October 14, 2025 • 51 mins
Allison O’Baker and Priscilla Thomasevich share how a CFO–CPA duo helps builders organize their books, budget with intent, and protect margins. We dig into chart of accounts vs. cost codes, fixed vs. variable spend, tax levers and accounting methods (cash, accrual, completed-contract), and when to lean on a bookkeeper, controller, or CFO.
Connect with:
Allison O'Baker: https://aodataflow.com
Priscilla Thomasevich: https://sawgrasscpa.com
Show Notes:
0:00 Cold open: why money talk matters
0:35 Mics up & episode setup
1:01 Allison’s lane: outsourced CFO
2:25 Priscilla’s path: CPA to builder
15:50 How the CFO+CPA duo works
20:04 Chart of accounts vs cost codes
28:42 Method matters: completed contract vs accrual
33:46 Benchmarks: spend on marketing & growth
40:16 Team roles: bookkeeper, controller, CFO
50:00 Takeaways & wrap
Find Our Hosts:
Reece Barnes
Matt Calvano
Podcast Produced By:
Motif Media
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to builders budgets andbeers. I'm Rhys Barnes and I
(00:04):
started this podcast to havereal conversations about money
in the building industry, thewins, the mistakes and
everything in between. I believebuilders deserve to feel
confident about their finances,and that starts by hearing from
others who've been through ittoo. This industry can be slow
to change, but the right storiesand the right tools can make
profitability feel possible.
Let's get into it.
(00:34):
Alrighty. Team mics are hot.
We're live, not live, we'rerecording. But I really
appreciate both of you coming onbuilders budgets and beers
today. Let's just go ahead andstart with Allison Priscilla,
you guys giving the listeners alittle background on yourselves
and a little intro. Who wants togo first? Who wants to go first?
(00:55):
Allison, Allison, you go first.
So my name is Allison o Baker. Iam the owner of ao Dataflow
consulting. I am essentially anoutsourced part time chief
financial officer for businessesthat are maybe too small, that
don't need full time CFO, butalso still deserve to have that
(01:16):
expertise and helping build yourbusiness, everything I do is
based under the concepts oftrying to help you organize,
simplify and scale yourbusiness. And I tend to kind of
niche a little bit with clientsthat are in the construction
trade space, law firms ormarketing, advertising agencies.
(01:36):
And I come with a background of20 plus years of corporate
finance, accounting, projectmanagement experience.
Very cool. I always like to askjust from corporate I mean, this
is like a trend. You know, a lotof small business owners come on
the podcast. A lot of them havecorporate backgrounds. Who are
you with? Who Where did you getyour experience from a corporate
standpoint,I have worked for a lot of
different industries in thecorporate space, where you're in
(01:58):
investments with BlackRock.
Worked at Siemens energy threedifferent times. They kept
letting me come back and trydifferent roles and a wide
variety there. And those areprobably the bigger names that
people may know.
Okay, cool. So investments atBlackRock, Siemens a couple of
(02:19):
different times. Very cool. Ilove it. Thank you, Priscilla,
your turn.
My name is Priscilla Thomassevich. I'm a CPA. I started my
career out of college workingfor Deloitte, one of the big
four accounting firms, and Ireally enjoyed it. It's the most
glamorous of CPA jobs. However,after a short period there, it's
(02:44):
a lot of work, and I didn't feelthat connection to people, you
know, the owners of the businesswere stockholders. So I really
wanted to get back to my roots,which was small business tax
preparation that I had donebefore college and during
college, and work withentrepreneurs. My husband is an
(03:09):
entrepreneur. We own aconstruction company together,
thomasovich construction, herein South Florida. And so I
really enjoyed that connection.
So after a few years of working,you know, for big firms and
companies, I started my ownpractice. I've been in business
since 2007 and now I specializein tax reduction strategies as a
(03:30):
tax planner,yeah, okay, so coming up on 20
years, congrats, and I can'timagine that you have a lot of
builders that want to reducetaxes. I feel like there's not a
lot of them out there,right? And, well, everyone wants
to pay their fair share. Butover time, I've seen a shift in
(03:51):
what people think is their fairshare. 100 right? Early in my
career, it was a little bit of adifferent climate, politically,
and, you know, in the country,so now people are looking to
take charge of their ownfinances. You know,
totally, totally, no, I love it.
I so a we've got, we've got alot of, we've got a lot of
(04:15):
lineup here. We've got, we'vegot, we've got some, some
subject matter experts, forsure. I love it. Okay, so let's,
let's go ahead and dive inAllison, and just for the
listeners here, obviously,considering, you know, we've got
a fractional CFO, we've got atax and CPA accounting expert
here, a lot of what thisconversation is going to be
(04:37):
revolving around is going to behow to make your business
attractive to buyers, and thenhow to effectively plan for tax
strategies when it comes toselling your business. So I
guess I'll just kick it off.
Allison, I mean, like, whatwould you say is just, you know,
kind of the high level summary,the too long didn't read before
(04:57):
we get into this, in terms ofyou. All builders should build
their financial framework tosell.
Yeah, exactly. So I come withthe experience of working with a
lot of companies that have beenpoised to sell or private equity
ownership, so I understand whatthose potential buyers and
valuations are looking for. Soit's really about with
(05:18):
constructions businesses andtrades businesses, of being able
to start showing a breakout inyour revenue, of what is
recurring versus project based,and how to actually then show
also the backlog of a contractis very important as well. You
want to make sure that you'restarting to get very clean
financial statements for yourprofit and loss and your balance
(05:41):
sheet. So that is organized in away that is very easy for those
potential buyers or valuationexperts to be able to pinpoint
certain metrics that are commonthat they're going to look for,
and that gets to be things likehelping them understand it. They
are not just buying yourrevenue, they are buying the
whole financial story of yourbusiness, and where I come in,
(06:03):
is to help you not be yourtransactional accounting person,
but help you understand how toreset those structures in the
financial pieces your businessto make it ready for when your
time is starting to get somevaluation and buyer interest.
Totally okay. No, this is, thisis, this is going to be
interesting. And I think the onepiece, so I heard so and it was
(06:27):
great. There's a lot of piecesthere, but the pieces that stood
out to me were the project basedrevenue versus the recurring
revenue versus the backlog.
Maybe not verse, but thecombination of those three
combination exactly, where doyou see most builders, whether
they're getting ready to sell ornot? Where do you see them
lagging the most or like nothitting the mark on those three
(06:48):
the most often would it be likethe recurring the project based
the backlog? Where do you thinkthey struggle the most to
understand that? Well,it's definitely harder for
construction and businesses toshow recurring revenue because
much of it is project based,which is why the project and
completion and the backlog is soimportant for projects. But if
there is any pieces, you canstart showing that are more
(07:09):
recurring. That is one thingthat is definitely a high value
area for buyers and valuationsis looking at like what is more
likely, the sustainable,recurring money that's coming
into the business, because thenthey can it comes down to a
little bit more of you're not asdependent on necessarily one big
(07:29):
project to make your revenue forthe year.
Totally makes sense now, whatlike? What are just and I
imagine that the different typesof recurring revenue streams
vary like business by business.
Is this electric? Is thiselectrical company? Is this a
vertical new constructioncompany? But what are just some
What are just some ideas thatyou have heard or that you
(07:50):
suggest for builders to startthinking about to get that
recurring revenue concept goingin their business?
I mean, if they have otherpieces of their business that is
not just straight project based,maybe there is some subbing out
of areas. I actually might leaninto Priscilla a little bit more
for that. Of like, what have youseen in your experience with
your construction business thatmight be able to relate into
(08:12):
that?
Yeah, you know, like everythingelse, construction often comes
down to relationships. We buildrelationships over time. So for
example, if you lock in with afranchise and they have an
expansion plan for growth, thenyou might be the builder for the
next 20 years. Or at least, youknow that the current five to 10
(08:33):
year period to sustain to helpthem, you know, build through
that growth. So that's one waywith relationships. And I think
another really Pinnacle area forgeneral contractors is to have
systems in place where the owneris not necessarily the critical
(08:53):
person that must be there forthings to continue. So as these
relationships develop throughfranchises or otherwise. Maybe,
you know, property managers thatgive you a lot of good leads for
work, or realtors or architects.
You know, we partner with manydifferent people in
construction, but with withoutthat pinnacle person, the CEO at
(09:15):
the helm, will those jobs stilla come in and B, be completed,
you know, as if the owner werethere.
I have never thought of it thatway. And correct me if I'm like,
misinterpreting this, but interms of, like, a recurring
like, viewing recurring revenueas basically building processes
(09:37):
and systems to remove yourselffrom the business. Correct me if
I'm wrong, but that's how theywould view it. Like, if
someone's evaluating yourbusiness to buy it, they're
they're truly looking at thisand being like, if we buy this
thing and we pull John Smith outof John Smith construction, this
thing dies tomorrow,definitely look at that. They
will look at what your biggerclients are, and evaluate if the
main person in that business or.
(10:00):
Owner leaves. Will those clientsleave because that relationship
is dead? Then, in terms of thebusiness structure of it, that
actually is very much somethingthat is looked at of and that's
why, sometimes, when there's asale, they might say, Okay, will
you, as this key personnel, stayon with the business through a
(10:20):
certain transition period sothat they don't have that
immediate droptotally I think that adds some
weight to emphasizing theimportance of building systems
and processes in your business.
It's talked about so much, butthere's not really like a
tangible why that's a prettytangible why.
(10:43):
Right after working with smallbusiness owners for 20 years,
you can start to see the trendswhen you elevate yourself as not
just the technician working inthe business or the manager
overseeing the staff. Youelevate yourself to an executive
role where you have the rightteam in place that works below,
(11:07):
you know, the those executiveowners, then it's sustainable
for the long term, like acorporation.
Totally, totally and view, goahead. Allison, no, I'm just
agreeing, yes, yeah, totally,totally, for sure. And again,
like, I think this all makessense on paper. But where do you
(11:27):
guys see builders typicallystruggle with these concepts?
Again, you could sit across thetable from someone and explain
this to them, they'd be like,this makes a ton of sense in the
world. But where do theytypically struggle making that
shift, that initiative? Is it amental shift? Is
it's a mindset shift? Even in myown CPA firm, I was preparing
taxes, so I had to make thatshift that now I'm leading the
(11:52):
team that prepares the taxes, sothat I can concentrate on
reviewing the tax returns forplanning opportunities and
similarly, you know, aconstruction owner retains those
relationships, but starts tofortify by mentoring. You know,
the next generation that'scoming up that's going to lead
(12:13):
that team. And you know, youwould do that if that were your
son or daughter. You would dothat naturally, right? So it's
some it's similar to that, evenif you don't have a family, that
construction company that wantsto continue without you, you
know the employees that you havecan fill those roles for you.
100% totally. Okay. So I guesseven like so, what is so? What
(12:38):
is? What is your and yourhusband's construction company?
Priscilla, what do you guysbuild? Thomas savage
construction, we do bothcommercial and residential here
in West Palm Beach, Palm BeachCounty, Florida, and our
residential is mostly luxurycustom homes. So we just wrapped
up a project on two acres withover 15,000 square feet, four
(12:59):
separate buildings, a beautifulmodel home. We're getting the
pictures ready for the website.
Soon, I'm gonna be checking themout. That's for sure.
It's really awesome. We alsobuild some things on the water.
Here in South Florida, we have alot of water, so some additions
(13:23):
to, you know, very large homesalready, and then on the
commercial and we do medical,professional new construction.
The office building that we'rein is a new office park with
three buildings, and we occupyone and restaurants and some
franchises as well.
(13:43):
Okay, so you, I mean, you guysare building just about
everything. I love it, yeah,yeah. Um, okay, so even I can't
imagine it just started thatway. I can't imagine that. No,
not at all,technician to manager and now to
this. You know, greatdevelopment, yes,
yeah, for sure. Okay, so whatwere and how long have you guys
(14:03):
been in business, since 20002002 okay. Okay, cool. And so
with that said, I mean, whatwas, what was like, the learning
curve from there, just like, sothe builders can assimilate and
hear it from, like, obviously,like, a very, like, strong
accounting background. Husbandand yourself are running a
(14:24):
construction company. What wasthat learning curve like over
that, that 25 years,it's truly been an amazing
journey. I mean, we started,literally, mom and pop. I had a
tiny little office so I couldmeet tax clients. And, you know,
my husband was out in the field.
He wore a tool tool belt. He,you know, oversaw construction,
(14:48):
and we made a living, and wewere happy. Over time he got,
you know, opportunities to buildbigger things. He needed more
people. We. Utilizesubcontractors a lot, of course,
MEPs, mechanical, electrical,plumbing, of course, yeah, and,
and we fortified relationships.
You know, he always was reallyinto the craft of building. And
(15:12):
so his quality and hisdetermination to get the job
done no matter what, you know,we got a lot of work, quality
work, completed, and people tooknotice of that. And after, you
know, fostering all theserelationships over time, we, you
(15:32):
know, we really started to todevelop a big, a bigger company
and hire more people for theoffice. We had to move out of
the little, you know, space thatwe had about six years ago. We
got a bigger office, and then weoutgrew that. So now we have our
new office here in Lake WorthFlorida.
(15:54):
Okay, I love it well. AndAllison, so you mentioned that
you two work together quiteoften?
Yes, yes. So our littlebackstory is Priscilla and I met
earlier this year at a CPAWomen's Conference. And I'm not
even a CPA, but I crashed andand we just immediately kind of
(16:16):
bonded, and she was looking tobe able to start offering some
CFO services to her clients, andwe have just now created this
kind of, you know, off paperpartnership, and we are really
enjoying the balance of whatboth of us bring to the table.
It's been a great relationshipso far.
Okay, so you guys, I mean, thisis, like, still, like a new
(16:36):
relationship for you guys, likethis, like, we're a year end,
basically, okay, I wanted to askbecause I was curious, like, in
terms of, like, a framework andlike, what would need in place
for, say, Priscilla and herhusband to sell their business.
What would that look like? Doyou work with them on this type
of stuff? Does Priscilla justhave it, you know, in the bag
or, I guess, how would you likeadvise someone like Priscilla's
(17:00):
company to sell. We're notselling. We're not okay, that's
a good one. Why not? Whynot? Well, first of all, I have
a 21 year old son who's studyingengineering,
so he's ready to come in, yeah?
Well, we want to let him go outand take his shot at engineering
first, totally, you know, andsee how that works out, but
(17:21):
clearly, there's a greatconnection with construction and
engineers, right? So over time,our dream would be that our son,
Nick, would, you know, come intothe family business. But
ironically, we have a projectmanager named Nick who is also a
great candidate for leading thiscompany down the future, you
(17:43):
know, so I'm not sure a truePlus, we're not that old,
20 year old company.
About that is about what youwant to do with the rest of your
life. Okay, here's the salespitch. I'm ready, Allison,
but this is a big part of ouridentity, and I bet a lot of
listeners could agree with thatas well,
(18:04):
totally, totally well. And alsofor your son, my wife, she works
for a large contractor, a lot ofengineering. It's kiwit They do
a lot of engineering stuff. Soif he's looking for places,
keywords, an awesomeorganization, yes, okay. But so
back to the frameworks. I thinkAllison, like, what would you
advise, just some, like, somebasic stuff that builders can
(18:25):
look at. I know we talked aboutthis a little bit, but just to
get a little bit more in theweeds here, like, what are some,
what are some of the frameworksof, like, reporting, metrics,
investor valuations, like, whatare some of those things that
that builders should be keepingtop of mind if they want to sell
their business?
Sure. So I'm gonna nerd out onmy thing that most people don't
understand. Which is thechart I'll really yen. If it
gets too nerdy, I'll reel in.
(18:46):
Which is thechart of accounts. So the Chart
of Accounts, accounting systemis essentially the list of
general ledger accounts thatmake up your P and L statement
in your balance sheet. I verybelieve,
yes. I don't mean to ruin yourtrain of thought, yes, but we
talk a lot about Chart ofAccounts cost codes and adaptive
(19:07):
should builders be running theircost codes through their chart
of accounts? Yes. Should they betied to chart of accounts? Or
should their chart of accountsreflect their cost codes?
If I have a strict opinion onthat, Priscilla,
I'm sorry repeat that. Soinstead of having just like a
(19:30):
singular, we'll call it cost ofgoods sold or cost of
construction account, okay,should they have just one cogs
account that their cost codesare mapped to? Or should, or
shouldconstruction, right? So we have
divisions of construction, yes,17 there. There could be, I
(19:51):
think, up to 34 or something.
But we use 17 for generalconstruction, and we match
revenue. And expenses throughthe division codes, great.
Okay, so you're looking at like,17 line items or codes,
yes, on a job, project basis. Ifyou want to roll up your P and
(20:13):
L, your profit and lossstatement, then yeah, you don't
want to bore the details there,the reader with the details
there. So maybe you snap that upinto one cost of goods sold.
Yes, okay, okay, cool. Andthat's where I was always
curious, because I think there'sa lot of conversation on Chart
of Accounts. I love that. Thatwas, like, the first thing you
brought up Allison, because thatis so important. And like, we
(20:35):
talk about, we talk about Chartof Accounts, we talk about cost
codes. And, like, justunderstanding, like, what
information does a cost codegive you versus what is a chart
of accounts give you, right? Andhow does everything play in
tandem? Okay, I digress. Butthank you. I wanted your take on
that, yes, so. And essentially,it's like it really is starting
with that, like splitting outyour revenue by, like, what is
project versus, you know,different types of things you
(20:56):
should not if you're looking atyour P and L and there's one
income account and one Cost ofGoods Sold account you're
already failing andunderstanding the financials of
your business. So you want tobreak those out in a way that it
is gives you value in data andhelps you see seasonality and
trends, but not so deep that itis too onerous on the person
actually doing the transactionalaccounting and categorizations.
(21:19):
So it is very making sure thatyou are properly putting things
in the cost of goods sold area.
I come across a lot ofcompanies, not necessarily in
the construction business, butin other trades and other
businesses that don't understandwhat cost of goods sold or cost
of sales at all, and understandthis direct cost to produce your
revenue, and they just have itin operating expenses. And so,
(21:42):
like, that's one of the firstthings I do is, like, we need to
move these up, and then it's andthen creating your operating
expenses in more bucketed areasof categories, and putting it in
a way that you are seeing yourlargest and fixed groupings
first and then go down into morevariable cost and more
discretionary, and that helpsthe owners and the key personnel
(22:03):
be able to start understandingwhere are the areas that we
cannot have any impact on theexpenses, and what are the areas
where, maybe for having a littlebit of cash flow situation or
whatnot, that we can maybe, likereduce cost temporarily. So it's
identifying it in areas andbuckets that make it a little
(22:24):
bit more easy for that. And tohelp you start doing a budget.
And if you're not doing abudget, you need to do a budget.
Yeah, Allison has been reallyinstrumental with the clients
that we work with together inshowing them how to
(22:45):
differentiate betweendiscretionary expenses that you
could abandon if necessary orchange, versus fixed expenses
and fixed costs that like rentthat you're stuck with a
contract, you know, and sothat's been really helpful. And
we pair that with the budget. Soher work, you know, in the
(23:09):
budget and forecast helps theclients to kind of plan for
the future, yeah, so, and I'lljust say a couple more metrics,
and throw it over to Priscillaof then what I kind of help
reset things in that way of thefinancial framework. Help them
understand gross margin by theirservice lines. Help them
understand EBITDA. EBITDA ingross margin percentage are two
(23:32):
of the main numbers that a buyeris going to look at. And so help
it gets so that your financialstatements are clean in in that
way, and also in a way thatmakes it easier for the tax
preparer to find deductions andareas of where they can make
some adjustments. So then I kindof help reset the things, help
(23:52):
them understand the metrics, theanalysis, do budgeting and
forecasting, and then bring in,and then Priscilla's and her
team are really the ones thatlike, Okay, we're going to take
it to the next level and lookingat the tax piece of it. So I'll
throw it over to you. Yeah.
So we take a look at youroverall profit and loss, your
(24:13):
tax returns, your balance sheet,to look for opportunities. What
we really try to get to also isthat I do a lot of listening to
clients. I want to understandtheir goals for their future and
where they spend their money,and then we try to determine,
based on the, you know, theinformation that they share with
(24:34):
us, perhaps there's a placewhere money is going after tax
that we could rearrange to bebecome a tax deduction legally.
Of course, you know, all withinthe the confines of the IRS
Code, for example, if you'repaying medical expenses outside
(24:56):
of your tax deductions, becausein in many such. Situations,
they're not deductible, orthey're not useful in a
deduction, you can't reach thelimit in which you need to reach
to start deducting them. Butthere are some strategies we can
implement at the business levelwhere medical deductions for
employees could be deductible.
So you know, it could besomething simple like that, or a
(25:19):
more complex strategy, sometimesthe entity itself, the type of
entity you have, an S corp, a CCorp, a partnership. They all
have pros and cons, and there'sso much nuance in tax, meaning
whatever works for you and yourbusiness may not be the exact
(25:39):
situation for your neighbor oreven your business partner.
Sometimes, you know a businesspartner has a spouse who earns
significant income, or they havelosses that you don't have,
whatever it is, everyone's youknow, different customized and
so we try to understand yourparticular situation, and then
(26:02):
how does the tax code work bestfor you?
Why does it have to be soconfusing?
I've spent my whole careertrying to figure that out,
right? I don't write the law. Icertainly would never write
something right?
I'm just like, I'm saying. I'mjust like, Gosh, why? Like, I
(26:24):
mean, I feel like there's just,like, a lot of like, small
businesses out there that wouldjust be like, can you just tell
me what I need to do? Or is thatbasically what you guys do after
these conversations? Yeah, yeah,that's what you guys do. It's
just together we canand if I can't, I'm part of a
network of over 700 certifiedtax planners like me, so I can
bring it to the larger group,and we can work on more complex
(26:47):
issues together.
Totally. Okay, cool. Okay, sowith tax and all this stuff, so
we just rolled out a whipfeature in our product. I've
been talking to a lot of, like,the top 100 accounting firms
about, like, introducing whip totheir clients to accelerate
this. And from a tax and anassurance standpoint, it
(27:09):
certainly has its like, interestpoints, obviously. Allison, you
had talked a little bit about,like, budgeting and recognizing,
you know, these types ofrevenues. How does WIP get
involved in your guys' day? Isthat a metric that you guys run,
is that a reportthat you guys can I take this
one,run it? Yeah, yeah. This is open
forum. That's one of myfavorites. And work in progress.
(27:30):
We have a schedule. You have tofollow the schedule. It's based
on your estimate. If yourestimates not great, if the
estimated profit is not reallyaccurate, or even if it was
accurate, but things changed, itdoesn't lend itself easily to
forgive, you know, issues thatcome up later that may arise.
(27:54):
Another thing we're allowed todo in tax is select our own
accounting method, and sothere's more than just WIP if
you're talking about auditedfinancial statements. This may
not pertain to that, but for taxpurposes, you can be a
relatively large constructioncompany and be on the cash basis
(28:17):
of accounting if you choose todo that, so you would only pay
tax when you have the money inhand, which is instrumental,
especially in early years,especially if you take deposits.
I'm sorry if you do takedeposits, it's the opposite.
Then you want to be on anaccrual basis, which is
something more like wimp there'salso new a new legislation and
(28:41):
one big, beautiful Act thatallows for completed contract
method of accounting, which isreally exciting for us. I'm
sorry I get excitedabout No, I want to hear more.
Keep going. This is great.
You're doing great, butcompleted contract method allows
you to wait until you actuallyknow whether or not you made
money on that job in beforeyou're required to pay the
(29:04):
taxes. So they've, they've madesome changes to allow more
taxpayers to be able to utilizethese different methods, and
that might be part of yourstrategy that works, you know,
to reduce your taxes today, tofree up some of that cash so
that you can make smartinvestments in either your
(29:27):
business or whatever it is thatyou're looking to do, you know,
down the road, totally.
I mean, so obviously, like whipsounds like a no brainer, but
why? Like, why? Why is whip kindof this, at least from my
experience, why is it kind oflike this, like, big elephant in
the room? Like, people know whatit is, but they don't really
talk about it, or they struggleto get it, and they, like, don't
(29:49):
really know how to make businessdecisions on it. Where do you
see builders struggle with whipjust calculating it, filling out
those spreadsheets,understanding what it means. We
start again. We start with theestimate. And you know, you do
an estimate for two reasons,first, to try to figure out what
your cost is, but secondly, towin a job. And you know,
(30:09):
sometimes you're up againstother builders and you really
want this work. And you knowsometimes your estimates, not
the greatest, but you thinkmaybe down the road there might
be some change orders, we couldpick up a little profit or, you
know, whatever happens so, butwe're stuck to your original
(30:30):
estimate and your profit marginfrom that estimate. So, you
know, it's got, but it'sgenerally accepted accounting
principles that requires that.
So you know that that's ourstandard. When I said for
audited financials, for CPAs,okay, but again, for tax, you
(30:53):
have different options. And evenwhat Allison does is more of
managerial accounting, which isfor the management of the
business, so we could reportwithin the company on a
different basis, so that wereally see things clearly, and
then we only comply with auditedfinancial statements or tax
(31:17):
returns On a different method.
Okay, so I guess, how do youleverage web Allison? Or do you
in your world?
I don't too much, because thewhere this is why Priscilla and
I work so well together isbecause definitely more of the
visionary, strategic and thesetting the framework in the
(31:39):
budgeting nerd. Okay, where sheis that actual, like,
transactional accountant and taxstrategy person. So that's why,
like, I'm not necessarilylooking at WIP too much. I'm
helping figure out where areyour goals and where are we
trying to get to. And let'sbuild you an operational budget.
But then also, let's put in somestretch goals of where you're
(32:01):
trying to go, and then helpingon a repeated basis of doing
some reporting and and visuallyshowing and giving the advice on
how we're getting there.
Totally okay, well, and so maybethat was short sighted on my
end. Like, when you hadmentioned budgeting, kind of to
Priscilla's comment is, like,with estimating, right? Like,
how much of that, like, ofbudgeting is estimating, at
(32:22):
least in the construction world.
When you talk about budgeting,like, let's give the listeners a
little bit more detail in termsof what that actually looks like
and like when you sayoperational budget, like, what
is when you sit down with a newclient, what does that look like
establishing that budget?
Yeah. I mean, obviously itdepends on the industry. It's
very industryspecific. We'll talk about
construction. Let's focus onconstruction. Yeah, I mean,
(32:42):
like, so for the constructionside, it really is kind of like
mapping out, you know, one ofthe construction companies I
work with, they're still on anewer end, and they are very
dependent right now on when theyget, you know, the upfront from
the bank to be able to start ajob. And then it's looking at
whether, whether they are takingprofits throughout, or whether
(33:04):
they have to wait towards theend. So we kind of just talk
through what does that looklike, and kind of mapping out
what we think the start time isgoing to be. How many months
would that be? What type ofother profit sharing payout may
there need to be along the way?
Kind of estimating them fromtheir their estimation tools of
what is the direct cost as well.
(33:26):
So we kind of layer it likethat, and try to be a little bit
conservative in what we'reputting in. And then it's really
then where we can make a littlebit more of a tangible
adjustments, is in the operatingexpenses area of how much is the
salaries? How much are wespending in certain other areas
of professional fees, ormarketing and advertising for
(33:49):
the business? And really kind ofhelping them understand in those
areas, what is the percentage ofsales that you are budgeting
towards those areas, and arethose in the benchmark areas of
where your business should be.
So like biggest thing is alwaysmarketing and advertising if you
are in whatever business cycleyou're in, if you're in growth
mode, that's a different set ofpercentage that you should be
(34:11):
spending and marketing andadvertising to be bringing in
more revenue and pipeline.
Totally, totally okay. What aresome other like? So marketing,
advertising, for sure, if you'retrying to grow your you're
trying to grow your business,you can invest more there. What
are some other areas thatbuilders should consider based
on the season of businessthey're in?
You know, those are some of thebigger ones. You want to also
(34:33):
make sure that you're notspending too much in. You want
to spend some on professionalfees, right? You want to make
sure that you are set up withpeople who are helping you try
business. But if you're hiringconsultants, and I will say this
even for myself, I try topresent myself in a way that I
am not a cost center. For you, Imake my turn myself into a
(34:54):
profit center. You know, there'sone client that I started
recently working with a couplemonths ago, different in your.
Street. But in the span of twomonths of working with them,
those two months of what weoriginally budgeted for them in
revenue, they surpassed it bylike $30,000 so I'm like, right
there. I'm already right ifthere is already paying for
(35:14):
myself in value, and it's hiringpeople that are going to be that
piece of you that are aninvestment in your business that
you're going to get a return ontotally go ahead. Priscilla, I
think on this note, sometimeswhen you hire professionals who
point things out to you andtrain you a different way of
thinking, you start toautomatically start thinking
(35:35):
that way yourself. I noticedthis with my tax planning
clients, I point out things thatmight be deductible they weren't
thinking about. And sure enough,a couple of weeks later, I get
phone calls, hey, what aboutthis? I'm going on a golf
outing. I'm doing this, youknow. Can we make this more of a
tax reduction thing? Then, youknow? So they're starting to
(35:58):
think on their own, and I thinkthat's what Allison's help does
you know? They come into themeetings, they start to train
themselves, to look, you know,at their financials differently,
like a professional would. It'skind of like a training ground.
It absolutely is, I definitelysaid that's a big piece of what
(36:19):
I'm doing is trying to educatethose key personnel on what to
be looking for in theirfinancials. And it does in the
long run, I do. I get clientsthat come back and be like, Oh,
hey, what about this? And like,Oh, hey, I noticed this wasn't
right. What do we do with it?
You know, like, and they getexcited when they realize that
they understand it more. Andlike, that's what brings me joy,
is knowing that I am helpingpeople understand and have
(36:42):
financial clarity and moreconfidence in the numbers in
their business. Yeah,and we're intimately involved in
the details of a client'sbusiness, right? So there's not
that many people who know asmuch about you as we do, and so
we become kind of your partner,you know, and that's why, that's
why it works so well with themom and pop construction company
(37:04):
between, you know, my husbandand myself, and that's the same
type of relationship that Istrive to give my clients,
something trusted, you know,something intimate, that they
can share details And togetherwe can discuss what the best
path forward would be. So webecome kind of a partner in your
business, but you get to keepthe whole business.
(37:28):
Yeah, of course, of course,yeah, you guys aren't asking for
percentages, or maybeyou are. It really is personal,
like you said it, and it's likewe're trying to help them feel
the emotions of money, becausemoney is very emotional. Can be
traumatic to certain people, butwe become your trusted people of
don't feel shame, and what youdo know and don't know we're
(37:49):
here to help and educate, andlet's help you make the
unemotional decisions on themoney piece of where you're
going,right? We might sound smart
here, but you don't want mebuilding your house.
Yeah, we all have our skills. Weall have our skills and 100%
(38:13):
Well, and that's okay. So Ithink I've got two questions
here. So like, first, how shouldbuilders be focusing on, from
like a budgeting standpoint,what they do spend, call it
annually, on professionalservices. And then the second
is, is, where do you typicallysee builders become the most
hesitant or resistant to workingwith you guys? Is it typically
(38:36):
like they're not ready for thattype of service? They're not
thinking, Is there something youguys can do
to motivate a really goodexample with a client we share
who had someone in house, andthey were relying on that
person. That person left theirjob. And so what we did was come
in somewhere close to the salaryon a part time basis. They have
(38:58):
staff in the office who's ableto do the daily activities. This
person that left their positionwas more of a controller, which
is the person who oversees theaccounting department, so we
could come in as CPAs and helpthere, and if the price is
(39:18):
reasonable, compared to what youwould pay for a full time staff.
There's no benefits. There's noreal agreement. You know, we
have an agreement to worktogether, but if at some point
you move forward and you want tohire someone back into your
office full time, you canreplace the position with an
employee. So, you know, it'svery flexible. And again, no
(39:41):
benefits. So I would say foraccounting, outsourcing and
overseeing financialinformation, you could consider
what you might pay a controller,which would shift, you know,
from market to market based onI. Okay?
So a lot of a lot of it is justlike understanding, even just
(40:03):
like the the cost of theemployee or the individual,
right, and not having tooversee, you know, when you hire
us at sawgrass, CPA, we havefive different people on your
team. So we have a, you know,staff accountant, we have a
controller level person. We haveAllison now as the CFO for our
(40:23):
clients, and then you have me aswell, and I left one out. We
have two staffs so, so you getvariety in case something
happens for the day to someone,there's someone else to back it
up. There's always a response.
You know, we don't call in sickto the client, and so you get
more without sourcing than youwould. Of course, there are
(40:48):
things that you can have anemployee do that we're not
physically there in your office.
There is that exchange, but, butit works really well for the
clients who are growing, maybenot quite ready to hire that
full time. You know fivedifferent people, but they do
need the work, you know. So it'sa good way to get started. And
(41:10):
through your budget, you'reactually placeholding for those
positions in the future. You're,you know, you're spending those
funds make sure that it'scomfortable before you commit
and hire someone who's going tomake it their life's work,
and you're actually better valuebecause you're getting, you
know, five heads with differentexperience that are coming and
(41:32):
helping you, versus one personin that
role, right? And overseen by aseasoned professional, you know,
and that I find my clients to beexcellent business people in the
field. They have goodoperations. They know how to run
their business. They know how tomake money, no doubt. But the
(41:53):
financial part is often not forthem, and that's okay, you know,
we kind of speak both languages,and we translate what the
numbers mean. The numbersliterally tell us a story. The
reason why Allison and I clickedwas because I, you know, she
came to my office, I opened thescreen with numbers, and she
(42:13):
explained to me what that meant,and I said, You are awesome.
Thank you.
I love it. I love it.
Just need you to do my taxes andfind me more savings.
Exactly, yeah, actually, I thinkI need my taxes. You need to be
done still too. So hello, we'reat September 10 today. I know, I
know. Is it September October?
What is it? What arethey doing? Individual filing
(42:36):
deadline is October 15. Butwe're still within, you know,
yeah, we've got time. Okay,cool. So I think, like, I mean,
it's like, a really strong case,of course, um, I think in terms
of, like, the budget that theyshould allocate for this. And I
say this because I think, ofcourse, like you mentioned,
(42:57):
Priscilla, the, you know, morelike the intermediary role of
like a business that's growingbut might not be able to build
out the whole team or doesn'tneed the team, but I'm even
thinking, like, even from likean advisory standpoint or just a
service standpoint, how do youadvise your customers to think
about building in professionalservices into their budget, and
what's reasonable for them toconsider, like a software it
(43:18):
could be anywhere from like, oneTo 5% of their overall budget
could be allocated to softwarecost, right? I didn't know if
you guys had a number or asuggestion for them to consider,
of like, what's reasonable?
I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm not sureit works quite like that. I
think for us, especially if youhave a pay applications, payment
(43:38):
applications, AIA, document, youneed a professional to help you
with those types of documentsfor your building, your billing,
rather and so, you know, if youhave those bases covered in your
office, you know that's great ifyou don't, those are really
(43:59):
important Things that will holdyou back from earning the money
that your potential that you'reable to do. So the way that we
approach things, especiallyparticularly with tax reduction,
is that we look at the valuewe're bringing to the table, and
like Allison said, it must be aninvestment if I can't save you
(44:19):
any money in taxes. Well, thenI'm not really worth a whole
lot, right? So the value comesfrom when there's the connection
and we can do something to saveyou significant amounts of tax,
and then our services pay forthemselves.
Yeah. Okay. Have either of youseen adaptive, the product, our
(44:44):
product. Iattended the scbc last year, and
I met you, and I did see it. Ireally wait we met, because I
last year it was 2024 Yeah, upin Orlando, we went. We went for
the Okay, great. I asked, just.
Because, like, when you're whenyou're talking about, like, AIA,
like, I'm just, like, still, wejust rolled out. Like, AIA,
you just rolled it out, becauselast year, yeah, do you have
(45:09):
that? Yeah, yeah, we do. Nowwe talked about what I met you
at this year's. Seb was like,I'm looking for a software that
has that for one of myconstruction clients. They don't
need it yet, but I wanted to seewhat it was going to look like
in the future. Okay, well, we'llshow you guys. Yeah, we'll bring
it we'll bring it back around.
We'll bring it back around,because we definitely have it
now. And to your point, it'slike, it's a huge challenge to
(45:31):
do all these things, but that'sjust like, it's one of those.
It's like a piece of the puzzlethat prevents you from getting
to where you actually need tobe, from a tax prep standpoint,
from a CFO advisory standpoint,it just gets these individuals,
you guys, the information thatyou need to provide higher level
service. Um, guys, I guess. Imean, this was a great episode,
(45:51):
a What? What would you leave theusers with? It's a little like
you left him with a lot, butwhat's just like one piece that
you would leave them with, oryou would highlight, emphasize,
urge them. How can they findyou? We'll wrap it up with that.
Well, you can find me at A, O,data flow.com,
(46:14):
a, oh, not a, oh, it's like a,oh, it's not a, y, O, it's a, a.
My name is Allison o Baker, sothere
we go. A as an Allison o as an OBaker, yes. Hello, yes.
And you know, if you are it justmore so if you are ready to take
(46:34):
that next step of wanting toreally understand the finances
in your business and figure outhow to get to the next place,
right? I'm the good person tobring in when you are thinking
you might want to sell in thefuture, or you really just want
to understand where you're atand understand your numbers in
more you know, tangible terms,that's where I can provide the
(46:57):
value of helping you understandthat and get to that place.
Great. Beautiful Priscilla,so my website is sawgrass
cpa.com and our constructioncompany is build with T, C, i, t
for Thomas evitch, C forconstruction Inc, we, you know,
with sawgrass CPA, we really tryto focus on what the client's
(47:24):
needs are. Recently, we had aclient who is looking to sell
their company within the nextthree to five years, and so we
took an approach, reviewingtheir tax returns, looking for
strategies. And even withoutselling, we were able to reduce
their taxes by $200,000 over thenext year, right? And then
(47:47):
these, these changes that wewould make would fundamentally
change the way they're beingtaxed. There are different
strategies where we shift incometo lower brackets. We look at
their entity selection. Thatmethod of accounting could be
quite a powerful tool. And wealso look for hidden deductions,
(48:08):
things that we would expect tosee on your tax return for a
company of your size, inconstruction, and we don't see
those expenses. So you know whathappened? Perhaps it's so hard
to keep great employees, isn'tit? Maybe you could add employee
benefits. Of course, there willbe a cost, but the tax savings
(48:29):
might reduce the cost. There'seven small business tax credits
for some employee benefit plans.
So we take a look at that, andthen if this client does sell,
we have another strategy thatwill help them reduce the the
cost of the tax, cost of sellingby up to $2 million so we're not
(48:55):
talking about small things.
We're talking about huge changesthat we can make. You might be
able to step away from yourbusiness almost tax free, and
it's just a matter of getting infront of it and planning just
like the building process. Ifyou don't have great plans by a
great architect who responds toyour review comments quickly,
(49:16):
then the whole thing fallsapart, right? So you can have
great intentions, but if you'rejust shooting from the hip, it's
not going to work, you know, forthe long term. But what we do is
a proactive approach to getahead of that, and we've seen
excellent results. Our clientsare really happy.
(49:37):
I don't know why people wouldn'ttalk to you guys. I mean, these,
these are like, these are bignumbers. These are important
things. I mean, I can, I just, Ican just only imagine there's a
builder out there just beinglike, I have no idea what this
means, but I know that I need totalk to these people, like,
because that's, that's, this isso important. This is huge.
Cool. Well, I appreciate youguys jumping on. This was great.
(50:00):
Right everybody. We will beposting more of this on
Instagram. We will be postingwhere to find Allison and
Priscilla. I appreciate you guysfor hopping on. Thank you so
much for taking the timeout of your day. Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah, you're a greathost. You've made us very
relaxed. It was a pleasure.
Just warm conversation.
We have to cheers with ourbeard.
(50:22):
But okay, I've gotten worn out.
Yeah, I've got, I've got my Yetimug. Cheers you guys. Yeah, we
need to bring the beers back.
But yeah, I don't know what I'mgonna be in. I think I'm gonna
be for the International buildershow is in Orlando. I think,
yes, it is this year. We went toVegas last year. Yeah, we were
(50:44):
there. Actually, that wasearlier this year, 25
Yeah, yeah. Well, we'resplitting hairs at that point.
It's already next year. We'realready talking about next I'm
already doingfor next year. So yeah,
yeah, excellent. That Orlandovenue that they're having it at
is a great place for aconference. Well, we'll
have to get beers there, thenwe'll have to get beers there.
(51:05):
And actually cheers if you guysare going, I imagine you are
cool, alrighty. Well, Iappreciate guys. I'll let you
get back to it. And thanks forjumping on. Thank you.
Welcome to builders budgets andbeers. I'm Rhys Barnes and I
(00:04):
started this podcast to havereal conversations about money
in the building industry, thewins, the mistakes and
everything in between. I believebuilders deserve to feel
confident about their finances,and that starts by hearing from
others who've been through ittoo. This industry can be slow
to change, but the right storiesand the right tools can make
profitability feel possible.
Let's get into it.
(00:34):
Alrighty. Team mics are hot.
We're live, not live, we'rerecording. But I really
appreciate both of you coming onbuilders budgets and beers
today. Let's just go ahead andstart with Allison Priscilla,
you guys giving the listeners alittle background on yourselves
and a little intro. Who wants togo first? Who wants to go first?
(00:55):
Allison, Allison, you go first.
So my name is Allison o Baker. Iam the owner of ao Dataflow
consulting. I am essentially anoutsourced part time chief
financial officer for businessesthat are maybe too small, that
don't need full time CFO, butalso still deserve to have that
(01:16):
expertise and helping build yourbusiness, everything I do is
based under the concepts oftrying to help you organize,
simplify and scale yourbusiness. And I tend to kind of
niche a little bit with clientsthat are in the construction
trade space, law firms ormarketing, advertising agencies.
(01:36):
And I come with a background of20 plus years of corporate
finance, accounting, projectmanagement experience.
Very cool. I always like to askjust from corporate I mean, this
is like a trend. You know, a lotof small business owners come on
the podcast. A lot of them havecorporate backgrounds. Who are
you with? Who Where did you getyour experience from a corporate
standpoint,I have worked for a lot of
different industries in thecorporate space, where you're in
(01:58):
investments with BlackRock.
Worked at Siemens energy threedifferent times. They kept
letting me come back and trydifferent roles and a wide
variety there. And those areprobably the bigger names that
people may know.
Okay, cool. So investments atBlackRock, Siemens a couple of
(02:19):
different times. Very cool. Ilove it. Thank you, Priscilla,
your turn.
My name is Priscilla Thomassevich. I'm a CPA. I started my
career out of college workingfor Deloitte, one of the big
four accounting firms, and Ireally enjoyed it. It's the most
glamorous of CPA jobs. However,after a short period there, it's
(02:44):
a lot of work, and I didn't feelthat connection to people, you
know, the owners of the businesswere stockholders. So I really
wanted to get back to my roots,which was small business tax
preparation that I had donebefore college and during
college, and work withentrepreneurs. My husband is an
(03:09):
entrepreneur. We own aconstruction company together,
thomasovich construction, herein South Florida. And so I
really enjoyed that connection.
So after a few years of working,you know, for big firms and
companies, I started my ownpractice. I've been in business
since 2007 and now I specializein tax reduction strategies as a
(03:30):
tax planner,yeah, okay, so coming up on 20
years, congrats, and I can'timagine that you have a lot of
builders that want to reducetaxes. I feel like there's not a
lot of them out there,right? And, well, everyone wants
to pay their fair share. Butover time, I've seen a shift in
(03:51):
what people think is their fairshare. 100 right? Early in my
career, it was a little bit of adifferent climate, politically,
and, you know, in the country,so now people are looking to
take charge of their ownfinances. You know,
totally, totally, no, I love it.
I so a we've got, we've got alot of, we've got a lot of
(04:15):
lineup here. We've got, we'vegot, we've got some, some
subject matter experts, forsure. I love it. Okay, so let's,
let's go ahead and dive inAllison, and just for the
listeners here, obviously,considering, you know, we've got
a fractional CFO, we've got atax and CPA accounting expert
here, a lot of what thisconversation is going to be
(04:37):
revolving around is going to behow to make your business
attractive to buyers, and thenhow to effectively plan for tax
strategies when it comes toselling your business. So I
guess I'll just kick it off.
Allison, I mean, like, whatwould you say is just, you know,
kind of the high level summary,the too long didn't read before
(04:57):
we get into this, in terms ofyou. All builders should build
their financial framework tosell.
Yeah, exactly. So I come withthe experience of working with a
lot of companies that have beenpoised to sell or private equity
ownership, so I understand whatthose potential buyers and
valuations are looking for. Soit's really about with
(05:18):
constructions businesses andtrades businesses, of being able
to start showing a breakout inyour revenue, of what is
recurring versus project based,and how to actually then show
also the backlog of a contractis very important as well. You
want to make sure that you'restarting to get very clean
financial statements for yourprofit and loss and your balance
(05:41):
sheet. So that is organized in away that is very easy for those
potential buyers or valuationexperts to be able to pinpoint
certain metrics that are commonthat they're going to look for,
and that gets to be things likehelping them understand it. They
are not just buying yourrevenue, they are buying the
whole financial story of yourbusiness, and where I come in,
(06:03):
is to help you not be yourtransactional accounting person,
but help you understand how toreset those structures in the
financial pieces your businessto make it ready for when your
time is starting to get somevaluation and buyer interest.
Totally okay. No, this is, thisis, this is going to be
interesting. And I think the onepiece, so I heard so and it was
(06:27):
great. There's a lot of piecesthere, but the pieces that stood
out to me were the project basedrevenue versus the recurring
revenue versus the backlog.
Maybe not verse, but thecombination of those three
combination exactly, where doyou see most builders, whether
they're getting ready to sell ornot? Where do you see them
lagging the most or like nothitting the mark on those three
(06:48):
the most often would it be likethe recurring the project based
the backlog? Where do you thinkthey struggle the most to
understand that? Well,it's definitely harder for
construction and businesses toshow recurring revenue because
much of it is project based,which is why the project and
completion and the backlog is soimportant for projects. But if
there is any pieces, you canstart showing that are more
(07:09):
recurring. That is one thingthat is definitely a high value
area for buyers and valuationsis looking at like what is more
likely, the sustainable,recurring money that's coming
into the business, because thenthey can it comes down to a
little bit more of you're not asdependent on necessarily one big
(07:29):
project to make your revenue forthe year.
Totally makes sense now, whatlike? What are just and I
imagine that the different typesof recurring revenue streams
vary like business by business.
Is this electric? Is thiselectrical company? Is this a
vertical new constructioncompany? But what are just some
What are just some ideas thatyou have heard or that you
(07:50):
suggest for builders to startthinking about to get that
recurring revenue concept goingin their business?
I mean, if they have otherpieces of their business that is
not just straight project based,maybe there is some subbing out
of areas. I actually might leaninto Priscilla a little bit more
for that. Of like, what have youseen in your experience with
your construction business thatmight be able to relate into
(08:12):
that?
Yeah, you know, like everythingelse, construction often comes
down to relationships. We buildrelationships over time. So for
example, if you lock in with afranchise and they have an
expansion plan for growth, thenyou might be the builder for the
next 20 years. Or at least, youknow that the current five to 10
(08:33):
year period to sustain to helpthem, you know, build through
that growth. So that's one waywith relationships. And I think
another really Pinnacle area forgeneral contractors is to have
systems in place where the owneris not necessarily the critical
(08:53):
person that must be there forthings to continue. So as these
relationships develop throughfranchises or otherwise. Maybe,
you know, property managers thatgive you a lot of good leads for
work, or realtors or architects.
You know, we partner with manydifferent people in
construction, but with withoutthat pinnacle person, the CEO at
(09:15):
the helm, will those jobs stilla come in and B, be completed,
you know, as if the owner werethere.
I have never thought of it thatway. And correct me if I'm like,
misinterpreting this, but interms of, like, a recurring
like, viewing recurring revenueas basically building processes
(09:37):
and systems to remove yourselffrom the business. Correct me if
I'm wrong, but that's how theywould view it. Like, if
someone's evaluating yourbusiness to buy it, they're
they're truly looking at thisand being like, if we buy this
thing and we pull John Smith outof John Smith construction, this
thing dies tomorrow,definitely look at that. They
will look at what your biggerclients are, and evaluate if the
main person in that business or.
(10:00):
Owner leaves. Will those clientsleave because that relationship
is dead? Then, in terms of thebusiness structure of it, that
actually is very much somethingthat is looked at of and that's
why, sometimes, when there's asale, they might say, Okay, will
you, as this key personnel, stayon with the business through a
(10:20):
certain transition period sothat they don't have that
immediate droptotally I think that adds some
weight to emphasizing theimportance of building systems
and processes in your business.
It's talked about so much, butthere's not really like a
tangible why that's a prettytangible why.
(10:43):
Right after working with smallbusiness owners for 20 years,
you can start to see the trendswhen you elevate yourself as not
just the technician working inthe business or the manager
overseeing the staff. Youelevate yourself to an executive
role where you have the rightteam in place that works below,
(11:07):
you know, the those executiveowners, then it's sustainable
for the long term, like acorporation.
Totally, totally and view, goahead. Allison, no, I'm just
agreeing, yes, yeah, totally,totally, for sure. And again,
like, I think this all makessense on paper. But where do you
(11:27):
guys see builders typicallystruggle with these concepts?
Again, you could sit across thetable from someone and explain
this to them, they'd be like,this makes a ton of sense in the
world. But where do theytypically struggle making that
shift, that initiative? Is it amental shift? Is
it's a mindset shift? Even in myown CPA firm, I was preparing
taxes, so I had to make thatshift that now I'm leading the
(11:52):
team that prepares the taxes, sothat I can concentrate on
reviewing the tax returns forplanning opportunities and
similarly, you know, aconstruction owner retains those
relationships, but starts tofortify by mentoring. You know,
the next generation that'scoming up that's going to lead
(12:13):
that team. And you know, youwould do that if that were your
son or daughter. You would dothat naturally, right? So it's
some it's similar to that, evenif you don't have a family, that
construction company that wantsto continue without you, you
know the employees that you havecan fill those roles for you.
100% totally. Okay. So I guesseven like so, what is so? What
(12:38):
is? What is your and yourhusband's construction company?
Priscilla, what do you guysbuild? Thomas savage
construction, we do bothcommercial and residential here
in West Palm Beach, Palm BeachCounty, Florida, and our
residential is mostly luxurycustom homes. So we just wrapped
up a project on two acres withover 15,000 square feet, four
(12:59):
separate buildings, a beautifulmodel home. We're getting the
pictures ready for the website.
Soon, I'm gonna be checking themout. That's for sure.
It's really awesome. We alsobuild some things on the water.
Here in South Florida, we have alot of water, so some additions
(13:23):
to, you know, very large homesalready, and then on the
commercial and we do medical,professional new construction.
The office building that we'rein is a new office park with
three buildings, and we occupyone and restaurants and some
franchises as well.
(13:43):
Okay, so you, I mean, you guysare building just about
everything. I love it, yeah,yeah. Um, okay, so even I can't
imagine it just started thatway. I can't imagine that. No,
not at all,technician to manager and now to
this. You know, greatdevelopment, yes,
yeah, for sure. Okay, so whatwere and how long have you guys
(14:03):
been in business, since 20002002 okay. Okay, cool. And so
with that said, I mean, whatwas, what was like, the learning
curve from there, just like, sothe builders can assimilate and
hear it from, like, obviously,like, a very, like, strong
accounting background. Husbandand yourself are running a
(14:24):
construction company. What wasthat learning curve like over
that, that 25 years,it's truly been an amazing
journey. I mean, we started,literally, mom and pop. I had a
tiny little office so I couldmeet tax clients. And, you know,
my husband was out in the field.
He wore a tool tool belt. He,you know, oversaw construction,
(14:48):
and we made a living, and wewere happy. Over time he got,
you know, opportunities to buildbigger things. He needed more
people. We. Utilizesubcontractors a lot, of course,
MEPs, mechanical, electrical,plumbing, of course, yeah, and,
and we fortified relationships.
You know, he always was reallyinto the craft of building. And
(15:12):
so his quality and hisdetermination to get the job
done no matter what, you know,we got a lot of work, quality
work, completed, and people tooknotice of that. And after, you
know, fostering all theserelationships over time, we, you
(15:32):
know, we really started to todevelop a big, a bigger company
and hire more people for theoffice. We had to move out of
the little, you know, space thatwe had about six years ago. We
got a bigger office, and then weoutgrew that. So now we have our
new office here in Lake WorthFlorida.
(15:54):
Okay, I love it well. AndAllison, so you mentioned that
you two work together quiteoften?
Yes, yes. So our littlebackstory is Priscilla and I met
earlier this year at a CPAWomen's Conference. And I'm not
even a CPA, but I crashed andand we just immediately kind of
(16:16):
bonded, and she was looking tobe able to start offering some
CFO services to her clients, andwe have just now created this
kind of, you know, off paperpartnership, and we are really
enjoying the balance of whatboth of us bring to the table.
It's been a great relationshipso far.
Okay, so you guys, I mean, thisis, like, still, like a new
(16:36):
relationship for you guys, likethis, like, we're a year end,
basically, okay, I wanted to askbecause I was curious, like, in
terms of, like, a framework andlike, what would need in place
for, say, Priscilla and herhusband to sell their business.
What would that look like? Doyou work with them on this type
of stuff? Does Priscilla justhave it, you know, in the bag
or, I guess, how would you likeadvise someone like Priscilla's
(17:00):
company to sell. We're notselling. We're not okay, that's
a good one. Why not? Whynot? Well, first of all, I have
a 21 year old son who's studyingengineering,
so he's ready to come in, yeah?
Well, we want to let him go outand take his shot at engineering
first, totally, you know, andsee how that works out, but
(17:21):
clearly, there's a greatconnection with construction and
engineers, right? So over time,our dream would be that our son,
Nick, would, you know, come intothe family business. But
ironically, we have a projectmanager named Nick who is also a
great candidate for leading thiscompany down the future, you
(17:43):
know, so I'm not sure a truePlus, we're not that old,
20 year old company.
About that is about what youwant to do with the rest of your
life. Okay, here's the salespitch. I'm ready, Allison,
but this is a big part of ouridentity, and I bet a lot of
listeners could agree with thatas well,
(18:04):
totally, totally well. And alsofor your son, my wife, she works
for a large contractor, a lot ofengineering. It's kiwit They do
a lot of engineering stuff. Soif he's looking for places,
keywords, an awesomeorganization, yes, okay. But so
back to the frameworks. I thinkAllison, like, what would you
advise, just some, like, somebasic stuff that builders can
(18:25):
look at. I know we talked aboutthis a little bit, but just to
get a little bit more in theweeds here, like, what are some,
what are some of the frameworksof, like, reporting, metrics,
investor valuations, like, whatare some of those things that
that builders should be keepingtop of mind if they want to sell
their business?
Sure. So I'm gonna nerd out onmy thing that most people don't
understand. Which is thechart I'll really yen. If it
gets too nerdy, I'll reel in.
(18:46):
Which is thechart of accounts. So the Chart
of Accounts, accounting systemis essentially the list of
general ledger accounts thatmake up your P and L statement
in your balance sheet. I verybelieve,
yes. I don't mean to ruin yourtrain of thought, yes, but we
talk a lot about Chart ofAccounts cost codes and adaptive
(19:07):
should builders be running theircost codes through their chart
of accounts? Yes. Should they betied to chart of accounts? Or
should their chart of accountsreflect their cost codes?
If I have a strict opinion onthat, Priscilla,
I'm sorry repeat that. Soinstead of having just like a
(19:30):
singular, we'll call it cost ofgoods sold or cost of
construction account, okay,should they have just one cogs
account that their cost codesare mapped to? Or should, or
shouldconstruction, right? So we have
divisions of construction, yes,17 there. There could be, I
(19:51):
think, up to 34 or something.
But we use 17 for generalconstruction, and we match
revenue. And expenses throughthe division codes, great.
Okay, so you're looking at like,17 line items or codes,
yes, on a job, project basis. Ifyou want to roll up your P and
(20:13):
L, your profit and lossstatement, then yeah, you don't
want to bore the details there,the reader with the details
there. So maybe you snap that upinto one cost of goods sold.
Yes, okay, okay, cool. Andthat's where I was always
curious, because I think there'sa lot of conversation on Chart
of Accounts. I love that. Thatwas, like, the first thing you
brought up Allison, because thatis so important. And like, we
(20:35):
talk about, we talk about Chartof Accounts, we talk about cost
codes. And, like, justunderstanding, like, what
information does a cost codegive you versus what is a chart
of accounts give you, right? Andhow does everything play in
tandem? Okay, I digress. Butthank you. I wanted your take on
that, yes, so. And essentially,it's like it really is starting
with that, like splitting outyour revenue by, like, what is
project versus, you know,different types of things you
(20:56):
should not if you're looking atyour P and L and there's one
income account and one Cost ofGoods Sold account you're
already failing andunderstanding the financials of
your business. So you want tobreak those out in a way that it
is gives you value in data andhelps you see seasonality and
trends, but not so deep that itis too onerous on the person
actually doing the transactionalaccounting and categorizations.
(21:19):
So it is very making sure thatyou are properly putting things
in the cost of goods sold area.
I come across a lot ofcompanies, not necessarily in
the construction business, butin other trades and other
businesses that don't understandwhat cost of goods sold or cost
of sales at all, and understandthis direct cost to produce your
revenue, and they just have itin operating expenses. And so,
(21:42):
like, that's one of the firstthings I do is, like, we need to
move these up, and then it's andthen creating your operating
expenses in more bucketed areasof categories, and putting it in
a way that you are seeing yourlargest and fixed groupings
first and then go down into morevariable cost and more
discretionary, and that helpsthe owners and the key personnel
(22:03):
be able to start understandingwhere are the areas that we
cannot have any impact on theexpenses, and what are the areas
where, maybe for having a littlebit of cash flow situation or
whatnot, that we can maybe, likereduce cost temporarily. So it's
identifying it in areas andbuckets that make it a little
(22:24):
bit more easy for that. And tohelp you start doing a budget.
And if you're not doing abudget, you need to do a budget.
Yeah, Allison has been reallyinstrumental with the clients
that we work with together inshowing them how to
(22:45):
differentiate betweendiscretionary expenses that you
could abandon if necessary orchange, versus fixed expenses
and fixed costs that like rentthat you're stuck with a
contract, you know, and sothat's been really helpful. And
we pair that with the budget. Soher work, you know, in the
(23:09):
budget and forecast helps theclients to kind of plan for
the future, yeah, so, and I'lljust say a couple more metrics,
and throw it over to Priscillaof then what I kind of help
reset things in that way of thefinancial framework. Help them
understand gross margin by theirservice lines. Help them
understand EBITDA. EBITDA ingross margin percentage are two
(23:32):
of the main numbers that a buyeris going to look at. And so help
it gets so that your financialstatements are clean in in that
way, and also in a way thatmakes it easier for the tax
preparer to find deductions andareas of where they can make
some adjustments. So then I kindof help reset the things, help
(23:52):
them understand the metrics, theanalysis, do budgeting and
forecasting, and then bring in,and then Priscilla's and her
team are really the ones thatlike, Okay, we're going to take
it to the next level and lookingat the tax piece of it. So I'll
throw it over to you. Yeah.
So we take a look at youroverall profit and loss, your
(24:13):
tax returns, your balance sheet,to look for opportunities. What
we really try to get to also isthat I do a lot of listening to
clients. I want to understandtheir goals for their future and
where they spend their money,and then we try to determine,
based on the, you know, theinformation that they share with
(24:34):
us, perhaps there's a placewhere money is going after tax
that we could rearrange to bebecome a tax deduction legally.
Of course, you know, all withinthe the confines of the IRS
Code, for example, if you'repaying medical expenses outside
(24:56):
of your tax deductions, becausein in many such. Situations,
they're not deductible, orthey're not useful in a
deduction, you can't reach thelimit in which you need to reach
to start deducting them. Butthere are some strategies we can
implement at the business levelwhere medical deductions for
employees could be deductible.
So you know, it could besomething simple like that, or a
(25:19):
more complex strategy, sometimesthe entity itself, the type of
entity you have, an S corp, a CCorp, a partnership. They all
have pros and cons, and there'sso much nuance in tax, meaning
whatever works for you and yourbusiness may not be the exact
(25:39):
situation for your neighbor oreven your business partner.
Sometimes, you know a businesspartner has a spouse who earns
significant income, or they havelosses that you don't have,
whatever it is, everyone's youknow, different customized and
so we try to understand yourparticular situation, and then
(26:02):
how does the tax code work bestfor you?
Why does it have to be soconfusing?
I've spent my whole careertrying to figure that out,
right? I don't write the law. Icertainly would never write
something right?
I'm just like, I'm saying. I'mjust like, Gosh, why? Like, I
(26:24):
mean, I feel like there's just,like, a lot of like, small
businesses out there that wouldjust be like, can you just tell
me what I need to do? Or is thatbasically what you guys do after
these conversations? Yeah, yeah,that's what you guys do. It's
just together we canand if I can't, I'm part of a
network of over 700 certifiedtax planners like me, so I can
bring it to the larger group,and we can work on more complex
(26:47):
issues together.
Totally. Okay, cool. Okay, sowith tax and all this stuff, so
we just rolled out a whipfeature in our product. I've
been talking to a lot of, like,the top 100 accounting firms
about, like, introducing whip totheir clients to accelerate
this. And from a tax and anassurance standpoint, it
(27:09):
certainly has its like, interestpoints, obviously. Allison, you
had talked a little bit about,like, budgeting and recognizing,
you know, these types ofrevenues. How does WIP get
involved in your guys' day? Isthat a metric that you guys run,
is that a reportthat you guys can I take this
one,run it? Yeah, yeah. This is open
forum. That's one of myfavorites. And work in progress.
(27:30):
We have a schedule. You have tofollow the schedule. It's based
on your estimate. If yourestimates not great, if the
estimated profit is not reallyaccurate, or even if it was
accurate, but things changed, itdoesn't lend itself easily to
forgive, you know, issues thatcome up later that may arise.
(27:54):
Another thing we're allowed todo in tax is select our own
accounting method, and sothere's more than just WIP if
you're talking about auditedfinancial statements. This may
not pertain to that, but for taxpurposes, you can be a
relatively large constructioncompany and be on the cash basis
(28:17):
of accounting if you choose todo that, so you would only pay
tax when you have the money inhand, which is instrumental,
especially in early years,especially if you take deposits.
I'm sorry if you do takedeposits, it's the opposite.
Then you want to be on anaccrual basis, which is
something more like wimp there'salso new a new legislation and
(28:41):
one big, beautiful Act thatallows for completed contract
method of accounting, which isreally exciting for us. I'm
sorry I get excitedabout No, I want to hear more.
Keep going. This is great.
You're doing great, butcompleted contract method allows
you to wait until you actuallyknow whether or not you made
money on that job in beforeyou're required to pay the
(29:04):
taxes. So they've, they've madesome changes to allow more
taxpayers to be able to utilizethese different methods, and
that might be part of yourstrategy that works, you know,
to reduce your taxes today, tofree up some of that cash so
that you can make smartinvestments in either your
(29:27):
business or whatever it is thatyou're looking to do, you know,
down the road, totally.
I mean, so obviously, like whipsounds like a no brainer, but
why? Like, why? Why is whip kindof this, at least from my
experience, why is it kind oflike this, like, big elephant in
the room? Like, people know whatit is, but they don't really
talk about it, or they struggleto get it, and they, like, don't
(29:49):
really know how to make businessdecisions on it. Where do you
see builders struggle with whipjust calculating it, filling out
those spreadsheets,understanding what it means. We
start again. We start with theestimate. And you know, you do
an estimate for two reasons,first, to try to figure out what
your cost is, but secondly, towin a job. And you know,
(30:09):
sometimes you're up againstother builders and you really
want this work. And you knowsometimes your estimates, not
the greatest, but you thinkmaybe down the road there might
be some change orders, we couldpick up a little profit or, you
know, whatever happens so, butwe're stuck to your original
(30:30):
estimate and your profit marginfrom that estimate. So, you
know, it's got, but it'sgenerally accepted accounting
principles that requires that.
So you know that that's ourstandard. When I said for
audited financials, for CPAs,okay, but again, for tax, you
(30:53):
have different options. And evenwhat Allison does is more of
managerial accounting, which isfor the management of the
business, so we could reportwithin the company on a
different basis, so that wereally see things clearly, and
then we only comply with auditedfinancial statements or tax
(31:17):
returns On a different method.
Okay, so I guess, how do youleverage web Allison? Or do you
in your world?
I don't too much, because thewhere this is why Priscilla and
I work so well together isbecause definitely more of the
visionary, strategic and thesetting the framework in the
(31:39):
budgeting nerd. Okay, where sheis that actual, like,
transactional accountant and taxstrategy person. So that's why,
like, I'm not necessarilylooking at WIP too much. I'm
helping figure out where areyour goals and where are we
trying to get to. And let'sbuild you an operational budget.
But then also, let's put in somestretch goals of where you're
(32:01):
trying to go, and then helpingon a repeated basis of doing
some reporting and and visuallyshowing and giving the advice on
how we're getting there.
Totally okay, well, and so maybethat was short sighted on my
end. Like, when you hadmentioned budgeting, kind of to
Priscilla's comment is, like,with estimating, right? Like,
how much of that, like, ofbudgeting is estimating, at
(32:22):
least in the construction world.
When you talk about budgeting,like, let's give the listeners a
little bit more detail in termsof what that actually looks like
and like when you sayoperational budget, like, what
is when you sit down with a newclient, what does that look like
establishing that budget?
Yeah. I mean, obviously itdepends on the industry. It's
very industryspecific. We'll talk about
construction. Let's focus onconstruction. Yeah, I mean,
(32:42):
like, so for the constructionside, it really is kind of like
mapping out, you know, one ofthe construction companies I
work with, they're still on anewer end, and they are very
dependent right now on when theyget, you know, the upfront from
the bank to be able to start ajob. And then it's looking at
whether, whether they are takingprofits throughout, or whether
(33:04):
they have to wait towards theend. So we kind of just talk
through what does that looklike, and kind of mapping out
what we think the start time isgoing to be. How many months
would that be? What type ofother profit sharing payout may
there need to be along the way?
Kind of estimating them fromtheir their estimation tools of
what is the direct cost as well.
(33:26):
So we kind of layer it likethat, and try to be a little bit
conservative in what we'reputting in. And then it's really
then where we can make a littlebit more of a tangible
adjustments, is in the operatingexpenses area of how much is the
salaries? How much are wespending in certain other areas
of professional fees, ormarketing and advertising for
(33:49):
the business? And really kind ofhelping them understand in those
areas, what is the percentage ofsales that you are budgeting
towards those areas, and arethose in the benchmark areas of
where your business should be.
So like biggest thing is alwaysmarketing and advertising if you
are in whatever business cycleyou're in, if you're in growth
mode, that's a different set ofpercentage that you should be
(34:11):
spending and marketing andadvertising to be bringing in
more revenue and pipeline.
Totally, totally okay. What aresome other like? So marketing,
advertising, for sure, if you'retrying to grow your you're
trying to grow your business,you can invest more there. What
are some other areas thatbuilders should consider based
on the season of businessthey're in?
You know, those are some of thebigger ones. You want to also
(34:33):
make sure that you're notspending too much in. You want
to spend some on professionalfees, right? You want to make
sure that you are set up withpeople who are helping you try
business. But if you're hiringconsultants, and I will say this
even for myself, I try topresent myself in a way that I
am not a cost center. For you, Imake my turn myself into a
(34:54):
profit center. You know, there'sone client that I started
recently working with a couplemonths ago, different in your.
Street. But in the span of twomonths of working with them,
those two months of what weoriginally budgeted for them in
revenue, they surpassed it bylike $30,000 so I'm like, right
there. I'm already right ifthere is already paying for
(35:14):
myself in value, and it's hiringpeople that are going to be that
piece of you that are aninvestment in your business that
you're going to get a return ontotally go ahead. Priscilla, I
think on this note, sometimeswhen you hire professionals who
point things out to you andtrain you a different way of
thinking, you start toautomatically start thinking
(35:35):
that way yourself. I noticedthis with my tax planning
clients, I point out things thatmight be deductible they weren't
thinking about. And sure enough,a couple of weeks later, I get
phone calls, hey, what aboutthis? I'm going on a golf
outing. I'm doing this, youknow. Can we make this more of a
tax reduction thing? Then, youknow? So they're starting to
(35:58):
think on their own, and I thinkthat's what Allison's help does
you know? They come into themeetings, they start to train
themselves, to look, you know,at their financials differently,
like a professional would. It'skind of like a training ground.
It absolutely is, I definitelysaid that's a big piece of what
(36:19):
I'm doing is trying to educatethose key personnel on what to
be looking for in theirfinancials. And it does in the
long run, I do. I get clientsthat come back and be like, Oh,
hey, what about this? And like,Oh, hey, I noticed this wasn't
right. What do we do with it?
You know, like, and they getexcited when they realize that
they understand it more. Andlike, that's what brings me joy,
is knowing that I am helpingpeople understand and have
(36:42):
financial clarity and moreconfidence in the numbers in
their business. Yeah,and we're intimately involved in
the details of a client'sbusiness, right? So there's not
that many people who know asmuch about you as we do, and so
we become kind of your partner,you know, and that's why, that's
why it works so well with themom and pop construction company
(37:04):
between, you know, my husbandand myself, and that's the same
type of relationship that Istrive to give my clients,
something trusted, you know,something intimate, that they
can share details And togetherwe can discuss what the best
path forward would be. So webecome kind of a partner in your
business, but you get to keepthe whole business.
(37:28):
Yeah, of course, of course,yeah, you guys aren't asking for
percentages, or maybeyou are. It really is personal,
like you said it, and it's likewe're trying to help them feel
the emotions of money, becausemoney is very emotional. Can be
traumatic to certain people, butwe become your trusted people of
don't feel shame, and what youdo know and don't know we're
(37:49):
here to help and educate, andlet's help you make the
unemotional decisions on themoney piece of where you're
going,right? We might sound smart
here, but you don't want mebuilding your house.
Yeah, we all have our skills. Weall have our skills and 100%
(38:13):
Well, and that's okay. So Ithink I've got two questions
here. So like, first, how shouldbuilders be focusing on, from
like a budgeting standpoint,what they do spend, call it
annually, on professionalservices. And then the second
is, is, where do you typicallysee builders become the most
hesitant or resistant to workingwith you guys? Is it typically
(38:36):
like they're not ready for thattype of service? They're not
thinking, Is there something youguys can do
to motivate a really goodexample with a client we share
who had someone in house, andthey were relying on that
person. That person left theirjob. And so what we did was come
in somewhere close to the salaryon a part time basis. They have
(38:58):
staff in the office who's ableto do the daily activities. This
person that left their positionwas more of a controller, which
is the person who oversees theaccounting department, so we
could come in as CPAs and helpthere, and if the price is
(39:18):
reasonable, compared to what youwould pay for a full time staff.
There's no benefits. There's noreal agreement. You know, we
have an agreement to worktogether, but if at some point
you move forward and you want tohire someone back into your
office full time, you canreplace the position with an
employee. So, you know, it'svery flexible. And again, no
(39:41):
benefits. So I would say foraccounting, outsourcing and
overseeing financialinformation, you could consider
what you might pay a controller,which would shift, you know,
from market to market based onI. Okay?
So a lot of a lot of it is justlike understanding, even just
(40:03):
like the the cost of theemployee or the individual,
right, and not having tooversee, you know, when you hire
us at sawgrass, CPA, we havefive different people on your
team. So we have a, you know,staff accountant, we have a
controller level person. We haveAllison now as the CFO for our
(40:23):
clients, and then you have me aswell, and I left one out. We
have two staffs so, so you getvariety in case something
happens for the day to someone,there's someone else to back it
up. There's always a response.
You know, we don't call in sickto the client, and so you get
more without sourcing than youwould. Of course, there are
(40:48):
things that you can have anemployee do that we're not
physically there in your office.
There is that exchange, but, butit works really well for the
clients who are growing, maybenot quite ready to hire that
full time. You know fivedifferent people, but they do
need the work, you know. So it'sa good way to get started. And
(41:10):
through your budget, you'reactually placeholding for those
positions in the future. You're,you know, you're spending those
funds make sure that it'scomfortable before you commit
and hire someone who's going tomake it their life's work,
and you're actually better valuebecause you're getting, you
know, five heads with differentexperience that are coming and
(41:32):
helping you, versus one personin that
role, right? And overseen by aseasoned professional, you know,
and that I find my clients to beexcellent business people in the
field. They have goodoperations. They know how to run
their business. They know how tomake money, no doubt. But the
(41:53):
financial part is often not forthem, and that's okay, you know,
we kind of speak both languages,and we translate what the
numbers mean. The numbersliterally tell us a story. The
reason why Allison and I clickedwas because I, you know, she
came to my office, I opened thescreen with numbers, and she
(42:13):
explained to me what that meant,and I said, You are awesome.
Thank you.
I love it. I love it.
Just need you to do my taxes andfind me more savings.
Exactly, yeah, actually, I thinkI need my taxes. You need to be
done still too. So hello, we'reat September 10 today. I know, I
know. Is it September October?
What is it? What arethey doing? Individual filing
(42:36):
deadline is October 15. Butwe're still within, you know,
yeah, we've got time. Okay,cool. So I think, like, I mean,
it's like, a really strong case,of course, um, I think in terms
of, like, the budget that theyshould allocate for this. And I
say this because I think, ofcourse, like you mentioned,
(42:57):
Priscilla, the, you know, morelike the intermediary role of
like a business that's growingbut might not be able to build
out the whole team or doesn'tneed the team, but I'm even
thinking, like, even from likean advisory standpoint or just a
service standpoint, how do youadvise your customers to think
about building in professionalservices into their budget, and
what's reasonable for them toconsider, like a software it
(43:18):
could be anywhere from like, oneTo 5% of their overall budget
could be allocated to softwarecost, right? I didn't know if
you guys had a number or asuggestion for them to consider,
of like, what's reasonable?
I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm not sureit works quite like that. I
think for us, especially if youhave a pay applications, payment
(43:38):
applications, AIA, document, youneed a professional to help you
with those types of documentsfor your building, your billing,
rather and so, you know, if youhave those bases covered in your
office, you know that's great ifyou don't, those are really
(43:59):
important Things that will holdyou back from earning the money
that your potential that you'reable to do. So the way that we
approach things, especiallyparticularly with tax reduction,
is that we look at the valuewe're bringing to the table, and
like Allison said, it must be aninvestment if I can't save you
(44:19):
any money in taxes. Well, thenI'm not really worth a whole
lot, right? So the value comesfrom when there's the connection
and we can do something to saveyou significant amounts of tax,
and then our services pay forthemselves.
Yeah. Okay. Have either of youseen adaptive, the product, our
(44:44):
product. Iattended the scbc last year, and
I met you, and I did see it. Ireally wait we met, because I
last year it was 2024 Yeah, upin Orlando, we went. We went for
the Okay, great. I asked, just.
Because, like, when you're whenyou're talking about, like, AIA,
like, I'm just, like, still, wejust rolled out. Like, AIA,
you just rolled it out, becauselast year, yeah, do you have
(45:09):
that? Yeah, yeah, we do. Nowwe talked about what I met you
at this year's. Seb was like,I'm looking for a software that
has that for one of myconstruction clients. They don't
need it yet, but I wanted to seewhat it was going to look like
in the future. Okay, well, we'llshow you guys. Yeah, we'll bring
it we'll bring it back around.
We'll bring it back around,because we definitely have it
now. And to your point, it'slike, it's a huge challenge to
(45:31):
do all these things, but that'sjust like, it's one of those.
It's like a piece of the puzzlethat prevents you from getting
to where you actually need tobe, from a tax prep standpoint,
from a CFO advisory standpoint,it just gets these individuals,
you guys, the information thatyou need to provide higher level
service. Um, guys, I guess. Imean, this was a great episode,
(45:51):
a What? What would you leave theusers with? It's a little like
you left him with a lot, butwhat's just like one piece that
you would leave them with, oryou would highlight, emphasize,
urge them. How can they findyou? We'll wrap it up with that.
Well, you can find me at A, O,data flow.com,
(46:14):
a, oh, not a, oh, it's like a,oh, it's not a, y, O, it's a, a.
My name is Allison o Baker, sothere
we go. A as an Allison o as an OBaker, yes. Hello, yes.
And you know, if you are it justmore so if you are ready to take
(46:34):
that next step of wanting toreally understand the finances
in your business and figure outhow to get to the next place,
right? I'm the good person tobring in when you are thinking
you might want to sell in thefuture, or you really just want
to understand where you're atand understand your numbers in
more you know, tangible terms,that's where I can provide the
(46:57):
value of helping you understandthat and get to that place.
Great. Beautiful Priscilla,so my website is sawgrass
cpa.com and our constructioncompany is build with T, C, i, t
for Thomas evitch, C forconstruction Inc, we, you know,
with sawgrass CPA, we really tryto focus on what the client's
(47:24):
needs are. Recently, we had aclient who is looking to sell
their company within the nextthree to five years, and so we
took an approach, reviewingtheir tax returns, looking for
strategies. And even withoutselling, we were able to reduce
their taxes by $200,000 over thenext year, right? And then
(47:47):
these, these changes that wewould make would fundamentally
change the way they're beingtaxed. There are different
strategies where we shift incometo lower brackets. We look at
their entity selection. Thatmethod of accounting could be
quite a powerful tool. And wealso look for hidden deductions,
(48:08):
things that we would expect tosee on your tax return for a
company of your size, inconstruction, and we don't see
those expenses. So you know whathappened? Perhaps it's so hard
to keep great employees, isn'tit? Maybe you could add employee
benefits. Of course, there willbe a cost, but the tax savings
(48:29):
might reduce the cost. There'seven small business tax credits
for some employee benefit plans.
So we take a look at that, andthen if this client does sell,
we have another strategy thatwill help them reduce the the
cost of the tax, cost of sellingby up to $2 million so we're not
(48:55):
talking about small things.
We're talking about huge changesthat we can make. You might be
able to step away from yourbusiness almost tax free, and
it's just a matter of getting infront of it and planning just
like the building process. Ifyou don't have great plans by a
great architect who responds toyour review comments quickly,
(49:16):
then the whole thing fallsapart, right? So you can have
great intentions, but if you'rejust shooting from the hip, it's
not going to work, you know, forthe long term. But what we do is
a proactive approach to getahead of that, and we've seen
excellent results. Our clientsare really happy.
(49:37):
I don't know why people wouldn'ttalk to you guys. I mean, these,
these are like, these are bignumbers. These are important
things. I mean, I can, I just, Ican just only imagine there's a
builder out there just beinglike, I have no idea what this
means, but I know that I need totalk to these people, like,
because that's, that's, this isso important. This is huge.
Cool. Well, I appreciate youguys jumping on. This was great.
(50:00):
Right everybody. We will beposting more of this on
Instagram. We will be postingwhere to find Allison and
Priscilla. I appreciate you guysfor hopping on. Thank you so
much for taking the timeout of your day. Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah, you're a greathost. You've made us very
relaxed. It was a pleasure.
Just warm conversation.
We have to cheers with ourbeard.
(50:22):
But okay, I've gotten worn out.
Yeah, I've got, I've got my Yetimug. Cheers you guys. Yeah, we
need to bring the beers back.
But yeah, I don't know what I'mgonna be in. I think I'm gonna
be for the International buildershow is in Orlando. I think,
yes, it is this year. We went toVegas last year. Yeah, we were
(50:44):
there. Actually, that wasearlier this year, 25
Yeah, yeah. Well, we'resplitting hairs at that point.
It's already next year. We'realready talking about next I'm
already doingfor next year. So yeah,
yeah, excellent. That Orlandovenue that they're having it at
is a great place for aconference. Well, we'll
have to get beers there, thenwe'll have to get beers there.
(51:05):
And actually cheers if you guysare going, I imagine you are
cool, alrighty. Well, Iappreciate guys. I'll let you
get back to it. And thanks forjumping on. Thank you.
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