November 21, 2025 • 20 mins
Get the ULTIMATE program for BJJ--
iOS: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bulletproof-for-bjj/id6444311790
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bulletproofforbjj&utm_source=na_Med
Stay hydrated with Sodii & get 15% OFF: BULLETPROOF15 https://sodii.com.au/bulletproof
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Is your will to win and your need to be competitive
holding back your jujitsu?
This is a guilty.
Uh this is a challenging thingbecause it's not that anyone
wants to lose when they aredoing BJJ, but playing your A
game all the time could beholding back your learning.
(00:22):
So we're going to talk aboutthis competitive versus creative
piece and and really see howthis might this might help you
or hinder you, depending on howyou're approaching your jujitsu
right now.
Um now I am an ultra competitiveperson.
I don't like to lose atanything.
(00:43):
And uh this is possibly why I'mI am not happy a lot of the time
because I'm trying to wineverything.
But also I like doing somecreative shit because it's it's
fun.
But I I find it hard to not becompetitive when I'm at jujitsu.
Uh especially, especially if I'mrolling somebody who's really
good and they're putting it onme.
(01:04):
I I can't accept, you know, it'sit's one of those things.
Like I just I there's somethingin me.
I don't know where it's justwhat if it's someone that's not
that good that's putting it onyou?
Yeah, they got lucky.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
No, is that not worse than someone who's really
good putting it on you?
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
A lot of cope going on right here.
Um steroids.
Um no, I I for me, I have alwayswanted to be the best, and so I
find it difficult to not havethat as a default mode.
But I've had my best rolesactually where I wasn't actually
trying to win.
Like the exchange was better.
(01:42):
Have you have you found this Joewhere where you've had a role
which maybe was like verycompetitive, but then maybe not
much happened or it wasn't ohfuck, yeah, all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
I mean, yeah, totally right.
Um, Adam and I have this all thetime where he pulls reverse Dela
Heva and I enter my knee cut.
Yeah.
And just and it's and we and wewe go every time we go there,
and every time we both go, haha,here we are again.
We're gonna be here all day.
And and maybe 30 to 40 percentof the time I cut through.
(02:13):
Uh maybe it's more like half thetime I get through.
Half and half, yeah.
But you know, he'll have acounter thing, but then then
half of the times I get through,I'll, you know, whatever, have
side control or some kind ofdominant position.
But we're just like, why thefuck do we keep doing this every
fucking time?
Yeah, but it's because A gameversus A game.
Yeah, and it's like, and and andwe've spoken about it, and it's
(02:34):
like, well, we actually hardlyget to train together.
So when we train together, it'slike, well, I just want to
fucking go for it.
Yeah, I just want to fuckingthrow down and I want to beat
you.
Give it your best.
Yeah, and and so so you know, anacknowledgement there, right?
If we were trained togetherevery night or four times a
week, and that was happening,you'd be like, guys, this is
ridiculous.
Like, we need to fucking dosomething else.
SPEAKER_01 (02:56):
You could temper it a bit more, maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
Yeah, but but yeah, so yeah, I mean, I'm a
particularly as I've done lessjujitsu in recent years, my
default is to just do what Ialways do.
Sure.
So you end up playing your Agame, right?
Definitely, um, and for sure, ittotally closes you off from the
myriad of other positions andthings you could be learning.
I I think the thing that you'regonna fucking lose, so what are
(03:19):
you gonna do?
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
And and you know, without without going too cliche
on it, it was uh the thing thathighlighted this to me was um so
shout out to my my house brotherand friend and bulletproof
athlete uh Fabinho Coloy, heplays Delaheva on the offside,
like on the right side.
And I don't know why it startedlike that for him, or maybe he
(03:42):
chose it, but I always playedDelaheiva on the left side.
And when he started doing thatto me, I was like As in your
going around to the left, he heso I he likes to go around to
the right.
Yeah, he always hooks with theright side and he bolos to that
side and he he has these sweepsset off that side, and it's it's
kind of like someone who's asouthpaw in boxing, it throws
(04:03):
you off straight away.
You're like, oh hang on, they'replaying their guard to the
opposite side.
I'm not as good at I'm not asgood at cutting to that, I'm not
as good at dealing with that,and so it challenges you.
And then when we were umpracticing positions, he would
say, Oh man, let's do it on thisside.
And it it's I guess it's like ifyou're used to training a skill
or like hitting a hammer withyour right hand, you try and hit
(04:24):
with your left, and you're like,My God, my left is so much
worse.
We all I think we're all awarethat we have a uh a dominant
side, whether it's guard or aknee cut pass or whatever it is,
right?
But he forced me to play on theopposite side.
The interesting thing I foundwith this, and this kind of
throws me back to high schoolwhen I played basketball, my
(04:45):
stronger side actually gotbetter, even though it sounds
strange.
My old basketball coach used tomake us shoot with our
non-dominant hand, and as soonas I would switch back, it it
might it felt so much easier tojust shoot with my dominant
side, and so by going to thatplaying Delahea on the offside
(05:06):
on my non-preferred side, I gotpast more and I was uh not as
good there, but after aboutthree months, I got really good
there, and so I could playeither side, and then it was
just like my jujitsu justexpanded, and it it's kind of
like that the the willingness tosuck or feel foolish or be shit
in the short term that thenunlocks uh bigger gains.
SPEAKER_00 (05:29):
Yeah, it's it's it's a funny comparison you make with
the basketball thing because Iwas just thinking about if you
were doing that, thenpotentially at training, at
basketball training, coacheslike, yeah, just shoot with your
with your with your offhand.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
And say like, okay, no worries, and you're probably
missing most of your shots,right?
Yeah, but it doesn't matter,it's training.
Yes, and then I'm sure if you'replaying games through that
point, Cajus are like, don't doit at the games, at the games
play your good side, right?
Yeah, yeah.
But with jujitsu, training isthe game.
SPEAKER_01 (05:57):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
For most of us, yeah.
Training is the competition, andso you're like this this time
where you're in the lab trainingwhere you really should feel
like you're like, I can'tfucking do that, I've got to
beat everyone.
Yeah, I kind of I can't fuckinglose, you know.
But but this is the irony of it,and this is where you get that
that sort of different paths ofcompetitors versus hobbies,
(06:19):
because competitors are like,no, I actually do competitions,
they have a will of it.
So training is different for me,and you and it's sort of ironic
that a lot of those, like a lotof the really good competitors,
will be working on things andallow themselves to suck in
training so that they canperform better at comp.
Yeah.
Whereas the hobbyists are like,I will not lose training.
This is to the death.
(06:40):
Yeah, and the hobbyists will goaway and be like, yo, I fucking
pass so-and-so's garb.
Yeah, that guy just fucking wonthe Australian like Nogi
championships, and I passed himand choked him, you know, twice
this week.
Yeah.
So by default, I'm obviously Iam the Australian champion.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
I stole his aura.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
Gary Tonan says that, right?
Yeah.
That he, you know, he famouslygets subbed a bunch of times in
training.
SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
Yeah, and and actually Bernardo Faria was very
famous for getting tapped out bylower rank people in training,
and all the senior belts arelike, what's wrong with you?
You just got tapped out by boob.
But but then in comp, he wouldcompete against me, can't yeah,
and find out what it's like.
Then it's it is a differentscenario.
And I think it is it ischallenging for folks who don't
compete regularly because, likeyou say, that is their
(07:26):
competition, that is theexpression of their competitive
spirit.
So fuck, you gotta let them getit, right?
Yeah, and I'm not saying don'tbe competitive.
No, yeah, it's fuck part of thefun.
Get it, you know.
That's that it is.
I love what I love about jujitsuis it is an excuse to express
intensity.
And therefore, you know, the youknow, the great post-Jiu-Jitsu
(07:49):
just you know, you just walkout, yeah, fuck, the world's
okay, you know?
Drive home, you're just likeit's fine.
You know, like you just youknow, you just have this, it's
kind of like being high.
You're just like, it's all good,man.
Like, no stress, you know, likeit's just a it's a it's it's
such an amazing feeling, thepost-Jiu-Jitsu high, because
you've been able to get out allthe stress and all the nerves
(08:11):
and all the everything, as wellas having all the connectedness
and everything else.
The the the thing which I wantedto get to on this is like there
there was actually a study doneshowing that if something was
learnt, uh, a skill, it wasactually a a skill, it was
soccer skills, actually.
Let's speak to you, Joe.
Um, that certain soccer skillsGod's game.
(08:32):
God's game, football.
I've regarded this.
Um, the thing is when the skillswere framed as a game, they were
absorbed four times faster thanjust skills practiced
individually.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
So when uh there was done with kids between the age
of 10 to 14, like pre-pubescentkids, I guess, and so they were
getting them to just practicelike cone drills versus getting
them to try to complete certainmovements before shooting,
right?
Which were which resulted inthem having to dribble more.
But when they came back and theyretested the kids who'd done
(09:10):
cone drills versus the kidswho'd done the games, the kids
who'd done 20 minutes of gamesversus like I think it was like
two or three hours of conedrills, actually performed
better on the cone drills.
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:23):
Pardon me.
And so what they're saying hereis that the the ability to
absorb the lesson or kind oftake in the message or the skill
it was actually their theirbrains were more receptive in
the fun, creative, playfulelement as opposed to the idea
of drilling.
And I know that all my uh CLAGreg Souters, all my guys out
(09:47):
there will be like, constraintsbased games, boy.
What?
Gee, Souders, am I right?
Uh shout out DeAndre.
Um, but yeah, and it was justinteresting because obviously
that's a that's very specificsoccer.
It's but but they were justsaying that the it's the fun and
the creativity of it wasn't toldto them specifically what they
(10:08):
had to do, but through this gamethey were forced to dribble and
move, and that meant that theygot better at the skill because
it was creative and fun.
It wasn't necessarily likedrilled into them, do this a
hundred times and you must kindof thing.
SPEAKER_00 (10:23):
Yeah, right.
They weren't given exactinstructions on how to execute
the thing.
No, it's like get from point Ato point B.
B.
SPEAKER_01 (10:30):
Yeah, and it would but they had to have a certain
amount of touches before they'reallowed to shoot or whatever it
was.
And so this idea of beingcreative, because the thing that
I've always been extremelygrateful for, and you you might
have had this too, Joe, whereyou you're rolling with someone
who's way better than you andthey let you work a bit.
I mean, I find it frustratingnow.
(10:51):
I I find it concentrating.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
Fucking catching in a cheeky armbar, they went and
you just fucking bang, cunt.
You fucking walk out of there,you're like I tap that cunt.
SPEAKER_01 (11:01):
No, I thought it was good.
I don't think that no, not that.
Well, I had it, I well, I had itthe other day uh about a bit
over a month ago.
I had a role with uh NicoMajillic and he um he just he
just he's not like he let mework, but he didn't he didn't
smash me.
Best heavyweight gee guy.
I could not do much to him.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
No gee guy in the country, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
Gee and no gi.
Like he's pretty under he's allaround.
I think he's Australia's mostachieved competitor.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
World champion in the gi, right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
Weight and absolute in at purple and at brown.
Wow.
And and and so not just worlds,I think Pan Americans and he
might have won Euros.
Like he's all of it, all of itin the gi.
And now he is doing more no-gee.
So you're gonna see more of him.
The two elements that you needto guarantee your success in the
gym are guidance andaccountability.
(11:51):
The big mistake that we seepeople making when training for
BJJ is doing random workouts.
That's why we made theBulletproof for BJJ app.
We have our online communitythat can give you feedback and
help you out, and then we alsohave our structured programs
that will get you fitter,stronger, and more flexible for
BJJ.
We got a 14-day free trial.
(12:13):
Get in there, try it out, and ifyou decide that it's not for
you, we have a hundred percentmoney back guarantee.
So go to the Play Store, go tothe app store, download the app,
and we'll see you on the inside.
He was too nice to me.
It was it felt it hurt mebecause it was condescending.
And he was like, nah, man, no, Ididn't have it.
(12:34):
I was like, bullshit, dude.
You could have you could havearmbared me, just do it.
And he's like, No, I didn't, Ididn't have it, you know.
And he's so like he's so laidback and so nice about it.
I was like, damn it, he's somuch better than me.
He doesn't even need to try, youknow.
And that's it's the same thingwith um also a very handsome
man.
Oh, he's a lovely guy, and he itsounds he really sounds like the
complete package.
He's a lovely guy, he's verydown to earth.
(12:54):
You talk to him, you're like,there's no pretense about him.
Wow, fuck shit.
It's gotta be steroids.
No, he's he's the most nattyguy, you could just look at him.
But it it's funny that uh likeLevi, I remember rolling with
Levi a couple years back.
He just dropped in randomly toVantage when it was at the old
gym.
Yeah, and no, he just came in.
(13:15):
Um and I I was taking the lunchclass and and he just jumped in
and we had a roll, and you know,I wasn't trying super hard, but
I was trying to feel what he wasdoing, and very quickly he took
my back.
Yeah, and then I was like,right, he's gonna finish me here
because this is fucking LeviLevi Zanadu.
He's got my back, I'm introuble.
And then he he had me in thebody triangle and then he
(13:36):
switched out and went tosomething else.
And I was like, What are youdoing?
And he's like, No, man, I'm justI'm just working here, you know,
like he was just grooving,vibing and sliding, and I was
like, do it.
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
You're like finish me so that I get a second shot
at taking your head off.
SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
Give me a reason to fight back.
He just did it, you know,because it's just training, and
I think that's the thing whereit's when somebody is being
creative and they're justthey're not probably too focused
on trying to win, better jujitsutranspires.
Yeah, you you you probably wouldhave you know have you had that
(14:13):
experience where you've maybe itwas not something you predicted,
but you just had a really greatrole with somebody, like the
exchange was good.
SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
Yeah, fuck, heaps of times, heaps of times.
Some of the some of the best,some of the best roles I've had
have been under that within thatcontext of like, hey, let's
let's not try and kill eachother tonight.
You know, I think back to someof the guys training more
recently over at at um atBalmain, yeah, um, like Lockie
and and Rod and stuff, whereit's like, yeah, you know, with
(14:42):
Lockie, we had that conversationof like, hey, let's not try,
because we're very competitivewith each other.
And then as soon as we both saidthat, the training was sick.
Yeah.
And you know, shit happens, andyou get these mad opportunities,
and you you find yourself insituations that you didn't find
yourself in before.
Um, another good tip that I gotfrom Coach Paul, actually, Paul
Smeebert, was like, don't he wastalking about he was talking
(15:06):
about a reflection on when um Ithink Declan had come in to
teach a seminar there, and hewas talking about how some of
the boys just like when theycame to roll, they put it on
him, and he's like, Declanfucking smashed them.
But they put it, they put it onhim real hard, um, which he
goes, I just thought it wasuncool, but also they didn't
allow any space to just feel itout a bit, and so he was like,
(15:31):
You can go into the role andplay a bit defensively, but let
him like let them move, likesee, like just keep your guard
retention, like you know, keepyour defense tight, see what
they do, but don't try todominate from the beginning.
And I thought, fuck, that's andI've you know, playing like that
might sometimes after they'rehaving that conversation, it's
like you see opportunities thatyou didn't used to see when
(15:53):
you're just trying to smash,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
You know, yeah, and look, Declan is I mean,
obviously, Declan is a nightmareand is is Yeah, like he's he's
gonna get you eventually, right?
Yeah, yeah, but I mean Iwhatever I trained with, but but
as a I trained with Declan, Ithink like maybe 18 months ago.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
Yeah, and he was so nice to me.
Well, yeah, an elite, an eliteguy like that, similar to Nico
and Levi, right?
They just they don't have toprove anything.
No.
So you know, if you if you ifyou're coming at it with a
slightly more chilled energy,they're probably gonna match it
and it's gonna be great.
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
You know?
SPEAKER_01 (16:23):
Yeah, and and I it probably comes back more to like
a if we think of jujitsu kind oflike a conversation, that if if
someone's just yelling at you,then they can't hear what you
have to say, and that uh whenyou are listening more, then
then there's more of anexchange.
Yeah.
That I hear your point of view,my point of view, it's not even
(16:44):
an argument, it's just anexchange, and that's where the
learning is because you'reactually you're listening, and
that when you're beingcompetitive, you're just
yelling, and it's just a yellingmatch, and that I yell louder,
you yell louder, and then it'sit's that doesn't actually
result in you taking anythingaway from what they did, you
know, and it's it is coolactually, and it can come from a
(17:05):
competitive role when someonedoes something to you and you
don't know what it is, you'relike, What the what was that?
And then after the role, you go,Hey man, what was that thing you
just fucking hit me with?
Oh, it's just this thing where Ido this and do that, and you go,
What the fuck?
And they show it to you, andthen you're like, God damn, like
the the learning is reallythere, yeah.
And and that that is, Idefinitely find that I have in
(17:28):
the past made had reallyterrible roles just by not
allowing jujitsu to happen.
Like, I'm not gonna lose.
Like, it's not even aboutwinning, it's just like I refuse
to lose, so therefore, we'rejust gonna grind out this one
position for five minutes andthen you go nowhere, I go
nowhere, and oh, you didn't tapme.
SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
You know, like that's yeah, it gets a bit yeah,
it's you you get disappointed inyourself, right?
Yeah.
Like playing that way.
Because it's like what jujitsuactually happened.
Yeah, what what did I gain fromthat?
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
Like, you know, let alone not even asking what did
they gain, but like what did wecreate?
But it's like, what did I learnfrom that?
You're like, well, nothing.
I just did what I always do andI didn't lose.
SPEAKER_01 (18:10):
Yeah, and that's I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (18:12):
Maybe you still lost it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:13):
Yeah, maybe that is the losing.
Like the the mentality in and ofitself is is the loss.
And this idea of training versuscompeting, or like, yeah, it
wouldn't matter if you're doingjujitsu or you're lifting
weights, like there's definitelyroom for less intensity.
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
But I but I do think to that point, you know, because
you might be hearing thisdiscussion thinking, yeah, fuck,
I need to back it off a littlebit on the on the hyper
competitive piece and like youknow, allow some more shit to
happen, you can't do it witheveryone.
No, there's certain people outthere that you that you can't
give that sort of freedom to.
SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Um, because you can get unsafe too, like Yeah, like
that's right.
Like if you're rolling withsomeone that's scrappy and
competitive and maybe a bitoblivious to the nature of the
role.
Or maybe they're fucking mean.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Yeah.
They'll take advantage, youknow.
Like if you give people somepeople, as much as you like to
think, oh man, I can trust mytraining partners, there's some
people out there if probably notall of them know that you know
they might they might crank it abit, or if they get get space on
you, then they might slam you,or like, you know, like there's
there's those people, and justfor self-preservation, you've
(19:17):
got to keep a degree of youknow, you've got to match that
the energy is almost like a it'salmost like a form of
self-defense to not be like, oh,I'm just being creative today
and yeah, uh, whatever it mightbe.
Oh stack pass.
But yeah, I think that yeah, Ias someone who is uh hyper
competitive, for sure thelearning being competitive is is
(19:42):
is kind of the doing and theexpression, but it's not it's
not the learning, it's the thethe creativity and the openness
is really where the improvementsoccur.
And it's it's that I I guessthat idea of the difference
between um creating and thenexecuting their I think you've
said it before when we've talkedabout content.
(20:04):
What's that what's that phrase,Joe?
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
The uh don't try to um plan and is it don't try to
plan and execute at the sametime, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
They're two separate processes, they are two separate
processes, and I I personallybelieve that like the the
learning and the executing the Agame, they they are kind of um
somewhat separate, quitedifferent.
So trying to do themsimultaneously is may result in
in neither good thing happening.
There it is, folks.
Stay creative, keep on learning.
Is your will to win and your need to be competitive
holding back your jujitsu?
This is a guilty.
Uh this is a challenging thingbecause it's not that anyone
wants to lose when they aredoing BJJ, but playing your A
game all the time could beholding back your learning.
(00:22):
So we're going to talk aboutthis competitive versus creative
piece and and really see howthis might this might help you
or hinder you, depending on howyou're approaching your jujitsu
right now.
Um now I am an ultra competitiveperson.
I don't like to lose atanything.
(00:43):
And uh this is possibly why I'mI am not happy a lot of the time
because I'm trying to wineverything.
But also I like doing somecreative shit because it's it's
fun.
But I I find it hard to not becompetitive when I'm at jujitsu.
Uh especially, especially if I'mrolling somebody who's really
good and they're putting it onme.
(01:04):
I I can't accept, you know, it'sit's one of those things.
Like I just I there's somethingin me.
I don't know where it's justwhat if it's someone that's not
that good that's putting it onyou?
Yeah, they got lucky.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
No, is that not worse than someone who's really
good putting it on you?
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
A lot of cope going on right here.
Um steroids.
Um no, I I for me, I have alwayswanted to be the best, and so I
find it difficult to not havethat as a default mode.
But I've had my best rolesactually where I wasn't actually
trying to win.
Like the exchange was better.
(01:42):
Have you have you found this Joewhere where you've had a role
which maybe was like verycompetitive, but then maybe not
much happened or it wasn't ohfuck, yeah, all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
I mean, yeah, totally right.
Um, Adam and I have this all thetime where he pulls reverse Dela
Heva and I enter my knee cut.
Yeah.
And just and it's and we and wewe go every time we go there,
and every time we both go, haha,here we are again.
We're gonna be here all day.
And and maybe 30 to 40 percentof the time I cut through.
(02:13):
Uh maybe it's more like half thetime I get through.
Half and half, yeah.
But you know, he'll have acounter thing, but then then
half of the times I get through,I'll, you know, whatever, have
side control or some kind ofdominant position.
But we're just like, why thefuck do we keep doing this every
fucking time?
Yeah, but it's because A gameversus A game.
Yeah, and it's like, and and andwe've spoken about it, and it's
(02:34):
like, well, we actually hardlyget to train together.
So when we train together, it'slike, well, I just want to
fucking go for it.
Yeah, I just want to fuckingthrow down and I want to beat
you.
Give it your best.
Yeah, and and so so you know, anacknowledgement there, right?
If we were trained togetherevery night or four times a
week, and that was happening,you'd be like, guys, this is
ridiculous.
Like, we need to fucking dosomething else.
SPEAKER_01 (02:56):
You could temper it a bit more, maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
Yeah, but but yeah, so yeah, I mean, I'm a
particularly as I've done lessjujitsu in recent years, my
default is to just do what Ialways do.
Sure.
So you end up playing your Agame, right?
Definitely, um, and for sure, ittotally closes you off from the
myriad of other positions andthings you could be learning.
I I think the thing that you'regonna fucking lose, so what are
(03:19):
you gonna do?
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
And and you know, without without going too cliche
on it, it was uh the thing thathighlighted this to me was um so
shout out to my my house brotherand friend and bulletproof
athlete uh Fabinho Coloy, heplays Delaheva on the offside,
like on the right side.
And I don't know why it startedlike that for him, or maybe he
(03:42):
chose it, but I always playedDelaheiva on the left side.
And when he started doing thatto me, I was like As in your
going around to the left, he heso I he likes to go around to
the right.
Yeah, he always hooks with theright side and he bolos to that
side and he he has these sweepsset off that side, and it's it's
kind of like someone who's asouthpaw in boxing, it throws
(04:03):
you off straight away.
You're like, oh hang on, they'replaying their guard to the
opposite side.
I'm not as good at I'm not asgood at cutting to that, I'm not
as good at dealing with that,and so it challenges you.
And then when we were umpracticing positions, he would
say, Oh man, let's do it on thisside.
And it it's I guess it's like ifyou're used to training a skill
or like hitting a hammer withyour right hand, you try and hit
(04:24):
with your left, and you're like,My God, my left is so much
worse.
We all I think we're all awarethat we have a uh a dominant
side, whether it's guard or aknee cut pass or whatever it is,
right?
But he forced me to play on theopposite side.
The interesting thing I foundwith this, and this kind of
throws me back to high schoolwhen I played basketball, my
(04:45):
stronger side actually gotbetter, even though it sounds
strange.
My old basketball coach used tomake us shoot with our
non-dominant hand, and as soonas I would switch back, it it
might it felt so much easier tojust shoot with my dominant
side, and so by going to thatplaying Delahea on the offside
(05:06):
on my non-preferred side, I gotpast more and I was uh not as
good there, but after aboutthree months, I got really good
there, and so I could playeither side, and then it was
just like my jujitsu justexpanded, and it it's kind of
like that the the willingness tosuck or feel foolish or be shit
in the short term that thenunlocks uh bigger gains.
SPEAKER_00 (05:29):
Yeah, it's it's it's a funny comparison you make with
the basketball thing because Iwas just thinking about if you
were doing that, thenpotentially at training, at
basketball training, coacheslike, yeah, just shoot with your
with your with your offhand.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
And say like, okay, no worries, and you're probably
missing most of your shots,right?
Yeah, but it doesn't matter,it's training.
Yes, and then I'm sure if you'replaying games through that
point, Cajus are like, don't doit at the games, at the games
play your good side, right?
Yeah, yeah.
But with jujitsu, training isthe game.
SPEAKER_01 (05:57):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
For most of us, yeah.
Training is the competition, andso you're like this this time
where you're in the lab trainingwhere you really should feel
like you're like, I can'tfucking do that, I've got to
beat everyone.
Yeah, I kind of I can't fuckinglose, you know.
But but this is the irony of it,and this is where you get that
that sort of different paths ofcompetitors versus hobbies,
(06:19):
because competitors are like,no, I actually do competitions,
they have a will of it.
So training is different for me,and you and it's sort of ironic
that a lot of those, like a lotof the really good competitors,
will be working on things andallow themselves to suck in
training so that they canperform better at comp.
Yeah.
Whereas the hobbyists are like,I will not lose training.
This is to the death.
(06:40):
Yeah, and the hobbyists will goaway and be like, yo, I fucking
pass so-and-so's garb.
Yeah, that guy just fucking wonthe Australian like Nogi
championships, and I passed himand choked him, you know, twice
this week.
Yeah.
So by default, I'm obviously Iam the Australian champion.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
I stole his aura.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
Gary Tonan says that, right?
Yeah.
That he, you know, he famouslygets subbed a bunch of times in
training.
SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
Yeah, and and actually Bernardo Faria was very
famous for getting tapped out bylower rank people in training,
and all the senior belts arelike, what's wrong with you?
You just got tapped out by boob.
But but then in comp, he wouldcompete against me, can't yeah,
and find out what it's like.
Then it's it is a differentscenario.
And I think it is it ischallenging for folks who don't
compete regularly because, likeyou say, that is their
(07:26):
competition, that is theexpression of their competitive
spirit.
So fuck, you gotta let them getit, right?
Yeah, and I'm not saying don'tbe competitive.
No, yeah, it's fuck part of thefun.
Get it, you know.
That's that it is.
I love what I love about jujitsuis it is an excuse to express
intensity.
And therefore, you know, the youknow, the great post-Jiu-Jitsu
(07:49):
just you know, you just walkout, yeah, fuck, the world's
okay, you know?
Drive home, you're just likeit's fine.
You know, like you just youknow, you just have this, it's
kind of like being high.
You're just like, it's all good,man.
Like, no stress, you know, likeit's just a it's a it's it's
such an amazing feeling, thepost-Jiu-Jitsu high, because
you've been able to get out allthe stress and all the nerves
(08:11):
and all the everything, as wellas having all the connectedness
and everything else.
The the the thing which I wantedto get to on this is like there
there was actually a study doneshowing that if something was
learnt, uh, a skill, it wasactually a a skill, it was
soccer skills, actually.
Let's speak to you, Joe.
Um, that certain soccer skillsGod's game.
(08:32):
God's game, football.
I've regarded this.
Um, the thing is when the skillswere framed as a game, they were
absorbed four times faster thanjust skills practiced
individually.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
So when uh there was done with kids between the age
of 10 to 14, like pre-pubescentkids, I guess, and so they were
getting them to just practicelike cone drills versus getting
them to try to complete certainmovements before shooting,
right?
Which were which resulted inthem having to dribble more.
But when they came back and theyretested the kids who'd done
(09:10):
cone drills versus the kidswho'd done the games, the kids
who'd done 20 minutes of gamesversus like I think it was like
two or three hours of conedrills, actually performed
better on the cone drills.
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:23):
Pardon me.
And so what they're saying hereis that the the ability to
absorb the lesson or kind oftake in the message or the skill
it was actually their theirbrains were more receptive in
the fun, creative, playfulelement as opposed to the idea
of drilling.
And I know that all my uh CLAGreg Souters, all my guys out
(09:47):
there will be like, constraintsbased games, boy.
What?
Gee, Souders, am I right?
Uh shout out DeAndre.
Um, but yeah, and it was justinteresting because obviously
that's a that's very specificsoccer.
It's but but they were justsaying that the it's the fun and
the creativity of it wasn't toldto them specifically what they
(10:08):
had to do, but through this gamethey were forced to dribble and
move, and that meant that theygot better at the skill because
it was creative and fun.
It wasn't necessarily likedrilled into them, do this a
hundred times and you must kindof thing.
SPEAKER_00 (10:23):
Yeah, right.
They weren't given exactinstructions on how to execute
the thing.
No, it's like get from point Ato point B.
B.
SPEAKER_01 (10:30):
Yeah, and it would but they had to have a certain
amount of touches before they'reallowed to shoot or whatever it
was.
And so this idea of beingcreative, because the thing that
I've always been extremelygrateful for, and you you might
have had this too, Joe, whereyou you're rolling with someone
who's way better than you andthey let you work a bit.
I mean, I find it frustratingnow.
(10:51):
I I find it concentrating.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
Fucking catching in a cheeky armbar, they went and
you just fucking bang, cunt.
You fucking walk out of there,you're like I tap that cunt.
SPEAKER_01 (11:01):
No, I thought it was good.
I don't think that no, not that.
Well, I had it, I well, I had itthe other day uh about a bit
over a month ago.
I had a role with uh NicoMajillic and he um he just he
just he's not like he let mework, but he didn't he didn't
smash me.
Best heavyweight gee guy.
I could not do much to him.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
No gee guy in the country, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
Gee and no gi.
Like he's pretty under he's allaround.
I think he's Australia's mostachieved competitor.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
World champion in the gi, right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
Weight and absolute in at purple and at brown.
Wow.
And and and so not just worlds,I think Pan Americans and he
might have won Euros.
Like he's all of it, all of itin the gi.
And now he is doing more no-gee.
So you're gonna see more of him.
The two elements that you needto guarantee your success in the
gym are guidance andaccountability.
(11:51):
The big mistake that we seepeople making when training for
BJJ is doing random workouts.
That's why we made theBulletproof for BJJ app.
We have our online communitythat can give you feedback and
help you out, and then we alsohave our structured programs
that will get you fitter,stronger, and more flexible for
BJJ.
We got a 14-day free trial.
(12:13):
Get in there, try it out, and ifyou decide that it's not for
you, we have a hundred percentmoney back guarantee.
So go to the Play Store, go tothe app store, download the app,
and we'll see you on the inside.
He was too nice to me.
It was it felt it hurt mebecause it was condescending.
And he was like, nah, man, no, Ididn't have it.
(12:34):
I was like, bullshit, dude.
You could have you could havearmbared me, just do it.
And he's like, No, I didn't, Ididn't have it, you know.
And he's so like he's so laidback and so nice about it.
I was like, damn it, he's somuch better than me.
He doesn't even need to try, youknow.
And that's it's the same thingwith um also a very handsome
man.
Oh, he's a lovely guy, and he itsounds he really sounds like the
complete package.
He's a lovely guy, he's verydown to earth.
(12:54):
You talk to him, you're like,there's no pretense about him.
Wow, fuck shit.
It's gotta be steroids.
No, he's he's the most nattyguy, you could just look at him.
But it it's funny that uh likeLevi, I remember rolling with
Levi a couple years back.
He just dropped in randomly toVantage when it was at the old
gym.
Yeah, and no, he just came in.
(13:15):
Um and I I was taking the lunchclass and and he just jumped in
and we had a roll, and you know,I wasn't trying super hard, but
I was trying to feel what he wasdoing, and very quickly he took
my back.
Yeah, and then I was like,right, he's gonna finish me here
because this is fucking LeviLevi Zanadu.
He's got my back, I'm introuble.
And then he he had me in thebody triangle and then he
(13:36):
switched out and went tosomething else.
And I was like, What are youdoing?
And he's like, No, man, I'm justI'm just working here, you know,
like he was just grooving,vibing and sliding, and I was
like, do it.
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
You're like finish me so that I get a second shot
at taking your head off.
SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
Give me a reason to fight back.
He just did it, you know,because it's just training, and
I think that's the thing whereit's when somebody is being
creative and they're justthey're not probably too focused
on trying to win, better jujitsutranspires.
Yeah, you you you probably wouldhave you know have you had that
(14:13):
experience where you've maybe itwas not something you predicted,
but you just had a really greatrole with somebody, like the
exchange was good.
SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
Yeah, fuck, heaps of times, heaps of times.
Some of the some of the best,some of the best roles I've had
have been under that within thatcontext of like, hey, let's
let's not try and kill eachother tonight.
You know, I think back to someof the guys training more
recently over at at um atBalmain, yeah, um, like Lockie
and and Rod and stuff, whereit's like, yeah, you know, with
(14:42):
Lockie, we had that conversationof like, hey, let's not try,
because we're very competitivewith each other.
And then as soon as we both saidthat, the training was sick.
Yeah.
And you know, shit happens, andyou get these mad opportunities,
and you you find yourself insituations that you didn't find
yourself in before.
Um, another good tip that I gotfrom Coach Paul, actually, Paul
Smeebert, was like, don't he wastalking about he was talking
(15:06):
about a reflection on when um Ithink Declan had come in to
teach a seminar there, and hewas talking about how some of
the boys just like when theycame to roll, they put it on
him, and he's like, Declanfucking smashed them.
But they put it, they put it onhim real hard, um, which he
goes, I just thought it wasuncool, but also they didn't
allow any space to just feel itout a bit, and so he was like,
(15:31):
You can go into the role andplay a bit defensively, but let
him like let them move, likesee, like just keep your guard
retention, like you know, keepyour defense tight, see what
they do, but don't try todominate from the beginning.
And I thought, fuck, that's andI've you know, playing like that
might sometimes after they'rehaving that conversation, it's
like you see opportunities thatyou didn't used to see when
(15:53):
you're just trying to smash,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
You know, yeah, and look, Declan is I mean,
obviously, Declan is a nightmareand is is Yeah, like he's he's
gonna get you eventually, right?
Yeah, yeah, but I mean Iwhatever I trained with, but but
as a I trained with Declan, Ithink like maybe 18 months ago.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
Yeah, and he was so nice to me.
Well, yeah, an elite, an eliteguy like that, similar to Nico
and Levi, right?
They just they don't have toprove anything.
No.
So you know, if you if you ifyou're coming at it with a
slightly more chilled energy,they're probably gonna match it
and it's gonna be great.
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
You know?
SPEAKER_01 (16:23):
Yeah, and and I it probably comes back more to like
a if we think of jujitsu kind oflike a conversation, that if if
someone's just yelling at you,then they can't hear what you
have to say, and that uh whenyou are listening more, then
then there's more of anexchange.
Yeah.
That I hear your point of view,my point of view, it's not even
(16:44):
an argument, it's just anexchange, and that's where the
learning is because you'reactually you're listening, and
that when you're beingcompetitive, you're just
yelling, and it's just a yellingmatch, and that I yell louder,
you yell louder, and then it'sit's that doesn't actually
result in you taking anythingaway from what they did, you
know, and it's it is coolactually, and it can come from a
(17:05):
competitive role when someonedoes something to you and you
don't know what it is, you'relike, What the what was that?
And then after the role, you go,Hey man, what was that thing you
just fucking hit me with?
Oh, it's just this thing where Ido this and do that, and you go,
What the fuck?
And they show it to you, andthen you're like, God damn, like
the the learning is reallythere, yeah.
And and that that is, Idefinitely find that I have in
(17:28):
the past made had reallyterrible roles just by not
allowing jujitsu to happen.
Like, I'm not gonna lose.
Like, it's not even aboutwinning, it's just like I refuse
to lose, so therefore, we'rejust gonna grind out this one
position for five minutes andthen you go nowhere, I go
nowhere, and oh, you didn't tapme.
SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
You know, like that's yeah, it gets a bit yeah,
it's you you get disappointed inyourself, right?
Yeah.
Like playing that way.
Because it's like what jujitsuactually happened.
Yeah, what what did I gain fromthat?
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
Like, you know, let alone not even asking what did
they gain, but like what did wecreate?
But it's like, what did I learnfrom that?
You're like, well, nothing.
I just did what I always do andI didn't lose.
SPEAKER_01 (18:10):
Yeah, and that's I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (18:12):
Maybe you still lost it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:13):
Yeah, maybe that is the losing.
Like the the mentality in and ofitself is is the loss.
And this idea of training versuscompeting, or like, yeah, it
wouldn't matter if you're doingjujitsu or you're lifting
weights, like there's definitelyroom for less intensity.
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
But I but I do think to that point, you know, because
you might be hearing thisdiscussion thinking, yeah, fuck,
I need to back it off a littlebit on the on the hyper
competitive piece and like youknow, allow some more shit to
happen, you can't do it witheveryone.
No, there's certain people outthere that you that you can't
give that sort of freedom to.
SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Um, because you can get unsafe too, like Yeah, like
that's right.
Like if you're rolling withsomeone that's scrappy and
competitive and maybe a bitoblivious to the nature of the
role.
Or maybe they're fucking mean.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Yeah.
They'll take advantage, youknow.
Like if you give people somepeople, as much as you like to
think, oh man, I can trust mytraining partners, there's some
people out there if probably notall of them know that you know
they might they might crank it abit, or if they get get space on
you, then they might slam you,or like, you know, like there's
there's those people, and justfor self-preservation, you've
(19:17):
got to keep a degree of youknow, you've got to match that
the energy is almost like a it'salmost like a form of
self-defense to not be like, oh,I'm just being creative today
and yeah, uh, whatever it mightbe.
Oh stack pass.
But yeah, I think that yeah, Ias someone who is uh hyper
competitive, for sure thelearning being competitive is is
(19:42):
is kind of the doing and theexpression, but it's not it's
not the learning, it's the thethe creativity and the openness
is really where the improvementsoccur.
And it's it's that I I guessthat idea of the difference
between um creating and thenexecuting their I think you've
said it before when we've talkedabout content.
(20:04):
What's that what's that phrase,Joe?
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
The uh don't try to um plan and is it don't try to
plan and execute at the sametime, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
They're two separate processes, they are two separate
processes, and I I personallybelieve that like the the
learning and the executing the Agame, they they are kind of um
somewhat separate, quitedifferent.
So trying to do themsimultaneously is may result in
in neither good thing happening.
There it is, folks.
Stay creative, keep on learning.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.