In this episode of Build Momentum, we are joined by Dr. Quintin Shepherd. Quintin has 19 years’ experience as a superintendent and currently holds that leadership role at Pflugerville Independent School District in Texas. He has a demonstrated history of improving school districts in both rural and urban areas in multiple states by being committed to transformational and collaborative leadership focused on doing what is best for the children in each district. Quintin is the co-author of the book “The Secret To Transformational Leadership,” together with podcast co-host Sarah Williamson, and his second book, “Transforming Education for Systemic Change and Empowered Communities,” was published in February 2024
Some Questions We Ask:
- Tell us more about your career as a superintendent. (01:20)
- What is most rewarding about being a superintendent? (04:21)
- What are your thoughts regarding the 2022 and 2023 RAND research, and how do you cope with stress in your career? (06:02)
- How has scrutiny of the superintendency changed over the years? (09:32)
- In what ways have you developed a shared vision for your district with your community? (11:57)
- How are your experiences similar to other K-12 school leaders across the nation? (15:09)
- What is the best way to illuminate the humanity of district leaders? (17:27)
- As advocates for K-12 education, how can we truly support superintendents today? (19:14)
In This Episode, You Will Learn:
- About Dr. Quintin Shepherd’s career in education (01:30)
- The joys of being a superintendent (04:27)
- The changing nature of stress in this job over time, and his strategies for coping with it (06:29)
- Changes in scrutiny of the superintendency with the rise of the internet (09:38)
- Developing a shared vision for the district and being the chief storyteller (12:17)
- His experiences as a superintendent compared to others across the nation (15:17)
- Humanizing superintendents and district leaders (17:48)
- How supporters can all advocate for superintendents (19:41)
Quotes:
“There are only two types of people who work in schools. There are those who teach and those who support teachers. And never forget that [as a principal] you are now the chief supporter of your teachers in your school. ”
“If I'm not my best self, I can't be an effective leader for the people who are counting on me.”
“Leaders are tremendously adept at filling space. We can create it and fill it all day long, but it's a totally different skill set to be able to create the space and then just hold it for others, to be able to fill that space—and do so in a way that's respectful."
“I'm just a big advocate of going to the community first. It requires tremendous vulnerability, tremendous humility. But if you lead that way, the community will actually step up and help you solve the problem.”
Connect with Quintin Shepherd:
Dr. Quintin Shepherd's LinkedIn
Dr. Quintin Shepherd’s Twitter
Stay in touch with Sarah Williamson:
SWPR GROUP Website
LinkedIn
Stay in touch with Chad Bolser:
LinkedIn
About "The Secret to Transformational Leadership," which Sarah co-authored with Dr. Quintin Shepherd:
Transformational Leadership Secret website
Purchase the print or ebook
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Williamson (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Build Momentum for
Education, a Podcast where weexplore thought leadership in
education. I'm Sarah Williamson,the founder of SWPR Group, an
agency that supports publicrelations, communication
strategies and thoughtleadership support for school
districts, education companiesand nonprofit organizations.
Chad Bolser (00:23):
And I'm Chad Bolser. Chancellor at Ivy Tech
Community College in Indiana.
This season, we explore aparticularly unique perspective
in K 12 thought leadership,humanizing the role of the
superintendent.
Sarah Williamson (00:36):
Throughout the many conversations we continue
to have with superintendents, aclear theme has emerged about
the need to bring more humanityinto the role of the
superintendency. In this specialseries, we interview current and
former superintendents andresearchers to pursue the core
question, how can we better seesuperintendents as real people
navigating complex challenges toprovide the best possible
(00:56):
education for K 12 students?
Chad Bolser (00:58):
We dig deeper into how this important work can help
build community, invitecollaboration and increase
widespread engagement.
Sarah Williamson (01:08):
We can't wait to get started, so let's dive
in. Well, today we have a repeatguest to Build Momentum. Welcome
back. Dr Quinton Shepherd,
Quintin Shepherd (01:19):
Hi there.
Sarah Williamson (01:20):
Well, would you mind starting Quintin by
telling us about your career asa superintendent, all of the
districts you've worked and yournew role? Tell us about it.
Quintin Shepherd (01:30):
Sure. Yeah, this is now 19 years as a
superintendent. I started in asmall rural district in central
Illinois, where you areliterally the one man show. You
have to do everything, and Iwouldn't trade it for the world.
I got to be the financedirector, Transportation
Director, HR director,Curriculum director. You do it
all. And the part that's greatabout that is you learn what it
takes to run a school district.
The downside is you can't reallybe great at anything, because
(01:51):
you're just constantly spinningplates. And so, you know,
there's like, one or two thingsthat you want to be good at as a
leader, but you just don't havethe time to dedicate to that, or
to become great at that. So Idid that for about five years.
It was in central Illinois.
Amboy was the name of thecommunity, and then I was
recruited to Skokie, justoutside of Chicago. The first
suburb you drive into is youhead northwest out of the city.
(02:12):
And took over a fairly lowperforming district there, not
by anything they had done, butit was just a matter of big
change in student population,refugee population moved there,
and so they had seen theiracademic scores and slide for a
number of years, and theirfinancial picture had become one
of the worst in the state, theeighth lowest performing
district in the state, and hadthe opportunity to lead that
district for a number of years,and won the board governance
(02:34):
Recognition Award twice in arow, first district to do that
in the state of Illinois, anddid some amazing things. And you
know how it works? You're livingyour life and doing your thing
and having all kinds of fun, andsomebody calls you up one day
and says, Hey, would you like tolead a high performing school
district in the state of Iowa?
So from there, I went to Iowa,and just north of Cedar Rapids,
Lynn Mar was the name of thatcommunity, served as a
superintendent there in a very,very high performing school
(02:56):
district, and enjoyed thechallenge and the opportunity of
being in Iowa and again, justsettling into my groove when
Head Hunter called me up andsaid, Look, I know how you love
school boards and you loverebuilding communities, and
sometimes communities that arein struggle and strife. And this
was right after Hurricane Harveyhad hit the Gulf coast of Texas
and decimated Victoria, which isabout halfway between Corpus
(03:17):
Christi and Houston. And so heflew me down there to meet this
school board and check out thecommunity. And it was an
instant, instant love affair. Iknew this is where it was, maybe
the first real time in my careerwhere it was like I just was
destined to be there. I knew Iwas meant to be there. And so
moved my family down toVictoria, Texas, and led that
district for the last six years,and got through some of the
(03:39):
rebuilding that goes along withthat, and had some good student
achievement success and greatfinancial success in that
district. And you know, as asuperintendent, you want to
continue to serve in a communityfor as long as you can be
effective. And it was startingto come to the realization for
me that it was time to spread mywings and begin looking. And no
sooner had I made that decisionthat I was going to start
looking, than Pflugerville Texaspopped open, which is
(04:00):
essentially connected to Austin.
We're just northeast of Boston,and so I was hired here to give
my fifth start, because everystart is a new start. So this is
my fifth start as asuperintendent, and I was just
I've been on the job now forabout six months.
Chad Bolser (04:17):
That's quite a resume and quite a journey along
the way. So what have you foundto be the most rewarding aspect
of serving in a schoolleadership role?
Quintin Shepherd (04:27):
I think the most rewarding aspect of serving
in a school leadership role wassomething that my grandfather
said to me when I first told himthat I was going to become an
elementary principal. And thereason that he's so important to
this story is that he had aneighth grade education, worked
on a farm, and when he wasn'tfarming, he worked as a school
custodian. So he went and pusheda broom and cleaned a toilet,
(04:47):
and then came home and did thechores. And when I got my
college degree and became ateacher and eventually became a
principal, I showed up at thefarm, and he was well retired at
this point, not many years leftof his life, and told him he was
going to be a principal. And hesaid, Look, I only know a couple
of things about working inschools, he said, but I do know
this, there are only two typesof people who work in schools.
There are those who teach andthose who support teachers. And
(05:08):
never forget that you are nowthe chief supporter of your
teachers in your school. And Ithought that was so brilliant,
because it put me exactly whereI needed to be, that you're not
the head teacher as a principal,you are the chief supporter of
teachers, and that was my job,and I've taken that role with me
everywhere I've gone. And Ithink that's the greatest reward
that a superintendent has whenthey recognize that it's not
that they're standing on thepinnacle of some mountain or the
(05:30):
top of some org chart, but thatthey are the chief supporters of
the most important people whowork in school districts, which
are the teachers themselves.
Sarah Williamson (05:37):
Yeah. So I just realized, Quintin, you've
actually been on the show threetimes. I just want to point that
out. You are a longest standingguest on the Build Momentum
podcast.
Chad Bolser (05:47):
That is, that's a record, isn't it? Three is a
record, right?
Sarah Williamson (05:50):
No, he's the winner. He's the winner.
Quintin Shepherd (05:51):
If this were Saturday Night Live, like, I
would win some seriousaccolades, some straight credit
for this, right?
Sarah Williamson (05:56):
I can send you an SM inaudible group
sweatshirt. If you'd like, ifyou like.
Quintin Shepherd (06:00):
Here you go. I love it.
Sarah Williamson (06:01):
So, swag. So, okay, so we've talked about the
joy of your role, but now let'stalk about the flip side. We've
talked with every guest who'sbeen on this series talking
about humanizing the role of thesuperintendent. We've been
discussing the 2023 RAND studythat found wasn't just 2023 I
think it was 2022 as well, thatfound that superintendents have
(06:21):
one of the most stressful jobsin America. I know that might
ring true for you. How have youbeen able to cope with the
stress of this role throughoutyour career?
Quintin Shepherd (06:29):
Well, it's a great question, and an
interesting one at that. I wouldsay the first 10 years of my
career, although stressful, itwasn't the type of stress that
I've experienced the back halfof my career, something rather
dramatic changed. And I thinknot just in communities, but I
think nationwide, somethingdramatic changed in that when I
started years and years andyears ago, the superintendency
(06:51):
and the person who sat in thesuperintendent's chair was
widely respected as theeducation expert, and that there
were just certain things thatyou knew as a superintendent,
and generally speaking, thecommunity said, you know, this
is within the superintendent'spurview, and you know you trust
their judgment to some extent.
Now, occasionally you'd hearstories where that wasn't the
case, but by and large, I thinkthis was the sort of national
(07:11):
belief in the superintendencyand the role in the
superintendency, and you startedto see that wane just a little
bit pre pandemic, but then thepandemic sort of solidified
everybody again, at least forthe first few months, like
everybody came back together,and it was we can do this, and
we will figure this out. Andeverybody's kind of holding
hands, and life was grand. Andthen it pretty quickly fell
apart after that. And it fellapart everywhere, in for
(07:33):
different reasons, and that justcreated a tremendous amount of
both pressure and stress. Andthose are two different things.
They respond differently.
There's a great story aboutWilliam Tell shooting the apple
off of his son's head. WilliamTell, was feeling pressure. His
son was feeling stress, right?
And as a superintendent, we werefeeling both pressure and
stress, and I truthfully didn'thave great coping strategies or
(07:56):
mechanisms for stress, butthankfully, I've worked with an
executive coach for most of mycareer. And so I worked with an
executive coach about, like,what are the things that
superintendents can be doing, orshould be doing, or any kind of
education leader to help manage.
And the big takeaway from that,for any of the listeners who
might need to hear this is, youknow, there's just this huge
(08:17):
difference between selfmanagement and self care. And so
what she had me do was just drawa line down a blank piece of
paper, vertical line down ablank piece of paper, and on the
left side wrote self management,and on the right side wrote self
care and self management. Theleft hand column, that's all the
stuff that you do when you'retrying to solve problems at
work. So like, I leave work andtheir problems are still there.
(08:39):
And so for me, I go work out, orI used to go run or cycle or do
stuff like that. And when I wasout doing that, I was actually
actively trying to solveproblems at work. And that self
management, it's a good thing.
That's a healthy thing.
Sometimes people engage in selfmanagement strategies that are
not healthy, drinking, forinstance, or recreational drug
use, those kind of things. Andyes, it does happen,
unfortunately. But then on theother side of the page, on the
(09:01):
right side of the page, is selfcare, and those are the things
that you should be doing to fillyour cup. And when my executive
coach took me through this, Icould list exactly zero things
in self care. It had been solong since I'd done anything in
self care, I couldn't come upwith anything. I couldn't even
think of anything that I wantedto do if I wanted to do self
care. So it was a several monthprocess of me rediscovering what
(09:22):
self care actually means, andthen committing time in my
schedule to actually do thatself care, because if I'm not my
best self, I can't be aneffective leader for the people
who are counting on me.
Chad Bolser (09:32):
So how do you think the scrutiny of the role of the
superintendent has changed overthe past few years?
Quintin Shepherd (09:38):
You know, I think the big part of this, and
this, I've written about thisfor the last 10 or 15 years, and
so I sound a little bit like abroken record, but I think the
biggest thing that happened fromthe onset of my career to where
we are now is that when Istarted 20 years ago, the
internet, yes, it existed, butit wasn't like the thing that it
is now. People did not have theubiquitous access to information
(09:58):
that they have now, so they justtrusted the superintendent had
some expert knowledge and someexpertise, and they allowed him
to solve problems. What happenedwas that now people know I can
go to Google and I can searchanything pandemic response plan,
what should we do aboutcurriculum questions that are
happening throughout the stateof Florida or Texas or anywhere
else? And they can search thesequestions, and then they find
really cool things that schooldistricts are doing, and they
(10:19):
find other dumb things thatschool districts are doing, and
they judge you accordingly. Andso what I realized, and it took
me years to figure this out, isthat there's actually a very
clear line of demarcation, andit breaks down for me along the
difference between complicatedversus complex. And if it's a
complicated problem, there's oneright way to do it. It requires
some expertise, Bond defeasanceschedules for instance, lots of
(10:40):
what we do with HR, lots of whatwe do with legal, lots of what
we do with accounting, these areall complicated, right? And so
you should expect perfection forme and my staff, right? Because
you're not going to go on Googleand figure out how to do a bond
defeasance schedule like that'sjust not going to happen. But
then there's this whole otherworld of decisions that are
complex, inherently unknowable,and I think that's where the
scrutiny, that's wheresuperintendents over and over
(11:01):
and over and over and overagain, find themselves in hot
water is because they take acomplex decision that's
inherently unknowable, and theysay, I'm going to treat it like
it's a complicated decision, andI'm going to tell you the right
answer. And then what happens isChad, who hears the
superintendent say this, he'slike, Oh, I'm going to go on
Google and show you what anidiot you are, and then crucify
you. And they will every time.
And so like, I go around thecountry and I just scream at
(11:22):
superintendents at the top of mylungs, treat complex issues the
way that they're meant to betreated, which is, you go to the
community first with thequestion, not with the answer,
and you say, here's this thingwe're faced up against. How
would you help me solve thisproblem? And so what's an
example of complex inherentlyunknowable? When should we close
schools? When should we openschools? When should we run
bonds? How much should we runthe bonds for? All of these
(11:44):
things are complex decisions,and I'm just a big advocate of
go to the community first, andit requires tremendous
vulnerability, tremendoushumility, but if you lead that
way, the community will actuallystep up and help you solve the
problem.
Sarah Williamson (11:58):
Well, that was actually what I was going to ask
you about is so we know you'repassionate about building
community, and I was gonna say,what's your strategy for
bringing people together to helpsee your vision, or, even
better, to collaboratively buildthat vision together? How do you
do that? I mean, is it throughthought exchange? I mean, that's
a very complex way to do it. Howdo you do that?
Quintin Shepherd (12:17):
Thought exchange is a tool, but you
know, it's like any good powertool, in the hands of a great
craftsman, you can do reallygood work, and in the hands of
somebody who doesn't know whatthey're doing, it's dangerous,
frankly, right? And so I thinkthe strategy is recognizing that
people will come together aroundreal problems, not fake
problems, but like, legitimateproblems that the district is
facing, and you lead with, likeI said, the question itself,
(12:41):
hey, we're facing this thingwhere some of our schools are at
half capacity and enrollment isdeclining, and this leads to a
whole host of questions that wehave about transportation
schedules, the economy of scale,and so on and so forth. We'd
love to convene a smart group ofcommunity members who are
interested in this conversationto help us come up with a
solution. Every single timeyou've done something like that,
people will come together aroundthe table, and it doesn't have
(13:03):
to be on a digital platform. Youcan do it with task forces in
person meetings. Do withstudents. You can do with
parents. You know, you just putthe question out on the table.
And what it requires of aleader, and this is very
humbling, but what it requiresof a leader is to recognize the
difference between creating andholding space versus filling
space. Leaders are tremendouslyadapt at filling space. We can
(13:25):
create it and fill it all daylong, but it's a totally
different skill set to be ableto create the space and then
just hold it for others, to beable to fill that space and do
so in a way that's respectfuland all the rest of it that goes
along with it. But I thinknumber one, you come to the
community with, like, real,legitimate, complex issues that
the community knows that theyneed to face. Second one is
tremendous amount of compassion.
Compassion is another wordthat's key to my style of
(13:49):
leadership. Passion is tosuffer. Compassion is to suffer
with. That doesn't mean sufferfor means suffer with. So here's
how we're suffering as a schooldistrict. Finances are
struggling, and the economy ofscale and so on and so forth.
Staffing, how are you suffering?
Parents? Well, we're sufferingbecause we don't want to send
our kids two and a half miles togo to a school you can't close
the school. Awesome. Let's talkabout that suffering, and let's
(14:09):
see what we can do to mitigatesome of the collective suffering
that we have. So coming togetheraround suffering is another key
part of it. And then I think theother way that you build
community. And again, this was adawn of realization that
happened for me, I don't know 5,6, 7, years ago, is that part of
the role of a good leader is tobe the chief storyteller. In
fact, I have a coffee cup thatliterally says that my job
description is Chiefstoryteller. My cards, when I
(14:31):
hand them out, saysuperintendent and chief
storyteller. And so like, my jobto build community is to go out
and tell stories, stories aboutkids, stories about staff,
stories about parents, buttelling these stories is what
brings people together. And thenthere's stories that get
repeated, and out of thatbecomes a hero culture, and the
myths and legends that greatorganizations thrive on, this
(14:53):
all comes out of stories. And soit's just always storytelling.
Chad Bolser (14:56):
I cannot imagine how you got connected with Sarah
if you have a title of Chiefstoryteller that is so weird to
me, I don't, I can't. It'samazing, right? Okay, so how
representative Do you think yourown experiences are compared to
school administrators in yourlocal area, state, or maybe
(15:16):
across the country?
Quintin Shepherd (15:18):
From what I gather from my colleagues and
peers around the country, Ithink my experiences are fairly
representative of what they'veexperienced as well. I mean,
there's been some tremendoushighs, the greatest joy you can
possibly imagine, you know, thegreatest day you just you can't
believe that this is a real job.
And then there's been other daysthat have been just a living
hell, for lack of a better wayto put it. And I think that when
(15:38):
I talk to my colleagues aroundthe country, everybody has
experienced some version of thatfor themselves, because at the
end of the day, if you thinkabout it, like you know, for
you, Chad, the best day of yourlife is the best day of your
life, and it's really nodifferent than the best day of
my life. The best is the best,right? It's the best that you
know. And the worst day of yourlife is the worst day of my
life. And it actually isn't anyworse, like nobody has a worse
(16:00):
day. It's just, it's just yourworst. And so when I hear
superintendents talk about someof their struggles and some of
their successes, I'm like, Yeah,I see that, and maybe I've
experienced it in a differentway. Maybe it's manifested
differently for me. I think thething that I'm super interested
in, and I can't quite, I stillcan't quite wrap my head around
it, is when things have gottenso bad for some of my colleagues
(16:22):
that they've lost theirposition, not of their own
choice, right? Or worse, yet,it's taken such a tremendous
toll on their health that theycan no longer serve in the role.
And I think again, that's not afailure of them so much as a
failure of the system in notpreparing education leaders to
be able to manage, to be able tocope, and I think it's also sort
(16:42):
of endemic of thesuperintendency itself, which is
that is a very lonely andisolating job. Even when you
surrounded by colleagues thatare superintendents, you
recognize that it's not exactlya always a collegial
environment, right? Becausethere's just a certain I don't
want to call it a threat,necessarily, but that you
recognize that, you know, peopleare moving on a regular basis.
(17:05):
And so there's a political pieceto it, and I think that is
relatively unhealthy space forsuperintendents to be in,
because the more isolated andalone that you are and feel, the
worse it is for mental health,the worse it is for physical
health. That's the part that I'mstill trying to wrap my head
around, is, how do we the webuild better support networks
for superintendents andeducation leaders around the
(17:25):
country?
Sarah Williamson (17:27):
Yeah, I mean, that's interesting. That's why
we wanted to run this podcastseries, is we think that there's
a benefit to humanizing the roleof the superintendent. What do
you think when you hear that?
And do you think it would helpyour peers across the country,
if their communities saw theleaders of those districts as
human beings navigating complexchallenges? Tell us about that?
Quintin Shepherd (17:48):
I don't know.
It's an interesting question.
This is one that's reallyfascinating to me, because,
yeah, very self servingly, ofcourse, of course, I want people
to see me as like a real humanbeing who, you know has feelings
and actually needs to eat andsleep and do normal human
things. But the fact of thematter is, I think that's a
really hard challenge, becausethe average community member
(18:11):
doesn't want to see it that way,and maybe won't see it that way.
That you are in charge of thecommunity's two most precious
assets, our kids and our money,right? And so you better be
better than perfect. You know,like a bad day, you better be
perfect. And so I thinkhumanizing the superintendency
would be amazing, because that,you know, it's a whole
(18:32):
compassion thing, and it speaksto me as a human being. But I
think humanizing thesuperintendency is a yeoman's
task at a bare minimum, becauseI think that the average
taxpayer, the average parent, Ithink their response would be,
don't really care. Like, I don'treally care that this is the
like, this person is responsiblefor these the most important
thing in my life, and theybetter be perfect or better than
(18:52):
perfect. And I don't care ifthey're having troubles at home,
or I don't care if they, youknow, just lost their parents,
or, you know, whatever struggleor strife they're facing with
like they still expectperfection. They still expect
the best. And so I think it's anoble task to humanize the
superintendency, but I thinkit's probably more daunting than
anyone could possibly realize.
Sarah Williamson (19:10):
Well, we're doing our small part here to
help that's what we're trying todo/
Chad Bolser (19:14):
Yeah, and I think this connects to that, because I
think one of the things thatwe've really enjoyed about
talking to school leaders fromacross the country is that we as
community members, as parents,as people that are invested in
the school corporation, we wantto be good supporters of you and
our leaders. How do you suggestwe go about doing a great job
(19:37):
supporting the role of thesuperintendent for our
communities?
Quintin Shepherd (19:41):
That's a great question. I think that one of
the first things you do isexactly what you two are doing,
is to try to humanize the roleand recognize that
superintendents and alleducation leaders principal,
they're real people, and they dohave legitimate issues that
they're facing you know, deathor debilitating disease or you
name it. It's going on for themtoo, just like it is for
everybody. else who's listeningor watching this right now, and
(20:01):
I think that that goes a longway. I think the other way to
support education leaders isjust with this sort of tacit
belief and understanding thatthe world is full of complex
problems that are inherentlyunknowable. And I think we could
solve this overnight. I meanliterally solve this overnight,
if we could help peoplerecognize the difference between
(20:22):
a mindset of closed and knowingand open and learning, and most
people show up to most problems,close minded and knowing, and
it's a very human way to be, andit feels really good. It's like
a warm, comforting blanket, youknow, like, right now you're
asking me questions, and I'm theexpert, so I get to be closed
minded and I know all theanswers. And it feels great, but
it's not actually the placewhere I should be as an
(20:43):
education leader. And I thinkit's not actually where people
should spend most of their time,most of their days. They should
actually spend their time in thespace of open and learning,
which is to say, what if I'mwrong, or what can I learn from
you? Or what if I'm seeing theworld in a different way, and
there's a better way to see it.
And so whenever folks are havinginteractions with education
leaders recognize that you'reentering that space close to
knowing the only reason you'retalking to the superintendent is
(21:04):
because you're mad or angry, oryou want something changed, or
you know the answer and you'regoing to tell them the answer,
right? But when you're in thatmindset, you're actually wrong,
like 99% of the time, you'rewrong. So what you have to do is
you have to walk through thisdoor and say, I have this
opinion, I have this view, but Iwonder if I can see it from
their lens. Then if you couldget yourself there and the
superintendent could keepthemselves there, we'd never
(21:24):
have these problems, ever.
Chad Bolser (21:27):
I know that just based upon that answer alone,
you will have to come back tothe podcast for a fourth time.
We can discuss open and closemindset as it pertains to
educational leadership. I thinkwe could spend a lot of time on
that.
Quintin Shepherd (21:45):
Yes. We could.
Chad Bolser (21:46):
Sarah, not that I'm taking any leaps in this, but
that's number four for you.
Sarah Williamson (21:51):
Number four coming back, I'm making a note
right now. 2025.
Quintin Shepherd (21:56):
There you go.
Sarah Williamson (21:57):
All right.
Well, Quintin, where can ourlisteners find you and learn
more about you, connect withyou.
Quintin Shepherd (22:02):
I never really figured out how to do this
social media thing effectively.
About the only place that youcan find me is LinkedIn. I do
exist on LinkedIn.
Sarah Williamson (22:09):
That's a great place to exist. I tell everyone,
that's the best place. I thinkpersonally,
Quintin Shepherd (22:14):
I write a fair bit on LinkedIn, and I'm fairly
responsive to direct messagesthere. Otherwise, you can find
me, of course, through ourdistrict website. Pflugerville
ISD. I can be found andcontacted there, or you could
somehow figure out how to get incontact with Sarah Williamson,
and she also is out ofinaudible.
Sarah Williamson (22:31):
I do. I have some information there. So, all
right. Well, thank you so much.
This has been a pleasure to seeyou again for the third time on
the show, and we will have youback soon.
Quintin Shepherd (22:44):
Good to talk to you guys. Thanks. Have a
great day.
Sarah Williamson (22:46):
You too. Bye.
Quintin Shepherd (22:48):
Bye Bye.
Chad Bolser (22:49):
Thanks for tuning into the Build Momentum for
Education podcast. If youenjoyed listening today, we
would love to hear yourfeedback, and we'd be grateful
if you could leave us a review.
Sarah Williamson (23:00):
This helps us to share these powerful stories
with even more people. If youliked what you heard, we'd be
honored if you could share thisepisode with someone in your
network. We look forward toseeing you next time on Build
Momentum for Education.
Hello and welcome to Build Momentum for
Education, a Podcast where weexplore thought leadership in
education. I'm Sarah Williamson,the founder of SWPR Group, an
agency that supports publicrelations, communication
strategies and thoughtleadership support for school
districts, education companiesand nonprofit organizations.
Chad Bolser (00:23):
And I'm Chad Bolser. Chancellor at Ivy Tech
Community College in Indiana.
This season, we explore aparticularly unique perspective
in K 12 thought leadership,humanizing the role of the
superintendent.
Sarah Williamson (00:36):
Throughout the many conversations we continue
to have with superintendents, aclear theme has emerged about
the need to bring more humanityinto the role of the
superintendency. In this specialseries, we interview current and
former superintendents andresearchers to pursue the core
question, how can we better seesuperintendents as real people
navigating complex challenges toprovide the best possible
(00:56):
education for K 12 students?
Chad Bolser (00:58):
We dig deeper into how this important work can help
build community, invitecollaboration and increase
widespread engagement.
Sarah Williamson (01:08):
We can't wait to get started, so let's dive
in. Well, today we have a repeatguest to Build Momentum. Welcome
back. Dr Quinton Shepherd,
Quintin Shepherd (01:19):
Hi there.
Sarah Williamson (01:20):
Well, would you mind starting Quintin by
telling us about your career asa superintendent, all of the
districts you've worked and yournew role? Tell us about it.
Quintin Shepherd (01:30):
Sure. Yeah, this is now 19 years as a
superintendent. I started in asmall rural district in central
Illinois, where you areliterally the one man show. You
have to do everything, and Iwouldn't trade it for the world.
I got to be the financedirector, Transportation
Director, HR director,Curriculum director. You do it
all. And the part that's greatabout that is you learn what it
takes to run a school district.
The downside is you can't reallybe great at anything, because
(01:51):
you're just constantly spinningplates. And so, you know,
there's like, one or two thingsthat you want to be good at as a
leader, but you just don't havethe time to dedicate to that, or
to become great at that. So Idid that for about five years.
It was in central Illinois.
Amboy was the name of thecommunity, and then I was
recruited to Skokie, justoutside of Chicago. The first
suburb you drive into is youhead northwest out of the city.
(02:12):
And took over a fairly lowperforming district there, not
by anything they had done, butit was just a matter of big
change in student population,refugee population moved there,
and so they had seen theiracademic scores and slide for a
number of years, and theirfinancial picture had become one
of the worst in the state, theeighth lowest performing
district in the state, and hadthe opportunity to lead that
district for a number of years,and won the board governance
(02:34):
Recognition Award twice in arow, first district to do that
in the state of Illinois, anddid some amazing things. And you
know how it works? You're livingyour life and doing your thing
and having all kinds of fun, andsomebody calls you up one day
and says, Hey, would you like tolead a high performing school
district in the state of Iowa?
So from there, I went to Iowa,and just north of Cedar Rapids,
Lynn Mar was the name of thatcommunity, served as a
superintendent there in a very,very high performing school
(02:56):
district, and enjoyed thechallenge and the opportunity of
being in Iowa and again, justsettling into my groove when
Head Hunter called me up andsaid, Look, I know how you love
school boards and you loverebuilding communities, and
sometimes communities that arein struggle and strife. And this
was right after Hurricane Harveyhad hit the Gulf coast of Texas
and decimated Victoria, which isabout halfway between Corpus
(03:17):
Christi and Houston. And so heflew me down there to meet this
school board and check out thecommunity. And it was an
instant, instant love affair. Iknew this is where it was, maybe
the first real time in my careerwhere it was like I just was
destined to be there. I knew Iwas meant to be there. And so
moved my family down toVictoria, Texas, and led that
district for the last six years,and got through some of the
(03:39):
rebuilding that goes along withthat, and had some good student
achievement success and greatfinancial success in that
district. And you know, as asuperintendent, you want to
continue to serve in a communityfor as long as you can be
effective. And it was startingto come to the realization for
me that it was time to spread mywings and begin looking. And no
sooner had I made that decisionthat I was going to start
looking, than Pflugerville Texaspopped open, which is
(04:00):
essentially connected to Austin.
We're just northeast of Boston,and so I was hired here to give
my fifth start, because everystart is a new start. So this is
my fifth start as asuperintendent, and I was just
I've been on the job now forabout six months.
Chad Bolser (04:17):
That's quite a resume and quite a journey along
the way. So what have you foundto be the most rewarding aspect
of serving in a schoolleadership role?
Quintin Shepherd (04:27):
I think the most rewarding aspect of serving
in a school leadership role wassomething that my grandfather
said to me when I first told himthat I was going to become an
elementary principal. And thereason that he's so important to
this story is that he had aneighth grade education, worked
on a farm, and when he wasn'tfarming, he worked as a school
custodian. So he went and pusheda broom and cleaned a toilet,
(04:47):
and then came home and did thechores. And when I got my
college degree and became ateacher and eventually became a
principal, I showed up at thefarm, and he was well retired at
this point, not many years leftof his life, and told him he was
going to be a principal. And hesaid, Look, I only know a couple
of things about working inschools, he said, but I do know
this, there are only two typesof people who work in schools.
There are those who teach andthose who support teachers. And
(05:08):
never forget that you are nowthe chief supporter of your
teachers in your school. And Ithought that was so brilliant,
because it put me exactly whereI needed to be, that you're not
the head teacher as a principal,you are the chief supporter of
teachers, and that was my job,and I've taken that role with me
everywhere I've gone. And Ithink that's the greatest reward
that a superintendent has whenthey recognize that it's not
that they're standing on thepinnacle of some mountain or the
(05:30):
top of some org chart, but thatthey are the chief supporters of
the most important people whowork in school districts, which
are the teachers themselves.
Sarah Williamson (05:37):
Yeah. So I just realized, Quintin, you've
actually been on the show threetimes. I just want to point that
out. You are a longest standingguest on the Build Momentum
podcast.
Chad Bolser (05:47):
That is, that's a record, isn't it? Three is a
record, right?
Sarah Williamson (05:50):
No, he's the winner. He's the winner.
Quintin Shepherd (05:51):
If this were Saturday Night Live, like, I
would win some seriousaccolades, some straight credit
for this, right?
Sarah Williamson (05:56):
I can send you an SM inaudible group
sweatshirt. If you'd like, ifyou like.
Quintin Shepherd (06:00):
Here you go. I love it.
Sarah Williamson (06:01):
So, swag. So, okay, so we've talked about the
joy of your role, but now let'stalk about the flip side. We've
talked with every guest who'sbeen on this series talking
about humanizing the role of thesuperintendent. We've been
discussing the 2023 RAND studythat found wasn't just 2023 I
think it was 2022 as well, thatfound that superintendents have
(06:21):
one of the most stressful jobsin America. I know that might
ring true for you. How have youbeen able to cope with the
stress of this role throughoutyour career?
Quintin Shepherd (06:29):
Well, it's a great question, and an
interesting one at that. I wouldsay the first 10 years of my
career, although stressful, itwasn't the type of stress that
I've experienced the back halfof my career, something rather
dramatic changed. And I thinknot just in communities, but I
think nationwide, somethingdramatic changed in that when I
started years and years andyears ago, the superintendency
(06:51):
and the person who sat in thesuperintendent's chair was
widely respected as theeducation expert, and that there
were just certain things thatyou knew as a superintendent,
and generally speaking, thecommunity said, you know, this
is within the superintendent'spurview, and you know you trust
their judgment to some extent.
Now, occasionally you'd hearstories where that wasn't the
case, but by and large, I thinkthis was the sort of national
(07:11):
belief in the superintendencyand the role in the
superintendency, and you startedto see that wane just a little
bit pre pandemic, but then thepandemic sort of solidified
everybody again, at least forthe first few months, like
everybody came back together,and it was we can do this, and
we will figure this out. Andeverybody's kind of holding
hands, and life was grand. Andthen it pretty quickly fell
apart after that. And it fellapart everywhere, in for
(07:33):
different reasons, and that justcreated a tremendous amount of
both pressure and stress. Andthose are two different things.
They respond differently.
There's a great story aboutWilliam Tell shooting the apple
off of his son's head. WilliamTell, was feeling pressure. His
son was feeling stress, right?
And as a superintendent, we werefeeling both pressure and
stress, and I truthfully didn'thave great coping strategies or
(07:56):
mechanisms for stress, butthankfully, I've worked with an
executive coach for most of mycareer. And so I worked with an
executive coach about, like,what are the things that
superintendents can be doing, orshould be doing, or any kind of
education leader to help manage.
And the big takeaway from that,for any of the listeners who
might need to hear this is, youknow, there's just this huge
(08:17):
difference between selfmanagement and self care. And so
what she had me do was just drawa line down a blank piece of
paper, vertical line down ablank piece of paper, and on the
left side wrote self management,and on the right side wrote self
care and self management. Theleft hand column, that's all the
stuff that you do when you'retrying to solve problems at
work. So like, I leave work andtheir problems are still there.
(08:39):
And so for me, I go work out, orI used to go run or cycle or do
stuff like that. And when I wasout doing that, I was actually
actively trying to solveproblems at work. And that self
management, it's a good thing.
That's a healthy thing.
Sometimes people engage in selfmanagement strategies that are
not healthy, drinking, forinstance, or recreational drug
use, those kind of things. Andyes, it does happen,
unfortunately. But then on theother side of the page, on the
(09:01):
right side of the page, is selfcare, and those are the things
that you should be doing to fillyour cup. And when my executive
coach took me through this, Icould list exactly zero things
in self care. It had been solong since I'd done anything in
self care, I couldn't come upwith anything. I couldn't even
think of anything that I wantedto do if I wanted to do self
care. So it was a several monthprocess of me rediscovering what
(09:22):
self care actually means, andthen committing time in my
schedule to actually do thatself care, because if I'm not my
best self, I can't be aneffective leader for the people
who are counting on me.
Chad Bolser (09:32):
So how do you think the scrutiny of the role of the
superintendent has changed overthe past few years?
Quintin Shepherd (09:38):
You know, I think the big part of this, and
this, I've written about thisfor the last 10 or 15 years, and
so I sound a little bit like abroken record, but I think the
biggest thing that happened fromthe onset of my career to where
we are now is that when Istarted 20 years ago, the
internet, yes, it existed, butit wasn't like the thing that it
is now. People did not have theubiquitous access to information
(09:58):
that they have now, so they justtrusted the superintendent had
some expert knowledge and someexpertise, and they allowed him
to solve problems. What happenedwas that now people know I can
go to Google and I can searchanything pandemic response plan,
what should we do aboutcurriculum questions that are
happening throughout the stateof Florida or Texas or anywhere
else? And they can search thesequestions, and then they find
really cool things that schooldistricts are doing, and they
(10:19):
find other dumb things thatschool districts are doing, and
they judge you accordingly. Andso what I realized, and it took
me years to figure this out, isthat there's actually a very
clear line of demarcation, andit breaks down for me along the
difference between complicatedversus complex. And if it's a
complicated problem, there's oneright way to do it. It requires
some expertise, Bond defeasanceschedules for instance, lots of
(10:40):
what we do with HR, lots of whatwe do with legal, lots of what
we do with accounting, these areall complicated, right? And so
you should expect perfection forme and my staff, right? Because
you're not going to go on Googleand figure out how to do a bond
defeasance schedule like that'sjust not going to happen. But
then there's this whole otherworld of decisions that are
complex, inherently unknowable,and I think that's where the
scrutiny, that's wheresuperintendents over and over
(11:01):
and over and over and overagain, find themselves in hot
water is because they take acomplex decision that's
inherently unknowable, and theysay, I'm going to treat it like
it's a complicated decision, andI'm going to tell you the right
answer. And then what happens isChad, who hears the
superintendent say this, he'slike, Oh, I'm going to go on
Google and show you what anidiot you are, and then crucify
you. And they will every time.
And so like, I go around thecountry and I just scream at
(11:22):
superintendents at the top of mylungs, treat complex issues the
way that they're meant to betreated, which is, you go to the
community first with thequestion, not with the answer,
and you say, here's this thingwe're faced up against. How
would you help me solve thisproblem? And so what's an
example of complex inherentlyunknowable? When should we close
schools? When should we openschools? When should we run
bonds? How much should we runthe bonds for? All of these
(11:44):
things are complex decisions,and I'm just a big advocate of
go to the community first, andit requires tremendous
vulnerability, tremendoushumility, but if you lead that
way, the community will actuallystep up and help you solve the
problem.
Sarah Williamson (11:58):
Well, that was actually what I was going to ask
you about is so we know you'repassionate about building
community, and I was gonna say,what's your strategy for
bringing people together to helpsee your vision, or, even
better, to collaboratively buildthat vision together? How do you
do that? I mean, is it throughthought exchange? I mean, that's
a very complex way to do it. Howdo you do that?
Quintin Shepherd (12:17):
Thought exchange is a tool, but you
know, it's like any good powertool, in the hands of a great
craftsman, you can do reallygood work, and in the hands of
somebody who doesn't know whatthey're doing, it's dangerous,
frankly, right? And so I thinkthe strategy is recognizing that
people will come together aroundreal problems, not fake
problems, but like, legitimateproblems that the district is
facing, and you lead with, likeI said, the question itself,
(12:41):
hey, we're facing this thingwhere some of our schools are at
half capacity and enrollment isdeclining, and this leads to a
whole host of questions that wehave about transportation
schedules, the economy of scale,and so on and so forth. We'd
love to convene a smart group ofcommunity members who are
interested in this conversationto help us come up with a
solution. Every single timeyou've done something like that,
people will come together aroundthe table, and it doesn't have
(13:03):
to be on a digital platform. Youcan do it with task forces in
person meetings. Do withstudents. You can do with
parents. You know, you just putthe question out on the table.
And what it requires of aleader, and this is very
humbling, but what it requiresof a leader is to recognize the
difference between creating andholding space versus filling
space. Leaders are tremendouslyadapt at filling space. We can
(13:25):
create it and fill it all daylong, but it's a totally
different skill set to be ableto create the space and then
just hold it for others, to beable to fill that space and do
so in a way that's respectfuland all the rest of it that goes
along with it. But I thinknumber one, you come to the
community with, like, real,legitimate, complex issues that
the community knows that theyneed to face. Second one is
tremendous amount of compassion.
Compassion is another wordthat's key to my style of
(13:49):
leadership. Passion is tosuffer. Compassion is to suffer
with. That doesn't mean sufferfor means suffer with. So here's
how we're suffering as a schooldistrict. Finances are
struggling, and the economy ofscale and so on and so forth.
Staffing, how are you suffering?
Parents? Well, we're sufferingbecause we don't want to send
our kids two and a half miles togo to a school you can't close
the school. Awesome. Let's talkabout that suffering, and let's
(14:09):
see what we can do to mitigatesome of the collective suffering
that we have. So coming togetheraround suffering is another key
part of it. And then I think theother way that you build
community. And again, this was adawn of realization that
happened for me, I don't know 5,6, 7, years ago, is that part of
the role of a good leader is tobe the chief storyteller. In
fact, I have a coffee cup thatliterally says that my job
description is Chiefstoryteller. My cards, when I
(14:31):
hand them out, saysuperintendent and chief
storyteller. And so like, my jobto build community is to go out
and tell stories, stories aboutkids, stories about staff,
stories about parents, buttelling these stories is what
brings people together. And thenthere's stories that get
repeated, and out of thatbecomes a hero culture, and the
myths and legends that greatorganizations thrive on, this
(14:53):
all comes out of stories. And soit's just always storytelling.
Chad Bolser (14:56):
I cannot imagine how you got connected with Sarah
if you have a title of Chiefstoryteller that is so weird to
me, I don't, I can't. It'samazing, right? Okay, so how
representative Do you think yourown experiences are compared to
school administrators in yourlocal area, state, or maybe
(15:16):
across the country?
Quintin Shepherd (15:18):
From what I gather from my colleagues and
peers around the country, Ithink my experiences are fairly
representative of what they'veexperienced as well. I mean,
there's been some tremendoushighs, the greatest joy you can
possibly imagine, you know, thegreatest day you just you can't
believe that this is a real job.
And then there's been other daysthat have been just a living
hell, for lack of a better wayto put it. And I think that when
(15:38):
I talk to my colleagues aroundthe country, everybody has
experienced some version of thatfor themselves, because at the
end of the day, if you thinkabout it, like you know, for
you, Chad, the best day of yourlife is the best day of your
life, and it's really nodifferent than the best day of
my life. The best is the best,right? It's the best that you
know. And the worst day of yourlife is the worst day of my
life. And it actually isn't anyworse, like nobody has a worse
(16:00):
day. It's just, it's just yourworst. And so when I hear
superintendents talk about someof their struggles and some of
their successes, I'm like, Yeah,I see that, and maybe I've
experienced it in a differentway. Maybe it's manifested
differently for me. I think thething that I'm super interested
in, and I can't quite, I stillcan't quite wrap my head around
it, is when things have gottenso bad for some of my colleagues
(16:22):
that they've lost theirposition, not of their own
choice, right? Or worse, yet,it's taken such a tremendous
toll on their health that theycan no longer serve in the role.
And I think again, that's not afailure of them so much as a
failure of the system in notpreparing education leaders to
be able to manage, to be able tocope, and I think it's also sort
(16:42):
of endemic of thesuperintendency itself, which is
that is a very lonely andisolating job. Even when you
surrounded by colleagues thatare superintendents, you
recognize that it's not exactlya always a collegial
environment, right? Becausethere's just a certain I don't
want to call it a threat,necessarily, but that you
recognize that, you know, peopleare moving on a regular basis.
(17:05):
And so there's a political pieceto it, and I think that is
relatively unhealthy space forsuperintendents to be in,
because the more isolated andalone that you are and feel, the
worse it is for mental health,the worse it is for physical
health. That's the part that I'mstill trying to wrap my head
around, is, how do we the webuild better support networks
for superintendents andeducation leaders around the
(17:25):
country?
Sarah Williamson (17:27):
Yeah, I mean, that's interesting. That's why
we wanted to run this podcastseries, is we think that there's
a benefit to humanizing the roleof the superintendent. What do
you think when you hear that?
And do you think it would helpyour peers across the country,
if their communities saw theleaders of those districts as
human beings navigating complexchallenges? Tell us about that?
Quintin Shepherd (17:48):
I don't know.
It's an interesting question.
This is one that's reallyfascinating to me, because,
yeah, very self servingly, ofcourse, of course, I want people
to see me as like a real humanbeing who, you know has feelings
and actually needs to eat andsleep and do normal human
things. But the fact of thematter is, I think that's a
really hard challenge, becausethe average community member
(18:11):
doesn't want to see it that way,and maybe won't see it that way.
That you are in charge of thecommunity's two most precious
assets, our kids and our money,right? And so you better be
better than perfect. You know,like a bad day, you better be
perfect. And so I thinkhumanizing the superintendency
would be amazing, because that,you know, it's a whole
(18:32):
compassion thing, and it speaksto me as a human being. But I
think humanizing thesuperintendency is a yeoman's
task at a bare minimum, becauseI think that the average
taxpayer, the average parent, Ithink their response would be,
don't really care. Like, I don'treally care that this is the
like, this person is responsiblefor these the most important
thing in my life, and theybetter be perfect or better than
(18:52):
perfect. And I don't care ifthey're having troubles at home,
or I don't care if they, youknow, just lost their parents,
or, you know, whatever struggleor strife they're facing with
like they still expectperfection. They still expect
the best. And so I think it's anoble task to humanize the
superintendency, but I thinkit's probably more daunting than
anyone could possibly realize.
Sarah Williamson (19:10):
Well, we're doing our small part here to
help that's what we're trying todo/
Chad Bolser (19:14):
Yeah, and I think this connects to that, because I
think one of the things thatwe've really enjoyed about
talking to school leaders fromacross the country is that we as
community members, as parents,as people that are invested in
the school corporation, we wantto be good supporters of you and
our leaders. How do you suggestwe go about doing a great job
(19:37):
supporting the role of thesuperintendent for our
communities?
Quintin Shepherd (19:41):
That's a great question. I think that one of
the first things you do isexactly what you two are doing,
is to try to humanize the roleand recognize that
superintendents and alleducation leaders principal,
they're real people, and they dohave legitimate issues that
they're facing you know, deathor debilitating disease or you
name it. It's going on for themtoo, just like it is for
everybody. else who's listeningor watching this right now, and
(20:01):
I think that that goes a longway. I think the other way to
support education leaders isjust with this sort of tacit
belief and understanding thatthe world is full of complex
problems that are inherentlyunknowable. And I think we could
solve this overnight. I meanliterally solve this overnight,
if we could help peoplerecognize the difference between
(20:22):
a mindset of closed and knowingand open and learning, and most
people show up to most problems,close minded and knowing, and
it's a very human way to be, andit feels really good. It's like
a warm, comforting blanket, youknow, like, right now you're
asking me questions, and I'm theexpert, so I get to be closed
minded and I know all theanswers. And it feels great, but
it's not actually the placewhere I should be as an
(20:43):
education leader. And I thinkit's not actually where people
should spend most of their time,most of their days. They should
actually spend their time in thespace of open and learning,
which is to say, what if I'mwrong, or what can I learn from
you? Or what if I'm seeing theworld in a different way, and
there's a better way to see it.
And so whenever folks are havinginteractions with education
leaders recognize that you'reentering that space close to
knowing the only reason you'retalking to the superintendent is
(21:04):
because you're mad or angry, oryou want something changed, or
you know the answer and you'regoing to tell them the answer,
right? But when you're in thatmindset, you're actually wrong,
like 99% of the time, you'rewrong. So what you have to do is
you have to walk through thisdoor and say, I have this
opinion, I have this view, but Iwonder if I can see it from
their lens. Then if you couldget yourself there and the
superintendent could keepthemselves there, we'd never
(21:24):
have these problems, ever.
Chad Bolser (21:27):
I know that just based upon that answer alone,
you will have to come back tothe podcast for a fourth time.
We can discuss open and closemindset as it pertains to
educational leadership. I thinkwe could spend a lot of time on
that.
Quintin Shepherd (21:45):
Yes. We could.
Chad Bolser (21:46):
Sarah, not that I'm taking any leaps in this, but
that's number four for you.
Sarah Williamson (21:51):
Number four coming back, I'm making a note
right now. 2025.
Quintin Shepherd (21:56):
There you go.
Sarah Williamson (21:57):
All right.
Well, Quintin, where can ourlisteners find you and learn
more about you, connect withyou.
Quintin Shepherd (22:02):
I never really figured out how to do this
social media thing effectively.
About the only place that youcan find me is LinkedIn. I do
exist on LinkedIn.
Sarah Williamson (22:09):
That's a great place to exist. I tell everyone,
that's the best place. I thinkpersonally,
Quintin Shepherd (22:14):
I write a fair bit on LinkedIn, and I'm fairly
responsive to direct messagesthere. Otherwise, you can find
me, of course, through ourdistrict website. Pflugerville
ISD. I can be found andcontacted there, or you could
somehow figure out how to get incontact with Sarah Williamson,
and she also is out ofinaudible.
Sarah Williamson (22:31):
I do. I have some information there. So, all
right. Well, thank you so much.
This has been a pleasure to seeyou again for the third time on
the show, and we will have youback soon.
Quintin Shepherd (22:44):
Good to talk to you guys. Thanks. Have a
great day.
Sarah Williamson (22:46):
You too. Bye.
Quintin Shepherd (22:48):
Bye Bye.
Chad Bolser (22:49):
Thanks for tuning into the Build Momentum for
Education podcast. If youenjoyed listening today, we
would love to hear yourfeedback, and we'd be grateful
if you could leave us a review.
Sarah Williamson (23:00):
This helps us to share these powerful stories
with even more people. If youliked what you heard, we'd be
honored if you could share thisepisode with someone in your
network. We look forward toseeing you next time on Build
Momentum for Education.
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