July 30, 2025 • 19 mins
There's been some discourse about what the best method of training is for jiu jitsu folks. Some front runners of the S&C industry are saying barbell is the best tool for this. We say you might need a more diversified approach and that no one thing can be absolute. Learn more about how you should train here...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
A good martial artist does not become tense but ready
.
Essentially, at this point thefight is over, so you pretty
much flow with the goal.
Who is worthy to be trustedwith the secret to limitless
power?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
The barbell is the best tool for BJJ's strength.
Ooh, is this a controversialstatement or is this just facts?
Many people are in love with abarbell.
They live and die by thebarbell and we need to talk
about whether or not this isvalid for BJJ folks.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Wait, wait.
Are we saying it is Because Idon't agree with?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
that statement.
Oh, my fucking, look at you.
Look at you coming in with adisagreement.
Yeah, not at all, no, okay,well, it's a statement that
people have said.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Oh, I see, and we need to discuss.
Okay, right.
Whoa Joe was about to leapacross the couch and punch me in
the face.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
You might notice that Joe has a little bit of color
above his eye.
That's jujitsu related.
It's not because I gave it tohim, because he's getting out of
line.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Here's what I did.
I taught a class on a mondaymorning, which was, uh, the
monday first monday back afterthe weekend grading.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yes, it was a packed class.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Everyone was like fucking pumped, let's go.
Two new brown belts on the mats, bunch of blue belts striped up
.
Couple new blue belts, I thinkcouple new.
Yeah, everyone was fuckingfrothy as and, uh, one of the
brown belts.
Big shout out to jono just itwas just a guard moment clipped
me in the eye was no big deal,but just one of those ones.
It was innocuous at the time,boom, but then I instantly felt
my eye hanging over.
(01:50):
Yeah, hanging over that's.
It's very, it's veryinteresting when your vision,
when all of a sudden you've gota new thing introduced to your
field of vision, yeah, it's kindof disconcerting.
Oh yeah, it makes me thinkabout some of those ufc fighters
, like they get big split.
Mike Perry yeah, and like skinthat's maybe hanging over the
eye, you're just like fuck,that's got to really throw you
(02:10):
off.
It's a brutal thing, but it's Iknow what it's like guys,
that's what I'm saying.
I know what you know.
Fucking Marvin Eastman, I feelyour pain.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Back to the topic at hand Barbells.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Why do people love a barbell?
Well, barbells, I mean barbellsare the like.
Barbells are like kind of, in away, the the pinnacle kind of
tool of strength andconditioning of strengths.
Yeah, yeah and so, um, I wouldsay, like if you go to the
commercial gym, though, like ifyou go to your commercial gym,
10 years ago, barbells weren'tsuch a thing like they're in
there yeah, but your classiclike fitness first or globo gym,
(02:49):
it didn't have like multiplesquat racks they might have had
one.
That's right, sure, and so yeah,you can see, nowadays most,
most gyms that are half decentwill have at least a few squat
racks.
They'll have multiple barbells,maybe safety bars or a trap bar
Like it's the thing right.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Lifting platform yeah .
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, and it's definitely like um from you know
, but if you're in the world ofstrength conditioning, which is
really at the level of athletes,right, Training sports teams
and athletes and whatnot, thebarbell is synonymous with that
world.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
It is, but I think you can definitely say that the
influence of things outside of.
So if we think about crossfitor we think about now the the
growth in power lifting becauseof popular movements within
fitness, you then see more ofthat like.
In the same way, if you lookedat the gym 20 years ago,
everyone had fit balls.
(03:41):
You know swiss balls everyonehad.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
You don't see any fucking TRX anymore, thank God.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
No, you're seeing yeah, there might be a cheeky
set of Olympic rings in there.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
You see, rings Always Fuck, yeah, yeah, it's great,
yeah, well, they're up therewith barbells, well ooh.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I mean Whoa, hey, saying you're on now, the
Russians did everything to thenth degree.
Whatever it takes, well, let'stalk about it.
So my take on this and this iscoming from people far smarter
than me, and I've kind offiltered it and thought how does
that apply?
I believe a barbell isfantastic for developing maximal
levels of strength, but thatdoesn't mean it is the be all
(04:28):
and end all.
Now, if we look at Olympiclifting, right, olympic lifting
has become so popular in thelast probably 10, 15 years and I
would actually give a lot ofcredit to CrossFit for bringing
Olympic lifting to the massesAbsolutely, because before that
you didn't see dudes doing likesnatches and clean injury like
that was very so you didn't saywomen, yeah, I mean you said
(04:51):
yeah, yeah, that's right, likeit really brought it back into
the the mainstream.
Yeah, and it's become morefashionable now for folks to be
doing that, and that's awesomebecause that is great for speed
and power development and all ofthat.
But what what I'd say is like,with the growth of instagram and
social media, people want toput some fucking glory, fucking
(05:12):
lifts on the internet, like thefact that we have a very easy
platform to share videos,whether it be youtube or
instagram.
People like I want to show mymax.
I want a deadlift, I want tohave a huge bench press.
I want to.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So I think I mean just to sorry to cut, but before
the showing of it.
Yeah, Even the appreciation ofstrength, yes, Wasn't a thing 20
years ago right, it wasn't asno like no, like I know when I,
when I started going to the gymas a fucking 16 year old or
whatever, it was never aboutgetting strong, it's about
getting big jacked yeah, yeah,and so it was always like 8 to
(05:47):
12 reps.
There was like these things thatare now synonymous, in that
most people listening will belike oh, five by five.
Sure you know?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
five three one five three one german volume training
.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
None of that shit was spoken about in general fitness
.
No, there's three sets of eightto 12.
Yeah, get the pump, do the dropset.
Yeah, you know.
And so, so.
So now, yeah, but, but so tothat point that appreciation has
come about and then lay it ontop, is we can now share it as
well?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Definitely and and you know, look, it's fucking
awesome If someone's got areally big deadlift or a great
back squat or you know peoplecan power, clean or snatch or
weight.
That's really good.
But this is what I wanted tosay relevant to that.
If you go into most gyms, thegym is dominated like I'm
talking like a public kind ofglobal gym.
It is dominated by dumbbells andmachines, like if you look at
(06:38):
the floor space, machines isvastly the winner in terms of
floor space, the reason whypeople are getting into machines
is it's not complicated, youknow like you can just sit down
Hard to fuck it up, Pick theweight and do the reps, which is
really good for lowering thebar to entry, lowering the
barrier to entry to lifting.
So if that's what gets you in,that's good.
(07:01):
But this is what I would say.
There are limitations to thebarbell in terms of its
application for BJJ.
Now, Dr Mike Israetel, he mightnot agree with me, that's fine.
Even our friend Charles OwenPrice, he might not agree with
me maybe, but I would say I wantyou to list out every potential
strength coach that might notagree with you.
(07:21):
Disagree Right now.
We can start now.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah, there's this other guy.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I once saw he's got glasses all the time, and in
front of me he says but yeah, solet's go back to the maximal
strength thing.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
The barbell is ergonomically designed so that
you can grip it real easy andyou can lift heavy weights.
Yes, and if we take like adeadlift or a squat or a press
or a bench, um, these are likereally simple.
They're simple movements, yeah,and so the barbell allows you
to load up a fucking shit ton ofweight, yeah, um but there are
limitations to that right thereare.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
And also when you start in the gym, don't get me
wrong.
Understanding how to use abarbell is great, but it's also
there may be some things youneed to do first before you kind
of qualify yourself to just goto the barbell.
You know you may have somepreexisting issues with your
body, whether it be a range ofmotion thing or just
(08:14):
proprioception, understandinghow your body works.
That if you're working withsome dumbbells or working with
some kettlebells, that couldbetter orient you to progress
you to a barbell.
So I think just going straightto the barbell isn't always the
way and that's why it's good tolook at some other things.
Now, why am I a big fan ofkettlebells?
Let's just step to the side fora second.
(08:37):
If you look at the hinge patternwith a kettlebell, it allows
the weight to travel backbetween your legs, which gives
you a pre-stretch in yourhamstrings.
The limitation on a barbell isit stops at your shins.
So, yeah, you can use yourhamstrings in a lot of ways,
even if you go to like amovement like a Jefferson curl
or like a Zurcher position.
What have you?
You go to like a movement likea jefferson curl or like a
(08:58):
zurcher position, what have you?
But because the weight with akettlebell is displaced from
where you're gripping it and itcan travel between your legs, it
has a plyometric effect.
So you get this mad stretcheffect in the hamstrings and
boom, contract lengthening,short, shortening.
And you, you have to do itfucking fast, whether you're
cleaning, swinging or snatching.
The kettlebell is actuallysuperior to the barbell for a
(09:18):
plyometric effect for yourposterior chain.
Fuck with me.
That's a good point, yeah.
And so if we look at, say,olympic lifters and they can
lift the maximal weight abovetheir head in the least amount
of reps kettlebell lifters likethe world champions.
My friend James Ross justcompeted at the world
championship.
(09:39):
Shout out, he got silver.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
You know, like second in the world.
It's amazing His weightcategory.
They lift the most weightoverhead in 10 minutes.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Right, because they do a shitload of repetitions.
A ton of reps with you know,basically 32 kilos in each hand
which is nuts.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, and they just yeah it's fucking.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
They work fucking non-stop for 10 minutes it's
grueling.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So yeah, yeah, which I mean and to that point right
like I think we can all in in,in simple terms, we can see the
benefit of maximum strengthyou're like, fuck yeah, it's
really good to just be likebrutally strong, but like, if
you think about a six or aneight or a 10 minute round in
jujitsu, if you can becontinuously strong lifting
weights for 10 minutes wait,that's totally different to
(10:26):
maximal strength, but it's alsosuper beneficial.
It's very hard to go.
This one's better than that one.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And so there's a uniqueness to being able to
train that capacity.
I think the hardest thing I'mnot doing fucking 10-minute sets
, let's just be clear.
No, but I think the hardestthing.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
That One of the hardest things for most folks
when they're like but what am Imeant to do?
Like, I just want a simpleanswer, right For all of us.
We don't want to fucking getinto the science and the
nerdiness of all the shit You'rejust like, just tell me the
thing to do.
So that way, the barbell islike a really simple answer and
the progression's very it's verylogical.
(11:07):
I can do a bit more weight, Ican do a bit more reps or I can
do a bit more range of motion,potentially right.
The thing about a kettlebellwhich makes it maybe a little
bit less accessible is it ismore technical.
You can fuck it up more, youcan smash yourself a bit more.
Like it is more technical.
Therefore, you're like I don'twant to fuck with that, I just
want to do the thing.
And I think this is why, tothis day, barb, uh, dumbbells
(11:27):
and machines are still sopopular, because it doesn't
require any thinking are youjust on that?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
do you think that the kettlebell is actually more
technical, or is it that?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
yes, the movements we take a hundred percent no, but
hear me out, the listen the.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
The movements we take as fundamental in kettlebells
are different to what we take inbarbell.
As an example, uh like, if youcompare a kettlebell deadlift
and a barbell deadlift, there'sno, great difference.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
No, no, but when we're talking about the, the
swing, but this is what I'mtalking about, right, you're.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
So if you compare a swing, then with a barbell clean
or a snatch, yeah, but it's notthe same, like there's no
movement, that mimics the swing.
No, no, no.
But I think that a lot of thosefoundational kettlebell
movements are more technicallifts.
They are, but if you just dogoblet squats, single arm
presses, deadlift, it's simpleshit.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
It's not highly technical no, but in terms of
the grip and the position withthe kettlebell it is more
technical, like it just requiresmore understanding.
It's not that like oh, you'regoing to be some genius to do
them.
Once you learn them, it's fine.
But that's the problem.
Most folks are out there justtrying to do their thing and
they're they're getting inawkward positions.
They're like oh, this suckswith a dumbbell.
If you don't grip the dumbbelland just hold it, it's going to
(12:36):
fucking roll out your head.
It's not going to.
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(13:19):
Kettlebell a little bitdifferent, yeah, and so I think
the simplicity of the barbelland the simplicity of other
tools like a dumbbell, yeah.
But then I want to stepsideways here and I want to go.
You know what the?
The progression in my mind intrying to work out what is the
best tool for the job morerecently for me has been, uh,
the sandbag.
(13:39):
Why do say this?
Because it's so simple.
It's even more simple than abarbell.
As much as you can tellsomebody, hey, I suggest you
pick it up in this way and thatway.
It's raw strength, it is therawest strength, because also, a
sandbag doesn't just stay in auniform position, it slops
(14:01):
around on you, it moves.
And, mate, I nearly herniatedevery disc in my back last night
because I had a.
It was a 140-kilo sandbag, butit was only filled to 120.
So it was loose Extra sloppy.
Oh, so much harder, so muchfucking harder.
Like in mid-lift it shiftedforward and I was like it's kind
(14:21):
of like if you're grappling ahuman, you go lift.
It shifted forward and I waslike it's kind of like if you're
grappling a human, you you goto like try and put someone down
and they move and you're like,oh fuck, it's so hard to deal
with.
So I was surprised.
It actually really blew my mindthat how simple but also how
hard training with a sandbag wasand what that did for my
strength.
Yeah, like it.
Just, I was so surprisedbecause I used to think, nah,
(14:43):
barbell, barbells, kettlebellslike this is the way I started
fucking with sandbags.
And I was like, no, I'vechanged my mind.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Look, I think any tool, like any of the tools, are
effective, right.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yes, they can be.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I think that the problem that most people face
and I'm looking at like the lessexperienced training
individuals is that they go allin on one yeah.
And so it's like, oh, I'm abarbell guy, oh, I'm a
kettlebell guy, yeah, and we canmake some assumptions there.
But you know, if you're all inon the barbell and, let's say,
powerlifting is your thing,you're great in those positions.
(15:16):
But as soon as you're takenonto one leg or you're taken
into a split stance position,you're not particularly stable,
right.
But then, similarly, I knowsome absolute kettlebell
advocates who just fuck aroundand never actually get strong.
That's right.
They never put on any massbecause they're always fucking
around with new shit, kettlebellflows and whatnot.
And if we look at the two camps, this is kind of where they
(15:37):
throw shit at one another.
Sure, the sweet spot, as we seeit, is the mix of both yeah,
and the best folks do do both.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Like even the Olympic lifters, like, even if you look
at the top level, like LuXiaojun, li Huohua, who's like
their heavyweight lifter fromChina, olympic lifter.
When you see them do theiraccessories, they're doing all
kinds of funky shit.
They're doing like side bendson the GHD.
They're doing like fuckingsloppy superpower reps on heavy
(16:06):
rows.
Like they're doing stuff whereyou're like, oh, that looks
people like, oh, that's sobro-ish.
It's like, no, they're allabout force development.
So do whatever it takes toproduce maximum force.
They actually don't give a shitwhat it looks like.
So when they're under thebarbell, they've earned the
right to do some sloppy reps.
Yeah, and the interesting thingis like the strictest form reps,
(16:26):
which is what I was told rightwhen I was 18.
And in the gym these olderbodybuilders like super juiced
up, coming over and be like, hey, young blood, let me fucking
tell you Like, don't swing, dothis like strict form, maximum
control.
Like that's all applicable totime under tension and building
muscle, but that doesn't meanthat's the best thing for
producing force or strengthnecessarily and I think this is
(16:49):
where you know I'm good goodadvice to your 18 year old self
for sure, right.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
But then there's a point that comes.
Okay, you can let the cat outof the bag a bit and fucking rip
in son oh, but here's the, thechallenge I feel with all of
this.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Whatever you, however you identify, joe, do you
identify as a barbell guy?
Are you a kettlebell guy?
You're an everything guy,you're a movement guy.
I'm jungle brothers.
To the core, bro, I'meverything yeah, he's, he's a
man of the jungle, he's fuckingtarzan.
Um, I think, ultimately, thehardest thing is knowing the
right tool for the job, also atthe right time, like this is.
(17:23):
This is where having a trainerand having a bit of outside
outside program having a coach.
Yeah, it helps you, because youmight start down a path and then
you're like, fuck, this doesn't.
It's not necessarily giving youwhat you wanted or it's not
meeting your goals, and so weshouldn't be too attached to one
tool.
We should have an open mindedapproach.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, I think an easy , an easy way for folks to frame
it in their mind is like do onething.
If like go in on that thing andget real good at it for six to
12 months and then do somethingelse, yeah, so say, you spend
the next year like I'm going togo super hard on um, I don't
know powerlifting, squat, benchdead, that's my whole shit.
Do it for a year, get strong atit, you know, join that gym, go
(18:11):
in that world and then fuck offand go and fucking take up
kettlebell class or just dosplit squats and single arm
presses and get ups for six to12 months and bounce back and
this way you kind of round outyour strength development, don't
you?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, and I think the thing that has been missing for
the best part with a lot ofwhat we see in fitness is proper
periodization.
You know the reason why theRussians were so good and the
Bulgarians and any major nationthat has achieved a lot at a
highest level.
They will be working theirathletes through these various
(18:42):
levels of tension and lifting.
So some time of the yearthey're going really heavy and
some time of the year they'regoing lighter and they would do
gymnastics training.
They do body weight training aswell as barbell training.
It's just people didn't seethat shit so they didn't
actually understand howwell-rounded those athletes were
and we definitely encouragefolks to be well-rounded.
(19:03):
Got to be well-rounded.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Got to be well-rounded there it is folks
Got to get after it.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah.
Now, if you want to getwell-rounded, check out our app.
It's got all the bits andpieces you need to stay on track
, get fit and be well-rounded.
Take our 14-day free trial.
Just check out Bulletproof forBJJ in the App Store or the Play
Store.
You
A good martial artist does not become tense but ready
.
Essentially, at this point thefight is over, so you pretty
much flow with the goal.
Who is worthy to be trustedwith the secret to limitless
power?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
The barbell is the best tool for BJJ's strength.
Ooh, is this a controversialstatement or is this just facts?
Many people are in love with abarbell.
They live and die by thebarbell and we need to talk
about whether or not this isvalid for BJJ folks.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Wait, wait.
Are we saying it is Because Idon't agree with?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
that statement.
Oh, my fucking, look at you.
Look at you coming in with adisagreement.
Yeah, not at all, no, okay,well, it's a statement that
people have said.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Oh, I see, and we need to discuss.
Okay, right.
Whoa Joe was about to leapacross the couch and punch me in
the face.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
You might notice that Joe has a little bit of color
above his eye.
That's jujitsu related.
It's not because I gave it tohim, because he's getting out of
line.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Here's what I did.
I taught a class on a mondaymorning, which was, uh, the
monday first monday back afterthe weekend grading.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yes, it was a packed class.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Everyone was like fucking pumped, let's go.
Two new brown belts on the mats, bunch of blue belts striped up
.
Couple new blue belts, I thinkcouple new.
Yeah, everyone was fuckingfrothy as and, uh, one of the
brown belts.
Big shout out to jono just itwas just a guard moment clipped
me in the eye was no big deal,but just one of those ones.
It was innocuous at the time,boom, but then I instantly felt
my eye hanging over.
(01:50):
Yeah, hanging over that's.
It's very, it's veryinteresting when your vision,
when all of a sudden you've gota new thing introduced to your
field of vision, yeah, it's kindof disconcerting.
Oh yeah, it makes me thinkabout some of those ufc fighters
, like they get big split.
Mike Perry yeah, and like skinthat's maybe hanging over the
eye, you're just like fuck,that's got to really throw you
(02:10):
off.
It's a brutal thing, but it's Iknow what it's like guys,
that's what I'm saying.
I know what you know.
Fucking Marvin Eastman, I feelyour pain.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Back to the topic at hand Barbells.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Why do people love a barbell?
Well, barbells, I mean barbellsare the like.
Barbells are like kind of, in away, the the pinnacle kind of
tool of strength andconditioning of strengths.
Yeah, yeah and so, um, I wouldsay, like if you go to the
commercial gym, though, like ifyou go to your commercial gym,
10 years ago, barbells weren'tsuch a thing like they're in
there yeah, but your classiclike fitness first or globo gym,
(02:49):
it didn't have like multiplesquat racks they might have had
one.
That's right, sure, and so yeah,you can see, nowadays most,
most gyms that are half decentwill have at least a few squat
racks.
They'll have multiple barbells,maybe safety bars or a trap bar
Like it's the thing right.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Lifting platform yeah .
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, and it's definitely like um from you know
, but if you're in the world ofstrength conditioning, which is
really at the level of athletes,right, Training sports teams
and athletes and whatnot, thebarbell is synonymous with that
world.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
It is, but I think you can definitely say that the
influence of things outside of.
So if we think about crossfitor we think about now the the
growth in power lifting becauseof popular movements within
fitness, you then see more ofthat like.
In the same way, if you lookedat the gym 20 years ago,
everyone had fit balls.
(03:41):
You know swiss balls everyonehad.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
You don't see any fucking TRX anymore, thank God.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
No, you're seeing yeah, there might be a cheeky
set of Olympic rings in there.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
You see, rings Always Fuck, yeah, yeah, it's great,
yeah, well, they're up therewith barbells, well ooh.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I mean Whoa, hey, saying you're on now, the
Russians did everything to thenth degree.
Whatever it takes, well, let'stalk about it.
So my take on this and this iscoming from people far smarter
than me, and I've kind offiltered it and thought how does
that apply?
I believe a barbell isfantastic for developing maximal
levels of strength, but thatdoesn't mean it is the be all
(04:28):
and end all.
Now, if we look at Olympiclifting, right, olympic lifting
has become so popular in thelast probably 10, 15 years and I
would actually give a lot ofcredit to CrossFit for bringing
Olympic lifting to the massesAbsolutely, because before that
you didn't see dudes doing likesnatches and clean injury like
that was very so you didn't saywomen, yeah, I mean you said
(04:51):
yeah, yeah, that's right, likeit really brought it back into
the the mainstream.
Yeah, and it's become morefashionable now for folks to be
doing that, and that's awesomebecause that is great for speed
and power development and all ofthat.
But what what I'd say is like,with the growth of instagram and
social media, people want toput some fucking glory, fucking
(05:12):
lifts on the internet, like thefact that we have a very easy
platform to share videos,whether it be youtube or
instagram.
People like I want to show mymax.
I want a deadlift, I want tohave a huge bench press.
I want to.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So I think I mean just to sorry to cut, but before
the showing of it.
Yeah, Even the appreciation ofstrength, yes, Wasn't a thing 20
years ago right, it wasn't asno like no, like I know when I,
when I started going to the gymas a fucking 16 year old or
whatever, it was never aboutgetting strong, it's about
getting big jacked yeah, yeah,and so it was always like 8 to
(05:47):
12 reps.
There was like these things thatare now synonymous, in that
most people listening will belike oh, five by five.
Sure you know?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
five three one five three one german volume training
.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
None of that shit was spoken about in general fitness
.
No, there's three sets of eightto 12.
Yeah, get the pump, do the dropset.
Yeah, you know.
And so, so.
So now, yeah, but, but so tothat point that appreciation has
come about and then lay it ontop, is we can now share it as
well?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Definitely and and you know, look, it's fucking
awesome If someone's got areally big deadlift or a great
back squat or you know peoplecan power, clean or snatch or
weight.
That's really good.
But this is what I wanted tosay relevant to that.
If you go into most gyms, thegym is dominated like I'm
talking like a public kind ofglobal gym.
It is dominated by dumbbells andmachines, like if you look at
(06:38):
the floor space, machines isvastly the winner in terms of
floor space, the reason whypeople are getting into machines
is it's not complicated, youknow like you can just sit down
Hard to fuck it up, Pick theweight and do the reps, which is
really good for lowering thebar to entry, lowering the
barrier to entry to lifting.
So if that's what gets you in,that's good.
(07:01):
But this is what I would say.
There are limitations to thebarbell in terms of its
application for BJJ.
Now, Dr Mike Israetel, he mightnot agree with me, that's fine.
Even our friend Charles OwenPrice, he might not agree with
me maybe, but I would say I wantyou to list out every potential
strength coach that might notagree with you.
(07:21):
Disagree Right now.
We can start now.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah, there's this other guy.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I once saw he's got glasses all the time, and in
front of me he says but yeah, solet's go back to the maximal
strength thing.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
The barbell is ergonomically designed so that
you can grip it real easy andyou can lift heavy weights.
Yes, and if we take like adeadlift or a squat or a press
or a bench, um, these are likereally simple.
They're simple movements, yeah,and so the barbell allows you
to load up a fucking shit ton ofweight, yeah, um but there are
limitations to that right thereare.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
And also when you start in the gym, don't get me
wrong.
Understanding how to use abarbell is great, but it's also
there may be some things youneed to do first before you kind
of qualify yourself to just goto the barbell.
You know you may have somepreexisting issues with your
body, whether it be a range ofmotion thing or just
(08:14):
proprioception, understandinghow your body works.
That if you're working withsome dumbbells or working with
some kettlebells, that couldbetter orient you to progress
you to a barbell.
So I think just going straightto the barbell isn't always the
way and that's why it's good tolook at some other things.
Now, why am I a big fan ofkettlebells?
Let's just step to the side fora second.
(08:37):
If you look at the hinge patternwith a kettlebell, it allows
the weight to travel backbetween your legs, which gives
you a pre-stretch in yourhamstrings.
The limitation on a barbell isit stops at your shins.
So, yeah, you can use yourhamstrings in a lot of ways,
even if you go to like amovement like a Jefferson curl
or like a Zurcher position.
What have you?
You go to like a movement likea jefferson curl or like a
(08:58):
zurcher position, what have you?
But because the weight with akettlebell is displaced from
where you're gripping it and itcan travel between your legs, it
has a plyometric effect.
So you get this mad stretcheffect in the hamstrings and
boom, contract lengthening,short, shortening.
And you, you have to do itfucking fast, whether you're
cleaning, swinging or snatching.
The kettlebell is actuallysuperior to the barbell for a
(09:18):
plyometric effect for yourposterior chain.
Fuck with me.
That's a good point, yeah.
And so if we look at, say,olympic lifters and they can
lift the maximal weight abovetheir head in the least amount
of reps kettlebell lifters likethe world champions.
My friend James Ross justcompeted at the world
championship.
(09:39):
Shout out, he got silver.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
You know, like second in the world.
It's amazing His weightcategory.
They lift the most weightoverhead in 10 minutes.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Right, because they do a shitload of repetitions.
A ton of reps with you know,basically 32 kilos in each hand
which is nuts.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, and they just yeah it's fucking.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
They work fucking non-stop for 10 minutes it's
grueling.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So yeah, yeah, which I mean and to that point right
like I think we can all in in,in simple terms, we can see the
benefit of maximum strengthyou're like, fuck yeah, it's
really good to just be likebrutally strong, but like, if
you think about a six or aneight or a 10 minute round in
jujitsu, if you can becontinuously strong lifting
weights for 10 minutes wait,that's totally different to
(10:26):
maximal strength, but it's alsosuper beneficial.
It's very hard to go.
This one's better than that one.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And so there's a uniqueness to being able to
train that capacity.
I think the hardest thing I'mnot doing fucking 10-minute sets
, let's just be clear.
No, but I think the hardestthing.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
That One of the hardest things for most folks
when they're like but what am Imeant to do?
Like, I just want a simpleanswer, right For all of us.
We don't want to fucking getinto the science and the
nerdiness of all the shit You'rejust like, just tell me the
thing to do.
So that way, the barbell islike a really simple answer and
the progression's very it's verylogical.
(11:07):
I can do a bit more weight, Ican do a bit more reps or I can
do a bit more range of motion,potentially right.
The thing about a kettlebellwhich makes it maybe a little
bit less accessible is it ismore technical.
You can fuck it up more, youcan smash yourself a bit more.
Like it is more technical.
Therefore, you're like I don'twant to fuck with that, I just
want to do the thing.
And I think this is why, tothis day, barb, uh, dumbbells
(11:27):
and machines are still sopopular, because it doesn't
require any thinking are youjust on that?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
do you think that the kettlebell is actually more
technical, or is it that?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
yes, the movements we take a hundred percent no, but
hear me out, the listen the.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
The movements we take as fundamental in kettlebells
are different to what we take inbarbell.
As an example, uh like, if youcompare a kettlebell deadlift
and a barbell deadlift, there'sno, great difference.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
No, no, but when we're talking about the, the
swing, but this is what I'mtalking about, right, you're.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
So if you compare a swing, then with a barbell clean
or a snatch, yeah, but it's notthe same, like there's no
movement, that mimics the swing.
No, no, no.
But I think that a lot of thosefoundational kettlebell
movements are more technicallifts.
They are, but if you just dogoblet squats, single arm
presses, deadlift, it's simpleshit.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
It's not highly technical no, but in terms of
the grip and the position withthe kettlebell it is more
technical, like it just requiresmore understanding.
It's not that like oh, you'regoing to be some genius to do
them.
Once you learn them, it's fine.
But that's the problem.
Most folks are out there justtrying to do their thing and
they're they're getting inawkward positions.
They're like oh, this suckswith a dumbbell.
If you don't grip the dumbbelland just hold it, it's going to
(12:36):
fucking roll out your head.
It's not going to.
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(12:58):
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(13:19):
Kettlebell a little bitdifferent, yeah, and so I think
the simplicity of the barbelland the simplicity of other
tools like a dumbbell, yeah.
But then I want to stepsideways here and I want to go.
You know what the?
The progression in my mind intrying to work out what is the
best tool for the job morerecently for me has been, uh,
the sandbag.
(13:39):
Why do say this?
Because it's so simple.
It's even more simple than abarbell.
As much as you can tellsomebody, hey, I suggest you
pick it up in this way and thatway.
It's raw strength, it is therawest strength, because also, a
sandbag doesn't just stay in auniform position, it slops
(14:01):
around on you, it moves.
And, mate, I nearly herniatedevery disc in my back last night
because I had a.
It was a 140-kilo sandbag, butit was only filled to 120.
So it was loose Extra sloppy.
Oh, so much harder, so muchfucking harder.
Like in mid-lift it shiftedforward and I was like it's kind
(14:21):
of like if you're grappling ahuman, you go lift.
It shifted forward and I waslike it's kind of like if you're
grappling a human, you you goto like try and put someone down
and they move and you're like,oh fuck, it's so hard to deal
with.
So I was surprised.
It actually really blew my mindthat how simple but also how
hard training with a sandbag wasand what that did for my
strength.
Yeah, like it.
Just, I was so surprisedbecause I used to think, nah,
(14:43):
barbell, barbells, kettlebellslike this is the way I started
fucking with sandbags.
And I was like, no, I'vechanged my mind.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Look, I think any tool, like any of the tools, are
effective, right.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yes, they can be.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I think that the problem that most people face
and I'm looking at like the lessexperienced training
individuals is that they go allin on one yeah.
And so it's like, oh, I'm abarbell guy, oh, I'm a
kettlebell guy, yeah, and we canmake some assumptions there.
But you know, if you're all inon the barbell and, let's say,
powerlifting is your thing,you're great in those positions.
(15:16):
But as soon as you're takenonto one leg or you're taken
into a split stance position,you're not particularly stable,
right.
But then, similarly, I knowsome absolute kettlebell
advocates who just fuck aroundand never actually get strong.
That's right.
They never put on any massbecause they're always fucking
around with new shit, kettlebellflows and whatnot.
And if we look at the two camps, this is kind of where they
(15:37):
throw shit at one another.
Sure, the sweet spot, as we seeit, is the mix of both yeah,
and the best folks do do both.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Like even the Olympic lifters, like, even if you look
at the top level, like LuXiaojun, li Huohua, who's like
their heavyweight lifter fromChina, olympic lifter.
When you see them do theiraccessories, they're doing all
kinds of funky shit.
They're doing like side bendson the GHD.
They're doing like fuckingsloppy superpower reps on heavy
(16:06):
rows.
Like they're doing stuff whereyou're like, oh, that looks
people like, oh, that's sobro-ish.
It's like, no, they're allabout force development.
So do whatever it takes toproduce maximum force.
They actually don't give a shitwhat it looks like.
So when they're under thebarbell, they've earned the
right to do some sloppy reps.
Yeah, and the interesting thingis like the strictest form reps,
(16:26):
which is what I was told rightwhen I was 18.
And in the gym these olderbodybuilders like super juiced
up, coming over and be like, hey, young blood, let me fucking
tell you Like, don't swing, dothis like strict form, maximum
control.
Like that's all applicable totime under tension and building
muscle, but that doesn't meanthat's the best thing for
producing force or strengthnecessarily and I think this is
(16:49):
where you know I'm good goodadvice to your 18 year old self
for sure, right.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
But then there's a point that comes.
Okay, you can let the cat outof the bag a bit and fucking rip
in son oh, but here's the, thechallenge I feel with all of
this.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Whatever you, however you identify, joe, do you
identify as a barbell guy?
Are you a kettlebell guy?
You're an everything guy,you're a movement guy.
I'm jungle brothers.
To the core, bro, I'meverything yeah, he's, he's a
man of the jungle, he's fuckingtarzan.
Um, I think, ultimately, thehardest thing is knowing the
right tool for the job, also atthe right time, like this is.
(17:23):
This is where having a trainerand having a bit of outside
outside program having a coach.
Yeah, it helps you, because youmight start down a path and then
you're like, fuck, this doesn't.
It's not necessarily giving youwhat you wanted or it's not
meeting your goals, and so weshouldn't be too attached to one
tool.
We should have an open mindedapproach.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, I think an easy , an easy way for folks to frame
it in their mind is like do onething.
If like go in on that thing andget real good at it for six to
12 months and then do somethingelse, yeah, so say, you spend
the next year like I'm going togo super hard on um, I don't
know powerlifting, squat, benchdead, that's my whole shit.
Do it for a year, get strong atit, you know, join that gym, go
(18:11):
in that world and then fuck offand go and fucking take up
kettlebell class or just dosplit squats and single arm
presses and get ups for six to12 months and bounce back and
this way you kind of round outyour strength development, don't
you?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, and I think the thing that has been missing for
the best part with a lot ofwhat we see in fitness is proper
periodization.
You know the reason why theRussians were so good and the
Bulgarians and any major nationthat has achieved a lot at a
highest level.
They will be working theirathletes through these various
(18:42):
levels of tension and lifting.
So some time of the yearthey're going really heavy and
some time of the year they'regoing lighter and they would do
gymnastics training.
They do body weight training aswell as barbell training.
It's just people didn't seethat shit so they didn't
actually understand howwell-rounded those athletes were
and we definitely encouragefolks to be well-rounded.
(19:03):
Got to be well-rounded.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Got to be well-rounded there it is folks
Got to get after it.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah.
Now, if you want to getwell-rounded, check out our app.
It's got all the bits andpieces you need to stay on track
, get fit and be well-rounded.
Take our 14-day free trial.
Just check out Bulletproof forBJJ in the App Store or the Play
Store.
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