around
how we extend our reach and ourmission through online and other
programs that will open upeducation to others who may not
physically be able to come toBoston, right, and so we're
starting to think abouteducation not starting, it's
been going on a long time, butthinking about education.
And so when you think about thepeople we serve, right, whether
(10:59):
they're right in front of us ina classroom or they're around
the world, it's interesting tothink about how you navigate
that, how you manage that, whatleadership skills are required
to do that and not everybodylearns in the same way, and that
is also important to thinkabout.
Meredith Rosenberg (11:14):
So when you think about bringing even BU
beyond the physical borders ofthe campus and globally, as you
had just said, you're alsothinking about those students
and learners who can'tphysically be here for other
reasons and don't learn in thetraditional.
Having someone talk to me andat me, it's the.
Do I learn by seeing thingsdifferently?
(11:34):
Do I learn by doing?
And so I think universitiesreally have to think differently
about that model how they'redelivering the core product in a
time of significant economicconstraint, where priorities
might be different as well too,and many universities we know
are saddled by fiscal plant anddeferred maintenance, which
(11:56):
causes them to make choicesabout where they're investing in
other spaces and other programs, them to make choices about
where they're investing in otherspaces and other programs, and
I think many universitiestraditionally were afraid of
online learning andnon-traditional delivery of
learning.
That certainly changed a littlebit in the pandemic, but I
don't think we're ever going togo back to where we were before.
Wendy Colby (12:17):
I think you're so right If you look at most
universities today and certainlythe pandemic was a catalyst, as
you said right, but so manyuniversities today already have
pretty vast portfolios of onlineofferings, right, providing
choice.
And, again, usually it's alsoand generally it's also
extending that reach, as I saidearlier, right in that these are
(12:39):
segments of learners outside ofthose who would come into our
campuses.
So it's a great way foruniversities again, especially
in these times, to think aboutdiversification and to think
about growth and think aboutimpact to a broader segment of
learners globally.
Meredith Rosenberg (12:54):
And there's also much more focus, I think,
on cross-collaboration.
So many universities that havecolleges sub-colleges, I would
say under university umbrella,historically were run separately
.
Faculty was separate, courseswere separate, students were
separate, and that is just notthe way we think about things.
And so being able to thinkabout healthcare or health
(13:15):
innovation but take a class inbusiness to help me think about
how am I going to launchsomething as a student once I
graduate, it's so important, andI've seen more universities
really think much more aboutcross-collaboration.
Wendy Colby (13:28):
I'm so glad you're talking about this.
This is a theme we're talkingabout at BU today cross
collaboration.
We call it convergence here orinterdisciplinary here.
I was just sharing an articlethe other day about the
humanities which are very muchgetting redefined, and this is,
of course, a very importanttopic here for BU.
But you start to think abouthumanities in general, as majors
(13:48):
have been in decline and so howdo we make those more
meaningful?
Well, back to your point.
If you connect some of the artsand so on in the humanities
with business, with health care,and so now students actually
are looking at differentpathways to their careers,
that's, I think, what getsreally exciting and we have to
be intentional about that.
Like, what is that experientiallearning experience?
(14:09):
What is the career outcome,what is the internship
opportunity?
And so we create that.
We help our students thenbecome these individuals that
can have societal impact on theworld.
Meredith Rosenberg (14:22):
Particularly when you think about education,
because education isn't justwhat it used to be.
There's law, there's policy,there's business.
There's so many different waysto think about the education
sector as you know as someonewho worked in private sector and
now is in the university and sobeing able to teach the future
(14:42):
leaders to approach a situationfrom many different angles is so
important, and so thesetraditional silos that many
universities had, I think theyjust have to crumble.
That, of course, has economicimplications and budget
implications and hiringimplications, et cetera, but
it's just it has to beapproached that way, et cetera,
but it's just, it has to beapproached that way, yeah.
Wendy Colby (15:01):
I think it's a moment of opportunity and
reimagination and reinvention,right in many respects.
And you know, as I reflect andI'm interested in your
perspective on this, meredithtoo, you know, kind of bringing
you know my portfolio ofexperiences, if I were to call
(15:26):
it that while I've been workingin higher ed most of my career
life, I have to say I've alsoappreciated having the business
side right and I think at thismoment higher ed really needs to
blend business acumen with theacademic as well.
You need both.
But looking at how to reimagineour programs and what we do for
students today and taking aclose look at, are these
sustainable and scalable modelsand, you know, will they
withstand right?
The unpredictable, as youtalked about earlier.
(15:46):
And you know, often when you'resort of you know in business
there I always say, or anentrepreneur, there are more
unknowns than knowns, right, andso, as a good leader, you've
got to prepare for that right.
And so this may get to thequestion I wanted to ask you as
well because you've done a lotto assess talent over the years.
You talked about this, advisingon strategic direction, and I'm
(16:09):
just wondering just beinginside a business as well, where
you've spent a lot of time yourun a business today, what
experiences like?
I'm always trying to figure outthat intersection between
business and academia and howthe two can help each other.
Right, and you know, certainlyacademia and higher ed is a
place where we're growing andnurturing the future leaders
(16:30):
right.
At the same time, business hassort of moved at a different
pace, right, and you work withmany presidents of companies and
CEOs of companies today, and soare there things you see in
business that you think could beapplied in these moments in
higher education to help us withthat reimagination, reinvention
.
Meredith Rosenberg (16:49):
Well, certainly, because all
universities have revenues andthey have expenses, and so we
say that nonprofits arecertainly mission-driven, but
it's really just a tax statusthat changes a nonprofit from a
private company as well.
So you still have to run themlike a business.
But very mission-oriented mightmean the pace of change or
level of innovation is different, but there are many
(17:11):
similarities.
I know that is not often apopular perspective.
We do work with in addition tomy company, in addition to
working with companies acrossthe education sector and the
private sector, whether it's PEor public companies, growth
stage venture.
We do work with universities,president searches, academic
searches, but also searches.
(17:32):
I would say bringing inleadership is a better way to
say it than searches, Bringingin leadership and talent related
to innovation and growth, andso we will often bring in people
from the private sector to putthem into chief transformation
officer, chief innovationofficer, partnership officers
that are helping work withboards and presidents to think
(17:52):
about what are ways that we caneither partner university with
other organizations, what wouldbe additive, whether it's
software or tech or other kindsof relationships that a
traditional university maybe didnot think of.
So bringing in someone that isvery mission-driven, really
understands the goal of theuniversity, loves working in
(18:14):
that environment but has aperspective well beyond those
walls, whether physical orotherwise, is super important
and we've seen that verysuccessfully happen and even
with president searches thatwe've completed.
Having someone that has abroader perspective beyond the
university because of otherrelationships, partnerships,
(18:35):
integration into the businesscommunity, other things, we find
that those presidents are very,very successful because they
can think of things beyond theacademic lens.
Wendy Colby (18:46):
You know, you've hit on something that I think is
really important here, meredith, and that's around this whole
notion.
I've seen more universitiesdoing this right Chief
innovation officer, chieftransformation officer, even
roles like mine, driving kind ofnew innovations in online et
cetera across the university.
But you're right, right, itcan't just be kind of coming in
as business only.
(19:06):
Right, it's.
There's there's an importanceto culture and collaboration and
relationship building andunderstanding the nuance of
values, understanding thenuances of a university.
To succeed in those, in thoseroles, have you generally found,
as you've brought folks in likea chief innovation officer,
chief technology officer or achief transformation officer at
(19:27):
a university, have they beenpretty well accepted inside of
universities today in your view?
Meredith Rosenberg (19:33):
They have.
I think a lot of it has to dowith how they're positioned in
the university and who they'reworking with and that individual
Do they build relationshipsacross the community versus
staying at the top level.
The partnership is so importantand coming in to listen and to
learn and to be agile and adapt.
The executives that do thatbest are the ones that are most
(19:54):
successful.
Wendy Colby (19:55):
Yeah, it gets back to all the themes we were
talking about.
Right, you know thatcollaboration, the communication
, the listening, theadaptability, reading your
culture and then knowing how tosteer the change and being
thoughtful about how that willbe accepted inside the culture.
And often I found myself when Icame inside of the university
(20:16):
environment here that I had tocalibrate a little bit.
You know many of my colleagueswill tell you they know I have a
real bias for action and I liketo move fast.
My own teams will probablyshare that too.
And while I want to keep asense of urgency and I want to
keep a sense of accountability,I'm also very sensitive to what
it takes to bring teams along.
And again, I think that'sanother example or an attribute
(20:38):
of leadership.
Meredith Rosenberg (20:40):
So it's what I call the tenacious, yet
patient gene.
So if you come from privatesector into the university,
understanding what I said beforeabout the pace of change, but
being tenacious and know how tocontinue to get things done in a
collaborative, bringing peoplealong with you kind of way, and
having the patience to seethings through, because the pace
(21:00):
is often slower andparticularly if you are the
first one, it is harder becauseyou have to socialize these
ideas and bring people alongwith you versus just saying, hey
, this is the way we're going todo it, because I said so, which
does not work, as we know, in auniversity, and particularly
environments with sharedgovernance.
Wendy Colby (21:17):
Yeah, I say a lot here.
We can't have a.
Meredith Rosenberg (21:19):
Thou shalt Exactly, you've got to bring
everyone along, but the leadersthat I love in the university
setting are ones that think ofwhat is possible and that are
very aspirational to think aboutwhat is the future.
And let's think about what'spossible and then how do we
build that.
And that might take severalyears to get there, but those
leaders are really the mostexciting.
They're entrepreneurial,they're innovative, they're
(21:40):
creative.
They think innovative.
They're creative.
They think beyond what hasalways been done to what should
be done.
And how do we think about that?
That art of the possible right,yeah no, I love that.
Wendy Colby (21:49):
That's exciting.
It's super excitingcollaboration of how we bring
the best of sort of industry andacademic together to really
reinvent and reinvigorate.
As you said earlier, you knowwhere our space is going, so I
want to switch a little bit to.
You know the ed tech side ofyour world.
(22:12):
You know where I also spent afair amount of time, and it's an
exciting space.
Every year I'm seeing more andmore ed techs popping up in the
space, and you know that's a lotof where innovation is fueled
today, right, and so I wonder ifyou can talk about any of the
trends you're seeing in highereducation today, for instance?
You know we talked a little bitabout online learning, creation
(22:34):
of pathways.
You know the skills andmicro-credentials all seem to be
hot topics today.
Ai, of course, is on everyone'smind.
What do you see?
Meredith Rosenberg (22:45):
I mean, how much time do we have?
Wendy Colby (22:47):
That's such a broad question.
Well, pick one.
Meredith Rosenberg (22:50):
Pick one or two.
I think in this time whereuniversities are budget
constrained, they want tocontinue the level of delivery
of product.
They have to think morecreatively about what are
solutions that help us runthings a little more effectively
, and that could be in anythingfrom software technology,
(23:10):
delivery, career services,mental health, and so I think
universities are, and should be,relying at external companies.
To get your question about whated tech trends are we seeing
there are ways to run systemsbetter and more efficiently so
you can focus more on yourpeople.
Frankly, that's what we didwhen we founded our company to
(23:32):
think about how can we use AIand tech to really be much more
efficient and effective, to freeup our time, to spend it on
what really matters, which ispeople, and it gets back to what
I was saying before about thecare and keeping of people and
content and delivery.
That is super important tothink about.
(23:53):
So when I think about ed techand I think about what are those
industries that are growingagain, what is going to help a
university run itself better,deliver things more efficiently,
so you can rely on again?
What is going to help auniversity run itself better,
deliver things more efficiently,so you can rely on again what
really matters.
Wendy Colby (24:06):
I think that's wonderful.
We here too at BU are in theprocess of standing up a new AI
development accelerator and thatis focused on Sorry, I had to
take a drink of water there,sorry about that that is focused
on really surfacing all thegood work that is going on
across the university relativeto AI, and we ourselves are
(24:29):
taking a look at theadministrative side and the
academic side and how that mightfeed and grow, you know,
increased value inside theclassroom, because there's some
amazing things we're doing nowin teaching and learning and at
the same time but I appreciatethat human element right.
What can we be doing better toinform and work with our
students but perhaps save time?
On efficiencies?
(24:50):
That's right.
You know reviewing applicationsor submitting contracts right,
there are some things that wecan do with AI that should
increase those efficiencies.
So I'm really excited to seewhere that goes and I think
we're all studying that today.
Meredith Rosenberg (25:03):
So we just a personal example.
So when we built our companyand now we've just last year was
our first full year ofoperations, ending in December
24.
Congratulations, thank you.
We asked our team to thinkabout how they're using these
different tools and we measuredthat, and again this is about a
(25:26):
year ago, so it's probably timewe did this again that people on
average were saving between 10and 12 hours a week based on
these tools that we wereimplementing into the daily
workflow, which means that youhave 10 to 12 extra hours per
person to spend on being morecreative, talking more with your
clients, with your candidates,and so AI and tech shouldn't
(25:46):
replace people, but it shouldmaybe change the way we're
thinking about things anddelivering things.
So it frees me up to do the morepeople centric things that I
have to do, and so I think in auniversity, are there ways to
incorporate tech in differentways.
Yes, it could be a little scaryfor someone who's been in a
(26:06):
university for so long, becauseyour job might fundamentally
shift and you have to reallyreimagine what your job could be
and how you add value, but thatis really the way universities
are moving.
I think and you can see to youroriginal question about what
aspects of ed tech or softwaretech are really growing or
software tech are really growingI think it's more about what's
(26:29):
going to be additive to helpuniversities be more efficient
so they can focus again on whatreally matters with the people
Sure, efficient and innovative,maybe as well, exactly, and
innovative, yeah, and anotherarea maybe to circle back on,
because I know it's near anddear to your heart when you were
talking about the sense ofbelonging and mental health.
Wendy Colby (26:46):
We see this a lot inside the university today.
In fact, even in our onlineprograms.
We've incorporated tools insidethe online programs to allow
students to have places ofoutreach right, especially if
they're feeling isolated andwant to have a greater sense of
belonging.
And I wonder what you're seeingin this space too.
Are there any areas that you'resort of taking a close look at
(27:08):
here, just given your work inthis space?
Meredith Rosenberg (27:10):
So we have seen more companies focused on
mental health that are adaptedby universities and brought in
at the very beginning.
So, whether that's in studentaffairs, student services, it's
more now a way of doing thingsversus a nice to have Right now,
a way of doing things versus anice to have.
So offering those kinds ofsolutions really, on whether
(27:32):
it's an orientation or makingstudents aware of the ability,
to reach out and what'savailable.
It's so important because,you're right, tech can be very
isolating, and so being able tobalance increased use of
technology with bringingcommunities more together and
other online solutions that areadditive to the in-person
(27:55):
contact is important, right, butthat is a real huge area of
growth, certainly in the market.
Wendy Colby (28:00):
Yeah, you think about, like telehealth and where
that's gone today, right aswell.
A question I have around wherewe're headed in education.
We've talked a little bit aboutthis today.
The education sector isevolving so much technological
change, students' expectationschanging.
If you could wave a magic wand,what do we look like five years
(28:22):
or 10 years from now?
Meredith Rosenberg (28:24):
Well, if I could predict where we would be
five years from now, maybe Iwould have a different job.
I don't know, maybe I would playthe lottery.
I would hope that we are in amuch more collaborative,
open-sourced environment, whichis unusual sometimes for
universities that focus onownership of IP of themselves,
(28:46):
and certainly with faculty.
But I would love to see muchmore collaboration across
universities.
That could be regional, itcould be by topic, by expertise,
but, particularly as we moveinto a world where there are
going to be and we are alreadyseeing this budget and economic
constraints, being able to shareresources more effectively, I
(29:11):
think will help break down moreof the fiscal silos and also the
silos that have been created.
So I would love to see that infive years from now.
Now how we get from here tothere.
We would have to be verythoughtful about that, because
that is really a very differentapproach to education.
We have seen certainmarketplaces that have brought
(29:33):
in content in air quotes fromdifferent universities to put
them together.
I'm not sure that is the onlyway to approach things, but
thinking about what are othermodels outside of education
where we've had shared resourcesto move the ball forward.
I would love to look more atthat and embrace that and have
that be the level of innovationand change.
Wendy Colby (29:58):
Because I think ultimately it's better for
students as well, too, and themore we bring more of that
collaboration, that community.
One of the things I have lovedabout higher ed is it's
conversations like this right.
It's so collegial.
I think we're all trying tofigure out how to lift our
industry up, and when we do thattogether is there more power to
learn from each other or createthese kinds of partnerships, as
you're talking, for things likeco-creation.
(30:20):
I was with a colleague the otherday and we were talking about,
you know, some of the globalopportunities we're seeing, and
this comes off of a recent tripI took to India, as you know,
and one of the statistics sharedwas that in India they need to
train over 5 million students inMBAs in the coming years, and
(30:40):
there just is not theinfrastructure to do that today.
So you think about the power ofpartnership and where we could
be driving impact and how mightuniversities come together to do
that.
So I think that's a reallyimportant theme to come back to,
and hopefully our podcast herewill stimulate some of that
discussion, meredith.
Meredith Rosenberg (30:58):
Well, particularly if you think about
that, 2007 was the largestsingle birth year in the United
States.
And I know this because I have ahigh school junior who is
thinking about university andthe world after high school.
So you have this huge group ofstudents that will be leaving
high school.
Not everybody goes touniversity.
Not everybody goes to afour-year college.
(31:20):
People go into the workforce aswell too.
But how can we better supportthese students Because, as you
had said, there are not as manyspots in some of the elite
universities?
Can we start thinking aboutdifferent ways to educate our
students?
What are other opportunities?
Are there global partnerships?
Are there different ways thatwe can creatively support by
(31:40):
sharing resources and thinkingabout that?
And if you think about who sitson the boards of trustees, they
are passionate about their almamater or the institution
they're on the board of, butthey usually come from the
private sector or other placesoutside the university.
Can they bring in differentresources or partnerships or
connections and networks to helpgrow this shared I don't want
(32:05):
to say pool of resources, butthe shared approach to learning?
Wendy Colby (32:10):
Yeah, it's really interesting to think about.
You're kind of getting to thattopic too of alternative
pathways, right, for somestudents they may not want that
traditional four-year degree.
You're seeing models now, right, the three-year degree, or
spend two of the first, spendyour first two years in another
location and then transfer in toX school, bu, and so I think
(32:33):
thinking about these models thatstart to open up opportunities
for students is going to bereally important and it sort of
follows the student intereststoo, I think, which we're seeing
growth mindset, global mindset,mobility, flexibility,
experiences in different placesright it comes to the question
of do we still need a four-yearresidential experience for our
(32:55):
students, like traditionaluniversities have been offering,
as you had said?
Meredith Rosenberg (32:59):
maybe it's three years and a year of work,
or three years here and a yearsomeone else.
We're three years here and ayear someone else, but thinking
differently about what educationis and how we better equip our
students to succeed once theyleave the confines of a
university or college and gointo the workforce or whatever
way they are doing.
We must think differently aboutthat and that's where ed tech
(33:24):
or career pathways or othersolutions or shared resources or
partnerships.
That's really where that comesinto play.
And again, in five years, in myideal world, I would love to
see that much more accepted.
There are some universitiesthat are doing that now, but
having that be much moreaccepted, I think, would be
really exciting.
Wendy Colby (33:44):
Right, I think it is Absolutely, and you know so
many other industries, right,have gone through this kind of
transformation.
Right, education has been justkind of slow in that evolution.
But I think now back to beingan optimist.
Now is that opportunity andthat time.
Okay, I'm going to try to bringus a bit to a close here and I
(34:05):
wanted to just get yourperspective.
We've been talking a lot abouthow you work with constraints,
how to expect the unexpected,what it takes in good leadership
, the listening, and I wasrecently with another university
leader on this podcast seriesand we were talking a lot about
scarcity, right, that scarcity,while it can be scary to many
(34:26):
who are losing or budgetreductions or whatever the case
might be, it can also reallyencourage innovation and
resourcefulness.
And so I wonder if you couldexpand a little bit of your view
on that and any examples youmight share in your own personal
experience where scarcityactually was a catalyst.
Meredith Rosenberg (34:45):
I really agree with that.
There are many different thingsthat stimulate innovation and
change, as we know, but scarcitycertainly is one of those.
And so really thinking about Ithink with education, about how
do we train our students to beleaders of the future If they're
not able to get what they needfrom a traditional university
because either spots are scarcein entering classes or they
(35:09):
don't have access that isscarcity that really stimulates
others to think about againalternative pathways, other
credentials, other ways ofteaching, immersive learning,
different kinds of experiences.
So I think that is actually areally great example of what
we're already seeing withscarcity.
It's a different way to thinkabout that, but I do certainly
(35:31):
believe in that.
Wendy Colby (35:33):
Brave new world right.
It's going to open up bold newopportunities for higher
education.
Meredith Rosenberg (35:38):
I hope so, but it does also then come down
to capital and where the capitalcome from.
Is it coming from privateindustry?
Is it coming from university?
That's moving resources, maybefrom one area to another, to
build up these different areas,and that is always the
constraint.
But how can you be creative tocontinually move the ball
forward?
(35:58):
Super important to think aboutit that way.
Wendy Colby (36:01):
Well, you just kind of a great way maybe to close
here.
Right is you've brought thepragmatist back.
You've put the business acumenback in.
Let's make sure we're doingthings smart and in the right
ways that are going to drive thekind of growth and evolution
and promote creativity.
But for a reason.
Meredith Rosenberg (36:18):
I think, to come back to your first question
about leadership, it's beingaspirational and thinking about
what is possible within yourcurrent constraints.
And that is not new orrevolutionary, but it really
guides things about.
Here's the situation.
What can we do better, how dowe get there and how are we
going to drive the ball forward,and what are the resources you
need to do that?
Wendy Colby (36:39):
And maybe, in closing, what is exciting to you
in your current business today.
What are you working on?
Meredith Rosenberg (36:45):
So many different things that I'm
working on, so I focus on theeducation sector.
As you know, I've been in thisindustry as a search consultant,
as an advisor, now for maybe 15years or so.
My colleagues focus on allother industries, and so what I
find really interesting is howwe can bring in people from
outside of education into theeducation sector by thinking
(37:07):
about what does this industryreally need and who has the
right skills and competenciesfrom outside to bring them in
and get them excited about this.
Wendy Colby (37:17):
Well, we're going to need to talk further, for
sure, as we advance our mission.
Meredith Rosenberg (37:20):
I would love to Love it Well.
Wendy Colby (37:21):
Thank you so much, Meredith.
It has been a pleasure.
Thank you so much, Wendy, beena pleasure.
Thank you so much, Wendy.
Thank you for joining us forthis BU Virtual Connects podcast
.
Special thanks to my colleaguesat BU Virtual and to our media
team who produces this podcastunder the leadership of our
(37:42):
studio director, George Vago.
To keep up with our BU VirtualConnects series, be sure to
subscribe wherever you listen toyour favorite podcasts.
You can also learn more aboutour portfolio of online programs
at BU Virtual by visiting bu.
edu/ virtual.
This is Wendy Colby , vice President and Associate
Provost at Boston University andthe host of BU Virtual Connects
.
I am so excited to welcomeMeredith Rosenberg, co-founder
and partner at New AdvisoryPartners, an executive search
and advisory firm, where sheleverages over 25 years of
experience in education and edtech.
In this role, she guides publicand private companies,
(00:32):
investors, universities andnonprofits in navigating the
evolving education landscape.
I met Meredith years ago andwas immediately impressed by her
ability to size up talent,think strategically and help
leaders navigate toward successand anticipate the unexpected.
Over the years, she has alsocreated opportunities for
(00:54):
education salons of a sort,bringing people together from
different backgrounds and withdifferent perspectives to foster
dialogue and exchange.
I had the pleasure of recentlyattending one of those events in
Boston and I have to say it wasthe highlight of my dark, cold
Boston winter.
For those in higher educationwho may be listening, this is a
conversation you won't want tomiss.
(01:16):
During these times of changeand isn't everything always
changing?
Meredith encourages all of usto rise to the occasion, read
the moment and move withprecision where it counts.
So why don't we get started?
Really great to see you,meredith.
Thanks so much for coming intoour studio today.
Thanks so much for having me,wendy.
So, as I was sharing there justmoments ago, you have quite an
(01:39):
incredible career working acrossed tech, consulting higher ed
and now advising many of theleading institutions and
organizations that service ourindustry in dramatically
changing times.
I wonder if you can talk alittle bit about your journey
and what you have learned alongthe way that has guided your
work forward.
Meredith Rosenberg (01:57):
Yeah, thank you, and thanks again for having
me.
It's just really delighted tobe here and I love that you're
doing this podcast with so manydifferent voices, so thank you
for doing that Pleasure.
So I have had a very circuitousjourney to where I am today.
I think if you had told me whenI graduated university in 1992
that I would be leading anexecutive search firm, I would
(02:18):
say I don't even know what thatis, but I appreciate you saying
before about these salons.
I really think of myself as aconnector of people, and so one
of the things that I havelearned across this journey so
far is that to really understandwhat people can contribute to a
(02:38):
particular situation, pay lessattention to titles and to roles
, but more about what are peoplereally exceptional at doing,
what problems are they great atsolving, and how do you match
people together to help changesituations.
And so I think that I've becomealmost a collector of people
along the way.
(02:58):
I've worked both in the US andoutside of the US in many
different industries, and sositting where I am today, it
just gives me a really good viewof who would I want to
introduce to someone else toreally just move a conversation
forward.
Wendy Colby (03:13):
That's really wonderful.
You know we're going to talk alot today about leadership and I
love that notion you justshared of collecting people.
So we'll come back to that.
And you know, as I reflect onmy own career, I think about the
many elements that are reallycritical to living leadership,
and you just touched on many ofthese.
You know it doesn't matter somuch about title, but how are
(03:35):
you sort of bringing your visionand strategic thinking?
You know, thinking aboutproactive management, market
customer focus, risk-taking,collaboration, communication.
We could go on and on right.
And so, as you look at this, inthese times where we do need
sort of that focus onadaptability, resiliency, change
(03:56):
management, growth, mindset,right especially inside of
education today, what'simportant to you and how would
you define your own approach toleadership?
I think?
Meredith Rosenberg (04:07):
every day is filled with the predictable
elements and unpredictableelements every single day, and
if you can manage for thepredictable and leave space to
rise to the unpredictable, thenI would consider that a win.
It's so important to understandwho you are, what you're really
good at, live your authenticself, be really clear about what
(04:29):
matters and then, as a leader,just let your people run with
what they're good at, soenabling people, empowering
people.
It's not about control andcharisma.
Being a great leader, I thinkit's really letting your team go
do what they're really good atand enabling them to move
forward.
I, as you know, have a visiondisability, and so I don't think
(04:51):
I thought much about thisgrowing up, but now, when I
reflect back, I think that hasmade me much more comfortable
with uncertainty.
It's made me a much betterlistener.
It's made me much more agile,because I really had to navigate
the world in systems thatreally weren't designed for me,
(05:11):
which, again, as a kid I neverthought about it that way, but
now, as an adult, I think aboutit, and so that makes me better
as a founder in a startup.
I think it makes me better as aleader to really think about
including people veryauthentically and just letting
people run and go do whatthey're good at.
Wendy Colby (05:28):
And to be yourself, and I like what you're saying
there.
You know how do you navigateinto places you may not have
been before right, and Iappreciate kind of growing up
with that, like the things youcan see and you can't see, and
then how to move through thatliterally speaking, right,
literally speaking.
You know it's so interesting asI think about higher education.
(05:49):
I think this is the momentwhere we need leadership more
than ever in higher education.
You know we're witnessing greatchange.
You know rapid acceleration oftechnology, and it's really
requiring us to thinkdifferently.
And you know, again, I'minterested in your perspective
because you've straddledbusiness and university right,
(06:11):
and so have I, and so it'sreally interesting to look at.
Perhaps sometimes you know whatyou can also learn from the
other.
And as you think about thistime, we're in right again.
So many pressures on highereducation.
You've touched on so manythemes in terms of leadership,
but what do you try to adviseyour collectors those you
collect right or what do you tryto learn from them?
(06:34):
How do we help others in thistime who might not be so used to
how to navigate change?
What do you recommend for thosewho are maybe new to this
journey?
Meredith Rosenberg (06:43):
So it's very important to understand how
much change an organization canabsorb, because not every
organization can be so creativeat the same level that others
can.
So for leaders, you really haveto adapt to again what can an
organization absorb?
What is the right level ofchange for that organization and
what is the right level ofchange for that organization,
(07:05):
and what is the definition ofinnovation within that
environment?
As you had said, highereducation is fundamentally
changing and the pace of changeand new initiatives or
initiatives that are going awayevery day is evolving, as we
know.
Having a leader that can reallyagain think about the
predictable and theunpredictable and lead with both
(07:29):
of those things in mind is soimportant.
And so with universities, andparticularly those that I have
to think about the best way tosay this particularly those that
might be more conservative,might have a longer history more
conservative, might have alonger history traditional that
(07:50):
historically have been afraid ofembracing too much change.
You really have to let go ofthat.
Wendy Colby (07:53):
Yeah, you know, I will say hey, we're having a lot
of these conversations insideof our own community today,
right, thinking differentlyabout the way in which and I
love the way you're sort offocusing on what's your strategy
, what's your raison d'etre?
Right, as an organization or asa university, you know it's
forcing us to think differentlyabout.
And what do our students want,right?
What should our courses andprograms look like?
(08:15):
Right?
How are they performing for ustoday?
Are they attracting thestudents we want?
Do we need to rethink that,right?
So, all sorts of discussion onthis now, right, that is really
what is going to makeuniversities, you know, not only
viable but thrive into thefuture.
And so I think we are at thatmoment where, again, I kind of
go back to fundamentals around.
(08:35):
It's that strategic leadership,it is understanding markets and
customer segments.
It is, you know, and how yousort of get that expertise or
help those who, again, mighthave had very traditional models
historically evolve from thatsystem, and then you think
beyond the physical confines ofthe campus and your reach, and
(09:08):
that can extend globally.
Meredith Rosenberg (09:09):
And where do you have people located?
But yes, it is thinking aboutdo we have the right courses?
Are we teaching our students tothrive once they leave the
university, which is really whatthe goal is to be thinkers and
global thinkers and to solve thefuture problems of the world.
But also universities have thatresponsibility for the care and
keeping of their people, and sowhat does that mean?
(09:31):
That thinks about what is mylived experience on campus, in
the classroom.
When I leave the classroom,there is a little bit of chaos,
as we know, surrounding that,but that's a whole other
important layer that speaks toagain, living systems, mental
health career.
(09:51):
What you need to surround theexperience with right, exactly,
yeah, it's just beyond theclassroom, I think, and we
learned some of those rulesduring the pandemic, when
students suddenly were notgathering physically together.
And how do you continue theproduct delivery, teaching and
learning, and what is the coreproduct of a university?
But also, again, layering inthis, how are we embracing our
(10:13):
people?
Super important.
Wendy Colby (10:15):
Super important.
You know one of theconversations we have on this
podcast series.
I was speaking to one of ourother guests yesterday and he
likes to talk about learning inthe flow of work and learning in
the flow of life.
And you know, you think about,I love that too.
You know education and whatthat means, and even beyond the
classroom, like as we extend tothe boundaries, right.
(10:37):
As you know, one of my key areasof focus here at BU is around
how we extend our reach and ourmission through online and other
programs that will open upeducation to others who may not
physically be able to come toBoston, right, and so we're
starting to think abouteducation not starting, it's
been going on a long time, butthinking about education.
And so when you think about thepeople we serve, right, whether
(10:59):
they're right in front of us ina classroom or they're around
the world, it's interesting tothink about how you navigate
that, how you manage that, whatleadership skills are required
to do that and not everybodylearns in the same way, and that
is also important to thinkabout.
Meredith Rosenberg (11:14):
So when you think about bringing even BU
beyond the physical borders ofthe campus and globally, as you
had just said, you're alsothinking about those students
and learners who can'tphysically be here for other
reasons and don't learn in thetraditional.
Having someone talk to me andat me, it's the.
Do I learn by seeing thingsdifferently?
(11:34):
Do I learn by doing?
And so I think universitiesreally have to think differently
about that model how they'redelivering the core product in a
time of significant economicconstraint, where priorities
might be different as well too,and many universities we know
are saddled by fiscal plant anddeferred maintenance, which
(11:56):
causes them to make choicesabout where they're investing in
other spaces and other programs, them to make choices about
where they're investing in otherspaces and other programs, and
I think many universitiestraditionally were afraid of
online learning andnon-traditional delivery of
learning.
That certainly changed a littlebit in the pandemic, but I
don't think we're ever going togo back to where we were before.
Wendy Colby (12:17):
I think you're so right If you look at most
universities today and certainlythe pandemic was a catalyst, as
you said right, but so manyuniversities today already have
pretty vast portfolios of onlineofferings, right, providing
choice.
And, again, usually it's alsoand generally it's also
extending that reach, as I saidearlier, right in that these are
(12:39):
segments of learners outside ofthose who would come into our
campuses.
So it's a great way foruniversities again, especially
in these times, to think aboutdiversification and to think
about growth and think aboutimpact to a broader segment of
learners globally.
Meredith Rosenberg (12:54):
And there's also much more focus, I think,
on cross-collaboration.
So many universities that havecolleges sub-colleges, I would
say under university umbrella,historically were run separately
.
Faculty was separate, courseswere separate, students were
separate, and that is just notthe way we think about things.
And so being able to thinkabout healthcare or health
(13:15):
innovation but take a class inbusiness to help me think about
how am I going to launchsomething as a student once I
graduate, it's so important, andI've seen more universities
really think much more aboutcross-collaboration.
Wendy Colby (13:28):
I'm so glad you're talking about this.
This is a theme we're talkingabout at BU today cross
collaboration.
We call it convergence here orinterdisciplinary here.
I was just sharing an articlethe other day about the
humanities which are very muchgetting redefined, and this is,
of course, a very importanttopic here for BU.
But you start to think abouthumanities in general, as majors
(13:48):
have been in decline and so howdo we make those more
meaningful?
Well, back to your point.
If you connect some of the artsand so on in the humanities
with business, with health care,and so now students actually
are looking at differentpathways to their careers,
that's, I think, what getsreally exciting and we have to
be intentional about that.
Like, what is that experientiallearning experience?
(14:09):
What is the career outcome,what is the internship
opportunity?
And so we create that.
We help our students thenbecome these individuals that
can have societal impact on theworld.
Meredith Rosenberg (14:22):
Particularly when you think about education,
because education isn't justwhat it used to be.
There's law, there's policy,there's business.
There's so many different waysto think about the education
sector as you know as someonewho worked in private sector and
now is in the university and sobeing able to teach the future
(14:42):
leaders to approach a situationfrom many different angles is so
important, and so thesetraditional silos that many
universities had, I think theyjust have to crumble.
That, of course, has economicimplications and budget
implications and hiringimplications, et cetera, but
it's just it has to beapproached that way, et cetera,
but it's just, it has to beapproached that way, yeah.
Wendy Colby (15:01):
I think it's a moment of opportunity and
reimagination and reinvention,right in many respects.
And you know, as I reflect andI'm interested in your
perspective on this, meredithtoo, you know, kind of bringing
you know my portfolio ofexperiences, if I were to call
(15:26):
it that while I've been workingin higher ed most of my career
life, I have to say I've alsoappreciated having the business
side right and I think at thismoment higher ed really needs to
blend business acumen with theacademic as well.
You need both.
But looking at how to reimagineour programs and what we do for
students today and taking aclose look at, are these
sustainable and scalable modelsand, you know, will they
withstand right?
The unpredictable, as youtalked about earlier.
(15:46):
And you know, often when you'resort of you know in business
there I always say, or anentrepreneur, there are more
unknowns than knowns, right, andso, as a good leader, you've
got to prepare for that right.
And so this may get to thequestion I wanted to ask you as
well because you've done a lotto assess talent over the years.
You talked about this, advisingon strategic direction, and I'm
(16:09):
just wondering just beinginside a business as well, where
you've spent a lot of time yourun a business today, what
experiences like?
I'm always trying to figure outthat intersection between
business and academia and howthe two can help each other.
Right, and you know, certainlyacademia and higher ed is a
place where we're growing andnurturing the future leaders
(16:30):
right.
At the same time, business hassort of moved at a different
pace, right, and you work withmany presidents of companies and
CEOs of companies today, and soare there things you see in
business that you think could beapplied in these moments in
higher education to help us withthat reimagination, reinvention
.
Meredith Rosenberg (16:49):
Well, certainly, because all
universities have revenues andthey have expenses, and so we
say that nonprofits arecertainly mission-driven, but
it's really just a tax statusthat changes a nonprofit from a
private company as well.
So you still have to run themlike a business.
But very mission-oriented mightmean the pace of change or
level of innovation is different, but there are many
(17:11):
similarities.
I know that is not often apopular perspective.
We do work with in addition tomy company, in addition to
working with companies acrossthe education sector and the
private sector, whether it's PEor public companies, growth
stage venture.
We do work with universities,president searches, academic
searches, but also searches.
(17:32):
I would say bringing inleadership is a better way to
say it than searches, Bringingin leadership and talent related
to innovation and growth, andso we will often bring in people
from the private sector to putthem into chief transformation
officer, chief innovationofficer, partnership officers
that are helping work withboards and presidents to think
(17:52):
about what are ways that we caneither partner university with
other organizations, what wouldbe additive, whether it's
software or tech or other kindsof relationships that a
traditional university maybe didnot think of.
So bringing in someone that isvery mission-driven, really
understands the goal of theuniversity, loves working in
(18:14):
that environment but has aperspective well beyond those
walls, whether physical orotherwise, is super important
and we've seen that verysuccessfully happen and even
with president searches thatwe've completed.
Having someone that has abroader perspective beyond the
university because of otherrelationships, partnerships,
(18:35):
integration into the businesscommunity, other things, we find
that those presidents are very,very successful because they
can think of things beyond theacademic lens.
Wendy Colby (18:46):
You know, you've hit on something that I think is
really important here, meredith, and that's around this whole
notion.
I've seen more universitiesdoing this right Chief
innovation officer, chieftransformation officer, even
roles like mine, driving kind ofnew innovations in online et
cetera across the university.
But you're right, right, itcan't just be kind of coming in
as business only.
(19:06):
Right, it's.
There's there's an importanceto culture and collaboration and
relationship building andunderstanding the nuance of
values, understanding thenuances of a university.
To succeed in those, in thoseroles, have you generally found,
as you've brought folks in likea chief innovation officer,
chief technology officer or achief transformation officer at
(19:27):
a university, have they beenpretty well accepted inside of
universities today in your view?
Meredith Rosenberg (19:33):
They have.
I think a lot of it has to dowith how they're positioned in
the university and who they'reworking with and that individual
Do they build relationshipsacross the community versus
staying at the top level.
The partnership is so importantand coming in to listen and to
learn and to be agile and adapt.
The executives that do thatbest are the ones that are most
(19:54):
successful.
Wendy Colby (19:55):
Yeah, it gets back to all the themes we were
talking about.
Right, you know thatcollaboration, the communication
, the listening, theadaptability, reading your
culture and then knowing how tosteer the change and being
thoughtful about how that willbe accepted inside the culture.
And often I found myself when Icame inside of the university
(20:16):
environment here that I had tocalibrate a little bit.
You know many of my colleagueswill tell you they know I have a
real bias for action and I liketo move fast.
My own teams will probablyshare that too.
And while I want to keep asense of urgency and I want to
keep a sense of accountability,I'm also very sensitive to what
it takes to bring teams along.
And again, I think that'sanother example or an attribute
(20:38):
of leadership.
Meredith Rosenberg (20:40):
So it's what I call the tenacious, yet
patient gene.
So if you come from privatesector into the university,
understanding what I said beforeabout the pace of change, but
being tenacious and know how tocontinue to get things done in a
collaborative, bringing peoplealong with you kind of way, and
having the patience to seethings through, because the pace
(21:00):
is often slower andparticularly if you are the
first one, it is harder becauseyou have to socialize these
ideas and bring people alongwith you versus just saying, hey
, this is the way we're going todo it, because I said so, which
does not work, as we know, in auniversity, and particularly
environments with sharedgovernance.
Wendy Colby (21:17):
Yeah, I say a lot here.
We can't have a.
Meredith Rosenberg (21:19):
Thou shalt Exactly, you've got to bring
everyone along, but the leadersthat I love in the university
setting are ones that think ofwhat is possible and that are
very aspirational to think aboutwhat is the future.
And let's think about what'spossible and then how do we
build that.
And that might take severalyears to get there, but those
leaders are really the mostexciting.
They're entrepreneurial,they're innovative, they're
(21:40):
creative.
They think innovative.
They're creative.
They think beyond what hasalways been done to what should
be done.
And how do we think about that?
That art of the possible right,yeah no, I love that.
Wendy Colby (21:49):
That's exciting.
It's super excitingcollaboration of how we bring
the best of sort of industry andacademic together to really
reinvent and reinvigorate.
As you said earlier, you knowwhere our space is going, so I
want to switch a little bit to.
You know the ed tech side ofyour world.
(22:12):
You know where I also spent afair amount of time, and it's an
exciting space.
Every year I'm seeing more andmore ed techs popping up in the
space, and you know that's a lotof where innovation is fueled
today, right, and so I wonder ifyou can talk about any of the
trends you're seeing in highereducation today, for instance?
You know we talked a little bitabout online learning, creation
(22:34):
of pathways.
You know the skills andmicro-credentials all seem to be
hot topics today.
Ai, of course, is on everyone'smind.
What do you see?
Meredith Rosenberg (22:45):
I mean, how much time do we have?
Wendy Colby (22:47):
That's such a broad question.
Well, pick one.
Meredith Rosenberg (22:50):
Pick one or two.
I think in this time whereuniversities are budget
constrained, they want tocontinue the level of delivery
of product.
They have to think morecreatively about what are
solutions that help us runthings a little more effectively
, and that could be in anythingfrom software technology,
(23:10):
delivery, career services,mental health, and so I think
universities are, and should be,relying at external companies.
To get your question about whated tech trends are we seeing
there are ways to run systemsbetter and more efficiently so
you can focus more on yourpeople.
Frankly, that's what we didwhen we founded our company to
(23:32):
think about how can we use AIand tech to really be much more
efficient and effective, to freeup our time, to spend it on
what really matters, which ispeople, and it gets back to what
I was saying before about thecare and keeping of people and
content and delivery.
That is super important tothink about.
(23:53):
So when I think about ed techand I think about what are those
industries that are growingagain, what is going to help a
university run itself better,deliver things more efficiently,
so you can rely on again?
What is going to help auniversity run itself better,
deliver things more efficiently,so you can rely on again what
really matters.
Wendy Colby (24:06):
I think that's wonderful.
We here too at BU are in theprocess of standing up a new AI
development accelerator and thatis focused on Sorry, I had to
take a drink of water there,sorry about that that is focused
on really surfacing all thegood work that is going on
across the university relativeto AI, and we ourselves are
(24:29):
taking a look at theadministrative side and the
academic side and how that mightfeed and grow, you know,
increased value inside theclassroom, because there's some
amazing things we're doing nowin teaching and learning and at
the same time but I appreciatethat human element right.
What can we be doing better toinform and work with our
students but perhaps save time?
On efficiencies?
(24:50):
That's right.
You know reviewing applicationsor submitting contracts right,
there are some things that wecan do with AI that should
increase those efficiencies.
So I'm really excited to seewhere that goes and I think
we're all studying that today.
Meredith Rosenberg (25:03):
So we just a personal example.
So when we built our companyand now we've just last year was
our first full year ofoperations, ending in December
24.
Congratulations, thank you.
We asked our team to thinkabout how they're using these
different tools and we measuredthat, and again this is about a
(25:26):
year ago, so it's probably timewe did this again that people on
average were saving between 10and 12 hours a week based on
these tools that we wereimplementing into the daily
workflow, which means that youhave 10 to 12 extra hours per
person to spend on being morecreative, talking more with your
clients, with your candidates,and so AI and tech shouldn't
(25:46):
replace people, but it shouldmaybe change the way we're
thinking about things anddelivering things.
So it frees me up to do the morepeople centric things that I
have to do, and so I think in auniversity, are there ways to
incorporate tech in differentways.
Yes, it could be a little scaryfor someone who's been in a
(26:06):
university for so long, becauseyour job might fundamentally
shift and you have to reallyreimagine what your job could be
and how you add value, but thatis really the way universities
are moving.
I think and you can see to youroriginal question about what
aspects of ed tech or softwaretech are really growing or
software tech are really growingI think it's more about what's
(26:29):
going to be additive to helpuniversities be more efficient
so they can focus again on whatreally matters with the people
Sure, efficient and innovative,maybe as well, exactly, and
innovative, yeah, and anotherarea maybe to circle back on,
because I know it's near anddear to your heart when you were
talking about the sense ofbelonging and mental health.
Wendy Colby (26:46):
We see this a lot inside the university today.
In fact, even in our onlineprograms.
We've incorporated tools insidethe online programs to allow
students to have places ofoutreach right, especially if
they're feeling isolated andwant to have a greater sense of
belonging.
And I wonder what you're seeingin this space too.
Are there any areas that you'resort of taking a close look at
(27:08):
here, just given your work inthis space?
Meredith Rosenberg (27:10):
So we have seen more companies focused on
mental health that are adaptedby universities and brought in
at the very beginning.
So, whether that's in studentaffairs, student services, it's
more now a way of doing thingsversus a nice to have Right now,
a way of doing things versus anice to have.
So offering those kinds ofsolutions really, on whether
(27:32):
it's an orientation or makingstudents aware of the ability,
to reach out and what'savailable.
It's so important because,you're right, tech can be very
isolating, and so being able tobalance increased use of
technology with bringingcommunities more together and
other online solutions that areadditive to the in-person
(27:55):
contact is important, right, butthat is a real huge area of
growth, certainly in the market.
Wendy Colby (28:00):
Yeah, you think about, like telehealth and where
that's gone today, right aswell.
A question I have around wherewe're headed in education.
We've talked a little bit aboutthis today.
The education sector isevolving so much technological
change, students' expectationschanging.
If you could wave a magic wand,what do we look like five years
(28:22):
or 10 years from now?
Meredith Rosenberg (28:24):
Well, if I could predict where we would be
five years from now, maybe Iwould have a different job.
I don't know, maybe I would playthe lottery.
I would hope that we are in amuch more collaborative,
open-sourced environment, whichis unusual sometimes for
universities that focus onownership of IP of themselves,
(28:46):
and certainly with faculty.
But I would love to see muchmore collaboration across
universities.
That could be regional, itcould be by topic, by expertise,
but, particularly as we moveinto a world where there are
going to be and we are alreadyseeing this budget and economic
constraints, being able to shareresources more effectively, I
(29:11):
think will help break down moreof the fiscal silos and also the
silos that have been created.
So I would love to see that infive years from now.
Now how we get from here tothere.
We would have to be verythoughtful about that, because
that is really a very differentapproach to education.
We have seen certainmarketplaces that have brought
(29:33):
in content in air quotes fromdifferent universities to put
them together.
I'm not sure that is the onlyway to approach things, but
thinking about what are othermodels outside of education
where we've had shared resourcesto move the ball forward.
I would love to look more atthat and embrace that and have
that be the level of innovationand change.
Wendy Colby (29:58):
Because I think ultimately it's better for
students as well, too, and themore we bring more of that
collaboration, that community.
One of the things I have lovedabout higher ed is it's
conversations like this right.
It's so collegial.
I think we're all trying tofigure out how to lift our
industry up, and when we do thattogether is there more power to
learn from each other or createthese kinds of partnerships, as
you're talking, for things likeco-creation.
(30:20):
I was with a colleague the otherday and we were talking about,
you know, some of the globalopportunities we're seeing, and
this comes off of a recent tripI took to India, as you know,
and one of the statistics sharedwas that in India they need to
train over 5 million students inMBAs in the coming years, and
(30:40):
there just is not theinfrastructure to do that today.
So you think about the power ofpartnership and where we could
be driving impact and how mightuniversities come together to do
that.
So I think that's a reallyimportant theme to come back to,
and hopefully our podcast herewill stimulate some of that
discussion, meredith.
Meredith Rosenberg (30:58):
Well, particularly if you think about
that, 2007 was the largestsingle birth year in the United
States.
And I know this because I have ahigh school junior who is
thinking about university andthe world after high school.
So you have this huge group ofstudents that will be leaving
high school.
Not everybody goes touniversity.
Not everybody goes to afour-year college.
(31:20):
People go into the workforce aswell too.
But how can we better supportthese students Because, as you
had said, there are not as manyspots in some of the elite
universities?
Can we start thinking aboutdifferent ways to educate our
students?
What are other opportunities?
Are there global partnerships?
Are there different ways thatwe can creatively support by
(31:40):
sharing resources and thinkingabout that?
And if you think about who sitson the boards of trustees, they
are passionate about their almamater or the institution
they're on the board of, butthey usually come from the
private sector or other placesoutside the university.
Can they bring in differentresources or partnerships or
connections and networks to helpgrow this shared I don't want
(32:05):
to say pool of resources, butthe shared approach to learning?
Wendy Colby (32:10):
Yeah, it's really interesting to think about.
You're kind of getting to thattopic too of alternative
pathways, right, for somestudents they may not want that
traditional four-year degree.
You're seeing models now, right, the three-year degree, or
spend two of the first, spendyour first two years in another
location and then transfer in toX school, bu, and so I think
(32:33):
thinking about these models thatstart to open up opportunities
for students is going to bereally important and it sort of
follows the student intereststoo, I think, which we're seeing
growth mindset, global mindset,mobility, flexibility,
experiences in different placesright it comes to the question
of do we still need a four-yearresidential experience for our
(32:55):
students, like traditionaluniversities have been offering,
as you had said?
Meredith Rosenberg (32:59):
maybe it's three years and a year of work,
or three years here and a yearsomeone else.
We're three years here and ayear someone else, but thinking
differently about what educationis and how we better equip our
students to succeed once theyleave the confines of a
university or college and gointo the workforce or whatever
way they are doing.
We must think differently aboutthat and that's where ed tech
(33:24):
or career pathways or othersolutions or shared resources or
partnerships.
That's really where that comesinto play.
And again, in five years, in myideal world, I would love to
see that much more accepted.
There are some universitiesthat are doing that now, but
having that be much moreaccepted, I think, would be
really exciting.
Wendy Colby (33:44):
Right, I think it is Absolutely, and you know so
many other industries, right,have gone through this kind of
transformation.
Right, education has been justkind of slow in that evolution.
But I think now back to beingan optimist.
Now is that opportunity andthat time.
Okay, I'm going to try to bringus a bit to a close here and I
(34:05):
wanted to just get yourperspective.
We've been talking a lot abouthow you work with constraints,
how to expect the unexpected,what it takes in good leadership
, the listening, and I wasrecently with another university
leader on this podcast seriesand we were talking a lot about
scarcity, right, that scarcity,while it can be scary to many
(34:26):
who are losing or budgetreductions or whatever the case
might be, it can also reallyencourage innovation and
resourcefulness.
And so I wonder if you couldexpand a little bit of your view
on that and any examples youmight share in your own personal
experience where scarcityactually was a catalyst.
Meredith Rosenberg (34:45):
I really agree with that.
There are many different thingsthat stimulate innovation and
change, as we know, but scarcitycertainly is one of those.
And so really thinking about Ithink with education, about how
do we train our students to beleaders of the future If they're
not able to get what they needfrom a traditional university
because either spots are scarcein entering classes or they
(35:09):
don't have access that isscarcity that really stimulates
others to think about againalternative pathways, other
credentials, other ways ofteaching, immersive learning,
different kinds of experiences.
So I think that is actually areally great example of what
we're already seeing withscarcity.
It's a different way to thinkabout that, but I do certainly
(35:31):
believe in that.
Wendy Colby (35:33):
Brave new world right.
It's going to open up bold newopportunities for higher
education.
Meredith Rosenberg (35:38):
I hope so, but it does also then come down
to capital and where the capitalcome from.
Is it coming from privateindustry?
Is it coming from university?
That's moving resources, maybefrom one area to another, to
build up these different areas,and that is always the
constraint.
But how can you be creative tocontinually move the ball
forward?
(35:58):
Super important to think aboutit that way.
Wendy Colby (36:01):
Well, you just kind of a great way maybe to close
here.
Right is you've brought thepragmatist back.
You've put the business acumenback in.
Let's make sure we're doingthings smart and in the right
ways that are going to drive thekind of growth and evolution
and promote creativity.
But for a reason.
Meredith Rosenberg (36:18):
I think, to come back to your first question
about leadership, it's beingaspirational and thinking about
what is possible within yourcurrent constraints.
And that is not new orrevolutionary, but it really
guides things about.
Here's the situation.
What can we do better, how dowe get there and how are we
going to drive the ball forward,and what are the resources you
need to do that?
Wendy Colby (36:39):
And maybe, in closing, what is exciting to you
in your current business today.
What are you working on?
Meredith Rosenberg (36:45):
So many different things that I'm
working on, so I focus on theeducation sector.
As you know, I've been in thisindustry as a search consultant,
as an advisor, now for maybe 15years or so.
My colleagues focus on allother industries, and so what I
find really interesting is howwe can bring in people from
outside of education into theeducation sector by thinking
(37:07):
about what does this industryreally need and who has the
right skills and competenciesfrom outside to bring them in
and get them excited about this.
Wendy Colby (37:17):
Well, we're going to need to talk further, for
sure, as we advance our mission.
Meredith Rosenberg (37:20):
I would love to Love it Well.
Wendy Colby (37:21):
Thank you so much, Meredith.
It has been a pleasure.
Thank you so much, Wendy, beena pleasure.
Thank you so much, Wendy.
Thank you for joining us forthis BU Virtual Connects podcast
.
Special thanks to my colleaguesat BU Virtual and to our media
team who produces this podcastunder the leadership of our
(37:42):
studio director, George Vago.
To keep up with our BU VirtualConnects series, be sure to
subscribe wherever you listen toyour favorite podcasts.
You can also learn more aboutour portfolio of online programs
at BU Virtual by visiting bu.
edu/ virtual.
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