August 14, 2025 • 21 mins
What makes Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu so much more than a martial art? Beyond the techniques and competition lies something far more valuable - the power of genuine human connection in an increasingly disconnected world. Jiu jitsu can expedite the process of making close friends and building community. Maybe its because you put in long hours together, or maybe its because your as close as physically possible to one another. Nonetheless, we dive into it here...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
A good martial artist does not become tense but ready
.
Essentially, at this point thefight is over, so you pretty
much flow with the goal.
Who is worthy to be trustedwith the secret to limitless
power?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
The power of community in BJJ and the
question is are you being a goodmember of the community and how
does it work together for youto have a better life?
Deep questions, joe, but I'vebeen considering more and more
that the biggest value injujitsu and being part of a
(00:52):
jujitsu academy is the community.
Now, I'm not talking about theculture worldwide.
I'm talking about you, yourfriends, saturday open mats, ufc
barbecues.
I'm talking about getting thegang together and how important
that is for people and how wekind of lacking it in day-to-day
(01:14):
life.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, well, I'm going to, uh, I'm going to go on that
world fucking politicalchallenge right now and just say
that I think, I think for us inin the west, we have a big
fucking problem in society.
Um, in specific regards tobeing contributing members of
the community yes and I thinkthat this is this is the.
(01:38):
This is the outcome of a modernworld.
This is the outcome of a worldwhere you have everything at
your fingertips and you fuckingwork probably a bit too much and
you're distracted by your phoneand shit, and so you don't
fucking say hi to people and youdon't.
You just don't get involved inshit, right?
yeah, I'm not gonna fucking talkto that cunt yeah, like I, I
actually and and so I think thatfor a lot of people and and I
(01:59):
think most people we're allguilty of this sure right you,
you know that awkward thingwhere you're in line to renew
your license, or you're in line,you're at the DMV, you're at
the DMV, right.
You're at the local Walmart,right, sure, and you're fucking,
you know, or you're somewhereand you're in line, or an
elevator, and you notice thatthere's.
(02:20):
The elevator is a bit ofexceptional, though, because
it's very short, it's quick,right, and it's confined, but
you're somewhere and you'restanding next to someone and
you're, like.
You have that thought of, likeI should strike up a
conversation with this yeah,like that would be, that that's
what people in the movies woulddo or that's what people in
ireland would do.
How are you?
How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
hey, what's the crack ?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
have I seen you before?
what's your name, you're myfather turns out he wasn't what
a fight, but you know, butyou're like I should have a
conversation with this person.
Yeah, and I have that all thetime and often I my, my physical
challenge is, do it, and Ifucking do it, and you know, but
but sometimes I don't and I'mlike I was a shit cunt.
I just ignored that person.
(03:02):
We both clocked each other andignored each other.
But let me finish this point,you know, before you kind of
offer up, but jujitsu offers allof us a respite from that,
because you do talk to people,you train together.
It is a natural icebreaker whenyou exchange in jujitsu and
then afterwards you're havingconversations with people, and I
think that this is what we,this is what our body detects is
(03:24):
like oh, this place is reallyspecial because now you're, just
now, you can act like a normalfucking human versus this
automaton that you tend to actlike when you're out in public.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, definitely, and I think that you know they talk
about.
It's often I don't know if anyof you out there, if you're part
of a corporate environment andthey do icebreaker games,
everybody's going to go aroundthe circle, introduce themselves
and say something unique aboutthemselves that maybe you didn't
know how about the icebreakergame is.
I force my testicles in yourface and you try not to tap.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
That's real shit.
That's like, oh my God, I knowthis guy quite familiar.
Oh God, I have an imprint ofhis fucking sack in my face.
But that's the thing thatjujitsu clears all of the
pretense and all of the nonsense, cause you're, in a way it's
kind of ridiculous, but like youknow, like whether you do gi or
you don't, like no gi, you knowyou're either in pajamas or
(04:18):
you're in Lycra and you'rerolling around on the ground.
The whole thing is so contrived.
But what is amazing about it isits ability to make you
uncomfortable individually andcollectively.
But what's so cool about it isyou either overcome it, you
don't, whatever you battle thisphysical, mental problem, but
(04:39):
the camaraderie built from thecollective struggle, whether
some people better or not, isimmaculate.
And the level of dopamine,serotonin, fucking endorphins,
everything that comespost-jiu-jitsu.
It's like, fuck, you know theworld's better, right, like
we're all here, we're all partof this thing.
(04:59):
That's pretty good, right, andit's encouraging to feel like
you're a part of something.
And I think the biggestchallenge, like you're saying,
with this in the West, is thisisolation.
And I actually heard someonesay the other day that
convenience comes at the cost ofisolation.
Connection comes at the cost ofinconvenience.
(05:20):
That's a great way to put itand I was like oh dang, I think
I like convenience too much.
That's why I'm so fuckingisolated.
I want shit to be convenient.
So we all do.
We're all obsessed withourselves.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
We are what do I?
You know, I gotta, I gotta get,I gotta get this done.
Then I gotta get right, yeah,yeah.
And then you experience aculture where people, you know,
like a great example of this is,um, you go to fucking, you go
on a holiday to fiji, or youknow, you just go to a different
culture, right, and all of asudden it's okay in that culture
(05:54):
for people just to rock up atsomeone else's house and you're
like wait, what you didn'tfucking book a time.
You just show up and they'regonna, you're like, sit you down
and you can have tea, yeah, andyou're like I can't do that.
Like you know, we can't, wegotta let them know like what is
this?
But but you know, it's this,it's a thing, right, like our
culture is all built on.
So you would never burdensomebody with that.
(06:15):
Sure, I would never show up toyour house on a saturday morning
unannounced yeah because that'sa burden on jt, yeah, where
it's like we'll actually knowthat, that like if we allowed
ourselves to do more of that, wemight actually experience a
really nice part of life.
But so I feel like there's agap.
We sort of have this hole likein our whatever, in our fucking,
in our being Collectiveconscious, yeah, and then when
(06:35):
you get that thing at jiu-jitsu,it's like that jigsaw piece has
filled the hole, you know, andyou're like, oh, I feel so good,
how good's Jits.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
The reason why I say this isthat so much of what achievement
is is about creating separationbetween you and another person.
The competitive side of whatlife is is kind of zero sum, in
(07:08):
the sense that it cuts you offfrom others.
But what I've come tounderstand is I've always had
more in common with the peopleI've competed with.
Even though I may have loathedthem or despised them for
various reasons, whether it justbe trying to beat them, we
actually had way more in commonthan anyone else.
And now I'm actually incrediblyclose with those people because
we share the bond of goingthrough that process.
(07:29):
And even if you're not someonewho's competitive, the
interesting thing or maybe it'sa bit of a, it's not a paradigm
but you go to jujitsu, you arecompeting with others to better
yourself, but ultimately thereis no improvement without the
other.
(07:49):
So there is this link, thisbond, this respect, and really
respect is built on trust andit's rare that you have a group
of people who you trust likeintimately enough that when they
go to break your arm, theydon't break your arm.
You don't often just letsomeone try and break your arm
right, it's usually only youonly clown around with your
(08:12):
mates or your family or you know, I don't know.
You know whoever's closest toyou, right, but the funny thing
about jujitsu is you put thistrust in someone who's actually
you, maybe quite a stranger toyou.
You actually don't know themoutside of that context but but
in that context you guys aretight, yeah, you know, and that
community feel is it's reallyfucking powerful and I think
(08:36):
this is why jujitsu is blowingup so much and succeeding so
much, not so much at the top,top sport level, but at the
grassroots community level.
It, it's, it's, it's absolutelydominating in terms of parents,
kids, a place to belong.
It is the new community, um,outside of your family.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yep, I'd agree and I think that I think in that way
right, Like, like cause it,cause the jujitsu is marketed as
, like you know, theself-defense side of it and, um,
you know, whatever, maybeconfidence and that kind of
thing, and it is, it does tickall those boxes.
But I think it's more so this,this other kind of more, um, uh,
(09:20):
like intangible kind of thing,right, that, that that you feel
when you train it, or for aparent seeing kids do it,
they're like, ah, fucking lovethat my kid does it.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
You know and and and that's.
I think that's kind of why it'sblown up in the West, because
we're all fucking starved ofthis thing.
Yeah, we get in the connectionthat we're missing.
Yeah, you know.
Whereas if you go to I don'tknow if you, you know you go to
another culture where martialarts are traditionally huge,
like Japan or something.
Yeah, jiu-jitsu is huge, but sois every other martial art, and
(09:52):
it's not particularly unique inwhat it's bringing to the
culture, because those thingsexist there, that's true.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
But it's interesting.
So I was actually talking toPaul about soccer.
He's coaching his kids' teamand he was saying that the
parents dropped the kids off andthey're like, see ya, I'm going
shopping, whatever it's yourproblem now?
It's like, hang on a second,don't you care about this?
Because obviously Paul cares alot.
(10:15):
He cares about his sons andhe's in there and he's so
passionate to share this thingthat he loves too right, but
he's aware that there's theseother parents and they're not
giving a shit.
They're really it's likechildcare.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
It's like it's like cheap childcare.
I just bought them two hours togo do whatever, and fair enough
, do that if you will.
But what I think is cool aboutjujitsu is when I speak to
jujitsu dads and moms, theystarted and this is something
we've talked about before theywere, they weren't sure if they
(10:49):
would do it, but their kid gotinto it and they're like fuck,
it looks kind of fun, you know.
And then they kind of hang outand they chat.
The instructor's cool.
Yeah, I chat to that guy.
He's a cool dad or she's a coolmom and like, yeah, maybe I'll
do it.
You know, like our friend shoutout to Samoan Strongman you know
, and then it is this thing thatyou are sharing this growth,
(11:12):
this community, this humanexperience with your kids.
It's not just dropping yourkids off at Little League or
soccer or something.
It's like, nah, we all do ittogether.
And so then when there's anopen mat, I just take my kids, I
get to roll, they roll as longas they don't kill anyone.
(11:34):
I don't kill anyone.
Everyone had a good time.
You know, I think it is so goodthat if a gym does it right,
they can help the kids grow intocool, like young humans, and
then it can help adults be, youknow, better humans too, cause
they feel part of something.
It's not just I'm doingsomething for myself Like you
feel, like they feel part ofsomething.
It's not just I'm doingsomething for myself.
You feel like you're part ofsomething.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
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(12:14):
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Speaker 2 (12:35):
Of course you still get those parents that drop
their kids off right and fucking.
I'm gonna use this time formyself week I mean, yeah, do
what you do, yeah, but you know,and that's that's kind of
another one of those symptoms ofour fucking modern existence,
which is that, like whatever,like we're so fucking important
that what I need is like no, Ineed to go do my shit when I
don't have my kid right, whereaslike no, maybe if you watch a
(12:57):
kid train soccer for 90 minutes,that would actually be awesome.
That'd be good for you, foryour kid's experience of life.
And that would be great in thefamily.
And you know like, yeah, andthat would be great in the
family.
And you know like, yeah, allthat shit, right, yeah, it's um,
yeah, it's a, it's a.
We've sold a bit of a lie inthat regard, but I really do
think, yeah, jujitsu has aspecial, special means of
getting people, likecircumventing a lot of the shit
(13:18):
and getting people into thatbecause of the intimacy and the
intensity of it.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, and I say the intimacy in a very like sort of
um like in an absolutelynon-romantic way, like just but
you've got your someone'sfucking head in your face yeah,
like your neck, like it's so up,close and personal, right like
it's physical the physical touch.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I've told the story before, I'm sure, but that one
that pedro sauer mentioned.
When I went to one of hisseminars, which was you know he
was, he was involved in thatexpansion of jujitsu intoitsu
into Abu Dhabi, right Right inthose early days, and part of it
I think.
He said he trained and I'mprobably going to butcher this
in some degree, but he trainedthe children of the sheik or
(14:02):
someone of importance.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Royalty, yeah, yeah important.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And um, the child sounded fromlike what he said.
Um was uh like socially a bitchallenged, right, yeah,
probably on the spectrumsomewhere, sure, and um, and had
never really connected muchwith the father and the father
had kind of mentioned this likenever looks me in the eyes,
never talks to me, and that'skind of you know what it is.
And then, and Pedro trained thiskid in jujitsu for like some
months and then he said, afterlike three months of jujitsu,
(14:35):
there was, uh, they were havingdinner at some point and the
father said saying and the kidlooked the father in the eyes
and responded and the father waslike fucking shocked, he's
never looked me in the eyes andnever addressed me directly.
And it was like it was thejujitsu that that made him like
that, that allowed him to youknow, become you know, and and
(14:57):
he and and for Pedro he was likeholy shit, like this is, I was
just, I was just playing withthe kid and teaching jujitsu and
having fun to and having fun.
And that was the outcome.
Was this fundamental change inthat that child and that
father's relationship andpotentially that kid's
experience of life, right?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, man, that's so, that's so massive and and
especially, I think, for thebest part, if you're, you know,
if you're, if you're uh,regardless of how you're brought
up, you with your kids, youwould want to feel like they
know, you care about them andyou have a degree of connection,
you know, like.
I think that's, that's powerfuland something that part of the
(15:36):
reason why I want to have thischat is.
This is one of the biggesttakeaways I got from this book
called Legacy.
I think it's called the 12lessons we can learn from the
all blacks.
It's an older book but it's sogood, right.
And one of them, which istowards the end, it's either
like number 10 or number 11, ittalks about being a good
ancestor.
They have this really big thingin the culture of the All
(15:59):
Blacks which is like you'rewearing this jersey, this was
worn by this guy and this guyand are you going to be the best
person to ever wear number 10?
, or like you've got to thinkabout yourself in the context of
this team and you've got tothink about those who will come
after you.
And so another thing they haveis this rope, and in the rope is
(16:19):
red thread, silver thread andit's all intertwined and it's
talking a bit about, like, theculture of New Zealand, as well
as football and stuff.
And they say are you being agood ancestor In 10 to 20 years
time from now?
If someone's to look back onyour actions Like, how are you
(16:41):
behaving?
Were you behaving selfishly orwere you behaving with the
thought that you will pass thison to someone else or you will
leave this place better off?
Since you were being here, andit really stuck with me because
I was like, fuck, sometimes I'mdoing selfish shit, we all do it
right.
(17:02):
You do something you maybeyou're not 100% proud of.
You do a bit of a shit job orsomething because you think, oh,
I don't have time, I'm doingselfish shit, we all do it right
.
You do something maybe you'renot 100% proud of, or you do a
bit of a shit job or somethingbecause you think, oh, I don't
have time, I'm a bit tired.
The great thing about jujitsuand being in the community is
that you are passing on yourskills.
Someone taught something to you, so they are handing it down
(17:22):
the line to you.
It doesn't matter if they'reolder or younger than you,
they're just higher up the chain.
They pass it to you, you use itand then you be a good ancestor
and you pass it on to someoneelse.
Now people always joke aroundabout the generational trauma of
jujitsu, where, oh, my coachbashed me, I bash you and then
we're all fucking tough, yeah.
But also the things that peopleactually remember is the moments
(17:46):
of kindness.
As much as you can hardwire thetrauma about fucking just
getting crushed like, yeah,that's not hard to remember.
But actually the things thatstand out to me is when someone
much better than me, strongerthan me, more skilled than me
took mercy on me, let me workand, even in a very generous way
(18:08):
, just said hey, man, maybe youwant to try this, and that
helped me get better.
And that indication ofgenerosity and sharing that told
me like, oh fuck, that'spossible.
So that made me think, oh,maybe I could do that too.
I could be a good jujitsuancestor.
And it's this idea of communityin jujitsu.
(18:29):
It gives you opportunity to belike this.
We don't always get that samechance to to share with someone
we don't know.
You know, yeah, it's so trueman, it's so true I've.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I love that.
I remember I read like, or Ilistened or listen to the
audiobook some time ago, but sofucking cool, right, like some
of the things they do as a wayto maintain a culture, um, and
like a stand, like a, like a,like a code of ethics, almost.
Um, I really like that how youknow you're part of this lineage
, right, and how does thatreflect on your ancestors, past
(19:03):
and and and future?
Yeah, look, I think it's easyin jujitsu to get caught up in.
You know, just wanting to makeyour jujitsu the best that it
can be, and if you are an eliteathlete in it, that is that
should be your priority, right,if you are, you know the guys
that we watch on who's numberone or cj, I like, go and do
that, um.
But for the majority of us thevast majority of us you probably
(19:26):
have a more important place inthe community of your gym than
you really know and you reallymatter to that place and you
matter to the people that trainyour training partners, and it's
important to sort of be awareof that right, to respect that
role.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, definitely, and by just thinking about it a
little bit, it can make youthink that, like some nights,
even though you may not have thewins you want or the roles you
want you know, maybe you didn'tget what you came for, kind of
thing but you being there andmaybe it's just a few words of
advice you give to someone else,or just you sitting there and
(20:07):
sharing with someone, that iswhat makes that place better for
you.
Being there and doing somethinggood for someone else is
actually proven to be good foryou.
Like it's funny.
It's funny to think that beingcharitable or being helpful to
someone else is selfish.
But the things that are best foryou is when you do actually do
(20:30):
something which is a bitinconvenient, or you go out on a
limb and you help someone out,and that might be the thing that
keeps them in the game and thatkeeps a training partner.
You might otherwise lose if youdidn't have that exchange there
.
It is, folks, the power ofcommunity.
We need you Stay in the game.
A good martial artist does not become tense but ready
.
Essentially, at this point thefight is over, so you pretty
much flow with the goal.
Who is worthy to be trustedwith the secret to limitless
power?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
The power of community in BJJ and the
question is are you being a goodmember of the community and how
does it work together for youto have a better life?
Deep questions, joe, but I'vebeen considering more and more
that the biggest value injujitsu and being part of a
(00:52):
jujitsu academy is the community.
Now, I'm not talking about theculture worldwide.
I'm talking about you, yourfriends, saturday open mats, ufc
barbecues.
I'm talking about getting thegang together and how important
that is for people and how wekind of lacking it in day-to-day
(01:14):
life.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, well, I'm going to, uh, I'm going to go on that
world fucking politicalchallenge right now and just say
that I think, I think for us inin the west, we have a big
fucking problem in society.
Um, in specific regards tobeing contributing members of
the community yes and I thinkthat this is this is the.
(01:38):
This is the outcome of a modernworld.
This is the outcome of a worldwhere you have everything at
your fingertips and you fuckingwork probably a bit too much and
you're distracted by your phoneand shit, and so you don't
fucking say hi to people and youdon't.
You just don't get involved inshit, right?
yeah, I'm not gonna fucking talkto that cunt yeah, like I, I
actually and and so I think thatfor a lot of people and and I
(01:59):
think most people we're allguilty of this sure right you,
you know that awkward thingwhere you're in line to renew
your license, or you're in line,you're at the DMV, you're at
the DMV, right.
You're at the local Walmart,right, sure, and you're fucking,
you know, or you're somewhereand you're in line, or an
elevator, and you notice thatthere's.
(02:20):
The elevator is a bit ofexceptional, though, because
it's very short, it's quick,right, and it's confined, but
you're somewhere and you'restanding next to someone and
you're, like.
You have that thought of, likeI should strike up a
conversation with this yeah,like that would be, that that's
what people in the movies woulddo or that's what people in
ireland would do.
How are you?
How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
hey, what's the crack ?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
have I seen you before?
what's your name, you're myfather turns out he wasn't what
a fight, but you know, butyou're like I should have a
conversation with this person.
Yeah, and I have that all thetime and often I my, my physical
challenge is, do it, and Ifucking do it, and you know, but
but sometimes I don't and I'mlike I was a shit cunt.
I just ignored that person.
(03:02):
We both clocked each other andignored each other.
But let me finish this point,you know, before you kind of
offer up, but jujitsu offers allof us a respite from that,
because you do talk to people,you train together.
It is a natural icebreaker whenyou exchange in jujitsu and
then afterwards you're havingconversations with people, and I
think that this is what we,this is what our body detects is
(03:24):
like oh, this place is reallyspecial because now you're, just
now, you can act like a normalfucking human versus this
automaton that you tend to actlike when you're out in public.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, definitely, and I think that you know they talk
about.
It's often I don't know if anyof you out there, if you're part
of a corporate environment andthey do icebreaker games,
everybody's going to go aroundthe circle, introduce themselves
and say something unique aboutthemselves that maybe you didn't
know how about the icebreakergame is.
I force my testicles in yourface and you try not to tap.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
That's real shit.
That's like, oh my God, I knowthis guy quite familiar.
Oh God, I have an imprint ofhis fucking sack in my face.
But that's the thing thatjujitsu clears all of the
pretense and all of the nonsense, cause you're, in a way it's
kind of ridiculous, but like youknow, like whether you do gi or
you don't, like no gi, you knowyou're either in pajamas or
(04:18):
you're in Lycra and you'rerolling around on the ground.
The whole thing is so contrived.
But what is amazing about it isits ability to make you
uncomfortable individually andcollectively.
But what's so cool about it isyou either overcome it, you
don't, whatever you battle thisphysical, mental problem, but
(04:39):
the camaraderie built from thecollective struggle, whether
some people better or not, isimmaculate.
And the level of dopamine,serotonin, fucking endorphins,
everything that comespost-jiu-jitsu.
It's like, fuck, you know theworld's better, right, like
we're all here, we're all partof this thing.
(04:59):
That's pretty good, right, andit's encouraging to feel like
you're a part of something.
And I think the biggestchallenge, like you're saying,
with this in the West, is thisisolation.
And I actually heard someonesay the other day that
convenience comes at the cost ofisolation.
Connection comes at the cost ofinconvenience.
(05:20):
That's a great way to put itand I was like oh dang, I think
I like convenience too much.
That's why I'm so fuckingisolated.
I want shit to be convenient.
So we all do.
We're all obsessed withourselves.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
We are what do I?
You know, I gotta, I gotta get,I gotta get this done.
Then I gotta get right, yeah,yeah.
And then you experience aculture where people, you know,
like a great example of this is,um, you go to fucking, you go
on a holiday to fiji, or youknow, you just go to a different
culture, right, and all of asudden it's okay in that culture
(05:54):
for people just to rock up atsomeone else's house and you're
like wait, what you didn'tfucking book a time.
You just show up and they'regonna, you're like, sit you down
and you can have tea, yeah, andyou're like I can't do that.
Like you know, we can't, wegotta let them know like what is
this?
But but you know, it's this,it's a thing, right, like our
culture is all built on.
So you would never burdensomebody with that.
(06:15):
Sure, I would never show up toyour house on a saturday morning
unannounced yeah because that'sa burden on jt, yeah, where
it's like we'll actually knowthat, that like if we allowed
ourselves to do more of that, wemight actually experience a
really nice part of life.
But so I feel like there's agap.
We sort of have this hole likein our whatever, in our fucking,
in our being Collectiveconscious, yeah, and then when
(06:35):
you get that thing at jiu-jitsu,it's like that jigsaw piece has
filled the hole, you know, andyou're like, oh, I feel so good,
how good's Jits.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
The reason why I say this isthat so much of what achievement
is is about creating separationbetween you and another person.
The competitive side of whatlife is is kind of zero sum, in
(07:08):
the sense that it cuts you offfrom others.
But what I've come tounderstand is I've always had
more in common with the peopleI've competed with.
Even though I may have loathedthem or despised them for
various reasons, whether it justbe trying to beat them, we
actually had way more in commonthan anyone else.
And now I'm actually incrediblyclose with those people because
we share the bond of goingthrough that process.
(07:29):
And even if you're not someonewho's competitive, the
interesting thing or maybe it'sa bit of a, it's not a paradigm
but you go to jujitsu, you arecompeting with others to better
yourself, but ultimately thereis no improvement without the
other.
(07:49):
So there is this link, thisbond, this respect, and really
respect is built on trust andit's rare that you have a group
of people who you trust likeintimately enough that when they
go to break your arm, theydon't break your arm.
You don't often just letsomeone try and break your arm
right, it's usually only youonly clown around with your
(08:12):
mates or your family or you know, I don't know.
You know whoever's closest toyou, right, but the funny thing
about jujitsu is you put thistrust in someone who's actually
you, maybe quite a stranger toyou.
You actually don't know themoutside of that context but but
in that context you guys aretight, yeah, you know, and that
community feel is it's reallyfucking powerful and I think
(08:36):
this is why jujitsu is blowingup so much and succeeding so
much, not so much at the top,top sport level, but at the
grassroots community level.
It, it's, it's, it's absolutelydominating in terms of parents,
kids, a place to belong.
It is the new community, um,outside of your family.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yep, I'd agree and I think that I think in that way
right, Like, like cause it,cause the jujitsu is marketed as
, like you know, theself-defense side of it and, um,
you know, whatever, maybeconfidence and that kind of
thing, and it is, it does tickall those boxes.
But I think it's more so this,this other kind of more, um, uh,
(09:20):
like intangible kind of thing,right, that, that that you feel
when you train it, or for aparent seeing kids do it,
they're like, ah, fucking lovethat my kid does it.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
You know and and and that's.
I think that's kind of why it'sblown up in the West, because
we're all fucking starved ofthis thing.
Yeah, we get in the connectionthat we're missing.
Yeah, you know.
Whereas if you go to I don'tknow if you, you know you go to
another culture where martialarts are traditionally huge,
like Japan or something.
Yeah, jiu-jitsu is huge, but sois every other martial art, and
(09:52):
it's not particularly unique inwhat it's bringing to the
culture, because those thingsexist there, that's true.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
But it's interesting.
So I was actually talking toPaul about soccer.
He's coaching his kids' teamand he was saying that the
parents dropped the kids off andthey're like, see ya, I'm going
shopping, whatever it's yourproblem now?
It's like, hang on a second,don't you care about this?
Because obviously Paul cares alot.
(10:15):
He cares about his sons andhe's in there and he's so
passionate to share this thingthat he loves too right, but
he's aware that there's theseother parents and they're not
giving a shit.
They're really it's likechildcare.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
It's like it's like cheap childcare.
I just bought them two hours togo do whatever, and fair enough
, do that if you will.
But what I think is cool aboutjujitsu is when I speak to
jujitsu dads and moms, theystarted and this is something
we've talked about before theywere, they weren't sure if they
(10:49):
would do it, but their kid gotinto it and they're like fuck,
it looks kind of fun, you know.
And then they kind of hang outand they chat.
The instructor's cool.
Yeah, I chat to that guy.
He's a cool dad or she's a coolmom and like, yeah, maybe I'll
do it.
You know, like our friend shoutout to Samoan Strongman you know
, and then it is this thing thatyou are sharing this growth,
(11:12):
this community, this humanexperience with your kids.
It's not just dropping yourkids off at Little League or
soccer or something.
It's like, nah, we all do ittogether.
And so then when there's anopen mat, I just take my kids, I
get to roll, they roll as longas they don't kill anyone.
(11:34):
I don't kill anyone.
Everyone had a good time.
You know, I think it is so goodthat if a gym does it right,
they can help the kids grow intocool, like young humans, and
then it can help adults be, youknow, better humans too, cause
they feel part of something.
It's not just I'm doingsomething for myself Like you
feel, like they feel part ofsomething.
It's not just I'm doingsomething for myself.
You feel like you're part ofsomething.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
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Speaker 2 (12:35):
Of course you still get those parents that drop
their kids off right and fucking.
I'm gonna use this time formyself week I mean, yeah, do
what you do, yeah, but you know,and that's that's kind of
another one of those symptoms ofour fucking modern existence,
which is that, like whatever,like we're so fucking important
that what I need is like no, Ineed to go do my shit when I
don't have my kid right, whereaslike no, maybe if you watch a
(12:57):
kid train soccer for 90 minutes,that would actually be awesome.
That'd be good for you, foryour kid's experience of life.
And that would be great in thefamily.
And you know like, yeah, andthat would be great in the
family.
And you know like, yeah, allthat shit, right, yeah, it's um,
yeah, it's a, it's a.
We've sold a bit of a lie inthat regard, but I really do
think, yeah, jujitsu has aspecial, special means of
getting people, likecircumventing a lot of the shit
(13:18):
and getting people into thatbecause of the intimacy and the
intensity of it.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, and I say the intimacy in a very like sort of
um like in an absolutelynon-romantic way, like just but
you've got your someone'sfucking head in your face yeah,
like your neck, like it's so up,close and personal, right like
it's physical the physical touch.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I've told the story before, I'm sure, but that one
that pedro sauer mentioned.
When I went to one of hisseminars, which was you know he
was, he was involved in thatexpansion of jujitsu intoitsu
into Abu Dhabi, right Right inthose early days, and part of it
I think.
He said he trained and I'mprobably going to butcher this
in some degree, but he trainedthe children of the sheik or
(14:02):
someone of importance.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Royalty, yeah, yeah important.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And um, the child sounded fromlike what he said.
Um was uh like socially a bitchallenged, right, yeah,
probably on the spectrumsomewhere, sure, and um, and had
never really connected muchwith the father and the father
had kind of mentioned this likenever looks me in the eyes,
never talks to me, and that'skind of you know what it is.
And then, and Pedro trained thiskid in jujitsu for like some
months and then he said, afterlike three months of jujitsu,
(14:35):
there was, uh, they were havingdinner at some point and the
father said saying and the kidlooked the father in the eyes
and responded and the father waslike fucking shocked, he's
never looked me in the eyes andnever addressed me directly.
And it was like it was thejujitsu that that made him like
that, that allowed him to youknow, become you know, and and
(14:57):
he and and for Pedro he was likeholy shit, like this is, I was
just, I was just playing withthe kid and teaching jujitsu and
having fun to and having fun.
And that was the outcome.
Was this fundamental change inthat that child and that
father's relationship andpotentially that kid's
experience of life, right?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, man, that's so, that's so massive and and
especially, I think, for thebest part, if you're, you know,
if you're, if you're uh,regardless of how you're brought
up, you with your kids, youwould want to feel like they
know, you care about them andyou have a degree of connection,
you know, like.
I think that's, that's powerfuland something that part of the
(15:36):
reason why I want to have thischat is.
This is one of the biggesttakeaways I got from this book
called Legacy.
I think it's called the 12lessons we can learn from the
all blacks.
It's an older book but it's sogood, right.
And one of them, which istowards the end, it's either
like number 10 or number 11, ittalks about being a good
ancestor.
They have this really big thingin the culture of the All
(15:59):
Blacks which is like you'rewearing this jersey, this was
worn by this guy and this guyand are you going to be the best
person to ever wear number 10?
, or like you've got to thinkabout yourself in the context of
this team and you've got tothink about those who will come
after you.
And so another thing they haveis this rope, and in the rope is
(16:19):
red thread, silver thread andit's all intertwined and it's
talking a bit about, like, theculture of New Zealand, as well
as football and stuff.
And they say are you being agood ancestor In 10 to 20 years
time from now?
If someone's to look back onyour actions Like, how are you
(16:41):
behaving?
Were you behaving selfishly orwere you behaving with the
thought that you will pass thison to someone else or you will
leave this place better off?
Since you were being here, andit really stuck with me because
I was like, fuck, sometimes I'mdoing selfish shit, we all do it
right.
(17:02):
You do something you maybeyou're not 100% proud of.
You do a bit of a shit job orsomething because you think, oh,
I don't have time, I'm doingselfish shit, we all do it right
.
You do something maybe you'renot 100% proud of, or you do a
bit of a shit job or somethingbecause you think, oh, I don't
have time, I'm a bit tired.
The great thing about jujitsuand being in the community is
that you are passing on yourskills.
Someone taught something to you, so they are handing it down
(17:22):
the line to you.
It doesn't matter if they'reolder or younger than you,
they're just higher up the chain.
They pass it to you, you use itand then you be a good ancestor
and you pass it on to someoneelse.
Now people always joke aroundabout the generational trauma of
jujitsu, where, oh, my coachbashed me, I bash you and then
we're all fucking tough, yeah.
But also the things that peopleactually remember is the moments
(17:46):
of kindness.
As much as you can hardwire thetrauma about fucking just
getting crushed like, yeah,that's not hard to remember.
But actually the things thatstand out to me is when someone
much better than me, strongerthan me, more skilled than me
took mercy on me, let me workand, even in a very generous way
(18:08):
, just said hey, man, maybe youwant to try this, and that
helped me get better.
And that indication ofgenerosity and sharing that told
me like, oh fuck, that'spossible.
So that made me think, oh,maybe I could do that too.
I could be a good jujitsuancestor.
And it's this idea of communityin jujitsu.
(18:29):
It gives you opportunity to belike this.
We don't always get that samechance to to share with someone
we don't know.
You know, yeah, it's so trueman, it's so true I've.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I love that.
I remember I read like, or Ilistened or listen to the
audiobook some time ago, but sofucking cool, right, like some
of the things they do as a wayto maintain a culture, um, and
like a stand, like a, like a,like a code of ethics, almost.
Um, I really like that how youknow you're part of this lineage
, right, and how does thatreflect on your ancestors, past
(19:03):
and and and future?
Yeah, look, I think it's easyin jujitsu to get caught up in.
You know, just wanting to makeyour jujitsu the best that it
can be, and if you are an eliteathlete in it, that is that
should be your priority, right,if you are, you know the guys
that we watch on who's numberone or cj, I like, go and do
that, um.
But for the majority of us thevast majority of us you probably
(19:26):
have a more important place inthe community of your gym than
you really know and you reallymatter to that place and you
matter to the people that trainyour training partners, and it's
important to sort of be awareof that right, to respect that
role.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, definitely, and by just thinking about it a
little bit, it can make youthink that, like some nights,
even though you may not have thewins you want or the roles you
want you know, maybe you didn'tget what you came for, kind of
thing but you being there andmaybe it's just a few words of
advice you give to someone else,or just you sitting there and
(20:07):
sharing with someone, that iswhat makes that place better for
you.
Being there and doing somethinggood for someone else is
actually proven to be good foryou.
Like it's funny.
It's funny to think that beingcharitable or being helpful to
someone else is selfish.
But the things that are best foryou is when you do actually do
(20:30):
something which is a bitinconvenient, or you go out on a
limb and you help someone out,and that might be the thing that
keeps them in the game and thatkeeps a training partner.
You might otherwise lose if youdidn't have that exchange there
.
It is, folks, the power ofcommunity.
We need you Stay in the game.
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