In this episode of Build Momentum, we are joined by Dr. Buddy Berry, the superintendent of Eminence Independent Schools in Kentucky. He founded the innovative model “School on FIRE” (Framework of Innovation for Reinventing Education). He was recognized by the Obama Administration as one of the top 100 School Superintendents in America for his district’s implementation of digital learning and invited to the ConnectED Superintendents Summit at the White House.
Some Questions We Ask:
- Please tell us about your career as a superintendent. (01:13)
- What is the most rewarding aspect of being a superintendent? (04:53)
- What can you say about the 2023 RAND study and how do you cope with the stress your career brings? (06:06)
- How has scrutiny of the superintendency changed over the years? (07:41)
- Do your experiences represent other school administrators' experiences across the nation? (09:21)
- How do you bring the community to see your vision? (11:02)
- What are the core values or core metrics that you focused on to change the community’s view of the education system? (16:52)
- What is your advice to other district leaders for building a community? (23:55)
- What is your take on humanizing the role of superintendents and how can the community benefit from it? (26:48)
- What advice can you give supporters of K-12 education about advocating for district leaders? (28:45)
In This Episode, You Will Learn:
- About Dr. Buddy Berry (01:39)
- Rewarding aspects of being a superintendent (05:02)
- His take on the 2023 RAND Study and coping with stress (06:33)
- Scrutiny of the superintendency (07:46)
- Comparison of his personal experiences to other administrators’ (09:30)
- Building a community with one vision (11:17)
- Establishing core values across a district (17:24)
- Advice for district leaders (24:18)
- Humanizing the role of superintendents (26:56)
- Advice to those advocating for superintendents and district leaders (29:13)
Quotes:
“Enrollment has doubled in the last decade. Test scores have gone from the eighth percentile to hovering around the 80s. We started the first early college high school program in Kentucky that's on a college campus. … We've had 500 kids go through that program, and 498 have earned a degree or are college right now. Crazy results from a population that's, you know, 70% free and reduced lunch, 18% homeless, and the vast majority first-generation college.”
“I'm a big believer that your teachers live in the community. They're the people that are mostly talking to everybody at the grocery. And so if you can win your teachers over to your vision and your thinking and what you're doing, they'll sell it for you.”
“You can't win everybody over in one day. So it's about that consistency and that transparency and just being real to them—that I think eventually does win everybody over.”
Stay in touch with Dr. Buddy Berry:
School on F.I.R.E
School on Fire Innovating Instruction
Stay in touch with Sarah Williamson:
SWPR GROUP Website
LinkedIn
Stay in touch with Chad Bolser:
LinkedIn
About "The Secret to Transformational Leadership," which Sarah co-authored with Dr. Quintin Shepherd:
Transformational Leadership Secret website
Purchase the print or ebook
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Williamson (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Build Momentum for
Education, a Podcast where weexplore thought leadership and
education. I'm Sarah Williamson,the founder of SWPR Group, an
agency that supports publicrelations, communication
strategies and thoughtleadership support for school
districts, education companiesand nonprofit organizations.
Chad Bolser (00:23):
And I'm Chad Bolser, chancellor at Ivy Tech
Community College in Indiana.
This season, we explore aparticularly unique perspective
in K 12 thought leadership,humanizing the role of the
superintendent.
Sarah Williamson (00:36):
Throughout the many conversations we continue
to have with superintendents, aclear theme has emerged about
the need to bring more humanityinto the role of the
superintendency. In this specialseries, we interview current and
former superintendents andresearchers to pursue the core
question, how can we better seesuperintendents as real people
navigating complex challenges toprovide the best possible
(00:56):
education for K 12 students?
Chad Bolser (00:58):
We dig deeper into how this important work can help
build community, invitecollaboration and increase
widespread engagement.
Sarah Williamson (01:08):
We can't wait to get started. So let's dive
in.
Chad Bolser (01:13):
We're here on our next episode of Build Momentum
for Education with Dr. BuddyBerry, superintendent of
Eminence Independent schools inKentucky, and so we're thrilled
to have you here, and we'llstart off the podcast with
telling us a little bit aboutyour career as a superintendent
and your work to reinventeducation through your school is
(01:36):
on fire initiative.
Dr. Buddy Berry (01:39):
Yeah, no, it's so as hard as it is to believe
15 years as a superintendent,which are dog years, right? And
so, you know, it's been a funride. I had hair when we
started, so that was, you know,that's something. And so, yeah,
I was the youngestsuperintendent in Kentucky, I
guess maybe ever. Our districtwas going through some tough
times. We had had sixsuperintendents in the five
(02:00):
years preceding my hiring. Andso I was from here. I was
teaching here, and so Ibasically went from high school
math teacher to Superintendent,which was not a career path that
I had ever anticipated. It didwant to be in leadership at some
point, but really thoughtprincipal was kind of the goal,
but they were desperate, and Iwas passionate. I wouldn't have
hired me to be the footballcoach, let alone the
(02:21):
superintendent. And so, but theygave me a shot. And so then once
I got in here, you know, it wasthat I have no formal admin
experience, so none. I mean, Ihad been a guidance counselor
for two years, which was enoughto justify them giving me my
license. And so, you know whatI'll say is, is we said, why not
create the school that you coulddream up rather than you know
(02:44):
what it is now, and so I didn'trealize it at the time, but we
had taken on really atransformative change, as
opposed to an incrementalchange, because I didn't know
any better. So I truly wonderthat, if I'd started this job 15
years later, like right now,would I have ever done the
things that I did then, out ofnaivety, right? Like out of
passion. And so we did so wejust said, we're going to start
(03:06):
a brand new model. We want tocreate the school that we want
to send our kids to. And so wethought it needed an identity
bigger than just saying, hey,school is going to be better. So
we call it the School on FIRE,the Framework of Innovation for
Reinventing Education. Andreally it's kind of our back
symbol, right? Like it's ourbeacon call. And so we were the
first district in Kentucky to goone to 1k 12. We invented the Wi
(03:30):
Fi school bus. We want learningto be totally personalized, tech
integrated, you know? We alsowant to be the disney world of
education. We want to makeschool so much fun that kids
don't want to go home at the endof the day, and so that's been
the journey that we've been on.
Seen tremendous results.
Enrollment has doubled in thelast decade. Test scores have
gone from the eighth percentileto hovering around the 80s. We
(03:53):
started the first early collegehigh school program in Kentucky
that's on the college campus.
And so every kid at Eminence,regardless of a CT, has a chance
of earning 50 hours of collegefrom a prestigious Catholic
institution. And so we've had500 kids go through that
program, and 498 so have earneda degree or in college right
(04:13):
now. So crazy results from apopulation that's, you know, 70%
free and reduced lunch, 18%homeless, and the vast majority
first generation college. Soagain, I mean, I threw a lot at
you, but I mean, it's been a funride, right? So it's 15 years
feels like yesterday.
Sarah Williamson (04:30):
That is so impressive. You're making so
much progress, and you've alsobeen recognized as one of the
top 100 school superintendentsin the country, and you were
invited to the White House twiceto share your work, right? What
is this?
Dr. Buddy Berry (04:43):
By the way, it was at least one of the
Presidents you all would haveliked, right? Like, so it was
for two people. Everybody inAmerica had to have like one of
them. So, I mean,
Sarah Williamson (04:53):
That's funny.
What have you found to be themost rewarding aspects of
serving as a school districtsuperintendent? Sounds like
there's many things. But if youhad to narrow them down,
Dr. Buddy Berry (05:02):
I definitely have one thing that I didn't
even realize, like was inside ofme necessarily, like, you know,
upon reflection, you see it, Irealized that my drug is fixing
things that are broken. So Ihave a passion for finding
things that like a tinkerer,right? Like something's not
running as efficiently or as youknow, and I like problem
(05:25):
solving. I like fixing brokenstuff or making things better.
And so the thing about thesuperintendency that I think is
the reason why it's like I wasborn to do it, and I love it,
like I couldn't imagine anotherjob. And I miss teaching, but
it's a position where you haveenough authority to fix anything
you run into, right? Likethere's nothing that you can run
into that you don't have theability or the authority to
(05:49):
tackle. And so, you know, evenprincipals, which I think is the
hardest job on Earth, they'restill mid management in a way,
like, if they have a vision fortransforming their school, and
they don't have the support ofthe superintendent, they really
can't do it, right? So again, Ithink that's probably the thing
that has stood out the most forme.
Chad Bolser (06:05):
Well, you just referenced the principle and
that it's a tough job. And soone of our questions that we've
been asking throughout thisseries, a 2023 RAND study found
that superintendents have one ofthe most stressful jobs in
America. So we've been askingall of the superintendents who
join us their thoughts aboutthese findings. Do you feel like
(06:27):
this rings true for you? Howhave you been able to cope with
the stress that your role as asuperintendent brings?
Dr. Buddy Berry (06:33):
I definitely think it's probably one of the
most stress filled jobs that youcould ever find. You know,
there's worse things, right?
Like, I couldn't imagine adoctor where every day it's, you
know, you're holding somebody'slife in their hands, right? But
that's sort of how I view thisjob, right? Is that every
decision we make affects thelife of every kid that's in our
building, right? And so the verything that makes it so
(06:55):
attractive to me, like you havethe authority to fix things that
are broken also means thatbasically, everything that ever
is wrong is your fault. I meanfrom sidewalks, and again, I'm
in a small district, but likefrom just in the last 24 hours,
from a classroom not being warmenough, from a sidewalk not
being shoveled, from a teachermaking a bad decision and maybe
(07:15):
not doing the most positivestance to a kid that's being
disrupted, right? Like all ofthat ultimately, is your fault,
or at least it is on Facebookand so, you know, but it does
the same thing that gives youthe good of being able to fix
stuff is the very thing that youget blank for everything, kind
of, especially when you're fromthis town in this area and, you
know, in so, I don't know ifthat makes sense, but yes, I
(07:38):
think it's a highly stressfuljob.
Sarah Williamson (07:41):
How do you think that's changed over the
last few years? Has the scrutinyincreased? Do you think?
Dr. Buddy Berry (07:46):
No doubt, like, I mean, absolutely post COVID
even. I mean, I really think itstarted with the masking
mandates that led to some of thediscussions with DEI, which then
led to, you know, like thefuture of what school looks even
a virtual instruction, you know,when it's cold weather, which
then triggers a lot of peoplefrom the response to being at
(08:09):
home for six months duringCOVID. Hey, you know? And yes,
so we would go years with nobodyat a board meeting, right? And
so, but since 2020 I haven't hada board meeting without the
community there. Now I view itas a positive, because we're
very transparent, and so havingpeople there allows them to see
that authentic discussions aregoing on and things aren't just
(08:31):
being ramrod through, and theboard is being thoughtful in
their considerations. And so Ireally view the public
increasing their awareness andscrutiny, as you put it, like at
our meetings, and beinginvolved, for me as a guy that I
feel like is making the best.
Have I made mistakes? Yes, butI've never made one
intentionally, right like so Ithink that they see the
integrity behind the decisionsmore. So I think actually, the
(08:53):
increased scrutiny has actuallyled to an even better like
standing in the communitybecause of the transparency in
which we've operated, which forme, I mean, again, it's not fun
to have that scrutiny, but it'seasier to not have it right. But
I think the scrutiny has reallyallowed everybody to say, you
know, they're doing the bestthey can. That doesn't mean they
(09:13):
always agree with this, but theyalso know that it's not just a
rubber stamp decision, and thereis thoughtfulness going behind
them.
Chad Bolser (09:21):
How representative do you think your own
experiences are compared toother school administrators in
your area, in your state, andeven across the nation?
Dr. Buddy Berry (09:30):
You mean in terms of that scrutiny, or just
in terms of the general role of,
Chad Bolser (09:34):
Yeah, I think the general overall role,
Dr. Buddy Berry (09:37):
You know, I've had the privilege of doing a ton
of consulting work, and the jobis similar everywhere, right?
And again, that's true for bigdistricts. It's true for little
districts. Like there is thescrutiny, the level of you know,
being having the spotlight shineon you for every decision.
That's true everywhere, theheadaches, the like, it's still
(09:58):
a people centered business andpeople. Aren't perfect. And so
you know, you're dealing withthe same headaches. I think that
the headaches look differentlydepending on the size of the
district. So like here, ifsomebody's cussing you out, you
might have to sit with them atchurch, right? And so that, you
know, in a small community, youknow the names of the people
that are upset, right? And ifyou're at a large district, you
(10:20):
have a bigger scale of issues,but at the same time, you have a
bigger team. Those are also notalways names with faces, right?
Like it's just they're mad atme. You know, we're big in
basketball in Kentucky, and sothe last couple years with Coach
Cal, I feel like, you know, heis one of the biggest spotlights
in the world to be the headbasketball coach at UK, but you
know, he really didn't feel itbecause he didn't know the names
(10:43):
of the fans, like it was justthe fans, right? And so really,
I don't think it bothered him asbad, because it's not like being
in a high school coaching rolewhere you see the people that
are yelling at you and you knowexactly who they are, right? So
again, I think all of thatchanges the problems and what
you face, but at the same time,there are similar problems
everywhere.
Sarah Williamson (11:02):
Yeah. So I'm curious about beyond the
problems, how do you, this isreally proactively combating the
problems is thinking about howyou bring people together to see
your vision for the district, oreven working collaboratively to
build that vision together. Howdo you do that?
Dr. Buddy Berry (11:17):
I'll be honest.
That is, you can't. You know,we've been known for innovation
and really pushing the envelopeabout what the future of schools
are, but you can't do any ofthat without the right culture,
right and so it really comes tobuilding a team that is all
driving for the same goals. Andso we've done that. You know, it
looks differently at the schoollevel versus the community
level. At the school level, Ithink it's crucial to as you
(11:39):
have openings, is to hire theright people, right, like and so
we do dispositional hiring,right? We're looking at hiring
people that are flexible andcreative and they're passionate
and they love kids, right? Andso our interviews look very
differently than otherinterviews from other districts.
I honestly could care less abouttheir pedagogy. I can make them
a great teacher via training. Icannot make them flexible and
(12:02):
liking kids and believe that allkids can learn at high levels.
And so I need to find thatperson, and then I'll give them
the strategies that I need inorder to make them the best
version of themselves that theycan be, and then also selling
that vision of where you'regoing and where you're heading,
and making it so clear, I'venever had to fire a person ever
(12:23):
because of the fact that thevision was so clear. They either
saw that they could be a part ofthat vision, or they said, You
know what? You know, I like you.
We can shake hands and befriends, but this isn't the
vision for me. But then settingthat clear vision also allowed
people to say, I want to be apart of that, right? So now
there's this opening, well, I'veheard about what Eminence is
(12:44):
doing. I believe in that. And sothey come over. We call it polar
bears, and penguins, the polarbears kind of being the ones
that aren't as motivated, andthe penguins, you know, willing
to do whatever. And the onething that I've realized is is
penguins are friends withpenguins. And so if you hire
penguins. They will tell theirpenguin friends from wherever
they've come from. Hey, thisplace is awesome. They're pro
(13:06):
teacher. They believe in us,they believe in kids, and then
they find other penguins. And sowe've, you know, it didn't
happen overnight, but, I mean,we even like actually name and
claim polar bears and penguins.
And so when I was first here, wewere probably in the low 90
percentile polar bears. And nowI would argue we are about 6%
polar bears, right? And again,that may not sound, you know,
(13:27):
impressive, but I mean, thepolar bears are those culture
killers, right, like, and so yousay, Well, why do you have 6%
because there's a teachershortage. And so now, you know,
there is, right? And so, like,you might have to hire a couple
of polar bears and really try tosurround them with penguins, to
try to minimize the impact ofthe culture, but, you know, and
again, that's just a reality. Asfar as the community, it's for
(13:49):
me, I am a storyteller. So itis, and again, it's not stories,
it's testimonies, right? Like,I'm a huge believer in being
able to share the testimonies ofthe change lives, because that's
what we're out to do, right?
Like we're in it to set kids ona course for a future that they
could have only dreamed about.
And so I've got 100 testimonies.
(14:13):
If you were to schedule a fivehour call with me, I could stay
on the call for the whole fivehours telling you testimonies of
kids and the difference thatEminence schools made in their
lives, and that's somethingthat's irrefutable, right? Like,
that's not a test score. That'snot saying we didn't go, Okay,
we went down 10% in seventhgrade English proficiency this
(14:34):
year. Well, let me tell youabout 25 kids that this year did
blank, right? Let me tell youabout these kids like, right
this second, I've got a 25 yearold that was Aaron Rogers agent
out of a town of 1800 before hewas 25 years old. And again, he
used our model, our principles,to do that, and will give us
credit for that, of how to sellhimself, of how to be
(14:56):
professional, of how to thinkdifferently, of how to approach.
Colleges, and he would give us100% credit for shaping him into
being in a position to be at nowhe's 32 and he's the number one
NFL agent in America, and hecame from Eminence, town of 1800
right? And so that's one story.
I've got kids building bridgesin San Diego, first one to
graduate from Princeton, from anIvy League University. I've got
(15:19):
another kid, first generationcollege student, African
American female, and she's aNASA astrophysicist, right, that
went to MIT and has a doctoratefrom MIT, and that's, she's only
34 years old, I mean. And again,part of this model, one of our
early graduates, I mean, thoseare the things that you can't
refute, right, like, and again,we've got another kid that texts
(15:40):
me literally about every day,and he's 32 but he went
graduated high school, probablyan IQ of about a 45 He's held
two jobs, he works atMcDonald's, and he's a
dishwasher at a restaurant. He'sgot his own apartment, he's got
his own car. And again, I'm asproud of that young man as I am
the kid that is the NFL agent,right? Like and so it's, again,
(16:01):
it's giving them these lifeskills to be successful. I think
Eminence is strength is we'vechanged the metric of what
success looks like in our town.
So our town, when the testscores come out, I don't even
know if people read themanymore. And when I first got
hired here, when the test scorescame out, I would have 15 people
in my office for the next fivedays that were griping about
(16:23):
like third grade readingproficiency. And again, 20, 10,
11, was high stakesaccountability, as high as it
gets, but that was my week rightnow, the test scores come out. I
don't know if people read them,because the thing that they're
looking at, how many kids aregoing on to college? What is the
percentage of cleaning? How manyare getting a trade or a career
that they're earning, and thenhow are they being successful
(16:44):
post secondary completion,right? And so we've changed the
real metric of what it means tobe successful in the public
system.
Chad Bolser (16:52):
So what's interesting is the very next
question that we thought aboutis about storytelling, which
seems so inadequate for you inparticular as you tell story
after story. So I'm going toadjust that a little bit and
say, if you were going to like,what do you think those core
values or core metrics that youfocused on in your district that
(17:16):
allows for you to have all ofthose things where you can
literally change a community'sview of the educational system?
Dr. Buddy Berry (17:24):
The best thing that we've done. And again, it's
not what we did first, but it'swhat I would do first if I ever
had to start over, right? Likeif I went to a new district,
which I hope they'll give me mylast contract on Monday and I
can retire from Eminence. But ifthey don't and I have to start
over, I will say that we createda grad profile back in 2011
which was everything else right,like it was the, you know, we
(17:47):
still believe in, you have to beproficient in Math, English,
Science, inaudible. We careabout it. We teach it hard every
day. But like we think kids alsoneed to be able to work well
with others and show empathy andpersevere through tough times.
And, you know, have high SEL andso, like, how do you teach that,
along with English, Math,Science, inaudible. We had a
grad profile. We were one of thefirst 2% of adopters of a grad
(18:07):
profile in America. That'sgreat. After about a year, we
realized that, hold it, thisisn't enough. And so, you know,
I went in one of the polar bearclassrooms, and they said, Come
watch the lesson. You're goingto love it. And it was, she
said, this is world classcollaboration, right? And again,
she was coming from a goodplace, like I say, at polar
bear, but like she was lettingme into her room. She was taking
(18:30):
a risk, right? It was two kidsworking on the same worksheet,
and in her mind, this was thefirst time anybody had ever
collaborated in her classroom in25 years, right? And so for her,
it was like, she was proud,right? And so I didn't bash it,
I didn't but then I realized,like, I got a problem. And the
problem is we have to definewhat world class collaboration
looks like, because it looksdifferently for everybody,
(18:52):
right? Think about Disney. WhenDisney is animating a
caricature, right? There's 30artists that will be making that
same caricature, right? And sothen there is no artistic
freedom. You say, This is whatMickey Mouse looks like. And you
say, here's the parameters indrawing him. And so then that
way all 30 artists draw Mickeythe same way. Is it a creative
(19:13):
industry? Sure it is. You'reanimating for Disney. But even
in the most creative industry onEarth, you have guidelines and
parameters to make sure that theproduct is replicable
everywhere, right? And so whatwe did was we created the first
set of standards to go with thegrad profile in America. So we
said, in kindergarten, you'regoing to do these standards to
(19:34):
measure those outcomes. And sowe said, this is what world
class collaboration looks likefor a five year old. This is
what and again, was it perfect?
No, because nobody was doing it.
But after 15 years, it's gottenpretty good, and we've gotten it
to where, you know, with just afew standards, you can ensure
that high quality collaborationsoccurring. Perseverance, you
know, how do you give becausepeople gripe all the time.
(19:54):
Teachers want to gripe.
Educators want to gripe. Adultswant to gripe. Kids give up. Too
easy, right? Like there's no.
Grit to them. Okay, well, thenhow do you teach perseverance?
You give them the opportunity topersevere. So then you go and
you say, well, we're going tohave this hard project, and it's
going to, you know, and it makesit tougher, and you do it all
the way through. So like inkindergarten at Eminence, you
have to go and speak to 100people publicly at least three
(20:17):
times. And you're five yearsold, you're on a stage with a
microphone 100 people. You'redoing Photoshop, you're doing
AutoCAD, you're getting theseyou have hundreds of micro
credentials you're going to earnbefore fifth grade, right? And
some of them are for jobs thatwe don't even know exist, right?
And you say, well, Buddy, whyare you teaching Photoshop? I
believe it's a lifelong skill. Ibelieve my daughter, of all
(20:38):
things, the job, she's got apart time gig. She's a senior in
college. She wants to be a mathteacher, and she went and is now
a social media marketer. Andthat sounds fancy, she's making
Tiktok videos, and they'repaying her 10 grand a year to
work three hours a week to makeTiktok videos. I mean, again,
all because Eminence gave herthe skills to do video editing
(20:59):
when she went here, right? Andso, so again, and how to be
creative and how to sell it. Andshe got the easiest college side
gig on Earth, right? And sodon't tell her employers that.
But again, it, you know, it iswhat it is. And so we then
define levels of completion ofthose exemplars. So there's a
red level, white level, bluelevel. Red level, you have to
reach or you don't pass. So youcan have all A's in eighth grade
(21:22):
core subjects, but if you don'tpass the minimum competencies on
your exemplars or the standardsthat go with the grad profile,
you fail, you repeat eighthgrade, or you go back to summer
school, right? Like that's howserious we take those other
things. Now we would give youthe classes you need core wise,
but we would retain you in thegrade that you are in in order
(21:43):
to until you completed thoseexemplars. It's never happened.
A couple times we've had kids goto summer school. The other
thing that I will say is, isthat the white and blue level,
though, we've rewarded the fireout of those in terms of
extrinsic motivation, fieldtrips, hoodies, gear privileges,
where to sit in the cafeteria,and then we honor the fire out
(22:03):
of them in May, at the end ofthe year ceremonies, right? Like
huge deal. This is a true story.
And I know I'm a talker, so Iapologize I'm monopolizing the
conversation, but here's what Iwould say. The first time that I
knew that we had changed themetric of success, this is true
story. And again, another story,right? And so we were at home.
It was after honors night, thebig assembly school wide,
(22:24):
everybody's in the gym, and myprincipal calls me, and she
goes, Buddy, have you been onFacebook? And I said, you know,
I don't have a Facebook account.
I'm a superintendent. I waslike, I had over on Twitter,
right? And so I'm not onFacebook. And she said, Well,
you need to get log into yourwife's account, they are
blasting us online. And I said,What are you talking about? And
(22:45):
she said, well, a kid earned awhite like we gave them a white
level reward on the exemplars,and the mom is saying she's a
blue level reward, and she's gotall the evidence. She goes, the
teachers have messed up. Shegoes, the mom's right, but she
said, the mom is lighting us up,and now everybody's piling on,
talking about how awful and howand I said, that's the best
(23:06):
thing I've ever been told mylife. I said, you literally just
made my night. And she goes,What are you talking about? I
said, Angie, we've now made thecommunity care enough about
something that doesn't matteranywhere on Earth, and we've
made them mad enough that theycare enough about it, that
they're mad and they're blastingus on Facebook, which means the
exemplars now matter to thecommunity, right? Like, if a mom
(23:29):
cares enough about that reward,about that honor to mouth us,
then it means something to them.
And I said, we need to fix it.
We'll fix it tomorrow. We'll doa special like, I'm sorry I
said, but that's the best thingyou ever told me. And it was
when I realized it was aboutthree or four years into it, and
I was like, we're rolling likeand now they do. They care more
about the white and blue leveldistinction than they do the
(23:51):
test score that comes out in,you know, October from the year
before.
Sarah Williamson (23:56):
That's an incredible story. And I love
your perspective. It's sohealthy. And I love, I just love
that perspective so much. I'mcurious, what do you tell other
superintendents across thecountry when you're counseling
them on building community? Imean, obviously they may not go
into this detail within theirdistricts and build this type of
a program. What can they do?
What's your advice for them?
Dr. Buddy Berry (24:18):
You know, I think they've got to be
consistent and transparent. Ijust think, you know, you're not
going to win them overovernight. I think the other
thing, and you all mentionedthis increased scrutiny, I think
there's also increased distrust,right? I feel like that there is
a us versus them mentality alittle bit running across
America right now, or at leastKentucky and Indiana, and some
(24:40):
of the states that I'm in themost, right? And so I think you
have to be consistent, and thenyou also have to be transparent.
I think if I threw in a thirdword, it would be approachable,
right? I think being able to notsit in an ivory tower. And
again, that starts with yourteachers. I'm a big believer
your teachers live in thecommunity. They're the people
that are. Mostly talking toeverybody at the grocery. And so
(25:03):
if you can win your teachersover to your vision and your
thinking and what you're doing,they'll sell it for you. They'll
be your evangelist in thegrocery. And you know their
church or in their families, andso you know, but so many
superintendents don't view thestaff as that front line
evangelist, and again, have themtelling your stories, right?
(25:25):
Like, if you can't win themover, you're not going to win
the parents over. And so I viewit as I work for my staff,
right? Like I'll be the bosswhen I have to, but I'd really
approach my job from a servantleadership perspective, where I
basically have 150 bosses everyday, right? And so, and, you
know, I've had three calls todaywhere it was like, there's a
(25:45):
breaker out. Well, I mean,there's several maintenance guys
that can fix that breaker. Butyou know what I did? I didn't
call the maintenance guybecause, see, the teacher called
me. So I didn't say, hey, go fixthis. I ran over to the school
and I fixed it for him. And youdo things like that for them
enough, and it's like, this ishe's a real guy, and he cares
about us and it matters. And soI don't know if any of that kind
(26:05):
of resonates, but I think it'sjust you can't win everybody
over on one day. So it's aboutthat consistency and that
transparency and just being realto them that I think eventually
does win everybody over.
Sarah Williamson (26:17):
Yeah, I think you're right, and I love that
you said approachable, too.
That's one of the things we talkto our district clients about
being approachable, authenticand over communicating all those
things. Absolutely agree. Allright, so Dr Barry, one of the
reasons we wanted to host thispodcast series on humanizing the
superintendent is because we'rehelping to write a book called
On the State of theSuperintendency, and we just
(26:38):
continue to hear over and overabout how superintendents
constantly feel like they're nottreated like human beings. We
see that it's a problem. I'mcurious what you think about
that, if you agree, and thenalso, how do you think it could
benefit communities if they dostart to see their
superintendent as a human being?
Dr. Buddy Berry (26:56):
A truer statement has never been made,
right? Just last night, mydaughter and her roommate,
they're both seniors at theUniversity of Kentucky, and
they're both doing their studentteaching, and so her best friend
is like a daughter to me now,right? Like so love them both,
and the other young lady that'sthe best friend of my daughter,
they're in two differentdistricts, and so the
(27:17):
superintendent one day called anNTI day for extreme cold, and
then the next day was colder,and they said, We're going face
to face, you know? And theybrought them all in, right? Like
they and so the friend of mydaughter, and I'm going to get
to my point, but the friend ofmy daughter was just blasting
the superintendent, and said,You know, I can't stand this
(27:37):
guy. Like, what's he thinking?
This is so stupid, right? Andagain, what's crazy about it is,
she's never met him. She doesn'tknow him. And it's that, it even
she is dehumanizing, right? Andso my daughter was like,
honestly, you need to chill outlike they're saying the same
things about my dad. And she'slike, well, your dad's awesome.
And she's like, well, you know,my dad, right? Like, the reason
you're saying that, but shegoes, there are people that are
(27:59):
doing exactly to him today, whatyou're doing to this
superintendent. And it is, it'sthey dehumanize it. It's a
position, but it's not a person.
And for me, I'm from here, theyknow that, like, I am a person,
right? What's even crazier isthey will go, I've had people do
it where you're literally, theywill cuss you on Facebook, and
(28:19):
then you'll go to church withthem, and they'll be like, why
wasn't like, cussing you? AndI'm like, Who do you think makes
the decision to go and not haveschool? And then, by the way,
just so that you're aware of it,like when you did that, you
didn't mention me by name, butthe 50 people below you did
right, like you saw who theywere blaming. But again, and so
it is. There's nothing thatneeds to happen more than
(28:42):
viewing the superintendent as aperson.
Chad Bolser (28:45):
Well, I think throughout this series and
season, it gives us so much hopeand inspiration about our
educational leaders. And I knowSarah thinks the same thing.
We're fans of and want to begood in support of K 12
education and the educationalleaders. What advice would you
give us, the folks who are outthere rooting for you, community
(29:08):
members, parents, how can we bebetter in supporting our
leaders?
Dr. Buddy Berry (29:13):
It's a really good question. You know, I will
say I think that it starts froma real specific support to the
superintendent. So, like, it'salso, after 15 years, I don't
need somebody to say well done,but you never hear well done,
right? Like, it just doesn'thappen. I mean, for every 1000
complaints, you might get acompliment. I mean, you might
(29:36):
get one, right? And so I thinktaking the time to send that
letter to the Board of Educationwhen they make a tough call and
saying, Hey, we appreciate you,right? And again, I think that's
another thankless role as theboard members, right? They make
$75 a month right now. There aretwo types of board members.
There are those that are runningon an agenda, right? And I'm not
even saying their agenda isright or wrong, but they run on
(29:57):
an agenda, and there are othersthat just. Love kids, right? And
they just want to make adifference in their community.
I'm very fortunate to work withfive of those. And so when I
watch them take heat overdecisions that we're making, I'm
like, they make $75 a month,right? Like, what are we doing?
And so they never get acompliment, right? And so I do
think just being supportivemeans more than you would ever
(30:20):
know. I think the other part ofthat is, and again, I think I
appreciate it more than even acompliment, is when there's
misinformation online,specifically social media, I'm
so appreciative of parents thatare involved, and they will say,
Hey, that's not true. I've heardDr Berry say blank or that's not
true. I know for a fact,Eminence schools does this
(30:43):
right, and that's uncomfortable,because when you do that, you
could open yourself up to thetax yourself. But again, those
are the ones that mean the mostto me. Like that's even more
important to me, because thatmeans a we've done a good job
communicating what's going on,and somebody has heard it right,
and so and then them taking thecourage to dispel it to other
(31:03):
people, that, for me, is themost rewarding thing, even more
so than a compliment.
Chad Bolser (31:07):
So as we wrap this up, and this has been fantastic,
I literally could do and listento you all day long. It's
awesome, and we've had a greattime throughout this year. But
where can our listeners learnmore about you and connect with
you directly.
Dr. Buddy Berry (31:23):
Yeah, you can go to if you Google Buddy Berry
at Eminence, it's prettysynonymous at this point. But
the other thing is, I have awebsite at schoolonfire.org, and
so we do consulting work, and soyou can find out more about us
there and that links you to I,I'm embarrassed to even say the
title of it, but when I was 22years old, I thought I needed a
website, and so I boughtbuddyberry.com and so then when
(31:45):
I got and I hate that it's myname like I hate it, but I'm
also too cheap to buy anotherone. And so like all of my
doctoral research and how to dothis type work, is on there for
free. So That's buddyberry.comThose are the two easiest places
to get in touch.
Sarah Williamson (31:59):
Well, thank you so much. This has been an
amazing conversation. It's sonice to meet you, and I look
forward to staying in touch.
Dr. Buddy Berry (32:05):
That'd be awesome. It was good talking to
you all too.
Thank you so much. Yes, sir. Youall stay warm.
Chad Bolser (32:11):
Thanks for tuning into the Build Momentum for
Education Podcast. If youenjoyed listening today, we
would love to hear yourfeedback, and we'd be grateful
if you could leave us a review.
Sarah Williamson (32:22):
This helps us to share these powerful stories
with even more people. If youliked what you heard, we'd be
honored if you could share thisepisode with someone in your
network. We look forward toseeing you next time on Build
Momentum for Education.
Hello and welcome to Build Momentum for
Education, a Podcast where weexplore thought leadership and
education. I'm Sarah Williamson,the founder of SWPR Group, an
agency that supports publicrelations, communication
strategies and thoughtleadership support for school
districts, education companiesand nonprofit organizations.
Chad Bolser (00:23):
And I'm Chad Bolser, chancellor at Ivy Tech
Community College in Indiana.
This season, we explore aparticularly unique perspective
in K 12 thought leadership,humanizing the role of the
superintendent.
Sarah Williamson (00:36):
Throughout the many conversations we continue
to have with superintendents, aclear theme has emerged about
the need to bring more humanityinto the role of the
superintendency. In this specialseries, we interview current and
former superintendents andresearchers to pursue the core
question, how can we better seesuperintendents as real people
navigating complex challenges toprovide the best possible
(00:56):
education for K 12 students?
Chad Bolser (00:58):
We dig deeper into how this important work can help
build community, invitecollaboration and increase
widespread engagement.
Sarah Williamson (01:08):
We can't wait to get started. So let's dive
in.
Chad Bolser (01:13):
We're here on our next episode of Build Momentum
for Education with Dr. BuddyBerry, superintendent of
Eminence Independent schools inKentucky, and so we're thrilled
to have you here, and we'llstart off the podcast with
telling us a little bit aboutyour career as a superintendent
and your work to reinventeducation through your school is
(01:36):
on fire initiative.
Dr. Buddy Berry (01:39):
Yeah, no, it's so as hard as it is to believe
15 years as a superintendent,which are dog years, right? And
so, you know, it's been a funride. I had hair when we
started, so that was, you know,that's something. And so, yeah,
I was the youngestsuperintendent in Kentucky, I
guess maybe ever. Our districtwas going through some tough
times. We had had sixsuperintendents in the five
(02:00):
years preceding my hiring. Andso I was from here. I was
teaching here, and so Ibasically went from high school
math teacher to Superintendent,which was not a career path that
I had ever anticipated. It didwant to be in leadership at some
point, but really thoughtprincipal was kind of the goal,
but they were desperate, and Iwas passionate. I wouldn't have
hired me to be the footballcoach, let alone the
(02:21):
superintendent. And so, but theygave me a shot. And so then once
I got in here, you know, it wasthat I have no formal admin
experience, so none. I mean, Ihad been a guidance counselor
for two years, which was enoughto justify them giving me my
license. And so, you know whatI'll say is, is we said, why not
create the school that you coulddream up rather than you know
(02:44):
what it is now, and so I didn'trealize it at the time, but we
had taken on really atransformative change, as
opposed to an incrementalchange, because I didn't know
any better. So I truly wonderthat, if I'd started this job 15
years later, like right now,would I have ever done the
things that I did then, out ofnaivety, right? Like out of
passion. And so we did so wejust said, we're going to start
(03:06):
a brand new model. We want tocreate the school that we want
to send our kids to. And so wethought it needed an identity
bigger than just saying, hey,school is going to be better. So
we call it the School on FIRE,the Framework of Innovation for
Reinventing Education. Andreally it's kind of our back
symbol, right? Like it's ourbeacon call. And so we were the
first district in Kentucky to goone to 1k 12. We invented the Wi
(03:30):
Fi school bus. We want learningto be totally personalized, tech
integrated, you know? We alsowant to be the disney world of
education. We want to makeschool so much fun that kids
don't want to go home at the endof the day, and so that's been
the journey that we've been on.
Seen tremendous results.
Enrollment has doubled in thelast decade. Test scores have
gone from the eighth percentileto hovering around the 80s. We
(03:53):
started the first early collegehigh school program in Kentucky
that's on the college campus.
And so every kid at Eminence,regardless of a CT, has a chance
of earning 50 hours of collegefrom a prestigious Catholic
institution. And so we've had500 kids go through that
program, and 498 so have earneda degree or in college right
(04:13):
now. So crazy results from apopulation that's, you know, 70%
free and reduced lunch, 18%homeless, and the vast majority
first generation college. Soagain, I mean, I threw a lot at
you, but I mean, it's been a funride, right? So it's 15 years
feels like yesterday.
Sarah Williamson (04:30):
That is so impressive. You're making so
much progress, and you've alsobeen recognized as one of the
top 100 school superintendentsin the country, and you were
invited to the White House twiceto share your work, right? What
is this?
Dr. Buddy Berry (04:43):
By the way, it was at least one of the
Presidents you all would haveliked, right? Like, so it was
for two people. Everybody inAmerica had to have like one of
them. So, I mean,
Sarah Williamson (04:53):
That's funny.
What have you found to be themost rewarding aspects of
serving as a school districtsuperintendent? Sounds like
there's many things. But if youhad to narrow them down,
Dr. Buddy Berry (05:02):
I definitely have one thing that I didn't
even realize, like was inside ofme necessarily, like, you know,
upon reflection, you see it, Irealized that my drug is fixing
things that are broken. So Ihave a passion for finding
things that like a tinkerer,right? Like something's not
running as efficiently or as youknow, and I like problem
(05:25):
solving. I like fixing brokenstuff or making things better.
And so the thing about thesuperintendency that I think is
the reason why it's like I wasborn to do it, and I love it,
like I couldn't imagine anotherjob. And I miss teaching, but
it's a position where you haveenough authority to fix anything
you run into, right? Likethere's nothing that you can run
into that you don't have theability or the authority to
(05:49):
tackle. And so, you know, evenprincipals, which I think is the
hardest job on Earth, they'restill mid management in a way,
like, if they have a vision fortransforming their school, and
they don't have the support ofthe superintendent, they really
can't do it, right? So again, Ithink that's probably the thing
that has stood out the most forme.
Chad Bolser (06:05):
Well, you just referenced the principle and
that it's a tough job. And soone of our questions that we've
been asking throughout thisseries, a 2023 RAND study found
that superintendents have one ofthe most stressful jobs in
America. So we've been askingall of the superintendents who
join us their thoughts aboutthese findings. Do you feel like
(06:27):
this rings true for you? Howhave you been able to cope with
the stress that your role as asuperintendent brings?
Dr. Buddy Berry (06:33):
I definitely think it's probably one of the
most stress filled jobs that youcould ever find. You know,
there's worse things, right?
Like, I couldn't imagine adoctor where every day it's, you
know, you're holding somebody'slife in their hands, right? But
that's sort of how I view thisjob, right? Is that every
decision we make affects thelife of every kid that's in our
building, right? And so the verything that makes it so
(06:55):
attractive to me, like you havethe authority to fix things that
are broken also means thatbasically, everything that ever
is wrong is your fault. I meanfrom sidewalks, and again, I'm
in a small district, but likefrom just in the last 24 hours,
from a classroom not being warmenough, from a sidewalk not
being shoveled, from a teachermaking a bad decision and maybe
(07:15):
not doing the most positivestance to a kid that's being
disrupted, right? Like all ofthat ultimately, is your fault,
or at least it is on Facebookand so, you know, but it does
the same thing that gives youthe good of being able to fix
stuff is the very thing that youget blank for everything, kind
of, especially when you're fromthis town in this area and, you
know, in so, I don't know ifthat makes sense, but yes, I
(07:38):
think it's a highly stressfuljob.
Sarah Williamson (07:41):
How do you think that's changed over the
last few years? Has the scrutinyincreased? Do you think?
Dr. Buddy Berry (07:46):
No doubt, like, I mean, absolutely post COVID
even. I mean, I really think itstarted with the masking
mandates that led to some of thediscussions with DEI, which then
led to, you know, like thefuture of what school looks even
a virtual instruction, you know,when it's cold weather, which
then triggers a lot of peoplefrom the response to being at
(08:09):
home for six months duringCOVID. Hey, you know? And yes,
so we would go years with nobodyat a board meeting, right? And
so, but since 2020 I haven't hada board meeting without the
community there. Now I view itas a positive, because we're
very transparent, and so havingpeople there allows them to see
that authentic discussions aregoing on and things aren't just
(08:31):
being ramrod through, and theboard is being thoughtful in
their considerations. And so Ireally view the public
increasing their awareness andscrutiny, as you put it, like at
our meetings, and beinginvolved, for me as a guy that I
feel like is making the best.
Have I made mistakes? Yes, butI've never made one
intentionally, right like so Ithink that they see the
integrity behind the decisionsmore. So I think actually, the
(08:53):
increased scrutiny has actuallyled to an even better like
standing in the communitybecause of the transparency in
which we've operated, which forme, I mean, again, it's not fun
to have that scrutiny, but it'seasier to not have it right. But
I think the scrutiny has reallyallowed everybody to say, you
know, they're doing the bestthey can. That doesn't mean they
(09:13):
always agree with this, but theyalso know that it's not just a
rubber stamp decision, and thereis thoughtfulness going behind
them.
Chad Bolser (09:21):
How representative do you think your own
experiences are compared toother school administrators in
your area, in your state, andeven across the nation?
Dr. Buddy Berry (09:30):
You mean in terms of that scrutiny, or just
in terms of the general role of,
Chad Bolser (09:34):
Yeah, I think the general overall role,
Dr. Buddy Berry (09:37):
You know, I've had the privilege of doing a ton
of consulting work, and the jobis similar everywhere, right?
And again, that's true for bigdistricts. It's true for little
districts. Like there is thescrutiny, the level of you know,
being having the spotlight shineon you for every decision.
That's true everywhere, theheadaches, the like, it's still
(09:58):
a people centered business andpeople. Aren't perfect. And so
you know, you're dealing withthe same headaches. I think that
the headaches look differentlydepending on the size of the
district. So like here, ifsomebody's cussing you out, you
might have to sit with them atchurch, right? And so that, you
know, in a small community, youknow the names of the people
that are upset, right? And ifyou're at a large district, you
(10:20):
have a bigger scale of issues,but at the same time, you have a
bigger team. Those are also notalways names with faces, right?
Like it's just they're mad atme. You know, we're big in
basketball in Kentucky, and sothe last couple years with Coach
Cal, I feel like, you know, heis one of the biggest spotlights
in the world to be the headbasketball coach at UK, but you
know, he really didn't feel itbecause he didn't know the names
(10:43):
of the fans, like it was justthe fans, right? And so really,
I don't think it bothered him asbad, because it's not like being
in a high school coaching rolewhere you see the people that
are yelling at you and you knowexactly who they are, right? So
again, I think all of thatchanges the problems and what
you face, but at the same time,there are similar problems
everywhere.
Sarah Williamson (11:02):
Yeah. So I'm curious about beyond the
problems, how do you, this isreally proactively combating the
problems is thinking about howyou bring people together to see
your vision for the district, oreven working collaboratively to
build that vision together. Howdo you do that?
Dr. Buddy Berry (11:17):
I'll be honest.
That is, you can't. You know,we've been known for innovation
and really pushing the envelopeabout what the future of schools
are, but you can't do any ofthat without the right culture,
right and so it really comes tobuilding a team that is all
driving for the same goals. Andso we've done that. You know, it
looks differently at the schoollevel versus the community
level. At the school level, Ithink it's crucial to as you
(11:39):
have openings, is to hire theright people, right, like and so
we do dispositional hiring,right? We're looking at hiring
people that are flexible andcreative and they're passionate
and they love kids, right? Andso our interviews look very
differently than otherinterviews from other districts.
I honestly could care less abouttheir pedagogy. I can make them
a great teacher via training. Icannot make them flexible and
(12:02):
liking kids and believe that allkids can learn at high levels.
And so I need to find thatperson, and then I'll give them
the strategies that I need inorder to make them the best
version of themselves that theycan be, and then also selling
that vision of where you'regoing and where you're heading,
and making it so clear, I'venever had to fire a person ever
(12:23):
because of the fact that thevision was so clear. They either
saw that they could be a part ofthat vision, or they said, You
know what? You know, I like you.
We can shake hands and befriends, but this isn't the
vision for me. But then settingthat clear vision also allowed
people to say, I want to be apart of that, right? So now
there's this opening, well, I'veheard about what Eminence is
(12:44):
doing. I believe in that. And sothey come over. We call it polar
bears, and penguins, the polarbears kind of being the ones
that aren't as motivated, andthe penguins, you know, willing
to do whatever. And the onething that I've realized is is
penguins are friends withpenguins. And so if you hire
penguins. They will tell theirpenguin friends from wherever
they've come from. Hey, thisplace is awesome. They're pro
(13:06):
teacher. They believe in us,they believe in kids, and then
they find other penguins. And sowe've, you know, it didn't
happen overnight, but, I mean,we even like actually name and
claim polar bears and penguins.
And so when I was first here, wewere probably in the low 90
percentile polar bears. And nowI would argue we are about 6%
polar bears, right? And again,that may not sound, you know,
(13:27):
impressive, but I mean, thepolar bears are those culture
killers, right, like, and so yousay, Well, why do you have 6%
because there's a teachershortage. And so now, you know,
there is, right? And so, like,you might have to hire a couple
of polar bears and really try tosurround them with penguins, to
try to minimize the impact ofthe culture, but, you know, and
again, that's just a reality. Asfar as the community, it's for
(13:49):
me, I am a storyteller. So itis, and again, it's not stories,
it's testimonies, right? Like,I'm a huge believer in being
able to share the testimonies ofthe change lives, because that's
what we're out to do, right?
Like we're in it to set kids ona course for a future that they
could have only dreamed about.
And so I've got 100 testimonies.
(14:13):
If you were to schedule a fivehour call with me, I could stay
on the call for the whole fivehours telling you testimonies of
kids and the difference thatEminence schools made in their
lives, and that's somethingthat's irrefutable, right? Like,
that's not a test score. That'snot saying we didn't go, Okay,
we went down 10% in seventhgrade English proficiency this
(14:34):
year. Well, let me tell youabout 25 kids that this year did
blank, right? Let me tell youabout these kids like, right
this second, I've got a 25 yearold that was Aaron Rogers agent
out of a town of 1800 before hewas 25 years old. And again, he
used our model, our principles,to do that, and will give us
credit for that, of how to sellhimself, of how to be
(14:56):
professional, of how to thinkdifferently, of how to approach.
Colleges, and he would give us100% credit for shaping him into
being in a position to be at nowhe's 32 and he's the number one
NFL agent in America, and hecame from Eminence, town of 1800
right? And so that's one story.
I've got kids building bridgesin San Diego, first one to
graduate from Princeton, from anIvy League University. I've got
(15:19):
another kid, first generationcollege student, African
American female, and she's aNASA astrophysicist, right, that
went to MIT and has a doctoratefrom MIT, and that's, she's only
34 years old, I mean. And again,part of this model, one of our
early graduates, I mean, thoseare the things that you can't
refute, right, like, and again,we've got another kid that texts
(15:40):
me literally about every day,and he's 32 but he went
graduated high school, probablyan IQ of about a 45 He's held
two jobs, he works atMcDonald's, and he's a
dishwasher at a restaurant. He'sgot his own apartment, he's got
his own car. And again, I'm asproud of that young man as I am
the kid that is the NFL agent,right? Like and so it's, again,
(16:01):
it's giving them these lifeskills to be successful. I think
Eminence is strength is we'vechanged the metric of what
success looks like in our town.
So our town, when the testscores come out, I don't even
know if people read themanymore. And when I first got
hired here, when the test scorescame out, I would have 15 people
in my office for the next fivedays that were griping about
(16:23):
like third grade readingproficiency. And again, 20, 10,
11, was high stakesaccountability, as high as it
gets, but that was my week rightnow, the test scores come out. I
don't know if people read them,because the thing that they're
looking at, how many kids aregoing on to college? What is the
percentage of cleaning? How manyare getting a trade or a career
that they're earning, and thenhow are they being successful
(16:44):
post secondary completion,right? And so we've changed the
real metric of what it means tobe successful in the public
system.
Chad Bolser (16:52):
So what's interesting is the very next
question that we thought aboutis about storytelling, which
seems so inadequate for you inparticular as you tell story
after story. So I'm going toadjust that a little bit and
say, if you were going to like,what do you think those core
values or core metrics that youfocused on in your district that
(17:16):
allows for you to have all ofthose things where you can
literally change a community'sview of the educational system?
Dr. Buddy Berry (17:24):
The best thing that we've done. And again, it's
not what we did first, but it'swhat I would do first if I ever
had to start over, right? Likeif I went to a new district,
which I hope they'll give me mylast contract on Monday and I
can retire from Eminence. But ifthey don't and I have to start
over, I will say that we createda grad profile back in 2011
which was everything else right,like it was the, you know, we
(17:47):
still believe in, you have to beproficient in Math, English,
Science, inaudible. We careabout it. We teach it hard every
day. But like we think kids alsoneed to be able to work well
with others and show empathy andpersevere through tough times.
And, you know, have high SEL andso, like, how do you teach that,
along with English, Math,Science, inaudible. We had a
grad profile. We were one of thefirst 2% of adopters of a grad
(18:07):
profile in America. That'sgreat. After about a year, we
realized that, hold it, thisisn't enough. And so, you know,
I went in one of the polar bearclassrooms, and they said, Come
watch the lesson. You're goingto love it. And it was, she
said, this is world classcollaboration, right? And again,
she was coming from a goodplace, like I say, at polar
bear, but like she was lettingme into her room. She was taking
(18:30):
a risk, right? It was two kidsworking on the same worksheet,
and in her mind, this was thefirst time anybody had ever
collaborated in her classroom in25 years, right? And so for her,
it was like, she was proud,right? And so I didn't bash it,
I didn't but then I realized,like, I got a problem. And the
problem is we have to definewhat world class collaboration
looks like, because it looksdifferently for everybody,
(18:52):
right? Think about Disney. WhenDisney is animating a
caricature, right? There's 30artists that will be making that
same caricature, right? And sothen there is no artistic
freedom. You say, This is whatMickey Mouse looks like. And you
say, here's the parameters indrawing him. And so then that
way all 30 artists draw Mickeythe same way. Is it a creative
(19:13):
industry? Sure it is. You'reanimating for Disney. But even
in the most creative industry onEarth, you have guidelines and
parameters to make sure that theproduct is replicable
everywhere, right? And so whatwe did was we created the first
set of standards to go with thegrad profile in America. So we
said, in kindergarten, you'regoing to do these standards to
(19:34):
measure those outcomes. And sowe said, this is what world
class collaboration looks likefor a five year old. This is
what and again, was it perfect?
No, because nobody was doing it.
But after 15 years, it's gottenpretty good, and we've gotten it
to where, you know, with just afew standards, you can ensure
that high quality collaborationsoccurring. Perseverance, you
know, how do you give becausepeople gripe all the time.
(19:54):
Teachers want to gripe.
Educators want to gripe. Adultswant to gripe. Kids give up. Too
easy, right? Like there's no.
Grit to them. Okay, well, thenhow do you teach perseverance?
You give them the opportunity topersevere. So then you go and
you say, well, we're going tohave this hard project, and it's
going to, you know, and it makesit tougher, and you do it all
the way through. So like inkindergarten at Eminence, you
have to go and speak to 100people publicly at least three
(20:17):
times. And you're five yearsold, you're on a stage with a
microphone 100 people. You'redoing Photoshop, you're doing
AutoCAD, you're getting theseyou have hundreds of micro
credentials you're going to earnbefore fifth grade, right? And
some of them are for jobs thatwe don't even know exist, right?
And you say, well, Buddy, whyare you teaching Photoshop? I
believe it's a lifelong skill. Ibelieve my daughter, of all
(20:38):
things, the job, she's got apart time gig. She's a senior in
college. She wants to be a mathteacher, and she went and is now
a social media marketer. Andthat sounds fancy, she's making
Tiktok videos, and they'repaying her 10 grand a year to
work three hours a week to makeTiktok videos. I mean, again,
all because Eminence gave herthe skills to do video editing
(20:59):
when she went here, right? Andso, so again, and how to be
creative and how to sell it. Andshe got the easiest college side
gig on Earth, right? And sodon't tell her employers that.
But again, it, you know, it iswhat it is. And so we then
define levels of completion ofthose exemplars. So there's a
red level, white level, bluelevel. Red level, you have to
reach or you don't pass. So youcan have all A's in eighth grade
(21:22):
core subjects, but if you don'tpass the minimum competencies on
your exemplars or the standardsthat go with the grad profile,
you fail, you repeat eighthgrade, or you go back to summer
school, right? Like that's howserious we take those other
things. Now we would give youthe classes you need core wise,
but we would retain you in thegrade that you are in in order
(21:43):
to until you completed thoseexemplars. It's never happened.
A couple times we've had kids goto summer school. The other
thing that I will say is, isthat the white and blue level,
though, we've rewarded the fireout of those in terms of
extrinsic motivation, fieldtrips, hoodies, gear privileges,
where to sit in the cafeteria,and then we honor the fire out
(22:03):
of them in May, at the end ofthe year ceremonies, right? Like
huge deal. This is a true story.
And I know I'm a talker, so Iapologize I'm monopolizing the
conversation, but here's what Iwould say. The first time that I
knew that we had changed themetric of success, this is true
story. And again, another story,right? And so we were at home.
It was after honors night, thebig assembly school wide,
(22:24):
everybody's in the gym, and myprincipal calls me, and she
goes, Buddy, have you been onFacebook? And I said, you know,
I don't have a Facebook account.
I'm a superintendent. I waslike, I had over on Twitter,
right? And so I'm not onFacebook. And she said, Well,
you need to get log into yourwife's account, they are
blasting us online. And I said,What are you talking about? And
(22:45):
she said, well, a kid earned awhite like we gave them a white
level reward on the exemplars,and the mom is saying she's a
blue level reward, and she's gotall the evidence. She goes, the
teachers have messed up. Shegoes, the mom's right, but she
said, the mom is lighting us up,and now everybody's piling on,
talking about how awful and howand I said, that's the best
(23:06):
thing I've ever been told mylife. I said, you literally just
made my night. And she goes,What are you talking about? I
said, Angie, we've now made thecommunity care enough about
something that doesn't matteranywhere on Earth, and we've
made them mad enough that theycare enough about it, that
they're mad and they're blastingus on Facebook, which means the
exemplars now matter to thecommunity, right? Like, if a mom
(23:29):
cares enough about that reward,about that honor to mouth us,
then it means something to them.
And I said, we need to fix it.
We'll fix it tomorrow. We'll doa special like, I'm sorry I
said, but that's the best thingyou ever told me. And it was
when I realized it was aboutthree or four years into it, and
I was like, we're rolling likeand now they do. They care more
about the white and blue leveldistinction than they do the
(23:51):
test score that comes out in,you know, October from the year
before.
Sarah Williamson (23:56):
That's an incredible story. And I love
your perspective. It's sohealthy. And I love, I just love
that perspective so much. I'mcurious, what do you tell other
superintendents across thecountry when you're counseling
them on building community? Imean, obviously they may not go
into this detail within theirdistricts and build this type of
a program. What can they do?
What's your advice for them?
Dr. Buddy Berry (24:18):
You know, I think they've got to be
consistent and transparent. Ijust think, you know, you're not
going to win them overovernight. I think the other
thing, and you all mentionedthis increased scrutiny, I think
there's also increased distrust,right? I feel like that there is
a us versus them mentality alittle bit running across
America right now, or at leastKentucky and Indiana, and some
(24:40):
of the states that I'm in themost, right? And so I think you
have to be consistent, and thenyou also have to be transparent.
I think if I threw in a thirdword, it would be approachable,
right? I think being able to notsit in an ivory tower. And
again, that starts with yourteachers. I'm a big believer
your teachers live in thecommunity. They're the people
that are. Mostly talking toeverybody at the grocery. And so
(25:03):
if you can win your teachersover to your vision and your
thinking and what you're doing,they'll sell it for you. They'll
be your evangelist in thegrocery. And you know their
church or in their families, andso you know, but so many
superintendents don't view thestaff as that front line
evangelist, and again, have themtelling your stories, right?
(25:25):
Like, if you can't win themover, you're not going to win
the parents over. And so I viewit as I work for my staff,
right? Like I'll be the bosswhen I have to, but I'd really
approach my job from a servantleadership perspective, where I
basically have 150 bosses everyday, right? And so, and, you
know, I've had three calls todaywhere it was like, there's a
(25:45):
breaker out. Well, I mean,there's several maintenance guys
that can fix that breaker. Butyou know what I did? I didn't
call the maintenance guybecause, see, the teacher called
me. So I didn't say, hey, go fixthis. I ran over to the school
and I fixed it for him. And youdo things like that for them
enough, and it's like, this ishe's a real guy, and he cares
about us and it matters. And soI don't know if any of that kind
(26:05):
of resonates, but I think it'sjust you can't win everybody
over on one day. So it's aboutthat consistency and that
transparency and just being realto them that I think eventually
does win everybody over.
Sarah Williamson (26:17):
Yeah, I think you're right, and I love that
you said approachable, too.
That's one of the things we talkto our district clients about
being approachable, authenticand over communicating all those
things. Absolutely agree. Allright, so Dr Barry, one of the
reasons we wanted to host thispodcast series on humanizing the
superintendent is because we'rehelping to write a book called
On the State of theSuperintendency, and we just
(26:38):
continue to hear over and overabout how superintendents
constantly feel like they're nottreated like human beings. We
see that it's a problem. I'mcurious what you think about
that, if you agree, and thenalso, how do you think it could
benefit communities if they dostart to see their
superintendent as a human being?
Dr. Buddy Berry (26:56):
A truer statement has never been made,
right? Just last night, mydaughter and her roommate,
they're both seniors at theUniversity of Kentucky, and
they're both doing their studentteaching, and so her best friend
is like a daughter to me now,right? Like so love them both,
and the other young lady that'sthe best friend of my daughter,
they're in two differentdistricts, and so the
(27:17):
superintendent one day called anNTI day for extreme cold, and
then the next day was colder,and they said, We're going face
to face, you know? And theybrought them all in, right? Like
they and so the friend of mydaughter, and I'm going to get
to my point, but the friend ofmy daughter was just blasting
the superintendent, and said,You know, I can't stand this
(27:37):
guy. Like, what's he thinking?
This is so stupid, right? Andagain, what's crazy about it is,
she's never met him. She doesn'tknow him. And it's that, it even
she is dehumanizing, right? Andso my daughter was like,
honestly, you need to chill outlike they're saying the same
things about my dad. And she'slike, well, your dad's awesome.
And she's like, well, you know,my dad, right? Like, the reason
you're saying that, but shegoes, there are people that are
(27:59):
doing exactly to him today, whatyou're doing to this
superintendent. And it is, it'sthey dehumanize it. It's a
position, but it's not a person.
And for me, I'm from here, theyknow that, like, I am a person,
right? What's even crazier isthey will go, I've had people do
it where you're literally, theywill cuss you on Facebook, and
(28:19):
then you'll go to church withthem, and they'll be like, why
wasn't like, cussing you? AndI'm like, Who do you think makes
the decision to go and not haveschool? And then, by the way,
just so that you're aware of it,like when you did that, you
didn't mention me by name, butthe 50 people below you did
right, like you saw who theywere blaming. But again, and so
it is. There's nothing thatneeds to happen more than
(28:42):
viewing the superintendent as aperson.
Chad Bolser (28:45):
Well, I think throughout this series and
season, it gives us so much hopeand inspiration about our
educational leaders. And I knowSarah thinks the same thing.
We're fans of and want to begood in support of K 12
education and the educationalleaders. What advice would you
give us, the folks who are outthere rooting for you, community
(29:08):
members, parents, how can we bebetter in supporting our
leaders?
Dr. Buddy Berry (29:13):
It's a really good question. You know, I will
say I think that it starts froma real specific support to the
superintendent. So, like, it'salso, after 15 years, I don't
need somebody to say well done,but you never hear well done,
right? Like, it just doesn'thappen. I mean, for every 1000
complaints, you might get acompliment. I mean, you might
(29:36):
get one, right? And so I thinktaking the time to send that
letter to the Board of Educationwhen they make a tough call and
saying, Hey, we appreciate you,right? And again, I think that's
another thankless role as theboard members, right? They make
$75 a month right now. There aretwo types of board members.
There are those that are runningon an agenda, right? And I'm not
even saying their agenda isright or wrong, but they run on
(29:57):
an agenda, and there are othersthat just. Love kids, right? And
they just want to make adifference in their community.
I'm very fortunate to work withfive of those. And so when I
watch them take heat overdecisions that we're making, I'm
like, they make $75 a month,right? Like, what are we doing?
And so they never get acompliment, right? And so I do
think just being supportivemeans more than you would ever
(30:20):
know. I think the other part ofthat is, and again, I think I
appreciate it more than even acompliment, is when there's
misinformation online,specifically social media, I'm
so appreciative of parents thatare involved, and they will say,
Hey, that's not true. I've heardDr Berry say blank or that's not
true. I know for a fact,Eminence schools does this
(30:43):
right, and that's uncomfortable,because when you do that, you
could open yourself up to thetax yourself. But again, those
are the ones that mean the mostto me. Like that's even more
important to me, because thatmeans a we've done a good job
communicating what's going on,and somebody has heard it right,
and so and then them taking thecourage to dispel it to other
(31:03):
people, that, for me, is themost rewarding thing, even more
so than a compliment.
Chad Bolser (31:07):
So as we wrap this up, and this has been fantastic,
I literally could do and listento you all day long. It's
awesome, and we've had a greattime throughout this year. But
where can our listeners learnmore about you and connect with
you directly.
Dr. Buddy Berry (31:23):
Yeah, you can go to if you Google Buddy Berry
at Eminence, it's prettysynonymous at this point. But
the other thing is, I have awebsite at schoolonfire.org, and
so we do consulting work, and soyou can find out more about us
there and that links you to I,I'm embarrassed to even say the
title of it, but when I was 22years old, I thought I needed a
website, and so I boughtbuddyberry.com and so then when
(31:45):
I got and I hate that it's myname like I hate it, but I'm
also too cheap to buy anotherone. And so like all of my
doctoral research and how to dothis type work, is on there for
free. So That's buddyberry.comThose are the two easiest places
to get in touch.
Sarah Williamson (31:59):
Well, thank you so much. This has been an
amazing conversation. It's sonice to meet you, and I look
forward to staying in touch.
Dr. Buddy Berry (32:05):
That'd be awesome. It was good talking to
you all too.
Thank you so much. Yes, sir. Youall stay warm.
Chad Bolser (32:11):
Thanks for tuning into the Build Momentum for
Education Podcast. If youenjoyed listening today, we
would love to hear yourfeedback, and we'd be grateful
if you could leave us a review.
Sarah Williamson (32:22):
This helps us to share these powerful stories
with even more people. If youliked what you heard, we'd be
honored if you could share thisepisode with someone in your
network. We look forward toseeing you next time on Build
Momentum for Education.
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