March 20, 2024 • 33 mins
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Experience a revelation in your wine appreciation as we, Wine Wonder Boy and Jazzy J, lead you through the terraced vineyards of natural winemaking. This episode is your passport to a world where the Grenache meets Picpoul in a harmonious blend by Sonder Wines, complete with the whimsical dance of sediment and the allure of perfumey aromas. Venture beyond the glass as we debunk the sulfite scare, untangle vegan wine intricacies, and expose the myths that obscure the true essence of our beloved vintages. We even take a moment to address the misjudged grape allergies and celebrate the simple joys of "porch pounders."
As we traverse the sunlit paths of tradition and innovation, you'll savor the distinctions between the hands-on artistry of natural winemakers and their conventional counterparts' precise science. Discover how wild yeasts and minimal intervention craft stories in each bottle, while fining agents and added yeasts in conventional winemaking ensure consistency and clarity. The natural wine community's debate over sulfites uncorks a broader conversation about authenticity and definition. With the effervescent textures of pet-nat wines and the mysteries of malolactic fermentation on our lips, we confront the myth-riddled world of wine head-on, pouring out knowledge that's as intoxicating as the wines we cherish.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bung Pod, welcome back Wine Wonder Boy.
And we got Jazzy J, jazzy.
Hey, what is a bung?
The whole of the barrel iscalled a bung hole.
It's called inside the bunghole is called a bung Wine with
mayhem.
That's what it's about.
Welcome back to the bung pod.
(00:20):
It's your boy, Ian King, akaWine Wonder Boy, and also with
my co-host, Jazzy J, in thebuilding.
Hey, hey, yeah, what up, whatup, what up.
So we have an interestingpodcast today.
We are gonna be talking about alittle bit about natural wines.
And soul fights and soul fights,and also the Breed Cheese
(00:44):
Epidemic.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
As well as some vegan wine.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yes indeed.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
We got this.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, all right, we're precarious.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So what are we open today?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So I'm gonna taste it first.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
This is a natural wine.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's a natural wine.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Let's start there so that our lovely guest Bre Davis
brought to us, so we thought itwould be appropriate to drink
here.
Smells good, I wanna smell it.
No, I wanna smell the cork.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You smell the cork here you go.
I do like the cork.
It's a composite cork.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I definitely think this is my first natural wine
that I'm aware of.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
That you're aware of.
Okay.
I could have possibly had onein the past, but Mm-hmm, you
gotta be careful of pouring thisguy because it has a lot of
sediment at the bottom,tartrates and a bunch of stuff.
So this is 50% Grenache and 50%Pick Pool.
(01:46):
I don't wanna say the produceruntil I smell it and taste it,
just in case I don't like it.
But I have good confidencebecause they make good wine,
beautiful, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Turn that label around.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So this wine is from Saunders Saunders wine's in
Yakima, 50% Grenache, 50% PickPool Blanc, interesting
Co-fermented together, unfind,unfiltered, and they're based
well, actually, they're actuallybased in Grandview.
I think they're taste rooms inYakima.
But yeah, it says produced andbottled by Saunders wines in
(02:30):
Grandview.
Yeah, so I guess they havetheir social media stuff on here
too.
A bland smell.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Just like nothing there, like air it's kinda
perfumey.
I mean, it has a littleperfumey smell to it.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
but yeah, fruit, bright fruit.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
All right, give us the notes.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Here we are Okay.
So we have red and white floralnotes on the nose that I'm
getting Also fruit on the noselike bright strawberry or
watermelon.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I almost get like a gushers.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Got yeah gushers.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, like the red gusher.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Absolutely red gushers and on the palate, okay,
okay, a little bit of stem inthere.
I feel like it's not bitter,but there is a phenolic.
I don't know how to explainherbal.
(03:37):
I guess Some herbal with, likethat, like you were saying, red
gushers, that strawberry, thatwatermelon.
It's interesting.
It's a very light red wine.
It's a chillable red is what itis.
Yes oh, totally summer red.
So it's not quite.
It's not as light as a likeProvence style rosé.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
What's the alcohol on ?
Speaker 1 (04:00):
this Probably like 12 .
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I was gonna say it seems like a perfect one to sit
by 11.5.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
11.5,.
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Seems like a great one to pop open next to the pool
on a hot 105 day.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Poolside zipper here we go Give me four of them A
little porch pounder.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So this is porch pounder for sure, this is a
porch pounder.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I don't think Sam would want to take this to the
dome piece, though, if you knowwhat I mean.
No, probably not.
On our glasses podcast we hadSam on the firefighter.
Sam, his favorite glass was thebottle itself, but there's a
lot of sediment on the bottom ofthis guy.
It's a natural wine.
(04:45):
There's a lot of tartrates onthe bottom.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
It's unfiltered, unfined, so All right, so tell
me about natural wine.
So let's just go into it.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Go into it.
It's time Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's time to rip these band-aids off.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Natural wine.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Because I'm sick of people coming in to my tasting
room.
And talking about natural wines, talking about soul fights,
talking about vegan wine and theone that I have.
I was telling you, earlier thisweek I had someone come in and
say, oh sorry, I'm I can't drinkcab Franck, I'm allergic to it,
(05:25):
but I can have.
I'm like, okay, that's fine,but you're not allergic to cab
Franck, it's how the wine makermakes that wine.
Yeah, it's it's what's insidethat wine.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That's ridiculous part of the recipe.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So just because you had one bad experience or two,
drink some water and eat somefood and then come back to me
and we will go back onto thattopic here shortly.
Yeah, let's go into naturalwines.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Now that I write that off my chest when people say,
like that, they're allergic to acertain great variety, I'm just
like you.
Shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Stop talking.
You need to talk.
Also, I wanted to point outnice sweatshirt.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Oh, thank you.
A new, some bung pod merch here.
Yeah, the nice all of greenhoodie with the bung pod wine
bottle with the sippy straw comeout of it.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
There's anything on the back.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
There's nothing on the back on this, one is just on
the On the left breast.
Yeah, it's dope, dope.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
He does super comfortable.
What else did you get?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I got a black hoodie that has a bottle on it as well.
I got a gift the champagnethroat goat hoodie For either my
girlfriend or friend I don'tknow which one yet so whoever
wants it.
And then I have beanie as well,and also a t-shirt.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
The bung pod t-shirt.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
So also should we shout out to our first purchase.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Our first, our first purchase of merch who purchased
our first merch?
It was your friend Oliviathat's in Las Vegas.
She's in the vague so she.
The.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
LVM she loves it.
Yeah she's been repping.
I think it was the black one.
The black one, yeah, yeah,thank you Olivia.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You're the best love you.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah it's dope of you extra.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Hell yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
All right back to it.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Natty Wines, natty Wines.
So the thing about naturallines is that there's not really
a clear definition of what anatural line is.
The buzzword has been going onthe past I don't know 10, 15
years.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, it makes people feel healthy.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Makes people feel better about themselves, for
sure.
But yeah, natural line does nothave a Clear-cut definition of
what natural line is.
But I will talk about whatpeople think it is, or what most
wine buyers, natural wine bars,what they base their purchasing
(08:16):
off of okay, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Like I said, this is like my first natural line, so
you're gonna take this overbecause I Only know so much here
.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I am ahead and say yes.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I am.
I am an equal opportunity Winedrinker.
I do not discriminate againstany wines unless it's super
faulty or it's just poorwinemaking.
But natural wine I do lovenatural wines as well as I love
conventional.
So I'm a very good Middleground neutral person.
I have a lot of love for bothof them.
(08:51):
So natural wine doesn't have aclear-cut definition, but what
most wine purchasers or winebuyers for a natural wine shop
or bar or restaurant, for thatmatter, with a base their
purchasing off of is Having noadditives in the wine.
So some wine buyers will.
(09:11):
Well, let me backtrack.
I'll rewind.
What can be added to wines andwhy is natural wine a thing?
Yeah, so for conventional winesthis is what you're looking at
you receive the grapes Right,and usually there's also
vineyard approach to naturalwines too.
Not always they want to besustainable, biodynamic or
(09:35):
organic when you get the grapesinto your facility and you make
the wine, for they do not addyeast For natural winemakers.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Because it's a natural fermentation.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah.
So they leave the grapes howthey are and they just let
nature take its place.
So it's a very hands-offapproach.
So you're not adding yeast intothe wine, you're not
inoculating anything.
Conventional winemakers they'lladd the yeast and then it's in
(10:09):
a day or so it'll startfermenting and then you do your
normal Ritual.
You do punchdowns.
If it's red wine, if it's whitewine, just kind of leave it
there.
And Some people add nutrient tothe fermentation to keep it
healthy.
That that could be a productcalled that, or it could be Just
(10:36):
more nitrogen, um nutrient forthe fermentation to keep it
healthy and keep it stable.
So it does not.
It doesn't stop fermenting.
And so what you don't want is adead Fermentation.
Yeah, because that will giveyou a headache and restarting
the fermentation could be.
(10:56):
It is very hard to do.
You can't just add more yeastin.
It's not that I've done itbefore, it is.
It's a difficult process andusually your wine does not come
out the way that you would Wantit to.
When you get the grapes in anddo a healthy ferment, sometimes
there's some a lot of phenolicbitterness at the end and it
(11:18):
just sucks.
So your end product could be alot worse if you didn't add
yeast.
But that being said, I know oneof my friends who's a winemaker.
He's done conventional andnatural fermentations native
fermentations is also called andhe's had the same amount of
(11:42):
stuck fermentations in eitherconventional or native.
So for him he does a lot ofnative ferments now and he's
like, honestly, have had I'vetalked to him about a few times.
He's like I've, I've seen itboth ways.
I don't you know, if they getstuck, it gets stuck at the end
of the day.
So that's yeast.
(12:03):
And then also there's a numberof things people can add to
conventional wines.
Here, if you're talking bulk orif you're bulk wines, like
grocery store wines, they add ashit ton of stuff in there.
You can add oak like powderEssentially, or tannin powder,
which I'm actually allergic to,I guess, because I've had a
(12:25):
number of wines that my my handsswell up a lot or I get
headaches from it, and we'll goover that a little bit later in
this podcast episode.
Instead of as a grocery storething, it's.
It's a short, it's a shortcutto having oak flavor, an oak
(12:46):
profile, within your winewithout Purchasing the expensive
French oak.
So you add oak powder.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yes, and I have heard of this and tannin powder.
And especially with big Well,when they're just producing mass
quantities.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, yeah, I would say like Josh, yeah, josh is one
, Justin, yeah, owned bycoca-cola is another.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And so that's just for bulkwines, for your typical
conventional boutique winerythat's small, about, like you
know, up to 10,000 cases a year.
(13:21):
They're doing the ferments,they're adding nutrient to most
of the ferments as well and andthat's really just a Another
product that has yeast in it andit has nitrogen in it and a
bunch of other chemicals.
That's healthy for a healthyferment to keep it going so it
(13:43):
doesn't get stuck.
Essentially and and usuallypeople will do if you're not a
bulk wine maker, you're puttingyour wine in a barrel for years
and years, taking it out, andthen you're filtering, you're
finding it, finding you'readding bentonite Into the tank.
Bentonite is a clay.
(14:03):
That's the most popular orwidely used finding agents, and
what finding does is really justtake out a lot of Like sediment
so your wine isn't cloudy.
Yes like those reallymicroscopic things that
filtering won't take out, and sothat's really what you're
(14:24):
taking out and then you'readding so to, which is also
sulfur dioxide.
Okay, so fights into your wines.
It's an antioxidant agent, soit keeps the wine fresh.
It keeps it from Staling out,especially in white wines.
That's a big thing in whitewines and they do it in red
wines as well to keep it fresh.
(14:45):
And Then they do a small bumpof SO2 Right before they bottle
so they know it's healthy andit's stable in the bottle before
it goes to distribution orsales, Whether it be
distribution or the tasting room.
So that's conventional Naturalwinemakers.
They won't add yeast, they won'tadd anything.
(15:08):
It's a very hands-off approachand they will still do
punchdowns and those things, butthey're not going to be adding
nutrients into their ferments.
Usually they're not adding.
There is a big debate withnatural winemakers about adding
SO2 or not.
Some don't, some do, Depends.
(15:30):
That's where the definition ofnatural is Little cloudy is in
sulfur.
So I mean sulfur is, SO2 is a.
It is a natural product offermentation in general.
So it'll come, it'll be in yourwine regardless.
But whether you're adding moreor not depends on the winemaker
(15:53):
and depends on what their goalis and what they want to be
doing.
So not all natural wine is madeequally.
If you make good natural winesorry I'll say if you make not
great natural wine it's going totaste oxidized.
It's going to taste like likemost white wines, like
(16:18):
Chardonnay, for example.
I've seen a couple of naturalwinemakers who just let it
oxidize.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And you generally see the natural in whites or reds.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
It's about equal on both.
Usually a winemaker Sparkling,sparkling, for the most part
already is.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, I was going to say you don't really.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Well, actually, no, it's not, Because for method
Champagne, for Champagne, you'readding yeast.
That's part of the process.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
The process.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
You're adding yeah, you're adding more yeast and
you're incorporating it in.
Yeah, Before it goes into thebottle.
So when you make the still wine, you're adding yeast and you're
adding sugar into the bottle,so it does ferment and so I am
not sure.
I mean there's petnat, which ispetalant natural, which is a
(17:14):
natural way to make sparklingwine.
Okay so yeah, so that wouldmake sense.
Okay, I'm a little foggy on theprocess of that because I
haven't done it and I haven'tstudied it in a long time, but
what I think you do is you makeyour wine, whether it be white
(17:36):
or red, usually white or rosécolored and you're waiting till
it's fermenting until dryness,but it's still fermenting and
then you bottle it while it'sstill bubbly in there.
And then you crown, cap it andthat's it.
And so you don't, there's noriddling, there's no dosage, you
(17:57):
just keep it in there and thenyou sell it.
And so that's why a lot ofpetnats, there's a ton of
sediment on the bottom of it,because that's all leaves,
that's all dead yeast cellsfalling to the bottom, because
it finishes fermentation withinbottle already.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
And the day.
You're just kind of hoping thatit ferments in there, because
I've had some bottles whenmaking a method champignoir
process where it didn't actuallyferment in the bottle.
All right, let's take a quickbreak for a second because I got
something I want to tell youguys about.
(18:36):
If you want an extra episodeper week, if you want exclusive
discounts on some dope ass merchthat we got.
Also, if you want to add yourtwo cents, your opinions, your
hot takes or your topic ideas,we want to hear about it.
Go to patreoncom slash officialbung pod and talk to us.
(18:59):
Now let's get back to the show.
All right, guys, we got somenews.
We have an official bung podstore.
We got some merch going.
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(19:20):
We got hoodies, we got handbags, we got stickers, we got
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We got more coming on the way.
So if you like the show and youwant to cop yourself some merch
, go to bung pod dot store.
Now let's get back to the show.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
What kind of shipping it does.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That's a stressful I've had some pet nets that are
extremely bubbly and some thatare just like prickly or fizzy.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I know what you're talking about.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Okay, I'm even learning today, guys.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, and one thing about natural lines for white
lines or for this kind of stylethat we're drinking now, which
is a super light red style, theydon't go through malolactic
fermentation.
So ML, which turns malic acidand lactic acid.
So that's the process thatlarch-sardinase go through,
(20:11):
especially if it's in barrel,where the malic acid is more of
a green apple flavor and thelactic acid is more kind of like
milk or butter.
Milk butter yeah, there's tonsof lactic acid and milk and
butter, both, and all thosedairy products too.
So that's what it's a notreally a fermentation, it's more
just a transformation of acids.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Which makes sense Is really what?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
it is?
Not necessarily a fermentation,because we would textbook know
it Right.
So so with natural lines, a wayto keep it from going to malo
is by adding SO2.
And so with natural lines, youcan also cold stabilize it.
(20:54):
So if you, if you coldstabilize it to like 35 degrees
for like a couple of weeks, it'slikely not going to be going
through that process ofmalolactic.
But then you have to have atank and glycol, etc.
Etc.
A lot of natural winemakers liketo have this philosophy of
winemaking where it's more, it'smore linear to that of making
(21:20):
wine in like Jesus's time, rightwhen they didn't have all this
stuff, you know, didn't have allthe technology and stuff.
So it really depends on who youare and what you're trying to
do.
And then you're also runningthe risk of it spontaneously
fermenting in a bottle and thenquarks popping out randomly.
So there's also that.
But so natural wine doesn'tnecessarily have a clear cut
(21:44):
definition.
Some of my friends who are winebuyers or have a natural wine
bar or wine shop, they will makean exception for sulfur in the
wines.
Like, okay, you added sulfites,that's fine, you can take it.
Everything else is natural, youdidn't add anything else, okay.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I'm going to understand that, yeah, and then
it's on the honor system really.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
So the winemakers will say that it's a natural
wine and then some people aremaking quote unquote natural
wines but they're not natural,but selling them to as they're
not, because there's not adefinition and there are no
markers, yeah, and you don'thave to tell them.
I yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
What you're doing.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah.
So some wine buyers could bebuying wines that are definitely
not within their category ofnatural, but they're still
buying and selling it because ittastes the profile tastes
natural.
Natural wines usually taste alot lighter in style, A lot more
kind of this style that we'redrinking now more drinkable,
more chillable reds, you know.
So that's natural wine, whichgives us a nice little
(23:01):
transition into soul fights.
And here we go.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
So this is a topic that drives me nuts.
Drives me nuts.
People say they can't drinkwine, or specifically red wine,
because of soul fights.
Let me say this in a very niceway Go fuck yourself, because
(23:37):
false and honestly it drives mecrazy and you know, first off
trying to be better with mylanguage, but that is an example
of when I need to use it.
But seriously, you cannot.
The processed foods that youguys eat every single day has
(24:01):
more soul fights in it than wineand honestly, wine almost has a
natural soul fight.
Fermentation that's how wine ismade.
It's not the soul fights people, it is not the soul fights.
Let's make that very, veryclear.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
So why is okay?
So why is soul fights a bigdeal?
Just for the people that arelistening, like I know why, but
the question's for everyone else, like why is a soul fight such
a big topic?
because it's the new thing andeverybody thinks they're
(24:42):
allergic to it, but becausepeople think it gives you
headaches yeah, and let me, letme go on to a quote that I found
earlier that I can just whip upreal quickly because so
sulfides aren't the, aren't thearen't the issue for headaches
(25:05):
or any of your reactions ifyou're eating McDonald's fries,
any fast, any fast food friesessentially, besides in and out
potato chips, potato chips,dried fruits that still have
their color certain nuts yeahthose have more sulfides if
you're not eating the browndried up brittle dried fruits
(25:29):
and you're eating the reallynice colorful mango apricot ones
, those have a shit ton ofsulfides in it.
More than a bottle of winewe'll have yes, all right.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Now let me just read this to you.
It came from.
Where's the website?
Oh, I screen shot at it justfor this, so I don't have it
here.
But sulfide allergies?
Well, sulfides have beenidentified as an allergen by the
FDA.
It is important to note thatmost people are not actually
(26:03):
allergic to them.
The FDA estimates that only 1%of the population has a soul
fight sensitivity.
When talking about headachesafter drinking wine, many people
attribute the wine flu symptomto sulfides.
However, in 2008, a studyalcohol in migraine trigger
(26:25):
factors consumptions mechanismsa review from the journal of
headache and pain found thateven people diagnosed with
asthmatic soul fight allergiesstruggling there as magic
allergies.
Soul fights have not been linkedto headaches.
They have not been linked toheadaches, while it's true that
(26:48):
soul fights are present in wineand people can get headaches
from drinking a little bit, toomuch wine little bit much wine.
Those same people often eatfoods that contain way more soul
fights at the wine they drinkand do not complain of headaches
from those.
(27:08):
Furthermore, studies have foundthat people complain of
headaches just as much afterdrinking soul fight free wines.
The assumption that soul fightscause headaches a big appears
to be an example of correlationand not causation.
All right, so people?
Speaker 1 (27:30):
this is a natty wine, the back.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
No, it's not a real thing.
People that are in thisindustry, that understand soul
fights or, honestly, that justserve wine no, this is not a
thing, so please not true?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
so where are your headaches coming from then?
They are coming from there'sthat there's also tannins as
well.
If you get headaches from redwine and not white, then you are
getting.
You're getting your headachesfrom your, from the tannins,
(28:08):
because they have that termcalled it's a Damn it.
I'm losing it right now.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It must be the soul fights His, his means.
Thank, you.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Um, it's gotta be.
The soul fights, um.
So tannins have a lot ofhistamines in them, and so
histamines and some people areallergic to histamines and they
will cause headaches.
So take an anti histaminebefore you drink wine that has
tannins in it.
Then you're, you should be fine.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Okay, which goes on to a topic just jumping in
really quick, that if you areallergic to certain types of
wine or Grapes for that matterit's probably not the grapes,
it's probably something withinthe wine itself.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, they're adding.
They got to be adding somethingto the line that like, yes,
tannin powder, for example,because tannin in general has
histamines in it and tanninpowder has a more concentration
of histamines.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
That's why I get headaches from it well, and even
, like you know, you'd besurprised what people add.
I mean, like you said, the oakpowder, the some people had eggs
eggs, egg whites Well, notreally adding that in.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
It's more of like a finding process, and after you
find the wine you're filteringit out.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So they're not gonna physically have a white, it's
there's certain things that youdon't realize, that is not on
these labels, that's in therethat you are probably allergic
to without even realizing it'snot the grape.
I mean Not the grape, it's.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
yeah, this is a topic that I want to say for patreon,
so this next episode, but it'sabout an ingredient list on the
back of wine bottles.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Which is a great time to wrap this one up.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
So what we can talk about, bri, oh.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, let's just you know.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Patreon or main go on to patreon.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
All right to the listen of us Complaining about
the soul fight problem and tohear why Bri is coming.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
The breed cheese is coming to an extinction,
unfortunately for the patreonepisode.
But to wrap this up on the soulfight thing in natural wine, to
make it clear, it's not thesoul fights You're eating a lot
more soul fights than you aredrinking them in a wine, but it
(30:42):
is your consumption of Wine.
It is the fact that you're notdrinking water, you're
dehydrated and you're not eatingfood while you drink wine.
As Chris Horn put it, he's awine buyer for purple cafe and
in Seattle he put it very nicelyon our episode.
He said Wine in Americanculture has become more of a
(31:05):
cocktail where, yes, and othercultures, like in Europe, it's
on the dinner table, it is onthe lunch table, you know it's
on the breakfast table, you knowit's.
You're eating.
You're drinking it with foodand and and water.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Drinking it with water as well, so I'm not
drinking it to get hammered.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's more of a cultural thing, and so when
you're going out Tasting, goingto five different tasting rooms
in one single afternoon, and youwonder why you're getting
headaches, electrolytes and foodyou need those yes it's not a
cocktail.
I mean, I'm gonna say this lastthing before we wrap it up, but
(31:50):
I do.
I'm.
I'm not sure.
I haven't read about this atall, but it is a hunch to me
where people can drink beer toan ex, to extensively drink beer
and not get headaches, and thenDrink mixed drinks and not get
headaches extensively.
I think it might be becausewine is in that middle tier,
(32:11):
because with beer you're lookingat 5% to 9, depending on the
beer, with the IPA is just gottabe 9, but then you're drinking
a lot less of them and Withmixed drinks, that what you
think.
It's high octane, so you'regetting fucked up and numb
before you get the headache.
Yeah, so it's.
(32:31):
This is not a Study thing as faras I know.
You can probably look it up.
I haven't looked it up, but itis kind of my hunch that wine
isn't in this weird middle tierof alcohol percentage, where
it's not super low and it's notsuper high.
It's kind of in the middle tier.
So people more comfortabledrinking it as a cocktail, but
(32:52):
they're not getting numb beforethey get headaches and so I
think that might be the case.
I think that's the case with alot of it, but anyways.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Drink your water, eat your food.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Think you're why each your food.
It's not.
The soul fights people.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Not so tight.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Cheers.
Thank you guys for listening.
Love you go to patreon Cheers.
Bung Pod, welcome back Wine Wonder Boy.
And we got Jazzy J, jazzy.
Hey, what is a bung?
The whole of the barrel iscalled a bung hole.
It's called inside the bunghole is called a bung Wine with
mayhem.
That's what it's about.
Welcome back to the bung pod.
(00:20):
It's your boy, Ian King, akaWine Wonder Boy, and also with
my co-host, Jazzy J, in thebuilding.
Hey, hey, yeah, what up, whatup, what up.
So we have an interestingpodcast today.
We are gonna be talking about alittle bit about natural wines.
And soul fights and soul fights,and also the Breed Cheese
(00:44):
Epidemic.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
As well as some vegan wine.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yes indeed.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
We got this.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, all right, we're precarious.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So what are we open today?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So I'm gonna taste it first.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
This is a natural wine.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's a natural wine.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Let's start there so that our lovely guest Bre Davis
brought to us, so we thought itwould be appropriate to drink
here.
Smells good, I wanna smell it.
No, I wanna smell the cork.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You smell the cork here you go.
I do like the cork.
It's a composite cork.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I definitely think this is my first natural wine
that I'm aware of.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
That you're aware of.
Okay.
I could have possibly had onein the past, but Mm-hmm, you
gotta be careful of pouring thisguy because it has a lot of
sediment at the bottom,tartrates and a bunch of stuff.
So this is 50% Grenache and 50%Pick Pool.
(01:46):
I don't wanna say the produceruntil I smell it and taste it,
just in case I don't like it.
But I have good confidencebecause they make good wine,
beautiful, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Turn that label around.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So this wine is from Saunders Saunders wine's in
Yakima, 50% Grenache, 50% PickPool Blanc, interesting
Co-fermented together, unfind,unfiltered, and they're based
well, actually, they're actuallybased in Grandview.
I think they're taste rooms inYakima.
But yeah, it says produced andbottled by Saunders wines in
(02:30):
Grandview.
Yeah, so I guess they havetheir social media stuff on here
too.
A bland smell.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Just like nothing there, like air it's kinda
perfumey.
I mean, it has a littleperfumey smell to it.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
but yeah, fruit, bright fruit.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
All right, give us the notes.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Here we are Okay.
So we have red and white floralnotes on the nose that I'm
getting Also fruit on the noselike bright strawberry or
watermelon.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I almost get like a gushers.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Got yeah gushers.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, like the red gusher.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Absolutely red gushers and on the palate, okay,
okay, a little bit of stem inthere.
I feel like it's not bitter,but there is a phenolic.
I don't know how to explainherbal.
(03:37):
I guess Some herbal with, likethat, like you were saying, red
gushers, that strawberry, thatwatermelon.
It's interesting.
It's a very light red wine.
It's a chillable red is what itis.
Yes oh, totally summer red.
So it's not quite.
It's not as light as a likeProvence style rosé.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
What's the alcohol on ?
Speaker 1 (04:00):
this Probably like 12 .
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I was gonna say it seems like a perfect one to sit
by 11.5.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
11.5,.
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Seems like a great one to pop open next to the pool
on a hot 105 day.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Poolside zipper here we go Give me four of them A
little porch pounder.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So this is porch pounder for sure, this is a
porch pounder.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I don't think Sam would want to take this to the
dome piece, though, if you knowwhat I mean.
No, probably not.
On our glasses podcast we hadSam on the firefighter.
Sam, his favorite glass was thebottle itself, but there's a
lot of sediment on the bottom ofthis guy.
It's a natural wine.
(04:45):
There's a lot of tartrates onthe bottom.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
It's unfiltered, unfined, so All right, so tell
me about natural wine.
So let's just go into it.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Go into it.
It's time Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's time to rip these band-aids off.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Natural wine.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Because I'm sick of people coming in to my tasting
room.
And talking about natural wines, talking about soul fights,
talking about vegan wine and theone that I have.
I was telling you, earlier thisweek I had someone come in and
say, oh sorry, I'm I can't drinkcab Franck, I'm allergic to it,
(05:25):
but I can have.
I'm like, okay, that's fine,but you're not allergic to cab
Franck, it's how the wine makermakes that wine.
Yeah, it's it's what's insidethat wine.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That's ridiculous part of the recipe.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So just because you had one bad experience or two,
drink some water and eat somefood and then come back to me
and we will go back onto thattopic here shortly.
Yeah, let's go into naturalwines.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Now that I write that off my chest when people say,
like that, they're allergic to acertain great variety, I'm just
like you.
Shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Stop talking.
You need to talk.
Also, I wanted to point outnice sweatshirt.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Oh, thank you.
A new, some bung pod merch here.
Yeah, the nice all of greenhoodie with the bung pod wine
bottle with the sippy straw comeout of it.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
There's anything on the back.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
There's nothing on the back on this, one is just on
the On the left breast.
Yeah, it's dope, dope.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
He does super comfortable.
What else did you get?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I got a black hoodie that has a bottle on it as well.
I got a gift the champagnethroat goat hoodie For either my
girlfriend or friend I don'tknow which one yet so whoever
wants it.
And then I have beanie as well,and also a t-shirt.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
The bung pod t-shirt.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
So also should we shout out to our first purchase.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Our first, our first purchase of merch who purchased
our first merch?
It was your friend Oliviathat's in Las Vegas.
She's in the vague so she.
The.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
LVM she loves it.
Yeah she's been repping.
I think it was the black one.
The black one, yeah, yeah,thank you Olivia.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You're the best love you.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah it's dope of you extra.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Hell yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
All right back to it.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Natty Wines, natty Wines.
So the thing about naturallines is that there's not really
a clear definition of what anatural line is.
The buzzword has been going onthe past I don't know 10, 15
years.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, it makes people feel healthy.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Makes people feel better about themselves, for
sure.
But yeah, natural line does nothave a Clear-cut definition of
what natural line is.
But I will talk about whatpeople think it is, or what most
wine buyers, natural wine bars,what they base their purchasing
(08:16):
off of okay, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Like I said, this is like my first natural line, so
you're gonna take this overbecause I Only know so much here
.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I am ahead and say yes.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I am.
I am an equal opportunity Winedrinker.
I do not discriminate againstany wines unless it's super
faulty or it's just poorwinemaking.
But natural wine I do lovenatural wines as well as I love
conventional.
So I'm a very good Middleground neutral person.
I have a lot of love for bothof them.
(08:51):
So natural wine doesn't have aclear-cut definition, but what
most wine purchasers or winebuyers for a natural wine shop
or bar or restaurant, for thatmatter, with a base their
purchasing off of is Having noadditives in the wine.
So some wine buyers will.
(09:11):
Well, let me backtrack.
I'll rewind.
What can be added to wines andwhy is natural wine a thing?
Yeah, so for conventional winesthis is what you're looking at
you receive the grapes Right,and usually there's also
vineyard approach to naturalwines too.
Not always they want to besustainable, biodynamic or
(09:35):
organic when you get the grapesinto your facility and you make
the wine, for they do not addyeast For natural winemakers.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Because it's a natural fermentation.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah.
So they leave the grapes howthey are and they just let
nature take its place.
So it's a very hands-offapproach.
So you're not adding yeast intothe wine, you're not
inoculating anything.
Conventional winemakers they'lladd the yeast and then it's in
(10:09):
a day or so it'll startfermenting and then you do your
normal Ritual.
You do punchdowns.
If it's red wine, if it's whitewine, just kind of leave it
there.
And Some people add nutrient tothe fermentation to keep it
healthy.
That that could be a productcalled that, or it could be Just
(10:36):
more nitrogen, um nutrient forthe fermentation to keep it
healthy and keep it stable.
So it does not.
It doesn't stop fermenting.
And so what you don't want is adead Fermentation.
Yeah, because that will giveyou a headache and restarting
the fermentation could be.
(10:56):
It is very hard to do.
You can't just add more yeastin.
It's not that I've done itbefore, it is.
It's a difficult process andusually your wine does not come
out the way that you would Wantit to.
When you get the grapes in anddo a healthy ferment, sometimes
there's some a lot of phenolicbitterness at the end and it
(11:18):
just sucks.
So your end product could be alot worse if you didn't add
yeast.
But that being said, I know oneof my friends who's a winemaker.
He's done conventional andnatural fermentations native
fermentations is also called andhe's had the same amount of
(11:42):
stuck fermentations in eitherconventional or native.
So for him he does a lot ofnative ferments now and he's
like, honestly, have had I'vetalked to him about a few times.
He's like I've, I've seen itboth ways.
I don't you know, if they getstuck, it gets stuck at the end
of the day.
So that's yeast.
(12:03):
And then also there's a numberof things people can add to
conventional wines.
Here, if you're talking bulk orif you're bulk wines, like
grocery store wines, they add ashit ton of stuff in there.
You can add oak like powderEssentially, or tannin powder,
which I'm actually allergic to,I guess, because I've had a
(12:25):
number of wines that my my handsswell up a lot or I get
headaches from it, and we'll goover that a little bit later in
this podcast episode.
Instead of as a grocery storething, it's.
It's a short, it's a shortcutto having oak flavor, an oak
(12:46):
profile, within your winewithout Purchasing the expensive
French oak.
So you add oak powder.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yes, and I have heard of this and tannin powder.
And especially with big Well,when they're just producing mass
quantities.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, yeah, I would say like Josh, yeah, josh is one
, Justin, yeah, owned bycoca-cola is another.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And so that's just for bulkwines, for your typical
conventional boutique winerythat's small, about, like you
know, up to 10,000 cases a year.
(13:21):
They're doing the ferments,they're adding nutrient to most
of the ferments as well and andthat's really just a Another
product that has yeast in it andit has nitrogen in it and a
bunch of other chemicals.
That's healthy for a healthyferment to keep it going so it
(13:43):
doesn't get stuck.
Essentially and and usuallypeople will do if you're not a
bulk wine maker, you're puttingyour wine in a barrel for years
and years, taking it out, andthen you're filtering, you're
finding it, finding you'readding bentonite Into the tank.
Bentonite is a clay.
(14:03):
That's the most popular orwidely used finding agents, and
what finding does is really justtake out a lot of Like sediment
so your wine isn't cloudy.
Yes like those reallymicroscopic things that
filtering won't take out, and sothat's really what you're
(14:24):
taking out and then you'readding so to, which is also
sulfur dioxide.
Okay, so fights into your wines.
It's an antioxidant agent, soit keeps the wine fresh.
It keeps it from Staling out,especially in white wines.
That's a big thing in whitewines and they do it in red
wines as well to keep it fresh.
(14:45):
And Then they do a small bumpof SO2 Right before they bottle
so they know it's healthy andit's stable in the bottle before
it goes to distribution orsales, Whether it be
distribution or the tasting room.
So that's conventional Naturalwinemakers.
They won't add yeast, they won'tadd anything.
(15:08):
It's a very hands-off approachand they will still do
punchdowns and those things, butthey're not going to be adding
nutrients into their ferments.
Usually they're not adding.
There is a big debate withnatural winemakers about adding
SO2 or not.
Some don't, some do, Depends.
(15:30):
That's where the definition ofnatural is Little cloudy is in
sulfur.
So I mean sulfur is, SO2 is a.
It is a natural product offermentation in general.
So it'll come, it'll be in yourwine regardless.
But whether you're adding moreor not depends on the winemaker
(15:53):
and depends on what their goalis and what they want to be
doing.
So not all natural wine is madeequally.
If you make good natural winesorry I'll say if you make not
great natural wine it's going totaste oxidized.
It's going to taste like likemost white wines, like
(16:18):
Chardonnay, for example.
I've seen a couple of naturalwinemakers who just let it
oxidize.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And you generally see the natural in whites or reds.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
It's about equal on both.
Usually a winemaker Sparkling,sparkling, for the most part
already is.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, I was going to say you don't really.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Well, actually, no, it's not, Because for method
Champagne, for Champagne, you'readding yeast.
That's part of the process.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
The process.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
You're adding yeah, you're adding more yeast and
you're incorporating it in.
Yeah, Before it goes into thebottle.
So when you make the still wine, you're adding yeast and you're
adding sugar into the bottle,so it does ferment and so I am
not sure.
I mean there's petnat, which ispetalant natural, which is a
(17:14):
natural way to make sparklingwine.
Okay so yeah, so that wouldmake sense.
Okay, I'm a little foggy on theprocess of that because I
haven't done it and I haven'tstudied it in a long time, but
what I think you do is you makeyour wine, whether it be white
(17:36):
or red, usually white or rosécolored and you're waiting till
it's fermenting until dryness,but it's still fermenting and
then you bottle it while it'sstill bubbly in there.
And then you crown, cap it andthat's it.
And so you don't, there's noriddling, there's no dosage, you
(17:57):
just keep it in there and thenyou sell it.
And so that's why a lot ofpetnats, there's a ton of
sediment on the bottom of it,because that's all leaves,
that's all dead yeast cellsfalling to the bottom, because
it finishes fermentation withinbottle already.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
And the day.
You're just kind of hoping thatit ferments in there, because
I've had some bottles whenmaking a method champignoir
process where it didn't actuallyferment in the bottle.
All right, let's take a quickbreak for a second because I got
something I want to tell youguys about.
(18:36):
If you want an extra episodeper week, if you want exclusive
discounts on some dope ass merchthat we got.
Also, if you want to add yourtwo cents, your opinions, your
hot takes or your topic ideas,we want to hear about it.
Go to patreoncom slash officialbung pod and talk to us.
(18:59):
Now let's get back to the show.
All right, guys, we got somenews.
We have an official bung podstore.
We got some merch going.
Bung pod dot store.
Update your life, update yourwardrobe.
You need some new clothes.
You need to look fresh.
Update your life, update yourstyle.
(19:20):
We got hoodies, we got handbags, we got stickers, we got
beanies.
We got more coming on the way.
So if you like the show and youwant to cop yourself some merch
, go to bung pod dot store.
Now let's get back to the show.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
What kind of shipping it does.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That's a stressful I've had some pet nets that are
extremely bubbly and some thatare just like prickly or fizzy.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I know what you're talking about.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Okay, I'm even learning today, guys.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, and one thing about natural lines for white
lines or for this kind of stylethat we're drinking now, which
is a super light red style, theydon't go through malolactic
fermentation.
So ML, which turns malic acidand lactic acid.
So that's the process thatlarch-sardinase go through,
(20:11):
especially if it's in barrel,where the malic acid is more of
a green apple flavor and thelactic acid is more kind of like
milk or butter.
Milk butter yeah, there's tonsof lactic acid and milk and
butter, both, and all thosedairy products too.
So that's what it's a notreally a fermentation, it's more
just a transformation of acids.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Which makes sense Is really what?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
it is?
Not necessarily a fermentation,because we would textbook know
it Right.
So so with natural lines, a wayto keep it from going to malo
is by adding SO2.
And so with natural lines, youcan also cold stabilize it.
(20:54):
So if you, if you coldstabilize it to like 35 degrees
for like a couple of weeks, it'slikely not going to be going
through that process ofmalolactic.
But then you have to have atank and glycol, etc.
Etc.
A lot of natural winemakers liketo have this philosophy of
winemaking where it's more, it'smore linear to that of making
(21:20):
wine in like Jesus's time, rightwhen they didn't have all this
stuff, you know, didn't have allthe technology and stuff.
So it really depends on who youare and what you're trying to
do.
And then you're also runningthe risk of it spontaneously
fermenting in a bottle and thenquarks popping out randomly.
So there's also that.
But so natural wine doesn'tnecessarily have a clear cut
(21:44):
definition.
Some of my friends who are winebuyers or have a natural wine
bar or wine shop, they will makean exception for sulfur in the
wines.
Like, okay, you added sulfites,that's fine, you can take it.
Everything else is natural, youdidn't add anything else, okay.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I'm going to understand that, yeah, and then
it's on the honor system really.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
So the winemakers will say that it's a natural
wine and then some people aremaking quote unquote natural
wines but they're not natural,but selling them to as they're
not, because there's not adefinition and there are no
markers, yeah, and you don'thave to tell them.
I yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
What you're doing.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah.
So some wine buyers could bebuying wines that are definitely
not within their category ofnatural, but they're still
buying and selling it because ittastes the profile tastes
natural.
Natural wines usually taste alot lighter in style, A lot more
kind of this style that we'redrinking now more drinkable,
more chillable reds, you know.
So that's natural wine, whichgives us a nice little
(23:01):
transition into soul fights.
And here we go.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
So this is a topic that drives me nuts.
Drives me nuts.
People say they can't drinkwine, or specifically red wine,
because of soul fights.
Let me say this in a very niceway Go fuck yourself, because
(23:37):
false and honestly it drives mecrazy and you know, first off
trying to be better with mylanguage, but that is an example
of when I need to use it.
But seriously, you cannot.
The processed foods that youguys eat every single day has
(24:01):
more soul fights in it than wineand honestly, wine almost has a
natural soul fight.
Fermentation that's how wine ismade.
It's not the soul fights people, it is not the soul fights.
Let's make that very, veryclear.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
So why is okay?
So why is soul fights a bigdeal?
Just for the people that arelistening, like I know why, but
the question's for everyone else, like why is a soul fight such
a big topic?
because it's the new thing andeverybody thinks they're
(24:42):
allergic to it, but becausepeople think it gives you
headaches yeah, and let me, letme go on to a quote that I found
earlier that I can just whip upreal quickly because so
sulfides aren't the, aren't thearen't the issue for headaches
(25:05):
or any of your reactions ifyou're eating McDonald's fries,
any fast, any fast food friesessentially, besides in and out
potato chips, potato chips,dried fruits that still have
their color certain nuts yeahthose have more sulfides if
you're not eating the browndried up brittle dried fruits
(25:29):
and you're eating the reallynice colorful mango apricot ones
, those have a shit ton ofsulfides in it.
More than a bottle of winewe'll have yes, all right.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Now let me just read this to you.
It came from.
Where's the website?
Oh, I screen shot at it justfor this, so I don't have it
here.
But sulfide allergies?
Well, sulfides have beenidentified as an allergen by the
FDA.
It is important to note thatmost people are not actually
(26:03):
allergic to them.
The FDA estimates that only 1%of the population has a soul
fight sensitivity.
When talking about headachesafter drinking wine, many people
attribute the wine flu symptomto sulfides.
However, in 2008, a studyalcohol in migraine trigger
(26:25):
factors consumptions mechanismsa review from the journal of
headache and pain found thateven people diagnosed with
asthmatic soul fight allergiesstruggling there as magic
allergies.
Soul fights have not been linkedto headaches.
They have not been linked toheadaches, while it's true that
(26:48):
soul fights are present in wineand people can get headaches
from drinking a little bit, toomuch wine little bit much wine.
Those same people often eatfoods that contain way more soul
fights at the wine they drinkand do not complain of headaches
from those.
(27:08):
Furthermore, studies have foundthat people complain of
headaches just as much afterdrinking soul fight free wines.
The assumption that soul fightscause headaches a big appears
to be an example of correlationand not causation.
All right, so people?
Speaker 1 (27:30):
this is a natty wine, the back.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
No, it's not a real thing.
People that are in thisindustry, that understand soul
fights or, honestly, that justserve wine no, this is not a
thing, so please not true?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
so where are your headaches coming from then?
They are coming from there'sthat there's also tannins as
well.
If you get headaches from redwine and not white, then you are
getting.
You're getting your headachesfrom your, from the tannins,
(28:08):
because they have that termcalled it's a Damn it.
I'm losing it right now.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It must be the soul fights His, his means.
Thank, you.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Um, it's gotta be.
The soul fights, um.
So tannins have a lot ofhistamines in them, and so
histamines and some people areallergic to histamines and they
will cause headaches.
So take an anti histaminebefore you drink wine that has
tannins in it.
Then you're, you should be fine.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Okay, which goes on to a topic just jumping in
really quick, that if you areallergic to certain types of
wine or Grapes for that matterit's probably not the grapes,
it's probably something withinthe wine itself.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, they're adding.
They got to be adding somethingto the line that like, yes,
tannin powder, for example,because tannin in general has
histamines in it and tanninpowder has a more concentration
of histamines.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
That's why I get headaches from it well, and even
, like you know, you'd besurprised what people add.
I mean, like you said, the oakpowder, the some people had eggs
eggs, egg whites Well, notreally adding that in.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
It's more of like a finding process, and after you
find the wine you're filteringit out.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So they're not gonna physically have a white, it's
there's certain things that youdon't realize, that is not on
these labels, that's in therethat you are probably allergic
to without even realizing it'snot the grape.
I mean Not the grape, it's.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
yeah, this is a topic that I want to say for patreon,
so this next episode, but it'sabout an ingredient list on the
back of wine bottles.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Which is a great time to wrap this one up.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
So what we can talk about, bri, oh.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, let's just you know.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Patreon or main go on to patreon.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
All right to the listen of us Complaining about
the soul fight problem and tohear why Bri is coming.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
The breed cheese is coming to an extinction,
unfortunately for the patreonepisode.
But to wrap this up on the soulfight thing in natural wine, to
make it clear, it's not thesoul fights You're eating a lot
more soul fights than you aredrinking them in a wine, but it
(30:42):
is your consumption of Wine.
It is the fact that you're notdrinking water, you're
dehydrated and you're not eatingfood while you drink wine.
As Chris Horn put it, he's awine buyer for purple cafe and
in Seattle he put it very nicelyon our episode.
He said Wine in Americanculture has become more of a
(31:05):
cocktail where, yes, and othercultures, like in Europe, it's
on the dinner table, it is onthe lunch table, you know it's
on the breakfast table, you knowit's.
You're eating.
You're drinking it with foodand and and water.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Drinking it with water as well, so I'm not
drinking it to get hammered.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's more of a cultural thing, and so when
you're going out Tasting, goingto five different tasting rooms
in one single afternoon, and youwonder why you're getting
headaches, electrolytes and foodyou need those yes it's not a
cocktail.
I mean, I'm gonna say this lastthing before we wrap it up, but
(31:50):
I do.
I'm.
I'm not sure.
I haven't read about this atall, but it is a hunch to me
where people can drink beer toan ex, to extensively drink beer
and not get headaches, and thenDrink mixed drinks and not get
headaches extensively.
I think it might be becausewine is in that middle tier,
(32:11):
because with beer you're lookingat 5% to 9, depending on the
beer, with the IPA is just gottabe 9, but then you're drinking
a lot less of them and Withmixed drinks, that what you
think.
It's high octane, so you'regetting fucked up and numb
before you get the headache.
Yeah, so it's.
(32:31):
This is not a Study thing as faras I know.
You can probably look it up.
I haven't looked it up, but itis kind of my hunch that wine
isn't in this weird middle tierof alcohol percentage, where
it's not super low and it's notsuper high.
It's kind of in the middle tier.
So people more comfortabledrinking it as a cocktail, but
(32:52):
they're not getting numb beforethey get headaches and so I
think that might be the case.
I think that's the case with alot of it, but anyways.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Drink your water, eat your food.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Think you're why each your food.
It's not.
The soul fights people.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Not so tight.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Cheers.
Thank you guys for listening.
Love you go to patreon Cheers.
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