September 30, 2025 • 36 mins
Operations pro Angie Aki joins Reece to demystify payroll tax savings, W-2 vs 1099 trade-offs, benefits that actually help retention, and the liability/insurance pieces builders overlook. We finish with a simple action plan—clean AR, right retirement setup, and a smarter way to pay yourself.
Show Notes:
0:00 Welcome and who’s Angie
4:25 From “Go Ask Angie” to operations pro
5:54 Payroll taxes and benefits most builders miss
6:49 W-2 vs 1099: true costs and risks
19:02 Liability, audits, and paper trails
21:13 Culture beats chaos when you grow
23:41 Retirement options for small builders
28:10 Insurance you can’t skip
29:40 Owner pay, draws, and clean books
30:06 Quick wins to implement this month
31:36 How to reach Angie + wrap
Find Our Hosts:
Reece Barnes
Matt Calvano
Podcast Produced By:
Motif Media
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to builders budgets andbeers. I'm Rhys Barnes and I
(00:04):
started this podcast to havereal conversations about money
in the building industry, thewins, the mistakes and
everything in between. I believebuilders deserve to feel
confident about their finances,and that starts by hearing from
others who've been through ittoo. This industry can be slow
to change, but the right storiesand the right tools can make
profitability feel possible.
Let's get into it.
(00:34):
G mics are hot. We're ready torumble All right. Um, let's do
it. Yes, let's do it. Let's jumpin. I'm super stoked to have you
on the podcast. Thank you forjoining. Thank you. I always
like to give the listeners alittle or have the guest rather
give themselves a little bit ofa background so listeners know
who they're who they're tuninginto. Do you want to let them
(00:55):
know who's talking and what yourbackground is?
Sure, absolutely. Thank you somuch for having me. It's a
pleasure and honor to be here.
My name is Angie a key. I run abusiness solutions concierge and
consulting company. So what thatmeans is I love to work with
business owners and help themkeep more of the money they
make. I am a believer, and whenyou put good money in good
(01:18):
people's hands, good thingshappen. So we all started our
businesses, you know, for ourfamilies or to build a legacy.
So the more money you can keep,put back into your family, put
back into your community, thebetter we all are. So that is,
that's my why. As far as why Istarted my business, I spent 18
years in corporate America andthen jumped into
(01:39):
entrepreneurship. So those 18years in corporate America, were
in business to business sales. Iwas in pharmaceutical sales for
16 years of that, and thenjumped out into real estate
investing, totally differentworld, and did wholesaling,
which was fun. So I got to workwith contractors hand in hand on
some flips. It's, it's, was notfor me. I realized after a
(02:03):
couple years I was doing reallywell, and I was like, but why do
I feel like I'm rolling aboulder up the hill every day?
And I realized that my my happyplace, is working with business
owners instead of consumers. SoI got back into the business to
business arena and startedworking with small businesses,
and I like saving people moneyand getting them to have keep
(02:25):
more money in their pocketlights me up, like it keeps me
going. It's like it's money inmy pocket, which it's not, but I
get that excited. So that's alittle bit about No,
I love it. I love it, okay? Andthat's super interesting. So I
mean pharmaceutical sales rep toflipper to business consultant,
no business coach. Is that fair?
(02:48):
Yeah, consultant and concierge.
I'm not go ahead, not coachingpeople how to run a business. I
am bringing solutions that willsave you money to you so you
don't have to worry aboutfinding
so I think that's that's a gooddelineation there for the
listener. So you started workingwith contractors when you were
flipping obviously. How did youland on being a concierge and
(03:11):
focusing on the work that you donow? Was that impacted? Did you
see an opportunity and maybetell them what you do
specifically from a conciergestandpoint?
Sure, gosh, how did it comeabout? I don't believe in
coincidences. I believe thatthings happen for a reason. I
somehow, through a real estateinvestor connection I made. This
(03:35):
is why I don't believe incoincidences, because through a
real estate investing connectionI made on Facebook. He connected
me with this opportunity, whichwas the employee retention
credit program. So I started, Iwas like, Oh, this is great. I
can, I can help businesses getmoney back, right? And so I
(03:56):
started working with businesses.
And that was my aha moment whereI was like, Oh my gosh, this is
what I missed. So as thathappened, then I started and
that program ended, I was like,Well, what else can I do? What
other valuable service can Iprovide to business owners? And
I started putting pieces of thepuzzle together. And I was at a
networking meeting, and I wastelling someone what I what I
(04:16):
did, and people always when theywant something, I network a lot.
I have a big network here. I'min Central Florida, and people
always go ask Angie. Go askAngie. Go ask Angie, right? And
so I was telling this gentlemanwhat I do, and he goes, Oh,
you're like, a businesssolutions concierge. So, like,
I'm going to you, and you'rehelping me figure out what I
(04:36):
need, or I'm quarterbacking waysthat you can save money or keep
more of the money. Love it. AndI say that because it is happily
college football season.
Yes, yes, I love it. Okay, sonow specifically so you're just
like, you're you're bringing onclients or prospects, and you're
(04:57):
understanding, like, what theirbig challenges are. And. You are
directing them into solution.
Where do you spend the majorityof your time? Like, where you
keep mentioning, like, savingmoney, providing concierge
service? Like, where is the bigopportunity? And like, what are
you what are you directingbuilders into?
Yep, so I spend a large, largemajority of my time with payment
(05:20):
process. So there are a lot ofways that you can save money
within payment processing,whether it be looking at dual
pricing or I know a lot ofpeople like to process within
their accounting software. Sothat may or may not be the best
fit. There are a lot of waysthat you can do it and save a
(05:40):
lot of money. So I spent a lotof my time there, and then I
spent a lot of my time alsowithin health management plans,
which is not Group Health. Ifeel like I should just have a T
shirt that says it's not GroupHealth. It's not major medical
it is a it is a way to save andpayroll taxes. So when you look
at payroll tax savings. You'reif you have w2 employees,
(06:02):
they're really costly. You needthem, and they're wonderful, and
you want to take care of them,but they're really expensive. So
there are a few ways you cansave a payroll taxes, and I
believe that I have one of thebest ways to do so with some
great benefits. So that's whereI spend those two is where I
spend the vast majority of mytime. I also work with
Affordable Legal benefits andaccounts receivable. And then I
(06:26):
did stuff recently with the VisaMasterCard settlement. Very
cool. And then there are somemore settlements coming up, so
I'm vetting stuff that's outthere as an opportunity and then
proactively bringing it toclients that I'm
working with. Understood,beautiful. Let's talk about the
payroll tax conversation. Like,what like with w2 employees?
(06:46):
Because I know we certainlyhave, you know, a lot of
builders out there, they do w2employees. Some of them do 1099,
like, talk to me a little aboutwhat you see in the market from
a payroll tax savings, missedopportunities. Go from there.
There are a lot of missedopportunities I will I will tell
you I work really closely withCPAs and accountants, and a lot
(07:10):
of what I do is education. And Ihad a conversation last week
with a CPA, and it was a reallyinteresting conversation. This
wasn't with a constructionclient, but it was a client, and
she basically had advised themagainst one of the services I
provide. I don't get it. I don'tunderstand. Can you get me in
front of her? And she waswilling to meet, and after we
(07:33):
met, she said, Oh my gosh, thisisn't what I thought it was. Of
course they should do this. Thisis a no brainer, and so so much
of it is education and providingright so people look to their
CPAs and accountants andfinancial planners for advice.
But there's, there's only somuch right education you can
absorb and information that youhave. And so with a payroll tax
(07:57):
savings plan or a healthmanagement plan as an employer,
you can save between $600 and$1,000 per employee per year,
okay, plus your employee hasmore take home pay, so everyone
is net positive when you put oneof these plans into place, and
there is a minimal schedule ofbenefits that goes along with
(08:19):
it, and depending on thecarrier, potentially some
indemnity components as well. Soyou're you're providing some and
whether or not you have majormedical or not, that's great,
and this can work alongside ofit, but you're providing either
additional benefits or benefitsif you don't think that you can
afford them at all. And you aresaving, excuse me, in payroll
(08:40):
taxes, and your employees aresaving in payroll taxes. So
it's, I believe, one of thebiggest missed opportunities for
savings within organizations.
Okay, so, no, it's a lot tough.
Yeah, I'm kind of so I'm this isjust like, not my world. And
honestly, I feel like this thatmight be the case with, like, a
lot of listeners, listeners,small business owners,
(09:02):
especially since you're saying,like, this is a huge, commonly
missed opportunity, like, Iguess, like, my first question
is, why isn't this the standard?
Like, this kind of just seemslike it's a very like, easy no
brainer. Like, you could besaving $1,000 a year on payroll
taxes per employee. Employeesare making more money, like, I
(09:25):
guess. Why isn't that thenormal?
Well, it's like anything inlife, you have to have people to
go out and communicate it,right? So the distribution,
which is, which is part of whatI'm doing, right? So you need
people out there talking aboutit. You need, you know, I
partner with a lot of people tohelp leverage so that I can get
more information out and reachmore people. So I work with
(09:48):
payroll reps. I work with CPAsand accountants, you know, I
work with HR people to help getthe word out. I work with
fractional CFOs to say, hey,here's a way. Because. Someone
has to bring this to to theclient, right to the business
owner, whether it's myself orone of my strategic partners,
(10:08):
and we have to sit down and walkthrough it with them. It's not
something to be very candid.
It's not something that peopleare like, Oh, I immediately get
it right away. We have to gothrough it. We have to go
through how the money flows, andyou really, you have to
understand it. So it takes alittle bit of explaining. So
it's not something that's justlike, right? Oh, I totally get
it. It takes a little bit ofexplaining. And I think that's
(10:32):
why it hasn't more people don'tknow about it. Also, who is
really think about it. Who'sspecializing in payroll tax
savings, your CPAs andaccountants are really looking
at income tax Right? Like,that's their right, or sales tax
and whatnot. And then you have,you know, your payroll, people
are selling payroll, so they'refiling your, you know, they're
(10:55):
filing your quarterly taxreturns there for payroll. But,
like, who is looking at payrolltax savings?
No, Angie, I am. Yeah, I am. Andit's, it's, it is. So it's so
cool.
You know, when you look at abusiness, you know? And I looked
(11:16):
at a business owner the otherday, 12 employees, you're going
to save $9,000 a year. Yeah.
Then I look at a different adifferent employer. There's
multiple locations, you're gonnasave $359,000 a year. What?
Right? So, right, it's insane.
It's mine, 60 Yes.
(11:37):
And is right out of like orimpacts the bottom line,
yes, and they have hundreds andhundreds of employees. How many,
obviously, right? There are alittle over 400
Okay, so that's, this is a bigshop, but still, it's a, it's a
big right? They have multiplelocations, but still. But then
think about, and I tell peoplethis all the time, it's
(11:58):
typically the smaller businessesthat are like, Oh my gosh. This
is like, this is so impactful.
I'm working with a restaurant. Iknow we're we're speaking to
contractors and trade. So bearwith me. It's just an example.
But you know, she's going tosave over $25,000 a year. And I
thought she was going to startcrying. She was like, Oh my
(12:19):
gosh, thank you. You don't knowwhat this means to us, right?
You. She can potentially hiresomeone else totally, and she
could buy something for thekitchen. She can so and so
impactful. Where the 359,000number is really big, right?
It's big and flashy, butsometimes it's the smaller
numbers that seem to make moreimpact.
(12:40):
100% well, and I think like,this is going to be a good is
going to be a good pivot to talkabout your world, like, more
specifically in terms of, like,the contractors, the general
contractors, the trades, thespecialty contractors, people
like that, because it is such alow margin business. And like so
much of it does, it can get downto the 1000s, the percentages,
the decimals of percentages.
Like, how can we run it so?
(13:02):
Like, what have you seen fromlike, a success story standpoint
with contractors? Like, whatdoes that typically? How does
that process typically look forthem when you start talking to
them?
So it you know when you'relooking or when you're talking
to any business with reallytight margins. And to your
point, there are certainindustries with tighter margins,
(13:23):
at least, that is my belief andopinion, right? And so there are
certain industries with tightermargins, and that's where this
really is. It can be so muchmore impactful, because you're
not looking at, you know,cutting the quality you're
talking about construction,you're not talking about cutting
the quality of the productsyou're using, right, or the
(13:44):
materials you're using, you'renot talking about cutting the
quality of the service or thepeople you're hiring. You're not
cutting any quality. You'resimply pulling a lever, right?
And so when you think about itlike that, you're pulling a
lever, and then, oh my gosh, bythe way, it impacts your net
operating income, right? So itimpacting your bottom line,
(14:04):
which, as a business owner,directly impacts the valuation
of your business by just puttingin this, this thing, right, that
you didn't know about. And sothat's what's so it feels so
magical about it, especially forthe industries that have such
tight, tight, tight margins,because it's not, you know,
you're not having to, like, Isaid, cut on, you know, now
(14:28):
you're using a sub par materialbecause you really, like, your
margins are too tight, right?
You need, you need to cut costs.
You're not having to do that. Sothis is a way that you can, you
can leverage somethingtotally and just make it a more
more effective, efficient way toemploy people, and that is that.
So that's just like, this istechnically like dropping the
amount of burden, cost that youhave on that employee. Is that
(14:50):
right, making them like,effectively cheaper to employ.
In essence, you're lower you'relowering gross taxable wages
without. Getting too nittygritty, because I know you're
like, This is not good, andprobably our listeners, it's
not, but what you're doing isyou're simply lowering gross
taxable wages, and then you havea claim payment too. So it's
(15:13):
all, it's all, and I'm happy towalk through it with people I
love. I'm like, here's how themoney flows. Because it's like
anything, you have to understandhow the money flows totally
right? You have to understandhow, and I know that's what you
guys talk about on the show allthe time, right? You have to
understand your cash flow. Youhave to, you have to understand
thattotally well. And I think that's
like, that's one piece that Iwant the listeners, because I
(15:36):
do, I think, like, you've got areally interesting story, Angie,
and you're providing a lot ofvalue, I think, for the for the
construction world, like, dothey have to have 5w two
employees for this to makesense? Two, one? What happened?
Like, what's the differencebetween their 1099, employees
(15:56):
and their w2 employees? I guessI guess I just asked you, like,
six questions there so we canunpack and tackle, like, the one
that's the most fruitful. Butwhat's your take? Where do we
go?
Um, yes, so there are a couplequestions in there, so I'm going
to go back and answer them. Um,so 1090 nines right now, and I
say right now because we'reworking on a solution to
(16:18):
support, um, 1090 nines andsubcontractors. But if you think
about we're lowering payrolltaxes, well, you don't pay
payroll taxes for 1090 nines,right? For subcontractors. So
for the health management plan,it does not work unless they're
w2 right? So they have to havesome type of wage you're paying
(16:38):
payroll taxes on. So that's animportant delineation, although
we may have another solutionrolling out at some point for
subcontractors, we do not todaysame answer or similar answer
for the number of employees.
Ideally, we typically look at 10or more employees. We are
working with a carrier that Iwork with, and we have great
(17:01):
conversations, and they takefeedback and make changes. And I
love working with companies likethis. So we don't want it to be
10 employees and more. We wantto be able to serve smaller
businesses, if need be. So we'relooking at lowering that
threshold. Right now, it is 10w2 employees or more, but in the
very near future, it should beless so by the time you're
(17:22):
listening to this, it's worthreaching out, because who knows?
Could be less?
Totally okay, well, and I thinkthat we can, we can follow this
thread, because there's a lot oflike so in adaptive, we just
rolled out our labor trackingfeature, and we've got several
customers that are largebuilders, like 1020, 30, $50,
million a year builders, andthey run a lot of 1099,
(17:46):
employees. Is that? Because,well, and I say 10 nine
employees, and obviously, likethis is where it can get
confusing in construction, isyou do subcontract out a lot of
labor, but even individuals,like project managers will be
1090 nines. Office staff will be1090, nines. Does the business
do that to get around having topay payroll tax? Or why do
(18:06):
businesses take that approach ormake that decision? Do you know?
Or do you speculate? It wouldbe, it would be speculation, you
know, like, oh, I don't, I don'tknow if I want to go down this
rabbit. I think it'simportant. This is good
conversation, especially someonewho's very pro w2 right?
It, it is, it is important. Andit's not necessarily that I'm
(18:31):
pro w2 I'm pro w2 when it is theright thing to do. So I, and I
work with a lot of HR people, soremember that, and I'm saying
that because I hear it fromtheir ends as well. A lot of
people will put people staff,right. We'll call them staff.
Will categorize staff thatshould be w twos as 1090, nines,
(18:55):
because, yeah, it's muchcheaper. If you don't pay
payroll taxes, they don't paypayroll taxes, right? There's
there's less liability, and so alot of people do that, but oh,
by the way, if you do thatincorrectly and get snagged,
there are a lot of fines that goalong with that. So I always
recommend working with someone,whether or not you have an HR
(19:19):
department or not. I i met witha lady this morning, and she
just outsourced HR. I work witha lot of people that do
outsourced HR, so, oh, by theway, if you ever need help with
that, let me know. I don't doit, but I can help you find
someone. Because I do reallythink it's an important thing to
look at and discuss, because youdon't want to do it incorrectly.
Because, oh, by the way, ifyou're supposed to pay taxes,
(19:42):
you will eventually pay taxesright. So we want to make sure
you're doing it correctly. Butin my opinion, a lot of people
will categorize staff as 1090,Nines when they when you look at
the requirements, and there'sdocuments out there that say,
Hey. This, if they do this, theyshould be w2 right? And these
(20:03):
are the requirements this, 1099,and that that will help. But I
think a lot of it is, is to savemoney. Okay, you know? And
especially when you're lookingat tight margins and industries,
it's like, hey, where can I savemoney?
So that makes a ton of sense.
So, and this is actually, and wecould be going down, like, a
totally path, like a wild paththat you don't know about. So
(20:23):
just like, stop me, or, like,tell me if you don't know. But
okay, like, a component of thisis that I typically hear,
especially with business ownersthat are running 1099 employees,
and then they decide to bringsomeone onto w2 is typically
around benefits, right? It'slike, kind of like, it's like,
an exciting thing, almost, oflike, I was 1099, and now I'm a
(20:46):
w2 employee, and I get benefitsoffered through the company, and
I get PTO or whatever else comeswith it, right? I should know
this, but, like, why I like tosave taxes on your 1090, nines.
Is it more reasonable to makeyour employees w2 employees, to
(21:08):
offer them benefits build astronger culture like invest in
your team, while considering thesavings that something like you,
what you offer reduces thatcost. Is that fair?
I mean, I think that that wouldbe fair to take a look at it and
see, you know, I think thatthere are, there are so many
(21:32):
components that go into it, andit is a lot of it is based on,
how do you want to run yourbusiness? What is the culture,
what is important to you as abusiness owner, and it's like
anything out there in the world,whether it's construction,
right, trades, whatever it is,there's there's good, bad, ugly,
and yeah, and neutral, right?
And so there's a lot of reasonspeople do a lot of things, but
(21:54):
it's worth considering andasking. I mean, I'm always for
asking people. I'm just like,What You See Is What You Get,
right? So if you have a team of1090 nines, Hey, is it important
to you to you know, if we lookedat bringing you in as a w2 is
that important to you? Is thatsomething that you would
(22:15):
appreciate or not? You know, ifyou can, if you are of the
situation where they could goeither way, have a conversation
with them. What do you see thedecision making, being with W or
with employees that are havingthat conversation, or just
deciding that, what typicallydrives a business to go w2
(22:38):
instead of 299? I know you.
There's a lot of reasons. Butwhat is like? What are some
really good reasons to consider,if I've got a builder out there
that's listening to thispodcast, and they're like, I've
got a team of six people, andhalf of them are 1099, but I
think I do want to bring them inas w2 what are some strong
reasons to do that?
So when you when you look at thestatistics, the reason that
(23:01):
people, historically, willchoose one job over the other is
not pay its benefits. Okay? Sowhen you look at attraction, and
I know specifically within theconstruction industry and
trades, right, there's ashortage of folks out there,
right, you're looking to attractemployees and and retain them.
(23:23):
So if you just look at that,that statistic, and that's how
people are making decisions, andthey're making it based on
benefits and not just money,that's pretty impactful. You
know? It helps with employeeattraction and retention same. I
have a partner that I work withfor retirement plans, right?
(23:44):
There's a lot of tax creditsthat you can get for offering a
retirement plan. Well, once anemployee is with you and they
start building up theirretirement there, you have an
increased employee retentionthere. You know, can they take
it with them? Of course, theycan totally, right, but it's the
more that you're offering them,the the you know, we always talk
(24:06):
about customers being sticky,right? Or return customers you
want to provide your your teamwith the tools they need to live
a happy and healthy life andbuild their life or build their
wealth, right? So it, it justdepends it. And I get pretty
passionate about it, but itdepends on, on what you want. I
think that there's a lot ofreasons for w2 and and I get, I
(24:29):
get the 1099, you know,rationale totally. And I listen,
I'm this is coming from a personwhere I don't want a team to
manage. So let me be reallyclear before someone called me
out, and it's like, No, shedoesn't have a team, right? I
get it. I have led a teambefore. I have managed a team. I
(24:50):
have been in management. I'mgood, yeah, so the people that
support me, they are subcontractto be clear. Yeah. I. Um, so I
just want to be totally honestthere, because that's, that's
what you get. You get 100%transparency with me. I love it.
I run, I've run a very differentorganization. So there are,
(25:12):
there are reasons forboth. Yeah, right, okay, no. And
I think this is great. I lovethat you added that because,
like, I think that just, like,validates a lot of what you're
saying in terms of like, it'slike, there's a lot of things to
consider, and it's kind of like,what you want out of whatever
business you're growing. And Imean, I'm, I'm sitting here
thinking, it sounds like the1099, path is to reduce a tax
(25:35):
liability pretty significantly.
But the w2 is designed for acall it a stickier culture, or
to offer your team more benefit.
Is there? Is there a way, like,let's just use you as an
example. Is there a way for youto say, like, Okay, I've got
this subcontractor that workswith me, and they're a rock
(25:56):
star, and I never want to losethem. You would extend the w2 is
like, almost like a promotion.
Is that a way to look at it? Or?
No, I don't know. I mean, Iguess you could, okay, I don't,
I don't know. I think thatthat's per I think that that's
personal. As far as how peoplewant to run their business,
(26:16):
sure, and if they're bringingthem in on a as a w2 but they're
not offering any additionalbenefits, then
that's not really, yeah, it'snot really a promotion. It's
almost like the w2 has to comewith the benefits aside,
because they're gonna get paidless, right? So I think you just
have to, I think that there areso many things. And, you know,
full disclaimer, as a CYA,remember 16 years in pharma, I
(26:39):
do not provide legal, tax, humanresource advice, any of the
things, right? So this is allthis is all opinion, just so you
know. And I do firmly believethat people should consult
people that are human resourcesprofessionals to make these
decisions and say, Hey, here'smy job description. Here are my
(27:01):
requirements. Is this a 1099, oris this a w2 because it's,
there's not too much of a grayarea. Like, people think it's
really gray. There's not from,from what I understand from some
of my HR counterparts, there'snot a ton of gray area,
okay? And that's probably where,like, I think this this is the
topic, like, to your pointearlier, that needs a discussed
(27:24):
and talked about, because thereis, there's, like, certainly the
boundaries, which is what you'reexplaining. But for me, like,
I'm still kind of sitting here,like, God, like, I don't know
how, like, I would not that I'm,like, advising customers on
this, but like, how I would talkto them about, like, going about
doing a 1099, versus w2 versus,like, the savings that you could
(27:45):
have as a w2 and adding thebenefits. Like, I think that's
what makes this such an notdiscussed topic,
right? Like, there's a ton ofpieces that go into it, right?
Because you you look at it, andyou look at, you're looking at
payroll taxes, you're looking atbenefits, you're looking at
(28:06):
potentially retirement, right?
Are you looking at additionalliability now you have staff? Do
you need different insurancecoverage, right? There's all of
these pieces that go into it. Doyou need to provide equipment?
Do you all of this stuff goesinto it and it's, it's a really
important piece. So, and I havehad clients say, hey, what you
know? Can I make these people1099, or what should I do? And I
(28:29):
will tell you 100% of the time,I refer them to one of my human
resources counterparts, becauseI, I don't know, right? And so
getting with a professional thatreally does know is really
important, because you want tomake sure you do the right
thing. And there are laws aroundboth, and you want to make sure,
(28:50):
make sure you adhere totallyagain, 16 years in
pharmaceutical sales, there's alot of lot of guardrails. So
constant Cy,totally, totally, well, and I
think just even like as atakeaway, like, with a when,
when you talk to builders aboutthis, and I'm just going to talk
about builders specifically,because, like, you're certainly
making it loud and clear.
(29:11):
There's a lot of variable andnuance here. And I could just
already see builders being like,this is why I 1099, or like,
this is why I don't do benefits.
Like, what are some like, easystarting points for them to
start digesting or consideringor talking about to go down this
path of like, should I w2 shouldI start standing up benefits?
And how can they do it?
(29:34):
Well? And you think aboutbuilders or contractors as well,
right? And it's like, hey, well,if I can't, you know, what? If I
don't have, you know, and some,some of these guys and gals,
maybe, you know, they'reconstantly building, and they
never have a lag time, right?
But I've worked with contractorswhere they're like, I
(29:54):
subcontract things out, becauseI don't know how many, right?
How many roofs? Am I going tohave to put on how much drywall
Am I having to put up? How muchso I could have? Maybe I'm
working on five houses thismonth, and then maybe next
month, it's one right? So thenif you have to carry the labor
costs, like you were talkingabout labor costs, you have to
(30:15):
carry that labor cost whether ornot you have five houses, 50
houses, or one house and youhave however many people doing
that, that's a huge burden toyour organization. So I think
that a lot of that, somefeedback I've gotten is a lot of
what your your expectation forcash flow and consistency, I
(30:39):
think is really important tounderstand, because either way
you bring someone on as a w2you're you're paying that person
right, whether or not you'rebringing money in or not, right,
where subcontractors, it'sobviously easy. Hey, now I have,
I need, I need 10 of you guys,right? This month, okay, next
month. I just need two of youright? And so that's easier to
(31:02):
work through the ebbs and flows,especially for newer businesses,
right? It in this industryspecifically, it makes a lot of
sense. Now, I know, and a lot oftrades it, it doesn't right. A
lot of them, the feedback thatI've gotten as they a lot of
trades will bring staffing on asW choose.
(31:25):
So it seems to be a little bitdifferent, but I think it's
always worth the conversationand talking to other people. I
always try to connect peoplethat are in the same industry
and doing the same thing,because I don't really believe
in competition anyway, so I'mlike, you guys can learn
something from each other,right? Or you can talk about
pain points or collaborate orsomething. And so a lot of that
(31:47):
conversation is really importantto have, and it trades versus
versus builders or constructionmay be very different
totally. And I think that's likewhen you mention the trades,
that makes sense, because it'slike, if you think about like a
plumber or an electrician,right? Or someone who they can
build up a lot of volume in jobsthat require a lot of people to
(32:08):
do that, whereas, like, maybe ageneral contractor with a
project manager who's building acustom home that's going to take
18 months, 24 months to build.
It's like, that's a lot. Youcould literally see an economic
downturn that impacts backloghalfway through a project, and
you'd be like, Dude, I don'tknow if I can handle three
project managers anymore. Imight only need one insulate
yourself as a builder to run a1099, crew and not be committed
(32:31):
to that cost.
Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's allinteresting conversation.
Yeah, totally, totally, no.
Mike, yeah, totally. And I thinkthat's like, that was one of the
reasons why I wanted you to comeon is just like, start opening
up this conversation. Because Ido, I think, like a, like, with
(32:51):
us coming out with labor andlike, tracking that internally,
like a, from a cash flowperspective, like, it's, we'll
just call it for simple math,like, 50% of the project, right?
It's like 50% of the project,labor, 50 project labor, 50% is
material. Obviously, there's,you know, nuance there, and
spread there, probably quiteheavily. But the point is, is,
like, that's literally what ittakes to build anything as
(33:11):
material and labor. And forpeople to think about this
through a different lens issuper important. So No, no, I
appreciate it, I guess. Whereare people like, where can they
find you? Angie, to learn moreabout this, open up this
conversation. Obviously, we'vemade it clear, like, there's a
lot of nuance here, right?
(33:31):
There's a lot of nuance. There'sa lot of like, explaining and
does this work for you? Is thissomething that you should be
considering? Where can they goto find more resources to start
a conversation with you? What doyou suggest?
So you can always go to mywebsite, Angie a key.com and
it's a N, G, I, E, and my lastname is a, k, i, so Angie a
(33:52):
key.com or you can email me atAngie at angie@key.com and I
will schedule a call with you,and we can talk about ways that
you can save money because wetalked about health management
plans. We talked about paymentprocessing, which, oh, by the
way, right? We talk aboutaccounting a lot. You're running
your payment processing throughyour accounting provider, right?
(34:14):
And you where your your booksare. It may not be the best
solution for you. So let's lookat some other options and or at
least get some informationright. And no matter who you
work with, my goal is to alwaysjust provide education. So
reaching out. I typically willhave a call with someone and
(34:34):
meet with someone, and we'll gofrom there, and then typically
we'll do a consultation. And mygoal, and my job is to find
money that you did not know isavailable
totally. I love it. That's my Ilove it. I love it. And that's
where, just for the listeners,again, it's Angie, a key, A, N,
G, I, E, A, K, i.com I think foranyone who's out there, that's
(34:59):
specific. Specifically, 10 ormore. W2, employees should
certainly reach out to Angie.
And I say that because when Iwas talking to Angie, I was
talking to you was scbc, yeah,the southeast built conference,
and you were talking about this.
I was like, this is kind ofseems like a no brainer, and I
think it's important to open upthis dialog to your like, very
first comment was like, thereason why people don't know
(35:20):
about is because it's like,distribution and getting the
order. Distribution and gettingthe awareness out is, like, talk
to her, because it sounds likesome pretty, like, low hanging
fruit, easy opportunity to getinto and just like, save some
immediate money.
So yeah, it's, it's a no brainerin my mind, right? It's easy.
And I will tell you it's, it'ssomething. And I always say joke
around. I'm like, no one wantsto talk about payment processing
(35:41):
unless something is broken orthey look at their statement,
right? No one but me. But thenwhen you start talking about
health management plans andpayroll tax savings, it's so
niche and it's so exciting, andit's not necessarily new, but
it's new to people, and it'ssomething that can save you so
much money without having to domuch of anything,
(36:03):
totally that's like the lowesthanging opportunity is what I'm
hearing. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
Okay, go after the low hangingfruit. The low hanging
opportunity is going to impactthe bottom line. It just sounds
like a good idea. But no, Iappreciate you, Angie. Thank you
for hopping on the show andspreading, spreading your wealth
of knowledge. I still, I feellike there's, there's a lot more
one on one that can happen herethat will open up a lot of
(36:23):
builders eyes. So definitelyappreciate you hopping on and
we'll just catch up soon.
All right, thank you much.
Appreciate you having me.
Welcome to builders budgets andbeers. I'm Rhys Barnes and I
(00:04):
started this podcast to havereal conversations about money
in the building industry, thewins, the mistakes and
everything in between. I believebuilders deserve to feel
confident about their finances,and that starts by hearing from
others who've been through ittoo. This industry can be slow
to change, but the right storiesand the right tools can make
profitability feel possible.
Let's get into it.
(00:34):
G mics are hot. We're ready torumble All right. Um, let's do
it. Yes, let's do it. Let's jumpin. I'm super stoked to have you
on the podcast. Thank you forjoining. Thank you. I always
like to give the listeners alittle or have the guest rather
give themselves a little bit ofa background so listeners know
who they're who they're tuninginto. Do you want to let them
(00:55):
know who's talking and what yourbackground is?
Sure, absolutely. Thank you somuch for having me. It's a
pleasure and honor to be here.
My name is Angie a key. I run abusiness solutions concierge and
consulting company. So what thatmeans is I love to work with
business owners and help themkeep more of the money they
make. I am a believer, and whenyou put good money in good
(01:18):
people's hands, good thingshappen. So we all started our
businesses, you know, for ourfamilies or to build a legacy.
So the more money you can keep,put back into your family, put
back into your community, thebetter we all are. So that is,
that's my why. As far as why Istarted my business, I spent 18
years in corporate America andthen jumped into
(01:39):
entrepreneurship. So those 18years in corporate America, were
in business to business sales. Iwas in pharmaceutical sales for
16 years of that, and thenjumped out into real estate
investing, totally differentworld, and did wholesaling,
which was fun. So I got to workwith contractors hand in hand on
some flips. It's, it's, was notfor me. I realized after a
(02:03):
couple years I was doing reallywell, and I was like, but why do
I feel like I'm rolling aboulder up the hill every day?
And I realized that my my happyplace, is working with business
owners instead of consumers. SoI got back into the business to
business arena and startedworking with small businesses,
and I like saving people moneyand getting them to have keep
(02:25):
more money in their pocketlights me up, like it keeps me
going. It's like it's money inmy pocket, which it's not, but I
get that excited. So that's alittle bit about No,
I love it. I love it, okay? Andthat's super interesting. So I
mean pharmaceutical sales rep toflipper to business consultant,
no business coach. Is that fair?
(02:48):
Yeah, consultant and concierge.
I'm not go ahead, not coachingpeople how to run a business. I
am bringing solutions that willsave you money to you so you
don't have to worry aboutfinding
so I think that's that's a gooddelineation there for the
listener. So you started workingwith contractors when you were
flipping obviously. How did youland on being a concierge and
(03:11):
focusing on the work that you donow? Was that impacted? Did you
see an opportunity and maybetell them what you do
specifically from a conciergestandpoint?
Sure, gosh, how did it comeabout? I don't believe in
coincidences. I believe thatthings happen for a reason. I
somehow, through a real estateinvestor connection I made. This
(03:35):
is why I don't believe incoincidences, because through a
real estate investing connectionI made on Facebook. He connected
me with this opportunity, whichwas the employee retention
credit program. So I started, Iwas like, Oh, this is great. I
can, I can help businesses getmoney back, right? And so I
(03:56):
started working with businesses.
And that was my aha moment whereI was like, Oh my gosh, this is
what I missed. So as thathappened, then I started and
that program ended, I was like,Well, what else can I do? What
other valuable service can Iprovide to business owners? And
I started putting pieces of thepuzzle together. And I was at a
networking meeting, and I wastelling someone what I what I
(04:16):
did, and people always when theywant something, I network a lot.
I have a big network here. I'min Central Florida, and people
always go ask Angie. Go askAngie. Go ask Angie, right? And
so I was telling this gentlemanwhat I do, and he goes, Oh,
you're like, a businesssolutions concierge. So, like,
I'm going to you, and you'rehelping me figure out what I
(04:36):
need, or I'm quarterbacking waysthat you can save money or keep
more of the money. Love it. AndI say that because it is happily
college football season.
Yes, yes, I love it. Okay, sonow specifically so you're just
like, you're you're bringing onclients or prospects, and you're
(04:57):
understanding, like, what theirbig challenges are. And. You are
directing them into solution.
Where do you spend the majorityof your time? Like, where you
keep mentioning, like, savingmoney, providing concierge
service? Like, where is the bigopportunity? And like, what are
you what are you directingbuilders into?
Yep, so I spend a large, largemajority of my time with payment
(05:20):
process. So there are a lot ofways that you can save money
within payment processing,whether it be looking at dual
pricing or I know a lot ofpeople like to process within
their accounting software. Sothat may or may not be the best
fit. There are a lot of waysthat you can do it and save a
(05:40):
lot of money. So I spent a lotof my time there, and then I
spent a lot of my time alsowithin health management plans,
which is not Group Health. Ifeel like I should just have a T
shirt that says it's not GroupHealth. It's not major medical
it is a it is a way to save andpayroll taxes. So when you look
at payroll tax savings. You'reif you have w2 employees,
(06:02):
they're really costly. You needthem, and they're wonderful, and
you want to take care of them,but they're really expensive. So
there are a few ways you cansave a payroll taxes, and I
believe that I have one of thebest ways to do so with some
great benefits. So that's whereI spend those two is where I
spend the vast majority of mytime. I also work with
Affordable Legal benefits andaccounts receivable. And then I
(06:26):
did stuff recently with the VisaMasterCard settlement. Very
cool. And then there are somemore settlements coming up, so
I'm vetting stuff that's outthere as an opportunity and then
proactively bringing it toclients that I'm
working with. Understood,beautiful. Let's talk about the
payroll tax conversation. Like,what like with w2 employees?
(06:46):
Because I know we certainlyhave, you know, a lot of
builders out there, they do w2employees. Some of them do 1099,
like, talk to me a little aboutwhat you see in the market from
a payroll tax savings, missedopportunities. Go from there.
There are a lot of missedopportunities I will I will tell
you I work really closely withCPAs and accountants, and a lot
(07:10):
of what I do is education. And Ihad a conversation last week
with a CPA, and it was a reallyinteresting conversation. This
wasn't with a constructionclient, but it was a client, and
she basically had advised themagainst one of the services I
provide. I don't get it. I don'tunderstand. Can you get me in
front of her? And she waswilling to meet, and after we
(07:33):
met, she said, Oh my gosh, thisisn't what I thought it was. Of
course they should do this. Thisis a no brainer, and so so much
of it is education and providingright so people look to their
CPAs and accountants andfinancial planners for advice.
But there's, there's only somuch right education you can
absorb and information that youhave. And so with a payroll tax
(07:57):
savings plan or a healthmanagement plan as an employer,
you can save between $600 and$1,000 per employee per year,
okay, plus your employee hasmore take home pay, so everyone
is net positive when you put oneof these plans into place, and
there is a minimal schedule ofbenefits that goes along with
(08:19):
it, and depending on thecarrier, potentially some
indemnity components as well. Soyou're you're providing some and
whether or not you have majormedical or not, that's great,
and this can work alongside ofit, but you're providing either
additional benefits or benefitsif you don't think that you can
afford them at all. And you aresaving, excuse me, in payroll
(08:40):
taxes, and your employees aresaving in payroll taxes. So
it's, I believe, one of thebiggest missed opportunities for
savings within organizations.
Okay, so, no, it's a lot tough.
Yeah, I'm kind of so I'm this isjust like, not my world. And
honestly, I feel like this thatmight be the case with, like, a
lot of listeners, listeners,small business owners,
(09:02):
especially since you're saying,like, this is a huge, commonly
missed opportunity, like, Iguess, like, my first question
is, why isn't this the standard?
Like, this kind of just seemslike it's a very like, easy no
brainer. Like, you could besaving $1,000 a year on payroll
taxes per employee. Employeesare making more money, like, I
(09:25):
guess. Why isn't that thenormal?
Well, it's like anything inlife, you have to have people to
go out and communicate it,right? So the distribution,
which is, which is part of whatI'm doing, right? So you need
people out there talking aboutit. You need, you know, I
partner with a lot of people tohelp leverage so that I can get
more information out and reachmore people. So I work with
(09:48):
payroll reps. I work with CPAsand accountants, you know, I
work with HR people to help getthe word out. I work with
fractional CFOs to say, hey,here's a way. Because. Someone
has to bring this to to theclient, right to the business
owner, whether it's myself orone of my strategic partners,
(10:08):
and we have to sit down and walkthrough it with them. It's not
something to be very candid.
It's not something that peopleare like, Oh, I immediately get
it right away. We have to gothrough it. We have to go
through how the money flows, andyou really, you have to
understand it. So it takes alittle bit of explaining. So
it's not something that's justlike, right? Oh, I totally get
it. It takes a little bit ofexplaining. And I think that's
(10:32):
why it hasn't more people don'tknow about it. Also, who is
really think about it. Who'sspecializing in payroll tax
savings, your CPAs andaccountants are really looking
at income tax Right? Like,that's their right, or sales tax
and whatnot. And then you have,you know, your payroll, people
are selling payroll, so they'refiling your, you know, they're
(10:55):
filing your quarterly taxreturns there for payroll. But,
like, who is looking at payrolltax savings?
No, Angie, I am. Yeah, I am. Andit's, it's, it is. So it's so
cool.
You know, when you look at abusiness, you know? And I looked
(11:16):
at a business owner the otherday, 12 employees, you're going
to save $9,000 a year. Yeah.
Then I look at a different adifferent employer. There's
multiple locations, you're gonnasave $359,000 a year. What?
Right? So, right, it's insane.
It's mine, 60 Yes.
(11:37):
And is right out of like orimpacts the bottom line,
yes, and they have hundreds andhundreds of employees. How many,
obviously, right? There are alittle over 400
Okay, so that's, this is a bigshop, but still, it's a, it's a
big right? They have multiplelocations, but still. But then
think about, and I tell peoplethis all the time, it's
(11:58):
typically the smaller businessesthat are like, Oh my gosh. This
is like, this is so impactful.
I'm working with a restaurant. Iknow we're we're speaking to
contractors and trade. So bearwith me. It's just an example.
But you know, she's going tosave over $25,000 a year. And I
thought she was going to startcrying. She was like, Oh my
(12:19):
gosh, thank you. You don't knowwhat this means to us, right?
You. She can potentially hiresomeone else totally, and she
could buy something for thekitchen. She can so and so
impactful. Where the 359,000number is really big, right?
It's big and flashy, butsometimes it's the smaller
numbers that seem to make moreimpact.
(12:40):
100% well, and I think like,this is going to be a good is
going to be a good pivot to talkabout your world, like, more
specifically in terms of, like,the contractors, the general
contractors, the trades, thespecialty contractors, people
like that, because it is such alow margin business. And like so
much of it does, it can get downto the 1000s, the percentages,
the decimals of percentages.
Like, how can we run it so?
(13:02):
Like, what have you seen fromlike, a success story standpoint
with contractors? Like, whatdoes that typically? How does
that process typically look forthem when you start talking to
them?
So it you know when you'relooking or when you're talking
to any business with reallytight margins. And to your
point, there are certainindustries with tighter margins,
(13:23):
at least, that is my belief andopinion, right? And so there are
certain industries with tightermargins, and that's where this
really is. It can be so muchmore impactful, because you're
not looking at, you know,cutting the quality you're
talking about construction,you're not talking about cutting
the quality of the productsyou're using, right, or the
(13:44):
materials you're using, you'renot talking about cutting the
quality of the service or thepeople you're hiring. You're not
cutting any quality. You'resimply pulling a lever, right?
And so when you think about itlike that, you're pulling a
lever, and then, oh my gosh, bythe way, it impacts your net
operating income, right? So itimpacting your bottom line,
(14:04):
which, as a business owner,directly impacts the valuation
of your business by just puttingin this, this thing, right, that
you didn't know about. And sothat's what's so it feels so
magical about it, especially forthe industries that have such
tight, tight, tight margins,because it's not, you know,
you're not having to, like, Isaid, cut on, you know, now
(14:28):
you're using a sub par materialbecause you really, like, your
margins are too tight, right?
You need, you need to cut costs.
You're not having to do that. Sothis is a way that you can, you
can leverage somethingtotally and just make it a more
more effective, efficient way toemploy people, and that is that.
So that's just like, this istechnically like dropping the
amount of burden, cost that youhave on that employee. Is that
(14:50):
right, making them like,effectively cheaper to employ.
In essence, you're lower you'relowering gross taxable wages
without. Getting too nittygritty, because I know you're
like, This is not good, andprobably our listeners, it's
not, but what you're doing isyou're simply lowering gross
taxable wages, and then you havea claim payment too. So it's
(15:13):
all, it's all, and I'm happy towalk through it with people I
love. I'm like, here's how themoney flows. Because it's like
anything, you have to understandhow the money flows totally
right? You have to understandhow, and I know that's what you
guys talk about on the show allthe time, right? You have to
understand your cash flow. Youhave to, you have to understand
thattotally well. And I think that's
like, that's one piece that Iwant the listeners, because I
(15:36):
do, I think, like, you've got areally interesting story, Angie,
and you're providing a lot ofvalue, I think, for the for the
construction world, like, dothey have to have 5w two
employees for this to makesense? Two, one? What happened?
Like, what's the differencebetween their 1099, employees
(15:56):
and their w2 employees? I guessI guess I just asked you, like,
six questions there so we canunpack and tackle, like, the one
that's the most fruitful. Butwhat's your take? Where do we
go?
Um, yes, so there are a couplequestions in there, so I'm going
to go back and answer them. Um,so 1090 nines right now, and I
say right now because we'reworking on a solution to
(16:18):
support, um, 1090 nines andsubcontractors. But if you think
about we're lowering payrolltaxes, well, you don't pay
payroll taxes for 1090 nines,right? For subcontractors. So
for the health management plan,it does not work unless they're
w2 right? So they have to havesome type of wage you're paying
(16:38):
payroll taxes on. So that's animportant delineation, although
we may have another solutionrolling out at some point for
subcontractors, we do not todaysame answer or similar answer
for the number of employees.
Ideally, we typically look at 10or more employees. We are
working with a carrier that Iwork with, and we have great
(17:01):
conversations, and they takefeedback and make changes. And I
love working with companies likethis. So we don't want it to be
10 employees and more. We wantto be able to serve smaller
businesses, if need be. So we'relooking at lowering that
threshold. Right now, it is 10w2 employees or more, but in the
very near future, it should beless so by the time you're
(17:22):
listening to this, it's worthreaching out, because who knows?
Could be less?
Totally okay, well, and I thinkthat we can, we can follow this
thread, because there's a lot oflike so in adaptive, we just
rolled out our labor trackingfeature, and we've got several
customers that are largebuilders, like 1020, 30, $50,
million a year builders, andthey run a lot of 1099,
(17:46):
employees. Is that? Because,well, and I say 10 nine
employees, and obviously, likethis is where it can get
confusing in construction, isyou do subcontract out a lot of
labor, but even individuals,like project managers will be
1090 nines. Office staff will be1090, nines. Does the business
do that to get around having topay payroll tax? Or why do
(18:06):
businesses take that approach ormake that decision? Do you know?
Or do you speculate? It wouldbe, it would be speculation, you
know, like, oh, I don't, I don'tknow if I want to go down this
rabbit. I think it'simportant. This is good
conversation, especially someonewho's very pro w2 right?
It, it is, it is important. Andit's not necessarily that I'm
(18:31):
pro w2 I'm pro w2 when it is theright thing to do. So I, and I
work with a lot of HR people, soremember that, and I'm saying
that because I hear it fromtheir ends as well. A lot of
people will put people staff,right. We'll call them staff.
Will categorize staff thatshould be w twos as 1090, nines,
(18:55):
because, yeah, it's muchcheaper. If you don't pay
payroll taxes, they don't paypayroll taxes, right? There's
there's less liability, and so alot of people do that, but oh,
by the way, if you do thatincorrectly and get snagged,
there are a lot of fines that goalong with that. So I always
recommend working with someone,whether or not you have an HR
(19:19):
department or not. I i met witha lady this morning, and she
just outsourced HR. I work witha lot of people that do
outsourced HR, so, oh, by theway, if you ever need help with
that, let me know. I don't doit, but I can help you find
someone. Because I do reallythink it's an important thing to
look at and discuss, because youdon't want to do it incorrectly.
Because, oh, by the way, ifyou're supposed to pay taxes,
(19:42):
you will eventually pay taxesright. So we want to make sure
you're doing it correctly. Butin my opinion, a lot of people
will categorize staff as 1090,Nines when they when you look at
the requirements, and there'sdocuments out there that say,
Hey. This, if they do this, theyshould be w2 right? And these
(20:03):
are the requirements this, 1099,and that that will help. But I
think a lot of it is, is to savemoney. Okay, you know? And
especially when you're lookingat tight margins and industries,
it's like, hey, where can I savemoney?
So that makes a ton of sense.
So, and this is actually, and wecould be going down, like, a
totally path, like a wild paththat you don't know about. So
(20:23):
just like, stop me, or, like,tell me if you don't know. But
okay, like, a component of thisis that I typically hear,
especially with business ownersthat are running 1099 employees,
and then they decide to bringsomeone onto w2 is typically
around benefits, right? It'slike, kind of like, it's like,
an exciting thing, almost, oflike, I was 1099, and now I'm a
(20:46):
w2 employee, and I get benefitsoffered through the company, and
I get PTO or whatever else comeswith it, right? I should know
this, but, like, why I like tosave taxes on your 1090, nines.
Is it more reasonable to makeyour employees w2 employees, to
(21:08):
offer them benefits build astronger culture like invest in
your team, while considering thesavings that something like you,
what you offer reduces thatcost. Is that fair?
I mean, I think that that wouldbe fair to take a look at it and
see, you know, I think thatthere are, there are so many
(21:32):
components that go into it, andit is a lot of it is based on,
how do you want to run yourbusiness? What is the culture,
what is important to you as abusiness owner, and it's like
anything out there in the world,whether it's construction,
right, trades, whatever it is,there's there's good, bad, ugly,
and yeah, and neutral, right?
And so there's a lot of reasonspeople do a lot of things, but
(21:54):
it's worth considering andasking. I mean, I'm always for
asking people. I'm just like,What You See Is What You Get,
right? So if you have a team of1090 nines, Hey, is it important
to you to you know, if we lookedat bringing you in as a w2 is
that important to you? Is thatsomething that you would
(22:15):
appreciate or not? You know, ifyou can, if you are of the
situation where they could goeither way, have a conversation
with them. What do you see thedecision making, being with W or
with employees that are havingthat conversation, or just
deciding that, what typicallydrives a business to go w2
(22:38):
instead of 299? I know you.
There's a lot of reasons. Butwhat is like? What are some
really good reasons to consider,if I've got a builder out there
that's listening to thispodcast, and they're like, I've
got a team of six people, andhalf of them are 1099, but I
think I do want to bring them inas w2 what are some strong
reasons to do that?
So when you when you look at thestatistics, the reason that
(23:01):
people, historically, willchoose one job over the other is
not pay its benefits. Okay? Sowhen you look at attraction, and
I know specifically within theconstruction industry and
trades, right, there's ashortage of folks out there,
right, you're looking to attractemployees and and retain them.
(23:23):
So if you just look at that,that statistic, and that's how
people are making decisions, andthey're making it based on
benefits and not just money,that's pretty impactful. You
know? It helps with employeeattraction and retention same. I
have a partner that I work withfor retirement plans, right?
(23:44):
There's a lot of tax creditsthat you can get for offering a
retirement plan. Well, once anemployee is with you and they
start building up theirretirement there, you have an
increased employee retentionthere. You know, can they take
it with them? Of course, theycan totally, right, but it's the
more that you're offering them,the the you know, we always talk
(24:06):
about customers being sticky,right? Or return customers you
want to provide your your teamwith the tools they need to live
a happy and healthy life andbuild their life or build their
wealth, right? So it, it justdepends it. And I get pretty
passionate about it, but itdepends on, on what you want. I
think that there's a lot ofreasons for w2 and and I get, I
(24:29):
get the 1099, you know,rationale totally. And I listen,
I'm this is coming from a personwhere I don't want a team to
manage. So let me be reallyclear before someone called me
out, and it's like, No, shedoesn't have a team, right? I
get it. I have led a teambefore. I have managed a team. I
(24:50):
have been in management. I'mgood, yeah, so the people that
support me, they are subcontractto be clear. Yeah. I. Um, so I
just want to be totally honestthere, because that's, that's
what you get. You get 100%transparency with me. I love it.
I run, I've run a very differentorganization. So there are,
(25:12):
there are reasons forboth. Yeah, right, okay, no. And
I think this is great. I lovethat you added that because,
like, I think that just, like,validates a lot of what you're
saying in terms of like, it'slike, there's a lot of things to
consider, and it's kind of like,what you want out of whatever
business you're growing. And Imean, I'm, I'm sitting here
thinking, it sounds like the1099, path is to reduce a tax
(25:35):
liability pretty significantly.
But the w2 is designed for acall it a stickier culture, or
to offer your team more benefit.
Is there? Is there a way, like,let's just use you as an
example. Is there a way for youto say, like, Okay, I've got
this subcontractor that workswith me, and they're a rock
(25:56):
star, and I never want to losethem. You would extend the w2 is
like, almost like a promotion.
Is that a way to look at it? Or?
No, I don't know. I mean, Iguess you could, okay, I don't,
I don't know. I think thatthat's per I think that that's
personal. As far as how peoplewant to run their business,
(26:16):
sure, and if they're bringingthem in on a as a w2 but they're
not offering any additionalbenefits, then
that's not really, yeah, it'snot really a promotion. It's
almost like the w2 has to comewith the benefits aside,
because they're gonna get paidless, right? So I think you just
have to, I think that there areso many things. And, you know,
full disclaimer, as a CYA,remember 16 years in pharma, I
(26:39):
do not provide legal, tax, humanresource advice, any of the
things, right? So this is allthis is all opinion, just so you
know. And I do firmly believethat people should consult
people that are human resourcesprofessionals to make these
decisions and say, Hey, here'smy job description. Here are my
(27:01):
requirements. Is this a 1099, oris this a w2 because it's,
there's not too much of a grayarea. Like, people think it's
really gray. There's not from,from what I understand from some
of my HR counterparts, there'snot a ton of gray area,
okay? And that's probably where,like, I think this this is the
topic, like, to your pointearlier, that needs a discussed
(27:24):
and talked about, because thereis, there's, like, certainly the
boundaries, which is what you'reexplaining. But for me, like,
I'm still kind of sitting here,like, God, like, I don't know
how, like, I would not that I'm,like, advising customers on
this, but like, how I would talkto them about, like, going about
doing a 1099, versus w2 versus,like, the savings that you could
(27:45):
have as a w2 and adding thebenefits. Like, I think that's
what makes this such an notdiscussed topic,
right? Like, there's a ton ofpieces that go into it, right?
Because you you look at it, andyou look at, you're looking at
payroll taxes, you're looking atbenefits, you're looking at
(28:06):
potentially retirement, right?
Are you looking at additionalliability now you have staff? Do
you need different insurancecoverage, right? There's all of
these pieces that go into it. Doyou need to provide equipment?
Do you all of this stuff goesinto it and it's, it's a really
important piece. So, and I havehad clients say, hey, what you
know? Can I make these people1099, or what should I do? And I
(28:29):
will tell you 100% of the time,I refer them to one of my human
resources counterparts, becauseI, I don't know, right? And so
getting with a professional thatreally does know is really
important, because you want tomake sure you do the right
thing. And there are laws aroundboth, and you want to make sure,
(28:50):
make sure you adhere totallyagain, 16 years in
pharmaceutical sales, there's alot of lot of guardrails. So
constant Cy,totally, totally, well, and I
think just even like as atakeaway, like, with a when,
when you talk to builders aboutthis, and I'm just going to talk
about builders specifically,because, like, you're certainly
making it loud and clear.
(29:11):
There's a lot of variable andnuance here. And I could just
already see builders being like,this is why I 1099, or like,
this is why I don't do benefits.
Like, what are some like, easystarting points for them to
start digesting or consideringor talking about to go down this
path of like, should I w2 shouldI start standing up benefits?
And how can they do it?
(29:34):
Well? And you think aboutbuilders or contractors as well,
right? And it's like, hey, well,if I can't, you know, what? If I
don't have, you know, and some,some of these guys and gals,
maybe, you know, they'reconstantly building, and they
never have a lag time, right?
But I've worked with contractorswhere they're like, I
(29:54):
subcontract things out, becauseI don't know how many, right?
How many roofs? Am I going tohave to put on how much drywall
Am I having to put up? How muchso I could have? Maybe I'm
working on five houses thismonth, and then maybe next
month, it's one right? So thenif you have to carry the labor
costs, like you were talkingabout labor costs, you have to
(30:15):
carry that labor cost whether ornot you have five houses, 50
houses, or one house and youhave however many people doing
that, that's a huge burden toyour organization. So I think
that a lot of that, somefeedback I've gotten is a lot of
what your your expectation forcash flow and consistency, I
(30:39):
think is really important tounderstand, because either way
you bring someone on as a w2you're you're paying that person
right, whether or not you'rebringing money in or not, right,
where subcontractors, it'sobviously easy. Hey, now I have,
I need, I need 10 of you guys,right? This month, okay, next
month. I just need two of youright? And so that's easier to
(31:02):
work through the ebbs and flows,especially for newer businesses,
right? It in this industryspecifically, it makes a lot of
sense. Now, I know, and a lot oftrades it, it doesn't right. A
lot of them, the feedback thatI've gotten as they a lot of
trades will bring staffing on asW choose.
(31:25):
So it seems to be a little bitdifferent, but I think it's
always worth the conversationand talking to other people. I
always try to connect peoplethat are in the same industry
and doing the same thing,because I don't really believe
in competition anyway, so I'mlike, you guys can learn
something from each other,right? Or you can talk about
pain points or collaborate orsomething. And so a lot of that
(31:47):
conversation is really importantto have, and it trades versus
versus builders or constructionmay be very different
totally. And I think that's likewhen you mention the trades,
that makes sense, because it'slike, if you think about like a
plumber or an electrician,right? Or someone who they can
build up a lot of volume in jobsthat require a lot of people to
(32:08):
do that, whereas, like, maybe ageneral contractor with a
project manager who's building acustom home that's going to take
18 months, 24 months to build.
It's like, that's a lot. Youcould literally see an economic
downturn that impacts backloghalfway through a project, and
you'd be like, Dude, I don'tknow if I can handle three
project managers anymore. Imight only need one insulate
yourself as a builder to run a1099, crew and not be committed
(32:31):
to that cost.
Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's allinteresting conversation.
Yeah, totally, totally, no.
Mike, yeah, totally. And I thinkthat's like, that was one of the
reasons why I wanted you to comeon is just like, start opening
up this conversation. Because Ido, I think, like a, like, with
(32:51):
us coming out with labor andlike, tracking that internally,
like a, from a cash flowperspective, like, it's, we'll
just call it for simple math,like, 50% of the project, right?
It's like 50% of the project,labor, 50 project labor, 50% is
material. Obviously, there's,you know, nuance there, and
spread there, probably quiteheavily. But the point is, is,
like, that's literally what ittakes to build anything as
(33:11):
material and labor. And forpeople to think about this
through a different lens issuper important. So No, no, I
appreciate it, I guess. Whereare people like, where can they
find you? Angie, to learn moreabout this, open up this
conversation. Obviously, we'vemade it clear, like, there's a
lot of nuance here, right?
(33:31):
There's a lot of nuance. There'sa lot of like, explaining and
does this work for you? Is thissomething that you should be
considering? Where can they goto find more resources to start
a conversation with you? What doyou suggest?
So you can always go to mywebsite, Angie a key.com and
it's a N, G, I, E, and my lastname is a, k, i, so Angie a
(33:52):
key.com or you can email me atAngie at angie@key.com and I
will schedule a call with you,and we can talk about ways that
you can save money because wetalked about health management
plans. We talked about paymentprocessing, which, oh, by the
way, right? We talk aboutaccounting a lot. You're running
your payment processing throughyour accounting provider, right?
(34:14):
And you where your your booksare. It may not be the best
solution for you. So let's lookat some other options and or at
least get some informationright. And no matter who you
work with, my goal is to alwaysjust provide education. So
reaching out. I typically willhave a call with someone and
(34:34):
meet with someone, and we'll gofrom there, and then typically
we'll do a consultation. And mygoal, and my job is to find
money that you did not know isavailable
totally. I love it. That's my Ilove it. I love it. And that's
where, just for the listeners,again, it's Angie, a key, A, N,
G, I, E, A, K, i.com I think foranyone who's out there, that's
(34:59):
specific. Specifically, 10 ormore. W2, employees should
certainly reach out to Angie.
And I say that because when Iwas talking to Angie, I was
talking to you was scbc, yeah,the southeast built conference,
and you were talking about this.
I was like, this is kind ofseems like a no brainer, and I
think it's important to open upthis dialog to your like, very
first comment was like, thereason why people don't know
(35:20):
about is because it's like,distribution and getting the
order. Distribution and gettingthe awareness out is, like, talk
to her, because it sounds likesome pretty, like, low hanging
fruit, easy opportunity to getinto and just like, save some
immediate money.
So yeah, it's, it's a no brainerin my mind, right? It's easy.
And I will tell you it's, it'ssomething. And I always say joke
around. I'm like, no one wantsto talk about payment processing
(35:41):
unless something is broken orthey look at their statement,
right? No one but me. But thenwhen you start talking about
health management plans andpayroll tax savings, it's so
niche and it's so exciting, andit's not necessarily new, but
it's new to people, and it'ssomething that can save you so
much money without having to domuch of anything,
(36:03):
totally that's like the lowesthanging opportunity is what I'm
hearing. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
Okay, go after the low hangingfruit. The low hanging
opportunity is going to impactthe bottom line. It just sounds
like a good idea. But no, Iappreciate you, Angie. Thank you
for hopping on the show andspreading, spreading your wealth
of knowledge. I still, I feellike there's, there's a lot more
one on one that can happen herethat will open up a lot of
(36:23):
builders eyes. So definitelyappreciate you hopping on and
we'll just catch up soon.
All right, thank you much.
Appreciate you having me.
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