September 30, 2025 • 20 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
You better listen very carefully.
A good martial artist does notbecome tense but ready.
Essentially, at this point, thefight is over.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
So you pretty much flow with the goal.
SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
Who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to
limitless power?
I'm ready.
Slamming in BJJ, grapplingtournaments.
Let's talk about it.
It's happening, and people arenot happy.
It's starting fights, and weneed to talk a little bit more
(00:43):
about where does slamming fitinto grappling and should it be
banned completely, maybe?
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Or is it a fucking super legitimate technique?
SPEAKER_00 (00:51):
Maybe it's an important escape, aka Rampage
Jackson.
Ricardo Rona.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Let's not forget the Brazilian Tiger famously, yeah,
fucking slammed his way or gotslammed by Rampage out in a
triangle.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
That was like probably the greatest example of
the power bomb knockout.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
Yeah.
For those that haven't seenthat, Ricardo Rona was one of
the most winning ADCC The most,I think 16 wins, no losses, no
points.
No points scored on him, right?
The Brazilian Tiger, they calledhim.
Potentially is a fucking animal.
We met him.
We met him at ADC in 2022.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:25):
Lovely bloke.
And uh he went on to fight MMA.
Yep.
And he put Rampage Jackson in atriangle from the bottom.
And Rampage just stood up andwent full extension.
Like he lifted him so high.
It was it was beautiful.
And then just fucking slammedhim and knocked him out.
And then I think Rampage got oneor two shots in.
(01:46):
Brutal.
So my my old flatmate actuallymet Ricardo on a surf.
He was he was involved in thesurfing industry and he met him
and he's like, Oh jujitsu, myflatmate does that.
And he's like, Oh yeah.
And he's like, Can I get yoursignature?
Yeah, he knew he was a somebody,but he didn't know who he was.
And he's like, Who are you?
And he's like, just tell him I'mthe guy that got slammed by
Rampage Jackson.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
He was like, That's my oh, it's a shame to think
that that's he he getsremembered a lot by that.
But I mean, look, I remember himdestroying Sakuraba, which was
pretty brutal.
Oh yeah, it's a fucking animal.
Savage.
But the reason why this came upis I was sent a message by a
friend of the podcast who sentme a video and said, What do you
think about this?
And uh he had Close Guard as abrown belt, uh it was at uh
(02:28):
World Jiu-Jitsu League, whichwas held in New Jersey.
And I was actually uh prettyclose.
Fucking knee bars, no fuckingknee bars, and I was I was
actually in New Jersey that sameweekend, strangely enough.
Slam hurt around the suburbs.
Yeah, I felt it.
I was what the fuck was that?
Um, yeah, and so I believe itwas from clothes guard, and the
guy stood up and he didn't havea submission on, and the guy
(02:51):
just fucking bombed him.
Right.
And the referee kind of didn'tquite know how to react, and the
guy's like, what the fuck?
And didn't knock him out,obviously.
It was no, but it was like,dude, like he can injure people
even just from the waist height,not from like a submission.
And then he gets up and proceedsto get in the guy's face and
fucking headbutts the car.
SPEAKER_01 (03:10):
So the dude that got slammed headbutted the slam man.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Yeah, so he got he got DQ'd for the nice.
That's what I would have done.
Of course, it's the only it'slogical progression there.
But the person messaging mesaid, Hey man, what what the
fuck with this?
And I'm like, Yeah, it'sterrible, right?
Like in almost no um in nonormal open tournament can you
slam.
(03:32):
The exception to this is theADCC World Championships.
No, and it's not allowed in theopens, right?
You can't slam in the opens.
It has to be from a locked-insubmission.
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (03:43):
The o what are the opens?
Like, you know, you're thetrials.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Not not the trials.
Like you can just go the ADCChas their own tournaments now.
Ah, right.
They have their own tournamentseries.
So you could go to like ADCCAustin.
Yeah.
Similar to the IBJ JF.
Yeah.
But you can't you can't do slamsin those.
Right.
It's only in the pro category.
And it has to be from alocked-in submission.
SPEAKER_01 (04:03):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Now, uh a pretty famous example of this is Jeff
Glover had a locked-in triangleagainst Boogie from Tenth
Planet.
Yeah.
And he yeah, Jeff was winningthat match and he he kept it and
he got yeah, he got rocked, andBoogie passed and beat him.
Nice.
Like he absolutely KO'd him.
And people say, Oh, you know,but Jeff knew what was coming.
And you know, some people withthe slams will still hold on,
(04:28):
being like, I'm tough enough toeat this, I want to get the
submission.
SPEAKER_01 (04:31):
But I also Well, I mean, sometimes the slam is
ineffective, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
Yeah, it can be.
Like, especially when you're inthat kind of bold up in that
flex position and you don't getyour head slammed.
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
Yeah, you can but if they time it just right, it can
also fuck you up.
Like it's a gamble, it'd bedevastating.
And I sorry, it's also trickybecause as grapplers, we're
conditioned to slams beingillegal.
Yes.
So you've usually trained thatthat it's not going to happen to
you, and then you enter a compwhere it can happen to you, and
you're fucking right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:57):
And I mean, this happened at Aiga, and I I saw
this firsthand.
Jason Nolf against Diego Pato.
Pato got him in a triangle, soit was legit.
Nolf's a strong, strong guy,stood up, looked at the ref and
said, Can I slam this guy?
And the ref went, Yeah, from thetriangle, which he did.
Didn't didn't really injurePato, but Pato let the triangle
(05:20):
go and they kept going.
But then Pato got the clothesguard and Nolf stood up with him
and looked at the ref and said,like, can I slam the guy?
Ref's like, no.
Still bombs him.
Oh wow.
Gets disqualified.
Wow.
And as a result, uh, you know,team Williams lost.
Um, Pato's like, well, that wasan easy win.
(05:40):
Yeah.
You know, it was kind of sillyin a way.
And, you know, he argued, oh, Ididn't slam him.
I just my knees got tired, and II just but he's holding the
heat.
Well, I dropped him from close.
It was accidental, you know, andI think I think the intention is
what's going on here.
And slamming people becausethey're landing on their spine,
(06:01):
right?
This is the chance of injuries,it's it's up there, you know?
Yeah.
Whether we're talking from alocked-in submission or not.
Yeah.
And so the reason why I want totalk about this is I I've been
seeing it a bit more, you know,people posting clips of people
slamming and then referees beinglike, shit, fuck.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
You know, like the referees like so I give a DQ.
So so just to clarify, ADCC inthe like the pro big comp, you
can do it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
From a locked in submission.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
From a locked in sub.
Or or like, yeah, and you canalso take someone down, right?
So you can pick them up and dumpthem.
Well, that's the thing.
SPEAKER_00 (06:37):
Like you can can you spike?
No.
Not that this one.
Well, I mean, it's kind of notintentionally.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
Not intentionally.
But that's the thing too, right?
In the context of a takedown,and you've got someone on your
shoulder, yeah, you can slam thefuck out of it.
Yeah, so it's fucking and we'veseen that more and more and
people getting upset about it.
EBI?
Can you slam out of so in EBI,once the person lifts you up
above their waist height, youmust disengage the submission.
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Right.
That's the rules.
So the onus is on the attack,like on the Yeah.
Right.
The guard puller.
SPEAKER_00 (07:10):
Or the the guard player.
SPEAKER_01 (07:11):
Guard player.
Um, what about like what aboutlike Polaris?
Yeah, you you've seen some slamsin there.
I think tricky, right?
Because it's become prettycommonplace now in no geek com.
SPEAKER_00 (07:21):
Because it's okay, let's talk about why are there
slams in ADCC.
It's fucking exciting.
Yep.
Right?
It it it leans more towards theMMA element of being the combat
grappling, allegedly.
Um, and then you know, justbreaks the bottle and fucking
stabs him in the neck.
SPEAKER_01 (07:40):
Um, you know, I think Marillo Santana tried to
introduce that rule set, butapparently they weren't happy
with his approach.
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
I cannot I cannot actually speak to the uh the
exact factual accuracy of thisstatement.
Who knows?
Um shout out in the commentssection.
I'm sure you will.
Um, but no, I think the thing isthat um it I think the reason
why the ADCC has it there, and II searched this, there was no
really good answer, is it is alegitimate dys defense to a
(08:14):
submission is a slam.
Yeah, yeah, right?
Yep.
And so you're like, okay,there's that.
And at the end of the day, forthe best part, if you're an
average, if you're just a normalperson going into a jiu-jitsu
comp, you don't expect to getslams from clothes guard.
Or you don't and most people arenot even strong enough if you've
(08:35):
got them in a triangle, mostpeople are not strong enough to
just pick you up from thatposition, right?
That's they're not?
I guess not.
You've got them in a locked uptrain.
Yeah, Joe.
Not everyone is as strong asyou, you've got to remember.
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
You get that adrenaline.
You're not rampage jackal.
SPEAKER_00 (08:49):
No, but it's such a tough spot, you know, like to do
that.
I think the reason why also theADCC doesn't allow it in their
normal tournaments is becausethe chance of injury is so high.
Right.
Like people are getting injuredjust off takedowns, yeah.
You know, broken ribs and elbowsand things like that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
So man, yeah, and it's and it's a it's um there's
an aspect of like uh brutalityto it.
Yeah, yeah, it's like a strike.
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
Yeah, in terms of striking the person with the
earth, yeah, yeah.
And that's you know, that's whyjudo is so tough, you know, he's
getting thrown into the ground.
And I mean, it is availableenough when you see people
getting suplexed, right?
Yeah, like Cody Cody Steele.
I was actually sitting down theroad from him at uh CJI2.
Oh yeah, bro, that guy will justsuplex you into the earth like
(09:39):
multiple times.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
Like I was I was looking forward to seeing more
of that guy in the comp circuit.
Yeah, like in the in the C J ownshit.
Maybe he's gone to MMA, sothat's where his focus is.
Because that that year when hedid trials, there's some great
highlights coming out.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Wild, yeah, wild business, so athletic, so
vicious too.
But reminds me of myself.
The question is uh I don't seethe likeness.
Um, but uh, you know, that'sfine, however you associate,
Joe.
Um I think the thing is shouldslam here's the question, should
slamming be banned?
Because it it seems like there'sthis gray area that people are
getting confused in the moment,and like yes, the ADCC does it,
(10:17):
but where is the line?
Because most major competitionsdo not allow slamming, yet
people are doing it.
Yeah.
From a closed guy position, fromsubmission position.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
I can't, I I don't see any reason.
I I just think it's it's peoplenot being familiar with the rule
set.
And you know, like whatever, wecame up in competitions where
you couldn't do it, right?
No, and then you know, but youwould go to the odd comp where
it'd be like, oh, like, youknow, I remember like at
Bluebelt would be like, oh hey,at this comp, like you can do
leg locks.
Sure.
You know, and it's like, ohshit, okay, wow, this comp's
(10:49):
different.
And then you go in and you'relike, you know.
Expecting that.
So in a way, I just think thatum maybe it's maybe for some of
those smaller comps the rulesets are unclear.
Maybe, maybe their coachesdidn't good do a good job of
explaining it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:01):
Yeah, but it's it seemed to work pretty fine.
But the I'm just talking risk toreward.
Yeah, people get injured withoutslams, but you put slamming in
the rule set.
Is that a good idea?
That's that's probably more whatI'm getting to.
SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
I don't have we seen anyone cop a really serious
injury as a like I tend to thinklike even though they look
spectacular and horrible on thebody, um, I feel like we you we
don't see like a lot of.
SPEAKER_00 (11:27):
Well, there probably hasn't been enough to run the
study on the brain damage or theneck damage, or yeah, you know,
like I mean jujitsu is notfucking not pillow fighting,
like everybody's fucking goingreally hard to fuck each other
up.
Like that's the truth of it.
So um it's more that becausethere's more people doing
jujitsu at a grassroots level,not necessarily an elite level,
(11:50):
but you're seeing super savageyoung humans at Blue Belt and
Purple Belt going ham on eachother, especially in the ADCC
comps and greater rule sets likegrappling industries, you know,
they allow certain leg locks andadvanced categories.
Um yeah, you're seeing plenty ofpeople fucking wreck each other.
(12:10):
I guess the thing is is slammingor should slamming be a part of
grappling?
Like, is that legitimate as a asa part of grappling?
And so that's that's what Iwanted to touch on.
Because if people are sufferingfrom it, and I'm sure there's a
bunch of people who've gotinjured, have it happen to them,
it's just not famous.
It just happened at a small compsomewhere.
(12:31):
And yeah, even if it wasn't inthe rule set, they might have
been on the wrong end of thatand it's done them damage, you
know?
SPEAKER_01 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
So that's where I feel like it could be could be
really good if there's just likea blanket rule that outside of
the ADCC or outside of like aprize money match at the elite
level, just no fucking slammingand it's just super clear, you
know?
Because maybe having the linesblurred is a problem.
The number one thing that isruining your BJ performance is
(12:58):
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SPEAKER_01 (13:36):
But that's kind of how it is, right?
As in, it really is only thoseelite comps that allow it.
Uh you know, from what we know.
SPEAKER_00 (13:44):
I don't I I couldn't say for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
Yeah, right.
But it seems from our I'mobserving that like most of the
mainstream comps, I'm sure likegrappling industries and stuff
and IBJ JF stuff, it's notallowed.
No slamming.
Yeah, so so in that way, no, I'mall for it.
Okay.
You know, just in terms of like,I mean, there's you know, it's
kind of like um fuck do we allowleg locks?
(14:06):
Well, we're gonna somemotherfuckers are gonna get some
ligaments torn.
You know, and it's like, well,that's the game, you know.
So I yeah, I I tend to thinkit's spectacular and I like it.
Yeah, and I, you know, and I do,I do also like, I do also think
it's a like from a from a purityperspective, I'm like, it's a
totally legitimate technique.
Someone pulls some, because it'skind of like guard pulling,
(14:28):
right?
In a way, like like guardpulling has become like like you
will see people slam themselveslike often to pull guard, you
know, they'll like fly ontotheir back and like fuck up
their, you know, whatever, likeand you're like, wow, you can
only do that because we're onmats.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
You know what I mean?
And so you're like, in a way,there's been a departure from,
you know, and of course, it's asport and it's had its own
evolution, but there's a greatdeparture from like what would
actually be effectiveself-defense.
Right.
Um, but I don't think we canlet's not go too far to the side
here.
SPEAKER_00 (15:04):
No, no, no, no.
Sports sports PGJ has nothing todo with self-defense, so we just
can't even No, no, but butfollow me with this.
SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
But so the but so the idea that like it would be
an even further departure,right?
If we're like, oh hey, this thisthing that could be potentially
injurious, we can't allow itanymore.
I think like, no, that's fuckinglegit.
All right.
Well, I think we'll You feelotherwise?
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
Uh no, I I look slamming happens, right?
Even intentional or no, right?
Like someone just loses theirbalance.
They didn't actually mean toslam them and they get DQ'd.
Whereas you've got some peoplewho are who are have bad
intentions, right?
And I and I think this is whereyou, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
And those cunts with bad intentions also do armbars.
They're also allowed to jumpguillotine on you.
Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
They're gonna fucking separateyour spine if they get the
chance.
Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
But what I guess what I'm saying here is that is
it necessary to have slamming aspart of grappling?
And I would say no.
In the same way, many things arenot allowed to be in there
because it's grappling.
You know what I mean?
Like, there's I'm sure there'splenty of people be like, yeah,
but how come you can't fuckingjust fucking shin kick calf
kicks, bro?
(16:12):
And I mean, if you look at lastCJI.
As long as you do with a lot ofinside edge of your foot, you
can kick the leg as hard as likedude.
Uh uh Giancarlo um Voldoni, bro,he was just fucking oh yeah.
Like it was there was no inside,it was just I look like I
clubbed you and bam, leg kicked.
(16:32):
So look, you know, I at the endof the day, I I think my
thinking, because I'm always,you know, maybe I'm a bit
conservative in this way.
I think about injury and I thinkabout longevity and I think
about all this shit.
And I think if you're an averagepunter, just I mean, obviously,
if you know the rules and you'regoing into the environment,
(16:52):
that's fine.
And like you say, maybe at thehighest level or the pro level,
it's like you choose to playthis game, this is the fucking
rule set, that's it, right?
So I think we we we all have adegree of uh what's it called?
Not obligation, you know.
You know, you know what you signup for.
SPEAKER_01 (17:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
I think it's more than when uh somebody, you know,
no fucking knee boss.
You're like, no, dude, it's thepurple belt category.
Somebody breaks the rule ofthat.
Yeah.
And it's like everyone's tryingto play by the rules except for
one person.
Yeah.
And so I feel this is where itcan, it can, it can have some
have some bad outcomes.
But that's, I mean, I I I tendto think that that's that's just
(17:31):
competing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
That's just the rule is already there in those comps,
no slamming, and can't still doit.
And as we know, it's be it's anin it, I I tend to think it's an
instinctive thing for a lot ofpeople who are less trained,
whereby, or seriouslyfrustrated, maybe like Jason
Knolf, yeah, where it's like,fucking get off me, can't you?
And you just you have a youknow, you fuck out and you're
(17:53):
not thinking straight, and youknow, you're like, I can just
pick this cunt and slam him.
Sure.
Like I know I got slammed oncein a in a in a white belt comp.
Yeah, and um, and eh, well,whatever, well, white belts.
The dude probably didn't knowthat was a rule, right?
Sure.
He's probably a rugby leagueplayer and it was his first jits
there, you know.
Sure.
But but even when the rule saysdon't do it, it's still gonna
happen sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
It can happen, yeah, yeah.
But you're never gonna outlaw itcompletely.
No, no, no, it's not that it'snot outlawed, it's it is
outlawed.
People are gonna break therules.
Like you can't, you that's thechaos element.
You can't stop that.
I guess it's more that becausepeople are aware it's part of
the game or they may haveexperienced a different rule
set, then by having it as partof the game, that means it's
(18:34):
more likely to happen.
That might be a long straw todraw, right?
But that's that's more the angleI'm coming from.
So, Joe is pro-slamming.
I am not.
I'm pro, you know, and I dothink just know when you fucking
roll this guy.
Don't go for the triangle.
Fuck man, yeah.
I had a little brain fart.
Fucking.
SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
Goodoosh.
But the but the other side of ittoo is if you know that that's a
risk, then it makes you approachyour submissions in a in a
slightly different way, right?
Like if you're throwing atriangle or an arm bar from the
bottom, yeah, yeah, hook the legor fucking like secure
something, yeah.
Know when to ballet.
And I'm like, I I feel likethat's also a good, like that's
also good for your jujitsu is toknow that, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
I I yeah.
It's a street.
Yeah.
Fuck the streets.
Fuck them kids.
Uh no, I think the thing is it'sjust like it's there's such
variety in what if you just goto like a kind of this might
sound wrong, like more like amum and pop school, and then
you've got some young kidtraining at the baddest gym
(19:35):
ever, and they all slam and theyall bang, and it's tough as
fuck.
And you put these two people inthe same environment, even
though the rules may be statedor maybe they weren't read to
them, they have two verydifferent approaches to
grappling, and yeah, oneperson's gonna end up, you know,
potentially very badly hurt justjust because you've got such a
(19:55):
variety in expectation aroundwhat competition is, regardless
of the rule set, you know.
Anyway, there it is.
Do you like to slam or are youagainst it?
Let us know in the comments,folks.
Peace.
You better listen very carefully.
A good martial artist does notbecome tense but ready.
Essentially, at this point, thefight is over.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
So you pretty much flow with the goal.
SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
Who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to
limitless power?
I'm ready.
Slamming in BJJ, grapplingtournaments.
Let's talk about it.
It's happening, and people arenot happy.
It's starting fights, and weneed to talk a little bit more
(00:43):
about where does slamming fitinto grappling and should it be
banned completely, maybe?
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Or is it a fucking super legitimate technique?
SPEAKER_00 (00:51):
Maybe it's an important escape, aka Rampage
Jackson.
Ricardo Rona.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Let's not forget the Brazilian Tiger famously, yeah,
fucking slammed his way or gotslammed by Rampage out in a
triangle.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
That was like probably the greatest example of
the power bomb knockout.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
Yeah.
For those that haven't seenthat, Ricardo Rona was one of
the most winning ADCC The most,I think 16 wins, no losses, no
points.
No points scored on him, right?
The Brazilian Tiger, they calledhim.
Potentially is a fucking animal.
We met him.
We met him at ADC in 2022.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:25):
Lovely bloke.
And uh he went on to fight MMA.
Yep.
And he put Rampage Jackson in atriangle from the bottom.
And Rampage just stood up andwent full extension.
Like he lifted him so high.
It was it was beautiful.
And then just fucking slammedhim and knocked him out.
And then I think Rampage got oneor two shots in.
(01:46):
Brutal.
So my my old flatmate actuallymet Ricardo on a surf.
He was he was involved in thesurfing industry and he met him
and he's like, Oh jujitsu, myflatmate does that.
And he's like, Oh yeah.
And he's like, Can I get yoursignature?
Yeah, he knew he was a somebody,but he didn't know who he was.
And he's like, Who are you?
And he's like, just tell him I'mthe guy that got slammed by
Rampage Jackson.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
He was like, That's my oh, it's a shame to think
that that's he he getsremembered a lot by that.
But I mean, look, I remember himdestroying Sakuraba, which was
pretty brutal.
Oh yeah, it's a fucking animal.
Savage.
But the reason why this came upis I was sent a message by a
friend of the podcast who sentme a video and said, What do you
think about this?
And uh he had Close Guard as abrown belt, uh it was at uh
(02:28):
World Jiu-Jitsu League, whichwas held in New Jersey.
And I was actually uh prettyclose.
Fucking knee bars, no fuckingknee bars, and I was I was
actually in New Jersey that sameweekend, strangely enough.
Slam hurt around the suburbs.
Yeah, I felt it.
I was what the fuck was that?
Um, yeah, and so I believe itwas from clothes guard, and the
guy stood up and he didn't havea submission on, and the guy
(02:51):
just fucking bombed him.
Right.
And the referee kind of didn'tquite know how to react, and the
guy's like, what the fuck?
And didn't knock him out,obviously.
It was no, but it was like,dude, like he can injure people
even just from the waist height,not from like a submission.
And then he gets up and proceedsto get in the guy's face and
fucking headbutts the car.
SPEAKER_01 (03:10):
So the dude that got slammed headbutted the slam man.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Yeah, so he got he got DQ'd for the nice.
That's what I would have done.
Of course, it's the only it'slogical progression there.
But the person messaging mesaid, Hey man, what what the
fuck with this?
And I'm like, Yeah, it'sterrible, right?
Like in almost no um in nonormal open tournament can you
slam.
(03:32):
The exception to this is theADCC World Championships.
No, and it's not allowed in theopens, right?
You can't slam in the opens.
It has to be from a locked-insubmission.
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (03:43):
The o what are the opens?
Like, you know, you're thetrials.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Not not the trials.
Like you can just go the ADCChas their own tournaments now.
Ah, right.
They have their own tournamentseries.
So you could go to like ADCCAustin.
Yeah.
Similar to the IBJ JF.
Yeah.
But you can't you can't do slamsin those.
Right.
It's only in the pro category.
And it has to be from alocked-in submission.
SPEAKER_01 (04:03):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Now, uh a pretty famous example of this is Jeff
Glover had a locked-in triangleagainst Boogie from Tenth
Planet.
Yeah.
And he yeah, Jeff was winningthat match and he he kept it and
he got yeah, he got rocked, andBoogie passed and beat him.
Nice.
Like he absolutely KO'd him.
And people say, Oh, you know,but Jeff knew what was coming.
And you know, some people withthe slams will still hold on,
(04:28):
being like, I'm tough enough toeat this, I want to get the
submission.
SPEAKER_01 (04:31):
But I also Well, I mean, sometimes the slam is
ineffective, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
Yeah, it can be.
Like, especially when you're inthat kind of bold up in that
flex position and you don't getyour head slammed.
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
Yeah, you can but if they time it just right, it can
also fuck you up.
Like it's a gamble, it'd bedevastating.
And I sorry, it's also trickybecause as grapplers, we're
conditioned to slams beingillegal.
Yes.
So you've usually trained thatthat it's not going to happen to
you, and then you enter a compwhere it can happen to you, and
you're fucking right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:57):
And I mean, this happened at Aiga, and I I saw
this firsthand.
Jason Nolf against Diego Pato.
Pato got him in a triangle, soit was legit.
Nolf's a strong, strong guy,stood up, looked at the ref and
said, Can I slam this guy?
And the ref went, Yeah, from thetriangle, which he did.
Didn't didn't really injurePato, but Pato let the triangle
(05:20):
go and they kept going.
But then Pato got the clothesguard and Nolf stood up with him
and looked at the ref and said,like, can I slam the guy?
Ref's like, no.
Still bombs him.
Oh wow.
Gets disqualified.
Wow.
And as a result, uh, you know,team Williams lost.
Um, Pato's like, well, that wasan easy win.
(05:40):
Yeah.
You know, it was kind of sillyin a way.
And, you know, he argued, oh, Ididn't slam him.
I just my knees got tired, and II just but he's holding the
heat.
Well, I dropped him from close.
It was accidental, you know, andI think I think the intention is
what's going on here.
And slamming people becausethey're landing on their spine,
(06:01):
right?
This is the chance of injuries,it's it's up there, you know?
Yeah.
Whether we're talking from alocked-in submission or not.
Yeah.
And so the reason why I want totalk about this is I I've been
seeing it a bit more, you know,people posting clips of people
slamming and then referees beinglike, shit, fuck.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
You know, like the referees like so I give a DQ.
So so just to clarify, ADCC inthe like the pro big comp, you
can do it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
From a locked in submission.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
From a locked in sub.
Or or like, yeah, and you canalso take someone down, right?
So you can pick them up and dumpthem.
Well, that's the thing.
SPEAKER_00 (06:37):
Like you can can you spike?
No.
Not that this one.
Well, I mean, it's kind of notintentionally.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
Not intentionally.
But that's the thing too, right?
In the context of a takedown,and you've got someone on your
shoulder, yeah, you can slam thefuck out of it.
Yeah, so it's fucking and we'veseen that more and more and
people getting upset about it.
EBI?
Can you slam out of so in EBI,once the person lifts you up
above their waist height, youmust disengage the submission.
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Right.
That's the rules.
So the onus is on the attack,like on the Yeah.
Right.
The guard puller.
SPEAKER_00 (07:10):
Or the the guard player.
SPEAKER_01 (07:11):
Guard player.
Um, what about like what aboutlike Polaris?
Yeah, you you've seen some slamsin there.
I think tricky, right?
Because it's become prettycommonplace now in no geek com.
SPEAKER_00 (07:21):
Because it's okay, let's talk about why are there
slams in ADCC.
It's fucking exciting.
Yep.
Right?
It it it leans more towards theMMA element of being the combat
grappling, allegedly.
Um, and then you know, justbreaks the bottle and fucking
stabs him in the neck.
SPEAKER_01 (07:40):
Um, you know, I think Marillo Santana tried to
introduce that rule set, butapparently they weren't happy
with his approach.
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
I cannot I cannot actually speak to the uh the
exact factual accuracy of thisstatement.
Who knows?
Um shout out in the commentssection.
I'm sure you will.
Um, but no, I think the thing isthat um it I think the reason
why the ADCC has it there, and II searched this, there was no
really good answer, is it is alegitimate dys defense to a
(08:14):
submission is a slam.
Yeah, yeah, right?
Yep.
And so you're like, okay,there's that.
And at the end of the day, forthe best part, if you're an
average, if you're just a normalperson going into a jiu-jitsu
comp, you don't expect to getslams from clothes guard.
Or you don't and most people arenot even strong enough if you've
(08:35):
got them in a triangle, mostpeople are not strong enough to
just pick you up from thatposition, right?
That's they're not?
I guess not.
You've got them in a locked uptrain.
Yeah, Joe.
Not everyone is as strong asyou, you've got to remember.
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
You get that adrenaline.
You're not rampage jackal.
SPEAKER_00 (08:49):
No, but it's such a tough spot, you know, like to do
that.
I think the reason why also theADCC doesn't allow it in their
normal tournaments is becausethe chance of injury is so high.
Right.
Like people are getting injuredjust off takedowns, yeah.
You know, broken ribs and elbowsand things like that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
So man, yeah, and it's and it's a it's um there's
an aspect of like uh brutalityto it.
Yeah, yeah, it's like a strike.
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
Yeah, in terms of striking the person with the
earth, yeah, yeah.
And that's you know, that's whyjudo is so tough, you know, he's
getting thrown into the ground.
And I mean, it is availableenough when you see people
getting suplexed, right?
Yeah, like Cody Cody Steele.
I was actually sitting down theroad from him at uh CJI2.
Oh yeah, bro, that guy will justsuplex you into the earth like
(09:39):
multiple times.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
Like I was I was looking forward to seeing more
of that guy in the comp circuit.
Yeah, like in the in the C J ownshit.
Maybe he's gone to MMA, sothat's where his focus is.
Because that that year when hedid trials, there's some great
highlights coming out.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Wild, yeah, wild business, so athletic, so
vicious too.
But reminds me of myself.
The question is uh I don't seethe likeness.
Um, but uh, you know, that'sfine, however you associate,
Joe.
Um I think the thing is shouldslam here's the question, should
slamming be banned?
Because it it seems like there'sthis gray area that people are
getting confused in the moment,and like yes, the ADCC does it,
(10:17):
but where is the line?
Because most major competitionsdo not allow slamming, yet
people are doing it.
Yeah.
From a closed guy position, fromsubmission position.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
I can't, I I don't see any reason.
I I just think it's it's peoplenot being familiar with the rule
set.
And you know, like whatever, wecame up in competitions where
you couldn't do it, right?
No, and then you know, but youwould go to the odd comp where
it'd be like, oh, like, youknow, I remember like at
Bluebelt would be like, oh hey,at this comp, like you can do
leg locks.
Sure.
You know, and it's like, ohshit, okay, wow, this comp's
(10:49):
different.
And then you go in and you'relike, you know.
Expecting that.
So in a way, I just think thatum maybe it's maybe for some of
those smaller comps the rulesets are unclear.
Maybe, maybe their coachesdidn't good do a good job of
explaining it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:01):
Yeah, but it's it seemed to work pretty fine.
But the I'm just talking risk toreward.
Yeah, people get injured withoutslams, but you put slamming in
the rule set.
Is that a good idea?
That's that's probably more whatI'm getting to.
SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
I don't have we seen anyone cop a really serious
injury as a like I tend to thinklike even though they look
spectacular and horrible on thebody, um, I feel like we you we
don't see like a lot of.
SPEAKER_00 (11:27):
Well, there probably hasn't been enough to run the
study on the brain damage or theneck damage, or yeah, you know,
like I mean jujitsu is notfucking not pillow fighting,
like everybody's fucking goingreally hard to fuck each other
up.
Like that's the truth of it.
So um it's more that becausethere's more people doing
jujitsu at a grassroots level,not necessarily an elite level,
(11:50):
but you're seeing super savageyoung humans at Blue Belt and
Purple Belt going ham on eachother, especially in the ADCC
comps and greater rule sets likegrappling industries, you know,
they allow certain leg locks andadvanced categories.
Um yeah, you're seeing plenty ofpeople fucking wreck each other.
(12:10):
I guess the thing is is slammingor should slamming be a part of
grappling?
Like, is that legitimate as a asa part of grappling?
And so that's that's what Iwanted to touch on.
Because if people are sufferingfrom it, and I'm sure there's a
bunch of people who've gotinjured, have it happen to them,
it's just not famous.
It just happened at a small compsomewhere.
(12:31):
And yeah, even if it wasn't inthe rule set, they might have
been on the wrong end of thatand it's done them damage, you
know?
SPEAKER_01 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
So that's where I feel like it could be could be
really good if there's just likea blanket rule that outside of
the ADCC or outside of like aprize money match at the elite
level, just no fucking slammingand it's just super clear, you
know?
Because maybe having the linesblurred is a problem.
The number one thing that isruining your BJ performance is
(12:58):
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SPEAKER_01 (13:36):
But that's kind of how it is, right?
As in, it really is only thoseelite comps that allow it.
Uh you know, from what we know.
SPEAKER_00 (13:44):
I don't I I couldn't say for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
Yeah, right.
But it seems from our I'mobserving that like most of the
mainstream comps, I'm sure likegrappling industries and stuff
and IBJ JF stuff, it's notallowed.
No slamming.
Yeah, so so in that way, no, I'mall for it.
Okay.
You know, just in terms of like,I mean, there's you know, it's
kind of like um fuck do we allowleg locks?
(14:06):
Well, we're gonna somemotherfuckers are gonna get some
ligaments torn.
You know, and it's like, well,that's the game, you know.
So I yeah, I I tend to thinkit's spectacular and I like it.
Yeah, and I, you know, and I do,I do also like, I do also think
it's a like from a from a purityperspective, I'm like, it's a
totally legitimate technique.
Someone pulls some, because it'skind of like guard pulling,
(14:28):
right?
In a way, like like guardpulling has become like like you
will see people slam themselveslike often to pull guard, you
know, they'll like fly ontotheir back and like fuck up
their, you know, whatever, likeand you're like, wow, you can
only do that because we're onmats.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
You know what I mean?
And so you're like, in a way,there's been a departure from,
you know, and of course, it's asport and it's had its own
evolution, but there's a greatdeparture from like what would
actually be effectiveself-defense.
Right.
Um, but I don't think we canlet's not go too far to the side
here.
SPEAKER_00 (15:04):
No, no, no, no.
Sports sports PGJ has nothing todo with self-defense, so we just
can't even No, no, but butfollow me with this.
SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
But so the but so the idea that like it would be
an even further departure,right?
If we're like, oh hey, this thisthing that could be potentially
injurious, we can't allow itanymore.
I think like, no, that's fuckinglegit.
All right.
Well, I think we'll You feelotherwise?
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
Uh no, I I look slamming happens, right?
Even intentional or no, right?
Like someone just loses theirbalance.
They didn't actually mean toslam them and they get DQ'd.
Whereas you've got some peoplewho are who are have bad
intentions, right?
And I and I think this is whereyou, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
And those cunts with bad intentions also do armbars.
They're also allowed to jumpguillotine on you.
Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
They're gonna fucking separateyour spine if they get the
chance.
Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
But what I guess what I'm saying here is that is
it necessary to have slamming aspart of grappling?
And I would say no.
In the same way, many things arenot allowed to be in there
because it's grappling.
You know what I mean?
Like, there's I'm sure there'splenty of people be like, yeah,
but how come you can't fuckingjust fucking shin kick calf
kicks, bro?
(16:12):
And I mean, if you look at lastCJI.
As long as you do with a lot ofinside edge of your foot, you
can kick the leg as hard as likedude.
Uh uh Giancarlo um Voldoni, bro,he was just fucking oh yeah.
Like it was there was no inside,it was just I look like I
clubbed you and bam, leg kicked.
(16:32):
So look, you know, I at the endof the day, I I think my
thinking, because I'm always,you know, maybe I'm a bit
conservative in this way.
I think about injury and I thinkabout longevity and I think
about all this shit.
And I think if you're an averagepunter, just I mean, obviously,
if you know the rules and you'regoing into the environment,
(16:52):
that's fine.
And like you say, maybe at thehighest level or the pro level,
it's like you choose to playthis game, this is the fucking
rule set, that's it, right?
So I think we we we all have adegree of uh what's it called?
Not obligation, you know.
You know, you know what you signup for.
SPEAKER_01 (17:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
I think it's more than when uh somebody, you know,
no fucking knee boss.
You're like, no, dude, it's thepurple belt category.
Somebody breaks the rule ofthat.
Yeah.
And it's like everyone's tryingto play by the rules except for
one person.
Yeah.
And so I feel this is where itcan, it can, it can have some
have some bad outcomes.
But that's, I mean, I I I tendto think that that's that's just
(17:31):
competing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
That's just the rule is already there in those comps,
no slamming, and can't still doit.
And as we know, it's be it's anin it, I I tend to think it's an
instinctive thing for a lot ofpeople who are less trained,
whereby, or seriouslyfrustrated, maybe like Jason
Knolf, yeah, where it's like,fucking get off me, can't you?
And you just you have a youknow, you fuck out and you're
(17:53):
not thinking straight, and youknow, you're like, I can just
pick this cunt and slam him.
Sure.
Like I know I got slammed oncein a in a in a white belt comp.
Yeah, and um, and eh, well,whatever, well, white belts.
The dude probably didn't knowthat was a rule, right?
Sure.
He's probably a rugby leagueplayer and it was his first jits
there, you know.
Sure.
But but even when the rule saysdon't do it, it's still gonna
happen sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
It can happen, yeah, yeah.
But you're never gonna outlaw itcompletely.
No, no, no, it's not that it'snot outlawed, it's it is
outlawed.
People are gonna break therules.
Like you can't, you that's thechaos element.
You can't stop that.
I guess it's more that becausepeople are aware it's part of
the game or they may haveexperienced a different rule
set, then by having it as partof the game, that means it's
(18:34):
more likely to happen.
That might be a long straw todraw, right?
But that's that's more the angleI'm coming from.
So, Joe is pro-slamming.
I am not.
I'm pro, you know, and I dothink just know when you fucking
roll this guy.
Don't go for the triangle.
Fuck man, yeah.
I had a little brain fart.
Fucking.
SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
Goodoosh.
But the but the other side of ittoo is if you know that that's a
risk, then it makes you approachyour submissions in a in a
slightly different way, right?
Like if you're throwing atriangle or an arm bar from the
bottom, yeah, yeah, hook the legor fucking like secure
something, yeah.
Know when to ballet.
And I'm like, I I feel likethat's also a good, like that's
also good for your jujitsu is toknow that, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
I I yeah.
It's a street.
Yeah.
Fuck the streets.
Fuck them kids.
Uh no, I think the thing is it'sjust like it's there's such
variety in what if you just goto like a kind of this might
sound wrong, like more like amum and pop school, and then
you've got some young kidtraining at the baddest gym
(19:35):
ever, and they all slam and theyall bang, and it's tough as
fuck.
And you put these two people inthe same environment, even
though the rules may be statedor maybe they weren't read to
them, they have two verydifferent approaches to
grappling, and yeah, oneperson's gonna end up, you know,
potentially very badly hurt justjust because you've got such a
(19:55):
variety in expectation aroundwhat competition is, regardless
of the rule set, you know.
Anyway, there it is.
Do you like to slam or are youagainst it?
Let us know in the comments,folks.
Peace.
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