All Episodes

June 12, 2025 17 mins

Discover the highlights of this chapter shaping the New Evangelization today: https://www.builtforgreatness.com/tao-te-ching-chapter-69-compassion/

What happens when ancient Eastern wisdom meets Christian scripture? The answer might revolutionize how you handle every conflict in your life.

Our deep dive into Chapter 69 of the BFG handbook—a Christian interpretation of the Tao Te Ching—reveals counterintuitive principles that flip conventional wisdom on its head. Imagine military advice suggesting stillness over attack and retreat over advancement. Picture being "fully armed without weapons" and "advancing without moving forward." These paradoxes aren't just philosophical abstractions; they offer practical wisdom for navigating opposition in our everyday lives.

The core revelation? "When evenly opposing forces meet, the victory will go to the compassionate side that yields." This teaching directly challenges our cultural programming that equates yielding with weakness. Drawing from biblical examples like Moses at the Red Sea instructing Israel to "be still" and Jesus's apparent defeat at the crucifixion that became the ultimate victory, we explore how compassion and yielding can actually be profound expressions of strength.

We break down these principles through the Trinitarian MAP framework—Mindset, Aim, and Practice—giving you practical ways to cultivate stillness, humility, vigilance, and compassion in the face of conflict. What's truly fascinating is how these wisdom principles appear across major world traditions: Buddhism's teaching that "hatred doesn't cease by hatred," Hinduism's emphasis on humility, and Islam's instruction to "repel evil with good" all echo this universal truth.

Whether you're facing workplace tension, relationship conflict, or spiritual battles, this episode offers a revolutionary alternative to the force-with-force approach that dominates our culture. Could your next conflict be transformed by having the courage to yield rather than the need to dominate? Listen now to discover a different kind of strength.

Contact us at info@builtforgreatness.com

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we're jumping into something pretty unique, I
think, really thought-provoking.
Our source is chapter 69,compassion, from the BFG
handbook, and it's described asa Christian edition of the Tao
Te Ching.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, it's a fascinating combination, isn't
it?
And it's deliberatelyreinterpreting ideas you find in
Christian scripture and the TaoTe Ching, looking for that
common ground, maybe a freshangle.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Absolutely so.
Our mission for this deep diveis to really pull out the key
insights from this chapter,especially around things like
you know, conflict, strength.
What victory even means?
Here I want to dig into thewell, the surprising wisdom, and
see how it connects acrossthese traditions that seem, on
the surface, quite different.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
And the goal really is to help you understand what
it might mean to find strengthin places you wouldn't normally
look like stillness or humility,even compassion, especially
when you're up against something.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Okay, starting with the core message, Chapter 69
kicks off with this militarysaying.
That honestly sounds like thecomplete opposite of how we
usually think about conflict.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
It really does.
It says I prefer not to attackbut rather to be still.
I prefer not to advance an inch, but rather to retreat a foot.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
My first thought is just isn't that giving up Like
surrender?

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, that's the usual way to look at it, right?
But then the chapterimmediately follows with these
almost poetic kind ofparadoxical descriptions of
engagement like advancingwithout moving forward, rolling
up one's sleeves without bearingone's arms, engaging the enemy
without confrontation and evenbeing fully armed without any
weapons.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
How can you be fully armed with no weapons?
It feels like a riddle.
So it's not saying be passive,but maybe a different kind of
strength, a different way to act.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Exactly.
It sort of flips our usualscript.
But and this is crucial rightafter laying out this very
counterintuitive approach, thechapter gives a pretty serious
warning.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
It says so it's not saying the threat isn't real,
it's not naive.
It acknowledges a powerfulopponent exists.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Precisely, and the source connects this directly to
Christian scripture.
It brings up passages like 1Peter 5 and Ephesians 6.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Which warn about spiritual adversaries, Satan,
unseen forces.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Exactly.
It underlines that, yes, youneed to be vigilant, the enemy
is real and powerful, but thestrength you need isn't just
human muscle.
It means relying on God.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
That's a key difference.
Be aware of the enemy's power,but your response isn't the
typical attack.
So if you're choosing stillnessand retreat, but you know the
enemy is strong, how does thechapter say you actually will
win?
What's victory look like inthis view?

Speaker 2 (02:41):
And this is where it gets really surprising.
The central conclusion istherefore when evenly opposing
forces meet, the victory will goto the compassionate side that
yields.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Okay, victory through yielding Everything sports,
business, politics tells you,victory comes from overpowering
the other side, from not backingdown.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
And this is where the BFG uses Christian scripture to
unpack why yielding in thisspecific context isn't weakness,
why it's actually a path to adifferent kind of win.
Well, take the idea ofstillness and trusting God.
That echoes Exodus 14,.
You know the Israelites at theRed Sea.
Moses says be still and see thesalvation of the Lord.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Right when they were trapped.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Exactly, or Psalm 37.7,.
Be still before the Lord andwait patiently for him.
These are times when humaneffort just isn't enough.
You have to trust somethingbigger.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
So stillness isn't doing nothing.
It's like an act of waiting,trusting, making space for God.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes, precisely.
And then think about thoseparadoxes advancing without
moving, engaging withoutconfrontation.
The source links this to howChrist himself operated Proverbs
14 advises caution, not flyingoff the handle in conflict, and
Matthew 5, profoundly Jesus,telling us to love our enemies,
pray for persecutors.
How did he overcome the world?

(03:57):
Not with an army, but withtruth, love and, ultimately,
self-sacrifice.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
And the source mentions his yielding to arrest,
To crucifixion.
It looked like total defeat,but it was framed as trusting
the Father's plan.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yes, Framing that apparent weakness, that death as
the actual path to victory oversin and death, it completely
redefines winning.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
So that core idea of victory to the compassionate
side that yields it connects tohow God and Jesus are shown.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
That's the argument.
Isaiah 63 talks about God as acompassionate Savior delivering
through mercy, not just rawpower.
Hebrews 2 shows Jesus becominglike us, full of compassion,
specifically so he could save us.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
So the source is saying that what looks like
weakness, like yielding, isactually demonstrating divine
compassion, and that is the pathto true victory in God's
kingdom a path God and Jesuswalked.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
That's the core challenge in this first section
restore.
It asks you to radicallyrethink strength and conflict,
to try on Christ-like compassion.
Trust God's power over justhuman effort.
Be aware of the spiritual fightand see victory not just in
winning arguments or battles,but maybe through yielding to
God's wisdom, following Jesus'lead.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
That's a huge reframing, but, wow, it sounds
incredibly hard.
How do you actually do that?
How do you go from hearingyield be compassionate to
actually applying it when thingsget tough?
A difficult conversation, abusiness deal, a personal
struggle.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
And that leads perfectly into the renewal
section.
This part offers a practicalway forward, a method for
transformation.
It uses what the source callsthe Trinitarian MAP framework.
Map yeah Mindset, aim andpractice Guided by God's love,
shaping your mindset.
Trust in the sun directing youraim, and faith in the Holy
Spirit guiding your practice.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
MAP Okay, like a roadmap for inner change.
Walk us through this with theprinciples we just talked about.
Let's start with that first onethe power of stillness and
strategic withdrawal patience.
What's the mindset?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
The mindset here is about cultivating real patience
and discernment.
It's getting it deep down thatconstant action isn't always the
best way.
Sometimes stepping back, beingstill, is actually way more
effective than just rushing in.
It's trusting a differenttiming, valuing thoughtful
action over just reacting.
Think Psalm 46, be still andknow that I am God.

(06:09):
That really nails the mindset.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
So the mental shift is seeing that pause not as
failure but as potentiallyreally strategic, like deciding
to just breathe and wait in atense argument instead of firing
back.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Exactly, and the aim, if the mindset is the why, the
aim is the what?
What are you trying to achievewith that stillness?
Here, the aim is to activelyseek peace and stillness before
you act, focusing your intentionon really understanding the
situation from a calm place,creating that inner space for
God's guidance.
Exodus 14, saying the Lord willfight for you.
You need only to be still.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Okay, mindset Stillness has value.
Aim Seek peace, clarity, God'sinput through it.
What about the practice?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
value, aim, seek peace, clarity, god's input
through it.
What about the practice?
Practice is the behavior takingthose deliberate steps, pausing
, seeking clarity before youjump in or react, you know,
consciously stepping back intense moments or really making
sure you listen and think beforeresponding in important
relationships.
It's the habit of making roomfor wisdom.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
That MAP approach does help break it down.
Okay, let's try it on thesecond principle Advancing
without moving forward, or thatstrength and humility in action.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Okay, for this one, the mindset is about fostering
deep humility, being prepared,being ready, but without needing
to show off or competeconstantly.
It's understanding that realstrength comes from, like
internal growth, positioningyourself wisely, not from
getting pats on the back orconfronting everyone.
The belief is that real successcomes from quiet preparation
and character Proverbs 22.3about the prudent, seeing danger

(07:36):
and taking cover.
That's quiet positioning.
Or 1 Peter 3.15, being ready togive an answer, prepared but
not aggressive.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
So the inner conviction is getting strong
doesn't mean being loud, itmeans quietly getting ready,
building who you are.
What's the aim then?

Speaker 2 (07:52):
The aim is to actively go after humility and
readiness, rather than chasingrecognition or picking fights.
You're equipped, you'reprepared, but your goal isn't to
flaunt it or force things.
It's being ready to serve oract when it's right, but without
that personal drive fordominance.
It's being ready to serve oract when it's right, but without
that personal drive fordominance.
Philippians 2.3, valuing others, luke 14.11, humbling yourself.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
that captures this aim of seeking a low
service-focused place, aiming tobe ready and humble, not aiming
for the spotlight and thepractice.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Practice is actively serving, humbling yourself
before others, even when youcould assert yourself, choosing
humility, avoiding the need forapplause.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Like servant leadership.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Exactly.
The source points to Mark 10.44, Jesus saying the greatest is
the servant.
That practice, whether bigleadership roles or small acts
of kindness, builds trust andrespect way more than demanding
it.
It's acting like Christ.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Thinking of service as the practice of strength.
Okay, principle three thedangers of underestimating the
enemy, or vigilance and caution.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Right.
The mindset here is wellgrounded humility and constant
vigilance.
It's knowing deep down thatchallenges opposition.
Even subtle temptations, areoften trickier or stronger than
they look.
Refusing to just assume thingswill be easy.
1 Peter 5.8, the devil prowlinglike a lion.
Or 1 Corinthians 10, careful ifprowling like a lion.
Or 1 Corinthians 10, careful ifyou think you stand firm.
That's the mindset.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
So the belief is don't be naive, take threats
seriously inside and out, like abusiness owner respecting
competition, not dismissing them, or someone serious about
growth, knowing bad habits arepersistent.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
The aim the aim is to be vigilant and cautious,
practically Acknowledging thereal weight of challenges ahead
of time.
It's not pessimism, maybecautious optimism.
The goal is to fully grasp thehurdles and risks before you
jump in.
Proverbs 22.3 again, theprudence seeing evil and hiding
that name of taking protectivesteps based on foresight.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
So aiming for good risk assessment, basically
Aiming to set boundaries, maybeseeking accountability and the
practice.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Practice is consistently staying aware,
staying vigilant aboutchallenges day to day.
It's the ongoing work ofpreparing, planning with wisdom,
based on that cautious aimPreparing spiritually,
emotionally, mentally, knowingwhen to push, when to hold back,
grounding your actions in faith, not just your own strength.
First, corinthians 16, be onyour guard, stand firm in the
faith, sums up that practice ofactive, prepared watching.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Preparedness from wisdom and faith.
Okay, final principleCompassion leads to victory.
What's the driving mindset?

Speaker 2 (10:16):
The mindset is fully embracing compassion, humility
and a deep-seated non-aggressionas the real path to victory,
Believing that yielding withlove, with wisdom, is ultimately
stronger than force or pride.
This mindset sees compassion asdisarming hostility, opening
doors for peace, letting God'swisdom guide things.
It's not human anger.

(10:36):
Live at peace with everyone.
That's the core belief.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
So the conviction is love and mercy are the best
tools, even in conflict, likedeciding internally to approach
that tough work conversationwith empathy or prioritizing the
relationship over winning theargument in your family.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Precisely.
And the aim?
The aim is actively pursuingcompassion and being willing to
yield when faced with opposition, setting your intention to
respond with gentleness, withlove.
The goal is real, lasting peaceand understanding, recognizing
that yielding in this way canactually break down hostility
and open up reconciliation.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Letting go of needing to win.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, letting go of that personal need to dominate
and aiming instead forpreserving the relationship
seeking understanding.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Aiming for peace over personal victory.
So the practice how do you docompassion and yielding when
someone's pushing back?

Speaker 2 (11:27):
The practice is actively choosing compassion,
choosing a willingness to yieldto God's will when opposition
arises, deliberately not tryingto overpower the other person,
approaching conflict with love,empathy, trying to understand.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
That sounds incredibly hard.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
It is.
But the source emphasizesYielding isn't weakness here.
It's an act that acknowledgesGod's bigger plan, god's timing.
It actually fosters peace,reconciliation.
It shows the power insurrendering your own need for
control or revenge to God.
Matthew 5.7, romans 12.17 againthat practice of overcoming

(12:01):
evil with good throughcompassion.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
So the action is choose the compassionate path,
listen, offer understanding,trust God's process, even if it
feels wrong or means acceptingsomething not ideal, trusting
God's working in it.
You mentioned a fifth pointunder practice too.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yes, practicing unwavering faith and
non-contention.
This sort of underlies all theothers.
It's actively cultivating aspirit where you consistently
choose peace over conflict,fundamentally trusting God's
strength will ultimately prevail, securing the true victory.
It's a whole lifestyle ofwalking in God's peace,
resisting that urge to dominateor defeat people with human
tactics, and handling problemspersonal, professional,

(12:38):
spiritual with grace, compassionand just unwavering reliance on
God.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Exodus 14, the Lord will fight for you seems key
here, and Matthew 23 on servantleadership, rejecting dominance.
So in life it's prioritizingpeace in workplace disputes,
looking for win-win solutions,or leaning on God's peace in
personal struggles instead offorcing things.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Exactly this whole renewal section applying these
principles through mindset, aimand practice.
It really gives you a roadmapfor that inner transformation
Cultivating humility, patience,compassion, wisdom aligning
yourself inside and out withGod's purpose.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Okay, so we've got the core message restore and a
framework for applying itpersonally renewal.
Now the third section respond.
This is where things getbroader, right.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, because the result of renewal, of actually
internalizing these principles,is being able to respond to the
world in a way that sees andembraces shared truths, even
across different cultures andreligions.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
That's a big idea.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
It is the source uses that quote from St Thomas
Aquinas.
Truth cannot contradict truth,the idea being if something's
fundamentally true about howthings work or how humans
flourish, you might just findechoes of it in various wisdom
traditions.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Interesting, and the source then shows how these
principles we've discussed popup in other major world
religions.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Exactly.
Take the first one,non-contention and compassion,
as the path to victory.
We saw the Christian basis inMatthew 5.7.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
And the parallels are fascinating.
The source points to Buddhism,the Dhammapada, saying hatred
doesn't cease by hatred, only bylove.
Hinduism's Bhagavad Gitamentions nonviolence and freedom
from anger as divine qualities,and the Quran tells believers
to repel evil with that which isbetter.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
What unites these, despite the different contexts,
is the shared idea that realresolution, real victory, comes
through compassion and positiveaction, not force.
It's like a universal path tohealing conflict, fostering
understanding, whether it's justbetween two people or on a
bigger stage.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I feel like a universal truth about handling
conflict.
What about humility as thegreatest strength we have?
The Christian example, Mark 10,being a servant.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Again, really strong parallels.
Buddhism teaches he who ishumble is esteemed by all.
Hinduism's Bhagavad Gita listshumility as vital for spiritual
growth, and Islam, in the Quran,describes true servants walking
humbly and responding toharshness with words of peace.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
So, across these traditions, there's this shared
sense that real power isn'tpuffing yourself up, but serving
others, knowing your placerelative to the divine and other
people.
Humility isn't just nice, it'sa source of strength that builds
unity, a universal connector.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Then there's the power of non-attachment and
stillness.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
We link that to be still and know that I am god in
christianity and the parallelsbuddhism's focus on detachment
from desires for peace,hinduism's bhagavad-gita talking
about acting without attachmentto the outcome, and maybe even
in islam, the idea of returninggreetings with something better
suggests a measured, centeredresponse, not just impulse what
unites these is the wisdom offinding inner peace, not being

(15:40):
constantly tossed around bycircumstances or desires.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Finding that calm center aligning with a higher
will, making choices from wisdom, not just reactivity.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
And finally, the strength of yielding and wisdom
in conflict, overcoming evilwith good, from Romans 12.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
You see this wisdom echoed everywhere Buddhism
advising against revenge,letting go of hatred.
Hinduism teaching that the wisefind peace through yielding,
not violence.
And Islam, again, repellingevil with something better.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
It's powerful seeing that shared thread, that real
strength in conflict isn't aboutmatching force with force, but
having the self-control, thecompassion, the wisdom to choose
a different way, a way thatseeks peace, understanding,
overcomes negativity withkindness, choosing cooperation
over just competition.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Absolutely.
This response section, byshowing these parallels, really
highlights how deep these ideaswisdom, humility, compassion,
nonviolence run across humanspiritual understanding.
They aren't just confined toone box, they seem to be
universal guides for living welltogether and handling conflict
constructively.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
So this deep dive has really taken us on a journey
from those counterintuitivemilitary sayings through a
framework for personal changeand now seeing these universal
threads across major faiths.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, we've seen how this source presents stillness
as a form of advancement, beingweaponless as being fully armed,
the real danger ofunderestimating challenges and,
maybe most surprisingly, howcompassion and yielding can
actually be the path to truevictory.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
And the BFG handbook.
By explicitly making theseconnections Christian scripture
alongside principles from theTao Te Ching, buddhism, hinduism
, islam.
It offers this incredibly richperspective on strength and
conflict, one that really doesseem to transcend specific
beliefs.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
And for you listening .
We hope this deep dive hasoffered a kind of shortcut to
understanding these reallyprofound concepts, giving you
not just the ideas but hopefullysome concrete mindsets, aims
and practices with that MAPframework.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Here's a final thought to leave you with.
In a world that so oftenequates strength with aggression
and winning with simplyoverpowering others, consider
this what if embracingcompassion, what if choosing to
yield in wisdom isn't justdifferent, but maybe the most
revolutionary and, ultimately,the most powerful approach of
all?
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know
Dateline NBC

Dateline NBC

Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com

The Burden

The Burden

The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2026 iHeartMedia, Inc.