November 6, 2025 • 49 mins
This week we dig into the Enneagram with coach and podcaster Jennifer Stanley to trace behavior back to core motivation, revealing how nine types, three centers of intelligence, and one core need organize the choices we make—often without noticing. That clarity opens a door: once you see the engine driving your habits, you can steer toward a life that feels aligned rather than reactive.
Jennifer breaks down the differences between surface behavior and inner motive, showing how a room-reading Type Three and a power-protecting Type Eight can look similar from the outside but live from very different “whys.” We talk blind spots—like a Two’s pride in being needed or an Eight’s pull toward intensity—and how naming them turns autopilot into awareness. From there we get practical: why online tests can only narrow your type, how to spot your center of intelligence (head, heart, or gut), and simple questions that create space between urge and action.
Midlife takes center stage as Jennifer shares Intermission, her cohort that blends deeper Enneagram work, retreat, purpose statements, and private coaching to help women co-author Act Two. We honor Act One for what it taught, make peace with changing relationships, and set boundaries that let us care for aging parents without losing ourselves. Wellness stays grounded in real life—seasonal, personal, and type-aware—whether that means CrossFit, yoga, long walks, or protecting unstructured weekends. If you’re craving a clearer map, kinder relationships, and a next chapter that fits, this conversation offers both language and tools to start now.
Jennifer's Book Recommendation: “The Road Back to You" by Suzanne Stabile
More about Jennifer:
Jennifer Stanley is a life coach and Enneagram expert who helps people see the hidden patterns shaping their lives and relationships. Drawing on years of experience guiding teams and individuals, she brings fresh insights and practical tools that spark “aha” moments and lasting growth.
Whether in private coaching, leading a workshop, cohort, or keynote, Jennifer weaves wisdom and story to inspire authentic leadership, connection, and change. As a former theater performer turned coach, she loves helping others step into their own second act with clarity and confidence.
Jennifer lives in Indiana with her husband and has two grown children. She enjoys skiing, travel, long dinner conversations with friends, community theatre, and volunteerism — always bringing creativity and connection into every part of her life.
https://www.instagram.com/livingwellbyjen/
https://www.facebook.com/LivingWellByJen
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-stanley-68337613b/
https://www.youtube.com/@LivingWellbyJen
House of JerMar: houseofjermar.com
Empowerment Fundamentals Course: Use Code PODCAST15 for a 15% discount
https://members.houseofjermar.com/empowerment-course
Instagram: instagram.com/houseofjermar/
YouTube Channel: youtube.com/@Houseofjermar
Read Jeanne's Book: Two Feet In: Lessons From an All-In Life
WELCOME TO OUR HOUSE!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
What the Enneagram is, is I will say it is a
framework for understandinghuman motivation and behavior.
And it is also a wisdom for howto chart a path of personal
growth.
So, to break that down just alittle bit, the Enneagram looks
at the subconscious.
(00:21):
It taps into the subconscious.
And so it really is not justtalking about the behavior of
people.
It's really getting underneaththe behavior as to why we behave
the way we do.
SPEAKER_02 (00:34):
Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where
wellness starts within.
The House of Germar is alifestyle brand empowering women
to live all in through interiordesign and personal wellness.
We are a destination for womenready to reimagine what is
possible in their homes andlives and then create it.
(00:55):
We are honored to have you joinus on our mission to empower one
million women to live all in.
I am your host, Gene Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
Hello, everybody, and welcome tothe show.
I am Gene Collins, and this weekwe are going to talk to a dear
friend of mine, JenniferStanley, and I am so excited
(01:16):
that she is taking the time tobe on the show.
We are in a life coachingprogram together, so that's how
I know her.
And she is the queen ofEnneagram, of which I knew
nothing about.
I know just a smidge, so she'shere to share it with you.
And she also is a life coach,just like me.
And one of the things that Ithink is so important that I
want to share, which is one ofthe reasons why I want her on
(01:37):
here, is that so many of us arelife coaches, but we all have
unique niches and we all haveunique specialties.
And so we can all actuallyreally play really well in the
same sandbox and support eachother because we all kind of
help different people atdifferent times and our
backgrounds impact who we are aslife coaches.
So I really want to share whatshe's working on because I think
(02:00):
for some of the people thatlisten in, it is really
impactful.
Plus, Enneagram, so cool, guys.
So, Jennifer, welcome to theshow.
Thank you so much.
I love your show.
So it's an honor to be here.
Oh, well, thank you.
And I will note, I'm gonna putthis in the show notes, but
Jennifer also has her ownpodcast, everybody, Living Well
with Jen.
And I give her so much creditbecause she does that show all
(02:21):
by herself and just talks.
It's so cool.
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Well, it's uh the podcast I run, speaking of the
Enneagram, is just it's allabout the Enneagram.
And I try to do nine minute orless episodes.
So to be fair, it they're veryshort episodes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:40):
Still, it's still work, and you like do a lot of
them.
So it's still work, and we'regonna touch on that.
All right, before we getstarted, can you give us a
little bit of background aboutyou, who you are, how you got to
be a life coach, how you gotinto Enneagram, where you live,
a little about who you are sothat people can understand some
context behind you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I come to you from Indiana,born and raised here.
And I have an interestinghistory with the Enneagram
because, you know, it just kindof showed up in the United
States.
It was developed in Europe.
It showed up in the UnitedStates in the 70s.
Okay.
(03:18):
Well, my parents actuallylearned the Enneagram in 1989
and brought it home.
And I'm like, you know, 15 yearsold at the time, and I think my
parents know nothing cool, ofcourse.
But then they come home andthey're like, we have learned
about this really interestingframework for understanding
(03:38):
humans, and it's called theEnneagram, and they like showed
it to us, and I was soenthralled with it, even way
back at 15 years old.
And that was really before itwas before it was cool, I guess.
You know, before it was memes onInstagram and all the things.
My parents happened to bestudying with a spiritual
(03:59):
formation group and somebodyfrom California.
Anyway, it's just so cool how itgot to me at such a young age.
Now, fast forward 30 years, whenI was in my mid-40s, I really
found myself in a season of justkind of feeling a little lost in
my identity, in my purpose.
You know, I had poured myselfinto a career, I had poured
(04:22):
myself into being a mom.
I had poured myself into someministry work.
And all of a sudden, as I havefound happens with most women in
midlife, there was kind of amoment where I was like, now who
am I again?
Like, what am I doing here?
What is my what is my purpose inthis world?
And so I really had to take sometime to reflect on all of that.
(04:48):
And one of the first things thatI did was go back to the
Enneagram.
You know, I had not beenstudying it in my, you know, 30s
and 40s, but it was just kind ofalways floating around there,
just kind of the knowledge Ihad.
And it wasn't a very deepknowledge.
It was very shallow knowledge atthat time.
But I thought, you know, I'mgonna go back to this tool that
(05:09):
I know can be effective forhelping me understand myself in
a deeper way.
And so that was actually thefirst part of my personal
intermission and becoming, youknow, really getting really
intentional about what I wantedto create in the second part of
my life.
And so that's just a briefoverview of like how I kind of
(05:30):
reconnected with the Enneagramand why it has been just a
really impactful tool in mylife.
SPEAKER_02 (05:38):
Yes.
Okay, so for people who don'tknow, what is it?
Because I will be honest, I hadabsolutely no idea I joined this
coaching cohort with you and youstarted talking about it, and
everybody knew what you weretalking about, and I had
absolutely no idea.
And I was like, wow, I kind offeel like I'm sort of connected
in the personal wellness and allthe tests and all that.
(06:00):
I kind of felt like I knew whatI was talking about with most
things.
And this one I had absolutely noidea.
So I'm gonna assume that a lotof the people listening have
absolutely no idea what it is.
So what is it?
SPEAKER_01 (06:11):
Yeah, and that's totally fair because as I said,
it really hasn't even been aframework that people have used
for, you know, for very long inthe United States in its current
form.
So, what the Enneagram is, is Iwill say it is a framework for
understanding human motivationand behavior.
And it is also a wisdom for howto chart a path of personal
(06:38):
growth.
So, to break that down just alittle bit, the Enneagram looks
at the subconscious, it tapsinto the subconscious.
And so it really is not justtalking about the behavior of
people, it's really gettingunderneath the behavior as to
why we behave the way we do.
So I love tools and assessmentsand I love all the things.
(07:02):
Like if it if it can give memore insight into my life, like
I'm here for it.
It's it's they're great tools.
So many of them are actuallymore focused on the behavior of
the person or okay, you'rereally motivated to be
successful and I'm reallymotivated to be successful.
But those motivations might bevery, very different underneath
(07:23):
the surface.
The reason why we are driving tobe a successful person could
come from a multitude ofdifferent places.
And so that's what I love aboutit.
So I'll say, like, well, okay,who in the room is a people
pleaser?
And you know, almost everybody,the women will raise their
hands.
And I'll say, so does that meanwe're all the same?
We're all people pleasers.
(07:44):
And it's like, no, like thereason why someone else is a
people pleaser and this personis a people pleaser is because
we're all motivated and tryingto find something that is
different.
And so I love it so much becauseit goes to the subconscious.
It's actually not a great ideato take an online test.
I know a lot of people do.
(08:05):
And maybe what the onlinetesting can do is help you
narrow your number down.
There are nine numbers.
The test can help you likenarrow them down, but only you
can know what your actual innermotivations are.
And so that's where the coachingpiece comes in really handy to
have someone to kind of help youwalk through how you truly
identify your number.
(08:26):
I can meet with somebody and Ican get to know them, but I
actually can't tell them theirnumber because that's something
that only they really haveaccess to is that inner
motivation.
SPEAKER_02 (09:23):
Yes.
And you and I did meet.
And at the end, you were like,okay, you're either this number
or that number.
And I can't remember, I'm eithera three or an eight or a three
or a five or a five or eight.
It's one of those, one of thosethree numbers.
And you're like, I don't knowwhich one you are.
So you need, you know, and yousent me all this research and
stuff to read, which I'm aterrible student at the time.
You sound out.
(09:43):
I was so busy that I didn't readit, but I will, I will.
Before this comes out, I will.
And so it was interestingbecause you did say that same
thing that it is up to mebecause they were similar and
the descriptions of them weresimilar.
And even some of the othernumbers, I was like, oh yeah, I
can I can see myself being likethat.
Yes.
But then it was, and correct meif I'm wrong about this, it was
(10:04):
really like, okay, but what isthe strongest?
Like, what feels the strongestin terms of innately why you are
the way you are?
SPEAKER_01 (10:14):
Yes.
And I love thinking about thenumbers as colors.
And so I'm a very visual teacherand a very visual learner.
And so when I think about thecolors with the numbers as if
they are colors, I think aboutthe way that all the colors kind
of blend together.
And you could be looking atpurple, but you know that purple
(10:35):
has so many components of othercolors in it.
And this is the way theEnneagram works within us.
Like we're gonna relate to lotsof numbers because we actually
have a touch of everythingwithin us.
The key is to go deeply intowhat is the motivation and is it
(10:56):
coming, which center ofintelligence is it coming from?
So, you know, I don't know howdeep you want to wanna go on
this particular, you know,interview.
If I don't want to bore anybodyout of the room, but you know,
the numbers come from the threeareas of intelligence.
So they come from the thinkingcenter.
So are you processing the worldthrough thinking?
Are you responding to the worldwith that thinking lens on as
(11:19):
the strongest?
They also come through the heartcenter.
So are you heart centered takingin the world through emotional
and relational connection andresponding to the world in that
way?
There's numbers that come fromthat center, and then there's
numbers that come from the gutcenter, which is instinct, which
is doing, which is activation onevery level.
(11:40):
Like you don't need to thinkabout it or feel about it.
You just do it.
You know, you just know it anddo it.
So, you know, we kind of startthere and then we branch out
into, okay, well, if you feellike you are primarily thinking
your way through life, then, youknow, let's look at these three
numbers.
And we can do it in a hundredways.
We can look at the humanessential need that is within a
(12:02):
number.
And those would range fromsafety and security, affection
and esteem, and power andcontrol.
So I say to people all the time,we all want all three things.
Like we all want to be safe andsecure, have power and control,
have affection and esteem.
It's not that we don't want allof them, it's just that there's
one that is the engine of thebus.
(12:22):
Like it is the one that is justit's it's the engine in the bus
of life that's really driving.
And so somebody's striving forsuccess to go back to that
example, could be coming from aplace of this is what makes them
feel powerful and in control.
Another person's could besuccess is a result of wanting
(12:44):
to feel really safe and secure.
And then another person'smotivation towards success could
be this is how I feel worthy andesteemed.
And so you cannot just look at,oh, every successful person out
there is this, because what'sdriving it is that that
childhood story, the way we wantand need what we're out there
(13:06):
looking for.
SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
Which is so fascinating.
SPEAKER_01 (13:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:09):
Okay, so the three and the eight, where do they
fall?
Where do the three and eightfall?
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
So the three is gonna fall in that emotional
heart center.
So the three is gonna be ableto, they're gonna see relational
connection first and foremost.
They're gonna be able to read aroom really well.
And what happens with the threeis as soon as they read the
room, they can shape into whatthey need in that environment to
be successful.
What do I need to talk about?
(13:36):
What do I need to make sure theyknow that I know about?
What do I maybe I need to look aparticular way?
Maybe I need to.
You can basically chameleon as athree to be what the situation
requires.
And that's how you end upfeeling it's a relational and an
emotional center.
So it's basically kind of tryingto prove that I'm worthy that
(13:58):
that underlying drive.
For the eight, it comes from aplace of really wanting power
and control.
And the eight can walk into aroom and they will say, when
they walk into a room, they willsay, okay, who's in control
here?
And they'll they'll figure itout, and then they'll decide
whether or not that person isallowed to be in control of
(14:22):
them.
And they may be in the room andand look like they're following
along, but inside they'resaying, you know, you're not the
boss of me.
I am the boss of me at alltimes.
And it's because that's how theyfeel a lot of power and control.
So I can usually ask a three andan eight, do you care what other
people think about you?
And I'm not talking about yourinnermost circle of people you
(14:45):
love the most.
I'm talking about, do you kindof care that the Uber driver
likes you on the drive or thecheckout cashier?
Because I'm a three and I couldsay, yeah, okay, deep down, I do
kind of just want everybody inthe world, you know, to like me
because it's that relationalcenter.
The eight is like I could careless.
SPEAKER_02 (15:07):
Like I am a screaming eight if those are the
two moments.
SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
I want my people to love me and I care what they
think, but do I care what arandom?
No, I do not.
And so that's a really fun wayto kind of look at the two
numbers.
It's a perfect example.
SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
It's an absolutely perfect example because I'm
listening to you talk and athree, and I was like, okay,
like maybe sort of.
And then you get to the eight,and I was like, oh yeah, no,
that is like that is so muchmore me.
Just that is that is just moreme and how I behave.
So then let's we'll just use meas an example.
Let's say, you know, wedetermine I'm an eight.
(15:42):
Then what how do you help peoplewith that knowledge?
What do they do with thatinformation?
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Oh man, Gene, I love, I love that you thought to
ask this question because thereare so many accounts on
Instagram that are absolutelyadorable.
I love them, I follow them thathave all the fun Instagram
memes, like, you know, if I werea sweater, this is what I'd be,
(16:08):
and like all the numbers, youknow, or if I was a Starbucks
drink, or it just there's somany fun, silly ones.
But as with any tool orframework, if it isn't helping
you live a better life, become abetter version of yourself, if
it isn't serving as a guide or amap to accessing like the most
(16:31):
authentic parts of you, thenit's like, well, okay, it's
really interesting, but like,what's the actual point?
So the first thing that we do inEnneagram work is that we really
get we uncover the motivationand the blind spots, the things
that are tripping us up withinour own number.
(16:52):
And so it's it's a kind of aself-awareness first type of
thing.
If I know what is kind of tryingto sabotage me in the
background, then when ithappens, I can see it, I can
address it.
But most people, this is crazyto me, but most people actually
have no idea what's going on inthe subconscious.
(17:15):
But all we have to do is bringit to the light just a couple of
times.
And then all of a sudden it'slike, oh, I see it now.
It's like when you get the redcar and then you see all the red
cars.
So, you know, I'm gonna go to adifferent number.
I'm I'm gonna go to theEnneagram two.
So, what the Enneagram Two isknown as a helper.
They're always jumping in,helping everybody else, usually
at the expense of their ownneeds and taking care of
(17:37):
themselves.
And so when we illuminate to theEnneagram two, that it is
actually pride that is drivingthis constant need to make
everybody else happy.
It's a need to feel important,it's a need to be needed, the
need to be needed.
Like when we illuminate that,yeah, it's a little painful at
(17:59):
first, but usually, you know, wekind of we like to call it like
the we're letting people in onthe on the joke.
Like, so we try to we try tolaugh a lot and just go, I mean,
do you see it?
And then it's like, oh my gosh,yeah, I see it.
You know?
And so once you see it, then thenext time you're jumping in to
do something that is over theline, no one's asked you to do,
(18:21):
and you will go, oh, oh shoot,pride is here.
What am I wanting?
And then you ask a fewself-aware questions.
Is this mine to do?
How do I know they want my help?
Like those are some of thequestions then we equip you with
to make sure that there's notsomething running in the
subconscious that's literally,especially for the Enneagram
too, literally almost killingthem because they're doing so
(18:46):
much.
And we can go, wait, hold on.
This isn't the best, this isn'tthe highest use of your gifts of
who you were made to be, of whoyou're capable of being.
Pride is trying to sabotage you.
So that's just like one example.
And you're probably curious foruh the eight, right?
Yeah, sure.
Why not?
So the eight, that littlemonster that is kind of trying
(19:06):
to self-sabotage the eight iscalled lust for intensity.
And so it is a need toexperience in an intense kind of
way.
And so we know we'll play thatout, we'll show it, and then all
of a sudden it's like, wait, whyam I this project actually
requires a six?
(19:27):
Why am I going at it at an 11out of 10?
You know, yeah.
And it's it's just that constantdrive for intensity, and it
often causes you to maybe pushaway people that are trying to
come close to you.
So that's an example.
SPEAKER_02 (19:47):
Couldn't be more true to me personally.
unknown (19:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
And I kind of can twist that to be like, okay,
sort of like an overachiever.
It's like, okay, why at onepoint in time do I feel like I
need to redo my profile onLinkedIn and redo my profile on
Instagram and oh, update myentire website, and oh, change
the about page.
And like I very quickly getmyself down this like rabbit
(20:12):
hole of work that is notnecessarily the best use of my
time at that point in time to bedriving forward the initiatives
that I have.
And I have to have a veryserious awareness of that, given
an entrepreneur, because I veryquickly can be like, oh my God,
I love this.
(20:33):
I want to write a book.
I'm gonna spend all this time.
I'm gonna write a book, I'mgonna self-publish a book.
And now, you know, it's like Iget myself down these little
paths, and everything has to belike big too.
There it is.
SPEAKER_01 (20:43):
Everything has to be big.
SPEAKER_02 (20:44):
Everything has to be big.
That's everything has to be big.
SPEAKER_01 (20:46):
That's it right there.
SPEAKER_02 (20:47):
Everything has to be big.
Everything has to be big.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so fascinating.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
Yeah.
So it's really insightful whenyou can just start to like peel
back the layers.
And it's not just the thingsthat are sabotaged.
I mean, it's also the thingsthat you're gifted to do and the
ways to utilize your number andand make it work for you and not
against you.
So like those are really, reallygood things.
Do you think it would be helpfulif I just said the sort of the
(21:13):
title of each of the ninenumbers?
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely, you know, isobviously wait.
Okay, I don't think I'm thethree or the eight.
They're kind of talking.
Yes.
So in a word, the number one iscalled the reformer.
And the number one is constantlylooking out into the world and
within themselves, seeing whatcould be reformed, seeing what
(21:34):
could be improved, seeing whatcould be better, and then
feeling a sense ofresponsibility to fix it.
Yeah.
The number two is called thehelper.
And they are looking forrelational connection through
helping and serving.
So do they love helping andserving?
Yes, they totally do.
What is the actual driver forthat help and serve is they want
(21:57):
to be connected to people.
They need people and connectionand they sense that the only way
they're allowed to have that isif they can be super helpful or
serve somebody.
The three is called theachiever.
And the three is looking toperform and achieve efficiently
and successfully.
And, you know, the three avoidsfailure.
(22:21):
And so what makes me really sadabout my experience as a three
and what I'll often talk withother threes about is, you know,
a three will look like they havea lot going on.
They can get so much done andthey do things that they're very
successful at because that's avery that's how they're proving
their worth in the world, right?
Like, well, if I'm successful,then I'm worthy.
(22:42):
Okay.
How many things does the threereally want deep down to do, but
they're too afraid to trybecause they're afraid they will
fail?
So my favorite question to athree is like, what are you not
doing?
SPEAKER_00 (22:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
I see that you've done all this successful stuff,
but like, what's on your heartthat you're not doing?
Because you're so afraid you'regonna fail.
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
And that's a powerful question.
SPEAKER_01 (23:01):
The big thing for me.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
Yes.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
The uh four is called the individualist, and
the four wants to be seen andknown.
They are the most emotional ofthe nine numbers on the on the
Enneagram scale, and they willthey want to be known so
authentically and so uniquely,but they also believe that
everyone else is equally asunique and they want to know
(23:24):
them in an authentic way too.
The five is called theinvestigator.
This is our deep thinker.
This person can, they're lookingfor safety and security.
They're in that that thinkingspace.
And so they are going to be ableto take lots of information and
analyze it and make it makesense.
And the five is constantlysearching to be very competent
(23:48):
and be very independent throughtheir knowledge.
The six is called the loyalist.
The loyalist, they want to dotheir responsibility, their
duties, their obligations.
They are always scanning forrisks.
They are able to do worst-casescenario thinking better than
anybody.
And uh, they sometimes struggleto trust themselves, but they
(24:09):
are out there looking for safetyand security through being
prepared, being responsible,having seven backup plans.
Like that's their that's theirway of being very safe and
secure.
The seven is called theenthusiast, and they want to
avoid pain.
So the enthusiast is like, let'sjust have a good time.
(24:30):
I they want to have a ton ofoptions out there because if
anything gets too painful, theywant to move on to the next one.
They're so fun to have around.
However, they're so quick toavoid pain, and that's the pain
of being bored, the pain ofmundane things, and pain in
relationship or you know,parenting.
(24:52):
I mean, it it's a it's ablessing and a curse, really.
It is so that's the seven.
SPEAKER_02 (24:58):
The eight I know some of those.
SPEAKER_01 (25:00):
You do.
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
The uh the eight we call thechallenger, and this is just the
I'm gonna exert enough energy sothat nobody will will try to
control me.
The eight just simply does notwant to be controlled.
They don't have to be in controlall the time, but they will not
be controlled by someone else.
(25:20):
And then the nine we call themediator.
They are the one that is lookingto kind of control the world
around them by making sureeverybody on out here is okay
and not rocking any boats.
Their favorite phrase is like,let's not rock the boat.
Oh, that would take too muchenergy to enter that conflict.
It's easier to just stay quiet,go with the flow, and don't rock
(25:42):
the boat.
SPEAKER_02 (25:43):
I love that because as you're talking, there's some
of them where I'm like, Yeah, Icould see how I could be like
that in certain situations.
And others, I'm like, there'sabsolutely none of that in my
personality at all.
Yeah.
So it's so fascinating.
It is.
All right.
So, how do you then take thatand apply that in the coaching
(26:03):
world?
I think I know how you do thatbecause I understand what you do
as a coach, but how does thattransition happen and how are
you using that tool to help youas a life coach?
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
As a life coach, I have clients that are highly
familiar with the Enneagrambecause maybe they've gone
through one of my classes ormaybe they've self-taught
themselves through, you know,books and podcasts and all the
things.
I also have clients who don'tknow the Enneagram, don't know
their number.
And to be honest, because theEnneagram is my specialty, I was
(26:37):
a little nervous, like, well, amI going to be able to coach well
somebody who doesn't speak thissame language?
And the truth of the matter isI'm able to use my lens and my
knowledge to maybe see some gapswhere where I don't have to
label it in the Enneagram wordsin order to maybe ask or kind of
(26:59):
talk, explore, bringing out,like, hey, do you think fear is
at play here?
And I might know in my mind,like why I've chosen fear
because of the way it fits intothis framework of the Enneagram,
but don't necessarily have tohave the framework in order or
the same language with theclient in order to work with
them.
Now, I love, love working withcohorts of women who have gone
(27:25):
through a deep dive with theEnneagram and then kind of
putting that together.
And that's that's what I wasmentioning earlier before we got
on this call here was that Ihave a new programming and it's
called Intermission.
And so it actually blends thisdeeper Enneagram work with
community and with privatecoaching, and it works
(27:48):
beautifully.
So it's sort of all of ittogether.
SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
All right.
So share what that is because Ithink intermission and I think
like midpoint in life, maybe ata pause, maybe at a break.
You tell me what does that meanto you and to the people, you
know, who are the people thatjoined such a thing and such a
cohort?
And I'm gonna do what we'retaught not to do in coaching.
I'm gonna ask you two questionsat once because I know you can
(28:12):
remember.
Like, what does it mean to mean?
Who are the type of people tojoin?
And then what is a cohort?
Like, what is entailed in that?
What does that even mean?
Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (28:24):
So we've been friends for about, I don't know,
all of 2025, at least, anyway.
Yes, in our in our coachingworld.
I don't know if you know thisabout me, but I am a musical
theater girl.
So I I studied musical theaterin college.
I worked on cruise ships aftercollege was over.
(28:45):
I've done a lot of musicaltheater.
I love the storytelling thathappens in musical theater.
I'm drawn to stories, I'm drawnto transformation.
I love the way that theater canbring those things to life.
Okay.
So fast forward then to thatmoment in my life when I was in
my mid-40s and going, who am I?
Why am I here?
(29:06):
What am I doing?
I was approaching that emptynest timing.
I could see it like very clearlyright in front of me.
About to happen.
And I just thought, what?
Is it over?
Like, is my is are the bestyears of my life behind me?
Because these two children thatI love more than anything.
(29:26):
I mean, like, they're gonna fly.
And what does that mean to me?
And I just I needed anintermission.
I needed a pause in my story.
And so what I have found is thatmost women at some point in the
middle of the story in themidlife, which I mean,
(29:47):
technically, is it right in themiddle?
I hope so.
I hope we all live to be 90 or100 years old.
But somewhere between like 45and 55-ish, there comes this
point when it's like, okay, actone feels like the story is it
was really good.
And, or maybe it was reallyhard, or maybe it was really
(30:08):
inspiring.
But what in the world?
What does act two look like?
Do I have to just sit back andwatch it happen?
Do I just wait and see and go,well, I guess time will tell, or
do I get to actually be anactive co-writer and co-author
of Act Two of Life?
Yes.
And so Intermission asks thisquestion and women, it's
(30:31):
limited.
I do three cohorts a year.
It's limited to 12 women.
And we kick off with the deeperEnneagram work.
We start that first.
We we kind of get to know eachother through doing some private
little Enneagram.
Classes where we figure outeverybody's number and then I
teach, you know, some of thosebig concepts with Enneagram.
(30:53):
Then we go on a retreat.
This is my favorite part becausewe just did one in the most
beautiful area of Indiana in thefall.
It was just gorgeous in southernIndiana.
In the spring, when it's snowinghere, we are going to head to
Arizona and do the retreat insunny Arizona.
So we we travel, we go on aretreat together, and that's
(31:16):
where we get, we write ourpurpose statements.
We applaud Act One.
We take what have we learned?
What does Act One give us thatwe would not have if we had not
lived through what we have livedthrough?
Wherever we are now, whetherthat's brink of that's
recovering from divorce orwhether that's widowhood or
emptiness, whatever it is wherewe are now, what have we been
(31:38):
given from Act One?
And how can we applaud that andbe grateful for it?
And then how can we get reallyintentional about act two?
So we take the work and we go, Iknow who I am now, I know how
I'm wired.
I I know how I'm wired, and Iknow my unique purpose
statement.
That's a huge piece of theintermission experience.
(31:58):
Sure.
Yes.
And then we go on the retreat,we bond, we have monthly cohort
meeting and then privatecoaching to really customize
that co-authoring of Act Two tothe individual.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
Yes.
That sounds so powerful.
It's been really fun.
Do you change every time you doit?
Do you feel like you sort ofevolve in like a tiny little
way?
You learn something new aboutyourself too.
100%.
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Yes.
100%.
SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
Yeah.
It's one of the gifts ofcoaching, is that I feel like we
we grow as our clients grow, wegrow too.
I learn from my clients everyday.
It's amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (32:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's one of the gifts ofself-awareness too, and of being
willing to like go there andlearn more about yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (32:48):
You value that.
I know that about you.
And I think you said on a recentpodcast, like sometimes you grow
and you grow and you becomeself-aware.
And then all of a sudden youlook around and you're like, oh,
wait, the people I'm with didn'talso grow.
unknown (33:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
That can be really hard.
But it's, you know, it's it'sthe reality of if if there are
people that are investing inknowing themselves and their
purpose and their life better,and those that aren't, there's
gonna be a natural, a naturalseparation.
SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
It is.
I love how you phrase it as anact one and an act two, because
I also try to look at it as someof those relationships, like
they served a purpose at thattime, that stage that you were
in in life, or or that act, ifwe want to use the same
terminology, is like thosepeople served a role in that
act.
And just because they're notpart of the next act doesn't
(33:40):
diminish the role that theyplayed in the first act.
It just means that thatcharacter just is not part of
the story anymore.
And I think coming to thatrealization helps us get, at
least for me, it helped me findpeace in the people that had
sort of moved out.
And then you need that peacebecause then you can start to
recognize the people that movein for act two.
(34:03):
And yeah, they look different.
And that's cool, and that'sokay.
You know, it's like that they'reserving a purpose.
And many times the people I lookat right now that are in my act
two, they wouldn't have fit inact one.
Like they just they probablywouldn't have actually fit with
me and that person that I was inact one.
(34:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (34:24):
Like you weren't ready for each other at that
point, right?
Both yeah, yeah.
And the beauty of it is everyoneis invited to grow.
Like growth, awareness, it's nota club that's close.
Like anybody can do it.
It just takes it's a littlescary, and it's you know, it's
(34:45):
super humbling to be willing tolike look in the shadows and go,
ugh, yeah, I don't love thatabout myself, but I'm willing to
look at it because I know that Ican grow and and shift and
change.
But yeah, I love that what yousaid about the characters in Act
One serving a role, and I thinkthat's why it's important to be
(35:07):
grateful.
SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
Because it might not have felt like a gift at the
time, but our development, theway that we become who we are,
is a result of all the chaptersbefore us.
SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
All of them, right, yes, and with so many different
players as well.
I think there are a lot ofpeople that are in that age
group of the intermission, likeyou talked about, who are going
through a divorce.
And that's really hard too, orchanging careers, or having
parents become people that theyare now caregivers of, which is
like a whole new role as a humanbeing.
(35:43):
And those are just differenttimes and require a lot of inner
reflection and growth work and alot of soul searching to figure
out who am I now, because myrole has potentially changed as
well.
My identity has changed.
SPEAKER_01 (35:58):
Yeah.
And, you know, I think a bigcaution to anybody that's in
this stage of life of you're notfully raising your kids anymore.
I mean, you'll always be theirparent, but you know, maybe
you've you've empty nested orthey're they're young adults.
If you don't get clear on,again, who you are and why you
(36:21):
walk the planet, then that same,that raising the kids energy
that kind of got maybe kind ofgot you sucked in, it will just
transfer to taking care of yourelders.
And you have to be able to carefor your loved ones in a way
that honors them withoutdiminishing who you are this
time.
(36:41):
Yes.
Like you get to you get to bewho you are, and you get to have
ownership of that and take careof others because that's the
cycle of life, but withoutsacrificing your whole self.
SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
Agreed.
You get to matter.
SPEAKER_01 (36:57):
Thank you.
You get to matter.
SPEAKER_02 (36:58):
That is absolutely you get to matter, yes.
And I just saw you into Greecerecently, and that is definitely
a I matter kind of trip.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:10):
Wait, my husband and I celebrated 25 years of
marriage.
We fested this fall.
I turned 50.
So, like, we had all kinds oflittle celebrations like piled
up, and so we we celebrated onthat trip, and it was wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (37:27):
It looked amazing.
Highly recommend.
It looked so incredible.
Yeah.
So let's switch gears.
I want to just talk aboutwellness for a little bit
because, like you said, the theclub is not closed for people
who want to do some personalgrowth work.
And I think there's a verycommon trait among people who
are in this club, which iswellness matters.
(37:48):
However, they want to definewellness, wellness, mind, body,
spirit matters.
And some people are muchstronger on one of those mind,
body, spirit spectrums, or oneis like much stronger in their
lives than the other.
But wellness matters to most ofthe people that I've met and to
every podcast guest I have.
So if you wouldn't mind, whatdoes wellness look like in your
life?
And how do you keep those thingsbeing a priority in life?
SPEAKER_01 (38:13):
What a great question, coach.
Wellness to me is a lot aboutthe balance of priority.
So, and I know there is no suchthing as perfect balance.
Like you're not, you're not 33%balanced in spirit, 33% body,
33% in mind.
Like I understand that.
(38:34):
When I am out of balance, I feelunwell.
And so I could be rocking it inmy physical health.
But if my spiritual health is inthe tank, I don't feel well, you
know?
And so that's the game, right?
Of trying to figure out how do Icreate enough margin to care for
(38:57):
this one body and one life andone soul that I get to have
while I walk the planet.
So on a more practical level,it's just being very mindful of
what I how I nurture myself.
So water, walks, reading, takingsome time off on the weekends.
(39:22):
I I used to never take a dayoff.
I do a lot better at taking aday off now.
So it's like what is filling meup?
Because it's just those littlesmall steps that make the
biggest difference for me.
They do.
They do.
SPEAKER_02 (39:37):
Yes.
And as you said, for you, andit's important for everyone to
find the thing for them.
And I feel like one of thethings that we are both
fortunate to do as coaches andas podcast hosts and all the
other things we do is just toexpose people to the things that
are out there.
And you need to figure out andfind the thing that's right for
(39:57):
you and to bring it back fullcircle to Enneagram.
You know, based on your number,there might be some things that
are going to resonate morestrongly with you than others.
And and lean into that asopposed to trying to be like
round circle square peg.
You know, everybody else says Ihave to go to the gym and uh
sweat and run and do a marathon.
(40:19):
And that might not be your jam.
And that's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (40:22):
Yeah.
And how often I think seasonschange too.
You know, I used to be really, Iused to really love CrossFit.
And like that was like my thingfor a while.
And now I just really like yogaand walks.
And I sometimes I'm like, issomething wrong with me that I
don't want to like do that?
And it's like, no, it's just anew season for me.
SPEAKER_00 (40:43):
Yes.
Uh that's true.
SPEAKER_01 (40:45):
Yes.
I actually did a whole series onhealth and wellness, like around
your number.
And again, you just take thesame framework and you filter it
when you look at your fitness oryour wellness or your weight
loss or your spirituality,whatever, and you go, Oh, okay.
Yep, that's motivating to me.
(41:05):
That's a draining.
This is uh gonna be rewarding,and that I'm not gonna care
about.
You know, it so you're totallyright that in the world of the
Enneagram, it can be sobeneficial for all matters,
parenting, friendship, stress,relief, all of it.
SPEAKER_02 (41:24):
Do you use chat?
This is a total side subject,but something that just occurred
to me.
Do you use chat GPT to help ortell your clients to use chat
GPT to help them understandtheir number and how it applies
to life?
Or no, because chat is just sucha broad algorithm of pulling
data together.
SPEAKER_01 (41:43):
Yeah, I was just having this conversation
yesterday and I would say no.
So I will use it to help mestart to brainstorm, like for
podcast episodes or somethinglike that.
And so I find it a healthybrainstorming tool for me.
But when I go through it and Iactually am looking at what it's
(42:04):
suggesting, it's not, it's notaccurate enough in my mind.
So not yet.
I don't think it's accurateenough yet to really.
That's why I'm asking.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (42:14):
That's why I'm asking.
Because I'm a huge, I use chat,but I feel like it has a time
and a place.
And I think sometimes in somesituations, people tend to rely
on it too much.
SPEAKER_01 (42:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (42:24):
And it doesn't personalize things enough for
them.
You know, like there are peopleout there that could say, What
do I need a life coach for?
I have Chat GPT.
SPEAKER_01 (42:33):
You know, and I'm like, it's kind of not exactly
the same thing.
It's not, it's not, it's notcustomized, it's not taken into
account.
Yeah, there's just, it's justnot deep enough yet.
So like you could learn at avery high level.
You could learn about yourself.
But there'd probably be a fewthings that are like, yeah, no,
that's not really a thing.
(42:54):
And there'd probably be, youknow, it'd be an okay place to
start, but it's definitely, Iwould, I would rather somebody
go to podcasts with, you know,Enneagram people that spend
their time studying andcoaching.
The thing with the Enneagramthat's so cool is when you study
it in a community and you canhave such a blast of no of
(43:15):
learning from the other numbers.
Because I think there'sbasically three relationships
that the Enneagram really helpsyou nail.
That is the relationship withyourself, yes, relationship with
other human beings.
So your family members, yourcoworkers, just your community,
but then also your relationshipto your, you know, to God or the
(43:37):
universe or however you want to,you know, word that it's like
because we are relational humanbeings and we are created in
relationship and forrelationship, it just seems to
me like it is such a high-valuerelationship tool.
And so when you're studying ittogether, I have had more times
than I could count.
(43:58):
Somebody will say that they'rehaving a really hard time with
either a best friend or ahusband or somebody.
Then someone in our cohort isthe same number as that said
best friend or said husband.
And they go, Oh, well, likehere's the way I think about it.
And then the person is like,What?
That's what they're thinking.
Oh my gosh.
And then their compassion andtheir it's like the disconnect
(44:20):
kind of goes away because theyhave a just a better
understanding.
So all of that to say that was along answer to say chat is not
human.
So I really think having a humanteaching it is is best.
So podcasts, books, classes,cohorts, things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (44:34):
I love it.
All right.
So you mentioned podcasts.
So we're gonna come back towhere we started.
Okay.
What made you decide that youwanted to do your own podcast?
SPEAKER_01 (44:43):
Two two two primary things.
First, people ask me a lot ofquestions about the Enneagram.
You know, they they kind of knowthat that's that's my thing.
And so they'd say, well, whatabout like this?
And so I thought to myself, youknow, that would be a fun thing
for me to just talk about andjust have out there for people
(45:03):
to consume.
It's something they could accessfor free.
They don't have to sign up foranything.
So I just thought, I think itwould be nice to be able to have
my own voice in the Enneagramconversation out there.
unknown (45:16):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (45:16):
And then the second reason is frankly, because I
it's so important to me as atool that has transformed my
life and many of the people thatthen I work with.
And I also just there's not toomuch out there.
I mean, there's a lot if youreally go down the rabbit hole,
(45:37):
but I just really want morepeople to know it from a
practical standpoint, which iswhy I only do nine-minute
episodes.
I'm like just a little dose ofEnneagram wisdom for the day,
you know.
And so I do like an introepisode, and then I'll just do
one episode per number, nineminutes or less, and just a
(45:58):
little, little Enneagram bite,bite-sized pieces, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (46:03):
And it's just a great way for people to get
exposed to what it means.
How do you apply it?
What do you do with it?
See if your interest is peakedto then take it to another
level.
It's practical.
I want it to be practical.
Practical.
It's very practical.
And so Living Well by Jen,everybody.
Yeah.
Everywhere people can findpodcasts?
Everywhere.
Yep.
(46:23):
YouTube and all the platforms.
I love it.
We will put it in the show notesas well.
Thank you.
Okay.
So before we run out of time,I'd love to ask every one of my
guests if they have a book thatthey would like to recommend
that has impacted thempersonally or professionally.
I am a true believer that bookschange lives.
So what book or books?
Some people can't narrow it downto one.
What book or books would youlike to recommend to the
(46:44):
listeners?
SPEAKER_01 (46:45):
I think I'll recommend the first book I ever
read about the Enneagram when Iwas coming back to it in my
mid-40s.
Uh, and it's called The RoadBack to You by Suzanne Swabiel.
And it's a book.
You do have it?
SPEAKER_02 (47:02):
I no, I don't have it, but I've heard of it.
And I didn't know it was aboutthe Enneagram.
It is about the Enneagram.
SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
And it's very digestible.
So it is for like the Enneagrambeginner, which is why it's one
of the ones I recommend whenpeople are first getting
started.
SPEAKER_02 (47:16):
Okay.
I'm gonna have to get that onebecause I do try to buy all the
books that everybody recommendsand read them as well.
Ah, all right.
Before we sign off, how canpeople get in touch with you?
What's the best way to find you?
And I will put this in the shownotes too, but some people don't
go to the show notes.
So how can people get in touchwith you, follow you, find you?
SPEAKER_01 (47:33):
So Living Well by Jen on Instagram, YouTube,
Facebook, and LinkedIn.
And, you know, I read all my DMsevery single day.
So if you just message me, Ipromise it's me and not a chat
bot on the other side.
Um, I'm not that, you know, notthat cool yet or something.
I don't know.
I I love having conversationswith people that are actually
(47:57):
listening to the podcast andsuch.
So the best way to, if you havea question for me is simply just
shoot me a message.
I'll reply back to you.
SPEAKER_02 (48:04):
Yes.
And I do, I'm with you.
I I handle all my own socialmedia and I respond to
everything.
And I think it's it's just apart of my business that I don't
want to give up because thatpersonal connection with the
people on the other side is sonice.
And it's just nice for them toknow that there's actually a
real human being and not a robotor not an admin that is
responding to their questions orwhatever they have to say.
(48:25):
So thank you for that.
Uh, Jen, you are a dear friend.
Thank you so much for explainingEnneagram to everybody.
Your coaching program is sounique.
I put it all in the show notes.
I really encourage people toreach out to Jen, whether you're
interested in learning aboutEnneagram or you're interested
in her cohorts, is she's doingsome really amazing work.
And I thank you for that.
And everybody, stay tuned untilnext week.
(48:46):
Have a beautiful day.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of the House of
Germar podcast, where wellnessstarts within.
We appreciate you being a partof our community and hope you
felt inspired and motivated byour guest.
If you enjoyed this episode,please write us a review and
(49:08):
share it with friends.
Building our reach on YouTubeand Apple Podcasts will help us
get closer to our mission toempower one million women to
live all in.
You can also follow us onInstagram at House of Germar and
sign up to be a part of ourmonthly inspiration newsletter
through our website,houseofgermar.com.
If you or someone you know wouldbe a good guest on the show,
(49:32):
please reach out to us atpodcast at houseofgermar.com.
This has been House of GermarProduction with your host, Gene
Collins.
Thank you for joining our house.
What the Enneagram is, is I will say it is a
framework for understandinghuman motivation and behavior.
And it is also a wisdom for howto chart a path of personal
growth.
So, to break that down just alittle bit, the Enneagram looks
at the subconscious.
(00:21):
It taps into the subconscious.
And so it really is not justtalking about the behavior of
people.
It's really getting underneaththe behavior as to why we behave
the way we do.
SPEAKER_02 (00:34):
Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where
wellness starts within.
The House of Germar is alifestyle brand empowering women
to live all in through interiordesign and personal wellness.
We are a destination for womenready to reimagine what is
possible in their homes andlives and then create it.
(00:55):
We are honored to have you joinus on our mission to empower one
million women to live all in.
I am your host, Gene Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
Hello, everybody, and welcome tothe show.
I am Gene Collins, and this weekwe are going to talk to a dear
friend of mine, JenniferStanley, and I am so excited
(01:16):
that she is taking the time tobe on the show.
We are in a life coachingprogram together, so that's how
I know her.
And she is the queen ofEnneagram, of which I knew
nothing about.
I know just a smidge, so she'shere to share it with you.
And she also is a life coach,just like me.
And one of the things that Ithink is so important that I
want to share, which is one ofthe reasons why I want her on
(01:37):
here, is that so many of us arelife coaches, but we all have
unique niches and we all haveunique specialties.
And so we can all actuallyreally play really well in the
same sandbox and support eachother because we all kind of
help different people atdifferent times and our
backgrounds impact who we are aslife coaches.
So I really want to share whatshe's working on because I think
(02:00):
for some of the people thatlisten in, it is really
impactful.
Plus, Enneagram, so cool, guys.
So, Jennifer, welcome to theshow.
Thank you so much.
I love your show.
So it's an honor to be here.
Oh, well, thank you.
And I will note, I'm gonna putthis in the show notes, but
Jennifer also has her ownpodcast, everybody, Living Well
with Jen.
And I give her so much creditbecause she does that show all
(02:21):
by herself and just talks.
It's so cool.
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Well, it's uh the podcast I run, speaking of the
Enneagram, is just it's allabout the Enneagram.
And I try to do nine minute orless episodes.
So to be fair, it they're veryshort episodes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:40):
Still, it's still work, and you like do a lot of
them.
So it's still work, and we'regonna touch on that.
All right, before we getstarted, can you give us a
little bit of background aboutyou, who you are, how you got to
be a life coach, how you gotinto Enneagram, where you live,
a little about who you are sothat people can understand some
context behind you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I come to you from Indiana,born and raised here.
And I have an interestinghistory with the Enneagram
because, you know, it just kindof showed up in the United
States.
It was developed in Europe.
It showed up in the UnitedStates in the 70s.
Okay.
(03:18):
Well, my parents actuallylearned the Enneagram in 1989
and brought it home.
And I'm like, you know, 15 yearsold at the time, and I think my
parents know nothing cool, ofcourse.
But then they come home andthey're like, we have learned
about this really interestingframework for understanding
(03:38):
humans, and it's called theEnneagram, and they like showed
it to us, and I was soenthralled with it, even way
back at 15 years old.
And that was really before itwas before it was cool, I guess.
You know, before it was memes onInstagram and all the things.
My parents happened to bestudying with a spiritual
(03:59):
formation group and somebodyfrom California.
Anyway, it's just so cool how itgot to me at such a young age.
Now, fast forward 30 years, whenI was in my mid-40s, I really
found myself in a season of justkind of feeling a little lost in
my identity, in my purpose.
You know, I had poured myselfinto a career, I had poured
(04:22):
myself into being a mom.
I had poured myself into someministry work.
And all of a sudden, as I havefound happens with most women in
midlife, there was kind of amoment where I was like, now who
am I again?
Like, what am I doing here?
What is my what is my purpose inthis world?
And so I really had to take sometime to reflect on all of that.
(04:48):
And one of the first things thatI did was go back to the
Enneagram.
You know, I had not beenstudying it in my, you know, 30s
and 40s, but it was just kind ofalways floating around there,
just kind of the knowledge Ihad.
And it wasn't a very deepknowledge.
It was very shallow knowledge atthat time.
But I thought, you know, I'mgonna go back to this tool that
(05:09):
I know can be effective forhelping me understand myself in
a deeper way.
And so that was actually thefirst part of my personal
intermission and becoming, youknow, really getting really
intentional about what I wantedto create in the second part of
my life.
And so that's just a briefoverview of like how I kind of
(05:30):
reconnected with the Enneagramand why it has been just a
really impactful tool in mylife.
SPEAKER_02 (05:38):
Yes.
Okay, so for people who don'tknow, what is it?
Because I will be honest, I hadabsolutely no idea I joined this
coaching cohort with you and youstarted talking about it, and
everybody knew what you weretalking about, and I had
absolutely no idea.
And I was like, wow, I kind offeel like I'm sort of connected
in the personal wellness and allthe tests and all that.
(06:00):
I kind of felt like I knew whatI was talking about with most
things.
And this one I had absolutely noidea.
So I'm gonna assume that a lotof the people listening have
absolutely no idea what it is.
So what is it?
SPEAKER_01 (06:11):
Yeah, and that's totally fair because as I said,
it really hasn't even been aframework that people have used
for, you know, for very long inthe United States in its current
form.
So, what the Enneagram is, is Iwill say it is a framework for
understanding human motivationand behavior.
And it is also a wisdom for howto chart a path of personal
(06:38):
growth.
So, to break that down just alittle bit, the Enneagram looks
at the subconscious, it tapsinto the subconscious.
And so it really is not justtalking about the behavior of
people, it's really gettingunderneath the behavior as to
why we behave the way we do.
So I love tools and assessmentsand I love all the things.
(07:02):
Like if it if it can give memore insight into my life, like
I'm here for it.
It's it's they're great tools.
So many of them are actuallymore focused on the behavior of
the person or okay, you'rereally motivated to be
successful and I'm reallymotivated to be successful.
But those motivations might bevery, very different underneath
(07:23):
the surface.
The reason why we are driving tobe a successful person could
come from a multitude ofdifferent places.
And so that's what I love aboutit.
So I'll say, like, well, okay,who in the room is a people
pleaser?
And you know, almost everybody,the women will raise their
hands.
And I'll say, so does that meanwe're all the same?
We're all people pleasers.
(07:44):
And it's like, no, like thereason why someone else is a
people pleaser and this personis a people pleaser is because
we're all motivated and tryingto find something that is
different.
And so I love it so much becauseit goes to the subconscious.
It's actually not a great ideato take an online test.
I know a lot of people do.
(08:05):
And maybe what the onlinetesting can do is help you
narrow your number down.
There are nine numbers.
The test can help you likenarrow them down, but only you
can know what your actual innermotivations are.
And so that's where the coachingpiece comes in really handy to
have someone to kind of help youwalk through how you truly
identify your number.
(08:26):
I can meet with somebody and Ican get to know them, but I
actually can't tell them theirnumber because that's something
that only they really haveaccess to is that inner
motivation.
SPEAKER_02 (09:23):
Yes.
And you and I did meet.
And at the end, you were like,okay, you're either this number
or that number.
And I can't remember, I'm eithera three or an eight or a three
or a five or a five or eight.
It's one of those, one of thosethree numbers.
And you're like, I don't knowwhich one you are.
So you need, you know, and yousent me all this research and
stuff to read, which I'm aterrible student at the time.
You sound out.
(09:43):
I was so busy that I didn't readit, but I will, I will.
Before this comes out, I will.
And so it was interestingbecause you did say that same
thing that it is up to mebecause they were similar and
the descriptions of them weresimilar.
And even some of the othernumbers, I was like, oh yeah, I
can I can see myself being likethat.
Yes.
But then it was, and correct meif I'm wrong about this, it was
(10:04):
really like, okay, but what isthe strongest?
Like, what feels the strongestin terms of innately why you are
the way you are?
SPEAKER_01 (10:14):
Yes.
And I love thinking about thenumbers as colors.
And so I'm a very visual teacherand a very visual learner.
And so when I think about thecolors with the numbers as if
they are colors, I think aboutthe way that all the colors kind
of blend together.
And you could be looking atpurple, but you know that purple
(10:35):
has so many components of othercolors in it.
And this is the way theEnneagram works within us.
Like we're gonna relate to lotsof numbers because we actually
have a touch of everythingwithin us.
The key is to go deeply intowhat is the motivation and is it
(10:56):
coming, which center ofintelligence is it coming from?
So, you know, I don't know howdeep you want to wanna go on
this particular, you know,interview.
If I don't want to bore anybodyout of the room, but you know,
the numbers come from the threeareas of intelligence.
So they come from the thinkingcenter.
So are you processing the worldthrough thinking?
Are you responding to the worldwith that thinking lens on as
(11:19):
the strongest?
They also come through the heartcenter.
So are you heart centered takingin the world through emotional
and relational connection andresponding to the world in that
way?
There's numbers that come fromthat center, and then there's
numbers that come from the gutcenter, which is instinct, which
is doing, which is activation onevery level.
(11:40):
Like you don't need to thinkabout it or feel about it.
You just do it.
You know, you just know it anddo it.
So, you know, we kind of startthere and then we branch out
into, okay, well, if you feellike you are primarily thinking
your way through life, then, youknow, let's look at these three
numbers.
And we can do it in a hundredways.
We can look at the humanessential need that is within a
(12:02):
number.
And those would range fromsafety and security, affection
and esteem, and power andcontrol.
So I say to people all the time,we all want all three things.
Like we all want to be safe andsecure, have power and control,
have affection and esteem.
It's not that we don't want allof them, it's just that there's
one that is the engine of thebus.
(12:22):
Like it is the one that is justit's it's the engine in the bus
of life that's really driving.
And so somebody's striving forsuccess to go back to that
example, could be coming from aplace of this is what makes them
feel powerful and in control.
Another person's could besuccess is a result of wanting
(12:44):
to feel really safe and secure.
And then another person'smotivation towards success could
be this is how I feel worthy andesteemed.
And so you cannot just look at,oh, every successful person out
there is this, because what'sdriving it is that that
childhood story, the way we wantand need what we're out there
(13:06):
looking for.
SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
Which is so fascinating.
SPEAKER_01 (13:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:09):
Okay, so the three and the eight, where do they
fall?
Where do the three and eightfall?
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
So the three is gonna fall in that emotional
heart center.
So the three is gonna be ableto, they're gonna see relational
connection first and foremost.
They're gonna be able to read aroom really well.
And what happens with the threeis as soon as they read the
room, they can shape into whatthey need in that environment to
be successful.
What do I need to talk about?
(13:36):
What do I need to make sure theyknow that I know about?
What do I maybe I need to look aparticular way?
Maybe I need to.
You can basically chameleon as athree to be what the situation
requires.
And that's how you end upfeeling it's a relational and an
emotional center.
So it's basically kind of tryingto prove that I'm worthy that
(13:58):
that underlying drive.
For the eight, it comes from aplace of really wanting power
and control.
And the eight can walk into aroom and they will say, when
they walk into a room, they willsay, okay, who's in control
here?
And they'll they'll figure itout, and then they'll decide
whether or not that person isallowed to be in control of
(14:22):
them.
And they may be in the room andand look like they're following
along, but inside they'resaying, you know, you're not the
boss of me.
I am the boss of me at alltimes.
And it's because that's how theyfeel a lot of power and control.
So I can usually ask a three andan eight, do you care what other
people think about you?
And I'm not talking about yourinnermost circle of people you
(14:45):
love the most.
I'm talking about, do you kindof care that the Uber driver
likes you on the drive or thecheckout cashier?
Because I'm a three and I couldsay, yeah, okay, deep down, I do
kind of just want everybody inthe world, you know, to like me
because it's that relationalcenter.
The eight is like I could careless.
SPEAKER_02 (15:07):
Like I am a screaming eight if those are the
two moments.
SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
I want my people to love me and I care what they
think, but do I care what arandom?
No, I do not.
And so that's a really fun wayto kind of look at the two
numbers.
It's a perfect example.
SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
It's an absolutely perfect example because I'm
listening to you talk and athree, and I was like, okay,
like maybe sort of.
And then you get to the eight,and I was like, oh yeah, no,
that is like that is so muchmore me.
Just that is that is just moreme and how I behave.
So then let's we'll just use meas an example.
Let's say, you know, wedetermine I'm an eight.
(15:42):
Then what how do you help peoplewith that knowledge?
What do they do with thatinformation?
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Oh man, Gene, I love, I love that you thought to
ask this question because thereare so many accounts on
Instagram that are absolutelyadorable.
I love them, I follow them thathave all the fun Instagram
memes, like, you know, if I werea sweater, this is what I'd be,
(16:08):
and like all the numbers, youknow, or if I was a Starbucks
drink, or it just there's somany fun, silly ones.
But as with any tool orframework, if it isn't helping
you live a better life, become abetter version of yourself, if
it isn't serving as a guide or amap to accessing like the most
(16:31):
authentic parts of you, thenit's like, well, okay, it's
really interesting, but like,what's the actual point?
So the first thing that we do inEnneagram work is that we really
get we uncover the motivationand the blind spots, the things
that are tripping us up withinour own number.
(16:52):
And so it's it's a kind of aself-awareness first type of
thing.
If I know what is kind of tryingto sabotage me in the
background, then when ithappens, I can see it, I can
address it.
But most people, this is crazyto me, but most people actually
have no idea what's going on inthe subconscious.
(17:15):
But all we have to do is bringit to the light just a couple of
times.
And then all of a sudden it'slike, oh, I see it now.
It's like when you get the redcar and then you see all the red
cars.
So, you know, I'm gonna go to adifferent number.
I'm I'm gonna go to theEnneagram two.
So, what the Enneagram Two isknown as a helper.
They're always jumping in,helping everybody else, usually
at the expense of their ownneeds and taking care of
(17:37):
themselves.
And so when we illuminate to theEnneagram two, that it is
actually pride that is drivingthis constant need to make
everybody else happy.
It's a need to feel important,it's a need to be needed, the
need to be needed.
Like when we illuminate that,yeah, it's a little painful at
(17:59):
first, but usually, you know, wekind of we like to call it like
the we're letting people in onthe on the joke.
Like, so we try to we try tolaugh a lot and just go, I mean,
do you see it?
And then it's like, oh my gosh,yeah, I see it.
You know?
And so once you see it, then thenext time you're jumping in to
do something that is over theline, no one's asked you to do,
(18:21):
and you will go, oh, oh shoot,pride is here.
What am I wanting?
And then you ask a fewself-aware questions.
Is this mine to do?
How do I know they want my help?
Like those are some of thequestions then we equip you with
to make sure that there's notsomething running in the
subconscious that's literally,especially for the Enneagram
too, literally almost killingthem because they're doing so
(18:46):
much.
And we can go, wait, hold on.
This isn't the best, this isn'tthe highest use of your gifts of
who you were made to be, of whoyou're capable of being.
Pride is trying to sabotage you.
So that's just like one example.
And you're probably curious foruh the eight, right?
Yeah, sure.
Why not?
So the eight, that littlemonster that is kind of trying
(19:06):
to self-sabotage the eight iscalled lust for intensity.
And so it is a need toexperience in an intense kind of
way.
And so we know we'll play thatout, we'll show it, and then all
of a sudden it's like, wait, whyam I this project actually
requires a six?
(19:27):
Why am I going at it at an 11out of 10?
You know, yeah.
And it's it's just that constantdrive for intensity, and it
often causes you to maybe pushaway people that are trying to
come close to you.
So that's an example.
SPEAKER_02 (19:47):
Couldn't be more true to me personally.
unknown (19:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
And I kind of can twist that to be like, okay,
sort of like an overachiever.
It's like, okay, why at onepoint in time do I feel like I
need to redo my profile onLinkedIn and redo my profile on
Instagram and oh, update myentire website, and oh, change
the about page.
And like I very quickly getmyself down this like rabbit
(20:12):
hole of work that is notnecessarily the best use of my
time at that point in time to bedriving forward the initiatives
that I have.
And I have to have a veryserious awareness of that, given
an entrepreneur, because I veryquickly can be like, oh my God,
I love this.
(20:33):
I want to write a book.
I'm gonna spend all this time.
I'm gonna write a book, I'mgonna self-publish a book.
And now, you know, it's like Iget myself down these little
paths, and everything has to belike big too.
There it is.
SPEAKER_01 (20:43):
Everything has to be big.
SPEAKER_02 (20:44):
Everything has to be big.
That's everything has to be big.
SPEAKER_01 (20:46):
That's it right there.
SPEAKER_02 (20:47):
Everything has to be big.
Everything has to be big.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so fascinating.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
Yeah.
So it's really insightful whenyou can just start to like peel
back the layers.
And it's not just the thingsthat are sabotaged.
I mean, it's also the thingsthat you're gifted to do and the
ways to utilize your number andand make it work for you and not
against you.
So like those are really, reallygood things.
Do you think it would be helpfulif I just said the sort of the
(21:13):
title of each of the ninenumbers?
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely, you know, isobviously wait.
Okay, I don't think I'm thethree or the eight.
They're kind of talking.
Yes.
So in a word, the number one iscalled the reformer.
And the number one is constantlylooking out into the world and
within themselves, seeing whatcould be reformed, seeing what
(21:34):
could be improved, seeing whatcould be better, and then
feeling a sense ofresponsibility to fix it.
Yeah.
The number two is called thehelper.
And they are looking forrelational connection through
helping and serving.
So do they love helping andserving?
Yes, they totally do.
What is the actual driver forthat help and serve is they want
(21:57):
to be connected to people.
They need people and connectionand they sense that the only way
they're allowed to have that isif they can be super helpful or
serve somebody.
The three is called theachiever.
And the three is looking toperform and achieve efficiently
and successfully.
And, you know, the three avoidsfailure.
(22:21):
And so what makes me really sadabout my experience as a three
and what I'll often talk withother threes about is, you know,
a three will look like they havea lot going on.
They can get so much done andthey do things that they're very
successful at because that's avery that's how they're proving
their worth in the world, right?
Like, well, if I'm successful,then I'm worthy.
(22:42):
Okay.
How many things does the threereally want deep down to do, but
they're too afraid to trybecause they're afraid they will
fail?
So my favorite question to athree is like, what are you not
doing?
SPEAKER_00 (22:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
I see that you've done all this successful stuff,
but like, what's on your heartthat you're not doing?
Because you're so afraid you'regonna fail.
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
And that's a powerful question.
SPEAKER_01 (23:01):
The big thing for me.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
Yes.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
The uh four is called the individualist, and
the four wants to be seen andknown.
They are the most emotional ofthe nine numbers on the on the
Enneagram scale, and they willthey want to be known so
authentically and so uniquely,but they also believe that
everyone else is equally asunique and they want to know
(23:24):
them in an authentic way too.
The five is called theinvestigator.
This is our deep thinker.
This person can, they're lookingfor safety and security.
They're in that that thinkingspace.
And so they are going to be ableto take lots of information and
analyze it and make it makesense.
And the five is constantlysearching to be very competent
(23:48):
and be very independent throughtheir knowledge.
The six is called the loyalist.
The loyalist, they want to dotheir responsibility, their
duties, their obligations.
They are always scanning forrisks.
They are able to do worst-casescenario thinking better than
anybody.
And uh, they sometimes struggleto trust themselves, but they
(24:09):
are out there looking for safetyand security through being
prepared, being responsible,having seven backup plans.
Like that's their that's theirway of being very safe and
secure.
The seven is called theenthusiast, and they want to
avoid pain.
So the enthusiast is like, let'sjust have a good time.
(24:30):
I they want to have a ton ofoptions out there because if
anything gets too painful, theywant to move on to the next one.
They're so fun to have around.
However, they're so quick toavoid pain, and that's the pain
of being bored, the pain ofmundane things, and pain in
relationship or you know,parenting.
(24:52):
I mean, it it's a it's ablessing and a curse, really.
It is so that's the seven.
SPEAKER_02 (24:58):
The eight I know some of those.
SPEAKER_01 (25:00):
You do.
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
The uh the eight we call thechallenger, and this is just the
I'm gonna exert enough energy sothat nobody will will try to
control me.
The eight just simply does notwant to be controlled.
They don't have to be in controlall the time, but they will not
be controlled by someone else.
(25:20):
And then the nine we call themediator.
They are the one that is lookingto kind of control the world
around them by making sureeverybody on out here is okay
and not rocking any boats.
Their favorite phrase is like,let's not rock the boat.
Oh, that would take too muchenergy to enter that conflict.
It's easier to just stay quiet,go with the flow, and don't rock
(25:42):
the boat.
SPEAKER_02 (25:43):
I love that because as you're talking, there's some
of them where I'm like, Yeah, Icould see how I could be like
that in certain situations.
And others, I'm like, there'sabsolutely none of that in my
personality at all.
Yeah.
So it's so fascinating.
It is.
All right.
So, how do you then take thatand apply that in the coaching
(26:03):
world?
I think I know how you do thatbecause I understand what you do
as a coach, but how does thattransition happen and how are
you using that tool to help youas a life coach?
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
As a life coach, I have clients that are highly
familiar with the Enneagrambecause maybe they've gone
through one of my classes ormaybe they've self-taught
themselves through, you know,books and podcasts and all the
things.
I also have clients who don'tknow the Enneagram, don't know
their number.
And to be honest, because theEnneagram is my specialty, I was
(26:37):
a little nervous, like, well, amI going to be able to coach well
somebody who doesn't speak thissame language?
And the truth of the matter isI'm able to use my lens and my
knowledge to maybe see some gapswhere where I don't have to
label it in the Enneagram wordsin order to maybe ask or kind of
(26:59):
talk, explore, bringing out,like, hey, do you think fear is
at play here?
And I might know in my mind,like why I've chosen fear
because of the way it fits intothis framework of the Enneagram,
but don't necessarily have tohave the framework in order or
the same language with theclient in order to work with
them.
Now, I love, love working withcohorts of women who have gone
(27:25):
through a deep dive with theEnneagram and then kind of
putting that together.
And that's that's what I wasmentioning earlier before we got
on this call here was that Ihave a new programming and it's
called Intermission.
And so it actually blends thisdeeper Enneagram work with
community and with privatecoaching, and it works
(27:48):
beautifully.
So it's sort of all of ittogether.
SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
All right.
So share what that is because Ithink intermission and I think
like midpoint in life, maybe ata pause, maybe at a break.
You tell me what does that meanto you and to the people, you
know, who are the people thatjoined such a thing and such a
cohort?
And I'm gonna do what we'retaught not to do in coaching.
I'm gonna ask you two questionsat once because I know you can
(28:12):
remember.
Like, what does it mean to mean?
Who are the type of people tojoin?
And then what is a cohort?
Like, what is entailed in that?
What does that even mean?
Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (28:24):
So we've been friends for about, I don't know,
all of 2025, at least, anyway.
Yes, in our in our coachingworld.
I don't know if you know thisabout me, but I am a musical
theater girl.
So I I studied musical theaterin college.
I worked on cruise ships aftercollege was over.
(28:45):
I've done a lot of musicaltheater.
I love the storytelling thathappens in musical theater.
I'm drawn to stories, I'm drawnto transformation.
I love the way that theater canbring those things to life.
Okay.
So fast forward then to thatmoment in my life when I was in
my mid-40s and going, who am I?
Why am I here?
(29:06):
What am I doing?
I was approaching that emptynest timing.
I could see it like very clearlyright in front of me.
About to happen.
And I just thought, what?
Is it over?
Like, is my is are the bestyears of my life behind me?
Because these two children thatI love more than anything.
(29:26):
I mean, like, they're gonna fly.
And what does that mean to me?
And I just I needed anintermission.
I needed a pause in my story.
And so what I have found is thatmost women at some point in the
middle of the story in themidlife, which I mean,
(29:47):
technically, is it right in themiddle?
I hope so.
I hope we all live to be 90 or100 years old.
But somewhere between like 45and 55-ish, there comes this
point when it's like, okay, actone feels like the story is it
was really good.
And, or maybe it was reallyhard, or maybe it was really
(30:08):
inspiring.
But what in the world?
What does act two look like?
Do I have to just sit back andwatch it happen?
Do I just wait and see and go,well, I guess time will tell, or
do I get to actually be anactive co-writer and co-author
of Act Two of Life?
Yes.
And so Intermission asks thisquestion and women, it's
(30:31):
limited.
I do three cohorts a year.
It's limited to 12 women.
And we kick off with the deeperEnneagram work.
We start that first.
We we kind of get to know eachother through doing some private
little Enneagram.
Classes where we figure outeverybody's number and then I
teach, you know, some of thosebig concepts with Enneagram.
(30:53):
Then we go on a retreat.
This is my favorite part becausewe just did one in the most
beautiful area of Indiana in thefall.
It was just gorgeous in southernIndiana.
In the spring, when it's snowinghere, we are going to head to
Arizona and do the retreat insunny Arizona.
So we we travel, we go on aretreat together, and that's
(31:16):
where we get, we write ourpurpose statements.
We applaud Act One.
We take what have we learned?
What does Act One give us thatwe would not have if we had not
lived through what we have livedthrough?
Wherever we are now, whetherthat's brink of that's
recovering from divorce orwhether that's widowhood or
emptiness, whatever it is wherewe are now, what have we been
(31:38):
given from Act One?
And how can we applaud that andbe grateful for it?
And then how can we get reallyintentional about act two?
So we take the work and we go, Iknow who I am now, I know how
I'm wired.
I I know how I'm wired, and Iknow my unique purpose
statement.
That's a huge piece of theintermission experience.
(31:58):
Sure.
Yes.
And then we go on the retreat,we bond, we have monthly cohort
meeting and then privatecoaching to really customize
that co-authoring of Act Two tothe individual.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
Yes.
That sounds so powerful.
It's been really fun.
Do you change every time you doit?
Do you feel like you sort ofevolve in like a tiny little
way?
You learn something new aboutyourself too.
100%.
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Yes.
100%.
SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
Yeah.
It's one of the gifts ofcoaching, is that I feel like we
we grow as our clients grow, wegrow too.
I learn from my clients everyday.
It's amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (32:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's one of the gifts ofself-awareness too, and of being
willing to like go there andlearn more about yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (32:48):
You value that.
I know that about you.
And I think you said on a recentpodcast, like sometimes you grow
and you grow and you becomeself-aware.
And then all of a sudden youlook around and you're like, oh,
wait, the people I'm with didn'talso grow.
unknown (33:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
That can be really hard.
But it's, you know, it's it'sthe reality of if if there are
people that are investing inknowing themselves and their
purpose and their life better,and those that aren't, there's
gonna be a natural, a naturalseparation.
SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
It is.
I love how you phrase it as anact one and an act two, because
I also try to look at it as someof those relationships, like
they served a purpose at thattime, that stage that you were
in in life, or or that act, ifwe want to use the same
terminology, is like thosepeople served a role in that
act.
And just because they're notpart of the next act doesn't
(33:40):
diminish the role that theyplayed in the first act.
It just means that thatcharacter just is not part of
the story anymore.
And I think coming to thatrealization helps us get, at
least for me, it helped me findpeace in the people that had
sort of moved out.
And then you need that peacebecause then you can start to
recognize the people that movein for act two.
(34:03):
And yeah, they look different.
And that's cool, and that'sokay.
You know, it's like that they'reserving a purpose.
And many times the people I lookat right now that are in my act
two, they wouldn't have fit inact one.
Like they just they probablywouldn't have actually fit with
me and that person that I was inact one.
(34:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (34:24):
Like you weren't ready for each other at that
point, right?
Both yeah, yeah.
And the beauty of it is everyoneis invited to grow.
Like growth, awareness, it's nota club that's close.
Like anybody can do it.
It just takes it's a littlescary, and it's you know, it's
(34:45):
super humbling to be willing tolike look in the shadows and go,
ugh, yeah, I don't love thatabout myself, but I'm willing to
look at it because I know that Ican grow and and shift and
change.
But yeah, I love that what yousaid about the characters in Act
One serving a role, and I thinkthat's why it's important to be
(35:07):
grateful.
SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
Because it might not have felt like a gift at the
time, but our development, theway that we become who we are,
is a result of all the chaptersbefore us.
SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
All of them, right, yes, and with so many different
players as well.
I think there are a lot ofpeople that are in that age
group of the intermission, likeyou talked about, who are going
through a divorce.
And that's really hard too, orchanging careers, or having
parents become people that theyare now caregivers of, which is
like a whole new role as a humanbeing.
(35:43):
And those are just differenttimes and require a lot of inner
reflection and growth work and alot of soul searching to figure
out who am I now, because myrole has potentially changed as
well.
My identity has changed.
SPEAKER_01 (35:58):
Yeah.
And, you know, I think a bigcaution to anybody that's in
this stage of life of you're notfully raising your kids anymore.
I mean, you'll always be theirparent, but you know, maybe
you've you've empty nested orthey're they're young adults.
If you don't get clear on,again, who you are and why you
(36:21):
walk the planet, then that same,that raising the kids energy
that kind of got maybe kind ofgot you sucked in, it will just
transfer to taking care of yourelders.
And you have to be able to carefor your loved ones in a way
that honors them withoutdiminishing who you are this
time.
(36:41):
Yes.
Like you get to you get to bewho you are, and you get to have
ownership of that and take careof others because that's the
cycle of life, but withoutsacrificing your whole self.
SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
Agreed.
You get to matter.
SPEAKER_01 (36:57):
Thank you.
You get to matter.
SPEAKER_02 (36:58):
That is absolutely you get to matter, yes.
And I just saw you into Greecerecently, and that is definitely
a I matter kind of trip.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:10):
Wait, my husband and I celebrated 25 years of
marriage.
We fested this fall.
I turned 50.
So, like, we had all kinds oflittle celebrations like piled
up, and so we we celebrated onthat trip, and it was wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (37:27):
It looked amazing.
Highly recommend.
It looked so incredible.
Yeah.
So let's switch gears.
I want to just talk aboutwellness for a little bit
because, like you said, the theclub is not closed for people
who want to do some personalgrowth work.
And I think there's a verycommon trait among people who
are in this club, which iswellness matters.
(37:48):
However, they want to definewellness, wellness, mind, body,
spirit matters.
And some people are muchstronger on one of those mind,
body, spirit spectrums, or oneis like much stronger in their
lives than the other.
But wellness matters to most ofthe people that I've met and to
every podcast guest I have.
So if you wouldn't mind, whatdoes wellness look like in your
life?
And how do you keep those thingsbeing a priority in life?
SPEAKER_01 (38:13):
What a great question, coach.
Wellness to me is a lot aboutthe balance of priority.
So, and I know there is no suchthing as perfect balance.
Like you're not, you're not 33%balanced in spirit, 33% body,
33% in mind.
Like I understand that.
(38:34):
When I am out of balance, I feelunwell.
And so I could be rocking it inmy physical health.
But if my spiritual health is inthe tank, I don't feel well, you
know?
And so that's the game, right?
Of trying to figure out how do Icreate enough margin to care for
(38:57):
this one body and one life andone soul that I get to have
while I walk the planet.
So on a more practical level,it's just being very mindful of
what I how I nurture myself.
So water, walks, reading, takingsome time off on the weekends.
(39:22):
I I used to never take a dayoff.
I do a lot better at taking aday off now.
So it's like what is filling meup?
Because it's just those littlesmall steps that make the
biggest difference for me.
They do.
They do.
SPEAKER_02 (39:37):
Yes.
And as you said, for you, andit's important for everyone to
find the thing for them.
And I feel like one of thethings that we are both
fortunate to do as coaches andas podcast hosts and all the
other things we do is just toexpose people to the things that
are out there.
And you need to figure out andfind the thing that's right for
(39:57):
you and to bring it back fullcircle to Enneagram.
You know, based on your number,there might be some things that
are going to resonate morestrongly with you than others.
And and lean into that asopposed to trying to be like
round circle square peg.
You know, everybody else says Ihave to go to the gym and uh
sweat and run and do a marathon.
(40:19):
And that might not be your jam.
And that's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (40:22):
Yeah.
And how often I think seasonschange too.
You know, I used to be really, Iused to really love CrossFit.
And like that was like my thingfor a while.
And now I just really like yogaand walks.
And I sometimes I'm like, issomething wrong with me that I
don't want to like do that?
And it's like, no, it's just anew season for me.
SPEAKER_00 (40:43):
Yes.
Uh that's true.
SPEAKER_01 (40:45):
Yes.
I actually did a whole series onhealth and wellness, like around
your number.
And again, you just take thesame framework and you filter it
when you look at your fitness oryour wellness or your weight
loss or your spirituality,whatever, and you go, Oh, okay.
Yep, that's motivating to me.
(41:05):
That's a draining.
This is uh gonna be rewarding,and that I'm not gonna care
about.
You know, it so you're totallyright that in the world of the
Enneagram, it can be sobeneficial for all matters,
parenting, friendship, stress,relief, all of it.
SPEAKER_02 (41:24):
Do you use chat?
This is a total side subject,but something that just occurred
to me.
Do you use chat GPT to help ortell your clients to use chat
GPT to help them understandtheir number and how it applies
to life?
Or no, because chat is just sucha broad algorithm of pulling
data together.
SPEAKER_01 (41:43):
Yeah, I was just having this conversation
yesterday and I would say no.
So I will use it to help mestart to brainstorm, like for
podcast episodes or somethinglike that.
And so I find it a healthybrainstorming tool for me.
But when I go through it and Iactually am looking at what it's
(42:04):
suggesting, it's not, it's notaccurate enough in my mind.
So not yet.
I don't think it's accurateenough yet to really.
That's why I'm asking.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (42:14):
That's why I'm asking.
Because I'm a huge, I use chat,but I feel like it has a time
and a place.
And I think sometimes in somesituations, people tend to rely
on it too much.
SPEAKER_01 (42:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (42:24):
And it doesn't personalize things enough for
them.
You know, like there are peopleout there that could say, What
do I need a life coach for?
I have Chat GPT.
SPEAKER_01 (42:33):
You know, and I'm like, it's kind of not exactly
the same thing.
It's not, it's not, it's notcustomized, it's not taken into
account.
Yeah, there's just, it's justnot deep enough yet.
So like you could learn at avery high level.
You could learn about yourself.
But there'd probably be a fewthings that are like, yeah, no,
that's not really a thing.
(42:54):
And there'd probably be, youknow, it'd be an okay place to
start, but it's definitely, Iwould, I would rather somebody
go to podcasts with, you know,Enneagram people that spend
their time studying andcoaching.
The thing with the Enneagramthat's so cool is when you study
it in a community and you canhave such a blast of no of
(43:15):
learning from the other numbers.
Because I think there'sbasically three relationships
that the Enneagram really helpsyou nail.
That is the relationship withyourself, yes, relationship with
other human beings.
So your family members, yourcoworkers, just your community,
but then also your relationshipto your, you know, to God or the
(43:37):
universe or however you want to,you know, word that it's like
because we are relational humanbeings and we are created in
relationship and forrelationship, it just seems to
me like it is such a high-valuerelationship tool.
And so when you're studying ittogether, I have had more times
than I could count.
(43:58):
Somebody will say that they'rehaving a really hard time with
either a best friend or ahusband or somebody.
Then someone in our cohort isthe same number as that said
best friend or said husband.
And they go, Oh, well, likehere's the way I think about it.
And then the person is like,What?
That's what they're thinking.
Oh my gosh.
And then their compassion andtheir it's like the disconnect
(44:20):
kind of goes away because theyhave a just a better
understanding.
So all of that to say that was along answer to say chat is not
human.
So I really think having a humanteaching it is is best.
So podcasts, books, classes,cohorts, things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (44:34):
I love it.
All right.
So you mentioned podcasts.
So we're gonna come back towhere we started.
Okay.
What made you decide that youwanted to do your own podcast?
SPEAKER_01 (44:43):
Two two two primary things.
First, people ask me a lot ofquestions about the Enneagram.
You know, they they kind of knowthat that's that's my thing.
And so they'd say, well, whatabout like this?
And so I thought to myself, youknow, that would be a fun thing
for me to just talk about andjust have out there for people
(45:03):
to consume.
It's something they could accessfor free.
They don't have to sign up foranything.
So I just thought, I think itwould be nice to be able to have
my own voice in the Enneagramconversation out there.
unknown (45:16):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (45:16):
And then the second reason is frankly, because I
it's so important to me as atool that has transformed my
life and many of the people thatthen I work with.
And I also just there's not toomuch out there.
I mean, there's a lot if youreally go down the rabbit hole,
(45:37):
but I just really want morepeople to know it from a
practical standpoint, which iswhy I only do nine-minute
episodes.
I'm like just a little dose ofEnneagram wisdom for the day,
you know.
And so I do like an introepisode, and then I'll just do
one episode per number, nineminutes or less, and just a
(45:58):
little, little Enneagram bite,bite-sized pieces, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (46:03):
And it's just a great way for people to get
exposed to what it means.
How do you apply it?
What do you do with it?
See if your interest is peakedto then take it to another
level.
It's practical.
I want it to be practical.
Practical.
It's very practical.
And so Living Well by Jen,everybody.
Yeah.
Everywhere people can findpodcasts?
Everywhere.
Yep.
(46:23):
YouTube and all the platforms.
I love it.
We will put it in the show notesas well.
Thank you.
Okay.
So before we run out of time,I'd love to ask every one of my
guests if they have a book thatthey would like to recommend
that has impacted thempersonally or professionally.
I am a true believer that bookschange lives.
So what book or books?
Some people can't narrow it downto one.
What book or books would youlike to recommend to the
(46:44):
listeners?
SPEAKER_01 (46:45):
I think I'll recommend the first book I ever
read about the Enneagram when Iwas coming back to it in my
mid-40s.
Uh, and it's called The RoadBack to You by Suzanne Swabiel.
And it's a book.
You do have it?
SPEAKER_02 (47:02):
I no, I don't have it, but I've heard of it.
And I didn't know it was aboutthe Enneagram.
It is about the Enneagram.
SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
And it's very digestible.
So it is for like the Enneagrambeginner, which is why it's one
of the ones I recommend whenpeople are first getting
started.
SPEAKER_02 (47:16):
Okay.
I'm gonna have to get that onebecause I do try to buy all the
books that everybody recommendsand read them as well.
Ah, all right.
Before we sign off, how canpeople get in touch with you?
What's the best way to find you?
And I will put this in the shownotes too, but some people don't
go to the show notes.
So how can people get in touchwith you, follow you, find you?
SPEAKER_01 (47:33):
So Living Well by Jen on Instagram, YouTube,
Facebook, and LinkedIn.
And, you know, I read all my DMsevery single day.
So if you just message me, Ipromise it's me and not a chat
bot on the other side.
Um, I'm not that, you know, notthat cool yet or something.
I don't know.
I I love having conversationswith people that are actually
(47:57):
listening to the podcast andsuch.
So the best way to, if you havea question for me is simply just
shoot me a message.
I'll reply back to you.
SPEAKER_02 (48:04):
Yes.
And I do, I'm with you.
I I handle all my own socialmedia and I respond to
everything.
And I think it's it's just apart of my business that I don't
want to give up because thatpersonal connection with the
people on the other side is sonice.
And it's just nice for them toknow that there's actually a
real human being and not a robotor not an admin that is
responding to their questions orwhatever they have to say.
(48:25):
So thank you for that.
Uh, Jen, you are a dear friend.
Thank you so much for explainingEnneagram to everybody.
Your coaching program is sounique.
I put it all in the show notes.
I really encourage people toreach out to Jen, whether you're
interested in learning aboutEnneagram or you're interested
in her cohorts, is she's doingsome really amazing work.
And I thank you for that.
And everybody, stay tuned untilnext week.
(48:46):
Have a beautiful day.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of the House of
Germar podcast, where wellnessstarts within.
We appreciate you being a partof our community and hope you
felt inspired and motivated byour guest.
If you enjoyed this episode,please write us a review and
(49:08):
share it with friends.
Building our reach on YouTubeand Apple Podcasts will help us
get closer to our mission toempower one million women to
live all in.
You can also follow us onInstagram at House of Germar and
sign up to be a part of ourmonthly inspiration newsletter
through our website,houseofgermar.com.
If you or someone you know wouldbe a good guest on the show,
(49:32):
please reach out to us atpodcast at houseofgermar.com.
This has been House of GermarProduction with your host, Gene
Collins.
Thank you for joining our house.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.