April 10, 2024 • 58 mins
When the melodies we cherish become the very thing for which we're ridiculed, the journey of a musician can be a battlefield of the soul. Shawn Mendes' story of triumph over those who once mocked him serves as the backdrop to our heart-to-heart with the remarkable Lenny J, who sheds light on his own musical voyage, the strength found in unity within the music realm, and the dark shadow cast by online trolls. Drawing from his work with luminaries like Nick Jonas and Mendes himself, Lenny J imparts wisdom on nurturing a culture of support and deflecting the harsh glare of internet negativity through the healing power of music.
Navigating the jagged path from conformity to individuality isn't for the faint of heart. This episode peels back the layers of childhood pressures, the courage required to embrace your uniqueness, and the treacherous consequences of a herd mentality. From the unnerving role mainstream media plays in upholding a bullying culture to the bittersweet exposure of talent shows, our discussion takes a turn towards the authenticity needed in artistic endeavors, daring to bare the soul without the armor of societal acceptance.
In the grand dance of ambition and self-care, it's the persistent heart that beats the loudest. As we unwrap tales of personal responsibility, the unyielding pursuit of musical aspirations, and the quest for a harmonious life rhythm, the melody of our conversation resonates with anyone who's ever grappled with the tightrope walk of chasing dreams. The crescendo builds as we speak to the transformational power of overcoming adversity, a reminder that the echoes of our struggles can become the anthems of our triumphs, inspiring a chorus of voices to rise in solidarity.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
One out of every five students report being bullied.
13% were made fun of, callednames or insulted.
They were pushed, shoved,tripped or spit on.
One in five tweens have beencyberbullied.
It's a problem and it has tostop.
Welcome to Bully.
This a hero's journey.
There's light at the end of thetunnel.
(00:24):
Our passion is to show kidsthat there is life after
bullying.
You'll hear from former bulliesand bullying victims and you'll
hear how they made theirjourney from troubled youth to
successful adults.
Welcome to Bully.
This A Hero's Journey.
Now your hosts TylerCopenhaver-Heath and Clifford
(00:45):
Starks.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Bully, this
episode 10, or season 2, episode2.
I'm Tyler, I'm Clifford andCliff.
It's time for another one,right.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
One out of ten, not so bad.
So give me, give me it, andlet's see what I do.
Well, here's the thing too.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Like I uh talk to the guys about setting us up on the
opposite side of the table,because I think every time you
cheat there is no way that oneright.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, on my own.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
There's no way you could possibly cheat this time.
So let's talk about a singer.
And he opened up about teasingthat he experienced in ninth
grade.
He actually published a YouTubevideo and a group of older boys
found out at school that thisvideo was online and they
started teasing him and sayingsing for me, sing for me.
(01:41):
And he said he posted aboutthis.
He said that made me feelabsolutely horrible, made me
feel sing for me.
And he said he posted aboutthis.
He said that made me feelabsolutely horrible, made me
feel like a joke, like what Iwas doing was stupid or wrong.
He recalled.
He also said it's not a joke tome, to me to make somebody feel
bad about what they're doingwhen they're doing what they
love.
Every single person to deservesto do what makes them feel
(02:04):
alive.
So this was in reflection afterhe was already famous.
You got any guesses?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Justin Timberlake.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
No, that's a good guess, shawn Mendes.
Oh yeah, so he basically.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
One out of 12.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And since the beginning I've said I want to
have an episode on a musician,because I think artists actually
suffer the most from some ofthis stuff, because what makes
them amazing in their talents isconsidered maybe odd to some
people or they get made fun offor it.
I see, especially withmusicians and stuff, it seems A
lot of the people that we'veactually talked about
celebrity-wise were musiciansthat were teased.
(02:42):
Right, it's very true.
I mean it happens with athletesand stuff too, you know.
But and like computer peopleand things like that.
But I noticed like the artistsespecially like what's making
them unique and what willeventually be their greatness,
they get picked on for it.
So really happy to have amusician on the show today.
Um, our next guest.
He's a fan of the show.
We've been interacting greatguy.
Um, he's an up-and-comingmusician.
(03:02):
Recently noticed in a post hewas talking about having over a
million streams on his latestsong.
So it's a good thing we have himon now before he doesn't want
anything to do with us anymore.
He's worked with Nick Jonas,megan Trainor and oddly Shawn
Mendes so I didn't even planthat to name just a few.
He's not only a performer, buthe's also a gifted writer,
(03:25):
producer, mixer and he mastersall his own tracks.
And, by the way, a lot of hismusic is based on trying to help
other people.
In addition, he works withothers in their music.
He's worked with Craig Mabbittfrom Escape the Fate, danny
Worship from as alexandra jasonpage, who's the original singer
(03:45):
of the pokemon theme song prettycool, um.
And many others.
Super excited to have on lennyj today with us thank you so
much.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Thanks for having me yeah, thanks for making.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
It's so crazy the way like I set the intro up, you
know, with some questions andstuff, like I always do, and
then Shawn Mendes, I didn't evenput that together, you know.
So it just so happened thatthat it's kind of fate today.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Yeah, yeah, you never know with who's going to pop
off, cause I remember I, when Ifirst was really pursuing music
professionally or for like fulltime, as you would say, I played
the show and sean mendez was onthe bill and he didn't have any
(04:30):
of his really big hits yet.
It was back when, if you know,the song stitches at all.
But oh yeah, he was sittingthere on the steps, we were
backstage and I'm like how areyou doing like?
You know you're on next,because we were just on what I
was doing, so he was even onafter us and he was like, yeah,
I'm going to play a new song.
And he played Stitches and Iwas like, oh, this is a good
(04:52):
song and, like here, we are now.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
you know, you never know who's going to pop off, but
yeah, no, Did you know thatabout him too, that he took some
flack for his music early on?
Speaker 5 (05:06):
I didn him too that he took some plaque for his
music early on.
I didn't know exactly that, butI didn't know.
I've met the person that taughthim guitar and produces and
writes with him all the time mya close friend of mine who I
write with a lot.
His close friend is that personthat pretty much like guided
sean forward, which is cool towitness things like that and
people helping each other asopposed to you know, bring them
(05:27):
down.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Totally, and you and I have discussions a little bit
offline or online rather, about,you know, like trying to go
through some of the struggles ittakes to, you know, help people
.
You know it's like you havesome flack that you get online.
I do, cliff does, you know,everybody gets some flack online
, you know, but it's like thegreater purpose, right, and
that's what something that spoketo me with Sean's you know
(05:50):
message that he put out there islike, look, he was picked,
picked on for this growing upand now it's become such an
asset and a tool to now make adifference for other people,
right.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Yep, and with music, the bullying kind of gets worse
the further you go and thelonger you do this for.
So, even before I go back tothe beginning, I feel like the
bullying and everything is atits worst right now for me,
(06:20):
believe it or not, as I get morestreams, more streams, get more
followers, the more eyes on you, the more things people have to
say, and it almost doesn't makesense, because, wow, I'm
growing so much, people arereceiving my music so much, they
must hate me.
It doesn't make sense, though,because you're growing, so do
they act?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
they're probably like I don't like you, and they get
you out, and then they put on uh, your song, yeah because they
had to hear it or see, get youout, and then they put on your
song yeah, because they had tohear it or see you, and so
that's within their algorithmtoo.
Their social media sources areno dummies.
Cliff and I were on an episodethese really great ladies from
(07:00):
England, strong T yeah and theywere asking about bullies online
, and we're talking about it,and I do think there's two
places that cowards dwell thesedays and it's behind the wheel
of their car and online, andespecially you and I were
talking before the episode.
It's like oh, it's always theperson online that has no
profile, no picture.
You know, all they want to dois post some hate, you know, and
(07:22):
then we have no idea who theyare.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
So yeah, a few months ago, on one of my songs I
posted myself, I was a view ofManhattan behind me and I was
just singing my song.
I pretty much just try to singmy chorus of songs wherever I
can at any given moment, becausethat's just content to post.
You know, content isn't just aflyer anymore or a billboard of
(07:46):
what you did as an accolade.
It's actually like a net in theocean.
So each time you post thatchorus it could reach a hundred
thousand new people.
So, yes, I'm going to post mycourse a hundred times and if
you don't like that, that's fine.
What's going to happen isyou're going to enjoy the song
and we're going to have a greattime at the concerts.
That's the point of all of it.
But anyway, I was posting thevideo of me singing my chorus.
(08:10):
Someone wrote I hate you.
I really hope you kill yourselfeventually, and I was like
thank you.
Another comment was and thetext on it said one day I'm
going to play Madison SquareGarden.
This is where I'm from, newYork City.
That's the dream.
(08:30):
I've seen people go from theirrooms to the garden.
I've witnessed it.
It's possible.
I'm growing, I've toured, I'vedone things most musicians never
do and I'm so grateful so it ispossible.
So I will do those things.
I've played shows like that andfor people to comment that is
(08:54):
so extreme and they do hidebehind the keyboard because it's
a private profile with nopicture but it even stems back
to just people hiding and alsosometimes they don't even hide,
if you want another bully story.
I was walking with my girlfriend.
We're just walking in the parkin Jersey.
(09:15):
This was a couple of months ago.
These kids like 10 to 12 yearsold they had to be middle school
are walking up to us, cursingus out, going.
You effing emo losers, losers.
Look at you.
Are you goth?
You?
Both of you are losers.
I'm like I'm a grown man andshe's a grown woman and you're a
(09:41):
child.
Like cursing me out to my face.
I was like if this was the 90s,it would go to that violence
route with people, becausethings are crazy back then.
But like now, it's like withall the acceptance we need,
there were kids making fun of meand also my girlfriend to our
(10:02):
faces.
I didn't know what to do.
I looked at her and I was likewhat do we do here?
These are children.
I can't like attack them oryell at them or scream at them.
All I need to do is then fillme and put me on their tiktok
and then my career is over.
But it's really insane how Iwill post things to online.
(10:24):
Speaking of keyboard warriors, Irecently did a quick Taylor
Swift cover on my Tik TOK.
Right, I love Taylor Swift.
She was picked on off and she'spicked on even now and has to
rerecord her whole catalog.
So it's a scary industry.
Her fans are often picked on alot of them but her fan base and
(10:44):
I bet you they might evenattack me for this and I hope
you don't edit it incorrectlybut their fan base attacks me If
I cover her, even if it soundsgreat or not.
It doesn't matter.
You're covering their savior.
You're not allowed and theyberated me.
I'm talking about taggingpeople saying we need this taken
(11:08):
down.
Can you do me a favor?
Never sing again.
You're horrible.
You're a loser.
I never want to listen toTaylor Swift again because of
you.
You're not allowed to listen toTaylor Swift.
Stop it.
I hate you.
Like it got thousands of viewsand comments of just hating on
me because other people did itand they run with it, but it's
(11:31):
only those fans doing it and itand it's really weird because
even another musician I knowgoes throw back to 2015, when
you were allowed to cover TaylorSwift before getting attacked.
So even they see it and Iclicked most of the profiles
that are doing it.
It's young boys, girls, they,them, whatever community you
(11:56):
belong to, posting videos ofthem crying that they were
attacked at school.
And then you're attacking mewhen my music is literally made
for us just to sing alongtogether and get along my song,
tommy Pickles, named after TommyPickles from the Rugrats.
He's a leader.
I literally say, together, wecould lift each other because we
(12:17):
all deserve a chance.
All my music is to push forward.
I don't even make many lovesongs.
It's all about achieving whatyou want, whether it's a goal,
finding love, whatever, if youhave a goal, a dream, it's that
you could do it, no matter what.
It's not impossible.
That's the point of my music.
You tell me right now, cliff,you want to be an astronaut?
(12:40):
I'm going to say, okay, I, I'mnot going to be fazed.
Or if you tell me after thisepisode, you're not going to
host with Cliff anymore and youwant to be a scuba diver, go
ahead.
Or you want to be a tennisplayer?
Sure, I don't even question it,but I don't know.
(13:02):
People online are attacking meand other people, especially
those who are attacked, and Icomment back, even saying hey, I
looked at your profile.
There's a video of you cryingthat you were picked on today.
My music is about acceptance ofthat and I hope you find it in
(13:23):
you to understand what I'msaying.
Go f yourself.
No, I don't, I want to.
And I'm like wow, what?
So that's your response.
Yeah, and I was like I'm sayingand then someone else will like
I've been getting a lot ofhappiness lately and my
following actually doubled inthe last like month and a half
on tiktok and social media.
(13:43):
Everything's just going morerapidly right now and it's
really amazing.
I made the radio for the firsttime this month, which has been
super exciting.
But the point is I don't focuson the hate, but I get confused
by it and I tend to focus on itinadvertently because I'm like
(14:05):
how are they so quick to attackwhen I'm there?
Most songs on radio aboutgetting wasted, underage kids
doing things like it's veryconfusing time.
I feel like I sound old when Isay I don't get the new
generation.
They're singing about beingwasted.
(14:25):
And they're 17, they're 16.
This is major labels, adultspromoting children under
influence of stuff and that theywon't find love, that they want
to kill themselves, and allthis extreme things.
But I say something and I'm toldfrom people.
(14:47):
I've had people even close tome tell me your positivity is
toxic.
All you do is push forward.
Life isn't like that.
You need to get over it.
You're not happy, you're not,I'm like well, yeah, I know I'm
not happy.
I don't hide that.
I try really hard to be happyand I push positivity because I
don't want people to feel how Ido and if I could help that for
(15:08):
them, great.
But for you to tell me I'mliving in this happiness as a
false thing, or they tell meyou're choosing depression and
people who are said choose thatand you're, you're being happy
because it's a front, it's fake,it's just like what?
What will please people?
And I'm you can't.
(15:28):
You gotta take care of yourselfand the people around you and
that'll spread that kindness towhere it needs to go and not to
keep this as a run-onconversation.
But it reminds me of cliff'sepisode where he said he can't
be on the bus with everyone andprotect them when they're
getting picked on Like you justcan't be on every bus protecting
(15:51):
every kid on the way to school.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Drag me back to like where where music came in and
like younger years kind of stuff.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
I didn't start music until well into high school, so
we got to get there first, butbefore that I always felt like I
did not fit in whatsoever.
I was too hyper aware ofeverything I was.
I still don't understand itbecause I question it right now
and I don't.
(16:21):
I tried to get medical help,like therapy, all that, and it
hasn't been working great for mefor years now.
But I'm trying.
But anyway, I'd be five yearsold, six years old, first grade.
Why are we sitting in lineslike in the classroom?
Why are we all in a uniform?
What?
What is all of this like?
(16:43):
Really questioning reality,reality, very woke, as you would
say, and I wasn't aware of whatI was doing.
I was just thinking I was weirdand I would question why do we
line up as boys and girls Like,what is all of this?
It's confusing to me thestructure.
Who created the school system?
(17:04):
Why is a five-year-old thinkingthis?
My parents weren't theseconspiracy theorists.
They were really cool.
They still are.
They introduced me to music andeverything.
But anyway, I'd be really young.
Not knowing anything Feltreally weird my whole life.
So even even in kindergarten,the one thing I had was music.
(17:25):
My parents introduced me tomusic since I was born Def
Leppard, bon Jovi, all 80s music, brian Adams, anything they
just love music.
So that's one thing I got alongwith everyone about.
I could talk about music and Idid sports.
I did very typical thing of a90s kid into the 2000s you play
(17:47):
sports, you do that whatever itwas fun.
I loved it.
But there was no music in mymiddle school to play, so no one
I knew except one friend reallyplayed an instrument or sang.
That wasn't a thing.
I always thought I was ahorrible singer because no one
in my family could sing well andI could hear it.
I didn't sing and say, wow, I'mamazing, I knew I didn't sound
(18:10):
good, I could just hear it andthat's part of being a producer.
And I didn't know I wasproducing and well, this is
going to lead into it.
I'd be in the car seat goingdad, do you hear that the guitar
is only in the left ear?
And then his vocal moved andthen the drums I could hear.
Each hit is panned a little andI wasn't saying panning because
(18:33):
I didn't know that term yet,but it's in the left ear and
that cymbal's in the right earand the backup vocals are like
further away, and then I woulddo this my whole life and
dissect songs, and I didn't knowpeople made a living doing this
.
I didn't know you can grow upto be a musician for a living.
I didn't know that was real.
I thought you're kind of bornEddie Van Halen.
(18:55):
I thought that's it.
I didn't know you work for it.
That wasn't.
That's a fantasy world, youknow you don't see that.
So then remember some bullystories that I want to talk
about, of how you need to be aleader when you're young and I
found that out early back inmiddle school.
(19:15):
During these days, I rememberone specific incident that we
had, like the DARE program, youknow, teaching us about drugs
and substances and stay awayfrom them, and everyone picked
pins at the end of the day andthis stays in my head.
I'll never forget this you pickpins and everyone thought it
(19:36):
was cool, you know, to roll upstraws and pretend they look
like cigarettes and stuff, causeit was the nineties, you know,
and there was candy cigarettesback then.
So I was like that's stupid,because cigarettes give you
cancer and that will kill you.
So why would you do that?
That's how my brain processedit and I chose the say no to
(19:59):
smoking pin and I was the onlyperson.
Everyone chose the same onebecause it was like cool looking
, everyone wanted it.
And I really went up to thefront of the room and picked the
different one.
The whole class made fun of meI don't know why to this day and
like, as I'm choosing it,they're like why did you pick
(20:19):
that one?
And yeah, it sounds silly, butthat stuck with me, cause then
we went to lunch and recess andthey were making fun of me.
They're like, look at the pinon your shirt, it doesn't look
like ours.
And that moment was a bigmoment for me, cause I felt
horrible.
I, you know I went home likewhy am I different?
(20:41):
Why did I choose that one?
And I felt horrible, you know.
I went home like why am Idifferent?
Why did I choose that one?
And I felt like why didn't Ijust choose the other one?
I didn't want that other one, Iwanted the pin I wanted, and
that's okay, yeah, but theyreally made me feel weird and
different because I just chose adifferent pin.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
That's actually, that's a sign of a really strong
mind.
You know, to have that outsideof the crowd mind at a young age
, it's actually, I think, awonderful thing, because when we
get older, yeah, when we getolder especially it's like it's
hard to break those things.
Actually, I think it's harderwhen you're younger and so and
(21:19):
that's the key to so much thatgoes on these days is people
just jump on board witheverybody else, right?
People are afraid to voicetheir own opinions, people are
afraid to stand up to otherpeople.
I mean, we were asked on thatlast podcast.
It's like not to go too morbid,but that woman that was stabbed
to death in front of like 30people and it's like the
behavior that you're exhibitingby choosing the different pin to
(21:41):
me is outside the sheepmentality and it's important,
it's heroic, in my opinion.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Thank you and I appreciate that, and I want
everyone to feel like you couldchoose what you want and do what
you want.
And there's just so many timesI felt pointed out like, oh, you
do this, or did you know Lennydoes this.
Why are you pointing me out?
What did I do?
And now I'm realizing I wasjust a threat to everybody for
(22:09):
being a leader and everyone'sscared of other people having
power.
And it's not about power,though.
I'm just making music, I'm justspeaking my opinion.
For some reason, people arethreatened by other people and I
don't understand.
I believe, with music orwhatever success there is out
(22:30):
there, there's enough foreverybody.
I'm not the only one that couldbecome successful in music.
Both of you could have hits.
I could have hits justintimberlake and Justin.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Timberlake and Shawn Mendes, cliff for sure.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Hey, I'm going to tune the studio.
We'll make some songs.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I'm actually making a reality for.
Tyler.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
No, but for real.
I've recorded people thatactually were tone deaf, meaning
they cannot carry a tune whenthey sing.
If they're singing happybirthday for those who don't
know, they'll be literally goinghappy birthday to you and they
won't know it's off Like they'llhave no idea.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
When we talk about Hollywood, like I feel like
Hollywood's been doing a decentjob, like they always show the
bully kid.
That's not cool, right, it'snot cool to be the bully kid.
We show that in Hollywood allthe time, right?
But then you just brought upthat and that, actually it gave
me a thought.
It's like American Idol.
You're right, they pick on thepeople, right?
We have a lot of shows wherewe're producing bully behavior
(23:31):
basically.
So I guess it's not as clear.
As you know, it goes pastHollywood, you know, it's like
we're basically teaching people.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Yeah, the contracts say they could use your image
and likeliness for humor to mockyou.
It says it that they can mockyou.
Someone I know is on AmericanIdol.
They did a thing where he wentover yeah, katy Perry's one of
the judges.
He went over, shook all those,all their hands, and the way
they cut it she droppedsomething.
I believe I forget the exactstory story, but something
happened where she looked likedisgusted for some reason, so
(24:05):
they made it look like when heshook her hand she was disgusted
because he was like this rockerand didn't look like the
typical person.
And after they made her saidlike I need hand sanitizer and
then they literally made themlook like he was a gross person.
Yeah, and then, like they evencut it to the point where they
were talking to him going do you?
(24:25):
What kind of singing do you do?
All kinds you sing?
Do you scream?
Can you growl?
And so then he did all threeand when they cut it, they go
could you sing us a song?
And they cut it to the and theywere like what's wrong with you
?
And they made him look likereally horrible and he tried
suing and like posted like Ididn't.
This isn't what happened, and Inever saw him pursue music
(24:49):
after that and he was awesome.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Maybe you're actually answering my question, but I'd
be curious.
So, is American Idol good forthe world or is it bad for the
world?
Is it good for musicians or isit bad for musicians?
Speaker 5 (25:01):
If Ryan Seacrest would like to have me on his
morning show.
American idol is such an amazingshow yeah and if it's for your
mental health and your image, Isay be very careful, because I
don't know how great it is then,because someone could take you
and do anything to you and makeyou look like anything.
There's all this technologywith ai that could change what
(25:22):
you say and my voice and youcould cut it up.
I think it's great in the sensethat, yes, it can make
opportunity.
You could be seen, you could beheard, but with anything, even
if you're not an American Idol,a record label, a manager,
anyone.
If this wasn't a bully podcast,you two could even cut this up
(25:42):
and make me look horrible withwhat I say, and so I think
American Idol can be amazing foryou, but truthfully, I wouldn't
go on there myself.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, what do you think?
Because you used to get clippedand stuff all the time out of
context.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I'll say Len lenny, you're absolutely amazing
because life's about how wethink about things.
You know like there's risk andreward to everything that we do
and ultimately, everyone wantsthe highest reward.
Yeah, you know, even when abully's bullying, they want some
sort of reward.
(26:19):
Oh, I'm like everybody else.
You were completely different.
Yeah, you thought differentlyand you did different things
yeah and eventually we get intothis mold where we realize, oh
crap, I gotta be different to beseen like yeah, so, so it's
like it's like all right,everybody be like everybody else
yeah oh crap, I gotta bedifferent so that I could
(26:42):
actually show up and give valueto the world and be like yeah
exactly it'sso yeah, yeah, and I look at it
and I go, okay, I get the game.
The game is there's light andthere's darkness, yeah, and in
the darkest times, you get tosee the yeah, you get to, you
get to see the stars, you get tosee the stars.
(27:03):
What does everyone want to be astar?
Everyone wants to be a star.
But can you be a star in thedarkness?
And with what you're doing,lenny?
You, you want to shine light onpeople and sometimes, like I
I've learned myself, you know,I'm a 42 year old man now Some
(27:24):
people don't want that, even alittle bit.
Yeah, they'll claim that theywant it and you know what.
That's okay.
Yeah.
Like.
At one time I thought like, oh,it's so unfortunate.
There is no unfortunate,there's just fortunate.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
Yeah, it's unfortunate when you see them in
pain, though, because they doput themselves in pain, and
that's what's unfortunate,because people could avoid
certain things, and theirbehaviors do lead to destructive
behaviors.
But we can only help people somuch, and they are choosing
their path.
That's the thing.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
What what's so cool and they choose what's so cool
pain is a piece of the game yeahpain is a piece of the game.
When, so, I was an overweightkid and I lost my weight, there
was pain.
It was different, and I and Irealized like, oh, oh, this is
just one big game at the end ofthe day, we can't see hindsight
(28:19):
2020, and so when we start you,we can literally reframe our
past, and in reframing our past,we create a new future yeah and
I was just like holy crap, thisis insane.
And so, lenny, you're, you'regreat and that's it.
You're great.
You don't have to explain like,oh well, I did this and I did
(28:42):
this and I'm trying to be happy.
No, you're, you're going to behappy.
Sometimes you're going to benot so happy.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Sometimes you're going to have a story to tell,
and the story wouldn't begetting good without the pain,
right?
No, and I think about this allthe time.
What's the better feeling?
Is it pressure or pleasure, orrelief from pain?
Speaker 3 (29:00):
yeah, and I think usually it's relief from pain,
because you don't know if you'rejust in pleasure, sure, but you
come out of the womb eating icecream right away exactly.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
You don't get paid in music.
You don't get paid in music tofurther down the road.
Yeah, that relieves the painbecause the rest is pleasure, in
a way, and the most reward iswhen I'm like oh, I bought a
meal.
Yeah, and financial strugglesare arguably one of the biggest
(29:30):
struggles in the world.
I would say so, yeah, therelief of pain of your success
or anything you do, the reliefof pain whether you become a new
person or your transformationof your body leads you somewhere
.
Yeah, it's a relief of pain.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
It is, and sometimes you can't have that without the
pain right yeah and so and andlike who?
Oprah's never gonna interviewyou if you haven't been through
enough things to make a story soI can.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
I don't want to have you unless you don't have a
crazy story.
Oh yeah, I tell people all thetime.
It's like these awful thingshappen to you.
Just overcome to make a story.
American Idol won't have youunless you don't have a crazy
story.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Oh yeah, I tell people all the time it's like
these awful things happen to you.
Just overcome them.
It's part of your story.
That's the way you have tothink about it.
The story would be no good ifeverything went perfect.
You know, if everything waspleasure, the story wouldn't be
any good, right, and youcouldn't.
So the fact that you'veovercome you know the adversity
of these, being different as akid, which I applaud you for
(30:23):
it's.
It's hard to be different inthis world Now, dealing with the
naysayers online every time youwant to sing and share that and
you have to deal with them.
I mean, these are the thingsthat is going to lead you to
your success and, like we talkedabout online, it's like you
just got to focus on the peoplethat it is important for Right.
The message is for right, onthe people that it is important
for right.
The message is for right.
(30:43):
The message is not maybe it's alittle, for I mean, hurt people
, hurt people.
It's a little bit for them, butit's more so.
It's like that person out theresitting in the corner that's
siloing right.
That just needed to hear thatmessage today.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
Correct.
And you know it all started forme to be a leader, truthfully,
when I was three.
My I have two brothers and oneof them was diagnosed, is
diagnosed with autism.
So at three years old, myparents, who were only 26 at the
(31:15):
time, are telling me you knowwell, I was six then and they
were, you know three, 29 then,which is still insanely young to
have two kids and one'sdiagnosed with autism.
And they said you have to dowell in school.
You got to take care of yourbrother if anything happened to
us.
So here I am, four years old,five, six years old.
Whatever going, I have to getstraight A's.
(31:36):
If I don't get straight A's, myautistic brother is going to be
in a home alone as an old man.
That was my thought from fiveyears old.
So everything I did, I cannotdrink, I cannot smoke, I cannot
get in trouble in school.
I've never got detention.
I've never failed a class.
I've failed tests.
That's natural.
(31:56):
But I was a straight A student.
My parents were very hard on mefor my grades.
If it was under a 90, I'm introuble.
I reached the point where I wasdisciplining myself first,
second grade.
I remember I was spellingthings wrong, like simple things
.
It was first grade spellingtest and I got I think I got a
(32:19):
63 on this test reading,comprehension and spelling thing
.
I went home, unplugged my supernintendo and didn't play for
two weeks because I said I don'tdeserve it, because I'm I'm
failing my family and that comesfrom a little bit of pressure
from my parents, truthfully, andit's because my father didn't
(32:44):
have a father and his mother wasnot a mother figure, so he had
0% parenting, so he 200%-ed meand that was actually kind of
detrimental to me.
But we're working on things.
I'm a workaholic.
Because of it I work so hard, Iwork myself to the ground to
take care of people and I'veneglected myself for years, up
(33:09):
until now even and it's a bigissue I'm dealing with I want to
ask you an interesting question, um what's your big dream?
Speaker 3 (33:20):
What do you want to accomplish?
Speaker 5 (33:22):
I'm grateful that I do music full time.
I'm sitting in my room rightnow with my dinosaur bed sheets
right there, as you could see,having a great time.
I make music right here.
My songs made the radio.
I work for people.
I listened to my whole life.
I feel like I made it.
I don't have a Lambo yet.
(33:42):
Do I want one?
Yeah, I do.
They're cool, they're fast,they're fun.
I can't lie.
I can't lie.
It's fun.
Does that define who I am?
No, I don't want to be popular.
I really don't, because thatmeans I got to deal with talking
to more people and receivingmore of a headache because
people want to just come at me.
Now, the more I grow, they wantliterally people I was close
(34:05):
with.
Oh, you're having some success.
You don't talk to me anymore.
What?
Yeah, where is this coming from?
And I don't want to be popular.
Uh, it's just part of theterritory.
I just I will play arenas andstadiums and give people a place
to just sing and dance and havea good time, and you will get
(34:28):
the messages you need from mymusic.
They're often lessons,positivity and how you apply
them to you.
I hope it lets you say I'mgoing to do this.
I'm going to do that.
It doesn't matter what you wantto do.
I hope that's what my musicdoes for you.
So the big goal and dream is tojust elevate what I've already
(34:48):
done.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
It's like I watched a documentary on the yacht racing
and these guys came out ofAustralia and the Americans were
always winning.
Heavily financed boat Alwayswon Far and away.
And then here comes these guys,and the guy was an engineer
that built the boat from adifferent industry.
I don't recall what he builtthis fin underneath the boat
that had never been heard of,and that boat destroyed every
(35:10):
other boat.
And it's literally because hecame in with a different mindset
, a different talent, adifferent idea of what it could
be.
And I think we're all too oftenwilling to put people in this
box, right, oh yeah, you know,and I think we're all too often
willing to put people in thisbox, right, oh yeah, and it's
the people that finally, like,think like you.
And you could see, like earlyon, that lenny, you know, wasn't
, he was thinking outside thebox way long time ago yeah so I
(35:30):
could see that.
Um, you know how that would leadto.
You know you reinventing somethings, and what I love about
what you're saying too.
Um, have you seen the newarnold documentary?
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I started it last night what's the first episode?
Last night, yeah.
So as soon as it started I waslike I'm arnold, I'm literally
arnold, I didn't know, and whenI'm at the gym I actually do
arnold workouts.
I know I'm not that big, but Iactually go to the gym every day
and I have trouble gaining mass.
We could talk about that afterYou'll get there.
I cannot gain.
(36:02):
But yes, go on, arnold, love it.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I mean like it's so, so amazing.
A couple of key things, butmostly I want to key in on what
Lenny said.
It's like Arnold says basically, stay busy, that's his key, and
be useful, that's his phrase.
You know.
Stay, stay busy and be useful.
That was this key to happiness.
And Lenny's saying when he's onstage he thinks of nothing else
in the world.
And so I think a lot of peoplethat are lost in this misery
(36:25):
they're not staying busy enough,they're not staying busy enough
on what they're interested in.
And the other key take this is alittle bit off topic for Arnold
he knew, I think knowing whatyou want is a superpower, right?
Arnold knew at 10 years old hewanted to be a bodybuilder, he
wanted to be a movie star.
The governor thing came later,but he knew he wanted those
things and if you can aligneverything in your life to that,
(36:47):
that's a superpower.
So the sooner you can kind offigure that out.
Or Lenny found it out earlywith music, you know it's like I
mean that's.
I mean that was a huge takeawayfor me with Arnold.
That's why he's so successful.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
That and his work ethic.
He said he didn't fit in.
He's like I don't fit.
He's like why don't I fit in?
And that's something I'vewritten down that I kind of
touched upon.
But I keep relating to cliff'sepisode because it's the last
one I heard.
Actually, I listened to a fewof them and, um, but even you
were saying like belongingsomewhere, just fitting in, and
to this day, I I still don'tfeel like I fit in.
(37:23):
As I grow and I'm findingpeople who relate to my music.
Yes, those are the people who Ifit with, but it's taking a
really long time.
And if you want me to answer,do I feel like I fit in?
No, I feel out.
Here in Los Angeles I don'treally have friends.
I don't go out, I'm only outfor business.
All I do is my work.
(37:44):
When I was working before westarted this, I'm working all
day after.
I'm up from 8 am or earlierpast 3 to 4 am working.
I'm a workaholic and it's notgreat because it's bad for my
health.
I've ended up in the hospitalmultiple times and I don't want
(38:09):
to blame anything, but it'sbecause of all the bullying,
being told how much I have towork, that you can't do this and
it requires a lot of work formusic or anything you're
pursuing to really make it grow.
It takes so much work and I'vebeen in the hospital.
Grow it takes so much work andI've been in the hospital.
I've collapsed multiple times,I've been on IVs, all that stuff
(38:31):
, because I'm malnourished.
I got down to maybe like 120something pounds at one point
and it was because I wasn'teating and I didn't even realize
because I was obsessing onmaking music and pushing forward
and a song I have coming out ina few days that, will you know,
will be out maybe when thisairs.
I'm unsure when it will.
But anyway, I have a song onMonday.
I have a song called.
(38:51):
I'll just say this I have asong called the Messiah Complex.
That is about all of this, anda Messiah Complex is someone who
feels like it's up to them tosave the world.
And that is not going to happenand that is not a negative or
cynical take, because my wholething is to save the world and
(39:14):
I'm telling you, the way it canbe done is if you impact those
close to you, because you'regoing to burn yourself out.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
You can't help anybody until you take care of
yourself right?
That's key number one.
You know it's like you have tobe in a good place physically.
I mean obsessive behaviortowards a goal, I mean that's
what's going to get you there.
But you have to, like, stillhave some balance, enough that
your body still gets you there.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
You know the forest and the trees.
The forest and our stories aredefined by us taking action in
the story.
You know, like, just as you say, like I was bedridden for 10
days as an entrepreneur and Iwas so good with my time and
(40:01):
timing, like I knew that I couldsleep for four hours on a
regular basis and that's what Idid.
I timed it perfectly.
What I didn't realize was mykid could get sick and that four
hours I would normally get.
I didn't get and it caught upto me and it beat the crap out
of me.
Um, and I did like I didn'teven think of myself as a
(40:24):
perfectionist, because I'mlistening to you and I'm hearing
perfectionist, perfectionist,perfectionist.
There's a bunch of differentways to go after being a
perfectionist and it's like,okay, where, what inch?
Where can I change things?
Where can I?
We all like influencing peopleLike that's the, that's what
bully this is about isinfluencing people to be
(40:45):
something different, to besomething greater, to be
something more, and to remindothers who are bullied that they
have something different, to besomething greater, to be
something more.
And to remind others who arebullied that they have something
different, they have somethingspecial, they have something
more.
And as we go through thatprocess, sometimes we have to
point the mirror to ourselvesand say am I standing for what
(41:05):
I'm telling others to stand for?
And sometimes we're not.
But we have to go through ourjourney in order to understand
that too.
Beat ourselves up, putourselves in a gown and say hey,
I'm going to sing about thisbecause this sucks.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:18):
And that's why I took the mindset of people saying
you're always positive.
I was like you know what?
I need to show them some of thereal stuff of how I got to this
mindset, because I wasn'talways like this, like, yeah, I
got to this mindset because Iwasn't always like this, like,
yeah, you can do it.
I was like I didn't do it yet,so I don't know if you can do it
.
And just being able to affordrent, food, basic living off of
(41:46):
music, to me that's success.
You know, like do I have a job?
Yeah, it's mixing music forpeople.
I'm my boss.
If I don't want to work today,I don't have to.
I've been doing that for a fewyears.
I'm so grateful for that and Iwant everyone who wants to do
that to be able to be their ownboss.
But it takes so much work and Ineed to show what happened
during that, because the journeyisn't just putting the work and
then it all works Like no,you're going to fail and you're
(42:08):
going to collapse and you'regoing to be on the brink of who
knows what.
You don't know.
It's really hard All of this toyou know, really make it happen
.
But people tell me oh, now theytell me you're so lucky what
you're doing.
I wish I could do what you didand I say you know what you did
in your 20s.
You had a life and I have nomemories of my twenties.
(42:32):
I don't remember my teenageyears.
I didn't go out and party.
I didn't get to sneak out andget in trouble.
I didn't get to get weight.
I've never blacked out before.
I didn't even get to do thatstuff.
I never.
I never taking drugs Like I'mnot.
I can't because if I overdoseand who's gonna watch my brother
?
That's why I never did thisstuff and that mindset and
(42:53):
that's kind of extreme.
But you know what it's, who Iam.
I've accepted it.
I'm learning balance now.
Maybe everything costssomething.
It does everything awesome.
A lot of people tell me you'recynical the way you talk.
You say it's a bad world we'rein, but you just need to go
about your life and worry aboutyourself.
There's a difference betweenfocusing on yourself to further
(43:14):
yourself and be healthy and justforget everyone else.
This ain't about.
It's about you only Likethere's a.
That's a thing.
You know there's a fine lineand I don't know.
It's tough.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
You have to have balance in life.
There's no doubt it's somethingI didn't learn easy.
It took a long time to learn it.
You know balance.
You know I'm even still tryingto do that now.
And then you have to realizeeverything costs something.
You know, to get what you wantin life, it does cost, you know
something.
It costs your time, it costsyour health.
You know, to some extent.
I mean, running a business isn'tmuch different than being in
(43:49):
music.
You know it's like it's a lotof work, it's a lot harder than
people think it's.
You know it's.
It's stressful all the time.
You know like it doesn't, itnever goes away.
And same with you know musicyou're, you know, working for
yourself in the music industry.
But I don't think we wouldthink about working in the micro
enough, and that's what I tryto think about these days.
It doesn't matter if 400,000people see bully this.
(44:10):
It matters if one person seesbully this and that one person
is affected from it.
Right, if we think aboutworking in the micro, then it's
more achievable, right?
And then if we happen to hit400,000 people, then of course
that is wonderful, you know.
But for now we work on the one.
Speaker 5 (44:27):
Exactly Every time I post, I've mentioned, it's a net
into the internet ocean.
Now it's not just affect ahundred thousand people, like
we're saying, if that one personis affected by that one post.
If one person hears thisepisode and goes and tells one
person, then it's going to growone, two, three, the four, four,
the eight.
Then it's going to grow one,two, three, four, four, eight,
(44:49):
eight, 16.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
But you have to do it on a micro level.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
You have to Each song I release.
I can't think it's just goingto be a hit.
If four people like it, I thinkeight people might like the
next one.
And according to the statisticsof how I grow and how business
is growing, the numbers show youwhen it starts going.
It goes like this and getssteeper and steeper and steeper
because it'll go.
(45:14):
But it doesn't start until thatfirst little bit starts going.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
And it is that micro level and and everything has a
tipping point, right.
Every things work gradually atfirst, but then they'll
eventually hit a tipping point.
So with music, all of a suddenit's going to explode, right so?
And you don't know when that'sgoing to come.
Speaker 5 (45:32):
You don't know, everyone's journey is different
and it could be when you're 16.
It could be when you're 45.
It could be when you're 60.
It doesn't matter.
There's no rules to life andpeople need to figure that out
too.
There's laws, but there aren'treally rules and you need to
understand you can do anythingyou want.
(45:52):
I feel like we're finallyseeing that and, you know, I
think there's sort ofgenerational trauma finally
being broken to the newgeneration saying like you can
pursue what you want, you can dowhat you want.
Because it used to be.
You know, go to school, getmarried, have kids, work.
You know, it was very oldmindset and now people are doing
(46:14):
what they want.
But it does take a lot morework to do what you want and be
your own boss than to just get anine to five job.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, people don't realize how much I do it all.
Speaker 5 (46:28):
I do it all from morning till night and makes it
hard to eat, makes it hard tobalance a relationship.
I didn't get to the go to thegym yesterday because I was just
too busy Like I could not gothere and if I don't do it the
posting will slow down and thenmy growth just stops.
It really does.
(46:48):
It's about consistency.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
And I can't get posting done, though, if you
don't eat.
Speaker 5 (46:55):
I know, I know you gotta sleep, so I feel like you
get zero posts done if you're inthe hospital.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
So make sure you eat and make sure you sleep.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
Exactly, and it's just insane though it's so hard
and the amount of work that goesinto it and it the thing that
kind of breaks my heart the mostis when people come up to me
and they go you play instruments.
I'm like I'm every instrumenton.
I was like there are songs youlisten to that you're hearing me
and you don't even know it.
(47:22):
And like I post about it a lotand it still doesn't reach
people.
There are people who I've grownup with going oh, you do music.
I was like how, like you'vebeen following me for 15 years
on facebook and you don't see itstill.
Well, and that's how hard it isto reach people and, um, but
(47:43):
yeah, we have to take care ofourselves because our body is a
temple and anything and one day,day at a time right.
It is one day at a time.
You can think of the future,and I was wrapped up in the
future since a little kid, andI'm always wrapped in the future
and I'm working on that, butyou really could only take care
of right now and be mindful andbe in the moment, and I struggle
(48:06):
with that.
I calculate every minute.
If I'm doing this, this isgoing to take this long.
I even stare at the counterright now.
Hour two minutes.
It is 1146 here.
I have this to do, this to do.
I calculate every second.
It's obsessive and I don't likeit honestly.
I wish I could change a little,and it's hard, though, though,
(48:28):
and with everyone bullying andpushing you, saying you can't do
it.
That makes me want to stay upan extra hour, though, and prove
people wrong, and provingpeople wrong shouldn't be your
motive to make it, but sometimesit does feel good when you're
like I mean, I've used it.
Yeah, you know I mean my life.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I think it's very powerful, if you use it
correctly?
Speaker 1 (48:50):
exactly no, but I.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I agree it shouldn't be to the point where you have
to use it, but if you've beengiven it anyways, why not use it
?
Speaker 5 (48:57):
because I love when they tell me you can't do that
in middle school I want.
So I was gonna bring this up.
Here's a bullying story from myteacher I, when I took tests,
they would tell you at school ohokay, so the essays on this
test are going to be thisparagraph highlighted in your
textbook that literally, likeyou know, it'll say that my hard
(49:20):
drive case, right here, it hasthis red writing on it four
terabyte.
They'll say highlight downthere it says four terabyte,
three year warranty.
We're going to ask thosequestions.
So what I do?
I memorized, memorized it wordfor word, and I would spit it
back on the paper word for word,and I would get accused of
cheating my whole life that Ihave mirrors on my desk showing
(49:43):
me my books on the floor or I'mcopying the other kids, but none
of the other kids had itwritten like me, and it would be
word for word, though like likefull paragraphs.
I know that was told.
I was told I was cheating.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
I know that was a crappy thing to deal with, but
how much of that has led you toyour work ethic today.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
Yeah, a lot of it, because I see things where I can
memorize music faster than alot of people and I could do
these things and your memory isreally important and, you know,
pushing your brain power itreally helped me.
But yeah, I was accused from myteachers that I'm a cheater.
There is no way you could dothat.
You cannot memorize that.
That's a lot to do.
You can't do it.
(50:23):
Maybe I am special then.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
So I'll have a take on it.
You chose to see how you weregoing to see what was told to
you and, um, anyone out therewho's dealing with a problem,
dealing with the challenge?
Yeah, life, life should be acertain way, but it's not always
going to be.
(50:47):
You're going to have people whosay things, who are going to
doubt you, who are going to puta lid on themselves.
It's not always going to be.
You're going to have people whosay things who are going to
doubt you, who are going to puta lid on themselves.
It's really them.
They're not even putting a lidon you.
They're putting a lid onthemselves and saying, well, I
couldn't do this, so youcouldn't do this.
I couldn't do this, so youcouldn't do this.
You popped the lid off.
Someone has to.
Speaker 5 (51:08):
You popped the lid off.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Someone has to you popped the effing lid off.
Speaker 5 (51:11):
Thanks, I'm trying.
I want everyone to know you cando whatever I don't like being
told no, you can do whatever.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
It almost makes me want to do that.
Speaker 5 (51:20):
When you tell me no, I kind of want to be rebellious,
because I never had arebellious face.
I didn't sneak out, I didn't goto parties and get drunk.
I didn't get to parties and getdrunk Like I didn't get to do
that.
I feel like I miss a big partof my youth.
Not that I'm saying the youthshould go out and party, but you
know what I'm getting at.
I didn't do any of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
Absolutely nothing, because look at what you've
created, I agree, and look atwhat you're creating now.
You've missed nothing, yeah.
Yeah, See what's just introuble.
We look back and go, well, Icould have done and I could have
.
And what about?
And there's this over here, Ihave today, I have now, you have
now, tyler has now, and I lookat, pop the lid off.
(52:02):
Yeah.
You know that that's the gamethat I say pop the lid off.
And what was interesting?
I actually didn't talk verymuch.
I wouldn't speak very much.
I actually started speakingmore outside of the UFC, because
people are like Cliff, you gotto get your message out there.
You're a powerhouse.
And I didn't even realize I hada network that I was building
(52:28):
this entire time, even realize Ihad a network that I was
building this entire time.
And as I started speaking moreand more and more and I'm
realizing like, oh crap, I'vebeen so busy being in here
because no one can break thisthing.
No one can break this.
I don't believe in you.
I do believe in you, I kind ofbelieve in you, but now I don't
believe in you because my lifesucks.
(52:49):
I don't believe in you.
And now I do't believe in youbecause my life sucks, I don't
believe in you.
And now I do believe in youbecause you showed that you
could do it.
It doesn't matter, it's all inhere anyway.
And when I go like, okay, I canbe whatever I want to be,
whatever I choose to be ArnoldSchwarzenegger, you, Tyler, what
do I want to be I shut thenoise down.
(53:09):
Yeah.
And then people started you gotto speak more, speak more.
And the more I spoke, the moreI realized holy crap, not only
do I affect others, but theyaffect me.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (53:23):
Yeah, so speaking more yeah, I, I don't like to
speak a lot.
Something I struggled with whenI was in other projects was I
wasn't a singer in otherprojects because I thought I
couldn't sing.
I thought to sing you have tosound like Whitney Houston or
Aretha Franklin or, you know,bruno Mars.
You have to be the best singer.
You don't.
(53:44):
You just have to have emotionand conviction and have
something that relates to peopleand it'll stick with them.
And if you have a more pleasantvoice, that's always a plus.
But the point is I was told youcan't sing.
I remember I was in an oldproject and I don't like to
reflect on this because I don'tlike reflecting on the negative
(54:07):
things, but there was a time Isaid, hey, I want to sing verse
two, and the singer said to mesure, just give me a guitar and
let me make an a-hole of myselfon stage two then.
And I looked at him and saidare you, did you just really
(54:27):
make fun of me that badly, whenwe've been through everything
together, we've toured thecountry, we've made the radio,
we've we literally quit our jobs?
We figured this out togetherand you won't.
Let me say something when I doall the audio and even if I
stunk, I could make anyone soundlike a pop star.
But you made fun of me and yousaid no one will sing if it's
(54:52):
not you.
You said my other bandmatescan't sing.
You refuse it, you will not letit happen.
The same person that told me ifhis boyfriend becomes more
successful before him, he has tobreak up with him.
You are you.
I'm sorry.
You hate yourself.
You literally hate yourself,dude, like you hate yourself.
You literally hate yourself,dude, like you do.
(55:12):
He's one of the most miserablepeople.
I'm not bashing him.
It's not making fun of him.
I am observing.
I was with this person.
They have something to sayabout everyone, everyone, and
they were one of the bestsingers I've ever met and one of
the most talented people I'veever met in my life to this day.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
That's hard.
Speaker 5 (55:35):
And they are arguably the best singer I've ever
recorded.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
I mean you're going places, my friend, and you know
I know there was some not sogreat things growing up, but I
think you're a shining exampleof you know thinking for
yourself working really, reallyhard to get what you want.
Now, I'm glad you mentionedbalance in this, because it's
another thing that I'm likeworking on these days too, and
I'll be the first to say thatlife has to have enough balance,
because you can't help anybodywith you without your help self.
(56:01):
Um um, Cliff, before we wrap uptoday, what do you got?
Speaker 3 (56:06):
Uh, absolutely amazing episode, lenny,
appreciate having you and theamazing insights that you gave
and for the audience.
You know, work ethic, believein yourself, keep moving forward
, and support systems.
You know, the one thing thatshows up consistently is who are
(56:27):
my support systems?
And if we're your supportsystem, just keep watching, keep
pouring into yourself, keepdoing the things that you need
to, and if someone needs asupport system, share this out
with them.
Let them know that it'savailable.
Let's keep shining together.
You know I'm having a lot of funand Lenny said it perfectly
there's people who want tosupport and shine, and there's
(56:49):
people who want to support andshine and there's people who
want to take that shine away.
Uh, so that that's why it'svital that you be a part of the
message.
You'd be a part of that shininglight and and bringing into the
society so that we can all showour greatest potential.
And, uh, tyler, appreciate you,as always, uh, for putting this
(57:09):
together.
You know, you know it's awesomeand it's been growing and
growing and we've been having alot of fun.
Speaker 5 (57:14):
So thank you.
Thank you so much Thanks forhaving me and I really looked
forward to this and I know evenmy answers were scattered.
It probably was hard to get ahold of me.
That's because I'm really doingeverything.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
Thank you so much, man.
Great to have you on Some greatmindset stuff.
And I would say to you, Lenny,make sure you're focusing on the
people as much that are gettinggood things from you as the bad
things, right.
You know, I know we have somehaters and bullies in this world
, but focus on the good people,the people that are coming back
and saying this is how muchyou've helped me, because those
are the people worth it.
Right, and then eventuallyyou'll bring around the bullies
(57:47):
too.
So thanks so much to LennyCliff.
This is the only time we get tohang out anymore.
So, I guess we better come backnext week and do another
episode.
Thanks for tuning in to Bullythis.
We'll see you again.
Appreciate you all.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
You've been listening to Bully this a hero's journey.
The effects on kids that arebullied are many Increased risk
for depression, anxiety, sleepdifficulties, lower grades and
dropping out of school.
It's a real problem and that'swhy we created this show.
We're acutely aware of the pain, shame and damage that bullying
(58:22):
causes and our passion is tohelp kids and families to know
that there is always help, thatthere is always a solution.
We hope you've gotten someuseful information from the show
.
Make sure to like, rate andreview, and we'll be back soon,
but in the meantime, find us onFacebook at Bully this A Hero's
(58:42):
Journey.
Take care and we'll see younext time.
One out of every five students report being bullied.
13% were made fun of, callednames or insulted.
They were pushed, shoved,tripped or spit on.
One in five tweens have beencyberbullied.
It's a problem and it has tostop.
Welcome to Bully.
This a hero's journey.
There's light at the end of thetunnel.
(00:24):
Our passion is to show kidsthat there is life after
bullying.
You'll hear from former bulliesand bullying victims and you'll
hear how they made theirjourney from troubled youth to
successful adults.
Welcome to Bully.
This A Hero's Journey.
Now your hosts TylerCopenhaver-Heath and Clifford
(00:45):
Starks.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Bully, this
episode 10, or season 2, episode2.
I'm Tyler, I'm Clifford andCliff.
It's time for another one,right.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
One out of ten, not so bad.
So give me, give me it, andlet's see what I do.
Well, here's the thing too.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Like I uh talk to the guys about setting us up on the
opposite side of the table,because I think every time you
cheat there is no way that oneright.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, on my own.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
There's no way you could possibly cheat this time.
So let's talk about a singer.
And he opened up about teasingthat he experienced in ninth
grade.
He actually published a YouTubevideo and a group of older boys
found out at school that thisvideo was online and they
started teasing him and sayingsing for me, sing for me.
(01:41):
And he said he posted aboutthis.
He said that made me feelabsolutely horrible, made me
feel sing for me.
And he said he posted aboutthis.
He said that made me feelabsolutely horrible, made me
feel like a joke, like what Iwas doing was stupid or wrong.
He recalled.
He also said it's not a joke tome, to me to make somebody feel
bad about what they're doingwhen they're doing what they
love.
Every single person to deservesto do what makes them feel
(02:04):
alive.
So this was in reflection afterhe was already famous.
You got any guesses?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Justin Timberlake.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
No, that's a good guess, shawn Mendes.
Oh yeah, so he basically.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
One out of 12.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And since the beginning I've said I want to
have an episode on a musician,because I think artists actually
suffer the most from some ofthis stuff, because what makes
them amazing in their talents isconsidered maybe odd to some
people or they get made fun offor it.
I see, especially withmusicians and stuff, it seems A
lot of the people that we'veactually talked about
celebrity-wise were musiciansthat were teased.
(02:42):
Right, it's very true.
I mean it happens with athletesand stuff too, you know.
But and like computer peopleand things like that.
But I noticed like the artistsespecially like what's making
them unique and what willeventually be their greatness,
they get picked on for it.
So really happy to have amusician on the show today.
Um, our next guest.
He's a fan of the show.
We've been interacting greatguy.
Um, he's an up-and-comingmusician.
(03:02):
Recently noticed in a post hewas talking about having over a
million streams on his latestsong.
So it's a good thing we have himon now before he doesn't want
anything to do with us anymore.
He's worked with Nick Jonas,megan Trainor and oddly Shawn
Mendes so I didn't even planthat to name just a few.
He's not only a performer, buthe's also a gifted writer,
(03:25):
producer, mixer and he mastersall his own tracks.
And, by the way, a lot of hismusic is based on trying to help
other people.
In addition, he works withothers in their music.
He's worked with Craig Mabbittfrom Escape the Fate, danny
Worship from as alexandra jasonpage, who's the original singer
(03:45):
of the pokemon theme song prettycool, um.
And many others.
Super excited to have on lennyj today with us thank you so
much.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Thanks for having me yeah, thanks for making.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
It's so crazy the way like I set the intro up, you
know, with some questions andstuff, like I always do, and
then Shawn Mendes, I didn't evenput that together, you know.
So it just so happened thatthat it's kind of fate today.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Yeah, yeah, you never know with who's going to pop
off, cause I remember I, when Ifirst was really pursuing music
professionally or for like fulltime, as you would say, I played
the show and sean mendez was onthe bill and he didn't have any
(04:30):
of his really big hits yet.
It was back when, if you know,the song stitches at all.
But oh yeah, he was sittingthere on the steps, we were
backstage and I'm like how areyou doing like?
You know you're on next,because we were just on what I
was doing, so he was even onafter us and he was like, yeah,
I'm going to play a new song.
And he played Stitches and Iwas like, oh, this is a good
(04:52):
song and, like here, we are now.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
you know, you never know who's going to pop off, but
yeah, no, Did you know thatabout him too, that he took some
flack for his music early on?
Speaker 5 (05:06):
I didn him too that he took some plaque for his
music early on.
I didn't know exactly that, butI didn't know.
I've met the person that taughthim guitar and produces and
writes with him all the time mya close friend of mine who I
write with a lot.
His close friend is that personthat pretty much like guided
sean forward, which is cool towitness things like that and
people helping each other asopposed to you know, bring them
(05:27):
down.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Totally, and you and I have discussions a little bit
offline or online rather, about,you know, like trying to go
through some of the struggles ittakes to, you know, help people
.
You know it's like you havesome flack that you get online.
I do, cliff does, you know,everybody gets some flack online
, you know, but it's like thegreater purpose, right, and
that's what something that spoketo me with Sean's you know
(05:50):
message that he put out there islike, look, he was picked,
picked on for this growing upand now it's become such an
asset and a tool to now make adifference for other people,
right.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Yep, and with music, the bullying kind of gets worse
the further you go and thelonger you do this for.
So, even before I go back tothe beginning, I feel like the
bullying and everything is atits worst right now for me,
(06:20):
believe it or not, as I get morestreams, more streams, get more
followers, the more eyes on you, the more things people have to
say, and it almost doesn't makesense, because, wow, I'm
growing so much, people arereceiving my music so much, they
must hate me.
It doesn't make sense, though,because you're growing, so do
they act?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
they're probably like I don't like you, and they get
you out, and then they put on uh, your song, yeah because they
had to hear it or see, get youout, and then they put on your
song yeah, because they had tohear it or see you, and so
that's within their algorithmtoo.
Their social media sources areno dummies.
Cliff and I were on an episodethese really great ladies from
(07:00):
England, strong T yeah and theywere asking about bullies online
, and we're talking about it,and I do think there's two
places that cowards dwell thesedays and it's behind the wheel
of their car and online, andespecially you and I were
talking before the episode.
It's like oh, it's always theperson online that has no
profile, no picture.
You know, all they want to dois post some hate, you know, and
(07:22):
then we have no idea who theyare.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
So yeah, a few months ago, on one of my songs I
posted myself, I was a view ofManhattan behind me and I was
just singing my song.
I pretty much just try to singmy chorus of songs wherever I
can at any given moment, becausethat's just content to post.
You know, content isn't just aflyer anymore or a billboard of
(07:46):
what you did as an accolade.
It's actually like a net in theocean.
So each time you post thatchorus it could reach a hundred
thousand new people.
So, yes, I'm going to post mycourse a hundred times and if
you don't like that, that's fine.
What's going to happen isyou're going to enjoy the song
and we're going to have a greattime at the concerts.
That's the point of all of it.
But anyway, I was posting thevideo of me singing my chorus.
(08:10):
Someone wrote I hate you.
I really hope you kill yourselfeventually, and I was like
thank you.
Another comment was and thetext on it said one day I'm
going to play Madison SquareGarden.
This is where I'm from, newYork City.
That's the dream.
(08:30):
I've seen people go from theirrooms to the garden.
I've witnessed it.
It's possible.
I'm growing, I've toured, I'vedone things most musicians never
do and I'm so grateful so it ispossible.
So I will do those things.
I've played shows like that andfor people to comment that is
(08:54):
so extreme and they do hidebehind the keyboard because it's
a private profile with nopicture but it even stems back
to just people hiding and alsosometimes they don't even hide,
if you want another bully story.
I was walking with my girlfriend.
We're just walking in the parkin Jersey.
(09:15):
This was a couple of months ago.
These kids like 10 to 12 yearsold they had to be middle school
are walking up to us, cursingus out, going.
You effing emo losers, losers.
Look at you.
Are you goth?
You?
Both of you are losers.
I'm like I'm a grown man andshe's a grown woman and you're a
(09:41):
child.
Like cursing me out to my face.
I was like if this was the 90s,it would go to that violence
route with people, becausethings are crazy back then.
But like now, it's like withall the acceptance we need,
there were kids making fun of meand also my girlfriend to our
(10:02):
faces.
I didn't know what to do.
I looked at her and I was likewhat do we do here?
These are children.
I can't like attack them oryell at them or scream at them.
All I need to do is then fillme and put me on their tiktok
and then my career is over.
But it's really insane how Iwill post things to online.
(10:24):
Speaking of keyboard warriors, Irecently did a quick Taylor
Swift cover on my Tik TOK.
Right, I love Taylor Swift.
She was picked on off and she'spicked on even now and has to
rerecord her whole catalog.
So it's a scary industry.
Her fans are often picked on alot of them but her fan base and
(10:44):
I bet you they might evenattack me for this and I hope
you don't edit it incorrectlybut their fan base attacks me If
I cover her, even if it soundsgreat or not.
It doesn't matter.
You're covering their savior.
You're not allowed and theyberated me.
I'm talking about taggingpeople saying we need this taken
(11:08):
down.
Can you do me a favor?
Never sing again.
You're horrible.
You're a loser.
I never want to listen toTaylor Swift again because of
you.
You're not allowed to listen toTaylor Swift.
Stop it.
I hate you.
Like it got thousands of viewsand comments of just hating on
me because other people did itand they run with it, but it's
(11:31):
only those fans doing it and itand it's really weird because
even another musician I knowgoes throw back to 2015, when
you were allowed to cover TaylorSwift before getting attacked.
So even they see it and Iclicked most of the profiles
that are doing it.
It's young boys, girls, they,them, whatever community you
(11:56):
belong to, posting videos ofthem crying that they were
attacked at school.
And then you're attacking mewhen my music is literally made
for us just to sing alongtogether and get along my song,
tommy Pickles, named after TommyPickles from the Rugrats.
He's a leader.
I literally say, together, wecould lift each other because we
(12:17):
all deserve a chance.
All my music is to push forward.
I don't even make many lovesongs.
It's all about achieving whatyou want, whether it's a goal,
finding love, whatever, if youhave a goal, a dream, it's that
you could do it, no matter what.
It's not impossible.
That's the point of my music.
You tell me right now, cliff,you want to be an astronaut?
(12:40):
I'm going to say, okay, I, I'mnot going to be fazed.
Or if you tell me after thisepisode, you're not going to
host with Cliff anymore and youwant to be a scuba diver, go
ahead.
Or you want to be a tennisplayer?
Sure, I don't even question it,but I don't know.
(13:02):
People online are attacking meand other people, especially
those who are attacked, and Icomment back, even saying hey, I
looked at your profile.
There's a video of you cryingthat you were picked on today.
My music is about acceptance ofthat and I hope you find it in
(13:23):
you to understand what I'msaying.
Go f yourself.
No, I don't, I want to.
And I'm like wow, what?
So that's your response.
Yeah, and I was like I'm sayingand then someone else will like
I've been getting a lot ofhappiness lately and my
following actually doubled inthe last like month and a half
on tiktok and social media.
(13:43):
Everything's just going morerapidly right now and it's
really amazing.
I made the radio for the firsttime this month, which has been
super exciting.
But the point is I don't focuson the hate, but I get confused
by it and I tend to focus on itinadvertently because I'm like
(14:05):
how are they so quick to attackwhen I'm there?
Most songs on radio aboutgetting wasted, underage kids
doing things like it's veryconfusing time.
I feel like I sound old when Isay I don't get the new
generation.
They're singing about beingwasted.
(14:25):
And they're 17, they're 16.
This is major labels, adultspromoting children under
influence of stuff and that theywon't find love, that they want
to kill themselves, and allthis extreme things.
But I say something and I'm toldfrom people.
(14:47):
I've had people even close tome tell me your positivity is
toxic.
All you do is push forward.
Life isn't like that.
You need to get over it.
You're not happy, you're not,I'm like well, yeah, I know I'm
not happy.
I don't hide that.
I try really hard to be happyand I push positivity because I
don't want people to feel how Ido and if I could help that for
(15:08):
them, great.
But for you to tell me I'mliving in this happiness as a
false thing, or they tell meyou're choosing depression and
people who are said choose thatand you're, you're being happy
because it's a front, it's fake,it's just like what?
What will please people?
And I'm you can't.
(15:28):
You gotta take care of yourselfand the people around you and
that'll spread that kindness towhere it needs to go and not to
keep this as a run-onconversation.
But it reminds me of cliff'sepisode where he said he can't
be on the bus with everyone andprotect them when they're
getting picked on Like you justcan't be on every bus protecting
(15:51):
every kid on the way to school.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Drag me back to like where where music came in and
like younger years kind of stuff.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
I didn't start music until well into high school, so
we got to get there first, butbefore that I always felt like I
did not fit in whatsoever.
I was too hyper aware ofeverything I was.
I still don't understand itbecause I question it right now
and I don't.
(16:21):
I tried to get medical help,like therapy, all that, and it
hasn't been working great for mefor years now.
But I'm trying.
But anyway, I'd be five yearsold, six years old, first grade.
Why are we sitting in lineslike in the classroom?
Why are we all in a uniform?
What?
What is all of this like?
(16:43):
Really questioning reality,reality, very woke, as you would
say, and I wasn't aware of whatI was doing.
I was just thinking I was weirdand I would question why do we
line up as boys and girls Like,what is all of this?
It's confusing to me thestructure.
Who created the school system?
(17:04):
Why is a five-year-old thinkingthis?
My parents weren't theseconspiracy theorists.
They were really cool.
They still are.
They introduced me to music andeverything.
But anyway, I'd be really young.
Not knowing anything Feltreally weird my whole life.
So even even in kindergarten,the one thing I had was music.
(17:25):
My parents introduced me tomusic since I was born Def
Leppard, bon Jovi, all 80s music, brian Adams, anything they
just love music.
So that's one thing I got alongwith everyone about.
I could talk about music and Idid sports.
I did very typical thing of a90s kid into the 2000s you play
(17:47):
sports, you do that whatever itwas fun.
I loved it.
But there was no music in mymiddle school to play, so no one
I knew except one friend reallyplayed an instrument or sang.
That wasn't a thing.
I always thought I was ahorrible singer because no one
in my family could sing well andI could hear it.
I didn't sing and say, wow, I'mamazing, I knew I didn't sound
(18:10):
good, I could just hear it andthat's part of being a producer.
And I didn't know I wasproducing and well, this is
going to lead into it.
I'd be in the car seat goingdad, do you hear that the guitar
is only in the left ear?
And then his vocal moved andthen the drums I could hear.
Each hit is panned a little andI wasn't saying panning because
(18:33):
I didn't know that term yet,but it's in the left ear and
that cymbal's in the right earand the backup vocals are like
further away, and then I woulddo this my whole life and
dissect songs, and I didn't knowpeople made a living doing this
.
I didn't know you can grow upto be a musician for a living.
I didn't know that was real.
I thought you're kind of bornEddie Van Halen.
(18:55):
I thought that's it.
I didn't know you work for it.
That wasn't.
That's a fantasy world, youknow you don't see that.
So then remember some bullystories that I want to talk
about, of how you need to be aleader when you're young and I
found that out early back inmiddle school.
(19:15):
During these days, I rememberone specific incident that we
had, like the DARE program, youknow, teaching us about drugs
and substances and stay awayfrom them, and everyone picked
pins at the end of the day andthis stays in my head.
I'll never forget this you pickpins and everyone thought it
(19:36):
was cool, you know, to roll upstraws and pretend they look
like cigarettes and stuff, causeit was the nineties, you know,
and there was candy cigarettesback then.
So I was like that's stupid,because cigarettes give you
cancer and that will kill you.
So why would you do that?
That's how my brain processedit and I chose the say no to
(19:59):
smoking pin and I was the onlyperson.
Everyone chose the same onebecause it was like cool looking
, everyone wanted it.
And I really went up to thefront of the room and picked the
different one.
The whole class made fun of meI don't know why to this day and
like, as I'm choosing it,they're like why did you pick
(20:19):
that one?
And yeah, it sounds silly, butthat stuck with me, cause then
we went to lunch and recess andthey were making fun of me.
They're like, look at the pinon your shirt, it doesn't look
like ours.
And that moment was a bigmoment for me, cause I felt
horrible.
I, you know I went home likewhy am I different?
(20:41):
Why did I choose that one?
And I felt horrible, you know.
I went home like why am Idifferent?
Why did I choose that one?
And I felt like why didn't Ijust choose the other one?
I didn't want that other one, Iwanted the pin I wanted, and
that's okay, yeah, but theyreally made me feel weird and
different because I just chose adifferent pin.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
That's actually, that's a sign of a really strong
mind.
You know, to have that outsideof the crowd mind at a young age
, it's actually, I think, awonderful thing, because when we
get older, yeah, when we getolder especially it's like it's
hard to break those things.
Actually, I think it's harderwhen you're younger and so and
(21:19):
that's the key to so much thatgoes on these days is people
just jump on board witheverybody else, right?
People are afraid to voicetheir own opinions, people are
afraid to stand up to otherpeople.
I mean, we were asked on thatlast podcast.
It's like not to go too morbid,but that woman that was stabbed
to death in front of like 30people and it's like the
behavior that you're exhibitingby choosing the different pin to
(21:41):
me is outside the sheepmentality and it's important,
it's heroic, in my opinion.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Thank you and I appreciate that, and I want
everyone to feel like you couldchoose what you want and do what
you want.
And there's just so many timesI felt pointed out like, oh, you
do this, or did you know Lennydoes this.
Why are you pointing me out?
What did I do?
And now I'm realizing I wasjust a threat to everybody for
(22:09):
being a leader and everyone'sscared of other people having
power.
And it's not about power,though.
I'm just making music, I'm justspeaking my opinion.
For some reason, people arethreatened by other people and I
don't understand.
I believe, with music orwhatever success there is out
(22:30):
there, there's enough foreverybody.
I'm not the only one that couldbecome successful in music.
Both of you could have hits.
I could have hits justintimberlake and Justin.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Timberlake and Shawn Mendes, cliff for sure.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Hey, I'm going to tune the studio.
We'll make some songs.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I'm actually making a reality for.
Tyler.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
No, but for real.
I've recorded people thatactually were tone deaf, meaning
they cannot carry a tune whenthey sing.
If they're singing happybirthday for those who don't
know, they'll be literally goinghappy birthday to you and they
won't know it's off Like they'llhave no idea.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
When we talk about Hollywood, like I feel like
Hollywood's been doing a decentjob, like they always show the
bully kid.
That's not cool, right, it'snot cool to be the bully kid.
We show that in Hollywood allthe time, right?
But then you just brought upthat and that, actually it gave
me a thought.
It's like American Idol.
You're right, they pick on thepeople, right?
We have a lot of shows wherewe're producing bully behavior
(23:31):
basically.
So I guess it's not as clear.
As you know, it goes pastHollywood, you know, it's like
we're basically teaching people.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Yeah, the contracts say they could use your image
and likeliness for humor to mockyou.
It says it that they can mockyou.
Someone I know is on AmericanIdol.
They did a thing where he wentover yeah, katy Perry's one of
the judges.
He went over, shook all those,all their hands, and the way
they cut it she droppedsomething.
I believe I forget the exactstory story, but something
happened where she looked likedisgusted for some reason, so
(24:05):
they made it look like when heshook her hand she was disgusted
because he was like this rockerand didn't look like the
typical person.
And after they made her saidlike I need hand sanitizer and
then they literally made themlook like he was a gross person.
Yeah, and then, like they evencut it to the point where they
were talking to him going do you?
(24:25):
What kind of singing do you do?
All kinds you sing?
Do you scream?
Can you growl?
And so then he did all threeand when they cut it, they go
could you sing us a song?
And they cut it to the and theywere like what's wrong with you
?
And they made him look likereally horrible and he tried
suing and like posted like Ididn't.
This isn't what happened, and Inever saw him pursue music
(24:49):
after that and he was awesome.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Maybe you're actually answering my question, but I'd
be curious.
So, is American Idol good forthe world or is it bad for the
world?
Is it good for musicians or isit bad for musicians?
Speaker 5 (25:01):
If Ryan Seacrest would like to have me on his
morning show.
American idol is such an amazingshow yeah and if it's for your
mental health and your image, Isay be very careful, because I
don't know how great it is then,because someone could take you
and do anything to you and makeyou look like anything.
There's all this technologywith ai that could change what
(25:22):
you say and my voice and youcould cut it up.
I think it's great in the sensethat, yes, it can make
opportunity.
You could be seen, you could beheard, but with anything, even
if you're not an American Idol,a record label, a manager,
anyone.
If this wasn't a bully podcast,you two could even cut this up
(25:42):
and make me look horrible withwhat I say, and so I think
American Idol can be amazing foryou, but truthfully, I wouldn't
go on there myself.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, what do you think?
Because you used to get clippedand stuff all the time out of
context.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I'll say Len lenny, you're absolutely amazing
because life's about how wethink about things.
You know like there's risk andreward to everything that we do
and ultimately, everyone wantsthe highest reward.
Yeah, you know, even when abully's bullying, they want some
sort of reward.
(26:19):
Oh, I'm like everybody else.
You were completely different.
Yeah, you thought differentlyand you did different things
yeah and eventually we get intothis mold where we realize, oh
crap, I gotta be different to beseen like yeah, so, so it's
like it's like all right,everybody be like everybody else
yeah oh crap, I gotta bedifferent so that I could
(26:42):
actually show up and give valueto the world and be like yeah
exactly it'sso yeah, yeah, and I look at it
and I go, okay, I get the game.
The game is there's light andthere's darkness, yeah, and in
the darkest times, you get tosee the yeah, you get to, you
get to see the stars, you get tosee the stars.
(27:03):
What does everyone want to be astar?
Everyone wants to be a star.
But can you be a star in thedarkness?
And with what you're doing,lenny?
You, you want to shine light onpeople and sometimes, like I
I've learned myself, you know,I'm a 42 year old man now Some
(27:24):
people don't want that, even alittle bit.
Yeah, they'll claim that theywant it and you know what.
That's okay.
Yeah.
Like.
At one time I thought like, oh,it's so unfortunate.
There is no unfortunate,there's just fortunate.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
Yeah, it's unfortunate when you see them in
pain, though, because they doput themselves in pain, and
that's what's unfortunate,because people could avoid
certain things, and theirbehaviors do lead to destructive
behaviors.
But we can only help people somuch, and they are choosing
their path.
That's the thing.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
What what's so cool and they choose what's so cool
pain is a piece of the game yeahpain is a piece of the game.
When, so, I was an overweightkid and I lost my weight, there
was pain.
It was different, and I and Irealized like, oh, oh, this is
just one big game at the end ofthe day, we can't see hindsight
(28:19):
2020, and so when we start you,we can literally reframe our
past, and in reframing our past,we create a new future yeah and
I was just like holy crap, thisis insane.
And so, lenny, you're, you'regreat and that's it.
You're great.
You don't have to explain like,oh well, I did this and I did
(28:42):
this and I'm trying to be happy.
No, you're, you're going to behappy.
Sometimes you're going to benot so happy.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Sometimes you're going to have a story to tell,
and the story wouldn't begetting good without the pain,
right?
No, and I think about this allthe time.
What's the better feeling?
Is it pressure or pleasure, orrelief from pain?
Speaker 3 (29:00):
yeah, and I think usually it's relief from pain,
because you don't know if you'rejust in pleasure, sure, but you
come out of the womb eating icecream right away exactly.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
You don't get paid in music.
You don't get paid in music tofurther down the road.
Yeah, that relieves the painbecause the rest is pleasure, in
a way, and the most reward iswhen I'm like oh, I bought a
meal.
Yeah, and financial strugglesare arguably one of the biggest
(29:30):
struggles in the world.
I would say so, yeah, therelief of pain of your success
or anything you do, the reliefof pain whether you become a new
person or your transformationof your body leads you somewhere
.
Yeah, it's a relief of pain.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
It is, and sometimes you can't have that without the
pain right yeah and so and andlike who?
Oprah's never gonna interviewyou if you haven't been through
enough things to make a story soI can.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
I don't want to have you unless you don't have a
crazy story.
Oh yeah, I tell people all thetime.
It's like these awful thingshappen to you.
Just overcome to make a story.
American Idol won't have youunless you don't have a crazy
story.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Oh yeah, I tell people all the time it's like
these awful things happen to you.
Just overcome them.
It's part of your story.
That's the way you have tothink about it.
The story would be no good ifeverything went perfect.
You know, if everything waspleasure, the story wouldn't be
any good, right, and youcouldn't.
So the fact that you'veovercome you know the adversity
of these, being different as akid, which I applaud you for
(30:23):
it's.
It's hard to be different inthis world Now, dealing with the
naysayers online every time youwant to sing and share that and
you have to deal with them.
I mean, these are the thingsthat is going to lead you to
your success and, like we talkedabout online, it's like you
just got to focus on the peoplethat it is important for Right.
The message is for right, onthe people that it is important
for right.
The message is for right.
(30:43):
The message is not maybe it's alittle, for I mean, hurt people
, hurt people.
It's a little bit for them, butit's more so.
It's like that person out theresitting in the corner that's
siloing right.
That just needed to hear thatmessage today.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
Correct.
And you know it all started forme to be a leader, truthfully,
when I was three.
My I have two brothers and oneof them was diagnosed, is
diagnosed with autism.
So at three years old, myparents, who were only 26 at the
(31:15):
time, are telling me you knowwell, I was six then and they
were, you know three, 29 then,which is still insanely young to
have two kids and one'sdiagnosed with autism.
And they said you have to dowell in school.
You got to take care of yourbrother if anything happened to
us.
So here I am, four years old,five, six years old.
Whatever going, I have to getstraight A's.
(31:36):
If I don't get straight A's, myautistic brother is going to be
in a home alone as an old man.
That was my thought from fiveyears old.
So everything I did, I cannotdrink, I cannot smoke, I cannot
get in trouble in school.
I've never got detention.
I've never failed a class.
I've failed tests.
That's natural.
(31:56):
But I was a straight A student.
My parents were very hard on mefor my grades.
If it was under a 90, I'm introuble.
I reached the point where I wasdisciplining myself first,
second grade.
I remember I was spellingthings wrong, like simple things
.
It was first grade spellingtest and I got I think I got a
(32:19):
63 on this test reading,comprehension and spelling thing
.
I went home, unplugged my supernintendo and didn't play for
two weeks because I said I don'tdeserve it, because I'm I'm
failing my family and that comesfrom a little bit of pressure
from my parents, truthfully, andit's because my father didn't
(32:44):
have a father and his mother wasnot a mother figure, so he had
0% parenting, so he 200%-ed meand that was actually kind of
detrimental to me.
But we're working on things.
I'm a workaholic.
Because of it I work so hard, Iwork myself to the ground to
take care of people and I'veneglected myself for years, up
(33:09):
until now even and it's a bigissue I'm dealing with I want to
ask you an interesting question, um what's your big dream?
Speaker 3 (33:20):
What do you want to accomplish?
Speaker 5 (33:22):
I'm grateful that I do music full time.
I'm sitting in my room rightnow with my dinosaur bed sheets
right there, as you could see,having a great time.
I make music right here.
My songs made the radio.
I work for people.
I listened to my whole life.
I feel like I made it.
I don't have a Lambo yet.
(33:42):
Do I want one?
Yeah, I do.
They're cool, they're fast,they're fun.
I can't lie.
I can't lie.
It's fun.
Does that define who I am?
No, I don't want to be popular.
I really don't, because thatmeans I got to deal with talking
to more people and receivingmore of a headache because
people want to just come at me.
Now, the more I grow, they wantliterally people I was close
(34:05):
with.
Oh, you're having some success.
You don't talk to me anymore.
What?
Yeah, where is this coming from?
And I don't want to be popular.
Uh, it's just part of theterritory.
I just I will play arenas andstadiums and give people a place
to just sing and dance and havea good time, and you will get
(34:28):
the messages you need from mymusic.
They're often lessons,positivity and how you apply
them to you.
I hope it lets you say I'mgoing to do this.
I'm going to do that.
It doesn't matter what you wantto do.
I hope that's what my musicdoes for you.
So the big goal and dream is tojust elevate what I've already
(34:48):
done.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
It's like I watched a documentary on the yacht racing
and these guys came out ofAustralia and the Americans were
always winning.
Heavily financed boat Alwayswon Far and away.
And then here comes these guys,and the guy was an engineer
that built the boat from adifferent industry.
I don't recall what he builtthis fin underneath the boat
that had never been heard of,and that boat destroyed every
(35:10):
other boat.
And it's literally because hecame in with a different mindset
, a different talent, adifferent idea of what it could
be.
And I think we're all too oftenwilling to put people in this
box, right, oh yeah, you know,and I think we're all too often
willing to put people in thisbox, right, oh yeah, and it's
the people that finally, like,think like you.
And you could see, like earlyon, that lenny, you know, wasn't
, he was thinking outside thebox way long time ago yeah so I
(35:30):
could see that.
Um, you know how that would leadto.
You know you reinventing somethings, and what I love about
what you're saying too.
Um, have you seen the newarnold documentary?
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I started it last night what's the first episode?
Last night, yeah.
So as soon as it started I waslike I'm arnold, I'm literally
arnold, I didn't know, and whenI'm at the gym I actually do
arnold workouts.
I know I'm not that big, but Iactually go to the gym every day
and I have trouble gaining mass.
We could talk about that afterYou'll get there.
I cannot gain.
(36:02):
But yes, go on, arnold, love it.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I mean like it's so, so amazing.
A couple of key things, butmostly I want to key in on what
Lenny said.
It's like Arnold says basically, stay busy, that's his key, and
be useful, that's his phrase.
You know.
Stay, stay busy and be useful.
That was this key to happiness.
And Lenny's saying when he's onstage he thinks of nothing else
in the world.
And so I think a lot of peoplethat are lost in this misery
(36:25):
they're not staying busy enough,they're not staying busy enough
on what they're interested in.
And the other key take this is alittle bit off topic for Arnold
he knew, I think knowing whatyou want is a superpower, right?
Arnold knew at 10 years old hewanted to be a bodybuilder, he
wanted to be a movie star.
The governor thing came later,but he knew he wanted those
things and if you can aligneverything in your life to that,
(36:47):
that's a superpower.
So the sooner you can kind offigure that out.
Or Lenny found it out earlywith music, you know it's like I
mean that's.
I mean that was a huge takeawayfor me with Arnold.
That's why he's so successful.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
That and his work ethic.
He said he didn't fit in.
He's like I don't fit.
He's like why don't I fit in?
And that's something I'vewritten down that I kind of
touched upon.
But I keep relating to cliff'sepisode because it's the last
one I heard.
Actually, I listened to a fewof them and, um, but even you
were saying like belongingsomewhere, just fitting in, and
to this day, I I still don'tfeel like I fit in.
(37:23):
As I grow and I'm findingpeople who relate to my music.
Yes, those are the people who Ifit with, but it's taking a
really long time.
And if you want me to answer,do I feel like I fit in?
No, I feel out.
Here in Los Angeles I don'treally have friends.
I don't go out, I'm only outfor business.
All I do is my work.
(37:44):
When I was working before westarted this, I'm working all
day after.
I'm up from 8 am or earlierpast 3 to 4 am working.
I'm a workaholic and it's notgreat because it's bad for my
health.
I've ended up in the hospitalmultiple times and I don't want
(38:09):
to blame anything, but it'sbecause of all the bullying,
being told how much I have towork, that you can't do this and
it requires a lot of work formusic or anything you're
pursuing to really make it grow.
It takes so much work and I'vebeen in the hospital.
Grow it takes so much work andI've been in the hospital.
I've collapsed multiple times,I've been on IVs, all that stuff
(38:31):
, because I'm malnourished.
I got down to maybe like 120something pounds at one point
and it was because I wasn'teating and I didn't even realize
because I was obsessing onmaking music and pushing forward
and a song I have coming out ina few days that, will you know,
will be out maybe when thisairs.
I'm unsure when it will.
But anyway, I have a song onMonday.
I have a song called.
(38:51):
I'll just say this I have asong called the Messiah Complex.
That is about all of this, anda Messiah Complex is someone who
feels like it's up to them tosave the world.
And that is not going to happenand that is not a negative or
cynical take, because my wholething is to save the world and
(39:14):
I'm telling you, the way it canbe done is if you impact those
close to you, because you'regoing to burn yourself out.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
You can't help anybody until you take care of
yourself right?
That's key number one.
You know it's like you have tobe in a good place physically.
I mean obsessive behaviortowards a goal, I mean that's
what's going to get you there.
But you have to, like, stillhave some balance, enough that
your body still gets you there.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
You know the forest and the trees.
The forest and our stories aredefined by us taking action in
the story.
You know, like, just as you say, like I was bedridden for 10
days as an entrepreneur and Iwas so good with my time and
(40:01):
timing, like I knew that I couldsleep for four hours on a
regular basis and that's what Idid.
I timed it perfectly.
What I didn't realize was mykid could get sick and that four
hours I would normally get.
I didn't get and it caught upto me and it beat the crap out
of me.
Um, and I did like I didn'teven think of myself as a
(40:24):
perfectionist, because I'mlistening to you and I'm hearing
perfectionist, perfectionist,perfectionist.
There's a bunch of differentways to go after being a
perfectionist and it's like,okay, where, what inch?
Where can I change things?
Where can I?
We all like influencing peopleLike that's the, that's what
bully this is about isinfluencing people to be
(40:45):
something different, to besomething greater, to be
something more, and to remindothers who are bullied that they
have something different, to besomething greater, to be
something more.
And to remind others who arebullied that they have something
different, they have somethingspecial, they have something
more.
And as we go through thatprocess, sometimes we have to
point the mirror to ourselvesand say am I standing for what
(41:05):
I'm telling others to stand for?
And sometimes we're not.
But we have to go through ourjourney in order to understand
that too.
Beat ourselves up, putourselves in a gown and say hey,
I'm going to sing about thisbecause this sucks.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:18):
And that's why I took the mindset of people saying
you're always positive.
I was like you know what?
I need to show them some of thereal stuff of how I got to this
mindset, because I wasn'talways like this, like, yeah, I
got to this mindset because Iwasn't always like this, like,
yeah, you can do it.
I was like I didn't do it yet,so I don't know if you can do it
.
And just being able to affordrent, food, basic living off of
(41:46):
music, to me that's success.
You know, like do I have a job?
Yeah, it's mixing music forpeople.
I'm my boss.
If I don't want to work today,I don't have to.
I've been doing that for a fewyears.
I'm so grateful for that and Iwant everyone who wants to do
that to be able to be their ownboss.
But it takes so much work and Ineed to show what happened
during that, because the journeyisn't just putting the work and
then it all works Like no,you're going to fail and you're
(42:08):
going to collapse and you'regoing to be on the brink of who
knows what.
You don't know.
It's really hard All of this toyou know, really make it happen
.
But people tell me oh, now theytell me you're so lucky what
you're doing.
I wish I could do what you didand I say you know what you did
in your 20s.
You had a life and I have nomemories of my twenties.
(42:32):
I don't remember my teenageyears.
I didn't go out and party.
I didn't get to sneak out andget in trouble.
I didn't get to get weight.
I've never blacked out before.
I didn't even get to do thatstuff.
I never.
I never taking drugs Like I'mnot.
I can't because if I overdoseand who's gonna watch my brother
?
That's why I never did thisstuff and that mindset and
(42:53):
that's kind of extreme.
But you know what it's, who Iam.
I've accepted it.
I'm learning balance now.
Maybe everything costssomething.
It does everything awesome.
A lot of people tell me you'recynical the way you talk.
You say it's a bad world we'rein, but you just need to go
about your life and worry aboutyourself.
There's a difference betweenfocusing on yourself to further
(43:14):
yourself and be healthy and justforget everyone else.
This ain't about.
It's about you only Likethere's a.
That's a thing.
You know there's a fine lineand I don't know.
It's tough.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
You have to have balance in life.
There's no doubt it's somethingI didn't learn easy.
It took a long time to learn it.
You know balance.
You know I'm even still tryingto do that now.
And then you have to realizeeverything costs something.
You know, to get what you wantin life, it does cost, you know
something.
It costs your time, it costsyour health.
You know, to some extent.
I mean, running a business isn'tmuch different than being in
(43:49):
music.
You know it's like it's a lotof work, it's a lot harder than
people think it's.
You know it's.
It's stressful all the time.
You know like it doesn't, itnever goes away.
And same with you know musicyou're, you know, working for
yourself in the music industry.
But I don't think we wouldthink about working in the micro
enough, and that's what I tryto think about these days.
It doesn't matter if 400,000people see bully this.
(44:10):
It matters if one person seesbully this and that one person
is affected from it.
Right, if we think aboutworking in the micro, then it's
more achievable, right?
And then if we happen to hit400,000 people, then of course
that is wonderful, you know.
But for now we work on the one.
Speaker 5 (44:27):
Exactly Every time I post, I've mentioned, it's a net
into the internet ocean.
Now it's not just affect ahundred thousand people, like
we're saying, if that one personis affected by that one post.
If one person hears thisepisode and goes and tells one
person, then it's going to growone, two, three, the four, four,
the eight.
Then it's going to grow one,two, three, four, four, eight,
(44:49):
eight, 16.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
But you have to do it on a micro level.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
You have to Each song I release.
I can't think it's just goingto be a hit.
If four people like it, I thinkeight people might like the
next one.
And according to the statisticsof how I grow and how business
is growing, the numbers show youwhen it starts going.
It goes like this and getssteeper and steeper and steeper
because it'll go.
(45:14):
But it doesn't start until thatfirst little bit starts going.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
And it is that micro level and and everything has a
tipping point, right.
Every things work gradually atfirst, but then they'll
eventually hit a tipping point.
So with music, all of a suddenit's going to explode, right so?
And you don't know when that'sgoing to come.
Speaker 5 (45:32):
You don't know, everyone's journey is different
and it could be when you're 16.
It could be when you're 45.
It could be when you're 60.
It doesn't matter.
There's no rules to life andpeople need to figure that out
too.
There's laws, but there aren'treally rules and you need to
understand you can do anythingyou want.
(45:52):
I feel like we're finallyseeing that and, you know, I
think there's sort ofgenerational trauma finally
being broken to the newgeneration saying like you can
pursue what you want, you can dowhat you want.
Because it used to be.
You know, go to school, getmarried, have kids, work.
You know, it was very oldmindset and now people are doing
(46:14):
what they want.
But it does take a lot morework to do what you want and be
your own boss than to just get anine to five job.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, people don't realize how much I do it all.
Speaker 5 (46:28):
I do it all from morning till night and makes it
hard to eat, makes it hard tobalance a relationship.
I didn't get to the go to thegym yesterday because I was just
too busy Like I could not gothere and if I don't do it the
posting will slow down and thenmy growth just stops.
It really does.
(46:48):
It's about consistency.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
And I can't get posting done, though, if you
don't eat.
Speaker 5 (46:55):
I know, I know you gotta sleep, so I feel like you
get zero posts done if you're inthe hospital.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
So make sure you eat and make sure you sleep.
Speaker 5 (47:01):
Exactly, and it's just insane though it's so hard
and the amount of work that goesinto it and it the thing that
kind of breaks my heart the mostis when people come up to me
and they go you play instruments.
I'm like I'm every instrumenton.
I was like there are songs youlisten to that you're hearing me
and you don't even know it.
(47:22):
And like I post about it a lotand it still doesn't reach
people.
There are people who I've grownup with going oh, you do music.
I was like how, like you'vebeen following me for 15 years
on facebook and you don't see itstill.
Well, and that's how hard it isto reach people and, um, but
(47:43):
yeah, we have to take care ofourselves because our body is a
temple and anything and one day,day at a time right.
It is one day at a time.
You can think of the future,and I was wrapped up in the
future since a little kid, andI'm always wrapped in the future
and I'm working on that, butyou really could only take care
of right now and be mindful andbe in the moment, and I struggle
(48:06):
with that.
I calculate every minute.
If I'm doing this, this isgoing to take this long.
I even stare at the counterright now.
Hour two minutes.
It is 1146 here.
I have this to do, this to do.
I calculate every second.
It's obsessive and I don't likeit honestly.
I wish I could change a little,and it's hard, though, though,
(48:28):
and with everyone bullying andpushing you, saying you can't do
it.
That makes me want to stay upan extra hour, though, and prove
people wrong, and provingpeople wrong shouldn't be your
motive to make it, but sometimesit does feel good when you're
like I mean, I've used it.
Yeah, you know I mean my life.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I think it's very powerful, if you use it
correctly?
Speaker 1 (48:50):
exactly no, but I.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I agree it shouldn't be to the point where you have
to use it, but if you've beengiven it anyways, why not use it
?
Speaker 5 (48:57):
because I love when they tell me you can't do that
in middle school I want.
So I was gonna bring this up.
Here's a bullying story from myteacher I, when I took tests,
they would tell you at school ohokay, so the essays on this
test are going to be thisparagraph highlighted in your
textbook that literally, likeyou know, it'll say that my hard
(49:20):
drive case, right here, it hasthis red writing on it four
terabyte.
They'll say highlight downthere it says four terabyte,
three year warranty.
We're going to ask thosequestions.
So what I do?
I memorized, memorized it wordfor word, and I would spit it
back on the paper word for word,and I would get accused of
cheating my whole life that Ihave mirrors on my desk showing
(49:43):
me my books on the floor or I'mcopying the other kids, but none
of the other kids had itwritten like me, and it would be
word for word, though like likefull paragraphs.
I know that was told.
I was told I was cheating.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
I know that was a crappy thing to deal with, but
how much of that has led you toyour work ethic today.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
Yeah, a lot of it, because I see things where I can
memorize music faster than alot of people and I could do
these things and your memory isreally important and, you know,
pushing your brain power itreally helped me.
But yeah, I was accused from myteachers that I'm a cheater.
There is no way you could dothat.
You cannot memorize that.
That's a lot to do.
You can't do it.
(50:23):
Maybe I am special then.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
So I'll have a take on it.
You chose to see how you weregoing to see what was told to
you and, um, anyone out therewho's dealing with a problem,
dealing with the challenge?
Yeah, life, life should be acertain way, but it's not always
going to be.
(50:47):
You're going to have people whosay things, who are going to
doubt you, who are going to puta lid on themselves.
It's not always going to be.
You're going to have people whosay things who are going to
doubt you, who are going to puta lid on themselves.
It's really them.
They're not even putting a lidon you.
They're putting a lid onthemselves and saying, well, I
couldn't do this, so youcouldn't do this.
I couldn't do this, so youcouldn't do this.
You popped the lid off.
Someone has to.
Speaker 5 (51:08):
You popped the lid off.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Someone has to you popped the effing lid off.
Speaker 5 (51:11):
Thanks, I'm trying.
I want everyone to know you cando whatever I don't like being
told no, you can do whatever.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
It almost makes me want to do that.
Speaker 5 (51:20):
When you tell me no, I kind of want to be rebellious,
because I never had arebellious face.
I didn't sneak out, I didn't goto parties and get drunk.
I didn't get to parties and getdrunk Like I didn't get to do
that.
I feel like I miss a big partof my youth.
Not that I'm saying the youthshould go out and party, but you
know what I'm getting at.
I didn't do any of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
Absolutely nothing, because look at what you've
created, I agree, and look atwhat you're creating now.
You've missed nothing, yeah.
Yeah, See what's just introuble.
We look back and go, well, Icould have done and I could have
.
And what about?
And there's this over here, Ihave today, I have now, you have
now, tyler has now, and I lookat, pop the lid off.
(52:02):
Yeah.
You know that that's the gamethat I say pop the lid off.
And what was interesting?
I actually didn't talk verymuch.
I wouldn't speak very much.
I actually started speakingmore outside of the UFC, because
people are like Cliff, you gotto get your message out there.
You're a powerhouse.
And I didn't even realize I hada network that I was building
(52:28):
this entire time, even realize Ihad a network that I was
building this entire time.
And as I started speaking moreand more and more and I'm
realizing like, oh crap, I'vebeen so busy being in here
because no one can break thisthing.
No one can break this.
I don't believe in you.
I do believe in you, I kind ofbelieve in you, but now I don't
believe in you because my lifesucks.
(52:49):
I don't believe in you.
And now I do't believe in youbecause my life sucks, I don't
believe in you.
And now I do believe in youbecause you showed that you
could do it.
It doesn't matter, it's all inhere anyway.
And when I go like, okay, I canbe whatever I want to be,
whatever I choose to be ArnoldSchwarzenegger, you, Tyler, what
do I want to be I shut thenoise down.
(53:09):
Yeah.
And then people started you gotto speak more, speak more.
And the more I spoke, the moreI realized holy crap, not only
do I affect others, but theyaffect me.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (53:23):
Yeah, so speaking more yeah, I, I don't like to
speak a lot.
Something I struggled with whenI was in other projects was I
wasn't a singer in otherprojects because I thought I
couldn't sing.
I thought to sing you have tosound like Whitney Houston or
Aretha Franklin or, you know,bruno Mars.
You have to be the best singer.
You don't.
(53:44):
You just have to have emotionand conviction and have
something that relates to peopleand it'll stick with them.
And if you have a more pleasantvoice, that's always a plus.
But the point is I was told youcan't sing.
I remember I was in an oldproject and I don't like to
reflect on this because I don'tlike reflecting on the negative
(54:07):
things, but there was a time Isaid, hey, I want to sing verse
two, and the singer said to mesure, just give me a guitar and
let me make an a-hole of myselfon stage two then.
And I looked at him and saidare you, did you just really
(54:27):
make fun of me that badly, whenwe've been through everything
together, we've toured thecountry, we've made the radio,
we've we literally quit our jobs?
We figured this out togetherand you won't.
Let me say something when I doall the audio and even if I
stunk, I could make anyone soundlike a pop star.
But you made fun of me and yousaid no one will sing if it's
(54:52):
not you.
You said my other bandmatescan't sing.
You refuse it, you will not letit happen.
The same person that told me ifhis boyfriend becomes more
successful before him, he has tobreak up with him.
You are you.
I'm sorry.
You hate yourself.
You literally hate yourself,dude, like you hate yourself.
You literally hate yourself,dude, like you do.
(55:12):
He's one of the most miserablepeople.
I'm not bashing him.
It's not making fun of him.
I am observing.
I was with this person.
They have something to sayabout everyone, everyone, and
they were one of the bestsingers I've ever met and one of
the most talented people I'veever met in my life to this day.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
That's hard.
Speaker 5 (55:35):
And they are arguably the best singer I've ever
recorded.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
I mean you're going places, my friend, and you know
I know there was some not sogreat things growing up, but I
think you're a shining exampleof you know thinking for
yourself working really, reallyhard to get what you want.
Now, I'm glad you mentionedbalance in this, because it's
another thing that I'm likeworking on these days too, and
I'll be the first to say thatlife has to have enough balance,
because you can't help anybodywith you without your help self.
(56:01):
Um um, Cliff, before we wrap uptoday, what do you got?
Speaker 3 (56:06):
Uh, absolutely amazing episode, lenny,
appreciate having you and theamazing insights that you gave
and for the audience.
You know, work ethic, believein yourself, keep moving forward
, and support systems.
You know, the one thing thatshows up consistently is who are
(56:27):
my support systems?
And if we're your supportsystem, just keep watching, keep
pouring into yourself, keepdoing the things that you need
to, and if someone needs asupport system, share this out
with them.
Let them know that it'savailable.
Let's keep shining together.
You know I'm having a lot of funand Lenny said it perfectly
there's people who want tosupport and shine, and there's
(56:49):
people who want to support andshine and there's people who
want to take that shine away.
Uh, so that that's why it'svital that you be a part of the
message.
You'd be a part of that shininglight and and bringing into the
society so that we can all showour greatest potential.
And, uh, tyler, appreciate you,as always, uh, for putting this
(57:09):
together.
You know, you know it's awesomeand it's been growing and
growing and we've been having alot of fun.
Speaker 5 (57:14):
So thank you.
Thank you so much Thanks forhaving me and I really looked
forward to this and I know evenmy answers were scattered.
It probably was hard to get ahold of me.
That's because I'm really doingeverything.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
Thank you so much, man.
Great to have you on Some greatmindset stuff.
And I would say to you, Lenny,make sure you're focusing on the
people as much that are gettinggood things from you as the bad
things, right.
You know, I know we have somehaters and bullies in this world
, but focus on the good people,the people that are coming back
and saying this is how muchyou've helped me, because those
are the people worth it.
Right, and then eventuallyyou'll bring around the bullies
(57:47):
too.
So thanks so much to LennyCliff.
This is the only time we get tohang out anymore.
So, I guess we better come backnext week and do another
episode.
Thanks for tuning in to Bullythis.
We'll see you again.
Appreciate you all.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
You've been listening to Bully this a hero's journey.
The effects on kids that arebullied are many Increased risk
for depression, anxiety, sleepdifficulties, lower grades and
dropping out of school.
It's a real problem and that'swhy we created this show.
We're acutely aware of the pain, shame and damage that bullying
(58:22):
causes and our passion is tohelp kids and families to know
that there is always help, thatthere is always a solution.
We hope you've gotten someuseful information from the show
.
Make sure to like, rate andreview, and we'll be back soon,
but in the meantime, find us onFacebook at Bully this A Hero's
(58:42):
Journey.
Take care and we'll see younext time.
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