June 11, 2024 • 37 mins
Join us in this episode of the Build Something Media Podcast as we sit down with Jack Allen, a Congressional candidate with a compelling background in finance and a fervent desire to change the political landscape. Jack opens up about his journey from a modest upbringing to becoming the president of a community bank, the personal tragedies that led him to retire, and the frustrations with the political status quo that inspired him to enter the political arena. His story is one of resilience, adaptability, and a commitment to proactive problem-solving.
Our conversation delves into the complexities of budget adjustments, the importance of intergenerational dialogue, and the need for long-term solutions over short-term fixes. Drawing from Jack’s decades of experience in accounting and banking, we explore the value of involving both younger and older generations in decision-making. Real-world examples, such as the historical inflation during the Carter administration, provide a lens through which we discuss current economic hardships. We then transition to the intricate topic of immigration, exploring the recent border shutdown announcement and its implications on the workforce and job availability.
The discussion doesn't stop there. We tackle the critical issue of healthcare reform, highlighting the pressing need for bipartisan cooperation. Jack and I share personal experiences with the healthcare system, discussing the impact of the Affordable Care Act and the specific challenges faced in Tennessee due to the failure to expand Medicare. Ending on a hopeful note, we underscore the necessity of open communication, collaboration, and unity in political and social campaigns. Join us for an episode filled with insightful conversations, real-world examples, and a shared vision for a better future.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So here's to the dreamers, the builders, the
fighters, the leaders, thepeople in the trenches.
Y'all are tired.
I promise I am too.
Your words have been more true.
Nice to be at all that time.
Welcome to the Build SomethingMedia Podcast.
Your host is Justin Bethune.
Welcome to the Build SomethingMedia Podcast.
My name is Chris and today I amjoined by Congressional
(00:22):
Candidate Jack Allen.
Hello, jack.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, thanks for letting me be here.
I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Thanks, man.
It was a couple of days ago.
I got a phone call, cold call.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Cold call I do 100 a day.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
That's right, and I just happened to pick it up.
It was kind of a random thing.
I said, oh, it's a local number.
It up congressional candidateon the phone and I have to say I
probably grilled you a littlebit you grilled me a lot and
then we became best friends.
That's right.
And then I invited you on thepodcast and and figured uh, you
know, take the opportunity toask some questions and help,
help people get to know who youare.
(00:54):
Yes, yeah, so, uh, let's, let'sjump into it.
Uh, obviously, um, you knowI've looked at your resume that
you have a background in finance.
Is that correct?
I was president of a bank yepand um, and so you've been
retired for a few years, a fewyears and three or four years um
, and so now don't have to dothis.
Like we were saying before youcame here, you don't have to do
this, but you've decided tothrow your hat into the
(01:16):
political arena.
Uh, you want to give us kind ofan overview of how that
decision came?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
let me make it as quick as I can because it's a
long story.
But I left banking and let metell you, I lived the Cinderella
life.
I really did.
I grew up 20 miles down theroad in a two bedroom house with
six of us and I was fortunateenough to go to Berry College
when I could work my way throughschool and I majored in
accounting.
(01:42):
I thought I was going to be anaccountant and I fell into the
banking business.
But along the way I was achicken catcher, I was a hay
hauler, I worked in the CarpMills of Dalton, I worked in the
chemical plants in Kensington,I was an automobile mechanic for
two years.
I've worked construction.
I can lay tile, I can hangsheetrock.
I've done it all along the wayand, fortunate enough, to wind
(02:03):
up being president of a greatcommunity bank in Athens,
Tennessee, Married a young ladyfrom Appleton, Tennessee, had a
great life and at some point theboard decided it was time to do
something different.
So we actually sold the bank andI retired.
Sadly, my wife had ovariancancer at the same time and she
(02:25):
passed away.
So I wake up one day andeverything I thought I was going
to do is gone my banking careerand my family.
I still have a daughter, butshe's raised, she's grown, she's
on her own.
And so I started doing thosethings.
I went back.
I worked construction for awhile because I like
construction.
I did a little bank consulting.
But every day I would wake upand I would look at Washington
(02:47):
and I would look at Congress andlisten, I'm like you.
I got up every day for 40 yearsand went to work and worked on
problems and they're not doingit.
They're just kind of doingdistractions let's impeach
somebody but the real problemsof the country are not being
addressed.
And I kept complaining about it.
(03:07):
And I complained and I talkedto my friends and this very
close friend of mine looked atme one day and they said you
know, you're talking a lot butyou're not doing anything about
it.
Why don't you do something?
Why don't you do something?
And then I said, well, whatshould I do?
And so I started talking tosome friends.
I said, well, what should I do?
And so I started talking tosome friends.
We determined that thiscongressional race was wide open
730,000 people in this districtand nobody's running other than
(03:33):
Mr Fleshman.
And so the more I looked at it,I thought, you know, this would
be a great time to step outthere and give a little
different perspective of what'sgoing on.
And in a democracy this is ademocracy it needs to have other
people should be involved.
It should be at least atwo-party race, or at least two
people in it, shouldn't it?
(03:54):
But anyway, did I tell you toomuch?
I'm okay now.
Oh, no, you're good, You'regood, I'm listening to what you
have to say.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Oh, no, there's a million different ways we could,
we could, we can branch off ofthere, you know, and, and so it
was there.
Was there a point, uh, at whichyou said, uh, or a point or a
policy or or an event orsomething, that kind of that,
where you said, okay, I have tokind of take this step now?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
You really want to know the truth?
Yeah, all right, I hate to eventell you, but I'm at the point
in my life I don't have a joband I'm not married and I'm
trying to figure out where to gowith my life.
And a friend of mine lives downin Florida.
A bunch of old guys down thereand he said why don't you come
down here?
You ought to move down here.
So I said, well, I'll go downthere and I'll look at some
(04:38):
houses.
And I went down to Florida and Italked to a lot of people and
sit around and there were somany people down there and I
hate to say it this way, butthey were, they were complaining
about things, but they reallyweren't doing anything about it.
And I said I, I don't think I'mthis guy, I don't think I can
go down there and play golfevery day.
So I came back to Chattanoogaand uh, and it was at that point
(05:01):
I thought what could I do tomake the country a better place
At my point in my life?
And I told you I don't need ajob, but I worry about you, I
worry about grandchildren If wedon't take control of the
situation.
People, I mean.
(05:21):
Listen, it's been almost 30years since anybody's really
done anything productive.
In 2001, we balanced the budget.
Hadn't happened since.
I mean $34 trillion in debt andnobody talks about it.
Does that not bother you?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Oh, it definitely bothers me.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It bothers me every day.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
The question is I guess you know what is it now
30% of the total GDP that wehave to spend like deficits?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
spending every year yes, yes and that's insanity.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
How is that sustainable?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
long term it's not.
I mean, we are close to whereit's not.
And you know, I majored inaccounting and so I'm a numbers
guy and that's really how thisgot started was because I kept
looking at it and saying thisisn't going to work.
But do you ever hear me upthere talking about it?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I know it's political taboo to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
It's political taboo.
So you need somebody like mewho has I mean, if I don't get
reelected, because I tell thetruth, well, there it is, and
that's another thing is one ofthe reasons these guys don't do
what, and I'm going to defendthem just a little bit.
You know congressional twoyears, so as soon as you get
elected or reelected, you'rerunning again, yep.
(06:33):
So what are you going to do?
You're going to not do anythingcontroversial.
You don't want to do anything.
That's going to make people madand you're going to try to
raise money, and that's what youdo.
And so that's why Congress doesthings like you know, like last
year, I think, almost half oftheir legislation was naming
post offices.
I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I know, I believe you .
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And, like I said, I'm kind of halfway defending them,
because they're sitting theresaying well, if I tackle this
debt or if I tackle gun safety,or if I tackle border,
somebody's not going to like it,like it right, and it might
cost me my job and it's, it's,you know well, and now what
we're seeing, with um kind ofrunaway inflation, right when
(07:15):
what people don't realize is,when you start spending more
than you can afford, um the andyou have to print money, you
have to double, double thequantity of money in the money
supply.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
You're essentially adding a tax on the dollar after
the fact Exactly.
Who was it?
Milton Friedman.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Too many dollars chasing too few goods and
services.
Right Economy 101.
That's it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And so, yeah, I think that we're kind of at a point
where we're going to have toreckon with that in a real way,
and doing that takes courage.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
And that's why I'm doing this and listen if I don't
get elected, but I make peoplethink I would have done my job.
We need to know we've got tomake tough calls here and it's
not going to feel good, it'sgoing to be painful.
We're going to have to adjusttaxes.
Don't ever say raise no, butseriously, we're going to have
(08:12):
to adjust the tax.
But before we do that, we'regoing to have to curtail
spending, because if you'regoing to tell people they might
have to pay a little bit moretaxes, you're going to have to
look them in the eye and say butyou know what?
Every dollar that we're using,we're using.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Tell them why.
You know, newt Gingrich,there's going to have to be
value behind those dollars.
Newt Gingrich, bill.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Clinton.
Those guys didn't even likeeach other, but they got in a
room together.
They figured it out.
That's what's going to happen.
We got to find people who arebold enough to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Well, I think an even better example and I don't know
if Justin would like thisexample very much, but it's
Jimmy Carter.
I think Jimmy Carter made somecourageous decisions that kind
of saved the American economythat he doesn't get any credit
for, no, but they were necessaryand they were bold and they
ultimately saved a lot of people, a lot of grief in the long
term.
Now I think I disagree with thetaxation part.
(09:03):
In terms of raising taxes, Idon't necessarily, I didn't say
raise.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
You didn't say raise.
I did not say raise taxes, Isaid slight adjustments,
semantics.
Well, you don't adjust untilyou work.
You've got to work this sidefirst.
You've got to work this sidefirst and then, when you work
this side and you've done allyou can, then you might listen
so.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
so then let's look at the.
I guess the next question iswhere did those adjustments get
made on on the front end?
Where are the column cuts oradjustments or whatever?
But ultimately there are thingsthat get money that you have to
take money away from, and sowhat does that look like?
Where would you start trying tostart those conversations?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, you know it's, it's now you're asking me the
hard questions.
Yeah, so I got to.
I got to get my head into it,but I'm going to.
But I'm an accountant, right,that's what I did for a living.
I balanced budgets for 40 yearsand so I got it.
You know, do I know the answersnow?
No, but would I know them?
Yeah, I mean, but I got to getmy head into it.
(10:07):
I mean, for instance, we keeptalking about Social Security.
We talk about does anybody wantto talk about that?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
No, I do.
You do, I do because yeah, I do, but I'm a very strange person
sometimes.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
But you know and listen, we have a lot of smart
people in this country that wegot to get their head into it
and help us.
You know, my job is really andI told you in the beginning I
said I majored in accounting, Iwas a banker, but I'm a
salesperson.
That's really what I am.
So you're going to have thesmartest people and this is what
I did in my banking history.
(10:42):
I surrounded myself with thesmartest people I could find and
I let them figure out how weneeded to do it, and then I sold
it.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Now, so I guess my next question is a little bit of
an oddball.
Okay, a lot of politicians saythat that's true.
A lot of politicians say thatThey'll surround themselves with
the smartest people.
I guess what defines a smartperson?
Well, you know I know that's areal difficult question.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
No, no, no.
Let me give you an example.
I met this morning, had coffeewith an attorney, and he looked
me in the eye and he said andwhen I go and I tell people all
the time this is my, this is mycampaign, first off, you've got
to be there, you've got to showup.
I go to the folks, you have tolisten and you have to be
(11:32):
respectful.
Now I sat down with an attorneythis morning who I cold called,
just like you, and he didn'tlike everything I had to say and
I said, well, hey, let's have acup of coffee.
And we spent an hour and a halftoday and he gave me four or
five things that he said are youthinking about these things?
I said well, I'm kind ofthinking about it.
He said you need to think moreof them because he's a
30-something.
These are the things thatmatter to him.
(11:53):
It's guys like him that I wouldpull into our group.
I've got three people workingfor me now that none of them are
30 years old.
The way they see the world is alot different than the way I
see it, but I have to listen tothem because this is their world
now.
It's not mine, you know.
(12:15):
I would have.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Well, let me back up.
I'm going to disagree with that.
Okay, I have a teenager.
Okay, and I love him, and he'sa brilliant person for a
teenager, right?
Okay, somebody under 30, I knowwhat it's like to be under 30.
Right, I was not as capable oras knowledgeable as I am now at
38.
And that's just a matter offact.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And I did grow up with technology and so I do have
there.
There was a transition pointthat I think that that maybe you
missed as as as part of yourgeneration, but the the
transition point like when I,since I was a kid, I've been in
this, so it's, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna disagree because Iunderstand a lot of the
consequences of the decisions oftechnology.
(12:59):
Use better than a 20 somethingwould at any day of the week and
I would argue that with anyoneand probably do it successfully.
So I think that removing othervoices like yours, people from
your generation, who are?
still very much voters and whostill very much have opinions
(13:20):
and who still very much don'tnecessarily respect or agree
with the opinions of a20-something.
That I think that'sdisrespectful, almost.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Well, and look, we're not removing them.
I'm just saying we're listeningto them, but you still got to
have granddad out there who'slived through it.
And let me give you an example.
Sure, this inflation thing ishorrible.
It's horrible.
(13:50):
But you know what?
I had a house one time at 18%.
Remember, you're not old enoughto remember the crazy interest
rates I was with Carter.
Yeah, yeah, I had a house at18% it took me almost 10, and we
had inflation through the roof.
I mean, this inflation wasnothing like what we had.
It took me 10 years to recoverfrom that, to finally get myself
back on.
(14:10):
We're in a similar situation now, but what young people need is
people who've lived through itbefore, and the reason you know,
I grew up listening to theWorld War II generation and
those folks and all thehardships.
You know we're in a hardshiptime now and so you need some
people with some maturity to saylook, but we've got to stay
(14:32):
focused and we've got to fix itone piece at a time, and that's
everything I look at is along-term fix, it's not a
short-term fix.
And I think the problem we havenow is I call it the microwave
world.
You want to fix the border?
Hey, build a wall.
You want to fix guns?
Take them all away.
I mean, none of it's a quickfix, it's a 10-year fix, but
(14:54):
it's not going to be fixedunless you recognize it, you
talk about it and you worktogether to fix it.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay, so you've mentioned the border a couple of
times.
Let's talk about, kind of yourposition on that.
You know, and it's just acomplex situation.
There's a lot happening andmoving pieces and you have the
issues with folks coming fromSouth America, from Mexico, from
Central America.
Now there's a growing concernthat there's a lot of immigrants
who are coming from China aswell.
(15:24):
What are your thoughts on that?
Well, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I was sitting in the car.
I was almost late because I waslistening to the president.
He just announced that he'sshutting the border down after
all this time.
But here's the thing we're allimmigrants, every one of us,
everybody's sitting here.
We're all immigrants, every oneof us, everybody sitting here.
We're all immigrants.
Our birth rate in this countryis 1.6%.
We're not replacing ourselves.
We need probably at least acouple million people to come
(15:50):
into this a year in this countryto keep the lights on.
I mean, it's important that weget people in this country.
It's important that we getpeople in this country.
The problem is is in the last 30years, it's become political
and nobody has addressed animmigration system that works.
And so I'm hoping you knowPresident Biden was bold enough
(16:13):
to you know he's slowing it down.
You've got to slow it down.
You know, I had a guy who ownsa construction company.
He came to me and he said wouldyou do me a favor?
I said what he said go down tothe border, sort people out,
give them a Social Security cardand a work visa and tell them
(16:34):
come back in five years and youcould be a citizen.
He said I can't find people towork, and so it's a double-edged
sword.
You know you like to say, oh,immigration's bad and all these
people flooding across theborder, but didn't this
construction guy over here?
He can't find people to work.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I'd ask him what his pay rate is.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
No, he's no.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
No, no, I mean, that's an honest question.
What are you paying people?
And is the reason that you'rehiring the folks who are coming
over the border because you canpay them a lot less?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I think he's hiring them because it's the only
people In fact.
I had a roof put on my house.
I knew the contractor andeverybody that was working on my
roof you could tell wasn't bornhere and I looked at him and I
said what's the story?
And he said these are the bestworkers I've ever found.
(17:23):
And I went out and talked tothem, fed them some lunch.
You know they were as happy asthey could be, but they're happy
to work.
You know, and this is, let mesay this, and this is go ahead.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Well, my next question would be if we have
laws, should we enforce them?
Then yes, okay, so if someoneenters the country illegally,
that's what's happening, rightnow, that's my question.
If they're already hereillegally as well, what happens
then?
I'm not suggesting any sort offix.
I'm just asking you becauseyou're running for Congress,
(17:57):
don't you expect a?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
fix.
Nobody had one in 30 years, butI should have it.
No, no, no, hang on.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
There was one under President Obama.
President Obama did have thein-place I don't remember
exactly what it's called inMexico, where people stayed in
Mexico while they were seekingtheir visa.
All right, and that worked, andthe number of people crossing
over the border was significant,like 30x less, but do you know
why?
Why?
(18:22):
Because it was more difficultto get into the country.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
No, I'll tell you exactly why.
And go back and look at thenumbers.
You got Obama and Biden right.
Sure, lowest number ofcrossings.
Now you got Biden biggestnumber of crossings Same guy.
What's going on If you go backto the Obama years, do you
remember the big, big, bigdepression we went through for
(18:47):
five years In 08.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, you remember that, yes.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
No jobs, they're not coming.
Guess what's happening now?
Jobs everywhere.
So it has nothing to do with it, it's all supply and demand.
Everything is supply and demand.
It has nothing to do with it,it's all supply and demand.
Everything is supply and demand.
There is demand and if there'sdemand, they're coming.
And I mean you just look at thenumbers.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Well, I mean, at that point in time, there was also
border enforcement.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
But if there had been jobs, they'd have flooded over
it.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
But also there was border enforcement, and that
hasn't been happening until now.
I'm not giving the presidenthis—I'm not anti-Joe Biden.
I'm not anti—I'm as independentas anybody can be.
I'm just telling you, if thereare jobs and I'm over here
saying get over here, we got youa job people are coming, and so
my question I guess next wouldbe if you have American citizens
(19:37):
who are saying, hey, now I getpaid less because we're letting
those folks come in, what do yousay to those people?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Well, I hadn't even said it to me.
I mean, there are jobs outthere.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
If you talk to blue-collar workers, I bet you
could get a few.
Yeah, what do you think, justin, as a person who employs
blue-collar workers?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Do you all really want my opinion on this?
Yeah, tell us what you think.
No, listen the person whoemploys blue collar workers.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Do y'all really want my opinion on this?
Okay, tell us what you think.
No, listen, this is a 30-yearproblem.
Yeah, I don't know the answer,but I do listen and I want an
answer.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I think a lot, a lot of, and a lot of people don't
want to address it or hear it is, uh, lack of work ethic in
american society.
It really is, because I'm acontractor and I have several
crews and my roofing crews thatI sub out to are all Hispanic.
You are not going to find verymany crews of American born
(20:36):
roofers and those guys make moremoney than my guys that make
$25 an hour because they getpaid by the job.
They want to get paid by thejob and they get it done.
They will roof this house.
They did.
They roofed this house in a day.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Well, I'm so glad, I'm just playing the contrarian.
No, I'm so glad you told thatstory because I was going to
tell it but I didn't.
But when they roofed my house,let me tell you.
They showed up at 6 o'clock inthe morning.
They ate lunch on the roof.
Exactly, they ate lunch on theroof.
One of the guys had a bad cuton his hand from cutting things
(21:13):
and I looked at him and I saidwe need to get you to the
hospital to get some stitches.
You know what he did?
He put duct tape on his handand his supervisor said he's not
leaving because he's not goingto lose an hour's work.
And at 6 o'clock in the eveningthey were done.
Now, thank you for saying that,because there is a work ethic.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Oh, there's no doubt.
There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, because when you go back to talking about you
know, Chris, you were sayinglike how much are you paying?
It doesn't matter, You'repaying people hourly Just.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
You were saying like, how much are you paying, it
doesn't matter, Um, you'repaying people hourly just
because, you're paying morehourly, it doesn't mean they're
going to get more done in thathour, but you're more likely but
you are more likely to findsomeone who, if you're paying a
higher wage, you are more likelyto find someone who will do
that work at that higher levelfor that.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
But in construction, nine times out of 10, you're
going to get the best labor bypaying by the job and letting
those guys run themselvesindependently.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
And.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I've I've had more success with Hispanic crews than
I have with American.
Quote unquote.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they understand and and and
understand that I'm saying I'mnot saying I'm not disagreeing
with any of that.
I'm not disagreeing with any ofthat.
Um, I'm looking at it throughthe political periscope, which
is 10,000 miles high.
Yeah 10,000 feet high, and sowhen you're looking at it that
(22:31):
way, it's very different thanwhen you hear this story here.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Right.
But also you hear the storyabout your guy who, when you had
to hire a second crew, who'sworried that he's going to lose
his job because maybe he's notas fast as the other guy.
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah andthat's, and so you try to take
care of everybody so he needs topick up the pace yeah
Speaker 3 (22:54):
that's right that's the idea, but then my taxes on
everything are so high I've gotto go with the shooting.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I'm just kidding let me tell you what I think the the
biggest challenge we have as acountry is sure, let's hear it
and I talk to people all thetime you think about this.
Everybody, or not everybody,almost everybody, including my
ancestors, your ancestors, weall came here for a better life
(23:21):
and we all knew that we're goingto have to work for it.
Yes, I don't care whether it'smy crowd from your crowd, the
guys coming across the board,the Chinese that built a
railroad 100% Everybody.
Now, what is the genetic makeupof somebody who will cross the
ocean to come work?
(23:42):
Not everybody does it, so we'rea pretty aggressive bunch of
folks.
I mean, you look at us and thenyou look at Europe.
They're over there drinking.
Well, I shouldn't say that, butit's a different lifestyle.
It is Not here.
Look at it.
You guys probably got you'reprobably going to work until 8
o'clock tonight.
I mean you guys going to dothis.
Oh, I wish you guys going to dothat?
Oh, I wish no no, no no, I mean, it's like.
It's like me.
(24:02):
I'm at the point in my lifewhere I ought to be out on the
golf course.
I don't want to play golf, Iwant to keep going.
It's our genetic makeup, so sothat's the beauty of it, but the
problem is is herding everybodytogether.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yes, that's the issue .
Oh for sure.
I mean, when you, when youstart, um, when cultures
converge, especially in mass,then you tend to end up with
some turbulence as a result ofit.
And don't take this as me beinganti-immigration I am not.
Some of the hardest workingpeople I know in the world are
immigrants and they deserveeverything that they have.
(24:36):
No doubt I just have to playthe devil's advocate because
that's who I am.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I was speaking to a group of people who are US
citizens, but they allimmigrated.
I was chatting with them and Isaid here's the deal, guys I can
go to China, but I can never beChinese.
I can go to Japan, but I cannever be Japanese.
But I can come to America and Ican be un-American.
And those folks out theresmiled.
I said you are Americans, that.
(25:01):
And those folks out there smile.
I said you are Americans,that's the most important thing
you are.
That's your first label.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Now, what does it mean to be American?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Well, it means you get up and you go to work every
day and you pay your taxes andyou obey the laws and you have
the right, just like I did.
See now, I worked two jobs for13 years when I was younger.
I've worked two jobs for 13years.
You have the right to make it.
You have that opportunity tomake it.
(25:31):
And you talk about thoseChinese guys, all these people
crossing the border.
I was listening to a podcast andthey tracked a Chinese guy down
and his daughter who crossedthe border, and they tracked him
down.
He was in San Francisco and Isaid okay, tell us the story.
He said my family owns someapartments in China.
(25:53):
He said we were prettywell-to-do people and he said
one day the government came inand they said we need this land
because we're going to build afactory.
And he says well, what do weget out of?
It?
Said nothing, you're gone.
And he said we were well enoughoff that we had passports.
He said my daughter and I tookour passports and we flew to
central america and we paid tocome up.
(26:17):
That horrible trip to comeacross the border went to San
Francisco and he's deliveringpackages in San Francisco,
living in a small littlewhatever.
But he said I would rather bein this country delivering
packages, knowing that if Ideliver enough packages I can
(26:39):
keep it back in China where Imay work myself my entire life,
and the government come along,take it away from me.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Hey, justin, I think Jack may have just made the
argument for your Airbnb thingthat we were talking about
earlier.
Um, where so?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
that it could be worse.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yes, that it, that it could be worse than that, that
there is a slippery slope thatyou kind of that, you always
kind of ride when you you startdealing with any form of
government.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
But yeah, no, we won't go into that.
But we're sitting here talkingabout immigrants.
We're all immigrants, we're allimmigrants, sort of Sort of
Sort of Most of me.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I understand that argument from at least the level
of a story.
Everybody has an origin, sure,and they're not.
All the same, I think there isa security piece that we run
into when you don't have thenecessary checks in place.
Well, that's why we have thesystems in place, and I'm not
disagreeing that maybe thesystems should be expedited or
(27:44):
maybe we should give moreresources to those systems, but
I'm saying that they're in placeto protect the people already
here from potential threats.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
We're in total agreement on that.
I mean, that's 30 years ofneglect, really.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Right, yeah, because you know, like I said, for every
10 people that there are thatare really great human beings
coming across that that border.
Maybe there's one that's bad,but if you have 10 million, you
know that's a lot of people whoare bad.
You know what I'm saying.
Small number times a big numberis a big number.
That's right, that's right, andso it's.
It's again, it's.
How do you, how do younecessarily measure the between
(28:18):
the compassionate, the, betweenthe the compassionate part,
which is important, and the andthe security part, which is
equally?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
important.
That's what I hope is happeningtoday.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Right, yes, me too.
Before you go, let's go into afive minutes.
Justin said he had five minutesto talk about healthcare before
he has to leave and he does.
He does switch.
We'll have to do this againsometime before before, before,
before you get back to uh,before the election uh is over,
um, but um, let's talk abouthealthcare.
(28:46):
Uh, just kind of an overview ofwhere you stand, what you're
trying to accomplish, and no, wetalked about, uh, the financial
portion of it and and the uhnational debt.
Um, healthcare, you know,adding things to that would make
that difficult.
Um, healthcare, adding thingsto that would make that
difficult.
Taking things away from thatwould be difficult in the
current state.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And so that's a really big can of worms there
that we have to look at.
It is, and I don't even knowwhere to start.
I spent six years on thehospital board of a small
hospital, so I understand thechallenges in a hospital.
I spent four and a half yearsas a caregiver for my wife who
had cancer.
I understand the challenges ofa patient.
(29:27):
The system does not work reallywell.
That's why we have two doctorswho are on our campaign that are
working on healthcare issues.
Healthcare reform I mean nobodywants to talk about it and I'm
sure not going to talk about it.
But long term there probablyhas to be some sort of a
national safety net, like everyother country, every other
(29:52):
civilized country in the world.
But, like I said, our situationis we're so far gone now with
the system that we've got.
It's got to be fine-tuned.
I don't know the answers.
I know that the president hastried to limit prices on certain
drugs.
I don't know if I told you, butI'm the caregiver for my
(30:13):
mother-in-law.
My wife was an only child.
The reason I'm in Chattanoogais because I'm taking care of my
mother-in-law.
I've been keeping up with her,or taking care of her for 10
years.
I got a call yesterday about anew drug that she might need.
Now she's 91 years old and theco-pay was $350.
And I said I need to know moreabout this drug Now.
They hadn't called me back yet.
(30:34):
But I don't understand it.
Healthcare is a problem and theanswers?
Speaker 1 (30:42):
I got a book for you.
I think you might like that,particularly with the current
policy that we we have in placewith um, the affordable care act
, how it was kind of built andstructured and the legislation
itself was formed.
Um, it was written by one ofthe I think it was a was
Washington Post columnist whowas there in all of the
committee meetings and all thatstuff as the legislation was
(31:02):
formed and kind of walks throughhow much influence all these
independent pieces had onstructuring that legislation.
So it's kind of a Frankenstein,oh yeah, in terms of how it
works, because it didn'tactually do anything to help
people like you when you'redealing with your wife.
I'm sure you had to deal withthe insurances and be on phone
calls with people trying to getthings paid for.
(31:22):
Well, it did.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
It did because she couldn't be canceled, right.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I mean that was big.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I mean, I probably wouldn't be sitting here today
had I been canceled.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, I mean, I was that's big.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, no, she was in a an individual plan like that,
so that was huge.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Oh no, I'm not saying that the Affordable Care Act
was entirely bad.
I'm saying that the way that itwas piecemealed made it
functionally and structurallydifficult to navigate.
And that was by design, becauseif they were getting the
individual mandate they would— Iimagine the, not imagine if you
read the read the legislationthe insurance companies made it
difficult.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
To make the claims, yeah, and so, as a result, they
have fewer claims, and so itkind of made up some of them.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
It's clever is what it is.
Listen, I understand it all.
I mean, like I said, Iunderstand from both sides.
Yeah, back to healthcare,though, and this is something
that the state should do.
We're only one of 10 statesthat did not expand Medicare.
Now, listen, we've had either16 or 17 hospitals close in
(32:33):
Tennessee.
We're the largest or the secondlargest, and this district that
I'm in goes all the way almostto Kentucky.
A lot of it is rural, and wehave healthcare deserts up there
, because the healthcare is theER or the amulets or they're 45
minutes from a trauma center,and so if we had done anything
(32:59):
right, it would have been thatthe state of Tennessee and
everybody's looking at oh Jack,that's a liberal thing.
Well, it may be, but we're onlyone of 10 states that didn't do
it, and we got closed hospitalsright and left and communities
that don't have health care.
I think we made a mistake there.
It's not too late to correct,but that's not national, that's
a state issue.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And the problem this is theproblem that I have mostly with
and, and that the state, I don'tknow what the, the strings that
were attached to the money are,um, but I can almost guarantee
you there were strings that wereattached to her um, and
unfortunately, there ispolitical posturing that occurs
on both sides of the aisle and,um, you know, just like for a
while I believe it wascalifornia that banned certain,
(33:38):
uh, certain things from otherstates that they disagreed with
too, and so I mean, there's alot of silliness like that that
happens, um, when you startgetting uh politics involved.
And is it wrong?
Yeah, it's wrong, um, itdoesn't matter who's doing it,
uh, so it's.
We're going to end real quickhere.
In the last few minutes We'lltalk about, uh, partisanship, uh
kind of the divide.
(33:59):
There's a large number ofpeople in the country who are
concerned about civil war.
I mean, who thought that in2024 we'd be sitting here
talking about this?
But you're talking.
40-something percent of peoplein the country think that that's
a real possibility, and there'sa desperate need for healing
that divide and trying to buildtrust with the government again.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I'm that guy.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Tell us how that's going to happen?
Speaker 2 (34:23):
No, I hear you Listen .
I spent my life pulling peopletogether.
When you run a community bank,you run a community.
Now I was in a community thatwas probably 70% Republican.
I live on the D side.
These were all my friends.
We all worked together.
(34:44):
Listen, somebody asked me.
They said if you went toWashington, would you cross the
aisle?
I said I would live on theother side of the aisle.
My goal would be best friendswith everybody, because that's
how it starts, and we lost that.
We lost that, those friendships.
Somebody talked to me the otherday and they said the more I
talk to you, the more you seemlike an old line Republican.
(35:07):
Seriously, you know who?
One of my models is HowardBaker.
I went to Huntsville last weekto pay homage to Howard.
It's in our district and I wentthere last week and I talked to
people in Huntsville and wetalked about Howard.
You know Howard Baker would saythe other guy might be right.
That was his famous thing andyou may have listened to the
(35:28):
podcast that they do, but buthis deal was always listen to
other people because they mightjust be right.
We need more Howard Bakers.
We need more Jack Allens,because I'm not going to listen,
you're not going to make me mad.
You're not going to hurt myfeelings.
You're going to tell me what.
The guy I had breakfast withthis morning.
He started telling me aboutthings.
I said you know, tell me whatyou think.
(35:49):
You're not going to hurt myfeelings.
I need to know, and so I thinkthe most most important thing we
can do is circle the wagons andquit Just quit fighting.
In our campaign, you cannot usethe word fight.
You know how all these peoplesay I'll fight for you, I'll
(36:15):
fight for you.
That's been outlawed.
You can't use it.
You can say we will work withyou, we will work together, we
will work as a team, but we'renot fighting.
The time for fighting is over.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Jack Allen.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Thank you for joining us on the Build Something Media
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Let's build something .
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yes, sir, this has been a nice conversation.
We should do it again here in alittle bit, after you've talked
to another 18,000 people.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Thank, you, Chris.
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Bye.
Well, I thought that went well,thank you.
So here's to the dreamers, the builders, the
fighters, the leaders, thepeople in the trenches.
Y'all are tired.
I promise I am too.
Your words have been more true.
Nice to be at all that time.
Welcome to the Build SomethingMedia Podcast.
Your host is Justin Bethune.
Welcome to the Build SomethingMedia Podcast.
My name is Chris and today I amjoined by Congressional
(00:22):
Candidate Jack Allen.
Hello, jack.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, thanks for letting me be here.
I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Thanks, man.
It was a couple of days ago.
I got a phone call, cold call.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Cold call I do 100 a day.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
That's right, and I just happened to pick it up.
It was kind of a random thing.
I said, oh, it's a local number.
It up congressional candidateon the phone and I have to say I
probably grilled you a littlebit you grilled me a lot and
then we became best friends.
That's right.
And then I invited you on thepodcast and and figured uh, you
know, take the opportunity toask some questions and help,
help people get to know who youare.
(00:54):
Yes, yeah, so, uh, let's, let'sjump into it.
Uh, obviously, um, you knowI've looked at your resume that
you have a background in finance.
Is that correct?
I was president of a bank yepand um, and so you've been
retired for a few years, a fewyears and three or four years um
, and so now don't have to dothis.
Like we were saying before youcame here, you don't have to do
this, but you've decided tothrow your hat into the
(01:16):
political arena.
Uh, you want to give us kind ofan overview of how that
decision came?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
let me make it as quick as I can because it's a
long story.
But I left banking and let metell you, I lived the Cinderella
life.
I really did.
I grew up 20 miles down theroad in a two bedroom house with
six of us and I was fortunateenough to go to Berry College
when I could work my way throughschool and I majored in
accounting.
(01:42):
I thought I was going to be anaccountant and I fell into the
banking business.
But along the way I was achicken catcher, I was a hay
hauler, I worked in the CarpMills of Dalton, I worked in the
chemical plants in Kensington,I was an automobile mechanic for
two years.
I've worked construction.
I can lay tile, I can hangsheetrock.
I've done it all along the wayand, fortunate enough, to wind
(02:03):
up being president of a greatcommunity bank in Athens,
Tennessee, Married a young ladyfrom Appleton, Tennessee, had a
great life and at some point theboard decided it was time to do
something different.
So we actually sold the bank andI retired.
Sadly, my wife had ovariancancer at the same time and she
(02:25):
passed away.
So I wake up one day andeverything I thought I was going
to do is gone my banking careerand my family.
I still have a daughter, butshe's raised, she's grown, she's
on her own.
And so I started doing thosethings.
I went back.
I worked construction for awhile because I like
construction.
I did a little bank consulting.
But every day I would wake upand I would look at Washington
(02:47):
and I would look at Congress andlisten, I'm like you.
I got up every day for 40 yearsand went to work and worked on
problems and they're not doingit.
They're just kind of doingdistractions let's impeach
somebody but the real problemsof the country are not being
addressed.
And I kept complaining about it.
(03:07):
And I complained and I talkedto my friends and this very
close friend of mine looked atme one day and they said you
know, you're talking a lot butyou're not doing anything about
it.
Why don't you do something?
Why don't you do something?
And then I said, well, whatshould I do?
And so I started talking tosome friends.
I said, well, what should I do?
And so I started talking tosome friends.
We determined that thiscongressional race was wide open
730,000 people in this districtand nobody's running other than
(03:33):
Mr Fleshman.
And so the more I looked at it,I thought, you know, this would
be a great time to step outthere and give a little
different perspective of what'sgoing on.
And in a democracy this is ademocracy it needs to have other
people should be involved.
It should be at least atwo-party race, or at least two
people in it, shouldn't it?
(03:54):
But anyway, did I tell you toomuch?
I'm okay now.
Oh, no, you're good, You'regood, I'm listening to what you
have to say.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Oh, no, there's a million different ways we could,
we could, we can branch off ofthere, you know, and, and so it
was there.
Was there a point, uh, at whichyou said, uh, or a point or a
policy or or an event orsomething, that kind of that,
where you said, okay, I have tokind of take this step now?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
You really want to know the truth?
Yeah, all right, I hate to eventell you, but I'm at the point
in my life I don't have a joband I'm not married and I'm
trying to figure out where to gowith my life.
And a friend of mine lives downin Florida.
A bunch of old guys down thereand he said why don't you come
down here?
You ought to move down here.
So I said, well, I'll go downthere and I'll look at some
(04:38):
houses.
And I went down to Florida and Italked to a lot of people and
sit around and there were somany people down there and I
hate to say it this way, butthey were, they were complaining
about things, but they reallyweren't doing anything about it.
And I said I, I don't think I'mthis guy, I don't think I can
go down there and play golfevery day.
So I came back to Chattanoogaand uh, and it was at that point
(05:01):
I thought what could I do tomake the country a better place
At my point in my life?
And I told you I don't need ajob, but I worry about you, I
worry about grandchildren If wedon't take control of the
situation.
People, I mean.
(05:21):
Listen, it's been almost 30years since anybody's really
done anything productive.
In 2001, we balanced the budget.
Hadn't happened since.
I mean $34 trillion in debt andnobody talks about it.
Does that not bother you?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Oh, it definitely bothers me.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It bothers me every day.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
The question is I guess you know what is it now
30% of the total GDP that wehave to spend like deficits?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
spending every year yes, yes and that's insanity.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
How is that sustainable?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
long term it's not.
I mean, we are close to whereit's not.
And you know, I majored inaccounting and so I'm a numbers
guy and that's really how thisgot started was because I kept
looking at it and saying thisisn't going to work.
But do you ever hear me upthere talking about it?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I know it's political taboo to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
It's political taboo.
So you need somebody like mewho has I mean, if I don't get
reelected, because I tell thetruth, well, there it is, and
that's another thing is one ofthe reasons these guys don't do
what, and I'm going to defendthem just a little bit.
You know congressional twoyears, so as soon as you get
elected or reelected, you'rerunning again, yep.
(06:33):
So what are you going to do?
You're going to not do anythingcontroversial.
You don't want to do anything.
That's going to make people madand you're going to try to
raise money, and that's what youdo.
And so that's why Congress doesthings like you know, like last
year, I think, almost half oftheir legislation was naming
post offices.
I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I know, I believe you .
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And, like I said, I'm kind of halfway defending them,
because they're sitting theresaying well, if I tackle this
debt or if I tackle gun safety,or if I tackle border,
somebody's not going to like it,like it right, and it might
cost me my job and it's, it's,you know well, and now what
we're seeing, with um kind ofrunaway inflation, right when
(07:15):
what people don't realize is,when you start spending more
than you can afford, um the andyou have to print money, you
have to double, double thequantity of money in the money
supply.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
You're essentially adding a tax on the dollar after
the fact Exactly.
Who was it?
Milton Friedman.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Too many dollars chasing too few goods and
services.
Right Economy 101.
That's it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And so, yeah, I think that we're kind of at a point
where we're going to have toreckon with that in a real way,
and doing that takes courage.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
And that's why I'm doing this and listen if I don't
get elected, but I make peoplethink I would have done my job.
We need to know we've got tomake tough calls here and it's
not going to feel good, it'sgoing to be painful.
We're going to have to adjusttaxes.
Don't ever say raise no, butseriously, we're going to have
(08:12):
to adjust the tax.
But before we do that, we'regoing to have to curtail
spending, because if you'regoing to tell people they might
have to pay a little bit moretaxes, you're going to have to
look them in the eye and say butyou know what?
Every dollar that we're using,we're using.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Tell them why.
You know, newt Gingrich,there's going to have to be
value behind those dollars.
Newt Gingrich, bill.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Clinton.
Those guys didn't even likeeach other, but they got in a
room together.
They figured it out.
That's what's going to happen.
We got to find people who arebold enough to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Well, I think an even better example and I don't know
if Justin would like thisexample very much, but it's
Jimmy Carter.
I think Jimmy Carter made somecourageous decisions that kind
of saved the American economythat he doesn't get any credit
for, no, but they were necessaryand they were bold and they
ultimately saved a lot of people, a lot of grief in the long
term.
Now I think I disagree with thetaxation part.
(09:03):
In terms of raising taxes, Idon't necessarily, I didn't say
raise.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
You didn't say raise.
I did not say raise taxes, Isaid slight adjustments,
semantics.
Well, you don't adjust untilyou work.
You've got to work this sidefirst.
You've got to work this sidefirst and then, when you work
this side and you've done allyou can, then you might listen
so.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
so then let's look at the.
I guess the next question iswhere did those adjustments get
made on on the front end?
Where are the column cuts oradjustments or whatever?
But ultimately there are thingsthat get money that you have to
take money away from, and sowhat does that look like?
Where would you start trying tostart those conversations?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, you know it's, it's now you're asking me the
hard questions.
Yeah, so I got to.
I got to get my head into it,but I'm going to.
But I'm an accountant, right,that's what I did for a living.
I balanced budgets for 40 yearsand so I got it.
You know, do I know the answersnow?
No, but would I know them?
Yeah, I mean, but I got to getmy head into it.
(10:07):
I mean, for instance, we keeptalking about Social Security.
We talk about does anybody wantto talk about that?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
No, I do.
You do, I do because yeah, I do, but I'm a very strange person
sometimes.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
But you know and listen, we have a lot of smart
people in this country that wegot to get their head into it
and help us.
You know, my job is really andI told you in the beginning I
said I majored in accounting, Iwas a banker, but I'm a
salesperson.
That's really what I am.
So you're going to have thesmartest people and this is what
I did in my banking history.
(10:42):
I surrounded myself with thesmartest people I could find and
I let them figure out how weneeded to do it, and then I sold
it.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Now, so I guess my next question is a little bit of
an oddball.
Okay, a lot of politicians saythat that's true.
A lot of politicians say thatThey'll surround themselves with
the smartest people.
I guess what defines a smartperson?
Well, you know I know that's areal difficult question.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
No, no, no.
Let me give you an example.
I met this morning, had coffeewith an attorney, and he looked
me in the eye and he said andwhen I go and I tell people all
the time this is my, this is mycampaign, first off, you've got
to be there, you've got to showup.
I go to the folks, you have tolisten and you have to be
(11:32):
respectful.
Now I sat down with an attorneythis morning who I cold called,
just like you, and he didn'tlike everything I had to say and
I said, well, hey, let's have acup of coffee.
And we spent an hour and a halftoday and he gave me four or
five things that he said are youthinking about these things?
I said well, I'm kind ofthinking about it.
He said you need to think moreof them because he's a
30-something.
These are the things thatmatter to him.
(11:53):
It's guys like him that I wouldpull into our group.
I've got three people workingfor me now that none of them are
30 years old.
The way they see the world is alot different than the way I
see it, but I have to listen tothem because this is their world
now.
It's not mine, you know.
(12:15):
I would have.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Well, let me back up.
I'm going to disagree with that.
Okay, I have a teenager.
Okay, and I love him, and he'sa brilliant person for a
teenager, right?
Okay, somebody under 30, I knowwhat it's like to be under 30.
Right, I was not as capable oras knowledgeable as I am now at
38.
And that's just a matter offact.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And I did grow up with technology and so I do have
there.
There was a transition pointthat I think that that maybe you
missed as as as part of yourgeneration, but the the
transition point like when I,since I was a kid, I've been in
this, so it's, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna disagree because Iunderstand a lot of the
consequences of the decisions oftechnology.
(12:59):
Use better than a 20 somethingwould at any day of the week and
I would argue that with anyoneand probably do it successfully.
So I think that removing othervoices like yours, people from
your generation, who are?
still very much voters and whostill very much have opinions
(13:20):
and who still very much don'tnecessarily respect or agree
with the opinions of a20-something.
That I think that'sdisrespectful, almost.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Well, and look, we're not removing them.
I'm just saying we're listeningto them, but you still got to
have granddad out there who'slived through it.
And let me give you an example.
Sure, this inflation thing ishorrible.
It's horrible.
(13:50):
But you know what?
I had a house one time at 18%.
Remember, you're not old enoughto remember the crazy interest
rates I was with Carter.
Yeah, yeah, I had a house at18% it took me almost 10, and we
had inflation through the roof.
I mean, this inflation wasnothing like what we had.
It took me 10 years to recoverfrom that, to finally get myself
back on.
(14:10):
We're in a similar situation now, but what young people need is
people who've lived through itbefore, and the reason you know,
I grew up listening to theWorld War II generation and
those folks and all thehardships.
You know we're in a hardshiptime now and so you need some
people with some maturity to saylook, but we've got to stay
(14:32):
focused and we've got to fix itone piece at a time, and that's
everything I look at is along-term fix, it's not a
short-term fix.
And I think the problem we havenow is I call it the microwave
world.
You want to fix the border?
Hey, build a wall.
You want to fix guns?
Take them all away.
I mean, none of it's a quickfix, it's a 10-year fix, but
(14:54):
it's not going to be fixedunless you recognize it, you
talk about it and you worktogether to fix it.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay, so you've mentioned the border a couple of
times.
Let's talk about, kind of yourposition on that.
You know, and it's just acomplex situation.
There's a lot happening andmoving pieces and you have the
issues with folks coming fromSouth America, from Mexico, from
Central America.
Now there's a growing concernthat there's a lot of immigrants
who are coming from China aswell.
(15:24):
What are your thoughts on that?
Well, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I was sitting in the car.
I was almost late because I waslistening to the president.
He just announced that he'sshutting the border down after
all this time.
But here's the thing we're allimmigrants, every one of us,
everybody's sitting here.
We're all immigrants, every oneof us, everybody sitting here.
We're all immigrants.
Our birth rate in this countryis 1.6%.
We're not replacing ourselves.
We need probably at least acouple million people to come
(15:50):
into this a year in this countryto keep the lights on.
I mean, it's important that weget people in this country.
It's important that we getpeople in this country.
The problem is is in the last 30years, it's become political
and nobody has addressed animmigration system that works.
And so I'm hoping you knowPresident Biden was bold enough
(16:13):
to you know he's slowing it down.
You've got to slow it down.
You know, I had a guy who ownsa construction company.
He came to me and he said wouldyou do me a favor?
I said what he said go down tothe border, sort people out,
give them a Social Security cardand a work visa and tell them
(16:34):
come back in five years and youcould be a citizen.
He said I can't find people towork, and so it's a double-edged
sword.
You know you like to say, oh,immigration's bad and all these
people flooding across theborder, but didn't this
construction guy over here?
He can't find people to work.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I'd ask him what his pay rate is.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
No, he's no.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
No, no, I mean, that's an honest question.
What are you paying people?
And is the reason that you'rehiring the folks who are coming
over the border because you canpay them a lot less?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I think he's hiring them because it's the only
people In fact.
I had a roof put on my house.
I knew the contractor andeverybody that was working on my
roof you could tell wasn't bornhere and I looked at him and I
said what's the story?
And he said these are the bestworkers I've ever found.
(17:23):
And I went out and talked tothem, fed them some lunch.
You know they were as happy asthey could be, but they're happy
to work.
You know, and this is, let mesay this, and this is go ahead.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Well, my next question would be if we have
laws, should we enforce them?
Then yes, okay, so if someoneenters the country illegally,
that's what's happening, rightnow, that's my question.
If they're already hereillegally as well, what happens
then?
I'm not suggesting any sort offix.
I'm just asking you becauseyou're running for Congress,
(17:57):
don't you expect a?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
fix.
Nobody had one in 30 years, butI should have it.
No, no, no, hang on.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
There was one under President Obama.
President Obama did have thein-place I don't remember
exactly what it's called inMexico, where people stayed in
Mexico while they were seekingtheir visa.
All right, and that worked, andthe number of people crossing
over the border was significant,like 30x less, but do you know
why?
Why?
(18:22):
Because it was more difficultto get into the country.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
No, I'll tell you exactly why.
And go back and look at thenumbers.
You got Obama and Biden right.
Sure, lowest number ofcrossings.
Now you got Biden biggestnumber of crossings Same guy.
What's going on If you go backto the Obama years, do you
remember the big, big, bigdepression we went through for
(18:47):
five years In 08.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, you remember that, yes.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
No jobs, they're not coming.
Guess what's happening now?
Jobs everywhere.
So it has nothing to do with it, it's all supply and demand.
Everything is supply and demand.
It has nothing to do with it,it's all supply and demand.
Everything is supply and demand.
There is demand and if there'sdemand, they're coming.
And I mean you just look at thenumbers.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Well, I mean, at that point in time, there was also
border enforcement.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
But if there had been jobs, they'd have flooded over
it.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
But also there was border enforcement, and that
hasn't been happening until now.
I'm not giving the presidenthis—I'm not anti-Joe Biden.
I'm not anti—I'm as independentas anybody can be.
I'm just telling you, if thereare jobs and I'm over here
saying get over here, we got youa job people are coming, and so
my question I guess next wouldbe if you have American citizens
(19:37):
who are saying, hey, now I getpaid less because we're letting
those folks come in, what do yousay to those people?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Well, I hadn't even said it to me.
I mean, there are jobs outthere.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
If you talk to blue-collar workers, I bet you
could get a few.
Yeah, what do you think, justin, as a person who employs
blue-collar workers?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Do you all really want my opinion on this?
Yeah, tell us what you think.
No, listen the person whoemploys blue collar workers.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Do y'all really want my opinion on this?
Okay, tell us what you think.
No, listen, this is a 30-yearproblem.
Yeah, I don't know the answer,but I do listen and I want an
answer.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I think a lot, a lot of, and a lot of people don't
want to address it or hear it is, uh, lack of work ethic in
american society.
It really is, because I'm acontractor and I have several
crews and my roofing crews thatI sub out to are all Hispanic.
You are not going to find verymany crews of American born
(20:36):
roofers and those guys make moremoney than my guys that make
$25 an hour because they getpaid by the job.
They want to get paid by thejob and they get it done.
They will roof this house.
They did.
They roofed this house in a day.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Well, I'm so glad, I'm just playing the contrarian.
No, I'm so glad you told thatstory because I was going to
tell it but I didn't.
But when they roofed my house,let me tell you.
They showed up at 6 o'clock inthe morning.
They ate lunch on the roof.
Exactly, they ate lunch on theroof.
One of the guys had a bad cuton his hand from cutting things
(21:13):
and I looked at him and I saidwe need to get you to the
hospital to get some stitches.
You know what he did?
He put duct tape on his handand his supervisor said he's not
leaving because he's not goingto lose an hour's work.
And at 6 o'clock in the eveningthey were done.
Now, thank you for saying that,because there is a work ethic.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Oh, there's no doubt.
There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, because when you go back to talking about you
know, Chris, you were sayinglike how much are you paying?
It doesn't matter, You'repaying people hourly Just.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
You were saying like, how much are you paying, it
doesn't matter, Um, you'repaying people hourly just
because, you're paying morehourly, it doesn't mean they're
going to get more done in thathour, but you're more likely but
you are more likely to findsomeone who, if you're paying a
higher wage, you are more likelyto find someone who will do
that work at that higher levelfor that.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
But in construction, nine times out of 10, you're
going to get the best labor bypaying by the job and letting
those guys run themselvesindependently.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
And.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I've I've had more success with Hispanic crews than
I have with American.
Quote unquote.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they understand and and and
understand that I'm saying I'mnot saying I'm not disagreeing
with any of that.
I'm not disagreeing with any ofthat.
Um, I'm looking at it throughthe political periscope, which
is 10,000 miles high.
Yeah 10,000 feet high, and sowhen you're looking at it that
(22:31):
way, it's very different thanwhen you hear this story here.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Right.
But also you hear the storyabout your guy who, when you had
to hire a second crew, who'sworried that he's going to lose
his job because maybe he's notas fast as the other guy.
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah andthat's, and so you try to take
care of everybody so he needs topick up the pace yeah
Speaker 3 (22:54):
that's right that's the idea, but then my taxes on
everything are so high I've gotto go with the shooting.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I'm just kidding let me tell you what I think the the
biggest challenge we have as acountry is sure, let's hear it
and I talk to people all thetime you think about this.
Everybody, or not everybody,almost everybody, including my
ancestors, your ancestors, weall came here for a better life
(23:21):
and we all knew that we're goingto have to work for it.
Yes, I don't care whether it'smy crowd from your crowd, the
guys coming across the board,the Chinese that built a
railroad 100% Everybody.
Now, what is the genetic makeupof somebody who will cross the
ocean to come work?
(23:42):
Not everybody does it, so we'rea pretty aggressive bunch of
folks.
I mean, you look at us and thenyou look at Europe.
They're over there drinking.
Well, I shouldn't say that, butit's a different lifestyle.
It is Not here.
Look at it.
You guys probably got you'reprobably going to work until 8
o'clock tonight.
I mean you guys going to dothis.
Oh, I wish you guys going to dothat?
Oh, I wish no no, no no, I mean, it's like.
It's like me.
(24:02):
I'm at the point in my lifewhere I ought to be out on the
golf course.
I don't want to play golf, Iwant to keep going.
It's our genetic makeup, so sothat's the beauty of it, but the
problem is is herding everybodytogether.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yes, that's the issue .
Oh for sure.
I mean, when you, when youstart, um, when cultures
converge, especially in mass,then you tend to end up with
some turbulence as a result ofit.
And don't take this as me beinganti-immigration I am not.
Some of the hardest workingpeople I know in the world are
immigrants and they deserveeverything that they have.
(24:36):
No doubt I just have to playthe devil's advocate because
that's who I am.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
I was speaking to a group of people who are US
citizens, but they allimmigrated.
I was chatting with them and Isaid here's the deal, guys I can
go to China, but I can never beChinese.
I can go to Japan, but I cannever be Japanese.
But I can come to America and Ican be un-American.
And those folks out theresmiled.
I said you are Americans, that.
(25:01):
And those folks out there smile.
I said you are Americans,that's the most important thing
you are.
That's your first label.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Now, what does it mean to be American?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Well, it means you get up and you go to work every
day and you pay your taxes andyou obey the laws and you have
the right, just like I did.
See now, I worked two jobs for13 years when I was younger.
I've worked two jobs for 13years.
You have the right to make it.
You have that opportunity tomake it.
(25:31):
And you talk about thoseChinese guys, all these people
crossing the border.
I was listening to a podcast andthey tracked a Chinese guy down
and his daughter who crossedthe border, and they tracked him
down.
He was in San Francisco and Isaid okay, tell us the story.
He said my family owns someapartments in China.
(25:53):
He said we were prettywell-to-do people and he said
one day the government came inand they said we need this land
because we're going to build afactory.
And he says well, what do weget out of?
It?
Said nothing, you're gone.
And he said we were well enoughoff that we had passports.
He said my daughter and I tookour passports and we flew to
central america and we paid tocome up.
(26:17):
That horrible trip to comeacross the border went to San
Francisco and he's deliveringpackages in San Francisco,
living in a small littlewhatever.
But he said I would rather bein this country delivering
packages, knowing that if Ideliver enough packages I can
(26:39):
keep it back in China where Imay work myself my entire life,
and the government come along,take it away from me.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Hey, justin, I think Jack may have just made the
argument for your Airbnb thingthat we were talking about
earlier.
Um, where so?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
that it could be worse.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yes, that it, that it could be worse than that, that
there is a slippery slope thatyou kind of that, you always
kind of ride when you you startdealing with any form of
government.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
But yeah, no, we won't go into that.
But we're sitting here talkingabout immigrants.
We're all immigrants, we're allimmigrants, sort of Sort of
Sort of Most of me.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I understand that argument from at least the level
of a story.
Everybody has an origin, sure,and they're not.
All the same, I think there isa security piece that we run
into when you don't have thenecessary checks in place.
Well, that's why we have thesystems in place, and I'm not
disagreeing that maybe thesystems should be expedited or
(27:44):
maybe we should give moreresources to those systems, but
I'm saying that they're in placeto protect the people already
here from potential threats.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
We're in total agreement on that.
I mean, that's 30 years ofneglect, really.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Right, yeah, because you know, like I said, for every
10 people that there are thatare really great human beings
coming across that that border.
Maybe there's one that's bad,but if you have 10 million, you
know that's a lot of people whoare bad.
You know what I'm saying.
Small number times a big numberis a big number.
That's right, that's right, andso it's.
It's again, it's.
How do you, how do younecessarily measure the between
(28:18):
the compassionate, the, betweenthe the compassionate part,
which is important, and the andthe security part, which is
equally?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
important.
That's what I hope is happeningtoday.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Right, yes, me too.
Before you go, let's go into afive minutes.
Justin said he had five minutesto talk about healthcare before
he has to leave and he does.
He does switch.
We'll have to do this againsometime before before, before,
before you get back to uh,before the election uh is over,
um, but um, let's talk abouthealthcare.
(28:46):
Uh, just kind of an overview ofwhere you stand, what you're
trying to accomplish, and no, wetalked about, uh, the financial
portion of it and and the uhnational debt.
Um, healthcare, you know,adding things to that would make
that difficult.
Um, healthcare, adding thingsto that would make that
difficult.
Taking things away from thatwould be difficult in the
current state.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And so that's a really big can of worms there
that we have to look at.
It is, and I don't even knowwhere to start.
I spent six years on thehospital board of a small
hospital, so I understand thechallenges in a hospital.
I spent four and a half yearsas a caregiver for my wife who
had cancer.
I understand the challenges ofa patient.
(29:27):
The system does not work reallywell.
That's why we have two doctorswho are on our campaign that are
working on healthcare issues.
Healthcare reform I mean nobodywants to talk about it and I'm
sure not going to talk about it.
But long term there probablyhas to be some sort of a
national safety net, like everyother country, every other
(29:52):
civilized country in the world.
But, like I said, our situationis we're so far gone now with
the system that we've got.
It's got to be fine-tuned.
I don't know the answers.
I know that the president hastried to limit prices on certain
drugs.
I don't know if I told you, butI'm the caregiver for my
(30:13):
mother-in-law.
My wife was an only child.
The reason I'm in Chattanoogais because I'm taking care of my
mother-in-law.
I've been keeping up with her,or taking care of her for 10
years.
I got a call yesterday about anew drug that she might need.
Now she's 91 years old and theco-pay was $350.
And I said I need to know moreabout this drug Now.
They hadn't called me back yet.
(30:34):
But I don't understand it.
Healthcare is a problem and theanswers?
Speaker 1 (30:42):
I got a book for you.
I think you might like that,particularly with the current
policy that we we have in placewith um, the affordable care act
, how it was kind of built andstructured and the legislation
itself was formed.
Um, it was written by one ofthe I think it was a was
Washington Post columnist whowas there in all of the
committee meetings and all thatstuff as the legislation was
(31:02):
formed and kind of walks throughhow much influence all these
independent pieces had onstructuring that legislation.
So it's kind of a Frankenstein,oh yeah, in terms of how it
works, because it didn'tactually do anything to help
people like you when you'redealing with your wife.
I'm sure you had to deal withthe insurances and be on phone
calls with people trying to getthings paid for.
(31:22):
Well, it did.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
It did because she couldn't be canceled, right.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I mean that was big.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I mean, I probably wouldn't be sitting here today
had I been canceled.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, I mean, I was that's big.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, no, she was in a an individual plan like that,
so that was huge.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Oh no, I'm not saying that the Affordable Care Act
was entirely bad.
I'm saying that the way that itwas piecemealed made it
functionally and structurallydifficult to navigate.
And that was by design, becauseif they were getting the
individual mandate they would— Iimagine the, not imagine if you
read the read the legislationthe insurance companies made it
difficult.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
To make the claims, yeah, and so, as a result, they
have fewer claims, and so itkind of made up some of them.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
It's clever is what it is.
Listen, I understand it all.
I mean, like I said, Iunderstand from both sides.
Yeah, back to healthcare,though, and this is something
that the state should do.
We're only one of 10 statesthat did not expand Medicare.
Now, listen, we've had either16 or 17 hospitals close in
(32:33):
Tennessee.
We're the largest or the secondlargest, and this district that
I'm in goes all the way almostto Kentucky.
A lot of it is rural, and wehave healthcare deserts up there
, because the healthcare is theER or the amulets or they're 45
minutes from a trauma center,and so if we had done anything
(32:59):
right, it would have been thatthe state of Tennessee and
everybody's looking at oh Jack,that's a liberal thing.
Well, it may be, but we're onlyone of 10 states that didn't do
it, and we got closed hospitalsright and left and communities
that don't have health care.
I think we made a mistake there.
It's not too late to correct,but that's not national, that's
a state issue.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And the problem this is theproblem that I have mostly with
and, and that the state, I don'tknow what the, the strings that
were attached to the money are,um, but I can almost guarantee
you there were strings that wereattached to her um, and
unfortunately, there ispolitical posturing that occurs
on both sides of the aisle and,um, you know, just like for a
while I believe it wascalifornia that banned certain,
(33:38):
uh, certain things from otherstates that they disagreed with
too, and so I mean, there's alot of silliness like that that
happens, um, when you startgetting uh politics involved.
And is it wrong?
Yeah, it's wrong, um, itdoesn't matter who's doing it,
uh, so it's.
We're going to end real quickhere.
In the last few minutes We'lltalk about, uh, partisanship, uh
kind of the divide.
(33:59):
There's a large number ofpeople in the country who are
concerned about civil war.
I mean, who thought that in2024 we'd be sitting here
talking about this?
But you're talking.
40-something percent of peoplein the country think that that's
a real possibility, and there'sa desperate need for healing
that divide and trying to buildtrust with the government again.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I'm that guy.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Tell us how that's going to happen?
Speaker 2 (34:23):
No, I hear you Listen .
I spent my life pulling peopletogether.
When you run a community bank,you run a community.
Now I was in a community thatwas probably 70% Republican.
I live on the D side.
These were all my friends.
We all worked together.
(34:44):
Listen, somebody asked me.
They said if you went toWashington, would you cross the
aisle?
I said I would live on theother side of the aisle.
My goal would be best friendswith everybody, because that's
how it starts, and we lost that.
We lost that, those friendships.
Somebody talked to me the otherday and they said the more I
talk to you, the more you seemlike an old line Republican.
(35:07):
Seriously, you know who?
One of my models is HowardBaker.
I went to Huntsville last weekto pay homage to Howard.
It's in our district and I wentthere last week and I talked to
people in Huntsville and wetalked about Howard.
You know Howard Baker would saythe other guy might be right.
That was his famous thing andyou may have listened to the
(35:28):
podcast that they do, but buthis deal was always listen to
other people because they mightjust be right.
We need more Howard Bakers.
We need more Jack Allens,because I'm not going to listen,
you're not going to make me mad.
You're not going to hurt myfeelings.
You're going to tell me what.
The guy I had breakfast withthis morning.
He started telling me aboutthings.
I said you know, tell me whatyou think.
(35:49):
You're not going to hurt myfeelings.
I need to know, and so I thinkthe most most important thing we
can do is circle the wagons andquit Just quit fighting.
In our campaign, you cannot usethe word fight.
You know how all these peoplesay I'll fight for you, I'll
(36:15):
fight for you.
That's been outlawed.
You can't use it.
You can say we will work withyou, we will work together, we
will work as a team, but we'renot fighting.
The time for fighting is over.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Jack Allen.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Thank you for joining us on the Build Something Media
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Let's build something .
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yes, sir, this has been a nice conversation.
We should do it again here in alittle bit, after you've talked
to another 18,000 people.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Thank, you, Chris.
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Bye.
Well, I thought that went well,thank you.
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