In this episode, Karen Markel, a longtime educator and academic leader currently at the College of Business at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs, is drawing upon her years of experience in higher education, business and human resources management to drive transformation and to create opportunities for dialogue and exchange across a community of educators. P3 EDU, which she and her business partner James Sparkman launched a few years ago, is now a vital forum for higher education leaders to learn from one another, and to effectively drive more impact for all. Throughout her years in academia, she has witnessed the lack of basic business skills in higher education leaders, often experts in their disciplines, but often missing the training or experience in strategic planning, managing budgets, or how to be an effective leader. In her own words: “I think we need to take this moment and say this is an opportunity for us to reshape and rethink what we do.”
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Wendy Colby (00:10):
This is Wendy Colby , vice President and Associate
Provost at Boston University andthe host of BU Virtual Connects
.
It is my pleasure to welcomeKaren Markel, professor of
Management at the College ofBusiness at the University of
Colorado at Colorado Springs.
She has over 25 years ofexperience in higher education
(00:31):
and she is perhaps most soughtafter for her work as a
leadership coach, humanresources practitioner and
scholar.
She has served as Dean of theCollege of Business at
University of Colorado atColorado Springs and also the
Dean of the College of Businessand Public Policy, colorado at
Colorado Springs, and also theDean of the College of Business
and Public Policy at theUniversity of Alaska Anchorage
At Oakland University inRochester, michigan, where she
(00:53):
spent nearly 20 years.
She served as a departmentchair and faculty fellow,
working on projects related tofaculty diversity.
I came to know Karen for herwork in facilitating P3EDU, a
higher education public privatepartnership leadership fellow
program that Karen and herbusiness partner, james Sparkman
(01:14):
, launched a few years ago.
It was a privilege to be partof the inaugural fellowship
cohort.
It came at a time when I wasjust starting my work at BU and
I found it incredibly valuableto be part of a community of
leaders steering innovation ontheir campuses.
I continue to enjoy being inthe presence of P3EDU colleagues
(01:34):
and I have greatly appreciatedthe commitment, wisdom, empathy,
understanding and esprit decorps that Karen brings to the
work she does.
Welcome, Karen.
Hi there, Karen, I'm so excitedto have you here with me today
and I wonder if we can just digin Sure.
So let's start off by talking alittle bit about your role as a
(01:56):
professor and dean for theCollege of Business.
What role does businesseducation play in our society,
particularly in changing times,and how did this inspire the
work you're doing today tosupport leaders in higher
education?
Karen Markel (02:08):
Well, my interest or path to business education
started as an undergraduatestudent at Washington University
in St Louis.
I have an undergraduate degreein business and that's actually
my only business degree of allof my degrees, but it laid the
foundation for the importance ofthis knowledge in really
(02:31):
navigating my own career, aswell as my interest in business
education.
Right from undergrad I workedin consulting for a while and
then I got a master's degree insociology, but I was really
interested in doing researcharound employment and human
(02:51):
resource issues.
I had a terrific mentor whileworking full-time at a research
institute while getting mymaster's degree and they really
helped guide my path towardsmoving to get a PhD in labor
relations and human resourcemanagement at Michigan State
University.
(03:11):
So they were reallyinstrumental in helping me
understand what the path couldbe and, based on my interests,
how I could be most successfulin getting there, on my
interests, how I could be mostsuccessful in getting there.
And then, you know, after I gotmy first job at Oakland
University, I rose through theranks of a tenured faculty
(03:33):
member and while rising throughthe ranks, I had these amazing
opportunities to take ondifferent leadership roles in
support of not only the Collegeof Business but the broader
campus at Oakland University,and this really sparked my
interest in pursuing even moreresponsible positions.
(03:55):
And, like so many things inhigher ed, you often have to
move or relocate or find aninstitution for those
opportunities, and so I was at atime in my career where I was
ready to jump in and become adean and moved into that role at
several institutions.
(04:16):
For me, business education playsa really important role in our
society, particularly in thesetimes of rapid change.
In my opinion, and as Imentioned before, basic business
skills are a necessity for notonly managing your own life but
(04:37):
in your organizational role.
Learning about everything frombasic accounting, investment
management and your rights andresponsibilities as an employee
are important for navigatingemployment, leadership and
skills to teach futuregenerations.
So I kind of practice what Ipreach in that I tell students,
(04:58):
whether they plan on owningtheir own business or whatever
careers they might pursue, thatthese are skills that will help
them in navigating successfullives.
As a professor of human resourcemanagement, I always see the
importance of continuallydeveloping leaders in all
(05:18):
industries, and I've seen thisin my over 25 years of teaching
across all levels, whether it'sundergraduates, graduate
students or those in executiveeducation programs and after
moving into my leadership roles,I started to realize that the
lack of basic business skillsfor higher education leaders.
(05:41):
These are experts in theirdisciplines from across the
university institution, but theymay not have had training or
experience in strategic planning, managing budgets, managing
people or understanding how tobe an effective leader
appropriate for the environmentthat they're in.
(06:04):
For example, as somebody who'sa lifelong learner in business
leadership and human resourcemanagement, I realized there was
a gap in developing a skill setin performing the work for
public-private partnerships.
Wendy Colby (06:18):
Karen, that segues beautifully, I think, into the
next topic of our conversation.
I love what you've justdescribed there, right, Because
you and I have talked a lotabout this too.
I certainly see this in thework I'm involved in today, and
it's why I was so excited totalk to you.
That business background youbring and how you inculcate that
now into higher ed, especiallyin these changing times, I think
(06:38):
, is just really something weneed, and so P3EDU right has
become a widely recognized forumfor higher education leaders
who are looking to navigateinnovation and change, and so I
wonder if you could describe forus you know some of the goals
of P3EDU, what led you toestablish this program, what you
(06:59):
see as some of the mainbenefits and what's been most
noteworthy for you about theprogram.
Karen Markel (07:04):
So what's really interesting about P3EDU is in I
guess 20 years into my career, Ihad never heard of it.
As a business dean, as abusiness faculty, I was engaged
in a lot of differentassociations, institutions,
different associations,institutions, opportunities for
(07:25):
professional development, but Ihad not yet heard of P3EDU.
And part of that was it wasoriginally created as an
invite-only event for universityexecutive leaders, so those
really at the top presidents,provosts, cfos and, as I
mentioned earlier, I had been adepartment chair, I'd been a
(07:45):
dean, but I really wasn't inthis invitation network and the
goals are really to share bestpractices around a wide range of
public-private partnerships.
And so, while it was an annualforum started about seven years
ago, I had not been in the sortof invite list.
(08:07):
However, I started working withmy partner, James Sparkman, and
he invited me to attend theconference, which was amazing.
It was very different thananything I had experienced.
It was a smaller network.
There were great opportunitiesto learn about innovation in
higher education, which I wasreally passionate about.
(08:31):
But I said to James I said youknow, it's terrific that we have
this convening of executiveleaders, but no offense, you
know, sometimes they're not.
They're the visionaries andthen those who might be more in
middle leadership are performingthe work, and wouldn't it be
(08:51):
great to give them some tactical, practical skills around doing
this work.
So James, who's an innovator bydesign, said, okay, karen, if
you're willing to help me thinkabout this, let's do it together
.
So we put our heads together.
(09:14):
We started thinking about youknow what would this look like.
I had a lot of experience withother leadership and
professional developmentprograms to build from, and
James had the expertise and theexperience with bringing the
private partners to the table aswell as thinking about how we
(09:37):
could engage those privatepartners actually into the
curriculum.
And so we built this curriculumof learning in how to navigate
building these partnerships,complemented by a dedicated
leadership developmentinitiative or executive coaching
that helps every fellow thinkabout how to bring this work to
(10:00):
their campus.
So it's got a broader componentof a curriculum complemented by
individual coaching to helpfellows think about the
opportunities and the challengesaround partnership.
So we cover everything fromfinding the right partner,
skills for contract negotiation,developing the necessary
(10:22):
financial analysis andunderstanding of how to hold
these partners accountable aftera partnership is established.
Wendy Colby (10:30):
Wonderful, wonderful.
Again, as somebody who's beenthrough the program, it's all
resonating, it's all coming backto me, especially the time that
you and James and others tookto do, you know, that sort of
personal coaching and consultingwith us.
And one of my other keytakeaways is the opportunities
we have to work more closelytogether across the higher
(10:52):
education community.
This is something we've beentalking about throughout this
series in our podcast and it'sone of the things I have to say
I love about higher education isthe collegiality we do find
right.
So you know, as you think aboutthis moment in time we're in,
Karen, you know, what do you seeas some of the key challenges
university leaders are facingtoday?
Right, and now you've invitedmore into the room, as you say,
(11:14):
and where do you see ourgreatest opportunities for
collaboration and focus and howcan we foster an ongoing
dialogue?
Karen Markel (11:21):
Well, I think you know, P3 and the fellow program
is really designed to build acommunity of support across
institutions, and James and Ihave been very intentional about
bringing fellows together thatoften don't reside in the same
state or geography so thatpeople can really be transparent
in the challenges that they'refacing.
(11:43):
But I think what we're going tosee more and more of are really
engagement across institutions,really engagement across
institutions.
We're really reflecting on whatare the important relationships
(12:04):
that we have to think about andwhat can we do on our campus.
What are, say, we, reallystrong in?
What are we known for?
And then thinking creativelyabout maybe partnering with
other institutions or privatepartners to bring in expertise
that we might not have or thatwe might not want to develop,
and those are basic businessstrategy activities that we
(12:26):
really haven't had to thinkabout in the way we have to
think about right now.
Did I answer your question,wendy?
Wendy Colby (12:34):
You did.
No, I think it's perfect right.
It's sort of that opportunityto bring together leaders across
different institutions who canshare what the challenges and
opportunities are right and thentogether look at ways in which
you know, through variousstrategies or partnerships, they
can expose each other and drivethis broader learning community
, I think, as you're saying,karen.
(12:55):
So, karen, you're somebodywho's also studied leadership,
human resource management, andyou're out now also providing
leadership coaching services aswell.
You shared a quote with me, Ithink, in the bio.
You shared life never goes asplanned, and I coach leaders to
be nimble and pivot to achievegrowth in challenging times.
Two words I love there nimbleand pivot.
(13:17):
I think now this isparticularly true in this moment
, and so I'm wondering if youcan say more about your approach
and philosophy and share acouple of examples even if
they're generic ones ofchallenges you see our community
facing and the kinds ofstrategies or techniques you
advise.
Karen Markel (13:36):
Sure.
Well, I love that you centeredin on this nimble and pivot and
I think really the crux of whatI want everybody to sort of take
away is that you have to beready for bold changes period.
We've seen that most oftencoming from outside of our
(13:57):
institutions in terms ofexamples.
So when I arrived as dean atthe University of Alaska,
anchorage, within six months ofbeing there we'd had a large
earthquake Literally I amsomebody who has never
experienced an earthquake andhad absolutely no idea what to
do A change in state leadership,which was another kind of an
(14:24):
earthquake, because thisindividual had a very different
perspective on investing ineducation in Alaska and also a
revolving door of seniorleadership.
We can see this across ourinstitutions, that the average
tenure of a president or aprovost is shortening, and we
(14:45):
can count on, especially if weare more in middle leadership,
that there will be changes inleadership while we are serving
our institutions.
For example, while serving as adean at two different
institutions, I had six provostsin five years.
So you have to be ready tofigure out what are your core
(15:06):
values, what drives you?
How can I continue to makeprogress when there might be
these exogenous or changes thatI don't see coming.
But yet I've got to be readyfor, for me, what drives me and
my core values are doingmeaningful, interesting work
(15:27):
that I can feel like I'm makinga contribution, and so the kind
of work that I've been able todo with the P3 fellowship
program and my executivecoaching are really I love to
see people develop, thrive,learn new things, connect, make
new connections that can helpthem in their career and
(15:47):
professional progress.
That's super exciting to me.
I think people also have to beexcited by change.
We cannot sort of resist it.
We have to say I'm ready,what's coming, how can I best
prepare, or how can I be readyfor what I don't even know is
coming?
And then, inherently, we haveto continue to learn and grow
(16:12):
with the new skills needed.
We want our students to do thatwhile they're attending our
institutions, and so we have tolead by example.
So, of course, a recent exampleis embracing machine learning,
and AI in higher education is amust, in my opinion.
We can't hide from what ishappening.
(16:32):
Our students are using it,organizations are using it, and
we need to set the tone for howto be a leader in embracing AI
and thinking about learningabout other models of innovation
that we can bring to ourinstitutions.
So a lot of this is reallybeing open, being nimble,
(16:56):
thinking about opportunitiesthat I share this with my
students that you don't evenknow are going to exist.
But you've got to be ready tothink about how to embrace these
new technologies or new ways ofthinking or new innovation.
Um, you've got to be ready toembrace it and think about it.
Wendy Colby (17:19):
Yeah, I love what you've shared there, karen.
You know that sort of call tobe bold, to expect the
unexpected right and to beexcited about the change and so
that might lead into and you'vetalked about this a little bit
already but you know the futureof higher education right, and
many are saying, given all goingon nationally, that we are even
in an existential moment wherethe fundamental business model
(17:43):
of higher education is broken.
When you think about risingstudent debt, changing student
demographics, how do we bridgethe gap to a new model?
And, again, based on yourbusiness experience, here as
well, what role can leaders play?
Role can leaders play.
Karen Markel (17:57):
Well, I think we need to take this moment whether
we call it existential, whetherwe call it unprecedented,
whatever we want to title it andsay this is an opportunity for
us to really reshape and rethinkwhat we do.
I'm a big believer.
I've always worked at regional,comprehensive universities that
(18:21):
often play a transformationalrole in students' lives.
We have a lot of firstgeneration or nontraditional
students and we need to servethem in a way that's different.
These students are not comingto our campuses only from nine
to five on Monday through Friday.
They want to progress and learnin different ways at different
(18:48):
times, and so we need to besaying, okay, what can we do to
meet individuals where they'reat and what they want to learn
and how they want to learn it?
Some institutions are rethinkingthe role of a degree versus
competency-based education,partnering with industry for
(19:12):
workforce needs, thinking aboutcertificates, some alternative
ways of credentialing educationthat's meaningful to employers.
We really want to just becreative and be open and even,
in some cases, have theflexibility to try something and
(19:34):
maybe it doesn't work, butwe're learning from that
experience.
I think as academics, we arereally committed to our
scientific process of testingand maybe, if it's not a
significant result, we don'ttalk about it, but we can learn
(19:57):
from those unsignificant orfailures in a really good way.
So having that openness toexperiment, I think, is amazing.
Wendy Colby (20:08):
Absolutely.
You know, as you're talking,I'm also just thinking about the
sheer necessity, right ofstrong leadership to steer
through uncharted waters, andI've compiled my own short list
recently.
I happen to be speaking at anevent this week and it has words
on it, like you knowcommunicate, communicate,
communicate right, and plan forthe short and long term and
(20:30):
focus on your core values andhelp others lead and engage with
purpose and humility and createorder from uncertainty and know
when to pivot and look outwardand demonstrate greed and you
talked about this too exudeoptimism, right, and so maybe
just put a fine point on it forme what words stand out to you
as a leader, and when you lookoutward, what do you discover?
(20:52):
That's often something I'mreally encouraging my teams to
do here, too, is look outward,not just inward.
Karen Markel (21:01):
Well, I think I've done a lot of self-reflection
on what's important to me in thework that I do, so thinking
about those core values.
And then, throughout my career,I've always enjoyed helping
others rise in whatever way thatlooks like, whether it's
finding a new opportunity thatmay or may not be at our
(21:23):
institutions, but seeing othersreally move into the roles and
be ready for those roles,whatever that might look like.
And again, I think there's somuch opportunity in new and
novel ways, especially in highereducation.
If we're to even look in thelast five to 10 years of what
(21:45):
our positions are called right,we have vice presidents or vice
chancellors of innovation, ofstrategic thinking, of economic
development, working at ourinstitutions.
Working at our institutions,that's exciting, that's
innovating, that's havinginnovation intentionally infused
(22:07):
into our institutions of highereducation.
And then I just personally, Iengage with purpose and humility
.
It's just sort of how I thinkabout the work that I do, and
humility, it's just sort of howI think about the work that I do
.
I think part of that is justworking, spending my career in
institutions that serve astudent population.
(22:30):
These are, I'm often humbled bymy students and what the
experience that they have in mycurrent institution.
So many have served in militarycareers and the experience and
the knowledge that they bring tothe classroom is humbling.
(22:50):
So it's really, you know, I getas much out of it, hopefully,
as the students do in terms oflearning from them, and I have a
very collaborative approach tothe classroom environment.
Wendy Colby (23:04):
Yeah, so looking outward is as much looking
inward at your own studentpopulation and sort of deriving
from that you know actions andexpertise you can take forward.
I think that's really, reallyhelpful, karen.
So P3EDU right, and we'restarting to come to a close here
.
You know known for fosteringpartnerships, as you said,
between academia and industryand others, and to me, and maybe
(23:28):
to all of us, it is becomingeven more vital to look at where
we can deepen thesecollaborations, for instance, to
ensure we have moreworkforce-ready opportunities,
or global partnerships thatexpand reach and mission.
And I'm wondering I know youwork with a lot of partners, but
are there particular kinds ofpartnerships you see gaining
traction?
What kinds of partnerships arethe most common today and where
(23:52):
can we learn, lean in more,going forward and you talked
about this too, karen you know,what should universities
continue to do well internallyand where do we have
opportunities for growth andexpansion?
And I'm sure this will continueto evolve, but I'd love for you
to give us a lens into that.
Karen Markel (24:08):
Well, partnerships with employers, I think, is
where higher ed is going.
There's just this expectationabout accountability and what
can I do with my college degree,my college certificate?
There's a lot of credentialingaround all types of competencies
(24:30):
that we are delivering at ourhigher education institutions
and our student population isclamoring for that credentialing
or badging, whatever that lookslike for the different skills
that are being developed.
We see this you know P3EDU as akey, not only to provide value
(24:51):
to students, but as adifferentiator in recruiting new
students.
Students are looking forinstitutions that can help them
be successful in navigating orsecuring their initial career
opportunities.
If you look at thoseuniversities that are growing
fastest around the country, theyhave significant ties to
(25:14):
industry.
We expect workforce partnershipsto just continue to grow in
depth at scale.
There's private partners whoare really entrenched in this
work that institutions canpartner with on the CFO side of
(25:44):
the house recruiting studentsonline, international student
success and there's continuingto be new private partners who
are developing new opportunitiesas institutions have broader
reach, responsibilities andlevel of service for students.
We see some early stagepartnerships around AI, as I've
mentioned earlier, and expectthis to grow, and two areas
(26:07):
we're covering right now arepartnerships around university
athletics and the trends towardsmore university consolidations
and affiliations.
We're already starting to seethis happening in the last few
years post-COVID and will likelycontinue to see in these
challenging times.
(26:28):
So you know I would welcome theopportunity to connect with
anyone who's interested inlearning more about P3 or the
fellowship program as well.
Wendy Colby (26:41):
Partnerships are here to stay.
I think that's the message,Karen, right?
I mean, you've touched on somany elements that surround our
ecosystem inside of theuniversity and how this is
evolving and changing.
Right, and we can't be good ateverything inside a university,
so that's just going to continueto be important.
So P3EDU is the place to learnmore about partnerships.
There's my little plug forP3EDU as well.
(27:02):
Thanks, Wendy and Karen.
Maybe you know.
Just finally, right, someonehas been deeply immersed in our
industry for a number of years,you know.
Maybe just a bit of advice onwhat advice you give leaders and
then, similarly, students and Iappreciate you've spent a lot
of time talking about studentshere too how do they see the
future of higher education andhow do we meet them where they
(27:24):
are?
So maybe just some closingwords of inspiration.
Karen Markel (27:27):
Sure Well, I think for leaders, you know we can
reflect on, these arechallenging times, unprecedented
times.
These are existential changes.
Regardless, jump into your role, don't be afraid to be bold,
your institutions need it and ifyou exude confidence and
(27:50):
knowledge in navigating thisenvironment, that will go very,
very far in helping to move yourcampus forward.
Being ready and acknowledgingthis change, rethinking
assumptions, thinking beyond ourtraditional silos, both
internally and in leveragingoutside entities, whether that's
(28:12):
private partners, otherinstitutions really being
creative and innovating in yourrole and you know we are often
judged by the pace of change inhigher education I think it
might also be time to reflect onnot disregarding the importance
(28:35):
of shared governance, butthinking about what that looks
like for today's institution.
I think that's really, reallyimportant For students the same
really Be bold, be ready foropportunities.
I tell my students and my kidsyou know you've got to be ready
(28:57):
for something you don't evenknow what's going to be and be
excited about it so you can beprepared for today's job.
But with technology andindustry changes and geography,
all the things that are evolving, just be ready for what
exciting thing might come yourway.
(29:19):
Personally, I never thought I'dbe a dean.
I never thought I'd be leadinga fellowship program so many.
Never, never, never.
I graduated from undergrad andI told my parents I'm never
going back to school, and now Ihave had a life and a career in
higher education.
So never say never.
Wendy Colby (29:40):
Wow, that's great, karen, and that, I think, is a
great place for us to end.
Never say never.
Seize the moment, amplify thosepartnerships, be bold.
All of that, I think, is reallygood advice for our listeners.
So I want to thank you again,karen, for joining me today.
It's been a wonderfulconversation, so thank you,
karen for joining me today.
Karen Markel (30:01):
It's been a wonderful conversation, so thank
you.
Thank you, wendy, for extendingthis invitation, and I'm
excited to share my thoughts andwhat led me to this point.
Wendy Colby (30:15):
Thank you for joining us for this BU Virtual
Connects podcast.
Special thanks to my colleaguesat BU Virtual and to our media
team who produces this podcastunder the leadership of our
studio director, George Vago.
To keep up with our BU VirtualConnects series, be sure to
subscribe wherever you listen toyour favorite podcasts.
You can also learn more aboutour portfolio of online programs
(30:38):
at BU Virtual by visiting bu.
edu/ virtual.
This is Wendy Colby , vice President and Associate
Provost at Boston University andthe host of BU Virtual Connects
.
It is my pleasure to welcomeKaren Markel, professor of
Management at the College ofBusiness at the University of
Colorado at Colorado Springs.
She has over 25 years ofexperience in higher education
(00:31):
and she is perhaps most soughtafter for her work as a
leadership coach, humanresources practitioner and
scholar.
She has served as Dean of theCollege of Business at
University of Colorado atColorado Springs and also the
Dean of the College of Businessand Public Policy, colorado at
Colorado Springs, and also theDean of the College of Business
and Public Policy at theUniversity of Alaska Anchorage
At Oakland University inRochester, michigan, where she
(00:53):
spent nearly 20 years.
She served as a departmentchair and faculty fellow,
working on projects related tofaculty diversity.
I came to know Karen for herwork in facilitating P3EDU, a
higher education public privatepartnership leadership fellow
program that Karen and herbusiness partner, james Sparkman
(01:14):
, launched a few years ago.
It was a privilege to be partof the inaugural fellowship
cohort.
It came at a time when I wasjust starting my work at BU and
I found it incredibly valuableto be part of a community of
leaders steering innovation ontheir campuses.
I continue to enjoy being inthe presence of P3EDU colleagues
(01:34):
and I have greatly appreciatedthe commitment, wisdom, empathy,
understanding and esprit decorps that Karen brings to the
work she does.
Welcome, Karen.
Hi there, Karen, I'm so excitedto have you here with me today
and I wonder if we can just digin Sure.
So let's start off by talking alittle bit about your role as a
(01:56):
professor and dean for theCollege of Business.
What role does businesseducation play in our society,
particularly in changing times,and how did this inspire the
work you're doing today tosupport leaders in higher
education?
Karen Markel (02:08):
Well, my interest or path to business education
started as an undergraduatestudent at Washington University
in St Louis.
I have an undergraduate degreein business and that's actually
my only business degree of allof my degrees, but it laid the
foundation for the importance ofthis knowledge in really
(02:31):
navigating my own career, aswell as my interest in business
education.
Right from undergrad I workedin consulting for a while and
then I got a master's degree insociology, but I was really
interested in doing researcharound employment and human
(02:51):
resource issues.
I had a terrific mentor whileworking full-time at a research
institute while getting mymaster's degree and they really
helped guide my path towardsmoving to get a PhD in labor
relations and human resourcemanagement at Michigan State
University.
(03:11):
So they were reallyinstrumental in helping me
understand what the path couldbe and, based on my interests,
how I could be most successfulin getting there, on my
interests, how I could be mostsuccessful in getting there.
And then, you know, after I gotmy first job at Oakland
University, I rose through theranks of a tenured faculty
(03:33):
member and while rising throughthe ranks, I had these amazing
opportunities to take ondifferent leadership roles in
support of not only the Collegeof Business but the broader
campus at Oakland University,and this really sparked my
interest in pursuing even moreresponsible positions.
(03:55):
And, like so many things inhigher ed, you often have to
move or relocate or find aninstitution for those
opportunities, and so I was at atime in my career where I was
ready to jump in and become adean and moved into that role at
several institutions.
(04:16):
For me, business education playsa really important role in our
society, particularly in thesetimes of rapid change.
In my opinion, and as Imentioned before, basic business
skills are a necessity for notonly managing your own life but
(04:37):
in your organizational role.
Learning about everything frombasic accounting, investment
management and your rights andresponsibilities as an employee
are important for navigatingemployment, leadership and
skills to teach futuregenerations.
So I kind of practice what Ipreach in that I tell students,
(04:58):
whether they plan on owningtheir own business or whatever
careers they might pursue, thatthese are skills that will help
them in navigating successfullives.
As a professor of human resourcemanagement, I always see the
importance of continuallydeveloping leaders in all
(05:18):
industries, and I've seen thisin my over 25 years of teaching
across all levels, whether it'sundergraduates, graduate
students or those in executiveeducation programs and after
moving into my leadership roles,I started to realize that the
lack of basic business skillsfor higher education leaders.
(05:41):
These are experts in theirdisciplines from across the
university institution, but theymay not have had training or
experience in strategic planning, managing budgets, managing
people or understanding how tobe an effective leader
appropriate for the environmentthat they're in.
(06:04):
For example, as somebody who'sa lifelong learner in business
leadership and human resourcemanagement, I realized there was
a gap in developing a skill setin performing the work for
public-private partnerships.
Wendy Colby (06:18):
Karen, that segues beautifully, I think, into the
next topic of our conversation.
I love what you've justdescribed there, right, Because
you and I have talked a lotabout this too.
I certainly see this in thework I'm involved in today, and
it's why I was so excited totalk to you.
That business background youbring and how you inculcate that
now into higher ed, especiallyin these changing times, I think
(06:38):
, is just really something weneed, and so P3EDU right has
become a widely recognized forumfor higher education leaders
who are looking to navigateinnovation and change, and so I
wonder if you could describe forus you know some of the goals
of P3EDU, what led you toestablish this program, what you
(06:59):
see as some of the mainbenefits and what's been most
noteworthy for you about theprogram.
Karen Markel (07:04):
So what's really interesting about P3EDU is in I
guess 20 years into my career, Ihad never heard of it.
As a business dean, as abusiness faculty, I was engaged
in a lot of differentassociations, institutions,
different associations,institutions, opportunities for
(07:25):
professional development, but Ihad not yet heard of P3EDU.
And part of that was it wasoriginally created as an
invite-only event for universityexecutive leaders, so those
really at the top presidents,provosts, cfos and, as I
mentioned earlier, I had been adepartment chair, I'd been a
(07:45):
dean, but I really wasn't inthis invitation network and the
goals are really to share bestpractices around a wide range of
public-private partnerships.
And so, while it was an annualforum started about seven years
ago, I had not been in the sortof invite list.
(08:07):
However, I started working withmy partner, James Sparkman, and
he invited me to attend theconference, which was amazing.
It was very different thananything I had experienced.
It was a smaller network.
There were great opportunitiesto learn about innovation in
higher education, which I wasreally passionate about.
(08:31):
But I said to James I said youknow, it's terrific that we have
this convening of executiveleaders, but no offense, you
know, sometimes they're not.
They're the visionaries andthen those who might be more in
middle leadership are performingthe work, and wouldn't it be
(08:51):
great to give them some tactical, practical skills around doing
this work.
So James, who's an innovator bydesign, said, okay, karen, if
you're willing to help me thinkabout this, let's do it together
.
So we put our heads together.
(09:14):
We started thinking about youknow what would this look like.
I had a lot of experience withother leadership and
professional developmentprograms to build from, and
James had the expertise and theexperience with bringing the
private partners to the table aswell as thinking about how we
(09:37):
could engage those privatepartners actually into the
curriculum.
And so we built this curriculumof learning in how to navigate
building these partnerships,complemented by a dedicated
leadership developmentinitiative or executive coaching
that helps every fellow thinkabout how to bring this work to
(10:00):
their campus.
So it's got a broader componentof a curriculum complemented by
individual coaching to helpfellows think about the
opportunities and the challengesaround partnership.
So we cover everything fromfinding the right partner,
skills for contract negotiation,developing the necessary
(10:22):
financial analysis andunderstanding of how to hold
these partners accountable aftera partnership is established.
Wendy Colby (10:30):
Wonderful, wonderful.
Again, as somebody who's beenthrough the program, it's all
resonating, it's all coming backto me, especially the time that
you and James and others tookto do, you know, that sort of
personal coaching and consultingwith us.
And one of my other keytakeaways is the opportunities
we have to work more closelytogether across the higher
(10:52):
education community.
This is something we've beentalking about throughout this
series in our podcast and it'sone of the things I have to say
I love about higher education isthe collegiality we do find
right.
So you know, as you think aboutthis moment in time we're in,
Karen, you know, what do you seeas some of the key challenges
university leaders are facingtoday?
Right, and now you've invitedmore into the room, as you say,
(11:14):
and where do you see ourgreatest opportunities for
collaboration and focus and howcan we foster an ongoing
dialogue?
Karen Markel (11:21):
Well, I think you know, P3 and the fellow program
is really designed to build acommunity of support across
institutions, and James and Ihave been very intentional about
bringing fellows together thatoften don't reside in the same
state or geography so thatpeople can really be transparent
in the challenges that they'refacing.
(11:43):
But I think what we're going tosee more and more of are really
engagement across institutions,really engagement across
institutions.
We're really reflecting on whatare the important relationships
(12:04):
that we have to think about andwhat can we do on our campus.
What are, say, we, reallystrong in?
What are we known for?
And then thinking creativelyabout maybe partnering with
other institutions or privatepartners to bring in expertise
that we might not have or thatwe might not want to develop,
and those are basic businessstrategy activities that we
(12:26):
really haven't had to thinkabout in the way we have to
think about right now.
Did I answer your question,wendy?
Wendy Colby (12:34):
You did.
No, I think it's perfect right.
It's sort of that opportunityto bring together leaders across
different institutions who canshare what the challenges and
opportunities are right and thentogether look at ways in which
you know, through variousstrategies or partnerships, they
can expose each other and drivethis broader learning community
, I think, as you're saying,karen.
(12:55):
So, karen, you're somebodywho's also studied leadership,
human resource management, andyou're out now also providing
leadership coaching services aswell.
You shared a quote with me, Ithink, in the bio.
You shared life never goes asplanned, and I coach leaders to
be nimble and pivot to achievegrowth in challenging times.
Two words I love there nimbleand pivot.
(13:17):
I think now this isparticularly true in this moment
, and so I'm wondering if youcan say more about your approach
and philosophy and share acouple of examples even if
they're generic ones ofchallenges you see our community
facing and the kinds ofstrategies or techniques you
advise.
Karen Markel (13:36):
Sure.
Well, I love that you centeredin on this nimble and pivot and
I think really the crux of whatI want everybody to sort of take
away is that you have to beready for bold changes period.
We've seen that most oftencoming from outside of our
(13:57):
institutions in terms ofexamples.
So when I arrived as dean atthe University of Alaska,
anchorage, within six months ofbeing there we'd had a large
earthquake Literally I amsomebody who has never
experienced an earthquake andhad absolutely no idea what to
do A change in state leadership,which was another kind of an
(14:24):
earthquake, because thisindividual had a very different
perspective on investing ineducation in Alaska and also a
revolving door of seniorleadership.
We can see this across ourinstitutions, that the average
tenure of a president or aprovost is shortening, and we
(14:45):
can count on, especially if weare more in middle leadership,
that there will be changes inleadership while we are serving
our institutions.
For example, while serving as adean at two different
institutions, I had six provostsin five years.
So you have to be ready tofigure out what are your core
(15:06):
values, what drives you?
How can I continue to makeprogress when there might be
these exogenous or changes thatI don't see coming.
But yet I've got to be readyfor, for me, what drives me and
my core values are doingmeaningful, interesting work
(15:27):
that I can feel like I'm makinga contribution, and so the kind
of work that I've been able todo with the P3 fellowship
program and my executivecoaching are really I love to
see people develop, thrive,learn new things, connect, make
new connections that can helpthem in their career and
(15:47):
professional progress.
That's super exciting to me.
I think people also have to beexcited by change.
We cannot sort of resist it.
We have to say I'm ready,what's coming, how can I best
prepare, or how can I be readyfor what I don't even know is
coming?
And then, inherently, we haveto continue to learn and grow
(16:12):
with the new skills needed.
We want our students to do thatwhile they're attending our
institutions, and so we have tolead by example.
So, of course, a recent exampleis embracing machine learning,
and AI in higher education is amust, in my opinion.
We can't hide from what ishappening.
(16:32):
Our students are using it,organizations are using it, and
we need to set the tone for howto be a leader in embracing AI
and thinking about learningabout other models of innovation
that we can bring to ourinstitutions.
So a lot of this is reallybeing open, being nimble,
(16:56):
thinking about opportunitiesthat I share this with my
students that you don't evenknow are going to exist.
But you've got to be ready tothink about how to embrace these
new technologies or new ways ofthinking or new innovation.
Um, you've got to be ready toembrace it and think about it.
Wendy Colby (17:19):
Yeah, I love what you've shared there, karen.
You know that sort of call tobe bold, to expect the
unexpected right and to beexcited about the change and so
that might lead into and you'vetalked about this a little bit
already but you know the futureof higher education right, and
many are saying, given all goingon nationally, that we are even
in an existential moment wherethe fundamental business model
(17:43):
of higher education is broken.
When you think about risingstudent debt, changing student
demographics, how do we bridgethe gap to a new model?
And, again, based on yourbusiness experience, here as
well, what role can leaders play?
Role can leaders play.
Karen Markel (17:57):
Well, I think we need to take this moment whether
we call it existential, whetherwe call it unprecedented,
whatever we want to title it andsay this is an opportunity for
us to really reshape and rethinkwhat we do.
I'm a big believer.
I've always worked at regional,comprehensive universities that
(18:21):
often play a transformationalrole in students' lives.
We have a lot of firstgeneration or nontraditional
students and we need to servethem in a way that's different.
These students are not comingto our campuses only from nine
to five on Monday through Friday.
They want to progress and learnin different ways at different
(18:48):
times, and so we need to besaying, okay, what can we do to
meet individuals where they'reat and what they want to learn
and how they want to learn it?
Some institutions are rethinkingthe role of a degree versus
competency-based education,partnering with industry for
(19:12):
workforce needs, thinking aboutcertificates, some alternative
ways of credentialing educationthat's meaningful to employers.
We really want to just becreative and be open and even,
in some cases, have theflexibility to try something and
(19:34):
maybe it doesn't work, butwe're learning from that
experience.
I think as academics, we arereally committed to our
scientific process of testingand maybe, if it's not a
significant result, we don'ttalk about it, but we can learn
(19:57):
from those unsignificant orfailures in a really good way.
So having that openness toexperiment, I think, is amazing.
Wendy Colby (20:08):
Absolutely.
You know, as you're talking,I'm also just thinking about the
sheer necessity, right ofstrong leadership to steer
through uncharted waters, andI've compiled my own short list
recently.
I happen to be speaking at anevent this week and it has words
on it, like you knowcommunicate, communicate,
communicate right, and plan forthe short and long term and
(20:30):
focus on your core values andhelp others lead and engage with
purpose and humility and createorder from uncertainty and know
when to pivot and look outwardand demonstrate greed and you
talked about this too exudeoptimism, right, and so maybe
just put a fine point on it forme what words stand out to you
as a leader, and when you lookoutward, what do you discover?
(20:52):
That's often something I'mreally encouraging my teams to
do here, too, is look outward,not just inward.
Karen Markel (21:01):
Well, I think I've done a lot of self-reflection
on what's important to me in thework that I do, so thinking
about those core values.
And then, throughout my career,I've always enjoyed helping
others rise in whatever way thatlooks like, whether it's
finding a new opportunity thatmay or may not be at our
(21:23):
institutions, but seeing othersreally move into the roles and
be ready for those roles,whatever that might look like.
And again, I think there's somuch opportunity in new and
novel ways, especially in highereducation.
If we're to even look in thelast five to 10 years of what
(21:45):
our positions are called right,we have vice presidents or vice
chancellors of innovation, ofstrategic thinking, of economic
development, working at ourinstitutions.
Working at our institutions,that's exciting, that's
innovating, that's havinginnovation intentionally infused
(22:07):
into our institutions of highereducation.
And then I just personally, Iengage with purpose and humility
.
It's just sort of how I thinkabout the work that I do, and
humility, it's just sort of howI think about the work that I do
.
I think part of that is justworking, spending my career in
institutions that serve astudent population.
(22:30):
These are, I'm often humbled bymy students and what the
experience that they have in mycurrent institution.
So many have served in militarycareers and the experience and
the knowledge that they bring tothe classroom is humbling.
(22:50):
So it's really, you know, I getas much out of it, hopefully,
as the students do in terms oflearning from them, and I have a
very collaborative approach tothe classroom environment.
Wendy Colby (23:04):
Yeah, so looking outward is as much looking
inward at your own studentpopulation and sort of deriving
from that you know actions andexpertise you can take forward.
I think that's really, reallyhelpful, karen.
So P3EDU right, and we'restarting to come to a close here
.
You know known for fosteringpartnerships, as you said,
between academia and industryand others, and to me, and maybe
(23:28):
to all of us, it is becomingeven more vital to look at where
we can deepen thesecollaborations, for instance, to
ensure we have moreworkforce-ready opportunities,
or global partnerships thatexpand reach and mission.
And I'm wondering I know youwork with a lot of partners, but
are there particular kinds ofpartnerships you see gaining
traction?
What kinds of partnerships arethe most common today and where
(23:52):
can we learn, lean in more,going forward and you talked
about this too, karen you know,what should universities
continue to do well internallyand where do we have
opportunities for growth andexpansion?
And I'm sure this will continueto evolve, but I'd love for you
to give us a lens into that.
Karen Markel (24:08):
Well, partnerships with employers, I think, is
where higher ed is going.
There's just this expectationabout accountability and what
can I do with my college degree,my college certificate?
There's a lot of credentialingaround all types of competencies
(24:30):
that we are delivering at ourhigher education institutions
and our student population isclamoring for that credentialing
or badging, whatever that lookslike for the different skills
that are being developed.
We see this you know P3EDU as akey, not only to provide value
(24:51):
to students, but as adifferentiator in recruiting new
students.
Students are looking forinstitutions that can help them
be successful in navigating orsecuring their initial career
opportunities.
If you look at thoseuniversities that are growing
fastest around the country, theyhave significant ties to
(25:14):
industry.
We expect workforce partnershipsto just continue to grow in
depth at scale.
There's private partners whoare really entrenched in this
work that institutions canpartner with on the CFO side of
(25:44):
the house recruiting studentsonline, international student
success and there's continuingto be new private partners who
are developing new opportunitiesas institutions have broader
reach, responsibilities andlevel of service for students.
We see some early stagepartnerships around AI, as I've
mentioned earlier, and expectthis to grow, and two areas
(26:07):
we're covering right now arepartnerships around university
athletics and the trends towardsmore university consolidations
and affiliations.
We're already starting to seethis happening in the last few
years post-COVID and will likelycontinue to see in these
challenging times.
(26:28):
So you know I would welcome theopportunity to connect with
anyone who's interested inlearning more about P3 or the
fellowship program as well.
Wendy Colby (26:41):
Partnerships are here to stay.
I think that's the message,Karen, right?
I mean, you've touched on somany elements that surround our
ecosystem inside of theuniversity and how this is
evolving and changing.
Right, and we can't be good ateverything inside a university,
so that's just going to continueto be important.
So P3EDU is the place to learnmore about partnerships.
There's my little plug forP3EDU as well.
(27:02):
Thanks, Wendy and Karen.
Maybe you know.
Just finally, right, someonehas been deeply immersed in our
industry for a number of years,you know.
Maybe just a bit of advice onwhat advice you give leaders and
then, similarly, students and Iappreciate you've spent a lot
of time talking about studentshere too how do they see the
future of higher education andhow do we meet them where they
(27:24):
are?
So maybe just some closingwords of inspiration.
Karen Markel (27:27):
Sure Well, I think for leaders, you know we can
reflect on, these arechallenging times, unprecedented
times.
These are existential changes.
Regardless, jump into your role, don't be afraid to be bold,
your institutions need it and ifyou exude confidence and
(27:50):
knowledge in navigating thisenvironment, that will go very,
very far in helping to move yourcampus forward.
Being ready and acknowledgingthis change, rethinking
assumptions, thinking beyond ourtraditional silos, both
internally and in leveragingoutside entities, whether that's
(28:12):
private partners, otherinstitutions really being
creative and innovating in yourrole and you know we are often
judged by the pace of change inhigher education I think it
might also be time to reflect onnot disregarding the importance
(28:35):
of shared governance, butthinking about what that looks
like for today's institution.
I think that's really, reallyimportant For students the same
really Be bold, be ready foropportunities.
I tell my students and my kidsyou know you've got to be ready
(28:57):
for something you don't evenknow what's going to be and be
excited about it so you can beprepared for today's job.
But with technology andindustry changes and geography,
all the things that are evolving, just be ready for what
exciting thing might come yourway.
(29:19):
Personally, I never thought I'dbe a dean.
I never thought I'd be leadinga fellowship program so many.
Never, never, never.
I graduated from undergrad andI told my parents I'm never
going back to school, and now Ihave had a life and a career in
higher education.
So never say never.
Wendy Colby (29:40):
Wow, that's great, karen, and that, I think, is a
great place for us to end.
Never say never.
Seize the moment, amplify thosepartnerships, be bold.
All of that, I think, is reallygood advice for our listeners.
So I want to thank you again,karen, for joining me today.
It's been a wonderfulconversation, so thank you,
karen for joining me today.
Karen Markel (30:01):
It's been a wonderful conversation, so thank
you.
Thank you, wendy, for extendingthis invitation, and I'm
excited to share my thoughts andwhat led me to this point.
Wendy Colby (30:15):
Thank you for joining us for this BU Virtual
Connects podcast.
Special thanks to my colleaguesat BU Virtual and to our media
team who produces this podcastunder the leadership of our
studio director, George Vago.
To keep up with our BU VirtualConnects series, be sure to
subscribe wherever you listen toyour favorite podcasts.
You can also learn more aboutour portfolio of online programs
(30:38):
at BU Virtual by visiting bu.
edu/ virtual.
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