May 22, 2024 • 57 mins
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Website: https://gramercycellars.com/
Instagram: @gramercycellars
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Ever wondered how a twist in weather patterns can turn the winemaking world upside down? Brandon Moss from Gramercy Cellars uncorks the truth behind this season's eccentric climate and its impact on the vines. From the intimate decision-making of pruning frostbitten branches to the organic symphony of native fermentations, our discussion is a treasure trove of the delicate dance between nature and nurture in viticulture. We celebrate the trailblazers of Washington Syrah and dissect the philosophies that shape Gramercy's elegant wines, revealing how every bottle captures the essence of its earthly roots.
Pour a glass and join me as I reminisce about my winemaking odyssey that led me back to the Walla Walla Valley, where the art of wine seems almost destined. From early days on the family farm to Oregon's lush vineyards, I've been seduced by the alchemy of turning grapes into liquid narratives. The episode is steeped in tales of inspiration drawn from the Northern Rhone, Bordeaux blends, and the winemakers who craft them. As we explore these influences, you'll appreciate the meticulous pursuit of balance, the ongoing quest for knowledge, and the shared dream of bringing exquisite wines to tables across the globe.
Our conversation wanders through the Pacific Northwest's rich tapestry of wine and culinary delights, pausing to reflect on the bittersweet closure of local dining icons. You'll be charmed by anecdotes of the region's welcoming wine community and the lively banter awaiting in every bar. This episode offers a full-bodied experience, from the vine to the glass, seasoned with laughter and a hint of nostalgia. So, raise your glass to the stories and people that ferment the vibrant culture of Pacific Northwest wine. Cheers!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bung pod.
Welcome back, wine Wonderboy.
We got Jazzy J.
Jazzy, what is a bung?
The hole of the barrel iscalled a bung hole.
Inside the bung hole is calleda bung Wine with mayhem.
That's what it's about.
Back to the bung pod.
(00:21):
Everybody, my name's Ian King,aka Wine Wonderboy.
I got my co-host with me, jazzyJ.
Say what's up?
What's up, what's up?
A few things, a few things onthe docket.
Go get our merch bungpodstore,get some hoodies, get some teas.
All the links in thedescription and all the links to
(00:44):
this interview, all of theirmarketing Wine Club.
Go do it.
It's going to be in the shownotes below as well, and without
further ado, we have a greatepisode for you guys.
Here we have our friend fromGramercy Cellars.
We have Brandon Moss here.
He's the winemaker.
What's up, brandon?
(01:05):
Thanks for having me.
Thanks, guys, of course, thanksfor taking your time out.
It seems like you had a reallybusy day today.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, it was a busy day.
I was just getting back in theswing of things, been selling
some wine on the road, was justin Toronto, montreal.
We just got back from Coeurd'Alene in Seattle last week and
then I actually spent abouthalf the day just checking
vineyards because we've had areally interesting growing
(01:35):
season here so far.
We not only saw really coldtemperatures in January, which I
believe you guys are in theLake Chelan area, I think you
guys were even colder than wewere here in Walla Walla.
That happened in January andthen in the last four to five
days we've been hovering rightaround 30 degrees for the last
(01:59):
four or five days.
So it's been really interesting.
It's you, you know, mothernature's just throwing us all
she has this year.
So, um, but I just went out tothe all the estate vineyards.
Everything's looking prettyhealthy.
Some some stuff hasn't evenbutted out, which is kind of
crazy right now, becausenormally, um, my birthday is
right at the kind of uh, april12th and normally, almost every
(02:23):
year, I'll go out to thevineyards and you'll start
seeing those first signs of life.
You'll start seeing some budsopening up and this year on
April 12th, there was nothing.
Um, it was the vineyard stilllook dormant, um, you know, and
so we've been kind of pinchpatiently waiting for things to
kind of progress and finallywe're starting to see some
action, um, out in the vineyard.
(02:43):
So it's, um, I think we'rewe're starting to see some
action out in the vineyard.
So I think we've actuallyhelped ourselves because
everything's delayed.
We've been cold for the lastfive days and most vineyards
weren't actually butted out, soit actually kind of helped the
situation compared to, you know,if in a normal year, if we
would have been 15 days in andhad shoots that were three
(03:03):
inches, you know, it might be awhole different story right now.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Oh yeah, do you think they'd be more exposed to For?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
sure, I mean, you know, at any point, like any bud
is is exposed, you know what Imean.
So, whether it's three inchesor two inches or whatever, but
before they've actually, youknow, butted out, like when
they're just getting fuzzy orwhen there's just starting to be
sap flow, you're pretty wellprotected at that point.
Um, it's really when you startseeing those green leaves come
out.
Um, and you know just just thatslight, you know, couple hours
(03:33):
at 30 degrees can just fry avineyard.
And you know the the bummer is,if we fried the vineyard this
year, we might not have extrabuds to keep growing.
You know, most years, in anormal year where you don't have
, like a winter freeze, youwould have secondary and
tertiary buds that would comeafter that first one froze and
you'd still get a crop.
Like that actually happened inthe Willamette Valley, I believe
(03:56):
, is in 2022, where they frozeand then everything kind of came
back.
But this year, because we hadsuch a harsh winter freeze, I
don't know if we'd have an extrabud available at this point in
time.
So I think that we might.
You know, if we froze, theremight just be no growth other
than coming from the bottom.
So I think for the most part Ithink we we lucked out pretty
(04:18):
big time on this one um to getout pretty unscathed, and in
most parts of the Valley atleast.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean.
So what would you do ifsomething like that happened
where you didn't have growth inthe vineyard, Like how do you
pivot from that?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I mean, you know that's a tough call.
I mean, you know, as a, as awinery, you really got to make
that decision as to you knowwhat's the best thing to do with
my vineyard.
Do I cut it back to the groundand let everything regrow from
the ground?
You know, at this point in timein Walla Walla, all my stuff is
ungrafted and rootstocks juststarting to come into the valley
(04:54):
.
So, you know, depending on thesituation and what I felt like
about the vintage, you know, Imay just rip stuff out and
replant it on the properrootstock, because that's kind
of the direction we're going andwe're starting to figure out
the right rootstocks for WallaWalla, which, you know,
rootstocks aren't really all badbecause you can kind of get
(05:14):
them suited towards yourenvironment.
And so, you know, in thatsituation I might just rip
everything out and replant onproper rootstock to ensure
everything's going to be goodfor the next 50 years.
You know what I mean.
Um, and I think those are.
You know, sometimes these,these freeze events, they, they
make you make hard decisionsthat can sometimes, I don't know
, benefit you for, you know, forthe long haul.
(05:35):
So, um, but that being said,you know, um, we, we wouldn't
want to go vintage withoutproducing any fruit.
We do rely on our estatevineyards a lot, but we also the
estate vineyards for us arejust about 30, 35% of our
overall production.
So we have plenty of vineyardsoutside the valley that didn't
get hit near as hard.
And, you know, while Walla,Walla and Lake Chelan did get
(05:57):
really cold, places like theHorse Heaven Hills did not,
hills did not, you know, and sothe horse heaven hills you know
a lot of that yakima valley areathey didn't get hit near as
hard with the cold as placeslike lake chelan, bc us, um, so
I think that there's there'sgoing to be plenty of good fruit
out there.
Um, you know, if it is direcircumstances in walla walla
(06:19):
okay, very nice and how manyestate grapes do you have?
So we have we have one Syrahvineyard that has a couple of
rows of vineyard that's aboutnine acres.
We have a primarily Bordeauxvarietal vineyard on the valley
floor.
That the entire property is 20acres but we have six acres
(06:42):
under vine.
And then we're also partners inan estate vineyard that is 30
acres total but we're partneredwith quite a few other wineries
in that one.
So we kind of came together aslike a co-op with some wineries
and planted that vineyard andthat's on the very, very south
end of the Walla Walla Valley inMilton Freewater water.
But in this um, in this areacalled Savane it's basically in
(07:06):
these kind of windswept, dry umridgeline that's on the very
south of the valley it makessuper concentrated cabernet up
there, um, so you know, that'skind of what's unique about
Walla Walla is, um, we have apretty diverse climate here and
pretty diverse terroir, justbecause of how our Valley set up
(07:26):
, you know.
So we try to have our estatevineyards kind of sputtered
throughout the Valley so that wecan kind of take advantage of
different growing conditions togrow certain grapes in specific
areas of Walla Walla.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Right, that's awesome , Wow.
Um.
So right now we are drinkingyour there.
It is 2019.
Red Willow Syrah.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
That's been fantastic .
Right now the Red Willow Syrahis more of, I'd say, our more
powerful, structured version ofSyrah coming from the Yakima
Valley.
You know Yakima Valley fruit'squite a bit different than what
we're growing here in WallaWalla I'd say Walla Walla Syrahs
err on more of that like verysavory and a little more plush
(08:13):
on the palate, whereas withYakima Valley you get a little
brighter acidity than you get inWalla Walla and you get a more
structured kind of like ageable,long-term Syrah.
We really love Lanyard for thatand honestly, red Willow is one
of the best Syrah vineyards inthe state of Washington.
We love it.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, that's why I've heard that it's one of the best
Syrah vineyards in the stateand I wanted to pick your brain
and ask you why.
I mean it doesn't Looks likeyou got there's like 13.5%, you
guys, why I mean it doesn'tlooks like you got this like 13,
5%.
You guys have a pretty lighttouch in your winemaking which
and for my palate I prefer.
It's my goat, it's my thing.
I call it the, you know, likethe psalm kind of touch a little
(08:57):
bit, because a lot of psalms,they sommeliers, they just crave
those more refreshing wines,wines that aren't as big and
bold and, like you know, won't,uh, you know, hinder your palate
in any way because they they'retasting with reps all day with
all these big bordeaux's napawines, you know stuff that
(09:17):
really, um, I'm not gonna saykills your palate because it
doesn't kill it, it just, uh,you know, tires it out if it
chews your palate, it becomes alot it becomes a lot.
Yeah, and this is, um, this isbeautiful.
It has a bright acidity, uh,the tannins are very structured
as well, um, but still like avery light touch.
And can you explain your boththe winemaking side of your
(09:41):
style and also this particularvineyard?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
yeah, certainly so.
So first off, on the vineyardum, mike sour is the is the
farmer out here at red willowand it's a really unique site.
So it's it's just about, um,probably 10 miles uh, to the
south of yakima and it's reallyinteresting because it is
actually grandfathered in on avery, very large Indian
(10:05):
reservation.
So while this vineyard is knownas being like one of the top
Syrah vineyards in the state,you will not find another
vineyard around it anywhere.
There's orchards, there's lotsof other stuff, but you will not
see another vineyard around it.
But Mike Sauer is very famousbecause he was the first person
to plant Syrah in the state ofWashington in 1987.
(10:28):
And so he was working with aguy named David Lake from
Columbia Winery.
He's a master of wine.
David Lake really knew aboutthe world of wine and was buying
Cabernet from Mike Sauer andsaid Mike, I love your property,
you have the elevation, youhave the aspect to plant Syrah.
Like will you plant Syrah?
(10:48):
And at that time no one eventhought Syrah would work in
Washington and Mike Sauer took achance on the grape and kind of
, the rest was history.
And so you know, at this pointhe's devoted quite a bit of his
vineyard to Syrah and weactually get a block that is
right next to the oldestplanting at the vineyard that
(11:08):
was planted just a few yearsafter the first planting
happened out there, so we getsome really old vines out there.
It's a very sandy soil, soanytime you're growing fruit in
sandier soils you're going toget a more perfumed wine.
Um, so it's uh, uh, generallyspeaking, like if you put um in
the yakima valley, if you hadmore silty, uh, or clay type of
(11:32):
soil, you're getting even morepowerful wine than than what we
have here.
Um, but because of those kindof sandy soils you're going to
get this very perfumed, elegant,um, refreshing wine.
It's going to be kind of like,very aromatic, and then that
also kind of translates to ourwinemaking style too.
So in the winery we like to makefood-friendly wines.
(11:53):
Our founder and initialwinemaker I kind of took over
the winemaking but our initialwinemaker, greg Harrington.
He's a master sommelier.
He got all his experience inthe restaurant industry, really
focused on food, and so when wecame to make Gramercy wines, we
really wanted to makefood-friendly wines.
(12:14):
We wanted to make wines thatshow best when you put them with
a meal, and so our intentionson when we pick is always have
restraint and always haveacidity.
Acidity is really the key, Ithink, to making a food-friendly
wine, because wines withoutacidity can just get taken over
(12:34):
by whatever food they're with.
Especially if you put them witha high acid food, it's just
going to take over the wine,it's going to make the wine
taste even more flabby than itis, and so you really need to
balance those acidities, andthat's always what we think
about whenever we're picking.
In addition to that, in thewinery, we're all native ferment
.
We are pretty minimalintervention.
You know we'll add somenutrients for the yeast.
(12:57):
Other than that, we are notreally adding anything.
So you know, for the most part,we're.
I always like to say you, youknow, like, we're certainly not
a natural winery and we're nottrying to be that um, but uh, um
, uh, we're.
We're definitely like minimalintervention, um.
(13:18):
So you know, we're reallytrying to be as non-invasive as
you can possibly be.
We use just a tiny bit ofsulfur, but other than that,
like we're.
I always say like, as a winery,like if you went by, um, like
european union standards onbeing an organic winery, we
would be.
That, you know, and so that'show we.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
that's how we like to treat everything in the winery
good, do you guys use a uh piedde couve for your native
ferments as well?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
yeah, that's how I, that's how I get everything
started, um, and then usuallyfrom there I like.
Basically, what I like to do isI like to taste the
fermentations as we go and Ialways say, whatever yeasts are
kind of in their growth phase,so like I want to catch yeast
when they're growing andexpanding, you know, because
there's there's a point infermentation, like you know, and
especially in the first fivebricks of a fermentation, where
(14:08):
yeast are just rapidly expanding.
You know they're growing,they're splitting, they're you
know they're just expanding, andI always figure, if I can
capture those yeast as they'reexpanding, I'm going to be
capturing yeast in their mosthealthy phase.
So then we just taste everyfermenter every day and whatever
comes in that next day, youknow we'll, we'll pitch that
into the next thing, um, we'llusually reset that once um, once
(14:36):
Cabernet comes in, and make anew P de Cuvée or Cabernet,
usually from a Cabernet specificvineyard Um.
But for the most part our startof our season gets started with
Forgotten Hills, syrah, which isour own estate vineyard Um.
But for the most part our startof our season gets started with
forgotten Hills, which is ourown estate vineyard Um.
We farm it all organically.
So I figured it'll be a goodsubstrate for, you know, getting
everything going in the season,cause we're not really using
these like harsh sprays and so,um, you know, for the most part
(14:59):
I've.
Um, I really thought the PDUCuvée does a very good job and,
honestly, I just don't likesitting there trusting a ferment
to take off.
I really like to make sure thatit's going to take off,
especially when we're usingpretty minimal sulfur in the
winery.
You know what I mean.
I don't want to trust a vat ofgrapes sitting there for five
days hoping that it's going totake off.
(15:20):
I'd rather initiate that andmake sure we're making CO2, make
sure we're getting thebiologics under control, because
we're already taking a risk bygoing native that I figure we
need to help those natives outand make them more successful.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I learned that process through.
I had some acquaintances downin California and Santa Barbara
from Whitcraft down there, andthey have a great history.
They're awesome makers of PinotNoir, chardonnay, cool Climate
Syrah next to the ocean, andthis kind of reminds me of some
(15:58):
of their wines as well, and theyalways used a P de Couve as
well and you know, I haven'treally seen it in other places.
I've asked a lot of people thatdo native fermentations
exclusively in their winery and,yeah, I think you're the only
one so far that uses it and Ijust always wonder why people
(16:19):
don't, because it looks likeit's a very trusted process, you
know.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
And one of the things I'm going to start doing this
year is I'm going to starttesting my Poudre du Cuvée just
to make sure that you know,because I taste it every time.
But like I want to make sureI'm starting with this very
clean, very neutral profile interms of what yeast I'm getting.
So I'm going to start testingmy Poudre du Cuvée just to make
sure that the yeast that I wantin there are the ones there.
But it's it's a tried and truemethod.
(16:46):
Honestly, it works well.
You know.
You just ensure, like I said,when you're doing natives,
you're already kind of takingsome risks.
That I feel like when you canreel those risks in a little bit
and and take a calculated riskrather than just a random risk,
like you're doing a much betterjob at what you're, what you're
trying to do, because you know,like bottom line, like we want
(17:07):
to make clean wines.
You know what I mean.
We want to make wines that arefruit forward, delicious.
I mean, honestly, the deliciousfactor is the most important
thing.
You know what I mean.
It's like is it delicious?
Like if it's not delicious,then you've already failed as a
winemaker, you know yeah, yeahabsolutely gotta make sure it's
drinkable.
You know you don't want to fuckup your wine um, and so, yeah, I
(17:29):
mean it's just like we love theeffects of a native
fermentation.
It it slows down thefermentation, it doesn't get as
hot.
I think that's kind of part ofwhy our wines have this soft,
elegant feel to them, becauseour fermentations just don't get
that heat that's going toextract all those aggressive
tannins out of the wine.
(17:49):
And so we actually haven't hada native ferment go above about
78 degrees ever, and normallywhen I used to do inoculated
yeast, you'd regularly see 90,95 degrees in a ferment at the
peak.
And so we're adding a solid 10to 12 days onto our fermentation
(18:11):
and it's much more gentle onthe wine, which I think is a
style that is not going away.
Honestly, I think it's a stylethat people are gravitating
towards now, especially as weget a whole new generation of
wine drinkers in.
I feel like we are all kind ofgravitating towards this maybe
(18:32):
different style that is moresort of crushable.
It's that the chillable red,the kind of interesting, soft
approach that Native fermentsand it's a thing that I think is
um is not going away.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I think it's just going to be more and more
popular as time goes it'sinteresting that you bring up
chillable reds, because it seemslike every time I have someone
in the um tasting room they likeI'll always like, recommend.
Like you know, you can alwayschill this light-bodied red and
they're like wait what?
And I'm like it.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Nobody said you couldn't like I don't understand
the chillable red thing, youknow.
But, like, like I said, likeyou know, there there's a whole
new generation of wine drinkersthat are starting to drink wine
now and they certainly dounderstand the chillable red and
it's a thing you know.
I say like, especially inchelan, like there's some
potential for those type ofwines up there.
You know what I mean, like youknow, and a varietal that that
(19:28):
takes the whole season to getripe, but it's going to be more
light body, like plant grenachein lake chelan, although I don't
know if it could survive yourwinters, but like no no plant
something that's going to be alighter body red, and let it,
you know, not get totally matureand let it be this kind of
light bodied red, and I thinkit's a thing these days, you
(19:50):
know.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I've been pushing for Gamay up here.
You think Gamay would survivethe winters.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah, that'd be cool.
I think honestly, like there'salready Pinot Noir.
So if you can do Pinot Noir,you can do Pinot Noir, you can
do Gamay, you know, becausewe've been sourcing fruit up in
Chelan for quite a whileactually we make a vignette from
up there.
Oh what?
What vineyard?
Well, it's actually justoutside the AVA, but it's
Antoine Creek.
(20:17):
Oh yeah, OK, yeah, that'sawesome.
We've been making vignette fromAntoine Creek since 2012.
Oh wow, yeah, that's a while.
It's quite a trek, but wereally like the fruit.
So you know, it's a trek that'swell worth it and it's a very
interesting site.
It's like super granitehillside and lots of wind flow
(20:40):
through the vineyard becauseyou're on the Columbia River and
it's a pretty crazy site.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah, shout out to Antoine Creek.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
So how many cases do you guys produce?
Or how many cases do you make?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
We make, right around 10,000 ish, depending on the
vintage.
We've been as high as like14,000, but you know, those are,
those are in in heavy vintages,um, but 10,000 is kind of the
sweet spot for us.
It's it's just me and one otherguy in the cellar, and so we
were kind of like if we weremuch over 10,000, I don't, I
think we'd be swimming.
(21:14):
Uh, so it's perfect.
We have a pretty small littlefacility here too.
So, um, it's just about theright amount of wine.
And you know, the way we'vealways thought about it as a
winery is, you know, like I said, I just got done doing some
trips and I like doing trips,but like I don't want trips to
be every single week of my job,you know.
And once you start getting to acertain size, that's when, you
(21:37):
know, your job basically becomesgetting on planes every day
rather than going and checkingon vineyards, and that's where
we did not want to see thewinery going, you know so you
said you guys were in how manydifferent countries?
I think it's like 10 to 12 rightnow.
In what countries are those?
Let's see, south Korea.
We are in Singapore.
(22:04):
We are in um Singapore, we arein Japan, um Canada, we are in
Germany and Sweden.
And let's see I'm going toforget some of these European
ones, cause there's quite a fewUm oh man.
(22:29):
Definitely We've been inSwitzerland.
I'm not sure if we're there.
We're currently um, um oh man.
I know I'm forgetting one ortwo, but there's definitely a
couple more out there that we'rein.
That have been pretty positivefor us.
But, like I said, we sell a lotof wine in BC and Alberta and
(22:50):
quite a bit of wine in UK.
Other than that, internationalmarkets are not a huge part of
what we're doing.
We definitely rely on domestica lot more.
But at the same time, like Ithink it's good to have a
worldwide presence.
Um, you know, just get yourwines out there, um, and you
know it's it's kind of gets yourname out there.
(23:12):
It gets the Washington statename out there too.
Um, we work a lot with um youknow, uh, washington wine
commission and do a lot of theirevents, their events, and, you
know, kind of try to promote thestate as a whole, you know,
because I feel, like you know,in addition to promoting our own
winery, I think that gettingWashington wine on a worldwide
stage is is kind of an importantthing to do, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
All right, let's take a break for a minute, because
Jazzy has got something to tellyou.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
All right, let's talk about it.
So did you know we do haveextra episodes on Patreon and
you can only get these for $5.
What, yeah, crazy?
I know Dope, so go to Patreon.
Link is in the description ofthe episode and subscribe $5.
(24:02):
You're supporting us and you'regetting to learn more about the
wine industry.
Let's go, woo, all right, allright, all right, guess what?
I think Ian has something totell us?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I do, I do.
We got some merch going onright now.
We got hoodies Say what.
We got handbags.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
No way.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We got some merch going on right now.
We got hoodies, what we got?
Handbags no way.
We got stickers.
We got tank tops right now forthe summertime, oh hell.
Yeah, we got some windbreakerstoo.
So go to bungpodstore and getyour bungpod merch, yeah, all
right, welcome back, um.
So we talked about your caseproduction and your style of
(24:43):
winemaking, which is awesome.
I love personally.
So how did you get to be makingthis style of wine?
Like?
What's your background like?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
How'd you get into wine really?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
You know, honestly, in terms of making the style of
wine, I think, if I, if Iwouldn't have found Gramercy
early on, I don't think I, Idon't know, I don't know what
style of wine I would be making,but I'm not sure if it would be
this style.
So that's kind of one of theexciting things about finding
Gramercy early in my career.
But I, you know, funny enough,I actually.
(25:17):
So I grew up in the Walla WallaValley and I actually worked in
vineyards when I was 16 yearsold and I never, I never thought
that that would be the careerthat I would take, you know, but
, um, but I grew up kind of likeon it, on a farm, um, we, it
wasn't like our primary thing,but like on saturdays we'd go
sell plums at the farmer'smarket, you know, and, and on
(25:38):
the weekends we would, you know,um, prune plum trees and, you
know, basically work on the farmall weekend long, and so that
that's kind of what we did, um,and so I've always kind of lived
this agricultural life.
Um, I went, uh, went to oregonstate, which I'm always feel
very, very lucky for, becauseit's kind of in the heart of the
(25:59):
willamette valley there.
Um, I pre-med, um is what Iwent there for originally
started, uh, in about my fourthyear of school really started,
um, initially falling in lovewith making beer.
I got, I had a buddy that was asuper beer nerd.
He's actually in pendleton,oregon now making beer and
(26:19):
making food and uh, mustards andall these things in Pendleton.
But, um, I started brewing andreally started getting into that
.
Then you start trying.
You know lots of beers and andkind of interesting things and
things that are out there.
Um, and then, um, just veryrandomly, I had this wine shop
(26:41):
that I would walk by every dayand what's funny is I initially
went in there for a pack ofMiller High Life.
I think it was like $5.99Miller High Life and I was like,
oh, that's a deal of thecentury, let's go.
It's $5.99 Miller High Lifepack on sale.
So I'd always go in there and Ieventually started going in.
(27:03):
I'd chat with the guy and he'dbe like, oh, you should try this
wine or you should try thisWillamette Valley Pinot Noir,
it's really good.
And so I started trying thatand I really started loving
Pinot Noir and Willamette ValleyPinot Noir especially.
And this was like you know,this would have been like, oh,
four or five.
This is like when you couldactually afford Pinot Noir on
(27:26):
like a college kid's book.
You know it was like 20, 30bucks would get you something
that was like pretty good, youknow, and um, and so I just
started, you know, walk by theshop, I'd pick up a bottle of
wine and take it home and try it.
Like really started like goingdown that rabbit hole.
And you know, I think, as weall know, like wine is one of
(27:47):
those things that it's justendless knowledge is out there
and you can never know it alland you just keep striving to
know more.
You know, and so it was one ofthose things that, like I've
always liked learning aboutthings.
Like it's just been a thing Ilike learning and like figuring
out stuff, and so wine was justone of those things that I feel
like you can never figure outcompletely.
(28:07):
It's like there's no one inthis world that knows every
single thing about wine, becauseit's just not possible to do so
.
You know there's, there'smaster sommeliers who know so
much about, you know, all theproducers of the world, but like
, if you gave them a complexorganic chemistry equation,
that's something that'shappening in wine.
I bet most of them can't solveit.
You know, um, and then theydecide that know all that, you
(28:29):
know and and probably can't tellyou a producer in the world.
You know, um, and so you know.
So I basically got in the wineprogram, learned food science,
winemaking, um, when I worked atking estate in the willamette
valley.
Uh, they're one of the largestum organic producers.
Um, they were the largestorganic producer in oregon and
(28:50):
maybe one of the larger organicproducers like on the whole west
coast.
They're very large in terms oforganics, and so I really wanted
to learn that.
So I went, went there, and thenI took a jaunt to New Zealand
and worked down there, reallywanted to see a bigger winery,
see what Sauvignon Blanc wasmade.
It was a really interestingventure, I feel like.
(29:12):
Down there I went to a winerythat was way too big, but at the
same time it was pretty cool.
I met a lot of really neatpeople.
It was pretty cool.
I met a lot of really neatpeople.
Basically, we had internsrepresented from every
winemaking region in the world,and so it was like this melting
pot of cultures down there.
And then, honestly, I came backto Walla Walla, which was
(29:33):
supposed to be just a quickweek-long vacation meeting up
with some friends and family,and then I was going to go back
to the Willamette Valley and Ibasically tried the wines that
were being made here and waslike, oh my god, I can't believe
this is like being made where Igrew up, because that wasn't
really happening when I left,you know, and I hadn't really
(29:54):
tasted those wines all that muchbecause Walla Walla wines
didn't really have the reach toget to the Willamette where I
was living or get to New Zealand.
So I hadn't really have thereach to get to the Willamette
where I was living or get to NewZealand.
So I hadn't really tried manyof these wines.
And I just fell in love withwhat was being made here and
(30:15):
quickly hooked up with some ofthe people that were making wine
at the same place whereGramercy was making wine.
I became the cellar master forthat facility and then started
kind of taking over a lot ofresponsibilities for Gramercy
and quickly realized that Gregand I Greg the owner and I
really worked well together andwe were kind of like that yin
and yang.
You know he was a mastersommelier who was very erythro
about wine.
I was kind of this chemistrywine student who knew a lot
(30:36):
about making wine, who knew alot about science but didn't
necessarily know like nothingabout you know kind of the
worldwide scope of wine makingwine, who knew a lot about
science but didn't necessarilyknow like nothing about you know
kind of the worldwide scope ofwine.
And so it was kind of this likecool balancing act.
You know, he would show me coolthings or show me cool books
that he'd read in his mastersommelier studies and then I
would read them and I'd be like,oh, you know, I I didn't know
about using whole clusterfermentation or like why would
(30:59):
you do fermentation?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
But then, like you try these things, you're like oh
, okay, now I kind of get it,you know.
So where did you?
Um, what was the winery in newzealand?
So it was a very, very largewinery, so it was called indivin
um, massive, and they're evennow.
So they were massive when I wasthere back in like 2007.
But from the people I've talkedto that have gone there more
recently, it has like 10 timesthe size of what it was when I
(31:27):
was there, and like to put itwhat I always like to say about
Indivin.
So I worked my way up from I waspretty young, like they didn't
want to let me run the presses,but I like to.
I like to kind of challengemyself and I really wanted to
run the presses.
You know, I was like this iswhat I came here to do.
And so eventually I I gotbumped up and I got to run the
(31:48):
presses and, um, I was runningthree presses in the night.
We would do three press loadson all three presses and on one
single cycle through these threepresses I was running 400 tons,
holy, holy, 250 ton pressuresand 100 ton press every night it
(32:09):
was.
It was absolutely bonkers likeI would get.
I ran the night shift and Iwould get to work and there
would literally be dump trucks,double dump trucks, lined up for
like miles, you know, justwaiting to unload breaks.
Um, it was just, it was abonkers.
I mean, it showed you a verydifferent side of the wine
(32:29):
industry that I don't think, um,I don't think we normally
experience that in in oregon andwashington.
It's not something we see, um,and while it was really cool to
see once, um, I don't think I'dwant to do it again, other than
other than meeting all thepeople.
I mean that that's what wasreally cool about the whole
situation, is they?
(32:50):
They we had 60 interns, so Imean you can only imagine how
big 60 interns and they put usall up in a hostel and so every
night was like us gettingtogether, sharing wines, making
food and just like learningabout each other's culture.
So like, well, maybe the winerywas a little bit too big, um, to
(33:13):
really like, you know,encapsulate like the learning
environment that I wanted, likejust learning from the people
and meeting all the people.
And now having all thesecontacts and you know, portugal
or Spain or Italy or wherever,it's like if I need to go, like
if I needed to go to Portugal, Iknow I have someone's couch.
I can sleep on tomorrow.
You know what I mean, andthat's.
(33:33):
That's a pretty cool feeling,you know.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Absolutely so.
I have a question from goinggoing from studying wine and
then going under Greg, and atthat point you didn't really
have a lot of experience withthe world of wine, but you knew
the chemistry behind everythingand winemaking.
How did he and him being amaster?
(33:59):
How did he and him being amaster?
How did you, how did he exposeyou to the world of wine?
His books, like what's yourexperience?
Speaker 3 (34:12):
actual tasting wines or what kind of wines did you
try?
That opened your mind, yeah.
So one of the one of the firstthings he did when I started
working for him full time is hewas like you need to go buy this
book right now and it wascalled the Wines of the Northern
Rhone.
And I basically read that bookfront to back.
And the Wines of the NorthernRhone is a really cool book
because basically it'll have aproducer and then it says all
(34:33):
the wines that they make andthey tell you about their
thought process behind makingall of those wines.
It tells you where it's, fromwhat level they harvested it at,
if they did whole cluster, ifthey were native, blah, blah,
blah.
But it gives you all theinformation on what they do.
And then what I did is I justread it and, as we would try
(34:54):
wines, I would cross-check thosewith the things I'd read in
that book and been like, oh, Ireally like this wine.
Like, oh, why do I like it?
And I'd go look it up in thebook and I'd be like, oh, so
they're doing this, this andthis.
And like, oh, that's kind ofcool.
Like who's doing that inWashington?
It's like, oh, no, one's doingthat in Washington.
Oh well, maybe we should trydoing that, you know.
And so that's kind of how itgoes.
And you know it's like you trysomething, you see if it works,
(35:19):
and then you're like, ok, well,well, that worked.
Or like, hey, maybe that didn'twork, like, let's, you know,
you're never going to make a badwine.
Well, sorry, preface that youcan make a bad wine with trial
and error.
Be taking a trial.
That's going to result in, like, making a terrible wine.
It's like, am I going to makesomething good or better?
You know what I mean not notbad or good, you know.
(35:44):
And so we would do trials thatlike wouldn't necessarily like
make bad wines, but like, hey,let's try 100 whole cluster and
something and see, see what itdoes, you know, but let's only
do it in a half a ton ratherthan in four tons.
You know, um, and so we woulddo these little trials.
When the winery started, and youknow, that's kind of like what
it came from, um, but you know,like, really, um, greg exposed
me to a lot of northern rhonewines that I just wouldn't have
(36:07):
known existed.
You know, I'm probably myfavorite one, probably the most
geeky one, um, but uh, jammy, um, jammy coat roti, that's, let's
go that right.
There is, like you know, it'sit's not about fruit, it's about
like olives and brine and meatand it's like everything I love
(36:28):
in syrah and honestly ever foundthat wine, because it's not a
wine that like, like, if you'rea connoisseur, like it's not a
wine that necessarily issomething that everyone knows,
like a lot of people in theNorthern Rome they'll know all
of them on, they'll know shop,they'll know kind of those class
or Ross thing, um or um, uh, weall you know like those are the
(36:52):
big ones, those are thecollectors wines, but like, yeah
, may is that's a geeky wine,you know, and that's a cool.
The other one that Greg exposedme to that like I would have
never have known, is GanonSaint-Joseph.
That's one that is not supercommon.
It's gotten really expensive todate but like I still think
(37:16):
that like, not that many peopleknow about that wine and it's
one of the most deliciousNorthern Rhone Syrahs that I've
ever had.
And then you know, like, when itcomes to like bordeaux wines, I
mean we don't drink all thatmuch, us bordeaux wines, because
we really ache in ourselves tolike, want to make a bordeaux
style, you know.
And so I really like you know,just the, the classics um in in
(37:37):
bordeaux, you know, like uh, puyla coste, um, you know, like uh
, puy-le-coste, um, you know.
So, uh, just the classics, Ifeel like really embody um what
we want to make Um, and so, youknow, while we started as a
Syrah winery, I feel like youknow, we're kind of an equal
Bordeaux and Syrah winery umthese days.
So I like to, um, you know,kind of uh, go on both sides and
(37:59):
and try both, you knowabsolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I mean, yeah, some of those producers you're named um
, I probably went right overjasmine's head, but at some
point in the vineyard I reallyhope to expose her to a lot of
those producers like jma allthem on.
There's some of my favorites.
I have yet to have a shop.
Uh, one of my bucket list winesis a shop, and so it's.
(38:23):
It's a very fucking expensivewine and so, um, I have yet to
get my hands on it those wineshave gotten so expensive, like
even jam a.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
I remember when, um, when I first got exposed to it
with greg and I looked to go buysome, I I think it was only $55
, maybe $60.
I know, I definitely boughtsome, I remember, and then every
year I'd go look again and whenthey released and it was like,
(38:53):
oh well, it was 55.
Oh, now it's 70.
Oh, now it's 90.
And I'm not talking like $5price increases, I'm talking
twenty dollars a year.
And then now I don't even.
I think the last time I saw itwas like well, actually the
estate split, so it's kind ofdifferent.
Now the brothers, the brotherssplit the estate, so now there's
two different jmas.
(39:13):
So I don't know if you cannecessarily compare straight up
what they're making now withmaybe what was happening.
I think it happened maybe fiveto six years ago.
Um, but like, the last time Isaw it it was like I mean, those
bottles were like 190 dollars,I think you know 100, 200, and
so they've gone crazy.
Same thing happened with ganon.
(39:34):
You know, ganon you used to beable to get for like 45 dollars.
It was a smoking deal becauseit's because ganon is actually
Saint Joseph, which is not quiteas famous Appalachian as like
Cote Roti or Hermitage, and sosmoking deals.
But it's the same thing forGanon.
Those wines are now like $175.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Wow, yeah, it's nuts right now.
That's, like you know, 45, 50bucks.
That's what like Cru Beaujolaisis going for nowadays.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Yeah, it's wild and Cru.
Beaujolais used to be like 25,you know Exactly.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
People like fucking me that keeps pushing Gamay and
Beaujolais, Driving the fuckingprices up.
Man.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Cru Beaujolais is just inherently delicious and
there's a lot of cool likenaturally producers in
Beaujolais is just inherentlydelicious and there's a lot of
cool like naturally producers inBeaujolais.
That I think, makes them likelike.
I'd argue that like Beaujolais,especially like with the
natural producers, are makingsome of the cleanest, most
friendly natural style winesthat you're going to find out
there in this world.
You know they're.
They're just delicious.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, one of my favorites right now is uh on
Sophie Dubois out in Fleury.
She's got to be one of myfavorite producers right now.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Beaujolais so what are you drinking over there?
Speaker 3 (40:53):
I did see you had a glass I had a little bit of our
forgotten hills syrah.
We had one um that was abouttwo days in and I, where I
really like our wines andactually if you guys, if you
guys get the chance, save likejust a little bit of that bottle
, because our wines are reallybest on like day three.
Um, forgotten hills wine that Ihave right now is on day three
(41:16):
and it's just singing um it's.
We keep everything pretty tightin the cellar so we keep
everything on its leaves.
We uh, we basically don't racksorrel that much.
We want to keep it really tightwhen it goes in bottle.
So our wines have like a lot oflongevity in terms of aging, in
terms of um, once you open it,like they're gonna be maybe a
little tight in those first likecouple hours.
(41:38):
So like anyone that opens theirwines, I'm always like yeah, if
you can, you know, pop thatcork 24 hours before or throw it
in a decanter or whatever youcan do, because we intentionally
make this style.
That's going to be a littlequiet, without air.
You know what I mean.
But what we've seen is thatstyle gets the longevity in the
bottle.
So like we are going like wejust did a seminar a couple of
(42:01):
weeks ago and we showed our 2010reserve Syrah, and honestly, it
was tasting delicious, but,like I'd say, at least five more
years, if not.
I mean, you know what I mean,and we're already talking about
14 years in, and I'm thinking atleast five to maybe even 10
(42:21):
years longer before it reallystarts to fade, and so I think
our wines have longevity, but Ialso.
It's kind of fun.
We'll do this a lot at home is,you know, have a couple of
glasses on a bottle and thenjust be like, oh, let's open
something different and throwthat back in the wine fridge and
then come back a day or twolater, and it's, honestly,
almost always better.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
So that's awesome.
Yeah, I was during this podcast.
I'm like God damn, I reallyneed to make it to wall.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Actually I was kind of John, though, from from
Chelan, you know it, it's like,it's like solid five, five hours
.
It's, it's pretty good I is.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yeah, that's.
That's the only reason whywe're not hanging out with you
in person, right, I know,because we do do, uh, podcasts
on the road.
So I do take my setup with meand go places.
Um, I was in, I happen to be insanta barbara like in march,
and so I did a podcast in personwith, um, a winemaker down
there, which was awesome.
(43:18):
But, yeah, one thing that wereally want to do is take this
podcast on the road, go to wallawalla, do a bunch of episodes,
you know, and hopefully we canreconnect and we can do one in
person as well we could taste inthe cellar.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
We could do some fun stuff.
Like you know, walla walla is afun town too, you know.
It's like it's.
It's an easy town to reallymake like a really fun weekend
getaway.
Um, great restaurants, so manywineries, kind of cool downtown
bar scene like um, it's just it.
It's honestly.
I mean there's a reason whythere's so many wineries here,
(43:54):
kind of like Chelan.
You know what I mean.
There's a reason why there's alot of wineries in Chelan it's
because it's a fun town.
You know what I mean.
There's fun stuff to dodowntown.
It has a cool little classicdowntown vibe and we kind of
have the same thing here.
You know where.
You know, and that's what kindof makes it unique and special
(44:19):
is that you know you can comedown here, you make it a weekend
and have like a just a, areally nice time with wineries
and bars and restaurants and youknow, and it's uh, and the
people are really great too.
You know we're we're a realwine community over here.
So, and the people, are reallygreat too.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
We're a real wine community over here.
Yeah, I love the Walla Wallaarea.
I went there in June of lastyear for me and my girlfriend's
birthday.
We have the same birthday, notthe same year, but the same date
, june 20th, which is crazy.
But we went down there and sheis a former chef, private chef,
(44:57):
and she is a I guess she's anoperations manager of a
restaurant group in Seattle now.
So we went down there.
She did all the culinary things.
She booked all of them.
That was her job.
My job was the wine stuff,things.
She booked all of them, thatwas her job.
(45:17):
My job was the wine stuff.
And so we went to you guys, um,in June and we bought like six
bottles or something.
Um, I think this is like kindof like the last of that, but,
um, and we went to Kinglet andKinglet was fucking amazing and
I'm so sad, rip Kinglet.
Um, it was a great restaurant.
I'm so bad, I'm so sad, ripkinglet.
Um, it was a great restaurant.
I'm so bad, I'm so sad it'sclosed down now.
(45:40):
So I really want to go back.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
So sad we're in the same boat.
It was, uh, it was, an amazingrestaurant it's.
You know, that's the hardestthing about walla walla and I
feel like kinglet was amazingit's.
It's hard to be too fancy inwall and that's the only thing.
That that's difficult here isbecause, like, when it really
comes down to it, you know wehave a tourist season and then
we also have a local season andthe locals are blue collar, cut
(46:04):
of the earth farmers.
You know what I mean.
And like you gotta have justlike a normal burger, honestly,
like you gotta have that likesteak frites or you know,
whatever, whatever it is thatkeeps them going.
But man, kinglet was awesome.
We'll miss them, you know I'mI'm excited that you know they
get to focus on what they'redoing in Seattle, but it's, it's
(46:24):
kind of a bummer and we'rereally hoping, you know, for the
best for those guys.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
So Absolutely Befriend of my friend Chauncey.
He was a sommelier down therehe moved to new york city.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
He moved to new york.
Yeah, I'm not sure where he'sworking over there, but like, I
definitely saw that he's in newyork city now.
So that's pretty cool for him.
It's a probably a pretty bigleap.
But you know, it's like man, ifyou uh, as a sommelier, like
that's, that's the place.
You know what I mean absolutely.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
I mean he's got the skills, he has the knowledge, he
has got the experience.
You know, I was hoping he'dwind up somewhere in the pnw so
I can go see him again exactlybut maybe that's a, you know,
another podcast for another timeyou know what that's.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
The thing about the pacific northwest is everyone
that leaves always wants to comeback.
I mean, they leave for so longand then you're like, oh man,
like there's somethingwashington and oregon, like
there's just something reallynice about washington and oregon
that I think it's like theoutdoors and like the wine and
the food and the people, andit's just like there's so much
(47:31):
here that like just keeps youwanting to live here.
You know what I mean?
I just like, um, yeah, I don'tknow, I can see myself living
somewhere else someday, but atthe same time, like I think I
would always come back tosomewhere in the pacific
northwest because it just has avibe to it, you know absolutely.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
I mean I lived in santa barbara for 11 years and
as a amazing wine scene thepeople there are awesome in the
wine community, like awesomeculinary scene.
I mean, at the end of the day,just so fucking expensive to
live there and I missedwashington state and so I was
like I need to move back.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
So california, man, it's a, it's a great state.
There's a lot, a lot of greatthings in california.
I love.
I especially love the pasorobles area.
We love going down there.
Um, we actually have hospice torone happening this week um
first time ever, so we're superexcited about that.
But we always used to go downto hospice to rone down in paso,
and so I really love that area.
(48:28):
California is great.
But like, yeah, you're right,living down there is a hard life
, man.
I mean you're, you're, you'reworking to live.
You know what I mean.
And I'd rather be in thenorthwest where we're, we're, uh
, you know, we're just livingand and our jobs are what we
have to do, but at the same time, it's not every single thing in
your life, you know yeah, I'm afull washington girl, go cougs,
(48:50):
you know okay baby, we'refriends forever, now you know
yeah
Speaker 1 (48:59):
so you know, we're bonded forever I went to the
homecoming game uh this pastyear and in pullman that was my
first game ever.
Um, I never went to wazoo.
I mean I did online for likeviticulture and whatnot.
But I grew up in Seattle andI've always been more of a Coug
(49:20):
than a Husky so it was kind ofnice going there for viticulture
and my girlfriend, she'sthoroughbred, she's legacy Coug
all the way.
So I went with her, got to seeher old sorority house, you know
, saw the see how the coogsreally party yeah, it was pretty
nuts I heard you fell asleep.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
I did can't keep up with the coogs.
But uh, when, uh, what monthwas the game was?
It?
Was it november?
It was october.
Gosh, those co games.
I swear.
I've been to four games, fourBeavers-Cougars games, and those
(50:02):
are the coldest games I've everbeen to in my entire life.
I've never been colder ever inmy life than at a Cougars game.
The Palouse is just frigid,that air, and all you want to do
is just leave and go drink more.
So now I it, I get why the coup.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
You know it's, it's, you just get I think my go-to
drink was angry orchard with ashot of fireball in it and, oh
my god, before games, just shootthat down.
I can't, I cannot.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
What the fuck is wrong with you A little while,
until the sugar rush kicks in.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
I mean, at the time I went to the game I had a bit of
a cold so my sinuses were justlike Blocking and I knew if I
was on Coors Lights the sinusstuff Would.
Get out of me it would get outof me, it would get worse, and
so I was on what I decided to do.
I was like I'm just going to dowhiskey gingers the whole time
(51:06):
I'm there.
A bad choice, very bad choice,because after you're used to
drinking Coors lights like that,um going and whiskey gingers go
down really easy and I wasdrinking them like Coors Lights
and it was not a bad.
It was not a good scene to see.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
I actually got.
I got kicked out of the Cougover there in the Coug.
I showed up and we the Beavershad just won and I still had on,
like I think I had a Beaversbeanie on, and I walked up and
we the Beavers had just won andI still had on, like I think I
had a Beavers beanie on, and Iwalked in and everyone just
stopped everything they weredoing.
I know, oh, should I go back tothe, to the hotel, and like
(51:49):
change into like oh, no, likethat'll be cool, like we'll just
go get some food, it'll be fine.
It was just go get some food,it'll be fine.
It was like as soon as wewalked in, it was record scratch
.
Everyone stopped theirconversation.
I think there's better placesfor you, sir I can.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
I can picture it now it was.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
It wasn't bad, it wasn't super confrontational.
We found another cool bar, likesome book bar.
I don't remember what it wascalled, but, um, yeah, it's kind
of interesting yeah, it's a.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
It's an interesting place, for sure.
I still need to bring myboyfriend there and see what he
thinks.
Oh, he has never been there ohmy god we gotta go together at
some point.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
That's crazy yeah the the farther your gap gets from
like the college age, it getsmore different and different.
So you gotta gotta attack itsooner than later.
You know, because, like, whenyou start to get old, then
you're like, what are these kidsdoing, you know, whereas, like
you know, 10 years before you'relike, oh, these kids are
awesome.
Like let's hang, know.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
And we're getting real close to that 10 year mark.
Speaker 3 (52:58):
I'm past it, so you know.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
I mean, the last time I was there, I was in this
place called Valhalla Cougs.
Know what that place is, butit's a.
It's a cool bar, has reallygood wings, amazing wings.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Like a country bar.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Yeah, it's a cool spot.
They have like a basement areathat has another bar location
there which is dope.
But a bunch of college kidswere sitting next to us and I
was with a bunch of alumni andone of them accidentally bumped
into me and he's like I'm sorry,bro.
I was like, oh, you're fine, nogood, no worries.
And then he was like hey, whatyear are you?
(53:33):
I'm like yo, I'm.
I didn't tell him how old I was, I was like guess.
And he was like are you like ajunior?
Or I'm like, nah, I'm way pastthat.
But, thank you.
I was like thanks, man.
Yeah, so it was fun.
I told him I'm 33 and he waslike oh, what the fuck, that's
crazy old man.
Yeah, so it was fun.
(53:53):
I told him I'm 33 and he waslike oh, what the fuck, that's
crazy Old man.
Like you're not even gray yet.
Like what's in it?
I've been getting some grays inthe beard, though you know it's
happening.
It's happening, can't sit youngforever.
All right, brandon, that's itfor our time today.
(54:13):
Thank you so much for joiningus on this podcast.
We really appreciate it.
Loved hearing about you.
Loved hearing about the wine.
Real quick, anything you wantto plug for the winery.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
I mean, come visit us .
In Walla Walla we have anawesome tasting room.
It's a speakeasy style tastingroom, so you wouldn't even know
it if it's here.
We don't have a sign aspeakeasy style taste room, so
you wouldn't even know it ifit's here.
We don't have a sign.
You have to kind of like, findus.
So it's kind of this cool vibe.
Um, it feels like your livingroom.
It's a really fun place.
Um, if you're in walla wallathis next week, honestly,
hospice to ron is happening here.
Um, it's going to be a newthing in walla walla, if you
want to go to, like, one of thecoolest events that's going to
(54:50):
be in the pacific northwest.
This is something that has onlybeen in Paso Robles.
It's coming to Walla Walla forthe first time.
I don't think it's the lasttime it's coming to Walla Walla,
so it's a super exciting eventLike we love for you to be at.
That I mean, honestly, justcome here, because, honestly,
everyone that just comes here,they end up coming here every
year from now on.
I mean, that's just the way itgoes.
(55:15):
All that's just the way it goesall at once and then, next thing
you know, you're already makingplans on your next trip here.
So come visit us.
Our wines are awesome.
We'll give you an awesomeexperience at the winery, um.
We'll set you up with othercool places in the valley and um
, you know, it's just.
You'll have a great time, socome on over absolutely sorry.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
We need to do our goodbye cheers.
I totally forgot she's empty.
That's good, and I'll do alittle bit more in here.
Right right, right.
Okay, here we are.
Thank you so much.
Brandon appreciate it.
Thank you all the links are inthe show notes.
Go there.
Thank you guys.
Thank you, cheers.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
Hey you, now that I have your attention and you've
listened to this wonderfulpodcast that we had to offer,
we'd like you to scroll down.
And what are they going to dowhen they scroll down?
Speaker 1 (56:11):
Ian, scroll down and give us some feedback.
Rate us on your podcastplatform ideally five stars, and
if you would give us somecritical feedback, you can DM us
on Instagram at OfficialBungPod.
Let's hear it, let's go.
(56:31):
It is only two of us writingthe show, two of us producing
the show.
It's me, ian king, jasmineshattuck and the lovely becca
hines as our producers and ourwriters are me, ian king and
(56:52):
jasmine shattuck let's go, let'sgo.
Bung pod.
Welcome back, wine Wonderboy.
We got Jazzy J.
Jazzy, what is a bung?
The hole of the barrel iscalled a bung hole.
Inside the bung hole is calleda bung Wine with mayhem.
That's what it's about.
Back to the bung pod.
(00:21):
Everybody, my name's Ian King,aka Wine Wonderboy.
I got my co-host with me, jazzyJ.
Say what's up?
What's up, what's up?
A few things, a few things onthe docket.
Go get our merch bungpodstore,get some hoodies, get some teas.
All the links in thedescription and all the links to
(00:44):
this interview, all of theirmarketing Wine Club.
Go do it.
It's going to be in the shownotes below as well, and without
further ado, we have a greatepisode for you guys.
Here we have our friend fromGramercy Cellars.
We have Brandon Moss here.
He's the winemaker.
What's up, brandon?
(01:05):
Thanks for having me.
Thanks, guys, of course, thanksfor taking your time out.
It seems like you had a reallybusy day today.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, it was a busy day.
I was just getting back in theswing of things, been selling
some wine on the road, was justin Toronto, montreal.
We just got back from Coeurd'Alene in Seattle last week and
then I actually spent abouthalf the day just checking
vineyards because we've had areally interesting growing
(01:35):
season here so far.
We not only saw really coldtemperatures in January, which I
believe you guys are in theLake Chelan area, I think you
guys were even colder than wewere here in Walla Walla.
That happened in January andthen in the last four to five
days we've been hovering rightaround 30 degrees for the last
(01:59):
four or five days.
So it's been really interesting.
It's you, you know, mothernature's just throwing us all
she has this year.
So, um, but I just went out tothe all the estate vineyards.
Everything's looking prettyhealthy.
Some some stuff hasn't evenbutted out, which is kind of
crazy right now, becausenormally, um, my birthday is
right at the kind of uh, april12th and normally, almost every
(02:23):
year, I'll go out to thevineyards and you'll start
seeing those first signs of life.
You'll start seeing some budsopening up and this year on
April 12th, there was nothing.
Um, it was the vineyard stilllook dormant, um, you know, and
so we've been kind of pinchpatiently waiting for things to
kind of progress and finallywe're starting to see some
action, um, out in the vineyard.
(02:43):
So it's, um, I think we'rewe're starting to see some
action out in the vineyard.
So I think we've actuallyhelped ourselves because
everything's delayed.
We've been cold for the lastfive days and most vineyards
weren't actually butted out, soit actually kind of helped the
situation compared to, you know,if in a normal year, if we
would have been 15 days in andhad shoots that were three
(03:03):
inches, you know, it might be awhole different story right now.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Oh yeah, do you think they'd be more exposed to For?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
sure, I mean, you know, at any point, like any bud
is is exposed, you know what Imean.
So, whether it's three inchesor two inches or whatever, but
before they've actually, youknow, butted out, like when
they're just getting fuzzy orwhen there's just starting to be
sap flow, you're pretty wellprotected at that point.
Um, it's really when you startseeing those green leaves come
out.
Um, and you know just just thatslight, you know, couple hours
(03:33):
at 30 degrees can just fry avineyard.
And you know the the bummer is,if we fried the vineyard this
year, we might not have extrabuds to keep growing.
You know, most years, in anormal year where you don't have
, like a winter freeze, youwould have secondary and
tertiary buds that would comeafter that first one froze and
you'd still get a crop.
Like that actually happened inthe Willamette Valley, I believe
(03:56):
, is in 2022, where they frozeand then everything kind of came
back.
But this year, because we hadsuch a harsh winter freeze, I
don't know if we'd have an extrabud available at this point in
time.
So I think that we might.
You know, if we froze, theremight just be no growth other
than coming from the bottom.
So I think for the most part Ithink we we lucked out pretty
(04:18):
big time on this one um to getout pretty unscathed, and in
most parts of the Valley atleast.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean.
So what would you do ifsomething like that happened
where you didn't have growth inthe vineyard, Like how do you
pivot from that?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I mean, you know that's a tough call.
I mean, you know, as a, as awinery, you really got to make
that decision as to you knowwhat's the best thing to do with
my vineyard.
Do I cut it back to the groundand let everything regrow from
the ground?
You know, at this point in timein Walla Walla, all my stuff is
ungrafted and rootstocks juststarting to come into the valley
(04:54):
.
So, you know, depending on thesituation and what I felt like
about the vintage, you know, Imay just rip stuff out and
replant it on the properrootstock, because that's kind
of the direction we're going andwe're starting to figure out
the right rootstocks for WallaWalla, which, you know,
rootstocks aren't really all badbecause you can kind of get
(05:14):
them suited towards yourenvironment.
And so, you know, in thatsituation I might just rip
everything out and replant onproper rootstock to ensure
everything's going to be goodfor the next 50 years.
You know what I mean.
Um, and I think those are.
You know, sometimes these,these freeze events, they, they
make you make hard decisionsthat can sometimes, I don't know
, benefit you for, you know, forthe long haul.
(05:35):
So, um, but that being said,you know, um, we, we wouldn't
want to go vintage withoutproducing any fruit.
We do rely on our estatevineyards a lot, but we also the
estate vineyards for us arejust about 30, 35% of our
overall production.
So we have plenty of vineyardsoutside the valley that didn't
get hit near as hard.
And, you know, while Walla,Walla and Lake Chelan did get
(05:57):
really cold, places like theHorse Heaven Hills did not,
hills did not, you know, and sothe horse heaven hills you know
a lot of that yakima valley areathey didn't get hit near as
hard with the cold as placeslike lake chelan, bc us, um, so
I think that there's there'sgoing to be plenty of good fruit
out there.
Um, you know, if it is direcircumstances in walla walla
(06:19):
okay, very nice and how manyestate grapes do you have?
So we have we have one Syrahvineyard that has a couple of
rows of vineyard that's aboutnine acres.
We have a primarily Bordeauxvarietal vineyard on the valley
floor.
That the entire property is 20acres but we have six acres
(06:42):
under vine.
And then we're also partners inan estate vineyard that is 30
acres total but we're partneredwith quite a few other wineries
in that one.
So we kind of came together aslike a co-op with some wineries
and planted that vineyard andthat's on the very, very south
end of the Walla Walla Valley inMilton Freewater water.
But in this um, in this areacalled Savane it's basically in
(07:06):
these kind of windswept, dry umridgeline that's on the very
south of the valley it makessuper concentrated cabernet up
there, um, so you know, that'skind of what's unique about
Walla Walla is, um, we have apretty diverse climate here and
pretty diverse terroir, justbecause of how our Valley set up
(07:26):
, you know.
So we try to have our estatevineyards kind of sputtered
throughout the Valley so that wecan kind of take advantage of
different growing conditions togrow certain grapes in specific
areas of Walla Walla.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Right, that's awesome , Wow.
Um.
So right now we are drinkingyour there.
It is 2019.
Red Willow Syrah.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
That's been fantastic .
Right now the Red Willow Syrahis more of, I'd say, our more
powerful, structured version ofSyrah coming from the Yakima
Valley.
You know Yakima Valley fruit'squite a bit different than what
we're growing here in WallaWalla I'd say Walla Walla Syrahs
err on more of that like verysavory and a little more plush
(08:13):
on the palate, whereas withYakima Valley you get a little
brighter acidity than you get inWalla Walla and you get a more
structured kind of like ageable,long-term Syrah.
We really love Lanyard for thatand honestly, red Willow is one
of the best Syrah vineyards inthe state of Washington.
We love it.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, that's why I've heard that it's one of the best
Syrah vineyards in the stateand I wanted to pick your brain
and ask you why.
I mean it doesn't Looks likeyou got there's like 13.5%, you
guys, why I mean it doesn'tlooks like you got this like 13,
5%.
You guys have a pretty lighttouch in your winemaking which
and for my palate I prefer.
It's my goat, it's my thing.
I call it the, you know, likethe psalm kind of touch a little
(08:57):
bit, because a lot of psalms,they sommeliers, they just crave
those more refreshing wines,wines that aren't as big and
bold and, like you know, won't,uh, you know, hinder your palate
in any way because they they'retasting with reps all day with
all these big bordeaux's napawines, you know stuff that
(09:17):
really, um, I'm not gonna saykills your palate because it
doesn't kill it, it just, uh,you know, tires it out if it
chews your palate, it becomes alot it becomes a lot.
Yeah, and this is, um, this isbeautiful.
It has a bright acidity, uh,the tannins are very structured
as well, um, but still like avery light touch.
And can you explain your boththe winemaking side of your
(09:41):
style and also this particularvineyard?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
yeah, certainly so.
So first off, on the vineyardum, mike sour is the is the
farmer out here at red willowand it's a really unique site.
So it's it's just about, um,probably 10 miles uh, to the
south of yakima and it's reallyinteresting because it is
actually grandfathered in on avery, very large Indian
(10:05):
reservation.
So while this vineyard is knownas being like one of the top
Syrah vineyards in the state,you will not find another
vineyard around it anywhere.
There's orchards, there's lotsof other stuff, but you will not
see another vineyard around it.
But Mike Sauer is very famousbecause he was the first person
to plant Syrah in the state ofWashington in 1987.
(10:28):
And so he was working with aguy named David Lake from
Columbia Winery.
He's a master of wine.
David Lake really knew aboutthe world of wine and was buying
Cabernet from Mike Sauer andsaid Mike, I love your property,
you have the elevation, youhave the aspect to plant Syrah.
Like will you plant Syrah?
(10:48):
And at that time no one eventhought Syrah would work in
Washington and Mike Sauer took achance on the grape and kind of
, the rest was history.
And so you know, at this pointhe's devoted quite a bit of his
vineyard to Syrah and weactually get a block that is
right next to the oldestplanting at the vineyard that
(11:08):
was planted just a few yearsafter the first planting
happened out there, so we getsome really old vines out there.
It's a very sandy soil, soanytime you're growing fruit in
sandier soils you're going toget a more perfumed wine.
Um, so it's uh, uh, generallyspeaking, like if you put um in
the yakima valley, if you hadmore silty, uh, or clay type of
(11:32):
soil, you're getting even morepowerful wine than than what we
have here.
Um, but because of those kindof sandy soils you're going to
get this very perfumed, elegant,um, refreshing wine.
It's going to be kind of like,very aromatic, and then that
also kind of translates to ourwinemaking style too.
So in the winery we like to makefood-friendly wines.
(11:53):
Our founder and initialwinemaker I kind of took over
the winemaking but our initialwinemaker, greg Harrington.
He's a master sommelier.
He got all his experience inthe restaurant industry, really
focused on food, and so when wecame to make Gramercy wines, we
really wanted to makefood-friendly wines.
(12:14):
We wanted to make wines thatshow best when you put them with
a meal, and so our intentionson when we pick is always have
restraint and always haveacidity.
Acidity is really the key, Ithink, to making a food-friendly
wine, because wines withoutacidity can just get taken over
(12:34):
by whatever food they're with.
Especially if you put them witha high acid food, it's just
going to take over the wine,it's going to make the wine
taste even more flabby than itis, and so you really need to
balance those acidities, andthat's always what we think
about whenever we're picking.
In addition to that, in thewinery, we're all native ferment
.
We are pretty minimalintervention.
You know we'll add somenutrients for the yeast.
(12:57):
Other than that, we are notreally adding anything.
So you know, for the most part,we're.
I always like to say you, youknow, like, we're certainly not
a natural winery and we're nottrying to be that um, but uh, um
, uh, we're.
We're definitely like minimalintervention, um.
(13:18):
So you know, we're reallytrying to be as non-invasive as
you can possibly be.
We use just a tiny bit ofsulfur, but other than that,
like we're.
I always say like, as a winery,like if you went by, um, like
european union standards onbeing an organic winery, we
would be.
That, you know, and so that'show we.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
that's how we like to treat everything in the winery
good, do you guys use a uh piedde couve for your native
ferments as well?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
yeah, that's how I, that's how I get everything
started, um, and then usuallyfrom there I like.
Basically, what I like to do isI like to taste the
fermentations as we go and Ialways say, whatever yeasts are
kind of in their growth phase,so like I want to catch yeast
when they're growing andexpanding, you know, because
there's there's a point infermentation, like you know, and
especially in the first fivebricks of a fermentation, where
(14:08):
yeast are just rapidly expanding.
You know they're growing,they're splitting, they're you
know they're just expanding, andI always figure, if I can
capture those yeast as they'reexpanding, I'm going to be
capturing yeast in their mosthealthy phase.
So then we just taste everyfermenter every day and whatever
comes in that next day, youknow we'll, we'll pitch that
into the next thing, um, we'llusually reset that once um, once
(14:36):
Cabernet comes in, and make anew P de Cuvée or Cabernet,
usually from a Cabernet specificvineyard Um.
But for the most part our startof our season gets started with
Forgotten Hills, syrah, which isour own estate vineyard Um.
But for the most part our startof our season gets started with
forgotten Hills, which is ourown estate vineyard Um.
We farm it all organically.
So I figured it'll be a goodsubstrate for, you know, getting
everything going in the season,cause we're not really using
these like harsh sprays and so,um, you know, for the most part
(14:59):
I've.
Um, I really thought the PDUCuvée does a very good job and,
honestly, I just don't likesitting there trusting a ferment
to take off.
I really like to make sure thatit's going to take off,
especially when we're usingpretty minimal sulfur in the
winery.
You know what I mean.
I don't want to trust a vat ofgrapes sitting there for five
days hoping that it's going totake off.
(15:20):
I'd rather initiate that andmake sure we're making CO2, make
sure we're getting thebiologics under control, because
we're already taking a risk bygoing native that I figure we
need to help those natives outand make them more successful.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I learned that process through.
I had some acquaintances downin California and Santa Barbara
from Whitcraft down there, andthey have a great history.
They're awesome makers of PinotNoir, chardonnay, cool Climate
Syrah next to the ocean, andthis kind of reminds me of some
(15:58):
of their wines as well, and theyalways used a P de Couve as
well and you know, I haven'treally seen it in other places.
I've asked a lot of people thatdo native fermentations
exclusively in their winery and,yeah, I think you're the only
one so far that uses it and Ijust always wonder why people
(16:19):
don't, because it looks likeit's a very trusted process, you
know.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
And one of the things I'm going to start doing this
year is I'm going to starttesting my Poudre du Cuvée just
to make sure that you know,because I taste it every time.
But like I want to make sureI'm starting with this very
clean, very neutral profile interms of what yeast I'm getting.
So I'm going to start testingmy Poudre du Cuvée just to make
sure that the yeast that I wantin there are the ones there.
But it's it's a tried and truemethod.
(16:46):
Honestly, it works well.
You know.
You just ensure, like I said,when you're doing natives,
you're already kind of takingsome risks.
That I feel like when you canreel those risks in a little bit
and and take a calculated riskrather than just a random risk,
like you're doing a much betterjob at what you're, what you're
trying to do, because you know,like bottom line, like we want
(17:07):
to make clean wines.
You know what I mean.
We want to make wines that arefruit forward, delicious.
I mean, honestly, the deliciousfactor is the most important
thing.
You know what I mean.
It's like is it delicious?
Like if it's not delicious,then you've already failed as a
winemaker, you know yeah, yeahabsolutely gotta make sure it's
drinkable.
You know you don't want to fuckup your wine um, and so, yeah, I
(17:29):
mean it's just like we love theeffects of a native
fermentation.
It it slows down thefermentation, it doesn't get as
hot.
I think that's kind of part ofwhy our wines have this soft,
elegant feel to them, becauseour fermentations just don't get
that heat that's going toextract all those aggressive
tannins out of the wine.
(17:49):
And so we actually haven't hada native ferment go above about
78 degrees ever, and normallywhen I used to do inoculated
yeast, you'd regularly see 90,95 degrees in a ferment at the
peak.
And so we're adding a solid 10to 12 days onto our fermentation
(18:11):
and it's much more gentle onthe wine, which I think is a
style that is not going away.
Honestly, I think it's a stylethat people are gravitating
towards now, especially as weget a whole new generation of
wine drinkers in.
I feel like we are all kind ofgravitating towards this maybe
(18:32):
different style that is moresort of crushable.
It's that the chillable red,the kind of interesting, soft
approach that Native fermentsand it's a thing that I think is
um is not going away.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I think it's just going to be more and more
popular as time goes it'sinteresting that you bring up
chillable reds, because it seemslike every time I have someone
in the um tasting room they likeI'll always like, recommend.
Like you know, you can alwayschill this light-bodied red and
they're like wait what?
And I'm like it.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Nobody said you couldn't like I don't understand
the chillable red thing, youknow.
But, like, like I said, likeyou know, there there's a whole
new generation of wine drinkersthat are starting to drink wine
now and they certainly dounderstand the chillable red and
it's a thing you know.
I say like, especially inchelan, like there's some
potential for those type ofwines up there.
You know what I mean, like youknow, and a varietal that that
(19:28):
takes the whole season to getripe, but it's going to be more
light body, like plant grenachein lake chelan, although I don't
know if it could survive yourwinters, but like no no plant
something that's going to be alighter body red, and let it,
you know, not get totally matureand let it be this kind of
light bodied red, and I thinkit's a thing these days, you
(19:50):
know.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I've been pushing for Gamay up here.
You think Gamay would survivethe winters.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah, that'd be cool.
I think honestly, like there'salready Pinot Noir.
So if you can do Pinot Noir,you can do Pinot Noir, you can
do Gamay, you know, becausewe've been sourcing fruit up in
Chelan for quite a whileactually we make a vignette from
up there.
Oh what?
What vineyard?
Well, it's actually justoutside the AVA, but it's
Antoine Creek.
(20:17):
Oh yeah, OK, yeah, that'sawesome.
We've been making vignette fromAntoine Creek since 2012.
Oh wow, yeah, that's a while.
It's quite a trek, but wereally like the fruit.
So you know, it's a trek that'swell worth it and it's a very
interesting site.
It's like super granitehillside and lots of wind flow
(20:40):
through the vineyard becauseyou're on the Columbia River and
it's a pretty crazy site.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah, shout out to Antoine Creek.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
So how many cases do you guys produce?
Or how many cases do you make?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
We make, right around 10,000 ish, depending on the
vintage.
We've been as high as like14,000, but you know, those are,
those are in in heavy vintages,um, but 10,000 is kind of the
sweet spot for us.
It's it's just me and one otherguy in the cellar, and so we
were kind of like if we weremuch over 10,000, I don't, I
think we'd be swimming.
(21:14):
Uh, so it's perfect.
We have a pretty small littlefacility here too.
So, um, it's just about theright amount of wine.
And you know, the way we'vealways thought about it as a
winery is, you know, like I said, I just got done doing some
trips and I like doing trips,but like I don't want trips to
be every single week of my job,you know.
And once you start getting to acertain size, that's when, you
(21:37):
know, your job basically becomesgetting on planes every day
rather than going and checkingon vineyards, and that's where
we did not want to see thewinery going, you know so you
said you guys were in how manydifferent countries?
I think it's like 10 to 12 rightnow.
In what countries are those?
Let's see, south Korea.
We are in Singapore.
(22:04):
We are in um Singapore, we arein Japan, um Canada, we are in
Germany and Sweden.
And let's see I'm going toforget some of these European
ones, cause there's quite a fewUm oh man.
(22:29):
Definitely We've been inSwitzerland.
I'm not sure if we're there.
We're currently um, um oh man.
I know I'm forgetting one ortwo, but there's definitely a
couple more out there that we'rein.
That have been pretty positivefor us.
But, like I said, we sell a lotof wine in BC and Alberta and
(22:50):
quite a bit of wine in UK.
Other than that, internationalmarkets are not a huge part of
what we're doing.
We definitely rely on domestica lot more.
But at the same time, like Ithink it's good to have a
worldwide presence.
Um, you know, just get yourwines out there, um, and you
know it's it's kind of gets yourname out there.
(23:12):
It gets the Washington statename out there too.
Um, we work a lot with um youknow, uh, washington wine
commission and do a lot of theirevents, their events, and, you
know, kind of try to promote thestate as a whole, you know,
because I feel, like you know,in addition to promoting our own
winery, I think that gettingWashington wine on a worldwide
stage is is kind of an importantthing to do, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
All right, let's take a break for a minute, because
Jazzy has got something to tellyou.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
All right, let's talk about it.
So did you know we do haveextra episodes on Patreon and
you can only get these for $5.
What, yeah, crazy?
I know Dope, so go to Patreon.
Link is in the description ofthe episode and subscribe $5.
(24:02):
You're supporting us and you'regetting to learn more about the
wine industry.
Let's go, woo, all right, allright, all right, guess what?
I think Ian has something totell us?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I do, I do.
We got some merch going onright now.
We got hoodies Say what.
We got handbags.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
No way.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We got some merch going on right now.
We got hoodies, what we got?
Handbags no way.
We got stickers.
We got tank tops right now forthe summertime, oh hell.
Yeah, we got some windbreakerstoo.
So go to bungpodstore and getyour bungpod merch, yeah, all
right, welcome back, um.
So we talked about your caseproduction and your style of
(24:43):
winemaking, which is awesome.
I love personally.
So how did you get to be makingthis style of wine?
Like?
What's your background like?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
How'd you get into wine really?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
You know, honestly, in terms of making the style of
wine, I think, if I, if Iwouldn't have found Gramercy
early on, I don't think I, Idon't know, I don't know what
style of wine I would be making,but I'm not sure if it would be
this style.
So that's kind of one of theexciting things about finding
Gramercy early in my career.
But I, you know, funny enough,I actually.
(25:17):
So I grew up in the Walla WallaValley and I actually worked in
vineyards when I was 16 yearsold and I never, I never thought
that that would be the careerthat I would take, you know, but
, um, but I grew up kind of likeon it, on a farm, um, we, it
wasn't like our primary thing,but like on saturdays we'd go
sell plums at the farmer'smarket, you know, and, and on
(25:38):
the weekends we would, you know,um, prune plum trees and, you
know, basically work on the farmall weekend long, and so that
that's kind of what we did, um,and so I've always kind of lived
this agricultural life.
Um, I went, uh, went to oregonstate, which I'm always feel
very, very lucky for, becauseit's kind of in the heart of the
(25:59):
willamette valley there.
Um, I pre-med, um is what Iwent there for originally
started, uh, in about my fourthyear of school really started,
um, initially falling in lovewith making beer.
I got, I had a buddy that was asuper beer nerd.
He's actually in pendleton,oregon now making beer and
(26:19):
making food and uh, mustards andall these things in Pendleton.
But, um, I started brewing andreally started getting into that
.
Then you start trying.
You know lots of beers and andkind of interesting things and
things that are out there.
Um, and then, um, just veryrandomly, I had this wine shop
(26:41):
that I would walk by every dayand what's funny is I initially
went in there for a pack ofMiller High Life.
I think it was like $5.99Miller High Life and I was like,
oh, that's a deal of thecentury, let's go.
It's $5.99 Miller High Lifepack on sale.
So I'd always go in there and Ieventually started going in.
(27:03):
I'd chat with the guy and he'dbe like, oh, you should try this
wine or you should try thisWillamette Valley Pinot Noir,
it's really good.
And so I started trying thatand I really started loving
Pinot Noir and Willamette ValleyPinot Noir especially.
And this was like you know,this would have been like, oh,
four or five.
This is like when you couldactually afford Pinot Noir on
(27:26):
like a college kid's book.
You know it was like 20, 30bucks would get you something
that was like pretty good, youknow, and um, and so I just
started, you know, walk by theshop, I'd pick up a bottle of
wine and take it home and try it.
Like really started like goingdown that rabbit hole.
And you know, I think, as weall know, like wine is one of
(27:47):
those things that it's justendless knowledge is out there
and you can never know it alland you just keep striving to
know more.
You know, and so it was one ofthose things that, like I've
always liked learning aboutthings.
Like it's just been a thing Ilike learning and like figuring
out stuff, and so wine was justone of those things that I feel
like you can never figure outcompletely.
(28:07):
It's like there's no one inthis world that knows every
single thing about wine, becauseit's just not possible to do so
.
You know there's, there'smaster sommeliers who know so
much about, you know, all theproducers of the world, but like
, if you gave them a complexorganic chemistry equation,
that's something that'shappening in wine.
I bet most of them can't solveit.
You know, um, and then theydecide that know all that, you
(28:29):
know and and probably can't tellyou a producer in the world.
You know, um, and so you know.
So I basically got in the wineprogram, learned food science,
winemaking, um, when I worked atking estate in the willamette
valley.
Uh, they're one of the largestum organic producers.
Um, they were the largestorganic producer in oregon and
(28:50):
maybe one of the larger organicproducers like on the whole west
coast.
They're very large in terms oforganics, and so I really wanted
to learn that.
So I went, went there, and thenI took a jaunt to New Zealand
and worked down there, reallywanted to see a bigger winery,
see what Sauvignon Blanc wasmade.
It was a really interestingventure, I feel like.
(29:12):
Down there I went to a winerythat was way too big, but at the
same time it was pretty cool.
I met a lot of really neatpeople.
It was pretty cool.
I met a lot of really neatpeople.
Basically, we had internsrepresented from every
winemaking region in the world,and so it was like this melting
pot of cultures down there.
And then, honestly, I came backto Walla Walla, which was
(29:33):
supposed to be just a quickweek-long vacation meeting up
with some friends and family,and then I was going to go back
to the Willamette Valley and Ibasically tried the wines that
were being made here and waslike, oh my god, I can't believe
this is like being made where Igrew up, because that wasn't
really happening when I left,you know, and I hadn't really
(29:54):
tasted those wines all that muchbecause Walla Walla wines
didn't really have the reach toget to the Willamette where I
was living or get to New Zealand.
So I hadn't really have thereach to get to the Willamette
where I was living or get to NewZealand.
So I hadn't really tried manyof these wines.
And I just fell in love withwhat was being made here and
(30:15):
quickly hooked up with some ofthe people that were making wine
at the same place whereGramercy was making wine.
I became the cellar master forthat facility and then started
kind of taking over a lot ofresponsibilities for Gramercy
and quickly realized that Gregand I Greg the owner and I
really worked well together andwe were kind of like that yin
and yang.
You know he was a mastersommelier who was very erythro
about wine.
I was kind of this chemistrywine student who knew a lot
(30:36):
about making wine, who knew alot about science but didn't
necessarily know like nothingabout you know kind of the
worldwide scope of wine makingwine, who knew a lot about
science but didn't necessarilyknow like nothing about you know
kind of the worldwide scope ofwine.
And so it was kind of this likecool balancing act.
You know, he would show me coolthings or show me cool books
that he'd read in his mastersommelier studies and then I
would read them and I'd be like,oh, you know, I I didn't know
about using whole clusterfermentation or like why would
(30:59):
you do fermentation?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
But then, like you try these things, you're like oh
, okay, now I kind of get it,you know.
So where did you?
Um, what was the winery in newzealand?
So it was a very, very largewinery, so it was called indivin
um, massive, and they're evennow.
So they were massive when I wasthere back in like 2007.
But from the people I've talkedto that have gone there more
recently, it has like 10 timesthe size of what it was when I
(31:27):
was there, and like to put itwhat I always like to say about
Indivin.
So I worked my way up from I waspretty young, like they didn't
want to let me run the presses,but I like to.
I like to kind of challengemyself and I really wanted to
run the presses.
You know, I was like this iswhat I came here to do.
And so eventually I I gotbumped up and I got to run the
(31:48):
presses and, um, I was runningthree presses in the night.
We would do three press loadson all three presses and on one
single cycle through these threepresses I was running 400 tons,
holy, holy, 250 ton pressuresand 100 ton press every night it
(32:09):
was.
It was absolutely bonkers likeI would get.
I ran the night shift and Iwould get to work and there
would literally be dump trucks,double dump trucks, lined up for
like miles, you know, justwaiting to unload breaks.
Um, it was just, it was abonkers.
I mean, it showed you a verydifferent side of the wine
(32:29):
industry that I don't think, um,I don't think we normally
experience that in in oregon andwashington.
It's not something we see, um,and while it was really cool to
see once, um, I don't think I'dwant to do it again, other than
other than meeting all thepeople.
I mean that that's what wasreally cool about the whole
situation, is they?
(32:50):
They we had 60 interns, so Imean you can only imagine how
big 60 interns and they put usall up in a hostel and so every
night was like us gettingtogether, sharing wines, making
food and just like learningabout each other's culture.
So like, well, maybe the winerywas a little bit too big, um, to
(33:13):
really like, you know,encapsulate like the learning
environment that I wanted, likejust learning from the people
and meeting all the people.
And now having all thesecontacts and you know, portugal
or Spain or Italy or wherever,it's like if I need to go, like
if I needed to go to Portugal, Iknow I have someone's couch.
I can sleep on tomorrow.
You know what I mean, andthat's.
(33:33):
That's a pretty cool feeling,you know.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Absolutely so.
I have a question from goinggoing from studying wine and
then going under Greg, and atthat point you didn't really
have a lot of experience withthe world of wine, but you knew
the chemistry behind everythingand winemaking.
How did he and him being amaster?
(33:59):
How did he and him being amaster?
How did you, how did he exposeyou to the world of wine?
His books, like what's yourexperience?
Speaker 3 (34:12):
actual tasting wines or what kind of wines did you
try?
That opened your mind, yeah.
So one of the one of the firstthings he did when I started
working for him full time is hewas like you need to go buy this
book right now and it wascalled the Wines of the Northern
Rhone.
And I basically read that bookfront to back.
And the Wines of the NorthernRhone is a really cool book
because basically it'll have aproducer and then it says all
(34:33):
the wines that they make andthey tell you about their
thought process behind makingall of those wines.
It tells you where it's, fromwhat level they harvested it at,
if they did whole cluster, ifthey were native, blah, blah,
blah.
But it gives you all theinformation on what they do.
And then what I did is I justread it and, as we would try
(34:54):
wines, I would cross-check thosewith the things I'd read in
that book and been like, oh, Ireally like this wine.
Like, oh, why do I like it?
And I'd go look it up in thebook and I'd be like, oh, so
they're doing this, this andthis.
And like, oh, that's kind ofcool.
Like who's doing that inWashington?
It's like, oh, no, one's doingthat in Washington.
Oh well, maybe we should trydoing that, you know.
And so that's kind of how itgoes.
And you know it's like you trysomething, you see if it works,
(35:19):
and then you're like, ok, well,well, that worked.
Or like, hey, maybe that didn'twork, like, let's, you know,
you're never going to make a badwine.
Well, sorry, preface that youcan make a bad wine with trial
and error.
Be taking a trial.
That's going to result in, like, making a terrible wine.
It's like, am I going to makesomething good or better?
You know what I mean not notbad or good, you know.
(35:44):
And so we would do trials thatlike wouldn't necessarily like
make bad wines, but like, hey,let's try 100 whole cluster and
something and see, see what itdoes, you know, but let's only
do it in a half a ton ratherthan in four tons.
You know, um, and so we woulddo these little trials.
When the winery started, and youknow, that's kind of like what
it came from, um, but you know,like, really, um, greg exposed
me to a lot of northern rhonewines that I just wouldn't have
(36:07):
known existed.
You know, I'm probably myfavorite one, probably the most
geeky one, um, but uh, jammy, um, jammy coat roti, that's, let's
go that right.
There is, like you know, it'sit's not about fruit, it's about
like olives and brine and meatand it's like everything I love
(36:28):
in syrah and honestly ever foundthat wine, because it's not a
wine that like, like, if you'rea connoisseur, like it's not a
wine that necessarily issomething that everyone knows,
like a lot of people in theNorthern Rome they'll know all
of them on, they'll know shop,they'll know kind of those class
or Ross thing, um or um, uh, weall you know like those are the
(36:52):
big ones, those are thecollectors wines, but like, yeah
, may is that's a geeky wine,you know, and that's a cool.
The other one that Greg exposedme to that like I would have
never have known, is GanonSaint-Joseph.
That's one that is not supercommon.
It's gotten really expensive todate but like I still think
(37:16):
that like, not that many peopleknow about that wine and it's
one of the most deliciousNorthern Rhone Syrahs that I've
ever had.
And then you know, like, when itcomes to like bordeaux wines, I
mean we don't drink all thatmuch, us bordeaux wines, because
we really ache in ourselves tolike, want to make a bordeaux
style, you know.
And so I really like you know,just the, the classics um in in
(37:37):
bordeaux, you know, like uh, puyla coste, um, you know, like uh
, puy-le-coste, um, you know.
So, uh, just the classics, Ifeel like really embody um what
we want to make Um, and so, youknow, while we started as a
Syrah winery, I feel like youknow, we're kind of an equal
Bordeaux and Syrah winery umthese days.
So I like to, um, you know,kind of uh, go on both sides and
(37:59):
and try both, you knowabsolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I mean, yeah, some of those producers you're named um
, I probably went right overjasmine's head, but at some
point in the vineyard I reallyhope to expose her to a lot of
those producers like jma allthem on.
There's some of my favorites.
I have yet to have a shop.
Uh, one of my bucket list winesis a shop, and so it's.
(38:23):
It's a very fucking expensivewine and so, um, I have yet to
get my hands on it those wineshave gotten so expensive, like
even jam a.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
I remember when, um, when I first got exposed to it
with greg and I looked to go buysome, I I think it was only $55
, maybe $60.
I know, I definitely boughtsome, I remember, and then every
year I'd go look again and whenthey released and it was like,
(38:53):
oh well, it was 55.
Oh, now it's 70.
Oh, now it's 90.
And I'm not talking like $5price increases, I'm talking
twenty dollars a year.
And then now I don't even.
I think the last time I saw itwas like well, actually the
estate split, so it's kind ofdifferent.
Now the brothers, the brotherssplit the estate, so now there's
two different jmas.
(39:13):
So I don't know if you cannecessarily compare straight up
what they're making now withmaybe what was happening.
I think it happened maybe fiveto six years ago.
Um, but like, the last time Isaw it it was like I mean, those
bottles were like 190 dollars,I think you know 100, 200, and
so they've gone crazy.
Same thing happened with ganon.
(39:34):
You know, ganon you used to beable to get for like 45 dollars.
It was a smoking deal becauseit's because ganon is actually
Saint Joseph, which is not quiteas famous Appalachian as like
Cote Roti or Hermitage, and sosmoking deals.
But it's the same thing forGanon.
Those wines are now like $175.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Wow, yeah, it's nuts right now.
That's, like you know, 45, 50bucks.
That's what like Cru Beaujolaisis going for nowadays.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Yeah, it's wild and Cru.
Beaujolais used to be like 25,you know Exactly.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
People like fucking me that keeps pushing Gamay and
Beaujolais, Driving the fuckingprices up.
Man.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Cru Beaujolais is just inherently delicious and
there's a lot of cool likenaturally producers in
Beaujolais is just inherentlydelicious and there's a lot of
cool like naturally producers inBeaujolais.
That I think, makes them likelike.
I'd argue that like Beaujolais,especially like with the
natural producers, are makingsome of the cleanest, most
friendly natural style winesthat you're going to find out
there in this world.
You know they're.
They're just delicious.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, one of my favorites right now is uh on
Sophie Dubois out in Fleury.
She's got to be one of myfavorite producers right now.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Beaujolais so what are you drinking over there?
Speaker 3 (40:53):
I did see you had a glass I had a little bit of our
forgotten hills syrah.
We had one um that was abouttwo days in and I, where I
really like our wines andactually if you guys, if you
guys get the chance, save likejust a little bit of that bottle
, because our wines are reallybest on like day three.
Um, forgotten hills wine that Ihave right now is on day three
(41:16):
and it's just singing um it's.
We keep everything pretty tightin the cellar so we keep
everything on its leaves.
We uh, we basically don't racksorrel that much.
We want to keep it really tightwhen it goes in bottle.
So our wines have like a lot oflongevity in terms of aging, in
terms of um, once you open it,like they're gonna be maybe a
little tight in those first likecouple hours.
(41:38):
So like anyone that opens theirwines, I'm always like yeah, if
you can, you know, pop thatcork 24 hours before or throw it
in a decanter or whatever youcan do, because we intentionally
make this style.
That's going to be a littlequiet, without air.
You know what I mean.
But what we've seen is thatstyle gets the longevity in the
bottle.
So like we are going like wejust did a seminar a couple of
(42:01):
weeks ago and we showed our 2010reserve Syrah, and honestly, it
was tasting delicious, but,like I'd say, at least five more
years, if not.
I mean, you know what I mean,and we're already talking about
14 years in, and I'm thinking atleast five to maybe even 10
(42:21):
years longer before it reallystarts to fade, and so I think
our wines have longevity, but Ialso.
It's kind of fun.
We'll do this a lot at home is,you know, have a couple of
glasses on a bottle and thenjust be like, oh, let's open
something different and throwthat back in the wine fridge and
then come back a day or twolater, and it's, honestly,
almost always better.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
So that's awesome.
Yeah, I was during this podcast.
I'm like God damn, I reallyneed to make it to wall.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Actually I was kind of John, though, from from
Chelan, you know it, it's like,it's like solid five, five hours
.
It's, it's pretty good I is.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yeah, that's.
That's the only reason whywe're not hanging out with you
in person, right, I know,because we do do, uh, podcasts
on the road.
So I do take my setup with meand go places.
Um, I was in, I happen to be insanta barbara like in march,
and so I did a podcast in personwith, um, a winemaker down
there, which was awesome.
(43:18):
But, yeah, one thing that wereally want to do is take this
podcast on the road, go to wallawalla, do a bunch of episodes,
you know, and hopefully we canreconnect and we can do one in
person as well we could taste inthe cellar.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
We could do some fun stuff.
Like you know, walla walla is afun town too, you know.
It's like it's.
It's an easy town to reallymake like a really fun weekend
getaway.
Um, great restaurants, so manywineries, kind of cool downtown
bar scene like um, it's just it.
It's honestly.
I mean there's a reason whythere's so many wineries here,
(43:54):
kind of like Chelan.
You know what I mean.
There's a reason why there's alot of wineries in Chelan it's
because it's a fun town.
You know what I mean.
There's fun stuff to dodowntown.
It has a cool little classicdowntown vibe and we kind of
have the same thing here.
You know where.
You know, and that's what kindof makes it unique and special
(44:19):
is that you know you can comedown here, you make it a weekend
and have like a just a, areally nice time with wineries
and bars and restaurants and youknow, and it's uh, and the
people are really great too.
You know we're we're a realwine community over here.
So, and the people, are reallygreat too.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
We're a real wine community over here.
Yeah, I love the Walla Wallaarea.
I went there in June of lastyear for me and my girlfriend's
birthday.
We have the same birthday, notthe same year, but the same date
, june 20th, which is crazy.
But we went down there and sheis a former chef, private chef,
(44:57):
and she is a I guess she's anoperations manager of a
restaurant group in Seattle now.
So we went down there.
She did all the culinary things.
She booked all of them.
That was her job.
My job was the wine stuff,things.
She booked all of them, thatwas her job.
(45:17):
My job was the wine stuff.
And so we went to you guys, um,in June and we bought like six
bottles or something.
Um, I think this is like kindof like the last of that, but,
um, and we went to Kinglet andKinglet was fucking amazing and
I'm so sad, rip Kinglet.
Um, it was a great restaurant.
I'm so bad, I'm so sad, ripkinglet.
Um, it was a great restaurant.
I'm so bad, I'm so sad it'sclosed down now.
(45:40):
So I really want to go back.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
So sad we're in the same boat.
It was, uh, it was, an amazingrestaurant it's.
You know, that's the hardestthing about walla walla and I
feel like kinglet was amazingit's.
It's hard to be too fancy inwall and that's the only thing.
That that's difficult here isbecause, like, when it really
comes down to it, you know wehave a tourist season and then
we also have a local season andthe locals are blue collar, cut
(46:04):
of the earth farmers.
You know what I mean.
And like you gotta have justlike a normal burger, honestly,
like you gotta have that likesteak frites or you know,
whatever, whatever it is thatkeeps them going.
But man, kinglet was awesome.
We'll miss them, you know I'mI'm excited that you know they
get to focus on what they'redoing in Seattle, but it's, it's
(46:24):
kind of a bummer and we'rereally hoping, you know, for the
best for those guys.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
So Absolutely Befriend of my friend Chauncey.
He was a sommelier down therehe moved to new york city.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
He moved to new york.
Yeah, I'm not sure where he'sworking over there, but like, I
definitely saw that he's in newyork city now.
So that's pretty cool for him.
It's a probably a pretty bigleap.
But you know, it's like man, ifyou uh, as a sommelier, like
that's, that's the place.
You know what I mean absolutely.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
I mean he's got the skills, he has the knowledge, he
has got the experience.
You know, I was hoping he'dwind up somewhere in the pnw so
I can go see him again exactlybut maybe that's a, you know,
another podcast for another timeyou know what that's.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
The thing about the pacific northwest is everyone
that leaves always wants to comeback.
I mean, they leave for so longand then you're like, oh man,
like there's somethingwashington and oregon, like
there's just something reallynice about washington and oregon
that I think it's like theoutdoors and like the wine and
the food and the people, andit's just like there's so much
(47:31):
here that like just keeps youwanting to live here.
You know what I mean?
I just like, um, yeah, I don'tknow, I can see myself living
somewhere else someday, but atthe same time, like I think I
would always come back tosomewhere in the pacific
northwest because it just has avibe to it, you know absolutely.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
I mean I lived in santa barbara for 11 years and
as a amazing wine scene thepeople there are awesome in the
wine community, like awesomeculinary scene.
I mean, at the end of the day,just so fucking expensive to
live there and I missedwashington state and so I was
like I need to move back.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
So california, man, it's a, it's a great state.
There's a lot, a lot of greatthings in california.
I love.
I especially love the pasorobles area.
We love going down there.
Um, we actually have hospice torone happening this week um
first time ever, so we're superexcited about that.
But we always used to go downto hospice to rone down in paso,
and so I really love that area.
(48:28):
California is great.
But like, yeah, you're right,living down there is a hard life
, man.
I mean you're, you're, you'reworking to live.
You know what I mean.
And I'd rather be in thenorthwest where we're, we're, uh
, you know, we're just livingand and our jobs are what we
have to do, but at the same time, it's not every single thing in
your life, you know yeah, I'm afull washington girl, go cougs,
(48:50):
you know okay baby, we'refriends forever, now you know
yeah
Speaker 1 (48:59):
so you know, we're bonded forever I went to the
homecoming game uh this pastyear and in pullman that was my
first game ever.
Um, I never went to wazoo.
I mean I did online for likeviticulture and whatnot.
But I grew up in Seattle andI've always been more of a Coug
(49:20):
than a Husky so it was kind ofnice going there for viticulture
and my girlfriend, she'sthoroughbred, she's legacy Coug
all the way.
So I went with her, got to seeher old sorority house, you know
, saw the see how the coogsreally party yeah, it was pretty
nuts I heard you fell asleep.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
I did can't keep up with the coogs.
But uh, when, uh, what monthwas the game was?
It?
Was it november?
It was october.
Gosh, those co games.
I swear.
I've been to four games, fourBeavers-Cougars games, and those
(50:02):
are the coldest games I've everbeen to in my entire life.
I've never been colder ever inmy life than at a Cougars game.
The Palouse is just frigid,that air, and all you want to do
is just leave and go drink more.
So now I it, I get why the coup.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
You know it's, it's, you just get I think my go-to
drink was angry orchard with ashot of fireball in it and, oh
my god, before games, just shootthat down.
I can't, I cannot.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
What the fuck is wrong with you A little while,
until the sugar rush kicks in.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
I mean, at the time I went to the game I had a bit of
a cold so my sinuses were justlike Blocking and I knew if I
was on Coors Lights the sinusstuff Would.
Get out of me it would get outof me, it would get worse, and
so I was on what I decided to do.
I was like I'm just going to dowhiskey gingers the whole time
(51:06):
I'm there.
A bad choice, very bad choice,because after you're used to
drinking Coors lights like that,um going and whiskey gingers go
down really easy and I wasdrinking them like Coors Lights
and it was not a bad.
It was not a good scene to see.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
I actually got.
I got kicked out of the Cougover there in the Coug.
I showed up and we the Beavershad just won and I still had on,
like I think I had a Beaversbeanie on, and I walked up and
we the Beavers had just won andI still had on, like I think I
had a Beavers beanie on, and Iwalked in and everyone just
stopped everything they weredoing.
I know, oh, should I go back tothe, to the hotel, and like
(51:49):
change into like oh, no, likethat'll be cool, like we'll just
go get some food, it'll be fine.
It was just go get some food,it'll be fine.
It was like as soon as wewalked in, it was record scratch
.
Everyone stopped theirconversation.
I think there's better placesfor you, sir I can.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
I can picture it now it was.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
It wasn't bad, it wasn't super confrontational.
We found another cool bar, likesome book bar.
I don't remember what it wascalled, but, um, yeah, it's kind
of interesting yeah, it's a.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
It's an interesting place, for sure.
I still need to bring myboyfriend there and see what he
thinks.
Oh, he has never been there ohmy god we gotta go together at
some point.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
That's crazy yeah the the farther your gap gets from
like the college age, it getsmore different and different.
So you gotta gotta attack itsooner than later.
You know, because, like, whenyou start to get old, then
you're like, what are these kidsdoing, you know, whereas, like
you know, 10 years before you'relike, oh, these kids are
awesome.
Like let's hang, know.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
And we're getting real close to that 10 year mark.
Speaker 3 (52:58):
I'm past it, so you know.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
I mean, the last time I was there, I was in this
place called Valhalla Cougs.
Know what that place is, butit's a.
It's a cool bar, has reallygood wings, amazing wings.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Like a country bar.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Yeah, it's a cool spot.
They have like a basement areathat has another bar location
there which is dope.
But a bunch of college kidswere sitting next to us and I
was with a bunch of alumni andone of them accidentally bumped
into me and he's like I'm sorry,bro.
I was like, oh, you're fine, nogood, no worries.
And then he was like hey, whatyear are you?
(53:33):
I'm like yo, I'm.
I didn't tell him how old I was, I was like guess.
And he was like are you like ajunior?
Or I'm like, nah, I'm way pastthat.
But, thank you.
I was like thanks, man.
Yeah, so it was fun.
I told him I'm 33 and he waslike oh, what the fuck, that's
crazy old man.
Yeah, so it was fun.
(53:53):
I told him I'm 33 and he waslike oh, what the fuck, that's
crazy Old man.
Like you're not even gray yet.
Like what's in it?
I've been getting some grays inthe beard, though you know it's
happening.
It's happening, can't sit youngforever.
All right, brandon, that's itfor our time today.
(54:13):
Thank you so much for joiningus on this podcast.
We really appreciate it.
Loved hearing about you.
Loved hearing about the wine.
Real quick, anything you wantto plug for the winery.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
I mean, come visit us .
In Walla Walla we have anawesome tasting room.
It's a speakeasy style tastingroom, so you wouldn't even know
it if it's here.
We don't have a sign aspeakeasy style taste room, so
you wouldn't even know it ifit's here.
We don't have a sign.
You have to kind of like, findus.
So it's kind of this cool vibe.
Um, it feels like your livingroom.
It's a really fun place.
Um, if you're in walla wallathis next week, honestly,
hospice to ron is happening here.
Um, it's going to be a newthing in walla walla, if you
want to go to, like, one of thecoolest events that's going to
(54:50):
be in the pacific northwest.
This is something that has onlybeen in Paso Robles.
It's coming to Walla Walla forthe first time.
I don't think it's the lasttime it's coming to Walla Walla,
so it's a super exciting eventLike we love for you to be at.
That I mean, honestly, justcome here, because, honestly,
everyone that just comes here,they end up coming here every
year from now on.
I mean, that's just the way itgoes.
(55:15):
All that's just the way it goesall at once and then, next thing
you know, you're already makingplans on your next trip here.
So come visit us.
Our wines are awesome.
We'll give you an awesomeexperience at the winery, um.
We'll set you up with othercool places in the valley and um
, you know, it's just.
You'll have a great time, socome on over absolutely sorry.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
We need to do our goodbye cheers.
I totally forgot she's empty.
That's good, and I'll do alittle bit more in here.
Right right, right.
Okay, here we are.
Thank you so much.
Brandon appreciate it.
Thank you all the links are inthe show notes.
Go there.
Thank you guys.
Thank you, cheers.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
Hey you, now that I have your attention and you've
listened to this wonderfulpodcast that we had to offer,
we'd like you to scroll down.
And what are they going to dowhen they scroll down?
Speaker 1 (56:11):
Ian, scroll down and give us some feedback.
Rate us on your podcastplatform ideally five stars, and
if you would give us somecritical feedback, you can DM us
on Instagram at OfficialBungPod.
Let's hear it, let's go.
(56:31):
It is only two of us writingthe show, two of us producing
the show.
It's me, ian king, jasmineshattuck and the lovely becca
hines as our producers and ourwriters are me, ian king and
(56:52):
jasmine shattuck let's go, let'sgo.
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