April 10, 2024 • 45 mins
CARHARTT FAMILY WINES:
Website: www.carharttfamilywines.com
Instragram: @carharttfamilywines
TikTok: @carharttfamilywines
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Embark on a heartfelt odyssey to the scenic vineyards of Santa Ynez Valley with us, as we reconnect with Chase Carhartt, the winemaking virtuoso of Carhartt Vineyard. Chase's narrative takes us through the verdant rows of his childhood memories, where the seeds of his winemaking destiny were sown at the tender age of nine. As he swaps tales of academia and the tug-of-war between societal expectation and personal passion, you'll feel the palpable weight of each decision that steered him toward his true calling. This is a story of legacy, love for the vine, and the serendipitous moments that ferment into a life's work.
As we traverse the globe together, sipping insights from various wine regions, you'll feel the loss of travel plans to Tasmania dashed by the pandemic, but gain a world of knowledge from our international experiences. Visualize the unique challenges that vintners face, like the baboon brigade in South African vineyards and the wild boar skirmishes in California, through vivid accounts that showcase the unpredictable and thrilling world of grape cultivation. These tales from the trellis underscore the resilience and adaptability needed to nurture the perfect vintage, no matter the continent.
Finally, we raise a glass to the storied tapestry of Carhartt Family Wines, weaving through the entrepreneurial spirit of Hamilton Carhartt since 1889. Discover how the West Coast Carhartts have poured their hearts into each bottle, creating an artisan experience that speaks to the soul of winemaking. Our Venture label embodies the spirit of experimentation, captivating our wine club members with every unique pour. Join us for this intimate exploration of vintages that tell a story, connecting us all in the universal language of wine.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bung pod.
Welcome back, wine Wonderboy.
And we got Jazzy J.
Jazzy, what is a bung?
The hole of the barrel iscalled a bung hole.
Inside the bung hole is calleda bung Wine with mayhem.
That's what it's about.
All right, welcome back to theBung Pod.
(00:22):
It's your boy, ian King, akaWine Wonderboy in the building.
Jazzy J is not here right now,but I did a little traveling.
I'm down here in Santa Barbara,the birthplace of my wine
career, with my friend and Iwould say mentor as well, chase
(00:45):
Carhart.
Welcome, chase, what's?
happening, thanks for coming tothe pod man.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Really appreciate it.
So all the fan base for theBung Pod knows I reference
Carhart exhaustively sometimesin the pod.
So I felt it only right forthem to meet you and for you to
express kind of like whatCarhartt's all about, what you
guys do, from your greatvarieties to your inspirations
(01:17):
behind your wines as well.
So with that, what's your winebackground?
Like Like how'd you startgetting into this?
And like why are you here?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Good question and also one that I do.
I get asked a lot and also, Ithink, maybe some common
misconception around howgenerations get into wine.
I don't know about everybodyelse, but I speak for myself.
I mean, you know, my parentsplanted our vineyard in 1996 and
um for first vintage in 98.
(01:51):
Uh, in 90, I mean I was born in89, so at the time, you know, I
was nine years old.
So essentially like as theystarted to get their start in
wine and in grape growing, I wasreasonably young and kind of
came up as they were coming up,um, or just, like you know, got
older in the business, um, whenthey plant their first.
(02:12):
96 was when we planted sevenacres of merlot and three acres
of syrah, okay, on the, on themace up there and um, yeah, so I
mean, I remember when planted,I remember being up there as a
kid, like when there was nothingup there, um, but yeah, I guess
.
I guess the point of that is Igrew up in it and I think it's
(02:35):
kind of interesting to a lot ofpeople think like, oh, you were
like born to do this or youmust've known from a young age
that you wanted to do this, andthat is like just simply not
true at all.
How can you?
I've always thought, like howthat's just not typical for a
young kid to be, like I want tobe a winemaker when I grew up.
I mean maybe that happens, yeah, and who knows.
(02:58):
But generally speaking, it'slike I want to be a astronaut, I
want to be a firefighter likenot, I want to make alcohol at
seven years old, you know, notreally knowing the full thing.
So anyways, like yeah, I mean Iwas quite frankly.
I mean yeah, I grew up in itand was involved in the winery
and involved in winemaking andall that stuff and seeing my dad
(03:18):
farming and all that stuff wasreally cool.
But I mean in high school Ijust did a talk at my high
school the other day actually,and talked to some students like
I am not a natural genius interms of school stuff okay, yeah
, like that's not myacademically, academically like
(03:40):
I'm not a high sat score typeguy.
That is not.
I am not good at, probably attests.
Generally I'm not a high SATscore, I'm a hard worker.
So I got very good marks inschool all throughout my school
career because all I did wasjust like work as hard as I
could.
You know why?
(04:00):
I'm not really sure, for somereason, but I, um, I just worked
as hard as I could, probablybecause my parents pushed me to
do that.
Um, but anyways, the point ofthat is when I was getting close
to graduating high school andyou know, like applying to
colleges, like I was, there wasa big division Like I was like
okay, well, kind of.
I was like I applied to CalPoly, san Luis Obispo for
(04:23):
winemaking, for a degree inwinemaking, but wine and
viticulture being the title, andthen I also applied to like a
variety of schools, mostly inCalifornia, not all, but mostly
in California, I would say,primarily for international
business.
That was the kind of goal forme and I felt at the time that
(04:46):
that was what I deserved.
Okay yeah because I'd worked sohard in high school and I
quickly well, I don't sayquickly, but I realized over
time that that was just likealso, I think, kind of
ridiculous and that was likemore societal.
(05:06):
That that was put on me, yeah,that I should be going to like
an ivy league school or someshit, right, like that was not
of interest, that really doesn'tmean anything.
I ended up going to cal poly,ended up choosing cal poly, um,
because I was like you know,there is a really good base in
this whole wine game.
It is something I'm interestedin.
Yeah, I just didn't know ifthat was like my.
You know, there is a reallygood base in this whole wine
game.
It is something I'm interestedin I just didn't know if that
was like my forever, but it issomething I'm interested in, so
(05:30):
let's give it a go.
I ended up getting into CalPoly in San Luis Obispo and my
college career there was amazingand essentially what I
discovered, you know, was that Iwas enjoying it more and more.
It was definitely like, as Istarted getting into details, it
(05:52):
was like, oh shit, this is likethere's a lot to this.
Yeah, it's very hard to master,it's unmasterable, that's kind
of cool.
And then what really set myentire career off, I would say
quite frankly, was in my thirdyear and I tell everybody this
because this is like this is themost important thing I think in
(06:13):
anybody's career personally, ifyou can, if you're the right
age or really just any point inyour career.
In my third year at Cal Poly,they forced you to do a
practical and every otherstudent was like I'm going to
work in slow, I'm going to workin Paso and I'm going to take
classes at the same time and Iwant to work at all the same
fucking wineries and all thisstuff.
(06:34):
And I was like it was like themost confusing concept to me,
like you're working in yourbackyard and taking classes at
the same time.
That means you're going tograduate faster, yeah, and I was
like why, well, for me, wineand vit.
Like dude, I was like thisrules.
Like I've grown up my lifeworking, like when I was at
(06:57):
school.
Like dude, my parents weren'tthere to be.
Like, what are you doing?
What are you getting done thisweekend?
Like, what kind of work are youputting in with the ranch?
Yeah, the winery.
Like, yeah, I was at school so Iwas like dude, I got plenty of
other cool shit I can do like Iwas on my own man, yeah.
So I was like I'm not trying tospeed this up, I know what my
life's gonna look like at somepoint.
(07:19):
I know what it looks like if Igo back home which don't't get
me wrong, I don't dislike butI'm going to milk an opportunity
when I see one Right.
And so, yeah, I just was.
Uh, anyways, my third year, allthese students doing that.
I was like that's not for me.
Um, I have a friend, uh, herein Santinez or in storm, storm
(07:39):
wines, and he's South African.
And, um, he was like.
He was like we were chattingabout it and he was like do you
want to do a harvest in SouthAfrica?
And I was like hell, yeah,africa.
Like, like, is that like lionsand tigers and bears running?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
around on the street Like what's that like?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Um, I had no knowledge.
You know I'm being a little bitfacetious, but you get what I'm
saying.
Like I had no concept of whatlife, winemaking, anything,
culture, nothing was like inSouth Africa.
Yeah, and it just soundedexotic and an adventure.
And so I went winter quarter atCal Poly.
I took off and flew in air,turned 21, landed in Cape Town
(08:22):
on my 21st birthday.
Wow in air, turned 21, landed inCape town on my 21st birthday
and touched down and was like Ifelt I know this is going to
sound weird, but I still getchills thinking about it Like I
felt this like vibration when Ihit the ground, when I touched
the ground with my feet and Iwas like.
I felt like this sense ofbelonging and almost a sense of
(08:45):
being at home and for me thathas never occurred to me
anywhere else but the San YnezValley, ever anywhere in the
world that I've ever been.
And anyways, touched down inSouth Africa and literally dude,
like I mean not to make a longstory too long, but like got my.
These were the iPod days I hadan iPod yeah.
(09:09):
Got my iPod stolen within 24hours just by being an idiot and
leaving it places.
Got it stolen by the people Iwas going to work with for the
next three months, like someonetook it oh shit, you know, but
they have nothing and uh, justthrough a series of events and
just like ended up landing inthis cool place, like right on
(09:31):
the beach.
I was working for a winery upin the himalayan arda and I was
the only intern for this familycompany and the bottom line is
dude, like that.
That trip changed my life.
It changed how I look at wine,it changed how I view the
industry and basically what Irealized during that trip is
(09:52):
like dude, you can travel forwine and work in other parts of
the world for wine in a milliondifferent capacities, and I can.
I was able to be like dude, I'mgonna do.
I was just like I'm gonna dothis for as long as I can.
Yeah, and my dad's?
You know, I was always thinkingabout my dad, like he's not
gonna be able to say shit to mebecause I'm working.
Yeah, I'm honing my skill set,so like I can go fuck off for
(10:16):
four months and like, not really, you know work, but I can also
experience culture and food andlife.
And Africa was like dude, dude,mind blowing.
I mean, that place makes youfeel alive Like no, no other
place, man, definitely.
And so I did that.
I came back to Cal Poly achanged man and, um, I never
(10:39):
looked back.
And then I basically spent thenext not in, not every single
year the next 10th decadetraveling to mostly the southern
hemisphere not entirely, butmostly southern hemisphere um
every almost every year.
Uh, there was a couple yearswhere I worked three harvests in
a year.
Um, how's that work?
It works by.
(10:59):
Yeah, so, like I did so I did2015 march, I flew to tasmania,
so off the coast of australia,did a, did a harvest in tasmania
, came back in summer, worked umfall with my family, made one
(11:22):
here, fall of 15, and then earlyharvest january, flew over
mid-january 2016 to south africacool climate, so mainly pinot
and chardonnay with storm winesand finished in like late feb so
ina 12 month year I did three,
three v.
That's crazy and that was kindof like my.
(11:44):
I mean this is not uncommon.
Right In in in business, Um, ifyou can triple, double or
triple your opportunity, rightwhen most people take one
opportunity a year, it's harvest, it's one time a year I was
doubling or tripling down everyyear.
So my experience double ortripled, um over a 10 year
period Like, yeah, I mean duh,and I got to travel the world
(12:09):
and see things and I did thatuntil 2020 and then COVID hit
and life got real and reallyreal.
But all the while I was buildingbusiness here with my parents
and so all of this, just go back.
It was just a culmination of alot of things and I was learning
about sales, I was learningabout production, I was learning
about viticulture, I waslearning about dealing with
(12:31):
different cultures,communication.
Just inherent in that was justmanagement.
I mean I was coming into a lotof these sellers, not entirely,
but like with experience that alot of the other seller interns
didn't have Right, Because theydidn't have their own family
business or they weren'tmanaging employees at the time,
or they didn't have as big arobust of direct consumer
business as we did.
(12:52):
So you know, I was probably.
I'd like to think that I mademade my value very apparent very
early on, because I'm justgoing to get in.
I was the, I was proud to bethe epitome of the American
muscle.
Yeah, you go into anothercountry everybody's kind of it's
fun.
Man, you live in a house with abunch of people from a bunch of
(13:14):
different cultures and you getin.
That's cool.
How are you going to defineyourself?
I define myself by being,straight up, american muscle.
I'm going to get in here andoutwork everybody.
Yeah, and I like that it muscle.
Like I'm gonna get in here andoutwork everybody, yeah, and I
like that, like it was fun in acool way, like in a very like,
yeah, good way.
But yeah, you gotta it's, it'sa fun deal to get out there and
like, get thrown in the mix witha bunch of people and be like,
(13:34):
how are you gonna come out?
You know it's like it's ajungle, yeah, and like I love
that shit, I really do.
And, uh, I miss it.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I miss being able to do that, but you know all right,
let's take a quick break for asecond, because I got something
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Now let's get back to the show.
I mean, I almost went toTasmania one year.
I called you and it was in 21,I believe I wasn't able to go
because it was just after COVIDand Australia wasn't letting
anyone in.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, it was a tough time time, yeah, so I wasn't
able to go, but, um man, thattravel experience.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
That's one thing.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Cool about the wine industry you can do, though, is
like do a harvest in you knowtwo places of the world in one
year dude 100 and get so muchexperience yeah, and also just
like I think I again, I thinkpeople ask me the, the just to
bank off of that right, liketraveling for wine and working a
(15:35):
vintage somewhere else, or justjust it doesn't matter what
part of the industry you're in.
In my opinion, production, sureyeah.
But even if you were like youknow what, I'm gonna go over to
this part of the world and workin a wine shop, or I'm gonna go
this part of world and be likewine distribution, I don't know,
whatever you can find, yeah, tome it's psychological too right
(16:00):
, like it's a study of humanbeings, it's the, the study of
decision-making.
Like I know how to like by 2017, 2018, I've been doing this a
long time Like I know how wine'smade.
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm not saying that you don'tlearn tricks and like really
cool stuff, but I wasn'tstudying that at that point.
I wasn't studying how wine ismade.
(16:22):
I was I'm no offense like allthe places I've been.
Like there's a little bit ofdifferent treatment of stuff,
for sure, but that's differenttreatment of grapes in that
particular part of the world, soit's very specific to that area
too it doesn't mean you canjust take that trick and bring
it back to your place.
People make this mistake all thetime.
Bring it back home and just useit.
(16:43):
You got to refine that base offyour own situation, your own
set of terroir, if you want to.
So, what I was doing which Ithink is the smart thing in my
opinion, because this has helpedme more than anything is
studying the minds and studyinga winemaker's decision-making
processes.
(17:03):
Studying how they react toscenarios, analyses, studying
how they react to scenarios, notjust because of who they are as
a person, but how they assess aproblem, particularly problems.
So if we get really bad rain inthe middle of harvest and we've
got white, tight, clusteredwhite grapes hanging, or like
you got chardonnay out there andmildew starts to happen, or
(17:27):
just a variety of issues likethat, right, like I've seen bad
shit happen and south africa isa perfect example of where
there's four seasons in one daylike all sorts of shit can
happen.
So, seeing how people do that,seeing how culture, how work
culture is I've never been toanother country and a story
period that works like we workin the US, that harvests like we
(17:49):
harvest, that has the samementality for work, right, it,
just it's very different.
And then culturally too, how doyou, what does it feel like to
work with a bunch of Frenchpeople or Italian people or
Spanish people or Argentiniansor any of that stuff?
Like, what is that?
What does that look like andhow do they relate to what we're
(18:13):
doing, to the process of whatwe're doing?
So to me again, it's it's notnecessarily just the, just the
actual I, just the actual thing,it's how we're going about.
That thing that I was studyingand I think um sort of
consciously and andsubconsciously that has affected
(18:35):
who I am.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Is it true?
I heard this?
I'm not sure, but in SouthAfrica, is it true that their
number one pest for vineyardsare baboons?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, a living thing.
Yeah, I mean I would say thatthat is a real, real threat.
That is a legitimate threat.
Do they eat the grapes or domore than that?
Eating the grapes is likereally, actually, I mean almost
the least of it, like I haveseen a tribe of baboons like
come through vineyard.
I mean, I don't know if theycall them a tribe or troop, I
(19:10):
can't really remember, butwhatever, um you know, there can
be 15, there can be like 100,and they are agile and they are
strong and they are just lawlesshow do you get rid of them?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I mean shoot like no no one shoots them there.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Most of the people that I was encountered don't
shoot them, but they will shootlike can air cannons or guns
scare them away, to scare them,yeah, yeah, or dogs, something,
um, you know that's.
It's the same thing over there.
Like most people aren't likelike really, you know like for
like going and actually killingthese animals, like that's not
the idea, yeah.
But they're aggressive.
(19:54):
They will go through a vineyardand not just eat the grapes,
they will snap cordons snapbranches I mean we're talking
about complete decimating anentire block or an entire
vineyard.
Yeah, it's really bad.
Like entire block or an entirevineyard.
Yeah, it's really bad.
Like they don't have a problemwith that.
(20:14):
They'll break into people'shomes, go into the cupboards,
take out cans, smash the cans onthe ground and just completely
like destroy places becausethat's how they are, you know,
that's how they, that they move.
That's insane.
Yeah, so that kind of pest Imean is, I mean it makes us and
like our deer problem.
The closest thing I would sayhere is like is like hogs, like
wild boar.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Oh right, wild pigs Central coast?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, we have really bad issues in certain parts of
the central coast with wild pigsRight they will go through and
really screw up vineyards yeah.
But I would say that baboonsare probably the worst pests I
have ever seen in the worldanywhere.
Easily, yeah, and everybody'sdifferent.
I didn't see any pests inArgentina.
I didn't see any pests inFrance.
(20:58):
They basically have nothing.
They have like a little bit ofdeer.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
They barely even had bird issues.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I mean, we have bird issues here.
Yeah, that's why we net yeah.
But a lot of places don't haveyou know as bad a bird issues.
But yeah, it was.
Yeah, it's crazy dude, so let'stalk about the elephant in the
room real quick for the peoplelistening.
Your last name is carhartt.
Your winery is called carharttfamily wines.
What's the connection betweenthe clothing company and your
(21:26):
family and this winery?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It's a great question .
I mean, I would be asking thatquestion too.
So my great-great-grandfatherHamilton Carhartt, I basically
started Carhartt Clothing in1889.
It was really actually a coupleyears before that, but the
(21:53):
formal date is 1889 um, inmichigan, detroit, and uh,
basically he had I mean to maketo try and keep it short he had
a couple of kids, hamilton jrand wiley.
You know, hamilton Jr ended upcoming out to the West coast and
Wiley stayed back and HamiltonJr is my great grandfather so
(22:16):
not my great great, but mygrandfather and he came out to
West coast, pasadena area, andthen my grandfather was born in
Pasadena, and my dad wasactually born in Pasadena too at
it, but in a very, very earlyage came up here to Rancho San
Ynez and then I was born here.
So, that side of the family.
Basically that's how we endedup on the West coast and my
other side of my family, um, isthe, the the Wiley side, if you
(22:41):
want to call it that but we alltrace back to Hamilton.
Um, they still are in Detroitand they still own Carhartt
clothing and it's privately heldand they're amazing and we're
super good friends.
But in terms of likerelationship to Carhartt
clothing, carhartt family linesis just familial.
(23:02):
We carry the name um, but it'sa family so not business related
or financially evolved correct?
yeah, so we don't.
Um, we're completely separatebusinesses in every single way
you could imagine.
Yeah, um, we have noinvolvement in car clothing
other than me basically wearingthe clothes every single day and
(23:23):
working in them and, uh, familyback east drinking our wines.
They make the clothes, I wearthem.
We make the wine they drink it.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's symbiotic, it's a good relationship.
Yeah, it's a great relationship.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
And they're family and they're amazing.
I have a very, very smallfamily and we're very close with
them and my cousins out thereare my age and we're all kind of
in the same place in life andit's awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, that's rad, yeah, so with Carhartt Family
Wines you guys do a lot ofdifferent great varieties.
You yourself, I mean you makelike wines for three labels
technically three, yeah, I wouldsay technically two labels,
technically two, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So Carhartt Family Wines is.
It's grown over the years.
Right, it used to just beCarhartt Vineyard.
It was like that for a longtime.
We had one vineyard.
That's what my parents planted.
Yeah, that's when I started here, yep, and as it grew, it grew,
we started planting a little bitmore estate excuse me, estate,
(24:28):
fruit, um, and basically it'skind of yeah, so I was traveling
at that same time, right, sothis is all kind of coming
together.
But, um, as car vineyard wasgrowing and as our plantings
were growing and as we weremaking a little bit more wine,
um, we, uh, I was also travelingabroad.
(24:48):
And so, in 2016, I started asecond label called Carhartt
Venture, and Venture label isthis is the way that I define
them but Carhartt is our kind ofa state brand and Venture is
our progressive, moreexperimental brand.
And I started Carhartt Venturebecause I was traveling these
other countries and had allthese crazy ideas and
experiments I wanted to do, andI didn't want to do them with
(25:10):
Carhartt Vineyard at the timebecause I didn't want to change
the style that my mom haddeveloped.
So my mom has been thewinemaker and now we co-winemake
, but she was the winemaker inthe beginning.
She started it with my dad, whowas the head viticulturalist,
and I didn't want to mess withthat.
Like I really liked it, we'dbuilt a wine club off of that.
(25:31):
I love the style.
I love the idea.
That was consistency in our ownstyle and I didn't want to mess
with that.
You know it's what people havebeen trusting.
So I wanted like a clean slateand that's why venture was
started.
Um, and then in like I guesslike 21, we finally launched I
(25:53):
think it was 21.
We finally launched Carharttfamily wines, which is a rebrand
of basically our entireoperation.
Um, and I'd been waiting to dothat for a long time.
I'd been working on it foryears and years, so finally
launched the rebrand Carharttfamily wines.
More comprehensive, we farmthree vineyards.
Now we farm from original 10acres.
We farm 23 acres.
We grow over 11 differentvarieties.
(26:15):
Now Carhartt Family Wines label, our family label, is 100%
estate Carharttfruit wines crazy, sparkling fuck.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Like whatever dude like anything that I feel like,
would you put it under theumbrella of natural wines?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
or I try to.
I'm like, I think I'm in thecamp with most people of kind of
I sort of use that termsparingly now okay, yeah I try
to use that term sparingly,because I think like the idea of
natural wine in some circles iskind of getting a little bit of
a like a weird rap um, for goodreason, but kind of a weird rap
(27:25):
.
Like I'm kind of in the middleof that whole thing, like I
drink a lot of quote-unquotenatural wines right, and a lot
of them are like terrible um,honestly, yeah, they're really
bad.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I've had some really terrible ones.
I've had some amazing ones.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, it's true, right like anyways, we can get
on that topic anytime, but Idon't call them natural wines, I
would.
I would say, yes, there are afew wines that I make that are
sort of like zero, zero wines orzero wines, in other words, I
don't know.
Additives I put on the labelnothing added, nothing taken
away when I um I like that whenI make wine.
(28:00):
That is just without any, anyadditions of any kind and no
sulfur, like I just put nothingout of nothing taken away, and
that's that's kind of the idea,right, and I get that.
That to some people meansnatural wine, but I think,
unfortunately, natural wine isnow the name is carrying this
connotation of being like superfunky and kind of like weird.
(28:24):
And I'm not saying that some ofmy wines aren't funky or aren't
weird, but they sure as shitare not full of like classical
wine faults.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, and that's the issue that I got.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, right, like a little va from time to time is
okay.
Um, certain times oxidation isactually like certain wine
styles it can be okay.
Brett can be okay in certainparts of the world it has been
in traditional wine circles.
I just am not into the like nooffense like the people that get
into this game that have onlybeen making, that have never
(28:58):
made wine before and thinkthey're like expert marketers
and like get in and like makethis crazy wine and and just
like are playing into the fat ofnatural wine and it's full,
it's fucked up and they thinkthat they can get away.
And they are getting away withit a little bit.
I.
But also I kind of support someof that because I'm almost like
(29:20):
if it brings another personinto wine, then I almost am cool
with it too.
So I I guess I I hesitate to betoo hard-lined on any of that
stuff because I'm also so, I'mso passionate about bringing
more people into wine, andparticularly the younger
generation, that I almost wouldsay like I don't care what the
(29:42):
cost is, even if they come in,because they're just like amped
on this, like kind of shittynatural wine.
Yeah, whatever it is like youknow, like you'll figure it out
over time, probably, or likeyou'll develop your own thoughts
.
Wine is subjective.
If you love that, great, I'mnot.
I know I can explain veryclearly why certain wines are
good and why other wines are notright according to me, okay,
(30:05):
but you know so yeah I don'tcall, I don't call venture wines
necessarily natural wines.
Some of them, though, again, um,you know, if people, if, if
that's what like makes peoplewant to buy the wine because
it's like a natural wine, thenyeah, I guess it's a fucking
natural wine dude.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like sure, buy it.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I guess it's a natural wine if that means to
you, but I hesitate a little bit, um, but yeah, anyways, that's
kind of where we're at are youstill doing cause you were doing
like an import label?
Oh, okay, yeah.
So um, yeah, I did that for acouple of minutes I just did it
for a couple of minutes that Ihaven't been back to South
Africa after 2020.
That's why but, um, yeah, uh,the reason that got started was
(30:46):
I was and that's something Iprobably would love to continue
at some point in my life but Iwas.
I worked I've worked fivevintages in south africa and
very shortly after doing a fewvintages abroad, I was like damn
, I'm making like no money.
And in south africa I wasprobably close to losing money,
(31:07):
because the daily rate of pay isis so low that it's it's almost
like you're losing money.
I have enough to live but, Iwasn't accumulating enough money
to like pay for my plane flighthome type thing.
So like it was kind of like Iwas losing, um, and that's okay,
like at a certain point in life, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And you should do that you should lose for a while
.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
And then it gets to a point where it's like I have a
whole business back home, like Idon't think I can afford to to
lose like this.
Yeah, so financially.
So I was like, um, I asked thewinemaker for storm wines uh,
south Africa Hannes, who is agood friend of mine, him and his
(31:49):
wife, natalia, and um, they, uh, you know, I was like, hey, if
I come over there and workvintage with you and bring
someone with me to um right fromhere, like introduce, you know,
bring, bring, help, soessentially supply you with with
harvest work, can I make somewine?
And we agreed on what we wantedto do and that was the idea,
(32:12):
kind of a little bit like that.
And we ended up in 2018 making amulti-Appalachian Pinot Noir
from Chimelenarda, which is coolclimate.
It's like the honestly, I think, one of the best regions in
South Africa and the WesternCape.
But it's also cool climate.
It's maritime influenced.
(32:39):
So multi-appalachian pinot noirand single vineyard syrah from
the lowest appalachian, theclosest to the coastline it's
about a mile and a half from theocean.
Okay, just yeah fucking gnarly,like I've never seen a lot of
grapes being grown that close tothe ocean.
I mean, it's very rare and uh.
So, yeah, we um did that in2018 and then imported it back
into the us in like end of 19and sold that.
And then I did that again in2020, um, because I I just
(33:07):
didn't do it in 19 because itwas like the first time we'd
done the project, and then in2020 I did it again and then we
sold through that and I didn'tgo back after 20.
2020 is my last vintage abroadbecause of covid and life also
got kind of serious, but coviddefinitely fucked it up yeah, um
, you're a busy dude, yeah andlike.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, it just kind of like it didn't like set, you
know.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
It just kind of like knocked us all off the tracks a
little bit with stuff.
But yeah, the label is Cargo.
It was a little bit of a collablabel that I did with an
importing company in SoCalcalled Argo.
Really great, Really great.
That's a little plug for them.
I mean, they're amazing, alittle great importing and
distribution company out ofCosta Mesa and, yeah, we brought
(33:52):
those wines in.
They, they were great to workwith and, um, it was a way it
was ultimately supposed to be, away, not just it was a little
bit of a justification for megoing over there and working,
but also mainly it was like howcan I show people South African
wines?
How can I expose South Africa toat least my network of people?
Um, from the lens of me as awinemaker who you trust already,
(34:15):
yeah, so, like that is kind ofactually my dream and eventually
, like I would love to travelaround the world and and I would
love to continue the operationhere and I would love to travel
to other regions and help createwines in more undiscovered
regions with people and then beable to bring those wines back
(34:35):
and import them back and sellthem under the context of hey,
you trust me, you understandthat I'm not going to be
producing bad wines and I havereasons for how.
I want, you know, I come from aproduction.
I'm not a psalm, right, no.
But like I come from aproduction background, like and
I'm not going to spin like amarketing story Like I have real
(34:59):
reasons for the place, time forthe, I have real reasons for
where I go and why I go Rightand like I don't know.
I think that's that's theunique.
That was the unique angle for meis like trust someone in
production you know, for knowingwhat chemistry is and how wines
are made, not just what thefinal product is, but how we got
there, right, uh.
(35:20):
And so, yeah, it was, it wasreally great and people got to,
uh, experience south africa winethrough, through, um, I think,
my, you know, my, my lens, so tospeak, and the goal was
accomplished.
It was albeit on small scale,but the goal was accomplished.
We did like 150 cases of pinotand 100 cases of syrah.
(35:40):
It wasn't big, it's not nothing, but it wasn't big.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Um, but I'd love to, I'd love to do it again, but at
the moment that project is onpause okay, yeah, yeah, um,
because cause I getting close tothe end for the episode, uh,
but do you want to plug anythingLike where can people find you?
Uh, where can they find yourwines?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Oh man, um well, I'll , I do, we didn't.
I want to just like givecontext to for, like, what we do
.
Um so, just because I thinkcontext, that's how I really
usually start every conversationwith anybody that I meet um we
do now about between 7,000 and7,500 cases annually.
(36:24):
It's like 90,000 bottles um,which you know, to a lot of
people is like how big is that?
They have no idea Right.
Um, that's a really small wineryon a global context.
I think a lot of people wouldfeel that way.
I mean, we have wineries in SanYnez that are producing 3000
cases, so 7,500 is not reallytiny, but it's globally.
(36:47):
It is like barely a blip on theradar.
Yeah then, but the part that'slike kind of unique in that is
that we now, you know prettymuch for the last handful of
years more, we've produced over30 different wines between the
venture and car family wineslabel.
So 30, 35 different wines,something like that.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
So 30 wines, not 30 grape varieties.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
I probably do grape varieties 17 to 20 annually and
Venture Label.
I usually work with differentgrape varieties every year, but,
yeah, so that's a lot ofbreakdown.
We do 25 cases of one andGrenache is our largest
production at 700 cases, whichis still really small.
(37:32):
Grenache is like our largestproduction at like 700 cases,
which is still really small.
Yeah, and then I guess whatfurther separates us is we're
still and we've been this wayfor close to a decade I'd say a
little less than a decade, butwe're 100% direct consumer.
So we don't sell our winesanywhere no restaurants, no wine
bars, no markets.
We're 100% direct to theconsumer through our tasting
(37:55):
room, which is in Los Olivos,online, do a fair amount of
e-commerce, and then our wineclub, which is like that's.
You know, a lot of companieshave a wine club, but we're over
70% distributed directly to agroup of people yeah, which is
(38:17):
awesome, awesome, they'reamazing.
Group, um and uh, they've beenvery supportive and so that's
that's kind of my ultimate dreamis just continue with wine club
.
Yeah, like, I have nodistribution is not like my goal
.
Contrary to most parts of theworld, most winemakers,
distribution is a big part oftheir business and also
(38:37):
something that they love.
I don't love distribution yeah,I would consider it in certain
instances, but I don't love it.
Um, I love direct consumerbecause I love relationships,
yeah, and I like trust andloyalty and understanding and,
in today's world, knowingexactly where wine comes from
and that sort of stuff is reallyimportant.
(38:58):
Um and yeah, so that's that's.
You can buy our wines byjoining the club, which is what
I think is the best, because wethrow epic parties and a lot of
cool events and the tastingrooms open 364 days a year in
Los Olivos, um, or you can justbuy them online.
You can hit us up on any of oursocial channels or email us or
(39:22):
any of that Um, and we're we'reout there to educate and help,
like what you're trying to dowith this podcast and what we're
, what you are doing, I shouldsay, and what we're you know
doing with our social and stuff,is to try and educate and give
people sort of the truth.
Yeah, totally, and it's coming,you know, from right here, man.
I mean it's still family farmedLike that.
(39:43):
Shit's hard to have your ownestate fruit and be making wine
and be running a direct consumeroperation.
It takes every ounce of mybeing every single day basically
, and but that's what we sort of.
It's also the dream in many,many senses so yeah, that's what
we do, um, you know, like Isaid, venture is now very
(40:05):
experimental.
I mean, I was making some wineslike every year kind of thing,
and now I think I have like twowines that I make consistently
under venture label andeverything else are one offs.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
So like I just make one one year and that's it, like
I don't make it again kind ofthing Like all of them are like
unique pieces of art for thatsingle vintage and I just I
don't want anything to beconsistent and I don't want
people to um, I don't wantpeople to feel comfortable with
it yeah right like I don't.
(40:39):
I'm not interested in that.
I'm interested in peoplefeeling like they are excited
for the unknown right, that'syeah, and then that's it, and
you're challenging people too.
Yes, I want you to drink thosewines and be like, damn, this is
good and I've wines and be likedamn this is good, and I've
never had this variety before.
Or damn, this is good and I'venever heard of this grape or
this style or this method.
(41:01):
Or I can't believe this is anunsulfured wine or fuck yeah,
any of that stuff.
Like I want to expose people tosomething and you know,
sometimes those wines are alittle bit more abrasive, not
because they're not made well,but like sometimes people aren't
going to dig all the styles,yeah, and I'm totally cool with
(41:23):
that, because if I'm not doingthat, I'm probably still not
going hard enough.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Yeah, and if they don't want to be challenged,
they want to be comfortable andthey want to just way.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
but I mean, we're also coming out with new estate
(41:55):
wines that people have neverseen before.
Still, yeah like we justreleased graciano.
I mean, we've been growing thatsince 2017 it's our first time.
We just released the 19, liketwo weeks ago, you know like the
19 yeah 19.
Hey, I helped make that one.
Yeah, there you go, hell yeah Idid some work on it.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, well, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, it's up at the tasting room, so you'll go and
taste that.
There's actually a lot of 19sthat are being released right
now.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Wayward Sun up there, San Bernardino's.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Pinot yeah, that one was pretty consistent for a
while.
Yeah, there's a fair amount.
I mean 19 merlot, 19 there's alot of 19s that are, like just
now, hitting our kind of, andthat's that's intentional.
Yeah, if I was, if anotherwinery was saying that I'm
always skeptical, like fucking19s, what are you guys doing?
Not selling wine?
(42:43):
but we're actually intentionalwith how we hold back a lot of
wines now yeah so we'd like toif keep them in in bottle for a
year, year and a half, sometimestwo years, sometimes more, just
like it's been a long road, butwe've finally gotten there,
because it's the best way toshow those wines.
Yeah, it's amazing, finally,you know.
(43:03):
So that's really cool,absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, one quick thing .
I mean, when I first started inthe wine industry, I with you,
uh, in the tasting room and, um,I didn't know jack shit about
wine at all, but I was workingthe taste room, I served before
and the one wine that opened mymind and showed me that there's
a lot of depth and complexity inthe world of wine was the
(43:28):
grenache.
Um, that was kind of like myaha bottle of wine where I was
like, oh my god, like all I knewwas like peanut warmer, low.
That's all I fucking knew yeahand when I was working in the
tasting room.
I would work on the weekdayswhen I first started and it'd be
slow, and so I'd spend most ofmy time reading wine folly and
(43:48):
trying to learn about the winesthat I was, I didn't know about
and I was trying to sell them.
Yeah, and that just broadened myhorizons completely.
And then I was like, oh my God,this is actually really
interesting, like there's a lotof depth in all these wines,
there's complexity.
I need to find out more aboutwine, and that's when I asked
(44:09):
you if I could do a harvest inin 2019.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
And so yeah, man yeah , grenache is our yeah you know
kind of house wine.
Now I like to think so.
I'm glad that that's the one,that I didn't know that.
But that's cool and still it'sstill bomb yeah, man still 21
just came out.
I mean it's amazing, it'sfucking killer, yeah yeah, all
right, man.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Well, hey guys check the show notes because we will
have, um, all of carhartt familywines.
Uh, their website, theirsocials in the show notes.
So go there, buy some wine,join the wine club.
Thanks for coming, chase.
Absolutely, cheers, buddy.
Thank you, dude, give you alittle fist bump good to see you
man cheers Bye.
Bung pod.
Welcome back, wine Wonderboy.
And we got Jazzy J.
Jazzy, what is a bung?
The hole of the barrel iscalled a bung hole.
Inside the bung hole is calleda bung Wine with mayhem.
That's what it's about.
All right, welcome back to theBung Pod.
(00:22):
It's your boy, ian King, akaWine Wonderboy in the building.
Jazzy J is not here right now,but I did a little traveling.
I'm down here in Santa Barbara,the birthplace of my wine
career, with my friend and Iwould say mentor as well, chase
(00:45):
Carhart.
Welcome, chase, what's?
happening, thanks for coming tothe pod man.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Really appreciate it.
So all the fan base for theBung Pod knows I reference
Carhart exhaustively sometimesin the pod.
So I felt it only right forthem to meet you and for you to
express kind of like whatCarhartt's all about, what you
guys do, from your greatvarieties to your inspirations
(01:17):
behind your wines as well.
So with that, what's your winebackground?
Like Like how'd you startgetting into this?
And like why are you here?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Good question and also one that I do.
I get asked a lot and also, Ithink, maybe some common
misconception around howgenerations get into wine.
I don't know about everybodyelse, but I speak for myself.
I mean, you know, my parentsplanted our vineyard in 1996 and
um for first vintage in 98.
(01:51):
Uh, in 90, I mean I was born in89, so at the time, you know, I
was nine years old.
So essentially like as theystarted to get their start in
wine and in grape growing, I wasreasonably young and kind of
came up as they were coming up,um, or just, like you know, got
older in the business, um, whenthey plant their first.
(02:12):
96 was when we planted sevenacres of merlot and three acres
of syrah, okay, on the, on themace up there and um, yeah, so I
mean, I remember when planted,I remember being up there as a
kid, like when there was nothingup there, um, but yeah, I guess
.
I guess the point of that is Igrew up in it and I think it's
(02:35):
kind of interesting to a lot ofpeople think like, oh, you were
like born to do this or youmust've known from a young age
that you wanted to do this, andthat is like just simply not
true at all.
How can you?
I've always thought, like howthat's just not typical for a
young kid to be, like I want tobe a winemaker when I grew up.
I mean maybe that happens, yeah, and who knows.
(02:58):
But generally speaking, it'slike I want to be a astronaut, I
want to be a firefighter likenot, I want to make alcohol at
seven years old, you know, notreally knowing the full thing.
So anyways, like yeah, I mean Iwas quite frankly.
I mean yeah, I grew up in itand was involved in the winery
and involved in winemaking andall that stuff and seeing my dad
(03:18):
farming and all that stuff wasreally cool.
But I mean in high school Ijust did a talk at my high
school the other day actually,and talked to some students like
I am not a natural genius interms of school stuff okay, yeah
, like that's not myacademically, academically like
(03:40):
I'm not a high sat score typeguy.
That is not.
I am not good at, probably attests.
Generally I'm not a high SATscore, I'm a hard worker.
So I got very good marks inschool all throughout my school
career because all I did wasjust like work as hard as I
could.
You know why?
(04:00):
I'm not really sure, for somereason, but I, um, I just worked
as hard as I could, probablybecause my parents pushed me to
do that.
Um, but anyways, the point ofthat is when I was getting close
to graduating high school andyou know, like applying to
colleges, like I was, there wasa big division Like I was like
okay, well, kind of.
I was like I applied to CalPoly, san Luis Obispo for
(04:23):
winemaking, for a degree inwinemaking, but wine and
viticulture being the title, andthen I also applied to like a
variety of schools, mostly inCalifornia, not all, but mostly
in California, I would say,primarily for international
business.
That was the kind of goal forme and I felt at the time that
(04:46):
that was what I deserved.
Okay yeah because I'd worked sohard in high school and I
quickly well, I don't sayquickly, but I realized over
time that that was just likealso, I think, kind of
ridiculous and that was likemore societal.
(05:06):
That that was put on me, yeah,that I should be going to like
an ivy league school or someshit, right, like that was not
of interest, that really doesn'tmean anything.
I ended up going to cal poly,ended up choosing cal poly, um,
because I was like you know,there is a really good base in
this whole wine game.
It is something I'm interestedin.
Yeah, I just didn't know ifthat was like my.
You know, there is a reallygood base in this whole wine
game.
It is something I'm interestedin I just didn't know if that
was like my forever, but it issomething I'm interested in, so
(05:30):
let's give it a go.
I ended up getting into CalPoly in San Luis Obispo and my
college career there was amazingand essentially what I
discovered, you know, was that Iwas enjoying it more and more.
It was definitely like, as Istarted getting into details, it
(05:52):
was like, oh shit, this is likethere's a lot to this.
Yeah, it's very hard to master,it's unmasterable, that's kind
of cool.
And then what really set myentire career off, I would say
quite frankly, was in my thirdyear and I tell everybody this
because this is like this is themost important thing I think in
(06:13):
anybody's career personally, ifyou can, if you're the right
age or really just any point inyour career.
In my third year at Cal Poly,they forced you to do a
practical and every otherstudent was like I'm going to
work in slow, I'm going to workin Paso and I'm going to take
classes at the same time and Iwant to work at all the same
fucking wineries and all thisstuff.
(06:34):
And I was like it was like themost confusing concept to me,
like you're working in yourbackyard and taking classes at
the same time.
That means you're going tograduate faster, yeah, and I was
like why, well, for me, wineand vit.
Like dude, I was like thisrules.
Like I've grown up my lifeworking, like when I was at
(06:57):
school.
Like dude, my parents weren'tthere to be.
Like, what are you doing?
What are you getting done thisweekend?
Like, what kind of work are youputting in with the ranch?
Yeah, the winery.
Like, yeah, I was at school so Iwas like dude, I got plenty of
other cool shit I can do like Iwas on my own man, yeah.
So I was like I'm not trying tospeed this up, I know what my
life's gonna look like at somepoint.
(07:19):
I know what it looks like if Igo back home which don't't get
me wrong, I don't dislike butI'm going to milk an opportunity
when I see one Right.
And so, yeah, I just was.
Uh, anyways, my third year, allthese students doing that.
I was like that's not for me.
Um, I have a friend, uh, herein Santinez or in storm, storm
(07:39):
wines, and he's South African.
And, um, he was like.
He was like we were chattingabout it and he was like do you
want to do a harvest in SouthAfrica?
And I was like hell, yeah,africa.
Like, like, is that like lionsand tigers and bears running?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
around on the street Like what's that like?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Um, I had no knowledge.
You know I'm being a little bitfacetious, but you get what I'm
saying.
Like I had no concept of whatlife, winemaking, anything,
culture, nothing was like inSouth Africa.
Yeah, and it just soundedexotic and an adventure.
And so I went winter quarter atCal Poly.
I took off and flew in air,turned 21, landed in Cape Town
(08:22):
on my 21st birthday.
Wow in air, turned 21, landed inCape town on my 21st birthday
and touched down and was like Ifelt I know this is going to
sound weird, but I still getchills thinking about it Like I
felt this like vibration when Ihit the ground, when I touched
the ground with my feet and Iwas like.
I felt like this sense ofbelonging and almost a sense of
(08:45):
being at home and for me thathas never occurred to me
anywhere else but the San YnezValley, ever anywhere in the
world that I've ever been.
And anyways, touched down inSouth Africa and literally dude,
like I mean not to make a longstory too long, but like got my.
These were the iPod days I hadan iPod yeah.
(09:09):
Got my iPod stolen within 24hours just by being an idiot and
leaving it places.
Got it stolen by the people Iwas going to work with for the
next three months, like someonetook it oh shit, you know, but
they have nothing and uh, justthrough a series of events and
just like ended up landing inthis cool place, like right on
(09:31):
the beach.
I was working for a winery upin the himalayan arda and I was
the only intern for this familycompany and the bottom line is
dude, like that.
That trip changed my life.
It changed how I look at wine,it changed how I view the
industry and basically what Irealized during that trip is
(09:52):
like dude, you can travel forwine and work in other parts of
the world for wine in a milliondifferent capacities, and I can.
I was able to be like dude, I'mgonna do.
I was just like I'm gonna dothis for as long as I can.
Yeah, and my dad's?
You know, I was always thinkingabout my dad, like he's not
gonna be able to say shit to mebecause I'm working.
Yeah, I'm honing my skill set,so like I can go fuck off for
(10:16):
four months and like, not really, you know work, but I can also
experience culture and food andlife.
And Africa was like dude, dude,mind blowing.
I mean, that place makes youfeel alive Like no, no other
place, man, definitely.
And so I did that.
I came back to Cal Poly achanged man and, um, I never
(10:39):
looked back.
And then I basically spent thenext not in, not every single
year the next 10th decadetraveling to mostly the southern
hemisphere not entirely, butmostly southern hemisphere um
every almost every year.
Uh, there was a couple yearswhere I worked three harvests in
a year.
Um, how's that work?
It works by.
(10:59):
Yeah, so, like I did so I did2015 march, I flew to tasmania,
so off the coast of australia,did a, did a harvest in tasmania
, came back in summer, worked umfall with my family, made one
(11:22):
here, fall of 15, and then earlyharvest january, flew over
mid-january 2016 to south africacool climate, so mainly pinot
and chardonnay with storm winesand finished in like late feb so
ina 12 month year I did three,
three v.
That's crazy and that was kindof like my.
(11:44):
I mean this is not uncommon.
Right In in in business, Um, ifyou can triple, double or
triple your opportunity, rightwhen most people take one
opportunity a year, it's harvest, it's one time a year I was
doubling or tripling down everyyear.
So my experience double ortripled, um over a 10 year
period Like, yeah, I mean duh,and I got to travel the world
(12:09):
and see things and I did thatuntil 2020 and then COVID hit
and life got real and reallyreal.
But all the while I was buildingbusiness here with my parents
and so all of this, just go back.
It was just a culmination of alot of things and I was learning
about sales, I was learningabout production, I was learning
about viticulture, I waslearning about dealing with
(12:31):
different cultures,communication.
Just inherent in that was justmanagement.
I mean I was coming into a lotof these sellers, not entirely,
but like with experience that alot of the other seller interns
didn't have Right, Because theydidn't have their own family
business or they weren'tmanaging employees at the time,
or they didn't have as big arobust of direct consumer
business as we did.
(12:52):
So you know, I was probably.
I'd like to think that I mademade my value very apparent very
early on, because I'm justgoing to get in.
I was the, I was proud to bethe epitome of the American
muscle.
Yeah, you go into anothercountry everybody's kind of it's
fun.
Man, you live in a house with abunch of people from a bunch of
(13:14):
different cultures and you getin.
That's cool.
How are you going to defineyourself?
I define myself by being,straight up, american muscle.
I'm going to get in here andoutwork everybody.
Yeah, and I like that it muscle.
Like I'm gonna get in here andoutwork everybody, yeah, and I
like that, like it was fun in acool way, like in a very like,
yeah, good way.
But yeah, you gotta it's, it'sa fun deal to get out there and
like, get thrown in the mix witha bunch of people and be like,
(13:34):
how are you gonna come out?
You know it's like it's ajungle, yeah, and like I love
that shit, I really do.
And, uh, I miss it.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I miss being able to do that, but you know all right,
let's take a quick break for asecond, because I got something
I want to tell you guys about.
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(14:03):
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Now let's get back to the show.
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(14:24):
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Now let's get back to the show.
I mean, I almost went toTasmania one year.
I called you and it was in 21,I believe I wasn't able to go
because it was just after COVIDand Australia wasn't letting
anyone in.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, it was a tough time time, yeah, so I wasn't
able to go, but, um man, thattravel experience.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
That's one thing.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Cool about the wine industry you can do, though, is
like do a harvest in you knowtwo places of the world in one
year dude 100 and get so muchexperience yeah, and also just
like I think I again, I thinkpeople ask me the, the just to
bank off of that right, liketraveling for wine and working a
(15:35):
vintage somewhere else, or justjust it doesn't matter what
part of the industry you're in.
In my opinion, production, sureyeah.
But even if you were like youknow what, I'm gonna go over to
this part of the world and workin a wine shop, or I'm gonna go
this part of world and be likewine distribution, I don't know,
whatever you can find, yeah, tome it's psychological too right
(16:00):
, like it's a study of humanbeings, it's the, the study of
decision-making.
Like I know how to like by 2017, 2018, I've been doing this a
long time Like I know how wine'smade.
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm not saying that you don'tlearn tricks and like really
cool stuff, but I wasn'tstudying that at that point.
I wasn't studying how wine ismade.
(16:22):
I was I'm no offense like allthe places I've been.
Like there's a little bit ofdifferent treatment of stuff,
for sure, but that's differenttreatment of grapes in that
particular part of the world, soit's very specific to that area
too it doesn't mean you canjust take that trick and bring
it back to your place.
People make this mistake all thetime.
Bring it back home and just useit.
(16:43):
You got to refine that base offyour own situation, your own
set of terroir, if you want to.
So, what I was doing which Ithink is the smart thing in my
opinion, because this has helpedme more than anything is
studying the minds and studyinga winemaker's decision-making
processes.
(17:03):
Studying how they react toscenarios, analyses, studying
how they react to scenarios, notjust because of who they are as
a person, but how they assess aproblem, particularly problems.
So if we get really bad rain inthe middle of harvest and we've
got white, tight, clusteredwhite grapes hanging, or like
you got chardonnay out there andmildew starts to happen, or
(17:27):
just a variety of issues likethat, right, like I've seen bad
shit happen and south africa isa perfect example of where
there's four seasons in one daylike all sorts of shit can
happen.
So, seeing how people do that,seeing how culture, how work
culture is I've never been toanother country and a story
period that works like we workin the US, that harvests like we
(17:49):
harvest, that has the samementality for work, right, it,
just it's very different.
And then culturally too, how doyou, what does it feel like to
work with a bunch of Frenchpeople or Italian people or
Spanish people or Argentiniansor any of that stuff?
Like, what is that?
What does that look like andhow do they relate to what we're
(18:13):
doing, to the process of whatwe're doing?
So to me again, it's it's notnecessarily just the, just the
actual I, just the actual thing,it's how we're going about.
That thing that I was studyingand I think um sort of
consciously and andsubconsciously that has affected
(18:35):
who I am.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Is it true?
I heard this?
I'm not sure, but in SouthAfrica, is it true that their
number one pest for vineyardsare baboons?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, a living thing.
Yeah, I mean I would say thatthat is a real, real threat.
That is a legitimate threat.
Do they eat the grapes or domore than that?
Eating the grapes is likereally, actually, I mean almost
the least of it, like I haveseen a tribe of baboons like
come through vineyard.
I mean, I don't know if theycall them a tribe or troop, I
(19:10):
can't really remember, butwhatever, um you know, there can
be 15, there can be like 100,and they are agile and they are
strong and they are just lawlesshow do you get rid of them?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I mean shoot like no no one shoots them there.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Most of the people that I was encountered don't
shoot them, but they will shootlike can air cannons or guns
scare them away, to scare them,yeah, yeah, or dogs, something,
um, you know that's.
It's the same thing over there.
Like most people aren't likelike really, you know like for
like going and actually killingthese animals, like that's not
the idea, yeah.
But they're aggressive.
(19:54):
They will go through a vineyardand not just eat the grapes,
they will snap cordons snapbranches I mean we're talking
about complete decimating anentire block or an entire
vineyard.
Yeah, it's really bad.
Like entire block or an entirevineyard.
Yeah, it's really bad.
Like they don't have a problemwith that.
(20:14):
They'll break into people'shomes, go into the cupboards,
take out cans, smash the cans onthe ground and just completely
like destroy places becausethat's how they are, you know,
that's how they, that they move.
That's insane.
Yeah, so that kind of pest Imean is, I mean it makes us and
like our deer problem.
The closest thing I would sayhere is like is like hogs, like
wild boar.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Oh right, wild pigs Central coast?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, we have really bad issues in certain parts of
the central coast with wild pigsRight they will go through and
really screw up vineyards yeah.
But I would say that baboonsare probably the worst pests I
have ever seen in the worldanywhere.
Easily, yeah, and everybody'sdifferent.
I didn't see any pests inArgentina.
I didn't see any pests inFrance.
(20:58):
They basically have nothing.
They have like a little bit ofdeer.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
They barely even had bird issues.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I mean, we have bird issues here.
Yeah, that's why we net yeah.
But a lot of places don't haveyou know as bad a bird issues.
But yeah, it was.
Yeah, it's crazy dude, so let'stalk about the elephant in the
room real quick for the peoplelistening.
Your last name is carhartt.
Your winery is called carharttfamily wines.
What's the connection betweenthe clothing company and your
(21:26):
family and this winery?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It's a great question .
I mean, I would be asking thatquestion too.
So my great-great-grandfatherHamilton Carhartt, I basically
started Carhartt Clothing in1889.
It was really actually a coupleyears before that, but the
(21:53):
formal date is 1889 um, inmichigan, detroit, and uh,
basically he had I mean to maketo try and keep it short he had
a couple of kids, hamilton jrand wiley.
You know, hamilton Jr ended upcoming out to the West coast and
Wiley stayed back and HamiltonJr is my great grandfather so
(22:16):
not my great great, but mygrandfather and he came out to
West coast, pasadena area, andthen my grandfather was born in
Pasadena, and my dad wasactually born in Pasadena too at
it, but in a very, very earlyage came up here to Rancho San
Ynez and then I was born here.
So, that side of the family.
Basically that's how we endedup on the West coast and my
other side of my family, um, isthe, the the Wiley side, if you
(22:41):
want to call it that but we alltrace back to Hamilton.
Um, they still are in Detroitand they still own Carhartt
clothing and it's privately heldand they're amazing and we're
super good friends.
But in terms of likerelationship to Carhartt
clothing, carhartt family linesis just familial.
(23:02):
We carry the name um, but it'sa family so not business related
or financially evolved correct?
yeah, so we don't.
Um, we're completely separatebusinesses in every single way
you could imagine.
Yeah, um, we have noinvolvement in car clothing
other than me basically wearingthe clothes every single day and
(23:23):
working in them and, uh, familyback east drinking our wines.
They make the clothes, I wearthem.
We make the wine they drink it.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's symbiotic, it's a good relationship.
Yeah, it's a great relationship.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
And they're family and they're amazing.
I have a very, very smallfamily and we're very close with
them and my cousins out thereare my age and we're all kind of
in the same place in life andit's awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, that's rad, yeah, so with Carhartt Family
Wines you guys do a lot ofdifferent great varieties.
You yourself, I mean you makelike wines for three labels
technically three, yeah, I wouldsay technically two labels,
technically two, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
So Carhartt Family Wines is.
It's grown over the years.
Right, it used to just beCarhartt Vineyard.
It was like that for a longtime.
We had one vineyard.
That's what my parents planted.
Yeah, that's when I started here, yep, and as it grew, it grew,
we started planting a little bitmore estate excuse me, estate,
(24:28):
fruit, um, and basically it'skind of yeah, so I was traveling
at that same time, right, sothis is all kind of coming
together.
But, um, as car vineyard wasgrowing and as our plantings
were growing and as we weremaking a little bit more wine,
um, we, uh, I was also travelingabroad.
(24:48):
And so, in 2016, I started asecond label called Carhartt
Venture, and Venture label isthis is the way that I define
them but Carhartt is our kind ofa state brand and Venture is
our progressive, moreexperimental brand.
And I started Carhartt Venturebecause I was traveling these
other countries and had allthese crazy ideas and
experiments I wanted to do, andI didn't want to do them with
(25:10):
Carhartt Vineyard at the timebecause I didn't want to change
the style that my mom haddeveloped.
So my mom has been thewinemaker and now we co-winemake
, but she was the winemaker inthe beginning.
She started it with my dad, whowas the head viticulturalist,
and I didn't want to mess withthat.
Like I really liked it, we'dbuilt a wine club off of that.
(25:31):
I love the style.
I love the idea.
That was consistency in our ownstyle and I didn't want to mess
with that.
You know it's what people havebeen trusting.
So I wanted like a clean slateand that's why venture was
started.
Um, and then in like I guesslike 21, we finally launched I
(25:53):
think it was 21.
We finally launched Carharttfamily wines, which is a rebrand
of basically our entireoperation.
Um, and I'd been waiting to dothat for a long time.
I'd been working on it foryears and years, so finally
launched the rebrand Carharttfamily wines.
More comprehensive, we farmthree vineyards.
Now we farm from original 10acres.
We farm 23 acres.
We grow over 11 differentvarieties.
(26:15):
Now Carhartt Family Wines label, our family label, is 100%
estate Carharttfruit wines crazy, sparkling fuck.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Like whatever dude like anything that I feel like,
would you put it under theumbrella of natural wines?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
or I try to.
I'm like, I think I'm in thecamp with most people of kind of
I sort of use that termsparingly now okay, yeah I try
to use that term sparingly,because I think like the idea of
natural wine in some circles iskind of getting a little bit of
a like a weird rap um, for goodreason, but kind of a weird rap
(27:25):
.
Like I'm kind of in the middleof that whole thing, like I
drink a lot of quote-unquotenatural wines right, and a lot
of them are like terrible um,honestly, yeah, they're really
bad.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I've had some really terrible ones.
I've had some amazing ones.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, it's true, right like anyways, we can get
on that topic anytime, but Idon't call them natural wines, I
would.
I would say, yes, there are afew wines that I make that are
sort of like zero, zero wines orzero wines, in other words, I
don't know.
Additives I put on the labelnothing added, nothing taken
away when I um I like that whenI make wine.
(28:00):
That is just without any, anyadditions of any kind and no
sulfur, like I just put nothingout of nothing taken away, and
that's that's kind of the idea,right, and I get that.
That to some people meansnatural wine, but I think,
unfortunately, natural wine isnow the name is carrying this
connotation of being like superfunky and kind of like weird.
(28:24):
And I'm not saying that some ofmy wines aren't funky or aren't
weird, but they sure as shitare not full of like classical
wine faults.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, and that's the issue that I got.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, right, like a little va from time to time is
okay.
Um, certain times oxidation isactually like certain wine
styles it can be okay.
Brett can be okay in certainparts of the world it has been
in traditional wine circles.
I just am not into the like nooffense like the people that get
into this game that have onlybeen making, that have never
(28:58):
made wine before and thinkthey're like expert marketers
and like get in and like makethis crazy wine and and just
like are playing into the fat ofnatural wine and it's full,
it's fucked up and they thinkthat they can get away.
And they are getting away withit a little bit.
I.
But also I kind of support someof that because I'm almost like
(29:20):
if it brings another personinto wine, then I almost am cool
with it too.
So I I guess I I hesitate to betoo hard-lined on any of that
stuff because I'm also so, I'mso passionate about bringing
more people into wine, andparticularly the younger
generation, that I almost wouldsay like I don't care what the
(29:42):
cost is, even if they come in,because they're just like amped
on this, like kind of shittynatural wine.
Yeah, whatever it is like youknow, like you'll figure it out
over time, probably, or likeyou'll develop your own thoughts
.
Wine is subjective.
If you love that, great, I'mnot.
I know I can explain veryclearly why certain wines are
good and why other wines are notright according to me, okay,
(30:05):
but you know so yeah I don'tcall, I don't call venture wines
necessarily natural wines.
Some of them, though, again, um,you know, if people, if, if
that's what like makes peoplewant to buy the wine because
it's like a natural wine, thenyeah, I guess it's a fucking
natural wine dude.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like sure, buy it.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I guess it's a natural wine if that means to
you, but I hesitate a little bit, um, but yeah, anyways, that's
kind of where we're at are youstill doing cause you were doing
like an import label?
Oh, okay, yeah.
So um, yeah, I did that for acouple of minutes I just did it
for a couple of minutes that Ihaven't been back to South
Africa after 2020.
That's why but, um, yeah, uh,the reason that got started was
(30:46):
I was and that's something Iprobably would love to continue
at some point in my life but Iwas.
I worked I've worked fivevintages in south africa and
very shortly after doing a fewvintages abroad, I was like damn
, I'm making like no money.
And in south africa I wasprobably close to losing money,
(31:07):
because the daily rate of pay isis so low that it's it's almost
like you're losing money.
I have enough to live but, Iwasn't accumulating enough money
to like pay for my plane flighthome type thing.
So like it was kind of like Iwas losing, um, and that's okay,
like at a certain point in life, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And you should do that you should lose for a while
.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
And then it gets to a point where it's like I have a
whole business back home, like Idon't think I can afford to to
lose like this.
Yeah, so financially.
So I was like, um, I asked thewinemaker for storm wines uh,
south Africa Hannes, who is agood friend of mine, him and his
(31:49):
wife, natalia, and um, they, uh, you know, I was like, hey, if
I come over there and workvintage with you and bring
someone with me to um right fromhere, like introduce, you know,
bring, bring, help, soessentially supply you with with
harvest work, can I make somewine?
And we agreed on what we wantedto do and that was the idea,
(32:12):
kind of a little bit like that.
And we ended up in 2018 making amulti-Appalachian Pinot Noir
from Chimelenarda, which is coolclimate.
It's like the honestly, I think, one of the best regions in
South Africa and the WesternCape.
But it's also cool climate.
It's maritime influenced.
(32:39):
So multi-appalachian pinot noirand single vineyard syrah from
the lowest appalachian, theclosest to the coastline it's
about a mile and a half from theocean.
Okay, just yeah fucking gnarly,like I've never seen a lot of
grapes being grown that close tothe ocean.
I mean, it's very rare and uh.
So, yeah, we um did that in2018 and then imported it back
into the us in like end of 19and sold that.
And then I did that again in2020, um, because I I just
(33:07):
didn't do it in 19 because itwas like the first time we'd
done the project, and then in2020 I did it again and then we
sold through that and I didn'tgo back after 20.
2020 is my last vintage abroadbecause of covid and life also
got kind of serious, but coviddefinitely fucked it up yeah, um
, you're a busy dude, yeah andlike.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, it just kind of like it didn't like set, you
know.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
It just kind of like knocked us all off the tracks a
little bit with stuff.
But yeah, the label is Cargo.
It was a little bit of a collablabel that I did with an
importing company in SoCalcalled Argo.
Really great, Really great.
That's a little plug for them.
I mean, they're amazing, alittle great importing and
distribution company out ofCosta Mesa and, yeah, we brought
(33:52):
those wines in.
They, they were great to workwith and, um, it was a way it
was ultimately supposed to be, away, not just it was a little
bit of a justification for megoing over there and working,
but also mainly it was like howcan I show people South African
wines?
How can I expose South Africa toat least my network of people?
Um, from the lens of me as awinemaker who you trust already,
(34:15):
yeah, so, like that is kind ofactually my dream and eventually
, like I would love to travelaround the world and and I would
love to continue the operationhere and I would love to travel
to other regions and help createwines in more undiscovered
regions with people and then beable to bring those wines back
(34:35):
and import them back and sellthem under the context of hey,
you trust me, you understandthat I'm not going to be
producing bad wines and I havereasons for how.
I want, you know, I come from aproduction.
I'm not a psalm, right, no.
But like I come from aproduction background, like and
I'm not going to spin like amarketing story Like I have real
(34:59):
reasons for the place, time forthe, I have real reasons for
where I go and why I go Rightand like I don't know.
I think that's that's theunique.
That was the unique angle for meis like trust someone in
production you know, for knowingwhat chemistry is and how wines
are made, not just what thefinal product is, but how we got
there, right, uh.
(35:20):
And so, yeah, it was, it wasreally great and people got to,
uh, experience south africa winethrough, through, um, I think,
my, you know, my, my lens, so tospeak, and the goal was
accomplished.
It was albeit on small scale,but the goal was accomplished.
We did like 150 cases of pinotand 100 cases of syrah.
(35:40):
It wasn't big, it's not nothing, but it wasn't big.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Um, but I'd love to, I'd love to do it again, but at
the moment that project is onpause okay, yeah, yeah, um,
because cause I getting close tothe end for the episode, uh,
but do you want to plug anythingLike where can people find you?
Uh, where can they find yourwines?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Oh man, um well, I'll , I do, we didn't.
I want to just like givecontext to for, like, what we do
.
Um so, just because I thinkcontext, that's how I really
usually start every conversationwith anybody that I meet um we
do now about between 7,000 and7,500 cases annually.
(36:24):
It's like 90,000 bottles um,which you know, to a lot of
people is like how big is that?
They have no idea Right.
Um, that's a really small wineryon a global context.
I think a lot of people wouldfeel that way.
I mean, we have wineries in SanYnez that are producing 3000
cases, so 7,500 is not reallytiny, but it's globally.
(36:47):
It is like barely a blip on theradar.
Yeah then, but the part that'slike kind of unique in that is
that we now, you know prettymuch for the last handful of
years more, we've produced over30 different wines between the
venture and car family wineslabel.
So 30, 35 different wines,something like that.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
So 30 wines, not 30 grape varieties.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
I probably do grape varieties 17 to 20 annually and
Venture Label.
I usually work with differentgrape varieties every year, but,
yeah, so that's a lot ofbreakdown.
We do 25 cases of one andGrenache is our largest
production at 700 cases, whichis still really small.
(37:32):
Grenache is like our largestproduction at like 700 cases,
which is still really small.
Yeah, and then I guess whatfurther separates us is we're
still and we've been this wayfor close to a decade I'd say a
little less than a decade, butwe're 100% direct consumer.
So we don't sell our winesanywhere no restaurants, no wine
bars, no markets.
We're 100% direct to theconsumer through our tasting
(37:55):
room, which is in Los Olivos,online, do a fair amount of
e-commerce, and then our wineclub, which is like that's.
You know, a lot of companieshave a wine club, but we're over
70% distributed directly to agroup of people yeah, which is
(38:17):
awesome, awesome, they'reamazing.
Group, um and uh, they've beenvery supportive and so that's
that's kind of my ultimate dreamis just continue with wine club
.
Yeah, like, I have nodistribution is not like my goal
.
Contrary to most parts of theworld, most winemakers,
distribution is a big part oftheir business and also
(38:37):
something that they love.
I don't love distribution yeah,I would consider it in certain
instances, but I don't love it.
Um, I love direct consumerbecause I love relationships,
yeah, and I like trust andloyalty and understanding and,
in today's world, knowingexactly where wine comes from
and that sort of stuff is reallyimportant.
(38:58):
Um and yeah, so that's that's.
You can buy our wines byjoining the club, which is what
I think is the best, because wethrow epic parties and a lot of
cool events and the tastingrooms open 364 days a year in
Los Olivos, um, or you can justbuy them online.
You can hit us up on any of oursocial channels or email us or
(39:22):
any of that Um, and we're we'reout there to educate and help,
like what you're trying to dowith this podcast and what we're
, what you are doing, I shouldsay, and what we're you know
doing with our social and stuff,is to try and educate and give
people sort of the truth.
Yeah, totally, and it's coming,you know, from right here, man.
I mean it's still family farmedLike that.
(39:43):
Shit's hard to have your ownestate fruit and be making wine
and be running a direct consumeroperation.
It takes every ounce of mybeing every single day basically
, and but that's what we sort of.
It's also the dream in many,many senses so yeah, that's what
we do, um, you know, like Isaid, venture is now very
(40:05):
experimental.
I mean, I was making some wineslike every year kind of thing,
and now I think I have like twowines that I make consistently
under venture label andeverything else are one offs.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
So like I just make one one year and that's it, like
I don't make it again kind ofthing Like all of them are like
unique pieces of art for thatsingle vintage and I just I
don't want anything to beconsistent and I don't want
people to um, I don't wantpeople to feel comfortable with
it yeah right like I don't.
(40:39):
I'm not interested in that.
I'm interested in peoplefeeling like they are excited
for the unknown right, that'syeah, and then that's it, and
you're challenging people too.
Yes, I want you to drink thosewines and be like, damn, this is
good and I've wines and be likedamn this is good, and I've
never had this variety before.
Or damn, this is good and I'venever heard of this grape or
this style or this method.
(41:01):
Or I can't believe this is anunsulfured wine or fuck yeah,
any of that stuff.
Like I want to expose people tosomething and you know,
sometimes those wines are alittle bit more abrasive, not
because they're not made well,but like sometimes people aren't
going to dig all the styles,yeah, and I'm totally cool with
(41:23):
that, because if I'm not doingthat, I'm probably still not
going hard enough.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Yeah, and if they don't want to be challenged,
they want to be comfortable andthey want to just way.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
but I mean, we're also coming out with new estate
(41:55):
wines that people have neverseen before.
Still, yeah like we justreleased graciano.
I mean, we've been growing thatsince 2017 it's our first time.
We just released the 19, liketwo weeks ago, you know like the
19 yeah 19.
Hey, I helped make that one.
Yeah, there you go, hell yeah Idid some work on it.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, well, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, it's up at the tasting room, so you'll go and
taste that.
There's actually a lot of 19sthat are being released right
now.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Wayward Sun up there, San Bernardino's.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Pinot yeah, that one was pretty consistent for a
while.
Yeah, there's a fair amount.
I mean 19 merlot, 19 there's alot of 19s that are, like just
now, hitting our kind of, andthat's that's intentional.
Yeah, if I was, if anotherwinery was saying that I'm
always skeptical, like fucking19s, what are you guys doing?
Not selling wine?
(42:43):
but we're actually intentionalwith how we hold back a lot of
wines now yeah so we'd like toif keep them in in bottle for a
year, year and a half, sometimestwo years, sometimes more, just
like it's been a long road, butwe've finally gotten there,
because it's the best way toshow those wines.
Yeah, it's amazing, finally,you know.
(43:03):
So that's really cool,absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, one quick thing .
I mean, when I first started inthe wine industry, I with you,
uh, in the tasting room and, um,I didn't know jack shit about
wine at all, but I was workingthe taste room, I served before
and the one wine that opened mymind and showed me that there's
a lot of depth and complexity inthe world of wine was the
(43:28):
grenache.
Um, that was kind of like myaha bottle of wine where I was
like, oh my god, like all I knewwas like peanut warmer, low.
That's all I fucking knew yeahand when I was working in the
tasting room.
I would work on the weekdayswhen I first started and it'd be
slow, and so I'd spend most ofmy time reading wine folly and
(43:48):
trying to learn about the winesthat I was, I didn't know about
and I was trying to sell them.
Yeah, and that just broadened myhorizons completely.
And then I was like, oh my God,this is actually really
interesting, like there's a lotof depth in all these wines,
there's complexity.
I need to find out more aboutwine, and that's when I asked
(44:09):
you if I could do a harvest inin 2019.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
And so yeah, man yeah , grenache is our yeah you know
kind of house wine.
Now I like to think so.
I'm glad that that's the one,that I didn't know that.
But that's cool and still it'sstill bomb yeah, man still 21
just came out.
I mean it's amazing, it'sfucking killer, yeah yeah, all
right, man.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Well, hey guys check the show notes because we will
have, um, all of carhartt familywines.
Uh, their website, theirsocials in the show notes.
So go there, buy some wine,join the wine club.
Thanks for coming, chase.
Absolutely, cheers, buddy.
Thank you, dude, give you alittle fist bump good to see you
man cheers Bye.
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