May 29, 2025 • 28 mins
Discover the highlights of this chapter shaping the New Evangelization today: https://www.builtforgreatness.com/tao-te-ching-chapter-66-leading-from-behind/
What if the most powerful leadership position isn't at the front, but behind everyone else?
Chapter 66 of the Build for God Movement Handbook challenges conventional wisdom by exploring a radical concept: leading from behind. Drawing inspiration from natural imagery, the text reveals how rivers and oceans become "kings of valleys" precisely by taking the lowest place – a perfect metaphor for leadership through humility rather than dominance.
This episode unpacks Jesus's countercultural leadership model, where washing disciples' feet wasn't just symbolic but demonstrated the essence of divine influence. "Whoever wants to be first must be last of all and servant of all" (Mark 9:35) isn't just beautiful theology – it's a revolutionary framework that creates environments where people feel unburdened, supported, and inspired to follow without growing weary.
We dive deep into the Trinitarian MAP (Mindset, Aim, Practice) that transforms these principles from theory to lived experience. From cultivating genuine humility to practicing selfless service and choosing cooperation over competition, these accessible daily practices reshape how we lead in families, workplaces, and communities.
Perhaps most fascinating is how these principles transcend religious boundaries. The core tenets of servant leadership resonate across diverse spiritual traditions – Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism all contain teachings emphasizing humility and selfless service. As St. Thomas Aquinas noted, "Truth cannot contradict truth" – these shared values point to universal wisdom about effective leadership.
Whether you're leading a Fortune 500 company, a community organization, or simply wanting deeper influence in your relationships, this exploration of servant leadership offers a refreshing alternative to power-driven models. When we embrace the paradox that true greatness comes through service, we discover authentic influence that transforms both ourselves and those around us.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, we've got some excerpts from chapter 66,
leading from Behind.
It's from the Build for GodMovement Handbook BFG for short.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And what's the gist of this handbook?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
So it describes itself as get this a Christian
edition of the Tao teaching.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
That's quite the combination East meets West.
What's the goal there?
What are they trying to do withthat?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Well, it says the aim is to present the gospel
through and I'm quoting here anew expression of God's love to
restore the truth.
And that leads us right intothe chapter.
We're focusing on leading frombehind.
So what we're going to do inthis deep dive is really try to
unpack that concept.
How does this idea of leadingfrom behind actually work,
especially within a Christianframework?
(00:40):
But also, you know, the sourcetouches on some broader
spiritual ideas.
So we'll look at those two.
Sounds like a plan.
Where do we even begin withsomething like this?
The chapter starts with thisreally cool, almost poetic image
.
It talks about rivers andoceans becoming kings of a
hundred valleys because they'reso good at taking the lowest
place.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So it's not about, like, asserting dominance or
power, it's about humility.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, it seems like it True leadership and even
greatness, coming from a placeof service, of being willing to
be at the bottom, not the top.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It's a pretty radical idea when you think about it.
I mean, most leadership modelsare all about, you know,
striving for the top, being incontrol, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Right.
But then the text immediatelyconnects us back to scripture.
It references Luke 14, whereJesus talks about taking the
lowest place and then beinghonored.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
So you know, it's not like this idea is coming out of
nowhere.
Oh interesting, so they'retrying to show that this leading
from behind concept is actuallyrooted in Christian tradition.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Exactly.
And then it goes on to connectthis idea of humility with
actual practical leadership.
It makes this bold statementthat if you want to be a master,
you have to become a servant,and if you want to be first, you
have to place yourself last.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Wow, that's a pretty stark reversal of how we usually
think about ambition andsuccess, almost like saying you
have to give up power toactually gain it.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, exactly, it's a complete flip right.
And to support this, you know,they bring in the example of
Jesus.
They mentioned John 13, whereJesus washes his disciples' feet
.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh yeah, that's a powerful image.
I mean, he's their teacher,their leader, and he's literally
kneeling down to wash theirfeet.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Exactly.
And then they reference Mark9.35, where Jesus straight up
says whoever wants to be firstmust be last of all and servant
of all.
So again it's like they'reshowing that this isn't just
some theoretical idea, but it'slike the core of how Jesus led.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So what does this kind of leadership actually look
like in practice?
I mean, does it really work?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Well, the chapter talks about the impacts of
Jesus's leadership style.
It says that people did notfeel burdened when he was in
charge.
They didn't feel harmed when hewas leading.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So it's not about control or, you know, forcing
people to do things.
It's about creating anenvironment where people
actually feel safe and supported.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Right.
It's about leading with likeempathy and compassion, not
authority, and the chapter goeson to describe the outcome of
this kind of leadership.
People joyfully glorified him,it says, without getting tired
of him.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Sounds like a pretty effective leadership style if
people are happy to follow you,not because they have to, but
because they want to.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, and again they back this up with scripture.
They mentioned Matthew 11.2830,where Jesus offers rest to
those who are burdened.
They also mentioned 1Thessalonians 1.27 and Acts
20.24, which talk about howpeople were inspired by Jesus's
example.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Okay, so leading from behind, serving others all that
.
It's rooted in Christiantradition.
It's about humility and empathy.
It can actually work, but isthere like a practical side to
this?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, there's this one line that really stood out
to me.
It says do not compete, andcompetition will not meet you.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's an interesting one, especially in today's
world, where it feels likeeverything is about competition.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Right.
So I was wondering, like howdoes that actually work?
Does it mean you just like leteveryone walk all over you?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I don't think that's what it's saying.
It seems more about likeshifting your focus.
Instead of constantly trying tooutdo others, you focus on your
own path, your own purpose.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
So you're not letting external measures of success
define you?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Exactly and the source actually connects this
idea to some specific scriptures.
It mentions Philippians 2.34,which talks about putting others
before yourself, and alsoGalatians 6.4, which says to
focus on your own work and notcompare yourself to others.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Oh, I see.
So it's not about being passive, but about being intentional
with your energy.
You're not wasting it on tryingto compete.
You're putting it towards yourown growth and your own service
to others.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Right, and the idea is that when you're not
constantly trying to proveyourself, you actually create
more space for collaboration andfor you know, genuine
connection with others.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Okay, so we've talked about the core concept of
leading from behind, but thischapter goes deeper.
It has this whole sectioncalled Renewal, where it
introduces something called theTrinitarian Method or, as they
call it, map.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
MAP.
What's that stand for?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Mindset, Aim and Practice, and it looks like it's
all about how to actually putthese ideas of leading from
behind into action.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Makes sense.
So let's break it down.
What's the first stop on thisMAP?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Mindset.
It starts with humility as thepath to greatness.
You know it takes us back tothat river and ocean analogy.
They keep coming back to that.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Right, that image of finding strength and influence
by taking the lowest place.
So how do they like translatethat into a mindset?
It can't just be aboutpicturing yourself as a river
right, right.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
It has to be more than that, yeah, and it seems
like the key here is aboutactively cultivating humility,
like choosing to put the needsof others before your own,
looking for opportunities toserve.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So it's not just about thinking humble thoughts,
it's about taking humble actions.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Exactly, and they give some pretty down to earth
examples, like offering to helphelp out at work even if it's
not your job, taking on choresat home without being asked.
Leading by example, you know,not just telling people what to
do, but actually showing themhow it's done.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Those are good examples, and I'm guessing they
tie this back to scripture.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Oh, yeah, of course they reference Matthew 20.2627
and Matthew 23.12.
Both are about how truegreatness comes from serving
others, from being humble.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Makes sense.
So that's humility as the pathto greatness.
What's the next piece of thismindset puzzle?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
It's called the role of servanthood and leadership,
which really echoes that massivebecome servant idea we talked
about earlier.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Right, that whole flipping the script on
leadership.
So what's the mindset shifthere?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
It seems to be about letting go of that need to be in
control, to have all theanswers.
Instead, you embrace the roleof a servant, someone who's
there to support and empowerothers.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
So it's about being a leader who listens, who helps
people develop their ownstrength.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, exactly.
It's not about micromanaging ordictating everything.
It's about creating a spacewhere people can grow and thrive
.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Interesting and, as always, I'm sure there are some
scriptures to back this up.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Oh, absolutely.
They cite Matthew 23.11 andMark 10.45.
They're all about how thegreatest among us should be
servants, just like Jesus was.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Okay.
So we've got humility, we'vegot servanthood.
What's next on this mindsetjourney?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
The next one is prioritizing others before
yourself.
It really emphasizes puttingothers first, making their needs
and well-being more importantthan your own.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Again, a pretty radical idea in a world that
often encourages us to putourselves first.
Look out for number one.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Right.
It's a big shift, and they evengive examples for this one,
like doing small acts of serviceevery day, helping your team
succeed, even if it means youdon't get all the credit.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Those are great little things that make a big
difference, and I bet there'ssome scripture to back this up
too.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
They mentioned Matthew 20.16 and Philippians
2.3.
Both are about, you know,valuing others and putting their
needs ahead of your own.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Cool.
So we're building this pictureof what the leading from behind
mindset looks like.
What's next?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
The next one is leading by example, not by force
.
It ties back to that idea ofgentle authority we talked about
, you know, leading with empathyinstead of control.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Right.
So it's not about barkingorders or using your power to
get people to do what you want.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
It's about inspiring them through your own actions
Exactly, and they give examplesof this kind of leadership
across different areas.
You know, like a boss who worksalongside their team, a parent
who models good behavior fortheir kids.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So it's about showing , not just telling.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, and of course they bring in the ultimate
example, Jesus.
They reference Matthew 11.2829,where Jesus describes himself
as gentle and humble in heart.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Okay, so humility, servanthood, putting others
first, leading by example.
What else is part of this?
Leading from behind mindset?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
The next one is interesting.
It's called the joy of servingwithout expecting return.
It's about finding fulfillmentin the act of service itself,
not in what you get out of it.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So it's not about expecting recognition or rewards
or even a thank you.
It's about serving because it'sthe right thing to do, because
it brings you joy.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Exactly, and they give some really practical
examples here, like doingsomething nice for someone
anonymously or helping outwithout expecting anything in
return.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I like that.
It's about shifting yourmotivation, focusing on the good
you're doing, not on whatyou'll get back.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Right, and they connect this to Philippians 2.4,
which talks about looking outfor the interests of others, and
also Psalm 100.2, which is allabout serving God with gladness.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Okay, so we're almost through this mindset section.
What's the last piece?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
The last one is avoiding competition to embrace
cooperation, which you know wealready touched on when we were
talking about leading frombehind.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Right, that idea of focusing on your own path and
not getting caught up in tryingto outdo everyone else.
So how does that translate intoa mindset?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Well, it seems to be about consciously choosing to
collaborate with others, to seethem as partners, not rivals.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
So, instead of trying to win, you're trying to find
ways to work together soeveryone benefits.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, exactly, and they give some specific examples
like working effectively inteams, sharing credit with
others and focusing on commongoals.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Those are good practical ways to put that
mindset into action and ofcourse I'm sure there are some
scriptures to support this.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
They mentioned Galatians 5.26, which talks
about avoiding envy and conceit,and also Philippians 2.3, which
is about considering othersmore important than yourself.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Okay, so that wraps up mindset.
It's a pretty comprehensivepicture of what it means to
approach leadership and lifewith this leading from behind
perspective.
So what's next on this MAP?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Aim.
We've got the right mindset.
Now it's time to set our sightson specific goals, and the
first one is, not surprisingly,aim for humility and
selflessness.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So it's taking that humility mindset we just talked
about and turning it into anactive goal.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Exactly.
It's not just about feelinghumble.
It's about intentionallyputting yourself in a position
to serve others, to put theirneeds first.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
And what are some practical examples of this?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Well, it's similar to what we talked about with a
mindset.
It's about, you know, activelylooking for opportunities to
serve in your daily life,whether it's at home, at work or
in your community.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So it's making a conscious effort to make service
a part of your daily routine.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Right, and of course, they tie this back to scripture
.
They mentioned Matthew 20.2627and Matthew 23.12, which are all
about how true greatness comesfrom humility and service.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Okay, that makes sense.
So that's aim for humility andselflessness.
What's the next aim on thislist?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
It's aim for servant leadership.
So this is about taking thatservant mindset and applying it
specifically to leadership roles.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right.
So it's about being intentionalabout how you lead, not just
stumbling into a leadershipposition and then you know,
figuring it out as you go.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Exactly.
It's about making a consciousdecision to lead with a focus on
serving and supporting thoseyou're leading.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And they give some real world examples of this.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, they talk about how this applies to all kinds
of leadership roles, whetherit's in the business, a
community organization, evenwithin a family.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So it's about being a leader who empowers others, who
listens to their needs, whohelps them grow.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Exactly, and the scriptures they use to support
this are Mark 10.45 and Matthew23, both of which highlight the
importance of serving others,even or maybe especially when
you're in a position ofleadership.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Okay, so we've got humility and selflessness,
servant leadership.
What's next?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Next up is aim for selfless service, which
emphasizes the intentionality ofgiving without any expectation
of getting something back.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So it's taking that selfless mindset we talked about
earlier and making it adeliberate goal.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Right.
It's not just about being niceor helpful.
It's about choosing to giveyour time, your energy, your
resources without any stringsattached.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
And what are some practical ways to do that?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
They give examples like volunteering, donating to
charity, helping someone in needwithout expecting anything in
return, just doing good becauseit's the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Those are good examples, and I bet they have
some scripture to back up thisidea too.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
You bet they cite Acts 20.35, which says it is
more blessed to give than toreceive, and also Psalm 100.2,
which talks about serving Godwith gladness.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Makes sense.
Okay, so that's selflessservice.
What's the next aim on our list?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
The next one is aim for cooperation, not competition
.
It's about actively choosing towork with others instead of
against them.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Right.
So it's taking thatnon-competitive mindset we
discussed and turning it into adeliberate goal.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Exactly it's about shifting your focus from trying
to win to trying to findsolutions that benefit everyone
involved.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And they give examples of how to put this into
practice.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, they talk about things like seeking out
opportunities for collaboration,valuing teamwork and
celebrating the successes ofothers.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
So it's about seeing others as partners, not rivals.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Exactly, and the scriptures they connect this to
are Galatians 5.26, which talksabout avoiding envy, and Romans
12.5, which emphasizes theimportance of being united as
one body.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Okay, so that's cooperation over competition.
What's next?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
The next one is a little different.
It's called Aim forNon-Interference in Peaceful
Presence.
The next one is a littledifferent.
It's called Aim forNon-Interference in Peaceful
Presence.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
This one is about learning to let go of control
and trusting in God's timing.
Oh, that's an interesting one.
It sounds like it's aboutaccepting that we don't always
have to be in charge, thatsometimes the best thing we can
do is just be present and trustin a higher power.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Right, it's about being a calming influence,
offering support without tryingto force things to happen and
what are some practical ways toput this into practice?
Well, they talk about thingslike practicing patience, being
a good listener and offeringguidance without being
controlling so it's about beingsupportive without being
overbearing exactly, and thescriptures they use to support
(14:31):
this are psal.10, which says Bestill and know that I am God and
Philippians 4.5, whichencourages us to be reasonable
and peace-loving.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Those are great reminders that sometimes the
best action is no action, or atleast no forceful action.
Okay, so what's the last aim onour list?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
The final one is aim for faithfulness in every step,
which is all about staying trueto your commitments and
persevering even when things gettough.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
So it's about having that long-term vision and not
giving up on your goals, evenwhen you face obstacles.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Exactly it's about staying the course, remaining
dedicated to your values andyour purpose, even when it's
difficult.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
And they offer any practical advice on how to
actually do that.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, they talk about things like setting clear
intentions, reminding yourselfof your goals regularly and
seeking support from others whenyou need it those are all good
strategies for staying motivatedand focused and, as always, I'm
sure they have some scriptureto back this up of course, they
mention hebrews 12.1, whichtalks about running the race
with endurance, and matthew25.21, which talks about running
the race with endurance, andMatthew 25.21, which is about
(15:35):
being a faithful servant.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Okay, so we've covered mindset and aim.
That brings us to the last partof MAP practice.
So how do we actually put allthis into action?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Well, the practice section is really about taking
all those mindsets and aims wejust talked about and turning
them into concrete daily actions.
And the first practice theylist is practice, humility and
selflessness.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Okay, so it's taking that foundational mindset of
humility and putting it intopractice, but how?
What does that actually looklike in everyday life?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Well, they emphasize the importance of actively
looking for opportunities toserve others.
It's not just about having ahumble attitude, it's about
doing humble things.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So it's about taking action, and they give some
specific examples.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, things like volunteering your time, helping
out a coworker who's struggling,offering to do the dishes even
when it's not your turn, just,you know, looking for ways to
put others first.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Those are great simple things that make a
difference, and I'm assumingthey connect this back to
scripture, right?
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Of course, they reference Matthew 20.26.27 and
Luke 14.11, both of whichemphasize the importance of
being humble and serving others.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Makes sense.
So that's practice humility andselflessness.
What's the next practice on thelist?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's practice servant leadership, which is about
actively putting the principlesof servant leadership into
action.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So it's taking all those ideas about what makes a
good servant leader and actuallyimplementing them in your
leadership roles.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Exactly.
It's about making a consciouseffort to lead with a focus on
serving and empowering thoseyou're leading.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And they give any specific examples of how to do
that and they give any specificexamples of how to do that yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
things like listening to the needs of your team,
supporting their growth anddevelopment and creating an
environment where they feelvalued and respected.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
So it's about putting your team's needs ahead of your
own ego or ambition.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Exactly, and the scriptures they use to support
this are Mark 10.45 and Matthew23.11, which we've seen before.
Both emphasize the importanceof serving others, especially
when you're in a leadershipposition.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Okay, that makes sense.
So that's servant leadership inaction.
What's the next practice weneed to work on?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Next up is practice, selfless giving, which you know
builds on that aim of givingwithout expecting anything in
return.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Right.
So it's taking that selflessintention and turning it into a
regular practice.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Exactly.
It's about making a consciouseffort to give your time, your
energy, your resources to others, without any strings attached.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So it's about giving freely, without any expectation
of reward or recognition.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Right, and they give some really practical examples
of how to do this, things likevolunteering your time, being
generous with your money orsimply offering to help someone
in need.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Those are great concrete ways to put that
principle into practice, and I'msure they have some scripture
to support this too, right.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Of course they mentioned Acts 20.35, which says
it is more blessed to give thanto receive, and also Psalm
100.2, which talks about servingGod with joy and gladness.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Okay, so that's selfless giving in action.
What's the next practice on ourlist?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's practice non-competition and cooperation
which builds on that aim ofchoosing cooperation over
competition.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
So it's taking that collaborative mindset and
turning it into a daily practice.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Exactly.
It's about making a consciouseffort to work with others, to
see them as partners, not rivals.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And they give some practical examples of how to do
that.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, things like seeking out opportunities to
collaborate on projects, sharingcredit with others and
celebrating the successes ofyour teammates.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
So it's about creating a win-win situation
where everyone benefits.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Right and the scriptures they connect this to
are Galatians 5.26, which talksabout avoiding envy and conceit,
and Romans 12.5, whichemphasizes the importance of
being united as one body.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Okay, so that's cooperation in action.
What's next?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
The next one is practice, patience and trust in
God's timing, which builds onthat aim of letting go of
control and trusting in a higherpower.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Right.
So it's taking that surrendermindset and putting it into
practice.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Exactly.
It's about learning to bepatient, to trust that things
will unfold in their own time,even when you don't understand
why or how.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And they offer some specific advice on how to
cultivate that kind of patience.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, Things like practicing mindfulness, taking
deep breaths when you're feelingstressed and remembering that
you don't always have to haveall the answers.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So it's about surrendering to the present
moment and trusting that thingswill work out in the end.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Right, and they support this with scriptures
like Psalm 46.10, which says bestill and know that I am God,
and Jeremiah 29.1, which remindsus that God has a plan for us,
even when we can't see it.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Okay, that's patience and trust.
God has a plan for us, evenwhen we can't see it.
Okay, that's patience and trust.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
What's the final practice on our list?
The last one is practiceperseverance and faithfulness,
which is about staying committedto your goals and values even
when things get tough.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So it's taking that steadfastness aim and putting it
into practice.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Exactly.
It's about developingresilience, not giving up on
your dreams or your beliefs,even when you face setbacks or
challenges.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
And they give some practical advice on how to do
that.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, things like setting clear goals, breaking
them down into smaller steps,celebrating your progress along
the way and, you know, mostimportantly remembering why you
started in the first place.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So it's about staying motivated and focused on the
long-term vision.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Right, and they connect this to scriptures like
Hebrews 12.1, which talks aboutrunning the race with endurance,
and Matthew 25.21, which isabout being a faithful servant.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Okay, so that wraps up practice.
We've covered mindset, aim andpractice, so what's next?
Where does this leading frombehind journey take us from here
?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Well, the chapter ends with a section called
Respond, which takes a reallyinteresting turn.
It starts talking about howthese principles of leading from
behind aren't just Christianideas.
They're actually universaltruths that can be found in
other religions and philosophiesas well.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Oh, that's interesting.
So it's like they're sayingthat this way of thinking, this
way of being it resonates withsomething deeper than just one
particular faith.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Exactly, and they actually go on to provide
examples from other traditionslike Islam, Hinduism and
Buddhism.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
So what are some of theparallels they draw?
What are some of the sharedtruths they highlight?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Well, the first one they focus on is humility and
selflessness as universal truth.
The first one they focus on ishumility and selflessness as
universal truth, and they givesome really specific examples,
like quotes from the ProphetMuhammad about the importance of
humility, verses from theBhagavad Gita about selfless
service and teachings from theBuddha about compassion.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So it's like they're showing that this idea of
putting others first, of beinghumble and selfless, it's
something that's valued acrossdifferent cultures and spiritual
traditions.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Exactly, and they argue that this shared value can
actually be a powerful forcefor good in the world, like it
can help us overcome divisions,build stronger communities and
work together to solve problems.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
That's a beautiful idea Finding coming round
through shared values.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, and they even tie this back to some of the
Christian scriptures we'vealready talked about, like Luke
14.11 and Matthew 23.11, whichemphasize the importance of
humility in service.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Okay, so that's humility and selflessness.
What other universal truths dothey highlight?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
The next one is servant leadership and selfless
giving, and again they bring inexamples from other traditions
to show how these ideas arereflected in different cultures
and faiths.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So it's like they're saying that this way of leading,
this way of giving, it's notjust a Christian thing, it's a
human thing.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Right.
It's about tapping intosomething deeper, something that
resonates with people acrossdifferent backgrounds and
beliefs.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
And they provide any specific examples of this from
other traditions.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, they talk about how Islam emphasizes the
importance of justice andservice to others, how Hinduism
values selfless action anddetachment from personal gain,
and how Buddhism teachescompassion and the
interconnectedness of all beingsthose are great examples.
It really shows how these ideasare woven into the fabric of
different spiritual and ethicalsystems and the chapter
(23:28):
emphasizes the importance ofputting these ideas into action
in all areas of our lives, notjust within religious contexts.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So, whether we're talking about leadership in
business, in government or inour personal relationships, the
message is the same Serve others, give freely and focus on the
greater good.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Exactly, and they connect this back to some of the
Christian teachings we'vealready talked about, like
Matthew 20.26, which talks abouthow the greatest among us
should be servants, and Psalm100.2, which encourages us to
serve God with joy.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Okay, so that's servant leadership and selfless
giving.
What other universal truths dothey highlight?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
The next one is non-competition and cooperation,
and again they show how thisidea is reflected in other
traditions, emphasizing theimportance of working together
for mutual benefit.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So it's about recognizing that we're all
interconnected, that we achievemore when we collaborate rather
than compete.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Exactly, and they give specific examples of this,
like how the Quran emphasizesthe importance of unity and
cooperation, how Hinduismteaches about the
interconnectedness of all beings, and how Buddhism promotes
compassion and nonviolence.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Those are great examples.
It shows how the idea ofcooperation is really a
universal value.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
And they encourage us to apply this principle in our
daily lives, to look foropportunities to collaborate
with others, to build bridgesinstead of walls.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
So, whether we're talking about our personal
relationships, our workenvironments or even global
issues, the message is the sameWork together, find common
ground and build a better futuretogether.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
And they connect this back to Christian scriptures
like Philippians 2.3, whichencourages us to consider others
more important than ourselves,and 2 Timothy 2.24, which talks
about being kind and patientwith everyone.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Okay, so that's non-competition and cooperation.
What else is on their list ofuniversal truths?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
The next one is patience, trust and divine
timing, which is about acceptingthat we don't always have
control over everything andlearning to trust in a higher
power or a larger process.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
So it's about recognizing that there's a
bigger picture, a divine planthat we might not always
understand.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And they give examples of how this idea is
reflected in other traditions,like how the Quran talks about
submitting to God's will, howthe Bhagavad Gita emphasizes the
importance of detachment andaccepting what is, and how
Buddhism teaches about theimpermanence of all things and
the importance of letting go.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Those are all powerful teachings about
accepting what we can't controland trusting in something larger
than ourselves.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And they encourage us to cultivate patience in our
own lives, to trust that thingswill work out in their own time,
even when we don't know how orwhy.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
So it's about surrendering to the flow of life
, accepting the ups and downsand trusting that everything
happens for a reason.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Right, and they connect this to scriptures like
Jeremiah 29.11, which reminds usthat God has a plan for us, and
Proverbs 3.5, which encouragesus to trust in the Lord with all
our heart and not lean on ourown understanding.
Okay, that's patience and trust.
What's the last universal truththey highlight?
The final one is faithfulnessand perseverance to the end.
(26:30):
It's about staying true to yourcommitments, your values, your
goals, even when things gettough.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
So it's about having that unwavering dedication, that
commitment to keep going, nomatter what obstacles you face.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Exactly, and they show how this idea is reflected
in other traditions, like howthe Quran emphasizes the
importance of striving forrighteousness and remaining
steadfast in your faith, how theBhagavad Gita teaches about the
importance of fulfilling yourdharma, your duty, and how
Buddhism emphasizes the path ofmindful discipline and
perseverance.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Those are all powerful teachings about the
importance of staying true toourselves and our values, even
when things are difficult.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
And they encourage us to cultivate this kind of
faithfulness in our own lives.
You know, to stay committed toour goals, to our relationships,
to our beliefs, even when wefeel like giving up.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
So it's about having that inner strength, that
resilience to keep going evenwhen we face challenges and
setbacks.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Exactly, and they connect this back to scriptures
like Galatians 6.9,.
Which encourages us to not growweary in doing good.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
which encourages us to not grow weary in doing good
and remember that final thoughtin the source material truth
cannot contradict truth.
It's a quote from St ThomasAquinas and it's suggesting that
there might be deeperconnections between this
Christian perspective and thewisdom found in other spiritual
traditions.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
We've seen a lot of those connections during our
deep dive.
It's like there's this commonthread running through all of
them, pointing to some universaltruths about the human
experience.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
It's a fascinating thing to contemplate, and it
makes you think about how theseancient principles might
actually offer some prettyrelevant insights for navigating
the challenges we face today.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Definitely something to think about.
Thanks for joining us for thisdeep dive.
It's been a reallythought-provoking exploration.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Until next time.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
See you then.
Well, we've got some excerpts from chapter 66,
leading from Behind.
It's from the Build for GodMovement Handbook BFG for short.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And what's the gist of this handbook?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
So it describes itself as get this a Christian
edition of the Tao teaching.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
That's quite the combination East meets West.
What's the goal there?
What are they trying to do withthat?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Well, it says the aim is to present the gospel
through and I'm quoting here anew expression of God's love to
restore the truth.
And that leads us right intothe chapter.
We're focusing on leading frombehind.
So what we're going to do inthis deep dive is really try to
unpack that concept.
How does this idea of leadingfrom behind actually work,
especially within a Christianframework?
(00:40):
But also, you know, the sourcetouches on some broader
spiritual ideas.
So we'll look at those two.
Sounds like a plan.
Where do we even begin withsomething like this?
The chapter starts with thisreally cool, almost poetic image
.
It talks about rivers andoceans becoming kings of a
hundred valleys because they'reso good at taking the lowest
place.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So it's not about, like, asserting dominance or
power, it's about humility.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, it seems like it True leadership and even
greatness, coming from a placeof service, of being willing to
be at the bottom, not the top.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It's a pretty radical idea when you think about it.
I mean, most leadership modelsare all about, you know,
striving for the top, being incontrol, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Right.
But then the text immediatelyconnects us back to scripture.
It references Luke 14, whereJesus talks about taking the
lowest place and then beinghonored.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
So you know, it's not like this idea is coming out of
nowhere.
Oh interesting, so they'retrying to show that this leading
from behind concept is actuallyrooted in Christian tradition.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Exactly.
And then it goes on to connectthis idea of humility with
actual practical leadership.
It makes this bold statementthat if you want to be a master,
you have to become a servant,and if you want to be first, you
have to place yourself last.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Wow, that's a pretty stark reversal of how we usually
think about ambition andsuccess, almost like saying you
have to give up power toactually gain it.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, exactly, it's a complete flip right.
And to support this, you know,they bring in the example of
Jesus.
They mentioned John 13, whereJesus washes his disciples' feet
.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh yeah, that's a powerful image.
I mean, he's their teacher,their leader, and he's literally
kneeling down to wash theirfeet.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Exactly.
And then they reference Mark9.35, where Jesus straight up
says whoever wants to be firstmust be last of all and servant
of all.
So again it's like they'reshowing that this isn't just
some theoretical idea, but it'slike the core of how Jesus led.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So what does this kind of leadership actually look
like in practice?
I mean, does it really work?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Well, the chapter talks about the impacts of
Jesus's leadership style.
It says that people did notfeel burdened when he was in
charge.
They didn't feel harmed when hewas leading.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So it's not about control or, you know, forcing
people to do things.
It's about creating anenvironment where people
actually feel safe and supported.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Right.
It's about leading with likeempathy and compassion, not
authority, and the chapter goeson to describe the outcome of
this kind of leadership.
People joyfully glorified him,it says, without getting tired
of him.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Sounds like a pretty effective leadership style if
people are happy to follow you,not because they have to, but
because they want to.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, and again they back this up with scripture.
They mentioned Matthew 11.2830,where Jesus offers rest to
those who are burdened.
They also mentioned 1Thessalonians 1.27 and Acts
20.24, which talk about howpeople were inspired by Jesus's
example.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Okay, so leading from behind, serving others all that
.
It's rooted in Christiantradition.
It's about humility and empathy.
It can actually work, but isthere like a practical side to
this?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, there's this one line that really stood out
to me.
It says do not compete, andcompetition will not meet you.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's an interesting one, especially in today's
world, where it feels likeeverything is about competition.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Right.
So I was wondering, like howdoes that actually work?
Does it mean you just like leteveryone walk all over you?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I don't think that's what it's saying.
It seems more about likeshifting your focus.
Instead of constantly trying tooutdo others, you focus on your
own path, your own purpose.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
So you're not letting external measures of success
define you?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Exactly and the source actually connects this
idea to some specific scriptures.
It mentions Philippians 2.34,which talks about putting others
before yourself, and alsoGalatians 6.4, which says to
focus on your own work and notcompare yourself to others.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Oh, I see.
So it's not about being passive, but about being intentional
with your energy.
You're not wasting it on tryingto compete.
You're putting it towards yourown growth and your own service
to others.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Right, and the idea is that when you're not
constantly trying to proveyourself, you actually create
more space for collaboration andfor you know, genuine
connection with others.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Okay, so we've talked about the core concept of
leading from behind, but thischapter goes deeper.
It has this whole sectioncalled Renewal, where it
introduces something called theTrinitarian Method or, as they
call it, map.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
MAP.
What's that stand for?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Mindset, Aim and Practice, and it looks like it's
all about how to actually putthese ideas of leading from
behind into action.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Makes sense.
So let's break it down.
What's the first stop on thisMAP?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Mindset.
It starts with humility as thepath to greatness.
You know it takes us back tothat river and ocean analogy.
They keep coming back to that.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Right, that image of finding strength and influence
by taking the lowest place.
So how do they like translatethat into a mindset?
It can't just be aboutpicturing yourself as a river
right, right.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
It has to be more than that, yeah, and it seems
like the key here is aboutactively cultivating humility,
like choosing to put the needsof others before your own,
looking for opportunities toserve.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So it's not just about thinking humble thoughts,
it's about taking humble actions.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Exactly, and they give some pretty down to earth
examples, like offering to helphelp out at work even if it's
not your job, taking on choresat home without being asked.
Leading by example, you know,not just telling people what to
do, but actually showing themhow it's done.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Those are good examples, and I'm guessing they
tie this back to scripture.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Oh, yeah, of course they reference Matthew 20.2627
and Matthew 23.12.
Both are about how truegreatness comes from serving
others, from being humble.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Makes sense.
So that's humility as the pathto greatness.
What's the next piece of thismindset puzzle?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
It's called the role of servanthood and leadership,
which really echoes that massivebecome servant idea we talked
about earlier.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Right, that whole flipping the script on
leadership.
So what's the mindset shifthere?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
It seems to be about letting go of that need to be in
control, to have all theanswers.
Instead, you embrace the roleof a servant, someone who's
there to support and empowerothers.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
So it's about being a leader who listens, who helps
people develop their ownstrength.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, exactly.
It's not about micromanaging ordictating everything.
It's about creating a spacewhere people can grow and thrive
.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Interesting and, as always, I'm sure there are some
scriptures to back this up.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Oh, absolutely.
They cite Matthew 23.11 andMark 10.45.
They're all about how thegreatest among us should be
servants, just like Jesus was.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Okay.
So we've got humility, we'vegot servanthood.
What's next on this mindsetjourney?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
The next one is prioritizing others before
yourself.
It really emphasizes puttingothers first, making their needs
and well-being more importantthan your own.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Again, a pretty radical idea in a world that
often encourages us to putourselves first.
Look out for number one.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Right.
It's a big shift, and they evengive examples for this one,
like doing small acts of serviceevery day, helping your team
succeed, even if it means youdon't get all the credit.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Those are great little things that make a big
difference, and I bet there'ssome scripture to back this up
too.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
They mentioned Matthew 20.16 and Philippians
2.3.
Both are about, you know,valuing others and putting their
needs ahead of your own.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Cool.
So we're building this pictureof what the leading from behind
mindset looks like.
What's next?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
The next one is leading by example, not by force
.
It ties back to that idea ofgentle authority we talked about
, you know, leading with empathyinstead of control.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Right.
So it's not about barkingorders or using your power to
get people to do what you want.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
It's about inspiring them through your own actions
Exactly, and they give examplesof this kind of leadership
across different areas.
You know, like a boss who worksalongside their team, a parent
who models good behavior fortheir kids.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So it's about showing , not just telling.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, and of course they bring in the ultimate
example, Jesus.
They reference Matthew 11.2829,where Jesus describes himself
as gentle and humble in heart.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Okay, so humility, servanthood, putting others
first, leading by example.
What else is part of this?
Leading from behind mindset?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
The next one is interesting.
It's called the joy of servingwithout expecting return.
It's about finding fulfillmentin the act of service itself,
not in what you get out of it.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So it's not about expecting recognition or rewards
or even a thank you.
It's about serving because it'sthe right thing to do, because
it brings you joy.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Exactly, and they give some really practical
examples here, like doingsomething nice for someone
anonymously or helping outwithout expecting anything in
return.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I like that.
It's about shifting yourmotivation, focusing on the good
you're doing, not on whatyou'll get back.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Right, and they connect this to Philippians 2.4,
which talks about looking outfor the interests of others, and
also Psalm 100.2, which is allabout serving God with gladness.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Okay, so we're almost through this mindset section.
What's the last piece?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
The last one is avoiding competition to embrace
cooperation, which you know wealready touched on when we were
talking about leading frombehind.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Right, that idea of focusing on your own path and
not getting caught up in tryingto outdo everyone else.
So how does that translate intoa mindset?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Well, it seems to be about consciously choosing to
collaborate with others, to seethem as partners, not rivals.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
So, instead of trying to win, you're trying to find
ways to work together soeveryone benefits.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, exactly, and they give some specific examples
like working effectively inteams, sharing credit with
others and focusing on commongoals.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Those are good practical ways to put that
mindset into action and ofcourse I'm sure there are some
scriptures to support this.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
They mentioned Galatians 5.26, which talks
about avoiding envy and conceit,and also Philippians 2.3, which
is about considering othersmore important than yourself.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Okay, so that wraps up mindset.
It's a pretty comprehensivepicture of what it means to
approach leadership and lifewith this leading from behind
perspective.
So what's next on this MAP?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Aim.
We've got the right mindset.
Now it's time to set our sightson specific goals, and the
first one is, not surprisingly,aim for humility and
selflessness.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So it's taking that humility mindset we just talked
about and turning it into anactive goal.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Exactly.
It's not just about feelinghumble.
It's about intentionallyputting yourself in a position
to serve others, to put theirneeds first.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
And what are some practical examples of this?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Well, it's similar to what we talked about with a
mindset.
It's about, you know, activelylooking for opportunities to
serve in your daily life,whether it's at home, at work or
in your community.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So it's making a conscious effort to make service
a part of your daily routine.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Right, and of course, they tie this back to scripture
.
They mentioned Matthew 20.2627and Matthew 23.12, which are all
about how true greatness comesfrom humility and service.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Okay, that makes sense.
So that's aim for humility andselflessness.
What's the next aim on thislist?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
It's aim for servant leadership.
So this is about taking thatservant mindset and applying it
specifically to leadership roles.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right.
So it's about being intentionalabout how you lead, not just
stumbling into a leadershipposition and then you know,
figuring it out as you go.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Exactly.
It's about making a consciousdecision to lead with a focus on
serving and supporting thoseyou're leading.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And they give some real world examples of this.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, they talk about how this applies to all kinds
of leadership roles, whetherit's in the business, a
community organization, evenwithin a family.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So it's about being a leader who empowers others, who
listens to their needs, whohelps them grow.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Exactly, and the scriptures they use to support
this are Mark 10.45 and Matthew23, both of which highlight the
importance of serving others,even or maybe especially when
you're in a position ofleadership.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Okay, so we've got humility and selflessness,
servant leadership.
What's next?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Next up is aim for selfless service, which
emphasizes the intentionality ofgiving without any expectation
of getting something back.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So it's taking that selfless mindset we talked about
earlier and making it adeliberate goal.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Right.
It's not just about being niceor helpful.
It's about choosing to giveyour time, your energy, your
resources without any stringsattached.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
And what are some practical ways to do that?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
They give examples like volunteering, donating to
charity, helping someone in needwithout expecting anything in
return, just doing good becauseit's the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Those are good examples, and I bet they have
some scripture to back up thisidea too.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
You bet they cite Acts 20.35, which says it is
more blessed to give than toreceive, and also Psalm 100.2,
which talks about serving Godwith gladness.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Makes sense.
Okay, so that's selflessservice.
What's the next aim on our list?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
The next one is aim for cooperation, not competition
.
It's about actively choosing towork with others instead of
against them.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Right.
So it's taking thatnon-competitive mindset we
discussed and turning it into adeliberate goal.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Exactly it's about shifting your focus from trying
to win to trying to findsolutions that benefit everyone
involved.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And they give examples of how to put this into
practice.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, they talk about things like seeking out
opportunities for collaboration,valuing teamwork and
celebrating the successes ofothers.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
So it's about seeing others as partners, not rivals.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Exactly, and the scriptures they connect this to
are Galatians 5.26, which talksabout avoiding envy, and Romans
12.5, which emphasizes theimportance of being united as
one body.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Okay, so that's cooperation over competition.
What's next?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
The next one is a little different.
It's called Aim forNon-Interference in Peaceful
Presence.
The next one is a littledifferent.
It's called Aim forNon-Interference in Peaceful
Presence.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
This one is about learning to let go of control
and trusting in God's timing.
Oh, that's an interesting one.
It sounds like it's aboutaccepting that we don't always
have to be in charge, thatsometimes the best thing we can
do is just be present and trustin a higher power.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Right, it's about being a calming influence,
offering support without tryingto force things to happen and
what are some practical ways toput this into practice?
Well, they talk about thingslike practicing patience, being
a good listener and offeringguidance without being
controlling so it's about beingsupportive without being
overbearing exactly, and thescriptures they use to support
(14:31):
this are psal.10, which says Bestill and know that I am God and
Philippians 4.5, whichencourages us to be reasonable
and peace-loving.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Those are great reminders that sometimes the
best action is no action, or atleast no forceful action.
Okay, so what's the last aim onour list?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
The final one is aim for faithfulness in every step,
which is all about staying trueto your commitments and
persevering even when things gettough.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
So it's about having that long-term vision and not
giving up on your goals, evenwhen you face obstacles.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Exactly it's about staying the course, remaining
dedicated to your values andyour purpose, even when it's
difficult.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
And they offer any practical advice on how to
actually do that.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, they talk about things like setting clear
intentions, reminding yourselfof your goals regularly and
seeking support from others whenyou need it those are all good
strategies for staying motivatedand focused and, as always, I'm
sure they have some scriptureto back this up of course, they
mention hebrews 12.1, whichtalks about running the race
with endurance, and matthew25.21, which talks about running
the race with endurance, andMatthew 25.21, which is about
(15:35):
being a faithful servant.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Okay, so we've covered mindset and aim.
That brings us to the last partof MAP practice.
So how do we actually put allthis into action?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Well, the practice section is really about taking
all those mindsets and aims wejust talked about and turning
them into concrete daily actions.
And the first practice theylist is practice, humility and
selflessness.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Okay, so it's taking that foundational mindset of
humility and putting it intopractice, but how?
What does that actually looklike in everyday life?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Well, they emphasize the importance of actively
looking for opportunities toserve others.
It's not just about having ahumble attitude, it's about
doing humble things.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So it's about taking action, and they give some
specific examples.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, things like volunteering your time, helping
out a coworker who's struggling,offering to do the dishes even
when it's not your turn, just,you know, looking for ways to
put others first.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Those are great simple things that make a
difference, and I'm assumingthey connect this back to
scripture, right?
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Of course, they reference Matthew 20.26.27 and
Luke 14.11, both of whichemphasize the importance of
being humble and serving others.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Makes sense.
So that's practice humility andselflessness.
What's the next practice on thelist?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's practice servant leadership, which is about
actively putting the principlesof servant leadership into
action.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So it's taking all those ideas about what makes a
good servant leader and actuallyimplementing them in your
leadership roles.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Exactly.
It's about making a consciouseffort to lead with a focus on
serving and empowering thoseyou're leading.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And they give any specific examples of how to do
that and they give any specificexamples of how to do that yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
things like listening to the needs of your team,
supporting their growth anddevelopment and creating an
environment where they feelvalued and respected.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
So it's about putting your team's needs ahead of your
own ego or ambition.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Exactly, and the scriptures they use to support
this are Mark 10.45 and Matthew23.11, which we've seen before.
Both emphasize the importanceof serving others, especially
when you're in a leadershipposition.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Okay, that makes sense.
So that's servant leadership inaction.
What's the next practice weneed to work on?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Next up is practice, selfless giving, which you know
builds on that aim of givingwithout expecting anything in
return.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Right.
So it's taking that selflessintention and turning it into a
regular practice.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Exactly.
It's about making a consciouseffort to give your time, your
energy, your resources to others, without any strings attached.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So it's about giving freely, without any expectation
of reward or recognition.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Right, and they give some really practical examples
of how to do this, things likevolunteering your time, being
generous with your money orsimply offering to help someone
in need.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Those are great concrete ways to put that
principle into practice, and I'msure they have some scripture
to support this too, right.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Of course they mentioned Acts 20.35, which says
it is more blessed to give thanto receive, and also Psalm
100.2, which talks about servingGod with joy and gladness.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Okay, so that's selfless giving in action.
What's the next practice on ourlist?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's practice non-competition and cooperation
which builds on that aim ofchoosing cooperation over
competition.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
So it's taking that collaborative mindset and
turning it into a daily practice.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Exactly.
It's about making a consciouseffort to work with others, to
see them as partners, not rivals.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And they give some practical examples of how to do
that.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, things like seeking out opportunities to
collaborate on projects, sharingcredit with others and
celebrating the successes ofyour teammates.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
So it's about creating a win-win situation
where everyone benefits.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Right and the scriptures they connect this to
are Galatians 5.26, which talksabout avoiding envy and conceit,
and Romans 12.5, whichemphasizes the importance of
being united as one body.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Okay, so that's cooperation in action.
What's next?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
The next one is practice, patience and trust in
God's timing, which builds onthat aim of letting go of
control and trusting in a higherpower.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Right.
So it's taking that surrendermindset and putting it into
practice.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Exactly.
It's about learning to bepatient, to trust that things
will unfold in their own time,even when you don't understand
why or how.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And they offer some specific advice on how to
cultivate that kind of patience.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, Things like practicing mindfulness, taking
deep breaths when you're feelingstressed and remembering that
you don't always have to haveall the answers.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So it's about surrendering to the present
moment and trusting that thingswill work out in the end.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Right, and they support this with scriptures
like Psalm 46.10, which says bestill and know that I am God,
and Jeremiah 29.1, which remindsus that God has a plan for us,
even when we can't see it.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Okay, that's patience and trust.
God has a plan for us, evenwhen we can't see it.
Okay, that's patience and trust.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
What's the final practice on our list?
The last one is practiceperseverance and faithfulness,
which is about staying committedto your goals and values even
when things get tough.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So it's taking that steadfastness aim and putting it
into practice.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Exactly.
It's about developingresilience, not giving up on
your dreams or your beliefs,even when you face setbacks or
challenges.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
And they give some practical advice on how to do
that.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, things like setting clear goals, breaking
them down into smaller steps,celebrating your progress along
the way and, you know, mostimportantly remembering why you
started in the first place.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So it's about staying motivated and focused on the
long-term vision.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Right, and they connect this to scriptures like
Hebrews 12.1, which talks aboutrunning the race with endurance,
and Matthew 25.21, which isabout being a faithful servant.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Okay, so that wraps up practice.
We've covered mindset, aim andpractice, so what's next?
Where does this leading frombehind journey take us from here
?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Well, the chapter ends with a section called
Respond, which takes a reallyinteresting turn.
It starts talking about howthese principles of leading from
behind aren't just Christianideas.
They're actually universaltruths that can be found in
other religions and philosophiesas well.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Oh, that's interesting.
So it's like they're sayingthat this way of thinking, this
way of being it resonates withsomething deeper than just one
particular faith.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Exactly, and they actually go on to provide
examples from other traditionslike Islam, Hinduism and
Buddhism.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
So what are some of theparallels they draw?
What are some of the sharedtruths they highlight?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Well, the first one they focus on is humility and
selflessness as universal truth.
The first one they focus on ishumility and selflessness as
universal truth, and they givesome really specific examples,
like quotes from the ProphetMuhammad about the importance of
humility, verses from theBhagavad Gita about selfless
service and teachings from theBuddha about compassion.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So it's like they're showing that this idea of
putting others first, of beinghumble and selfless, it's
something that's valued acrossdifferent cultures and spiritual
traditions.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Exactly, and they argue that this shared value can
actually be a powerful forcefor good in the world, like it
can help us overcome divisions,build stronger communities and
work together to solve problems.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
That's a beautiful idea Finding coming round
through shared values.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, and they even tie this back to some of the
Christian scriptures we'vealready talked about, like Luke
14.11 and Matthew 23.11, whichemphasize the importance of
humility in service.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Okay, so that's humility and selflessness.
What other universal truths dothey highlight?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
The next one is servant leadership and selfless
giving, and again they bring inexamples from other traditions
to show how these ideas arereflected in different cultures
and faiths.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So it's like they're saying that this way of leading,
this way of giving, it's notjust a Christian thing, it's a
human thing.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Right.
It's about tapping intosomething deeper, something that
resonates with people acrossdifferent backgrounds and
beliefs.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
And they provide any specific examples of this from
other traditions.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, they talk about how Islam emphasizes the
importance of justice andservice to others, how Hinduism
values selfless action anddetachment from personal gain,
and how Buddhism teachescompassion and the
interconnectedness of all beingsthose are great examples.
It really shows how these ideasare woven into the fabric of
different spiritual and ethicalsystems and the chapter
(23:28):
emphasizes the importance ofputting these ideas into action
in all areas of our lives, notjust within religious contexts.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So, whether we're talking about leadership in
business, in government or inour personal relationships, the
message is the same Serve others, give freely and focus on the
greater good.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Exactly, and they connect this back to some of the
Christian teachings we'vealready talked about, like
Matthew 20.26, which talks abouthow the greatest among us
should be servants, and Psalm100.2, which encourages us to
serve God with joy.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Okay, so that's servant leadership and selfless
giving.
What other universal truths dothey highlight?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
The next one is non-competition and cooperation,
and again they show how thisidea is reflected in other
traditions, emphasizing theimportance of working together
for mutual benefit.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So it's about recognizing that we're all
interconnected, that we achievemore when we collaborate rather
than compete.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Exactly, and they give specific examples of this,
like how the Quran emphasizesthe importance of unity and
cooperation, how Hinduismteaches about the
interconnectedness of all beings, and how Buddhism promotes
compassion and nonviolence.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Those are great examples.
It shows how the idea ofcooperation is really a
universal value.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
And they encourage us to apply this principle in our
daily lives, to look foropportunities to collaborate
with others, to build bridgesinstead of walls.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
So, whether we're talking about our personal
relationships, our workenvironments or even global
issues, the message is the sameWork together, find common
ground and build a better futuretogether.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
And they connect this back to Christian scriptures
like Philippians 2.3, whichencourages us to consider others
more important than ourselves,and 2 Timothy 2.24, which talks
about being kind and patientwith everyone.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Okay, so that's non-competition and cooperation.
What else is on their list ofuniversal truths?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
The next one is patience, trust and divine
timing, which is about acceptingthat we don't always have
control over everything andlearning to trust in a higher
power or a larger process.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
So it's about recognizing that there's a
bigger picture, a divine planthat we might not always
understand.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And they give examples of how this idea is
reflected in other traditions,like how the Quran talks about
submitting to God's will, howthe Bhagavad Gita emphasizes the
importance of detachment andaccepting what is, and how
Buddhism teaches about theimpermanence of all things and
the importance of letting go.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Those are all powerful teachings about
accepting what we can't controland trusting in something larger
than ourselves.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And they encourage us to cultivate patience in our
own lives, to trust that thingswill work out in their own time,
even when we don't know how orwhy.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
So it's about surrendering to the flow of life
, accepting the ups and downsand trusting that everything
happens for a reason.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Right, and they connect this to scriptures like
Jeremiah 29.11, which reminds usthat God has a plan for us, and
Proverbs 3.5, which encouragesus to trust in the Lord with all
our heart and not lean on ourown understanding.
Okay, that's patience and trust.
What's the last universal truththey highlight?
The final one is faithfulnessand perseverance to the end.
(26:30):
It's about staying true to yourcommitments, your values, your
goals, even when things gettough.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
So it's about having that unwavering dedication, that
commitment to keep going, nomatter what obstacles you face.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Exactly, and they show how this idea is reflected
in other traditions, like howthe Quran emphasizes the
importance of striving forrighteousness and remaining
steadfast in your faith, how theBhagavad Gita teaches about the
importance of fulfilling yourdharma, your duty, and how
Buddhism emphasizes the path ofmindful discipline and
perseverance.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Those are all powerful teachings about the
importance of staying true toourselves and our values, even
when things are difficult.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
And they encourage us to cultivate this kind of
faithfulness in our own lives.
You know, to stay committed toour goals, to our relationships,
to our beliefs, even when wefeel like giving up.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
So it's about having that inner strength, that
resilience to keep going evenwhen we face challenges and
setbacks.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Exactly, and they connect this back to scriptures
like Galatians 6.9,.
Which encourages us to not growweary in doing good.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
which encourages us to not grow weary in doing good
and remember that final thoughtin the source material truth
cannot contradict truth.
It's a quote from St ThomasAquinas and it's suggesting that
there might be deeperconnections between this
Christian perspective and thewisdom found in other spiritual
traditions.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
We've seen a lot of those connections during our
deep dive.
It's like there's this commonthread running through all of
them, pointing to some universaltruths about the human
experience.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
It's a fascinating thing to contemplate, and it
makes you think about how theseancient principles might
actually offer some prettyrelevant insights for navigating
the challenges we face today.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Definitely something to think about.
Thanks for joining us for thisdeep dive.
It's been a reallythought-provoking exploration.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Until next time.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
See you then.
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