December 19, 2024 • 29 mins
This episode explores the evolving landscape of sales in a post-pandemic world, emphasizing the importance of trust and efficiency. The conversation covers how small businesses can adapt their selling strategies to foster authentic relationships, minimize waste, and better understand consumer behavior.
• Emphasis on building trust through personal relationships
• Community involvement as a strategy for establishing credibility
• The need for businesses to understand client needs through questioning
• Strategies for nurturing tailored experiences for customers
• Focus on gathering client information rather than just dispensing it
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We really have to think about what do other people
value and what do we value, andhow do we start to communicate
and make decisions differentlyfrom that?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey friends and welcome back to the Build With
BBB podcast.
I'm your host, casey Farmer,here with longtime friend and
community member Mike Crandallof Sandler Training, oklahoma.
Today we're going to be talkingabout how to sell to the modern
buyer and I think this issomething a lot of our small
businesses might be interestedto know as you prep for 2025
what that looks like, howSandler Training of Oklahoma
(00:41):
might be able to give you a handin that and provide some
resources.
So welcome to the podcast, mikeHappy to have you.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
So, casey, I'm so excited to be on your podcast.
You and I have known each otherfor a long time.
We've been involved with theBBB for a long time, so when you
reached out and said, hey, we'dlove to have you on the podcast
, I don't know that I could sayyes fast enough, so super
excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, I will say coming to BBB, joining the team
full-time Sandler Training ofOklahoma was one of the very
first kind of organizations andgroups that I was introduced to.
I think I attended something onsmall business marketing and I
got to meet some smallbusinesses for the first time.
And yeah, you do a lot of greatwork in the community and we're
thankful for you.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, so tell us about Sandler Training of
Oklahoma first.
I think that's a pretty easyjumping off point in what you do
and how you help businesses.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, so our organization really focuses on
three functional areas in anorganization leadership,
management and sales.
Most of our clients come to usbecause they have growth
objectives that they have notyet been able to reach.
That could be in revenue, thatcould be an employee account,
that could be in locations, thatcould be in work-life balance.
(01:49):
But most of those businessowners, or most of our clients,
are small to medium-sizedbusiness owners that come to us
because they know that they'renot experts in growing business.
They're experts in whatevertheir business is.
They're experts in remodelingor landscaping or marketing
whatever their business is.
We're experts in growingbusiness.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
That's wonderful.
So when you are working withthe businesses, is there a size
parameter that you really try togo for, like one to five
employees, five to ten?
Who is your ideal client?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, so it's a great question.
So our range of clients thatare on some type of retainer
with us right now ranges fromindividual solopreneurs up to a
couple thousand employees, butthe vast majority of our clients
are usually between about threeto five employees on the low
end and about 50 to 70 employeeson the high end.
(02:41):
That's really the sweet spotthat the majority of our clients
fall into.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
So for anybody listening today, if a business
said, hey, some of thoseproblems that Mike mentioned, I
think I need some help with thatin my business, what does that
look like in terms of aconsultation with Sandler
Training?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, so that's a great question.
So one of the things that Ifind is that most people have
never actually bought outsidebusiness guidance like ours, and
so a lot of times, evenfiguring out what does that look
like, how does that work, is achallenge.
So it's also unfortunate thatit's really easy to spend money
on coaching, consulting,training, outside services that
(03:16):
aren't any good.
So I always say that we take anapproach kind of like buying
something big.
Very few people would buy a carwithout a test drive.
Very few people would buy ahouse without walking through it
and checking it out.
So the very first step in ourprocess is people just joining
one of our public sessions as aguest.
We've always got a guest passand I'll give you the link if
(03:37):
you want to put that in the shownotes where people can join.
We've got a webpage built.
That's just how do you fill outor how do you join us as a
guest.
It's a quick form to fill outand then somebody from our team
will visit with them and figureout what's coming up on the
calendar that fits you best.
After that, if you decide that,hey, this is the type of thing
that could really support ourbusiness, where we're at and
(03:59):
where we're going.
Then we typically scheduleabout a one hour meeting to
determine what steps make themost sense next, based on size,
based on growth objectives,based on potential investment
options and things like that.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So you kind of mentioned it in your explanation
of where businesses are.
But I often see smallbusinesses will bring in an
outside person to do some kindof contract work with whether
it's marketer, they're helpingwith sales or whatever it is and
they kind of get burned.
What are some things thatbusinesses can do to avoid that
up front?
You mentioned that you've kindof got this free offering, but
(04:36):
what questions should they beasking?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
things that I always encourage people to do, if
they're going to bring inoutside services whether that's
helping with leadership,management, sales, marketing,
even bringing an outsourcedbookkeeper, whatever that might
be is figure out some way tohave, for lack of better terms,
a trial period, whether that's aguest pass, whether that's hey,
we're going to do step one andsee if we like each other before
(05:04):
we agree to step two, seven,nine, whatever those other
things are.
I know it sounds crazy simple,but a lot of times people jump
in and they don't even thinkabout what does that look like?
And I'll elaborate on that.
I've had a lot of people thathave signed multi-year
agreements to do work withsomebody and they got a couple
months in and they realized that, hey, this isn't what I really
(05:25):
thought it was going to be, andI know a few people have even
gotten some litigationchallenges because they tried to
break up with a marketingpartner or they tried to break
up with somebody.
Before you jump into thatlonger thing, there should
always be something that's, forlack of better terms, a test
drive to figure out is it evengoing to line up with what we're
thinking about or focused on?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, super helpful, thank you.
So let's get into the meat ofthis episode.
The reason I had reached out iswe have had, over the past,
just a lot of small businessessay I need help with sales, or I
need to figure out how tostreamline my sales, or I need
to know how to hire asalesperson.
And you have this wonderfultraining program where you talk
about how do we sell to themodern buyer Because there are
that's a lot right.
It's not just in one way thatpeople are looking to connect
with small businesses.
(06:09):
So tell me a little bit aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah Well, casey, if it's okay with you, I'm going to
back up a little bit and kindof share some of the things that
we see that it really led to myentire life and you know I
speak all over, I coach, Iconsult, I train and you know I
speak all over, I coach, Iconsult, I train, I'm a
published author and gives methe opportunity to have a really
good filter to processinformation through.
And for a very long time in mylife I've had people tell me
(06:32):
that I've got this unique giftof taking things that can be
somewhat complex and simplifyingthem.
And about 10 to 12 years ago Iwas speaking at an event and one
of the points that I brought upis that the business only has
three parts.
It doesn't matter what yourindustry is, what your business
is, size, complexity, for-profit, not-for-profit.
There's only three parts to anybusiness.
(06:53):
There's selling, whatever it isyour business does, selling
your products, selling yourservices.
Then there's the delivery ofthat and so delivering whatever
it is that you sold yourproducts, your services, and
then there's the backendoperations and admin.
So if you're a landscapecompany, you have to sell the
landscape and then you have todeliver and install the
landscape, and then you stillhave to do the bookwork and
(07:14):
paperwork and all the legalstuff to stay in compliance.
And so if you think aboutbusinesses selling, delivering,
and then the backend operationsand admin it's a good way to
dissect this.
And if we look at what a lot oftimes people will call the
post-COVID world, because we'rea couple of years past when
COVID started now things havechanged pretty substantially on
(07:37):
lots of different levels andCOVID didn't cause those changes
.
What happened is that COVIDexposed those changes or
accelerated those changes.
And if you look at those threeparts to a business selling,
delivering, and then theback-end operations and admin
the one that was impacted themost by things that have
happened since COVID started issales.
(07:59):
Because if I'm installinglandscaping, I'm still
installing it the same way, I'mstill using the same equipment,
the same shovels, the samepeople, et cetera.
I'm still doing bookkeeping thesame way, I'm still processing
payroll the same way, but salesgetting in front of people
getting their attention, gettingthem to say yes and agree to do
business with you, hasfundamentally changed, and it
(08:22):
really boils down to two bigthings.
We like to say that the twobiggest things that have
impacted that are trust andwaste.
If you think about what'shappened the last couple of
years and you're in charge ofthe marketing here, so you're
well versed on this is that wedistrust at the highest level
ever so.
Trust is at the lowest levelever so we mean.
(08:44):
But the desire for trustedrelationships is also at an
all-time high, and a uniquething happened at the beginning
of COVID, where we really didn'ttrust big information.
We trusted what somebody nextto us said or somebody that we
already had a relationship with.
That's why organizations likethe BBB have become so important
(09:07):
is that you guys have alwaysbeen grounded in trust for all
of the decades that BBB hasexisted.
So your members reach out andsay, hey, who should I trust to
do fill in the blank?
And the community reaches outbecause obviously individuals
are generally not members of theBBB.
If you take and you put that ina bigger picture we we want
(09:30):
someone to trust, but we don'tknow who to trust.
We're more suspicious andskeptical than we've ever been,
and what's really happened isthat we've been conditioned lots
of things over the last coupleof years to not believe anything
we see unless it comes fromsomebody that we already trust
and believe.
(09:50):
So, just because I saw aFacebook ad, if it didn't come
or it wasn't shared with me bysomebody that I know and trust,
I probably rejected it evenquicker, whether that's a radio
commercial or TV commercial orbillboard or whatever it is
what's happened, especially inthe smaller businesses.
It means that we have to beeven more discerning in the
(10:11):
activities that we have that areputting us out there, because
are they helping us build trustor are they maybe taking
resources that are actuallycosting us?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
In what ways do you see small businesses make those
mistakes in terms of hey, that'snot really helping your
trustworthy reputation.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It's interesting, almost everybody, at least in
our society, was raised withsomething along the lines from
our parents or whoever raised us.
Hey, if someone starts withtrust me, run the other way and
we all laugh and giggle and grin, just like you are right now.
But if you watch theadvertising that's happened by a
(10:52):
lot of organizations the lastcouple of years, things like an
organization you can trust ortrusted since 1976 are actually
higher than ever.
And I see people, especiallypeople that have advertising
spend spending more and more andmore to get less and less less
(11:12):
response because they're tryingto tell people to trust them
through media versusrelationships.
And I'll give you a goodexample.
I've got a client that they'vebeen in business for 60 plus
years and in 2020 was the firsttime we ever had them really
track cost per lead.
(11:33):
We didn't start working withthem until 2020, but it was a
statistic they'd never tracked.
So they went back and they wereable to look at 2019 and an
actual paid lead for them wasunder $100 in 2019.
In 2019.
In 2023, that was almost athousand dollars for a paid lead
(11:54):
and every time they went backto the person who was selling
them the marketing andadvertising to do that, they
said well, you just need tospend more.
And they realized that they wereactually spending themselves in
marketing and advertisingalmost out of business because
they were trying to build trustthrough electronic messaging
versus face-to-facerelationships.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
So that's something that your team does really well.
You often see Sandler trainingand you lead OKPSA.
So tell me why or how a smallbusiness owner can start getting
involved in the community in away to build that kind of trust.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Well, one of the things that we say and everybody
kind of knows this on somelevel and it's existed for a
long time, but I will tell youit's really kind of skyrocketed
is just the phrase people buyfrom people, especially if it's
something that's not a reallylow-priced commodity.
I might buy bottled watersimply on price at a warehouse
place or have it delivered to mybusiness, but when you get into
(12:51):
things like remodeling ormarketing or all the things
where you're going to have tohave more than one conversation
like send me three cases ofwater trust becomes more
important.
And what I find most smallbusinesses aren't doing well, or
need to not as well as theycould be, is figuring out how do
I get around people that willsay, hey, I trust you because.
(13:14):
And so being involved inorganizations, being involved in
the community, being involvedin places where people can get
to build a relationship with youor the people on your team,
becomes crucial.
And so if you're in a group,maybe it's the chamber.
Being part of the BBB or theOKPSA, which is the Oklahoma
Professional Sales Association,are all great examples of that,
(13:37):
because, as the member of lotsof different things, I get asked
questions like this Mike, hey,which member does fill in the
blank?
And I know when I answer thatquestion that there's a really
high percentage chance the saleis already completed if there's
actually a business need there.
If there's not a business need,that's a different thing.
But going out and meetingpeople, getting involved where
(13:59):
people can go, hey, I know, fillin the blank, name a person and
that takes that people buy frompeople thing to a whole nother
level than one other ad that'sin your Facebook ads.
That gets drowned out bysomebody that's always going to
be able to outspend you.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
You mentioned the other thing that you see most
often is waste.
Let's go down that line.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, so it's an interesting dynamic.
So we are in a world where it'seasier to waste time, energy
and money now than ever, butpeople want to waste time,
energy and money less than ever.
And so when you start to thinkabout it and back to the example
of maybe some advertising I'mnot saying all advertising is
bad, but it's easy to wastemoney and not get the results
(14:41):
that you want.
So if I'm not careful, I'mwasting more.
And so here's a good examplewhen it comes to people, buy
from people and waste.
If you really need an hour tomeasure and take pictures, to
put together an estimate for meto do something at my house.
I know a lot of BBB memberssell to homeowners, construction
services etc.
The challenge is that if Idon't see value in that up front
(15:04):
as the potential consumer, Iautomatically think that that
hour is a waste.
I automatically think that thathour is a waste.
So the salesperson, thebusiness owner, has to figure
out how do I do a good job upfront of painting the picture of
why that hour is so important?
Otherwise we may have alreadylost right up front, because if
(15:33):
I'm a consumer and I'm lookingat it that this hour might be a
waste of my time.
Why would I want to even putthat hour on my calendar?
And so when you start to breakit into time, energy, money and
waste, we really have to thinkabout what do other people value
and what do we value, and howdo we start to communicate and
make decisions differently fromthat what's the first step a
business can do in identifyingthose things?
yeah.
So a good thing that Iencourage people to do is really
think about do you have areally good handle on why people
(15:57):
have said yes to you in thelast two years?
And I will tell you, one of thefirst exercises when people do
something with us beyond just astandalone workshop or bootcamp
is that we will frequently havethem do a best fit client
exercise.
And this is usually with theownership team because it needs
to be research coming from, notthe sales person, especially if
(16:19):
it's an organization that hassalespeople and owner.
But we always encourage them totake out a blank sheet of paper
Word document, excel document,it really doesn't matter.
Think about the pieces ofbusiness that you have sold in
the last year to two years thatyou consider your best fit
Doesn't mean biggest, doesn'teven mean most profitable, but
the jobs you enjoyed having theclients that you enjoyed working
(16:42):
with, the people that were nota pain in the, whatever you want
to say, and then really gothrough an exercise to say how
did we get in front of them?
Was it word of mouth?
Was it a Facebook ad?
Was it something else?
Because most people reallydon't have a good handle on that
.
But then, more importantly andthis is an ownership exercise
(17:05):
making a phone call to saythings like hey, casey, we
really appreciate the businessand so glad that you hired us.
Can I ask you a couple questions?
So, first and foremost, ournotes show that you came to us
because your friend Stevethought we were a good fit for
you.
Is that accurate, or did youhear about us from someplace
else?
I'm going to get real good inforeal quick.
And the second thing is, casey,what made it comfortable enough
(17:27):
for you to agree to the actualmeeting where we sat down and
visited?
And then, casey, I'm curiousdid you automatically know you
were going to buy from us or didyou call and get information
and pricing from several otherpeople?
And if you did, what made youdecide on us versus one of those
(17:48):
other organizations or people?
Now, that sounds crazy simple,but most people really don't
know.
And what I find happens sofrequently is that people
haven't even dug in to figureout.
How did people find us, reallyfind us, not just what box got
checked in the database.
And then why did they say yes?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So, after the business owner takes their time
to ask those questions and thenthey just file it away in a box
and don't do anything with it,what's that next step that they
need to be doing with thatinformation from their ideal
client or repeat customer?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, so one of the things that we always encourage
people to do is to take thatdata.
If they're clients of ours,we're going to help them use
that data to figure out how dowe refine our process.
One of the things that mostorganizations are really not
good at is simply asking forintroductions.
If you hired me to do somethingand you were happy, I kind of
(18:45):
almost owe it to you to say, hey, who else has similar
challenges or problems or thingsthat they want?
And when people do it, a lot ofpeople don't do it.
When they do it, they tend tomake it awkward and
uncomfortable.
Hey, casey, you got anyreferrals for me, by the way,
nobody likes that.
It's awkward for both sides.
But if you just told me that,hey, you know that kitchen
(19:06):
remodel we did was awesome andyou know I love everything about
it.
You helped me pick out theright cabinets and paint and
everything else, I should reallybe saying, casey, who in your
circle, professionally orpersonally, has also been
talking about remodeling theirkitchen, that would appreciate
and I love the word introductionto see if we can support them
the same way we supported you onthe remodel project.
(19:29):
The challenge is that we don'tget people talking about the
good and the bad and if we goback to people, buy from people.
I have to create thatcomfortable environment to get
you to say yes and then make youhappy, and then I should be
asking for more in a comfortableway, not a creepy.
Get a card in the mail and say,hey, refer your friends to me,
(19:50):
way creepy get a card in themail and say, hey, refer your
friends to me way.
The challenge that I find isthat most people haven't really
even defined sales well.
Society and media, specificallyTV and movies, paint a picture
of sales that's really icky.
If you think about moviesyou've seen or TV shows,
salespeople are generally pushyand manipulative and cheesy and
(20:14):
sleazy and things like that, andthat still exists and there's
unfortunately still a lot ofsales training that that's what
they help people think about.
But sales is really just theart of exchanging information
between people, changinginformation between people.
In our most recent book thatcame out, which is actually
(20:35):
titled how to Sell to the ModernBuyer you can get it on Amazon,
kindle, all the differentplaces that you buy books.
But one of the things that wetalk about in there is that the
definition of sales today, inthe modern selling world, is a
conversation between adults.
To get to the truth, now, thatcould be hey, do you even need a
quote on your insurance, or areyou just thinking you need a
(20:58):
quote on insurance because yougot a piece of paper yesterday
saying insurance is tripling, orwhatever the business is, and
what tends to happen is that we,as buyers or potential buyers,
don't even bat an eye at lyingto people that we think are
trying to sell us something, butwe don't do it in other circles
.
So if we reframe what buyingand selling is to a conversation
(21:24):
between adults to get to thetruth which, by the way, also
fits in our personal lives anawful lot.
Because a question that I liketo ask people is what percentage
of time do people tell you thetruth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth at work?
By the way, nobody answers 100%to that.
And then I ask them the samething at home and for people
that have a significant other orkids or siblings or parents,
(21:46):
that answer is never 100%.
So we have to change our sideof it, because we can't change
other people.
So when someone calls up andsays something like hey, can you
come give me an estimate, weneed to approach that with a
little bit of skepticism.
Not that they're probably lyingto us, but we really owe it to
them to ask really goodquestions.
(22:06):
Is that really what they need,or is that what they think they
need?
I referenced landscaping earlierbecause it's one of the
industries that it's so easy toget sucked into what we like to
call unpaid consulting.
Unpaid consulting is doing workdoing an estimate, a quote, bid
proposal, maybe samples, a demowithout knowing what's going to
(22:27):
happen.
So if I'm a landscaper, I cometo your house, I give you ideas
and an estimate and I have noidea whether you're going to say
yes or no or not.
That's really unpaid consulting.
And I have no idea whetheryou're going to say yes or no or
not, that's really unpaidconsulting.
If I've already got arelationship with you and I know
that you're going to say yes,you just need the design and the
numbers to put it in yourbudget.
That's a very differentconversation.
(22:48):
We can't change the other person.
We can only change ourselves.
So it really boils down to dowe know why people say yes to us
and why they say no to us.
That sounds crazy simple, butmost people don't.
So when people engage ourservices, we really help them
(23:09):
dig into why do you get yesesand why do you get noes and how
do you change that dynamic.
Because we can't change theother person in the equation.
We can't change the people thatcall us.
We can't change how they askquestions or if they come into
our store or whatever thebusiness is.
We can only change ourselves.
And the easiest way to changethat dynamic is to start with
gathering information versusdispensing it.
Traditional sales works likethis hey, mike, do you guys have
(23:33):
this?
We sure do.
Let me tell you all about it.
And people go into a what welike to call a feature and
benefit dump.
Oh, you know whatever that is,and it can be around our whole
business.
We've been in business for 75years and we're awesome and let
me tell you all the reasons andbecause trust, in a way, is
people back away from thatfaster than ever because they're
like, ooh, if the first 10seconds was uncomfortable,
(23:54):
what's the next 10 minutes or 10days or 10 weeks of working
with them going to be like?
But when we can change ourapproach to say, hey, I'm more
than happy to visit with you.
Let me start with a couple ofquestions, and that sounds crazy
simple, but psychology willtell us that most of us, our
entire lives, we've beenconditioned to answer questions,
(24:14):
not ask them.
If we don't have 100% clarityon why people say yes or why
people say no, we should nothire salespeople yet, because
how do I even know what I needto condition them to do so?
Once I know why people say yesor why people say no, then I can
really look at a sales growthplan, whether it involves me,
(24:37):
whether it involves people onour team, whether it involves
new people, new sales people,maybe new sales leaders.
Because if I have clarity onwhy we win and why we lose and
how I can pivot that, now I canfigure out the type of people
that I want.
I will share with you that oneof the greatest mistakes I see
people making is they hire tooearly because they don't have
(24:57):
those things figured out.
And then they're frustratedbecause the owner's been doing
it, because they're passionateabout it.
They started the business fiveyears ago and they've been the
only salesperson.
They're like oh, if I couldjust find somebody else to sell,
we'd get way better.
And maybe their close ratiomeaning the amount of calls they
go on versus the sales they getis 60 or 70 percent.
(25:18):
And they hire somebody and thatgoes down to 30 percent and the
owner's pissed off becausethey're like all you do is sales
and you're selling way less.
And I had to do sales and andand and and.
And.
That's generally because wedon't have why people buy from
us or not, and then a system tofollow to get to more of that.
(25:38):
I always encourage people tothink about it this way.
Sales is not about tips andtricks.
Sales is about habits andconditioned responses.
Why should I buy from you If Idon't have a good answer for
that?
That continues conversations.
I'm actually pushing peopleaway right up front.
And so if I don't have answersto things like how do I respond
(26:03):
to this, I can't even conditionsomebody that I hire to be able
to do that next.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
What other things do business owners need to know
about how to sell to the modernbuyer?
Other things?
Speaker 1 (26:16):
do business owners need to know about how to sell
to the modern buyer.
So everything really boils downto that trust and waste.
How do, in my business, myindustry, my geography I really
go about building trust andeliminating waste for that?
And then how do I make surethat I'm figuring out ways to
(26:38):
streamline my processes?
Almost all exchange ofinformation and sales is asking
questions of each other, and ifI'm not asking more questions
than the people that might wantto buy from me, I'm leaving
opportunity on the table.
And yes, there's always thelogistical things like name,
address, whatever, depending onthe businesses.
But what's more important is thepsychology questions like Casey
(27:00):
, have you ever had to hire alandscaper for your house before
?
There's only two answers tothat question yes, I have.
No, I haven't.
If you have, I'm going to askyou different follow-up
questions.
If you haven't, my approachchanges an awful lot because you
don't even have a benchmark inhow to buy what I sell.
Again, just using landscape asan example, and it seems like
(27:23):
such a simple question to sayhave you ever bought this before
?
Have you ever hired someonelike this before?
But I will tell you, almostnobody asks that questions
unless they're working withsomebody like us because it's
not their conditioned response.
Most people's conditionedresponse is to talk hey, can you
(27:43):
come up and give me a quote onlandscaping, sure, can?
I?
Can be there Tuesday at 2.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And don't ask any questions.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
There's a rule that's out of one of the early books
in the Sandler Library it'scalled the Sandler Rules of one
of the early books in theSandler library is called the
Sandler rules and there's a rulein there that says your value
as a sales professional isdetermined by the information
you gather, not the informationyou dispense.
Sounds crazy simple, but if I'mthe business owner, if I
(28:12):
figured that out and if I'mgoing to hire people, have I
helped them figure out whatinformation they need to gather
besides name and address?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So, Mike, for anyone listening today who might want
to connect with Sandler offline,get to know you a little bit
more.
What's the best way to connect?
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, so I'm guessing that you put some of this stuff
in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I'll have lots of links.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
So the easiest way to always start a conversation
with us is the guest pass formand I'll get that to you so you
can put that in the show notes,because if somebody fills that
out, it allows us to start aconversation, to figure out, hey
, what's going on in yourbusiness and let's figure out
what sessions.
And one of the things that's aninteresting byproduct of the
(28:53):
post-covid world is that all ofthe things we deliver publicly,
now we deliver blended room andZoom simultaneously.
So whether you're here in Metro, oklahoma City or Central
Oklahoma and you want to come inperson, or whether you're a
little bit farther away and youwant to join on Zoom, we can do
that.
The other ways that are good toconnect with me is to follow or
connect on all of our socialmedia.
I'll make sure that our companyand my personal social media is
(29:16):
in all of those things.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Perfect.
That sounds great.
Mike.
Thank you so much for beinghere today and chatting about
how to sell to the modern buyerFor anybody listening today.
If you've got questions aboutwhat Mike talked about, feel
free to leave them down belowand maybe we'll do a follow-up
episode.
We're looking at filming for2025 and what that might look
like.
I'm sure we have lots of thingsthat we can talk about to help
(29:42):
businesses set up for successnext year.
Thank you so much for listening.
We look forward to seeing youin the next episode.
Bye, friends.
We really have to think about what do other people
value and what do we value, andhow do we start to communicate
and make decisions differentlyfrom that?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey friends and welcome back to the Build With
BBB podcast.
I'm your host, casey Farmer,here with longtime friend and
community member Mike Crandallof Sandler Training, oklahoma.
Today we're going to be talkingabout how to sell to the modern
buyer and I think this issomething a lot of our small
businesses might be interestedto know as you prep for 2025
what that looks like, howSandler Training of Oklahoma
(00:41):
might be able to give you a handin that and provide some
resources.
So welcome to the podcast, mikeHappy to have you.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
So, casey, I'm so excited to be on your podcast.
You and I have known each otherfor a long time.
We've been involved with theBBB for a long time, so when you
reached out and said, hey, we'dlove to have you on the podcast
, I don't know that I could sayyes fast enough, so super
excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, I will say coming to BBB, joining the team
full-time Sandler Training ofOklahoma was one of the very
first kind of organizations andgroups that I was introduced to.
I think I attended something onsmall business marketing and I
got to meet some smallbusinesses for the first time.
And yeah, you do a lot of greatwork in the community and we're
thankful for you.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, so tell us about Sandler Training of
Oklahoma first.
I think that's a pretty easyjumping off point in what you do
and how you help businesses.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, so our organization really focuses on
three functional areas in anorganization leadership,
management and sales.
Most of our clients come to usbecause they have growth
objectives that they have notyet been able to reach.
That could be in revenue, thatcould be an employee account,
that could be in locations, thatcould be in work-life balance.
(01:49):
But most of those businessowners, or most of our clients,
are small to medium-sizedbusiness owners that come to us
because they know that they'renot experts in growing business.
They're experts in whatevertheir business is.
They're experts in remodelingor landscaping or marketing
whatever their business is.
We're experts in growingbusiness.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
That's wonderful.
So when you are working withthe businesses, is there a size
parameter that you really try togo for, like one to five
employees, five to ten?
Who is your ideal client?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, so it's a great question.
So our range of clients thatare on some type of retainer
with us right now ranges fromindividual solopreneurs up to a
couple thousand employees, butthe vast majority of our clients
are usually between about threeto five employees on the low
end and about 50 to 70 employeeson the high end.
(02:41):
That's really the sweet spotthat the majority of our clients
fall into.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
So for anybody listening today, if a business
said, hey, some of thoseproblems that Mike mentioned, I
think I need some help with thatin my business, what does that
look like in terms of aconsultation with Sandler
Training?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, so that's a great question.
So one of the things that Ifind is that most people have
never actually bought outsidebusiness guidance like ours, and
so a lot of times, evenfiguring out what does that look
like, how does that work, is achallenge.
So it's also unfortunate thatit's really easy to spend money
on coaching, consulting,training, outside services that
(03:16):
aren't any good.
So I always say that we take anapproach kind of like buying
something big.
Very few people would buy a carwithout a test drive.
Very few people would buy ahouse without walking through it
and checking it out.
So the very first step in ourprocess is people just joining
one of our public sessions as aguest.
We've always got a guest passand I'll give you the link if
(03:37):
you want to put that in the shownotes where people can join.
We've got a webpage built.
That's just how do you fill outor how do you join us as a
guest.
It's a quick form to fill outand then somebody from our team
will visit with them and figureout what's coming up on the
calendar that fits you best.
After that, if you decide that,hey, this is the type of thing
that could really support ourbusiness, where we're at and
(03:59):
where we're going.
Then we typically scheduleabout a one hour meeting to
determine what steps make themost sense next, based on size,
based on growth objectives,based on potential investment
options and things like that.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So you kind of mentioned it in your explanation
of where businesses are.
But I often see smallbusinesses will bring in an
outside person to do some kindof contract work with whether
it's marketer, they're helpingwith sales or whatever it is and
they kind of get burned.
What are some things thatbusinesses can do to avoid that
up front?
You mentioned that you've kindof got this free offering, but
(04:36):
what questions should they beasking?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
things that I always encourage people to do, if
they're going to bring inoutside services whether that's
helping with leadership,management, sales, marketing,
even bringing an outsourcedbookkeeper, whatever that might
be is figure out some way tohave, for lack of better terms,
a trial period, whether that's aguest pass, whether that's hey,
we're going to do step one andsee if we like each other before
(05:04):
we agree to step two, seven,nine, whatever those other
things are.
I know it sounds crazy simple,but a lot of times people jump
in and they don't even thinkabout what does that look like?
And I'll elaborate on that.
I've had a lot of people thathave signed multi-year
agreements to do work withsomebody and they got a couple
months in and they realized that, hey, this isn't what I really
(05:25):
thought it was going to be, andI know a few people have even
gotten some litigationchallenges because they tried to
break up with a marketingpartner or they tried to break
up with somebody.
Before you jump into thatlonger thing, there should
always be something that's, forlack of better terms, a test
drive to figure out is it evengoing to line up with what we're
thinking about or focused on?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, super helpful, thank you.
So let's get into the meat ofthis episode.
The reason I had reached out iswe have had, over the past,
just a lot of small businessessay I need help with sales, or I
need to figure out how tostreamline my sales, or I need
to know how to hire asalesperson.
And you have this wonderfultraining program where you talk
about how do we sell to themodern buyer Because there are
that's a lot right.
It's not just in one way thatpeople are looking to connect
with small businesses.
(06:09):
So tell me a little bit aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah Well, casey, if it's okay with you, I'm going to
back up a little bit and kindof share some of the things that
we see that it really led to myentire life and you know I
speak all over, I coach, Iconsult, I train and you know I
speak all over, I coach, Iconsult, I train, I'm a
published author and gives methe opportunity to have a really
good filter to processinformation through.
And for a very long time in mylife I've had people tell me
(06:32):
that I've got this unique giftof taking things that can be
somewhat complex and simplifyingthem.
And about 10 to 12 years ago Iwas speaking at an event and one
of the points that I brought upis that the business only has
three parts.
It doesn't matter what yourindustry is, what your business
is, size, complexity, for-profit, not-for-profit.
There's only three parts to anybusiness.
(06:53):
There's selling, whatever it isyour business does, selling
your products, selling yourservices.
Then there's the delivery ofthat and so delivering whatever
it is that you sold yourproducts, your services, and
then there's the backendoperations and admin.
So if you're a landscapecompany, you have to sell the
landscape and then you have todeliver and install the
landscape, and then you stillhave to do the bookwork and
(07:14):
paperwork and all the legalstuff to stay in compliance.
And so if you think aboutbusinesses selling, delivering,
and then the backend operationsand admin it's a good way to
dissect this.
And if we look at what a lot oftimes people will call the
post-COVID world, because we'rea couple of years past when
COVID started now things havechanged pretty substantially on
(07:37):
lots of different levels andCOVID didn't cause those changes
.
What happened is that COVIDexposed those changes or
accelerated those changes.
And if you look at those threeparts to a business selling,
delivering, and then theback-end operations and admin
the one that was impacted themost by things that have
happened since COVID started issales.
(07:59):
Because if I'm installinglandscaping, I'm still
installing it the same way, I'mstill using the same equipment,
the same shovels, the samepeople, et cetera.
I'm still doing bookkeeping thesame way, I'm still processing
payroll the same way, but salesgetting in front of people
getting their attention, gettingthem to say yes and agree to do
business with you, hasfundamentally changed, and it
(08:22):
really boils down to two bigthings.
We like to say that the twobiggest things that have
impacted that are trust andwaste.
If you think about what'shappened the last couple of
years and you're in charge ofthe marketing here, so you're
well versed on this is that wedistrust at the highest level
ever so.
Trust is at the lowest levelever so we mean.
(08:44):
But the desire for trustedrelationships is also at an
all-time high, and a uniquething happened at the beginning
of COVID, where we really didn'ttrust big information.
We trusted what somebody nextto us said or somebody that we
already had a relationship with.
That's why organizations likethe BBB have become so important
(09:07):
is that you guys have alwaysbeen grounded in trust for all
of the decades that BBB hasexisted.
So your members reach out andsay, hey, who should I trust to
do fill in the blank?
And the community reaches outbecause obviously individuals
are generally not members of theBBB.
If you take and you put that ina bigger picture we we want
(09:30):
someone to trust, but we don'tknow who to trust.
We're more suspicious andskeptical than we've ever been,
and what's really happened isthat we've been conditioned lots
of things over the last coupleof years to not believe anything
we see unless it comes fromsomebody that we already trust
and believe.
(09:50):
So, just because I saw aFacebook ad, if it didn't come
or it wasn't shared with me bysomebody that I know and trust,
I probably rejected it evenquicker, whether that's a radio
commercial or TV commercial orbillboard or whatever it is
what's happened, especially inthe smaller businesses.
It means that we have to beeven more discerning in the
(10:11):
activities that we have that areputting us out there, because
are they helping us build trustor are they maybe taking
resources that are actuallycosting us?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
In what ways do you see small businesses make those
mistakes in terms of hey, that'snot really helping your
trustworthy reputation.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It's interesting, almost everybody, at least in
our society, was raised withsomething along the lines from
our parents or whoever raised us.
Hey, if someone starts withtrust me, run the other way and
we all laugh and giggle and grin, just like you are right now.
But if you watch theadvertising that's happened by a
(10:52):
lot of organizations the lastcouple of years, things like an
organization you can trust ortrusted since 1976 are actually
higher than ever.
And I see people, especiallypeople that have advertising
spend spending more and more andmore to get less and less less
(11:12):
response because they're tryingto tell people to trust them
through media versusrelationships.
And I'll give you a goodexample.
I've got a client that they'vebeen in business for 60 plus
years and in 2020 was the firsttime we ever had them really
track cost per lead.
(11:33):
We didn't start working withthem until 2020, but it was a
statistic they'd never tracked.
So they went back and they wereable to look at 2019 and an
actual paid lead for them wasunder $100 in 2019.
In 2019.
In 2023, that was almost athousand dollars for a paid lead
(11:54):
and every time they went backto the person who was selling
them the marketing andadvertising to do that, they
said well, you just need tospend more.
And they realized that they wereactually spending themselves in
marketing and advertisingalmost out of business because
they were trying to build trustthrough electronic messaging
versus face-to-facerelationships.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
So that's something that your team does really well.
You often see Sandler trainingand you lead OKPSA.
So tell me why or how a smallbusiness owner can start getting
involved in the community in away to build that kind of trust.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Well, one of the things that we say and everybody
kind of knows this on somelevel and it's existed for a
long time, but I will tell youit's really kind of skyrocketed
is just the phrase people buyfrom people, especially if it's
something that's not a reallylow-priced commodity.
I might buy bottled watersimply on price at a warehouse
place or have it delivered to mybusiness, but when you get into
(12:51):
things like remodeling ormarketing or all the things
where you're going to have tohave more than one conversation
like send me three cases ofwater trust becomes more
important.
And what I find most smallbusinesses aren't doing well, or
need to not as well as theycould be, is figuring out how do
I get around people that willsay, hey, I trust you because.
(13:14):
And so being involved inorganizations, being involved in
the community, being involvedin places where people can get
to build a relationship with youor the people on your team,
becomes crucial.
And so if you're in a group,maybe it's the chamber.
Being part of the BBB or theOKPSA, which is the Oklahoma
Professional Sales Association,are all great examples of that,
(13:37):
because, as the member of lotsof different things, I get asked
questions like this Mike, hey,which member does fill in the
blank?
And I know when I answer thatquestion that there's a really
high percentage chance the saleis already completed if there's
actually a business need there.
If there's not a business need,that's a different thing.
But going out and meetingpeople, getting involved where
(13:59):
people can go, hey, I know, fillin the blank, name a person and
that takes that people buy frompeople thing to a whole nother
level than one other ad that'sin your Facebook ads.
That gets drowned out bysomebody that's always going to
be able to outspend you.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
You mentioned the other thing that you see most
often is waste.
Let's go down that line.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, so it's an interesting dynamic.
So we are in a world where it'seasier to waste time, energy
and money now than ever, butpeople want to waste time,
energy and money less than ever.
And so when you start to thinkabout it and back to the example
of maybe some advertising I'mnot saying all advertising is
bad, but it's easy to wastemoney and not get the results
(14:41):
that you want.
So if I'm not careful, I'mwasting more.
And so here's a good examplewhen it comes to people, buy
from people and waste.
If you really need an hour tomeasure and take pictures, to
put together an estimate for meto do something at my house.
I know a lot of BBB memberssell to homeowners, construction
services etc.
The challenge is that if Idon't see value in that up front
(15:04):
as the potential consumer, Iautomatically think that that
hour is a waste.
I automatically think that thathour is a waste.
So the salesperson, thebusiness owner, has to figure
out how do I do a good job upfront of painting the picture of
why that hour is so important?
Otherwise we may have alreadylost right up front, because if
(15:33):
I'm a consumer and I'm lookingat it that this hour might be a
waste of my time.
Why would I want to even putthat hour on my calendar?
And so when you start to breakit into time, energy, money and
waste, we really have to thinkabout what do other people value
and what do we value, and howdo we start to communicate and
make decisions differently fromthat what's the first step a
business can do in identifyingthose things?
yeah.
So a good thing that Iencourage people to do is really
think about do you have areally good handle on why people
(15:57):
have said yes to you in thelast two years?
And I will tell you, one of thefirst exercises when people do
something with us beyond just astandalone workshop or bootcamp
is that we will frequently havethem do a best fit client
exercise.
And this is usually with theownership team because it needs
to be research coming from, notthe sales person, especially if
(16:19):
it's an organization that hassalespeople and owner.
But we always encourage them totake out a blank sheet of paper
Word document, excel document,it really doesn't matter.
Think about the pieces ofbusiness that you have sold in
the last year to two years thatyou consider your best fit
Doesn't mean biggest, doesn'teven mean most profitable, but
the jobs you enjoyed having theclients that you enjoyed working
(16:42):
with, the people that were nota pain in the, whatever you want
to say, and then really gothrough an exercise to say how
did we get in front of them?
Was it word of mouth?
Was it a Facebook ad?
Was it something else?
Because most people reallydon't have a good handle on that
.
But then, more importantly andthis is an ownership exercise
(17:05):
making a phone call to saythings like hey, casey, we
really appreciate the businessand so glad that you hired us.
Can I ask you a couple questions?
So, first and foremost, ournotes show that you came to us
because your friend Stevethought we were a good fit for
you.
Is that accurate, or did youhear about us from someplace
else?
I'm going to get real good inforeal quick.
And the second thing is, casey,what made it comfortable enough
(17:27):
for you to agree to the actualmeeting where we sat down and
visited?
And then, casey, I'm curiousdid you automatically know you
were going to buy from us or didyou call and get information
and pricing from several otherpeople?
And if you did, what made youdecide on us versus one of those
(17:48):
other organizations or people?
Now, that sounds crazy simple,but most people really don't
know.
And what I find happens sofrequently is that people
haven't even dug in to figureout.
How did people find us, reallyfind us, not just what box got
checked in the database.
And then why did they say yes?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So, after the business owner takes their time
to ask those questions and thenthey just file it away in a box
and don't do anything with it,what's that next step that they
need to be doing with thatinformation from their ideal
client or repeat customer?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, so one of the things that we always encourage
people to do is to take thatdata.
If they're clients of ours,we're going to help them use
that data to figure out how dowe refine our process.
One of the things that mostorganizations are really not
good at is simply asking forintroductions.
If you hired me to do somethingand you were happy, I kind of
(18:45):
almost owe it to you to say, hey, who else has similar
challenges or problems or thingsthat they want?
And when people do it, a lot ofpeople don't do it.
When they do it, they tend tomake it awkward and
uncomfortable.
Hey, casey, you got anyreferrals for me, by the way,
nobody likes that.
It's awkward for both sides.
But if you just told me that,hey, you know that kitchen
(19:06):
remodel we did was awesome andyou know I love everything about
it.
You helped me pick out theright cabinets and paint and
everything else, I should reallybe saying, casey, who in your
circle, professionally orpersonally, has also been
talking about remodeling theirkitchen, that would appreciate
and I love the word introductionto see if we can support them
the same way we supported you onthe remodel project.
(19:29):
The challenge is that we don'tget people talking about the
good and the bad and if we goback to people, buy from people.
I have to create thatcomfortable environment to get
you to say yes and then make youhappy, and then I should be
asking for more in a comfortableway, not a creepy.
Get a card in the mail and say,hey, refer your friends to me,
(19:50):
way creepy get a card in themail and say, hey, refer your
friends to me way.
The challenge that I find isthat most people haven't really
even defined sales well.
Society and media, specificallyTV and movies, paint a picture
of sales that's really icky.
If you think about moviesyou've seen or TV shows,
salespeople are generally pushyand manipulative and cheesy and
(20:14):
sleazy and things like that, andthat still exists and there's
unfortunately still a lot ofsales training that that's what
they help people think about.
But sales is really just theart of exchanging information
between people, changinginformation between people.
In our most recent book thatcame out, which is actually
(20:35):
titled how to Sell to the ModernBuyer you can get it on Amazon,
kindle, all the differentplaces that you buy books.
But one of the things that wetalk about in there is that the
definition of sales today, inthe modern selling world, is a
conversation between adults.
To get to the truth, now, thatcould be hey, do you even need a
quote on your insurance, or areyou just thinking you need a
(20:58):
quote on insurance because yougot a piece of paper yesterday
saying insurance is tripling, orwhatever the business is, and
what tends to happen is that we,as buyers or potential buyers,
don't even bat an eye at lyingto people that we think are
trying to sell us something, butwe don't do it in other circles
.
So if we reframe what buyingand selling is to a conversation
(21:24):
between adults to get to thetruth which, by the way, also
fits in our personal lives anawful lot.
Because a question that I liketo ask people is what percentage
of time do people tell you thetruth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth at work?
By the way, nobody answers 100%to that.
And then I ask them the samething at home and for people
that have a significant other orkids or siblings or parents,
(21:46):
that answer is never 100%.
So we have to change our sideof it, because we can't change
other people.
So when someone calls up andsays something like hey, can you
come give me an estimate, weneed to approach that with a
little bit of skepticism.
Not that they're probably lyingto us, but we really owe it to
them to ask really goodquestions.
(22:06):
Is that really what they need,or is that what they think they
need?
I referenced landscaping earlierbecause it's one of the
industries that it's so easy toget sucked into what we like to
call unpaid consulting.
Unpaid consulting is doing workdoing an estimate, a quote, bid
proposal, maybe samples, a demowithout knowing what's going to
(22:27):
happen.
So if I'm a landscaper, I cometo your house, I give you ideas
and an estimate and I have noidea whether you're going to say
yes or no or not.
That's really unpaid consulting.
And I have no idea whetheryou're going to say yes or no or
not, that's really unpaidconsulting.
If I've already got arelationship with you and I know
that you're going to say yes,you just need the design and the
numbers to put it in yourbudget.
That's a very differentconversation.
(22:48):
We can't change the other person.
We can only change ourselves.
So it really boils down to dowe know why people say yes to us
and why they say no to us.
That sounds crazy simple, butmost people don't.
So when people engage ourservices, we really help them
(23:09):
dig into why do you get yesesand why do you get noes and how
do you change that dynamic.
Because we can't change theother person in the equation.
We can't change the people thatcall us.
We can't change how they askquestions or if they come into
our store or whatever thebusiness is.
We can only change ourselves.
And the easiest way to changethat dynamic is to start with
gathering information versusdispensing it.
Traditional sales works likethis hey, mike, do you guys have
(23:33):
this?
We sure do.
Let me tell you all about it.
And people go into a what welike to call a feature and
benefit dump.
Oh, you know whatever that is,and it can be around our whole
business.
We've been in business for 75years and we're awesome and let
me tell you all the reasons andbecause trust, in a way, is
people back away from thatfaster than ever because they're
like, ooh, if the first 10seconds was uncomfortable,
(23:54):
what's the next 10 minutes or 10days or 10 weeks of working
with them going to be like?
But when we can change ourapproach to say, hey, I'm more
than happy to visit with you.
Let me start with a couple ofquestions, and that sounds crazy
simple, but psychology willtell us that most of us, our
entire lives, we've beenconditioned to answer questions,
(24:14):
not ask them.
If we don't have 100% clarityon why people say yes or why
people say no, we should nothire salespeople yet, because
how do I even know what I needto condition them to do so?
Once I know why people say yesor why people say no, then I can
really look at a sales growthplan, whether it involves me,
(24:37):
whether it involves people onour team, whether it involves
new people, new sales people,maybe new sales leaders.
Because if I have clarity onwhy we win and why we lose and
how I can pivot that, now I canfigure out the type of people
that I want.
I will share with you that oneof the greatest mistakes I see
people making is they hire tooearly because they don't have
(24:57):
those things figured out.
And then they're frustratedbecause the owner's been doing
it, because they're passionateabout it.
They started the business fiveyears ago and they've been the
only salesperson.
They're like oh, if I couldjust find somebody else to sell,
we'd get way better.
And maybe their close ratiomeaning the amount of calls they
go on versus the sales they getis 60 or 70 percent.
(25:18):
And they hire somebody and thatgoes down to 30 percent and the
owner's pissed off becausethey're like all you do is sales
and you're selling way less.
And I had to do sales and andand and and.
And.
That's generally because wedon't have why people buy from
us or not, and then a system tofollow to get to more of that.
(25:38):
I always encourage people tothink about it this way.
Sales is not about tips andtricks.
Sales is about habits andconditioned responses.
Why should I buy from you If Idon't have a good answer for
that?
That continues conversations.
I'm actually pushing peopleaway right up front.
And so if I don't have answersto things like how do I respond
(26:03):
to this, I can't even conditionsomebody that I hire to be able
to do that next.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
What other things do business owners need to know
about how to sell to the modernbuyer?
Other things?
Speaker 1 (26:16):
do business owners need to know about how to sell
to the modern buyer.
So everything really boils downto that trust and waste.
How do, in my business, myindustry, my geography I really
go about building trust andeliminating waste for that?
And then how do I make surethat I'm figuring out ways to
(26:38):
streamline my processes?
Almost all exchange ofinformation and sales is asking
questions of each other, and ifI'm not asking more questions
than the people that might wantto buy from me, I'm leaving
opportunity on the table.
And yes, there's always thelogistical things like name,
address, whatever, depending onthe businesses.
But what's more important is thepsychology questions like Casey
(27:00):
, have you ever had to hire alandscaper for your house before
?
There's only two answers tothat question yes, I have.
No, I haven't.
If you have, I'm going to askyou different follow-up
questions.
If you haven't, my approachchanges an awful lot because you
don't even have a benchmark inhow to buy what I sell.
Again, just using landscape asan example, and it seems like
(27:23):
such a simple question to sayhave you ever bought this before
?
Have you ever hired someonelike this before?
But I will tell you, almostnobody asks that questions
unless they're working withsomebody like us because it's
not their conditioned response.
Most people's conditionedresponse is to talk hey, can you
(27:43):
come up and give me a quote onlandscaping, sure, can?
I?
Can be there Tuesday at 2.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And don't ask any questions.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
There's a rule that's out of one of the early books
in the Sandler Library it'scalled the Sandler Rules of one
of the early books in theSandler library is called the
Sandler rules and there's a rulein there that says your value
as a sales professional isdetermined by the information
you gather, not the informationyou dispense.
Sounds crazy simple, but if I'mthe business owner, if I
(28:12):
figured that out and if I'mgoing to hire people, have I
helped them figure out whatinformation they need to gather
besides name and address?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So, Mike, for anyone listening today who might want
to connect with Sandler offline,get to know you a little bit
more.
What's the best way to connect?
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, so I'm guessing that you put some of this stuff
in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I'll have lots of links.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
So the easiest way to always start a conversation
with us is the guest pass formand I'll get that to you so you
can put that in the show notes,because if somebody fills that
out, it allows us to start aconversation, to figure out, hey
, what's going on in yourbusiness and let's figure out
what sessions.
And one of the things that's aninteresting byproduct of the
(28:53):
post-covid world is that all ofthe things we deliver publicly,
now we deliver blended room andZoom simultaneously.
So whether you're here in Metro, oklahoma City or Central
Oklahoma and you want to come inperson, or whether you're a
little bit farther away and youwant to join on Zoom, we can do
that.
The other ways that are good toconnect with me is to follow or
connect on all of our socialmedia.
I'll make sure that our companyand my personal social media is
(29:16):
in all of those things.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Perfect.
That sounds great.
Mike.
Thank you so much for beinghere today and chatting about
how to sell to the modern buyerFor anybody listening today.
If you've got questions aboutwhat Mike talked about, feel
free to leave them down belowand maybe we'll do a follow-up
episode.
We're looking at filming for2025 and what that might look
like.
I'm sure we have lots of thingsthat we can talk about to help
(29:42):
businesses set up for successnext year.
Thank you so much for listening.
We look forward to seeing youin the next episode.
Bye, friends.
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